Flushing the Nest

Esteemed SoSuave member HITHARD relates a recent flushing of a nest:

It must be an attitude shift or something. But every time I come back to the SS forums my relationships blow up. I don’t notice myself doing anything different but if I’m with a girlfriend they must notice a change and purposely start pissing me off. Perhaps it’s a good thing, a wake up call that I’m not with the right girl and I should go back to FB for a while. My now ex started getting bitchy last week and it just escalated from there. I’m pretty laid back – but arc up if someone tries to stand over me or dictate terms. Her jaw dropped when I told her to pack her things and leave. She hasn’t been living here on a permanent basis but had managed to horde a bit of her stuff over here in the past three months. She was a really nice girl, very pretty good with money. But she started to not so much nag, but nitpick at me and I’m over that at this stage of my life. It’s either something she has managed to hide for all these months or I bring it out in her. Either way it’s a no go from here. Am I being selfish over this?

So perhaps SS is bad for me short term but a deal saver long term. Or it’s a subconscious thing of ‘relationship is already over time to go on SS’
After all the FB, plates and relationships, I do look around and am just not impressed with the quality of the women out there.
I do worry I’m starting to form a trend of breaking it off with women when I get bored or irritated though. My longest LTR was with what I think was a BPD chick long before what I knew what BPD or the SS forum was. I sometimes worry if that has left a lasting effect.

There’s always going to be a contingent of guys – mostly White Knights, but some well meaning red-pill men too – who’ll presume you’re throwing the baby out with the bathwater when ever they read a situation like this. A Scarcity Mentality is one of the hardest mental schemas Men deal with in transitioning over to becoming Game-aware. For most, the better part of half their lifetime has been spent in a psycho-social condition that’s taught them women are to be prized, and her intimacy is a rare and precious gift, rewarded to only the man who can prove himself worthy of it.

It’s a hard schema to unlearn, and even the most unapologetic of PUA still feels that twang of doubt about a decision to NEXT a girl he thought might be of LTR potential. So it’s no shock that to NEXT a woman for what appears to be some minor infraction of nitpicking seems like a wanton overreaction – like stomping on a flower before it has a chance to blossom. Necessitous men, and men recovering from being so, will often adopt the same mentality women will when they hear about situations like this, and call it callous, or selfish, maybe even vindictive of past hurtful experiences. The reason for this is because these men, and women by default, still view monogamy from the perspective of the feminine imperative. Monogamy is meant to serve the feminine, so any action that controverts that, no matter how justified, is by definition selfish.

In the time I’ve been writing in the manosphere I’ve read more stories about how Game saved an LTR more so that the reverse, but that isn’t to say there aren’t breakups that result from a new Game-awareness. Hithard’s self-evaluation about his NEXTing isn’t unexpected. His story isn’t the first I’ve encountered about “Game destroyed my LTR” – that Scarcity Mentality self-doubt needs a scapegoat and Game is an easy foil for this, especially for guys who’ve just unplugged, pushed the envelope back against the shit they were accepting up to that point and the LTR imploded. In virtually everyone of these instances where a man reclaims his balls and the result is a breakup, inevitably the guy realizes what a tough, but ultimately good decision it was to rid himself of a toxic woman, or a woman too insecure in herself to want to relinquish frame after having been in control for so long.

Often enough, a breakup is the red-pill solution.

Flushing the Nest

However, I know Hithard (virtually) well enough to know this isn’t his case. He’s been unplugged for a while now, so my guess is twofold:

First I think there’s more to the ‘nitpicking’ and the nesting that this girl was initiating than he’s going into detail about. I think he’s trying to be more judicious about this because he’s seen (or is subliminally aware of) behavioral cues and attitude cues that are familiar to him from his prior (BPD) LTR, and wants to give her the benefit of that doubt.

He’d hit the 3 month point, and this is usually the time when a woman starts to get comfortable enough with a guy to attempt a frame grab. The obvious tell was how she was semi-permanently establishing a nest at his place. Never a good idea, but entirely expected of a woman who feels the urgency of sex decline with her competition anxiety. I don’t know for certain that this is Hithard’s experience, but it follows a very consistent pattern. At the very least she’s reached a stage at which she feels comfortable enough to make demands of behavioral change (nit picking, nagging, complaining).

On a basic, relational level these are shit tests, but these are now the variety of shit test that qualifies for LTR frame control, as opposed to the types of shit test a man receives whilst dating when the urgency of competition anxiety mediates a woman’s delivery. For example, while single, only the most vapid, self-absorbed women will feel comfortable in making the demands most other women will commonly expect of their LTR man. When single, the art of the shit test is in its nuance and subtlety, when monogamous the shit test is overt and unmistakably direct.

Secondly, after a certain age (SMV), and after some degree of prior relationship chaos there’s a want for some sense of stable normalcy. Most guys are all too willing to compromise what seem, at the time, like small concessions to their women’s demands in exchange for keeping the peace and the legs open. The problem is that this progressively becomes a situation of death by a thousand paper cuts, or frame control by a thousand conceded nitpickings. For beta men, frame control is ceded as part of their wedding vows, but of the Alphas I know who were “fixed” by their women, their backsliding into beta-dom was the result of an incessant etching away of that Alpha dominance by a steady stream of small shit tests and concession of frame by little compromises.

Dumping a woman is DHV (demonstrating higher value) of the highest order. True or not, It implies you had other, better options than her. Dumping a woman is the antithesis of the Scarcity Mentality and it broadcasts this not only to her, but her girlfriends as well as any other girls in her (your) social periphery. Dumping her implies you’ve just gone from a comfortable, familiar beta to the indifferent Alpha that she never realized you had a capacity for. My guess is Hithard will hear from her again. At first it will be desperate and crying, later it will be casual with feigned nonchalance – don’t take the bait.

Whether or not Hithard takes her back or bumps her down to fuck-buddy status, the message is now clear for her – he will control the frame. She will enter his reality or not at all. Most freshly unplugged guys have a very tough time owning this, because for most of their lives it’s been endlessly bashed into their heads that they don’t deserve it. This is the conflict Hithard must resolve.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Danger
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Danger

I haven’t replied to that thread yet, but great job on frame control hithard.

Coy
Guest
Coy

You will not believe how much I needed to read this.Just NEXTed a bitch.Not the LTR nexting though but her shit tests were too overt and she was getting too bitchy … going NC.

John Galt
Guest
John Galt

Usually, a woman will have the “its more convenient” excuse when she wants to leave behind her hair products, wash products, etc, when the obvious reality is that she is marking her territory, so to speak.

I like to reframe immediately and say “Sure, you can leave your stuff here. The girl drawer is 3rd from the top”.

Win.

Nick
Guest

A scarcity mentality is still a challenge I face, whether it’s a missed approach opportunity or not escalating with a girl. I haven’t had an LTR since unplugging last year, so I know that when I do, having a consistent girl will refresh the idea of scarcity, so it’ll be an ongoing process to determine if I’m settling or if the LTR is worth continuing. Like you said Rollo, I think Hithard saw and felt more cues than he’s letting on to. The thing with “unplugging” or “swallowing the red pill” is that its not instantaneous as the monikers suggest.… Read more »

cynical optimist
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cynical optimist

“by default, still view monogamy from the perspective of the feminine imperative. Monogamy is meant to serve the feminine”

This, this and this again epic post.. No longer rose tinted glasses shall i wear but entertain any paradigm shift not to serve the matrix.

Rooster
Guest
Rooster

“I like to reframe immediately and say “Sure, you can leave your stuff here. The girl drawer is 3rd from the top”.” One tip I heard from an old Dave DeAngelo CD was to have a large glass bowl in your hallway. When a woman leaves anything behind in your house place it in the glass bowl. The next time she’s there she won’t be able to avoid seeing her stuff in the bowl. An additional benefit is she might be seeing other female’s stuff in the bowl which is a great catalyst for competition anxiety. Even if some of… Read more »

S
Guest

Look if a guy dumps me..directly or indirectly..game over..cut off..doesn’t exist to me..move on. Be downgraded to a FB??? Are you kidding me?

And I certainly would not reduce myself by having to submit to his terms and conditions..in order to keep him..either. What the f**k? It seems many women do not have an ounce of self respect. Cut him off and..check. mate.

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

“She will enter his reality or not at all.” +1

“And I certainly would not reduce myself by having to submit to his terms and conditions.”

Fifty shades of Grey says otherwise…..

S
Guest

Fifty Shades of Grey my a**. If other women wish to recreate that f**ked up, codependent relationship within their own lives that’s their prerogative. I personally..refuse to be manipulated into a dynamic that does not sit right with me.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

@Rooster

A Natural buddy and I both do that. It works exactly like DavidD says it will lol plus it’s also fucking hilarious.

It’s a little trickier when you’ve been dating her for a bit and she wants to leave a toothbrush (vs the territory-marking “leave-behind” DavidD’s talking about). I’ve allowed them to leave hairbrushes or toothbrushes but I make them leave them out of sight (under the sink, in my closet, etc) which takes the fun out of it for them because half the reason was to mark their territory for other girls.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally

On Hithard’s issue, don’t stress it dude. It comes down to the saying “I could be happy being poor if I’d never been rich.” People settle for shitty significant others because they have scarcity. They literally can’t even comprehend how you could toss a girl for something that to them would be so slight. But you know what you want as a man, you expect a certain standard of behavior from the people around you and you demand certain things from the woman you allow to be lucky enough to be on your arm. Why would you ever apologize for… Read more »

feral1404
Guest
feral1404

I would caution the recently power-imbued unplugged red pill man, however, not to become an insta-dumper just because she didn’t get you the right kind of beer from the fridge. Women shit test. If she sees you as at all worth it, that’s what she’ll do to determine relationship fitness. Smack that shit test down HARD, playfully flip flop it back and forth like a lion playing with live food, reframe and amplify, etc., but I wouldn’t blame a fish for swimming or a bird for flying or a girl for lying. Sure, if she’s a nag-whore or a BPD,… Read more »

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red
David
Guest
David

“It seems many women do not have an ounce of self respect. Cut him off and..check. mate.”
Seems to me the check mate occurred when the man gave her the boot. Dumping someone that already dumped you is not a check mate – it’s just licking your wounds.

“And I certainly would not reduce myself by having to submit to his terms and conditions..in order to keep him..either.”
No worries – if he’s kicking you out, 9 times out of 10, he’s not trying to improve terms or conditions. He just wants you gone.

S
Guest

No the check mate occurs when you walk away without doing what a lot of women seem to be doing..sticking around after being dumped (yet again, directly or *indirectly*), seeking validation..offering themselves as willing to be downgraded…further elevating his ego. The check mate occurs when you pick yourself up, dust your ass off and move on without a backward glance..onto better things I would hope.

Now I have not been in a situation like this (yet, hopefully never) but I know it’s the way I would behave. He wants me gone? I’d be gone in a flash.

David
Guest
David

No harm done then, S. I think there’s a lot of bad blood between the genders, with nuts on both sides and it will apparently get much worse until it burns itself out. I grew up in Europe, and gender relations are palpably different there – I’d never marry an American woman, though I grant there are good ones out there, but the legal system does not encourage me to take a gamble on one. All the best to you.

BlackCat
Guest
BlackCat

“S” – you sour grape hamster, you just don’t get it. He has already said my way or the highway. All of your posing, saying that you would leave with head held high, is just accepting one of the choices that he has already given you: the highway. You have no power over him whatsoever at this point, so all your bluster about check.mate is nothing more than sour grape posing. Furthermore, if you are nagging and making demands to the point where a guy feels the need to show you the door, you are already invested enough in him,… Read more »

Mike C
Guest
Mike C

Fifty Shades of Grey my a**. If other women wish to recreate that f**ked up, codependent relationship within their own lives that’s their prerogative. I personally..refuse to be manipulated into a dynamic that does not sit right with me.

S,

I’m genuinely curious…what is it you hope to accomplish or learn by reading and commenting at this blog?

Michael of Charlotte
Guest
Michael of Charlotte

“It’s a hard schema to unlearn, and even the most unapologetic of PUA still feels that twang of doubt about a decision to NEXT a girl he thought might be of LTR potential.”

But shouldn’t it feel somewhat good at least? I ask because I think I have to next a girl that seemed like such a sure thing in the beginning. Now it feels like I screwed it up badly.

strikeforcemorituri
Guest

“Whether or not Hithard takes her back or bumps her down to fuck-buddy status, the message is now clear for her – he will control the frame.”

That sentence alone is worth it’s weight in gold!!!

Guy’s really need to understand that when used judicially (and I stress judicially) Nexting a woman can be the best thing to happen to a LTR.

Great post. Keep em coming!!!

S
Guest

@ BlackCat,

I have not been in this situation in reality, I am jut saying how I would react. If he says it’s my way or the highway..the woman does have the power to take the highway. If she has to “nag” then she’s not happy..she should find someone who’s behaviour she doesn’t feel the need to modify.

@ Mike C,

It’s just interesting reading a little from the male perspective…maybe I might learn something useful for a future relationship (or perhaps current). I cannot see myself posting or reading long term.

hithard
Guest
hithard

“Look if a guy dumps me..directly or indirectly..game over..cut off..doesn’t exist to me..move on. Be downgraded to a FB??? Are you kidding me?” She won’t be downgraded to a FB (just my sloppy wording and grammar) for two reasons: 1. I do respect her and like her enough not to waste her time in hoping we might get back together 2. I’m not interested in the power games that occur when you have an ex as a FB, ends in a crazy mess. In no way am I saying it can’t be played the opposite (been there done that) of… Read more »

BlackCat
Guest
BlackCat

@S If she has to “nag” then she’s not happy..she should find someone who’s behaviour she doesn’t feel the need to modify. 1. You misunderstand what is referred to as nagging/nitpicking. Read the blogpost and various male comments again for better comprehension. 2. All women attempt to nest and mate-modify when they think they can. If not at the start, then at some future point in the relationship. I am jut saying how I would react. If he says it’s my way or the highway..the woman does have the power to take the highway. There you go with the “power”… Read more »

Mark Minter
Guest

I am older than most of you. One of the bittersweet things about this blog for me is the old “if I knew then what I know now” adage. My 17 year marriage was a wrestling match with a BPD woman that turned me from a minor alpha into a demoralized and almost ruined beta. This blog explained to me so much of what happened over the course of that relationship. (Thanks Rollo. You really helped with that essay) You too have your own realistic SMV. If you squander it on women with various personality disorders, sticking in there because… Read more »

BlackCat
Guest
BlackCat

Excellent, and very sobering comment, Mark. It should be its own post. To further drive home the point, I want to examine in detail a single statement by “S” above: If she has to “nag” then she’s not happy..she should find someone who’s behaviour she doesn’t feel the need to modify. Take a long, hard look at this. A really long, hard look. If she has to “nag” (How many women in marriages/LTRs do you know that do not nag/nitpick in some way?) then she’s not happy (She’s not haaaaaaaapy…) ..she should find someone who’s behaviour she doesn’t feel the… Read more »

walawala
Guest
walawala

Good points. I gamed and then went out with a girl for 10 months. Her nagging and general bitchiness became too much, so I dumped her in December. Since then, we’ve been hanging out. I game her. No banging. I bang other chicks. But she is wayyyyyyyyyyyy more responsive, helpful, proactive than when we went out. Any pangs of guilt or doubt about breaking up have ended. Once in a while I think….hmmmmm, we should get together again. But the reality is, this is a much better situation. Spin plates, be discrete. Loading...

gregg
Guest
gregg

Monogamy serves the feminine? Another pretty lie. Monogamy serves masculine. Monogamy is one of most effective cures for female hypergamy. Just look as some consequences of “spinning plates” mentality. You are drowning in an abundance of pussy but at the same time – you are stealing all those 6s and 7s in your harem from other men. There are those “orbiters”, those men that would like a relationship with 6s or 7s and she might have nodded to that, if you were taken by higher quality women. Of course it does not happen now. Now she is fucking with you… Read more »

siquaeris
Guest
siquaeris

A woman who expresses problems is fine. In fact, most men prefer this to the mindreading that some women expect from them. Unfortunately, many women express their problems by nagging. It’s an indirect method of expression at best, a way to control their partner at worst. Many women will nag because it’s easier for them than saying what’s really on their mind. However, in their own minds, they actually believe that the nagging is communication. After a while, they feel like they’ve done everything they could to communicate but nothing has changed. This is true even if the man gives… Read more »

S
Guest

“Women that say this often push back the hardest while riding me a week later. I do not expect total submission – more that we both enjoy the journey (with me at the wheel).Women that say this often push back the hardest while riding me a week later. I do not expect total submission – more that we both enjoy the journey (with me at the wheel)…” Well that’s good for those women but I’m serious. Why would anyone want to hang around someone who does not want them? But I like what you said and understand your situation a… Read more »

S
Guest

@ Mark Minster,

I’m not really talking about marriages with my comments. I’m not talking about taking all of his money. What I am saying if a man doesn’t want a woman for whatever reason she should accept that and remove herself from the situation with dignity.

BlackCat
Guest
BlackCat

S: Two completely different dynamics

Not as much as you’d like to think. But you keep spinning that hamster wheel. It is quite educational.

S
Guest

So what you are implying is that the man is the boss and the woman is the employee?

gregg
Guest
gregg

@ Mark. It seems that divorced guys share the same mentality about marriage 🙂 “The only safe, 100% way to avoid the financial trauma of divorce is to keep moving, keep leaving, accept this reality, make this the first filter in your decisions. Your passions for women are going to abate over time. If you learn to be alone and live alone eventually you are not lonely, you will be free.” This is my position in my late thirties. For a guy that loves women like myself it is not so easy as it seems, but I have simply witnessed… Read more »

siquaeris
Guest
siquaeris

@S: “So what you are implying is that the man is the boss and the woman is the employee?”

I wasn’t really following your discussion until I saw this. It is a great example of a straw man argument.

The analogy to the workplace was using the boss and the employee, but the boss/worker relationship is not germane to the analogy… yet, you are trying to bring that in as if it were.

S
Guest

No I am not, I was just asking a question for hope of further elaboration.

Robert
Guest
Robert

@ gregg

on the great beta-fodder famine of 2012

What makes you think that the betas would have exclusive access to their bored 5/6 girl anyway, as the whole point of red pill is that hypergamy doesn’t care?

itsme
Guest
itsme

Monogamy is one of most effective cures for female hypergamy

no. hypergamy is like aids – there is no cure, only management.

itsme
Guest
itsme

thumbs up to rollo for this post.

and thumbs up to ‘s’ for her entertaining solipsistic female commentary.

I have not been in this situation in reality, I am jut saying how I would react.

because, as we all know, women do exactly what they say they’ll do.

S
Guest

I did perhaps illustrate my views in a more exaggerated fashion than originally intended (for the laughs) but still: the one point that I am really trying to make is that (and I have stated this before) if a man for any reason decides that he no longer wants a woman..she should not hang around.

Kelly
Guest
Kelly

A womans power comes from her relationship to the mans energy flowing toward her and this is demonstrated by his awareness of her defined by his behavior. Ignoring her makes her feel unloved so separated from his protection which reduces her sense of her own power (security) similar to how a child feels powerful when in the presence of protective adults if the adults display affection leaving the child feeling valuable enough to be protected. A woman is trapped in the paradox of conflicting wants because the more she can dominate the man the more she feels she will insure… Read more »

pliw
Guest
pliw

“I have not been in this situation in reality, I am jut saying how I would react”

oh ok

S
Guest

Well, I do think that I am the best predictor of how I myself would act in a hypothetical situation.

Special K
Guest

Only skimmed the comments, but holy cow guys. Why the fuck do you care so much how S would react to being dumped. You NEXT a girl, and she never talks to you again? That’s rare, but when it happens it’s a fucking WIN. More on topic, I’d like to expound on something Feral1404 said. ” Changing a woman even a little bit is way harder than “next,” but in my opinion it’s far more worth it” I’d argue that telling what can and cannot be changed about a girl, and knowing how to change the parts you want is… Read more »

Special K
Guest

Well, I do think that I am the best predictor of how I myself would act in a hypothetical situation.

Hithard already addressed this with his comment “Women that say this often push back the hardest while riding me a week later.

People (men and women alike) are notoriously poor about predicting their future actions when egos are on the line. Statistically speaking, it’s possible although highly unlikely that you’re predicting your future behavior accurately.

D-Man
Guest
D-Man

Wow Mark. Thank you. I’m beginning to kind of enjoy the indignation people show when they pry enough find out I don’t think I ever want to get married. They all just assume that’s what every decent guy should want. I don’t often feel like going into a rant with them about it, but the short answer has something to do with THIS SEEMS TO BE HOW WOMEN PREFER ME. Raised mostly by my mother, brain given a thorough washing by lib-fem society… by the time I reached my mid-20s, I believed a man should be egalitarian, considerate, and compromising… Read more »

gregg
Guest
gregg

@ robert Hypergamy DO care. About shame, security, money, many things. What makes me think this way? Life. I am from Slovak Republic. Small country in central europe. We have been living this “demokracy” from 1989 but before that date we were living in communism (dictature). While having many flaws, in this society monogamy, marriage and family were heavily subsidized by state and protected by shame, traditions, etc. Women used to be married pretty soon, usually till 21 or 22. Many of PRETTY women, including my mom and women from my family, were virgins till marriage. Woman that was single… Read more »

hithard
Guest
hithard

@ S “Well that’s good for those women but I’m serious. Why would anyone want to hang around someone who does not want them?” That’s a valid enough question for me to give an answer on before I go. I do feel it is a topic that can benefit us all. For women it all depends on how strong the emotional connection is to a man and if you are filling her needs. Let’s focus on the emotional connection though as it has the strongest pull factor, and hopefully I can give you some form of idea through a post.… Read more »

Robert
Guest
Robert

@ gregg

I miss protected monogamy too. But it is gone and dead in the West, and will not come back until women want it to. In the meantime, there is MGTOW and/or Game. What passes for marriage now is a joke, and without women shaming and excluding divorced women, as you mention, it really cannot be recommended to any man.

S
Guest

Thanks for your post hithard…I understand your logic, very well written.

derthal
Guest
derthal

“Sirach 33:19 Never, as long as you live, give anyone power over you-whether son, wife, brother, or friend. Don’t give your property to anyone; you might change your mind and have to ask for it back.

Sirach 33:20 As long as you have breath in your body, don’t let anyone lead your life for you.”

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Doc
Guest
Doc

“Most guys are all too willing to compromise what seem, at the time, like small concessions to their women’s demands in exchange for keeping the peace and the legs open.” So very true – and so VERY destructive… The best thing a man can do is kick a woman to the curb if she isn’t providing benefit on a daily basis – or at least whenever he deigns to spend time with her. I learned long ago, if you aren’t willing to kick her to the curb, it’s over and you are on the long slide to being a beta-chump…… Read more »

BK
Guest
BK

“a woman too insecure in herself to want to relinquish frame after having been in control for so long” – an outstanding sentence that demonstrates an unparalleled understanding of relationship dynamics, and (unfortunately) that well describes my recent BPD. Keep up the great work Rollo!

JohnD
Guest
JohnD

Looking at this objectively, it is clear that the LTR was over before he hit SS. He was just making a self rationalisation that it was SS that imploded his LTR. I’m not making a judgement on him here because I have done the exact same thing. Once a man has any feelings for a woman, his rational mind often goes out the window and he rationalizes decisions that he inevitably knows are bad in the back of his mind with buffers as to why he is making those decisions to then believe he did the right thing. This guy… Read more »

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