The Couch

Romance according to Tomassi, A Field Report

Oddly enough this happened last weekend so it’s still pretty fresh in my head. Friday night I was going to meet up with my partners for a holiday drink promo, but due to a scheduling error we cancelled it. Rather than call my wife to tell her I’d be coming home (which would only make her expectant of me), I waited until I was about 2 blocks from my home to call her on my cell phone. I said to her, “I’m thinking about doing something, if I blow off this thing tonight, I want you wearing that hot, white lingerie I like when we fuck.” (presume the sale) I could tell I’d caught her off guard and I was telling her we were going to have sex later that evening (no asking permisson or “can we please fuck tonight?”). She laughed and said “uh sure,..”, this was right as I pulled into my driveway and I still had her on the phone when I walked in the door and said “OK, here I am.”

Our daughter was at a friend’s place so I made martinis for us and purposely only had a light one for myself. I used C&F on my wife while we chatted on the couch. Now, she’s used to this from me, but because I’d prefaced the evening with giving her the impression that I was taking time away from other things to come home and knock it out with her. She was eating it up and mirroring my advances back to me. I never saw the lingerie that night because we were too busy going at it right on the couch and then moving to the bedroom. I kept up the C&F while we were at it and there was no “let me get cleaned up before we do it” there was no “we better hurry it up so I can be asleep by 10:30” – it was Game On and we had some fantastic sex all because I was setting the frame.

This is how you “keep it fresh.” Understand, this is the same woman I married 16 years ago. There were no roses, there was no ‘date night’, no wine or a candle lit dinner. There were martinis in my home and me setting the frame. And Monday I brought her a few flowers to reinforce a desired behavior.

Primary Focus

There’s a part in American Beauty where it looks like Kevin Spacey’s character is going to actually reconnect with his sexually ambivalent wife (actually she’s cheating on him, but we don’t discover this until later). They’re getting hot and bothered with each other for the first time in a long time on a very nice (and apparently expensive) couch.

This is significant because the guy and his wife are on the verge of divorce due to their lack of a sex life and for the first time in a long time she genuinely responds sexually for her husband, and you think for a moment there’s some hope for them.

As they get more into it his wife becomes fixaed on her husband’s hand holding a beer and almost spilling it on the couch that they’re on. He is totally focused on her, kissing her and not thinking about the beer in his hand. Her eyes are locked on the beer though until he finally notices what is distracting her from him – the beer.

He tries to take her mind off it by focusing more on her, and she becomes even more concerned that he’ll spill beer on the couch while they’re going at it. She says, “Lester you’re going to spill beer on the couch,..” he says, “it’s just a couch,..” she then gets indignant about how expensive it is and then he yells, “IT’S JUST A COUCH!”

Do you see what this gets at? This is the real challenge of marriage. Making desire and passion go beyond the mundane. That is what needs to be kept fresh in the face the routine. Single people in the throes of passion don’t care if a bottle of wine is spilled on the carpet in the process, married people do. Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens. Telling right from wrong is easy, determining right from right is difficult.

This is the perfect illustration of what marriage has become for most women – there is more attention directed toward externalities and little or none devoted to genuine desire. People experiencing genuine desire for one another don’t care about externalities. Nothing else exists to them but the object of their passion (and consummating it); there is no dirty laundry, no stain on a carpet, no neighbors who may hear them fucking, there is only them. Today’s couples don’t have a problem with trust or comfort or logistics, or even respect for the most part – what they have a problem with is desire. Men forget how to create it, women for get how to respond to it.

The New York Times had a recent article detailing the short shelf life of love (particularly in marriage). It’s essentially a fluff piece written by a woman obviously looking for an answer to her failing desire by expressing a similar lament for other women in her position. The irony of this article is that when men consider the biological / psychological reasons for why they want to bang other women, they’re shamed for lacking self-control or personal conviction. Let a woman do the same and it’s a new scientific discovery of self-enlightenment. I also thought the reframe about women actually being the more ‘novelty seeking’ of the sexes only lacquered on yet more irony.

Be that as it may, it’s interesting that the aspect of desire-killing familiarity is finally entering the popular consciousness in our feminine defined world. When you’re single, women love to prattle (mostly to betas and themselves) about how necessary it is for them to feel comfortable with a guy before having sex. Of course Alphas learn the lie of this earlier than most, but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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immoralgables
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“but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament.”

Yup. Never hold much weight in their words, only in the stimulus that they respond to.

sunshinemary
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There were no roses, there was no ‘date night’, no wine or a candle lit dinner. There were martinis in my home and me setting the frame… they have a problem with is desire. Men forget how to create it, women for get how to respond to it.

Yes! No more date nights and marriage therapy; more male frame-control.

[Do you need your ass slapped? C’mere,..]

spicoli
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Ok…what is C&F mean. Nice work.

ASF
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ASF
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C&F = cocky and funny

taterearl
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Heh…I enjoyed Spacey’s talk about the car. Nothing beta about that.

Frame is very important…I learned that in dancing. You have to keep a good frame or the woman will have no idea what you are doing…which makes you a bad lead and an unhappy woman.

Nick
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Hasn’t “desire-killing familiarity” been a mainstay of marriages forever? I suppose the difference is that changes in divorce laws, feminism, female empowerment, etc. have encouraged (mostly) women to axe their marriages when most simply couldn’t do it a few generations ago. I’ve quickly been souring on the thought of marriage primarily because of the desire for novelty and meeting new women vs. inevitable drift to familiarity in a LTR. Besides this it seems like a man with a high SMV wife has to have very tight game to carry the marriage until his wife truly hits the wall and then… Read more »

Jimmy
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…..Of course Alphas learn the lie of this earlier than most, but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament. Maybe it also partly lies in the differences between the sexes. Women are naturally wired in a ways that benefit them – we all know what they are. Articulating any logical interrelated sequence of events that makes them feel a certain way is just not in their realm of thinking or make up (it even turns them off to hear logical talking). If they… Read more »

kolo
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@Nick ‘hasn’t “desire-killing familiarity” been a mainstay of marriages forever?’ i don’t think it has, think of the animal (mammal) kingdom, what kills a relationship is generally a loss of strength from the male or a loss of fertility from the female. getting familiar to the point of marriage doesn’t really imply a loss of strength, so i don’t see the familiarity as a problem unless it exposes weak characteristics of the male that could be more easily hidden with more casual interactions. as women age into their 30’s and 40’s it seems logical that they would have less of… Read more »

Gustavo
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American Beauty put the kibosh on marriage for me.

Rollo Tomassi
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Articulating any logical interrelated sequence of events that makes them feel a certain way is just not in their realm of thinking or make up (it even turns them off to hear logical talking). If they are asked to do so the response is incorrect. In the video, pay attention to how Lester’s character transitions from Game to logic while he’s challenging and then seducing his wife through making her feel a certain way. Then he makes the mistake of making appeals to logic (It’s JUST A COUCH!) and she has the predictable feminine response. As I’ve said many times… Read more »

Senior Beta
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This one hits a little too close to home. Can’t wait for Minter’s take.

Team-Red
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An unfuckable wife because she hit the wall has to be one of the most depressing things I can think of for married men possible.

I can think of a few ex gf’s that were attractive years ago that are now war pigs and all I say to myself is wow did I dodge one! That’s terrible for me to say but my biologic nature is attracted to feminine beauty. Sorry feminists.

Mark Minter
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Here is one of the comments from the article “Missing in this discussion is how exhausted women become after giving birth to children. Women, for the most part, are working. Also, women do the lions share of household chores and child rearing duties. At the same time, families are far apart and the support from mothers, sisters, old friends, and mothers in law, are missing. The mother/wife is on her own. She is perpetually exhausted.” “Sex is just not on the radar in a state of exhaustion. Warm and loving feelings come when the husband expresses sympathy and concern and,… Read more »

me
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me
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calling mark minter

Johnycomelately
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“Why? Because women’s idea of passionate sex depends far more centrally on novelty than does men’s.”

Fifty years ago women were bored of living comfortably and now they’re bored of monogamy.

So I guess its the man’s job to be a novelty monkey so the poor dearies don’t get ‘bored’. Women love drama, heck, if they dont get it in some fashion they end up cutting themselves just to get a fix.

immoralgables
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@MarkMinter. Below may answer your question on love. I got this from 3rdMilleniumMen. 4. Louann Brizendine MD explains the neurological processes of breaking up (buy this book, it’s superb. You can also read portions onGoogle Books): The state of romantic love can be reignited by the threat or fear of losing one’s partner-of being dumped. Being dumped actually heightens the phenomenon of passionate love in the brain circuits of both men and women. That brain region desperately, hungrily seeks the loved one. Withdrawal-as if weaning from a drug-takes over. Moments of feeling as if your very survival is threatened occur,… Read more »

Sexual Marxism
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Gustavo December 4th, 2012 at 4:02 pm American Beauty put the kibosh on marriage for me. – American media is designed to create conflict. If I were you I’d chuck the TV in the garbage and never patronize Hollywood films, though movies like Life of Pi that present other more positive culture are ok. American Ugly is the type of film people in other countries watch and gain really bad impressions of Americans from. Like, “are Americans really that gross/immoral/lost/confused/materialistic/cultureless/nihilistic/etc? I can’t imagine growing up on a steady diet of such media. No wonder more than half the population is… Read more »

Mark Minter
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Anyone that can find any other comments about clinical discussion of the chemistry of love, please flood this comment section with them. Please dispel any sort of romantic hype associated with this feeling. We are not cave men, hunter gatherers that need succumb to any trickery of your brain to cloud your reason and push you into decisions and choices that statistically are not in your best interests over the long run of your life. Why can we not use the statistics, the empirical observations, the studies and new found knowledge and awareness, and map these across the reality of… Read more »

PrettyWise
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I don’t understand game. Is it possible to keep a girl interested in you for longer than a year or so? Because i dont understand how an ugly guy could steal my gf. What the hell am i doing wrong

IrishFarmer
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“Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens.”

This needs to be said more often.

AD
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Sexual Marxism
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Mark Minter, you missed the whole point. It was dealing with pregnant women and moms of new infants and toddlers and their exhaustion. Mental and physical exhaustion will result in loss of libido or an ability to actually engage enthusiastically in sex even if one still wants to, simply due to sheer drain. There is no “rationalizing away” of this. Its just a fact. M.Minter “The New York Times has shown in other articles that the quality of life is far greater for both women and children in the top 20% of incomes, and membership in this group of happier… Read more »

AD
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AD
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and here is another priceless scene from ‘American Beauty’

AD
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and while we are on that subject- here is the “dinner scene” from the same movie.

cynical optimist
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@irish farmer
Were you at the ploughing championships, good spot for gaming heh.. Worth the spin down for me anyway..

Martel
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From Jezebel:

“The so-called “War on Men” isn’t a war on men at all—it’s a war on inequality. Oh, you’re feeling marginalized and underrepresented? Complain to me after you’ve been marginalized and underrepresented for 200 years.”

This is part of what separates the Manoshpere from the “victim” groups (and I hope and believe this will continue). I am me. I will never know how it feels to be “marginalized and underrepresented for 200 years” anymore than this bitch will because

Martel
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(cont., hit the wrong button) WE HAVEN’T BEEN ALIVE FOR 200 FUCKING YEARS!

Masculinity is about individualism.

Sexual Marxism
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The institution of marriage was not created for people to be having sex til the grave. It was created for people with the same values and culture to raise families and grow old together. Don’t expect your husband to be a hunk at 50 or your wife to be a babe forever. Grow old together and enjoy your grandchildren and great-grandchildren, like cultured people worldwide do.

Martel
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“And we can tell that you aren’t really subjugated, because if you were you would be coming to us, the supposed dominant group, for help—just like we’re forced to come to you, groveling, and beg for our reproductive rights, marriage rights, and equal pay for equal work.”

No, we won’t be coming to you for help. We just want you to get the fuck out of our way.

Sexual Marxism
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Sexual Marxism
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“Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens.”

This conflicts with fluffy Manosphere pop culture “wisdom” that says men will cheat regardless of a great wife and family or not, because of the need for “variety”.

taterearl
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Rollo Tomassi
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@Martel, I can see I’m going to have to write a response to this. The SoSuave forum has all but asked me to do so. I wonder if sometimes my friends don’t realize the mountain I see when I consider the totality of the feminine imperative.

I’ll put something together.

muscleman
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You may want to write more on this topic in general, as you have experience in marriage. But passion and initial desire are just that – ephemeral. Passion always dies down and some level of comfort and complacency kicks in. This is normal in a prolonged relationship, there’s no escaping it. ‘Keeping it fresh’ as you say is of course important, and I suspect so is reminder her (and yourself) of how you were crazy about each other when you first met, but that same level of passion just won’t be there. I’m sure you realize that’s the price you… Read more »

Sexual Marxism
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Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.

Martel
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Martel
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This classic is tangentially relevant I suppose: http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-finds-sexism-rampant-in-nature,130/

Mark Minter
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Sexual Marxism. My point is not what makes women nag in marriage. And neither is it whether they are justified or not. My point is that it is a given that they will. Almost no matter what. And one of the key points of Red Pill blogs is that the more you try to make them not nag by giving in to them, the more you kill their desire for you and the more they nag you. If you would have a wife then this is a given in almost every marriage, the men will be nagged. It is so… Read more »

Mark Minter
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Here, I like this joke also. It’s a tiny bit off topic. A man dies and goes to hell. He is met at the entrance by the devil. The devil says, “We shall take a tour of Hell and you may then decide the torment that you will endure for all of eternity.” The first stop is a section with a large sign at the entrance, “Bachelorhood”. On one side, a large group of single women are clustered together, talking, chattering, all carrying long, rigid sticks, much like the handle of a hoe, or a shovel. On the other side… Read more »

Martel
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Sexual Marxism
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“My point is not what makes women nag in marriage. And neither is it whether they are justified or not. My point is that it is a given that they will. Almost no matter what. ” I’ll get to your jokes in a sec but just wanted to address this. In my experience with a lot of women and witnessing relationships and having my own, the women who nag the most about things like, as in the video, stains on couches, socks on floors, messy papers laying about, are the very women who were trained in housekeeping growing up and… Read more »

Sexual Marxism
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Martel, that ad doesn’t surprise me. Subtle incest is very common in the United States and is promoted in American mainstream movies and TV shows. One example is in the clip posted by Rollo above “dinner scene” of American Beauty where the father uses sexually explicit language in front of his teenage daughter.

Americans are an odd lot. They don’t seem to have any boundaries.

nod
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“Coffee break is over.”

I was set up by this joke! I was promised a happy ending, Is it too late to get a refund? Wait, I have to pay extra for eternity? It burrrrrnssssss halp halp halp.

OlioOx
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@Mark Minter I answered your request for information on the biochemical side of love yesterday, but my comment disappeared into the ether for a while before it appeared, so perhaps you didn’t see it: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/12/03/the-men-in-the-garage/#comment-12956 Listening closely to all these lectures and really absorbing them is a substantial time commitment but it’s worth it. What’s going on with the amygdala, the hippocampus, dopamine, etc etc when people are horny or in love or whatever? Get the details in these lectures. And another thing I’m sure will interest you: As we all know, there is a big disconnect between what women… Read more »

Sexual Marxism
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American Beauty’s Annette Benning character may have spoke to the way OLDER women may have been in the 80s and possibly as late as the 90s. Today’s generation of YOUNG women come home from work, kick off their shoes, pour themselves a cuppa and then settle in on their laptops for an evening of blogging.

They don’t give two shits if you spill beer on the couch.

Grit
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You see two sexual imperatives in the video. Lester has rediscovered his own outdated sexual imperative- bad boy behavior- while his wife has discovered hers- rolling in a big office to come into contact with higher status men. Lester trying to “fix” things is interpreted as harm to his wife’s imperative. The day you stop gaming is the day you lose.

Alas, the real beauty in American Beauty would be Lester finding the manosphere, and all the pretty lies are revealed.

E.J.
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E.J.
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That mule joke is gold.

John Galt
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Sexual Marxism – your only contribution to date is to inspire Mark Minter to write more rants after your mangina posts. Do us all a favor and comment over at jezebel

Johnycomelately
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“Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.”

I guess the Dead Sea scrolls and the Essenes were actually smurfs, nothing worse than an ignorant fuck, except an ignorant fuck that is oblivious of his own ignorance.

Chuck Hammer
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Mark Minter I want that the reader would understand exactly that the biology and chemistry at work in his body is as detrimental as a drug addiction and that awareness can allow him stomp it out before it takes control of his reason. This’ll get you started: Is social attachment an addictive disorder? “The literature on the hedonic properties of drugs of abuse has been our major source of information about the neurobiology of reward. Drugs such as cocaine are an easily manipulated stimulus and thus have permitted rigorous dissection of the pathways and the candidate genes involved in reward.… Read more »

YOHAMI
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“I can assure you that were you to date today’s generation of young women, you would notice a severe decline in nagging because, well, they just don’t care.”

Disagree – had my share of nagging girlfriends and they were not into housekeeping. So they nagged about other stuff.

Also witnessed it on almost every girl when she’s with her boyfriend: nagging is how they get stuff done.

taterearl
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“Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.”

You do realize he was telling a joke about how women nag…not getting into a theological debate.

rgoltn
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There is no question that in LTRs, desire-killing familiarity is deadly. I would add that kids are like adding gas on that fire too. The Times articles perpetuates a BS theme with working women that men do nothing and they have to do it all AND maintain their jobs. You see it everywhere in movies, TV shows and commercials. Women like to bemone such things, but the reality is that they possess a deep sense of control; the real killer in a LTR. It does not matter what a guy does if his wife thinks she has to do everything… Read more »

AlphaBeta_Spectrum
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Yikes I remember that scene when I watched the movie, watching it with my then Girlfriend (Now wife) and thinking “well if that’s what I expect after years of marriage I want none of it”!

Luckily 14 years later we still fuck like rabbits and swallowing the red pill has only benefited our relationship more…

ASF
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Running a house in modern America is NOT HARD. The whole woe is me attitude of women, I have to do sooo much, is complete BS.And the standard is inherently the woman’s standard. You can hire a cleaner to come twice a month. If you’re of reasonable means, this is nothing. Laundry? Easy. We have machines. Just don’t wait to do 30 loads in one day. Separate colors from whites before hand. Dishes? We have the dish washer.It takes about 5 minutes to unload. Cooking? You can make simple and healthy recipes during the weekend that can feed you for… Read more »

Alat
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On nagging, nothing beats the classics. From the Brothers Grimm, “The Fisherman and the Wife”: Once upon a time there were a fisherman and his wife who lived together in a filthy shack near the sea. Every day the fisherman went out fishing, and he fished, and he fished. Once he was sitting there fishing and looking into the clear water, and he sat, and he sat. Then his hook went to the bottom, deep down, and when he pulled it out, he had caught a large flounder. Then the flounder said to him, “Listen, fisherman, I beg you to… Read more »

taterearl
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“Running a house in modern America is NOT HARD. The whole woe is me attitude of women, I have to do sooo much, is complete BS.And the standard is inherently the woman’s standard.”

Women have an amazing ability to take the simplest task and make them difficult.

While I don’t live in a huge living space and I’m by myself…I can get all my housework activities done in a couple of hours and be set for the rest of the week.

Mina
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“how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament” – only if you do it wrong. seems like from a lot of my reading most women do it wrong. I have taken my comfort and familiarity with my DH to enable me to discover things about myself that I didn’t even know. to decide that this man is my best possible path to having the best, most fun and dirtiest sex I could ever hope to have. and since we’ve been married just over 10… Read more »

Mina
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and BTW: I don’t nag because I respect my husband and he has a right to live his life in his home the way he chooses. I pick up my shit, my kids pick up their shit and if my DH feels like picking up his shit he does. or doesn’t. we resolve the big issues by having a twice monthly housekeeper who does the big stuff that has to get done (I have a full time engineering job.) I used to nag my husband but stopped when I realized how toxic it was and that the world really didn’t… Read more »

AnonJohn
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paragraphs are your friend!

Mina
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Didn’t intend to write so much, but I agree. Sorry. I am still dynamically thinking through a lot of stuff, probably shouldn’t do it here.

3rd Millenium Men
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@ImmoralGables thanks for the shout out. The full post can be found here:

3rd Millenium Men
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@Mark Minter, the neurological aspects of falling in love, from Dr Louann Brezadine: 3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/20/manosphere-become-a-better

3rd Millenium Men
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3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/best-of-the-manosphere

Sexual Marxism
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” Once a woman in a LTR can let go and allow her man to shoulder the load, she becomes energized, not exhausted.” Agreed. Let him shoulder the load. “Cooking? You can make simple and healthy recipes during the weekend that can feed you for the week. ” No, I can’t. But you, if you’re a man, can “shoulder the load” and do it. Knock yourself outself out, son! Mina, with your “set aside a couple nights a month” – you must be new to the M-sphere. They are dead set against “date night”. Better luck next time, hon. __________________________… Read more »

Team-Red
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It’s funny when reading posts from women how many I’s they use.

Mina
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in my case, it’s because I am sharing an experiece that I am having in hopes anyone might want to try it on for size. the message is in there, I did what I could to avoid attention seeking / approval seeking behavior with obviously only moderate success. sorry. the news is that I personally am finding it is possible to have the kind of life I thought I could and that my man was hoping for when we got married. maybe you can find it too. the message is that it is NOT impossible and you now have at… Read more »

Mina
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They are dead set against “date night” – my interpretation of that is that in the manosphere “date night” consists of a night that women “make” men spend money (taking them to dinner, a show, shopping, etc – something they want to do) in the hope that they will get sex at the end of it. many times the women renig on their part of the bargain. maybe I didn’t understand it all? The different is that the point of our date night IS sex, interspersed with some activity designed to keep us from focusing on the mundane and instead… Read more »

Mina
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The date night I am referring to can be referenced on the Red Pill Room: along the lines of the Italian dinner or Continental ranging upward to the Four Star. My point is that indulging regularly in this particular range seems to be an awesome relationship building tool (my experience, as YMMV.) http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/03/anatomy-of-perfect-red-pill-date-phase.html “From the very beginning of the evening, sex was always on the table. That was the frame I went into the date with: I’m treating you to a lovely evening of excitement, decadence, and attention, which will culminate in a mutually-satisfactory sexual experience involving a far higher… Read more »

xsplat
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When I hear Mark Minters posts, I often think something like this: People take half a pill. They learn that women are not men, and then conclude that women aren’t worth the bother. Instead they could swallow the whole pill, continue their full schooling, and learn how to use women such that they are worth every bit of bother and more. It’s just like dog or horse ownership. Guys are complaining that their mates shit and piss everywhere and are bitches and nags, but they take no responsibility for not having learned the finer arts of animal control. The basis… Read more »

xsplat
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He speaks of…

YOHAMI
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Agreed.

Mina
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“It’s just like dog or horse ownership. Guys are complaining that their mates shit and piss everywhere and are bitches and nags, but they take no responsibility for not having learned the finer arts of animal control. The basis of which is dominance.” We have horses and I agree with you 110% here. I have a trained a lot of horses and I am a woman in the process of my “training” (or learning, whatever you want to call it.) You might have no idea how really close horse training is to wife training but you nailed that completely. Uncanny,… Read more »

Underdog
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Underdog
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agree with xplat and yohami

Underdog
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Underdog
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and mina

Stingray
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Stingray
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xsplat,

Great comment. I always wonder, those girls that would be absolutely mortified at the thought of being trained, if they find a man who is willing to put in the time, do they change their mind about it, put on an act that they are not, in fact, being trained, or just leave the guy straight out? I strongly suspect it is not the third option.

YOHAMI
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YOHAMI
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“if they find a man who is willing to put in the time”

It’s more about finding a guy they want to submit to.

Stingray
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Stingray
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I was assuming they had the luck to find such a man.

Mina
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Mina
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What you have to understand is that for example, every time you interact with a horse you are training it. to submit to you. to respect you. to understand that you are alpha. he moves out of your way when you walk towards him, not the other way around. a man in a alpha frame is doing the same all day long with his wife. little things establish the hierarchy and remind everyone of their place. the lead horse reinforces and establishes with his herd this all day every day 24x7x365. he never gives an inch else respect for his… Read more »

Mina
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Mina
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The dominance behaviors give comfort to everyone as everyone knows their role. Most women would not conciously know they were being dominated. If its done right they shouldn’t know, they should just feel comfortable for the way things are and that things they are as they should be.

Sexual Marxism
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Sexual Marxism
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“which will culminate in a mutually-satisfactory sexual experience involving a far higher level of expectation than “standard fare”. ”

Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession. It requires a very high learning curve and intense level of self control, which comes only after technique mastery.

xsplat
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xsplat
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Stingray, I’ve had all sorts of relationships, and most of my more recent ones have been of the monogamous live in kind. Whether the girl is a live in or not, they tend to naturally take on the geisha role. But sometimes it’s not so easy. My current was an asexual tomboy career girl when I met her. At 21 she was not yet out of college and lived in a fundamental religious dorm, under the strict control and guidance of the house mother. She walked like a man and assumed that all men where put on earth to do… Read more »

Mina
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Mina
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Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession. It requires a very high learning curve and intense level of self control, which comes only after technique mastery. Women don’t expect this every time and matter of fact they should expect to be responsible for setting herself up for success (in whatever way she needs to.) Getting hot and sweaty and spending time huffing and puffing is fun too. Or being teased during a pool game wearing a mini skirt and no underpants. Or dancing provocatively in shoes way higher than you’d… Read more »

Stingray
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Stingray
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I would love to know how her perceived happiness before she met you compares with what it was afterward. Women like me and Mina are often chastised as doormats or brain-dead even. I once thought myself strong and independent. It compared nothing to how I feel now being in a marriage with a dominant man whom I adore caring for. There is no way to express this to women who perceive themselves strong an independent whom no man is worthy of as they don’t need one. It more of an overwhelming warmth, a letting go. It’s far more than I… Read more »

Mark Minter
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So Rollo, You were ahead of the curve, so far ahead that the PostStructural language to defend the Feminine Imperative was in construction. So now we “Looksist”. I assume that to be some derivative of sexist, and in the Jezebel headline, we have “Shallow Looksists”. So you beat Jizbowl to the punch in giving us the verbal ammunition to attack it. The Front Page Jizbowl article was more oblique than direct. It was commenting on an MTV documentary “Catfish” about women and men, mostly women that had an SMV of 3 or 4 being hoodwinked by a very attractive person… Read more »

BA
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BA
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From Sexual Marxism

“Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession.”

No burden. That just happens. And if not, I’ll still get off and sleep like a baby.

Martel
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Martel
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There’s been a LOT of great stuff in this thread, I admit, but I still think the Onion article I previously referenced has been unjustly ignored. A sample: “More seriously, in addition to an unfair division of labor, nature is rife with sexual abuse and harassment. The UCSD study estimates that in 2001 alone, more than 170 trillion cases of abuse occurred in the world’s forests, grasslands, and oceans—all of them unreported. ‘During the act of mating, the female moose is subject to excessive biting, nipping, and herding,’ Tannen said. ‘The male has no qualms about using sheer, brute force… Read more »

Sexual Marxism
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Sexual Marxism
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“And in my opinion 20% of the Colombian Cupid are Scammers.” You don’t say? There was a spammer in the Manosphere “Boycott American Women” who kept posting links to some “Mail Order Indian Bride” site every time he left a comment somewhere. It was all one big entire fake scam. You had to PAY before you could even email the “girls”. Considering that more than 80% of Indian marriages are arranged by parents to prospects who are of the same cultural and religious background as their kids, and PUAs fail miserably there because “its just not that kind of place”… Read more »

AD
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AD
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Mina
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Mina
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actually the only reason I even posted is that the movie featured in this article was most of the impetus for the big changes around here, that specific scene with the couch as a matter of fact. some of what I post I am just thinking through things. it doesn’t matter what you think of it, but I am interested in the feedback. unfortunately not much of it has been useful or has helped moved my understanding forward. I do find your need to belittle me really interesting though. I’ll have to think on that for a while.

OlioOx
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OlioOx
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@ everyone but ESPECIALLY Mark Minter…

You’re interested in the science of attraction and sex and so on? Here is a great introduction to Evolutionary Psychology:

http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/steen/cogweb/ep/EP-primer.html

sosweet2362
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You are EXACTLY right!

AnonJohn
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AnonJohn
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@Mark Minter It is ok man. It really is. You are going to be ok. We appreciate watching you dump your misery onto these boards. But trust us, it will get better. And trust us again, there is a new world out there that you might not even be able to comprehend yet, one where women fill a particular and beautiful role. A role that you define and control. Where you get what you want and feel good about it all. Mastery, Mark, Mastery is what we can offer you if you just listen and observe and go through these… Read more »

John Galt
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John Galt
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Minter isn’t in pain. He is a freed slave spreading the word down back the underground railroad.

Baffled
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Baffled
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Rollo, On the previous post I had posted my confusion about women’s need to fight. I think I have figured it out and wonder what you think. A shit test is a women’s way of seeing if a man is really the way he presents himself. Any guy can act alpha, but a women needs to test for congruence to see if the act meets the reality and holds up. PUAs are experts at appearing congruent by passing the tests. On the other hand, a nice guy is an expert too, an expert at being nice. Just as a PUA… Read more »

Mina
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Mina
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I found this quote online and I agree with it. “Feminism is basically a luxury that can only exist in a world with abundant cheap energy, surplus everything, peace, and democracy. It can’t survive war on it’s land, wide scale civil unrest over a long term, scarcity of energy or other essential resources. Why is there no feminist in Cuba. Why has feminism crept into India only since they have developed western standards of living.” Has anyone in the “manosphere” spent any time analyzing the relationship between this matrix and the much larger global socio-economic matrix enabled by abundant, cheap… Read more »

Thomas Gray
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Thomas Gray
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Baffled, you are correct that shit tests are congruency tests. However, it is also (even more so) testing for alpha qualities. The more alpha you are, the more shit tests you get at the start. Then once she has acknowledged your being alpha, you get them less. Only when she needs to be reaffirmed of your alpha you will get a shit test thrown your way. Nice guys, even though they pass the congruency part of the test, still fail the test because they do not display the desired alpha qualities. That is why women keep testing nice guys, in… Read more »

Mina
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Mina
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Thomas Gray
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Thomas Gray
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Mina, I touched upon those socio-economic luxuries in a comment on this blog not too long ago. Another commenter in the same thread after me posted it a lot more eloquently than I did. Basicly, these are luxuries gifted to us by the height of our living standards. When the world around us turns sour and we can not keep up these living standards, the luxuries will be the first to go. This because we will fall back upon our nature as human beings and since there will be less government protection, the right of the strongest will be one… Read more »

Martel
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Martel
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Mina: Prosperity and security are definite prerequisites for feminism. Few women will cry “I am woman, hear me roar!” when an actual lion may roar back at them. “Empowerment” isn’t quite as fun when it means you have to cut your own firewood (and not for fun on a camping trip, during the winter when you need it to survive). The first seeds (that I know of) of feminism came at the tale end of the Enlightenment after Europe underwent a tremendous transformation of prosperity. (I consider Rousseau to be the Matriarchy’s Patriarch, something I’ll expand on eventually) As the… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
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Mina
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Mina
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I think the historical relationship between feminism and surplus energy and the impact the coming civilization changes will have on gender roles in is worthy of a very detailed analysis. Has anyone explored this that you know of?

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