In the almost 4 years I’ve had The Rational Male up and running I have neither monetized nor commercialized the blog. I began with the explicit intent of making everything I do accessible and in the past year and a half since the first book published I’ve turned down at least seven different (lucrative) requests to put ads or promos on the blog.
I’m happy to say I’ll still never monetize this blog, but if I were to offer ad space my first spot would be reserved for Protein World. I can’t vouch for the quality of their products beyond what I know in general of protein supplements from years of bodybuilding, but that’s not the point. The point is that these guys had the balls not only to stick to their guns, but to double down when social justice warriors and body fat acceptance “activists” took it upon themselves to systematically vandalize their most recent ad campaign.
@lawrencedarcy We won’t apologise to the irrational extremists who are causing criminal damage to our adverts 😜😘💪
— Protein World (@ProteinWorld) April 27, 2015
I’ve made my living in brand development for over 20 years now, these guys deserve some respect. Granted, at this point they have no option but to go on offense, but in today’s fem-centric social order this is an anomaly.
I’m drawing attention to this selective vandalism to illustrate a larger point; in a feminine-primary, feminine-dominant social order any reminder of how that order might be challenged (especially on a visceral level) must be met with a selectively sexist countermeasure.
You see, what Protein World’s campaign does is remind less than physically ideal women that despite all social efforts to convince them otherwise, men still evaluate a woman’s sexual market value based on her physical appeal. No amount ‘personal acceptance’ or clinging to internal worth and validation will change the sexual response men evolved to optimize over a hundred thousand years.
I covered this briefly when I explained the misconceptions of Robin Korth in Separating Values:
One of the major problems women have, and more than even some Red Pill men have, is the conflation of sexual market value with their intrinsic personal value as a human being.
It needs to be emphasized that while personal value is influential in sexual market value, SMV is distinct from your value as a human being. I’m stressing this because, in the age Disney Princess empowerment, this conflation of the two has become a go-to social convention; and not just for women.
What Korth suffers from is presuming her personal value is her sexual market value.
It’s disruptive to her self-perceptions and ego-investments when that presumption is challenged by a man who doesn’t want to fuck her for reasons based on the intrinsic value she believes she’s entitled to by virtue of maturity and imaginings of self-sufficiency. Just as women aren’t aroused by men’s own self-concepts of virtuousness and aspirations of higher purpose, men aren’t aroused by whatever ephemeral self-perceptions a woman may have.
Feminist ‘equalism’ is always shocked that evolved human biology and its feral predispositions won’t cooperate with it, but such is the frustration with any social order or ideology which fails to account for the realities of human being’s natural states and biological imperatives. There is a conceived, higher-order expectation that, through freewill, conviction or some other learned, reasoned means, people will rise above the influence of their base nature and comply with what they believe will make for an idealized existence.
What egalitarian equalisim, struggles against is basic human instinct, nature and impulse.
This refusal of understanding base motivations is at the heart of these “activists” outrage. Feminized egalitarian equalism fosters the idea that men and women are essentially equal beings with different genitalia and a co-equal capacity for rational agency. Under those auspices men and women should be able to bypass their inherent, evolved, sexual prompts and make the conscious rational effort to focus their arousal and attraction on the more intrinsic personal worth of the opposite sex.
In the egalitarian plan Hypergamy should be as self-consciously sublimated for women as men’s should be for repressing any expression of being sexually aroused by a woman for anything other than her intrinsic personal worth. Any man with a baseline awareness of female behavior knows how effective this plan is.
But that’s not to stop women from simultaneously being offended by visceral expressions of men’s sexual ideals while holding a double standard for their own physically ideal men.
You see Protein World applies an equal standard across their ad campaigns, and the message, when paired like so, is one of encouraging a physical ideal for both sexes. To my knowledge there was no initial outrage over the male version of the ad on the right. There was no outcry or messages scrawled on these ads stating “Contrary to popular opinion, men’s bodies do not need to be changed for the beach or anywhere else.”
It’s easy to get caught up in the indignation of yet one more female double standard, so lets back up for a moment and examine why this is.
The most common refrain you’ll hear from Blue Pill trained men and less than physically ideal women is that men have a predilection to sexually objectify women, to see them as objects rather than their esoteric notion of “human beings”. What they fail to understand is that this objectification is exactly what the male brain evolved for.
Objectification Your Honor
In our tribal beginnings men’s sexual response, his very reproductive survival, depended on his capacity for sexual immediacy. While women may require foreplay and pre-coital stimulation, men had to be ready to fuck and go at a moment’s notice. Survival, mate poaching, even the uncertainty of women’s ovulatory/estrus phase of her menstrual cycle, all these factors and more predicated a need for instant sexual reflexiveness for men.
That reflexiveness required a capacity for a man to see a woman, evaluate her sexual/fertility value to him (the boner test) and take action accordingly. About two years ago on another forum, I’d gotten involved in a discussion regarding this sexual evaluation reflex and how women were literally dumbfounded that men would “size up” a woman sexually within the space of a few short seconds. Even men who were only peripherally aware of women outside of their visual focus would make SMV assessments of those women.
In order for this assessment to take place the mental construct of perceiving women as objects was a necessary evolutionary step. The simple truth is that it’s part of men’s neurological firmware to see women’s bodies as objects. It’s a well studied fact that when men see an arousing woman’s semi-nude body it triggers the same area of our brains associated with tool use. Sexual objectification is a survival feature for men, not a bug.
On a limbic level women understand this aspect of male nature. In a very visceral way women know that men put a primary value on their bodies and sexual availability. Ads like this only remind women of, and highlight the fact, that despite all of its concentrated social effort the Feminine Imperative simply cannot undo thousands of years of men evolving that physical objectification – and successfully reproducing as a result of it.
In a social order that follows the dictates of female sexual strategy it’s unsurprising that women would seek to eliminate that aspect of the male sexual response. Only by controlling that response can women completely enforce Hypergamy as the predominant socio-sexual strategy. These ads offend that desire for control. They remind a woman that her Hypergamous sexual selectivity is (at least presumptively) still mitigated by men being aroused by their physicality, objectifying them and desiring them for reproduction.
Women’s innate solipsism prevents them from ever truly attaining the egalitarian equalist fantasy they ride in order to consolidate that control. Women’s hindbrains want a better-than deal with regards to Hypergamy. Hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level, it wants, it expects a better than deserved exchange for its investment with a man, and it desperately wants assurances that its getting it.
Thus, on a Hypergamous social scale we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.
In 2011 I wrote Women’s Physical Standards and I think it bears quoting here:
This may come as a shock to the “men have impossibly high beauty standards” gnashing of feminist teeth, but it is in fact women who have a much higher standard for an idealized male physique. For all the endless kvetching from women about men wanting “living barbie dolls”, it’s men who’ve historically displayed much broader interests in female body habitus than women ever have.
You see, men will very readily cater their physical sexual “preferences” in accordance with what has proven sexually successful for them in past experiences. In other words, men tend to return to the same watering hole they found to be plentiful in the past. These preferences of convenience manifest themselves as ‘fetishes’ for men. And you don’t even need all that extensive research to prove this. All one need do is search the vast variety of porn available catering to the physical attributes that men will fetishize. Big boobs, small boobs, big ass, small ass, every hair color of the rainbow, shaved snatch, hairy snatch, teen girls to MILFs and older, tan, pale, ultra-thin to the ubiquitous BBWs (Big Beautiful women). Ladies, name the physical attribute(s), and there’s a fan-group just waiting to bang you. Rule 34 was never more provable than in men’s willingness to fuck damn near any physical demographic of women – just ask the female midgets catering to that fetish of porn.
On the other hand, from a purely physical perspective, it’s women’s idealized masculine form that hasn’t changed in millennia. While there may have been a rubenesque period when men loved the fatties of the 1600′s, no such era ever existed for women’s physical preferences. The classic broad chest, wide shoulders, six-pack abs and squared jaws of greco-roman athleticism are still the idealized male form that has graced EVERY romance novel cover in existence. I’m still waiting for someone to post me a link for a dating site that caters exclusively to women’s fetish of BBMs – average to good looking, fit women specifically looking overweight men. Executive Introductions caters to women seeking affluent, influential men, but women just looking for overweight men, that site doesn’t exist.
On more than a few occasions I’ve made the connection that what we see in a feminine-primary societal order is really a reflection of the female sexual strategy writ large. When we see a culture of obesity, a culture of body fat acceptance and a culture that presumes a natural evolved order of innate differences between the sexes should be trumped by self-impressions of female personal worth, we’re viewing a society beholden to the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamy.
A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.
It’s been brought to my attention that Roosh will be appearing on the Dr. Oz show tomorrow.
Get ready, popcorn is coming http://t.co/vX4i9t5hHdpic.twitter.com/xvMlWLs0nb
— Roosh (@rooshv) April 27, 2015
I’ll admit I’m a bit apprehensive of this “interview” as it smacks of red meat for Dr. Oz’s largely overweight viewing demographic (not to mention his obese wife). That said, this interview came at a good time since it should give readers a first hand look at exactly the rationales and social conventions I illustrated in today’s post. Keep this material fresh in your mind while you watch.
Wow. Spot on. Of course no additional graffiti on male poster because were not afraid of hard work (not mentioning that in order to lose weight girls just need to stop overeating, because they don’t need to ‘gain muscle’ lol)
As a man who is just over 5’7″ tall I have no sympathy for the women in this argument. It is socially acceptable for women to openly disparage short men.
Furthermore I know how hard it is to have 10% body fat (I’m at around 12%). I weigh myself every morning and I go to bed hungry 50% of the time. The woman in the Beach Body ad should be commended for her hard work and dedication. Its not easy being thin in a world filled with sugary, processed foods.
[…] Obesity Culture […]
“It’s been brought to my attention that Roosh will be appearing on the Dr. Oz show tomorrow.”
They’re both Turks. Second generation immigrant family connections. Everyone knows someone who has a connection with someone famous or successful in the same ethno-demographic. Strings were pulled, Jack Donovan tribal style. Good for him.
Tariq Nasheed says thirsty n*ggas were the first to mainstream “fat acceptance” with their “thick gal” rhetoric. In the 80s it meant a fit girl with a phat booty. Women ran with it and before you knew it obese women were “thick”. He blames da menz.
Feminists dig themselves into a ditch to say “Fuck you Society!” and declare that ditch Mt. Everest, and then they want the attention and validation that the people who *actually* HAVE climbed Mt. Everest receive.
All without doing absolutely nothing to deserve it.
Rollo, please please can you set up your site so that the links open in a new window of their own. It drives me crazy that every time I have to follow a link and close the link afterwards I exit the blog instead or have to click back. Thank you. You’re still my hero from the days of Sosuave. Not sure if you remember. Any way, keep up the good work.
so far, I think the ads with the men weren’t up in their subways (tubes as they’re called there) So the ads with the woman is a poster that someone has access to vandalize. However, it’s still true and your points remain valid that there hasn’t been, nor is there any at the present, any outrage over the ads with the men. Roosh provides an easier source for indignation craving talk shows. But I’m at least glad he is on this show. Paired with Christine Hoff Sommers, Claire Lemon, it’s a sign that more opportunities are coming up to counter… Read more »
Jafyk- can’t you just right click and choose “open in new window” or “open in new tab”?
They counter fat-shaming with desire-shaming. Nobody calls it out.
Uh… middle click with your wheel or right click and open in new tab/window? Every modern browser supports the features. Use ’em.
Yale grad, didn’t happen in the 80’s. Thick girl didn’t look like what is attempted to pass as thick now. But he’s right in thirsty men playing a part in it.
You can just browse through some old videos and see. The cheaper digital sensor, the internet, also played a role in it.
Just a quick note on the brand management. If you look at the various people and brands SJWs have attacked in recent years it is the companies which told them to pound sand that have thrived. The last thing you want to do is apologize – as soon as they see weakness they’ll be on you like a pack of hyenas instead of looking for an easier target.
@Robert Marks Third wave feminism was all about lowering the bar so that fat, ugly chicks could finally have a shot at reproducing under the guise of “equal rights”. Funny how none of that included giving short, unemployed guys a chance to reproduce as well. Quite the opposite: every guy short of an HG8 was de facto shut out of the market as all the fat/ugly girls are now convinced they deserve Brad Pitt too because they’re “such a great person”. If there’s one thing men and women both need to learn in this world: nobody gives a shit who… Read more »
“A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.”
How does this help the top 1% of women? What incentive do they have to ensure this occurs?
What incentive do they have to ensure this occurs?
Maybe these women have a point.. “Beach bodies” upsets them because, as they write, you don’t need that body to go to a beach. I think Protein World was being to politically correct when they created that ad. They should have simply said the truth and included texts such as “Increase your sexual market value” and “Attract higher quality men” and “Look more attractive to most men”. Why beat around the bush as if you have to be skinny to go to the beach. We all know thats not true. But telling women to visit Protein World in order to… Read more »
Vivian James approves.
To the guys who responded to me, lol. I guess we all learn something new. Most times I just click links and it opens up in a new window. I’m just saying it’s user friendlier that way. Most people just left click links to open them, no? Anyway, thanks for your responses.
Today’s episode of Dr oz featured monique davis and her sharing her story of her 100 lbs weight loss.
So todays show, weight loss praise. Tomorrow’s show, roosh v is a bully for saying women should be thin.
You’re right, it is their game
@ Water Cannon Boy
If a woman is really unhappy with her looks, it’s true expression is her fear is that she can’t do any better than you. Think about that the next time you feel like offering some reassuring words.
I was unaware that Roosh was a notorious fat shamer who bullied women all over the world. I thought he was a guy that wanted to fuck attractive women all over the world because US women are poor examples of the feminine form and then share that experience for a nominal price for men to read. Really, Roosh a notorius fat shamer? Do any men know this? I suppose women are going to be lectured to that Roosh is a fat shamer tomorrow and they will beleive it based on the principles in the above essay. By a medical scammer… Read more »
@sjfrellc, I’m going to make a prediction here and say that by the end of the show Roosh will (as planned) be shamed by Dr. Oz. And the obese women in the audience (i.e. all of them because the producer Lisa Oz stacked the audience), will leave with the good feelz thinking they took him down a peg and vindicated their self images.
Roosh will likely pocket some money in the 5 digit range.
Oz is right. Fat shaming as a behavior modification technique doesn’t have much merit. That being said, obese women are making ridiculous assertions about their “inherent beauty.” Few men should date a woman that weighs more than him*.
However Roosh performs in the interview, he will lose. Roosh is on the show to be pilloried and nothing more. But his brand and ROK will benefit tremendously from this exposure. Troll game recognized :).
The only time a man should date heavier women…
Reblogged this on ciacorps and commented:
So very true. Today’s Western women are all now obsessed with men being at least 6’3″ and fit, and if they do not have those very narrow parameters, men are openly humiliated with the most vicious vitriol ever spoken. Yet these very same women who scourge men for being “too short” or “too fat” become enraged if men suggest that they try to take care of their appearance more. The double standards are so glaring.
Roosh on Oz.
Imma cream my pants.
@sjfrellc Good luck with Law #5 RooshV. I’m gonna have to go with Tom on this: But his brand and ROK will benefit tremendously from this exposure. Troll game recognized Most of the demographic of that show aren’t buying Roosh’s books, but now they will because they want to be offended. They want to feel shocked and disgusted. It’s like the moment in Private Parts where they discussed Howard Stern’s listeners: Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes. The average Howard Stern fan listens for – are you ready for this? – an hour and twenty minutes. Pig… Read more »
“Roosh will likely pocket some money in the 5 digit range.” Good observation. Makes me feel better he will get a meal ticket out of an intellectual hack job by OZ (pay no attention to that man beyond the green curtain). I wish Roosh the best. It is a big stage, for sure. The promo statement is unfortunate. Roosh is a big boy and even if they stack the deck against him, he’s resourceful in his thoughts. The worst day in the Manosphere is still better for us men than the best day in the Femosphere for women. Roosh knows… Read more »
OK, I got a question; As most of you know I’ve been a gym rat since high school, my younger brother was an amateur circuit competitor in the mid 90s and we’ve been in and out of various gyms for almost 30 years. In that time I’ve noticed that the demographic of gym goers has shifted. When I was in Florida I noticed that membership was about 70% men, 30% women. Of the men there I’d say the majority of them were in significantly better shape than the women. Of the women in my FL gym maybe 3-4 stood out… Read more »
I haven’t been a gym rat since college, seemed like a tremendous waste to pay gym fees when running and lifting at home/neighborhood are so easy in the sun belt.
I’m Sure Roosh will suffer significant jeering from OZ’s crowd. But honestly…LOL at the fatties who can’t take the truth.
My concern with Roosh is that his publicity with Dr. Oz will throw the rest of the manosphere under the bus. I hope this isn’t the hill Roosh wants to die on. I still have a lot of respect for the guy, but I can’t imagine he went on Dr. Oz to be pilloried without a good payoff. There’s no way he went on that show and schooled Dr. Oz in his own house; the network and Lisa Oz wouldn’t allow that. I’ll withhold judgement until after the show, but if that trailer is any precursor, they got the indignation… Read more »
If I were to guess at Roosh’s thinking on this, I would say he truly believes that western society is doomed. In that line of thought, why not profit from exposure while you can?
“My point is that it seems like there’s a shift towards more men getting in better shape than women in the gyms these days.
Do any of you notice this trend?”
Gym rat/fit bro boldly declares, “Imma just gonna go for the biggest girl in the bar!”
And we think fat shaming will ever work in this country? Fatties are being pedestalized here!
Hat tip to Rollo, Roosh and Roissy. Solid three legs of the pillar of the manosphere. Making a difference one gang of men at a time, whether in real life or in a virtual world. Paging Glenn…..Five years ago, I took the initiative of meeting up with virtual internet guys on a Michigan Sportsman’s Forum for deer habitat. Those efforts in having a real world gang of 4-5 guys with a larger acquaintance of 15 guys with a like minded purpose with zero feminine influence has changed my life. My life was fine before that, but a gang of men… Read more »
Cannot comment on your gym observation as the kind of gyms I go to are 90% men there to get strong and not flop around like fairies I will say my observation is I see more women on the ends of the spectrum then in the middle. Extremely fit and fine or blobs but I understand that could be heavily skewed. I am seeing more girls in the kinds of gyms I train in and they are there with serious intentions regarding strength training; pulling sleds, pushing prowlers, learning how to squat correctly, doing pull ups…. we use to get… Read more »
“My concern with Roosh is that his publicity with Dr. Oz will throw the rest of the manosphere under the bus.” The manosphere is a bottoms up movement. If the top wants to suppress it it has to quash the motivations of those that see the Manosphere as a resource. It will still grow from the bottom up. We men need this shit. The value for men cannot be suppressed. The three R’s are not mysogynists. I’m not a mysogynist. I love my wife (don’t tell her that), think she is beautiful and want to do things that will benefit… Read more »
Any publicity is not always good publicity.
While it may be bad for the ‘sphere at large, I’ll bet it get sales for him. I can’t be angry if that’s how he plays it.
First, Rollo, outstanding observation about the marketing. I was buzzing RoK today over the horrible Firestone ad (see the site for details) getting into the nuances of gender-based marketing, specifically brand loyalty, gender-based purchasing decisions (men buy the majority of tires) and how to actually affect change in the corporate environment – and it ain’t about the hashtags. I made a point there about Marketing 101 being Don’t Insult The Customer, and pointed out how the Firestone ad basically denigrated masculine pursuits in favor of pure female vindictiveness, etc. etc., but the ad and bruhaha sparked an office debate about… Read more »
I work out at home so i can’t comment on the gym male/female ratio. My gf does go to the gym, but she zones out listening to her music and barely pays attention unless she sees a woman built like a man – then sends me a photo for my amusement. I must say, i’m just sitting back eating my low fat popcorn watching this shit blow up. My hats off to Protein World for realizing cowing to people who would never use their product wasn’t going to produce net sales. Chaotic press is better than no press and their… Read more »
Why not pose a question like: “Should I be obligated to be sexually attracted to fat women any more than women should be obligated to be sexually attracted to me?” “What’s wrong with finding someone sexually unattractive?” These are very tough questions. I feel a pang in my chest even writing that out because I know what it feels like to be rejected. But it’s the truth. We don’t want to look at it, but it’s the truth. We’re hard-wired to desire physical ideals. It’s just the way it is. Although there is a very good case, as Rollo’s written… Read more »
As far as gym experience, I get no insights into demographics. I’m in there and out of there. I have been back to the gym for the last 9 months and stick to an intense workout. Limit my time between sets to 1 min. do reps that work to fatigue. Lots of the gym members are lolligagging like someone is spending time there because someone is paying them by the hour. The gym is a resource that I go to to pump iron and powerlift to increase testosterone ( and that happened to me I doubled my low levels into… Read more »
Although perhaps I’m being too pessimistic. For all the jeering and derision, there’s going to have to be some people who think “Well hey, he might be coming off like an asshole, but you know, I get what he’s saying.” And so the seed is planted. We’ll see how it turns out. The women not being able to handle rejection thing gets me though. All I can think of is Mike Tyson going on that rant: “YOU WOULDN’T LAST TWO MINUTES IN MY WORLD, BITCH! YOU WHITE PUSSY!” I think a little while after that he said “I’ll fuck you… Read more »
My husband and I used to go the gym together everyday… and we always saw more men than women. And there were only two women that looked “beach body ready.” Whereas there were a lot more men who were ripped and took their physique seriously. Now we just work out at home… but Ian Ironwood is right about this being more for the purpose of attacking the women who adhere to looking like this, or that even try to. My own close close friend that I’ve known for 25 years of my 28 (!!) tried to slim-shame me for losing… Read more »
Pretty much sums up my reaction to landwhales that don’t like being discriminated against.
I understand being upset about discrimination on the basis of things that weren’t a choice like race or eye color or whatever. But fat? You can do something about that, and you knew ahead of time how men would react to your Stay Puft Marshmallow Man impression. You only have yourself to blame for your poor choices.
And at this point I’m shooting for Wednesday night for a test of the voice server with the group, with an attempt to record things coming the weekend after this one. Sorry to all who’ve expressed interest for the delays. Slow deployment from the provider was unexpected, and I want to have time to smooth the kinks out before we try to have some productive discussions.
@Sun, let me know when you’re ready and I’ll announce in a post.
“If a fat woman gets turned down by a guy because she’s fat, then it’s “U GO GRL! SHOW THAT ASSHOLE WHAT A REAL WOMAN IS!” Us men have to deal with rejection on a regular basis. Women get a tiny fraction of a taste of our world and they can’t handle it for even two minutes — so much so that they have to flip the script 180 degrees into something positive without hesitation. ” This. I wonder if, as an experiment, short, really unattractive guys with uneven faces or acne started a #wewant2datefatgirlz movement, these women would accept… Read more »
That’s incredibly generous of you. I’ll be sure to keep you posted.
There is a an extreme fetish culture among females. It amounts to about one percent of them. Among males it is about 3%. From this and with some knowledge of statistics you can determine the difference in sex drive between men and women. It is about 1/2 standard deviation. Not a lot. What this means though is that among high drive men there is a LOT of competition. “I’m doing 9s and you are only doing 7s.” Or “I got a fetish girl and you are stuck with a vanilla.” Or “my girl LIKES threesomes and you are lucky if… Read more »
April 27th, 2015 at 10:52 pm
Reminds me of a Chicago radio station I worked at (early 60s) which didn’t use a compressor or limiter. One announcer liked to run his announcements in the +3 range frequently pegging the meter. The engineers (me among them) used to like telling him that, “if you go below 3 you are undermodulating.” It was a standing joke.
That looks like a nice high quality meter. Probably a Sure. Jewel bearings.
“There’s no way he went on that show and schooled Dr. Oz in his own house; the network and Lisa Oz wouldn’t allow that.”
You can’t fight the editing room. In the broadcast cut Roosh will come off as they have predetermined he will come off.
That looks like a nice high quality meter.
I wouldn’t really know. It rarely leaves the bottom enough for me to tell.
@Rollo I lift at a Golds turned independent, and i have to say the guys look way better. About 1/3 of the women are overweight to obese and lot of the guys are training their asses off. Even casually listening will hear conversations about young guys using gear. But look at the action stars vs stars in early 80s and before. Charlton Heston was a shirtless hunk…now he would be mocked for being tiny and frail, but Marylin Monroe would still be hot. But this is to be expected as the pool of hot women goes down the men respond… Read more »
I remember gyms in Brazil had a lot more women than in the States. To me it’s three reasons; –The balance is so tipped in women’s favor in the US. The men have to compete harder and harder as the women become fatter and fatter. I’m sure that’s nothing new to read here. But it’s still overwhelmingly true. And how many girls who are 20 pounds overweight (only!) get bombed out on Tinder etc after posting a cleavage shot or something, then just let that day’s workout slide? Next thing you know, they’re not feeling any need to do their… Read more »
@sjfrellc, I have a long-winded question for you since you are a doctor/lifter/guy who is aware of T-levels. First off, much respect to you as a doctor. Here’s my thinking lately. I’ll give you as brief a weight room history as I can; -I’ve always dinked around in the weight room. I was pretty strong as a teen, benching 225 as a long-armed 145 pound kid. I’m 5’8″ maybe 5’9″. I squatted a lot in my early twenties and was repping well over 300 as a 165 pounder. I actually quit because my legs were swelling up so much that… Read more »
…to continue. The ‘sacrilegious’ thing I want to speculate on is about T-levels/hormonal balance. It’s more or less written in stone that the compound lifts raise T-levels. That’s just a fact to people but I’ve seen the world of health/exercise come up with some real whoppers before, as far as complete mistakes. So I would second guess anything from the exercise world. Is it possible that the T-spike is a temporary post workout spike, but that overall there is actually lower T for a powerlifter who isn’t eating enough? I just thought of it the other day. Rippetoe is kind… Read more »
Goes to show that a by product of modern society is that the sexual market value of women has increased compared to men. The need for male provisioning has declined while the value of male sexiness has increased dramatically. Just look at the sex symbols of yesteryear cinema, Telly Savalis, Jurl Brynner, Earnest Borgnine, Charles Bronson, James Cagney, Michael York etc. Even Austin Powers’ yellow teeth poked fun at the lower bar of male attractiveness in the past, no need for six pack abs back then. I look at the younger set in my vicinity and the uneasiness they feel… Read more »
Johnnycomelately – “Rollo is right, the best way to combat it is ball the walls sexism.”
I am finding that old school chauvinism + solid frame = women kissing my ass. Especially noticeable if they are younger, under 30.
I love mirror.co.uk take on this with their poll:
( http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/luisa-zissman-slams-bra-burning-feminists-5591460 )
Reckon you are squatting/ pulling to much unless You are on gear Wear gear or eat more. Seems to me you are way over trained, which kills your T levels. There is a reason power lifters, strong man, throwers etc look like we do, eat like we do etc. There are a shit ton of middle weight guys who don’t look like meatballs but you have to adjust your diet etc to your training. Or if diet is more important to you, training to your diet. Sooooo step away from squats and deadlifts for a bit, then when you feel… Read more »
sjfrellc – “Pumping iron with a purpose is a mindset. It is a surrogate behavior for having strength in a primitive pre-civilized gang.” Exactly right… And there are a few other surrogate behaviors that optimize our genetic/evolutionary/biology as well: The paleo diet is essentially a surrogate way of eating that mimics the diet of our ancestors. Heavy on animal proteins, fats and vegetables and limiting grains (which many believe we weren’t optimized to digest anyway and which only became a staple of our diet roughly 10,000 years ago with the advent of farming.) HIIT — high intensity interval training mimics… Read more »
Please someone put Roosh on YouTube. It’s the only way I’ll be able to watch it.
On the ratio of m/w in gyms this is something I ALWAYS am amazed at. In the last four years I have had gym memberships at Crunch in Midtown Manhattan, NY Sports Club in Harlem and now LA Fitness in Atlanta. Same thing for the most part, tons of dudes in top shape pounding iron while two or three overweight ladies are running the treadmill. The zumba class are usually pretty full of ladies in decent shape. The Manhattan gym seemed to have a better balance, and I assume its because there are lots affulent liberal 30 something women in… Read more »
I’ve said this before and i’ll say it again. We simply will not win the war against feminism. It’s too powerful and widespread now to even try. It’s not pessimistic, it’s the truth. As men, we’re expected to be strong enough to just stand there and take it, which is even more tough now that we know what’s going on around us. Rollo is spot on with the observation that a man must perform. I also remember someone in the manosphere once saying that every girl will have a string of men chasing after her. You only have to look… Read more »
@Rollo I think you should monetize this blog. Obviously you do this work for the love of it; that doesn’t mean you can’t make some money, and you deserve to. 50,000 unique visitors a month is an incredible achievement. On The New Thin, I put a full equipped gym in my basement: bench, squat rack, safety cage, dumbbells, heavy bag, treadmill, etc, so I can’t speak to the fat women working out in public gyms. But I have a TV mounted on the wall and there’s always weight loss or fitness equipment commercials. It stuns me when I see the… Read more »
The women are there, a lot of them just go to the women only gyms -at least when starting out. It can be quite intimidating trying to work out surrounded by men. I’ve know some who only joined a mixed gym once they’ve lost weight. Also women do more cardio classes at the gyms, rather than use the equipment. The gym i go to has way more hotter men than women. And the men appear to work much harder. But then again weight lifting will always look like more work than walking on a treadmill wont it?
To be fair, the SMV curve and pregnancy are brutal for women. The model on those billboards wont have a long career, when women look at her they feel Death breathing on their necks
“It stuns me when I see the some of “after” pictures and they’re still fat. ”
Fat is the new thin.
Another angle on this fat shaming stuff is that I think women assume female and male sexual attraction are identical when in fact it’s quite different in intensity and range. Women are omnivores sexually and attraction is not instantaneous whereas for men we are much more focused on what we “like” and can get aroused in seconds by a woman, and don’t really vary much in what we like. Women’s sexuality is much more plastic and I think that they believe men could be turned on by fatties because of this at some basic level. This is yet another consequence… Read more »
I can’t believe nobody has brought up Planet Fatness yet. I went in there for a tour and got the bums rush because I’m a 6’1″ guy who looks like he likes to lift heavy. This is the place that shames you if you lift heavy or make any noise in the gym. The daily show gave them a good pilloring a while back. While there, I noticed a female “trainer” wearing a yellow shirt who definately outweighed me, even as short as she was. I’ve asked female friends why they like going there and they all have reasons like… Read more »
I actually got kicked out of Planet Fatness. The gym used to be a Worlds Gym until they went belly up and sold to PF. Then the rules were no grunting, free weights didn’t go above 40lbs, and no tank tops for men.
That’s what got me. All I wear is tanks and they warned me like 4 times. This was back before I knew what PF was about, so I told em to fuck themselves and promptly went 2 blocks away and joined the newly opened Golds who everyone knew would bury PF.
correction: ” It’s actually quite different in from how it is for women.” – should be “in men from how…” Also. anyone curious about this topic, check out Michael J. Bailey, a leading sexual researcher who as almost lynched by radfems and the lgbt brigade but managed to survive. Here’a link to talk by him https://youtu.be/n4WSxZmxH-k He’s also written an amazing book on transgenderism (that got him in so much trouble), The Man Who Would Be Queen. http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf He’s a serious and mild mannered academic with no axe to grind. @Jafyk – Make sure you right click to open my… Read more »
I was at the gym yesterday and a I saw a new fitness staff member who was at least 50 lbs overweight, lol. He may have been a powerlifter, but even for that he was fat. I just did a doubletake when I saw him, I was like what the fuck? My trainer has entered the air force so I’m working out on my own now which I like better. In terms of men/women, I’m at a YMCA so it’s a different demo than your average gym, but I like the basketball court, the steam room, whirlpool and the rock… Read more »
This double-standard gets played out all the time, and the funniest/saddest thing is how openly hypocritical they are: [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q&w=560&h=315%5D I know our host likes to stay out of politics, but I have to point out that this feminist denial of human nature to further their agenda is the same thing that happens when Leftists push Communist ideas. The track record for it is horrible, it goes against human nature, but the still keep promoting it. They don’t care about facts or reality, they care about the fantasy they are weaving for themselves; please don’t be mean and screw it… Read more »
“and no tank tops for men.”
Because it was ostensively a wife-beater?
@Seraph, because tank tops on men make women uncomfortable. That was the last straw for me.
There are two types of girls: (1) The ones clinging to the Imperative, so they don’t go to gyms, and (2) The ones who realise the enormous SMP advantage that is having a fit body among a world of fatties.
Meanwhile, every guy knows that you have to, or at least SHOULD, have a fit body, whatever what for. That is why I think you perceive more guys than girls hitting the gym
It’s “gymtimidation.” I wish I were making that up.
@Onder – You are right in a sense that radfems and social justice warriors overtook the levers of political and social power in the West over the past 50 years and what we are witnessing now in terms of policy is them merely consolidating their gains. We have already lost the academy, the arts and the news media – and we will not get them “back”. But men are far from helpless. I suggest any man who is as overwhelmed by this as you seem to be read a little Nietzsche. He predicted how our politics and public intellectual discourse… Read more »
Re: Daily Show – Do you all see the double standard even in the exposure of this? It’s spun as funny, and kooky – when in fact if the roles were reversed women would lose their minds. I have a perfect analogy. I began golfing just before women started to overtake and feminize golf courses, about 22 years ago. One of the things I loved about it was how innately male the space was. Particularly on the less fancy, public courses. We would smoke cigars, guys would get drunk and by the back 9, pissing on the side of the… Read more »
It’s very interesting that Protein World not only didn’t apologize, but straight up said they weren’t going to. Obviously, the company knows that pro-fatties are not their customers.
Female fat acceptance is ultimately self-defeating, that’s why I care so little about anyone who takes it seriously. The converse would be groups of men insisting that their poor-shape, no-career, no-job, no assets, and poor hygiene selves should be accepted and not shamed by anyone for their “life choices”. Even if you accept that the large group of losers has the ear of the public, they are to be pitied because they’re simply justifying self-destruction. They literally just do not matter. Caring about what they think is like caring what someone who committed suicide was thinking. It might make you… Read more »
RE: Daily Show: Planet Fitness
How about the Verizon Commercial before the Daily show clip (I know I couldv’e skipped it but Verizon is a customer of mine). Intelligent woman gets it right, moron guy doesn’t. Girl: “How’d that work out for you?” Guy: “Not so well, do I get a do over?”
@Signor Farfalla April 28th, 2015 at 2:42 am “Anyway, if you don’t eat enough and you’re not actively building back the broken tissue, you’ll just be existing always in a catabolic state, get used to it, and get used to higher levels of cortisol which is a zero sum game with Testosterone, right? I’m not looking for an excuse to quit the compound lifts. I love them and swear by them but I will just do whatever routine is best for my health at this point. What am I missing?” I would cosign what Sfc ton said. I know a… Read more »
Cue the article from Roosh:
I find it really hard to believe Roosh didn’t know he’d be ambushed:
Funny but no wonder Dr. Oz was pissed. Obviously Roosh knew what was in store and has a different endgame in mind.
My favorite quote from Dr. Oz is a Pussy:
“This woman has a vice grip around Dr. Oz’s balls, embarrassing him in a national publication, and he takes it like the pussy that he is. Dr. Oz is a disgrace to men everywhere. As long as his behavior is seen as “normal,” more men will be pressured to follow in his mangina footsteps.”
Actually he did pretty well in this exchange:
The Roosh article on how he was backstabbed makes it easy for us to understand how he was ambushed. The women producers gamed him by pandering to him “Oh, your ideas don’t seem so awful like I thought they were going to be” Oh Really.
Dr. Oz totally fakes (and makes up shit) medical advice for ratings.
Rollo: “Actually he did pretty well in this exchange”
I thought he did amazingly well. A lot better than Oz, actually.
Oz’s body language was sheepish, and he crossed his legs like a woman…that came across as ungenuine and ‘guarded’.
Was that the entire interview? I couldn’t find the rest of it.
@Liz, that was just the preview clip, show is on at 2pm PST today
Liz, the show doesn’t air till 2:00 PM today. That clip was on Dr.Oz web site as a promo.
Interesting article. Well written and gives a good understanding of basic evolutionary biology. I’ve read 4 of these articles looking to point my brother in law in this direction to better understand his dating market.
A future consolidation of these principles (evolutionary biology) would do your readers well! Good start.
@Jamon, start here:
Well played Protein World, well played…
That’s IT I’m hitting a gym and gaining weight to express my disdain for being underweight. My goal is now to gain 60 pounds in muscle.
I cannot believe Roosh was shocked by this. I mean, on what mainstream news outlet in the U.S. would he be given a fair chance to voice his views? And this is daytime entertainment TV that caters to a very dumb, addled female audience. This is daytime TV folks, just think about who is sitting at home watching this crap (i sold my TV last year and got rid of the Dish 3 years ago). Just imagine who the audience is? Does he or anyone here think that such bubble-headed wannabe-princesses have developed any kind of critical thinking skills? Or… Read more »
“The only thing that will can work is force. ”
There ya go.
“But we can’t talk about this, can we? ”
Talk about it? You’re not even supposed to have been able to think about it.
Ok, so if men are supposed to find fatties attractive, women should then be attracted to shorter and poorer men then them. That seems fair.
Women shouldn’t be so superficial and objectify men.
This a wonderful example of a removal from domain dependence. Roosh may say stupid stuff @Gleen but at least he can do it on TV as well as online. I never was able to have an opinion the way Roosh puts observations are interesting. A interesting thing I learned about my self is body language look at how Roosh postures his body. Anyone who immediatly recognizes alpha in a group or room goes first by body language from are eyes to are Brain. The best thing that’s happen to me lately is getting feedback by people mentioning the eye contact… Read more »
@Excalibur, that’s all Roosh needed to say. My bet is he doesn’t
Come on Glenn. Read Rollis link to “Dr Oz is a pussy” where Roosh calls Oz’s wife a fatty and basically rips both them a new asshole.
Will point him there, get him off my case. I’m the one he looks to talk about these issues, his parents passed. I am the dominant or “alpha” male in the new lingo; the successful guy who pretty much does what he wants within reason but taking care of others as I pass.
Will talk to him after some reading has gone down range to ensure the effort on his part is real and my effort not wasted. Younger men have a lot to learn. (Many older men as well)
“In a way you can help change cultural and overweight by removing the convenience of a bus and walk.” No, it really can’t. The Dutch, who are famous for their bicycling, have a growing obesity problem and it isn’t uncommon to see land whales riding to the markets on their bikes. It burns remarkably few calories and an extra cookie or pat of butter covers it. It only works as a supplement to diet control. It is the diet control that actually does the job. There are body builders who go on stage at 3% body fat who won’t even… Read more »
Thanks for pointing that out. So here’s something that may work. Most people now have mobile devices. Why not use the App Store to create a fitness journal that finds creative ways like google maps to get you to lose a portion of body mass? Everything’s being digitalized these days anyhow. Would feminist be angry about bringing something such as that up? By the way is it just me or are people in hotter climates more prone to looking desiraeable?
‘Forever Fat Loss’ has been a great read so far. I thought I mentioned that book in the last comment I made, but apparently I didn’t. Science has a long way to go as far as obesity is concerned. It’s hardly a simple topic, and my main problem with ‘fat shaming’ is that it reinforces the public ignorance about nutrition/health issues, as if simple thermodynamics — ‘calories in, calories out’ — is all there is to the equation, which makes a convenient argument for the ‘fat people are lazy’ crowd. ‘Fat acceptance’, on the other hand, also encourages public ignorance… Read more »
“Why not use the App Store to create a fitness journal that finds creative ways . . .” Because their are no creative ways. The body builders worked out the ways that work more than a century ago: Eat less overall, but do not eat less protein. The only tricky bit is hunger control. Mild exercise allows you to eat a bit more for the same caloric deficit without driving more hunger, but isn’t necessary. Resistance training retards muscle loss. Chicken breast and broccoli allows you to eat the most volume, for the lowest calories while maintaining protein intake. If… Read more »
“Science has a long way to go as far as obesity is concerned. It’s hardly a simple topic . . .”
In an ad lib environment.
Heading to Detroit now. Leaving earth cost a lot I checked it can be hugely expensive private space training is mostly done in Russia.
If anyone has a ticket off this planet, let me know.
I suppose that means I am under weight and need to eat more. Found this forum on Google
Yeah, it’s ugly…