The Reckoning

DEAD-RECKONING-MAIN1520

As a man approaches the age of his sexual market peak potential there comes a shift in the order of priority of his position in sexual strategy advantage. Most men never actualize this. For the majority of men, that is to say the 80%+ of Beta men who’ve accommodated the female sexual strategy prior to realizing their SMV potential, this can be an aggravating period of their lives.

Often men are bound to financially and emotionally binding commitments to women well before that peak potential is realized. This is by design of course; a design with the intent of ensuring the long term security of women exiting the short-term sexual imperatives of their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative effects this via social engineering, but few men understand that they could ever have a greater SMV potential they might realize once they mature into it prior to making those commitments.

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On my SMV time line / graph there comes a pronounced shift in a man’s SMV potential just after a woman’s Epiphany Phase, and up to and after a man’s SMV peak potential age range. The social engineering aspect is effected in the form of uniquely male shame and the insisted responsibilities to fulfill women’s long-term sexual strategies. I loosely base the age range of this phase at or around 30 years of age.

I call this point of crossover the point of comparative SMV and the period between women and men’s SMV peaks the peak span years. In a generalized context, the most significant life changes men and women will experience occur within this 15-16 year span. For women, their SMV peak usually occurs at a time in which they have only begun to mature into an adult understanding of themselves. As women’s SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability it’s interesting to consider the SMP power women wield at a point in their lives when they’ve just matured past their adolescence.

For men, the progression towards their peak potential years usually begins around the point at which women’s is peaking. A man’s maturation process, the experience and the time necessary to establish himself as an SMV optimized man roughly spans that 15-16 year peak span phase. A lot of critics of this graph (in an egalitarian mindset) presume that SMV for men is, or should be, the functional equivalent of women’s. What they fail to consider is how men’s inherent burden of performance factors into his overall SMV and the time, effort and personal investment necessary to maximize his personal potential.

It’s vitally important for men to keep that in mind when they consider the whole of men’s sexual market value. Largely, men must invest 10-16 years of that peak span phase to actualize his potential.

The NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) published a study last year which outlined the reasons why most creative and innovative breakthroughs happen in (in this case a majority of men) our late 30’s:

The authors examined the high points of the careers of both great inventors and Nobel-Prize winning scientists, and they found that the late 30s were the sweet spot for strokes of genius:

 Jones/NBER

Innovators have been peaking slightly later in life as the 20th century has progressed, in part because today’s scientists have more to learn than their predecessors did:

Jones/NBER

What’s more, people who excel in abstract fields, like art or physics, tend to be younger than those who win prizes in fields that require more context, like history or medicine. Another 1977 study found that physics Nobel winners were 36 on average when they did their prize-winning work, while chemists were 39 and medical doctors were 41.

If these bell curves look eerily similar to the male SMV curve I introduced two years prior to them being published, it’s only because my experience in the manosphere led me to then what the researchers concluded:

So why the late 30s? The most obvious factor is education: Scientists spend ages 5 through 18 in school, and then ages 18 through 30ish getting their academic degrees. Then a few years of learning on the job, and presto! You dig up an uncertainty principle. Meanwhile, scientific breakthroughs tend to be less common in old age because we invest less in learning as we get older, and our skills gradually become less relevant.

It’s a pretty fascinating study if you have the time to read it.

If you remove the Nobel Prizes and innovative achievements out of the equation I think the rough outline of the bell curve is still generally reflective of most men’s peak potentials with regard to SMV.

Realized Potentials

In Mid-Life Crisis I offered that this contrived “crisis” really isn’t rooted in a man’s yearning for his younger days, but rather his coming to the realization that his SMV and peak potential put him into a state of awareness that he could actualize things he previously thought weren’t possible for him. For many men this is the first time in their lives that they really have the introspection to understand the harsh Red Pill truth.

They realize options they never knew they could have, and they realize they could exercise them in ways they never expected.

They come to understand that the life decisions they’d made 10-12 years ago were based on a fulfilling long-term female sexual strategies. Now they see how that path played out for them. Men find themselves in a position of having wasted that SMV peak potential by accepting the responsibilities he was convinced were his duty by the Feminine Imperative in his 20s, or he finds himself experiencing the boons of that SMV and unable to truly capitalize on them because of his commitments.

It’s important to mention that there is a stark contrast between a man’s mid-life awareness of his peak SMV potential and how women experience their own 10-15 years earlier. Men experience their SMV peak with the benefit of about 12 years of maturity to reflect on while women experience their peak without that benefit. There is no comparison to how men and women experience this peak.

After roughly 15 years of obeisance to the Feminine Imperative, and for the first time in their lives, men can experience a sexual market valuation above that of the women they committed themselves to. For the first time in a man’s life the Cardinal Rule of Relationships shifts to his (potential) advantage. For men who’ve experienced a nominally sexless marriage during that time, coming to the awareness that they’ve tolerated that state for so long and combined with a new realization of their SMV, men will deductively begin taking stock of their marriages.

Granted, a majority of men don’t maximize their personal potential and their wives’ SMV can still, at least perceptively so, out class their own. This is a particularly frustrating position for men without the Red Pill awareness necessary to understand the precariousness of it. These are the men who tend to rely on the fallacy of relational equity and the equalist hope that his wife can be expected to rationally appreciate the sacrifices he’s made of himself for her and their family’s benefit.

Resented Potentials

For women in either case there is a resentment for men entering their peak phase. With few notably exceptional outliers most women realize in earnest that their SMV is well below their husband’s or the potentially acceptable men they’d prefer to be intimate with during the same age range (35-38). On some level of awareness these women understand that their sexual marketability is, perhaps for the first time, at a disadvantage.

Feminine-operative social conventions shift radically during this time because the long-term security needs side of Hypergamy takes on a new urgency as women come to the reality that their own SMV has declined. At the Epiphany Phase the frantic realization that the past short-term sexual indiscretions Hypergamy made a priority for her are no longer (and never really were) a sustainable reality creates the necessity of men to forgive them.

The readied social conventions usually revolve around men’s social contract and commitments, but the old standby of shame is always useful. At no other point in a man’s life will he be humbled (humiliated) more than in the years leading up to his peak potential years. Again, this is by design. In the meta scope of women’s sexual strategy, women cannot afford a man becoming self-aware of his role in fulfilling her strategy.

This is an interesting paradox; optimally a woman would want a man to realize his maximal potential to ensure her long-term security, but she can’t have him fully understand the role he plays in serving her sexual strategy. Thus he must be humbled, if not outright ridiculed, in his social and professional victories. His confidence at this stage cuts both ways. While his confidence in his potential is attractive, women realize it’s also attractive to other women at a time when her SMV is on its decline in earnest and he’s beginning to become more aware of the game that’s been perpetrated on him during the 15 years he’s risen to that maturity.

Late Game Dread

Dread is always an effective Game principle, but the passive Dread that accompanies a man’s SMV peak years is particularly potent. I’ve explored passive or soft Dread in the past, but I think men in their peak years need to understand the effect that unsolicited social proof as a result of increased status and SMV has on women’s (wives’) Dread during this phase – particularly for women who’ve until then never experienced their LTR man in that context.

Red Pill savvy men understand that a woman’s imagination is the most potent tool in the Game toolbox, however, this peak phase has the potential to really emphasize those imaginings and can be played to a real advantage. Since a woman has more to lose on her long-term sexual strategy’s investments these imaginings can inspire an anxiety she’s never known. For a Beta man this is usually the point at which he will double down on his placating in order to allay his woman’s fears, which in turn only reemphasizes and verifies his Beta status to her.

(Implied) Experience Teaches Best

One final point here, I should add that at no other time in a man’s life will employing Amused Mastery be so effective:

Amused Mastery is particularly effective for older men / younger women Game. Assuming you’re in reasonably good shape and have some degree of affluence, being older gives you a degree of authenticity. With maturity comes an expectation of knowledge and experience for Men. I’ve used Amused Mastery with my “pour girls” at promo events and it’s like cat nip for them. You become that Father figure to them (FILF?) that they crave, but can’t seem to get from younger guys. There’s a certain Alpha security dynamic at play between a woman and a Man who emits an ambient vibe of having been with enough women to be able to predict her shit tests, and then pass them with a casual roll of his eyes and a knowing smirk. When a man is giving off the cues of Amused Mastery theres an unspoken presumption by women that he “just gets it” when it comes to dealing with women.

Amused Mastery is far more effective during a man’s SMV peak because women presume that the attitude is more legitimate since a man matures slower into his peak. They expect men to have the maturity and experience to actually be amused by a less experienced, less mature woman. An established man who’s made the most of his potential is presumed to have an attractive Frame into which a woman will want to become a part of.

Fem-centric society conditions men to humble themselves for fear that his confidence would be interpreted as cockiness and thus risk her rejection of him. Most (Beta) men are petrified to even experiment with Amused Mastery because they believe it would be interpreted as disrespect toward a woman, but the truth of it is counterintuitive to them. What they fail to consider is the associations women make with a man’s maturity:

The Associations of Maturity

First off,  it’s a mistake to just peg 40 y.o.s in this demographic. There are plenty of early to mid thirties guys that can and do pull girls 5 to 8 years younger than themselves regularly. Funny how there’s little shaming stigma with that age difference. It’s not a man’s physical age so much as what the age represents (or is perceived to) – maturity, accomplishment, better provisioning capacity, status, etc. Do ALL men actually realize these to their satisfaction by this time? Of course not, but it’s the perception that they SHOULD have actualized this that is the attractant in comparison to younger guys who haven’t, nor would really be expected to. Mature Men represent this perception of assumed accomplishment and security – exactly what women are looking for in a phase of life where their sexual marketability declines and their need for long term provisioning becomes more urgent..

 

235 comments

  1. “As women’s SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability”

    The more sexually available she is the higher her SMV or lower?

    A few of the beta providers I know are high SMV in their local sexual markets with options to date younger, child free women but they fell in love with baby mamas. Can you explain that? Is “true love” really a thing?

  2. What are some great ways in dealing with being aware of the red pill and growing older while losing people along the way who no longer find your company meaningful? How do you truly rid your self of years of conditioning?

  3. @kfg

    April 24th, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    ” It just doesn’t make sense.”

    “Pretty little theory, but it will stand or fall on the empirical data, no matter how ugly.”

    You aren’t clear but I assume you intend “pretty little theory” to mean that I think this discussion should remain unspoiled by women commentators such as Dragonfly. I in fact do not. I welcome their involvement and believe it is crucial to maintain a truly open forum as intended. Perhaps you (like some others) assume my comments are designed to attack a person. They are not but I do intend to attack the paradigms I see as unrealistic and dishonest.

    “why the fuck are you reading all this stuff…?” is intended exactly as I wrote it. I am curious to know the real reason why Dragonfly is participating, I wrote the question honestly although I do not expect to receive an answer. She may explain her involvement as charitable, to help men, or her son or humanity. However I suspect she has a personal motive that she may not completely comprehend or ever divulge.

  4. “You aren’t clear . . .”

    . . . about who my comment was addressed to. Mea culpa.

    I was addressing the mad Yale hatter.

  5. @NBTM: “I suspect she has a personal motive that she may not completely comprehend or ever divulge.”

    I suspect I have identified it.

  6. Mad Yale Grad
    April 24th, 2015 at 7:06 pm
    “As women’s SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability”

    “The more sexually available she is the higher her SMV or lower?
    A few of the beta providers I know are high SMV in their local sexual markets with options to date younger, child free women but they fell in love with baby mamas. Can you explain that? Is “true love” really a thing?”

    You are seeing but not reading the text properly. The sentence you first quoted reads “based on her looks” and moreso if she passes the boner test and is high on a ten scale rather that if she will sleep with you. High SMV is she is hot and you want to sleep with her. Not that she sleeps around and anyone can bang her.

    Your comment is pretty much in regard to having high Marriage Market Value rather than SMV

  7. Rollo-

    Thanks for another absolutely great post your writing skills are excellent. All this should certainly help men to reach maturity in these respects more efficiently and with better tact.

  8. sjfrellc

    April 24th, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    Mad Yale Grad
    April 24th, 2015 at 7:06 pm
    “As women’s SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability”

    “The more sexually available she is the higher her SMV or lower?”

    You are seeing but not reading the text properly. The sentence you first quoted reads “based on her looks” and moreso if she passes the boner test and is high on a ten scale rather that if she will sleep with you. High SMV is she is hot and you want to sleep with her. Not that she sleeps around and anyone can bang her.
    ______________________________

    Maybe. I’ll let Rollo answer. He wrote “sexual availability” AFTER “based on her looks”. So boner-test-passing looks are a separate thing from “sexual availability”.

  9. I didn’t participate in the last comment section on “Spring Break” because I thought most of the arguments were specious.

    Deti, thanks for the paragraphs on UMC (upper middle class) being less affected. I resonate with that and think you are spot on. I’m in that demographic and your explanation fits like a glove. For me, you and the UMC community around me, marriage is where it is at.

    In regards to the current essay (and realizing that it is a little more true for those that had the resources back then and now to self actualize) I keep myself happy for the red pill truths I deduced back then, rather than the stuff I didn’t know .

    Last essay brought up how certain few shouldn’t have gotten married.

    Thing is “we thought it was a good thing to do at the time”. I got married and I’m sticking to the script. Men these days should not get married. I did and should have. How dare some of you indict those that got married a long time ago and imply that you can go back and have a do-over. I for one would do it again with the tableau I was presented with. And I am quite satisfied for not with my current relationship. It may not last but it was exactly what I wanted and the best thing for me. I see the flip side of the coin in that along with todays essay, if I didn’t lock down my good wife at her being 25 (and very high SMV and me at 29 (with a very high MMV) I would have had a much less fulfilling family life.

    I have a lot to say about the last comments section and my thoughts may surface, but I can’t reserve comments on a few.

    Except a few: Mad Yale guy– some of us have digested a bit more of The Rational Male than you have and we speak in that context. Don’t be offended by the criticism, be more aware.

    Dragonfly– I’m still slightly offended at your comments in the end of “Managing Expectations” April 19th, 2015 at 8:16 pm in which you put quotes around men “need” sex. To me that de-legitimizes the male experience. And I think if you asses your comments in “Spring Break”, they are excellent comments from a woman’s point of view, but totally non-empathetic to a male point of view. Esp. in regards to Anonymous. I have neither the motive, nor the opportunity to cheat in my marriage, but I think Anon. is where he should be at this moment in time. In suspended animation, with the following phases of his life to be determined. He is what he is and with Red Pill awareness and Game, he may be able to play the hand he was dealt for the good of himself, his wife and his precious children. He is not living a lie, he is adapting to life as it is now and has been for him. Survival is not for the fittest, because anyone can be stricken down at any minute, but it is for those that can adapt to the conditions that they are presented with.

  10. “Maybe. I’ll let Rollo answer. He wrote “sexual availability” AFTER “based on her looks”. So boner-test-passing looks are a separate thing from “sexual availability”.”

    No need for you to wait for Rollo. Sexual availability is not equivalent to she is a slut and will sleep with anyone that comes along. That’s not to say that if you can get her and lock her down,before she sluts it up, and she is quality, Do IT. Sexually available means she is hot and you have the ability to lock her down. Not that she will sleep with anyone.

    I’m a little annoyed by the equalist mentality going on here. Men and women are not equal. They are complimentary. I firmly believe men can sleep around and they are better for it. Women can sleep around and they are definitely not better for it. Do you not understand this Red Pill truth?

    I am monogamous. Within a marriage “the perogative to sleep around” in a monogamous way needs to be expressed in a variety of sex with your spouse. Monogamously, unless your wife refuses sex with no desire. Then all bets are off. Monogous men should proceed with Red Pill awareness and Game. Fine if you think that implies polygyny. Some of us don’t think so. If you are not good enough to keep her, Hypergamy will have her go with an available Masculine male that she thinks she deserves.

    So espoused by Rollo.

  11. If more married men are interested in keeping their wives interest in sex I would recommend Ian Ironwood’s books. He is a (excellent) writer by trade and as a sideline he comments on keeping your wife attracted to you. He is well researched in red pill awareness and game.

  12. Furthermore, Yale Grad, what is your personal story? Most of the commentators detail their point of view to give legitimacy to what they say.
    Rather than talk about broad talking points that are not in keeping of what Rollo has written about for 14 years in 410 essays and two books.

  13. Metallica

    “The Unforgiven”

    New blood joins this earth,
    And quickly he’s subdued.
    Through constant pained disgrace
    The young boy learns their rules.

    With time the child draws in.
    This whipping boy done wrong.
    Deprived of all his thoughts
    The young man struggles on and on he’s known
    A vow unto his own,
    That never from this day
    His will they’ll take away.

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never be.
    Never see.
    Won’t see what might have been.

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    They dedicate their lives
    To running all of his.
    He tries to please them all –
    This bitter man he is.

    Throughout his life the same –
    He’s battled constantly.
    This fight he cannot win –
    A tired man they see no longer cares.

    The old man then prepares
    To die regretfully –
    That old man here is me.

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never be.
    Never see.
    Won’t see what might have been.

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    [Solo]

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never be.
    Never see.
    Won’t see what might have been.

    What I’ve felt,
    What I’ve known
    Never shined through in what I’ve shown.
    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    You labelled me,
    I’ll label you.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    You labelled me,
    I’ll label you.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

    Never free.
    Never me.
    So I dub thee unforgiven.

  14. Another thought is: that those recently accusing Rollo of not having congruence in his statements. Simply laughable and idiotic.

  15. Sexually available includes her inhibitions with being sexual.
    You can check the story about the check list guy. He was able to have sex with his wife, but due to her multiple excuses and uptight personality, her value was next to zero due to her restrictive availability.

  16. Rollo was the one to list it as the 2 main ingredients of female SMV, and he distinguished it from looks, so I’ll wait for him to clarify what he meant by “sexual availability”.

    sjfrellc, Hi. Since you addressed a few comments toward me I want to acknowledge that.

    I don’t imply that women and men, or even two individuals, are exactly the same. I also think you interpreted my “humans are not by nature monogamous” statements as being full scale promotion of debauchery.

    I am a family oriented traditionalist at heart and my respect for human sexuality fits within the structure of extended parental investment that human offspring require. Due to the physical and emotional investment that human children and even young adults (teens) require from their parents, I am against the swinger lifestyle for people with children. A swinger lifestyle diverts time, energy, finances, etc away from children and puts everyone at risk for STDs. At the same my family oriented traditionalism is disgusted that a marriage, a home, a family, all years in the making, would be thrown away simply because one spouse or both made an intimate connection, physical or otherwise, with another human.

  17. Bruce Jenner interview with Dianne Sawyer. The nadir fallacy of the show empowers the Feminine Imperative to have a negative feeling for the masculine imperative. Bruce Jenner engenders empathy. So masculine males should back it down a bit because they think guys wanting to be feminine are abnormal (< than x%). The whole tone is anti-masculine. He does not define anything. He is an anomaly.

  18. @sjfrellc
    Survival is not for the fittest, because anyone can be stricken down at any minute, but it is for those that can adapt to the conditions that they are presented with.
    (That really gets into my trauma and coping like a women) my fathers stance growing up was cope just cope live I don’t care how just live. Stop being a baby and grow a pair. Violence+sex= serious boundary issues.
    @not born this morning
    In my time of need Opeth
    I can’t see the meaning of this life I’m leading
    I try to forget you as you forgot me
    This time there is nothing left for you to take
    This is goodbye
    Summer is miles and miles away
    And no one would ask me to stay
    And I, should contemplate this change to ease the pain
    And I, should step out of the rain, turn away
    Close to ending it all I am drifting through the stages
    Of the rapture born within this loss
    Thoughts of death inside
    Tear me apart from the core of my soul
    Summer is miles and miles away
    And no one would ask me to stay
    And I, should contemplate this change to ease the pain
    And I, should step out of the rain, turn away
    At times, the dark’s fading slowly but it never sustains
    Would someone watch over me, in my time of need
    Summer is miles and miles away
    And no one would ask me to stay
    And I, should contemplate this change to ease the pain
    And I, should step out of the rain, turn away
    And I, should contemplate this change to ease the pain
    And I, should step out of the rain, turn away

  19. @Mad Yale Grad
    April 24th, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    What? You married? You doing OK? You want out of your situation?
    What you say in comments has legitimacy for how you live.
    I can’t tell your frame of reference.

  20. “I am a family oriented traditionalist at heart and my respect for human sexuality fits within the structure of extended parental investment that human offspring require. Due to the physical and emotional investment that human children and even young adults (teens) require from their parents, I am against the swinger lifestyle for people with children. A swinger lifestyle diverts time, energy, finances, etc away from children and puts everyone at risk for STDs. At the same my family oriented traditionalism is disgusted that a marriage, a home, a family, all years in the making, would be thrown away simply because one spouse or both made an intimate connection, physical or otherwise, with another human.”

    Nothing in that expose would have me thought that your previous statements were genuine rather that just talking out of your ass.

    Or you are just frustrated.

  21. Rugby, Don’t drink so much when posting and explain what what we can help with in Game adapting. Adapt to your circumstances but do it in a red pill awareness. Do adopt game skills. Game skills are universal, not just in getting laid.

    Comment section here is for helping, No?

  22. I don’t want to lie and say I’m routinely banging women half my age, but younger hookups do happen for me now. And I’ve noticed, they often text you after for some mentoring. One was a 24-year-old civil engineer who’d just gotten her first real job, and continually asked me for advice on whether to buy a home, how to allocate her retirement, etc. I told her about my bank pulling out of Florida entirely because there were still way too many properties in default in the Orlando area, so maybe she ought to rent for a while.

    But the oddest thing, all she really knew about me was that I could go full Vedder when doing Pearl Jam karaoke, had a nice apartment, adorable rescue dog, good connections for a leafy green substance, and the complete Beavis ‘N Butthead on a media PC. She’d completed a STEM major by the skin of her teeth, so dad was still in the picture.

    Even last Wednesday I met up with this 22-year-old, she was looking for help on determining a career/maybe going back to school, and though an FL 6, in OH where I’m temporarily located, was more like an 8, judging by her bearded orbiters.

    /We made out, Goo Goo Dolls fan, but she flaked on me last night. Oh well, only in town for a few more weeks any way.

  23. @sjfrellc
    Not drinking just had a realy hard day dealing with people.
    By the way anytime I use the red pill know I am balanced and calm. Problem is their are many people who don’t appreciate that. It’s making life amazing by being aware I seem to be a threat. All my rugby games have gotten cancelled since getting deeper in the red pill. It’s been sad and I just found out Greg plitt died back in January. All these things are hard for me to handle. Rejection rejection rejection rejection rejection. No regret
    Best part about not having buffers is bleeding in the face of your old self.

  24. @Mad Yale Grad:
    Rollo was the one to list it as the 2 main ingredients of female SMV, and he distinguished it from looks, so I’ll wait for him to clarify what he meant by “sexual availability”.

    What is the sexual market value of a beautiful woman who is otherwise completely sexually unavailable?

    I think you may be confusing SMV with MMV (marriage market value).

  25. Still having a hard time interpreting what you are saying Rugby. And I don’t think spelling properly and formatting with paragraphs would help that much. What’s up with this rejection stuff? Sadness about George Plitt? What about if I never heard of him?

  26. I have very young sons. This is cemented in my mind. I’ll put this “talk” right up there with the other “talk” when they’re old enough to understand.

    Those of you with sons, we can’t let this wisdom or these opportunities pass us by. Stay vigilant. Here’s to Rollo’s wisdom trickling down through the generations. Maybe at some point, when enough have seen the truth, the tide will be turned.

  27. It’s reasonable to assume that this kind of spurious SMV graphs are not an indication of real mating dynamic. And neither I see any need to keep old fallacies for the Manosphere, unsustainable from a scientific point of view.

    From this basis, firstly I’d suggest an alternative approach to the description of the term: “sexual mate value” based upon a principle of describing variation in both what we are measuring and which metric units we use, thus aiding comparisons across units.

    If you consider as a response curve that give the probability that a given man (by age) will mate with a potential female partner with a given phenotype, in any way there would be a peak point at 38. In fact, you’ll find decreasing curves above 30 years.

    Although common sense can serve to derive such matters, furthermore it can be reasonably inferred from data/investigation that agrees in all frames of observation:

    Do Women Prefer Older Men? Debunking The Myth

  28. @sjfrellc
    He used to do awsome workout feets. Such as sky dive into a waterfall than climb trees to get out of a Forrest all in one workout setting.
    I suppose what I mean by rejection is that the good parts of the red pill is that I am wrong about everything the bad parts are that my old support network doesn’t appreciate it at all. Their rejecting this new version of me that seems to bring the cold shoulder and many uninvited outings.
    It’s a beautiful because of what it means in the long run. Is that clear enought for you? I’m not the best in dealing with rejection. I enjoy that it happens because it reminds me of the balance of energy I used to put out in not being rejected by using buffers is almost gone not all the way but almost.
    It also helps me learn about things that are not in my control. Such as having all 12 games lined up get cancelled. One hard thing for me to get used to is being ok with people who aren’t and never where their to help me. It’s been clear in the last 24 hrs that this online community is what I have. Everything else is subjected to things that are way out of my control and usualy involve people who get angry with me for noticing basic truths rollos been going over. It’s a catch 22
    Become aware and be better than the person who you where yesterday… Move forward in the direction of your better self.
    Hope that’s clear. What a great day.

  29. “For men who’ve experienced a nominally sexless marriage during that time, coming to the awareness that they’ve tolerated that state for so long and combined with a new realization of their SMV, men will deductively begin taking stock of their marriages.”

    “he finds himself experiencing the boons of that SMV and unable to truly capitalize on them because of his commitments.”

    The question then becomes, does he capitalize on that potential by renouncing on his previous commitment?

    For myself, this has been the only difficult part of my red pill education…how does one reconcile life’s previous blue pill decisions/commitments, that still effect my life today, with red pill awareness?

    It leads to some truly difficult decisions. I assume the majority of men, red pill or not, will choose to maintain the status quo to avoid that adversity.

  30. Caveclown,

    “For myself, this has been the only difficult part of my red pill education…how does one reconcile life’s previous blue pill decisions/commitments, that still effect my life today, with red pill awareness?”

    There are three words for that: self-awareness, self-awareness, self-awareness!!!!

    I recommend you “No more Mr. Nice Guy”, the book by Robert Glover. You cannot reconcile both pills. You have to rewire your brain to work under the red pill premises. It is a great challenge and elieve me, once you do it you will gain a great understanding of the relation between your parents, who your mother was before meeting your father, who your father was before he met your mother and how that shaped your blue pill mindset. It is the ultimate knowledge.

  31. @lannister

    I slogged through your poorly constructed article linked above. What’s your point? Rollo’s “spurious” graph describes when men peak. You seem to be analyzing marriage data. Two different things since the vast majority of men don’t have options and have been trained to marry around thirty.

    Check out graphs in the link below.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2751179/Are-girl-22-Then-don-t-bother-online-dating-Alarming-graph-shows-ages-attractive-opposite-sex.html

    Just a suggestion, but if write to convey your point rather than trying to seem scientific, you’ll be more successful.

  32. Caveclown,
    Are you talking about within a marriage? Married man game is tremendously more difficult than single man game because the stakes are extraordinarily high. It is more difficult to Keep Frame if you never had it in the first place.

    Here are two links from Rollo’s essay and a link from Athol Kay on the mindset change needed for a red pill awareness.

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/06/21/case-study-the-crazy/

    https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/22/dream-girls-and-children-with-dynamite/

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/07/why-being-asshole-alpha-works-for-about-six-months/

    What do you think about these three linked essays?

  33. @Lone Survivor

    Thanks for the advice man. I have read NMMNG at least 5 times. Rollo’s book 3x and just started his preventative medicine book.

    I’m about 3 years into my red pill journey. I didn’t mean reconcile the mental understanding of prior blue pill decisions and current red pill awareness, I meant the actual action of changing my life to suit me.

    I “took stock” 3 years ago. I did not like what I saw. So I changed it. I tell you what, success and getting away from the nice guy/beta persona will let you know real quick who your real friends are.

    This post really helps me understand my situation over the past year better.

  34. RE: Sexual availability.

    Hot women are awesome. Unavailable, frigid or otherwise unfeminine women who are hot are frustrating.

    Would you buy a Lamborghini if it had a 2-stroke lawnmower engine in it?

  35. @sirtyrionlannister
    “It’s reasonable to assume that this kind of spurious SMV graphs are not an indication of real mating dynamic.”

    I understand that your comment reflects the average dating market. However, what Rollo is pointing out is that a man’s SMV is contingent upon successfully navigating one’s career, accumulating assets and optimizing health. If a man maximizes his success in these areas, then his SMV may well peak in his later years.
    Rollo’s SMV chart is an idealized representation of a man who has made the right moves, a man at his peak. If you want a unit based and more granular representation of SMV, try Chateau Heartiste’s https://heartiste.wordpress.com/dating-market-value-test-for-men/.

  36. Amused Mastery is particularly effective for older men / younger women Game.

    Yes… yes it is…

  37. @CaveClown

    I’m right with you, buddy.

    I’m 42, about 2 years into my “red pill journey” and have recently taken stock of my position. Thinking back upon all the ways I allowed myself to be shamed into my current situation and all the bullshit I was sold.

    I’ve had a sexless marriage for about 12 years, 3 kids, and a wife who realizes that I could do much better, and who has made some changes to how she deals with me as a result – but I can see that the changes are done begrudgingly, and I suspect they won’t last.

    I can hardly fathom destroying my family, but what do I have to look forward to if I don’t? That’s the big question.

    DT

  38. 1.) You’ll notice in Siirtyrion’s article that no women expressed a “preference” to marry a man younger than themselves in all his studies cited.

    Why do you suppose that it?

    2.) A self-reported “preference” doesn’t necessarily describe the motivation for a behavior. In other words, “wants” got nothing to do with it.

    3.) Of the women polled, what % do you suppose banged men 3-5 years their senior before they married?

    4.) Which demographic of men do women most commonly define as the “educational, intellectual, status and economic equals” whom they’d like to marry?
    https://therationalmale.com/2015/03/13/bachelor-nation/

  39. “Are you talking about within a marriage? Married man game is tremendously more difficult than single man game because the stakes are extraordinarily high.”

    sjfrellc,

    It’s especially more difficult if you did a bad job at vetting, as I did.

    Higher stakes? Like my kids and half (or more) of my money? Hey, bet big or go home…right? lol

    Thanks for the links. I’m very familiar with Kay’s work.

  40. DT,

    Kids! I know that. I have two. Don’t want to break up the family, but I will do so if needed. I’m 33 years old.

    Plenty of sex from my wife, but only because I have more orbiters than Jupiter. (dread)

  41. RE: Sexual availability

    I see what you did there Rollo. When you said beauty and sexual availability you meant it with the “and”. Not what Mad Yale grad implied among his friends– beauty “or” sexual availability.

    Caveclown,

    Another of Rollo’s essays might also be appropriate in in terms of advancing from the status quo: The Plan

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/04/09/the-plan/

  42. @caveclown
    I tell you what, success and getting away from the nice guy/beta persona will let you know real quick who your real friends are.
    (Your right brother your right. It’s a wonderful punch in the gut.)
    @lone survivor
    It is a great challenge and elieve me, once you do it you will gain a great understanding of the relation between your parents, who your mother was before meeting your father, who your father was before he met your mother and how that shaped your blue pill mindset. It is the ultimate knowledge.
    (My parents made a point about the glorious blue pill for this very reason they did not understand their emotional security’s until I was 18)
    Red=reAlity blood the way oxygen comes through your body. Blue=blood in ideology the biometrical color only within the body

  43. @CaveClown

    I’m having a hard time seeing what your problem is, then. If your wife is treating you right, what’s your justification for renouncing your previous commitments?

  44. ” . . . it can be reasonably inferred from data/investigation that agrees in all frames of observation:”

    The data you present is only applicable to marriage within the current social frame of observation.

    In ancient Egypt, where neither the state nor the religion (as they were essentially the same) took any active role in marriage, there was no social concept of virginity and mating was an essentially personal affair, approximately 25% of women married men about their father’s age. That’s just for marriage, not pre-marriage screwing around.

    Rollo: ” Would you buy a Lamborghini if it had a 2-stroke lawnmower engine in it?”

    Actually, it is one of my dreams, since I cannot buy one, to design and build the equivalent. The only rub being that in the current frame it would be impossible to make road legal.

    But I freely admit that I am anything but typical.

  45. DT,

    If getting sex was the only indicator of a good marriage, then every crazy chick from here to timbuktu would have been wifed up by now.

  46. Having driven a Lotus and a Lambo on a track for my birthday this year, I’d much prefer a Lotus. I’m strange like that.

  47. @kfg
    But I freely admit that I am anything but typical.
    Ahaha
    Makes me one build one without the logo. Just walked by one in dc few days ago. Strange thing is having a car like that in a city is like have a hb11 at a McDonald’s an a date it can be romance for sure but it’s potential is limited based off its inherent design.
    Makes me think of alpha bux beta bux in class use. High class cars draw alpha in so many ways performance and use.
    One thing I’ve noticed about cars they show mindsets in posturing unlike any other social convention or demographic. Especially for males.

  48. “Never use allegory on the internet.”

    And just to rub it in, I’d also like the equivalent of a Lotus 11 and salt flat streamliner powered by two stroke weed whacker motors.

  49. ” . . . it’s potential is limited based off its inherent design.”

    That’s why I bought a Maserati instead.

  50. I”m pushing 50…I’ve worked on both inner game and outer game in the last 18 months. Outwardly, I have the techniques down, changed my wardrobe, work out regularly, look “mature” but not your dad’s “50”… Inner game-wise, I’ve now focused almost exclusively on gaming and banging girls below 30 with one or two exceptions who would be 32.

    Girls dig the whole mature confident vibe—which took time to hone. Amused mastery works great but it has to be consistent….you can’t chuckle at a girl’s foolish attempts at your attention then suddenly seem pitifully grateful.

    A lot of this for me is internalizing the techniques so they become more natural rather than conscious.

    As for women…interesting that I have zero interest in women over 33 and they are now throwing themselves at me…it would be so easy but I don’t bother gaming them and they still come out with all sorts of ways of trying to get my attention.

  51. “RE: Sexual availability.

    Hot women are awesome. Unavailable, frigid or otherwise unfeminine women who are hot are frustrating.

    Would you buy a Lamborghini if it had a 2-stroke lawnmower engine in it?”

    OK I get it. But think about the STDs? In a young, college or bar-scene oriented “party years” context, the one pick up artists operate in, sexual availability signals a good time. When you’re looking for a wife and future mother of your children, it signals impending doom.

  52. “…interesting that I have zero interest in women over 33 and they are now throwing themselves at me…”

    Do not overlook the value of game knowledge applied to blowing women out. Getting rid of the women you don’t want is just as important as attracting the ones you do.

    ” When you’re looking for a wife and future mother of your children, it signals impending doom.”

    It certainly does.

  53. @MadYaleGrad
    Well think of the inter workings your dealing with…

    Frame and awareness may help one go to the other?
    You can’t negotiate genuine desire. So you work on your. In the teo their is a saying. “To oppose is to support”

  54. Thanks for this one, Rollo. Nowadays, i sometimes think that the correct way to be calibrated is to guage how much shame you are going to encounter and to choose that path which does no objective harm to anyone while simultaneously inviting maximal shame? I wonder what are your/commentators’ thoughts on this.

  55. sjfrellc
    April 24th, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    I always thought cheating was wrong. Not morally. But because it doesn’t maximize your value. What ever you do with other women – do it openly. It will make the woman you are with more attracted.

  56. “@MYG
    I think I’m going to just call you Lead from now on. You’re incredibly dense.”

    I’ll cosign that Sun.

    Male YG can’t see that if he wants to lock down a high quality woman at 23 to 25 years old, he has to attract her with his high SMV and high MMV before she gets her money’s worth she paid to ride the cock carousel in her party years. He has to have the pull to get her. He needs red pill awareness and game implementation. If you have to worry about STD’s you are engaging in a relationship with a woman who is getting her coins worth it for what she invested in the carousel. Even if AWALT.

    Or he can stick with the Blue Pill and enjoy the comfort it provides. Or he can choose to not get married, although his bias seems to lean toward it. Good luck with that if he’s a young one and not in the UMC.

    @Mad Yale Grad,
    So what is your story? Other that you haven’t read or agreed with much of Rollo’s writings on The Rational Male. Are you young, old, in a relationship, spinning plates, in a good marriage? The reason I ask is because it might explain why you enter the comments section provided by one of the most respected bloggers in the Manosphere and run counter to his ideas. He has spent extra-ordinary effort helping men in an extraordinarily skilled way for the last 12 years. And some of us appreciate the efforts and the dramatic improvement in our lives.

    My intent is not to demean or be mean. My intent is to potentially unplug another from the Matrix. Besides, you regulars have to agree rogue commenters in the last six months have provided a wee bit of entertainment. (How come Kristine Rose doesn’t come around no more?)

  57. @rugby11ljh
    Status matters. I reversed my position on luxury goods a full
    180 degrees after discovering Red pill philosophy. Conspicuous display of wealth is a requisite in mating. The display has to be calibrated to one’s target demographic of course but it must be done. Watch Youtube clips of Gad Saad if you would like to learn about how SMV is linked to luxury goods.

  58. sjfrellc

    April 25th, 2015 at 11:33 am

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/07/why-being-asshole-alpha-works-for-about-six-months/

    It has worked for me for 40+ years. I told the fm yesterday that the key to a long term relationship (LTR) was the male not respecting the female. She did not like it. But she had no counter. I told her that I still give her thrills and how many of her friends in LTRs can say that about their mate? After some discussion of the matter it turned out the number was zero. Other than her.

    I play “dread” with her continuously. And back it up by outrageous flirting when we are out and about together. And should the flirting turn into something more serious? I’d invite the fm to watch. And so indicate to her many times every day. Makes her hot for me.

  59. @Rollo

    I would think a Yale grad could figure out how to use the search feature.

    Making use of the search feature would be incompatible with the “hubris” app he’s currently running.

  60. As far as prior sexual relations enhancing a man’s value, that only works in certain circumstances.

    An example. Suppose you have 10 men and 10 women. No one has paired off for LTR/marriage yet. Before that happens, all ten of the women sleep with one of the men. Five sleep with man #1, three with man #2, and one each with man #3 and man #4. Now they pair off. All but one woman, the one who scores man #1, are going to be unhappy. Keep in mind that although man #3 and man #4 scored a woman, it was probably one of the lower value women, and they still have a shot now at leftovers from man #1. But those women will still be unhappy, even though they are getting a better than average man. Even the wife of man #2 will be unhappy, and he has experience with three different women! But he will probably take a man #1 leftover, since all of the above average women went for man #1.

    Experience for the man only enhances a LTR if there’s a clear separation between the slutty women he slept with and the virginal marriage candidates. We don’t have that. The carousel is contaminating the entire swimming pool. The skills the minority of men are obtaining on the carousel are only good for short-term, no commitment pump and dump.

  61. @M Simon April 25th, 2015 at 3:36 pm

    I appreciate the thought and know how it operates for you.

    I’m too experienced in life to worry about morality. I truly think Anonymous in the last Spring Break essay did the right thing (and should stop obsessing over it). I truly think men based on their natures are OK if they cheat (given motive and opportunity) and woman based on their natures should remain monogamous until their mates are dead or leave.

    If I tried to cheat my wife would first laugh, get disgusted second (because her provisioning was threatened), and then , third, move on with a different male two seconds later.

    Her SMV is +3 to mine. And I have no desire or motive to cheat because I like her, respect her and she passes every boner test. Even if I have opportunity–in my UMC existence where everyone is married and in my social circle there are very few unhappy wives– I still don’t have the desire.
    (And I’m not a pussy with one-itis. I have lots of physical skills, hobby plates to spin and am a skilled physician).

    So I find it difficult to employ SMV dread. But a wise man (and his woman) knows how important MMV dread is. Not all women are stupid (or are not on occasion). Some of them have intellectual abilities and can make a rational decision on whether remaining together is better or worse.

    It is quite a unique position I’m in monetary wise. And I’m not stupid enough to take full advantage of my situation. With personal income declining as a physician since 2008 due to a myriad of reasons (but still very adequate). Due to being 54 y.o. next month, having a WILF and realizing that 11-15 years from now, my cache of wealth will be quite good (although if I die tomorrow, I won’t regret anything), I am actually not busting my ass now to make a more substantial annual salary. It is odd, but no one ever said that Dread couldn’t be in the form of economic or provisioning dread. (In other words, staying with me is an offer she can’t refuse).A higher Beta has to do what a higher beta needs to do to get laid. I know a woman reading this would likely have a stroke, but hey it’s just us guys talking .

    I don’t have a perfect marriage. But I really, really like it. It could end tomorrow and I would have no regrets. As long as my wife occasionally “says than you for fucking me” and more frequently has sex and initiates when ovulating I’m doing OK.

  62. Calm down fellas. I was under the impression that SMV and MMV were the same for women, whereas for men its alpha fucks (SMV) and beta bucks (MMV). Rollo appears to apply a two pronged mating strategy regarding mens’ interest in women as well. Attractive and available (SMV) and attractive and restricted (MMV). I get it now.

    “[…] to understand the precariousness of it. These are the men who tend to rely on the fallacy of relational equity and the equalist hope that his wife can be expected to rationally appreciate the sacrifices […]”

    From the comments section at Relational Equity;

    (R)Evoluzione

    May 21st, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    You’re damned skippy, there’s no such thing as relationship equity. Love is not transactional, even though we toss about terms like the “sexual market,” etc.

    The most alpha men do loving things for their women solely motivated by love, not out of any sense of investment. Do it for the hell of it, because it makes YOU feel good to make her feel good, not because you think you’re racking up points on some scoreboard in the recesses of her heart and mind. It definitely doesn’t work that way.
    _____________________________________

    This is what I’m seeing as well. I don’t think red pill knowledge makes a difference to most men. I’ve mentioned a gazillion times here the baby mamas with beta providers that proliferate suburbia now. Some of those beta providers are popular guys with options. Could they be categorized as alpha? In their locales I think so. As far as red pill they already know they’re doing what many guys would not, what many people find crazy- wifing up a baby mama when other options are available and you have no problem attracting women. Red pill seems to be the conventional wisdom of our grand and great-grandparents’ generations that still permeates the undercurrents of what many people *really* think inside but don’t blurt out in public. Believe me, these guys know they have options and that there’s “talk” about their situation in the ether. The baby mamas know it too.

    Yet this doesn’t change things. That’s why I say “love is blind” and there’s no overriding that.

  63. M Simon April 25th, 2015 at 4:08 pm

    My understanding of you from your posts is that you always kept frame from the beginning and never lost it.

    What that Athol Kay post was meant to warn about and what Rollo’s Children with Dynamite essay was trying to say is that if someone lost frame to a dominant woman and lapsed into a Beta frame, then learning game and upping the Alpha (asshole), without comfort stores, then he is just an asshole. You lose. She leaves.

    I’ve seen it happen in real life for colleages. Upping the asshole Alpha with no comfort stores. Poof, the wife walks away with cash and prizes.

    I admire your life’s story (for red pill awareness). But you never lost frame and were always Alpha. Not all of us are that skilled. I’m skilled, but I’m like that 79% where 80% is true Alpha.

  64. @Tom
    I’ll look him up
    @SilvrBk
    The shame part I think is a safety feature for people are get scared on a sexual way from someone etheir going or staying. For me Shame got me into the red pill because it was overused like a bullhorn at a cross country race. Their comes a point where social conventions lose their hold on you as you only get negative feedback from them over and over again.
    A good example of this is social acceptable violence. SJW can talk how violence makes society a horrid brutal existence. However it’s for me something I think flawed to use shame in trying to rid oneself of violence. Rugby like the gladiators used violence and where envyied by people all over Rome because they could act out the desires of the masses. A good thing shame is used for is social repression. Why is the US the biggest porn producer in the world yet very puritant?
    The are so many paradoxes that result in some of humor and than hopefully change.

  65. Rollo, from your AFC Social Conventions posting;

    “Despite of all this, the odds that you’ll die from a form of cancer, heart disease, smoking or obesity related diseases, or even an alcohol related traffic fatality far outweigh any risk of dying from a venereal disease in western society. The mortality rate for for contracting gonorrhea, syphilis, chlamydia, herpes and even HIV pale in comparison to many – in some cases more easily preventable – diseases.”

    You didn’t list HPV, which is the most common, and which can lead to cancer in both men and women.

  66. Mad Yale Grad
    April 25th, 2015 at 4:33 pm

    That is the most unintelligible group of words I have ever seen posted in the comments section. What actually is your agenda?

  67. Striver, I would say that more sexual experiences for a man enhances him. That man. I didn’t imply that it helped a Long Term Relationship. It’s axiomatic that the #1 Alpha is not good at an LTR. He either gets killed in battle or he next’s the woman.

    The stunt by Anonymous, was a “pause that refreshes” in his marriage. Coming clean and admitting it to his wife will do nothing but put a shiv in him.

  68. “You didn’t list HPV, which is the most common, and which can lead to cancer in both men and women.”

    I shake my head at the lack of understanding the general public has–let alone alleged Yale grads– as to the difference between absolute risk and relative risk.

  69. Striver
    April 25th, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    It turned into the happy hunting ground for me. I Nexted until one of them decided “I’m sticking with you no matter what”. The Nell (Dudley DoRight) scenario. I saw that in her. She avoids expressing it as much as she can (not much power there) but that type of desire can be found even among the sluts. You just have to go through a lot of them. And she was never (despite being a 9) an avid carousel girl. She was only looking at Alphas and to this day expresses disdain for Betas.

    Some days she wants me to Beta up. I tell her that if I did that you would lose interest. Every time I test that in a small way she loses interest big time.

    Anyway – having kids changes things. They need intact families.

  70. sjfrellc
    April 25th, 2015 at 5:05 pm

    That sort of behavior has enhanced my relationship. I tell her, “The way to get rid of dread is to want me more than any other woman does.” So far she has always risen to the occasion. I remind her of that. “You can’t win by fighting, only by wanting me more.”

  71. sjfrellc : That sells a shit ton of “healthy” food, statins and lottery tickets. Where’s the incentive to wise up the chumps?

  72. sjfrellc
    April 25th, 2015 at 4:43 pm

    I admire your life’s story (for red pill awareness). But you never lost frame and were always Alpha.

    Actually, I was as Beta as they come until age 18 when my very first GF wized me up. It is unusual to get Red Pilled by a woman. Doubly so back in 1962. Funny enough I was one of her plates. She had at least 4 spinning during the time I was with her. I eventually “lost” her to a divinity student who promised to make an “honest” woman out of her. Ah. Well. It did hurt a LOT at the time. But from the bottom of my heart – “thank you Joan where ever you are.”

    And interesting enough she was an older woman (22), 8 (going on 9) with C+’s and very bright. Her specialty was training virgins. Among them was me. She even took me to meet her parents. I was not into “eating” at the time or it might have lasted a little longer.

    I have no idea what she saw in me. Maybe my inner Alpha?

    And yes. For a LTR you need to provide something other than cream. But not too much. As you know – it is a dance.

  73. A Definite Beta Guy: “What the fuck is with this Yale Grad dumbass?”

    Having associated with them, I suspect your answer is embedded in the question.

    Jeremy: Likewise, I’m sure.

  74. M Simon
    April 25th, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    One of the things she saw in me was that I had incipient Alpha game. The first time she tried to get me in bed I declined because she was having an emotional reaction to some old memories. And I was a virgin just crazy to have sex and finally become a “man” at the time.

    But in the back of my head I wanted my first time to be as perfect as possible. Besides the drinking to get warmed up (starting at about 8 or 9 PM) it lasted until about 7 AM. The sun was coming up and I was a very happy young man walking home in the cold. (She couldn’t have overnight guests. )

  75. M Simon, if you were a convert to the red pill at 18 and remained Alpha from then on, I would call that you were Alpha out of the gate in the race of life. H/T to you.

    So my essay links to Athol’s essay and two of Rollo’s was in regards to losing frame and trying to wrestle it back in a LTR. There is no doubt Alpha is desired as a prerequisite. Having the ability to dance with the right amount of Beta (in marriage with kids) without going full out Blue Valentine is necessary. Good thing we are not young ones these days. And its a good thing us old married folks are getting laid without the constant assault of HPV and cancer which is guaranteed if you are like MYG and think about it.

  76. @ KFG.

    “That sells a shit ton of “healthy” food, statins and lottery tickets. Where’s the incentive to wise up the chumps?”

    Point well taken. The cartel of petroleum, government bureaucracy, doctors and lawyers fees, frivorce courts Etc. can hoodwink most of the people most of the time.

    I wasn’t there, but wising up the Gang of Men 20,000 years ago was probably de rigueur. And if anyone is listening it is still appropriate in this enclave.

  77. This still hits a cord on what it may have been like that long ago.

    Tool
    We are tools game is utilizing those tools for new survival.

  78. MSimon:

    You are at the right end of the bell curve. You got trained in your teens by an older woman. Most men do not get that training.

    If you’re the Fonz, there are still Richie, Ralph, and Postie. And lamer guys that couldn’t even make it on the TV show. There are always going to be more guys in the middle, average guys, than the top guys. Game is never going to change that. Guys in the middle always have to wait for it and work for it harder.

    The top women actually have fewer partners than the middle women. The top women know they don’t have anywhere to go. Plus they don’t meet 9 or 10 level men very often anyway.

    It is the mid-tier women that get all screwed up. They can get sex so much easier than the mid-tier men it’s not a fair contest. They used to have to be virginal, but no longer. Now they maybe have a night or two when they’re young with some more exciting guy, and they’re ruined. Or they’re willing to trade off one average guy for another and blow up a family in the process. Plus they’re either pissed because they’re not a top woman, or actually overestimate their value because they can get sexed up so easily in today’s world.

    Like a lot of things in society today, people at the right end of the curve are shielded from the worst of it.

  79. I’d like to add that intact families aren’t the end of the story.

    Just because parents don’t get divorced doesn’t mean everything is okay.

    Although Rollo’s already written about this, I just want to share a little to emphasize the point.

    Part of par-for-the-course RP, IMO, should be about how to raise children to be RP aware — at least boys. A throwback to the old days where it was standard practice to teach boys how to hunt, fish, make a fire, and do basic manly things.

    And being able to respond to boys’ questions about girls and relationships with them. I was completely out in the weeds growing up. My dad never once talked to me about anything having to do with girls. I was left to my own devices. I had absolutely zero guidance not only with how to function and develop into a man, and how to take care of myself, or how to do anything in the workshop, but with girls too.

    Absolutely nothing. So mom and dad can be married and there could be no cheating going on, but if it’s like the kids don’t exist, I don’t think it’s much better than a divorced family. I know plenty of people whose parents divorced at a young age that are infinitely closer to both of their parents than I am to either of mine.

    A boy growing up without any masculine role model and no guidance in how to be a man and how to handle himself is incredibly damaging. Possibly better than active blue-pill conditioning from either parent, but still very harmful.

    Emotional neglect fits right in here. I’ve referred to “Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect” before.

    Thinking of emotional neglect in a RP context — dads might not be able to provide any advice or even be a decent listening ear for their boys about their problems with girls if they don’t know how to.

    If the dads don’t understand what the hell is going on, that’s going to reflect in their interactions with their boy(s). How can he be a rock in that situation for his boys if he himself is completely clueless?

    We obviously evolved to be dependent on adults as children. The severe issues that neglect and abuse cause are more than enough evidence that child rearing is a huge issue we need to consider —

    — and RP is still fringe. RP parenting is, AFAIK, unheard of in the mainstream.

    IMO, the real end game is raising kids from a RP perspective, or doing something else with your life to positively influence people. Much like what Rollo’s doing here: creating and sharing.

    I always thought of creative pursuits as my children. Whether it was recording music or writing or whatever.

    Without any creative pursuits, I just feel like a drifter with no purpose in life. If you don’t have kids, and on top of that, you’re not pursuing anything to reach out and connect with and/or help other people — maybe that’s okay for personal enlightenment, but it feels empty.

    I’m still a virgin and while my lifelong woe has been being an incel, lately I’ve been feeling like I don’t even care anymore. Obviously I don’t WANT to go the rest of my life without ever experiencing what it’s like to have intercourse (I hate calling it that but the fact is I’ve never stuck my cock into a pussy once in my life), or having a minimal sex life, but I’ve already made it this far. So if it ends up that way, who gives a fuck at this point? It’s irrelevant. If you can go one year without any kind of sex at all, you can go 10 years. At least that’s how I’ve experienced it.

    It’s called Pike Syndrome, or learned helplessness. After a while you stop struggling. You can’t keep it up forever.

    What bothers me the most is the feeling of a lack of purpose. Raising kids is a form of ‘end game.’ Writing a book or a blog or whatever that actually reaches and changes people — that’s an ‘end game.’

    I feel like if I were to actually have sex with women at some point, and get beyond being an incel, the ‘end game’ for me would be writing a book about sexual deprivation, and my experiences on both sides of the fence, in order to reach people who have suffered or are suffering in the same way I was for so many years.

    The ‘end game’ would be a creative pursuit meant to reach and inspire/help other people.

    Some kind of book with a message that could really get to people and help them. Because I’ve almost committed suicide a number of times, largely on account of being an ‘incel’ — and there was never a book I could find that made me feel like anyone understood what I was going through.

    And not only that, but who also had perspective and wisdom, and wasn’t just complaining. You can find people everywhere who can relate to any complaint under the sun — but from a perspective of wisdom/calm/etc. that could actually provide a sense of peace and resolution, from someone who knows what they’re talking about and has legit ‘been there done that,’ — that’s exceedingly rare.

    Anyway, the more time goes on, and the more I’m disillusioned with women — I don’t know if it’s possible for me to be any more disillusioned with women, actually, every single trace of romanticism I ever had about them has completely, utterly evaporated at this point —

    …the more I’m concerned with the ‘end game’ of creative pursuits.

    I feel like the greatest thing I’ve gotten out of Rational Male so far has been the disillusionment. The couple meager hookups I got after applying some RP principles were almost completely meaningless and completely unsatisfying. But the detachment I’ve felt from women has been more liberating than words can express.

    And if those hookups did have any value, it was the furthering of my disillusionment with women.

    Anyway, yeah. I look at myself as a uniquely unfortunate demographic. I completely buy all this Game and RP stuff, but with a history like mine I’ve accepted that it’s likely that I’m never going to get better.

    As Glenn’s said, a pickle can’t go back to being a cucumber. I have the same patterns of behavior I had from when I was even 4 years old — self-imposed isolation, little motivation to pursue socializing. Dropping out of college in the first semester 7 years ago didn’t help, especially considering I didn’t make any friends in high school either.

    I’m still ‘young’ but given that my whole life has gone like this, I don’t think it’s really realistic anymore to expect anything to change significantly.

    But even if I end up never having sex, I can at least say in my lifetime that I’ve managed to get liberated from that desire to a significant extent.

    Biologically I still crave it as much as I’d crave anything else natural like food and water. I don’t think that’ll go away completely until I’m dead.

    But the Blue Pill projection has been completely, utterly annihilated.

    And a lot of my avoidance of women has had to do with phobic avoidance — getting them pregnant if the condom breaks, or getting an STD, or finding out they have a boyfriend and he tries to hurt me, etc. I can’t handle conflict and I basically completely avoid socializing for this reason, and I suppose sex fits right in there with my avoidance of people in general for fear of what’ll happen if I associate too much with them.

    I only mention that because I think a true RP perspective and BP disillusionment would eliminate fear of approaching women and having sex. I mean if you really saw it as no big deal, right? But due to my life experiences I have intense fears of people hurting me, or plotting to hurt me, or doing things to ruin my life, e.g. poking a hole in a condom or deliberately giving me an STD or anything else along those lines, and I never feel like I have complete control over any of those things, that people will ‘find a way’ somehow to trick me or fly under the radar, and I can’t trust them.

    So for me I think a large part of my fear of sex goes well beyond a fear of approaching women — it’s legitimately a fear of sex itself because I’m afraid of what’ll happen. For all I know this could have something to do with getting molested as a child, and also bullied by other kids in ways that would qualify as torture. I mean it’d make sense but it’s whatever. It would also explain the fact that the hookups I did have, I had panic attacks and a lot of trouble getting an erection and I wanted to leave even while it was happening, and I felt extremely uncomfortable.

    Anyway, I’ve said before and I’ll say it again how important this is.

    The other ‘end game’, if there is any, is changing your mind. I almost see getting sex as inconsequential now, compared to the change in my state of mind.

    Sex with all the beautiful women in the world could never have given me the state of mind that I’ve developed from being sexually deprived and having the good fortune to find The Rational Male and become disillusioned with how all this stuff really works.

    I know I’m going on a tangent here, but for the record, as far as “the reckoning” goes, I suppose I was inspired to share what I just did because I feel like it doesn’t matter that I’ll never have a ‘reckoning.’

    I’ve gone my whole life without sex, barring a couple experiences that are ultimately like a few drops of water in the ocean, and I don’t see that getting better any time soon.

    But I’m still happy that I found TRP and after the couple years (or however long it’s been – I don’t remember) I’ve been here and moved beyond the anger/denial phase, there is ABSOLUTELY peace of mind at the other side.

    Which is a very cool thing. I still think it’s understated — how valuable TRP is regardless of how you apply it, or don’t.

    Rollo’s said that TRP is theory, and Game is the application of the theory. IMO there is immense value even in the theory alone.

    Perhaps my biggest source of torment was thinking women — or moreover, a special woman — would be able to save me.

    That romanticism has been taken out to the shed in the back yard and shot with a 12 gauge. And I’ve been better for it ever since.

    Having a girl I hooked up with not sympathize with my panic attack and all and actually tell me to ‘grow a pair’ was a further part of my disillusionment.

    It really pissed me off at the time. But it’s a hell of an accomplishment IMO to be able to accept what’s happened to me in my life and not even carry that around with me as a form of resentment.

    It’s just hypergamy at work. She was a complete bitch, yeah, but that’s her problem, not mine.

    I don’t know if I’m coming off as really depressing or what here, but I don’t mean it that way. RP theory has given me a tremendous amount of peace. Slowly cultivating it over time as it all sinks in. It’s been taking a while but it’s definitely having an effect.

    RP theory has immense value in its own right, even outside the application of Game. I think the parallels to zen other people have mentioned (myself included) are spot on. Disillusionment’s the name of the game.

  80. @Striver
    Do you feel like the right is harder to stay in with today’s climate of open hypergamy?
    What can we hold on from the past that has a lasting impact on the youth? Does 27 count as youth by the way? When’s a good time to even bring up the red pill truths to your children and how do you deal society’s two lacks raising a family and handling money?
    Where do you go from 2015 does religion as a social convention have to be in place to keep the ways of the old?
    How do you lead with a balance of both alpha (family) while not losing beta overall?
    What maintains the essential fabric of a good family? With red pill help?

  81. @Jeremy

    Haven’t established that yet. Took a day off today for apartment hunting as I’ve gotta move in two months. Gonna spend this evening working on it.

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