As Good As It Gets

goodasitgets

On several occasions I’ve gone into the pro’s and cons of marriage. I tend to get a couple of standard reactions to my take on marriage; the first is usually the binary, all or nothing response that virtually all women, and a significant number of feminized men, will throw at me after having only a cursory skim through a few of my articles. It usually goes something like,

“WTF?!! You misogynist asshole! So ALLLLLLL marriages are one-sided affairs for men, doomed to failure once a woman gets fat after pregnancy, greedy or bored and her hypergamy kicks in? My folks, grandparents, aunt & uncle et. al. are still together after ___ years so that proves that love can conquer all and you’re fulla shit.”

This is the usual response I get from deep blue-pill men and women still relying on their, feminine conditioned, ready dismissals so as not to have to actually dig any deeper into what I’ve  written about the truths of contemporary marriage and have their precious (and fragile) idol of a loving marriage challenged, and possibly destroyed.

Frames of Reference

The other reaction I get is the one I covered in Fidelity, which usually goes something like,

“Dude, how can you be a red pill Man and be married? It’s contradictory to everything you write, fuck you charlatan, I’m going back to (insert URL of PUA, MRA, MGTOW, christo-manosphere, etc. etc. site) and read up on the latest approaches.”

Again, this is usually the result of a guy without the patience to really read what I’ve posted here for the past two years, and developed in my writing over the past ten. If it seems like it’s TL;DR material  it probably wont resonate with an attention deficient reader.

Obviously in both these instances the responses come from a lack of understanding the totality of my personal history, life, Game and female experiences – which of course is what I hope readers will get a better grasp of when the book is released. I’ve had sex with over 40 women in my past, during a time when there was no such thing as formalized Game. I apply elements of Game in my line of work – the liquor, nightclub and gaming industries to be specific – and use it to my professional advantage with the women I work around and who work for me. I use aspects of Game with my daughter (Amused Mastery) and set myself as an example of the type of Man she should associate herself with – of the boys she likes we both make a point of distinguishing the chumps from the more confident and dominant guys. I observe elements of Game while reconditioning greyhounds. I’ve even recently used an AMOGing technique to get a better interest rate and price on a new car I purchased this year – and I only did it to see if it would work.

The Measure of Game

There is an element in the manosphere that will tell you that the only real form of Game, the only legitimate, measure of Game is how many women you’ve successfully banged in your pursuit of perfecting Game for yourself.

I agree with this assessment.

The real measure of Game is only truly tested by how well it gets you laid. You can use your understanding of Game to improve your life, your career, your family interactions, etc. You can use your grasp of Game to destroy a feminist’s arguments and you can use it to literally save a man from suicide, but the real test is in how well it provably functions in getting you to intimacy with a woman.

Roosh recently had a series of articles and tweets regarding the present legitimacy of Game. Among his concerns is the claiming of Game authority by men who have never really used Game to get laid. A couple years ago Matt Forney had a similar post on the old In Mala Fide site titled something like “Never trust the advice of guys who aren’t getting laid”. In the years I’ve spent on the SoSuave forum I’ve seen this concern come and go; it’s interesting to see these sentiments get recycled, but the concern is the same. When late-term virgin men feel they have the Game savvy to authoritatively give other virgins (self-inflicted or not) Game advice it delegitimizes Game as a whole.

On the internet we are who we say we are. I’ve been getting laid (and for the better part the old-fashioned way) since I was 17. I’ve also been married for the last 17 years. Both my sexual and relationship past, as well as my marriage have benefitted me with a comprehensive understanding of Game principles. Furthermore my studies in behavioral psychology and over a decade of involvement in the manosphere have made me a pretty good connector of dots when it comes to behaviorism, sociology and psychology with regards to gender dynamics. I’m not trying to prove my pedigree here, what I’m driving at is that while Game has more to it than just getting laid, if you aren’t getting laid (or laid more with your wife) then your Game is untested and not as legitimate as someone who has put their own Game into successful practice.

The New Monogamy

I recently got a PM from a reader, Emperor Lu Bu, wanting some input from me on a blog post he’d written contrasting the modern ‘horrors’ of marriage and the white knight apologists’ rationales for endorsing marriage:

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on that piece, primarily because I seem to recall you saying that you were yourself married (employing some sort of complicated “marriage Game” to remain so).

I must admit, I’m curious as to whether you found an Eastern wife, or whether you just rolled some particularly dangerous dice and took a Western one for yourself.

As I stated in Fidelity, I’m not anti-marriage, I’m anti- uninformed, pollyanna, shoulda’-saw-it-coming, ONEitis fueled, shame induced, bound for bankruptcy, scarred my children for life, hypergamy’s a bitch, marriage. I could very easily detail the aspects of my 18 year relationship with Mrs. Tomassi that would sound like my marriage is a one-of-a-kind white knight miracle, but it will only come off as some naive rationale similar to the social conventions Lu Bu lists in his post. However, I assure you Mrs. Tomassi is a pretty, thin, blonde American, any Game I do run has long passed the point of being a very uncomplicated subconscious part of who I am, and I’m well aware of how hypergamy, the feminine imperative and western matrimonial laws collude to make marriage a dangerous prospect. Caveat emptor.

In contrast with this, Dalrock had another post from the other side of the divorce spectrum this week in quoting an interview with Kate Bollick:

…for people who want to have kids and raise them with someone else, I wonder what the next alternative for love/sex/reproduction is. Because it seems like for women there’s currently two options: Option A, which is dating, marriage, kids (and divorce and remarriage, etc.), or Option B, which is every other nontraditional alternative, where it’s everyone for him/herself, trying to figure out what fits. Option A being pretty clear, and Option B being wide open.

As you can see the future looks pretty bleak for anyone rooting for team marriage. From the extreme manosphere perspective marriage is akin to Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a 6 shot revolver. From the Jezebel / Bollick side of the equation, the SMV navigation plan is no longer in need of any pretense or concealment; women are now comfortable in admitting the plan actually is to cash out of the SMP casino between 27-28 years of age and to take the beta provider schlub to the cleaners for future cash & prizes. Even for Athol Kay, his MMSL is an effort in after-the-fact marriage damage control.

As Good as it Gets

So where does that leave us? Back in 2003 Tom Leykis once had a great rant about how being an unmarried man, spinning plates in his mid-twenties to mid-thirties, was as good as it gets. I’m beginning to think this was more than a bit prophetic. I’ve written six individual post about the various aspects of Plate Theory, and although I presented the options for both a continued plate spinning plan and a path, at least, towards monogamy from plate theory, I’m starting to wonder if a continued, indefinite, commitment-ambiguity isn’t simply as good as it gets for men today.

For as much as Aunt Giggles would have anyone believe that both men and women want to be married – “want’s” got nothing to do with it. A desire to be married and live in an idealized and secure state of mutual love and respect with someone is really a no-brainer. The whole Minter affair (literally and figuratively) in July superimposes the idea that even the most anti-marriage guy still wants to be married, but it’s not the getting where the problem starts, it’s in the having.

I have no doubt that the idealization of marriage, enduring companionship, mutual love and respect are very strong desires for men, but as I stated in my love series, men love idealistically, whereas women’s love is rooted in opportunism. Women get very upset at this proposition because they tend to conflate an unrealistic desire for unconditional love with a love based on a man’s performance for her in order to earn  and keep it. It’s not that men expect some childish form of unconditional love, it’s that a man must continue to maintain that love through performing and meriting it – this is what I mean by women loving opportunistically.

Whether a man comes to terms with how women love them, they still want to get married because they believe in the dream. Despite all the risk, despite every red flag a woman waves, and even despite the bitter disaster of his previous marriages, men still want to be married – they desire the ideal union.

But what if as good as it gets is simply entertaining a succession of non-committed, non-exclusive relationships? In essence, a sustainable plate spinning until such time as a woman demands committed monogamy, and then she’s replaced with a new plate and the cycle continues. I’m sure this would seem manipulative and horribly selfish to women, and furthermore it might contradict what I’ve just written about men’s general want for marriage (or at least an idealized union), but contrast this perpetual plate spinning strategy with the perspective extremes of both the raw deal men and women I mentioned in Lu Bu and Dalrock’s posts.

Rather than a deliberate or unintentional “marriage strike” perhaps the direction we’re headed is a sustainable series of modular monogamy or perpetuated singleness? Maybe that’s as good as it gets?

121 comments

  1. I don’t even know where I’d like to see myself in the future. Yeah, I guess I’d like to get married one day but I feel that its mostly because I want children. And its not that I simply want them for myself but I have a soft spot for my dad who wants his name to be carried on. Plus, as I would get older myself it be nice to have a son/friend.

    I’ve thought of maybe just getting some girl pregnant but we’d have to have dual custody of some sort. I wonder if that would even work given the laws in our country. Plus, that idea wouldn’t even seem fit for my family. They’re a very traditionalist family and would like to see me married the conservative way. Maybe I should just go back to church and marry a girl there?

  2. Just had my GF tell me a story about one of her friends. The woman she told me about is pregnant. But is so overweight that you can’t tell. This woman’s friends have mentioned to her that she is, well, fat. Suggested to her that she should exercise. Join a gym etc etc.

    This woman’s response is that she has no desire or reason to lose the weight. Why? Because she knows that her husband won’t say anything about her size and won’t divorce her because he’s catholic.

    Yeah.

  3. To me the rational approach to a committed relationship is to be monogamish… you can have a strong emotional connection/narrative with a person but also acknowledge our biological realities.

    Women can run their dual sexual strategy, guys are transparent and open about who they are sleeping with… we all win right?

    Binary solutions like serial monogamous dating/marriage are just antiquated.

    Is plate spinning regarded as polyamory?

  4. Ya, I long ago discovered that I am very happy with serial monogamy leavened with bouts of parallel monogamy.

    While my intern buddies have harems of 4 to 7 girls, I just keep two living in my apartments, and that’s about as good as it gets for me.

    There will of course eventually be more rotation. I like the illusion of romance, and am pretty good at creating a strong love bubble, so this is a strategy that gives me what I like while limiting giving me what I don’t like.

  5. I think the solution is the continuing growth of Islam in the West and the return of polygyny. Islam’s regulated polygyny, where a man can have up to 4 wives, works better than the West’s unrealistic ideal of monogamy.

    Muslim polygyny is being practiced openly in the UK right now. In the US, it is still practiced quietly but is spreading and will eventually become an acknowledged social phenomenon that can provide an alternative to the post-feminist collapse of marriage as an institution.

    I know several Muslim men who have multiple partners in the US. They simply don’t register these relationships with the state as “marriages” but abide by Islamic custom privately. And they take care of all their kids with dignity and the women are delighted to be sharing a man they consider both an Alpha and a provider. And they all believe they are following God’s will to boot, so there is no sense of shame or illegitimacy to the arrangement.

    Islamic law also provides men the ability to divorce women with a simple verbal dismissal called talaq, whereas women must show cause to initiate divorce. This prevents a women from capriciously following her hypergamous impulses and destroying the family unit. The fact that most Muslim men do not initiate divorce even though it is incredibly easy for them shows that the system works. Men will stick with the marriage out of masculine loyalty, even though they can exit at will. The knowledge that men can divorce a wife immediately and/or take on other partners with ease keeps women incentivized to hold their man’s love and not push him too far with emotional abuse and histrionics. As I said, the system works.

    Sharia law is coming, my friends, and one day the manosphere will realize that this is actually a blessing.

  6. Exactly. Being reared with certain sets of programmed ‘values’ I never thought I would say it. It’s sad, really. Monogamy without marriage is a beautiful thing filled with enthusiastic love. I just read this out loud to a few women in the “I watch ‘Dancing with the Stars'” demographic, and I heard “but what woman wants that.” And there’s the rub… What man wants the lack of enthusiastic love in marriage?

    It’s too bad that all programming for a century has been against enthusiastic love (from a woman) in marriage.

    That’s where part of our team comes in and changes concepts. It’s a risk. It’s a trade off.

    A married man’s good deed (to his wife) rarely goes unpunished… This is beautifully demonstrated in the short audio clip found here

  7. But seriously, is this really sustainable as a long-term life strategy for most people? Plate spinning is fine in your twenties, thirties and forties – but in your seventies? Eighties?

    The reality is that sourcing and attracting a series of partners (concurrent or otherwise) takes time and application that for most men would be better spent in the accumulation of wealth and material security. Something, at some point, has to give.

    The manospheric refutation of modern marriage is rational and makes sense – but what is the real, workable, long-term alternative for modern men?

  8. “And they take care of all their kids with dignity and the women are delighted to be sharing a man they consider both an Alpha and a provider.”

    “Sharia law is coming, my friends, and one day the manosphere will realize that this is actually a blessing.”

    I’m pretty sure this is the reason that Habib is blowing himself up in a slim hope that pussy exists in an alternate dimension.

  9. “Never trust the advice of guys who aren’t getting laid”.

    I would trust the advice of guys who are getting laid…if it didn’t require some form of alcohol or birth control to make it happen. Now if you achieved it stone cold sober during the day or your hard work to achieve some sort of fame or power leads to it…that takes some props.

    Day game for me is a much better test than bar or night club game. It tests who you are when your mind and hers are working as clear and sober as they can.

    Women through their choices have made it more of a slam dunk to get laid in this day and age.

  10. As you dramatically increase the costs of marriage and continuously and very publicly erode the benefits, you will get less of it. Marriage is now so incredibly one sided as to be a man literally selling himself into slavery for the rest of his life – there is simply no other way to read it at this point. His master can decide at any point in the relationship, to sever all benefits while demanding all privilege at the point of a gun and the state will back her up. What sane man would advocate for this state of affairs?

    If I told women that the husband may divorce her at any time, keep all the assets, keep the children, unilaterally decide where she could live and if she could see the kids *at all*, AND I can force her into prostitution to pay me a monthly stipend set based on whatever I thought my monthly “need” was who would take this deal? Oh and of course I can throw her into prison and stick her with a criminal record whenever I want simply by saying “she hit me”.

    Such a skewed situation cannot be fixed. Yes Auntie Bertha stayed married for 250 years to your grandpa – so what – show me a millennial or X’er who is totally secure WITHOUT being a mob boss who could literally have his wife end up face down in a river somewhere with a phone call. Doesn’t happen in the real world. Feminists wanted marriage gone and a permanent distrust between men and women – mission accomplished. They did this because they were mad the football captain wouldn’t leave the pretty blonde and date them even after they got him drunk and lost their virginity to him on a night he doesn’t remember – boo hoo – all men are evil.

    When the dust settles on this chapter in history the lesson will be – the more power you give women, the less you control their sexuality and tingles, the faster the decline and the greater the fall of your civilization. If nothing else is learned from this time let it be that. Women should be tightly controlled if you like electricity and technology and society greater than a sod hut.

  11. Good post. I am in my 50s and have never been married and have dated women until the marry me or else ultimatum comes and then move on. I find women in their 40s and 50s unattractive so these days I mostly have a rotating soft harem of women in their 20s and early 30s for compensated dating. It is expensive but the caliber of these girls is pretty high.

  12. We’re in a fix. (1) Monogamy is the best way (not surefire, but the odds favor it) to rear kids who turn out OK. (2) Monogamy is now a raw deal for men.

    Maybe we could alter our DNA so kids don’t take so much darn much TLC. Just bury our eggs at the beach, like sea turtles.

  13. OK, I admit, I just had time to skim the article – which may mean that none of the following points are relevant, oh well, here I go anyway…

    1) Marriage needs to be about much more than just getting laid. If that’s the goal (sorry Christian Right), you’re fucked (pardon the pun). My advice, get out there and get your dick wet, you’re future wife will appreciate it.

    2) Hearing the truth of the “way the world really works”, especially for a man that married believing that they could leave the world of Game behind and create a true partnership, is like getting hit by a stun gun. It it truly such a shock that all you want to do is “rail” against it – fight it and deny it’s truth or existence. That is, until you start becoming aware of the real interactions with your wife, her language, her actions (your language and your actions).

    3) After become aware, especially if you were brought to this world through some shocking action by your wife (affair, separation, divorce) – then it like that scene in Stripes, where Bill Murray’s GF packs and walks out the door, and he left alone – he says to himself, laying on the floor “and then depression set in”. I think most Men will go through that type of reaction – it’s a complete and utter annihilation of your world and you thought it would turn out.

    4) After all those feelings run through (it can take as long as it takes), you come to the realization that, as it was before you got married, you once again are the single person that is responsible for your life, your happiness and your success. And at that stage, you are really ready to get back up on your feet and get on with your life.

    I personally believe Marriage can be a wonderful thing – I love/loved my (x)wife – she is the mother of my children and still a very important piece of my life. I don’t blame her and I’m over blaming myself for what happened during our Marriage. We were both just playing out a script – without knowing the true nature of “how the world really works”.

    (and I promise to read the full article – and adjust my comments accordingly)

  14. I’m calling it now, we’re going to see more and more defacto harems for alphas and serial monogamy for the betas. The rest will primarily end up incel resulting in some very nasty consequences along the lines of Sodini as this new paradigm grows.

  15. I never expected a full-blown *article* as a response, but thanks all the same, Rollo.

    I’d have to say that (for Alpha PUAs), the perpetual plate-spin *is* “as good as it gets”. For Alpha MGTOW (which you seem to be), the “dice roll of doom” seems to be the only way to father children and create a legacy. It seems a particularly precarious prospect if one is NOT a PUA/Game veteran like yourself, which is why I never advise it. You’re like the ideal that progeny-seeking MGTOW aspire to… even as ridiculously unattainable as that ideal generally is.

    The only thing I advise is Level Four MGTOW theory (http://www.mgtow.com/four-levels-of-mgtow/), with an eventual “Go Ghost” option. It seems hypocritical of me to do so (considering I already *have* kids from a previous marriage), but the world is over-populated as it is.

    The ideal I personally cling to (hope) is that one day I may be able to create a peaceful society of my own, where MGTOW will be welcomed with open arms, and new sons and daughters will be trained in “the Once Ways” (to borrow from “Dragonheart”). It’s what I work toward – an otherworldly goal that it would take common men three *lifetimes* to achieve. I figure I have about 20 years, max.

    At any rate, thanks for the reply. I appreciate it, Rollo.

  16. OK, read the whole thing – good read, didn’t necessarily change the comment I made above. I was thinking about this the other day – the contrast to my teens and early 20’s to that of my oldest son (that is turning 18 this Fall). Since he doesn’t know any better – a life before mobile phones, Facebook, texting, selfies, attention whoring, etc. – he doesn’t understand how I just shake my head in wonder at what he as to do.

    But, we’ve been talking about it – and told me the other day (after we had a fairly long chat about “girls”) that he used my “there’s nothing to fear” statement at one of his hangouts. I think he’s starting to see some of the truth of it – so he has the approach down, now it’s time to work on the “what happens when she starts shit testing you” stuff.

    But Rollo, I do have a request – because I struggle with how to talk to my 16 year old daughter about this whole thing. So, do me a favor (and any other father of a girl) and write an article about that. About navigating those waters. It’s easy with my sons – I somewhat understand what they are experiencing – but I really don’t have the same ability to “get inside the skin” of my daughter. I want her to be prepared, to be that 1%er. So help a brother out!

  17. Polygamy works really well for some folks, but horribly for others. In short, it’s great for Alpha males and women.

    But it leads to hundreds of thousands of excess males with no hope of a woman and no incentive for economic success. If they stay here on Earth, it’s endless poverty and celibacy as their betters have fun with their four wives.

    So the idea that you get 77 virgins upon blowing yourself up is the ideal religious incentive for such a society. No chance for a woman here (or probably even a job), but if you massacre a bunch of infidels, party time.

    It seems to work in the West only because it’s not common enough to change the overall gender dynamics.

    However, it might be better than the serial-monogamy quasi-harem divorce for fun and profit system we’re developing ourselves.

  18. Ehhh… just as you rightly condemn lazy generalizations about “marriage is always bad for all men,” so I’d dispute the notion that “all men really want to get married, it’s a no-brainer.”

    Some folks really do prefer solitude, and having others around only by specific choice, for specific reasons and limited duration. Their preferences are as valid as anyone’s.

  19. On more thought, mostly of the “high value women” variety…

    I’ve come to the conclusion there are only three special women in my life…

    My Mother, for giving birth to me.
    My (x)Wife for bearing my children
    My Daughter for, well, being from my genetic code

    All other woman (except for those I’m related to through direct lineage) for now and the foreseeable future are mere play things – to be enjoyed for my pleasure, when, where and if I choose.

  20. I can speak from a unique standpoint. I was married for 3 years (and together for 4.5), post-Red Pill, to a helluva woman. Game came easily in the marriage, in part because I selected a woman who was game “friendly” shall we say. We got along great.

    Yet being in my mid-30s, after (I felt) the relationship had run its course, I realized I missed plate-spinning. I could not in good faith reconcile it with my marriage to my wife. I ended the marriage, and although she was heartbroken, we ended it mutually and honorably and with no ill will. (I’m lucky I guess.) And no kids or property. It may sound twisted, but I’m proud of how I handled it.

    So here I sit, single. I’m not currently “getting laid” because I’m in the last stages of getting over the breakup. Personally I see my marriage as a LTR with paperwork, but that’s because we didn’t spend much money or effort on things like a ceremony or honeymoon (or even a ring).

    In short, I enjoyed the “comforts” of marriage, but missed the adventures of the single life. I believe there are other men who want marriage – to be a husband and a dad – but like you said many go in Pollyanna style.

    The bottom line is you gotta know what your objectives are, and then you gotta select the right woman.

    Two things work against men here: Popular culture sells lies, and female SMV generally peaks before male SMV.

  21. the bible was almost true..

    God create man, the envy Evil create women to corrupt god’s creation!

    As such, God spell a tantrum, so it doesn’t matter the million of websites who talks about this topic, the true is that once men recognize women as “evil inside” due their lack of any moral civil valours, they must understand that having kids with them is only to archive devil goal to continue to subdue GOD creation, to make im his slave and let him suffer or not be himself and finally giv’em another soul to the earth to be either a slave or another devilish Fe(ral)male.

    Today these evil creation gone berseck, thanks to the effeminated men, the corrupted system based on money (symbol taurus) and power.

    The only solution, today, is to have fun cheating on the devils creature and live our lives alone, in joy and freedom, without being slave of a corrupted societies, it doesn’t matter if you are a lucky one (like Rollo) or a PUA’s, at the very end of your life you’ll be alone, as you once was, you’ll die alone!

    My opinion is that if women really loves men and are their true natural partner in life, they never.. ever will do such things or makes things so hard to archive, and even in Rollo’s situation you may see he cannot be (HIMSELF) but he must obey in a way or in another, to what women expect from a man, your true iD, your ego, usually won’t fit in any woman for who you really are, since as he said before, women are hypergamic, is like to have a deal always, lifetime, and that is not living, is to abide to rules that are not yours just to archive what societies expect from his slaves, like you!

  22. I think one of the topics that doesnt’ get discussed is the tremendous amount of energy it takes to go out and chase tail all the time. I’m mid 30’s and i’m doing well for myself but heading out to happy hours and chasing women just doesn’t have the same appeal it once did. For one, i can’t take the hangovers anymore and two, there is just other stuff i’d rather be doing.

    You kind of get stuck in a hard place. You want to find a nice woman to settle down with but your red pill mind knows that’s rather unlikely.

    But still – i think people write off the sheer energy it takes to spin plates and chase ass.

  23. @Tampa:

    “I think one of the topics that doesnt’ get discussed is the tremendous amount of energy it takes to go out and chase tail all the time.”

    because women doesn’t really love men, if so, they will chase men as well! they will split the bill, they will come to pick you up at your home and so on.. every genuine relationship means a 50% share for each, who don’t do this is a manipulative person who wants somethings from you!
    love.. evol.. evil. Love is the magic spell women use to men to subdue them like slaves, as such, as a man in “LOVE” you must: ________ (write here whatever she wants)” for what? to get love back? lol love is for men, not for them! love is evil (you spell it evol right?) so as her slave you MUST subdue to her in any way to be entitled to her vagina!

    “I’m mid 30′s and i’m doing well for myself but heading out to happy hours and chasing women just doesn’t have the same appeal it once did.”

    Almost any man could say that, even those who has a lot of money got the same issues with women (just look at those billionaires who got divorced how much “love” their X ask in the divorces!)

    “You kind of get stuck in a hard place. You want to find a nice woman to settle down with but your red pill mind knows that’s rather unlikely.”

    because while you still are plugged in the fematrix, you know that there’s somethings wrong going on, well it’s time to break the adam’s chains and see the true reality of life: every man may get laid! even those ugly ones.. since pussy can be hired (no string attached) and if you really wish a kid, is better to hire a surrogate so NO ONE LEGALLY can kidnapp him(her) from your life, but the question is: do you really believe that your kids deserve to live in such corrupted evil societies? do you really believe that tomorrow will be a better world? to have an answer just look back in the centuries and see if today’s regular jones are in a better situations as before!

  24. I got cancer in my early 20s. I was a very religious guy, dating an even more religious chic. I thought I was going to die of the disease and I almost married this girl just so we could have sex without the guilt. Thankfully I didn’t die and I didn’t marry this chic. She cheated on me while I was going through chemo. We’re no longer together obviously, I’m alive and well and have been game aware for some time now.

    That prefaces my idea of marriage in that in my mind, it used to make sense to get married so I can have sex. After all, this is what’s beaten into you at church. The christian god wants you to trust him with your abstinence in that he provided you with the right partner, for the rest of your life. You will then, at least it’s what I expected then, have sex three times a day, every day. No pressure for the christian ladies, huh?

    Needless to say, I am no longer religious (for many more reasons than the whole sex thing) and sometimes I am even grateful that I got so sick that this chic would leave me at my worst (insert hypergamy doesn’t care if you’re dying of cancer).

    I am now in my 30s and the prospect of marriage, even with a strong game mindset, doesn’t appeal to me. If I need to have kids, I don’t need to be married. If I want a fuck buddy, I don’t need to be married. It seems to me that marriage definitely benefits women more than men in the Western hemisphere. Especially as a form of “life insurance” against health issues (health insurance via the husband), needs provision (via the husband), financial security post divorce (if it were to happen, via the husband). My parents have been married for 30 years but honestly, it would be better for them to not be together. They’ve both been miserable their whole lives. Mind you, my dad is a preacher. And my mom is a religious person as well.

    The idealized version of marriage sounds nice. But to Rollo’s point about realizing a man’s own SMV in their 30s, I’m gonna stick with spinning plates for at least the next 10 years. After that, perhaps spin fewer, larger pizza pans?

  25. Rollo, you hit the nail on the head here with the guy saying that spinning plates from 25-35 seems like the ‘ideal state.’ Kinda reminds me of Dalrock’s post, “If you found a unicorn, would you marry her?”

    I’m 26, and I have found a unicorn…same interests, intertwining life narrative, very family oriented girl, pretty, concerned with staying fit, likes a dominant man and admits it, etc.

    I love her a lot. But part of my head just keeps thinking about all of the pussy I’ll be missing out on for the next years. I’m just starting to come into my own w/ job, game, money, social circle, etc. to the point that hotter girls are coming into my range. It’s tempting, dammit.

    But if you get married at 28, then divorced 32 becuase you are unhaaaaapy in a few years about the fact that you missed out on hot ass and your wife isn’t giving it to you (as much) as you want it, aren’t you as bad as the unhaaaapy wife charachiture who divorces his Beta husband?

  26. “Love is the magic spell women use to men to subdue them like slaves, as such, as a man in “LOVE” you must:”

    You are probably thinking lust instead of love.

  27. “Women get very upset at this proposition [a woman’s love is based on opportunism] because they tend to conflate an unrealistic desire for unconditional love with a love based on a man’s performance for her in order to earn and keep it.”

    That doesn’t get all the way to it. I think women get upset at the proposition that their love is based on opportunism, i.e. what he does for her, because it reveals that her love for a man is conditional. This in turn causes her to confront the reality that she just might be as shallow and utilitarian as she accuses the men in her life of being.

  28. Aye Martel if you could just take a break from hammering on the Moors for a bit … you could maybes ask the sharia-fanboys just exactly what they thought the “Arab Spring ” and endless other post-Ottoman irruptions in the Sandy States was, and is, all about, if not “rich guys’ fat ghey sons gets to hump all a da wimminz, and yu don’t gots no wife, loser!”

    Smiting the infidels ain’t got nuttin’ to do with it.
    Classic “send all the young men, who might take us ( and our property) out, off to die in a ditch somewheres”. Check how the initial Tunisia business kicked off.
    For instance, if the Jews want to truly undermine the Noisy Neighbours, they ought to be disseminating “one man, one wife” propaganda LOL. Take those incestuous, nepotistic tribes down like ninepins, so it would (well it worked against the Celts .. (obviously no Jews involved. Italians, Christians, Normans, English, or something)).

  29. “Alpha fux,Beta Buxs” and “women are now comfortable in admitting the plan actually is to cash out of the SMP casino between 27-28 years of age and to take the beta provider schlub to the cleaners for future cash & prizes.”

    Rollo, I’m confused as hell. My main question is ….How do you know if you are the “A” guy or the “Beta Provider Schlub”? You said you didn’t have two dimes to rub together when you got with Mrs.Tomassi. Beating out guys with serious cash. So how does “Alpha Fux, Beta Buxs” play into that? Doesn’t that theory go out the window? I have a certain situation on my hands. 10 years later….

  30. I think women get upset at the proposition that their love is based on opportunism, i.e. what he does for her, because it reveals that her love for a man is conditional. This in turn causes her to confront the reality that she just might be as shallow and utilitarian as she accuses the men in her life of being.
    It’s moreso this, because this is the reaction I get every time I voice to my female friends that a man has to pay for whatever he wants from a woman, it’s not free. It’s not done out of the kind of love that people have for pets or children; it’s very much prostitutory in nature.

  31. @Furious
    “re: ‘Sharia law is coming, my friends, and one day the manosphere will realize that this is actually a blessing.’
    “I’m pretty sure this is the reason that Habib is blowing himself up in a slim hope that pussy exists in an alternate dimension.

    That started my day off with a smile. Thanks.

    @Rollo, “But what if as good as it gets is simply entertaining a succession of non-committed, non-exclusive relationships?”

    (a) it isn’t as good as it gets in that men of your calibre can take a risk on American family law but look at the bona fides – your background in behaviorism alone sets you in a whole different league than most people let alone would-be PUAs, … your audience are non-naturals, in some respects you report yourself to be non-natural … what I’ve notice is “naturals” burn out, … dealers, drop-outs and Oz … you didn’t burn out because you have something special … it’s special because most men don’t have it … that was a literally deliberately pedantic statement … you are a special case … I think many can learn from you, but going the distance you can go … no so sure, so (b) if it is as good as it gets, it is so because of (a) – most aren’t there.

    Since most cannot repeat your road, there will be adjusting. The adjusting is happening … the theorizing / predicting will be interesting, but the shape things are taking is already entirely non-linear, so most forecasts will be threads, no one can tell the final tapestry. “Collapse” is far less likely than rumored here or elsewhere … those talking up collapse are like swimmers trying to surf and waves are the economy and their muscle memory is their understanding of it … they just don’t get how it works – they are swimmers not surfers (!) – those waves FEEL crazy, crazy big, and crazy big out of control, but taken on wave-terms and not swimmer-terms, they are far more secure than they feel, but can’t-surf swimmers can’t tell the difference between the waves – powerful and secure – and their feelings – weak and insecure.

    A caveat I would toss into detangling the question is to split it in two threads: blue bill isn’t going anywhere. Blue pill will retrench. So imagine this: blue bill retrenching and evolving, red pill living side by side with it. Both adjusting to the reality of “good as it gets”.

    With that in mind, forecast.

  32. @Case

    i would not laught since this is really what will be in the future, since marriage are dropping fast, the State usually helps single mothers and foreign people more than men (who even if they are single, they pay taxes to the wellfare to feed this situations) and kids out of the wedlock without a father are better suitors to archive different way of life, styles and doctrines (thanks goes to trash tv, junk music star etc etc) rather than those who are raised in a nuclear family with (write here your Nation) valours.

    and about Rollo, well the moment you have to abide to somethings just to have your fair share means you are conforming to it(her/him/whatever), and this means you are not free anymore (put here work, relationship, whatever)

    So Rollo has changed himself to deal with Mrs Tommasi and this means he must change/add somethings in his life, his iD, his ego, to PLEASE Mrs. Tommasi expectations in his man. this “new you” is not your true “you” is somethings different that you have to carry away all your life in order to maintain certain aspects of your life, exactly the same rules you must abide to any jobs!

    E.g:

    Someone gave you a Job and keep you hired as long as you do it in the right way (as he supposed to be) and to do it, you must impress him with a marvelous C.V.
    and if you don’t have the required skills, you must learn them fast as long as you want to maintain such work

    Even if we don’t like to work, we all know that we must work to earn money and sometimes we will be rewarded by our boss (it depends on the boss) with a high salary or benefits

    But the moment we just relax a bit or he found a better one, we are forced to prove we still are worth of that work in the company, otherwise we will be fired at will. (and back to poverty)

    Same with a woman, a woman give you the access to sexuality and his life as long as you are good in _____________(write here what she wants (mostly, everythings!)) and keep you as his husband as long as you do it in the right way (as she supposed to be) and to do it, you must impress her with a marvelous C.V.(Game) since if you don’t have the required skills, you must learn them fast as long as you want to maintain such woman.

    Even if we don’t like to be someone other than what we are, we usually are forced to comply to women expectation to archive fatherhood and sometimes we will be rewarded by our woman (it depends of our woman) with kids, sex, whatever.

    But the moment we just relax a bit or she found herself unhaAAAAaaapppyy, we are forced to prove we still are worth of our place in her family, otherwise we will be fired at will. (and take to the cleaner)

    the terrible true is that It doesn’t really matter if you learn game or you are an alpha to score any women you want,you are a loser, in a way or another, the whole situation is focused on HER, not on you, your truly YOU, iD, ego! doesn’t really matter AT ALL!

    You exist to abide to women rules, system rules, as a slave! if you not abide to such rules (being or become alpha, learning Game, whatever)
    you are not worth living, you don’t exist! you are invisible!

  33. I’m starting to agree with the hardcore MGTOW that even Game concepts serve the feminine imperative. Now men have to learn the Art of Seduction while women can just sit back, relax, and swim in thousands of Facebook likes everyday. I thought women were supposed to meet us halfway?

    And it doesn’t change the fact post red-pill that it’s still the Man’s Fault ™. Now it means he didn’t keep up his Game, thus he got what he deserved! (Nevermind that he’s the one to Initiate, Guide, Lead, and Maintain the whole romantic thing)

    Actually I’m starting to really appreciate my omega-ness since compared to the Betas I saved a huge amount of time, effort, and pedestalizations. I wasn’t so frustrated since there is barely anything to be frustrated about anymore.

    Of course I am the last person to give advice about Game but I couldn’t care less about whether I get laid or not. Instead I find it a worthwhile effort to lessen the overall pedestalization and investment in women so they will get off their high horses and start being realistic human beings for a change.

    You don’t need to teach Betas and Omegas Game. You just need them to close their wallets and cease orbiting. And that I also have authority to speak on the matter.

    I’ll also be around during the coming sexbot revolution distributing free custom linux “girfriend experience” kernels and how-to diagrams adapted to home 3D printers. Sexbots will be built in garages. Mark my words.

  34. It’s going to get much better with sexbots, but there are many factors paving the way for our option C.

    If we’re going with the assumption:

    Men are attracted to beauty.

    Women are attracted to status.

    Beauty is only valued because it is rare (in the natural world, although I’d beg to argue that irregularity and non-symmetry is very beautiful in their own way). But beauty can be manufactured, mass-produced.

    Get ANY woman, liposuction the hell out of her (and process the excess fat into biofuel … America, your source of energy is all but guaranteed, thanks to your overweight population!) then plastic surgery.

    Result? Instant. Bangable. Imagine, 100% of the women, bangable. That is paradise. Then add sexbots, then every man can have his own harem.

    We will live like kings. (Actually we all already do, our servants are just electronics).

    Ah, but it’s not so easy for the women. You see, while beauty isn’t a zero-sum game, Status definitely is. A man is attractive because he’s a leader. But being a leader means everybody else is a follower. So regardless of what we do, the only 20% of the [leading] men are attractive rate will always be in effect, the rest will remain invisible. And so women will continue to complain where are all the good men.

  35. @all
    sorry for the O.T.

    @Omega4ever

    “I’ll also be around during the coming sexbot revolution distributing free custom linux “girfriend experience” kernels and how-to diagrams adapted to home 3D printers. Sexbots will be built in garages. Mark my words.”

    Fear not my fellow friend! you are damned right! and you know who will be the most entusiastic one who would help them out? Manginas! the slaves who are happy to help their masters, of course!

    “Alternatively, a women’s distro might do none of these things. But it would be worth the experiment, if enough people cared enough to try it. And I, for one, would wish it every success.”
    [Bruce Byfield is a computer journalist who writes regularly for Linux.com.]

    Source: http://archive09.linux.com/feature/119488

  36. @Omega4ever

    thanks to the civilization, forged by men through the ages from their hard works, inventions, from their tears, from their bloods, men have recognized women rights that belong to them, Alas, they went far above and beyond this concession, they went even against themselves, men have liberated women from the burden of laundry, from deadly animals, whatever, but they forgot to free themselves from being slaves of women!

  37. You know it’s not “Alpha(TM)” to say the book is published this month and not to publish it this month?:)))

  38. Men have been marrying, having children, and establishing families in every culture for thousands of years. It’s so universal that you could call establishing a family unit around themselves is a primal need of men.

    Gaming numerous women won’t satisfy that primal need, as it doesn’t produce a family. Getting married doesn’t either, as the modern marriage model is so broken as to all but guarantee it won’t produce a stable family.

    It isn’t an either/or choice–PUA vs modern marriage. The truth is neither will satisfy the primal urge for a man to create a family around himself, so there’s nothing wrong with being critical of BOTH approaches.

    — Never marry a woman over 30. —

  39. The optimal strategy depends on the quality of the women in question, I would think.

    If most women cannot honor even simple commitments and do not have a lot to offer a good man, well, what the fuck is the point in committing to her? It’s a stupid decision.

    Most women I meet fall under this category. They are extremely confrontational in any dispute, they cannot cook, they cannot clean, they are smug and superior, unmotivated, adversarial to men, etc. Many of them have extremely high and shallow standards in men and many of them have cheated in the recent pasts or behave inappropriately in other ways.

    They simply do not offer anything of value besides sexuality.

    What really struck me in this post was this:

    any Game I do run has long passed the point of being a very uncomplicated subconscious part of who I am

    This is my experience entirely, though you will have a lot more experience than me, Rollo (I’m at 2.5 years LTR). Any game I need to run is simple. It just is not an issue. It’s dramatically less complicated than any other social situation I must endure.
    It’s true that if I sit on my ass and do nothing, she’ll probably get annoyed. That’s okay. She would get annoyed. I would hate myself for not doing anything.
    Self-motivation, very important.

  40. @Tampa said: “I think one of the topics that doesnt’ get discussed is the tremendous amount of energy it takes to go out and chase tail all the time.”

    And, all that wasted energy and time robs you of the ability to do something meaningful with your life.

    For centuries the legacy of most men was their children. Even the humblest of men could count on being remembered after their death by 2-3 generations of descendants, and in that they found meaning in life.

    What meaning is there in being remembered as the guy that knocked up Mom in a one night stand, or as Mom’s ex-husband who you only saw every other weekend growing up?

    It almost seems as if modern society has conspired against men to ensure they will spend their final days wondering “what was it all for; did my life have any meaning at all?”

    — Never marry a woman over 30. —

  41. Yeah, you go on with that sexbot plan. Leaves me with a larger, more desperate market, if such a thing can exist compared to today. Billions of betas, gammas and maybe even a stray alpha, all dumping their useless seed into a machine, much as they dump their labor today into the political maching that eats their lunch and breaks their souls. Perfect, I say.

    Marriage itself is pointless, except for having kids, which is the standard out used by men here. Great, have kids, but know that you will be sexless or nearly so until they’re out of the house, if you are the normal alpha-becomes-beta guy, which most will in fact become.

    I am married, in theory, and I warn you all away from it. I am mostly a natural alpha, and even that wasn’t good enough to sustain the long haul. My mistake for poor selection, yes, and her mistake as well thinking that I would put up with her asexual crap. That said, even at 46 I am attracting 21-26 year old hot broads when I go out. So yeah, don’t get married, and by all means get that sexbot thing into production. Since young hot things are pursuing me now, I can imagine nothing but even better success in your future world.

  42. “It almost seems as if modern society has conspired against men to ensure they will spend their final days wondering “what was it all for; did my life have any meaning at all?”

    There is nothing seeming about it…this was all planned.

    The break down of the family…you have to attack the man. He is the glue that holds it together.

    Break down the family…you have more people (single mothers) relying on the state…the state grows.

    Soon the state controls everything around and if you choose to not go that route the state takes you out.

  43. @Burninator

    “if you are the normal alpha-becomes-beta guy, which most will in fact become.”

    This statement hit pretty close to home – and my thought is that it is in fact, the reality for most men.

    I don’t know if I was true “alpha” or not, but I sure the hell became true beta after about 7/8 years of marriage and three kids – throw in an economic downturn – and WhaaLaa, you have a beta male working his ass off, carting the kids around, discarding his buddies until he has none (no golfing, hunting fishing for you sir, because that’s not fair), and a few too many “don’t rock the boat” moments later…perfect recipe for the making of a beta.

    Marriage, Kids, the Happy Family – few men come out of with money in their pocket and their balls in place – let alone they love, sex and wife it all started wtih.

  44. The sweet girlfriend becomes the nagging wife. The truth is, so many women know how they SHOULD behave. That’s why many will act nice and sweet while dating you. The they pull the old bait and switch. They know how they should act but CHOOSE not to.

    There are a few good women out there but you still have to be careful. The other thing you have to watch out for is a good woman who gradually, over time, changes for the worse. Why is it you rarely or almost never hear of a woman changing for the better after marriage?

    You have to ask yourself these questions not so you can live life worrying and paranoid over every woman that comes along. But you do have to protect yourself from the ones that are obviously bad news and also beware of the wolf in sheep’s clothing that pulls the good old bait and switch.

    Any man who wants to marry needs to spend at LEAST 3 years dating and observing the woman’s behavior before actually getting married. That’s IF he chooses to get married. There are a few good ones but you have to temper your optimism with a healthy skepticism and observe, and then observe some more and test the he11 out of your women to see if they are worthy of your commitment.

    No more caving in to ultimatums, gentlemen. An ultimatum suggest that she somehow has power over you. If she has power over you, you’re coming from a weak frame of mind, considering the fact that if you do commit, you’re offering/promising way more than she is and for a longer period of time regardless of whether the final outcome is positive or negative.

    YOU are holding all of the cards of value. All she can do is hope to bluff you out of what you already have, because her hand, in most cases, will be of lower value than yours. A woman of value will add something to the relationship. You still might have to ease her worries, because of her fear of being left alone now and until the day she dies. But it should be YOU easing HER worries. That you’re not going anywhere, even if there’s not a ring on her finger. But take your time…..The main point being, you shouldn’t be the one who’s worried. Even if she walked out tomorrow. Tomorrow is another day and there’s a lot of good in this world for you to enjoy.

    It doesn’t mean you can’t love a woman. It just mean you should never allow a woman to use your love as a tool to manipulate you.

  45. @Damien,
    I’m not laughing. (ahhh, insert winking emoticon here … that is, an emoticon that Roosh declares we “YOU SHALL NOT USE” … read with your strongest Gandolfian voice while you wave a staff).

    re, “the State usually helps single mothers and foreign people more than men (who even if they are single, they pay taxes to the wellfare to feed this situations)”

    …interesting you say that. Some part of me knew this reflexively, or instinctively, at least the first part … I’m not really convinced the state helps foreign people as much as you think, but as regards fathers … you get the sense that there is an inverse expectation going on, i.e.: “single mother? … we will help you and help you and help you” … versus, “single father?! … don’t you know you are supposed to work and pay child support! What are you doing suing for your custody rights?! The nerve. The audacity. How dare you try to take children from their mother? Oh … you earn 5X as she does AND you mean to use it to raise the kids and if they lived with her they’d be impoverished, under-parented and probably psychologically abused … well (with utmost reluctance) … ok, let’s talk about you having them half the time.”

    Anyway … point is – all the paraphrased quote above was a point someone else made once and it struck me, because I kind of had a feeling I’d end up there and no one would be there to help me and the government wouldn’t give a sh*t … so I had better the hell pull down a power-a$$ income while having a hyper-flexible job because that was IT. I. T. it. That was the ONLY card I had.

    I think a lot of men get this.

    That said … I saw some research awhile back basically proving there are gobsmacks of men out their raising their kids as single parents, in poverty.

    The point of the study … research, not an opinion piece, the POINT … was what you are saying: here are all these men, raising their kids alone without their mothers, in poverty, and pretty much there is nothing in place to support them. Government behaves like they don’t exist. “Oh, you are being raised by your dad? Sorry kid. He’s a privileged rich white male who bought lawyers and stole you from your mom, right? What? ‘Wrong?’ Ah, too bad anyway go kick dirt.”

    ok, nuf of that, re:

    “Someone gave you a Job and keep you hired as long as you do it in the right way (as he supposed to be) and to do it, you must impress him with a marvelous C.V. and if you don’t have the required skills, you must learn them fast as long as you want to maintain such work

    “Even if we don’t like to work, we all know that we must work to earn money and sometimes we will be rewarded by our boss (it depends on the boss) with a high salary or benefits But the moment we just relax a bit or he found a better one, we are forced to prove we still are worth of that work in the company, otherwise we will be fired at will. (and back to poverty)”

    … that’s right. Gotta say … a lot of people on the manosphere don’t really have a problem with that. I do. But a topic for another time and place.

    Peace.

  46. Rollo Tomassi-coined relationship ‘plate theory’ is heard (with a twist) this morning (Friday) ‘On-Air with Ryan Seacrest’ on KIIS-FM Los Angeles Hours later:8/30/2013 @7:22pm PDT NELLIE ANDREEVA REVEALS…
    Ryan Seacrest, Matchmaker

    Fox Greenlights Dating Competition Series Produced By Ryan Seacrest http://t.co/ZU13bSAbYa via @Deadline— Nikki Finke (@NikkiFinke) August 31, 2013

    ‘Dream Date’ is in production. It will be successful. Rollo’s coined ‘spinning plates’ attracts listeners. Aunt Giggles might enjoy watching Rollo’s ‘plate theory’ during the new ‘Dream Date’ reality television show… on the comfortable couch with her cat and a large bowl filled with delicious ice cream.

  47. The plan you outlined is what works for me–spinning plates until a woman demands monogamy. However, with all due respect, you missed something important: The “demand” for monogamy is an easy-to-pass shit test, particularly if the girl is already invested in you and really likes you.

    For example, about 6 days into my fling with my latest Primary (I consider myself polyamorous), she weasel-phrased the demand like this:

    “So, if I were to tell you that you have to be monogamous with me or I’d leave, what would you say?”

    My response:

    “Well, if you were to tell me that, I’d thank you for being an awesome part of my life, wish you well on your next journey, and leave.”

    I continued to sleep with her and other women (who she knew as well), and never heard another peep about monogamy.

    The Push for monogamy is just to see where they stand with you and what role you fill for them, they don’t actually want or expect you to say “yes” unless you’ve framed yourself as a potential Provider Husband.

    Just my two cents.

  48. Wow, what an ugly rebutt(hurt)al post by SSM, complete with chorus of angry hamsters and bitter betas. Every time I see a reaction like that by an erstwhile Red Pill Woman it just reinforces that there are no true Red Pill Women – only women who feel like right now they are Red Pill… until they are not, and then back, and then not again, and back againetc.

    Good to Deti, Rollo and others taking the time to try to straighten things out, but it probably won’t take. Because, Feminine Imperative. And feelings.

  49. This, from Tampa:

    I think one of the topics that doesnt’ get discussed is the tremendous amount of energy it takes to go out and chase tail all the time. I’m mid 30′s and i’m doing well for myself but heading out to happy hours and chasing women just doesn’t have the same appeal it once did. For one, i can’t take the hangovers anymore and two, there is just other stuff i’d rather be doing.
    You kind of get stuck in a hard place. You want to find a nice woman to settle down with but your red pill mind knows that’s rather unlikely.
    But still – i think people write off the sheer energy it takes to spin plates and chase ass.’

    There’s a real problem here. Plate spinning and the requisite tail-chasing it requires is tiring and time-consuming. And let’s be honest: while the fall-off of men’s SMV is a lot slower than women’s, fall-off it definitely does. What do you do when you’re 50-60+, and still out there chasing the pooosie paradise? It is the default in these discussions to say something like ‘Just be George Clooney. Be an alpha millionaire with options and you’ll never have problems getting laid.’ Well here’s a thing – it ain’t gonna happen like that for the vast majority of men who read these forums. I see hundreds of balding, fat, nasal-hirsute guys on the London Underground every day who are past their prime, and trust me, there’s not a cat in hell’s chance they’re putting down quality young snatch. While I accept that the myth of the lonely old man is just that – a myth (I have friends in their seventies who are unmarried and overjoyed that is the case) nevertheless, I think we need to consider more carefully the efficacy of game as a long-term life strategy. Read Michel;Houellebecq on this – as an older guy your options – generally speaking – start to dry up.

    So in truth MOST men are damned if they do, damned if they don’t – either get married to some sweet miss who whales up then turns harriden,be cuckolded ten years later and crucified by alimony payments for the rest of your life; or stay single, and spin a slowly-diminishing volume of increasingly cracked, gnarly and aging plates as you physically decline towards your inevitable and lonely demise.

    I am in my late thirties now and this is very much my mindset currently. I’m not interested in either marriage or (at this point) family, and at the the moment the plate-spinning is healthy, but I do often wonder how much longer I can get away with it for.

  50. -Welcome to the System
    (a marxism frame concepts game)

    OBJECTIVES

    1) destroy families
    2) destroy good old valours
    3) destroy cultures
    4) disrespects for human life
    5) create new needs
    6) create new valours
    7) create fake identities
    8) create fake valours among men to serve the system

    -WHOEVER CONTROL WOMEN, CONTROL MEN, SOCIETIES, NATION(S)
    (women as toll of the trade)

    Mike August 29th, 2013 at 2:03 am
    (1)(2)(3)”Binary solutions like serial monogamous dating/marriage are just antiquated.”

    xsplat August 29th, 2013 at 2:18 am
    (2)(3)(6)”Ya, I long ago discovered that I am very happy with serial monogamy leavened with bouts of parallel monogamy.”

    (2)(3)(4)(6)”While my intern buddies have harems of 4 to 7 girls, I just keep two living in my apartments, and that’s about as good as it gets for me.”

    (2)(3)(4)”There will of course eventually be more rotation. I like the illusion of romance, and am pretty good at creating a strong love bubble, so this is a strategy that gives me what I like while limiting giving me what I don’t like.”

    troyfrancispua August 29th, 2013 at 6:11 am
    (5)(6)(8)”The reality is that sourcing and attracting a series of partners (concurrent or otherwise) takes time and application that for most men would be better spent in the (((accumulation of wealth and material security)). Something, at some point, has to give”

    Aremo August 29th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    (1)(2)(3)(4)”As you dramatically increase the costs of marriage and continuously and very publicly erode the benefits, you will get less of it. Marriage is now so incredibly one sided as to be a man literally selling himself into slavery for the rest of his life – there is simply no other way to read it at this point.”

    Flip August 29th, 2013 at 9:37 am
    (1)(3)(5)”I find women in their 40s and 50s unattractive so these days I mostly have a rotating soft harem of women in their 20s and early 30s for compensated dating.”

    Yep It’s Me August 29th, 2013 at 10:38 am
    (1)(2)(3)”I personally believe Marriage can be a wonderful thing – I love/loved my (x)wife – she is the mother of my children and still a very important piece of my life. I don’t blame her and I’m over blaming myself for what happened during our Marriage. We were both just playing out a script – without knowing the true nature of “how the world really works”.(8)

    Martel August 29th, 2013 at 11:34 am
    (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(8)”Polygamy works really well for some folks, but horribly for others. In short, it’s great for Alpha males and women.But it leads to hundreds of thousands of excess males with no hope of a woman and no incentive for economic success. If they stay here on Earth, it’s endless poverty and celibacy as their betters have fun with their four wives.”

    Yep It’s Me August 29th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
    (1)(2)(3)(4)”All other woman (except for those I’m related to through direct lineage) for now and the foreseeable future are mere play things – to be enjoyed for my pleasure, when, where and if I choose.”

    Sam Spade August 29th, 2013 at 1:16 pm
    (2)(4)(6)”Two things work against men here: Popular culture sells lies, and female SMV generally peaks before male SMV.”

    Tampa August 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    (8)”I think one of the topics that doesnt’ get discussed is the tremendous amount of energy it takes to go out and chase tail all the time.”

    Intellectual Bro August 29th, 2013 at 4:50 pm
    (1)(2)(3)(4)”I love her a lot. But part of my head just keeps thinking about all of the pussy I’ll be missing out on for the next years. I’m just starting to come into my own w/ job, game, money, social circle, etc. to the point that hotter girls are coming into my range. It’s tempting, dammit.”

    Case August 29th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
    (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(8)”Since most cannot repeat your road, there will be adjusting. The adjusting is happening … the theorizing / predicting will be interesting, but the shape things are taking is already entirely non-linear, so most forecasts will be threads, no one can tell the final tapestry. “Collapse” is far less likely than rumored here or elsewhere … those talking up collapse are like swimmers trying to surf and waves are the economy and their muscle memory is their understanding of it … they just don’t get how it works – they are swimmers not surfers (!)”

    A Definite Beta Guy August 30th, 2013 at 10:19 am
    (1)(2)(3)”If most women cannot honor even simple commitments and do not have a lot to offer a good man, well, what the fuck is the point in committing to her? It’s a stupid decision..”

    earl August 30th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    (GOTCHA!)”There is nothing seeming about it…this was all planned.
    The break down of the family…you have to attack the man. He is the glue that holds it together.
    Break down the family…you have more people (single mothers) relying on the state…the state grows.
    Soon the state controls everything around and if you choose to not go that route the state takes you out.”(GOTCHA!)

    WOMEN SERVE THE SYSTEM WHO PROTECT’S THEM, AND SETS FRAMES FOR ANYTHINGS
    (we will rule men with an iron clit!)

    Mike August 29th, 2013 at 2:03 am
    (2)(3)(4)(5)”Women can run their dual sexual strategy, guys are transparent and open about who they are sleeping with… we all win right?”

    earl August 29th, 2013 at 7:29 am
    (2)(6)”Women through their choices have made it more of a slam dunk to get laid in this day and age.”

    Skott August 29th, 2013 at 1:38 am
    (2)(4)(6)”This woman’s response is that she has no desire or reason to lose the weight. Why? Because she knows that her husband won’t say anything about her size and won’t divorce her because he’s catholic.”

    troyfrancispua August 29th, 2013 at 6:11 am
    (2)(3)(4)(6)”But seriously, is this really sustainable as a long-term life strategy for most people? Plate spinning IS FINE in your twenties, thirties and forties – but in your seventies? Eighties?”(emphasis mine)

    Aremo August 29th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    (1)(2)(4)”His master can decide at any point in the relationship, to sever all benefits while demanding all privilege at the point of a gun and the state will back her up. What sane man would advocate for this state of affairs?”

    Nutz August 29th, 2013 at 10:56 am
    (2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(8)”I’m calling it now, we’re going to see more and more defacto harems for alphas and serial monogamy for the betas. The rest will primarily end up incel resulting in some very nasty consequences along the lines of Sodini as this new paradigm grows.”

    Sam Spade August 29th, 2013 at 1:16 pm
    (1)(2)(3)(4)”So here I sit, single. I’m not currently “getting laid” because I’m in the last stages of getting over the breakup. Personally I see my marriage as a LTR with paperwork, but that’s because we didn’t spend much money or effort on things like a ceremony or honeymoon (or even a ring).”

    deti August 29th, 2013 at 6:13 pm
    (5)(6)(8)“I think women get upset at the proposition that their love is based on opportunism, i.e. what he does for her, because it reveals that her love for a man is conditional. This in turn causes her to confront the reality that she just might be as shallow and utilitarian as she accuses the men in her life of being.”

    Omega 4Ever August 30th, 2013 at 3:00 am
    (4)(5)(8)”And it doesn’t change the fact post red-pill that it’s still the Man’s Fault ™. Now it means he didn’t keep up his Game, thus he got what he deserved! (Nevermind that he’s the one to Initiate, Guide, Lead, and Maintain the whole romantic thing)”

    A Definite Beta Guy August 30th, 2013 at 10:19 am
    (5)(8)”It’s true that if I sit on my ass and do nothing, she’ll probably get annoyed. That’s okay. She would get annoyed. I would hate myself for not doing anything. Self-motivation, very important.”

    Yep It’s Me August 30th, 2013 at 6:37 pm
    “I don’t know if I was true “alpha” or not, but I sure the hell became true beta after about 7/8 years of marriage and three kids – throw in an economic downturn – and WhaaLaa, you have a beta male working his ass off, carting the kids around, discarding his buddies until he has none (no golfing, hunting fishing for you sir, because that’s not fair), and a few too many “don’t rock the boat” moments later…perfect recipe for the making of a beta.”

    Aristippus August 31st, 2013 at 12:31 am
    (1)(2)(3)(4)”The sweet girlfriend becomes the nagging wife. The truth is, so many women know how they SHOULD behave. That’s why many will act nice and sweet while dating you. The they pull the old bait and switch. They know how they should act but CHOOSE not to.”

    -MEN ARE UNCONSCIOUS SLAVES
    (willing to understand and/or abide to System’s frames and rules)
    (blue or red pill? doesn’t matter, you are a loser anyway)

    Rhett August 29th, 2013 at 2:54 am
    (2)(3)(5)(6)”I think the solution is the continuing growth of Islam in the West and the return of polygyny. Islam’s regulated polygyny, where a man can have up to 4 wives, works better than the West’s unrealistic ideal of monogamy….” “Sharia law is coming, my friends, and one day the manosphere will realize that this is actually a blessing.”

    LiveFearless August 29th, 2013 at 3:26 am
    (1)(2)(6)”Exactly. Being reared with certain sets of programmed ‘values’ I never thought I would say it. It’s sad, really. Monogamy without marriage is a beautiful thing filled with enthusiastic love.”

    troyfrancispua August 29th, 2013 at 6:11 am
    (2)(8)”The manospheric refutation of modern marriage is rational and makes sense – but what is the real, workable, long-term alternative for modern men?”

    Emperor Lu Bu August 29th, 2013 at 11:01 am
    (2)(3)(4)(5)(6)(7)(8)”I’d have to say that (for Alpha PUAs), the perpetual plate-spin *is* “as good as it gets”. For Alpha MGTOW (which you seem to be), the “dice roll of doom” seems to be the only way to father children and create a legacy. It seems a particularly precarious prospect if one is NOT a PUA/Game veteran like yourself, which is why I never advise it. You’re like the ideal that progeny-seeking MGTOW aspire to… even as ridiculously unattainable as that ideal generally is.”

    (1)(2)(8)”The only thing I advise is Level Four MGTOW theory (http://www.mgtow.com/four-levels-of-mgtow/), with an eventual “Go Ghost” option. It seems hypocritical of me to do so (considering I already *have* kids from a previous marriage), but the world is over-populated as it is.”

    Yep It’s Me August 29th, 2013 at 11:24 am
    (2)(4)(6)”I think he’s starting to see some of the truth of it – so he has the approach down, now it’s time to work on the “what happens when she starts shit testing you” stuff.”
    (4)(6)(7)”But Rollo, I do have a request – because I struggle with how to talk to my 16 year old daughter about this whole thing. So, do me a favor (and any other father of a girl) and write an article about that. About navigating those waters. It’s easy with my sons – I somewhat understand what they are experiencing – but I really don’t have the same ability to “get inside the skin” of my daughter. I want her to be prepared, to be that 1%er. So help a brother out!”

    Tampa August 29th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
    (1)(2)(3)”You kind of get stuck in a hard place. You want to find a nice woman to settle down with but your red pill mind knows that’s rather unlikely.”

    thelatinbuddha August 29th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    (8)”That prefaces my idea of marriage in that in my mind, it used to make sense to get married so I can have sex. After all, this is what’s beaten into you at church. The christian god wants you to trust him with your abstinence in that he provided you with the right partner, for the rest of your life. You will then, at least it’s what I expected then, have sex three times a day, every day. No pressure for the christian ladies, huh?”

    Intellectual Bro August 29th, 2013 at 4:50 pm
    (1)(2)(3)(4)(5)”But if you get married at 28, then divorced 32 becuase you are unhaaaaapy in a few years about the fact that you missed out on hot ass and your wife isn’t giving it to you (as much) as you want it, aren’t you as bad as the unhaaaapy wife charachiture who divorces his Beta husband?”

    Confused August 29th, 2013 at 8:38 pm
    (2)(4)(7)”Rollo, I’m confused as hell. My main question is ….How do you know if you are the “A” guy or the “Beta Provider Schlub”? You said you didn’t have two dimes to rub together when you got with Mrs.Tomassi. Beating out guys with serious cash. So how does “Alpha Fux, Beta Buxs” play into that? Doesn’t that theory go out the window? I have a certain situation on my hands. 10 years later….”

    Case August 29th, 2013 at 11:46 pm
    (2)(3)(7)(8)”A caveat I would toss into detangling the question is to split it in two threads: blue bill isn’t going anywhere. Blue pill will retrench. So imagine this: blue bill retrenching and evolving, red pill living side by side with it. Both adjusting to the reality of “good as it gets. With that in mind, forecast.”

    Omega 4Ever August 30th, 2013 at 3:00 am
    “I’m starting to agree with the hardcore MGTOW that even Game concepts serve the feminine imperative. Now men have to learn the Art of Seduction while women can just sit back, relax, and swim in thousands of Facebook likes everyday. I thought women were supposed to meet us halfway?”

    8to12 August 30th, 2013 at 9:50 am
    (1)(2)(3)(6)(7)(8)”It isn’t an either/or choice–PUA vs modern marriage. The truth is neither will satisfy the primal urge for a man to create a family around himself, so there’s nothing wrong with being critical of BOTH approaches.”(GOTCHA!)

    8to12 August 30th, 2013 at 10:23 am
    “It almost seems as if modern society has conspired against men to ensure they will spend their final days wondering “what was it all for; did my life have any meaning at all?”(GOTCHA!)

  51. Naturally, I’m inclined to believe that there is something better, but I don’t say that while Panglossing over realities. It seems like both paths (everlasting plate spinning vs. marriage) have incredible challenges. Which one requires more skill, I’m not sure. Success in any form is going to come down to whether a person has the discipline to give each day, each hour, each moment, the best they possibly can. Best advice I ever heard: “Want better? Be better. Want exceptional? Be exceptional.”

  52. @Case August 31st, 2013 at 1:33 am

    “(omissis)..… I’m not really convinced the state helps foreign people as much as you think, ..(omissis)”

    Mark Minter, April 27th, 2013 at 8:06 am ,
    here:https://therationalmale.com/2013/04/26/fear-and-freedom/

    give a nice insight of the reasons why you should reconsider your point of view regarding what i said.

    let me copy&paste part of his post here:

    “So what this bill does is address many things, but declining birth rate and male “opting out” are the two key issues that we in the manosphere are concerned with. The United States has two key export sectors, Tech and Agriculture. Every thing else in this economy is a service between residents. It manufactures practically nothing that is not “tech based”. Everything else is just a store selling something manufactured somewhere else, or some glorified version of “selling each other pizzas”.

    So assume the future in a tech company, any tech company, from software to medical equipment:

    Female managers and immigrant tech workers.

    The thing that men did before in tech was what women could not, math, programming, research, systems. And now they are pulling in a cheaper version, non-residents on a visa tightrope.

    Some immigrants might wish to stay. Others are here to get “cred” and save cash before heading back to India or China or wherever. But either way, they are an exploitable work force in a way American men cannot be. They will be about 65% of the price of an equivalent American tech worker. And they dare not bitch. And if the economic numbers get crappy, ppof, they disappear and nobody cares. So the next “recession” will again be a “mancession” as the female managers show the “{immigrant men” to the door.

    Then on the flip side, the low wage, low skill side, there are 11 million Latino immigrants in this country that are going to have to stay on a 13 YEAR PATH, a 13 year path, to gain citizenship. A 13 YEAR path. So for 13 years they have to suck dick.

    They must register, the must undergo a criminal background check, they must pay a $2000 fine (probably in installments. (Which will pay for administration of this program, administered by American Latino women), they must learn English, ….

    and the biggie, the crusher for you and them, they must show “Proof of Employment”, meaning that they must show continuous employment, and that means they are entirely exploitable, will fearfully work their asses off for what ever money that they can get just to keep that “continuous employment”.

    “So when you think you wish to “tune in, turn on, and dropout”, the matriarchy thinks, “Yeah well fuck you. Go ahead. We got Badal from Bangalore and Niguel from Nogales.” And American men will never have the political coalition to stop them.

    Wait until Boomers start retiring, they are already are, every day 10,000 of them turn 65, and they need that pyramid underneath to pay that Social Security and Medicare money, AND ALL THAT POLITICAL SUPPORT GOES FOR IMMIGRATION.(emphasis mine) ”

    @Kate:

    Omega 4Ever August 30th, 2013 at 3:00 am
    “I’m starting to agree with the hardcore MGTOW that even Game concepts serve the feminine imperative. Now men have to learn the Art of Seduction while women can just sit back, relax, and swim in thousands of Facebook likes everyday. I thought women were supposed to meet us halfway?”

    No Omega, because as a man, ““Want better? Be better. Want exceptional? Be exceptional.”, while Kate and the wimmenz just sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!

  53. Marriage is serious business and requires some kind of “idealized mindset”. You will not enter into serious business with anyone when you know that “loyality” is not part of his persona. Noy you KNOW that about women. Still you are…married. After realizing the truth of how women operate, it is not WISE to marry. However, natural state of man is slavery so he moves in semi comatose state in this idealized fantasy.

    As far as you Rollo – again, it is clear that you are, were and always be… beta. Due to your past with BPD girl (no alpha would withstad such a mess for longer than a week) you might have been very weak in the time you met your wife. You chase her until she catched you..so you promised for life. Case af Rollo…closed. This hate against AFC in your blogs is actually the hate towards AFC in you that simply can not be removed.

    Now you know a lot more about women…you post are maybe the most sophisticated in manosphere now. But irrespective of all your post about, it is clear that your life CONTRADICS everything in your writings. War brides, Hyperagmy does not care….posts about utilitarian, harsh and cold nature of women . And who is the author – some eternal bachelor with his own life? Nope, married man that PROPOSED to one women “for life”. You, Minter, and majority of men are clear proof that natural state of man is slavery. It does not matter how much we know…men are simply unable to live without this pussy dose. Case of MEN..closed.

  54. @Damien

    I sure you were trying to make a point with your long comment – but for the life of me I can’t figure it out. Please explain further – you took a significant amount of time to create it, so wondering what it is.

    Also, I’d like to comment on SSM’s article – since she took the time create it and craft it based upon this article….We tend to talk in generalities, which then allow others to poke holes with specifics. Basically, we tend to point to things “in general” but everyone knows of a few “cases” that prove it wrong.

    And I agree with several comments here and other places – the internet is great place to create a wishful life for yourself – too bad real life has a tendency to be somewhat different.

  55. @Tin Man

    I am not a native speaker but I think he is saying that the marxist social engineers are successfully manipulating the way everyone thinks; even the supposedly red-pill men of this blog.

  56. MGHOW & Tin Man
    I echo Tin Man’s point. Damien needs to be a bit more articulate if its a broader point about social marxism as you say. Every acknowledgment if group dynamics and group realities is not a subscription to Marxism, such beliefs are the hallmark of 90 IQ points at worst and at best evidence that one didnt bother to read Das Kapital before self promoting to armchair political economist.

    Re: favoring immigrants for work … this is exposing a weak understanding of how markets work. The fault is not in the permission of low wage immigrants to have access to markets. The fault is in inequality of market access to both labor and capital and the semantic shell game of colluding free markets with free trade. It is the A+ in private capital and the never showed up for class in public markets. That isn’t evidence of knowledge of evil marxism, it is evidence of ignorance of market capitalism.

    Which I say not to criticize Damien but in hopes of being instructive. Please guys … everyone: do not preach one fucking word about Marxism until you have actually read the Wealth of Nations and David Riccardo … believe me in this … if you haven’t and you preach, it is bleeding obvious you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Disequality of market access by labor and capital allows capital to game the system which predictably it does, routinely. If capital can get the work in Chengdu or Bangalore then damnit that is what capital does. Since labor cannot reallocate to better paying shores, labor both stateside and overseas gets the screws. The idea that we fix this by locking out immigrants is pollyana bullshit peppered over often enough with nativism.

    There is a word for that: hubris

    I know economy scares you all and there is a need to feel as if you have the answer and if only the great powers would apply the answer you know all would be well. Doesn’t mean you have any answers.

    Good economics is an economics of the tribe: all who work, prosper, and everyone, so working, prospers together. If that passes for Marxism in your book go ahead, leave the tribe. Create your lone kingdom of prosperity and we’ll all come and kiss your ass.

  57. Yep for me that’s as good as it gets. I spin some plates for a time, find one I like and start dropping the other plates. When the remaining plate runs its course, I take a short break and repeats the process.

    Not an ideal solution in many ways but my age and divorce make it much easier. I have a son to carry on my father’s name, no one gives you the grow up and settle down speech when you’re divorced, though I sometimes get the tour still hurt/ bitter speech. It’s simply much easier to counter what other folks have to say on the topic when you are older, no some statistics and been through the grind of personal experience.

    I run all day game these days which seems to be a better fit for 42 year old man chatting up chicks in their 20’s early 30’s. I assume if my sex drive dies as I get older then I’m simply hire the occasional hooker. What happens when I’m 50,60 or 70 is a legitimate question, however I’ve solved my own problems for a couple of decades now, reckon I will come up with a suitable/ workable answer if the need arrives.

    While I do have some broad based plans for the future, I am not sue it’s wise to be overly concerned either.

  58. @Case – thanks for the simplified view of a very complex subject – and some suggestions on reading material to get more educated.

    @Ton – glad to hear you are making the system work. My belief is that once you have “secured” your lineage – especially if they are grown – there is much less need to have a single woman around – i.e. the wife. I find it laughable that any man, over the age of 40 (that already has kids) would find it logical or reasonable to get re-married. I guess if I was in need of a mother, but even then, hiring “for purpose” women (nurse, house cleaner, escort, hooker) would probably be cheaper over the long run – and cause less stress (which means you get to live longer and happier). Too bad there are plenty of broken-beta men willing to take on these women – and get into another situation of potential disaster.

  59. @Damien: Love is the magic spell women use to men to subdue them like slaves, as such, as a man in “LOVE” you must: ________ (write here whatever she wants)” for what?

    I like the MGTOW method of dealing with statements like this from women: reframe it thusly. “If you loved me, you would eat dog shit.” Yes indeed, cupcake.

    @thehumanscorch: It’s moreso this, because this is the reaction I get every time I voice to my female friends that a man has to pay for whatever he wants from a woman, it’s not free. It’s not done out of the kind of love that people have for pets or children; it’s very much prostitutory in nature.

    If this dynamic is happening then someone is not gaming (or even relating) to her properly. If she’s not giving it out for free, then take a close look at what is happening: anyone who starts with shit like flowers and the like has opened the door with the golddigger/prostitute dynamic, a door which cannot be easily closed (if at all).

    http://blackpoisonsoul.blogspot.co.nz/2013/07/anonymous-flowers-and-golddiggers.html

    With this dynamic, the frame is weak: his mentality is that she is the prize. Wrong! He is the quality man who is the prize, any woman who refuses to understand this is over-entitled and/or delusional and doesn’t get dated by quality guys. Even if a woman does date quality guys she will constantly test the boundaries of this frame. It’s reflexive.

    Once a man gets this solidly into his head, his dynamic with women will change. All of a sudden she will buy him gifts, an acknowledgement that he is of greater worth than she is. Effectively she is reversing the golddigger/prostitute dynamic in *his* favour, as she feels that she is so lowly in comparison that she attempts to buy *his* love on an ongoing basis.

    @Omega 4Ever: I’m starting to agree with the hardcore MGTOW that even Game concepts serve the feminine imperative. Now men have to learn the Art of Seduction while women can just sit back, relax, and swim in thousands of Facebook likes everyday. I thought women were supposed to meet us halfway?

    Correct, going Red-Pill gives women what they want: strong men (Alpha fucks combined with Beta bucks – even PUAs give them what they desire, pleasurable sex with plausible deniability and the chance to play the victim). The thousands of Facebook likes merely conditions their entitlement mentality and strengthens their hamster.

    Meeting halfway was the old system of dating, now-defunct. Many women don’t even leave “space” in their lives for a man to interact with them, then bitch about there not being any real men any more. It takes a PUA with balls of steel to get through the shield of indifference and distraction and 10+ groups of female friends that they’ve put up.

    @Burninator, @Yep It’s Me: As a former lesser Alpha I know exactly the dynamic that the two of you have gone through. Marriage Beta’s a man pretty quick – unless he’s the sort to naturally keep on fucking other women when married.

    @Aristippus: No more caving in to ultimatums, gentlemen. An ultimatum suggest that she somehow has power over you. @Rollo: In essence, a sustainable plate spinning until such time as a woman demands committed monogamy. @Flip: I am in my 50s and have never been married and have dated women until the marry me or else ultimatum.

    An ultimatum/demand is a last-resort shit-test by someone who has no power. Once she gets to this point she is putting all her chips regarding the relationship into the pot for the penultimate roll of the dice. In her mind it is a win-win situation, there is no downside for her.

    If she wins – the man gives in – she is euphoric and can go down the path of marriage, kids, and possibly the Eat-Pray-Love side-track. If she loses she gets to play the poor-little-me victim card to attract the next sucker, while at the same time trashing her ex-man all over the show.

    Far too many men do not realise this dynamic and fall into this simple trap – giving up all of their power for a fistful of sand. In EVERY case that an ultimatum occurs the man has vastly more power in the relationship than the woman. If it were otherwise the woman would have zero interest in making an ultimatum and would be looking for someone else.

    @Damien: thanks to the civilization, forged by men through the ages from their hard works, inventions, from their tears, from their bloods, men have recognized women rights that belong to them, Alas, they went far above and beyond this concession, they went even against themselves, men have liberated women from the burden of laundry, from deadly animals, whatever, but they forgot to free themselves from being slaves of women!

    Actually we have liberated ourselves from women, we simply haven’t realised it yet. IMV a lot of the thrashing and noise from women is to distract us so that we don’t realise this for as long as possible. Plus frantic upset that they’re in the process of losing their only current worth to men through their own (in)actions: that of dick-in-hole status. This looks to be where Red Pill women are coming from.

    Regarding “starter marriages”, this concept has been mainstream for a while now. It is a not-at-all-subtle statement of intent-to-theft for the even slightly-alert and aware. Anyone who hears cupcake and/or her friends talking about it is advised to dump and go spin another plate.

    @Rollo: Glad to know that I’m not the only one who has likened marriage/divorce to Russian Roulette. The difference from my point of view is that you start with 3 bullets +1 for every prior divorce that she’s had (the rate of divorce goes up for second and third marriages).

    Regarding as good as it gets: holy shit, I just realised something. Without consciously trying I have been spinning plates for the last two years. A little fitfully, given a workload from hell, yet there are currently two active, one recently self-broken, and four-five potentials in my life. All this while doing my own thing and basically not paying them a whole lot of attention.

    Am I going out much? Nope. I haven’t done much more than entertain with words. Certainly I haven’t spent anything more than minimal time and brainpower on these women. So, you don’t have to spend a ton of money or time on ’em, just do your own thing.

    Hardcore MGTOW doesn’t mean you can’t get laid, if less-frequently than the PUAs.

  60. @gregg said: “As far as you Rollo – again, it is clear that you are, were and always be… beta. Due to your past with BPD girl (no alpha would withstad such a mess for longer than a week) you might have been very weak in the time you met your wife. You chase her until she catched you..so you promised for life. Case af Rollo…closed.”

    Because, people never change; people never learn from their past or their mistakes. Not only is that an unfair criticism, it’s a sad commentary on your view of life that you don’t seem to believe people can change for the better.

    They say natural batters make the worst batting instructors. The best batting instructors are the guys that had to struggle to make it to the majors by learning everything about their craft–every trick and nuance there was–when it came to hitting a baseball.

  61. “The real measure of Game is only truly tested by how well it gets you laid.”

    “if you aren’t getting laid then your Game is untested and not as legitimate as someone who has put their own Game into successful practice.”

    Yep. In the oldschool community we had rules where you had to have successfully field tested your shit before you presented it to the community and then the rest of us would test it too. You didn’t come in with theories, or we would mock you and tell you to go field test it and then come back.

    A lot of people think I’m abrasive and an asshole when I write about game in the Manosphere but I just have a very black and white view of it: if you go out and get laid a lot, you will end up at the same conclusions the rest of us who’ve gone out and gotten laid a lot have come to. It’s that simple. That’s why when you ask a Natural how he games, he’ll naturally spout some stuff about how to get women that sounds like PUA game…because it all comes back to “what works”.

    I’ve said it numerous times: if the PUA community found out that you need a 6-pack and Ferrari to get hot girls, we would be the FIRST ones telling everyone to hit the gym and make some bank. But we’re out there stunting all over this social conditioning on the regular, and getting laid, so when some guy comes along ranting about how he KNOWS you need looks cause his buddy went to the bar and a girl said she liked his 6-pack and he had sex, all that does is tell me you don’t go out or if you DO go out, you don’t push your comfort zone and your game is weak.

    The reason I’m an asshole about this and won’t cut any KJ theorists any kind of slack on it, is because I don’t give a shit if you feel good or not. This isn’t The View, I’m not here to make everyone feel good and special and like they can spout bullshit wrong theories (because we have so much evidence that it’s wrong from the guys actually going out) and we’ll all cuddle and pat him on the head, anymore than I would cut someone slack if they said “I like to rape babies!” If someone posted that, then no, they don’t get to get coddled and made to feel like their opinion may carry some merit.

    They are wrong and I will call them out on it because giving out misinformation is what made half of us blue pill beta retards in the first place: society fed us a bunch of wrong information and we were taught to give everyone’s ideas merit and not tell them “no, dipshit, bringing her flowers and telling her she completes you ISN’T going to get you laid”.

    (I have no problem with either men who don’t get laid or women etc who give advice that DOES gel with the experience of guys who go out a lot and get laid…it’s when those people try to argue against what we teach that it’s like okay, well we have the combined anecdotal evidence of tens of thousands of PUAs over 10 years banging chicks left and right who disagree with you, so if you have a differing opinion then you better have a lay count in the thousands because otherwise STFU, we’re discussing reality not theory)

    “As I stated in Fidelity, I’m not anti-marriage, I’m anti- uninformed, pollyanna, shoulda’-saw-it-coming, ONEitis fueled, shame induced, bound for bankruptcy, scarred my children for life, hypergamy’s a bitch, marriage”

    Ya, this is pretty much the PUA outlook too. We aren’t against marriage, we’re against marriage for the wrong reasons (scarcity mindset, fear of being alone, caving to social pressure, etc).

    Tyler said it back in one of his earliest speeches: “I’m not against marriage, but for me wanting marriage in the past was a symbol of my own inadequacies. I wanted permanence. Guys who are good with women are not bothered by impermanence. You think some pimp dude can’t find a quality girl? That’s not a problem. His problem is he has all these girls calling and he’s trying to move on with his life.”

    And here’s Tyler at his buddy’s wedding talking about how they have different views on marriage but accept that about eachother:

    The point is that you make an informed decision about what YOU want and what’s best for YOU and YOUR goals, instead of allowing other people or society to dictate that for you…but most guys don’t even realize they HAVE a choice in all this or that they could have options that aren’t traditional, and we just want them to explore that a bit before they decide what they want.

    “From the extreme manosphere perspective marriage is akin to Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a 6 shot revolver”

    Personally as I found the Manosphere and MRA sites, I lean more towards this view for myself…I’m not against a serious LTR, who knows maybe I’ll even be alright with monogamy later in life if I meet a chick that blows my mind and all, and maybe I’ll want kids etc, but as it is right now in modern North America, the legal contract that is marriage, and the laws around divorce and family court, and the YOLO eat pray love societal encouragement for women to be flakey etc, it just seems like too big of a gamble for me to have any interest in it. If a guy does it, and he’s aware of the risks, man, I wish him the best and hope it works out, but I don’t want to roll those dice myself.

    “I have no doubt that the idealization of marriage, enduring companionship, mutual love and respect are very strong desires for men”

    It was for me, before I found pickup and actually had sex lol. I wanted the Disney dream entirely and visualized that as how my life would be. A lot of guys are that way when they come to the community.

    The problem is that reality steps in and shits on that and you have to either willingly blind yourself to reality and take the blue pill (and even lash out at red pill beliefs to re-enforce your decision etc), or you have to say “look I wish the world was like this, but it’s not, so I’m going to have to adapt to what’s in front of me and consider that my end goals may have to change into something that’s more realistic.”

    This is why I make fun of the guys who think their virgin EE foreign bride they’ll get someday is going to be “different”. Like her pussy magically works different and Hypergamy etc don’t apply to her. Those guys are just looking for a loophole in the reality they don’t want to accept is in front of them, instead of re-evaluating their world view and adapting. They’re the same as the blue pill guys, clinging to “but I don’t waaaaaant it to be like that!!!! 😦 :(”

    “But what if as good as it gets is simply entertaining a succession of non-committed, non-exclusive relationships?”

    Personally, I think this is the way things are heading. In my own life, I’m happiest with a Primary GF that I do all my relationshippy stuff with, and a couple Secondaries on the side for sex where I get sexual variety and my Primary can’t deny me sex and force me to be involuntarily celibate to control the relationship and I don’t develop a scarcity/needy mindset that makes her lose attraction for me, and the ability to hook up with randoms for sexual variety now and then (like while travelling for work or at a bachelor party or whatever) if it’s kept discreet from my Primary and I be safe about it and prioritize my Primary over them etc.

    Like so far I’ve found that this arrangement is the least drama and the most emotionally rewarding (in terms of all the girls in the arrangement are content with their place in it and appreciate the time they get with me) and avoids a lot of the issues that fuck up monogamous marriages.

    I think as more guys experiment with this kind of thing, they’ll feel the same way. It’s completely selfish sounding and society will hate on this setup, but if you can ignore that pressure to conform, it’s really a nice arrangement. There was one point where I had this harem setup in full glory, like each girl was perfect for her role etc and I remember closing my door after sending a Secondary home after banging her, walking back to my bedroom txting my Primary to wish her a lovey dovey goodnight, and collapsing on my bed thinking “man, I don’t know if I could ever be happier than I am right now.” That felt like it was as good as it gets right there, esp compared to everyone I know in traditional relationships who seem just constantly miserable or at best content but with no fire in their eyes anymore. Like Maher says:

    “These guys, they were mustangs. Did whatever they want whenever they want…but now…”

    I can think of MAYBE 2 modern relationships I’ve seen that seem fully functional and like “oh I can see the appeal in some of that” but even then it doesn’t compare to the harem setup to me. On the flip-side I can think of DOZENS and DOZENS of fucked up relationships around me lol

    “Rather than a deliberate or unintentional “marriage strike” perhaps the direction we’re headed is a sustainable series of modular monogamy or perpetuated singleness?”

    No homo but personally in my 20s-30s I would way rather move in with a good male buddy and be badass roommates partying and macking on girls and spinning plates together while we each work on our careers and hit the gym and play Xbox and shit, waaaaaay before I would get hitched and move in with a chick and become the generic guy Bill Burr describes here, which is what most of them look like to me:

    Like maybe at 40+, but in your 20s-30s? With game tech readily available to learn? And all the risks/downsides of modern monogamous commitment? Shit, it’s not even a debate to me lol

    How will this all work down the road for the human race? I don’t know. I mean in theory I may not reproduce if I get hit by a car at 35 or something VS the dude popping out kids at 22, which suggests that all this game stuff was a waste because I wouldn’t be filling my biological imperative or whatever.

    But I look at it like maybe we need a couple generations of dysfunction like this before the blue pill world finally has to acknowledge there are issues and men are unhappy, and maybe future generations will have marriage/family laws re-worked to offer some kind of reward/incentive to men. If my not reproducing means that down the road society adjusts things to make reproducing and fatherhood more beneficial to men (VS working them to death, giving their money to their ex-wife, and taking their children away so they can’t even raise them proper), well hey, personally I’m alright with that.

    …of course if I find out I’ve got a terminal disease and only 6 months to live or something the backup plan is to just go rawdog a hundred women and make as many me’s as possible lol

    Anyway, Leykis is kind of a douche but he makes a lot of good points lol

  62. Props @YaReally. Great as always. You do not know me, but I have followed yours and Rollo’s posts with interest for a while now.

    End of the day, if you marry, only do so if you know you can and will have strange on the side when it gets bad. It will get bad for 99.99% of you who do get married, I don’t care how alpha you are or think you are.

    Just like carrying a sidearm, only do it if you go in fully prepared to use it. If you don’t think you can (use the pistol, or have affairs), then walk away and don’t try it to begin with.

  63. “No homo but personally in my 20s-30s I would way rather move in with a good male buddy and be badass roommates partying and macking on girls and spinning plates together while we each work on our careers and hit the gym and play Xbox and shit, waaaaaay before I would get hitched and move in with a chick and become the generic guy Bill Burr describes here, which is what most of them look like to me:”

    If you simply don’t care what society thinks then your life improves exponentially. A lot of what guys do is for the benefit of the group because of duty and honor. There used to be some kind of give and take for this. If you contributed then you were at least supposed to be given some respect and status, however the game is rigged now. About the only way to win to do the exact opposite of what men are told to traditionally do. If you are a married man that lives a boring life for the sake of a family then you are viewed as a chump. Knowing that why would a man get married today? Because they are some sense of duty to a system that hates and uses them and/or they can’t get laid any other way or they are religious.

    Almost every guy I know is basically a loser and this makes me sad. I want to believe that this isn’t the norm. I think when you provide a fucked up template for people to follow you are going to end up with a majority of people that are simply just off. You can feel in your primal instincts that this is just wrong but you can’t put your finger on it.

    Even worse is the feeling when you realize all of this insanity is basically so that people with weak genetics can feel good about themselves. So that fat women can delude themselves at some level that they are just as valuable on a biological level to pretty women. So low T men can tell themselves that being short and effeminate is the new gold standard.

    “Like maybe at 40+, but in your 20s-30s? With game tech readily available to learn? And all the risks/downsides of modern monogamous commitment? Shit, it’s not even a debate to me lol”

    It’s funny how guys with options can flip the script of hold off to the last moment to get married like the careerist feminists do.

  64. As per the course, certain commenters feel themselves above the rest of us. Eye roll.

    @punk,

    A lot of people think I’m abrasive and an asshole when I write about game in the Manosphere but I just have a very black and white view of it:
    * Exactly. The world is not black and white. It’s gray. Black and white are constructs for understanding spectrums. They are not actual, literal, absolutes. They are a construct for guiding one’s understanding. Show me ONE spectrum in life that is literally black and white. It doesn’t exist. Yet, you run around hard-preaching to noobs the fictional black and white version of reality, when that is every bit as much a construct as that in which the blue-pill guys live. Grab a dictionary and look up “nuance.” It will serve your efforts at low-level proselytization. Also, learn this concept: disclaimer.

    “what works”.
    * Many methods work, game being one of them.

    The reason I’m an asshole about this and won’t cut any KJ theorists any kind of slack on it, is because I don’t give a shit if you feel good or not. This isn’t The View, I’m not here to make everyone feel good and special and like they can spout bullshit wrong theories (because we have so much evidence that it’s wrong from the guys actually going out) and we’ll all cuddle and pat him on the head, anymore than I would cut someone slack if they said “I like to rape babies!” If someone posted that, then no, they don’t get to get coddled and made to feel like their opinion may carry some merit.
    * You’re an asshole about it because it makes you feel big in an online community. So, please define for us all what definition by your standards carries some merit—a standard by which we can all also judge you, punk. We are all anonymous posters on blog forums. I’m quite sure that your “merit” carries no more weight than any of ours. This is the issue with you. You write through your AMOG frame as if that’s going to sway the community. It doesn’t. As far as I can tell, you are the living embodiment of the RattLife punk—a character I’m quite certain that the majority of the MS has NO desire to emulate, regardless of his (dubious) notch count.

    They are wrong and I will call them out on it because giving out misinformation is what made half of us blue pill beta retards in the first place:
    * You give out a lot of “black and white” misinformation that is equally dangerous. In your zeal to feel good about yourself in the MS, I’ve noticed, quite often, that you conveniently omit significant details from your experienced instructions. Who does this serve? Them? Or you?

    (I have no problem with either men who don’t get laid or women etc who give advice that DOES gel with the experience of guys who go out a lot and get laid…it’s when those people try to argue against what we teach that it’s like okay, well we have the combined anecdotal evidence of tens of thousands of PUAs over 10 years banging chicks left and right who disagree with you, so if you have a differing opinion then you better have a lay count in the thousands because otherwise STFU, we’re discussing reality not theory)
    * Most assertive. And we’re to believe you, why? Because you post blog comments? Please.

    Ya, this is pretty much the PUA outlook too. We aren’t against marriage, we’re against marriage for the wrong reasons (scarcity mindset, fear of being alone, caving to social pressure, etc).
    * Love how you incessantly identify yourself as being among “the PUA,” as “we.” Precious.

    And here’s Tyler at his buddy’s wedding talking about how they have different views on marriage but accept that about eachother:
    The point is that you make an informed decision about what YOU want and what’s best for YOU and YOUR goals, instead of allowing other people or society to dictate that for you…
    * Here, we agree.

    Personally as I found the Manosphere and MRA sites,
    * I’m curious, and I think many other readers are also curious: seeing as you are so pro-PUA—“we”, in fact, and NOT on board with the MS—why the fuck do you frequent this community? Why not just stick to the RSD forum? I’m quite certain that no one in the MS ever requested that you come here to enlighten us with your scripted template bullshit. This is a sincere question: what do you aspire to accomplish here? You’ve posted enough RSD videos in the MS, that any male who might be attracted to the RSD message should have already SCOURED the internet for every fucking RSD video ever posted, digested them, and put them into practice. If they’re not willing to do that for themselves, then why do you continue to ceaselessly waste your energy on them, and subject us to your antics? If those males are serious about pulling based on RSD videos, they would have already watched every single one of them, and they wouldn’t be waiting around for you to post them second-hand in the MS. Personally, years ago, I took a look at RSD. Solid (overpriced) shit, but it would never work for my style. BUT IF IT WOULD, I would have long ago devoured every single bit of their content, and put it into practice. I understand the males that RSD works for—good for them. GO STUDY THAT SHIT, AND PUT IT INTO PRACTICE!! I don’t see how inflicting RSD graffiti on the MS is going to help those guys. Either they want to learn it, or they don’t. Endless linking to a commercial site on non-commercial blogs is not going to help those guys who will never get off of their asses and be an actor in their own life. Ya, do you have anything original to offer, like, from your OWN life? Or is your life merely a carbon copy of Tyler? Given your dependence upon posting RSD videos to bolster your position, it’s a fair question, I think.

    A lot of guys are that way when they come to the community.
    * It seems odd to me for you to make a statement like this. You perpetually distance yourself from the community, as being above us because you are a field-tested PUA, and yet you perpetually engage yourself in the MS. Which is it? You can have both, if you are able to successfully internally merge the two. If not, if you continue to serve as an agent of division, you cannot have both, by definition.

    The problem is that reality steps in and shits on that and you have to either willingly blind yourself to reality and take the blue pill (and even lash out at red pill beliefs to re-enforce your decision etc), or you have to say “look I wish the world was like this, but it’s not, so I’m going to have to adapt to what’s in front of me and consider that my end goals may have to change into something that’s more realistic.”
    * This is YOUR reality, but not necessarily the reality of the tens of thousands of other males in the MS. Thank you for sharing your personal experience. We all learn from it. But it’s NOT dispositive for the rest of us. Please get that.

    Like Maher says:
    * Nice reference. You do know that Maher is homosexual. Jeez, I can’t believe you’re quoting that tart.

    I can think of MAYBE 2 modern relationships I’ve seen that seem fully functional and like “oh I can see the appeal in some of that” but even then it doesn’t compare to the harem setup to me. On the flip-side I can think of DOZENS and DOZENS of fucked up relationships around me lol
    * Speaks volumes about you, friend. I’m no supporter of marriage, but in my life, 90% of my friends’ marriages are sound. And yes, these are my boys, so they intimately share with me the TRUTH of their marital situations. I’m happy for them. The 10% who suffer, man that’s some hard shit to stomach. But only 2 relationships in your life that are functional? What kind of people do you hang with? (This is an often ignored facet of marriage stats—the quality of the people involved skews the curve to the right. Again, not advocating marriage, but one must inquisitively analyze stats, in any data set.)

    while we each work on our careers
    * Stop the presses. I’m quite certain that MANY times you have enthusiastically encouraged other males to NOT “work on their careers” because it doesn’t matter. Which is it, punk?

    Anyway, Leykis is kind of a douche but he makes a lot of good points lol
    * I’ve never listened to Leykis, but nice parting snipe—your forte.

    * lol

  65. @avd
    “Show me ONE spectrum in life that is literally black and white. It doesn’t exist.”

    2 + 2 = 4. You can whine that you think maybe 3 + 5 could or should equal 4 but you would be wrong and I would call you out on being wrong.

    Gravity’s another one. You could tell me you think the air pushes us down to the Earth but I would rightly make fun of you for it lol

    “As far as I can tell, you are the living embodiment of the RattLife punk”

    Your entire post is all just attacking me personally because you can’t argue with the content I write. You’re the equivalent of a feminist discarding game because whoever wrote the article she read about Hypergamy didn’t have a PhD. They can’t debate the content so they try to discredit the person and hope no one listens to them. How many message boards have you whined about me on, now? If you don’t like my shit, skip my posts.

    “* You give out a lot of “black and white” misinformation that is equally dangerous.”

    Like what? Be specific and I’ll be happy to address whatever it is you think is dangerous misinformation. Please quote my posts when you do.

    “I’ve noticed, quite often, that you conveniently omit significant details from your experienced instructions”

    Lol my 20 page posts don’t have enough details? Okay then. What significant details do I quite often omit? Ask away.

    “And we’re to believe you, why?”

    Well you could simply go out and approach hot girls regularly, game mixed sets, try PUA exercises out for yourself for a few years, build a bunch of social circles of various types of people, do that all when you’re in good shape and dressed well, then do it all again after getting chubby and dressing down etc.

    …but it’s a lot easier to just follow me around the net with your e-rage lol

    I don’t even care that you do that, it doesn’t bother or upset me, it’s more that I feel bad Rollo’s comment section always ends up with one of your “I hate YaReally” rants following my comments. No one is reading your comment going “I’m sure glad he posted that, reading that was a good use of my time and I got a lot of value from it!”

    It’s like when your socially awkward weird friend follows you around and you have to be like “uhh sorry about my buddy here, he doesn’t get out much” and feel bad that other people at the party have to endure him.

    “and NOT on board with the MS—why the fuck do you frequent this community?”

    Oh I like the MS. Rollo and Heartiste write great articles, as do some of the other bloggers. But you guys don’t have enough experience with PUA to fully understand it, so I’m here to clear that stuff up and give details on it so you can better understand it instead of blindly claiming stuff like “ya those gay PUAs only know how to get one night stands and they all wear fuzzy hats” and embracing ignorance.

    My first post in the Manosphere was on Heartiste’s, where he was saying BradP’s Horse Girl opener doesn’t work. He didn’t understand how/why it works or how to apply it because he’s a red-pill/Manosphere guy, not a PUA, so I clarified the nuances (your fav word right?) of how to make it work etc to clear up the misinformation.

    Personally, I’ve found that PUA, Manosphere, MRA, and MGTOW all have a lot in common and SHOULD be working to understand eachother instead of insulting eachother or running around saying “don’t post your PUA shit here, we want to keep our head in the sands and keep acting like you guys are still running 2004 Mystery Method wearing fuzzy hats!!!”

    “Why not just stick to the RSD forum?”

    The guys there are already on their way to learning solid game skills. Manosphere guys are way behind the curve and I like to help other men get a better game skillset and understand women.

    “I’m quite certain that no one in the MS ever requested that you come here to enlighten us with your scripted template bullshit.”

    I don’t think anyone in the MS ever requested that you come to Rollo’s and Heartiste’s comment sections to waste a bunch of space with this non-value-giving e-Drama but that doesn’t seem to have stopped you either lol

    “what do you aspire to accomplish here?”

    Helping other men improve their understanding of social dynamics, women, game, and encouraging them to apply it.

    Scray over at Heartiste went from unconfident, unsure of himself, and not getting laid, to a social badass who enjoys going out and is actually getting pussy now, because of my posts helping him and his own efforts and dedication to the process:

    http://yareallyarchive.com/scray/

    You can think I’m a poopy-head, but I’m not here to win your approval, I’m here to help guys like him fix their lives. YOU’RE certainly not helping guys like him, so someone has to.

    “why do you continue to ceaselessly waste your energy on them, and subject us to your antics?”

    Because when I post, people write stuff like “Props @YaReally. Great as always” and thank me for posting and tell me my writing has helped them.

    “Solid (overpriced) shit,”

    They have hundreds of hours worth of free content on YouTube and on their forum and in articles and Tyler personally encourages people to pirate their old expensive DVD products.

    Don’t say stuff on the Internet that’s easy to prove false. It just makes you look willfully ignorant.

    “but it would never work for my style”

    I’m certain your style is fantastical and amazing. Please post about it so we can all learn from you. I would much rather read a post by you that gives value like that than more of this gay negative obsessed-with-me shit that doesn’t help anyone.

    So lets hear the “avd way”. We’re all ears.

    “I don’t see how inflicting RSD graffiti on the MS is going to help those guys”

    I link other companies too. RSD just happens to put out way more content than all the other companies, and they cover a wide range of subjects, and deliver clear explanations, so I link their relevant videos to expand on the conversation.

    Who does your “I hate YaReally” graffiti help?

    “Ya, do you have anything original to offer, like, from your OWN life?”

    I imagine that somewhere in my 50000 pages of writing I’ve probably mentioned one or two things from my own life. Feel free to search thru here and do your own research:

    http://yareallyarchive.com/

    I suggest typing stuff like “my life” and “my experience” and “personally” into the search engine.

    “Given your dependence upon posting RSD videos to bolster your position”

    I post any videos that are relevant from any company. You can keep saying I only post RSD stuff but again this is that thing where it’s easily proven false and you’re just looking like you revel in being ignorant.

    I would be happy to post your videos that explain game concepts in depth and that will help other men improve their lives. What’s the URL for them?

    “Thank you for sharing your personal experience. We all learn from it.”

    Wait so now you LIKE my posts? Make up your mind lol

    “You do know that Maher is homosexual”

    wait…are you NOT homosexual?? Are you sure? I’m pretty sure I saw you posting about trying giving head once…

    “I’m no supporter of marriage, but in my life, 90% of my friends’ marriages are sound”

    Ya, a lot of guys who’s wives/finances/GFs I’ve banged are convinced their relationship is sound.

    “I’m quite certain that MANY times you have enthusiastically encouraged other males to NOT “work on their careers””

    Then you’ll have no problem quoting where I’ve said that. I’ve told men not to expect their career to guarantee them pussy and I’ve told them they don’t need a good career to get pussy and I’ve told them that often men focusing on their careers work spend too much time working and not enough time socializing and approaching women…but I don’t tell men not to work on their careers.

    “Which is it, punk?”

    It really stings when you call me punk. Now I know how the bad guys in a Clint Eastwood movie feel!! Please stop!! No mas no mas!

    “I’ve never listened to Leykis, but nice parting snipe—your forte.”

    …I don’t even know what this means lol I don’t think Leykis is reading these comments and I’m pretty sure if you listened to him you’d go “wow this guy sounds like a douche” lol

    But I guess educating yourself on shit before you fly off the handle in a blind berzerker rage would be out of character for you. See what I did there? A parting snipe! Classic YaReally, what a dick lol

  66. @ furious ferret

    “funny how guys with options can flip the script of hold off to the last moment to get married like the careerist feminists do.”

    Again, there is no fundamental difference between a guy who´s spinning plates, waiting for the last/right moment to marriage/enslavement, the religious guy who marries in his twenties or PUA monkey-dancing for women loosing every bit of freedom, dignity and honour in the process (fucking married women, producing illegitimate bastards, etc). There is still this mantra – “I have to be recognized by women and I have to live/fuck/marry them, otherwise I am not the MAN. I will pay any prize for it – I will sell my very soul, If necessary, I will lie, cheat, monkey dance, project this “alpha vibe”..for it”. I AM IT! I am nothing but a tool for women.

    This is the reason for this mysterious “change” from single alpha into married beta. There si actually no change taking place! There is NO fundamental difference between alpha or beta. Both are slaves. Alpha si attractive, so he can use his options. Beta is not, so he has to withstand more shit from women, to have them in his life. But both NEED women. Both can not exist without women. Leave this “alpha” without women for a year or two. Then show him one chick. He would go berserk for her.

    Men that can be respected in this regard – dealings with women, can be counted by fingers of one hand. Due to my practice I dealt with hundreds of (single or married) We are not…ehm…”romantics” .. .we are fucking slaves and we even DO NOT RECOGNIZE it

    Now we have the knowledge necessary to unplugg, to cut through the chains and what is the result? We are using it to be better at “dancing for women and spinning plates” till it is the time to ..ehm..”tie the knot”. We are using it to better facilitate feminine imperative. The power of women over men is ENORMOUS.

  67. @gregg The power of women over men is ENORMOUS.

    Yes, but only in the same way that you could say the power of men over women is enormous. Desire for the opposite sex, and pair bonding are fundamantal human drives for both men and women – there’s no getting away from that.

    My take on the manosphere is not that we ‘cut through the chains’ of those basic components of our humanity: rather that we learn how to negotiate the sociological and psychic landscape in which we find ourselves – the feminine imperative, if you will – to our advantage.

  68. @gregg said: “Now we have the knowledge necessary to unplugg, to cut through the chains and what is the result? We are using it to be better at “dancing for women and spinning plates”…”

    You make an excellent point.

    The PUA, plate-spinners, and married men gaming their wives are all, at the end of the day, conforming their lives to the desires of women. None are really living their lives according to their own vision. They are contorting themselves into a shape that will be desirable to women.

    They are no more free than the beta, henpecked husband is free.

    MGTOW are really the only ones that are following their own vision; who are actually free. Yes, it comes at a price, but the others mentioned above are also paying a price.

  69. All that looks good on paper, but who are you really doing it for?
    https://therationalmale.com/2013/07/18/crisis-of-motive/

    According to this logic any man who’s ever married in the history of humanity did so to appease a woman. Every success a guy may achieve, no matter how self-motivated, that in some way attracts a woman to him becomes his motivation for having achieved it.

    I could even make a case that even the most individualistic of MGTOW are only doing so in response to women’s motives and are thus doing their bidding.

    All you’re doing is painting the target around the arrow you just shot to get a bullseye.

  70. @punk

    Gravity’s another one. You could tell me you think the air pushes us down to the Earth but I would rightly make fun of you for it lol
    * Non-sequitur.

    If you don’t like my shit, skip my posts.
    * If only it were so simple. I routinely skip comments from those from whom I obtain zero value—it’s a necessity in the MS. However, you’ve had a corrosive effect on the MS since your arrival. Before your arrival, there existed minimal sniping and snarking and keyboard jockey AMOGing. I never commented back then, but rather, was content to simply read and digest the experiences of other males. Back then, reading the comments in the MS was a positive experience. Since you’ve introduced the above, the comments of the MS have become a very negative experience—a cesspool. I know I’m not the only one who’s taken note of this unfortunate development.

    Like what? Be specific and I’ll be happy to address whatever it is you think is dangerous misinformation.
    * I’ve already been specific, on multiple occasions, and you know exactly what I’m talking about. Frame collapse.

    Okay then. What significant details do I quite often omit? Ask away.
    * I’ve already called them out, on multiple occasions, and you know exactly what I’m talking about. Frame collapse.

    …but it’s a lot easier to just follow me around the net with your e-rage lol
    * Pretty sure you meant to type “it’s a lot easier for me to just follow you around the net with your e-pity lol”

    No one is reading your comment going “I’m sure glad he posted that, reading that was a good use of my time and I got a lot of value from it!”
    * Sure they are. A healthy percentage of the MS readership reads my comments and understands that while you may post some useful information which you frame in black and white terms, that in fact, your framed information is NOT dispositive in THEIR PARTICULAR lives, and then they make personal adjustments, accordingly. The omegas definitely don’t resonate with me, and I get that, and that’s perfectly fine. Luckily, they have you for that, punk.

    It’s like when your socially awkward weird friend follows you around and you have to be like “uhh sorry about my buddy here, he doesn’t get out much” and feel bad that other people at the party have to endure him.
    * Nice AMOG attempt. No one’s buying it.

    But you guys don’t have enough experience with PUA to fully understand it,
    * Right here, gentlemen.

    we want to keep our head in the sands and keep acting like you guys are still running 2004 Mystery Method wearing fuzzy hats!!!”
    * This is purely in your mind. Where does it actually happen? I NEVER see it. I think the MS at large acknowledges the benefits of studying PUA methods. However, MANY males in the MS simply find the PUA lifestyle not to their personal preference. That’s hardly the equivalent of keeping their heads in the sands. I haven’t seen in the MS derogatory claims of PUA “fuzzy hats” for at least 5 years. It seems that you are stuck in the past, chip on shoulder. Get over that.

    Manosphere guys are way behind the curve
    * Thanks for making my case. I suspect that if those “manosphere guys” agreed with you, they would have long ago migrated to PUA sites. Yet, they haven’t done that. They continue to read and contribute to the MS. I wonder why.

    I don’t think anyone in the MS ever requested that you come to Rollo’s and Heartiste’s comment sections * As I’ve posted multiple times: I only started posting to counter your caustic effect on the community. Before then, I was a content consumer of the content. When you began twisting the attitudes of the omegas in the community, I elected to step in and provide a counter balance for the community.

    You can think I’m a poopy-head,
    * I think you meant to type “punk.”

    so someone has to.
    * Uh, yeah. Hence the existence of Rollo, Heartiste, et al. Punk, you really should start your own blog. I’m being sincere about this. You have so much inside of you that you want to express and share with the world. Purchase a domain name, download WordPress, and go to town. The males who resonate with your message will FLOCK to your site. You can then still post in the MS on things of interest to you, but you’ll be able to really go into depth and post commercial videos on your own site, rather than on sites that belong to other males. I’m not being patronizing, I’m being serious. And for all the readers who hate avd, this would be good news for you also. Once the punk makes a graceful transition from the MS to his own site, the comments from avd should drop to practically zero.

    Because when I post, people write stuff like “Props @YaReally. Great as always” and thank me for posting and tell me my writing has helped them.
    * External validation, then.

    They have hundreds of hours worth of free content on YouTube and on their forum and in articles and Tyler personally encourages people to pirate their old expensive DVD products.
    Don’t say stuff on the Internet that’s easy to prove false. It just makes you look willfully ignorant.
    “but it would never work for my style”
    * You may well be correct about this. I must claim ignorance. I haven’t looked into RSD’s business practices for many years now. I’m not about to research your claim, but if it’s true, I stand corrected.

    I’m certain your style is fantastical and amazing. Please post about it so we can all learn from you.
    * Already posted elsewhere, and you know that. Frame collapse.

    of this gay negative obsessed-with-me shit that doesn’t help anyone.
    * I think you meant to type: “obsessed-with-the-quality-and-tone-of-the-MS”

    So lets hear the “avd way”. We’re all ears.
    * Already posted elsewhere, and you know that. Frame collapse.

    I link other companies too. RSD just happens to put out way more content than all the other companies, and they cover a wide range of subjects, and deliver clear explanations, so I link their relevant videos to expand on the conversation.
    * You do understand that one of the unspoken founding principles of the MS was to create a space where men could communicate without being incessantly prodded to purchase outrageously priced infoproducts and bootcamps? You get that, right? So, you incessantly dragging that commercial industry into a community where men have specifically chosen the open source version of game, could be seen by some as distasteful.

    I imagine that somewhere in my 50000 pages of writing I’ve probably mentioned one or two things from my own life.
    * Exactly. “One or two things” out of 50000 pages of writing. Again, thanks for making my case.

    You can keep saying I only post RSD stuff
    * You post predominately RSD videos.

    and you’re just looking like you revel in being ignorant.
    * Nice AMOG attempt. No one’s buying it.

    What’s the URL for them?
    * http://www.punkvideos.com

    Wait so now you LIKE my posts?
    * I personally derive zero value from your comments or videos. However, I can understand how many omegas might derive a great deal of value from them. That’s the only reason I haven’t gone nuclear on you. Because I see that you are, in fact, helping guys who need help. I applaud you for that.

    Make up your mind lol
    * Nice AMOG attempt. No one’s buying it.

    “You do know that Maher is homosexual”
    wait…are you NOT homosexual?? Are you sure? I’m pretty sure I saw you posting about trying giving head once…
    * Wow. Your willingness to expose your own lack of maturity and retreat to pathetic AMOG attempts is so very telling. And everyone sees it for what it is. Shameful.

    Ya, a lot of guys who’s wives/finances/GFs I’ve banged are convinced their relationship is sound.
    * Right, champ. My boys’ wives don’t go out to bars or clubs unescorted. I know these females, personally. I know the signals quite well. These females are accounted for (alpha). Quite sure that RattLife punks are not doing them on the side. Keep conditioning your brain with this if it helps you to sleep at night. And to the other males reading: the more you condition your brain with these concepts, the more you will attract them into your reality. Far better to condition your brain to deliver what it is that you actually desire in life. If that happens to be a faithful female, then make it so. Punk will tell you that you are doomed, that no matter what you do, your female is going to fuck a RattLife punk like him, on the side. This is a pretty black and white attitude toward life, wouldn’t you say? Guess what? Life is gray. You CAN push the stats in your favor, such that you do not fall into the statistical average of the great unwashed. (Reading Rollo is a good step in that direction.) Punk wants you to remain in the great unwashed, because that is where he can express his PUA power and receive the feedback of external validation, where you will thank him for his comments. Instead, consider rising above the statistical average of the great unwashed and begin setting YOUR OWN averages. It’s not easy, but it’s a lot better than living in punk’s reality.

    I’ve told men not to expect their career to guarantee them pussy and I’ve told them they don’t need a good career to get pussy and I’ve told them that often men focusing on their careers work spend too much time working and not enough time socializing and approaching women…but I don’t tell men not to work on their careers.
    * Deft back-peddle from your previous black and white presentations.

    Please stop!! No mas no mas!
    * Nope. You are now officially “punk.”

    before you fly off the handle in a blind berzerker rage would be out of character for you. See what I did there? A parting snipe! Classic YaReally, what a dick lol
    * Nice AMOG attempt. No one’s buying it.
    * Don’t you have any other shtick in your quiver? The same silliness time after time grows very stale. Hit me with something new, just to keep me on my toes, just to fulfill the duty of being a worthy adversary.

  71. @avd

    “I only started posting to counter your caustic effect on the community.”

    wait…you mean…you mean…I CREATED you??

    God I love your posts lol FRAME COLLAPSE. BOOM.

  72. Dream on, punk. Thanks for your brief (almost non-existent) reply. And have no illusions, the readership is monitoring this exchange. And they are making INFORMED decisons for the BETTERMENT of THEIR OWN lives… and good for them for that.

    PS-good frame attempt. No one’s buying it. Your AMOG schtick is finished in the MS, other than with the omegas who follow you. Now you will have to express yourself as an actual MALE, rather than via Tyler’s little AMOG tactics. Good luck expressing yourself without RSD videos. Pitiful frame collapse.

  73. Thank you. hahahaha fucking hilarious. Gentlemen, take note. This MS shit is about YOUR life, not someone else’s life. Incorporate game knowledge judiciously. (Can’t believe how easily punk folded with ‘lol’) — just pathetic, but it makes my point. This is about YOUR life.) Not some dipshit’s view of what your life should be, posting anonymously on the internet.

    Punk, please, give me one of your epic write-downs. Give me some material to work with.

  74. “This MS shit is about YOUR life, not someone else’s life.”
    “This is about YOUR life.) Not some dipshit’s view of what your life should be, posting anonymously on the internet.”

    Yes, I agree. That’s why I wrote exactly that in my post here:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/amog-tit-grab/#comment-463871

    Where I wrote fantastical quotes like: “The most important part of all of this is that these are YOUR personal standards, that are based on how YOU feel and what you want and what your goals in life are. I can’t give you the list of what your standards should be. No one else here can. There’s no “this standard is alpha, this standard is beta”, that’s all bullshit. “I don’t do it because it’s alpha, it’s alpha because I do it.””

    I’m glad to see you agree with my writing. I’ll have to assume you endorse the rest of my writing that you clearly haven’t read (this is that willful ignorance thing you do that I was talking about). 🙂

  75. Easy on YaReally. He doesn’t claim to be anything he is not.

    YaReally positively encourages bluepill men to move beyond an unfulfilling and suffocating lifestyle with his meticulous breakdown of game. He presents the tools without judgment on their use.

    Recognizing and utilizing those tools represents a first and necessary step for most men that produces concrete results. Immersion in hedonism remains a danger, but understanding the nature of women and romantic interaction inevitably leads to examination of other denied and uncomfortable truths.

  76. Burninator, marrying only if you know you can and will have strange on the side when it gets bad is a great way to ensure it will not go bad.

  77. Rollo, i just want to say that i literally love you.
    I discovered your blog two weeks ago an read it almost wholly since then.
    It’s in my opinion the best blog on Internet. It’s such a pleasure to read someone smart. I hope you the best succes with your book, you deserve fame.
    By the way, you have unplugged me completly. I am 26 years old and thanks to you my life trajectory gonna be probably way better. Thanks.

  78. @avd

    tl;dr

    You don’t pay me enough to read all of that. Really.

    Braska: The first step is often the most difficult. You have the advantage that you do not need to unlearn decades of habits.

  79. @ Anonymous Reader,

    I don’t pay you for dick, and never will, you sniveling omega chump. That should be short enough for your miniscule brain.

  80. You omegas reading these blogs are such unbelievable losers. I never even considered the depth of losertude that you inhabit, until punk pulled you all out from the woodwork. I rightly pity you, and your leader, punk. And what’s so strange about it is that I would be your champion in a normal world. However, you have chosen to align yourselves with disrespectful clowns like punk. And where has that delivered you? To being a big talker online? Good for you. How’s it helping you with getting your cock off on flesh and blood pussy? Probably, not so much. You follow big talkers because it makes you feel good, like a video game; not because it gets you laid. And then you come to the mansosphere to snipe and snark because it makes you feel better. But, really, all it does, is make you even more weak than when you first arrived. So sad. I pity you weaklings.

  81. rollo, i gotta say i love the new direction you’re taking with the blog. this open mic night concept is brilliant, cuz there’s some pure comedy gold here.

    and no pesky jumbotrons to filter out all the good shit.

  82. Rollo,

    Your articles are truly excellent and extremely important, and I am looking forward to year three and your book!

    And that comment by Sam Spade on August 29th, 2013 at 1:16 pm, which was an out-of-place gift to female bloggers, makes me doubt him and his blog.

    Supposedly, a man is good enough at Game to be able to maintain simultaneous sexual relationships with a changing set of several women (spinning plates), to keep any one woman from gaining too much leverage, as she would in a marriage. He puts in the considerable time and effort required to do this, even though he incurs the opportunity cost of not being able to do other enjoyable or profitable activities, because he doesn’t want to risk loosing everything through divorce.

    And then he finds that special snowflake who is so full of wonderfulness that she is worth risking everything that he has, including his liberty and even his life. So he marries her.

    But then he decides that he needs to have only other different pussy, even though it is all really, eventually, especially to an experienced PUA, exactly the same.

    So he divorces his devoted (and now heartbroken) wife, who is still just as full of the same wonderfulness that absolutely overwhelmed him before, to go back to spinning plates, because if he just had affairs on the side, she might find out, and become heartbroken (instead of alpha moist and tingly), and then divorce him. Does this make any sense to anybody?

    And then he says: “So here I sit, single. I’m not currently ‘getting laid’ because I’m in the last stages of getting over the breakup.”

    Why would he need to “get over” a breakup that he wanted and needed and thought through and did?

    A more believable scenario would be that a man divorces his wife in order to marry his “soul mate”, a woman who, for the time being at least, is willing to provide the emotional engagement that has been turned off by his wife.

    But that is not the case here, because the wife is still perfect, because the point of this story seems to be to get readers to think “oh, that poor innocent woman”, and thus move people from logic to emotion.

    YaReally,

    What you are providing is also extremely valuable! (And I have done a site download of your archive.)

    “@avd: ‘wait…you mean…you mean…I CREATED you??’ ”

    See, this is why it is so important to flush every time. Otherwise, the really smelly ones might crawl out.

  83. I for one like all the varying opinions and thoughts – it’s like the blind men describing the elephant from their point of view (pun not intended). There are some absolute truths and/or rules governing this whole area, but there is also lots of grey areas and nuances involved. What works for one person may not work for someone else – and what happened once may not ever happen again.

    I read somewhere out there about “luck” being involved – my belief is that luck is nothing more than having the ability to be aware of a situation, then acting on it, then taking these opportunities and running with them. Winning the lottery is luck – but you did have to take action to buy the ticket – you can only be in the right place at the right time if you get off your but to get in that place to begin with.

    I am one of those beta-husband (soon to be the ex husband) – in the process of reclaiming myself. It’s a tough road, and if you can learn some of these concepts, rules and methods beforehand, you can avoid having to learn things the hard way (sometimes experience is not the best teacher).

  84. Didn’t read all comments, but leaving the West is a good idea if you want to get married. Another strategy is to marry below your smv. If you are an eight and she is a six, I would be surprise if she ever thought she could upgrade to a nine. Remember women have to get remarried to complete the divorce fantasy. Of course marrying below your smv might be unpalatable to most men.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s