As a man approaches the age of his sexual market peak potential there comes a shift in the order of priority of his position in sexual strategy advantage. Most men never actualize this. For the majority of men, that is to say the 80%+ of Beta men who’ve accommodated the female sexual strategy prior to realizing their SMV potential, this can be anĀ aggravating period of their lives.
Often men are bound to financially and emotionally binding commitments to women well before that peak potential is realized. This is by design of course;Ā a design with the intent of ensuring the long term security of women exiting the short-term sexual imperatives of their Party Years. The Feminine Imperative effects this viaĀ social engineering, but few men understand that they could ever have a greater SMV potential they mightĀ realize once they mature into it prior to making those commitments.
On my SMV time line / graph there comes a pronounced shift in a man’s SMV potential just after a woman’s Epiphany Phase, and up to and after a man’s SMV peak potential age range. The social engineering aspect is effectedĀ in the form of uniquely male shame and the insisted responsibilities to fulfill women’s long-term sexual strategies. I loosely base the age range of this phase at or around 30 years of age.
I call this point of crossover the point of comparative SMV and the period between women and men’s SMV peaks the peak span years. In a generalized context, the most significant life changes men and women will experience occur within this 15-16 year span. For women, their SMV peak usually occurs at a time in which they have only begun to mature into an adult understanding of themselves. As women’s SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability it’s interesting to consider the SMP power women wield at a point in their lives when they’ve just matured past their adolescence.
For men, the progression towards their peak potential years usually begins around the point at which women’s is peaking. A man’s maturation process, the experience and the time necessary to establish himself as an SMV optimized man roughly spans that 15-16 year peak spanĀ phase. A lot of critics of this graph (in an egalitarian mindset) presume that SMV for men is, or should be, the functional equivalent of women’s. What they fail to consider is how men’s inherent burden of performance factors into hisĀ overall SMV and the time, effort and personal investment necessary to maximize his personal potential.
It’s vitally important for men to keep that in mind when they consider the whole of men’s sexual market value. Largely, men must invest 10-16 years of that peak span phase to actualize his potential.
The NBER (National Bureau of Economic Research) published a study last year which outlined the reasons why most creative and innovative breakthroughs happen in (in this case a majority of men) our late 30’s:
The authors examined the high points of the careers of both great inventors and Nobel-Prize winning scientists, and they found that the late 30s were the sweet spot for strokes of genius:
Ā Jones/NBER
Innovators have been peaking slightly later in life as the 20th century has progressed, in part because todayās scientistsĀ have more to learnĀ than their predecessors did:
Jones/NBER
Whatās more, people who excel in abstract fields, like art or physics, tend to be younger than those who win prizes in fields that require more context, like history or medicine. Another 1977 study found that physics Nobel winners were 36 on average when they did their prize-winning work, while chemists were 39 and medical doctors were 41.
If these bell curves look eerily similar to the male SMV curveĀ I introduced two years prior to them being published, it’s only because my experience in the manosphere led me to then what the researchers concluded:
So why the late 30s? The most obvious factor is education: Scientists spend ages 5 through 18 in school, and then ages 18 through 30ish getting their academic degrees. Then a few years of learning on the job, and presto! You dig upĀ an uncertainty principle. Meanwhile, scientific breakthroughs tend to be less common in old age because we invest less in learning as we get older, and our skills gradually become less relevant.
It’s a pretty fascinating study if you have the time to read it.
If you remove the Nobel Prizes and innovative achievements out of the equation I think the rough outline of the bell curve is still generally reflective of most men’s peak potentials with regard to SMV.
Realized Potentials
InĀ Mid-Life Crisis I offered that this contrived “crisis” really isn’t rooted in a man’s yearning for his younger days, but rather his coming to the realization that his SMV and peak potential put him into a state of awareness that heĀ could actualize things he previously thought weren’t possible for him. For many men this is the first time in their lives that they really have the introspection to understand the harsh Red Pill truth.
They realize options they never knew they could have, and they realize they could exercise them in ways they never expected.
They come to understand that the life decisions they’d made 10-12 years ago were based on a fulfilling long-term female sexual strategies. Now they see how that path played out for them. MenĀ find themselves in a position of having wasted that SMV peak potential byĀ accepting the responsibilities he was convinced were his duty by the Feminine Imperative in his 20s, or he finds himself experiencing the boons of that SMV and unable to truly capitalize on them because of his commitments.
It’s important to mention that there is a stark contrast between a man’s mid-life awareness of his peak SMV potential and how women experience their own 10-15 years earlier. Men experience their SMV peak with the benefit of about 12 years of maturity to reflect on while women experience their peak without that benefit. There is no comparison to how men and women experience this peak.
After roughly 15 years of obeisance to the Feminine Imperative, and for the first time in their lives, men can experience a sexual market valuation above that of the women they committed themselves to. For the first time in a man’s life the Cardinal Rule of Relationships shifts to his (potential) advantage. For men who’ve experienced a nominally sexless marriage during that time, coming to the awareness that they’ve tolerated that state for so long and combined with a new realization of their SMV, men will deductively begin taking stock of their marriages.
Granted, a majority ofĀ men don’t maximize their personal potential and their wives’ SMV can still, at least perceptively so, out class their own. This is a particularly frustrating position for men without the Red Pill awareness necessary to understand the precariousness of it. These are the men who tend to rely on the fallacy of relational equity and the equalist hope that his wife can be expected to rationally appreciate the sacrifices he’s made of himself for her and their family’s benefit.
Resented Potentials
For women in either case there is a resentment for men entering their peak phase. With few notably exceptional outliers most women realize in earnest that their SMV is well below their husband’s or the potentially acceptable men they’d prefer to be intimate with during the same age range (35-38). On some level of awareness these women understand that their sexual marketability is, perhaps for the first time, at a disadvantage.
Feminine-operative social conventions shift radically during this time because the long-term security needs side of Hypergamy takes on a new urgency as women come to the reality that their own SMV hasĀ declined. At the Epiphany Phase the frantic realization that the past short-term sexual indiscretions Hypergamy made a priority for her are no longer (and never really were) a sustainable reality creates the necessity ofĀ men to forgive them.
The readied social conventions usually revolve around men’s social contract and commitments, but the old standby of shame is always useful. At no other point in a man’s life will he be humbled (humiliated) more than in the years leading up to his peak potential years. Again, this is by design. In the meta scope of women’s sexual strategy, women cannot afford a man becoming self-aware of his role in fulfilling her strategy.
This is an interesting paradox; optimally a woman would want a man to realize his maximal potential to ensure her long-term security, but she can’t have him fully understand the role he plays in serving her sexual strategy. Thus he must be humbled, if not outright ridiculed, in his social and professional victories.Ā His confidence at this stage cuts both ways. While his confidence in his potential is attractive, women realize it’s also attractive to other women at a time when her SMV is on its decline in earnest and he’s beginning to become more aware of the game that’s been perpetrated on him during the 15 years he’s risen to that maturity.
Late Game Dread
Dread is always an effective Game principle, but the passive Dread that accompanies a man’s SMV peak years is particularly potent. I’ve explored passive orĀ softĀ Dread in the past, but I think men in their peak years need to understand the effect that unsolicited social proof as a result of increased status and SMV has on women’s (wives’) Dread during this phase ā particularly for women who’ve until then never experienced their LTR man in that context.
Red Pill savvy men understand that a woman’sĀ imagination is the most potent tool in the Game toolbox, however, this peak phase has the potential to really emphasize those imaginings and can be played to a real advantage. Since a woman has more to lose on her long-term sexual strategy’s investments these imaginings can inspire an anxiety she’s never known. For a Beta man this is usually the point at which he will double down on his placating in order to allay his woman’s fears, which in turn only reemphasizes and verifies his Beta status to her.
(Implied) Experience Teaches Best
One final point here, I should add that at no other time in a man’s life will employing Amused Mastery be so effective:
Amused Mastery is particularly effective for older men / younger women Game. Assuming youāre in reasonably good shape and have some degree of affluence, being older gives you a degree of authenticity. With maturity comes an expectation of knowledge and experience for Men. Iāve used Amused Mastery with my āpour girlsā at promo events and itās like cat nip for them. You become that Father figure to them (FILF?) that they crave, but canāt seem to get from younger guys. Thereās a certain Alpha security dynamic at play between a woman and a Man who emits an ambient vibe of having been with enough women to be able to predict her shit tests, and then pass them with a casual roll of his eyes and a knowing smirk. When a man is giving off the cues of Amused Mastery theres an unspoken presumption by women that he ājust gets itā when it comes to dealing with women.
Amused Mastery is far more effective during a man’s SMV peak because women presume that the attitude is more legitimate since a man matures slower into his peak. They expect men to have the maturity and experience to actually beĀ amused by a less experienced, less mature woman. An established man who’s made the most of his potential is presumed to have an attractive Frame into which a woman will want to become a part of.
Fem-centric society conditions men to humble themselves for fear that his confidence would be interpreted as cockiness and thus risk her rejection of him. Most (Beta) men are petrified to even experiment with Amused Mastery because they believe it would be interpreted as disrespect toward a woman, but the truth of it is counterintuitive to them. What they fail to consider is the associations women make with a man’s maturity:
First off, Ā itās a mistake to just peg 40 y.o.s in this demographic. There are plenty of early to mid thirties guys that can and do pull girls 5 to 8 years younger than themselves regularly. Funny how thereās little shaming stigma with that age difference. Itās not a manās physical age so much as what the age represents (or is perceived to) ā maturity, accomplishment, better provisioning capacity, status, etc. Do ALL men actually realize these to their satisfaction by this time? Of course not, but itās the perception that theyĀ SHOULDĀ have actualized this that is the attractant in comparison to younger guys who havenāt, nor would really be expected to. Mature Men represent this perception of assumed accomplishment and security ā exactly what women are looking for in a phase of life where their sexual marketability declines and their need for long term provisioning becomes more urgent..
Thanks Rugby. I’ve read all the link Rollo told me to and some more. I don’t see the red pill helping much once a man falls in love. When that happens all bets are off. They lose their minds. Betas might pull off alpha posturing in the dating scene but once they go crazy for a girl its game over. Once real alphas go crazy for a girl its also game over. Love is the most powerful emotion in the world. Unless we can prevent that, there is no red pill.
@Mad Yale Grad
Ok here’s what I got
Just came back from a Allison kruss lead belly concert with her brother. Robert plant was their will some other folks. Here’s a song that comes really close to what may answhere your question https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbN_nmxAGk
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kfg
10 years ago
Right. And until we can keep shit from falling down there is no theory of gravity.
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Striver
10 years ago
@rugby I think the guys on the right of the bell curve – the guys with options, who can get women fairly easily – they have women flake on them, but they can replace the woman. The average guy has to work a lot more to replace the woman. Just the same as economics, a rich guy can ride out a job loss where the average guy might lose his house. Guys with options have more rolls of the dice. I’m fine with Game, I just don’t think it will scale. What is the average guy going to do to… Read more »
@Striver Thanks for allowing me to learn from that. My uncle in Utah is Mormon and I love him very much every time I saw him growing up he was having a divorce and losing something financial he didn’t an won’t care about money as much as his daughters who almost get taken away everyone his having a divorce. This was his third and I sat next to him one day after killing a timber raddlesnack and he looked at me in ah. I asked him why because I didn’t want to kill it. He told me it was because… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“As womenās SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability”
“Hot women are awesome. Unavailable, frigid or otherwise unfeminine women who are hot are frustrating.
Would you buy a Lamborghini if it had a 2-stroke lawnmower engine in it?ā
A few of the beta providers I know are high SMV in their local sexual markets with options to date younger, child free women but they fell in love with baby mamas. Can you explain that? Is ātrue loveā really a thing?ā Y’know, we can’t judge anything from outliers, but one of the greatest betas in history has to be Mike Mussina. Dude was a Stanford grad (economics) in under four years. An All-Star pitcher whose career might just be enough to make the Hall of Fame. He grew up an all-sport athlete (baseball, yeah, but football too) in PA.… Read more »
Sun Wukong
10 years ago
Oldest plate I was spinning (41) keeps hounding me for time and sex lately despite my basically ignoring her. The more I say that I’m busy, the more protesting and offers I get from her. She tries to make me jealous telling me about other dudes she’s dating; if you’re dating all these dudes but going out of your way to chase me I’ve no need to be jealous. Especially when I can tell that she’s been putting them all in orbit. I know where I stand in your hierarchy. The fucking top. Seriously need to work on my wardrobe… Read more »
she initiated twice in three days before i left for the academy, an hour away from her place..
think about that – twice in three days. then nothing. in a prison type environment. don’t ever let that happen to you.Ā
how did i allow this to happen to me?
the very last thing she told me after we kissed was “text me”. i looked her in the eye, andĀ
said “no, ____. you text me.. you text me”
bad fucking move.
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sjfrellc
10 years ago
@Stained class
“she initiated twice in three days before i left for the academy, an hour away from her place..
think about that ā twice in three days. then nothing. in a prison type environment. donāt ever let that happen to you.
how did i allow this to happen to me?”
That certainly sounds pre-meditated on her part.
How did you let that happen to you?
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bnon
10 years ago
a) 30 now. I mostly want to fuck girls 20-25 years old. How do I play it? b) Say I’m 38 and at the peak. I’m not gonna be married and so the 38 year olds womens SMV isn’t really relevant to me at all then. In a way, reaching peak SMV, if you’re into girls who also have their peak, doesn’t really put you at an advantage (besides experience, of course)? c) Is there somewhere more info on gaming women 5-10 years younger than you? I like the mindset which must come with it, feels comfortable. d) People, please… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@Rugby – The most important thing an older guy can do to retrain himself and adopt the new mindset is to implement Game and Red Pill learnings when dealing with and observing women. Only experience has actually made me know how to play “text game”. Only experience has shown me that women want a fantasy. Fyi, amused mastery game is all about delivering the fantasy of an older guy to a young woman. Talk about being objectified, lol. If you have a hard time doing so with young, hot women do so with young fat and ugly ones. I have… Read more »
@Glenn “Yet my entire life had me repress these alpha ways of being ā talk about confusion.” Holy mother of ape land. Yeah no kidding thank you for that. Going out to a buddy’s bar who is super alpha a scoundrel in many ways but Alpha none the less. I woke up today to go to a conference on the effects of torture here in Miami and I feel a relief in being in a new changed environment. Self rejection was my version of what we call here the blue pill. Glenn for some reason I would find it funny… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
Re: MYD and his incessant babble. He nicely exemplifies the pseudo-intellectual pose of many self-anointed elites today, particularly on the left. The faux analytical pose, the assumed role as a seer and someone who we should be glad to hear from, and then of course this is with pathetically poor arguments and analysis. You see, that kind of superficiality gets rewarded in lots of settings, particularly when discussing social issues. I wonder, MYD, do you really get that when you speak here you make clear to all of us that you haven’t bothered to fully acquaint yourself with Rollo’s ideas?… Read more »
@ Atticus, “I slogged through your poorly constructed article linked above. Whatās your point? Rolloās āspuriousā graph describes when men peak. You seem to be analyzing marriage data. Two different things since the vast majority of men donāt have options and have been trained to marry around thirty.” This SMV graph does not describe anything, which is perhaps its source? Has any evidence base? But according to that fabricated chart men aged 30-50 should have mating options, right? You mean like where you (strategically) interpret that mating data and research are useless, while failing to account for the fact that… Read more »
@ Tom, “what Rollo is pointing out is that a manās SMV is contingent upon successfully navigating oneās career, accumulating assets and optimizing health. If a man maximizes his success in these areas, then his SMV may well peak in his later years.” Accumulating assets, education, financial support and go on currently no longer a necessity for western women to looking for older mates with resources. The old exchange concept assumes that men try to exchange their socioeconomic resources (such as education or income) against the physical beauty of women and viceversa in pre-industrialized societies. Nonetheless, clear empirical evidence for… Read more »
kfg
10 years ago
“And where all young hotties have gone?”
Not on OKCupid.
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Softek
10 years ago
@ Glenn Ha. I still have the condoms I bought a while back. One major fear I have to get over is that something is going to go wrong and the girl will end up pregnant. Even though I got cock blocked when I ALMOST fucked that girl when I was 24 last year, like I literally was just about to put the condom on — I don’t know if I could’ve gotten it on anyway because I started going soft as soon as I knew she was ready for it. It was a brutal winter and having SAD big… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@ Rugby – “Self rejection” – spot on. And I was a great arm wrestler when I lifted a lot when I was young but these days? See me in 6 months, as I’m off to the gym shortly with a renewed sense of purpose, but now? I’m not sure I’d be much of a contest. On this point, I’m finding that my old motivations no longer work for me and that it’s hard to get motivated cuz I’m so used to feeling like shit about myself. I’m working on “staying within myself” and do seem to be making progress.… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
rugby, shit man that Whiskey Lullaby video!!!! Another die-hard monogamist bites the dust. I almost think they deserve it for swallowing the kool aid. Military couples are world renowned for cheating. They just shouldn’t be taking state enforced monogamist vows (theocracy, essentially). When are we gonna wise up and admit the stuff just doesn’t work?
@ Rollo Tomassi, “1.)Youāll notice in Siirtyrionās article that no women expressed a āpreferenceā to marry a man younger than themselves in all his studies cited.” Read some online dating study, for example: – Okcupid data: distribution average for the subset of female population of 30 years old: Their desired male age is ranging from 23 to 33, approximately. – Christian Rudder, president of OkCupid, is the guy who digs up the numbers from the millions of people using his free dating site. In his book, āDataclysm,ā, data reveals the same results. Young women from 18-30 find guys of her… Read more »
bnon
10 years ago
I’m skeptical about the accuracy of Rollos SMV chart (mostly, I’m only skeptical about where the male peak should really be), but the is also no point in arguing against it in referencing the okCupid chart (as the poster above did, or the one in the link to the guy with the statistical arguments) Looking at the okCupid chart http://i.imgur.com/kZgzGJp.png we see the unevenness (for examples with the 43, 44, 45 year old males) and this just means that the sample was small. So small that the curve isn’t reasonably continuous. Bysides, the sample of okCupid is not one taken… Read more »
longgone
10 years ago
MYG, Dragonfly
Scrolling on by……
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
sirtyrion, interesting. The beta bucks providers who wifed up baby mamas in my suburbian ‘hood are all more than 5 years older to those women. A few are more than a decade older and one is 22 years older! softek, “That stuff kills it for me and I think the hard part about āstrange pussyā is that I donāt trust people, I donāt know if theyāre going to accuse me of taking advantage of them or if theyāre going to do something else to screw with me. I found out with those couple hookups that thatās a major hangup for… Read more »
Crossphased
10 years ago
I’ve been AFC for some time but since January have been reading all I can about game and the red pill, and it all makes sense. Applying it is another matter entirely. I have done what I found out was a typical dumb move in an LTR: being too overt in my efforts to change, which has created some non helpful arguments. Reading Rollo’s advice about never being overt has helped but I’m socially awkward enough that some concepts are hard to enact. Is it a healthy thing to lay out your expectations for your wife openly, when you are… Read more »
1.) First misinterpretation: “Woman’s age vs. the age of man who looks best to her.” None of these preferences are younger than the woman herself nor is there any deviation towards a man younger than herself until after age 38. In fact, a 47 y.o. woman’s preference is for a 38 y.o. man. Interesting that the older a woman is the more preference she applies to the male SMV peak age range, don’t you think? 2.) Again, preference doesn’t indicate behavior: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/womens-standards-crumble-easily-given-the-right-incentives/ 3.) You presume that what qualifies a man’s SMV remain static for women throughout every phase of their… Read more »
@Glenn April 26th, 2015 at 12:02 pm Excellent comments Glenn! “Focus your young life on yourself and training yourself to be selfish. Focus on improving your life ā skills, home, knowledge, physique, other talents/interests, bucks, career ā and keep women from distracting from that. It will pay off in spades. Go after easy to manage lower SMV women, plate them and only keep them around if it works for you during this phase. And realize that you are learning, that you canāt be expected to win at the game a lot because itās stacked against you at this phase. ”… Read more »
Tom
10 years ago
@sirtyrionlannister My social circle is mostly upper middle class so I’ve seen this dynamic play out often. A man toils away in his profession for the majority of his young life and finally achieves success in his early to middle thirties. Somehow he just “meets the right girl at work” as soon as his income crosses the $200,000 per annum mark. I’ll add that many of these high earning men had far less dating success early on in their careers. My point is that provider game is still efficacious, but the threshold for success has increased by an order of… Read more »
sjfrellc
10 years ago
@Crossphased April 26th, 2015 at 1:54 pm “Iāve been AFC for some time but since January have been reading all I can about game and the red pill, and it all makes sense. Applying it is another matter entirely.” “Is it a healthy thing to lay out your expectations for your wife openly, when you are still in the middle of trying to make yourself your point of origin? She has pressed to know what my expectations of her are, and I have told her on individual issues but not as an overall thing.” No it is not healthy at… Read more »
Joseph Coces
10 years ago
Nice post. But I do have one question. If men tend to become aware of the game that has been played on them by their late 30’s, then why the same men do not teach their male children about it?
@Joseph Coces One thing I’ve noticed about my farther is an intense fear of losing my mother. By that I mean he would do anything for her he would beat up his son to appease his mothers emotional needs he would cook he would clean he would remind me of how important women are an how men come second. He would breed into to me the very systems that spent huge amounts of time hurting and slowly killing me. He hated me because he felt a sense of anger for what I represented to him. He would bring up the… Read more »
Sun Wukong
10 years ago
Update on the round table stuff: I’ve got server (took longer to go active than expected) and domain set up, and I’m currently getting software configured on the server to my preferences. Don’t think I’ll be ready to roll today like I hoped, but by tomorrow evening should be good.
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Forge the Sky
10 years ago
@Sun Wukong
I’ve been mostly lurking the past week or two due to time constraints, but I’d love to be part of this whole thing if you’d have me.
Text is great for banging out ideas in detail, but ideas benefit from a wider bandwidth of expression from time to time.
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yanasaytya
10 years ago
This nonsense makes nothing but weak men. If you as a man needing an excuse its you failed at the only thing that matters or should matter as a man; your money and making more money. If you spent half the time making money as you do chasing pussy, you wouldn’t have a pussy problem. Blue pill nonsense starts with a woman is with you because of your success (money) however through your ignorance and stupidity you elevate or give her equal status. She was never your equal if she marries or is with you because if your success (money).… Read more »
Funny that the most memorable sex I ever had was when I was at my poorest. The most beautiful, most eager for sex women I ever banged would come over to my one room studio and want to bang when all I had was a beat up pickup truck a, 2 guitars and my amp.
Bus isn’t here so what the hell a good for life and growth
@Joseph Coces This is the one recent event an film that comes close to how the ten age beta me ever was with my dad. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EseJkKZXfyI
Don’t want it end this way but growing away from blue requires being out in the world away from him and my biological family.
Man the hell up. Just remember we all don’t come from the same details that allow us to cope in the same ways.
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Ronald
10 years ago
I’m new to the whole manosphere thing, though I’ve been into game and put for 10 years now, now 30 years of age. It’s strange reading so many people here having such “red pill” epiphanies. I’ve had more or less red pill beliefs since I was about 19 or so before I even discovered pua at 20. It just always seemed so obvious to me what women really were attracted by and the social conditioning we have been fed. You just have to witness the behaviours of women for it to be obvious.
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Ricardo
10 years ago
Hi Rollo!
I love your writing, and just bought your second book (hard copy).
That said, sometimes your phrases get somewhat long-winded and hard to follow, making it necessary to reread it several times; I believe this affects non native English speakers (like me) more deeply.
Maybe you could use something like hemingwayapp.com to increase readability. Please don’t take this the wrong way: I really love your writing, and just want to be able to adverb l absorb it fully! š
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Softek
10 years ago
@ Rollo “Funny that the most memorable sex I ever had was when I was at my poorest. The most beautiful, most eager for sex women I ever banged would come over to my one room studio and want to bang when all I had was a beat up pickup truck a, 2 guitars and my amp.” I keep that in mind all the time. I think there’s a misunderstanding that we have to become Superman, i.e. the “ideal man”, which you already pointed out as NOT being desirable in another post, as women don’t expect or even want to… Read more »
kfg
10 years ago
” . . .women indeed do āpreferā men with the physical appeal you suggest.”
Mad Yale Grad seems terrified of breaking out of his shell. Sounds like a natural with heavy, heavy, conditioning and a bad, bad, bad case of Madonna/whore.
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Crossphased
10 years ago
Thanks for the response sjfrellc. Negotiating desire is what I struggle with; it’s always been my default to talk about things with a woman if possible, so that’s the first bridge to burn. It’s tough though. On the one hand what I read sounds incredibly clear and logical, but game is far enough removed from my current habit that some days it seems out of reach. In order to understand how to get my frame right, should I start by going back to the mindset I had 8 years ago before I got married, and had plans as to what… Read more »
Jean
10 years ago
Hey Rollo,
Quick question about “the pheromonal beta” from your first book.
You say that a man who ejaculates often doesn’t have the same “chemical odor” than an alpha who actually gets laid. However, oxytocin is released after an orgasm, whether the man has reached this orgasm by masturbating or by having sex. So an alpha man would be one who does not have any frequent sexual release. But wouldn’t that make him a beta?
@Jean
Good question
I think all men after ejaculation become part beta for a slight moment until your restores recoupe a new load ready to fire.
Here is a link to check out hope you get the sensei to answer directly http://www.amepc.org/tau/article/view/1674/2431
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sjfrellc
10 years ago
Crossphased, It is somewhat of an axiom on Rollo’s blog that you can’t get a prescription for your exact circumstances. Burning bridges is a dangerous proposition in marriage. The stakes are high and the wife holds all the cards. Once you committed to her you gave up your wild card. The best circumstance in marriage is not to have given up frame going into marriage. It is tough to re-establish frame. If you try to do it too quickly now you will engender feelings in your spouse that you are just gaming and are faking it. Resentment from the spouse… Read more »
My ex turned on me when I was 24-ish @ the same time I earned my way into a tier one slot. Now I understand why. I hit my professional/ physical (in certain wags) peak and she was turning on heat to humble me. Her actions make sense in that low animal cunning sort of way that women operate on. Hat tip to Rollo Banging younger chicks; really I think it’s based on lifestyle and fitness. Reasonably fit, youngish type lifestyle, still pull in the been there done that cred. Seems easier to bed chicks 20 years younger then me… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad: “Military couples are world renowned for cheating. They just shouldnāt be taking state enforced monogamist vows (theocracy, essentially). When are we gonna wise up and admit the stuff just doesnāt work?
Donāt hate the player, hate the game.”
I’ve been suspecting it for a while, but now I’m convinced. You’re PJ.
And a piece of shit.
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Bromeo
10 years ago
@Rollo I agree with that you’re saying about the SMV of males at 35-38 but the only issue here is I don’t think the majority of men will ever realize it to the fullest in terms of maximizing status, affluence, achievements, and getting ripped in the gym. This will leave a big pool of males dead in the water at what should have been their peak. Even if the peak is reached and the male is well established well beyond his peers in that age range he will be looking at securing women in the 27-30 age range which are… Read more »
Fred Flange, a/k/a Capt. Oblivious
10 years ago
@sjfrelic and @crossphased:
A better more red pill version of Athol Kay’s approach is his first book, the MMSL Primer 2011. That one still has red pill gold in it. The new one s trying to be “purple pill” so as not to offend, so its advice is watered down.
That MMSL 2011 book, plus the Glover NMMNG book and this place, will get all of this into focus. (Along with a bit of CH game advice, he’s still good for that, though I duck out of there when the Galt’s Gulch groupies show up).
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“Do you feel like the right is harder to stay in with todayās climate of open hypergamy?”
Open hypergamy should be met with open polygyny. Women are getting their polyandrous, hypergamous needs met through serial monogamy so there’s no reason we men can’t get our polygynous needs met too.
When a young man falls in love he gets oneitis. Oneitis impells him to broach a monagamous contract, whether it be a literal state enforced marriage license or just an “understanding” with his girlfriend that they are “exclusive”.
This needs to go. Like, yesterday.
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Glenn
10 years ago
@Softek – Sorry for the curtness/brevity of my reply. You response made me wonder how you deal with the anxiety? While longer term, taking benzos is addictive, the kind of thing you describe seems like a bit of a panic attack. If you have coverage, with your history, getting a script for zanax or klonopin should be easy. Pop one before you meet a woman and see. Again, do not become dependent on them but for me, the first time I took one after my CPTSD went off the rails it was immediate relief. I actually had to stop because… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@SFCTon – Spot on. When my tech sales career was really taking off, that’s when my ex belittled me most for being a “salesman”, she literally laughed at me in the car one day about it on a long drive. I actually kind of went off on her because I was stunned. She was a stay at home wife, our daughter was in the back seat of the car I paid for. We were coming home from a fun weekend away and my career was taking off – and this is the time she decides to belittle me for what… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@Siffrellc – Holyt shit, Jack Donovan is amazing. I took your reco and am working my way through The Way of Men Slowly – damn, do I need a tighter “gang” of men. I do have a circle of male friends but we all live and work in different places now so it’s not as much of a day to day thing.
More to come on this count for sure. But the four values you mention, yup, so spot on. Anyone here who hasn’t read Jack Donovan should get the book today. It’s nothing short of revelatory.
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Soon to be father and married against my will
10 years ago
I feel like this post was written partly for me. I’m soon 30 and accidentally knocked up my girlfriend. I’ve been looking to leave for years but practical matters has made it difficult. I have “broken up” when we’ve had fights, but it’s difficult to maintain resolve for the time needed when there is a shortage of homes available for rent and you have to live under the same roof for several months. Add to this the incentive to “become a better girlfriend” and please her man that the soon-to-be-left girl feels and it becomes even harder not to reconcile.… Read more »
Thelien
10 years ago
Thanks for the article Rollo! That was the common way for aristocrats in the past, as described in classic literature: to focus on his career and sleep around until his 30s, then wed a young girl from a suitable family. In modern Russia, girls marry early (a quote from a women’s forum: “Our city is a regional capital, and here too, if you’re 20 and not in a serious relationship with the aim of marriage, you’re frowned upon as the ultimate loser”), but so do men. There’s high competition for never-married guys (divorced men are considered trouble – they’re probably… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Yanasaytya’s rant about money and Rollo’s experience of the best sex with the most beautiful woman when he was at his poorest and this quote, “So itās not that the expectation should be one of 23 year old women wanting to get after it with 38 year old men (though this is exactly the scenario in Jenny Bahnās story), but rather that 38 year old men increase exponentially in value to 30 year old women at a time when what he possess is what she needs the most.” Money doesn’t do a man much good with women unless he’s famous… Read more »
Money can be “attractive” to a woman, but rarely is it “arousing” to a woman.
It’s definitely part of the status and provisioning part of the Hypergamy equation, but if a good prostitute can fake sexual interest for a fee, think about what an LTR woman’s provisioning necessity can motivate her to.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“I didnāt want her to become pregnant ”
Yes you did. That’s why you didn’t wear a condom.
Sorry dude but its hard to feel sorry for you when you had a choice.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“Money can be āattractiveā to a woman, but rarely is it āarousingā to a woman. Itās definitely part of the status and provisioning part of the Hypergamy equation, but if a good prostitute can fake sexual interest for a fee, think about what an LTR womanās provisioning necessity can motivate her to.” Rollo you can’t be serious. How many well-earning men are divorced each year? Do you think the beta providers who wifed up baby mamas are getting the same quality and quantity of sex that the listless baby daddy losers got (and in some cases are still getting) from… Read more »
Soon to be married, “Iām so sad and angry that she got me in this textbook trap.” She didn’t “get you into” anything. YOU didn’t wrap it up! ” Now I feel like whichever way I chose Iām damned. If I break up I will regain my freedom and finally be able to live life as red pill single man. If I do that however, I will forever feel like I let my child down. If I donāt leave her, I will whither away unhappy in a lifelong relationship with a woman I donāt love and wonder what could have… Read more »
Tom
10 years ago
@Mad Yale Grad
Divorce rates for the upper middle class are lower. Typically 25 percent versus the average 50 percent. That doesn’t mean the marriages are happy or sex is abundant. Then again, marriage is more about raising the next generation than wild, passionate romps in the sack.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“So, given that you arenāt giving head or taking it up the ass” Heterosexual men generally don’t take it up the ass but they are engaging in cunning linguistics frequently. And they are increasingly putting it up the ass of women. While certain strains of HPV show no symptoms, they can still result in infertility. As foolish as I think it is, most men still want to have kids some day. Its important to know your partners history as well as her previous partners’ histories. This is why open polyamory is healthier than serial monogamy. An open circle who all… Read more »
Tom
10 years ago
@Mad Yale Grad
Money is part of the package. Read the laundry list of what American women want and money places prominently on the list. Along with the correct height, swagger and appearance, she will need well calibrated social skills and status.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Tom, “Money is part of the package. Read the laundry list of what American women want and money places prominently on the list. ” – They want that in a husband/provider, obviously. Not necessarily in a lover/baby daddy. Rollo, “I realize that Iām heading into dangerous territory with this, but I maintain that looks are an integral part of attraction ā sorry, thatās a fact of life” – Agree. I disagree that game is just as necessary as looks to pull women. The best looking men I know never need to approach women, women approach them. I’m not talking IOI’s… Read more »
And what percentage of men do you suppose qualify as “the best looking men” you know?
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Shiva H. P.
10 years ago
@Soon to be father and married against my will “I know what I have to to, but itās going to be incredibly painful and Iām afraid that I will not be strong enough to do it. Would really appreciate some counsel and/or support in this matter.” Do not marry , wait till either baby is born or do a biopsy of fetus and “Insist on a DNA test”. You will be surprised in how many accidental pregnancies, the supposed father is not the actual biological father. You are 30 and assuming your gf would be around same age. It is… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@Soon – First, don’t listen to a fucking thing that jackwad, MadYaleShitforBrains has to say. Okay, with that settled, here are my two cents. 1. Does your family know that she entrapped you? You should make this clear to everyone in your social circle. And make sure they know she did this after you began preparing to leave for that new job (she could sense it I’m sure). But be prepared for some who will not give a shit and want you to “do the right thing”. That’s good in a way as you can excise those folks from any… Read more »
Glenn
10 years ago
@MYD – Okay, factor in some of the oral cancer cases and you till have a better chance of dying in car wreck or in your swimming pool
You again nicely demonstrate a “distinction without a difference”. You completely misrepresent the risk of HPV – you stupid cunt. Will you just shut the fuck up already? You have nothing to offer worth reading here, nothing.
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Chump No More
10 years ago
@Soon to be father and married against my will @Shiva H. P. gives very sage advise, but I would take it a step further. This child is coming into the world against your will, so let’s look at this from a societal and financial perspective. First, I know this will come out as harsh, but let’s get this “do the right thing” crap out of the way. Whatever ‘obligations’ you feel have been programmed into you by a old-school value system that no longer applies and has been twisted by the feminine imperative to bend your will to a woman’s… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“In Mid-Life Crisis I offered that this contrived ācrisisā really isnāt rooted in a manās yearning for his younger days, but rather his coming to the realization that his SMV and peak potential put him into a state of awareness that he could actualize things he previously thought werenāt possible for him. For many men this is the first time in their lives that they really have the introspection to understand the harsh Red Pill truth.” This is why men should put off long term pair bonding until at least mid-30s and only then it should be a polyamorous LTR… Read more »
Softek
10 years ago
@ Glenn No worries. I need to be more assertive with my psychiatrist. I told him I wanted a prescription for Xanax, as I’ve taken it before and it helped a lot, and made it clear I only intend to use it as needed. He just nodded. I’ve brought it up several times but he hasn’t written me a prescription for it and I’m going to have to push him directly into asking if I can have a prescription for it, because what I’m getting is he’s against it, and doesn’t want me abusing them, and he doesn’t want to… Read more »
Sun Wukong
10 years ago
@Soon I have a very close friend that was in exactly your situation 7 years ago. I told him to ignore everybody and get clear of the bitch before she got her hooks in him. He gave in to his conservative family and married the bitch. They eventually realized I was right; she makes every family gathering miserable with her psychosis, but now he’s stuck with her due to his significant increase in pay during that time. She would rape him in court, plus he was stupid enough to knocked her up again. He’s fucking miserable, and his only escapes… Read more »
DO NOT MARRY HER! Are you sensing a trend in the advice?
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Bluepillprofessor
10 years ago
>What maintains the essential fabric of a good family?
Sex God Method
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The Burninator
10 years ago
@sirtyrionlannister Now, letās focus on the female okcpid graphic for female preferences, and tell me, what s the preferred male age for the most desirable women? Oh surprise, it turns out that for the most desirable men according to your SMV chart (ie 38 years old = SMV of 10) are preferred for women aged 39-41. And where all young hotties have gone? That’s your evidence, OKCupid? Seriously? I think Rollo is in error, but only because he pegs the age too early. Mid to late 30’s I had nowhere near the attention that I have now in my mid… Read more »
Burninator, bear in mind that even women as old as 47 (per the OKCupid chart) still think a 38 y.o. guy “looks” best to them.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Shiva, “It is not easy to right away get pregnant for a 30 yr old gal.” SMH. Are you a virgin or inexperienced by any chance? Married Against Will, Take Chump No More’s advice and get a DNA test. Tell your “girlfriend” that if the baby is yours you will take responsibility and co-parent with her but do not sign a theocratic state enforced monagamist contract. Live separately from her. Explain to your family that you don’t want to end up just another divorce statistic which is the only outcome for couples who marry under these circumstances, and that you… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Joseph Coces April 26th, 2015 at 3:11 pm Nice post. But I do have one question. If men tend to become aware of the game that has been played on them by their late 30ās, then why the same men do not teach their male children about it? ________________________________________ I don’t think most men actually do become aware of any game played on them Joseph. At most some might feel something needling away at their subconscious but its very vague and ephemeral. Let’s not forget that there are some very happily married men out here. They manage to be wealthy,… Read more »
longgone
10 years ago
MYG, you still here? STFU
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Rollo, what do you think about Tariq Nasheed’s take on this realization of SMV here. He says the 7 Year Itch is a fem-centric phenomena made universal. He says men get the itch around the 3 year mark. The reasons are that its not until 7 years into a marriage that a couple becomes firmly established. Usually by that point they’ve achieved some economic success, bought a home, had at least one kid but often two, and the woman finally feels secure in the arrangement, that she’s accomplished all she sat out to do as a wife and mother. She’s… Read more »
“Thereās a very interesting social convention that accompanies this phase for the married woman, there was even an old movie dedicated to it, itās called The 7 Year Itch. It was a cute movie, but it was based on a very real psychological phenomenon. The cutesy social convention revolves around menās developing a wandering eye for strange vagina after mysteriously being married for 7 (a magic number) years. The reality is that most marriages tend to dissolve at two stage, after the 7 year mark and then again at the 20 year mark.” OK but Tariq says 7 year itch… Read more »
Sun Wukong
10 years ago
@Lead
You’re a fucking idiot. You’ve shown an inability to read, learn, and comprehend for over a week now. For a guy that lists his academic background as part of his handle, you blatantly display a kind of blithe ignorance and stupidity I’ve rarely seen in my lifetime. You have nothing productive to contribute, just gratuitous walls of idiocy vomited forth from your fingers with all the grace of a drunk sorority girl over a toilet.
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sjfrellc
10 years ago
I would have to apologize to Soon to be a father for not offering advice. I’m simply not qualified. I only know how to pick my own good parents, a good wife I’m still married to, good Childeren, a good social group, good exclusive guy friends to hang out with. I just don’t know what I would recommend or personally do if I was trapped in that situation. I got nothing.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
“I would have to apologize to Soon to be a father for not offering advice. Iām simply not qualified. I only know how to pick my own good parents, a good wife Iām still married to, good Childeren, a good social group, good exclusive guy friends to hang out with. I just donāt know what I would recommend or personally do if I was trapped in that situation. I got nothing.” At least you can admit that. Props to honesty. Soon To Be Father, I’m not a romantic traditionalist or idealistic monogamist so imma keep it 100 with ya, son;… Read more »
@Glenn What I learned today What I learned today 1. Denial ā Still Plugged -In: āThese game guys are a bunch of clowns, thereās no way this works on women. Women arenāt stupid. What a bunch of misogynists.ā 2. Anger ā Post-Red Pill: āThis is ridiculous! Why should I have to jump through all these hoops for women? I just want to be myself. Why couldnāt I have been a Natural AlphaĀ®? I blame my parents/siblings/teachers/God/liberals/feminists/media/society, maybe George Sodini, Andres Breivik, James Holmes wasnāt so crazy after all.ā 3. Bargaining ā Unplugged: āWell maybe it does have some good pointsā¦but,… Read more »
sjfrellc
10 years ago
“At least you can admit that. Props to honesty.”
You really are dense. If you were a woman (and I’m not certain you aren’t) I would say I just gamed you.
Should realize my comment was an insincere attempt at apologizing for my laziness (I had a busy day). And I’m just spitting contrived game. Following the first two sentences I’m simply DHVing. You know little about what red pill awareness is and have little understanding of game implementation of red pill principles.
@Rollo … great post, as always. Would love to hear your thoughts on Men in their 50’s that have been thrown on the recycle heap … especially since some of us (let’s say 45 to 55) have a few years left in the tank. What does the SMV say about us – obviously we are not at our peak, but we can regain our bodies, lean on our experience, and we still have a furtile mind for new ideas.
Rollo, you have the patience of a frickin’ saint. “Thanks Rugby. Iāve read all the link Rollo told me to and some more. I donāt see the red pill helping much once a man falls in love. When that happens all bets are off. They lose their minds. Betas might pull off alpha posturing in the dating scene but once they go crazy for a girl its game over. Once real alphas go crazy for a girl its also game over. Love is the most powerful emotion in the world. Unless we can prevent that, there is no red pill.”… Read more »
The Burninator
10 years ago
@Rollo Burninator, bear in mind that even women as old as 47 (per the OKCupid chart) still think a 38 y.o. guy ālooksā best to them. We’re talking here about normal men though, not men who make great strides in appearance and confidence. While I’m not the last sandwich in hungry town I can tell you for a fact that if you keep in shape and are on top of your own life you will out pull even high value late 30 something guys. There’s something in the water now (or whatever) driving Millenial chicks to older men. Likely their… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Seraph, “I think the point is that being truly Red Pill means you are aware of the realistic limitations of āLoveā in the face of Hypergamy. Being in love Blue style and Red style are two different things, with two very different mindsets. In fact, I would guess that by definition, a man who āloses his mindā over a woman has slipped out of the Red Pill mindset. Now, is it an immensely HARD thing to do remaining Red Pill in the face of a pretty face, awesome body, frequent sex, strong emotions and our Blue Pill conditioning? Absolutely. That… Read more »
longgone
10 years ago
Rollo, I wish you’d make an exception and ban the attention-whore MYG…..please.
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Crossphased
10 years ago
Oddly enough your comment helps me sjfrellc. In sure there are many ways to demonstrate higher value but it helps to see an example that way. And it sounded so humble…
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
sjfrellc, “And Iām just spitting contrived game. Following the first two sentences Iām simply DHVing.”
– Let me see if I got this straight. You’re “spitting game” and “displaying higher value” to some anonymous DUDE on the internetz?!?!?!
Is that what monogamy reduced you to?
“You know little about what red pill awareness is and have little understanding of game implementation of red pill principles.”
“So then like me, you are also openly anti-marriage?” Dead set against it? No. But if I was a young, single man in today’s climate I would hope I was well acquainted with Red Pill, and in so being, would be VERY wary of entering into matrimony. Being Red Pill aware, though, if one were to consider marriage, you would be much better prepared for it. That’s the point. I think the biggest impediment to a happy marriage in today’s world is NOT the limitations of Red Pill thought, but the manner in which society/the FI would attempt to constrain… Read more »
sjfrellc
10 years ago
Crossphased “Oddly enough your comment helps me sjfrellc. In sure there are many ways to demonstrate higher value but it helps to see an example that way. And it sounded so humbleā¦” Your last sentence. And it sounded so humble.. That’s game. If I was talking to a woman and she thought it sounded that way, it accomplished it’s goal. “Let me see if I got this straight. Youāre āspitting gameā and ādisplaying higher valueā to some anonymous DUDE on the internetz?!?!?!” That is entirely correct. And by your punctuation, it is evident that you failed my shit test. If… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
” And by your punctuation” SRSLY? “But if I was a young, single man in todayās climate I would hope I was well acquainted with Red Pill, and in so being, would be VERY wary of entering into matrimony. Being Red Pill aware, though, if one were to consider marriage, you would be much better prepared for it. Thatās the point. I think the biggest impediment to a happy marriage in todayās world is NOT the limitations of Red Pill thought, but the manner in which society/the FI would attempt to constrain your agency in implementing it in your life.”… Read more »
Seraph
10 years ago
“Iām not sold on this idea of āmarried gameā Understandable. “So a man reckons heās at his peak SMV mid to late 30s, how does that help him if heās in a monogamous marriage?” Well, his downward slide is much more gradual than than of his wife, for one. If he understands his SMV can and will stay above his wife (assuming he does not let himself go) he is already ahead of the average guy. If he understands even the basic Game principles, he is at least two steps ahead. Let’s keep in mind that 10 years ago, there… Read more »
TuffLuv
10 years ago
If I could go back 3 years into my nuked marriage and change my game it would have been..
What I did: retreat from the madness.. work, eat, drink, fuck, ignore.
What I would do: RECOGNIZE the problem. Work, play, disregard, abandon concern and let her walk if she wants, not fuck, be aloof and absent from the home, appear happy.
-> watch her beg for my attention.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Seraph, too much work for too little return. Let’s face it, there is no such thing as “married game”. Once you sign a state enforced monogamous contract, its GAME OVER (no matter how you spin it).
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sjfrellc
10 years ago
Mad Yale Grad April 28th, 2015 at 1:16 pm What is your demographic? Let me guess, you are 27, single and not getting laid. You obviously are douche talking about baby mamma’s and your friends getting laid by them.(WTF is that?) My wife is attractive. I would rather be with her rather than any woman I have ever met. So what is my problem? I got married in 1990. I have no desire to hook up with the fat single mom’s that your friends are (who you are jealous of because they are getting laid and you are not). Never… Read more »
Seraph
10 years ago
“Seraph, too much work for too little return. Letās face it, there is no such thing as āmarried gameā. Once you sign a state enforced monogamous contract, its GAME OVER (no matter how you spin it).”
Annnnddd, I am left wondering how much you read, and what you actually absorbed of what I wrote.
Well, you have apparently convinced yourself quite vigorously to the point of blocking out anything that might intrude, and that’s what’s most important.
@Seraph Thank you āIām not sold on this idea of āmarried gameā Understandable. āSo a man reckons heās at his peak SMV mid to late 30s, how does that help him if heās in a monogamous marriage?ā Well, his downward slide is much more gradual than than of his wife, for one. If he understands his SMV can and will stay above his wife (assuming he does not let himself go) he is already ahead of the average guy. If he understands even the basic Game principles, he is at least two steps ahead. Letās keep in mind that 10… Read more »
I think you would have a better chance of arguing with someone’s voice mail message.
He’s got his mantra, and he intends to repeat it to himself. It must be soothing.
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Mad Yale Grad
10 years ago
Rollo, just read it. It confirms to me that monogamy is a myth. Helen bought into it and therefore told Noheroes from the SoSuave forum that she “couldn’t see him anymore”.
Everything you write here points to this fact yet you still seem to favor monogamy. why?
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Anon
10 years ago
Ban this Yale faggot.
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Pyar Aly
10 years ago
Matchmaker and Huffpost writer confirms the SMV graph:
[…] marriageable men will decrease . Women do not marry men of of perceived ‘lower status’. Rollo Tomassi talks about SMVĀ in relation to men and women; how men peak much later. If women are waiting until their 30’s […]
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St
10 years ago
SMV is such a fascinating concept. This may be politically incorrect, but I do believe there is a way to represent this in an actual financial conception since the term is actually Sexual Market Value. Here is an attempt. One can look to the global price paid for professional sex annually. It is currently at $250 per hour on average, and it has actually fallen over the last ten years from $350 per hour – likely due to the internet. The averages are also higher at a younger age – $450 per hour at 25. It is lower at older… Read more »
Thanks Rugby. I’ve read all the link Rollo told me to and some more. I don’t see the red pill helping much once a man falls in love. When that happens all bets are off. They lose their minds. Betas might pull off alpha posturing in the dating scene but once they go crazy for a girl its game over. Once real alphas go crazy for a girl its also game over. Love is the most powerful emotion in the world. Unless we can prevent that, there is no red pill.
@Mad Yale Grad
Ok here’s what I got
Just came back from a Allison kruss lead belly concert with her brother. Robert plant was their will some other folks. Here’s a song that comes really close to what may answhere your question https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IZbN_nmxAGk
Right. And until we can keep shit from falling down there is no theory of gravity.
@rugby I think the guys on the right of the bell curve – the guys with options, who can get women fairly easily – they have women flake on them, but they can replace the woman. The average guy has to work a lot more to replace the woman. Just the same as economics, a rich guy can ride out a job loss where the average guy might lose his house. Guys with options have more rolls of the dice. I’m fine with Game, I just don’t think it will scale. What is the average guy going to do to… Read more »
@Striver Thanks for allowing me to learn from that. My uncle in Utah is Mormon and I love him very much every time I saw him growing up he was having a divorce and losing something financial he didn’t an won’t care about money as much as his daughters who almost get taken away everyone his having a divorce. This was his third and I sat next to him one day after killing a timber raddlesnack and he looked at me in ah. I asked him why because I didn’t want to kill it. He told me it was because… Read more »
“As womenās SMV peak potential is primarily based on her looks and sexual availability”
“Hot women are awesome. Unavailable, frigid or otherwise unfeminine women who are hot are frustrating.
Would you buy a Lamborghini if it had a 2-stroke lawnmower engine in it?ā
The Dragon Lady says otherwise;
http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2015/02/16/single-women-men-secretly-wish-it-was-harder-to-get-in-your-pants/
A few of the beta providers I know are high SMV in their local sexual markets with options to date younger, child free women but they fell in love with baby mamas. Can you explain that? Is ātrue loveā really a thing?ā Y’know, we can’t judge anything from outliers, but one of the greatest betas in history has to be Mike Mussina. Dude was a Stanford grad (economics) in under four years. An All-Star pitcher whose career might just be enough to make the Hall of Fame. He grew up an all-sport athlete (baseball, yeah, but football too) in PA.… Read more »
Oldest plate I was spinning (41) keeps hounding me for time and sex lately despite my basically ignoring her. The more I say that I’m busy, the more protesting and offers I get from her. She tries to make me jealous telling me about other dudes she’s dating; if you’re dating all these dudes but going out of your way to chase me I’ve no need to be jealous. Especially when I can tell that she’s been putting them all in orbit. I know where I stand in your hierarchy. The fucking top. Seriously need to work on my wardrobe… Read more »
@Sun wukong
Fashion and fitness whatever you I’ve been learning to be the best in my demographic.
Treat yourself well
@Rollo, peep this:
https://epsilongardener.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/people-doing-statistics-badly-1/
22 days since the last time ex and i spoke.
she initiated twice in three days before i left for the academy, an hour away from her place..
think about that – twice in three days. then nothing. in a prison type environment. don’t ever let that happen to you.Ā
how did i allow this to happen to me?
the very last thing she told me after we kissed was “text me”. i looked her in the eye, andĀ
said “no, ____. you text me.. you text me”
bad fucking move.
@Stained class
“she initiated twice in three days before i left for the academy, an hour away from her place..
think about that ā twice in three days. then nothing. in a prison type environment. donāt ever let that happen to you.
how did i allow this to happen to me?”
That certainly sounds pre-meditated on her part.
How did you let that happen to you?
a) 30 now. I mostly want to fuck girls 20-25 years old. How do I play it? b) Say I’m 38 and at the peak. I’m not gonna be married and so the 38 year olds womens SMV isn’t really relevant to me at all then. In a way, reaching peak SMV, if you’re into girls who also have their peak, doesn’t really put you at an advantage (besides experience, of course)? c) Is there somewhere more info on gaming women 5-10 years younger than you? I like the mindset which must come with it, feels comfortable. d) People, please… Read more »
@Rugby – The most important thing an older guy can do to retrain himself and adopt the new mindset is to implement Game and Red Pill learnings when dealing with and observing women. Only experience has actually made me know how to play “text game”. Only experience has shown me that women want a fantasy. Fyi, amused mastery game is all about delivering the fantasy of an older guy to a young woman. Talk about being objectified, lol. If you have a hard time doing so with young, hot women do so with young fat and ugly ones. I have… Read more »
@Glenn “Yet my entire life had me repress these alpha ways of being ā talk about confusion.” Holy mother of ape land. Yeah no kidding thank you for that. Going out to a buddy’s bar who is super alpha a scoundrel in many ways but Alpha none the less. I woke up today to go to a conference on the effects of torture here in Miami and I feel a relief in being in a new changed environment. Self rejection was my version of what we call here the blue pill. Glenn for some reason I would find it funny… Read more »
Re: MYD and his incessant babble. He nicely exemplifies the pseudo-intellectual pose of many self-anointed elites today, particularly on the left. The faux analytical pose, the assumed role as a seer and someone who we should be glad to hear from, and then of course this is with pathetically poor arguments and analysis. You see, that kind of superficiality gets rewarded in lots of settings, particularly when discussing social issues. I wonder, MYD, do you really get that when you speak here you make clear to all of us that you haven’t bothered to fully acquaint yourself with Rollo’s ideas?… Read more »
@ Atticus, “I slogged through your poorly constructed article linked above. Whatās your point? Rolloās āspuriousā graph describes when men peak. You seem to be analyzing marriage data. Two different things since the vast majority of men donāt have options and have been trained to marry around thirty.” This SMV graph does not describe anything, which is perhaps its source? Has any evidence base? But according to that fabricated chart men aged 30-50 should have mating options, right? You mean like where you (strategically) interpret that mating data and research are useless, while failing to account for the fact that… Read more »
@ Tom, “what Rollo is pointing out is that a manās SMV is contingent upon successfully navigating oneās career, accumulating assets and optimizing health. If a man maximizes his success in these areas, then his SMV may well peak in his later years.” Accumulating assets, education, financial support and go on currently no longer a necessity for western women to looking for older mates with resources. The old exchange concept assumes that men try to exchange their socioeconomic resources (such as education or income) against the physical beauty of women and viceversa in pre-industrialized societies. Nonetheless, clear empirical evidence for… Read more »
“And where all young hotties have gone?”
Not on OKCupid.
@ Glenn Ha. I still have the condoms I bought a while back. One major fear I have to get over is that something is going to go wrong and the girl will end up pregnant. Even though I got cock blocked when I ALMOST fucked that girl when I was 24 last year, like I literally was just about to put the condom on — I don’t know if I could’ve gotten it on anyway because I started going soft as soon as I knew she was ready for it. It was a brutal winter and having SAD big… Read more »
@ Rugby – “Self rejection” – spot on. And I was a great arm wrestler when I lifted a lot when I was young but these days? See me in 6 months, as I’m off to the gym shortly with a renewed sense of purpose, but now? I’m not sure I’d be much of a contest. On this point, I’m finding that my old motivations no longer work for me and that it’s hard to get motivated cuz I’m so used to feeling like shit about myself. I’m working on “staying within myself” and do seem to be making progress.… Read more »
rugby, shit man that Whiskey Lullaby video!!!! Another die-hard monogamist bites the dust. I almost think they deserve it for swallowing the kool aid. Military couples are world renowned for cheating. They just shouldn’t be taking state enforced monogamist vows (theocracy, essentially). When are we gonna wise up and admit the stuff just doesn’t work?
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
@ Rollo Tomassi, “1.)Youāll notice in Siirtyrionās article that no women expressed a āpreferenceā to marry a man younger than themselves in all his studies cited.” Read some online dating study, for example: – Okcupid data: distribution average for the subset of female population of 30 years old: Their desired male age is ranging from 23 to 33, approximately. – Christian Rudder, president of OkCupid, is the guy who digs up the numbers from the millions of people using his free dating site. In his book, āDataclysm,ā, data reveals the same results. Young women from 18-30 find guys of her… Read more »
I’m skeptical about the accuracy of Rollos SMV chart (mostly, I’m only skeptical about where the male peak should really be), but the is also no point in arguing against it in referencing the okCupid chart (as the poster above did, or the one in the link to the guy with the statistical arguments) Looking at the okCupid chart http://i.imgur.com/kZgzGJp.png we see the unevenness (for examples with the 43, 44, 45 year old males) and this just means that the sample was small. So small that the curve isn’t reasonably continuous. Bysides, the sample of okCupid is not one taken… Read more »
MYG, Dragonfly
Scrolling on by……
sirtyrion, interesting. The beta bucks providers who wifed up baby mamas in my suburbian ‘hood are all more than 5 years older to those women. A few are more than a decade older and one is 22 years older! softek, “That stuff kills it for me and I think the hard part about āstrange pussyā is that I donāt trust people, I donāt know if theyāre going to accuse me of taking advantage of them or if theyāre going to do something else to screw with me. I found out with those couple hookups that thatās a major hangup for… Read more »
I’ve been AFC for some time but since January have been reading all I can about game and the red pill, and it all makes sense. Applying it is another matter entirely. I have done what I found out was a typical dumb move in an LTR: being too overt in my efforts to change, which has created some non helpful arguments. Reading Rollo’s advice about never being overt has helped but I’m socially awkward enough that some concepts are hard to enact. Is it a healthy thing to lay out your expectations for your wife openly, when you are… Read more »
1.) First misinterpretation: “Woman’s age vs. the age of man who looks best to her.” None of these preferences are younger than the woman herself nor is there any deviation towards a man younger than herself until after age 38. In fact, a 47 y.o. woman’s preference is for a 38 y.o. man. Interesting that the older a woman is the more preference she applies to the male SMV peak age range, don’t you think? 2.) Again, preference doesn’t indicate behavior: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/womens-standards-crumble-easily-given-the-right-incentives/ 3.) You presume that what qualifies a man’s SMV remain static for women throughout every phase of their… Read more »
And for what it’s worth Adi Ezra disagrees with you:
http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/2015/03/11/sorry-all-you-men-out-there-bar-refaeli-is-engaged-at-last/
@Glenn April 26th, 2015 at 12:02 pm Excellent comments Glenn! “Focus your young life on yourself and training yourself to be selfish. Focus on improving your life ā skills, home, knowledge, physique, other talents/interests, bucks, career ā and keep women from distracting from that. It will pay off in spades. Go after easy to manage lower SMV women, plate them and only keep them around if it works for you during this phase. And realize that you are learning, that you canāt be expected to win at the game a lot because itās stacked against you at this phase. ”… Read more »
@sirtyrionlannister My social circle is mostly upper middle class so I’ve seen this dynamic play out often. A man toils away in his profession for the majority of his young life and finally achieves success in his early to middle thirties. Somehow he just “meets the right girl at work” as soon as his income crosses the $200,000 per annum mark. I’ll add that many of these high earning men had far less dating success early on in their careers. My point is that provider game is still efficacious, but the threshold for success has increased by an order of… Read more »
@Crossphased April 26th, 2015 at 1:54 pm “Iāve been AFC for some time but since January have been reading all I can about game and the red pill, and it all makes sense. Applying it is another matter entirely.” “Is it a healthy thing to lay out your expectations for your wife openly, when you are still in the middle of trying to make yourself your point of origin? She has pressed to know what my expectations of her are, and I have told her on individual issues but not as an overall thing.” No it is not healthy at… Read more »
Nice post. But I do have one question. If men tend to become aware of the game that has been played on them by their late 30’s, then why the same men do not teach their male children about it?
@Joseph Coces One thing I’ve noticed about my farther is an intense fear of losing my mother. By that I mean he would do anything for her he would beat up his son to appease his mothers emotional needs he would cook he would clean he would remind me of how important women are an how men come second. He would breed into to me the very systems that spent huge amounts of time hurting and slowly killing me. He hated me because he felt a sense of anger for what I represented to him. He would bring up the… Read more »
Update on the round table stuff: I’ve got server (took longer to go active than expected) and domain set up, and I’m currently getting software configured on the server to my preferences. Don’t think I’ll be ready to roll today like I hoped, but by tomorrow evening should be good.
@Sun Wukong
I’ve been mostly lurking the past week or two due to time constraints, but I’d love to be part of this whole thing if you’d have me.
Text is great for banging out ideas in detail, but ideas benefit from a wider bandwidth of expression from time to time.
This nonsense makes nothing but weak men. If you as a man needing an excuse its you failed at the only thing that matters or should matter as a man; your money and making more money. If you spent half the time making money as you do chasing pussy, you wouldn’t have a pussy problem. Blue pill nonsense starts with a woman is with you because of your success (money) however through your ignorance and stupidity you elevate or give her equal status. She was never your equal if she marries or is with you because if your success (money).… Read more »
Funny that the most memorable sex I ever had was when I was at my poorest. The most beautiful, most eager for sex women I ever banged would come over to my one room studio and want to bang when all I had was a beat up pickup truck a, 2 guitars and my amp.
@yanasaytya
April 26th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Hey, is that you Tony Montana?
Bus isn’t here so what the hell a good for life and growth
@Joseph Coces This is the one recent event an film that comes close to how the ten age beta me ever was with my dad. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EseJkKZXfyI
Don’t want it end this way but growing away from blue requires being out in the world away from him and my biological family.
Man the hell up. Just remember we all don’t come from the same details that allow us to cope in the same ways.
I’m new to the whole manosphere thing, though I’ve been into game and put for 10 years now, now 30 years of age. It’s strange reading so many people here having such “red pill” epiphanies. I’ve had more or less red pill beliefs since I was about 19 or so before I even discovered pua at 20. It just always seemed so obvious to me what women really were attracted by and the social conditioning we have been fed. You just have to witness the behaviours of women for it to be obvious.
Hi Rollo!
I love your writing, and just bought your second book (hard copy).
That said, sometimes your phrases get somewhat long-winded and hard to follow, making it necessary to reread it several times; I believe this affects non native English speakers (like me) more deeply.
Maybe you could use something like hemingwayapp.com to increase readability. Please don’t take this the wrong way: I really love your writing, and just want to be able to adverb l absorb it fully! š
@ Rollo “Funny that the most memorable sex I ever had was when I was at my poorest. The most beautiful, most eager for sex women I ever banged would come over to my one room studio and want to bang when all I had was a beat up pickup truck a, 2 guitars and my amp.” I keep that in mind all the time. I think there’s a misunderstanding that we have to become Superman, i.e. the “ideal man”, which you already pointed out as NOT being desirable in another post, as women don’t expect or even want to… Read more »
” . . .women indeed do āpreferā men with the physical appeal you suggest.”
All head shots move and smell the same.
Mad Yale Grad seems terrified of breaking out of his shell. Sounds like a natural with heavy, heavy, conditioning and a bad, bad, bad case of Madonna/whore.
Thanks for the response sjfrellc. Negotiating desire is what I struggle with; it’s always been my default to talk about things with a woman if possible, so that’s the first bridge to burn. It’s tough though. On the one hand what I read sounds incredibly clear and logical, but game is far enough removed from my current habit that some days it seems out of reach. In order to understand how to get my frame right, should I start by going back to the mindset I had 8 years ago before I got married, and had plans as to what… Read more »
Hey Rollo,
Quick question about “the pheromonal beta” from your first book.
You say that a man who ejaculates often doesn’t have the same “chemical odor” than an alpha who actually gets laid. However, oxytocin is released after an orgasm, whether the man has reached this orgasm by masturbating or by having sex. So an alpha man would be one who does not have any frequent sexual release. But wouldn’t that make him a beta?
What do you think?
@Jean
Good question
I think all men after ejaculation become part beta for a slight moment until your restores recoupe a new load ready to fire.
Here is a link to check out hope you get the sensei to answer directly
http://www.amepc.org/tau/article/view/1674/2431
Crossphased, It is somewhat of an axiom on Rollo’s blog that you can’t get a prescription for your exact circumstances. Burning bridges is a dangerous proposition in marriage. The stakes are high and the wife holds all the cards. Once you committed to her you gave up your wild card. The best circumstance in marriage is not to have given up frame going into marriage. It is tough to re-establish frame. If you try to do it too quickly now you will engender feelings in your spouse that you are just gaming and are faking it. Resentment from the spouse… Read more »
My ex turned on me when I was 24-ish @ the same time I earned my way into a tier one slot. Now I understand why. I hit my professional/ physical (in certain wags) peak and she was turning on heat to humble me. Her actions make sense in that low animal cunning sort of way that women operate on. Hat tip to Rollo Banging younger chicks; really I think it’s based on lifestyle and fitness. Reasonably fit, youngish type lifestyle, still pull in the been there done that cred. Seems easier to bed chicks 20 years younger then me… Read more »
Mad Yale Grad:
“Military couples are world renowned for cheating. They just shouldnāt be taking state enforced monogamist vows (theocracy, essentially). When are we gonna wise up and admit the stuff just doesnāt work?
Donāt hate the player, hate the game.”
I’ve been suspecting it for a while, but now I’m convinced. You’re PJ.
And a piece of shit.
@Rollo I agree with that you’re saying about the SMV of males at 35-38 but the only issue here is I don’t think the majority of men will ever realize it to the fullest in terms of maximizing status, affluence, achievements, and getting ripped in the gym. This will leave a big pool of males dead in the water at what should have been their peak. Even if the peak is reached and the male is well established well beyond his peers in that age range he will be looking at securing women in the 27-30 age range which are… Read more »
@sjfrelic and @crossphased:
A better more red pill version of Athol Kay’s approach is his first book, the MMSL Primer 2011. That one still has red pill gold in it. The new one s trying to be “purple pill” so as not to offend, so its advice is watered down.
That MMSL 2011 book, plus the Glover NMMNG book and this place, will get all of this into focus. (Along with a bit of CH game advice, he’s still good for that, though I duck out of there when the Galt’s Gulch groupies show up).
“Do you feel like the right is harder to stay in with todayās climate of open hypergamy?”
Open hypergamy should be met with open polygyny. Women are getting their polyandrous, hypergamous needs met through serial monogamy so there’s no reason we men can’t get our polygynous needs met too.
When a young man falls in love he gets oneitis. Oneitis impells him to broach a monagamous contract, whether it be a literal state enforced marriage license or just an “understanding” with his girlfriend that they are “exclusive”.
This needs to go. Like, yesterday.
@Softek – Sorry for the curtness/brevity of my reply. You response made me wonder how you deal with the anxiety? While longer term, taking benzos is addictive, the kind of thing you describe seems like a bit of a panic attack. If you have coverage, with your history, getting a script for zanax or klonopin should be easy. Pop one before you meet a woman and see. Again, do not become dependent on them but for me, the first time I took one after my CPTSD went off the rails it was immediate relief. I actually had to stop because… Read more »
@SFCTon – Spot on. When my tech sales career was really taking off, that’s when my ex belittled me most for being a “salesman”, she literally laughed at me in the car one day about it on a long drive. I actually kind of went off on her because I was stunned. She was a stay at home wife, our daughter was in the back seat of the car I paid for. We were coming home from a fun weekend away and my career was taking off – and this is the time she decides to belittle me for what… Read more »
@Siffrellc – Holyt shit, Jack Donovan is amazing. I took your reco and am working my way through The Way of Men Slowly – damn, do I need a tighter “gang” of men. I do have a circle of male friends but we all live and work in different places now so it’s not as much of a day to day thing.
More to come on this count for sure. But the four values you mention, yup, so spot on. Anyone here who hasn’t read Jack Donovan should get the book today. It’s nothing short of revelatory.
I feel like this post was written partly for me. I’m soon 30 and accidentally knocked up my girlfriend. I’ve been looking to leave for years but practical matters has made it difficult. I have “broken up” when we’ve had fights, but it’s difficult to maintain resolve for the time needed when there is a shortage of homes available for rent and you have to live under the same roof for several months. Add to this the incentive to “become a better girlfriend” and please her man that the soon-to-be-left girl feels and it becomes even harder not to reconcile.… Read more »
Thanks for the article Rollo! That was the common way for aristocrats in the past, as described in classic literature: to focus on his career and sleep around until his 30s, then wed a young girl from a suitable family. In modern Russia, girls marry early (a quote from a women’s forum: “Our city is a regional capital, and here too, if you’re 20 and not in a serious relationship with the aim of marriage, you’re frowned upon as the ultimate loser”), but so do men. There’s high competition for never-married guys (divorced men are considered trouble – they’re probably… Read more »
Yanasaytya’s rant about money and Rollo’s experience of the best sex with the most beautiful woman when he was at his poorest and this quote, “So itās not that the expectation should be one of 23 year old women wanting to get after it with 38 year old men (though this is exactly the scenario in Jenny Bahnās story), but rather that 38 year old men increase exponentially in value to 30 year old women at a time when what he possess is what she needs the most.” Money doesn’t do a man much good with women unless he’s famous… Read more »
Money can be “attractive” to a woman, but rarely is it “arousing” to a woman.
It’s definitely part of the status and provisioning part of the Hypergamy equation, but if a good prostitute can fake sexual interest for a fee, think about what an LTR woman’s provisioning necessity can motivate her to.
“I didnāt want her to become pregnant ”
Yes you did. That’s why you didn’t wear a condom.
Sorry dude but its hard to feel sorry for you when you had a choice.
“Money can be āattractiveā to a woman, but rarely is it āarousingā to a woman. Itās definitely part of the status and provisioning part of the Hypergamy equation, but if a good prostitute can fake sexual interest for a fee, think about what an LTR womanās provisioning necessity can motivate her to.” Rollo you can’t be serious. How many well-earning men are divorced each year? Do you think the beta providers who wifed up baby mamas are getting the same quality and quantity of sex that the listless baby daddy losers got (and in some cases are still getting) from… Read more »
As I said, part of the equation, not the whole equation.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/
Soon to be married, “Iām so sad and angry that she got me in this textbook trap.” She didn’t “get you into” anything. YOU didn’t wrap it up! ” Now I feel like whichever way I chose Iām damned. If I break up I will regain my freedom and finally be able to live life as red pill single man. If I do that however, I will forever feel like I let my child down. If I donāt leave her, I will whither away unhappy in a lifelong relationship with a woman I donāt love and wonder what could have… Read more »
@Mad Yale Grad
Divorce rates for the upper middle class are lower. Typically 25 percent versus the average 50 percent. That doesn’t mean the marriages are happy or sex is abundant. Then again, marriage is more about raising the next generation than wild, passionate romps in the sack.
“So, given that you arenāt giving head or taking it up the ass” Heterosexual men generally don’t take it up the ass but they are engaging in cunning linguistics frequently. And they are increasingly putting it up the ass of women. While certain strains of HPV show no symptoms, they can still result in infertility. As foolish as I think it is, most men still want to have kids some day. Its important to know your partners history as well as her previous partners’ histories. This is why open polyamory is healthier than serial monogamy. An open circle who all… Read more »
@Mad Yale Grad
Money is part of the package. Read the laundry list of what American women want and money places prominently on the list. Along with the correct height, swagger and appearance, she will need well calibrated social skills and status.
Tom, “Money is part of the package. Read the laundry list of what American women want and money places prominently on the list. ” – They want that in a husband/provider, obviously. Not necessarily in a lover/baby daddy. Rollo, “I realize that Iām heading into dangerous territory with this, but I maintain that looks are an integral part of attraction ā sorry, thatās a fact of life” – Agree. I disagree that game is just as necessary as looks to pull women. The best looking men I know never need to approach women, women approach them. I’m not talking IOI’s… Read more »
And what percentage of men do you suppose qualify as “the best looking men” you know?
@Soon to be father and married against my will “I know what I have to to, but itās going to be incredibly painful and Iām afraid that I will not be strong enough to do it. Would really appreciate some counsel and/or support in this matter.” Do not marry , wait till either baby is born or do a biopsy of fetus and “Insist on a DNA test”. You will be surprised in how many accidental pregnancies, the supposed father is not the actual biological father. You are 30 and assuming your gf would be around same age. It is… Read more »
@Soon – First, don’t listen to a fucking thing that jackwad, MadYaleShitforBrains has to say. Okay, with that settled, here are my two cents. 1. Does your family know that she entrapped you? You should make this clear to everyone in your social circle. And make sure they know she did this after you began preparing to leave for that new job (she could sense it I’m sure). But be prepared for some who will not give a shit and want you to “do the right thing”. That’s good in a way as you can excise those folks from any… Read more »
@MYD – Okay, factor in some of the oral cancer cases and you till have a better chance of dying in car wreck or in your swimming pool
You again nicely demonstrate a “distinction without a difference”. You completely misrepresent the risk of HPV – you stupid cunt. Will you just shut the fuck up already? You have nothing to offer worth reading here, nothing.
@Soon to be father and married against my will @Shiva H. P. gives very sage advise, but I would take it a step further. This child is coming into the world against your will, so let’s look at this from a societal and financial perspective. First, I know this will come out as harsh, but let’s get this “do the right thing” crap out of the way. Whatever ‘obligations’ you feel have been programmed into you by a old-school value system that no longer applies and has been twisted by the feminine imperative to bend your will to a woman’s… Read more »
“In Mid-Life Crisis I offered that this contrived ācrisisā really isnāt rooted in a manās yearning for his younger days, but rather his coming to the realization that his SMV and peak potential put him into a state of awareness that he could actualize things he previously thought werenāt possible for him. For many men this is the first time in their lives that they really have the introspection to understand the harsh Red Pill truth.” This is why men should put off long term pair bonding until at least mid-30s and only then it should be a polyamorous LTR… Read more »
@ Glenn No worries. I need to be more assertive with my psychiatrist. I told him I wanted a prescription for Xanax, as I’ve taken it before and it helped a lot, and made it clear I only intend to use it as needed. He just nodded. I’ve brought it up several times but he hasn’t written me a prescription for it and I’m going to have to push him directly into asking if I can have a prescription for it, because what I’m getting is he’s against it, and doesn’t want me abusing them, and he doesn’t want to… Read more »
@Soon I have a very close friend that was in exactly your situation 7 years ago. I told him to ignore everybody and get clear of the bitch before she got her hooks in him. He gave in to his conservative family and married the bitch. They eventually realized I was right; she makes every family gathering miserable with her psychosis, but now he’s stuck with her due to his significant increase in pay during that time. She would rape him in court, plus he was stupid enough to knocked her up again. He’s fucking miserable, and his only escapes… Read more »
@Glenn
He’s got a few video lectures up as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkxDEDEYOsU
@Soon to be father and married against my will
DO NOT MARRY HER! Are you sensing a trend in the advice?
>What maintains the essential fabric of a good family?
Sex God Method
@sirtyrionlannister Now, letās focus on the female okcpid graphic for female preferences, and tell me, what s the preferred male age for the most desirable women? Oh surprise, it turns out that for the most desirable men according to your SMV chart (ie 38 years old = SMV of 10) are preferred for women aged 39-41. And where all young hotties have gone? That’s your evidence, OKCupid? Seriously? I think Rollo is in error, but only because he pegs the age too early. Mid to late 30’s I had nowhere near the attention that I have now in my mid… Read more »
Burninator, bear in mind that even women as old as 47 (per the OKCupid chart) still think a 38 y.o. guy “looks” best to them.
Shiva, “It is not easy to right away get pregnant for a 30 yr old gal.” SMH. Are you a virgin or inexperienced by any chance? Married Against Will, Take Chump No More’s advice and get a DNA test. Tell your “girlfriend” that if the baby is yours you will take responsibility and co-parent with her but do not sign a theocratic state enforced monagamist contract. Live separately from her. Explain to your family that you don’t want to end up just another divorce statistic which is the only outcome for couples who marry under these circumstances, and that you… Read more »
Joseph Coces April 26th, 2015 at 3:11 pm Nice post. But I do have one question. If men tend to become aware of the game that has been played on them by their late 30ās, then why the same men do not teach their male children about it? ________________________________________ I don’t think most men actually do become aware of any game played on them Joseph. At most some might feel something needling away at their subconscious but its very vague and ephemeral. Let’s not forget that there are some very happily married men out here. They manage to be wealthy,… Read more »
MYG, you still here? STFU
Rollo, what do you think about Tariq Nasheed’s take on this realization of SMV here. He says the 7 Year Itch is a fem-centric phenomena made universal. He says men get the itch around the 3 year mark. The reasons are that its not until 7 years into a marriage that a couple becomes firmly established. Usually by that point they’ve achieved some economic success, bought a home, had at least one kid but often two, and the woman finally feels secure in the arrangement, that she’s accomplished all she sat out to do as a wife and mother. She’s… Read more »
What do I say? The same thing I’ve been telling you for a week now ā Read more, pop off less:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/04/08/preventative-medicine-part-iii/
It’s in book 2 for fuck’s sake.
“Thereās a very interesting social convention that accompanies this phase for the married woman, there was even an old movie dedicated to it, itās called The 7 Year Itch. It was a cute movie, but it was based on a very real psychological phenomenon. The cutesy social convention revolves around menās developing a wandering eye for strange vagina after mysteriously being married for 7 (a magic number) years. The reality is that most marriages tend to dissolve at two stage, after the 7 year mark and then again at the 20 year mark.” OK but Tariq says 7 year itch… Read more »
@Lead
You’re a fucking idiot. You’ve shown an inability to read, learn, and comprehend for over a week now. For a guy that lists his academic background as part of his handle, you blatantly display a kind of blithe ignorance and stupidity I’ve rarely seen in my lifetime. You have nothing productive to contribute, just gratuitous walls of idiocy vomited forth from your fingers with all the grace of a drunk sorority girl over a toilet.
I would have to apologize to Soon to be a father for not offering advice. I’m simply not qualified. I only know how to pick my own good parents, a good wife I’m still married to, good Childeren, a good social group, good exclusive guy friends to hang out with. I just don’t know what I would recommend or personally do if I was trapped in that situation. I got nothing.
“I would have to apologize to Soon to be a father for not offering advice. Iām simply not qualified. I only know how to pick my own good parents, a good wife Iām still married to, good Childeren, a good social group, good exclusive guy friends to hang out with. I just donāt know what I would recommend or personally do if I was trapped in that situation. I got nothing.” At least you can admit that. Props to honesty. Soon To Be Father, I’m not a romantic traditionalist or idealistic monogamist so imma keep it 100 with ya, son;… Read more »
@Glenn What I learned today What I learned today 1. Denial ā Still Plugged -In: āThese game guys are a bunch of clowns, thereās no way this works on women. Women arenāt stupid. What a bunch of misogynists.ā 2. Anger ā Post-Red Pill: āThis is ridiculous! Why should I have to jump through all these hoops for women? I just want to be myself. Why couldnāt I have been a Natural AlphaĀ®? I blame my parents/siblings/teachers/God/liberals/feminists/media/society, maybe George Sodini, Andres Breivik, James Holmes wasnāt so crazy after all.ā 3. Bargaining ā Unplugged: āWell maybe it does have some good pointsā¦but,… Read more »
“At least you can admit that. Props to honesty.”
You really are dense. If you were a woman (and I’m not certain you aren’t) I would say I just gamed you.
Should realize my comment was an insincere attempt at apologizing for my laziness (I had a busy day). And I’m just spitting contrived game. Following the first two sentences I’m simply DHVing. You know little about what red pill awareness is and have little understanding of game implementation of red pill principles.
So You Get Nothing, You Lose! Good Day Sir!
@Rollo … great post, as always. Would love to hear your thoughts on Men in their 50’s that have been thrown on the recycle heap … especially since some of us (let’s say 45 to 55) have a few years left in the tank. What does the SMV say about us – obviously we are not at our peak, but we can regain our bodies, lean on our experience, and we still have a furtile mind for new ideas.
So let it rip, help a Brother out.
Rollo, you have the patience of a frickin’ saint. “Thanks Rugby. Iāve read all the link Rollo told me to and some more. I donāt see the red pill helping much once a man falls in love. When that happens all bets are off. They lose their minds. Betas might pull off alpha posturing in the dating scene but once they go crazy for a girl its game over. Once real alphas go crazy for a girl its also game over. Love is the most powerful emotion in the world. Unless we can prevent that, there is no red pill.”… Read more »
@Rollo Burninator, bear in mind that even women as old as 47 (per the OKCupid chart) still think a 38 y.o. guy ālooksā best to them. We’re talking here about normal men though, not men who make great strides in appearance and confidence. While I’m not the last sandwich in hungry town I can tell you for a fact that if you keep in shape and are on top of your own life you will out pull even high value late 30 something guys. There’s something in the water now (or whatever) driving Millenial chicks to older men. Likely their… Read more »
Seraph, “I think the point is that being truly Red Pill means you are aware of the realistic limitations of āLoveā in the face of Hypergamy. Being in love Blue style and Red style are two different things, with two very different mindsets. In fact, I would guess that by definition, a man who āloses his mindā over a woman has slipped out of the Red Pill mindset. Now, is it an immensely HARD thing to do remaining Red Pill in the face of a pretty face, awesome body, frequent sex, strong emotions and our Blue Pill conditioning? Absolutely. That… Read more »
Rollo, I wish you’d make an exception and ban the attention-whore MYG…..please.
Oddly enough your comment helps me sjfrellc. In sure there are many ways to demonstrate higher value but it helps to see an example that way. And it sounded so humble…
sjfrellc, “And Iām just spitting contrived game. Following the first two sentences Iām simply DHVing.”
– Let me see if I got this straight. You’re “spitting game” and “displaying higher value” to some anonymous DUDE on the internetz?!?!?!
Is that what monogamy reduced you to?
“You know little about what red pill awareness is and have little understanding of game implementation of red pill principles.”
– Heh.
“So then like me, you are also openly anti-marriage?” Dead set against it? No. But if I was a young, single man in today’s climate I would hope I was well acquainted with Red Pill, and in so being, would be VERY wary of entering into matrimony. Being Red Pill aware, though, if one were to consider marriage, you would be much better prepared for it. That’s the point. I think the biggest impediment to a happy marriage in today’s world is NOT the limitations of Red Pill thought, but the manner in which society/the FI would attempt to constrain… Read more »
Crossphased “Oddly enough your comment helps me sjfrellc. In sure there are many ways to demonstrate higher value but it helps to see an example that way. And it sounded so humbleā¦” Your last sentence. And it sounded so humble.. That’s game. If I was talking to a woman and she thought it sounded that way, it accomplished it’s goal. “Let me see if I got this straight. Youāre āspitting gameā and ādisplaying higher valueā to some anonymous DUDE on the internetz?!?!?!” That is entirely correct. And by your punctuation, it is evident that you failed my shit test. If… Read more »
” And by your punctuation” SRSLY? “But if I was a young, single man in todayās climate I would hope I was well acquainted with Red Pill, and in so being, would be VERY wary of entering into matrimony. Being Red Pill aware, though, if one were to consider marriage, you would be much better prepared for it. Thatās the point. I think the biggest impediment to a happy marriage in todayās world is NOT the limitations of Red Pill thought, but the manner in which society/the FI would attempt to constrain your agency in implementing it in your life.”… Read more »
“Iām not sold on this idea of āmarried gameā Understandable. “So a man reckons heās at his peak SMV mid to late 30s, how does that help him if heās in a monogamous marriage?” Well, his downward slide is much more gradual than than of his wife, for one. If he understands his SMV can and will stay above his wife (assuming he does not let himself go) he is already ahead of the average guy. If he understands even the basic Game principles, he is at least two steps ahead. Let’s keep in mind that 10 years ago, there… Read more »
If I could go back 3 years into my nuked marriage and change my game it would have been..
What I did: retreat from the madness.. work, eat, drink, fuck, ignore.
What I would do: RECOGNIZE the problem. Work, play, disregard, abandon concern and let her walk if she wants, not fuck, be aloof and absent from the home, appear happy.
-> watch her beg for my attention.
Seraph, too much work for too little return. Let’s face it, there is no such thing as “married game”. Once you sign a state enforced monogamous contract, its GAME OVER (no matter how you spin it).
Mad Yale Grad April 28th, 2015 at 1:16 pm What is your demographic? Let me guess, you are 27, single and not getting laid. You obviously are douche talking about baby mamma’s and your friends getting laid by them.(WTF is that?) My wife is attractive. I would rather be with her rather than any woman I have ever met. So what is my problem? I got married in 1990. I have no desire to hook up with the fat single mom’s that your friends are (who you are jealous of because they are getting laid and you are not). Never… Read more »
“Seraph, too much work for too little return. Letās face it, there is no such thing as āmarried gameā. Once you sign a state enforced monogamous contract, its GAME OVER (no matter how you spin it).”
Annnnddd, I am left wondering how much you read, and what you actually absorbed of what I wrote.
Well, you have apparently convinced yourself quite vigorously to the point of blocking out anything that might intrude, and that’s what’s most important.
@Seraph Thank you āIām not sold on this idea of āmarried gameā Understandable. āSo a man reckons heās at his peak SMV mid to late 30s, how does that help him if heās in a monogamous marriage?ā Well, his downward slide is much more gradual than than of his wife, for one. If he understands his SMV can and will stay above his wife (assuming he does not let himself go) he is already ahead of the average guy. If he understands even the basic Game principles, he is at least two steps ahead. Letās keep in mind that 10… Read more »
@MYG, please, for the last fucking time, read more, pop off less:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/02/03/tales-of-hypergamy-recursive-game/
Rollo,
I think you would have a better chance of arguing with someone’s voice mail message.
He’s got his mantra, and he intends to repeat it to himself. It must be soothing.
Rollo, just read it. It confirms to me that monogamy is a myth. Helen bought into it and therefore told Noheroes from the SoSuave forum that she “couldn’t see him anymore”.
Everything you write here points to this fact yet you still seem to favor monogamy. why?
Ban this Yale faggot.
Matchmaker and Huffpost writer confirms the SMV graph:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/haley-hill/at-what-age-do-women-become-the-hunters_b_4116378.html
[…] marriageable men will decrease . Women do not marry men of of perceived ‘lower status’. Rollo Tomassi talks about SMVĀ in relation to men and women; how men peak much later. If women are waiting until their 30’s […]
SMV is such a fascinating concept. This may be politically incorrect, but I do believe there is a way to represent this in an actual financial conception since the term is actually Sexual Market Value. Here is an attempt. One can look to the global price paid for professional sex annually. It is currently at $250 per hour on average, and it has actually fallen over the last ten years from $350 per hour – likely due to the internet. The averages are also higher at a younger age – $450 per hour at 25. It is lower at older… Read more »