The Couch

Romance according to Tomassi, A Field Report

Oddly enough this happened last weekend so it’s still pretty fresh in my head. Friday night I was going to meet up with my partners for a holiday drink promo, but due to a scheduling error we cancelled it. Rather than call my wife to tell her I’d be coming home (which would only make her expectant of me), I waited until I was about 2 blocks from my home to call her on my cell phone. I said to her, “I’m thinking about doing something, if I blow off this thing tonight, I want you wearing that hot, white lingerie I like when we fuck.” (presume the sale) I could tell I’d caught her off guard and I was telling her we were going to have sex later that evening (no asking permisson or “can we please fuck tonight?”). She laughed and said “uh sure,..”, this was right as I pulled into my driveway and I still had her on the phone when I walked in the door and said “OK, here I am.”

Our daughter was at a friend’s place so I made martinis for us and purposely only had a light one for myself. I used C&F on my wife while we chatted on the couch. Now, she’s used to this from me, but because I’d prefaced the evening with giving her the impression that I was taking time away from other things to come home and knock it out with her. She was eating it up and mirroring my advances back to me. I never saw the lingerie that night because we were too busy going at it right on the couch and then moving to the bedroom. I kept up the C&F while we were at it and there was no “let me get cleaned up before we do it” there was no “we better hurry it up so I can be asleep by 10:30” – it was Game On and we had some fantastic sex all because I was setting the frame.

This is how you “keep it fresh.” Understand, this is the same woman I married 16 years ago. There were no roses, there was no ‘date night’, no wine or a candle lit dinner. There were martinis in my home and me setting the frame. And Monday I brought her a few flowers to reinforce a desired behavior.

Primary Focus

There’s a part in American Beauty where it looks like Kevin Spacey’s character is going to actually reconnect with his sexually ambivalent wife (actually she’s cheating on him, but we don’t discover this until later). They’re getting hot and bothered with each other for the first time in a long time on a very nice (and apparently expensive) couch.

This is significant because the guy and his wife are on the verge of divorce due to their lack of a sex life and for the first time in a long time she genuinely responds sexually for her husband, and you think for a moment there’s some hope for them.

As they get more into it his wife becomes fixaed on her husband’s hand holding a beer and almost spilling it on the couch that they’re on. He is totally focused on her, kissing her and not thinking about the beer in his hand. Her eyes are locked on the beer though until he finally notices what is distracting her from him – the beer.

He tries to take her mind off it by focusing more on her, and she becomes even more concerned that he’ll spill beer on the couch while they’re going at it. She says, “Lester you’re going to spill beer on the couch,..” he says, “it’s just a couch,..” she then gets indignant about how expensive it is and then he yells, “IT’S JUST A COUCH!”

Do you see what this gets at? This is the real challenge of marriage. Making desire and passion go beyond the mundane. That is what needs to be kept fresh in the face the routine. Single people in the throes of passion don’t care if a bottle of wine is spilled on the carpet in the process, married people do. Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens. Telling right from wrong is easy, determining right from right is difficult.

This is the perfect illustration of what marriage has become for most women – there is more attention directed toward externalities and little or none devoted to genuine desire. People experiencing genuine desire for one another don’t care about externalities. Nothing else exists to them but the object of their passion (and consummating it); there is no dirty laundry, no stain on a carpet, no neighbors who may hear them fucking, there is only them. Today’s couples don’t have a problem with trust or comfort or logistics, or even respect for the most part – what they have a problem with is desire. Men forget how to create it, women for get how to respond to it.

The New York Times had a recent article detailing the short shelf life of love (particularly in marriage). It’s essentially a fluff piece written by a woman obviously looking for an answer to her failing desire by expressing a similar lament for other women in her position. The irony of this article is that when men consider the biological / psychological reasons for why they want to bang other women, they’re shamed for lacking self-control or personal conviction. Let a woman do the same and it’s a new scientific discovery of self-enlightenment. I also thought the reframe about women actually being the more ‘novelty seeking’ of the sexes only lacquered on yet more irony.

Be that as it may, it’s interesting that the aspect of desire-killing familiarity is finally entering the popular consciousness in our feminine defined world. When you’re single, women love to prattle (mostly to betas and themselves) about how necessary it is for them to feel comfortable with a guy before having sex. Of course Alphas learn the lie of this earlier than most, but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament.

118 comments

  1. “but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament.”

    Yup. Never hold much weight in their words, only in the stimulus that they respond to.

  2. There were no roses, there was no ‘date night’, no wine or a candle lit dinner. There were martinis in my home and me setting the frame… they have a problem with is desire. Men forget how to create it, women for get how to respond to it.

    Yes! No more date nights and marriage therapy; more male frame-control.

    [Do you need your ass slapped? C’mere,..]

  3. Heh…I enjoyed Spacey’s talk about the car. Nothing beta about that.

    Frame is very important…I learned that in dancing. You have to keep a good frame or the woman will have no idea what you are doing…which makes you a bad lead and an unhappy woman.

  4. Hasn’t “desire-killing familiarity” been a mainstay of marriages forever? I suppose the difference is that changes in divorce laws, feminism, female empowerment, etc. have encouraged (mostly) women to axe their marriages when most simply couldn’t do it a few generations ago. I’ve quickly been souring on the thought of marriage primarily because of the desire for novelty and meeting new women vs. inevitable drift to familiarity in a LTR. Besides this it seems like a man with a high SMV wife has to have very tight game to carry the marriage until his wife truly hits the wall and then is far less likely to stray (and then you’re stuck with a post-wall wife for 40 years, wtf?)

    I think you’ve mentioned it before Rollo, but what positives do you see in marriage (post sexual revolution) other than providing stability (and this is far from guaranteed) for raising kids? The traditional purpose of marriage to stabilize society by giving Betas access to a woman seems to have had the rug pulled out from under it, especially with the totalitarian, anti-male divorce laws. I suppose I could aim to marry late (mid 40s) ideally to a girl near her SMV peak (mid 20s), though I still see the familiarity problem as inevitable. Perhaps it’s just a matter of maturity and I’ll realize that stability (especially for the progeny I’d like to have) has its merits. I’m almost certain though that I won’t get married in the U.S., nor to an American woman. That particular contract doesn’t appeal to me.

  5. …..Of course Alphas learn the lie of this earlier than most, but how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament.

    Maybe it also partly lies in the differences between the sexes. Women are naturally wired in a ways that benefit them – we all know what they are. Articulating any logical interrelated sequence of events that makes them feel a certain way is just not in their realm of thinking or make up (it even turns them off to hear logical talking). If they are asked to do so the response is incorrect.

    It is more a man’s domain (or more natural to them) to be able to observe, think and through trial and error find the recipe. Game is the concerted conscious effort of adopting all the correct strategies, mindsets etc and/or weeding out all the self defeating ones. The fact that most women can’t even follow their own sequence to ‘success’ underpins game and supports one of the maxims of not believing what a women says about certain things. Not because they are dishonest but they can’t piece together what is laid out before their own eyes (or they don’t even want to).

    It could also be that women refer to some word and men then apply that word in the wrong place.
    If you can’t really tell why you felt a certain way to get to a certain point (women on sex) then if it becomes obvious to you – through familiarity of a chain of actions – it is brought to your attention. If they notice the sequence starting again it kills the feeling because they know where it is going.
    They want to be familiar with a man but they don’t want you to be repetitive in certain actions (sequence to sex, and that same sequence).
    Doing the same thing over and over makes it logical and predictable for them which they hate.

  6. @Nick

    ‘hasn’t “desire-killing familiarity” been a mainstay of marriages forever?’

    i don’t think it has, think of the animal (mammal) kingdom, what kills a relationship is generally a loss of strength from the male or a loss of fertility from the female. getting familiar to the point of marriage doesn’t really imply a loss of strength, so i don’t see the familiarity as a problem unless it exposes weak characteristics of the male that could be more easily hidden with more casual interactions. as women age into their 30’s and 40’s it seems logical that they would have less of an incentive to cheat or walk away considering they will have limited male options (whether they realise that is another matter), but i think the reason marriages fail despite this is chronic weaknesses in the man that prevents the women having respect let alone attraction for her spouse.

  7. Articulating any logical interrelated sequence of events that makes them feel a certain way is just not in their realm of thinking or make up (it even turns them off to hear logical talking). If they are asked to do so the response is incorrect.

    In the video, pay attention to how Lester’s character transitions from Game to logic while he’s challenging and then seducing his wife through making her feel a certain way. Then he makes the mistake of making appeals to logic (It’s JUST A COUCH!) and she has the predictable feminine response.

    As I’ve said many times in the past, it is Men, not women, who are the true romantics.

  8. An unfuckable wife because she hit the wall has to be one of the most depressing things I can think of for married men possible.

    I can think of a few ex gf’s that were attractive years ago that are now war pigs and all I say to myself is wow did I dodge one! That’s terrible for me to say but my biologic nature is attracted to feminine beauty. Sorry feminists.

  9. Here is one of the comments from the article

    “Missing in this discussion is how exhausted women become after giving birth to children. Women, for the most part, are working. Also, women do the lions share of household chores and child rearing duties. At the same time, families are far apart and the support from mothers, sisters, old friends, and mothers in law, are missing. The mother/wife is on her own. She is perpetually exhausted.”

    “Sex is just not on the radar in a state of exhaustion. Warm and loving feelings come when the husband expresses sympathy and concern and, more to the point, shares the burdens of household chores and childcare.”

    “In most households, this does not happen. The husband comes home and allows the wife to to it all. Yes, he may empty the garbage or wash the car. But the daily grind belongs to the woman.”

    “This kills sex and love and leads to anger and resentment on the part of the woman. This article discusses sharing concerts, experiences, variety etc. etc.but makes no mention of sharing the mundane….. except cooking. Try cooking something interesting with infants and toddlers in your life.”

    So there it is. This comment is most illustrative of the mindset of married women.

    And it is the fundamental debate amongst us.

    Is it the chicken or the egg?

    If this women had a more “cooperative” husband would she make this comment? If she had a better beta that listened to the “Dr Phil” advice and did more chores and was a better “employee” then would she truly have more desire towards him? Yes, I did pose the question with cynical wording.

    Or this the lament of the woman who has rationalized a lack of desire for her husband because of the loss of her genuine desire? Has the familiarity of the relationship coupled with him succumbing to the inevitable shit tests that are inherent in modern marriage lead to her lack of desire as much or more than his “lack of cooperation”?

    Or is this evidence that women will never be satisfied?

    He works more. He makes more money probably. He commutes more. His job is more pressure packed. Not always, but statistics how this usually to be the case. The life she has is due to his work. without him, she would not have it.

    The New York Times has shown in other articles that the quality of life is far greater for both women and children in the top 20% of incomes, and membership in this group of happier families has two constants, college degrees and marriage. Meaning “The money earned by men”.

    If she was a single mother, without him, the state of her life would be far worse. She would have the same level of work, with no financial partner. Studies have shown that the contribution men make in babysitting, transportation, household maintenance, and housework does not support the constant level of this lament from women.

    The mode of life, the children, the house, where it is, how big it is, the menu she sets, the housecleaning schedule , the level of what is considered acceptable, are usually her demands. It is my guess that 90% of the chores, tasks, requirements, etc. are products of the lifestyle she chose, the goals she has, and the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) that she imposes on her family and husband.

    Yet, she continues to minimize the importance of his financial contribution, the sacrifice he makes when he gives it to her, and she assumes it as her due. It is his stake for even gaining the privilege of sitting at the table. And she minimizes the effort he must make and the rest necessary for him to have the mindset to be able to perform, and the reward that he deserves for doing it.

    And now that I live without all of this, without the stress and pressure, without the demands of these people, without this “Bosswoman” to constantly harangue me over these tasks, or to ignore me and my contribution because she sees her mission, her work, her needs, her wants as so much more lofty and superior than mine, I see the enormity of the effort of it, the cost of it, and the demands of it.

    And the freedom and contentment when you no longer have to be a part of it.

    So I see it this way. This comment from this woman is inevitable, it is unavoidable. And the only thing that keeps this attitude in check, that in most relationships, the only thing that keeps it from spilling over into marriage breaking conflict, is when the man has an economic pistol the head of the woman. When her hypergamy cannot find an alternative to him that she might justify divorce, then she sits “pat”.

    And in a great number of marriages, she eats him alive, forces him into the garage, consumes his resources and his time and his youth.

    There is statistical farce that I constantly make. I get up in the morning before the sun comes up and I flush the toilet. Therefore the sun comes up because I flushed the toilet.

    I hear a lot of this in football. “Alabama won in the last 48 games when it ran the ball for more than 150 yards so therefore there is an importance to achieve a balance between running and passing.” How about that Alabama was able to run for 150 yard because it was beating the crap out of the other team? That Alabama is bigger and stronger, that its defense overpowered the other offense and gave its offense more tries, less pressure, that the Alabama offensive line was able shove the other defense off the ball. And that 150 yards is not the reason for those wins but a by product of its supremacy.

    My stat that I generally find to be true in football is that the team that scores more points than the other will usually win. Anything else is “using facts as a drunk uses a light post, for support rather than illumination”

    So at the end of the article “New Love: Short shelf life”, the author gives the statistic that AFTER 18 or 20 years, when the kids are gone, then the couple can possibly “rediscover” each other and regain some of the contentment that they had when they were newlyweds.

    So the inference is that it was the kids that imposed the stress, the pressure that led to the loss of happiness, and their absence gives that couple the time to “rediscover each other”.

    How fucking sweet?

    Those “familiarity factors” are still there, so why now, after an enormous amount of time has passed can they find “contentment” and “rediscover” each other? The man certainly isn’t any more attractive. She certainly isn’t any more attractive. Frankly, most women pushing that age group can be quite a sack of shit, so I doubt he becomes more amorous to her because of new found discovery of her beauty. Did he suddenly jump up and start doing chores to her satisfaction?

    How about that bitch stopped being a bitch? How about 20 years passed by and that bitch was so far past the wall that she had better back off that bitch behavior and without the children the divorce settlement might not have been so much in her favor?

    So without any shock to any regular reader of the Rational Male comment section, I propose a different strategy.

    Next those bitches.

    Redefine the priority of the LTR in your life so that it is not the “be all and end all”, the goal, so that it is not your Holy Grail.

    And stay in the higher peaks of that happiness curve more of the time, that when you are in any form of LTR, it stays on “New love” side of that curve, a time that even the New York Times acknowledges when that woman still has Genuine Desire for you and is still laying the trap to sucker you into that provider state.

    Then as a hip and aware reader of Rational Male, you interpret the signals of her loss of Genuine Desire for what they mean, that she has begun to lose her Genuine Desire for you, and not any bullshit New York Times interpretation of the importance of “running the football” (/metaphor) in a relationship.

    And that as a hip and aware of reader of Rational Male that you have no delusions about the results and probable behavior of that woman once she looses that desire for you.

    And you Next that bitch.

    Yesterday, I sent a request to Rollo for some kind of explanation about the chemical mechanics of Love.

    My reason for doing so it is that I want to trivialize that feeling by having it demystified by a clinical analysis. He has likened it to a drug addiction in the past.

    I want that the reader would understand exactly that the biology and chemistry at work in his body is as detrimental as a drug addiction and that awareness can allow him stomp it out before it takes control of his reason.

    I’ve seen many men do stupid things under the control of this addiction.

    Like marry.

  10. “Why? Because women’s idea of passionate sex depends far more centrally on novelty than does men’s.”

    Fifty years ago women were bored of living comfortably and now they’re bored of monogamy.

    So I guess its the man’s job to be a novelty monkey so the poor dearies don’t get ‘bored’. Women love drama, heck, if they dont get it in some fashion they end up cutting themselves just to get a fix.

  11. @MarkMinter. Below may answer your question on love. I got this from 3rdMilleniumMen.

    4. Louann Brizendine MD explains the neurological processes of breaking up (buy this book, it’s superb. You can also read portions onGoogle Books):

    The state of romantic love can be reignited by the threat or fear of losing one’s partner-of being dumped. Being dumped actually heightens the phenomenon of passionate love in the brain circuits of both men and women. That brain region desperately, hungrily seeks the loved one. Withdrawal-as if weaning from a drug-takes over. Moments of feeling as if your very survival is threatened occur, and a state of fearful alert is triggered in the amygdala. The anterior cingulate cortex-the part of the brain that engages in worry and critical judgement-starts to generate negative thoughts about losing the beloved. In this highly motivated, attentive state, obsessive thoughts of reunion take hold. This state elicits not trust and bonding, but painful, intense searched for the beloved. Melissa became crazed with thoughts of losing Rob. The part of herself that had become merged and expanded by his opinions, interest, beliefs, hobbies, mannerisms, and character was now in acute emotional, physical, and cognitive withdrawal, deep within the reward-driven areas of the brain.

    The exhilarating expansion of the self that happened rapidly during the romantic-rush state of love is now in a painful retraction. And when women experience betrayal or loss of love, they also respond differently than men do. When love is lost, abandoned men are three to four times more likely to commit suicide. Women, by contrast, sink into depression. Jilted females can’t eat, sleep, work, or concentrate; cry all the time; withdraw from social activities; and think about suicide.

    (Girls hurt) literally from the loss of love. Until recently, we thought that phrases like ‘hurt feelings’ and ‘broken heart’ were simply poetic. New brain-imaging studied, however, have revealed their accuracy. Rejection, it turns out, actually hurts like physical pain because it triggers the same circuits in the brain. Brain scans of people who have just been jilted by their beloveds also show the chemical shift from the high activity of romantic love to the flat biochemistry of loss and grief. Without love’s surges of dopamine, the depression-despair response descends on the brain like a black cloud.

    It may be that the ‘brain pain’ of lost love evolved as a physical alarm to alert us to the dangers of social separation. Pain captures our attention, disrupts our behaviour, and motivates us to ensure our safety and end our suffering. Given the importance for human survival of finding a mate, reproducing, and gaining food, nuturance, and protection, the pain of loss and rejection is likely hardwired in our brains so we’ll avoid it-or at least move on quickly to another mate, who’ll sweep us off our feet on a new, rapturous dopamine- and oxytocin-intoxicated high.

  12. Gustavo
    December 4th, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    American Beauty put the kibosh on marriage for me.

    American media is designed to create conflict. If I were you I’d chuck the TV in the garbage and never patronize Hollywood films, though movies like Life of Pi that present other more positive culture are ok.

    American Ugly is the type of film people in other countries watch and gain really bad impressions of Americans from. Like, “are Americans really that gross/immoral/lost/confused/materialistic/cultureless/nihilistic/etc?

    I can’t imagine growing up on a steady diet of such media. No wonder more than half the population is on anti-depressants starting from age 3.

  13. Anyone that can find any other comments about clinical discussion of the chemistry of love,

    please flood this comment section with them.

    Please dispel any sort of romantic hype associated with this feeling. We are not cave men, hunter gatherers that need succumb to any trickery of your brain to cloud your reason and push you into decisions and choices that statistically are not in your best interests over the long run of your life.

    Why can we not use the statistics, the empirical observations, the studies and new found knowledge and awareness, and map these across the reality of life today to change how we live without resorting to old and outdated forms of living merely because that was what was done before?

    Let the new “Revelation” that guides us not be a tired and worn out dogma, but rather that of fact and reason.

  14. I don’t understand game. Is it possible to keep a girl interested in you for longer than a year or so? Because i dont understand how an ugly guy could steal my gf. What the hell am i doing wrong

  15. “Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens.”

    This needs to be said more often.

  16. Mark Minter, you missed the whole point. It was dealing with pregnant women and moms of new infants and toddlers and their exhaustion. Mental and physical exhaustion will result in loss of libido or an ability to actually engage enthusiastically in sex even if one still wants to, simply due to sheer drain. There is no “rationalizing away” of this. Its just a fact.

    M.Minter
    “The New York Times has shown in other articles that the quality of life is far greater for both women and children in the top 20% of incomes, and membership in this group of happier families has two constants, college degrees and marriage.”

    *
    AND HIRED DOMESTIC HELP LIKE MAIDS AND COOKS. Makes a huge difference.

    M.Minter
    ” Studies have shown that the contribution men make in babysitting”

    *Parents cannot “babysit” their own kids. Its called “parenting” when the kids are your own and “babysitting” when you are getting paid to watch someone else’s kids.

    M. Minter:
    “The mode of life, the children, the house, where it is, how big it is, the menu she sets, the housecleaning schedule , the level of what is considered acceptable, are usually her demands. It is my guess that 90% of the chores, tasks, requirements, etc. are products of the lifestyle she chose, the goals she has, and the SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) that she imposes on her family and husband.”

    *
    I’ll agree with you here. In fact, the “nags” that men so often complain about are the women who will do one of two things;

    1. Clean up after other people, including their husbands, or
    2. Nag their husbands to clean up after themselves

    The solution is to do neither.

    If dishes go unwashed, clothes go unlaundered, toilets go uncleaned, etc., so what? Eventually when he needs a clean plate, clean clothes and a clean toilet, he’ll do it.

  17. @irish farmer
    Were you at the ploughing championships, good spot for gaming heh.. Worth the spin down for me anyway..

  18. From Jezebel:

    “The so-called “War on Men” isn’t a war on men at all—it’s a war on inequality. Oh, you’re feeling marginalized and underrepresented? Complain to me after you’ve been marginalized and underrepresented for 200 years.”

    This is part of what separates the Manoshpere from the “victim” groups (and I hope and believe this will continue). I am me. I will never know how it feels to be “marginalized and underrepresented for 200 years” anymore than this bitch will because

  19. The institution of marriage was not created for people to be having sex til the grave. It was created for people with the same values and culture to raise families and grow old together. Don’t expect your husband to be a hunk at 50 or your wife to be a babe forever. Grow old together and enjoy your grandchildren and great-grandchildren, like cultured people worldwide do.

  20. “And we can tell that you aren’t really subjugated, because if you were you would be coming to us, the supposed dominant group, for help—just like we’re forced to come to you, groveling, and beg for our reproductive rights, marriage rights, and equal pay for equal work.”

    No, we won’t be coming to you for help. We just want you to get the fuck out of our way.

  21. “Most marriages aren’t destroyed from the outside, but rather the inside. External temptations are easy to resist; it’s when it’s coupled with internal conditions that predispose us to it that it happens.”

    This conflicts with fluffy Manosphere pop culture “wisdom” that says men will cheat regardless of a great wife and family or not, because of the need for “variety”.

  22. @Martel, I can see I’m going to have to write a response to this. The SoSuave forum has all but asked me to do so. I wonder if sometimes my friends don’t realize the mountain I see when I consider the totality of the feminine imperative.

    I’ll put something together.

  23. You may want to write more on this topic in general, as you have experience in marriage. But passion and initial desire are just that – ephemeral. Passion always dies down and some level of comfort and complacency kicks in. This is normal in a prolonged relationship, there’s no escaping it. ‘Keeping it fresh’ as you say is of course important, and I suspect so is reminder her (and yourself) of how you were crazy about each other when you first met, but that same level of passion just won’t be there. I’m sure you realize that’s the price you pay – you get to grow close to a person at the expense of ‘newness’.

  24. Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.

  25. Sexual Marxism.

    My point is not what makes women nag in marriage. And neither is it whether they are justified or not.

    My point is that it is a given that they will. Almost no matter what. And one of the key points of Red Pill blogs is that the more you try to make them not nag by giving in to them, the more you kill their desire for you and the more they nag you. If you would have a wife then this is a given in almost every marriage, the men will be nagged. It is so common across all cultures that it is brunt of multiple jokes.

    Here, here is typical joke.

    An attorney arrived home late, after a very tough day trying to get a
    Stay of execution. His last minute plea for clemency to the governor had failed and he was feeling worn out and depressed.

    As soon as he walked through the door at home, his wife started on him about, ‘What time of night to be getting home is this? Where have you been? Dinner is cold and I’m not reheating it’. And on and on and on.

    Too shattered to play his usual role in this familiar ritual, he poured
    himself a shot of whiskey and headed off for a long hot soak in the
    bathtub, pursued by the predictable sarcastic remarks as he dragged
    himself up the stairs.

    While he was in the bath, the phone rang. The wife answered and was told that her husband’s client, James Wright, had been granted a stay of execution after all. Wright would not be hanged tonight.

    Finally realizing what a terrible day he must have had, she decided to go upstairs and give him the good news.

    As she opened the bathroom door, she was greeted by the sight of her
    Husband, bent over naked, drying his legs and feet.

    ‘They’re not hanging Wright tonight,’ she said.

    He whirled around and screamed,

    ‘FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOMAN, DON’T YOU EVER STOP?!’
    ———-
    and another

    Farmer Jake had a nagging wife who made his life miserable. The only real peace that he got was when he was out in the field plowing. So he plowed a lot.

    One day when he was out in the field, Jake’s wife brought his lunch to him. Then she stayed while he quietly ate and berated him with a constant stream of nagging and complaining. Suddenly, Jake’s old mule kicked up his back legs, striking the wife in the head, and killing her instantly.

    At the wake, Jake’s minister noticed that when the women offered sympathy to Jake he would nod his head up and down. But when the men came up and spoke quietly to him, he would shake his head from side to side.

    When the wake was over and all the mourners had left, the minister approached Jake and asked, “Why was it that you nodded your head up and down to all the women and shook your head from side to side to all the men?”

    “Well,” Jake replied, “The women all said how nice she looked, and her dress was so pretty, so I agreed by nodding my head up and down.

    The men all asked, “Is that mule for sale!?”
    ——————–
    See, comedy works because of the shared experience. People “get” the joke because they understand it from personal experience.

    So there is one solution for a nagging wife similar to the following.

    BMW cars have a series of lights on the instrument panel that go from green to yellow to red over time to signify that you need to bring your BMW to the dealer and pay for an inspection and to get these lights turned back to green. I call these Nag Lights.

    So the solution this avoid these expensive trips to the BMW dealer?

    Buy a Ford.

  26. Here, I like this joke also. It’s a tiny bit off topic.

    A man dies and goes to hell. He is met at the entrance by the devil.

    The devil says, “We shall take a tour of Hell and you may then decide the torment that you will endure for all of eternity.”

    The first stop is a section with a large sign at the entrance, “Bachelorhood”. On one side, a large group of single women are clustered together, talking, chattering, all carrying long, rigid sticks, much like the handle of a hoe, or a shovel. On the other side were cells. In each cell was a man, alone, standing on his head in a meager cell, sparsely furnished, watching football. The floor was covered with long stem roses with thorns. And while the rose petals provided some cushioning for the men as they stood on their heads, the thorns would gouge them. From time to time, and with apparent random, one of the women would leave the group of women, enter the cell and give the man a few, sharp blows with the stick and then leave. And not all of the men would receive this treatment, only the more attractive ones. The lesser attractive men were left in solitude, alone and lonely, but they received no beatings.

    The second stop was a section with a large sign at the entrance, “Divorce”. Again, as in the section, “Bachelorhood’, the women were on one side and the men were in cells, standing on their heads watching football. But in “Divorce”, the floor was covered with burning hot coals which constantly, painfully, tormented the men as they stood on their heads. The side of this section where the women were congregated also had children. The men were not permitted to see the children. and the women would, with more regularity than in “Bachelorhood”, enter the cells of the men, each woman would always enter the same cell, and she would beat the man with the stick with far more intensity and violence, and for a far longer period of time than in “Bachelorhood”, inflicting much more torment.

    The third, and last stop on the tour, had large sign over the entrance “Marriage”. Different than the other two sections, this section was all cells, each cell was furnished far nicer than those cells in either “Bachelorhood” or “Divorce”, with a nice sofa and a far bigger, better television. Inside each cell, the men were not alone but were with a woman, the same woman, all of the time, for all eternity. The men were not standing on their heads. They were sitting with the woman on the sofa, watching “Dances with Stars”, drinking coffee, while the women nagged the man unmercifully. On the floor of each cell was a foot deep of liquid shit. But as opposed to the torment that the other men in “Bachelorhood” and “Divorce” received from the thorns and the burning coals, this shit only appeared to be an annoyance as it was mostly at their feet and ankles. The stick that the other women used to beat the men in “Bachelorhood” and “Divorce” was placed in a rack on the wall of the cell..

    The man tells the devil, “I pick this section. The shit stinks, and even though the women are bitchy and nag all the time, at least they aren’t alone. And while I hate Dancing with Stars, the sticks are in the racks and it appears to have far less torment than the other sections.”

    So the man is placed in a cell with a woman, the same woman for all eternity, where he sits on the sofa, and is given a cup of coffee as she begins to nag him.

    After the devil leaves and the man had a few sips of coffee, a preacher comes into the section and shouts “I now pronounce you Man and Wife.” All of the women got up from the sofa and took the sticks out of the racks and shouted at the men,

    “Coffee break is over. Get back on your heads.”

  27. “My point is not what makes women nag in marriage. And neither is it whether they are justified or not.

    My point is that it is a given that they will. Almost no matter what. ”

    I’ll get to your jokes in a sec but just wanted to address this. In my experience with a lot of women and witnessing relationships and having my own, the women who nag the most about things like, as in the video, stains on couches, socks on floors, messy papers laying about, are the very women who were trained in housekeeping growing up and who actually do housekeeping. Nowadays that demographic is skewed toward older women as young women have grown up surfing the web and care more about writing blogs or commenting on them than they do about that sort of stuff.

    You said that you’re almost 60, right? I can assure you that were you to date today’s generation of young women, you would notice a severe decline in nagging because, well, they just don’t care.

    The nags are a dying breed my friend. Women of today are so plugged into the latest electronic gadgets that they won’t even notice a stain on the couch or dirty laundry on the bathroom floor.

  28. Martel, that ad doesn’t surprise me. Subtle incest is very common in the United States and is promoted in American mainstream movies and TV shows. One example is in the clip posted by Rollo above “dinner scene” of American Beauty where the father uses sexually explicit language in front of his teenage daughter.

    Americans are an odd lot. They don’t seem to have any boundaries.

  29. “Coffee break is over.”

    I was set up by this joke! I was promised a happy ending, Is it too late to get a refund? Wait, I have to pay extra for eternity? It burrrrrnssssss halp halp halp.

  30. @Mark Minter

    I answered your request for information on the biochemical side of love yesterday, but my comment disappeared into the ether for a while before it appeared, so perhaps you didn’t see it:

    https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/12/03/the-men-in-the-garage/#comment-12956

    Listening closely to all these lectures and really absorbing them is a substantial time commitment but it’s worth it. What’s going on with the amygdala, the hippocampus, dopamine, etc etc when people are horny or in love or whatever? Get the details in these lectures.

    And another thing I’m sure will interest you: As we all know, there is a big disconnect between what women CLAIM turns them on, and what ACTUALLY turns them on. Recently a scientist actually demonstrated this in laboratory conditions:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?pagewanted=all

    @Rollo and everyone

    A question: Is there any reliable data on sexual satisfaction in marriages which last many many years? I’m sure I can google and find various things, but I wonder if any of you have found reports that seem really trustworthy.

    What I’m curious to know is: Of those marriages which last until old age and death, what percent have a good sex life? I’m suspicious of mere surveys because people will often lie, or kid themselves, as we all know.

  31. American Beauty’s Annette Benning character may have spoke to the way OLDER women may have been in the 80s and possibly as late as the 90s. Today’s generation of YOUNG women come home from work, kick off their shoes, pour themselves a cuppa and then settle in on their laptops for an evening of blogging.

    They don’t give two shits if you spill beer on the couch.

  32. You see two sexual imperatives in the video. Lester has rediscovered his own outdated sexual imperative- bad boy behavior- while his wife has discovered hers- rolling in a big office to come into contact with higher status men. Lester trying to “fix” things is interpreted as harm to his wife’s imperative. The day you stop gaming is the day you lose.

    Alas, the real beauty in American Beauty would be Lester finding the manosphere, and all the pretty lies are revealed.

  33. Sexual Marxism – your only contribution to date is to inspire Mark Minter to write more rants after your mangina posts. Do us all a favor and comment over at jezebel

  34. “Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.”

    I guess the Dead Sea scrolls and the Essenes were actually smurfs, nothing worse than an ignorant fuck, except an ignorant fuck that is oblivious of his own ignorance.

  35. Mark Minter
    I want that the reader would understand exactly that the biology and chemistry at work in his body is as detrimental as a drug addiction and that awareness can allow him stomp it out before it takes control of his reason.

    This’ll get you started: Is social attachment an addictive disorder?

    “The literature on the hedonic properties of drugs of abuse has been our major source of information about the neurobiology of reward. Drugs such as cocaine are an easily manipulated stimulus and thus have permitted rigorous dissection of the pathways and the candidate genes involved in reward. It seems likely that these pathways and genes evolved not for drug abuse but for mediating the motivational aspects of social interaction, including pair bonding…..”

    I’m with you 100% on this. It pisses me off that I’m betrayed by my own biology, that I’m designed (evolved) to put my own interests second to those of others who have no such altruism. Let’s get this out there so young men understand they’re being played for suckers by their own genes.

  36. “I can assure you that were you to date today’s generation of young women, you would notice a severe decline in nagging because, well, they just don’t care.”

    Disagree – had my share of nagging girlfriends and they were not into housekeeping. So they nagged about other stuff.

    Also witnessed it on almost every girl when she’s with her boyfriend: nagging is how they get stuff done.

  37. “Of course Jesus, if he existed, had a wife. All Jewish boys at the time were married by 16. Judaism forbids monastic orders and marriage is a core tenant of their covenant.”

    You do realize he was telling a joke about how women nag…not getting into a theological debate.

  38. There is no question that in LTRs, desire-killing familiarity is deadly. I would add that kids are like adding gas on that fire too. The Times articles perpetuates a BS theme with working women that men do nothing and they have to do it all AND maintain their jobs. You see it everywhere in movies, TV shows and commercials. Women like to bemone such things, but the reality is that they possess a deep sense of control; the real killer in a LTR. It does not matter what a guy does if his wife thinks she has to do everything herself.

    With kids, a woman can focus all of her time and energy into her job, the house and her kids. When my daughter was young and my wife went out of town for a few days, I managed everything, which was a f*cking breeze. She came back expecting to “clean up the world” and was disapointed…why? Because, she was wrapped up in identifying herself as someone who has to “do it all.” Over time, she learned to not worry and relax and our relationship grew stronger. Once a woman in a LTR can let go and allow her man to shoulder the load, she becomes energized, not exhausted.

    Women are unhappy because they cannot control everything in their lives and that is why rules, govt., security, no-risk, predictability etc. feel good to them….until the other aspects of biology kick in and they need to f*ck an Alpha. Lester’s “who gives a sh*t about the couch” attitude clashes with his wife’s need to control.

  39. Yikes I remember that scene when I watched the movie, watching it with my then Girlfriend (Now wife) and thinking “well if that’s what I expect after years of marriage I want none of it”!

    Luckily 14 years later we still fuck like rabbits and swallowing the red pill has only benefited our relationship more…

  40. Running a house in modern America is NOT HARD. The whole woe is me attitude of women, I have to do sooo much, is complete BS.And the standard is inherently the woman’s standard.

    You can hire a cleaner to come twice a month. If you’re of reasonable means, this is nothing.

    Laundry? Easy. We have machines. Just don’t wait to do 30 loads in one day. Separate colors from whites before hand.

    Dishes? We have the dish washer.It takes about 5 minutes to unload.

    Cooking? You can make simple and healthy recipes during the weekend that can feed you for the week. Go out one night.

    If you have hard surface floors, like wood, tile, or laminate that looks like one of those surfaces, you don’t even need to clean that often.

    What else to bitch about? Kids activities? Don’t sign them up for so many damned things. Pick JUST ONE and that’s enough. Kids need unstructured play.

    Aside from entertaining young children, which can be hard, everything else is EASY. Women love to make it seem like its all so hard because if people realized that it wasn’t, a core part of their victim identity complex would be swept away and then what do you have? It’s all part of the “feminine mystique” BS. But there is no mystique. It’s either unneccessary make-work, or it’s easy, or both.

  41. On nagging, nothing beats the classics. From the Brothers Grimm, “The Fisherman and the Wife”:

    Once upon a time there were a fisherman and his wife who lived together in a filthy shack near the sea. Every day the fisherman went out fishing, and he fished, and he fished. Once he was sitting there fishing and looking into the clear water, and he sat, and he sat. Then his hook went to the bottom, deep down, and when he pulled it out, he had caught a large flounder.

    Then the flounder said to him, “Listen, fisherman, I beg you to let me live. I am not an ordinary flounder, but an enchanted prince. How will it help you to kill me? I would not taste good to you. Put me back into the water, and let me swim.”

    “Well,” said the man, “there’s no need to say more. I can certainly let a fish swim away who knows how to talk.”

    With that he put it back into the clear water, and the flounder disappeared to the bottom, leaving a long trail of blood behind him.

    Then the fisherman got up and went home to his wife in the filthy shack.

    “Husband,” said the woman, “didn’t you catch anything today?”

    “No,” said the man. “I caught a flounder, but he told me that he was an enchanted prince, so I let him swim away.”

    “Didn’t you ask for anything first?” said the woman.

    “No,” said the man. “What should I have asked for?”

    “Oh,” said the woman. “It is terrible living in this shack. It stinks and is filthy. You should have asked for a little cottage for us. Go back and call him. Tell him that we want to have a little cottage. He will surely give it to us.”

    “Oh,” said the man. “Why should I go back there?”

    “Look,” said the woman, “you did catch him, and then you let him swim away. He will surely do this for us. Go right now.”

    The man did not want to go, but neither did he want to oppose his wife, so he went back to the sea.

    When he arrived there it was no longer clear, but yellow and green. He stood there and said:

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    The flounder swam up and said, “What does she want then?”
    “Oh,” said the man, “I did catch you, and now my wife says that I really should have asked for something. She doesn’t want to live in a filthy shack any longer. She would like to have a cottage.”

    “Go home,” said the flounder. “She already has it.”

    The man went home, and his wife was standing in the door of a cottage, and she said to him, “Come in. See, now isn’t this much better?”

    There was a little front yard, and a beautiful little parlor, and a bedroom where their bed was standing, and a kitchen, and a dining room. Everything was beautifully furnished and supplied with tin and brass utensils, just as it should be. And outside there was a little yard with chickens and ducks and a garden with vegetables and fruit.

    “Look,” said the woman. “Isn’t this nice?”

    “Yes,” said the man. “This is quite enough. We can live here very well.”

    “We will think about that,” said the woman.

    Then they ate something and went to bed.

    Everything went well for a week or two, and then the woman said, “Listen, husband. This cottage is too small. The yard and the garden are too little. The flounder could have given us a larger house. I would like to live in a large stone palace. Go back to the flounder and tell him to give us a palace.”

    “Oh, wife,” said the man, “the cottage is good enough. Why would we want to live in a palace?”

    “I know why,” said the woman. “Now you just go. The flounder can do that.”

    “Now, wife, the flounder has just given us the cottage. I don’t want to go back so soon. It may make the flounder angry.”

    “Just go,” said the woman. “He can do it, and he won’t mind doing it. Just go.”

    The man’s heart was heavy, and he did not want to go. He said to himself, “This is not right,” but he went anyway.

    When he arrived at the sea the water was purple and dark blue and gray and dense, and no longer green and yellow. He stood there and said:

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    “What does she want then?” said the flounder.
    “Oh,” said the man sadly, “my wife wants to live in a stone palace.”

    “Go home. She’s already standing before the door,” said the flounder.

    Then the man went his way, thinking he was going home, but when he arrived, standing there was a large stone palace. His wife was standing on the stairway, about to enter.

    Taking him by the hand, she said, “Come inside.”

    He went inside with her. Inside the palace there was a large front hallway with a marble floor. Numerous servants opened up the large doors for them. The walls were all white and covered with beautiful tapestry. In the rooms there were chairs and tables of pure gold. Crystal chandeliers hung from the ceilings. The rooms and chambers all had carpets. Food and the very best wine overloaded the tables until they almost collapsed. Outside the house there was a large courtyard with the very best carriages and stalls for horses and cows. Furthermore there was a magnificent garden with the most beautiful flowers and fine fruit trees and a pleasure forest a good half mile long, with elk and deer and hares and everything that anyone could possibly want.

    “Now,” said the woman, “isn’t this nice?”

    “Oh, yes” said the man. “This is quite enough. We can live in this beautiful palace and be satisfied.”

    “We’ll think about it,” said the woman. “Let’s sleep on it.” And with that they went to bed.

    The next morning the woman woke up first. It was just daylight, and from her bed she could see the magnificent landscape before her. Her husband was just starting to stir when she poked him in the side with her elbow and said, “Husband, get up and look out the window. Look, couldn’t we be king over all this land?”

    “Oh, wife,” said the man, “why would we want to be king? I don’t want to be king.”

    “Well,” said the woman, “even if you don’t want to be king, I want to be king.”

    “Oh, wife,” said the man, “why do you want to be king? I don’t want to tell him that.”

    “Why not?” said the woman, “Go there immediately. I must be king.”

    So the man, saddened because his wife wanted to be king, went back.

    “This is not right, not right at all,” thought the man. He did not want to go, but he went anyway.

    When he arrived at the sea it was dark gray, and the water heaved up from below and had a foul smell. He stood there and said:

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    “What does she want then,” said the flounder.
    “Oh,” said the man, “she wants to be king.”

    “Go home. She is already king,” said the flounder.

    Then the man went home, and when he arrived there, the palace had become much larger, with a tall tower and magnificent decorations. Sentries stood outside the door, and there were so many soldiers, and drums, and trumpets. When he went inside everything was of pure marble and gold with velvet covers and large golden tassels. Then the doors to the great hall opened up, and there was the entire court. His wife was sitting on a high throne of gold and diamonds. She was wearing a large golden crown, and in her hand was a scepter of pure gold and precious stones. On either side of her there stood a line of maids-in-waiting, each one a head shorter than the other.

    “Oh, wife, are you now king?”

    “Yes,” she said, “now I am king.”

    He stood and looked at her, and after thus looking at her for a while he said, “Wife, it is very nice that you are king. Now we don’t have to wish for anything else.”

    “No, husband,” she said, becoming restless. “Time is on my hands. I cannot stand it any longer. Go to the flounder. I am king, but now I must become emperor.”

    “Oh, wife” said the man, “Why do you want to become emperor?”

    “Husband,” she said, “go to the flounder. I want to be emperor.”

    “Oh, wife,” said the man, “he cannot make you emperor. I cannot tell the flounder to do that. There is only one emperor in the realm. The flounder cannot make you emperor. He cannot do that.”

    “What!” said the woman. “I am king, and you are my husband. Are you going? Go there immediately. If he can make me king then he can make me emperor. I want to be and have to be emperor. Go there immediately.”

    So he had to go. As he went on his way the frightened man thought to himself, “This is not going to end well. To ask to be emperor is shameful. The flounder is going to get tired of this.”

    With that he arrived at the sea. The water was all black and dense and boiling up from within. A strong wind blew over him that curdled the water. He stood there and said:

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    “What does she want then?” said the flounder.
    “Oh, flounder,” he said, “my wife wants to become emperor.”

    “Go home,” said the flounder. “She is already emperor.”

    Then the man went home, and when he arrived there, the entire palace was made of polished marble with alabaster statues and golden decoration. Soldiers were marching outside the gate, blowing trumpets and beating tympani and drums. Inside the house, barons and counts and dukes were walking around like servants. They opened the doors for him, which were made of pure gold. He went inside where his wife was sitting on a throne made of one piece of gold a good two miles high, and she was wearing a large golden crown that was three yards high, all set with diamonds and carbuncles. In the one hand she had a scepter, and in the other the imperial orb. Bodyguards were standing in two rows at her sides: each one smaller than the other, beginning with the largest giant and ending with the littlest dwarf, who was no larger than my little finger. Many princes and dukes were standing in front of her.

    The man went and stood among them and said, “Wife, are you emperor now?”

    “Yes,” she said, “I am emperor.”

    He stood and looked at her, and after thus looking at her for a while, he said, “Wife, it is very nice that you are emperor.”

    “Husband,” she said. “Why are you standing there? Now that I am emperor, and I want to become pope.”

    “Oh, wife!” said the man. “What do you not want? There is only one pope in all Christendom. He cannot make you pope.”

    “Husband,” she said, “I want to become pope. Go there immediately. I must become pope this very day.”

    “No, wife,” he said, “I cannot tell him that. It will come to no good. That is too much. The flounder cannot make you pope.”

    “Husband, what nonsense!” said the woman. “If he can make me emperor, then he can make me pope as well. Go there immediately. I am emperor, and you are my husband. Are you going?”

    Then the frightened man went. He felt sick all over, and his knees and legs were shaking, and the wind was blowing over the land, and clouds flew by as the darkness of evening fell. Leaves blew from the trees, and the water roared and boiled as it crashed onto the shore. In the distance he could see ships, shooting distress signals as they tossed and turned on the waves. There was a little blue in the middle of the sky, but on all sides it had turned red, as in a terrible lightning storm. Full of despair he stood there and said:

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    “What does she want then?” said the flounder.
    “Oh,” said the man, “she wants to become pope.”

    “Go home,” said the flounder. “She is already pope.”

    Then he went home, and when he arrived there, there was a large church surrounded by nothing but palaces. He forced his way through the crowd. Inside everything was illuminated with thousands and thousands of lights, and his wife was clothed in pure gold and sitting on a much higher throne. She was wearing three large golden crowns. She was surrounded with church-like splendor, and at her sides there were two banks of candles. The largest was as thick and as tall as the largest tower, down to the smallest kitchen candle. And all the emperors and kings were kneeling before her kissing her slipper.

    “Wife,” said the man, giving her a good look, “are you pope now?”

    “Yes,” she said, “I am pope.”

    Then he stood there looking at her, and it was as if he were looking into the bright sun. After he had looked at her for a while he said, “Wife, It is good that you are pope!”

    She stood there as stiff as a tree, neither stirring nor moving.

    Then he said, “Wife, be satisfied now that you are pope. There is nothing else that you can become.”

    “I have to think about that,” said the woman.

    Then they both went to bed, but she was not satisfied. Her desires would not let her sleep. She kept thinking what she wanted to become next.

    The man slept well and soundly, for he had run about a lot during the day, but the woman could not sleep at all, but tossed and turned from one side to the other all night long, always thinking about what she could become, but she could not think of anything.

    Then the sun was about to rise, and when she saw the early light of dawn she sat up in bed and watched through the window as the sun came up.

    “Aha,” she thought. “Could not I cause the sun and the moon to rise?”

    “Husband,” she said, poking him in the ribs with her elbow, “wake up and go back to the flounder. I want to become like God.”

    The man, who was still mostly asleep, was so startled that he fell out of bed. He thought that he had misunderstood her, so, rubbing his eyes, he said, “Wife, what did you say?”

    “Husband,” she said, “I cannot stand it when I see the sun and the moon rising, and I cannot cause them to do so. I will not have a single hour of peace until I myself can cause them to rise.”

    She looked at him so gruesomely that he shuddered.

    “Go there immediately. I want to become like God.”

    “Oh, wife,” said the man, falling on his knees before her, “the flounder cannot do that. He can make you emperor and pope, but I beg you, be satisfied and remain pope.”

    Anger fell over her. Her hair flew wildly about her head. Tearing open her bodice she kicked him with her foot and shouted, “I cannot stand it! I cannot stand it any longer! Go there immediately!”

    He put on his trousers and ran off like a madman.

    Outside such a storm was raging that he could hardly stand on his feet. Houses and trees were blowing over. The mountains were shaking, and boulders were rolling from the cliffs into the sea. The sky was as black as pitch. There was thunder and lightning. In the sea there were great black waves as high as church towers and mountains, all capped with crowns of white foam.

    Mandje! Mandje! Timpe Te!
    Flounder, flounder, in the sea!
    My wife, my wife Ilsebill,
    Wants not, wants not, what I will
    “What does she want then?” said the flounder.
    “Oh,” he said, “she wants to become like God.”

    “Go home. She is sitting in her filthy shack again.”

    And they are sitting there even today.

  42. “Running a house in modern America is NOT HARD. The whole woe is me attitude of women, I have to do sooo much, is complete BS.And the standard is inherently the woman’s standard.”

    Women have an amazing ability to take the simplest task and make them difficult.

    While I don’t live in a huge living space and I’m by myself…I can get all my housework activities done in a couple of hours and be set for the rest of the week.

  43. “how telling it is then when the same comfort and familiarity that single women cry for is the marriage-killing factor that married women lament” – only if you do it wrong. seems like from a lot of my reading most women do it wrong. I have taken my comfort and familiarity with my DH to enable me to discover things about myself that I didn’t even know. to decide that this man is my best possible path to having the best, most fun and dirtiest sex I could ever hope to have. and since we’ve been married just over 10 years this is the time to get started!! you have to wonder why women don’t look to their husbands for this but instead seem to believe its either 1. Dead in her or 2. Look for it outside her relationship (re-gaining that “new” feeling I guess.) Every day is life is just that: every day. But you have to remember back when “going out” was special and took you outside yourself and left you to just have fun and not think about today or tomorrow or your shitty boss who gives you all of the crap projects. So take that “going out” feeling and just segment off a night at home to do it. Get rid of the kids, pinky swear to each other than after such and such a time (6pm) you won’t talk about anything familiar or mundane, or every day life. You’ll be “out” and checked into “fun time” for just the two of you to enjoy some activity and sprinkle in as much and as nasty the sex as you can mix into it. We don’t spend any money, we don’t go anywhere, we just set our minds to this time is our fun time and we let it loose from there! Just this one little thing has changed my relationship with my DH so dramatically. How I think about him, how I think about me, the kind of things I look forward to and consider “fun”. We have been doing this monthly for about the last year and a half and lately did add some real “going out” into the mix: Concerts he wanted to see, parties he wanted to go to, trips into the city he wanted to make … but he ALWAYS gets to pick the activity (except the one time when I tied him up and had my way with him for several hours.) I am just “his date” for the evening … I wear the clothes he wants to see me in, I talk little, dance a lot, focus completely on him and I am agreeable, respectful, pleasant, and WILLING 😉 and he is 100% the man. I think I would consider it the embodiment of the “red pill” or “game” because it’s a real-life enactment of the principles. We both take our roles very seriously and boy does it make the sex HOT. But what’s interesting is how it bleeds over now into our every day lives in a very real way. I can’t recommend this setting aside of a couple of evenings a month to just be yourselves and forget about the every day mundane bullshit of life. For such a seemingly simple thing, It has been life-changing. Our next night is this coming Saturday and I have been planning for it already for several days (setting up digital photo viewing on the HDTV for a slide show while we listen to music and shoot pool, picking out outfits, planning my weeks worth of workouts to peak on Saturday, what to cook for an early dinner to power the evening, etc.)

  44. and BTW: I don’t nag because I respect my husband and he has a right to live his life in his home the way he chooses. I pick up my shit, my kids pick up their shit and if my DH feels like picking up his shit he does. or doesn’t. we resolve the big issues by having a twice monthly housekeeper who does the big stuff that has to get done (I have a full time engineering job.) I used to nag my husband but stopped when I realized how toxic it was and that the world really didn’t stop if his dirty clothes were left in a giant pile in the laundry room for months at a time. we have better things to do, like actually have a nice conversation after work and a glass of wine or watch Monday night football.

  45. Didn’t intend to write so much, but I agree. Sorry. I am still dynamically thinking through a lot of stuff, probably shouldn’t do it here.

  46. ” Once a woman in a LTR can let go and allow her man to shoulder the load, she becomes energized, not exhausted.”

    Agreed. Let him shoulder the load.

    “Cooking? You can make simple and healthy recipes during the weekend that can feed you for the week. ”

    No, I can’t. But you, if you’re a man, can “shoulder the load” and do it. Knock yourself outself out, son!

    Mina, with your “set aside a couple nights a month” – you must be new to the M-sphere. They are dead set against “date night”.

    Better luck next time, hon.
    __________________________

    SEXUAL MARXISM: the belief that Obama owes me a girlfriend.

    From each according to her ability, to each according to his need.

  47. in my case, it’s because I am sharing an experiece that I am having in hopes anyone might want to try it on for size. 🙂 the message is in there, I did what I could to avoid attention seeking / approval seeking behavior with obviously only moderate success. sorry.

    the news is that I personally am finding it is possible to have the kind of life I thought I could and that my man was hoping for when we got married. maybe you can find it too. the message is that it is NOT impossible and you now have at least one example.

  48. They are dead set against “date night” – my interpretation of that is that in the manosphere “date night” consists of a night that women “make” men spend money (taking them to dinner, a show, shopping, etc – something they want to do) in the hope that they will get sex at the end of it. many times the women renig on their part of the bargain. maybe I didn’t understand it all?

    The different is that the point of our date night IS sex, interspersed with some activity designed to keep us from focusing on the mundane and instead on just having a good time “in the moment”.

    If it’s working and we’re having more and better sex than we ever had AND our relationship is better, more fun and stronger than ever, why is it not a good thing?

  49. The date night I am referring to can be referenced on the Red Pill Room: along the lines of the Italian dinner or Continental ranging upward to the Four Star.

    My point is that indulging regularly in this particular range seems to be an awesome relationship building tool (my experience, as YMMV.)

    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/03/anatomy-of-perfect-red-pill-date-phase.html

    “From the very beginning of the evening, sex was always on the table. That was the frame I went into the date with: I’m treating you to a lovely evening of excitement, decadence, and attention, which will culminate in a mutually-satisfactory sexual experience involving a far higher level of expectation than “standard fare”. There was no doubt in my mind — nor in hers, thanks to my quiet determination — that sex was part of the evening’s plans.

    That being said, there’s sex and then there’s Sex.

    5. Italian – Saturday Night sex. Sex after a genuine date, usually casual, but you definitely got a sitter. Maybe a few drinks or a concert. Public displays of affection, hand-holding, suddenly pulling her into a corner for extended smooching, making out in the car, maybe a little light foreplay on the way home. Sex in at least four positions, likely twice (or once but for an extended period of time), with mood music and appropriate lighting. Toys beyond basic vibrator and lube are suggested. Light fantasy play is also a possibility.

    6. Continental – High Fantasy sex. The kind of sex you have when the kids are at the grandparents for a three-day weekend, you have the house to yourself and access to soundproofing. This is where you experiment with cosplay, advanced toys, BDSM, a bunny suit, trapeze, sex swing, you name it. Consult local statutes to ensure you aren’t breaking any laws.

    7. Four Star – Hotel sex. It’s in a class by itself. You put even the most demure wife in a nice hotel room and the possibilities of invoking her inner slut are limitless. Hotel sex is a fine art, and like fine art it’s ridiculously expensive. “

  50. When I hear Mark Minters posts, I often think something like this:

    People take half a pill. They learn that women are not men, and then conclude that women aren’t worth the bother. Instead they could swallow the whole pill, continue their full schooling, and learn how to use women such that they are worth every bit of bother and more.

    It’s just like dog or horse ownership. Guys are complaining that their mates shit and piss everywhere and are bitches and nags, but they take no responsibility for not having learned the finer arts of animal control. The basis of which is dominance.

    Mark describes the painful and futile world of the beta, from the perspective of a man who’s only just realized that he was being a chump.

    He shows no knowledge or experience of the other world that is out there. The flip side option to life. A life where women willingly give over devoted care with all their hearts and every minute of their time. A world where making that happen is internalized through trial and error and effort over years and years until it is as natural as breathing.

    She speaks of the frustrations of dealing with women, but seems to have no knowledge of the pleasures of dominating women.

  51. “It’s just like dog or horse ownership. Guys are complaining that their mates shit and piss everywhere and are bitches and nags, but they take no responsibility for not having learned the finer arts of animal control. The basis of which is dominance.”

    We have horses and I agree with you 110% here. I have a trained a lot of horses and I am a woman in the process of my “training” (or learning, whatever you want to call it.)

    You might have no idea how really close horse training is to wife training but you nailed that completely. Uncanny, really.

  52. xsplat,

    Great comment. I always wonder, those girls that would be absolutely mortified at the thought of being trained, if they find a man who is willing to put in the time, do they change their mind about it, put on an act that they are not, in fact, being trained, or just leave the guy straight out? I strongly suspect it is not the third option.

  53. What you have to understand is that for example, every time you interact with a horse you are training it. to submit to you. to respect you. to understand that you are alpha. he moves out of your way when you walk towards him, not the other way around. a man in a alpha frame is doing the same all day long with his wife. little things establish the hierarchy and remind everyone of their place. the lead horse reinforces and establishes with his herd this all day every day 24x7x365. he never gives an inch else respect for his position is whittled away. we use that same type of behavior as humans to train the horse. uncannily, establishment of this same type of dominance works just as well in the home.

  54. The dominance behaviors give comfort to everyone as everyone knows their role. Most women would not conciously know they were being dominated. If its done right they shouldn’t know, they should just feel comfortable for the way things are and that things they are as they should be.

  55. “which will culminate in a mutually-satisfactory sexual experience involving a far higher level of expectation than “standard fare”. ”

    Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession. It requires a very high learning curve and intense level of self control, which comes only after technique mastery.

  56. Stingray, I’ve had all sorts of relationships, and most of my more recent ones have been of the monogamous live in kind. Whether the girl is a live in or not, they tend to naturally take on the geisha role. But sometimes it’s not so easy. My current was an asexual tomboy career girl when I met her. At 21 she was not yet out of college and lived in a fundamental religious dorm, under the strict control and guidance of the house mother. She walked like a man and assumed that all men where put on earth to do her bidding. After all, that’s how it had always worked for her in the past.

    Guys just fall all over themselves for her. She gets offers every time she leaves the front door. From businessmen, TV personalities, handsome halfies (half Indonesian, half Bule), doctors, doormen, or anyone with the balls to say what’s on his mind.

    So her expectations were to be a career minded head of the household. A modern girl, in other words.

    It took quite some time to train her, and I was both gradual and immediate in my approach. I held the frame of the dominant man, but only slowly gave her new expectations. At first I’d have her order out, putting the responsibility of food on her. Later I introduced her to cooking, then gradually encouraged her to take it up more commonly, until eventually she now sees it has her daily duty. Her sex needed a LOT of work. I basically made her into a woman, which is exactly what I told her I was going to do. “I’m going to make a woman out of you, and every day you will love me more and more”.

    Sometimes people claim that what I routinely accomplish with women is location dependent, but this Indonesian girl was as feminist as they come, plus. She dressed wrong, she walked wrong, she thought wrong, and she acted wrong.

    The man has to take responsibility for all of that. If the girl is useful in other ways – like if she’s hot enough and is romantic – then a long investment in training can have a decent payoff.

  57. Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession. It requires a very high learning curve and intense level of self control, which comes only after technique mastery.

    Women don’t expect this every time and matter of fact they should expect to be responsible for setting herself up for success (in whatever way she needs to.) Getting hot and sweaty and spending time huffing and puffing is fun too. Or being teased during a pool game wearing a mini skirt and no underpants. Or dancing provocatively in shoes way higher than you’d ever wear outside the house. The finish line is only a small part of the journey.

    “Date Night” is an entire evening of mind set more than “just sex” or “just partying”. Whatever happens happens. There are NO expectations other than Fun. Having said that of course the man always cums – hopefully more than once if at all possible.

    Date night really is all about HIM anyway – His night to spend with His girl the way He wants … and when that’s the focus, things go exactly the way they should. Date night isn’t about my pleasure and fun its about his pleasure and fun which become my pleasure and fun. which is what makes it so cool.

  58. I would love to know how her perceived happiness before she met you compares with what it was afterward. Women like me and Mina are often chastised as doormats or brain-dead even. I once thought myself strong and independent. It compared nothing to how I feel now being in a marriage with a dominant man whom I adore caring for. There is no way to express this to women who perceive themselves strong an independent whom no man is worthy of as they don’t need one. It more of an overwhelming warmth, a letting go. It’s far more than I ever felt before I met my husband.

  59. So Rollo,

    You were ahead of the curve, so far ahead that the PostStructural language to defend the Feminine Imperative was in construction.

    So now we “Looksist”. I assume that to be some derivative of sexist, and in the Jezebel headline, we have “Shallow Looksists”.

    So you beat Jizbowl to the punch in giving us the verbal ammunition to attack it.

    The Front Page Jizbowl article was more oblique than direct. It was commenting on an MTV documentary “Catfish” about women and men, mostly women that had an SMV of 3 or 4 being hoodwinked by a very attractive person online. In the Jizbowl article it was some Male Model that defrauded a woman.

    Never mind that masses of men are cheated and defrauded by women online to point that the whole Russian Wife thing has the word “Scammer” as the number 1 consideration. It is the first filter about any woman. Is she a scammer? Chat pages about Russian Wives have tips to spot scammers. Questions to forums list actions and inquire if this is a scam or not.

    And in my opinion 20% of the Colombian Cupid are Scammers. During the height of recession when Mexico’s electronic remuneration transfers, things like Western Union had plummeted, the transfers to Colombia remained constant from both Europe and America. Even BancColombia, the number bank in Colombia, has jumped into the trade, offering a debit card transfer directly into a BancColombia bank account for 7999 pesos, less than 5 dollars. The online man is barraged with stories of sick mothers, money for college or the girl would have to dropout, migraines without money for medicine, sisters in hospitals, money for food for hungry children. And the guilt of western men compels them to send it. After you are burnt a few times, then you recognize the scammers before they even attempt to scam you. Yes, the men are foolish for believing that a 21 year old babe is interested in a 49 year old man, but the visa chase and the poverty can obscure his judgement. It is hard to detect a visa seeker or a fun seeker who wants an American guy who comes and pays for everything like trips, clothes, and nightlife from a scammer. The Visa seeker or Fun Seeker has utility even though the man understands the long term prospects of either. But many gullible men, yours truly, included have been burnt because of a good and honest nature and a naivete that cannot believe that a woman would outright lie like and be such a great actress while doing it.

    But the Jizbowl article highlighted the women as victims and the men as the dishonest perpetrators. It was a convenient way to mask the condemnation of “Looksism” and cloak the reinforcement of the Feminine Imperative.

    Most women lack the “looks” the most successful men seek so any value towards “looks” must be shamed and diverted towards egalitarian values like degrees or personality, something the great body of women might obtain.

    So I commented.

    Something about how shallow it is for the Looksists to base choices in the genetic serendipity of Looks, and coincidentally “Those Men” tend to be that way, not Prudent like “Those women” that base mating choices on character, discipline, accomplishment which as a side effect is generally measured in money, success.

    No “Those men” are shallow for following their genetic imperative of basing mate selection on attraction, even though those qualities can enhance and ensure social success in their offspring.

    No, those women are being Prudent and not trying to manipulate the genetic tendency of men to choose mates based on attraction in order to short circuit the path to social and financial success, not trying to gain the cushy life and should never be shamed.

    And that we should NEVER shame women that throw themselves at wealthy men and get Pumped and Dumped by those bad bad rich men who used money as the bait as those “Looksist: fell prey to the bait of attraction. Ok, the men actually weren’t using the money as bait but joining Millionaire Match and posting their income or wealth when they filled out the questionaire. Ok, having the money the money is a criteria for membership for men. But whether it was their intension or not, the money was bait to the women who jumped up after it like Shamu after a fish from trainer at Seaworld. Ok, the men weren’t actually being deceptive when the pumped and dumped the women, but rather exercising the large number of options. But they’re still bad bad men that “use women”. We also should not note that If the woman had based their choices on character or potential less than the actual size of a bank account than they may have met a male partner more prone to commitment.

    But the two, women who get pumped and dumped by economic alphas because they throw themselves at the men and they highly value money and “Looksists” who get defrauded by high SMV, are just not the same are they?

    So 20 minutes after I post the comment, Jizbowl changes the front page story to Kim Kardashian getting a facelift.

    Maybe coincidence. Probably.

    The second time it has happened though. I post a comment with some variation of what I learned on Rational Male.

    And shortly thereafter, Jizbowl moves the story down from the prime links to something below the fold.

  60. From Sexual Marxism

    “Many men feel burdened by the high expectation of delivering multiple orgasms, one after another in succession.”

    No burden. That just happens. And if not, I’ll still get off and sleep like a baby.

  61. There’s been a LOT of great stuff in this thread, I admit, but I still think the Onion article I previously referenced has been unjustly ignored. A sample:

    “More seriously, in addition to an unfair division of labor, nature is rife with sexual abuse and harassment. The UCSD study estimates that in 2001 alone, more than 170 trillion cases of abuse occurred in the world’s forests, grasslands, and oceans—all of them unreported.

    ‘During the act of mating, the female moose is subject to excessive biting, nipping, and herding,’ Tannen said. ‘The male has no qualms about using sheer, brute force to overpower his sex partner, and the female, accustomed to this sort of rough treatment after millions of years of it, doesn’t even realize there’s something wrong.’

    ‘Then, when it’s time for the bull moose to complete the sexual act,’ Tannen continued, ‘it’s over in about five seconds, with no regard to female pleasure whatsoever. Typical.'”

    The line again:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/study-finds-sexism-rampant-in-nature,130/

  62. “And in my opinion 20% of the Colombian Cupid are Scammers.”

    You don’t say? There was a spammer in the Manosphere “Boycott American Women” who kept posting links to some “Mail Order Indian Bride” site every time he left a comment somewhere.

    It was all one big entire fake scam. You had to PAY before you could even email the “girls”. Considering that more than 80% of Indian marriages are arranged by parents to prospects who are of the same cultural and religious background as their kids, and PUAs fail miserably there because “its just not that kind of place” – he really thought we were gonna fall for that bullshit? Really?

    MINA,
    “Women don’t expect this every time and matter of fact they should expect to be responsible for setting herself up for success (in whatever way she needs to.)”

    Sure, we’re all “responsible for our own orgasm” (isn’t that a Feminist meme) but it takes two to tango. The “setting herself up for success” involves a learning curve on behalf of her partner as the “setting up” involves teaching him what works for her body and techniques he must practice on his own, such as Kegel exercises and others.

    Listen, ts great that your guy gets two days a month where its all about him instead of you, (men need that too sometimes), but you keep repeating that( like the NAWALT mantra) as if we are supposed to be overbowled by you or something, and as if you’re the only person on earth to have ever thought of it. Alte, Aoefe, Thag Jones, Sofia and others all learned the hard way that phishing for complements in the Manosphere is a futile endeavor and they all eventually were sent whimpering away with their tails between their legs Now you, Judgy Bitch and other late comers are here to wash, rinse, repeat the same cycle. Good luck, babe.

  63. actually the only reason I even posted is that the movie featured in this article was most of the impetus for the big changes around here, that specific scene with the couch as a matter of fact. some of what I post I am just thinking through things. it doesn’t matter what you think of it, but I am interested in the feedback. unfortunately not much of it has been useful or has helped moved my understanding forward. I do find your need to belittle me really interesting though. I’ll have to think on that for a while.

  64. @Mark Minter

    It is ok man. It really is. You are going to be ok. We appreciate watching you dump your misery onto these boards. But trust us, it will get better. And trust us again, there is a new world out there that you might not even be able to comprehend yet, one where women fill a particular and beautiful role. A role that you define and control. Where you get what you want and feel good about it all.

    Mastery, Mark, Mastery is what we can offer you if you just listen and observe and go through these early stages of pain and suffering.

    You’ve become somewhat famous in these small parts of the internet because of your rants and how they resonate with so many other men who are hurt. But alas, you reveal your naiveté, your inexperience, your relative novice status with each post.

    At some point it will behoove you to just sit back and listen for a while. The pain goes away. Acceptance of a new reality settles in. And in time, Mastery of your domain.

  65. Rollo, On the previous post I had posted my confusion about women’s need to fight. I think I have figured it out and wonder what you think. A shit test is a women’s way of seeing if a man is really the way he presents himself. Any guy can act alpha, but a women needs to test for congruence to see if the act meets the reality and holds up. PUAs are experts at appearing congruent by passing the tests. On the other hand, a nice guy is an expert too, an expert at being nice. Just as a PUA know the way to react in every situation, a nice guy knows the nice thing to do in every situation: how to appease, how to be accepting, how be supportive, and so on. In other words, the nice guy passes each congruence test with flying colors; he remains totally congruent with his niceness. And yet this drives a woman crazy because they still sense they are not getting the reality even though their testing is consistently foiled by him remaining congruent with niceness. Eventually the frustration of her tests constantly failing to do what they are designed for, detect reality, boils over and she explodes in anger. A women will say that she doesn’t feel a connection between them, which means she feels she is getting all artifice, artificial niceness, and not connecting to the reality. She will say she doesn’t feel that she knows her man, which is again a way of saying that she isn’t connecting with reality and is only being given a screen of false representations.

  66. I found this quote online and I agree with it. “Feminism is basically a luxury that can only exist in a world with abundant cheap energy, surplus everything, peace, and democracy. It can’t survive war on it’s land, wide scale civil unrest over a long term, scarcity of energy or other essential resources. Why is there no feminist in Cuba. Why has feminism crept into India only since they have developed western standards of living.” Has anyone in the “manosphere” spent any time analyzing the relationship between this matrix and the much larger global socio-economic matrix enabled by abundant, cheap fossil fuels (a matrix which is currently faulting)? Has anyone spent any time thinking about when and how that bigger matrix falters to the point that civilization start to “see” it and what the role of enlightened men (like the ones in the manosphere) as leaders and alphas might be? Have some or anyone of you in the manosphere taken this bigger “red pill” yet? (Google: Karl Denninger, Chris Martenson, James Kunstler, Charles Hughes)

  67. Baffled, you are correct that shit tests are congruency tests. However, it is also (even more so) testing for alpha qualities. The more alpha you are, the more shit tests you get at the start. Then once she has acknowledged your being alpha, you get them less. Only when she needs to be reaffirmed of your alpha you will get a shit test thrown your way.

    Nice guys, even though they pass the congruency part of the test, still fail the test because they do not display the desired alpha qualities. That is why women keep testing nice guys, in a hope that she’ll finally find a spark of alpha in him to satisfy her hypergamy.

    She’s disappointed in the nice guy not for sensing ‘they are not getting the reality’, but because he hasn’t displayed alpha qualities or simply does not have them. Crudely said her hypergamy is telling her: “why the fuck are you still with this worhless slob?” this leads to a hamster rationalization of: “but I’m with him, so he can not be a worthless slob!?” So she is angry because she’s confused about the man not displaying the alpha traits. This is the source of the disconnection feeling. It is all her hypergamy vs hamster battles.

  68. Mina, I touched upon those socio-economic luxuries in a comment on this blog not too long ago. Another commenter in the same thread after me posted it a lot more eloquently than I did.

    Basicly, these are luxuries gifted to us by the height of our living standards. When the world around us turns sour and we can not keep up these living standards, the luxuries will be the first to go. This because we will fall back upon our nature as human beings and since there will be less government protection, the right of the strongest will be one of the first imperatives to be naturally restored. No matter how hard women will scream, physically men are still stronger.

    A cultural recession so to speak will correct this.

  69. Mina: Prosperity and security are definite prerequisites for feminism. Few women will cry “I am woman, hear me roar!” when an actual lion may roar back at them. “Empowerment” isn’t quite as fun when it means you have to cut your own firewood (and not for fun on a camping trip, during the winter when you need it to survive).

    The first seeds (that I know of) of feminism came at the tale end of the Enlightenment after Europe underwent a tremendous transformation of prosperity. (I consider Rousseau to be the Matriarchy’s Patriarch, something I’ll expand on eventually) As the prosperity continued, so did feminism, makings its biggest strides after the industrial revolution increased living standards dramatically.

  70. I think the historical relationship between feminism and surplus energy and the impact the coming civilization changes will have on gender roles in is worthy of a very detailed analysis. Has anyone explored this that you know of?

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