Obesity Culture

Protein_World

In the almost 4 years I’ve had The Rational Male up and running I have neither monetized nor commercialized the blog. I began with the explicit intent of making everything I do accessible and in the past year and a half since the first book published I’ve turned down at least seven different (lucrative) requests to put ads or promos on the blog.

I’m happy to say I’ll still never monetize this blog, but if I were to offer ad space my first spot would be reserved for Protein World. I can’t vouch for the quality of their products beyond what I know in general of protein supplements from years of bodybuilding, but that’s not the point. The point is that these guys had the balls not only to stick to their guns, but to double down when social justice warriors and body fat acceptance “activists” took it upon themselves to systematically vandalize their most recent ad campaign.

Protein_World_2 Protein_World_1

I’ve made my living in brand development for over 20 years now, these guys deserve some respect. Granted, at this point they have no option but to go on offense, but in today’s fem-centric social order this is an anomaly.

I’m drawing attention to this selective vandalism to illustrate a larger point; in a feminine-primary, feminine-dominant social order any reminder of how that order might be challenged (especially on a visceral level) must be met with a selectively sexist countermeasure.

You see, what Protein World’s campaign does is remind less than physically ideal women that despite all social efforts to convince them otherwise, men still evaluate a woman’s sexual market value based on her physical appeal. No amount ‘personal acceptance’ or clinging to internal worth and validation will change the sexual response men evolved to optimize over a hundred thousand years.

I covered this briefly when I explained the misconceptions of Robin Korth in Separating Values:

Conflating Values

One of the major problems women have, and more than even some Red Pill men have, is the conflation of sexual market value with their intrinsic personal value as a human being.

It needs to be emphasized that while personal value is influential in sexual market value, SMV is distinct from your value as a human being. I’m stressing this because, in the age Disney Princess empowerment, this conflation of the two has become a go-to social convention; and not just for women.

What Korth suffers from is presuming her personal value is her sexual market value.

It’s disruptive to her self-perceptions and ego-investments when that presumption is challenged by a man who doesn’t want to fuck her for reasons based on the intrinsic value she believes she’s entitled to by virtue of maturity and imaginings of self-sufficiency. Just as women aren’t aroused by men’s own self-concepts of virtuousness and aspirations of higher purpose, men aren’t aroused by whatever ephemeral self-perceptions a woman may have.

[…]

Feminist ‘equalism’ is always shocked that evolved human biology and its feral predispositions won’t cooperate with it, but such is the frustration with any social order or ideology which fails to account for the realities of human being’s natural states and biological imperatives. There is a conceived, higher-order expectation that, through freewill, conviction or some other learned, reasoned means, people will rise above the influence of their base nature and comply with what they believe will make for an idealized existence.

What egalitarian equalisim, struggles against is basic human instinct, nature and impulse.

This refusal of understanding base motivations is at the heart of these “activists” outrage. Feminized egalitarian equalism fosters the idea that men and women are essentially equal beings with different genitalia and a co-equal capacity for rational agency. Under those auspices men and women should be able to bypass their inherent, evolved, sexual prompts and make the conscious rational effort to focus their arousal and attraction on the more intrinsic personal worth of the opposite sex.

In the egalitarian plan Hypergamy should be as self-consciously sublimated for women as men’s should be for repressing any expression of being sexually aroused by a woman for anything other than her intrinsic personal worth. Any man with a baseline awareness of female behavior knows how effective this plan is.

But that’s not to stop women from simultaneously being offended by visceral expressions of men’s sexual ideals while holding a double standard for their own physically ideal men.

Protein_World_3

You see Protein World applies an equal standard across their ad campaigns, and the message, when paired like so, is one of encouraging a physical ideal for both sexes. To my knowledge there was no initial outrage over the male version of the ad on the right. There was no outcry or messages scrawled on these ads stating “Contrary to popular opinion, men’s bodies do not need to be changed for the beach or anywhere else.”

It’s easy to get caught up in the indignation of yet one more female double standard, so lets back up for a moment and examine why this is.

The most common refrain you’ll hear from Blue Pill trained men and less than physically ideal women is that men have a predilection to sexually objectify women, to see them as objects rather than their esoteric notion of “human beings”. What they fail to understand is that this objectification is exactly what the male brain evolved for.

Objectification Your Honor

In our tribal beginnings men’s sexual response, his very reproductive survival, depended on his capacity for sexual immediacy. While women may require foreplay and pre-coital stimulation, men had to be ready to fuck and go at a moment’s notice. Survival, mate poaching, even the uncertainty of women’s ovulatory/estrus phase of her menstrual cycle, all these factors and more predicated a need for instant sexual reflexiveness for men.

That reflexiveness required a capacity for a man to see a woman, evaluate her sexual/fertility value to him (the boner test) and take action accordingly. About two years ago on another forum, I’d gotten involved in a discussion regarding this sexual evaluation reflex and how women were literally dumbfounded that men would “size up” a woman sexually within the space of a few short seconds. Even men who were only peripherally aware of women outside of their visual focus would make SMV assessments of those women.

In order for this assessment to take place the mental construct of perceiving women as objects was a necessary evolutionary step. The simple truth is that it’s part of men’s neurological firmware to see women’s bodies as objects. It’s a well studied fact that when men see an arousing woman’s semi-nude body it triggers the same area of our brains associated with tool use. Sexual objectification is a survival feature for men, not a bug.

On a limbic level women understand this aspect of male nature. In a very visceral way women know that men put a primary value on their bodies and sexual availability. Ads like this only remind women of, and highlight the fact, that despite all of its concentrated social effort the Feminine Imperative simply cannot undo thousands of years of men evolving that physical objectification – and successfully reproducing as a result of it.

Generation Hypergamy

In a social order that follows the dictates of female sexual strategy it’s unsurprising that women would seek to eliminate that aspect of the male sexual response. Only by controlling that response can women completely enforce Hypergamy as the predominant socio-sexual strategy. These ads offend that desire for control. They remind a woman that her Hypergamous sexual selectivity is (at least presumptively) still mitigated by men being aroused by their physicality, objectifying them and desiring them for reproduction.

Women’s innate solipsism prevents them from ever truly attaining the egalitarian equalist fantasy they ride in order to consolidate that control. Women’s hindbrains want a better-than deal with regards to Hypergamy. Hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level, it wants, it expects a better than deserved exchange for its investment with a man, and it desperately wants assurances that its getting it.

Thus, on a Hypergamous social scale we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.

In 2011 I wrote Women’s Physical Standards and I think it bears quoting here:

This may come as a shock to the “men have impossibly high beauty standards” gnashing of feminist teeth, but it is in fact women who have a much higher standard for an idealized male physique. For all the endless kvetching from women about men wanting “living barbie dolls”, it’s men who’ve historically displayed much broader interests in female body habitus than women ever have.

You see, men will very readily cater their physical sexual “preferences” in accordance with what has proven sexually successful for them in past experiences. In other words, men tend to return to the same watering hole they found to be plentiful in the past. These preferences of convenience manifest themselves as ‘fetishes’ for men. And you don’t even need all that extensive research to prove this.  All one need do is search the vast variety of porn available catering to the physical attributes that men will fetishize. Big boobs, small boobs, big ass, small ass, every hair color of the rainbow, shaved snatch, hairy snatch, teen girls to MILFs and older, tan, pale, ultra-thin to the ubiquitous BBWs (Big Beautiful women). Ladies, name the physical attribute(s), and there’s a fan-group just waiting to bang you. Rule 34 was never more provable than in men’s willingness to fuck damn near any physical demographic of women – just ask the female midgets catering to that fetish of porn.

On the other hand, from a purely physical perspective, it’s women’s idealized masculine form that hasn’t changed in millennia. While there may have been a rubenesque period when men loved the fatties of the 1600′s, no such era ever existed for women’s physical preferences. The classic broad chest, wide shoulders, six-pack abs and squared jaws of greco-roman athleticism are still the idealized male form that has graced EVERY romance novel cover in existence. I’m still waiting for someone to post me a link for a dating site that caters exclusively to women’s fetish of BBMs – average to good looking, fit women specifically looking overweight men. Executive Introductions caters to women seeking affluent, influential men, but women just looking for overweight men, that site doesn’t exist.

On more than a few occasions I’ve made the connection that what we see in a feminine-primary societal order is really a reflection of the female sexual strategy writ large. When we see a culture of obesity, a culture of body fat acceptance and a culture that presumes a natural evolved order of innate differences between the sexes should be trumped by self-impressions of female personal worth, we’re viewing a society beholden to the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamy.

A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.

End Note

It’s been brought to my attention that Roosh will be appearing on the Dr. Oz show tomorrow.

I’ll admit I’m a bit apprehensive of this “interview” as it smacks of red meat for Dr. Oz’s largely overweight viewing demographic (not to mention his obese wife). That said, this interview came at a good time since it should give readers a first hand look at exactly the rationales and social conventions I illustrated in today’s post. Keep this material fresh in your mind while you watch.

305 comments

  1. As a man who is just over 5’7″ tall I have no sympathy for the women in this argument. It is socially acceptable for women to openly disparage short men.

    Furthermore I know how hard it is to have 10% body fat (I’m at around 12%). I weigh myself every morning and I go to bed hungry 50% of the time. The woman in the Beach Body ad should be commended for her hard work and dedication. Its not easy being thin in a world filled with sugary, processed foods.

  2. “It’s been brought to my attention that Roosh will be appearing on the Dr. Oz show tomorrow.”

    They’re both Turks. Second generation immigrant family connections. Everyone knows someone who has a connection with someone famous or successful in the same ethno-demographic. Strings were pulled, Jack Donovan tribal style. Good for him.

    Tariq Nasheed says thirsty n*ggas were the first to mainstream “fat acceptance” with their “thick gal” rhetoric. In the 80s it meant a fit girl with a phat booty. Women ran with it and before you knew it obese women were “thick”. He blames da menz.

  3. Feminists dig themselves into a ditch to say “Fuck you Society!” and declare that ditch Mt. Everest, and then they want the attention and validation that the people who *actually* HAVE climbed Mt. Everest receive.

    All without doing absolutely nothing to deserve it.

  4. Rollo, please please can you set up your site so that the links open in a new window of their own. It drives me crazy that every time I have to follow a link and close the link afterwards I exit the blog instead or have to click back. Thank you. You’re still my hero from the days of Sosuave. Not sure if you remember. Any way, keep up the good work.

  5. so far, I think the ads with the men weren’t up in their subways (tubes as they’re called there) So the ads with the woman is a poster that someone has access to vandalize.
    However, it’s still true and your points remain valid that there hasn’t been, nor is there any at the present, any outrage over the ads with the men.
    Roosh provides an easier source for indignation craving talk shows. But I’m at least glad he is on this show. Paired with Christine Hoff Sommers, Claire Lemon, it’s a sign that more opportunities are coming up to counter the other side.

  6. Jafyk- can’t you just right click and choose “open in new window” or “open in new tab”?

  7. @Jayfk

    Uh… middle click with your wheel or right click and open in new tab/window? Every modern browser supports the features. Use ’em.

  8. Yale grad, didn’t happen in the 80’s. Thick girl didn’t look like what is attempted to pass as thick now. But he’s right in thirsty men playing a part in it.
    You can just browse through some old videos and see. The cheaper digital sensor, the internet, also played a role in it.

  9. Just a quick note on the brand management. If you look at the various people and brands SJWs have attacked in recent years it is the companies which told them to pound sand that have thrived. The last thing you want to do is apologize – as soon as they see weakness they’ll be on you like a pack of hyenas instead of looking for an easier target.

  10. @Robert Marks

    Third wave feminism was all about lowering the bar so that fat, ugly chicks could finally have a shot at reproducing under the guise of “equal rights”. Funny how none of that included giving short, unemployed guys a chance to reproduce as well. Quite the opposite: every guy short of an HG8 was de facto shut out of the market as all the fat/ugly girls are now convinced they deserve Brad Pitt too because they’re “such a great person”.

    If there’s one thing men and women both need to learn in this world: nobody gives a shit who you are, they only care what you can and will do for them. Period. End of story.

  11. “A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.”

    How does this help the top 1% of women? What incentive do they have to ensure this occurs?

  12. Maybe these women have a point.. “Beach bodies” upsets them because, as they write, you don’t need that body to go to a beach. I think Protein World was being to politically correct when they created that ad. They should have simply said the truth and included texts such as “Increase your sexual market value” and “Attract higher quality men” and “Look more attractive to most men”. Why beat around the bush as if you have to be skinny to go to the beach. We all know thats not true. But telling women to visit Protein World in order to “Get a richer husband” is truth no one can deny.

  13. To the guys who responded to me, lol. I guess we all learn something new. Most times I just click links and it opens up in a new window. I’m just saying it’s user friendlier that way. Most people just left click links to open them, no? Anyway, thanks for your responses.

  14. Today’s episode of Dr oz featured monique davis and her sharing her story of her 100 lbs weight loss.

    So todays show, weight loss praise. Tomorrow’s show, roosh v is a bully for saying women should be thin.

    You’re right, it is their game

  15. If a woman is really unhappy with her looks, it’s true expression is her fear is that she can’t do any better than you. Think about that the next time you feel like offering some reassuring words.

  16. I was unaware that Roosh was a notorious fat shamer who bullied women all over the world. I thought he was a guy that wanted to fuck attractive women all over the world because US women are poor examples of the feminine form and then share that experience for a nominal price for men to read. Really, Roosh a notorius fat shamer? Do any men know this? I suppose women are going to be lectured to that Roosh is a fat shamer tomorrow and they will beleive it based on the principles in the above essay. By a medical scammer that makes shit up for profit. Athol Kay has a billion times more dignity than Dr. OZ (no buck left unturned even if it means lying).

    Good luck with Law #5 RooshV.

  17. @sjfrellc, I’m going to make a prediction here and say that by the end of the show Roosh will (as planned) be shamed by Dr. Oz. And the obese women in the audience (i.e. all of them because the producer Lisa Oz stacked the audience), will leave with the good feelz thinking they took him down a peg and vindicated their self images.

    Roosh will likely pocket some money in the 5 digit range.

  18. Oz is right. Fat shaming as a behavior modification technique doesn’t have much merit. That being said, obese women are making ridiculous assertions about their “inherent beauty.” Few men should date a woman that weighs more than him*.
    However Roosh performs in the interview, he will lose. Roosh is on the show to be pilloried and nothing more. But his brand and ROK will benefit tremendously from this exposure. Troll game recognized :).

    The only time a man should date heavier women…
    http://www.mmaplayground.com/discussion/topic/little-urijah-strip-club-27465p1.html

  19. Reblogged this on ciacorps and commented:
    So very true. Today’s Western women are all now obsessed with men being at least 6’3″ and fit, and if they do not have those very narrow parameters, men are openly humiliated with the most vicious vitriol ever spoken. Yet these very same women who scourge men for being “too short” or “too fat” become enraged if men suggest that they try to take care of their appearance more. The double standards are so glaring.

  20. @sjfrellc

    Good luck with Law #5 RooshV.

    I’m gonna have to go with Tom on this:

    But his brand and ROK will benefit tremendously from this exposure. Troll game recognized

    Most of the demographic of that show aren’t buying Roosh’s books, but now they will because they want to be offended. They want to feel shocked and disgusted. It’s like the moment in Private Parts where they discussed Howard Stern’s listeners:

    Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for – are you ready for this? – an hour and twenty minutes.

    Pig Vomit: How can that be?

    Researcher: Answer most commonly given? “I want to see what he’ll say next.”

    Pig Vomit: Okay, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?

    Researcher: Good point. The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.

    Pig Vomit: But… if they hate him, why do they listen?

    Researcher: Most common answer? “I want to see what he’ll say next.”

    Guarantee you the kind of brain-dead dicknozzles that watch Dr. Oz would read Roosh’s books and site for that exact reason. He’s building a reputation for offending these people. That’s the reputation he should be and is in fact guarding.

  21. “Roosh will likely pocket some money in the 5 digit range.”

    Good observation. Makes me feel better he will get a meal ticket out of an intellectual hack job by OZ (pay no attention to that man beyond the green curtain). I wish Roosh the best. It is a big stage, for sure.

    The promo statement is unfortunate.

    Roosh is a big boy and even if they stack the deck against him, he’s resourceful in his thoughts. The worst day in the Manosphere is still better for us men than the best day in the Femosphere for women.

    Roosh knows a few of the laws of power.

    Law 3

    Conceal your Intentions

    Keep people off-balance and in the dark by never revealing the purpose behind your actions. If they have no clue what you are up to, they cannot prepare a defense. Guide them far enough down the wrong path, envelope them in enough smoke, and by the time they realize your intentions, it will be too late.

    Law 28

    Enter Action with Boldness

    If you are unsure of a course of action, do not attempt it. Your doubts and hesitations will infect your execution. Timidity is dangerous: Better to enter with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity. Everyone admires the bold; no one honors the timid.

    Law 22

    Use the Surrender Tactic: Transform Weakness into Power

    When you are weaker, never fight for honor’s sake; choose surrender instead. Surrender gives you time to recover, time to torment and irritate your conqueror, time to wait for his power to wane. Do not give him the satisfaction of fighting and defeating you – surrender first. By turning the other check you infuriate and unsettle him. Make surrender a tool of power.

  22. OK, I got a question; As most of you know I’ve been a gym rat since high school, my younger brother was an amateur circuit competitor in the mid 90s and we’ve been in and out of various gyms for almost 30 years.

    In that time I’ve noticed that the demographic of gym goers has shifted. When I was in Florida I noticed that membership was about 70% men, 30% women. Of the men there I’d say the majority of them were in significantly better shape than the women.

    Of the women in my FL gym maybe 3-4 stood out as being what I’d rate an HB8 or above, while the men there far eclipsed that. I’m always at the gym around 5:30 to 6 am so that might have something to do with it, but even the evening/weekend shift wasn’t much better.

    In Nevada the ratio is about the same for membership, and the ratio of hot women is still about the same, however the number of exceptional men is much lower (which I guess should be expected). I feel like I lucked out because I’m in so much better shape than some guys 10 years my junior.

    My point is that it seems like there’s a shift towards more men getting in better shape than women in the gyms these days.

    Do any of you notice this trend?

  23. I haven’t been a gym rat since college, seemed like a tremendous waste to pay gym fees when running and lifting at home/neighborhood are so easy in the sun belt.

    I’m Sure Roosh will suffer significant jeering from OZ’s crowd. But honestly…LOL at the fatties who can’t take the truth.

  24. My concern with Roosh is that his publicity with Dr. Oz will throw the rest of the manosphere under the bus.

    I hope this isn’t the hill Roosh wants to die on. I still have a lot of respect for the guy, but I can’t imagine he went on Dr. Oz to be pilloried without a good payoff. There’s no way he went on that show and schooled Dr. Oz in his own house; the network and Lisa Oz wouldn’t allow that.

    I’ll withhold judgement until after the show, but if that trailer is any precursor, they got the indignation rush they wanted from him. Any publicity is not always good publicity.

  25. If I were to guess at Roosh’s thinking on this, I would say he truly believes that western society is doomed. In that line of thought, why not profit from exposure while you can?

  26. “My point is that it seems like there’s a shift towards more men getting in better shape than women in the gyms these days.

    Do any of you notice this trend?”

    Gym rat/fit bro boldly declares, “Imma just gonna go for the biggest girl in the bar!”

    And we think fat shaming will ever work in this country? Fatties are being pedestalized here!

  27. Hat tip to Rollo, Roosh and Roissy. Solid three legs of the pillar of the manosphere. Making a difference one gang of men at a time, whether in real life or in a virtual world.

    Paging Glenn…..Five years ago, I took the initiative of meeting up with virtual internet guys on a Michigan Sportsman’s Forum for deer habitat. Those efforts in having a real world gang of 4-5 guys with a larger acquaintance of 15 guys with a like minded purpose with zero feminine influence has changed my life. My life was fine before that, but a gang of men excluding women’s thoughts allows focused masculine male betterment of an individual. Like minded individuals. Men that were out to help their buddy instead of being self aggrandizing like the Yale fucktard.

    I became red pill aware and had tremendous difficulty with passing shit tests with married man game implementation. But I turned it around in the past year with effort and focus. It is working. I still have higher highs and lower lows but a huge upword trend. The successes are sublime and the crashes are manageable.

    A virtual (online) gang of men is similar to the fake it or make it mentality. But a boots on the ground real in person group of 5 red pill men is golden for possibility of enhancing your laughing at and vaccinating against the frivolousness of the feminine imperative.

  28. Cannot comment on your gym observation as the kind of gyms I go to are 90% men there to get strong and not flop around like fairies

    I will say my observation is I see more women on the ends of the spectrum then in the middle. Extremely fit and fine or blobs but I understand that could be heavily skewed. I am seeing more girls in the kinds of gyms I train in and they are there with serious intentions regarding strength training; pulling sleds, pushing prowlers, learning how to squat correctly, doing pull ups…. we use to get the odd freak who wanted to be men, did tess.etc but I haven’t ran into one of them in years while we have a hand full of hammers training in our dungeon

  29. “My concern with Roosh is that his publicity with Dr. Oz will throw the rest of the manosphere under the bus.”

    The manosphere is a bottoms up movement. If the top wants to suppress it it has to quash the motivations of those that see the Manosphere as a resource.

    It will still grow from the bottom up. We men need this shit. The value for men cannot be suppressed. The three R’s are not mysogynists. I’m not a mysogynist. I love my wife (don’t tell her that), think she is beautiful and want to do things that will benefit her greatly. But that doesn’t mean I don’t have red pill awareness and need to always be performing and game her.
    I need Roosh. I need Rollo and I need Roissy.

    I have the above mentioned core member of guys that are nothing but validated by manosphere knowledge and red pill awareness and game technique. Bottoms up it is a win for me and the other five guys. We win by Rollo, Roosh and Rollo have spoken up. We have purpose and focus in dealing with women. (Highly resourceful to begin with, with great minds and a clue to begin with, but needing to connect the dot’s. You guys (the three R’s) should patent the saying “wish I would have know that earlier” and charged a nickle for anyone that ever said that.

    If another man can be converted to understand the value of the manosphere and 10 women bitch about it, Roosh wins. After the show, if people google roosh, go to amazon, then google Manosphere (hopefully he can mention the term and get men interested even if a 1 to 100 ratio to viewers.) then go to different blogroll sites.

    I sense a forboding too. Roosh had youtube videos in Eastern Europe on popular TV shows and it didn’t look good.

  30. @Rollo

    Any publicity is not always good publicity.

    While it may be bad for the ‘sphere at large, I’ll bet it get sales for him. I can’t be angry if that’s how he plays it.

  31. First, Rollo, outstanding observation about the marketing. I was buzzing RoK today over the horrible Firestone ad (see the site for details) getting into the nuances of gender-based marketing, specifically brand loyalty, gender-based purchasing decisions (men buy the majority of tires) and how to actually affect change in the corporate environment – and it ain’t about the hashtags.

    I made a point there about Marketing 101 being Don’t Insult The Customer, and pointed out how the Firestone ad basically denigrated masculine pursuits in favor of pure female vindictiveness, etc. etc., but the ad and bruhaha sparked an office debate about whether or not the company was, indeed, insulting it’s potential client base, or if it was merely using traditional advertising techniques to produce emotional leverage to secure a purchasing decision – a subtle hair to split, I know.

    My point was that the marketers cagily figured that anyone who would actually become upset by the ad for “body shaming” was not, indeed, a potential customer by virtue of their indignant defense of laziness and self-indulgence. It would only be perceived as an insult by those who had placed themselves beyond the customer pool. Anyone who was more motivated by social justice issues than they were personal feelings of insecurity about their appearance had self-selected out of the customer base, and any public indignation about the ad would only serve to further boost sales. That was my position before I found out just how they were booming. Validation tastes good. And I enjoy that kind of aggressive marketing.

    Your insights on fat acceptance and porn are straight on, as is the masculine ideal for beauty. While there is male chub porn, it tends to be gay or super-fetishy. And your observation about the role of objectification in masculine sexuality is dead-on. As a professional objectifier of women I could go on and on, but the simple fact is that when it comes to dudes, the standards of excellence are much higher and the acceptable margin of deviance from that ideal is much, much thinner for dudes.

    But the point is that physical objectification is as important to masculine sexuality as contextual elements are to feminine sexuality, as the marketers tacitly understand. The ad covers both, providing an aggressively sexy woman standing defiantly – in context – on a beach, parading her sexuality around like an atomic weapon while most of her unseen objective competitors are bearing slingshots.

    Obesity culture and “fat acceptance” is a naive attempt by low-status women to group-shame men in the guise of “corporate patriarchy”, sure – but it’s much more aimed at their female peers who would go to such lengths. The Crab Basket hates anyone actually working that hard to get ahead – it’s too much effort, and there’s just too much Downton Abbey to watch. By using fat-shaming as the basis for a social justice crusade, the pro-chubby feminists are attempting to shame other women through the power of consensus, and thereby sabotage their willingness to expend an unequal amount of effort out of a misplaced sense of social guilt.

    The real message of the backlash is “You’re setting the bar too-high, and things suck enough for us already! If you skinny bitches don’t stop going to the gym and encouraging the beta-losers to do likewise, you’re compromising the integrity of the consensus concerning our assortive mating choices and encouraging these idiots to actually expect something out of us!”

    Low-SMV women have very little recourse, if the pool of available men in their bracket suddenly start having inflated expectations. The feminist/SJW fat-acceptance movement is essentially a false consensus, as the skinny bitches agreeing with the chub-power girls are faking it. They know the key to high SMV is serious effort . . . but by supporting “fat acceptance” they give their marginal competitors all of the reason they need to rationalize hitting Golden Corral instead of the gym. They use their chub friends to raise their comparative SMV while chattering about “body acceptance”. Meanwhile they’re woofing diet pills, doing yoga, and working out with their other fit friends, rationalizing what they’re doing as “healthy”. Nothing anti-social justice there.

    As far as Roosh goes, I look forward to seeing it. He is the Dark Knight of the Manosphere, and if anyone could make Dr. Oz look bad, he could. Also looking forward to the comment section on the show. Ought to be fun.

    Keep up the outstanding work.

  32. I work out at home so i can’t comment on the gym male/female ratio. My gf does go to the gym, but she zones out listening to her music and barely pays attention unless she sees a woman built like a man – then sends me a photo for my amusement.

    I must say, i’m just sitting back eating my low fat popcorn watching this shit blow up. My hats off to Protein World for realizing cowing to people who would never use their product wasn’t going to produce net sales. Chaotic press is better than no press and their sales are going up despite the howls and wails of protest from the swine.

    Deft enjoying the spokesladies take on the bra burning dolts raising hell

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/luisa-zissman-slams-bra-burning-feminists-5591460

    This is sort of the catalyst for showing that the SJW power of trying to instill fear through use of the ‘misogynist’ label would get them to back down. What they failed to consider was the actual possibility a company might finally tell them to fuck off LOL

    Slacktivism fizzles out due to Crisco drippins on the fuse.

  33. Why not pose a question like: “Should I be obligated to be sexually attracted to fat women any more than women should be obligated to be sexually attracted to me?”

    “What’s wrong with finding someone sexually unattractive?”

    These are very tough questions. I feel a pang in my chest even writing that out because I know what it feels like to be rejected. But it’s the truth. We don’t want to look at it, but it’s the truth.

    We’re hard-wired to desire physical ideals. It’s just the way it is. Although there is a very good case, as Rollo’s written about, for women actually holding men to higher physical standards than men hold women to.

    In the context of hypergamy vs. spreading the seed, this greater need in women for men to meet their physical ideals actually becomes patently clear.

    But as soon as a Beta demands more sex or feels he’s entitled to more than he’s getting — just as unattractive women might feel entitled to a better fit for maximizing their hypergamy — then he’s a selfish, sexist, chauvinistic asshole who needs to be nailed to a cross ASAP.

    If a fat woman gets turned down by a guy because she’s fat, then it’s “U GO GRL! SHOW THAT ASSHOLE WHAT A REAL WOMAN IS!”

    Us men have to deal with rejection on a regular basis. Women get a tiny fraction of a taste of our world and they can’t handle it for even two minutes — so much so that they have to flip the script 180 degrees into something positive without hesitation.

    It’s GOOD he rejected me sexually, because that just proves that ALL MEN ARE ASSHOLES!

    …yep, okay. Have fun with that.

    I don’t believe in fat shaming, but I don’t believe in fat acceptance either. I believe in self-acceptance, which includes that no one is obligated to accept you.

    I do my best to hold other people to the same standards I hold myself to. To anyone that would criticize me for saying how hard it’s been having been with two really fat girls, and how I’m not attracted to them, that I can get it up but it was an unpleasant experience —

    — I’d say hey, guess what? What about finding out about girls talking behind my back saying I was a complete pathetic loser for asking them out on a date, and laughing about what a chump I was.

    Nobody cares about that. They think rejection’s unique to them?

    Like I said, they get a taste of what the vast majority of men experience tenfold on a regular basis, and they can’t handle it.

    Being fat is just the flavor of the week for that topic. There are a lot of unattractive things, like not being feminine.

    I’m learning Game and TRP because I had to FACE and ACCEPT that up until now, women thought of having sex with me on the same level as incest.

    That stings a lot. It wasn’t easy for me to accept that.

    The truth hurts. The connecting point here is that I’m not an exception to that rule any more than anyone else is. Feminists like to run men up the flagpole as seeing themselves above women, when really it’s not like that at all.

    Men learning Game and TRP and men who’ve had to accept their pasts as sexual failures. Accept all the humiliation and rejection and then deal with it and move on.

    But if you say ANYTHING about what women should do to be more attractive to men — oh, god forbid. If you don’t accept every woman just the way she is, then you’re a monster.

    Of course, if you’re a good guy with a decent paying job and like sending cards and flowers and chocolates to your girlfriend on Valentine’s Day and telling her that you love her, and you want to have more sex with her — well then, you’re just a monster, and you might as well be a rapist.

    One last note:

    I feel like the manosphere has already been thrown under the bus a long time ago. Feminists will use controversial articles that spark indignation as cannon fodder for their points, and their audience will eat it up every time.

    They don’t want rational debate. They don’t want to actually explore the issues. They just want indignant, fiery things that will rile them up and give them some good cannon fodder.

    I have a feeling the Dr. Oz thing will just spark a huge controversy for a week or two, and that I’ll be seeing tons of feminists posting about it all over Facebook — how disgusted they are with it, how Roosh should be nailed to a cross, etc.

    Seriously, this is like Hate Week, or the two minutes of Hate or whatever it was in 1984. I suppose we haven’t really come that far from the coliseum days.

    It’s entertainment under the guise of debate. If people really wanted a debate it would be a lot more boring, because then it’s not about stirring up reactions in people — it’s about hypothesizing about human sexual nature, and the sexual differences in terms of preference between men and women, and for what reasons, etc.

    Honestly seeing stuff like this disheartens me quite a bit. I’ve gotten a lot out of Rational Male and connecting with the guys on here, but that’s all lost in the mainstream.

    Over at HUS there was an article recently explicitly saying something along the lines of, “If a guy EVER refers to the red pill in a way that isn’t pure disgust and ridicule, then he’s evil and is a member of the most bigoted group of people on the face of the earth.”

    I think I embellished that a bit, but not by much. If I remembered what the article was I’d link it, but I forgot. I’m sure a google search for “HUS red pill bigoted” will probably pull it up, lol.

    Hamsterpocalypse 2.0 will be coming after the Dr. Oz show, I’m sure.

    I’m just reminded of the Buddhist saying of the world being on fire. I’ve found a nice little niche reading and posting on here, and it’s all working out okay for me, but as far as the mainstream goes, and what the common person thinks of the red pill if they ever heard of it — that ship has sailed. It’s basically been portrayed in the same light as the KKK as far as I can tell.

    If this thing with Roosh ends up being nothing more than cannon fodder for the FI, it’s just going to be backing the bus up over the manosphere for the umpteenth time.

  34. As far as gym experience, I get no insights into demographics. I’m in there and out of there.

    I have been back to the gym for the last 9 months and stick to an intense workout. Limit my time between sets to 1 min. do reps that work to fatigue.

    Lots of the gym members are lolligagging like someone is spending time there because someone is paying them by the hour. The gym is a resource that I go to to pump iron and powerlift to increase testosterone ( and that happened to me I doubled my low levels into the normal, not so pathetic range–of course me being a doctor I can check levels at will).

    Changing from the topic of demographics in gyms, back in 1979, as a freshman in college, I used to work out in the Rockne Memorial Gym at the University of Notre Dame which was right next to my Morrissey hall dorm. Go to classes, Work out, go to the South Quad dining hall. Have a great meal. A kings feast. Over 1.5 years my bench press max moved from 185 to 265 in that time frame. Every session I went I increase my pyramid last one set with one rep to my max by 5 pounds each net session. I had all fast twitch muscle in play.

    My buddy, lifting partner, sadly increase his max bench from 180 to 185 lbs in the same time frame. But he soldiered on and was a cross country runner and somehow lost a testicle (not that one testicle doesn’t let the other compensate). He never got discouraged, followed the gameplan and was a better man for it even if he only ever toned his cross-country running form.

    Pumping iron with a purpose is a mindset. It is a surrogate behavior for having strength in a primitive pre-civilized gang.

    The original essay above Obesity Culture, underscores demographics. Males need to work out and lift. Women need to not make excuses for not working out to fight obesity. Men need to lift weights to enhance strength. Women need to work out with aerobic and core exercises (abdomen) until their brain screams that the workout is intense.

    I see lazy people at my gym.

  35. Although perhaps I’m being too pessimistic.

    For all the jeering and derision, there’s going to have to be some people who think “Well hey, he might be coming off like an asshole, but you know, I get what he’s saying.”

    And so the seed is planted. We’ll see how it turns out.

    The women not being able to handle rejection thing gets me though. All I can think of is Mike Tyson going on that rant:

    “YOU WOULDN’T LAST TWO MINUTES IN MY WORLD, BITCH! YOU WHITE PUSSY!”

    I think a little while after that he said “I’ll fuck you til you love me, faggot.”

    That might’ve been going a little overboard (personally I find it hilarious) but I always loved Mike Tyson’s self expression to the point of completely disregarding other people. Really refreshing in an insanely politically correct culture. Even if he was basically completely insane, I kind of respect that in a way. I knew a guy like that in high school and he was one of my best friends for a while. Even though he could be a complete asshole, it was just a byproduct of saying what was on his mind, not out of being malicious.

    So there’s that.

    I’ve shared this once before but I have to one more time for posterity. Makes me lol every time:

  36. My husband and I used to go the gym together everyday… and we always saw more men than women. And there were only two women that looked “beach body ready.” Whereas there were a lot more men who were ripped and took their physique seriously.

    Now we just work out at home… but Ian Ironwood is right about this being more for the purpose of attacking the women who adhere to looking like this, or that even try to. My own close close friend that I’ve known for 25 years of my 28 (!!) tried to slim-shame me for losing the weight so fast after this last baby. She was like… “You’re shaming other women who can’t do that!” We had a serious argument over my being in top shape and bettering myself not being the same as those women who feel jealous or insecure when they see my body! Ridiculous!

  37. Pretty much sums up my reaction to landwhales that don’t like being discriminated against.

    I understand being upset about discrimination on the basis of things that weren’t a choice like race or eye color or whatever. But fat? You can do something about that, and you knew ahead of time how men would react to your Stay Puft Marshmallow Man impression. You only have yourself to blame for your poor choices.

  38. And at this point I’m shooting for Wednesday night for a test of the voice server with the group, with an attempt to record things coming the weekend after this one. Sorry to all who’ve expressed interest for the delays. Slow deployment from the provider was unexpected, and I want to have time to smooth the kinks out before we try to have some productive discussions.

  39. “If a fat woman gets turned down by a guy because she’s fat, then it’s “U GO GRL! SHOW THAT ASSHOLE WHAT A REAL WOMAN IS!”

    Us men have to deal with rejection on a regular basis. Women get a tiny fraction of a taste of our world and they can’t handle it for even two minutes — so much so that they have to flip the script 180 degrees into something positive without hesitation. ”

    This. I wonder if, as an experiment, short, really unattractive guys with uneven faces or acne started a #wewant2datefatgirlz movement, these women would accept or reject these guys?

    Me thinks they’d LJBF’d them and hold out for that GAINZ fitbro or Curvy Shrine dude who’s getting marriage proposals on youtube. Which leads to, when we’ve got attractive men on youtube openly declaring their preference for BBWs and even SSBBWs over thin chicks – what can be done about the obesity epidemic?

  40. There is a an extreme fetish culture among females. It amounts to about one percent of them. Among males it is about 3%. From this and with some knowledge of statistics you can determine the difference in sex drive between men and women. It is about 1/2 standard deviation. Not a lot.

    What this means though is that among high drive men there is a LOT of competition. “I’m doing 9s and you are only doing 7s.” Or “I got a fetish girl and you are stuck with a vanilla.” Or “my girl LIKES threesomes and you are lucky if you get straight missionary.”

    I like reading Literotica. The number of men commenting on threesome stories, “I wish that was me”, is very common.

    The corollary is that a woman trying lo lock down an Alpha will extend her range. At least temporarily.

    The response of women to their Beta providers on seeing an example of this? “Don’t even think about it. You are lucky to have me.”

  41. Sun Wukong
    April 27th, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Reminds me of a Chicago radio station I worked at (early 60s) which didn’t use a compressor or limiter. One announcer liked to run his announcements in the +3 range frequently pegging the meter. The engineers (me among them) used to like telling him that, “if you go below 3 you are undermodulating.” It was a standing joke.

    That looks like a nice high quality meter. Probably a Sure. Jewel bearings.

  42. “There’s no way he went on that show and schooled Dr. Oz in his own house; the network and Lisa Oz wouldn’t allow that.”

    You can’t fight the editing room. In the broadcast cut Roosh will come off as they have predetermined he will come off.

  43. @M Simon

    That looks like a nice high quality meter.

    I wouldn’t really know. It rarely leaves the bottom enough for me to tell.

  44. @Rollo

    I lift at a Golds turned independent, and i have to say the guys look way better. About 1/3 of the women are overweight to obese and lot of the guys are training their asses off. Even casually listening will hear conversations about young guys using gear. But look at the action stars vs stars in early 80s and before. Charlton Heston was a shirtless hunk…now he would be mocked for being tiny and frail, but Marylin Monroe would still be hot.

    But this is to be expected as the pool of hot women goes down the men respond with even more work to compete. Men are taking illegal performance enhancing drugs and working like crazy to be competitive, while women on the other hand can lounge around and eat. Have to hand it to them, their cartel systems amazing.

  45. I remember gyms in Brazil had a lot more women than in the States.

    To me it’s three reasons;

    –The balance is so tipped in women’s favor in the US. The men have to compete harder and harder as the women become fatter and fatter. I’m sure that’s nothing new to read here. But it’s still overwhelmingly true. And how many girls who are 20 pounds overweight (only!) get bombed out on Tinder etc after posting a cleavage shot or something, then just let that day’s workout slide? Next thing you know, they’re not feeling any need to do their Bosu ball lat raises or whatever nonsense they do.

    –Both sexes project what they want onto the other genders supposed wants. Men are overwhelmingly physically oriented and assume women must be. So men hit the gym. Women build up their resumes, financial status thinking men must like that (because they do). So some projection leaks in there. It always amazes me that only about 1 in 5000 women in the USA squats avidly. They have no idea what avid squatting would do for their bodies, therefore, their lives. Here I am at 44 years old, receding, not much of a career and I squat three times a week as if my hips are worth a shit in this world. To clarify, I don’t squat to sculpt my hips because that would be really fruity, but I just love the mechanics of the exercise and the vigor of it. Any squatter knows what I’m talking about.

    –Not to excuse the ladies, but weight lifting, throwing iron, being strong is kind of a guy thing. I used to do presses with bricks when I was 5 years old. It’s a bit more of a guy’s world. A lot of women would feel weird going in and squatting while surrounded by a room full of young meatheads.

  46. @sjfrellc,

    I have a long-winded question for you since you are a doctor/lifter/guy who is aware of T-levels. First off, much respect to you as a doctor.

    Here’s my thinking lately. I’ll give you as brief a weight room history as I can;

    -I’ve always dinked around in the weight room. I was pretty strong as a teen, benching 225 as a long-armed 145 pound kid. I’m 5’8″ maybe 5’9″. I squatted a lot in my early twenties and was repping well over 300 as a 165 pounder. I actually quit because my legs were swelling up so much that I felt like I was getting a pear body and too much of the ol’ J-Lo going on. Kept lifting though, mostly the ‘frat guy’ routine, I call it. Bench, curl, lat raise, isolation stuff. Dips, whatever. Just a normal, somewhat misguided guy in the weight room just looking to pump up my lumps until I was about 38. Then I started powerlifting, focusing on the low bar back squat (Rippetoe style) Deadlifts. I currently do sets of 5 at about 345 at DL. Probably could max at 385-400, maybe. I squat frequently and I’ve seriously plateaud there, doing reps at 230-235. To my credit, I go extremely low, almost ATG. I do a lot of standing mil. press. Anyway, I’m not just going to ask about ‘how to gain?’ etc. I have an alternate concern that’s a touch sacrilegious to lifters. To start, I have an absolutely normal diet. I mean normal for anyone. Probably 2000k a day. I eat well, not perfect, very low sugar intake. I drink 5-7 units a week maybe. I try to get a decent batch of protein post workout. No protein shakes, bars, supplements of any kind though. I will not go there. I know I should if I want to gain, but it’s not happening. Lately, I’m starting to wonder if I’m just in ‘no-man’s land’ as a lifter. I do low rep powerlifts but I eat like a 140 pound preschool teacher who does Pilates 3 times a week. I’m currently 182-185 with too high bodyfat 14-17%, I think. My T feels low for me. I’m not feeling like a young man really. I am 44 but I wonder if I’m keeping myself in a state of being permanently broken down from powerlifting combined with low calorie diet, relative to ‘real’ powerlifters who eat 6000k a day. Could this be a problem? I wonder if I just simply live in a state of permanent catabolism/high cortisol due to how I lift and eat. Any validity? I feel okay but I’ve been at this for so long, I would hardly know otherwise. Any thoughts? I would hate to give up the compound lifts, but BMI, blood pressure and body fat are all slightly in the ‘bad’, though not critical. What say you?

  47. …to continue.

    The ‘sacrilegious’ thing I want to speculate on is about T-levels/hormonal balance. It’s more or less written in stone that the compound lifts raise T-levels. That’s just a fact to people but I’ve seen the world of health/exercise come up with some real whoppers before, as far as complete mistakes. So I would second guess anything from the exercise world. Is it possible that the T-spike is a temporary post workout spike, but that overall there is actually lower T for a powerlifter who isn’t eating enough? I just thought of it the other day. Rippetoe is kind of funny in a lot of ways. I mean he will flatly say that a 6 foot tall man should be 250 pounds. If he isn’t, I’m sure Rip would just dismiss him as a ‘pussy’. In Rip’s world, all men should powerlift 3 times a week, eat a ton of whatever they want, drink milk, drink their bourbon and recover 4 times a week. Every man should deadlift 500, bench 300, press their bodyweight, squat 400. Whatever. He’s said, “You’re not a man until you’re 200 pounds,” He hates abs vehemently. Anyway, I love Rip and I understand his logic. He’s offering people a route to strength. Period. And he delivers. However, I won’t eat that much and my real, true health, as in staying alive is more important to me than having some cool chunks of meat on my shoulders. I know Rip would loathe that statement. Also, he’s admitted that by the late forties, a man is ‘running on fumes’ when it comes to T-levels and that’s just unavoidable in his opinion. Now, I’m not hearing that. Rip’s 5’8″ 215, I think and I’ve read that your T can go up for every BMI point you drop, so presumably vice-versa. You see those middle age powerlifters just look like walking meatballs and I wonder if it’s not only deletorious but extremely so, to carry that much weight. Most people don’t question the health issues if the added weight is muscle but it’s still added weight as far as your system is concerned. So back to my theory. Is it possible that the deep, full body breakdown from compound lifts are not advisable for people UNLESS they are going to eat a ton of protein to build back their broken down tissue. This means build back bigger muscle and gain weight. Even at my moderate diet, I’m high BMI. If I started really eating as a powerlifter, I could be up to 200 in a year and a half I bet. Ironically I dreamed of gaining weight so easily in my twenties. Anyway, if you don’t eat enough and you’re not actively building back the broken tissue, you’ll just be existing always in a catabolic state, get used to it, and get used to higher levels of cortisol which is a zero sum game with Testosterone, right? I’m not looking for an excuse to quit the compound lifts. I love them and swear by them but I will just do whatever routine is best for my health at this point. What am I missing?

  48. Goes to show that a by product of modern society is that the sexual market value of women has increased compared to men.

    The need for male provisioning has declined while the value of male sexiness has increased dramatically.

    Just look at the sex symbols of yesteryear cinema, Telly Savalis, Jurl Brynner, Earnest Borgnine, Charles Bronson, James Cagney, Michael York etc.

    Even Austin Powers’ yellow teeth poked fun at the lower bar of male attractiveness in the past, no need for six pack abs back then.

    I look at the younger set in my vicinity and the uneasiness they feel about their image, they’re constantly on a roller coaster of roid cycles, tapering drugs, anti estrogens and human growth. To compound it they feel like they need to be human jackhammers and consume a cocktail of drugs just to perform for one night stands. Not to mention the dieting, moisturising, waxing, Botox, nose jobs and secret trips abroad to get cost price surgical hair transplants.

    This used to be the domain of female behaviour.

    Just goes to show the level of the power differential today, even being a slut, obese, unhygienic, no domestic skills, single mother etc. is no barrier to male attention.

    The poster controversy is just a reminder of the prevalence of the FI.

    Rollo is right, the best way to combat it is ball the walls sexism.

  49. Johnnycomelately – “Rollo is right, the best way to combat it is ball the walls sexism.”

    I am finding that old school chauvinism + solid frame = women kissing my ass. Especially noticeable if they are younger, under 30.

  50. Reckon you are squatting/ pulling to much unless
    You are on gear
    Wear gear
    or eat more.

    Seems to me you are way over trained, which kills your T levels.

    There is a reason power lifters, strong man, throwers etc look like we do, eat like we do etc. There are a shit ton of middle weight guys who don’t look like meatballs but you have to adjust your diet etc to your training. Or if diet is more important to you, training to your diet.

    Sooooo step away from squats and deadlifts for a bit, then when you feel better, squat one week and dead lift the next. Or squat to parallel one week, squat off a high box the next, or heavy pulls and speed squats or…. well there are a lot of options that would keep a drug free, low cal dieter rolling along.

    The Smolov program has you squatting 3-4 times a week but that’s it, just squatting and it will crush most men’s soul. Westside has you squatting twice a week (sort of) but you wear a suit(straps down) and the second squat day is sets of two for speed and technique training, but you aren’t pulling often( for most dudes. Hard as hell to nail Westside down because it is the most individual lifter focused method I am aware of)

    Also maybe work on your definition of heavy weight low reps. Deads work your CNS like nothing else so 5 in a row that close to your max is pretty damn taxing to your CNS

    Another vote for old school sexism.

  51. sjfrellc – “Pumping iron with a purpose is a mindset. It is a surrogate behavior for having strength in a primitive pre-civilized gang.”

    Exactly right… And there are a few other surrogate behaviors that optimize our genetic/evolutionary/biology as well: The paleo diet is essentially a surrogate way of eating that mimics the diet of our ancestors. Heavy on animal proteins, fats and vegetables and limiting grains (which many believe we weren’t optimized to digest anyway and which only became a staple of our diet roughly 10,000 years ago with the advent of farming.) HIIT — high intensity interval training mimics chasing down prey or avoiding danger. Extremely intense bursts of aerobic energy that are limited in duration.

    If you want to truly be a monster, pumping iron to failure, strict paleo, and a couple days a week of HIIT or an equivalent will do the trick. The 3 are the closest approximation of how our pre ag ancestors lived and a good blueprint to optimize the genetics they passed down to us.

    @ Rollo – “There’s no way he went on that show and schooled Dr. Oz in his own house; the network and Lisa Oz wouldn’t allow that.”

    I’m not so sure about this Rollo. Sure, for the culturally blind he’ll come off badly. But the demographic that actually sits in front of the boob tube watching this garbage is already straight out of Idiocracy. Hopeless and unreachable. Think about it: Dr. Oz is really no different than Maury Povich or Dr. Phil or the harpies on The View. It’s sensationalism… Bread and circuses to keep the obese, underclass, masses too narcotized and stupefied to pursue or even recognize truth.

    I actually find it highly ironic and humorous that a truth-teller like Roosh would step into this Cathedral of Losers. Sure he’ll get shouted down by fat land whales and feminists. Dr. Oz will wring his hands and screw up his ersatz outrage, but the whole thing is cheap, grotesque entertainment.

    I think Roosh knows this… He’s not trying to convince the people who watch this garbage to follow the truth. Do we really think that anyone watching Dr. Oz is going to suddenly have an epiphany? That the light bulb is going to go off and that viewers will have that eureka moment? “Holy shit! Roosh is right!”

    Nah… He’s showing those of us who don’t watch this garbage just how absurd it’s all become. For those of us who have swallowed the red pill, he’s poking fun at those who haven’t.

    As you’re fond of saying Rollo… “Why do my eyes hurt? Because you’ve never used them.” Roosh is appealing to those of us who do use them.

  52. On the ratio of m/w in gyms this is something I ALWAYS am amazed at. In the last four years I have had gym memberships at Crunch in Midtown Manhattan, NY Sports Club in Harlem and now LA Fitness in Atlanta. Same thing for the most part, tons of dudes in top shape pounding iron while two or three overweight ladies are running the treadmill. The zumba class are usually pretty full of ladies in decent shape.

    The Manhattan gym seemed to have a better balance, and I assume its because there are lots affulent liberal 30 something women in the Manhattan that are likely to try in decent shape. Kudos to them, but they probably represent the pinnacle of the United States because they’re in a place where know there is massive SMV competition.

    All in all though, I do have the creeping feeling that the bar for physical fitness is just higher for men. I look around the gym like wtf, why do we have to do all this and they dont? The more men work out the more other men are under pressure to keep up, and it just spirals from there. Women expect you to be in shape and have some kind of muscles. We cant complain or shame away that fact.

  53. I’ve said this before and i’ll say it again. We simply will not win the war against feminism. It’s too powerful and widespread now to even try. It’s not pessimistic, it’s the truth. As men, we’re expected to be strong enough to just stand there and take it, which is even more tough now that we know what’s going on around us.

    Rollo is spot on with the observation that a man must perform. I also remember someone in the manosphere once saying that every girl will have a string of men chasing after her. You only have to look at the porn categories to realise that there are as much chubby chasers as there are guys looking at teen anal movies.

    Men’s sexual preference is much more varied than a female’s preference. Every man will be attracted to different looks and features.

  54. @Rollo

    I think you should monetize this blog. Obviously you do this work for the love of it; that doesn’t mean you can’t make some money, and you deserve to. 50,000 unique visitors a month is an incredible achievement.

    On The New Thin, I put a full equipped gym in my basement: bench, squat rack, safety cage, dumbbells, heavy bag, treadmill, etc, so I can’t speak to the fat women working out in public gyms. But I have a TV mounted on the wall and there’s always weight loss or fitness equipment commercials. It stuns me when I see the some of “after” pictures and they’re still fat.

    It’s like when you go to a restaurant and see the 300# land shewhale squeeze into a booth and order a dozen wings and the 2,300 calorie Smoke Stack Burger. For lunch. Disgusting.

    I have a guy that works for me that is 400#; I think his wife is 325#. He has heart trouble that is so bad the doctors won’t do a stent procedure. I told him he was going to die and suggested he start walking and track his calories with MyFitnesspal, which he did. He lost 100# in seven months and his wife started using the app. He told me she stopped using it after two days. When I asked why, he said she ate 7,500 calories the first day and 9,000 the second and didn’t want to see it anymore. The sad part, she’s cheating on him.

  55. The women are there, a lot of them just go to the women only gyms -at least when starting out. It can be quite intimidating trying to work out surrounded by men. I’ve know some who only joined a mixed gym once they’ve lost weight. Also women do more cardio classes at the gyms, rather than use the equipment. The gym i go to has way more hotter men than women. And the men appear to work much harder. But then again weight lifting will always look like more work than walking on a treadmill wont it?

  56. To be fair, the SMV curve and pregnancy are brutal for women. The model on those billboards wont have a long career, when women look at her they feel Death breathing on their necks

  57. “It stuns me when I see the some of “after” pictures and they’re still fat. ”

    Fat is the new thin.

  58. Another angle on this fat shaming stuff is that I think women assume female and male sexual attraction are identical when in fact it’s quite different in intensity and range. Women are omnivores sexually and attraction is not instantaneous whereas for men we are much more focused on what we “like” and can get aroused in seconds by a woman, and don’t really vary much in what we like.

    Women’s sexuality is much more plastic and I think that they believe men could be turned on by fatties because of this at some basic level. This is yet another consequence of the equalism Rollo so often talks about on this thread. I’ve become really tuned into the equalism that is baked into so many of women’s views about male sexuality, everywhere.

    Consider homosexuality. It’s actually quite different in from how it is for women. Men rarely change orientations and bisexuality is quite different in men (most bisexual men are “tops” not truly bisexual) whereas many women dabble with other women or even declare themselves lesbians and then go on to men. For men it’s much less plastic and the sexual orientation of young children can be observed as young as 3 years old. That’s in part why women except ideas about the social construction of gender and sexual orientation much more readily than men do – their sexual appetites and behaviors are much more readily influenced by external drivers than men’s.

    @M. Simon – Be careful using statistics to quantify human sex drives – engineers like to reduce things to mechanics but we have almost no axioms in social science, so approaching the field with the same mindset is problematic.

  59. I can’t believe nobody has brought up Planet Fatness yet. I went in there for a tour and got the bums rush because I’m a 6’1″ guy who looks like he likes to lift heavy. This is the place that shames you if you lift heavy or make any noise in the gym. The daily show gave them a good pilloring a while back. While there, I noticed a female “trainer” wearing a yellow shirt who definately outweighed me, even as short as she was. I’ve asked female friends why they like going there and they all have reasons like the free tanning beds, etc… None of it had anything to do with fitness. The place is tailored to the exact demographic Rollo is talking about. They get to say they go to the gym. Eat free pizza and bagels. Get a tan and stay as huge as they like. All I can say is, “Why didn’t I think of that?”

  60. correction: ” It’s actually quite different in from how it is for women.” – should be “in men from how…”

    Also. anyone curious about this topic, check out Michael J. Bailey, a leading sexual researcher who as almost lynched by radfems and the lgbt brigade but managed to survive. Here’a link to talk by him https://youtu.be/n4WSxZmxH-k He’s also written an amazing book on transgenderism (that got him in so much trouble), The Man Who Would Be Queen. http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf

    He’s a serious and mild mannered academic with no axe to grind.

    @Jafyk – Make sure you right click to open my links, I don’t want to frustrate you any further…

  61. I actually got kicked out of Planet Fatness. The gym used to be a Worlds Gym until they went belly up and sold to PF. Then the rules were no grunting, free weights didn’t go above 40lbs, and no tank tops for men.

    That’s what got me. All I wear is tanks and they warned me like 4 times. This was back before I knew what PF was about, so I told em to fuck themselves and promptly went 2 blocks away and joined the newly opened Golds who everyone knew would bury PF.

  62. I was at the gym yesterday and a I saw a new fitness staff member who was at least 50 lbs overweight, lol. He may have been a powerlifter, but even for that he was fat. I just did a doubletake when I saw him, I was like what the fuck?

    My trainer has entered the air force so I’m working out on my own now which I like better. In terms of men/women, I’m at a YMCA so it’s a different demo than your average gym, but I like the basketball court, the steam room, whirlpool and the rock climbing wall. As an aside, after a heavy lift I like nothing better than shooting hoops for 10-15 minutes or so, anyone else find that to be the case?

    In term of women vs. men, there are more men than women but the average woman is hotter than the average man. The free weights section is adequate but not oriented towards powerlifters, so I don’t think it draws well from that set. But it’s good enough for me.

  63. This double-standard gets played out all the time, and the funniest/saddest thing is how openly hypocritical they are:

    I know our host likes to stay out of politics, but I have to point out that this feminist denial of human nature to further their agenda is the same thing that happens when Leftists push Communist ideas. The track record for it is horrible, it goes against human nature, but the still keep promoting it.

    They don’t care about facts or reality, they care about the fantasy they are weaving for themselves; please don’t be mean and screw it up for them.

    The reason they get away with it is that they are not taken to task for it, and sometimes they simply means pointing out their bullshit.

    Let’s take the fat-shaming/body acceptance paradigm.

    The Left pushes the idea that shaming somebody for their ‘body type’ is wrong, discriminatory, right? Accept people as they are, particularly women.

    But then, they turn around and push healthy eating and exercise for kids, complaining that they are out of shape and overweight, and that is wrong and harmful and should be changed.

    They THEN turn around and bemoan eating disorders, particularly among young girls, who feel shamed into maintaining a certain body image.

    WTF?

    Does no one see the completely conflicting messages here? All of which are pushed using millions of tax-payer dollars.

    It’s madness.

    “I’ve said this before and i’ll say it again. We simply will not win the war against feminism. It’s too powerful and widespread now to even try. It’s not pessimistic, it’s the truth.”

    Sorry, completely wrong. Not that we can’t lose, but the idea that it is inevitable is ridiculous. The only thing holding together the absurdity of thought which is feminism (and it’s ilk) is political correctness with the assistance of the state. Totalitarian regimes have been overthrown throughout history; you think we can’t deal with this?

    All it takes is refusing to play the game. That can be done passively (men not marrying, employing Game, covering your ass with women) and aggressively (suing colleges that persecute men for example).

    Now, if one wants to insure losing, throwing up one’s hands and saying, “All is Lost!” is a really good way to make that happen.

  64. There are two types of girls: (1) The ones clinging to the Imperative, so they don’t go to gyms, and (2) The ones who realise the enormous SMP advantage that is having a fit body among a world of fatties.

    Meanwhile, every guy knows that you have to, or at least SHOULD, have a fit body, whatever what for. That is why I think you perceive more guys than girls hitting the gym

  65. @Onder – You are right in a sense that radfems and social justice warriors overtook the levers of political and social power in the West over the past 50 years and what we are witnessing now in terms of policy is them merely consolidating their gains. We have already lost the academy, the arts and the news media – and we will not get them “back”.

    But men are far from helpless. I suggest any man who is as overwhelmed by this as you seem to be read a little Nietzsche. He predicted how our politics and public intellectual discourse would descend into a hash of nonsense once women tried to masculinize themselves and graps the reigns of power. He was 100% correct – and I hated Nietzsche for years. But he nailed women and predicted this horrific state of affairs.

    The real truth is this;

    1. Women have been hypnotized in large part by the radical egalitarian and collecttivist ideas of the left. Most social justice warriors (most of whom are women) don’t even know they are effectively Fabian socialists and are currently bordering on actual Fascism. They have been brainwashed and have internalized and personally and emotionally invested themselves in this ideology. It’s so convenient for women, they get this ideology that makes them victims, morally better than the rest of us and to be thought of as superior for being women in the first place – who wouldn’t give that up?

    2. We stay away from politics here for the most part, but all of this crap is weaponized by leftist politics – Progressivism, Socialism, Marxism, Social Justice theory a la Rawls. Women never get this much political power without these ideologies. Classical liberalism simply would never permit them to use the power of the state to enforce the FI. Without the coercive power of the state, they would have to negotiate with me. But now they don’t.

    3. So, now what? Well it’s obvious and simple, but terrifying to actually consider and talk about. The only thing that will can work is force. Revolution. Politics will not work it. If you think we can vote our way out of this, you don’t know how bad it is. And women are asking for it by rejecting reason and the rule of law and any sense of equity, respect or fairness. They are running wild, like children with the keys to a toy store, and like children, sometimes you just need to grab them, stop them and stuff them in their rooms until they learn the fucking lesson.

    I’m ready, have been for a while. I’m just waiting for the spark. And women don’t have a chance if men decide to unify and use force – they count on us not using it, on being “nice guys” and “good men” who neuter and defang themselves.

    No more. Consider me fully fanged and self-respecting. And I would rise up in a heartbeat and take all the political rights away from women. Last, for you ladies here who find that horrifying, just consider the following:

    1. Without women voting, socialism never gets a chance in this country. And of you don’t realize that medicare, SS, medicaid and the other 90+ social programs run by the feds are socialism, you just don’t know what socialism is. The term was invented before Marx and I’m using it in a Benthamesque or Millisian way. But none of this radical collectivism/egalitariansim (Rollo identifes this as “equalism” has a chance here without women supporting it.

    2. Women’s economic empowerment correlates perfectly with the rise of consumerism and the explosion of personal indebtedness. Hey ladies, you can’t brag about controlling 80% of household spending (all marketers know that women buy all the crap) and not take responsibility for the consequences.

    3. Economic policies – Economics is a field in which women are largely absent and most are economic morons. See Bryan Caplan’s GMU work on gender differences in economic understanding. The average adult women has the economic comprehension and literacy of a male child. And female understanding of economics gets worse as they achieve higher degrees of education. The left has dumbed it all down for them, and gives them easy memes like “income inequality” and “the 1%”. So of course, they vote for politicians with idiotic economic ideas that can never work. Ladies, it’s not too strong a statement to say that your economic and political empowerment is destroying our economy.

    But we can’t talk about this, can we?

    @SunWukong – Psyched about the connection you are doing, how can I get involved?

  66. Re: Daily Show – Do you all see the double standard even in the exposure of this? It’s spun as funny, and kooky – when in fact if the roles were reversed women would lose their minds. I have a perfect analogy.

    I began golfing just before women started to overtake and feminize golf courses, about 22 years ago. One of the things I loved about it was how innately male the space was. Particularly on the less fancy, public courses. We would smoke cigars, guys would get drunk and by the back 9, pissing on the side of the course was common. It also could get viciously competitive with lots of foul language and rough play. I recall chasing a friend down the fairway in the cart screaming, “Git some, git some” one day. I could really let loose on the course and my guy friends did the same. You could say we were very unselfconscious in the way only men can be when they are not around women.

    Yet there were strict traditions on certain things like keeping up a good pace. In the old days, if you were playing to slow, a guy behind you might hit up into you so you would get the message. You might also curse at him or whatever, but it was anything but polite. Try doing that to a woman? She’ll get a starter to come kick you off the course. And meantime she’s hitting the ball 150 off the tee and I’m not supposed to laugh either. Most of these women suck at golf too, but they behave totally different about it. When I was learning, I was told that if I was going to slow because of bad shots to just pick up my ball and keep up the pace. Try telling a woman to do that, she responds back, “That’s not fair, I should get my turn”.

    Women are everywhere waddling their fat asses around golf courses today, and it’s effectively ruined most as a male space. Can you imagine women’s reactions if men wanted to build men’s only golf courses and banned women who couldn’t play off at least the blue tees? Because men thought they were not enjoyable to share a golf course with?

    Force is the only solution. Just look at how entitled the blonde in the Daily Show interview is – she calls them lunks and animals and knows she sounds fascistic. She just doesn’t care because there are no consequences for her doing so. Yet…

  67. It’s very interesting that Protein World not only didn’t apologize, but straight up said they weren’t going to. Obviously, the company knows that pro-fatties are not their customers.

  68. Female fat acceptance is ultimately self-defeating, that’s why I care so little about anyone who takes it seriously. The converse would be groups of men insisting that their poor-shape, no-career, no-job, no assets, and poor hygiene selves should be accepted and not shamed by anyone for their “life choices”.

    Even if you accept that the large group of losers has the ear of the public, they are to be pitied because they’re simply justifying self-destruction. They literally just do not matter. Caring about what they think is like caring what someone who committed suicide was thinking. It might make you feel better about yourself and give closure, but the person self-destructed already so it cannot help them. Fatties who try to justify their ill health are in fact choosing to die early and diseased. If they truly don’t want to be convinced of their folly, then I say let them be ignored in peace.

    Roosh was giving these fatties too much attention by even appearing on Oz. “Fat Shaming Week” is actually the wrong approach, because it gives fatties attention and emotion, two things that they desperately want. What you really want is a “Fattie ignoring week”… but that just doesn’t work and besides that the sad reality for landwhales is that is every day for them. Their anti-fat-shaming rhetoric is literally just a public form of emotional self-pleasuring, a high-sugar substitute for the healthy male attention they would ordinarily be getting.

  69. RE: Daily Show: Planet Fitness

    How about the Verizon Commercial before the Daily show clip (I know I couldv’e skipped it but Verizon is a customer of mine). Intelligent woman gets it right, moron guy doesn’t. Girl: “How’d that work out for you?” Guy: “Not so well, do I get a do over?”

    It’s ubiquitous.

  70. @Signor Farfalla
    April 28th, 2015 at 2:42 am

    “Anyway, if you don’t eat enough and you’re not actively building back the broken tissue, you’ll just be existing always in a catabolic state, get used to it, and get used to higher levels of cortisol which is a zero sum game with Testosterone, right? I’m not looking for an excuse to quit the compound lifts. I love them and swear by them but I will just do whatever routine is best for my health at this point. What am I missing?”

    I would cosign what Sfc ton said. I know a thing or two about medicine. I’m not expert on your question, haven’t researched lifting that much.

    High cortisol is probably the key factor. It is not a zero sum game. No one said you can’t have T and low constant cortisol levels. After all, that is what a perfect Alpha would have.

    What do you have against protein supplements? Or zinc or other testoterone boosters. Like Ton said less working out maximize intensity. Power lift and not body building is your goal, right. Reduce stress outside the gym, at work and in your private and social life. Eliminate your vices. Don’t eat junk, eat quality.

    If I were you I would do cardio work to fill in time at the gym for the less lifting you should do.

    Once again, low stress cortisol, high T.
    What about a diet and minimal supplements?

    I’m not so sure this comments section is a great place to discuss this topic because it is a bit narrow and might be distracting. RooshV forum might be a good place to ask bodybuilding, powerlifting, weightlifting questions.

  71. Funny but no wonder Dr. Oz was pissed. Obviously Roosh knew what was in store and has a different endgame in mind.

    My favorite quote from Dr. Oz is a Pussy:

    “This woman has a vice grip around Dr. Oz’s balls, embarrassing him in a national publication, and he takes it like the pussy that he is. Dr. Oz is a disgrace to men everywhere. As long as his behavior is seen as “normal,” more men will be pressured to follow in his mangina footsteps.”

  72. The Roosh article on how he was backstabbed makes it easy for us to understand how he was ambushed. The women producers gamed him by pandering to him “Oh, your ideas don’t seem so awful like I thought they were going to be” Oh Really.

    Dr. Oz totally fakes (and makes up shit) medical advice for ratings.

  73. Rollo: “Actually he did pretty well in this exchange”

    I thought he did amazingly well. A lot better than Oz, actually.

    Oz’s body language was sheepish, and he crossed his legs like a woman…that came across as ungenuine and ‘guarded’.

    Was that the entire interview? I couldn’t find the rest of it.

  74. Interesting article. Well written and gives a good understanding of basic evolutionary biology. I’ve read 4 of these articles looking to point my brother in law in this direction to better understand his dating market.

    A future consolidation of these principles (evolutionary biology) would do your readers well! Good start.

    -Jamon

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