Late Life Hypergamy

Commenter YaReally dropped an interesting set of videos in last week’s comment thread and I thought I’d riff on them for a bit today. I’m not familiar with Loose Women (the TV show anyway), but from what I gather, it’s on par with The View or any similar mid-day women’s talk show. I don’t make a habit of watching shows dedicated to entertaining women’s need for indignation, but I regularly have readers email or tweet me segments asking for my take on certain aspects of them or how they relate to Red Pill awareness.

It should come as no shock to my readers that shows of this formula are a social manifestation of women’s base natures. Every conversation takes on a sense of seriousness and gravity, but the tone and the presumptuousness that drives these conversations are rooted in women’s solipsism. All iterations of this show are presented from a perspective that assumes a pre-understood feminine primacy. It’s also no coincidence that the rise in popularity of women’s talk shows has paralleled the comfort women have in embracing Hypergamy openly.

Whenever I get a link to something the women on The View discuss it’s almost always a confirmation of some Red Pill principle I’ve covered previously, and in this instance Loose Women doesn’t disappoint. Saira Khan (I apologize for my lack of knowing who she is or why I should care to) related to the panel of women – and the expectedly disproportionate female audience – that at 46 years of age and two children (only one by her husband) she has entered some commonly acknowledged phase where she finds herself lacking all libido for her husband.

I decided to write a full post on these clips because Saira amply demonstrates every facet of the latter phases of maturity I outlined in Preventive Medicine. She begins her self-serving apologetics by prequalifying her previously “fantastic sex life in her younger years” and moves on to her bewilderment over her lack of arousal for her glaringly Beta husband. We’ll get to him later, but she’s a textbook example of a woman in what I termed the Alpha Reinterest phase from Preventive Medicine. Granted, at 46 Saira is experiencing this “stage” a bit later than most women, but we have to consider the difficulty she had in having and adjusting to children later in life – all undoubtedly postponed by her obvious fempowerment mentality and careerism.

I love you, but I’m not in love with you

It’s likely most men in the Red Pill sphere have experienced and discussed this very common trope. Saira is quick to apply a version of this standard self-excusing social convention. She “loves her husband” and “he’s a great man”, but lately(?) she simply has no desire to fuck him. I’m highlighting this because it’s an important part of the psychology and the self-excusing rationales that revolve around the less-than-optimal outcome of women’s dualistic (AF/BB) sexual strategy.

It may serve readers better to review the Preventive Medicine series of posts, but the short version is this: Once a woman has settled on a man for her post-SMV peak life plans, and the routine and regimen of a life less exciting than her Party Years begins to reveal the nature of a (usually Beta) man she settled on, that’s when the subconscious sexual revulsion of him begins. The feral nature of

Hypergamy begins to inform her subconscious understanding of her situation – the man she settled for will never compare to the idealized sexuality of the men she’s been with prior to him. Alpha-qualifying shit tests (fitness tests) naturally follow, but Saira herself describes her sexual revulsion for Steve as a sense of “panic” at the thought of him expecting her to be genuinely sexual with him.

As such, there becomes a psycho-social imperative need to blunt and/or forgive these feelings for the “lack of libido” women experience for their Beta husbands. Thus, we get the now clichéd tropes about how “it’s not you, it’s me” or “I love you, but I’m not in love with you.” Both of which amount to the same message – I love you, but I have no desire to fuck you. You’re a great guy and a swell husband, but my pussy only gets wet for Alpha.

Saira exemplifies this in her assessment of her husband (Steve), but more so, she illustrates the disconnection she knows is necessary to insulate her ego from knowing exactly what’s “wrong” with her. The problem with her lack of libido becomes separated from the source, Steve. So she says it’s not him, she just doesn’t want to do it.

She qualifies herself as someone loveable (she still cuddles and gets comfort from Steve), but this lovable ‘good person’ doesn’t want her lack of arousal to be something to disqualify her from feeling good about herself.

Solution: make sex separate and ancillary to her relationship with her husband.

For women in this phase, sex is equated with a chore. It’s a chore because it’s not something she has a desire to do, but still feels obligated to do. Steve walks through the door at 6 and her subconscious understands that the expectation of her is that she should be aroused by this Beta man she’s trapped into living with for the rest of her life. Hypergamy informs her subconscious and the manifestation is to find ways to avoid sex with a man her Hypergamous sense acknowledges is a suboptimal sexual pairing. Her conscious, emotive, female mind understands that she should want to fuck him, but it wars with her hindbrain that is repulsed by just the imagining of it.

In order to contend with the internal conflict created by Hypergamy, and a woman’s settling on a poor consolidation of it, social conventions had to be created to make separating sexual arousal (Alpha Fucks) from women’s personal worth (Beta Bucks investment) and the attending bad feelings it causes for them.

Ironically, this show’s original premise was based on the question of whether sex was even a “must” on a couple’s wedding night. This is a prime example of separating desireless sex from women’s sense of personal worth. I wrote about this in Separating Values. If sex is ancillary or only an occasional bonus, it ceases to be a deal-breaking factor in marriage for women when they don’t have a desire to fuck their Beta husbands.

Conflating Values

One of the major problems women have, and more than even some red pill men have, is the conflation of sexual market value with their intrinsic personal value as a human being.

It needs to be emphasized that while personal value is influential in sexual market value, SMV is distinct from your value as a human being. I’m stressing this because, in the age Disney Princess empowerment, this conflation of the two has become a go-to social convention; and not just for women.

What Korth suffers from is presuming her personal value is her sexual market value.

It’s disruptive to her self-perceptions and ego-investments when that presumption is challenged by a man who doesn’t want to fuck her for reasons based on the intrinsic value she believes she’s entitled to by virtue of maturity and imaginings of self-sufficiency. Just as women aren’t aroused by men’s own self-concepts of virtuousness and aspirations of higher purpose, men aren’t aroused by whatever ephemeral self-perceptions a woman may have.

In Khan’s case, she (and the many women in the audience who nod in agreement with her) must devalue sex as an article or an object rather than accept that it’s something she wants to engage in, just not with Steve.

There are many other social conventions that aid women in avoiding sex with Beta husbands. An even more common convention is the popularly accepted idioms that “sex just naturally declines after marriage” or “men and women often have mismatched libidos.” Both of these have filtered into our popular consciousness, but they serve the same latent purpose – excusing a lack of desire caused by women interpreting their husband’s lack of Alpha sub-communications. Wives don’t get tingles from Beta husbands, thus, they need to find ways to offset the bad feelings for themselves first, and their husbands secondarily.

The trick in this is women not personalizing their lack of arousal with a husband’s self-worth – “it’s not you, it’s me” – and deferring to some naturally occurring biological or psychological event that can be conveniently attached to the mystique of women.

It’s not you, but it is you

Thus, the rationale morphs from “it’s not you, it’s me” into “it’s not you, it’s the time/circumstance/effort/need for help with the chores/phase of my mysterious woman-ness” that’s causing her lack of sexual desire.” She’s got a busy life, she’s got kids, and in her pursuit of perfection in these arenas, sex somehow falls by the wayside – or at least the kind of non-obligatory, hot, urgent sex she used to enjoy in her fantastic youth. It’s not you, it’s just life.

It’s not you, it’s wives ‘naturally’ lose interest in sex. It’s not you, it’s that she panics at the thought of you expecting her to be aroused by you.

If sex can be delimited to being all about the person then a lack of women’s arousal can’t be blamed on the mechanics of sex. So when men complain about a lack of sex from their wives or a lack of enthusiastic genuine desire, we get the response we hear from the panel of women on the show; a sarcastic shaming of men who raise the issue that their wives are frigid with them.

“Oh, how can men survive without sex?” or a sarcastic “No bloke can be in a relationship without sex” is a deemphasizing of the importance that the role of sex plays in a marriage and any intersexual relationship. Once again this is due to the separating of personal worth of a woman from the sexual mechanics of Hypergamy that prompt her to genuine arousal. The easiest solution is to cast men into the same sexual expectations as women; if women can forego sex then men ought to be able to “survive” without it too.

This normalized idea stems from the equalist perspective that men and women being equal should also share equal attitudes, prompts, and appetites for sex. This is a biological impossibility of course, but the conversation serves as a stark illustration of women expecting feminized men to identify with the feminine and prioritize that identification above any and all considerations about their experiences of being male.

Ultimately this is self-defeating for women because the nature of the Alpha guy that women crave pushes him to have sex, not to deny himself of it.

In fact, that sexual insistence is a prime indicator that a woman is dealing with an Alpha. The man agreeing to the patience and effort needed to “wait out” his wife’s frigidity is indicating that he’s not accustomed to insisting on, and getting what he wants. If he can sublimate his most powerful biological imperative – to get sex – what else is he willing to sublimate?

Sex is the glue that holds relationships together.

The ladies on the panel mock this idea for exactly the same reason Saira is tying herself in knots about not being hot for Steve. He needs sex, but he shouldn’t really need sex because it’s all about the person and not the mechanics. But it is exactly the mechanics of Hypergamy that are at the root of Saira’s need to solipsistically feel better about herself to the extent that she’ll publicly emasculate her husband on national TV.

As the show grinds on, all of the predictable rationales for wive’s self-consolations for a lack of sex get run down like a check list. Kids? Check. Career? Check. Never do they address that she’s a

Never do they address that she’s a 46-year-old woman raising small children or that her so overstressed condition is only one consequence of delaying what passes for motherhood to her for so long. I understand Saira and Steve struggled with infertility, but my guess is that this too was a physical result of the life choices she made and the difficulty of conceiving and carrying a child to term well after her fantastic sexual prime. I’m 48 and my daughter graduated high school this year so I can’t imagine facing parenthood in my mid/late 40s. This isn’t even an afterthought for the panel because it exposes the costs of the feminist-inspired careerism the show is triumphantly based upon.

Shit Tests and Marriage

As I mentioned earlier in this post, wives in this state will still shit test their husbands just as readily as any single woman. We are meant to believe, no we are expressly told, that Saira’s sexual revulsion is “normal” and it’s not Steve or his dedication that’s at issue. Yet during all of Saira’s journey of self-discovery about her lack of libido, she suggests that Steve go out and find a woman who will fuck him. At some stage in their great open communication, Saira gives Steve express permission to go out and bang another woman because she just can’t.

Naturally she couches this in the idea that she’s so devoted to him “as a person” that she just wants him to be happy, however, she is so repulsed by him, sex is a happiness she can’t find within herself to even feign for him. For all the shocked gasps from the women in the audience, what this amounts to is a very visceral shit test for Steve.

The purpose of the ‘dare’ for Saira is meant to determine whether Steve can still (if he ever) generate genuine sexual desire in other women. I’ve covered this dynamic in at least a dozen different posts – women want a man who other men want to be, and other women want to fuck. Steve’s steadfast devotion to his wife is anti-seductive and Saira, on some level of consciousness, knows this. If another woman found Steve attractive enough to bang it would generate Dread, social proof and confirm his preselection among other women. And as I’ve mentioned countless times, breakup sex (or near breakup sex) always trumps contrived, preplanned special occasion “date night” sex, which predictably is the suggestion that ends the second video.

And as I’ve mentioned countless times, breakup sex (or near breakup sex) always trumps contrived, preplanned special occasion “date night” sex, which predictably is the suggestion that ends the second video.

Steve, the dutiful Beta, is also predictably dumbfounded by her “suggestion”. He’s heartbroken from a feminized emotional perspective, but also because, like most Beta men, he’s heavily invested in the fallacy of Relational Equity. He’s observably sexually optionless so it’s a moot point, but if he were to muster up the balls and the Game to take her up on her oh so caring suggestion to fuck another woman, he risks losing the relationship equity he believes his rational, empowered wife should appreciate and factor into her attraction for him.

Thus, Steve comes up with rationalizations for why he didn’t take her up on her offer of permissive infidelity. He makes his necessity (really his optionlessness) a virtue and sticks to the standard Beta wait-it-out supportiveness he’s been conditioned for but is actually the source of his sexless marriage. He defaults to the “open communication” solves everything meme while ignoring the message that the medium of his wife’s sub-communication is telling him. Steve attributes everything (accurately) to his conditioning that most men, “typical blokes”, are Betas whose responsibility ought to be unconditional supportiveness when in fact they really have no other choice but to be so.

She doesn’t want to be ‘fixed’

One last thing occurred to me while I picked these clips apart. At the end, the panel of women defaults to the “it’s not you Steve, you’re a great guy, Saira’s just experiencing a normal frigidity that comes along for women in marriage.” I thought this was interesting because there’s a push to accept this frigidity as a normal phase women experience, but it still relies on the idea that sex and personal worth are two separate aspects of this problem.

If the root of this ‘normal’ problem is one about mechanics (it’s not Steve, it’s Saira’s physical/psychological malfunction) then I would expect there could be a mechanical solution to the problem. Even the fat brunette panelist suggest that all it takes is a better ‘effort’ on Saira’s part to get herself into the mood, but she even rejects this. Her problem isn’t a pharmaceutical one or a behavioral one, it’s a holistic one rooted in hardwired Hypergamy. So repulsive is the thought of fucking a Beta that Saira cannot psych herself up to do so.

I wondered if she would even consider taking the new “pink pill”, the female form of viagra, but I’ve read enough counter argument articles from women about it to know that women’s hardwired psychology prevents them from even chemically altering themselves to want to have sex with a man her Hypergamy cannot  accept. My guess is that even a cheeky holiday in the Maldives won’t be enough to convince Saira to want to fuck Steve.

However, this simple fact, that women will refuse to take the Spanish Fly to work themselves up and bypass their Hypergamy for their Beta husband’s happiness, destroys the convention that her frigidity is the result of her biomechanics. She doesn’t want a pill to fix her because she knows it’s a holistic problem.

Saira knows how to please Steve sexually, she simply doesn’t want to, and it’s because Steve is Steve.

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Re kids…

There cannot be a rise of The Patriarchy without actual patriarchs at the end of the day.

It really is the only hope for reigning in the FI. And it can happen in two generations.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Trent Lane

Bottom line is you get the relationship you deserve at the end of the day. That doesnt excuse women misbehaving and it damn sure doesnt excuse your abdication of your own rules, codes and beliefs.

Jimmy B
Jimmy B
5 years ago

theage.com.au/national/travelling-solo-down-the-bumpy-road-of-ivf-and-single-parenthood-20160511-gosufa.html

Jimmy B
Jimmy B
5 years ago

God, she’s so unattractive why would anyone want to fuck her anyway?! So many “men” these days are just so desperate it’s pathetic…

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@ Trent Lane “Can any of you older and successfully married guys confirm this perspective? I’ve certainly never experienced this effect as described above in any monogamous realtionship and know very little married couples around me of whom I could say the above _might_ be true.” I can confirm that marriage 1.0 situation. I think that sums I what I have going on. I actually do feel liberated. Imagine that. And unfortunately it is a generational thing. Marriage 2.0 is going to suck. So don’t do it. And I concur with Sentient on “That doesn’t excuse women misbehaving and it… Read more »

kaminsky
kaminsky
5 years ago

IAS, “I think they have One-itis… For their kids.” Yeah. That’s kind of a funny way to put it but I know what you’re saying. Facebook reveals a lot with people acting like publicists for their own kids. Either it is just them having a true commitment/obsession with their kids (which I think is cool) or else it’s a kind of mechanism of sorts to overcompensate for some deep trouble. When you give up all of your time, energy, freedom, mobility, emotion, dreams and basically your whole life for a kid then there has to be insecurity (in some parents)… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

I need advice from readers….

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

Advice for situation, To react or not to react: I will explain the context of my doubt. Me: 38 year, in good shape, regularly in the gym, about upper middle on economic scale, not always a perfect christian husband (2-3 plates for hung up), from patriarchy family with same doing in my marriage. Wife:37 years, in good shape, maybe about 7, more cute than hot on sexy scale, submissive, has bigger salary and regularly by me a things, sex is always there (in alpha and in beta phase of the cycle), regularly good with children and in house. If somebody… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

This like some situation from novels to her: 2 mother fucker, both good on every scale and she is in the midlle…perfect for women…

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

And I can imagine my self in situation without all this TRP knowledge….like sumb dumb pig….waiting hapyy for knife

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

@cattaro
Do not forget to ask about the welfare of mr foodstu
ff free ride wife and children.Have you ever met mrs foodstuff free ride?

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

His wife is defently biger and less hot than my. I did not undestand wery well poent of your message.

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

My first doubth is thoes to mention to my wife that I had spoted him. Is it good or bad direction…

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

If his wife is bigger and meaner then your wife may respect her jelousy better than yours..If you ask him about the welfare of his wife and children in front of your wife it shows your concern and changes her perception of his availability and motives.

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

I know that for you this looks like naive situation….but for me is Damn if I dont spot on his presence Damn if do.

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

No I get it.You have to keep the upper hand and take the high road to keep frame.If his motives are good no problem if not you will crush his frame.In a sense this guy is a slap in the face,your wife is naive not to see this.

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

I don think that she is to much naive. Maybe she loves his atention and if I mention that to her…than like Rollo say: Hypergamy radar is aweking….hmmm…why is my husband jelous…maybe ..Mr.Foody is better…and than he is always here when I am not good to my wife remaind…if I mention to her about him….

pinelero
pinelero
5 years ago

@ Blaximus, *When I go out with my family, my 16 year old still loves to hold my hand while walking. My wife tipped me to something that I was unaware of a few weeks back. While walking in a mall, holding my child’s hand, wifey said that people were gawking at us. I was oblivious to what other folks were doing, but my wife said it was because of the age difference.* Great story! It’s obvious you’re a beloved father! I told my girls since they were little that I was always gonna hug them or hold their hands… Read more »

Dunhill
5 years ago

Rollo, there’s a certain problematique I’d like to share with you. I believe it is in some way linked to the dynamic you’ve outlined in this post. The only difference is; the roles reversed. Most of the content on this blog is about the deeper psychology in women, the Preventative Medicine series is such that describes various life stages a woman goes through her timeline and how she copes with them. Revealing stuff, but I haven’t seen many concerning my own development; just a heads-up on what I’ll be encountering with women and a true display of what those encounters… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

@cattaro
Exactly her solipsistic naivity may be about how well can he keep his own wife happy.That is why I would take that tact.I am going out for fathers day breakfast and am quite sure that Blax and sj will have some good input for you stay cool man.

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

To ask him in front of my wife?…Good day man, are your wife and kids in good wealth….or something like that (threat)

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Dunhill The situation you described with your friend is somewhat unique. The situation is not as common in non-LTR because the guy usually just Nexts the girl, especially if he has options but it does happen and is a problem not often written about. Your friend is probably a Natural Alpha and has good game. He is One-up in the relationships and in control of the girl (the one with the most power in the relationship is the one who needs the other less). It is normal to get bored in this situation. Being in love and being hot for… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Happy Fathers Day!

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

Ha! OK – I see it now. Blax, SJF and Rollo are pretending to be “alpha”. It makes perfect sense now. You guys I guess have found yourself in a position where your actual circumstances are informing you, you are not “alpha”, you can’t deal, go into denial, and then preen (Scrib’s apt descriptor) on and on about being “alpha” in order to compensate for the denial. Hahaha! LOL. OK this is just too funny once you see it clearly. That’s why the material you present is so warped when the entire message is considered in whole, ….. the cognitive… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

@The Man on
Yes my friend, you are totaly wright and now you can take a drink and leave this saloon, before sunset. Do not wory for rest of the people here….

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

cattaro – I got no beef with you but if I were you I would be very careful about uncritically accepting any advice you get here, from Rollo, SJF or Blax..

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

cattaro – wrt your current quandary – sounds like your concern is around a desire for being treated fairly by your wife. That’s a healthy human thing to desire. Now how is the “fair” gonna be painted by these 3? That’s what I am saying – be very critical of that before you decide for yourself.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“And here I am wondering all this time what’s the deal with the the hate-on for common human decency, or simple golden rule shit, or the “egalitarian” (pret-near a cuss word around these here parts), and why Rollo refuse to acknowledge he is using a warped PC definition of that word.” Stop being so confused about who we are and what we represent in our own narratives. The problem with our alleged hate for those terms is that you are using those terms as an Ideology, whereas Red Pill and Game are a Praxeology. You are ascribing motivations to why… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

@The Man on
Risk is taken…with all consenvences. “Problem” with Rollo story and other autors on this blog is becayse they story is matching 90% with reality. That is also a problem for all those with critic opinion on TRP. Before TRP it was only a HGFJ, GSETI…only numbers and leters in Enigma code mashine. And with TRP code everything is clear, 90 matching with reality. It is the bigest “problem” of TRP story….

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

@The Man on
I am honest man, probably whit that 3 you pointing on that 2-3 plates. Let this be the start position….Women like or can tolerarte man with many women. Man can’t so easy tolerate same thing….nature. This is something like aksiom in math….I hope it is a good translate

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Now how is the “fair” gonna be painted by these 3? “ I can barely understand his English or what the problem is. But I would always advise “Don’t be Butt-Hurt”, and if you are don’t show it. Read all the sidebar information on Married Red Pill Reddit. There is real gold there. And read Rollo: https://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/ https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/25/the-desire-dynamic/ And Cattaro could also try to be nice to his wife instead of just expecting her to treat him fairly. She will act out as a reflection of him. He wants freedom from constraint and she wants love. She wants non-butt-hurt Alpha.… Read more »

spartacus
spartacus
5 years ago

Hello cattaro, I was in a similar situation with my 2nd, now ex, wife. It didn’t have the immediacy that your situation does in that it occurred through social media and long-distance texting. The male usurper that I had to deal with, however, is the guitar tech for a well-known (but not headlining, like Def Leppard) 80’s hard rock band whom she had lived with 5 years before we met. Sh!t, right? The good thing is that he’s not very attractive and reeks of beta-tells. The down-side was that I was gradually losing Frame. Daaaaaaamn if women can’t be patient… Read more »

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

“The problem with our alleged hate for those terms is that you are using those terms as an Ideology, whereas Red Pill and Game are a Praxeology.” SJF – like always, you got the “is” and the “ought” reversed my friend. And you can’t see that for the reason I alluded to above. I’ve pointed this to you a few times now. “And Cattaro could also try to be nice to his wife instead of just expecting her to treat him fairly.”. SJF – There you go, of course you gonna say it that way for the reasons I alluded… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

re sunk cost; I’ve posted this link before, but since it’s come up, I’ll do it again:

https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Spartacus “Aside to Rollo: behavioral economics might go a long way in understanding and dealing with Red Pill wisdoms)” Good point. Like I said: Cattaro be nice or fun and add more value. Good behavioral economics essay here regarding this topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4ofab2/the_sexual_market_place_of_marriage/ “Marriage is still a sexual marketplace its just an illiquid market. This means you need to increase the value what you’re offering instead of simply finding a different buyer or withdrawing from the market completely. How to increase the value of what you’re offering: be attractive, don’t be unattractive, lift.” And from the same link I suggested to… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

My wife don know about plates, you know here. She just feell that I am ok with women and sometimes she mention like joke that maybe I have got children with some women somewhere. But we miss a direction…..what about Mr Food from other bylding. To act or not act on that

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

@cattaro
Yes definitely ask as to his families welfare in front of your wife..If you get him alone mention to him how you like the way things are,suggest he doesn’t interfere.

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

Cattaro – truth be told womenz spidey senses around the emotional tone of others around them, and what that reveals about the “hidden” life, is substantially superior to such abilities wrt your average man. Now the thing is ….. women tend to only use these power wrt to what their focus is, and wrt where their motivatins lie (so, if you don’t have a good read on her focus and motivations, sometimes it gonna seem like she be dumb around this – but usually that’s just not the case)

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Egalitarianism is against biology. Women hate men who are equals, sexually speaking. Saira hates to have sex with Steve Hyde because he is treating her like an equal.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Wild Man is as clueless as ever, but at least he is on point with the OP.

Dunhill
5 years ago

@SJF I think we might have stumbled upon pure gold here. SJF stay with me on this one, because I think this actually might be a healthy approach to inter-gender relationships (or maybe any for that matter). I believe a tiny detail newcomers to the RP might misinterpret is that Frame is about control over the other. Maybe I got this completely wrong, but I can’t help the feeling; If I were ever to love and appreciate a woman I might wanna pair with, I must take her for what she is and not tend to control her. Frame is… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

Ok people….forget about plates, like I never mention about them. I fell like you want to cut a skin from my head..haha.
What generaly about man like that Mr Foody, he is not some dumb he is a person for taking serious. What generaly about presence of such person in your interesting zone. Ok…constant progres on your side, but what moore

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago


What about reflection?….your meaning of this is something : If I am a thief….for my everyone behave like a thief….

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

@cattaro

One thing we are not stupid,Foody Freeride knows also there are no free rides…Your wife is your responsibility,his wife is his responsibility.You need to make this clear to him.If he tells your wife you are jeolous good if you tell her bad.Take Rollo up on his offer or you are a dumb ass.

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ spartacus Wanted to say this first: “Sh!t, right?” No. Get this out of your head ASAP. Never let other guys’ perceived status intimidate or fluster you, not even a little bit. I’m just calling you out here because I’m struggling with this too. It’s a mindset that needs to be 100% eradicated. I was out to eat the other day and saw a jacked guy in a wife beater. I immediately felt like I was two feet tall. Like this guy was REALLY jacked, like I’d never dream of having muscles like that, and he was attractive too. What… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ cattaro Please contact Rollo as per his offer. I am VERY curious what Rollo would have to say, if he would ever write a post dedicated to your problem. My situation: the ‘GF’ has Beta Orbiters up the wazoo. She will deny that they’re Orbiters. She always says she’d ‘never consider being with them.’ Just like your wife might deny any feelings for, or attraction to, Mr. Foody over there. …but the reality is “the medium is the message.” If she is associating with other men, and getting a little too friendly with them, that is the message. Nothing… Read more »

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

“You sound like ME, when I talk about my GF and her Beta Orbiters. She’s had some guy sleep over a couple times. …”

NEXT

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

asd – I dunno , if you want to bring biology into it again (like we have already done so many times here), then one does need to recognize that both competition as well as cooperation are themes that are really occurring in the dynamic that all of life is subject to. Perhaps best to leave it at that, and say no more, at least wrt biology. So once again I don’t see your point. But wrt your other point about what women want: Healthy women do want fairness for themselves, and you be basically an idiot if you refuse… Read more »

Kid Jupiter
Kid Jupiter
5 years ago
Reply to  The Man

Hey The Man,

Try to go 2 sentences without the ‘wrt’ tic.

having a bad day
having a bad day
5 years ago

@Sentient Spot the Alpha! HABD – is this the end game of the FI? serious question… if the ‘worker’ bees were all beta males (instead of female bees)… and all the girls = queens… then, yes, that’s the end point on that FI spectrum… AF/BB to the extreme… and we see that system change in play NOW… with Pareto principle shifting to 90/10 or 95/5… or are you seeing something else in-field?… bc what i’m seeing is that it takes tighter game overall… in all situs… there’s MORE latitude given to you by girls when you ping that AF tingle…(and… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@WildAssFart

Healthy women do want fairness for themselves, and you be basically an idiot if you refuse to see that.

You’re a cunt for saying this, lol.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

More trolls with their vagueness attacks on Frame.

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

@Softek
You are about 90% near the target. In my BP days I shouldnt even start to conect any dots, but whit RP I am loking in every small detail. And like an Army, not on 1. level ready for war but for sure it is 3.level.

pinelero
pinelero
5 years ago

@man… I don’t really understand what you are saying. Saira went on TV and devalued Steve by saying she didn’t want to have sex with him, which is a grand statement that he is not valued as a sex partner. What more clear cut evidence is needed? He is clearly valued as a friend, just not as a friend with benefits. In Marriage 1.0, a husband got the benefits, but in 2.0 the benefits for Steve are not guaranteed. A PUA getting played like that would simply next, so when Steve doesn’t next or do the MRP dread steps what… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Dunhill I’m with you fully there. Your interpretation sounds legit to me. And well Framed. That’s why the admonition that “Frame is not Power”. What you are talking is a balanced relationship in terms of not being a One-up and One-down situation. The imbalance of power is always uncomfortable, even for the One-up (if you can believe that). This is like a relationship like Fleezer has (in my opinion). Masculine/Feminine polarity with no boredom (sparks fly) and non-equalist– but a Complementary relationship. For a little more in depth about that Dean Delis book, The Passion Trap. The book has about… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

Also, I’d like to point out one thing: This is how Hypergamy works, right? Women are COVERT. So men like cattaro who are confused, or a bit in the dark in their situation… …are men who have succumbed PERFECTLY to the FI. This is exactly the goal of Hypergamy: to keep men who are currently chained down in an LTR or marriage (really, men as a whole in general) in the dark. https://therationalmale.com/2016/03/14/plan-b/ This is the same reason that this married chick I had a very short online “affair” with told her husband that I sexually harassed her. She was… Read more »

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

Softek – You know, the way you write about your girlfriend just keeps revealing more and more weirdness, and has made me wonder alot whether she is BPD. If she is BPD then you should just know, directly, by way of feeling like she be very very duplicitous, like her actions don’t line-up with what shes says, big-time, with the two-faceism so deep that she is sorta not getting it herself that she is in fact that deeply duplicitous, cause it is too blatant (like she is not in good contact with the reality around her). For some reason you… Read more »

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

“A PUA getting played like that would simply next, so when Steve doesn’t next or do the MRP dread steps what other conclusions can be drawn about him?” Is Steve a PUA wrt to his relationship with wifely? No he is not. So you can conjecture many many many things about good old Stevie, (I got like 100 conflicting conjectures of all stripes right now, off the top of my head, and maybe more if I actually wrote them down), so ……. what gives with the kneejerk towards selecting precisely one conjecture? That is the obvious question wrt what is… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Yin and Yang…. For every hypergamous monkey brancher… there is an alpha widow… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPcyTyilmYY The Ballad of the Alpha Widow I want you to know, that I’m happy for you I wish nothing but the best for you both An older version of me Is she perverted like me Would she go down on you in a theatre Does she speak eloquently And would she have your baby I’m sure she’d make a really excellent mother ’cause the love that you gave that we made wasn’t able To make it enough for you to be open wide, no And every… Read more »

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

asd – “You’re a cunt for saying this, lol.” OK – I’m really not getting the joke, but alright if you mean I be a cunt the way an Aussie guy calls another guy a cunt – OK – I be getting it then – and cool – you be right! I be that kind of cunt quite often (as we all are here from time to time – it sure is great to have the man’s life – eh?).

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@culum @yareally @hadb So for today I didn’t get to go out until later. Which was dissapointing becuase I wanted to make a whole day of it — mall, day 2, downtown (and longer in downtown, like the coffee shop I wnt to go to was closed when I got there) Was concerned about arriving late, as I was unsure about parking situ. And ended up you have to pay upfront with exact change, that i didn’t have. So had to drive down to bar to get some change then go back to park. Was busy so whole deal took… Read more »

The Man
The Man
5 years ago

KJ – OK I try.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

HABD

He he… I knew some entomologist was going to say something about female bees (expected KFG)… The males can’t be pictured in their worship because apparently they die shortly after impregnating the queen with a lifetime of sperm… The Secret Life of Bees indeed…. LOL

“but the system will fail long before that end point (in the photo) is reached… and that’s just a math problem… which we can also see in play NOW…”

This is what will give rise to the Alpha Farms. and a similar lifetime supply of sperm culled from dead alphas…

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@cattaro June 19th, 2016 at 11:23 am “@SJF What about reflection?….your meaning of this is something : If I am a thief….for my everyone behave like a thief….” I’m still not understanding you very well because of your mastery of English writing. Reflection? (serious thought or consideration): Yes you have a problem on your hands. It is either in your head or it is in her head. Either your wife is desiring to connect with the guy (and he with her) or not. And I think you need to use married man Game to defuse the situation if it is… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ redlight The road to NEXT is long and winding for the Blue Pill man. To a Red Pill guy, the medium as the message is crystal clear. To a Blue Pill guy, or currently-unplugging guy like me, it’s not crystal clear. At all. YaReally has pointed out a million times that she doesn’t even want me looking at porn or other women, and yet she feels like she should be free to have as many Beta Orbiters as she wants, which is a huge red flag. I honestly don’t believe she’s been fucking these guys. And I think this… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Blax

“While walking in a mall, holding my child’s hand, wifey said that people were gawking at us.”

when I take my early 20’s daughter out, my wife will ask if I am going out with my trophy wife…. LOL

Of course you get plenty of mad looks from middle aged women at dinner…

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@culum @yareally @habd Went out maybe 30 min, but some of the most progress. Went to mall. Hated, again, couldn’t spend longer. Feel like if I didn’t have work would have fixed a lot of shit this weekend. Anyway, got food at mall. Sat alone, but found a table with on chair on it. Just pretended I was a king. That I was so awesome no one else was good enough to sit with me. I was the motherfucking king surveying my domain. Actually got some looks from some fat 5s nearby lol. Wasn’t super efficient for game, but just… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Cattaro

I may be in the minority here… oh well…

On your situation – what is it you feel in your gut to do? what is the first reaction you have?

That is most likely the correct course. Think about that and report back.

also what country you in?

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

eer, for asian girl NOT thai ask “So what part of asia ARE you from”

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

@softek

It doesn’t matter what she is doing or not doing. If she is GF, and has other guys sleep over it’s an instant next. Now I don’t tell her that since I want a drama-free next, so I would tell her I’m dedicating all my time in the next few weeks to my new business idea. Some might suggest demoting GF to a plate, but again unnecessary drama.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Now if Steve deserves that devaluation, is another matter, and truth be told, like I said all along, we don’t have enough evidence to make out much by way of conclusions there, that would be other than just conjecture.” You Gotta Be Fucking Shitting Me. And it has nothing to do with me faux alpha signaling. Steve’s condition is obvious. When Saira tells us on national TV overtly she doesn’t want to fuck Steve she means it. So give that line of thought a rest. Why do you think YaReally posted the videos in the first place? To explain that… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@WildDuderismo

You’ll get the answer to my riddle in the corner of the round room.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Troll is just playing frame games. Use his game to improve frame control.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Softek

That was an awesome post. Kudos.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Lol, ASDgamer. I know not to feed the trolls.

I’m trying to provoke him into being banned by Rollo for spam. He’s a hairbreadth away. And he’d likely be outa here if Rollo wasn’t enjoying Father’s Day.

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

Why skip the obvious. We were never meant to be in monogamous relationships. Rollo panders to the Alpha myth as a solution to keep your woman aroused. The sad truth is nothing is going to make a woman want you once she has you. To say she wants you is a misnomer. She doesn’t want you. She never wanted you. You were just a means to an end. Just as she’s meant to be a secure source of sexual gratification for you. No where in nature does a female provide sex at the point of want for her partner. An… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ The Man I do have an actual condition that qualifies as a mild thought disorder. The situation with the girl is most easily summed up like this though: Scarcity mentality. It’s my fear of losing her, and my believing that she’s the best I’ll ever be able to do, and my believing that I’ll never be able to pick up women or find anyone else I really like, that is keeping me in the relationship. It’s taken months of her extreme neediness for me to start to realize that it isn’t healthy, and isn’t normal. I’m realizing it simply… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ redlight I never would’ve thought of that (telling her you were working on your business or something). Covert vs. Overt. I just had the realization that NEXTing is more about you than the woman; not wasting your time with BS and getting in the habit of prioritizing yourself and your time. If I’m correct this is the same reason for Soft Nexting. You don’t be an ass about it, or make a huge deal out of it; you just withdraw silently, or with minimal explanations. @ asd Thanks. TRM is about the only community I have at the moment… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

It sounds to me as if in Cattaros country,the women may outnumber the men ,making it a more patriarchal society…It also sounds as if mr foody Freeride has more power than Cattaro,so maybe he doesn’t want to stand up to this guy idk.But this Freeride guy isn’t only threatening the relationship with Catts wife he is threatening the whole family situation ,this is serious.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Sentient: “… I knew some entomologist was going to say something about female bees (expected KFG)… ” I stared at if for a while thinking I must be missing something. I finally concluded you meant a visual metaphor and that I shouldn’t take it literally. “This is what will give rise to the Alpha Farms. and a similar lifetime supply of sperm culled from dead alphas…” There is a David Brin novel, Glory Season, which builds a world where feminists with the ability to engage in genetic manipulation build their utopia on their own planet. The sexes are largely segregated… Read more »

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

Covert vs. Overt. I just had the realization that NEXTing is more about you than the woman; not wasting your time with BS and getting in the habit of prioritizing yourself and your time.

If I’m correct this is the same reason for Soft Nexting. You don’t be an ass about it, or make a huge deal out of it; you just withdraw silently, or with minimal explanations.

nailed it

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Mrs. Gamer is like Mary in the following Marty Robbins song. I’ve never heard of any other woman like Mary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh_XhovQB9M I told Mary about us. I told her about our great sin. Mary cried and forgave me, Then Mary took me back again, Said if I wanted my freedom I could be free ever more. But I don’t want to be, And I don’t want to see Mary cry anymore. Oh, Devil Woman, Devil Woman, let go of me. Devil Woman, let me be, And leave me alone. I want to go home. Mary is waitin’ and weepin’ Down… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago
HowlingManTodd
HowlingManTodd
5 years ago

This ‘nycsouthpaw’ guy seems ripe for the Red Pill:

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/744631567650267137

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

KFG

Huh… Brin… Interesting and spooky. Yikes!

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

@ Sentient What is my gut feling? Hmm…this man is like shadow, I saw him when is suny day. I must repeat again: with my wife I had alweys have sex and it is ok, she is submisive to me, she by things for my, what I decide that hapening. But this man is what Rollo say….contextual Alpha only and I say only because his director place in company. A triger to write a mesage was a situation a day before when my wife did not say hello to him in my presence and that wasn not a first time.… Read more »

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

I am from Montenegro, and women generaly love us becayse we gain power not from hard work…We gain power from tribal conection, semi criminal work, pryde, courage, danger work in army, police or in gangs all over ex Yugoslav countrys. This man is contextyal danger…I can generate realy danger from one telephone call on right place, but that is not the point.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Cattaro:

Up in Black Mountain,
children will smash your face.
Up in Black Mountain,
children will smash your face.
New born babes cry for liquor,
and the birds all sing in bass.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Cattaro

I mean what does your gut tell you to do about the situation with the guy. How to handle it?

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Good instincts on the “she did not say hello”

Big tell there.

But tell us what your gut says about handling this?

cattaro
cattaro
5 years ago

Two things definitly First: I should ask him about whealt of his wife and children, best in presence of my wife. Second: I will definitly speak about that man with my wife if she decide not to say hello or good day to that man in my presence and stay calm like she dont know him. I should point to her that there is not any reason to do that to man who drive her and which number is in her phone. My position will be clear, fuck the shit tests. I know what is in air maybe, everybody know… Read more »

stuffinbox
stuffinbox
5 years ago

@Cattaro
Goodonya I am happy I am not Mr Foody Freeride.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Cattaro OK. Your instinct is to confront… Albeit in a plausibly deniable way. My view of mate guarding is what’s mine is mine. Simple as that. So I would go visit this guy and have a chat with him one on one. And remind him what’s mine is mine. This could take a variety of forms depending on his reaction. I would start by asking him why he never brought me food or took me for a ride? And take it from there. He will likely bring up something about having the wrong idea, especially if you are a little… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@ Blaximus, *When I go out with my family, my 16 year old still loves to hold my hand while walking.

Yeah my 16yo did this when she was 14-15. Cute. Still does this at times now but makes me feel uneasy so I discourage it. I need to work on myself.

Blaximus
5 years ago

Just popping in momentarily.

Happy Father’s Day¡

@ Hank

Just a thought from reading your fr’s.

Try developing talking points/routines that do not concentrate so much on folks ethnicity or background.

In my opinion and experience, speaking as a minority type, lol, it’s a bit of a turn off depending on execution. It can be tricky.

I cringed reading about trying to guess folks ancestry. Slippery slope man.

No hate, just offering a perspective for you to mull over.

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

@Cattaro

That your wife is having regular sex with you, doesn’t mean she is not having sex with other men.

Your wife described you as cold. This is not good. Frame is necessary, but you also need to be engaging her emotionally. If not, she will seek out emotions from other sources, perhaps having an “emotional affair” or falling in love.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

redlight: “Your wife described you as cold. This is not good. Frame is necessary, but you also need to be engaging her emotionally. If not, she will seek out emotions from other sources, perhaps having an “emotional affair” or falling in love.“ This. Good luck with the Montenegrin or Serbian translation here. Perhaps try Google Translate: Your description of Montenegrin style is a problem here. Don’t ask your wife to fix her own emotional problem. Montenegrin masculine style is to analyze and fix. The masculine solution is to analyze and fix in a logical way. That is not the feminine… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@blax Its okay. Its just because you are an angry black man. Lol Nah, I haven’t really had push back from that much. There may be some initial uhh negative feeling I guess, however, I actually know a lot about other areas and have a legit interest in them so I don’t come across as “Oh look. A asian person. Which one of them asian countries are you from.” As much as, well, like my last FR when I told them a bit about Taiwanese history and the girl said “Wow, you are really smart.” Or when I chatted with… Read more »

pinelero
pinelero
5 years ago

@man… what is your conjecture about this BlogSpot? I still don’t get what you are going on about. I also mentioned dread… no feelz about that?

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@blax but, come to think of it, what is it with minorties and being judged by their appearence? Because, to me, its a lot like chicks. They get mad when they are picked out as being girls, they want to be treated just the same as dudes, but then they whoop and holler whenever there is the first WOMAN president or first WOMAN judge or whatever. Same with black people. Don’t judge us for our appearance, but WHOOOO HOOO BLACK PRESIDENT. Lol. Or OJ. Dude is a fucking piece of shit murderer, but lets support him JUST because he’s black.… Read more »

Emily
Emily
5 years ago

Was I being compared to this lady in the last topic? I must admit I’m offended. This woman is detestable. And her husband… ugh. If I ever behave like this I hope my husband doesn’t take any of my shit.

757
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