Dry Spell

From Sosuave member Flatnose:

Has the PUA community sent me delusional?
Ok I’m 47, well toned still have a 6 pack. 5’11. Ok looks. Well dressed, Good conversationalist Good job, full head of hair, hobbies are climbing potholing[?], playing guitar weight training etc. I’ve worked hard on body language, can approach ok. Often get glances and flirted heavily with.

Not getting laid though!

In a real dry spell at the moment guys, I am beginning to think that banging anyone under 30 who turns me on is just an impossible dream and that I am deluded to believe it.

I guess I am seeking some objectivity about this, are my expectations unrealistic?

Are you fishing where the fish are?

When I read some guy use the term ‘dry spell’ it’s usually due to one of two things: He’s either an AFC or a recovering AFC with only a tentative grasp of Game and is in the learning stages of applied Game, OR, he’s got Game, has a workable estimation of his SMV and knows how to demonstrate it (DHV), but due to logistics and/or his environment lacks the opportunities to effectively hook up as he’d like to.

From your description here I’m inclined to believe the latter. Even with marginal Game application a guy such as yourself could be expected to be reasonably attractive enough to generate interest in the right arena. Maybe you need to change up your environment? Find a new venue to meet women?

It’s been my experience from counseling that when men complain of being in a proverbial “dry spell” it becomes a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy for them. In psychological terms this is known as a negative feedback loop. When you’re in a condition of deprivation you’ll manifest behaviors that cue others about that deprivation. Even declaring that you’re in a dry spell (really an appeal to pity) is evidence enough of your deprivation. The frustrating thing for men is that these deprivation behaviors become a subconscious default action – usually in the hope that some girl will take pity and end his period of desperation.

The Loop

“No mortal man can keep a secret. If the lips are silent, he chatters with his fingertips; betrayal oozes out of him at every pore.” – Sigmund Freud

The trouble with a self-acknowledged dry spell is that most guys are unaware of the subtle deprivation cues they telegraph to the very women who’d break them of the deprivation that causes it. When a beta chump is resistant to the truths of Game this feedback loop is simply a frustrating aspect of his self-denial, but don’t think that dominant, Game-aware Alphas aren imune to the dry spell loop. The inherent danger is to start believing that the dry spell is the result of bad posturing, or caused by a false impression of women’s response to Game, or worse still, due to fate or karma (“it’s just beyond my control, the gods want me celibate”). These are all rationalizations for not recognizing and making a conscious effort at controlling the cues that women read as sexual deprivation.

While it is important to be self-aware of your dry spell feedback loop, the worst thing you can do is admit to the dry spell with a prospective woman. As I wrote in Sorry,..

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9 Never Self-Deprecate under any circumstance.

Apologizing for a lack of Game isn’t Game. Women want a man that other men want to be and other women want to fuck, and that guy, by definition, is already getting laid when a woman first meets him. Being necessitous isn’t an aphrodisiac, it’s a turn off in subtle ways that men don’t realize, but women register even when they’re not trying to. This is the first mistake the dry spell man makes – he attempts to leverage his dry spell into a form of Beta Game, thinking that a pity-fuck will lead to something more substantial.

While ‘slump busting’, or paying for sex, or falling back on a lesser plate may aid in regaining some confidence to break out of those dry spell behavioral tells, leveraging that dry spell for a pity-fuck is not only bad sex, but the girl who would bang you for pity’s sake will only resent herself and you more in the long term.

Breaking the dry spell loop relies upon recognizing it and changing the variables that are perpetuating it. As I advised Flatnose, a change in venue goes a long way, especially if you’re dependent upon some kind of social circle Game. Move to a new environment, meet new prospects. Most guys wont entertain this because it forces them from a comfort zone; a comfort zone which has ‘dried up’.

Changing variables is usually the key. Change in dress, attitude, doing something out of your preconceived Game routine, that may have produced fruit before, is essential. In body building there is a principle known as muscle confusion. When you do the same workout routine for months, muscle memory will find its level and plateau your gains. However, by varying your work outs, by doing new exercises and consistently forcing your muscles to adapt to unexpected condition you break through that plateau for new gains. Breaking a dry spell requires that same principle – variation, adaptation, improvisation.

76 comments

  1. I’m not even gonna get into the intricate details of the guy’s queries.

    But a key point I’m gonna note is this,”Guys need to stop friggin’ equating LOOKS with getting women”.

    Looks mean shit!!I keep saying that for years while others doubt it.

    The guy who had his queries on sosuave[BTW,that’s where I first learned pick up years ago as an RAFC],everything that he mentioned as his qualities were all physical/looks.

    And they obviously don’t get him by.And that’s because looks mean shit!

    What about his qualities(which he never mentioned):confidence,swag,humorous,funny,playful,mysterious?

    Confidence and the above personality traits get you laid.Not a fucking 6-pac(which I have BTW),nor Brad Pitt face nor a giant dick.

    Food for thought for those who believe that looks mean something.

  2. Great thoughts Rollo, but if i can nitpick one thing (which i could be wrong about) but when i first read Flatnose, i got the sense he feels that Game/PUA’s are overemphasizing the ability to nail any age group regardless of age difference. His question seems to be asking if PUA’s are over exaggerating an ol’codgers ability of landing fresh meat.

    He’s 47 trying to nail mid to late 20’s. I’ve been wondering too, is there a limit to age separation before women intrinsically go “ewwww you’re old enough to be my dad” that even game can’t circumvent?

  3. Surely you must admit that there are good and rational reasons – better than “I’m scared of going out of my comfort zone” – for not wanting to move due to a so called dry spell. A move (I’m interpreting this as a longer move, not merely to a new apartment in the same city) isn’t exactly something you can just do on a whim.

  4. From a woman (in her twenties) perspective, it’s not unrealistic. I think for many women it’s about attitude and somehow, I’m not sure about myself..but women can smell low self esteem (men can too). I know a lot of women who’d take an average looking, middle aged male with confidence and an edge over a ruggedly handsome man in his late twenties crippled with low self esteem.

  5. @S-Men cannot smell low-self esteem.

    Keep in mind-men are NOT social savvy nor socially aware.

    Women can sense a guy who gets laid from a mile away.

    A guy on the other hand cannot tell if a girl likes him even if she paints it on her forehead.

  6. @Socialkenny,

    I would argue a woman is almost the same way, well I mean I am speaking for me and the majority of my friend where we will spend an amount of time deliberating over whether a guy likes us or not. I have to say these conversations have lessened throughout our twenties but I have to say sometimes I don’t have a clue. It can also be difficult for myself to differentiate between two I guess distinguishable types of “like” concerning men: that being of “I just wanna fuck you and that is it, afterwards…toodle-ooo” and the “I wanna fuck you but wouldn’t mind hanging around, you seem pretty cool”…

    Men, I’m not sure, I ca’t speak for them but I have encountered men pretty sure of my liking for them (or so they think)…perhaps that’s them just trying to “game” me….

  7. @S-But if the guy himself is being vague as to his liking,then it’s plausible for the girl to not readily know where he stands.

    But a guy blatantly hitting on a girl,oh course the girl knows what’s up.

    But the average guy/AFC is unable to discern when a chic likes him,although she’s flirting heavily and making it obvious besides verbalizing it.

  8. I didn’t know that about varying your workout routine to avoid a plateau.

    I have noticed however that since adding a daily workout or two on the heavy bag that the muscle is coming on faster.

    I don’t believe in God, but I believe in the blessed heavy bag.

    A roadtrip is also a great cure for a breakup. You’ll find that new environments bring out new alter egos. It’s a good point – when old habits aren’t working, change your environment.

  9. A,

    Rollo is only talking about a change of venue, not a move of domicile. If one usually meets girls at the coffee shop or book store, he should branch out to other venues such as clubs or bars and vice versa.

  10. What are the realities of the SMP for 40+ men? At what age should a single man focus on 30+ women? Its an interesting subject – ie how a man is to plan out his sex-life if he decides to stay single and not have children. So now you’re 40 what does your sex life look like? Now you’re 45, 50, 55, 60. At 60+ should a man still be spinning plates? I really don’t know the answer to these question. Yet, I’m approaching 40 and am a recent red-pill guy. So I am trying to figure out how to structure my sexual career from here on out.

  11. The first thing I noticed was his age (47) versus his targets (under 30). Yes, yes, I know that with ‘game’ all is possible, but the reality is that he is trying to violate the “half one’s age + 7” rule of thumb, which generally takes more alpha than most men have.

    47 ÷ 2 = 23.5 + 7 = a reasonable lower limit of 30.5 years old

    Now, admittedly this is more a general rule for relationships, whereas Flatnose is just talking about banging, but it still applies, and probably to a greater extent than most men want to admit.

    If he wants to bang younger women, he either needs to step up his (natural) alpha something fierce, or develop a strong attractor that screams status, such as a clearly distinctive and attractive personal style, lifestyle, or the appearance of serious, serious money.

  12. I’m having trouble as well, the stupid deluded bitches here in Austin loathe my very existence. I’m really really pissed off these days.

  13. “When a woman’s self-perceived SMV exceeds the degree to which she perceives is the SMV of the man she’s with, this is the point at which she will seek out (or be open to the advances of) an Alpha she believes
    exceeds her own SMV.”

    Brilliant.

    No wonder I label you and Chateau The Best of the Manosphere.

  14. Not sure if men can smell bad self-esteem, but they didn’t like me when I had it. I suspect it has something to do with looking too quiet and unapproachable (uninterested) when shy. Bad SE can also make you act bitchy (like if you think people don’t like you anyway), give up trying to look hot. So bad SE can be bad for a woman’s attractiveness, or at least approachability.

  15. I’ve been in this situation though not lately. When i was in this situation it was when i was learning game and i think i was too outcome dependent. I think i was subcommunicating that i wanted something rather than just being confident.

    I’ve been gaming a 26 year old, tall, 8, and when we go out, I do not communicate neediness at all. If i want to hold her hand, i do. If I want to kiss do. She balks at the kissing part becuase it’s in public. But she doesn’t say or imply we’re not going out.

    I’ve been out with her twice already.

    But while I’m going out with her, I’m also seeing at least 2 others, including one I’m banging.

    So maybe this gives me a bit more of a swagger and confidence.

    The only way to break out of this is to figure out where the mistakes are being made and adjust/calibrate until you get it where you want it.

  16. “Not sure if men can smell bad self-esteem, but they didn’t like me when I had it. I suspect it has something to do with looking too quiet and unapproachable (uninterested) when shy. Bad SE can also make you act bitchy (like if you think people don’t like you anyway), give up trying to look hot. So bad SE can be bad for a woman’s attractiveness, or at least approachability”…

    Yeah, I get your point. For a long time after the end of my last relationship, it would not have been uncommon for me to leave the house reminiscent of this: http://prommafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/kristen-stewart-new-rocker-hair.jpg ..with the attitude and everything. It wasn’t out of low self esteem however..I just didn’t want men looking at me. It’s amazing how quickly men will stop noticing you once you have stopped making an effort.

  17. “everything that he mentioned as his qualities were all physical/looks.”

    Social Kenny…you appear to have scanned rather than read my description that Rollo posted. Indeed I mention my physical attributes
    but you appear to have stopped reading there. If I hadn’t mentioned the latter then, from Sosuave readers point of view I could be 4′ 10″, weigh 400 lbs, with a tonsure, body odour and in a wheelchair. I also mention good social skills re: conversation & approach skills, body language as well as a healthy lifestyle and my passions in life.

    Indeed, on my journey from Omega through to AFC to recovering AFC inner Game and combating the fear of change have been key to the gains I have made on this journey. As ever, Rollo hits the nail on the head when he states: “changing variables is usually the key” Indeed ‘change’ is the the only way out of any rut!

    I suppose the original question I was presenting was an an analysis of my potential regarding under 30’s and questioning how far inner game can take me down the road of success. Apart from Rollo, Dean has been the only commentator on here to address my query straight on.

  18. 47 ÷ 2 = 23.5 + 7 = a reasonable lower limit of 30.5 years old

    this is a good rule; but some people look younger than their “birth age” and therefore can bend it quite a bit.

  19. Kenny,
    Food for thought for those who believe that looks mean something.

    Excuse my French, but are we now getting a bit silly with the Confidence School stuff. Looks, with its many facets, do mean at least something (as opposed to absolutely nothing). One cannot seriously dismiss such an obvious part of the whole package, especially the younger the target group is, or the larger the age difference. Even the peer pressure, or Local Matrix as per mr. Ironwood’s excellent essay, is due to have an effect on the way a girl perceives the importance or non-importance of looks.

    BlackCat,
    I see where you’re getting at with the old maxim of f(x)=(x/2)+7 but that is way too pessimistic for me to contemplate at the moment with all the looks and body language from late-teens onward towards my rotting “old” hulk… During daytime.

    Emma,
    It seems that the approachability towards shy/intro/low-esteem girls is indeed curbed in a sense. The signals are not as clear and that can also stun the confidence of an approach. A girl doesn’t even have to cut back in terms of femininity, make-up or otherwise lookswise and still apparently be perceived as less receiving. Like this one girl I once yakked about whom I asked out and to my surprise didn’t offer the expected IHAB, but rather an (at first) enthusiastic affirmative. Even the most (visually) boyfriendables(C) can be non-attached if they offer a closed enough vibe (and a fear of “commitment”), it seems.

  20. I wrote an article a while back which was about ugly guys getting laid more.Not whom I deem as ugly,but society.Look around.Whom do you see getting laid and having GF’s?Guys who society would deem unattractive.So-called hot men,or men who have it all(physically)don’t friggin get laid(generally).The guys who are banging HB’s are either overweight or underweight(scrawny).Why is that?Because ugly men are more confident than men who society deem handsome.Check it out.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  21. 90% of those guys going to the gym buffing up are innately insecure guys(which led them to the gym in the 1st. place).Same goes for the guys who were jocks in school,etc.They don’t get laid post school years.Or the have fat,undesirable wives/GF’s.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  22. I wrote an article a while back which was about ugly guys getting laid more.</i.

    Do you have a link?

  23. If he wants to bang younger women, he either needs to step up his (natural) alpha something fierce, or develop a strong attractor that screams status, such as a clearly distinctive and attractive personal style, lifestyle, or the appearance of serious, serious money.

    How rich is “serious, serious money”?

  24. 47 ÷ 2 = 23.5 + 7 = a reasonable lower limit of 30.5 years old
    this is a good rule; but some people look younger than their “birth age” and therefore can bend it quite a bit.

    Hence the term, “rule of thumb”.

    And again, it generally applies to relationships. If you are talking about hiding or not mentioning your age to not disqualify yourself in order to get a bang, then yes, it can be bent a bit, although probably to a lesser extent than most men think.

    How rich is “serious, serious money”?

    It is a sliding scale, depending on that woman’s “price,” but enough that the appearance, odor or other hint of said money gets her wet to the point of willingness to overlook any other flaws. Of course, this also makes it a clear pump and dump, without conscience.

  25. The hardest part for me was going from complete confusion and awkwardness (stemming from not having a strong emotional core and basically being at the whim of every external social force). For me personally, I stumbled around in awkwardness for 5 years (age 15 to 20) before getting a feel for the ebbs and flows of the game. But there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    No one is a special snowflake…but that only means that the rules of human social behavior apply to everyone the same way. Finding your personal style is often challenging but it will make you truly unique.

  26. @socialkenny – looks DO NOT mean a shit, looks are your MOST IMPORTANT ASSET when it come to women. You could easily get women only based on looks alone, unless you are hitting top class pussy. Looks get you in the door and unless you are complete wacko, looks give you women. I know it myself ladies, so nobody could fool me anymore.

    As a young guy I were good looking. I did not know a shit back than, but I was choosen by females based on looks alone and that was ENOUGH for most of them. Now I am in my late thirties, balding and a bit overweight. I am succesful businessman though with confidence, knowledge and all that shit you pussies say that is i m p o r t a n t. I can still get my share but frankly, there is HUUUUUUGE difference between how women treat me now – with allll this power and how I used to be treated as a good looking man with NOTHING.

    Looks are VERY – I repeat VERY important for women. Sometimes I think that looks are EVEN MORE important for women than are for men. Honestly I know many couples in which man is good looking, fun and positive and his girlfriend is at most average, with bitchy personality and no income. But I still have to see relatonship in which babe is gorgeous and guy is average joe with average income. That simply does not happen. Put it this way – women date up. So men have to date DOWN otherwise no relationship takes place. Men date DOWN – is is pure fact. Even in looks my friends, unless you have power/loooot of money or social status – power. But event with all this power she could easily cheat with this handsome bartnender.

  27. uggly guys getting laid more? You´r kidding me. Do not fuck with me with that bullshit that looks are not important and all is necessary is confidence. Girls SHOW you their interest and they FIND their way to fuck you if you are attractive. If you are good looking and not social retard – WORLD IS YOUR FUCKING HAREM!!!! Let me tell you some things about the attractive guy´s life:

    You are having this birthday party. You were introduced to this pretty babe. Suddently she COMES and sits near you. You are talking. In an hour you are kissing. Makeout that evening.

    You are in the college. Your friend tells you that those cute babe has been asking about you and wants to be introduced to you. In a couple of day SHE COMES TO YOU and introduces to you. You have a brief chat and SHE invites you to coffee. Sex after that meeting.

    I had lots of those experiences in my young age. You see the pattern here? THEY – GIRLS have done all the work. I just ……. took them. If you are attractive all you need not to do is grabbing her when is the time. And neither form them knew my personality, they did not know anything about me. This is the power of LOOKS.

    At the same time I know a couple of buddies that are average or unattractive. Though they are quite successful and have good personalities almost all of them heve had serious problems with women and eventually married chicks I would not fucked event after 5 shots of jack daniels. Their only defect is – looks.

  28. I have to disagree with you there gregg.

    I will admit…all other factors equal most women if not all would take the good looking man over the average man. Thing is it’s RARE to find a good looking guy who is compelling in the other areas that matter to women like me and many of the women I know. I have refused second dates in the past with very attractive men in favor of other less attractive men with substance.

  29. Mhm, cute. Another agreement between women and men about what our lill beauties want. Nice guys have been transformed to “gamers”. Pick up artists. So now it is not responsibility and warm..ehm heart (niceness) but it is “confidence”, and ehm…”substance” what our beloved ladies want 🙂 Previous agreement with nice guys about “responsible, goood husband” failed. We have another one.

    So you have to have this .. ehm, aura, confidence, humor and … “personality”. Of course charisma and “substance” are helpful tooooo. Hehehehehehe. Ladies you are unbelievable. I salute to you 🙂

  30. @Gregg-“Looks are your most important asset when it comes to women”?Are you crazy!!?So you’re telling me a good-looking man who have no skills with women would get laid more than an ugly guy who believes in himself and has skills with women?
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  31. @Gregg-Im not only saying confidence.Dude,yall have to realize that ugly men do NOT perceive themselves to be ugly(despite hearing it a lot).They have a sort of bullet-proof reality about their looks which is what get them laid.I don’t understand,don’t yall guys have male friends?Don’t yall go clubbing and witness good-looking men in field compared to ugly men in field?I have a male friend who looks hideous,as if his face was a burnt pizza.Out of my whole social circle,besides me,he’s the only fucking 1 who gets laid lol!My other buddies who have the looks in the face,they are anti-social,shy,socially awkward and lacks confidence.Good-looking men generally lacks confidence.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  32. @S-Exactly my point!!Great point you made there.Good looking men have 1 thing going for them;a handsome face.That shit won’t suffice.They generally have no personality,nothing of interest,etc.They come off as bland when chatting to women.My name isn’t Socialkenny for nothing.I’m the pick-up artist KING of “nightlife”.Clubbing and going to bars have been my thing for the past 9 years,and I see who pulls ass from the guys who go home alone.And from my observation,ugly men are better in field chatting to women than handsome men are.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  33. @GeishaKate-Thanks for saying that.Guys commenting here need to realize that in the grand scheme of things,a guy who can make a girl laugh gets further than if he just had a handsome face but can’t make her laugh.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  34. gregg,
    Honestly I know many couples in which man is good looking, fun and positive and his girlfriend is at most average, with bitchy personality and no income. But I still have to see relatonship in which babe is gorgeous and guy is average joe with average income.

    Indeed my observation too during those bygone years I used to design (mainly) single-family houses; I met a vast amount of couples and by talking with them could also weigh the “balance” within their relationships, not to mention when we got into a contract. So many times I had to just wonder how — excuse me — hideously ugly women relatively passable guys were involved with, wall or not. It didn’t even seem that there was any woman’s financial status or specially bubbly character to have anything to do with the choice. So uncanny. But what am I to judge. È l’amore.

    However, when it came to good-looking GFs/wives (or ones that had clearly been good-looking), they were invariably with boyfriends/hubbies that were at least moderately good-looking and often with a good job w/ income and wealth. I don’t really remember any exception to that.

    “How queer.” (Arthur Atkinson, The Fast Show)

    GKate (new pic!),
    We’re talking butt-ugly/fat/”creepy”/etc. here.
    Rugged can be construed as being good-looking in a built-up & non-fat way, even with a plainer face. I doubt that the term good-looking is per se a synonym to being a pretty boy, whatever that means.

  35. I think you can get good looking guys with “substance” but it’s rare. I think no matter who you go for you have to compromise in some area..you have to give up something(s)..like I said, I often find the less good looking guys to be better dates..I’ve also been told by my friends that they are generally better in bed too…eager to please and not as lazy. In fact, I would argue that good looking people are more likely to be poor lovers than not so good looking people.

    With women however, their looks can compensate somewhat for their lack of skill..with men..women are less visual and are probably more likely to end up sexually unsatisfied with a crap bed partner..even if he is good looking.

  36. @S-Nice points you just made.I’ve blogged about this many times.
    For instance,which women are the most vain and insecure in the world?Models!Super models!Yet,they are deemed most attractive by society,yet they commit suicide of a big scale,have eating disorders because they think they’re fat when they only weigh like 90 lbs.My point is,the ppl society sees as hot are usually the ones most fucked up in every area of life.I wrote an article a while ago entitled,”Hot girls suck in bed”.That’s true!Same goes for hot men;they suck in bed since they’re under the illusion that looks will carry them.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  37. @SK … make women laugh? Be confident? What? She already is “laughing” like some lill puppy cos she is attracted to you and she can not help herself. She subconsciously wants to fuck you! You see it in her eyes and smile. And I can gurantee you that she finds a way how to fuck you and you will have a hard time escaping her.

    Look – you are trying to mimic behaviour of an attractive man but you are missing the core concept. He is not chasing and persuading women!! WOMEN are chasing and persuading him, my friend. He does not need to entertain them, tell stories, etc. He does not need to DHV. He already is HV. Women do not want him for his…ehm behaviour. They want his genes. They want to brag before their friends with him. They want to feel better about themselves to be able to “catch” such man.

    You are trying to mimic his jerkish/do not give a fuck attitude ´cos even you have eyes and could see that women want to fuck him. Of course when women are not visual creatures – it must be his behaviour why they want to fuck him 🙂 So he is ehm…”confident” :))))))

    I tell you a secret. You know why he is behaving like he do not give fuck? Becaue he knows that NO FUCKING MATTER what he does, many WOMEN WILL fuck him. Again – no fucking matter what he does. He does not need to be nice – like nice guy, he does not need to clown like recovered nice guy – pua, he does not need to “make her laugh”, he does not need to appear “super strong”, he does not need to be confident. He could be bitchy, he could sit down without energy, be sad and pathetic and suddently – BUM, chicks appears and is willing to help him a listen to his bullshit. And then he hears all that crap from women like they want the guy to have..ehm, substance, to make her laugh, to be confident, to be her soulmate, to care abouth her???!!! Women are not visual creatures? What?

    Please do not fool me with this confidence/make her laugh crap for recovering and inexperienced men. Save it for your students, king of nightlife. I am too old for this. And this is blog for mature men. O.K. Enough from me to this “looks are not important” bullshit.

  38. Looks does not take you all the way.That is what you’re tryna say,that with good looks,you have an automatic homerun.
    I don’t mean to sound condescending,but I’m no ugly guy.I’m pretty friggin hot and good looking(facially),I have a 6 pac through out my entire life(athletic built),but that alone has never fucking gotten me laid!If it had,I would’ve never gotten into pick up.I would just rely on my good looks and flash my 6 pac all day.
    Good looks may be an initial DHV,but you’re not gonna f-close a chic based on that.You have to have some substance after opening your mouth.Why is this concept so hard to grasp?
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  39. We see what we want to see when it comes to whether a man’s looks matter.

    The fact is there are many men who have a lot of success using their looks as their main attraction ‘weapon’. There are also many less attractive men who manage to overcome their lack of looks and utilize other attraction ‘weapons’. There are extremely handsome guys who get laid like champs and extremely handsome guys who get nada. The same applies to less attractive men.

    Clearly looks do matter. How could they not!? Are they the be all and end all? Not at all. If you have all the rest of your ducks in line then having looks helps.

    When Socialkenny talks about handsome men as being shy, retiring, timid and socially awkward he is generalizing big time. I know what you mean Kenny, a lot of handsome guys have never had to fight to earn their stripes, but many have.

    A lot of other factors contribute to whether a guy (handsome or not) has that je ne sais quoi; background, history etc etc etc

    I’m an above average looking guy who has had to scrape and scrap to find his way. So I guess that makes me the best parts of Socialkenny mixed in with the best parts of the (pre-male wall) Greg. Lucky me! 🙂

  40. Look, if a good looking guy want to spend a life getting laid with numerous “shallows” (a word I use to describe the most basic of individuals)..he won’t have a problem. However, if he wishes to develop a relationship…his looks alone will not hold him. I’d rather stab myself in the eye with a toothpick covered in paprika than have a second date with a dullard…good looking or not good looking.

  41. Hi S, you sound to me a little as if you hold handsome guys’ looks against them.

    In my experience handsome guys are no more likely to be dull or shallow than less uglier dudes.

    There are a lot of boring, bland, ugly men with a sting in their tail doing the rounds. There are also many handsome, empathetic, charismatic dudes who are honest and loving going about.

    Keep your mind open!

  42. Real You Game,

    No not at all..hey, if a handsome man with a great sense of humour, “empathetic and charismatic” came knocking at my door..I’d open it and invite him in for a glass of wine. I have yet to come across a handsome guy since I have been single who isn’t deficient in some quality essential to me. Then again, I am not looking at the moment.

  43. @Real you Game-Looks matter as much much as ketchup matters on your fries.Very insignificant and minuscular.Good looks are only about 15% of the overall attraction and seduction process(according to my estimation).
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  44. BlackCat
    August 11th, 2012 at 8:32 pm
    47 ÷ 2 = 23.5 + 7 = a reasonable lower limit of 30.5 years old
    this is a good rule; but some people look younger than their “birth age” and therefore can bend it quite a bit.

    Hence the term, “rule of thumb”.

    And again, it generally applies to relationships. If you are talking about hiding or not mentioning your age to not disqualify yourself in order to get a bang, then yes, it can be bent a bit, although probably to a lesser extent than most men think.

    —————————————————————————————————-

    Exactly,

    but if countering this guys “dryspell” is the focus, he could end it quicker if he games college girls. If he is in his 40s and gave an accurate description of himself, he probably does not realize the extent to which sexual politics have changed since he was in his 20s.

    College girls are “empowered”, and they will f__k whomever they want because they are immune to criticism= “you go girl!”

    These so called “dry spells” are from overthinking. For most of these young girls at the club or the party, you’re just another ride at the amusement park.

    If you can stand their music, and avoid their drugs, you can have a good time.

  45. Being really good looking lowers the barriers significantly. These can make more mistakes with penalty and everything is just way easier. The game is still the same, they just don’t have to play as tight as average looking guys.

    Coming in cocky is overkill for the best looking guys. If these guys approach super strong to the typical attractive girl, they can seem unattainable and come off as really douchey. This same bold approach will work a lot better on the hottest chicks though.

    Average looking guys have to compensate with a bolder approach so they can subcommunicate all the good shit the handsome guy already has done with his face/physique (NOTE: I mean BOLDER…not try-hard…people who still don’t get the distinction are stuck in beta-world…).

    Average looking guys with better social skills can still tool good looking guys…it’s just harder than the converse. I will say that good looking guys are not used to being tooled by average looking guys, so when it does happen…often it’s game over.

    Social dominance is not “being a monkey”…it comes from complete and unshakable belief in yourself. This is basic stuff…

  46. @N-All of yall are coming from the frame that looks is the most important,or that looks help,bla,bla,bla.
    Yet,none of yall are able to rationalize my question and answer my question.
    I’m a good looking guy with a 6-pac,athletically built,I’m friggin hot(no need to sound pompous).Why haven’t that gotten me laid?Why relying on my good looks when I was an AFC before I got into the community(PUA),why didn’t I get laid via of looks alone?
    Rationalize this for me.Anyone of yall.

    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  47. In my opinion it’s not the ‘community’ that gets you laid Socialkenny, it’s the fact that when you discover game you become aware of having to take some action in order to get yourself laid. Most people don’t even know where to start before they start to read up. We can thank Mystery for recognizing that there was a problem and making a start on solving it “thanks big guy 🙂 ” But most of the work you do yourself. Game is useful, but it can’t hide what’s already there.

    I agree with you that being “5’11. Ok looks. Well dressed, Good conversationalist Good job, full head of hair, hobbies are climbing potholing[?], playing guitar weight training etc.” will not alone get you laid. But they are all positive attributes that would help you along the way to getting laid. Not the most important attributes, but attributes none the less.

    The community contains some cool guys that use some game in order to compliment their already charismatic and OK personality, but there are soooo many game guys out there who are totally uncharismatic, unattractive weirdos and game just brings the worst out of them. I don’t believe the sales pitch that game can bring all men over the finish line. That might work in theory but not in practice. Again, a man has to have that je ne sais quoi.

    Game and looks are just two ingredients in the big bubbling pot. There are other factors. Game does not account for a man’s entire personality.

    You sound like you do well Socialkenny so I bet you had a decent head on your shoulders before you started. Being well-built, 6-pack etc is quite irrelevant in many situations but the fact remains that if you have two guys with identical personalities and vibes and one is a handsome, ripped mofo and the other a fatso with his front teeth missing the first guy will get considerably more tail. I reckon it would come to more than 15% more tail Socialkenny.

    But this is conjecture on all our parts. It’s so subjective. I don’t think we’ve reached a stage where we can quote figures and stats accurately 😉

  48. You know, it wasn’t really my point to make this a post about a Looks debate. Usually Looks is one of the more contentious issues in the manosphere, and one of the few points I disagree with Roissy about, however, I did cover this a while back:
    https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/

    Looks

    Assets

    Game

    Have two. Three is best, but if you only have one Game is the most essential.

    And just to bring Geisha Kate back to reality:

    https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/womens-physical-standards/

    Women have far more stringent physical standards for men than men will ever have for women.

  49. Game/the community,or what we teach is what got me laid.Plain and simple.Becasue I wasn’t getting laid prior.The community with it’s teaching,turned me into a social guy when prior,I was an introverted coward.So the community is the biggest part of me getting laid.
    All of the things you mentioned,active lifestyle,etc.are all components to aid in getting laid,as women are attracted to guys who have a life.
    But my beef here is that guys seem to be under the illusion that good looks alone get them laid.It’s just totally false.Put a good looking guy in the club who has no skills,what will he do when an HB approaches(which is rare,since women don’t approach blatantly).If he has no skills,he won’t #-close,he won’t KINO escalate,etc.So despite having great looks,skills,confidence and know how,still trumps good looks.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  50. Somebody isn’t closing the deal well. If a woman is flirting heavily – arm touching & etc – all it takes is a good aggressive close. “I’m going home and I’m going to crack open a nice bottle of wine and look at the stars. Care to join me?” What you say doesn’t matter so much as how you say it – confident, you have an agenda, leading her somewhere.

    BTW, unless you’re in a different community than me, climbing & potholing – or any very active outdoor sport – tends toward being a sausage fest. Triathlon seems to be different with a lot of hot single girls wandering around but I’m not sure I’d be willing to split time with a girl whose other love is six hours of training in her spare time… triathletes (male or female) tend to be incredibly solipsistic.

  51. Sorry for hijacking the point lol.But looks seemed relevant with what you’d paraphrased from the sosuave guy.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® device from Digicel

  52. Why do I have to come back to reality, Rollo? Huh, huh, HUH? Its quite nice out here in orbit 😉

    The way a person looks changes depending on how I feel about them. So, the guy who makes me laugh, etc. is going to end up more good-looking to *me* no matter what an objective onlooker might see.

    But I read my homework, Professor. You give and give and the dogs love you for it. Now I’m going back to being a woman where my primary duty is to amuse and be a muse.

  53. +1 to what N said.

    SK, stop talking at the extremes, because extremes are almost nonexistant. Looks aren’t the most important thing, but they get you in door quite easily, and they allow you to make more mistakes during an approach.

  54. @GK, Try not to take this the wrong way, but women of your age reprioritize their criteria for long-term attraction as per their capacity to attract men permits. However the physical arousal cues you had at 12 y.o. are still the same ones you’ll have at 42 y.o.

    You see, when you mention the word “attraction” to women, they almost universally amortize that term to mean “what they’d want in an LTR prospect for commitment.” Since women have a subliminal need to make everything apply to themselves (solipsism), without a conscious thought the assumption is what would be attractive to them for a protracted relationship.

    The criteria of what they’d want in a short-term relationship will be much more visceral, much more physical. But women rarely, if ever, give much thought to what they’d look for in a short term sexual relationship because the physical arousal cues that make them wet aren’t something that even needs to be discussed. And certainly not if they hope to turn that STR into an LTR.

    That STR arousal (not ‘attraction’) is primarily physical, but with Game being an intergal element.

    So, the guy who makes me laugh, etc. is going to end up more good-looking to *me* no matter what an objective onlooker might see.

    If this were the case the Louie Andersons and Danny Devitos of the world should be swimming in top-shelf poon. I have no doubt that very rich, and very funny, but out of shape men have a relatively easy time attracting women, but they can’t make a woman genuinely desire to fuck him on a physical level. It’s just the very commercial version of negotiating desire.

  55. @Rollo: You’re being too polite for me to understand you clearly 🙂

    My age/experience (old enought to know better) is a factor, yes, but I have always been a distance/long haul person. I have never CONSCIOUSLY attempted a STR.

    What I was trying to explain is how my perception of someone’s appearance can change over time. Maybe its just that I don’t notice someone is attractive until a certain point?

    I’m mulling.

  56. I apologize for interrupting this broadcast, but it must be said:
    Logic Is Not Enough.

    [audio src="http://www.corbettreport.com/mp3/episode239-lq.mp3" /]

    Listen carefully, because today on The Corbett Report we tear apart the notions of the clockwork universe, the rationality of humans and the idea that logically valid arguments always arrive at true conclusions.

  57. Please don’t think you can address the issue of sexual attractiveness without addressing the issue of FAT. OK? Don’t even think about it, people!

  58. From the age of 18-35 I never had to work to get a piece of ass, I simply waited until the next hottie that was interested in me came along and it was all the time. It was everywhere and anywhere I went. At those ages its a combo of looks, youth, lifestyle (no committments, wife, serious career), could stay out late and party multiple nights a week and also you have the social circle of same age/interests. At the same time I knew lots of guys who had same opps I did but rarely got laid. Its definitely a combo of looks and other (personality, money, network), but if you’re young and good looking you can just stand there and women will come to you. After 35 its gotten progressively harder. Less energy, worse hangovers, more responsibility at work, less organic network of friends available to wing with you or throw parties that bring in party girls and waning looks.

    I think a handfull of guys continue to milk the honeys into their 40s, but it requires a lot more of the other as your looks fade. Your brain also starts to overtake your dick in making decisions. Is it really worth 4 more drinks, driving drunk/possible DUI because your tail light is out at 2am,, staying up til 4am, risking std or pregnancy for a piece of ass that you don’t even want to acknowledge once you’ve shot your load? When you’re 25 the answer is YES, when you are 45 the answer becomes NO. I’m 48, look 38, but unless its offered up on a silver platter, I don’t walk out of my way or jump through any hoops for ass. Its actually a bit of a relief to be released from the incessant drive to chase pussy.

    Anyhow, the only other comment i have is that someone said that somehow the changing dynamic of relationships was somehow going to save guys time. Anyone who has been to a non-westernized country where you can satisfy your sexual appetite quickly and easily through non-femminzed women or legal and controlled prostitution, knows that that is the only way you’re going to free yourself of spending 75% of your time chasing and casing or catering to a piece of ass if your sex drive is in overdrive like it is for most men under 45.

    Go somewhere in the world where you can get a fantastic hour long massage and blowjob from a smiling 20 something for 40 bucks and then talk to me about how much time and resources you’re saving with the new dynamics. Imagine spending 95% of your day doing what you really fucking want to do, surfing, gambling, building cars, working out whatever and then when You are ready, you get a massage and rocks off with minimal effort or cost. That’s the only environment that’s going to free your asses from chasing modern women around and having to take their shit seriously. And that’s why its not coming anytime soon, because our masters want you spending your youth chasing around the modern whores with hat in hand or watching football on TV all weekend long, they don’t want you to have 95% of your time doing shit that might actually be important, or god forbid, thinking about something other than your dear old dick. You might start to get some big ideas.

    The only caveat is that if somehow you manage to find that needle in the haystack, that girl that gets it, is craaaaazy about you, totally loyal and worth the effort (after many/many/many shit tests by you of course), there is nothing more satisfying in the entire world than becoming a father. Its just become such a huge risk and investment now that men don’t control anything, that its too big of a risk for most men to take now in the west.

    If I was in my 20’s I would expat the fuck out of any western nation immediately, no questions asked, never look back. I’d go Eastern Europe and pray that Putin and other ex-commies keeps the western pussy rioters and their democracy disease where it belongs, in the rotting “nations” of the west. Id learn the local language, do whatever it took to become part of the community (teach english, volunteer etc), find a beautiful unspoiled local girl, have a HUGE family and inoculate them against the poisoned ideologies of the modern western empire.

  59. Pingback: 20 Questions |
  60. I sense an overt focus on externalities both in self and target.

    5 min awareness drill: sit and observe anyone for 5 min and write down the externalities first, then move in to specific body language that infers mood. Finally, start looking at genetic info. features, coloring, etc.

    Guess that persons lineage.

    Start conversation there.

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