Reality vs. The Internet

As much as I’d love to read more Field Reports and follow ups (which I do agree are important) the simple fact of the matter is that you’re relying on whatever it is any one blogger or forum poster is telling you. I speak ‘manosphere’ very fluently. I could very easily go on the RSD boards, create a new identity, and fabricate a very believable story about how I managed a 4-Way with three HB 9 swimsuit models using using a direct approach or any number of PUA techniques. Once I posted, there’d be guys who’d virtually pat me on the back and ask how they could repeat it themselves because they want to believe it.

Then there’d also be another set who’d believe it, but take the faux-pity position and say I was wasting my life away in meaningless orgies with the ‘low quality’ centerfolds they wish their LTR girlfriends looked like.

And finally, there’d be the nonbelievers who’d accuse me of making it all up. Not because it was too fanciful a story, but rather they’d think all women are just smarter than to be suckered into an instant porn movie with a random guy – only to lose all faith in women in general after watching another home-made amateur porn video.

Legitimacy of experience vs. Online personae.

Even when PUA gurus go to the trouble of making as anonymous, and as inconspicuous as possible, videos of themselves showing their approach techniques, the first thing anyone says is it was staged. And unless he could someway get a camera secretly into his bedroom after the successful pull, there will still be an element that will think it was arranged, or there’ll be another element that say the girl is just a common slut so of course it worked.

Now as bad as all that sounds, I think Field Reports definitely have their place as field testing experiments, doubters or not. Just bear in mind, you will never filter out that situational bias. Observing a process will change that process.

What’s interesting is this constant, perceived conflict between “theorists” and “practitioners”. Honestly, I don’t believe you can separate them. All the tools a guy will have at his disposal to practice don’t amount to much if he doesn’t understand why those tool work in the first place. Similarly all the theory in the world is useless until you develop an application of it by trial and error. Now, add to all that the situational bias I just described – what do you tell an AFC who’s stuck on Matrix conditioning “try using negs” or “here’s why Negs work”? I’d say both of course, but which do you start with?

Wax On, Wax Off

If you’ve seen the original Karate Kid, where Mr. Miyagi teaches Daniel-San karate by having him wax his car you kind of see the disconnect here. Wax on, wax off; silly in premise, but useful in teaching. Here you have Daniel wanting to be able to fight, but for the moment his teacher seems like an exploitative fool, and he wonders if he’s been duped by an old man who doesn’t know shit about karate. That is until he puts it into practice.

Mr. Miyagi knows his shit, but Daniel has to take all that on faith; faith that Mr. Miyagi is who he claims to be, and possesses the experience he claims to have.

I am not a Guru, nor am I a Master Pick Up Artist, nor am I some motivational speaker, pastor or self-help psychologist. I’m a man with experience. What I write here is in the hopes that others can benefit from that experience and the insight that comes from sorting it out. When I can devise practices from those insights I’ll offer them, but understand that the validity of what anyone you have respect for professes or suggests you do, it’s still up to you to decide what works best for yourself and critically determine its veracity.

I can tell you, you can trust that I am who I say I am, but my experiences and how I relate them is how you can verify my own or anyone else’s perspectives. It’s exactly for this reason I take a hands-off approach to moderating my comments on this blog. I may sharply disagree with certain perspectives, but it’s more important to read them to know just what that commenter’s experience and/or legitimacy is.


36 responses to “Reality vs. The Internet

  • A.B. Dada

    One of the reasons I do 70% of my Internet writing/commenting/etc with my real name is specifically for reputation enhancement, i.e. “virtual social proof.”

    No woman can ever call me a cheat or a liar — it’s all there, public.

    No customer can ever say I’m offensive — it’s all there, public.

    When people don’t believe I am real or speak the truth, I invite them to hang out at one of my offices — it’s all there, public.

    Haters can hate, but if they’re anonymous, they’re doing nothing but strengthening my reputation for those who know me, have experienced that I don’t bullshit, and laugh with me when the haters come up (online or in person).

    Of course, the flip side to posting and commenting public is that people regularly try to overthink my actions or words to them — but as long as you stay one step ahead (with women or clients) and throw them curveballs frequently, it’s irrelevant.

  • King A (Matthew King)

    This is an important point: those with the best grasp on reality are not necessarily the ones who express themselves best online. In the absence of corroborating evidence outside one’s self-testimony, we must make our judgments based on tone — he sounds like he has been there and knows what he is talking about.

    But the more common mistake is to assume the zero-sum position: that if you are strong on theory, that is proof you are relatively weak on experience, and vice versa. So, rather than combining theory with practice — the highest achievement: a thinking man of action — the two principles are set against each other, separating PUAs into factions of thinkers and factions of doers.

    This the persistent bias of motherly love: if my son isn’t getting good grades, I can boost his esteem by calling him “street smart.” If my kid gets beat up for winning academic prizes, I can say those bullies are “just jealous.” All this dichotomy-born-of-maternal-compassion achieves is a bias planted early in life either against thinking or against action, lunkhead or nerd, beast or omega. It is no surprise then when former omegas over-correct on the beastly side (even on a cerebral medium like the internet!) assuming from mom’s wisdom that one must choose either/or.

    The man in full is Plato’s Guardian, the philosopher king, a renaissance man with equal parts attention to mind, soul, body, and spirit. Also known as, “alpha.” When PUAs list too much toward any of those poles, they must be corrected back to the golden mean. And since the PUA community is made up of omegas and betas shamed into self-correction, most of our work will be opposition in the name of the cardinal virtue of sophrosyne or temperantia.

    Practically this manifests itself as putting the braggart’s “field reports” into theoretical perspective, striking the proper balance between wisdom and action. If one has grown from a 99-pound weakling into a pick-up superman, he will shy away from his former weakness with irrational prejudice, quicker to condemn theory than is good for his own equilibrium. Hence the abrupt one-liners and shout downs, which, rather than making a case for action over thinking, instead reveal a man’s insecurity. A man in full should be equally comfortable in any realm. It is possible, despite what momma told you.

    Matt

  • doclove

    Well said. The only other thing I would add is that what works for one man will not always work for another man because they are two different men. Yes, the principles of seduction or GAME are the same and you must follow the principles, but eventually you must develop your own style of seduction or GAME in order for you to be successful just like you would if you were training in the fighting arts such as judo, boxing, karate, etc. Remember seduction or game is mostly and essentially an art with a large minority of scientific principles behind it and is not mostly science when you practice it just like the fighting arts.

  • Special K

    @ Doc:

    Xsplat just posted something to that effect on his blog.
    http://xsplat.wordpress.com/2012/08/12/why-pua-advice-is-often-wrong/

    @ Rollo. Quality as always. The really interesting part (for me at least) is when in-field results don’t hold up with what theory predicts. Like when a guy whom I consider to be a huge beta snakes a girl from me. Granted any social theory is probabilistic rather than deterministic, but it’s nice to have a framework that explains as many outliers as possible.

  • jimmy

    Very well put. Also – know thy self (which a lot of people don’t or have not yet achieved)- and knowing or arriving at the recipe for your own success. Learning and the process of bettering one’s self is a life long thing which never stops. Failure and reflection goes a long way to achieving success. The internet helps with the process of reflection.

    In regards to doubters – I find they don’t realize or want to believe what success looks like when they see it in the flesh (or read about it). When comparing themselves to another more successful person they hold the opinion they are personally better in some way and therefore doubt that the other, who is perceived to be less, can be on the right track.

  • Leap of a Beta

    I’ve actually found more success in posting field reports to my own blog than any PUA forums. I get more honest feedback from people and they doubt me less. They’re able to offer advice not only about ‘pick up skills’ but about lifestyle choices, personal health, etc.

    As far as haters, you’re right in that we’ll always have them. Easier just to ignore them.

    And as far as theory vs real life…. You can get a great grasp of theory from the internet, and I think its important that people should before they go out. While I don’t think a solid foundation in theory will offer any better immediate results, I think it will reap immense rewards in giving you a great base for self examination of any faults you had in your interactions. You’ll be able to see more clearly where you went wrong afterwards and then work better to correct the mistakes.

    Because if you don’t have the theory, you don’t know the mistake, so how would you be able to correct them? Thus why I don’t get the bashing of people working on their theory unless they’re obviously leading people astray and showing no desire to shape their ideas to reality based on experience.

    Aunt Giggles is actually a great example of this. She works solely on second, third, or fourth hand knowledge. Either from stories of others told to her, or studies that she reads that are based on individuals telling their stories. She doesn’t have any chance to test her theories, and is thus able to cherry pick ideas and thoughts that sound correct, nice, and fit her world view. And, without any chance for reality to smash it to little bitty pieces, she can keep doing so to her hearts content.

  • Rooster

    The first few months of my red pill existence were productive and mildly eye-opening but when I read the field reports and PUA advice from that time, I thought it was all wildly exaggerated but useful from a ‘positive mindset’ sort of way.
    Then more by accident than design I found myself out drinking one night with an old work buddy who had moved to the other side of the city a decade before. I didn’t discuss ‘game’ with him yet I was amazed when I found out that he and his friend were ‘naturals’, totally ignorant of the existence of the mano-sphere, game, mystery-method et. al.
    I stood in the busy bar slack-jawed as these two guys were asking female bar staff for kisses (on the lips) after four or five minutes of banter, and getting them. This was making female patrons intrigued and every twenty or so minutes, these guys were getting number and kiss closes all night, one after the other (which was fine by me as I was picking up the scraps). Some of these girls would be whining at me “please, please, please make sure your friend calls me…”.

    I woke up the next morning with a hangover but with also the firsthand experience of seeing how game ‘can’ work, with my own eyes. I was happy to catch a glimpse of what is possible with tight game (even game that’s so tight, the guys using it didn’t know they were using it)

    If you’re reading game blogs and thinking ‘yeah right!’ I suggest finding someone local to you, in your wider social circle who is a natural and going out with him for a night. It could really open your eyes.

  • Leap of a Beta

    @ AB
    While I don’t use my real name, I give out enough information that if someone actually wanted to find me, they could in probably 5-10 minutes of google searching.

    Like you, I’ve found it leads to a more honest discussion. Plus it just makes it so that I don’t have to deal with some of the ‘dual life’ issues I feel a large part of the ‘Sphere has to cope with because of their inability to be honest with who they are online while also being afraid of talking about this issues with the people they interact with offline as well. I don’t think it’s health to practice that much repression and avoidance.

  • Mike C

    Good post. There are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there. I think the more you read someone though you get a sense if they are for real. Rollo, I forget exactly when I first came across your writings…it was quite a number of years ago…but I quickly realized this was a guy who was writing from experience.

    I understand why some guys go the anonymity route. I don’t ever plan on running for political office so I don’t really give a shit. I write under my own name, and it would probably be pretty easy to find out exactly who I am. I think I have some “cred” and it is because I have always tried to be honest about who I am and what my experiences have been and what has worked and what hasn’t. I’ve never pretended to be some super player with a sky high N. I’m just a former beta AFC who managed to integrate some of the theory into day to day practice and come out with a better perspective that I try to pass along. I’m still a student and learning…we all are.

    I’m also involved in trading/investing and that divides pretty ferociously into camps of believers and non-believers…intrinsic value versus growth….charting works…no it is reading chicken entrails. I think the biggest bone of contention here often comes with the looks matter/looks don’t matter. Just my opinion, but for guys who either don’t want to improve their looks or really don’t have the room to improve them much it is very comforting to believe that looks don’t matter one bit. I think it is human nature to want to try and fit our beliefs to minimize any cognitive dissonance.

  • Mike C

    Leap,

    I’ll second your notion that their are armchair theorists of all stripes out there. In my view, there is simply no substitute for being out in the field and observing reality unfold. The time I spent bouncing was invaluable because I was able to observe stuff on a day to day basis. I think it is very easy to get lost in biased surveys, misinterpret data, and academic theories. It becomes even more problematic when you try to force all of that into a particular view that serves a particular agenda.

  • Leap of a Beta

    Agreed Mike. I also think that, as men, analyzing the data appeals a great deal to our strengths. Its very easy to start to enjoy simply reading the theories and data as an end in and of itself. These men enjoy being able to put the world in a box and see why they are failing, or make up stories about how they’re not, or reasons/excuses as to why they’re failing that shift the blame. Its much harder to go out and ‘simply’ take action after doing the reading.

    Even I have a hard time doing it sometimes as a young red pill man in his mid 20′s with nothing to lose and everything to gain. The growth is never ‘comfortable’ but has proven rewarding.

  • krauserpua

    In theory there’s no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

    Yogi Bear?

  • YaReally

    Non-gamers use this argument all the time. “it’s probably all made up I mean there’s entire communities dedicated to writing Twilight fan fiction!!”

    Here’s the low-down in field reports:

    1) there are hundreds of thousands of them. If you read a handful of field reports you are doing the equivalent of a scientist doing a survey of a handful of people. If you read thousands of them, you start to notice consistent patterns in them and the anomalies stand out more. It’s not issues with lingo, it’s issues with “the response that guy got was unusual and illogical, doesn’t follow PUA principles, and is different from the way girl’s responded in the other thousand reports I’ve read”

    2) they’re a supplement to going out, not a replacement for going out. When you go out, you run into similar situations as others do in their field reports. You gain first-hand experience of which reports make sense and align with the combination of the thousands of reports you’ve read combined with the thousands of interactions you’ve had in real life from going out in the field and testing things regularly.

    3) there are definitely fake reports as well as a lot of exaggeration in them in the quality of girls. Often there are important nuances left out as well (“this girl approache me” “what were you wearing” “a rainbow Mohawk” “fucking mention that then”). This is where you combine all the thousands of reports you’ve read and the consistent patterns you’ve noticed, plus combine your real life in-field experience, plus a healthy dose of skepticism, and then use that awesome thing called critical thinking.

    4) it seems unlikely that someone can remember an integration and conversation in the amount of detail that field reports often contain, but try it sometime. When you go out sober and are specifically paying attention to your interactions for the sake of learning and improving your game and noticing your sticking points, and you write the report when you get home, you’ll be surprised at how much your brain was actually capable of remembering.
    If you are a newbie to game, or don’t go out and regularly approach people, every field report will sound fake.

    Learning PUA is not a weekend of investment. It’s a years-long process. Whether that much work/effort/time is worth the end result is up to the individual but you don’t become a solid PUA by half-assing it.

    When you go out a lot it gets pretty easy to tell if a report is fake (ie – it doesn’t jive with all the experience and principles you’ve seen consistently in action over and over) and spot who’s a keyboard jockey. It also helps weed out hookers and strippers etc (girls who fake interest in you) as well as fake guys who are trying to subtly tool you or bullshit you because you can tell “there’s no logical reason for this person to give the ioi they just gave, I’ve done nothing that should stimulate that response”. This also translates into spotting easy lays and difficult lays quickly.

  • YaReally

    Also in situations where something DOES seem unusual, generally what happens (or at least used to happen before pickup went mainstream and we got a bunch of tards flooding into the community) is that the person who wrote the report is asked a bunch of questions from everyone, trying to figure out if there are details/nuances left out that would explain the unusual result (“she fucked me as soon as I said hello” “wtf? Where was she?” “in my audience when I was playing my guitar on stage”).

    On top of that, the more studious PUAs will go out and try to duplicate the situation a bunch of times to see if they can trigger the same results. This is where a lot of modern direct game came from…along the lines of “hey I didn’t use an opinion opener, I just said she was cute and I wanted to say hi” “no way that worked im gonna try it!! …holy shit everyone it worked!” “what?? I’m trying it too then! Wow it worked!” “maybe we don’t need opinion openers?” and a new little evolution in game happens.

    Then even MORE studious and analytical PUA types (the Tyler Durden level guys) try to break everything down into consistent principles to explain/teach why two seemingly opposing methods are producing the same result. This would be the stage where we figure out that both a stereotypical alpha jock and a stereotypical Johnny Depp intense artist are both alpha because of their frame control and beliefs and how they demonstrate those to women, not based on their looks or hobbies etc.

    Tyler was one of the most influential PUAs back in the day almost purely because he has an analytical mind and was putting together puzzle pieces other guys didn’t realize were connected, AND could explain why they fit together. Thus lots of his old posts were extremely long and in-depth.

    So ya, we have some ways to weed out a lot of fake reports. They just require effort and leaving your computer room. We even had a section back in the day dedicated to tactics/techniques where it was required that you tested a technique out 3+ times successfully before even posting about it. Then those would get tested by a ton of guys to weed out nuances or specific situations it only works in or label it as bullshit etc.

  • Michael of Charlotte

    Rollo,

    Not sure why you felt the need to post this. With the amount of blog posts alone, I’d be very surprised that you’re perpetrating so vast hoax on us hapless readers. Also, you’re words only cost me time so I’m free to ignore them if I like.

    From my perspective, Badger’s blog who I thought I found from you has given me tips on opening and field reports. I think I found Yohami’s blog because of you. He’s helped me tremendously with my inner game and the need to have many varied social connections. Once that was settled, I could only then truly embrace your outcome independence and begin spinning plates. Your post about having a look was telling and I’m working on my look. I’ve already noticed the approaches beginning much better. Your post, “You be the Boy” is where I direct blue pill guys.

    Heck, here’s a more direct one for you. You’ve mentioned SoSuave.com before. I went there, happened upon a thread that suggested not to text but to call. I called my version of an HB9.5 who was pleasantly surprised I didn’t text her for once and made good progress. In hindsight, it’s crystal clear because she and I have had some major miscommunications over text. But I never would have figured it out if you hadn’t mention the forum. I just need to build more comfort with her and I’m confident I’ll get her. But even if I don’t, she’s great practice for the next one.

    Your words are good man. So why the need to feel like you need to qualify your advice?

  • Mike C

    Michael,

    I didn’t take this post as “qualifying”. I think it had more to do with the debate on the Dry Spell comment thread. Anyways, I think the post is useful as a general warning about who to pay attention to on the Internet. I’ve seen examples of men in their 20s asking for advice on women from women in their 50s who have never approached a woman in their life because they’ve developed some Internet “cred” as Game knowledgeable.

    I’m sure Rollo can relate to this, but I”ve seen guys that look like stick figures trying to advise on weight training regimens. Absolutely ludicrous.

  • Leap of a Beta

    On top of what Mike C said, I also took away from the post that there is value in writing about your experiences honestly, despite the haters. That way you can get masculine feedback and find ways to improve yourself that you wouldn’t have simply thinking it through yourself. In that feedback you still have to practice the same awareness of falsity as the posts you read.

  • Mark Minter

    I never looked at this blog as valuable in its practical examples. The value of RationaleMale is in the academic nature and treatment of the topics. This is my favorite manosphere blog. The interpretation of academic Evo Psych ideas into real world knowledge is invaluable. I wish you would compile it all into a book. I would have a hard time even saying which things you have written are the most valuable. I guess, at least today, I would say “War Brides”,. “Hypergamy doesn’t care about your relational equity”, “Good Girls”. Today I have had that photo in my head of Kelly McGillis from Witness playing the Amish girl that goes after the alpha. It is the perfect photo to illustrate the idea of the good girl playing the betas that will jump on the alpha when the opportunity presents itself. How many of us have wasted out time on that kind of woman only to see her take an action like this. You have given me information to use to totally recalibrate or explain empirical observations I have seen over the course of my life. I had a rule that said if you don’t get that women into your bed on the first night, then there is an 80% chance it won’t happen and after the second then it jumps to 95% and after the third then you are at about 99%. So what you showed me is that if you’re not “the man”, the you’re not “the man”. She’s waiting for a better offer. Almost every major LTR, including my ex-wife, started with them literally jumping me on the first night.

    The articles you write are more valuable as higher values to create a real and functional paradigm to interpret reality and in justifying a lifestyle that uses Game than in offering specific approach tactics. I am evangelical about Red Pill having constructive effects in the lives of men and this blog is the one that I say “Begin here” when I tell people to learn about it. Even if a man never approached a woman using PUA, just to know the reality of women that one can learn from this blog will save many men from heartache, frustration, idiocy, and even financial ruin.

    If you never accomplish another thing in your life, this work here has had real value and impact on the lives of the men that have read you. You don’t need to defend yourself over anything ever again. Very few people will have had as important an affect on the lives of fellow men as you have and will continue to have. This is not a suck up. It is how I feel. And I don’t see a single ad or any other way that you get remuneration for doing so. I would think if there was some great manosphere convention and you were introduced, the applause would ring for quite a while.

  • Mike C

    Cosign what Mark wrote

  • 3rd Millenium Men

    “And finally, there’d be the nonbelievers who’d accuse me of making it all up.”

    That’s a funny thing about taking the red pill and entering the Matrix. You have way more insane experiences than 99% of the population would think possible. The things that other men could only dream or fantasize of. If I hadn’t seen the things I have, or done so many crazy things myself, I probably wouldn’t believe it either.

    “understand that the validity of what anyone you have respect for professes or suggests you do, it’s still up to you to decide what works best for yourself and critically determine its veracity”

    Spot on. Take what works for you and throw the rest away. But be open to trying and experimenting with new things you learn. If a person can learn something, chances are you can learn it too.

  • Jacquie

    I’m a mom with an adult son who just got out of a potentially destructive relationship. The more his dad and I read around the manosphere the more we saw what this young woman was doing to him. Talking to him about red pill was difficult since he was in very deep with her and talking LTR, but his dad did a great job finally reaching him. When giving him more information about how to avoid similar situations and what blogs to read this site was one of the first of a handful we made sure he bookmarked on his computer. (Therefore I should not say much more as he may very well be reading this comment.)
    But I did want to say thank you for the info and how you put it out there. I don’t agree with everything you say but enough that I could feel okay about my son learning from here, because, let’s face it, how many of us really listen to what our parents say? Parents are so old school.

  • Coy

    This is all just wierd if not outright crazy.But shortly after finding this blog i actually found a woman and an AFC(he’s a friend) showing all the behaviours outlined.I mean it was like the blog was being played out in front of me.long story short,my afc friend alienated me for a chick who went to her ex for a fuck all the while he didnt get any action.shes moved on now but he still does not know anything or why it jappened.So no doubs here.
    Btw rollo qualification is DLV.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Wow. I appreciate all the props, but honestly I wasn’t fishing for them by posting this. That probably sounds facetious now, but my intent was to bring to light that our online personas are what we’d have people believe they are, and I didn’t want anyone to think I was some notable exception to that.

    It’s like life is all ups and highs for everyone when you peruse their FaceBook profiles and check out all their vacation pictures. There’s such a disconnect from the reality of their lives, but I come to find that sooner or later that reality exposes itself in a blogger or commenter through what they relate over the course of time.

    I’m in the process of writing a very personal upcoming post and as I pick away at it I have to consider that what I’m putting down in terms of how readers will relate to it based on their perception of my online persona.

    For those interested, I am compiling a book as I come up on the 1 year mark for this blog.

    @Jacquie, stories like yours are why I’ll never monetize this blog, thanks.

  • Leap of a Beta

    Sweet deal Rollo. I honestly have no idea what the timeline is for editing, submitting, and publishing. Especially if you go the self publish/amazon route. When would we be able to expect it?

    I ask for purely selfish reasons. I wouldn’t be sad at all about buying your book to compliment Athol’s for my blue bill brother that just got engaged. Thank god he’s looking at an extended engagement time, get to feed him bits of wisdom over time from out of state.

  • Solo

    I agree and disagreee

    We have talked about this before on SS, and I will say this. Theory is great, and yes you need it.

    However it’s useless if you don’t know how to execute it. It’s useless if you don’t understand the concepts. Espeically to a guy who never has had success with women, or who doesn’t know how the concept works. Yes its motivional and inspiring but truth is 80% of theory is hogwash and doesn’t apply in field! I’ve gone out with tons of community guys Rollo and with most it’s the same. All they do is read theory, read books, read Pook, but they don’t know how to execute for shit! These guys are well versed in theory and know waaaaaaay more then I do but their still chicken shit to make a approach. Reading theory doesn’t mean squad if you don’t have the confidence to apply it. While Theory explains it, being out in the field shows it. To a guy like me posts such as “Be a Man” didn’t mean anything until after I had 1,000 approaches under my belt (a year in the field). I needed the experince to finnally understand what Pook was talking about. Before all it was just a pep talk now after having the experinced it, it made sense.

    When I first started posting FR’s with pics in them. I was one of the first to do it regualrly(before Phat Rabbit started posting vids and audio of himself). It wasn’t to show off(well not at first), but to be held accountable that I wasn’t writing “Duck Tales”. I wanted to become successfull, I was hungry, and the only way I knew that I would improve is putting myself out there. Of course I’m not gonna lie yeah getting the “e-props” was cool but I just wanted to show I was out there I didn’t wanna be known as a “KJ”. Guys lie, but how do I know that you or Pook don’t lie about who you are? If people think I lie about my FR’s so be it, I really could care less at this point in my life, getting laid isn’t a big deal. I started to experince some crazy stuff going out(heck even on my blog I still post some). Stuff that I knew no one would belive, the camera was proof of that not for some geezer online but for myself, so when I ever felt down. I can look back and say “I did this!”. I mean geeze how many guys would belive that I had a 3-some?, with two chicks I just met at that? who would belive that? of course me having a pic with the two girls on my twin sized bed(at the time it was twin sized heh) proved it not only that but my roommates brother was in the FR video as well confriming it(which sadly now is lost due to a Guru becoming obessed with me wanting me to join his “clan”). Sure its nice to have your ego stroked cause of a FR but the fact is, it helps me keep events of the night in line. I never lied about soemthing in field and not all my FR’s are tales of glory or epicness some are pretty ugly. Being honest is the reason why my readers love me, I’m not the greatest writer, and I’m a visualist. A picture or a video sometimes says more then a 1,000 words. I have nothing to gain from posting video footage or pics, and hell I’m even putting my real life rep on the line by exposing myself(some of my friends read my blogs and girls who know me in real life!) so for me to lie when I know that they could call me out and expose me would be silly, and damgaing to my “online persona” (lol at that).

    My point is without the “practitioner” the “theorists” would just be that a theorists. The Practitoner test the theories out and gives the theories creditabliity. Why do you think everyone still worships Mystery? he could type theory but even he went out (10,000 approaches brah) cause he knew if he didn’t test his theories people would deem him a fraud. Being out in the field use to mean something, now any Joe Smoe can start a blog and say how “Alpha” he is wihtout anything to back it up and BOOM he is a “Blog-Star”. I’m not just ranting off my ass off here. If you look at the Game world right now and see whats what. The manosphere is in the middle right now in terms of where the game is at SS is behind and there is a reason why RSD FR section is way ahead of the games-o-sphere period. So many guys are having success, the average guy there hits the field and test out their own theories not only that but the game is beyond just getting laid for some and now is starting to evolve to a lifestyle that is deeper then just getting puss i.e. guys building business that attract women make money etc. While the average sosuaver is worried about hitting up some POF skank.The difference between the forums/blogs etc and success is like night and day. One forum focuses more on testing out their theories in the field while another doesn’t, and it shows in the content.

    Just saying

  • GeishaKate

    “It’s like life is all ups and highs for everyone when you peruse their FaceBook profiles and check out all their vacation pictures. There’s such a disconnect from the reality of their lives, but I come to find that sooner or later that reality exposes itself in a blogger or commenter through what they relate over the course of time.”

    Online does tend to lend itself to the ability to create grandiose illusions, but those are more because of how a person perceives what they see than an attempt at such by the personality. We do the same things in real life: emphasize our best. It takes time in both worlds to get to know someone. One of the coolest things about online is that we are stripped of all external factors and interact as essences.

  • Tertullian

    Can’t we have at least one article where GeishaKate doesn’t post a comment? I mean c’mon…even A.B. Dada will take a break now and then. And this is supposed to be the manosphere, after all…

  • GeishaKate

    Sure. Sorry. It’ll have to be the next article, obviously.

  • Michael of Charlotte

    Ahh, I gotcha’ Mike C. I must admit, I haven’t been following that thread at all. I suppose that makes sense. Mark gave a much better response that I could so I’ll leave it at that.

    …and wait to buy Rollo’s book.

  • YaReally

    @Solo

    Agree completely with everything you wrote, including the assessment of the communities at the end.

    It’s hard for people now to understand how much field experience was stressed back in the underground days. Theorists (aka certain regular commenters in the manosphere who very clearly don’t go out) were laughed at if they didn’t rigorously test their controversial theories.

    Part of why I hit Heartiste and this blog is that both authors writing jives with game concepts. Even if they aren’t out in the field testing it, what they’re saying doesn’t contradict it.

  • Drak_ool

    Definitely agree that theory alone is useless. On the other hand, simply “doing it” (aka Naturals), without any theoretical basis, is fine as long as you are getting the girls you want.

    As far as posting FRs, I agree with you that you can always doubt the OP. Unless he posts videos of the pick up, then videos of the follow up, then videos of the bang, you will never know. Even just posting pics of the girls doesn’t mean much, I could be copying and pasting thousands of pics from chicks on facebook all day long.

    There is one aspect of the manosphere though that does contradict your premise: the simple fact that in each forum, there are so many KJs who NEVER post FRs, yet have 1,000+ posts totals. Obviously these guys spend a lot of time on the forums, yet they don’t feel the need to make up fake FRs. This gives me a certain level of trust in the posters who actually write up FRs, not to speak of the posters who maintain approach journals, something I was never able to accomplish myself over an extended period of time due to time constraints.

  • Fantasia

    Yup, with many PUA-type or conquest bragging posts I can barely get beyond the first paragraph because they usually reek of an exercise in creative writing as opposed to a real life experience. With many of them being impossible to verify as they are in, or claim to be in, some obscure or even mainstream spots far, far away from any chance encounter with their core Western audience.

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  • b-166er

    Fantasia
    August 18th, 2012 at 1:46 am
    Yup, with many PUA-type or conquest bragging posts I can barely get beyond the first paragraph because they usually reek of an exercise in creative writing as opposed to a real life experience.
    ——————————————————————————————

    In addition, don’t forget that to one extent or another, all blogs are “moderated”. Unless you’ve had a comment blocked and/or deleted, you have no idea what information is being withheld from you?

    The real world will always trump the web because of your lack of ability to control the behavior of the people in it.

    On the web, you can train an Afghan and give him a gun, and he will fight the Taliban.

    But in the real world, he might take that gun and use it to shoot you.

    Everything on the internet is managed. Sure, the truth slips through from time to time… but even then, most people reject it because its black and ugly.

    The more popular a site is, the less truth is being revealed.

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