The Gift of Anxiety

 

Well since Aunt Sue’s decided to click on the ‘echo chamber’ setting on her blog’s comment filters I thought I’d take the opportunity to retype my deleted response to her (once again) on my unmoderated blog. Aunt Sue has a big problem with competition anxiety, and since she secretly loves me, she can’t make it too obvious that she reads my blog posts regularly for inspiration. Hell, it’s almost a Friday tradition now! It’s OK dear, I’ll entertain you for the weekend. Roissy, Roosh and Dalrock send you their unrequited regards too,…

Dear Sue, you know instead of paraphrasing my perspective on this you could simply quote the bit in my post that set you off (again):

Women don’t want a Man to cheat, but they love a Man who could cheat. Naturally you don’t want to appear to be seeking the flirtation – that would be OVERT – but rather playing along with it. I have encouraged or played along with casual flirtations with my wife present that leave her with the impression that other women find me desirable. When you’ve been together long enough and a strong emotional bond has formed, you will be surprised at how many shit tests and hypergamous evaluations you can avoid just by her perception of you being a commodity that other women are attracted to. Mrs. Tomassi has told me on at least a dozen occasions that she finds it flattering that other women would find me attractive. Always remember that your attractiveness to other women is an associative reflection on your spouse’s attractiveness to hold your sexual interest in the long term.

The trick to this is how you follow up after flirting. She has to be made to feel as though she’s still the one you choose to be with even though you have obvious, provable options. Women are always unconsciously evaluating the men they are with. Her self-worth is associated with his value. This is exactly why women in the stablest of relationships will still shit test. There are precious few ways for a Man in a long standing LTR to establish social proof and demonstrate higher value better than reciprocating a flirt with other women. Nothing stimulates a tired LTR like suspicion and jealousy. Her Imagination is the most important tool in your Game tool box. The hamster doesn’t stop spinning after marriage, but it’s incumbent upon you to make sure it keeps up the pace.

The problem you have with my take on this is that you see it in an absolutist, all-or-nothing in-your-face disrespectful frame. As if every aspect of an LTR would be overshadowed by a malevolent ‘dread’ of loss bordering on emotional blackmail. You might be surprised to know I don’t actually agree with the idea of using the impending doom of ‘dread‘ per se.

If you could get past your taste for the melodramatic you’d realize that returning casual flirtations is actually a compliment to the woman a Man is with. It satisfies that internal, hypergamous doubt as to whether the guy a woman committed herself to years ago is still the Man other men want to be and other women want to fuck.

You see the problem with your perspective Sue is that you view intergender relations from a ‘security first’ priority. This is mostly due to your fem-centric conditioning, but also because you’re in a phase of life now where security means more to you than it did when you were in your 20′s or 30′s. It’s difficult to see the value of adding measured degrees of insecurity into an LTR when your long-term security becomes your paramount concern. After the Wall, women dread the idea of having to start over in a sexual market place in which they are grossly outmatched, so even the slightest deviation from the ‘security forever’ script becomes a major ego threat.

An LTR based on dread, a threat, or an implied ultimatum isn’t one based on genuine desire, and you know enough about my philosophy to understand how important real desire is to me. I think of it more as an ambient understanding that a Man is still desired by other women and this manifests in flirtatious behavior. Obviously if a guy is overtly seeking out opportunities to flaunt his flirtations with his LTR, that’d be indicative of him having other issues to resolve for himself. Guy’s thoroughly underestimate women’s sensitivity to nuance and subcommunication; it doesn’t take much to trigger her imaginings, but most guys think they need to beat her over the head with what he wants her to get; and that of course defeats his purpose – he’s too obvious.


81 responses to “The Gift of Anxiety

  • "M"

    At first I thought SW was interesting, in as much as a woman was trying to and might even be able to actually understand a bit of game, that is to say objective reality.

    Then, after reading a bit, I found her fem-centric Game 2.0 disappointing, bordering on irritating.

    Now, I just love it for the comedic value and the real game blog fodder she provides.

    The feminist is dead; long live the feminist.

  • And Balls...

    Aunt Susan’s hamster must be absolutely exhausted

  • WillieMaize24

    Friendly advice: The photo above the post is disgusting and detracts from the post. If you’re going to use a photo to illustrate something, don’t have it of someone who puts her finger tip in her mouth. The photo should be of something that draws the reader into the article. Showing anxiety doesn’t do that. People (or at least male people) want to avoid anxiety.

  • TRW

    @WillieMaize24

    Dude, hit the bar and cold approach a hog..you need calm your ass down.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Yes. Thanks, Rollo. You put a voice to what I was thinking. I told Sue her post dripped with insecurity, which it does. You enumerated the exact reasons why.

    An ex girlfriend of mine had wicked trouble with insecurity. She hadn’t hit the wall yet (or had she?). She hated that women would flirt with me; it threatened our relationship many times, and ultimately contributed to its demise. She’s now late thirties, in the peri-wallopause phase, and lo and behold, she nabbed a 50-something business leader for her man. And he, foolishly in my opinion, wifed her up.

    But he’s a business leader, and gets a ton of female attention. Since we’re still in sporadic communication, she wanted to cry about how her husband always gets hit on. I told her the same thing–that it’s a compliment to both her husband and herself. Further, she wouldn’t want a man who isn’t wanted by other women.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    Truth. Chicks often stick their fingers, and other things, in their mouths when nervous. This can be very good, or very, very bad. Picture selection was fine & appropriate. Rollo does a better job than most with his pic selection.

  • WillieMaize24

    I”m not saying Rollo doesn’t do a better job than most. But you know the Latin phrase “Evenus Homerus Noddus” (Even Homer Nods). It means even Babe Ruth strikes out once in a while.
    A better picture would have been a chick looking confused with her eyes wide open, her hair askew, and holding her head with the fingers of both hands.
    If a chick sticks something in her mouth, it shouldn’t be her fingers.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I think what frustrates Suz and the build-a-better-beta crowd is that healthy, vibrant and fun (yes, I typed “fun”) long-term relationships built upon mutual respect involve more foundational principles of Game than they’re comfortable in admitting.

    I’ve had Mrs. Tomassi tell me she thought Chris Hemsworth (Thor) was “hawt!” and I concurred, he’s a good looking dude. She then proceeds to tell me how much he reminds her of me when we met and I had long blonde hair. Flattering, but were I in a build-a-better-beta relationship I may have felt inadequate or maybe I should check her cell phone for suspicious calls.

    I don’t. I know she’s a human being and we all have our prompts. It means we’re healthy and alive.

    I was with her at my attorney’s office last night before we went to dinner. My guy’s got some top shelf ass working his front office. These girls know me and casually flirt with me while I’m waiting. Does my wife say, “HOLY FUCK, I WANT A DIVORCE NOW YOU PHILANDERER!”, no, instead she tells me at dinner, “The day you stop being attracted to beautiful women is the day I’ll think something’s wrong.”

    Why? Is it because for the past 16 years I’ve crushed every semblance of esteem from her immortal soul with my devious psy-ops to the point that she bars any thought of leaving me from her head? Or is it because we have a healthy, mutual understanding of each other and ourselves and embrace our own natures?

  • anonymous

    Husbands also deserve the gift of anxiety. Smart wives flirt just over the comfort zone to instill in the husband a desire to be his best..

  • itsme

    agreed.

    rollo, you owe me a new monitor, keyboard, and breakfast, because this morning when i saw that nasty, filthy, disgusting, gross picture of a finger tip (a FINGER TIP!!! what the hell, man!!) in that girl’s mouth, i instantly hurled the contents of my stomach.

    not cool, bro. NOT COOL.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It’s called hypergamy, look it up.

  • Stingray

    long-term relationships built upon mutual respect involve more foundational principles of Game than they’re comfortable in admitting.

    It’s partly this, but it is also in the vocabulary. You lost her on the word dread. You are speaking man talk and she is speaking female talk and you are nearly saying the same thing. Only since you are primarily writing for men, they can understand what you are saying better when you use the term dread. I think Susan is actually feeling it. I know I did when i first heard about this concept. I don’t disagree with it and I think it sound. However, hearing that word a woman’s brain will take it to the very uncomfortable extreme and we will instinctively fight against it. You are not talking about extremes, but that one word will take our minds there.

    Also, it doesn’t help that you call her Aunt Sue or ‘dear”. I thought the Aunt Sue was, at first, an endearing term you used for her. I don’t think it is any longer and “dear” definitely is not. If you want her to hear your argument, she’s not going after that.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Unlce Roosh doesn’t have a problem with it,..

  • Stingray

    Of course not. I don’t think Susan necessarily should either. But she does and you upped it, intentionally. Some women like it, some don’t. Personally, I love crap like that. My husband calls me *woman* all the time (you know, in that way feminist hate) and it is my favorite term of endearment that he uses (sugartits has a nice ring to it as well ; ) )

    But you’re messing with her. Argue or mess. You’re not going to get any where doing both. She’s trying to understand. More than most. For the most part I think she really does, but is bothered by the cads. Hence, hating the “dread”.

  • anonymous

    it’s called jealousy, look it up.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    The last thing most guys want to do is to fuck with a woman’s head. We are forced to fuck with women’s heads. As a guy you have two choices if you want to attract women:

    1) Be a super high value male

    2) Mimic the actions of a super high value male

    Both of these involve causing a woman to feel competition anxiety. With rampant hypergamy you either see to it that the hamster wheel spins or you sit home and jerk it to porn.

    Women react on a visceral level to the idea of making them feel any kind of “dread”, but they also hate the idea that a low value man can learn how to fly in under the radar. It would be the equivalent of an ugly woman somehow being able to convince you she’s hot just long enough for you to marry her.

  • Carlos

    “Husbands also deserve the gift of anxiety.”

    The word ‘deserve’ is tipping your hand; you are writing from a place of anger and revenge.

    “Smart wives (…)”

    You are belittling wives (and – naturally – women) by drawing divisions between the average (in this case “stupid wives”?) and – presumably – yourself. This is the same type of subconscious put-down as the now-nearly-ubiquitous “strong woman” meme; the term itself implies that the noun would have the opposite meaning without the coupler.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    The true irony of all this is that the same women raging about disrespect, or being psychologically manipulated (even in the most indirect of instances) are the same ones dutifully watching Dance Moms, TMZ, The Bachelor, Tyra Banks, etc. and the like for their required dosage of vicarious indignation.

    https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/indignation/

    In the absence of indignation, women will actively manufacture it for themselves.

    Better an undercurrent of measured indignation focused on yourself than a bored LTR giving herself adrenal injections of indignation. Women don’t get off on dutiful respect, they get off on indignation.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Men are born into the strictures of hypergamy, we deal with it from the time we get our first hard-on. Marriage is no insulation from it, religion is no insulation from it.

    Tit for tat appeals for female provoked jealousy only highlights her ignorance of the male experience.

  • Survivorman

    “Jealousy” can only happen if a man fails this very basic “shit test”..

  • Doc

    “If you could get past your taste for the melodramatic you’d realize that returning casual flirtations is actually a compliment to the woman a Man is with.”

    Absolutely! When I’m with a woman and go home with her, rather then the women that were flirting with me and making it obvious, that says that I find the woman I’m with more desirable, attractive, and hotter than any of the women that I was flirting with.

  • Leap of a Beta

    Thanks for the post Rollo. I was extremely frustrated with Susan’s idea that stability in a relationship is created by both people being touchy feely about it. I usually lurk the comments until a good conversation comes along, but couldn’t even enter into that one. Doesn’t help that she’s actively policing other blogs and kicking out any ‘enemies’ based on differing opinions – even if those opinions are well thought out and rational.

    Flirting with other women is showing that you continuously chose the one you’re with. Its creating stability in the relationship by the man enforcing the stability and demonstrating that he has the control. To go to Athol language – he’s the pilot, she’s the co-pilot.

    Flirting isn’t about making her jealous or any other shit – that’s all on her end. A quality man simply flirts because he’s a quality man that will attract quality women. Any reaction she has is her own reaction, her own responsibility, and her own problem. She shouldn’t have doubts that you chose her to begin with – that’s a different relationship problem all together.

  • Johnycomelately

    Dude, get a life.

  • jimmy

    Another fine example of women’s reality not intersecting with their perception. The umbrella that fits over many things women say or have an opinion on seems to be rooted in the fact that a wire in their brain between reality and perception has been snipped. I guess the break through moment for any guy trying to better understand women is when they come to realize this fact. Women are welcome to their own opinions on any matter but they are not welcome to their own facts. The real humor occurs when they try to justify one when a difference between the two exists.

    A side note:
    The movie Eyes Wide Shut touches on this post’s subject.

  • dragnet

    “You see the problem with your perspective Sue is that you view intergender relations from a ‘security first’ priority. This is mostly due to your fem-centric conditioning, but also because you’re in a phase of life now where security means more to you than it did when you were in your 20′s or 30′s.”

    The usual brilliance from you, Rollo.

    This post is great because it also goes some ways toward helping guys to understand the dynamics of the anxiety they would be wise to exploit. When you read the ‘Dread’ post at Roissy’s, it’s not hard to imagine some guy taking it way over the top. What needs to be made crystal is that the light touch is best with these things.

  • g2-c99b446c13a5e9761c87b255bc7606b6

    Is someone riffing on my own “echo chamber” post over at Sue’s?

    I thought after she axed one of my comments some time back that my explanation would smooth things over.

    Nope. She deleted my conciliatory follow-ups, too. Sounds like she’s would up way too tight.

    No loss, skipping her site. She seems as though she wants women to be both flesh and fowl. “Smart slutting” is like modern day “Compassionate Conservatism”. Trying to ride the middle of the road just gets you screwed anally by guys telling you what you want to hear.

  • dave

    I suppose I am not a quality man. But the more I learn about all of this, the more getting off the planet seems a good idea. It’s hell and there is seemingly no escape.

  • AS1

    @Dave

    No worries man, all of us have been there unplugging from the Matrix. It’s a phase that will pass, as long as you let it go and “really” understand women, the “fem-centric” reality and adapt to it.

    To OP: Another great post Rollo, as usual. It’s funny how when I look back at past relationships and see that I would do things like these without even knowing. Finally, I understand why some of the women were so attached to me.

  • Badger

    I knew there’d be a juicy back-and-forth about this one. Susan has gone off on Roissy’s “dread” concept before, and despite my argument that the Roisster is tongue-in-cheek and that this kind of stuff is rare, she has hammered at it multiple times.

    One core difficulty with the issue of flirting with other women was highlighted by a comment from Susan herself. In the post she blasted men flirting with other women, and then vociferously praised a comment from a man which said a taken man should never, at all, in any circumstances, flirt with another women.

    …but then she left a comment that at a school event (or somesuch), a woman hit on her husband, and she found it charming and exhilarating, a preselection sign that he was desirable.

    So, dude flirts with women: bad.
    Women flirt with dude: good.

    The problem is that flirting is hardly ever one-sided; women don’t usually come up to men and start complimenting them on the fly, it usually evolves out of casual conversation. I’ve had dozens of cases where a strictly-business conversation with a clerk or waitress turns into joking, which turns into flirting, in the natural course of the discussion. How do you judge who’s doing the actual flirting? Whoever started the conversation? Whoever escalated it? And there’s no doubt in my mind that the exact same incident can be spun different ways by the same woman depending on how she’s feeling about her “relationship:” if there are problems, she’ll use the case as evidence that he’s emtionally abusive and looking for other options, if she’s happy, it’s a sign he’s attractive to other women and they just can’t help but flirt with him.

    Athol Kay recommends a “let other women flirt with you” approach, and there’s been plenty of discussion at MMSL about it with him always noting that you can’t look like you’re trying to bag other chicks.

    Anyway, Susan is tightroping what I’ve come to call “The Cliff”:

    http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/deti-on-the-cliff/

    The Cliff is the phenomenon that small changes in a man’s behavior can produce huge changes in a woman’s perception of his value. One too many texts or phone calls, or one failed shit test, and a guy goes from charming rake to simpering beta in her eyes. Women want men to be how they want them to be when they want them to be so, and if you deviate too far from their narrow-banded expectations you’re either an asshole or a chump.

    Susan writes that she is “very concerned” that these tactics are being encouraged by game bloggers. The thing she doesn’t seem to grok is that this stuff is on the market because compliment-and-cuddle game is a failure. If women were banging nice beta guys with all the passion of a horny cheerleader, game wouldn’t exist. Very few people want to confront these dark natures of humanity, let alone see others learning to exploit them (setting aside those naturals who already do).

    A final thing is that Susan has said her real-life focus groups are women in the “top 20% of SMV.” So these are girls who are attracted to men at the very apex of the pyramid – men who, in their normal course of being, will exhibit the abundance mentality, outcome independence, natural aloofness, and straight-up asshole behavior. Men who never had to be taught game, they are attractive and all the women know it. What Susan sees as “betas” in her children’s lives are young-20′s men with double-digit partner counts, exceeding the national median before they’ve even left their first jobs.

    So what Susan sees as “game going mainstream” is really a sharpening of the arbitrage at the top of the SMV pyramid. In other words, I think she’s massively overrating how much this stuff is penetrating society, in the packaged form that bloggers and PUAs deliver it. What I do think is happening is that the curtain is being pulled away on the golden 20%, and what most women (50-60%) will do for them they wouldn’t dream of doing for your average corporate beta, and the doubletalk that is the female insistence on “commitment.” And young men (until they are marriage-minded) are saying “commitment is for suckers.”

  • Badger

    To put it shorter: if you hear a woman talking about degrees of a trait, like “I like a nice guy, but not TOO nice,” you’re dealing with The Cliff. The issue is that what a woman sees as a very clear and distinct delineation between say, nice guy and suckup, is usually in fact a very slim (and often ever-changing) distinction in behavior. The corollary is that you can usually recover from too much alpha/not enough beta, but rarely can you recover attraction once you’ve fallen off the cliff, so your safe bet is to hang on the alpha side (be aloof, be bold, don’t be providing) and introduce the beta stuff later on.

  • Bj

    RT, you’re engaging with an emotionally charged being in an analytical argument, a battle whose W.O.M.D are the very tools which make you a man, logic and reasoning, for which there are no comparable counter measures

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Sweet jesus…I just read her post.

    Are women really so dense as to believe that they don’t do the same kind of shit, day in and day out, or are they just THAT good at convincing everyone otherwise?

    As if women aren’t constantly angling to secure backup. Most attractive chicks have three men lined up just in case something happens to their relationship. But of course as long as there is plausible deniability that’s all that matters. “Who, him? He’s just a friend!”

    It is also evident by her post that she lacks the ability to understand that negative emotions do not always poduce results. In her world if a woman cries it is ALWAYS a bad thing. “B-b-b-b-b-but daddy made mommy CRY!” Nevermind the fact that there was no real harm done and that the tears actually served to strengthen the relationship.

  • Höllenhund

    Judging by Ms. Walsh’s behavior in the past few months we can safely conclude that any website or blog that doesn’t openly and resolutely dedicate itself against gynocentrism and gynonormativity will inevitably become a gynocentric quasi-feminist echo chamber as opponents of gynocentrism are driven away and banned. Her blog is an obvious example. Out of mere curiosity I checked out the comments to her post entitled ‘Which Comes First – Promiscuous or Crazy?’. Again her regular commenters are repeating their tired old nonsense: ‘men are hypergamous too, they only notice the prettiest girls’, ‘betas don’t really want girlfriends, they just want to sleep around like the alphas’ etc. even though male commenters have patiently explained to them numerous times before that they’re wrong. It’s no use, I guess. Might as well throw peas against the wall.

  • mmaier2112@sbcglobal.net

    I tend to go with Ferris Bueller’s thoughts here: “You can never go too far” followed by “Audacity is 90% of the battle”.

    Always escalate with women, even if (especially if?) you’re smirking while you do it.

    You’ll get the laugh eventually.

  • Candide

    Susan’s blog is now serving as a live lesson for recently Red Pilled men: Yes, the NAWALTs are exactly like that too.

    As I jokingly observed once, despite Rollo’s ironic nickname for her blog as Hooking Up Beta, I’ve never ever seen her throw a beta a bone. However, the few cads whose photos she’s seen and confirmed as good looking have got “joking” offers from her to introduce them to some nice & attractive girls in her focus group.

    IMO it’s a waste of time explaining these Red Pill concepts to women, even the ones who hang out on these manosphere blogs.

    “It is also evident by her post that she lacks the ability to understand that negative emotions do not always poduce results. In her world if a woman cries it is ALWAYS a bad thing. “B-b-b-b-b-but daddy made mommy CRY!” Nevermind the fact that there was no real harm done and that the tears actually served to strengthen the relationship.”

    Hear, hear. My father drilled this into my head although he never explained it. From a very young age, I realised that women like crying and can switch it on & off at will, unlike us. They love a man who can make them laugh AND cry, although they’d never mention the latter on their dating profiles!

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Should read- negative emotions do not always produce NEGATIVE results

  • Höllenhund

    We also shouldn’t forget that she fancies herself as some sort of spokesperson for all young people dissatisfied with the current SMP. I’m pretty sure she’s looking for more mainstream attention in the form of a book deal or something similar. This logically means banning people who oppose the idea that men should selflessly serve the female imperative, in order to keep the maximum number of women on board. To fail to do so means social excommunication and she wants to avoid that.

  • Höllenhund

    By the way, older, experienced MRAs have stated that it’s completely pointless to try to have a rational debate with women about these issues. They’ll always get angry or react in some other irrational way, and you can bet white knights will immediately come to their defense. It’s a waste of time. As Alte said, “if you have a rational argument, take it to the men”.

  • Höllenhund

    OT: I just had a funny idea. Women always complain that ‘porn gives men unrealistic expectations about sex and women in general’. Well, let’s offer women a compromise. From now on, men will only watch porn featuring completely average-looking women who only have sex after being properly and respectfully seduced (i.e. no ‘Dark Game’ and whatnot), and women will only read romance novels and/or watch romantic movies featuring completely average men like computer programmers, plumbers, unemployed college graduates, office workers and so on. Would women accept that?

  • umslopogaas

    @Rollo:

    Many thanks for this article. Very interesting analysis. Having been banned myself at HUS I wholeheartedly second your entire premise.

    Imo, at this point engaging in logical debate with 99.9% of all women is a waste of time, manifestly counterproductive. You can try to be rational, you can try to use sweet, inoffensive words…but so long as practically every woman remains a weak and fallen creature…she will actively hate, hate, haaaaate you…for showing her a mirror.

    Women prefer the comforting lie to the brutal, honest truth. They prefer blissful ignorance to painful education and will react with fury to anybody suggesting the are less then perfect, shining beings.

    Witness hereby also…the inherent fascistic tendencies women display in order to counteract men’s superior ability vis a vis logic and rational discourse: banning, ad hominems, shaming, reframing etc.

    It’s exactly has TFH writes: any democratic country allowing women into the public sphere is doomed to degenerate into a fascist policestate before long due to – amongst other things – women’s inherent fascistic nature (herd mentality, fanatical conformity, exclusion of unbelievers).

    HUS is just the newest example of this female constant. I had hoped Susan Walsh would have turned out to be an ally, we sure as hell would have appreciated her.

    Yet in a short span of time, a mere few months, she has increasingly shown her true face. Whereas before you had other opinions, critical thinking and thus fruitful, pluralistic discourse…you know have total *Gleichschaltung*: Susan on an ego trip spouting out the newest party line and an assortment of women and schlubs, court cringers and sicophants bleating out their eager approval.

    Where is Yohami? Rollo Tomassi and all the others? Even I, a comparatively small fish, have had the pleasure of being kicked out.

    And remember how she used to call the Manosphere an ‘echo chamber’? That is just….well…heh.

  • Höllenhund

    My guess is that we’re going to witness the proliferation of Girl Game as female hypergamy becomes more and more frustrated in the West. It’ll basically be about grooming ‘reformed’ sluts how to a) skillfully hide all signs of their past promiscuity b) generally fake the traits of the traditional ‘good wife’ in order to snag a husband. HUS will be one of the vehicles for that and all this will eventually do men more harm than good.

  • Retrenched

    “Are women really so dense as to believe that they don’t do the same kind of shit, day in and day out, or are they just THAT good at convincing everyone otherwise?”

    Nah, I’d say it’s more like they’re that good at convincing THEMSELVES. I think it’s self-deception more than anything else.

    Which is why Susan is banning the red-pill comments over there. Self-deception is hard when other people come in with facts and logic to disprove your cherished myths.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    despite Rollo’s ironic nickname for her blog as Hooking Up Beta, I’ve never ever seen her throw a beta a bone.

    http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/02/24/relationshipstrategies/can-this-attraction-be-saved/

    The prosecution rests its case.

  • itsme

    Yet in a short span of time, a mere few months, she has increasingly shown her true face.

    you can physically remove a borg from the collective, but you can never truly disconnect it. their fundamental programming is always present, it’s what makes a borg a borg. and so it is with women.

    i’m just surprised it took people this long to realize that she was a gal qaeda sleeper agent.

  • itsme

    plenty of women already do this. but they always have tells, they always leave behind evidence. sometimes it’s as easy as looking at their facebook page to find it.

    csi: manosphere would probably not be a hit amongst the female demographic.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    A visceral reaction resulting from a photo that illustrates a visceral reaction.

    My work is finished here.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I see the error of my ways, and repent of my sins.

  • umslopogaas

    @itsmee:

    i’m just surprised it took people this long to realize that she was a gal qaeda sleeper agent.

    Heh, well I guess the warning signs have been there for quite some time. I for one *wanted* to believe she’d be different.

    Like…part of me doesn’t want to accept the facts in this matter, they seem altogether too hideous.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Sometimes the irony just writes itself,…
    http://neecysnest.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/sigh/

    Marellus (@Sazelus)
    Mar 19, 2012 @ 06:52:43

    Neecy.

    Do you know about the disagreement between Susan Walsh and Rollo over flirting in LTR’s ? This can make a good post from your perspective.

    REPLY
    Neecy
    Mar 19, 2012 @ 08:42:32

    Marellus thanks for the post idea! It is indeed a good one that needs to be adressed. I went and read Susans post didn’t see where the argument was between her and Rollo (was it in the comments section?? I refuse to vosit Rollo’s page. But Rollo is a pig IMO. he has been married for over 15 years & some of the stuff he promotes shows what kind of sorry ass man he is. i feel sorry for his wife and daughter. I really liked Susans post and she hit it on the head. And yes i will write a post from my perspective on this topic. Thanks again b/c its a great topic!

    I’m on pins and needles,..

  • YaReally

    I actually like my women to flirt around, because what guy could even compare to me. :) They just come back to me extra attracted after realizing that I’m better than the other guys and my prize mindset solidifies even further.

    It’s a combination of how unreactive I am to their flirting with other guys (no jealousy), subtle AMOG skills, and how shitty 99.9999% of guys’ game is.

    Watch the hamster scramble if you reply with something like “dunno I’m pretty busy this week” followed by just one word answers or a week of radio silence after she tried to make you jealous. It’s epic lol

  • YaReally

    “The last thing most guys want to do is to fuck with a woman’s head. We are forced to fuck with women’s heads.”

    Yup. I WISH I could just be Mr. Nice Guy and be like the dude in the Pedestal letter post. I love being romantic and all that sappy shit. I just learned the hard way that there’s a time and place for that (not during the initial seduction lol) and that you have to balance it out so she doesn’t lose attraction.

    It’s not even that she’s a bitch or anything, or that she does it consciously. She has no idea that the things she tries to make you do will make you unattractive to her. Same way a child doesn’t understand that eating cookies for dinner will give him an upset tummy. As the parent it’s your responsibility to say “Hush, I know best, eat your vegetables.”

    “It would be the equivalent of an ugly woman somehow being able to convince you she’s hot just long enough for you to marry her.”

    lol isn’t that pretty much like 90% of marriages these days anyway? :) “Ring’s on the finger, no more blowjobs, time to let the good behavior slip, and time to replace Pilates with Chocolate!” The dread and anxiety are what keep a woman paying attention to her SMV…that’s a win/win for both people in the relationship. Men keep their shitty jobs they hate to keep bringing in the dough because they “dread” their woman leaving them if they can’t provide. Why is that acceptable dread and this isn’t especially when staying in shape and beautiful benefits a woman in the longrun in general?

  • YaReally

    Yup. This is how I frame my Open Relationships. “I might go wander off, but I’ll be safe about it if I do and I’ll always come home to you babe.” Girls won’t admit they’re okay with it and will try to shit-test me on it, but the difference in attraction when she knows I have other options and choose her over them VS when she knows I have nothing else on my plate is significant.

    Any guy who doubts this should take his girlfriend to a restaurant, wear his suit and do himself up all fancy, and (competently lol) flirt with the waitress, then see what kind of sex he gets from his girl when he gets home.

  • YaReally

    Stick it out and learn to play within the fucked up system. Look at it as an opportunity to better/master your sex/love-life.

    You didn’t throw the Chess board out when you learned the Knight can only move in an L shape. :)

  • YaReally

    “So, dude flirts with women: bad.
    Women flirt with dude: good.”

    Actually ya, that’s a really good point. If you take your girl to a bar and approach and flirt with some girls, it’s not the same as if you walk in and the shooter girl hugs you and calls you by name and rubs her tits on you and 3 other girls come up to you through the night and hang on your every word.

    This is part of why going out, even in a relationship, is important. Have a place where you’re socially proofed and go out without your woman. She won’t sit at home thinking “I bet he’s flirting with other girls” she’ll think “I bet those sluts are flirting with him!!”

    “The thing she doesn’t seem to grok is that this stuff is on the market because compliment-and-cuddle game is a failure. If women were banging nice beta guys with all the passion of a horny cheerleader, game wouldn’t exist”

    Yep. Soon as women provide an alternative that works as good or better than learning some basic game does, I’m sure we’d all be happy to adapt their proposed method. Unfortunately most of us have been burned repeatedly by it and watched other guys get burned repeatedly by it.

  • YaReally

    “They love a man who can make them laugh AND cry, although they’d never mention the latter on their dating profiles!”

    Yep, there’s a reason soap operas and reality TV shows don’t just film people standing around having completely healthy stable relationships. Girls want to feel a range of emotions from a man. It’s good for her to be upset once in a while. Not only does it make her feel alive and like she’s not with a dial-tone bore of a beta, but when you calmly pass the tantrum shit-test your ability to handle any drama the world throws at you is re-enforced which reassures her that she has a real alpha male who can handle his shit.

  • Furor Feministae – Female Discourse Culture & the Pointlessness of Debating Women « UMSLOPOGAAS

    [...] was foaming out of the mouth. His comments were censored and he evicted. He subsequently wrote an article about this episode on his own blog. Finally, just like Doug1 and Rmaxd, I myself have also been recently banned at HUS [...]

  • umslopogaas

    Heh.

    Inspired by your analysis, Rollo, I’ve written an article of my own regarding male-female communication.

    http://umslopogaas.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/furor-feministae-female-discourse-culture-the-pointlessness-of-debating-women/

    I’m very interested in your thoughts.

  • Neecy

    What’s the irony Rollo? The fact that you are encouraging men to instill fear and anxiety in women they are supposed to care about , love and protect??

    We are not talking about booty calls here who mean nothing. We’re talking women that MEN have made a conscious choice to be in a LTR with. it boggles my mind on how you could claim to love nad care about someone and yet want to instill fear and anxiety in them by disrepsecting them in front of other women who are creating a tension situation. Thinking solely about YOURSELF is certainly not a trait to be found in a married man or a man who has made the decision to be in a LTR. All you care about is making your wife or women feel fearful and full of anxiety by you feeding into flirting by other women.

    That’s sick IMO.

    I don’t believe that a man being flirted with by other women needs to be rude or obnoxious in turning them away but a real man is going to REMOVE himself as nicely and as cordially as he can from the situation as to look out for the best interest of the person HE CLAIMS TO LOVE AND CARE ABOUT! He is not thinking” yeah lemme instill some anxiety in this B%@$$# so she recognizes how desirable I am and how many other options I have” That’s childish and insecure behavior!

    Now I do not understand or agree with why Susan didn’t let your post go through bc it was respectful and all, but i still agree with her that women should avoid men who are seeking to instill anxiety in thier partners for selfish reasons. That is not what LOVE is about and you should know better!

  • deti

    Neecy:

    “dread” is useful to bring a woman back in line after she has stepped out of line and destabilized the relationship. Sometimes, dread is the only thing that will bring it back from the abyss.

    A woman who lapses into not appreciating what she has should be made to feel for a time what her life could be like without what she has.

    Moreover, if she perceives her man as being low value, his making clear that he can and will walk or that he has options can raise his value. Or at least it can make clear to him how much or how little she values him or the relationship.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    The irony is that you’ll never be able to understand my perspective on Susan’s comment threads, nor will you grasp the irony of your own take based on the non-reading of anything I had to say on the topic, but yet you’ll gladly fabricate them for yourself to come to the conclusion you would’ve already made even if you had.

    So, essentially you’re going to formulate an opinion based on the loosest of understanding about what you’ve read from others is my position, deliberately ignoring any reading about what is in fact my premise, and then attempt to convince me of the error of my position with shame? Got it.

  • Flahute

    A woman like Neecy only flirts with men she wants to fuck. Since a woman like Neecy harbors insecurities about her desirability, when she sees her man flirting with another woman, she interprets his behavior as wanting to fuck the other woman and as a rejection of her. And that hurts. She says that she feels disrespected, but what she really feels is undesired. Her self-esteem takes a big hit.

    Neecy has most likely never had an LTR with an alpha. What a woman like Neecy doesn’t understand is that for a man who gets positive attention from women, flirting is just for fun. It happens often and with many women and doesn’t have to lead anywhere. Sure, he knows he could probably take things to the next level, but a guy like Rollo has a better option. His wife understands this.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Neecy, I’m not trying to pick on you, but when I read your blatantly, and admittedly, uneducated comment about what you thought I was proposing I knew exactly what you’d type last night.

    Unlike fem-centric blogs and forums, I wont censor comments I diametrically disagree with because I believe it contributes to a better understanding of plugged-in people, male or female, completely disconnected with what’s right in front of their noses.

    However, on this blog, a word of advice for the ladies; if you want to play on the Men’s field, come educated. If you want to prove your point, you better know what the hell it is that’s being discussed. When you don’t, not only do you reveal your willful ignorance, but you insult the participants in the discourse who actually did take the time to read and comprehend what was being proposed. By my metrics that was over 4,200 people on the day of this post.

  • Fred Rotten

    @ Neecy

    Second paragraph, third sentence: “it boggles my mind on how you could claim to love nad…”

    No one here ever claimed that they love nad. That’s an unfounded accusation, madam.

  • dc1000

    You’re a better than blogger than most Rollo. Uncle Roosh, among others, has taken to banning anyone that posts anything opposing his view points – even banning a red pill player who disagreed with his strategy. I hope you keep it real here.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I will. It comes from years of moderating the forums at SoSuave.

  • YaReally

    Neecy’s predictable post reminded me of another angle to look at the anxiety concept: it’s a good way to weed out low self-esteem women. If you make a chick with high-self esteem jealous, she’ll throw on her best lingerie and win you back (“fuck those bitches I’m hotter than them, he’s not gonna even notice other girls after tonight!”).

    If you make an LSE chick jealous she folds and gives up and cries and whines about being hurt. Both girls need the anxiety fire stoked now and then because relationships just naturally go thru phases where she takes the guy for granted and attraction dulls, but it’s a lot like how a playful Neg makes an HSE chick challenge/tease the guy back because she’s secure enough to handle it but it crushes or pisses off an LSE girl.

    And any guy who’s been trapped in the hell of a relationship with an LSE girl should understand how important weeding them out is lol

  • Neecy

    I will admit Rollo i did not *FULLY* read your post at first. i went back and actually *READ* it and yes you pointed out that trying to instill dread in your partner is not what you are getting at. But the title of your post is clear “THE GIFT OF ANXIETY

    WHY?

    You are still coming from a standpoint that instilling anxiety of some sort is okay. i don’t understand this.

    You say that men should “play along” with flirting. In some cases that could mean (the way some women flirt) that you are literally accepting offers from other women in front of your wife or SO.

    Would you say that this is just fine for women in LTR’s as well? To play along with flirty men in front of their SO’s – to the point it creates some sort of “anxiety” in her b/f or hubby? At what point will it no longer be comnfortable for you as her partner in this situation – b/c you know there is a point where its no longer cute or fun and it becomes obvious she is trying to make you jealous. Its one thing to be flattered by people paying your SO attention and its another thing when your SO is playing along and potentially causing tension or misinterpretations on the parts of the outsiders they are willfully “playing along” with in flirting.

    I have seen it all too many times. Flirting gone bad and it can get very ugly on all ends if a person is not completely aware of what they are doing.

    Also, i don’t understand why you feel you have to flirt with other women to show your wife that you are desirable?? That doesn’t make sense to me b/c a person knows if they are with a man or woman that others find desirable simply based on the way others respond and are drawn to them. IOW’s no flirting is needed on the part of a person in a LTR if others are drawn to them naturally.

    In fact, a man that is not overly moved by women coming onto him is a man I would think would be obviously more desirable b/c he is so used to it. When you are used to somehting it’s not so special nor such a commodity. A man who gets giddy with women flirting with him says (at least to me) that it doesn;t happen quite often and when it does he can’t control himself.

  • Neecy

    Hi Deti,

    Now we are talking about a whole other topic and not just flrting. A woman or even a man who has got to the point of no longer appreciating their SO is probably not over the long haul worth even trying to prove anything to b/c if they have to rely on others outside approval of you then why would you want to even be with them?

    i guess I am just not about games or proving things to people who have not already been convinced. Its either black or White with me. If you aren’t happy with me then move the fuck on and be done with it already. don’t wait for soem other men to validate me for you to suddenly realize my value. Pssh! If I am with someone who needs validation of me through others, then why is that person even with me and why would I go out of my way to prove anything to them?

    Move on and spare yourself all the crazy tactics and games of proving yourself and your desirability. that is what is wrong with the world of relationships today. people are more concerned about how others feel about their SO’s and if others are attracted to their SO’s than they are. Its just silly and childish! Be confident in the person you have chosen or move the hell on!

    A relationship is alot more about other things that many outsiders may not have a glimpse into. If a partner simply goes by what outsiders think of thier SO then all they care about is the shallow shit that should at a certain point be leveled and balanced out with the person’s character and other strengths. Outsiders are not going to know about the other part of the person that makes them desirable to you as a partner (the character). All they see is the surface.

    I’m sorry but Life is too short to prove shit to superficial people who don’t have a mind of their own!!

  • Neecy

    Hi Flahute,

    FYI I am not a jealous or insecure person for the *MOST* part. I have my insecure days but what human being doesn’t? And yeah i can admit to beaing jealous of Hugh Jackmans wifey but it is what it is. :D

    In fact, i can’t stand people in relationships who are jealous and insecure. I have been in relationships with people liek that and its no fun.

    My problem is not with flirting. my problem is with the ulterioir motives some men or women use to *try* to make their partners jealous. I just don’t think that is a healthy way to try to make yourself more desirable to your partner is all.

    Flirting should be natural and fun. Not contrived for outside reasons.

  • itsme

    i don’t understand

    it’s likely you never will. rollo explained everything in his post, and now you’re asking him to explain it again.

    do you know what a circle is?

  • itsme

    yep. plus she admits to crushing on that homo hugh jackman. more evidence supporting the profile.

  • Stingray

    that homo hugh jackman.

    That’s hysterical! Only women don’t really think about Hugh Jackman. We think about Wolverine. Mmmmmmmmmm.

  • deti

    “What I do think is happening is that the curtain is being pulled away on the golden 20%, and what most women (50-60%) will do for them they wouldn’t dream of doing for your average corporate beta, and the doubletalk that is the female insistence on “commitment.” And young men (until they are marriage-minded) are saying “commitment is for suckers.””

    This is important for a lot of reasons. What is happening is that the feminist narrative and the disaster it wrought on the sexual marketplace is being destroyed bit by bit. More and more men are discovering that the things they are being told about women just are not true at all. Men for years have been told the following false narratives:

    1. Women just want nice guys who will treat them right. FALSE. The truth is that women want alpha men who are nice only to them, treat everyone else like shit, and have sex only with them.

    2. Nice girls don’t have one night stands or hot monkey sex. FALSE. If he’s hot enough or she’s attracted enough, she’ll do whatever he wants whenever and wherever he wants. In her past she’s most likely given it up for an alpha stud, but she wants to make the beta boyfriend wait to “prove himself”.

    3. Women never cheat, and if they do, it’s because a man drove them to it. FALSE. Women cheat only a little less than men do, in LTRs and marriages. And usually when a woman cheats it’s because she just doesn’t find her LTR or husband attractive and she has checked out of the marriage.

    4. Women are pure and occupy a higher moral plane than men. FALSE. Women act ruthlessly in their own self-interest. They are capable of acting with ulterior motives and are not above lying, manipulation, duplicity and fraud to achieve their sexual or marriage marketplace goals.

    5. Women are the true romantics and the ones who want commitment. Men have to be pushed or shamed into commitment. FALSE. Men decide when commitment happens. They want commitment, but in this SMP are making increasingly rational decisions to delay marriage or forego it altogether. Men are more than willing to commit to one woman who is good looking and pleasant enough.

    6. Women want lifetime commitment and are naturally monogamous. FALSE. Women are naturally prone to serial monogamy — an arrangement in which she trades in a man every few years for a “better model”. Women are hypergamous naturally, and remain so their entire lives — whether single, married, or divorced.

    Technological, legal and economic changes over the past century freed up women to act sexually as they have always wanted to. They are increasingly feral, promiscuous, violent, independent, selfish, vulgar, profane, caustic,and boorish.

  • emmatheemo

    I can sort of understand the idea behind flirting with other women, but will first say that I never liked that LTR recommendation either, in a sense that it’s not for me (I’m naturally nervous and can get anxious too easily as it is). But the way I understood the post, it doesn’t seem like a bad recommendation to men in general. You probably don’t even have to flirt with other women to get the effect. If you’re a desirable man, they will talk to you, and then all you need is to be polite and friendly to them. Even if you aren’t extremely desirable, you can be social, and everyone talks to social people. Talking easily with women is probably all you need in a stable LTR, but creating dread or anxiety (things that sound relatively alienating…) might not be needed.

  • K

    Neecy, your angst with the ideas being presented here is merely the feeling that something is ‘false’ about what Rollo is proposing – that being, that there is some level of deception at play here when Rollo advocates taking her hamster for a spin. That’s understandable, and fair; but what is being missed is that in a healthy relationship with a man of high SMV, these interactions that inspire hints of jealousy happen naturally and without any prompting. Jealousy and insecurity aren’t markers of superficial people any more than any other natural human reaction to a situation.

    Your opposition to the idea is based on your perception that it is a false behavior. What Rollo is trying to communicate is that in order to maintain a good and healthy relationship, you must continue to behave as one with a high SMV, and one hallmark of a man with high SMV is one who has options. He is reminding readers to, even if they wish to remain entirely faithful to the relationship, that periodic shows of high SMV traits are useful to maintain your significant other’s interest in you. Falsity isn’t the pont of the article, since most men are of a higher absolute value than what they may necessarily display in the marketplace (good job, responsible human being, trying to figure out how to get laid) and definitely higher value on a social level than whatever girl they’re fooling around with.

    It’s so easy to slip on the icy brick road of hypergamy.

  • 16 Years On «

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  • Year One «

    [...] The Gift of Anxiety [...]

  • Amused Mastery «

    [...] got ran up the flag pole by femosphere pundits when I wrote my essays on Dread and Dread Games. Women don’t like overt dominance, just as they don’t like overt [...]

  • Dread Factor | barefoot in a clearing

    [...] not yet known about MMSL or the Red Pill. It wouldn’t be for a long while that I would read about anxiety and dread and understand what was going on during that [...]

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    [...] For other men it may be a more overt acknowledgement, one useful in prompting dread or reigniting competition anxiety in women. Still for others, such as Petraeus, the acknowledgement doesn’t really come until [...]

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