The Political is Personal

personal

Dalrock had an interesting post this morning – Black Fathers Don’t Matter – that mends nicely with a topic I was poking at in Obesity Culture:

While HHS (Health and Human Services) says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father, the Census says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father so long as mom says so.  Either way, fathers clearly can’t matter that much to the US government if distinguishing between the actual father and the man currently banging mom isn’t important.

There are other ways we can tell that fathers don’t matter (and therefore Black fathers don’t matter).  Under our current family system fathers are a sort of deputy parent. Just like a sheriff’s deputy serves at the pleasure of the sheriff, a father in an intact family serves at the pleasure of the mother.  Our entire family court structure is designed to facilitate the removal of the father should the mother decide she no longer wants him to be part of the family unit.  How important can fathers really be, when we have a massive and brutal bureaucracy devoted to helping mothers kick them out of the house?

What Dal is pointing out here has a far broader implication than simply how various governments define fatherhood. Many critics of my defining the Feminine Imperative like to think it’s a work in conspiracy. However, as I’ve explained before, there really is no need for a conspiracy; the Feminine Imperative has no centralized power base because feminine-primacy is so ensaturated into our collective social consciousness. It needs no centralization because feminine social primacy is literally part of women’s self-understanding – and by extension men’s understanding of women and what women expect of them.

Thus, on a Hypergamous social scale we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.

[…]

On more than a few occasions I’ve made the connection that what we see in a feminine-primary societal order is really a reflection of the female sexual strategy writ large. When we see a culture of obesity, a culture of body fat acceptance and a culture that presumes a natural evolved order of innate differences between the sexes should be trumped by self-impressions of female personal worth, we’re viewing a society beholden to the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamy.

A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.

I’m quoting this again here because, in light of Dalrock’s observations, it’s important for men to really understand that the power struggle women claim to be engaged in with men has already been settled on a meta, social scale. When a father is whomever a woman says he is, that’s a very powerful tool of social power leveraging.

  • A father is anyone a woman/mother claims he is
  • A father is legally bound to children he didn’t sire
  • A father is prevented at great legal and social effort from access to DNA testing of children he suspects aren’t his own
  • A father is legally responsible for the children resulting from his wife/girlfriend cuckolding him
  • A father is financially obligated to the support of children that he didn’t sire or he had no power in deciding to sire

These aren’t just examples relating to men’s lack of power in parenting; these are examples of determining the degree of control a man can exercise over the direction of his entire life. From Truth to Power:

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

The inherent insecurity that optimizing Hypergamy poses to women is so imperative, so all-consuming, to their psychological wellbeing that establishing complex social orders to facilitate that optimization were the first things women collectively constructed when they were (nominally) emancipated from men’s provisioning around the time of the sexual revolution.

Ensuring the optimization of women’s biologically prompted Hypergamy is literally the basis of our current social order. On a socio-political scale what we’re experiencing is legislation and cultural mandates that better facilitate Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

Driver had a good comment from the last post that illustrates another aspect of this feminine-power consolidation (emphasis mine):

“All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.”

It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big. You would think that these overweight women would get the memo by now but women (and more of them) keep getting bigger each year.

Feminine-Primary Social Doctrine is the Extension of Women’s Hypergamy

In a feminine-primary social order women presume, without an afterthought, that they are entitled to an attractive guy who works out and meets or exceeds women’s very stringent and static physical ideal. At the same time they expect an entitlement to absolute control of that attraction/arousal process regardless of, and to the exception of, any influence or difference in men’s control of that process. And they expect this without any thought to meriting it beyond appeals to a nebulous and inflated concept of their personal self-worth.

When we consider the present, ambiguous state of sexual consent laws we begin to understand the latent Hypergamous purpose those laws serve – absolute consolidation of women’s Hypergamous strategies as the motivator of any sexual encounter.

Furthermore, they expect an entitlement, either directly or indirectly, to the material support and provisioning of men for no other reason than they were born female.

Any deviation from this is on the part of  men is met with a cultural reprisal designed to convince or coerce men to accept their inevitable role in providing those entitlements to women. When those social contingencies fail, or become played out, the Feminine Imperative then appeals to legal legislation to mandate men’s compliance to what amounts to women’s social entitlement to optimized Hypergamy.

Legislating Hypergamy

From the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy this amounts to socially shaming men’s sexual imperatives while simultaneously empowering women’s short-term sexual strategies and fomenting men’s societal acceptance of it (i.e. the Sandberg plan for Open Hypergamy). This is further enforced from a legal perspective through consent laws and vague “anti-harassment” legislation to, ideally, optimize women’s hypergamous prospects.

When we read about instances of the conveniently fluid definitions of rape and harassment (not to mention the pseudo-victimhood of not being harassed), this then turns into proposed “rape-by fraud” legislation. Hypergamy wants absolute certainty, absolute veracity, that it will be secured in its optimization. And in an era when the only restraint on Hypergamy depends on an individual woman’s capacity for being self-aware of it, that Hypergamy necessitates men be held legally responsible for optimizing it.

Even the right for women to have safe and legal abortions finds its root in women’s want to mandate an insurance of their Hypergamous impulses. Nothing says “he wasn’t the right guy” like the unilateral power to abort a man’s genetic legacy in utero.

Feminist boilerplate would convince us that expanding definitions of rape is an effort to limit men’s control of women’s bodies – however, the latent purpose of expanding the definition is to consolidate on the insecurity all women experience with regard to optimizing Hypergamy.

The Beta Bucks insurance aspect of Hypergamy is evidenced by cultural expectations of male deference to wives’ authority in all decision making aspects of a marriage or relationship. And once again this expectation of deference is a grasping for assurances of control should a woman’s Hypergamous choosing of a man not meet her expectations. This is actualized covertly under the auspices of egalitarian equalism and the dubious presumptions of support and feminine identification on the part of men.

Beyond this there are of course the ubiquitous divorce, support, child support and domestic violence legalities that grossly favor women’s interests – which should be pointed out are rooted in exactly the same Hypergamous insecurity that her short-term Alpha Fucks mating strategies demand legislation for.

As Open Hypergamy becomes more institutionalized and made a societal norm by the Feminine Imperative, and as more men become Red Pill aware (by effort or consequences) because of it, the more necessary it will become for a feminine-primary social order to legislate and mandate men comply with it.

Going Mainstream

I’ve addressed this before, but I’ve never done politics on TRM. I will never do screeds on race or multi-culturalism or religion on TRM for a very good reason – it pollutes the message.

We now are seeing the results of this pollution as the manosphere is attacked from both sides of the political spectrum.

I’ve given this example before, but if you put Gretchen Carlson and Rachel Maddow on the same show and confronted them with red pill truths and Game-awareness they would eagerly close ranks, reserve their political differences and cooperatively fight for the Feminine Imperative.

This is the degree to which the Feminine Imperative has been saturated into our western social fabric. Catholic women in the Vatican may have very little in common with Mormon women in Utah, but let a Mormon woman insist the church alter its fundamental foundational articles of faith with regard to women in favor of a doctrine substituted by the Feminine Imperative and those disparate women have a common purpose.

That is the depth of the Feminine Imperative – that female primacy should rewrite articles of faith to prioritize women’s interests.

Religious doctrine, legal and political legislation, cultural norms, labor and economic issues; all are trumped by the Feminine Imperative. All have been subverted to defer to the Feminine Imperative while maintaining a default status of victimhood and oppression of women and women’s interests necessary to perpetuate that covert decentralized power base.

It doesn’t matter what world view, ideology or political stripe the opposition holds; men, masculinity and anything contrary to the feminine-primary social narrative will always be a common enemy of the Feminine Imperative, and both liberal and conservative will climb over one another to throw the first punch if it means defending women and defending the feminine social order by proxy.

This is why anything even marginally pro-masculine is vilified in mainstream society. Anything pro-masculine is always an easy, preferred target because it’s so hated, so incorrect, in a feminine-primary context that it can unite people of hostilely opposed political and ideological differences.

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

This is what scares the shit out of critics who attempt to define, contain and compartmentalize the manosphere / Red Pill awareness; it’s bigger than social, racial, political or religious strictures can contain. It crosses all of those constructs just as the Feminine Imperative has co-opted all of those cultural constructs. The feminized infrastructure of the MSM that’s just beginning to take the manosphere seriously enough to be critical are discovering this and trying to put the genie back into a bottle defined by their feminine-primary conditioning.

The idea that one of their own, whether in a liberal or conservative context, is genuinely Red Pill aware and educating others of that awareness is unnerving for the Feminine Imperative that’s already established strong footholds in either ideology.

669 comments

  1. “It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big”

    Nope. That, my friend, is called “projection” in psychology. we project our ideas/desires on others when we think that others do/see thinks we do/see.

    Women have an INITIAL attraction to men in good shape. However, it is only the kick-off; a good body without a good job and a good personal economy is disregarded. Causes:
    1. women are risk-aversive. A man who is not able to secure her economic well-being is not an asset for them.
    2. the price of a commodity is based on its relative abundance and the ease to produce it. The dating market has an excessive offer of guys with worked bodies (steroids and nastier crap) and a shortage of manly men with a good economy. Therefore, women will value men who have a good economy over body-built men. Especially in the global economic crisis.

    Most of the people who hit the gym compulsively are guys who never get laid. I know because I used to be one (now I have a job and pay hookers, and do exercise for my personal health). It is very easy to see narcissistic personality traits in guys at the gym: all of them working out in front of a mirror, using a tiny t-shirt so that they can see how their muscles are growing… they have behaviors that resemble homosexual men.

    Do you really think women women will privilege a guy with the body of Charles Atlas over an average joe with a BMW m318?

  2. @Lone Survivor

    You mention projection and the proceed to project so hard there’s probably a silhouette of your ego on the moon.

  3. @Lone —

    You’re mixing up AF and BB.

    Just to make it simple — AFs are men women will fuck “for fun”, regardless of their finances, job situation, life situation, etc. The women KNOW the men are poor candidates for anything more than hot sex, but they find them so hot, they still fuck them anyway, and harbor the hope that they can “clean them up” to make them work for something longer term (which almost always fails).

    BBs are guys women will date/LTR/marry, due to the entire package, of course including finances and money, but NOT the guys they would fuck just for fun.

    Women are attracted to both for different things. That’s the whole point of what Rollo writes about — I think you’ve missed it somehow.

    It’s like that bar game that women play — Fuck, Marry, Kill. The guys in the “fuck” category are the AFs, the guys in the “marry” category are the BBs, and the guys in the “kill” category are the guys they would never fuck or marry even if they were the last guy on earth. It’s intuitive for women.

  4. Great post Rollo. You are absolutely right; the Red Pill awareness needs to disassociate itself with any specific ideology. The mainstream media likes to label and simplify; so they can easily create a narrative to dismiss ‘dangerous’ ideas. They use these generic labels to strip our very humanity, individuality, and identity.

  5. You think it’s possible to be all three at different points
    Fuck
    Marry
    Kill

    Sure, guys can go up and down depending on what they do with their bodies, minds and lives.

  6. @Novaseeker
    what they do with their bodies, minds and lives.
    Body stay fit
    Mind expand
    Live improve an every level

    What a great day.

  7. @Lone
    ““It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big”

    Nope. That, my friend, is called “projection” in psychology. we project our ideas/desires on others when we think that others do/see thinks we do/see.”

    You have obviously not been around enough women (young to cougar) when they’re congregated to watch Magic Mike for the 18th time, or mentally undressing underage Wolfboy from Twihard.

    You need a mop and bucket to sop up all the wetness they generate. Sure, the game is yours to fuck up if you start tripping over your own words, acting sheepish or just being all rounds gamma. But i haven’t met one woman yet who isn’t aroused and attracted to hard bodied men.

    Even the ones who swear up and down they hate muscle guys, they only say that because they probably got burned. Deep down, they’re still looking for their own romance novel cover hero to call their own that will treat her like the special snowflake she is.

    Too bad special snowflake is 300lbs and thinks Hugh Jackman lookalike should be attracted to her PhD and her ‘worldly charms’. She’s big and beautiful and he should respect that and not try to make her fit into an unrealistic body ideal.

  8. Catholic women in the Vatican…

    There are no women “in the Vatican”. At least, none with power.

    And since only men can be Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes, no woman will ever vote at the Vatican. Women hold zero power there, and that’s not going to change (infallible doctrine). So the femcentric West has zero traction at the Vatican. Hell, even birth control is outlawed in the RCC, not to mention that the entire Vatican has taken a vow of chastiy…so I don’t see how femcentric inroads will be made there. Probably more likely to be influenced by Africans than Westerners over the next few centuries, since Westerners ain’t breeding.

    It’s why the Church is the longest lasting institution in the world, 2,000 years (and still growing). The femcentric West? What, 400 years old tops, and now shrinking like crazy? Check back in another 1,000 years. The Vatican yawns.

  9. “Affirmative consent” and giving credence to post hoc accusations of rape is, I think, a form of terrorism against Alphas and Betas but for different reasons. As for the Alpha, it is leverage to make a lack of commitment after sex a nasty affair, while it is pure terrorism for Betas. Cf. Ezra Klein stating men should “feel a cold spike of fear when they begin a sexual encounter.”

  10. As an institution over time, that may be true of the Vatican, but as for Pope Francesco — talking about how the non-issue “pay gap” is a scandal is really a sign of FI thinking impacting him individually.

  11. “As an institution over time, that may be true of the Vatican, but as for Pope Francesco — talking about how the non-issue “pay gap” is a scandal is really a sign of FI thinking impacting him individually.”

    This is all true and the MSM will run with this pap, but one Pope is rather constrained in what he can do given what his predecessors back to Peter have done. Contradict another ex cathedra teaching, and he undermines his own authority. What the Pope says as a private theologian or giving his own opinions on matter which are not within the realm of faith and morals is not doctrine and not binding. All of this is to say that one Pope can do tremendous public relations damage to the Church but is limited in his ability to do actual lasting doctrinal harm.

  12. Not only does nature abhor a vacuum, it abhors imbalance. The RP at the moment is in the first stage of a ten decade accendancy to attain balance with the FI.

  13. From the OP: “The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.”

    In our talk last night, someone (Rocket?) pointed out that violence and warfare (or at least the threat of it) has been the normative state for humankind throughout history. This lead to a) a reduced male population due to violent death; and b) a greater necessity for uniquely masculine skill-sets. Jeremy pointed out that the atomic bomb has lead to such a threat of destruction that war has gone out of style. This has lead to a circumstance where men are both (relative to historical norms) abundant and superfluous.

    As such, a devaluation of masculinity and the ascent of the FI was virtually assured.

    In former times, a child was only legitimized as the heir and charge of a man if he explicitly accepted them as such. In Roman culture, for example, a newborn was placed before the father and he could choose to accept them by picking them up and giving a name, or to turn his back – at which juncture they would be taken into the wilderness and left there to suffer the mercy of the gods.

    I don’t advocate a return to this system, but the contrast with current, strangely invisible (to most) female supremacy is stark.

    A feminine-dominant culture isn’t the product of a single movement or conspiracy. It is the product of fundamental human realities released from the enervation of social constraint by advantageous circumstance – much the same as men’s violent nature will, on a collective level, run amuck in a circumstance of total war.

  14. Here’s an interesting example – in some of the polygamous sects that still exist in America (especially around Utah), a patriarchal, masculine system still holds sway.

    These communities are notorious for excommunicating young men for slight offenses, and for excommunicating women almost never. The system requires the elimination or marginalization of a proportion of the men in order to operate – otherwise, for every elder and preacher with 13 wives of various ages, you would have 12 rather disgruntled men with none.

    Disgruntled men are dangerous.

  15. There are quite a few men who defend women’s prerogatives/hypergamy and demand of other men that they inseminate some woman as the purpose of life. There is conflict between men over the marrying and family not just between some men and women. Also, hypergamy is about a serious amount of wealth on the part of the Beta-males. Would anyone care to guess how that much wealth is calculated or recognized?

  16. So you don’t see the disparity in male/female power? How about you try and demand your girlfriend abort her ‘accidental’ pregnancy?

    Shouldn’t the choice to have a child from one’s genetic stock be a choice only undertaken by two rational, consenting adults? Just like, ya know, any sort of sexual conduct has to be?

    Oh, it’s ‘her body, her choice?’ Why is it not also her financial responsibility then?

    It can be frustrating, being RP. It’s like having another sense that everyone around you denies having. “No, man, I dunno what you’re talking about with this whole ‘seeing’ thing. What do you mean, like you can feel things before you get up to them? You’re crazy man!” 😛

  17. From the OP: “The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.”

    This almost goes back to being similar to how Karen Straghen talked about the value of each sex’s reproduction. Women’s eggs=valuable, Men’s sperm=cheap. Thus every woman needs to be seen as special because every ‘egg’ is special.. so there is no distinction for ‘female beauty’.. they all produce ‘valuable egg’s’ so they’re all riding in the same beautiful fertility boat. They’ve equated ‘female’ with beauty, so by hook or by crook, they’re all beautiful despite sagging exteriors.

    Men on the other hand, disposable, replaceable, cheap.. so only the best specimens will do. Our female egg’s are important remember.. so we all deserve and demand the best. This is why they still get to demand Alpha’s and top tier jockstraps like the Tatums and Jackmans, etc.

    You’ll notice this is a truly gendered thing.. as there are no male campaigns calling for George Castanza to be the next Calvin Klien underwear model, or Tom Arnold to be the next Old Spice Guy (I’m on a horse! *horse crumples and dies*) Men don’t start campaigns to alter reality. And they never will. We readily accept it.

    Frail women’s sensibilities on the other hand.. fear reality, especially a reality in which perhaps they aren’t seen as special or valuable simply for their ability to be impregnated and are scrutinized on our evolved indicators of health and fitness.

    Normally this would never come to fruition. But they have multiplied and grown immensely (pardon the pun). And now there are more of them than there are of us. And they now have enough voices to form a majority consensus to try and enforce it upon us.

  18. “The idea that one of their own, whether in a liberal or conservative context, is genuinely Red Pill aware and educating others of that awareness is unnerving for the Feminine Imperative that’s already established strong footholds in either ideology.”

    That is why it is likely that the ‘sphere will eventually be outlawed.
    It would be wise to make contingency plans for keeping the knowledge stream flowing when it is forced underground.

  19. Forge,
    Yes it can be frustrating to be RP. And do you know what is the best thing to do when things change for the worse?

    1. Move through the 5 Stages of Grief. Get to acceptance.
    2. Adapt.
    3. Understand and develop Game for how things at that moment in time.

    Patriarchal societies suppressed the natural dual sexual strategy of women. The sexual revolution with suffrage prior and then birth control by women and then family divorce laws handed women a Matriarchal society especially at the poor socioeconomic side of the bell curve. The rich male side of the bell curve can still perform well with women because if you are a Beta Bucks, the more money the better.

    But guess what? The Matriarchy is pissed for past subjugation by the Patriarchy. Just like blacks as a race are pissed by piss poor treatment by former whites as individuals.

    It’s payback time by the Patriarchy. We can’t go back to the patriarchy because of societal shifts. We men hold no more good or trump cards in our societal hands that can reclaim a patriarchal society.

    I discussed my disappointment 5 months ago about the patriarchy disintegrating in the U.S. I was discussing it with an extremely attractive married (a petite spinner body), Syrian emigre resident doctor I was teaching in my office. In the middle east the patriarchy treats women like shit. Horribly in U.S equalist-feminist standards. You could tell she was uncomfortable how she had it here and her sisters were getting the shaft back home. Don’t think if the middle eastern women had leverage, they won’t have payback in mind.

    Now women in the US were never treated like blacks or middle eastern women. But they imagine they were in their minds and revenge is the order of the day. In order for their strategy to over-rule, the patriarchy of the past must suffer

    Excuse me for using race. It is simply for analogy purposes. And hell yes I think a patriarchal society is better for men and women. And I believe a matriarchal society is the beginning of the end. But not by default, there have been successful matriarchal societies, but only if the were wealthy, had plenty of resources and the women were intelligent. ?the India country Dravidians perhaps. (“Intelligent Women” best represented by Yareally by a picture of Don Draper raising a glass of bourbon to his smirking lips. But I digress.)

    So adapt. Use your intellect and your resources and adapt.

  20. @mdavid

    The Vatican would be better served in finding the next Charles Martel. In about 50 years Islam will surpass Christianity as the world’s largest religion. You said it yourself, Africa will be the rising influence that tips the balance and Pew projects Islam is winning that numbers game.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/

    Italy has a fertility rare of 1.42 children per woman. That is as bad as Japan; well below the 2.0 child replacement needed to sutain their populace. The damage is already done to Italy; the bitter price will be paid over the next decades. Italy better be importing a ton of African Christians or the Vatican will be replaced by mosques in a century.

    I don’t have much faith in the EU or European governments; like Rollo said the Feminine Imperative has co-opted them.

  21. @Forge

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_boys_%28Mormon_fundamentalism%29

    You talkin about these guys? Yeah, the polygamous Mormon sects really fuck their boys over hard. It really is a microcosm for the herbivores of Japan and increasingly the US and Eurozone. Scary and sad to watch.

    As for war reducing the male population, my source was:

    Piss poor recording quality (and an odd journey over in to movie territory), but his points are quite lucid and valid.

  22. As an aside, did Louis CK take the red pill recently? He’s been killing it with men’s issues so far this season on Louie. Nice to see RP thinking on the fringes of the mainstream.

  23. @M3

    Man, I used to work out 6 times a week (4 in the gym, 2 in martial arts). Used proteins and creatine, turned myself into a tank on two legs. And guess what: YES, women looked me a lot more; and NO, they didn’t dated me because I did not have a decent job (was doing 600 euro a month, lived in a small town). And now, the counterblow: when some of the women that did not wanted to date me because I had no steady job knew that I was offered a position in one of the wealthiest countries of Europe, THEY started pursuing me. To make it even more evident, a male friend of mine had a soft body and had dating proposals because he has a permanent government job, and he got laid a lot more than me.

    So call it projection, but it is a blunt truth. I agree on the important of working out, but it is not the only thing.

    It is important that you realize that it is indeed true that women change their reproductive strategy as they approach the wall. However, as I repeatedly said, the concept of “alpha” itself is an oxymoron. Men are masculine and functional or not. “Alpha” is a word designed in observance to the feminine imperative.

    Also, remember that it is possible for a man to be both masculine, hard bodied and have a good economy. If a woman knows that Average Musclelesss Joe drives a Beamer and has a house in Malibu Beach, do you think she will care if he has a good body or not? If Joe knows how to tell her “you are coming to my house only if you fuck my brains off” he has a better pitch than Muscle Dave who lives in Mommy’s basement.

    Your assumptions are correct in an economic context where everyone has access to a job and money.

  24. @Novaseeker

    Just to make it simple — AFs are men women will fuck “for fun”, regardless of their finances, job situation, life situation, etc. The women KNOW the men are poor candidates for anything more than hot sex, but they find them so hot, they still fuck them anyway, and harbor the hope that they can “clean them up” to make them work for something longer term (which almost always fails).

    A guy with no job, fucked finances and fucked life is not an Alpha.

  25. Is the F.I. Real? Of course. That’s why As a rule; I completely ignore fatties and fuggs in every situation. Sure, attractive women are dangerous but at least they inspire an erection.
    Fatties and fuggs are more dangerous because they’re easy. Easy pussy always cost mor in the long run.

  26. @Lone —

    I think country-specific issues are at play here.

    Most of this blog is directed towards the situation in the US, which is a very prosperous country, where women have their own money, and where, yes, they will fuck a cash-less AF bartender well before they will fuck a soft-bodied BMW-driving rich guy — at least before they are 30. It sounds like your country has a lot less prosperity, and it’s true that where there is less prosperity, women tend to focus more on resources — but that isn’t what men in American and West European cities are experiencing, and so that’s why this blog tends to read the way it does. In the US women generally only emphasize a man’s resources once they are looking to marry, and they are only looking to marry after they have had their fill of AFs (who don’t necessarily have much cash at all) and realize that marriage to one of them either wouldn’t work or isn’t happening. That’s the reality in the prosperous world.

    TL;DR: If you are living in a country which is not very prosperous and where women don’t have their own secure source of lots of cash, you may experience a greater emphasis on resources than we do in the US.

  27. Given Catholics voting record I have to disagree women/ feminist don’t run that organization.

    I reckon it takes about 4x the median income( for your area of operations) for beta bucks to come into play in a woman’s long term relationship strategy. No hard data on that, just what I have observed over the years and living in various areas of the usa. I base that estimation on a lot of.things but mostly on my own experiences. I didn’t see a particularly large increase in my number when my income went.from 1.45 times the local median income to 3.5 times the local median income. Sure I got laid more but nothing that couldn’t be explained by simply having the cash to be out more often. Also, I live pretty damn cheap like on a third of what I earn so that might throw off my experiences

    In the same vein, I think understated status symbols are easier to fake these days(credit? Knock offs? Anyone know or care why?). I regularly wear a Rolox and it seems very few women pick up on it as a marker for wealth. Men do pick up on it pretty regularly

    However, it doesn’t take much money at all for you to be a target for her short term beta bucks strategy. You take a chick out 4 times and drop $60 bucks on her each time, you just freed up enough of her .money to cover her cell phone bill and a new pair of shoes. I have a heard time getting middle class betas to see that bit of math

    One of the reasons motorcycles work so well is not only the status symbol for wealth and risk taking but they also equal a lot of cheap dates. Go one town over for milk shakes in a car…. not such a big deal to her; do the same on a bike and she thinks it’s an adventure.

    Well reckon I side tracked the conversation enough and the range goes hot in 90 minutes so it’s time to go to work

  28. @lone survivor

    No money, a fucked life, and the right attitude is vagina Valhalla. When I want to turn a hot girl down nicely I just start talking about my exciting “corporate job”, mention my mom, and offer to buy her stuff until she ejects on her own.

    You either aren’t listening or can’t think abstractly enough.

  29. @Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo, I tried it where I used to live… and it was a let down, a big let down. Tried online dating, what a waste of time.

    Maybe I will give Titder another chance. Thanks for your blog, it is a great eye opener.

    @Novaseeker

    Yes, I agree that country variability is something to consider. I was in Portugal.

    Now, is it really true that american economy is wealthy? I mean, there are books, texts, videos reporting tha american economy is in stagnation, especially for young people with less than 25 years of age. From what I read, in the US is getting harder and harder to get a job. Could you please elaborate your view?

    Also, a good video for all people here:

  30. “As for me, I need to rebuild my whole perception of everything – including friendships with other blue pill men, as they are IMO the worst case.”

    You too, huh?

    As soon as we hit adolescence, my so-called childhood best friend became a gold-plated, dyed-in-the-wool White Knight. Given that he was raised in part by a domineering bitch who was more than likely infected by the Feminist virus in the 60’s, it stands to reason that he’d have a hard time saying “No” to a woman. Even so, it didn’t make for the best company. He’s done his fair share of traveling over the past several years and we (thankfully) fell out of touch, but he still tries to get reconnected here and there. Ain’t gonna happen.

  31. “It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

    Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.”

    Gotta admit, this is a pretty nice defense of you apolitical stance.

    I still think the connection between FI, feminism and Leftist thought is a big part of the equation, but perhaps I am looking at it from the wrong perspective.

    If, as you suggest, traditional masculinity is such a threat to the order of those three (thus their hostility to it), then perhaps pushing back through promoting masculinity, under the Red Pill flag, will be enough to undermine all three’s power structures. It will also have the added benefit of creating “social warriors” of our own, but true ones, not faux ones.

    It might also make us what some conservatives call “happy warriors”.

    Interesting.

  32. “Do you really think women women will privilege a guy with the body of Charles Atlas over an average joe with a BMW m318?”

    Mini-rant here…

    You are a troll…or a navel gazer who can’t pick their head up for two seconds because you are too busy fondling yourself mentally.

    When I first learned about Red Pill, it was through The Misandry Bubble, which led me to Roissy. Intrigued, I proceed to read almost ALL of Roissy up to that point, including a large amount of the commentary (which was before much of it got stupid and boring).

    I then proceeded to read, no exaggeration, millions of words on the subject from various sources, including the Rational Male, including going back into his archives, and both Rollo’s books.

    I have read stuff that awed me, floored me and some that I thought was horse-shit, but the point is, I read up on it.

    If you knew FUCK ONE about Red Pill thought, you would not have written that sentence. You would know the answer, even if you ONLY read articles here on RM.

    You obviously did not, or your reading comprehension is pitiful. Even way, you seem pathetic to me, and my tolerance for pathetic is low.

    I am not going to tell you to go away, or STFU. I am merely going to add you to the long list of commentators on various sites whose comments I ignore when I see your name because it is a waste of my time.

    Congratulations, nimrod.

  33. @ Seraph

    Bravo. My mini rant would be near identical, tho i found the misandry bubble only after starting out with the google search phrase ‘how do i my wife to love me again’, before stumbling across Evan Marc Katz and Hooking Up Smart. Once i started seeing some redpill guys over there i started to branch out into the sphere and start my own blog for a bit – and the rest was history.

    Digesting thousands of articles from which a greater knowledge and understanding developed. A knowledge that made everything make perfect sense – rather than trying to bang a square peg into a round hole and not understanding why it won’t go in but bluepill society keeps telling you to keep plugging away at it champ, it’ll fit eventually! The redpill allows you to navigate life with true confidence. The bluepill leaves you dumfounded and confused.

    “If you knew FUCK ONE about Red Pill thought, you would not have written that sentence. You would know the answer, even if you ONLY read articles here on RM.”

    Exactly.

  34. @ Lone Survivor

    Must i remind anyone that Roger Elliot had a fucking BMW.. look where it got him.

    “If a woman knows that Average Musclelesss Joe drives a Beamer and has a house in Malibu Beach, do you think she will care if he has a good body or not? If Joe knows how to tell her “you are coming to my house only if you fuck my brains off” he has a better pitch than Muscle Dave who lives in Mommy’s basement.”

    That’s not attraction. That’s women’s dual sexual strategy skewed towards the provisioning aspect of their Hypergamy. Why do you think so many women fuck completely ugly men? Why do you think prostitution is even a thing? Because women can and WILL supress their gag reflex and FEIGN desire to be the seductresses they need to be to extract exactly what they need from the transaction.

    If we have a woman hooked up to a thermal imaging monitor and present her with a shlub in a Mercedes vs truckload of shirtless firefighters doing a strip tease – which scenario do you think is going to reduce her to a quivering mess of vaginal drippings?

    And in case you aren’t keeping score.. vaginal drippings = pure attraction, the kind that money simply CANNOT and never will buy.

  35. @ Seraph.

    I have lived in the US (3 months), Latin America, (32 years), Portugal (2 years) and now I am in the north of Europe (3 months).

    Please do yourself a favor and stop doing such childish rants. You sound like baby crying for his bottle.

    You talk based on what you read. I talk based on
    1. what I LIVED
    2. what my old man taught me

    If you are truly red pilled, you must be able to constantly assess the accuracy of the fundamentals of red pill.

    Besides, I have been to TRP reddit and it looked like a bunch of brainwashed guys repeating the same things over and over.

    The purpose of TRP is to set you free of previous preconceptions and allow you to analyze man-woman interactions from a more realistic and less unbiased view; not to replace the femininie-imperative brainwash program with another brainwash brainware.

    Be thankful that I took the time to respond you politely considering how disrespectful you were, and do not address me again until you are capable of thinking by yourself and responding in an educated fashion.

    Thank you and farewell.

  36. @Rollo – Bullshit on all the political comments you made. I like you, but if you aren’t going to talk politics than don’t talk politics. In fact, it is the rise of the radical collectivism and egalitarianism that gives license to social justice warriors/radfems run amok. It’s what instrumentalizes the FI in the vicious way it is at work today. It’s unrestrained now due to the politics, and the politics that enable it and support it come from the left, not the right. Fyi, that’s not to say that traditional society wasn’t informed by the FI but it was also restrained by it too – and yes, the right does support traditional Blue Pilling in some very real ways. But none of that makes your statements about how politics interacts with the FI correct.

    You see, your “model” is silly. You seem to believe that politics operates “below” the FI, as though there is some lexical hierarchy or priority to these forces when in fact we live in a social, complex system where the effects of various forces do not have any hierarchy or order. They are just effects which interact and cause actions and outcomes in the system, sometimes “small” effects can wildly effect outcomes, yes? So your entire presentation of our social system, and how the FI and politics might interact is baseless, and in fact wrong.

    You see, the FI needs permission to change institutional polices and missions. It needs real political and economic power to change the laws. It needs support in academia to overtake the public consciousness via propaganda filled education. This has all been achieved by political power and it was intentionally and intensely sought by the left. It’s better to say that the FI was restrained by culture and politics for a long time, and now politics has been used to unleash it and give it power in amazing new ways. Delivered to you by the left, not the right. If you don’t know that, you simply have your head up your ass.

    Put more bluntly, it’s clear you’ve never read say Marx, Engels, Gramsci or Rawls. Someone who has would never say the things you say about politics of feminism and it’s onslaught against traditional society as your comments fly in the face of what these and many other leftists said and did, it’s on the record. It’s all there in black and white – you just haven’t bothered to study it.

    Here is simple proof that you are wrong. Traditional social structures were not overwhelmed by the FI for thousands of years, but suddenly, in the past 60 years it wrecks the family itself and most sexual/social traditions? I mean, if it’s ever-present then how could it all of the sudden run wild? Something ELSE changed. It was the rise of radical egalitarianism and collectivism, which of course came expressly from the left. You often lament the “equalism” which is at the base of much of the current radfem/sjw insanity. WHERE DO YOU THINK THE EQUALISM THAT INFORMS RADFEM/SJW’S TODAY COMES FROM? FROM FUCKING POLITICS!! WAKE THE FUCK UP!!

    Also, stop with the equivalency between the left and the right, it’s an intellectually lazy way to deal with this (and signals ignorance to those of us who study this area carefully. If you don’t want to talk about politics don’t, I get it at the bigger picture level. Getting into partisanship and parties is absolutely counterproductve for having constructive Red Pill discussions. and I don’t wish to argue about politics here. But your presentation of it here absurd and of a lower quality than much of your other thinking. Either learn something about how politics are one of the major drivers of all this or don’t talk about it. But to dismiss it is absurd.

  37. ” . . . BMW m318 . . .”

    Petite bourgeoisie car, and at the moment they are hot for black Ford F-250s with extended cab for the kiddies.

  38. @Rollo – Simple test of your political literacy. Do you know what Gramsci’s Counter-Hegemony was all about, without looking it up on Google? If not, consider you have almost no idea what the fuck you are talking about when assessing the politics of radfems and sjws.

  39. @Glenn

    Your bit about power is spot on, Not sure about the rest. More red pill writers would really benefit from reading some Foucault (Discipline and Punish for anyone who is interested and wants to get a start). It is embarrassing to have a writer I really admire like Roosh start talking about the richest 1000 families who control the world. This is retarded conspiracy fake 9/11 thinking.

  40. @Lone Survivor

    roflmao – nice strawman video. It just shows how some women act when you flash a combination of game (oh yeah, the guy definitely has game) and a very very VERY identifiably expensive sports car at them. The driver may not be roided-up buff, but he’s not exactly doughy/pasty/creepy, either.

  41. @sjfrellc

    Yep, it’s perform or stagnate for us men. Has always been really, it’s just the fact we now rarely have to fight for our lives has tricked a lot of men into thinking they no longer have a burden of performance.

    The adaptation for these times is game, and the RP awareness to see and avoid the traps the FI sets for you.

    @Sun Wukong

    That’s a good video, though I think his transhumanist ‘solution’ is a little naive. Men aren’t going to be satisfied by the abstract thought of having reproduced. They want women, full stop. Anyways, I recognize that’s not the point you were trying to draw from it.

    The broad, societal ramifications of male scarcity dynamics is something I haven’t really seen hashed out in detail in the Manosphere. It often gets mentioned in passing, but I think we could really stand to have some people into sociology and/or history pick it apart more.

  42. “I think his transhumanist ‘solution’ is a little naive.”

    The transhumanists are not our friends, and as it happens they are currently under attack by agents of the FI.

  43. @Lone —

    Even with the downturn, the economy here in the us remains prosperous. Most educated women have jobs and many of them are well paid, especially in or bigger cities. It isn’t really comparable to Portugal. But in any case, if you took those Portuguese women and brought them here and have them well paying jobs, you would see them chasing Chad Thundercock who is shredded but broke up into the time they want to breed, which here is now around 30. It’s AF before then and then BB, with a reversion to AF again, for some of them, in the late 30s and early 40s. A Portuguese girl with a good job in nyc or LA or Miami would behave the same way.

  44. @Macbeth – Uhh, what do you not “know about the rest of it?” You guys have to get that I’m not speculating. The path to where we are today is paved with the radically egalitarian and collectivist ideas and politics of the left – whether you know it or not. Ignorance of this reality doesn’t make it any less true.

    Sadly, most Americans are products of an educational system that simply doesn’t teach the history of the left and its effects on our society in a clear way. It’s all watered down and the world is presented to young students through a Marxist lens of materialism and power. A recent college graduate friend of mine, a young man I’m trying to Red PIllize, told me, “yeah, my generation hasn’t had a president that we could trust, and we haven’t had one since Nixon”. Lol, I mean he has no idea what scumbags FDR, LBJ and JFK were (a bullet through the head is all that made JFK a “great” POTUS).

    But the facts are there for anyone who’s interested. If you doubt me, all one need do is read Engels 1872 essay The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State to have your mind opened. If you haven’t acquainted yourself with this, than you simply are not qualified to even begin discussing the politics of feminism and the FI. None.

    Fyi, it’s the sign of a pseudo-intellectual to draw equivalency between the left and right as they are quite different and need to be understood on their own merits.

  45. @Novaseeker

    Thanks for the insight.

    concerning the 30-40 years old woman trying to get back to AF, there is a catch… most AF are only interested in young women. So, they can’t compete, unless they have a good body.

    @BC

    Actually, your straw man argument is a strawman argument itself.

    Congratulations, you just proved my point: game is about money. A nice car and a sophisticated lifestyle is THE ultimate game. The rest is bullcrap. PUA, the dark triad and that crap… a blattant lie.

    I had a roomate who was what MTGOW jarheads call an “alpha”. former firefighter, former snowboard competitor and instructor, kitesurf instructor. He nailed everything that came across him.

    What was his catch?
    1. a house he rented in Tarifa (Spain), 5 minutes away from the beach
    2. access to kitesurfing material to teach his “laydees”
    3. his father being the owner of a major import-export in Miami, giving him the chance to fly to Miami on vacations every year.

    Yeah, come tell me AF-BB, I will tell you: “Bucks make you alpha, alpha gets you laid”. No money, no pussy, homey. WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS A MARKET FOR LUXURY SPORT CARS??

  46. @Lone,

    Let me explain again since your reading comprehension is compromised. This applies to anyone else who operates in similar vain.

    I saw your name at the top of your next post, and I scrolled down past it.

    I seem to recall an embedded Youtube video…

    You are not worth my time, do you understand that?

    You are commenting on a Red Pill site, without any inkling (real or faux) about the BASICS of it. How can your argue about something of which you don’t even have a basic grasp.

    I can’t take you seriously and I won’t. I am supposed to waste my time reading you when it is apparent you either have no idea what Red Pill is, or you are so invested against it that you can’t stand even reading up on it it so you can argue it?

    Nope.

    This…

    “Do you really think women women will privilege a guy with the body of Charles Atlas over an average joe with a BMW m318?”

    Told me all I need to know about you.

    My time is precious. (Pssst! That’s part of Red Pill thought too!) I am not going to waste it on you. There are commentators here who have insight, who know what they are talking about.

    Whatever your deal is, I know that you don’t.

    Have a nice day.

  47. @M3,

    I’m honored. Your blog was one of the ones I made it to in my long march through Red Pill. I very much appreciate putting your experience out there for others to learn and draw strength from.

    I particularly liked your articles on the impact that technology will have on women’s edge in the SMP.

    Thank you.

  48. Glenn – “Fyi, it’s the sign of a pseudo-intellectual to draw equivalency between the left and right as they are quite different and need to be understood on their own merits.”

    What blows my mind is that most people think National Socialism, Italian Fascism, and “fascism” generally are all products of the extreme right.

  49. @Badpainter – What amazes me is that so many people talk about “politics” in a dismissive, airy general way but have never bothered to actually study it carefully. My own journey started at age 26 when sitting in a night class (with a new baby and stay at home wife), listening to a socialist professor go on and on about the Prague Spring and trying to convince us that there really were good communists and that Marx had something of value to offer.

    My reaction? I read 7 of Marx’s original works, and I was so horrified by it I never gave the books back to the library, and instead threw them in the garbage. I’d rather pay the fines than leave such claptrap around for other minds to be polluted by. My attempts to actually argue any of it were rejected by the prof, and I started to really get how deep the rot goes.

    Example: I bet most folks on this thread could not describe the difference between Marxism, Socialism and Communism. I bet most people here who didn’t study sociology don’t get that Marx is presented to students in these classes as a groundbreaking social scientist who’s social analysis is amazing and important to understand.

    I could go on if you folks like. You see, I have history and the facts on my “side” in this conversation. Today’s Radfem/SJW is a product of leftist politics. The FI run amok is informed by leftist ideals and empowered by leftist politics. It’s not debatable.

  50. “WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS A MARKET FOR LUXURY SPORT CARS??”

    They’re a shitload of fun.

  51. “A simple twist of fate: Dr. Oz just got his show cancelled.”

    Hot damn!
    Wait…
    Are you Maypril fooling?

  52. Judging by many commenters, post, and twitter tweets though, good luck getting red pill awareness back to a point of being non-racial.
    Not remaining.

  53. @Water cannon boy
    What’s a better way to bring it up if at all?
    @Forge the Sky
    I used to head over to Colorado ciry by saint George Utah. It’s run by fundamental LDS folks. It was interesting to sit in an a house with 12 wives and one man to run it. I would think that it helps to learn about the red pill more.
    @Sun Wukong
    Check out the film Lake of Fire

  54. @Glenn, there are several studies published (I’m googling) where the experiment was to test how men and women would distribute money to peers.

    Men largely based that distribution on individual merit while women tended to distribute the funds as equally as they could, only differing by individual personal need. Why do you suppose that is?

    I understand the Ayn Rand section of the manosphere likes to equate feminism with socialism. I’m not saying I necessarily disagree with that, all I’m asking is why is it women would be psychologically predisposed to collectivism/socialism while men are more predisposed to merit based societal structure?

    I have my theories about why that is, but there is an evolved element to those predispositions that influences ideology. You may be right that a leftist influence has exploited that predilection in women, but that evolved predilection existed before we had any notions of left or right ideologies.

  55. As i mentioned about Karen Staughen (GWW) up above, i was talking about another video she did regarding comparing the transactional value of mens/womens reproductive value down to Lexus’s and chocolate bars.

    But heres a video with her in it that seems very related to the conversation we’re having (and also relates very well to the prior Protein World/double standards post)

    “The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval.”

  56. Rollo, I’ll just leave this here…

    You make my point, with a link to an article on how ’60’s nuns are going extinct so the pope finds it easy to ignore them. He examines what nun orders are growing and yawns…they are all conservative. Liberal nuns? Now that’s an oxymoron! E.g., sit by the edge of the river long enough, and you will see the body of your enemy floating by.

  57. This is a tangential question but how many of you have ever met another red pill man in person? At this point in my life, I’ve only seen them on the internet. I’d love to surround myself with fellow red pill guys, but I can’t find any. We don’t even have a good old school gym to hit in my part of the world. It’s just one after another “women are as tough as men” cross-fit gyms, or the kind that have more yoga and pilates classes than total plates in the free weight area. From my estimation, red pill guys are few and far between. Thank god for the internet, but damn I’d like to find some brothers of like mind a little closer to home.

  58. thedeclineandfall: @mdavid, In about 50 years Islam will surpass Christianity…Italy has a fertility rare of 1.42 children per woman…I don’t have much faith in the EU or European governments; like Rollo said the Feminine Imperative has co-opted them.

    You are missing the point. The West is finished. Done. Put a fork in it. EXTINCT. And femcentricism will die with it, merely a historical curiosity. It won’t be missed.

    The RCC first started abandoning Europe after the counter-Reformation when it was clear Europe had given up the Faith for protestantism, modernism, feminism, and most important, birth control. Remember, by 1965 (Vatican II) foreign bishops now outnumbered European bishops, and their focus is very different. They found Europe the joke that it is.

    You guys are still fighting the last war, one that the RCC abandoned years ago. The real future, where your focus should lie? Non-Europeans (Africans, Asians, South Americans), who still have healthy demographics. White people cannot survive without Catholicism, as we can see with the ongoing implosion of Western culture, basically made up of angry feminists versus manosphere types, neither of which are conducive to families and children. Examine your demographics.

  59. @Glenn

    “My reaction? I read 7 of Marx’s original works, and I was so horrified by it I never gave the books back to the library, and instead threw them in the garbage.”

    Hmmm.

    “Example: I bet most folks on this thread could not describe the difference between Marxism, Socialism and Communism.”

    In my defense, I tried to find out, but I went to the library and some books on Marxism were missing…

  60. Apologies if this has been asked (many times) before: Rollo, what does Mrs. Tomasi think of your blog? My wife thoroughly hates mine, except for the weird times when she nods and says, “Duh, everyone knows that.”

    I thought I’d heard Private Man had lost a GF due to his blog. Does Mrs. Tomasi have a similar visceral hate-reaction?

    (I don’t blame women for the reaction at all, I’m more just curious—since you have spent so much time honing your message and research, I thought it must to some extent be visible to your wife, etc.)

  61. @mdavid

    “And femcentricism will die with it, merely a historical curiosity. It won’t be missed.”

    This is where I give Rollo’s points some validity. This thinking right here is myopic in the extreme. Femcentrism will only die if every female on the planet dies, which of course would mean the end of our species. This is of course assuming the behaviors and tendencies that give rise to it are evolved tendencies just as we discuss them here.

    I think I see where Rollo is coming from. The politics are an emergent sociological phenomenon sitting perched on top of a series of biological, psychological, and social structures. To focus on the politics instead of what is discussed here normally (those underlying structures) is to believe things like “ONCE ALL THE LEFTISTS ARE DEAD IN THE RESET THIS’LL ALL BE FIXED”

    No. You can’t “fix” it so long as biology works as it does. #goodluckwiththat

  62. @Timber, Mrs. T reads TRM, and agrees with me on about 98% of what I go into. That last 2% is usually something she doesn’t understand because it male-specific.

    In fact we both watched Roosh’s “massacre” on the Dr. Oz show and she was appalled by the fat women. She said, “you really need to write a post about that” and I’m like, “way ahead of you.”

  63. Exactly. Hypergamy, female solipsism, our hunter/gatherer evolved mental firmware, men’s sexual motivators, et. al. exist in, and influence social structure, not the other way around.

  64. “The politics are an emergent sociological phenomenon sitting perched on top of a series of biological, psychological, and social structures.”

    The socialists did not invent female nature, they merely recognized and leveraged it.

  65. @Is this this thing on
    Yeah brother I hear you. I was thinking that this weekend is StyleCon in Atlanta where men share ideals on well having style. So in rugby we sometimes travel out of state to play other teams then go to a bar and drink with each other win it lose. The best part about it is bein their IN PERSON you can’t buffer a good hit and someone pointing out that you game sucks and you need serious improvements.
    What I am trying to tell you is
    @Sun Wukong is doing for audio what I could do for in person travel. However las vagas is the cheapest air port in america that being also the annual sevens tornament for rugby I think I could try to create a way to get something going but I would go with vegas because it’s cheap and not everyone has money to travel.
    It would be great to talk in person and hopefully bring up the most interesting topics of conversation in person. However not all of us can do that with family and school and life. But if 20 people wanna do it I’ll start building something now.
    @Soon to be a farther
    If your reading this I have been looking up some books for you and your situation.
    Letters to a young poet by Rilke because it will come you down on the situation.
    The war of art by Steven pressfield
    Perseverance in what you are dealing with.
    More to come but those two may calm down and help you remerber your not alone.
    With gratitude

  66. @Is This Thing On?

    I have met them. My father is one: his problem (one of many) is that he did not confront my mother to transmit his knowledge to me, added to the fact he was an absent father. I realized this a few weeks ago.

    I met another one in a Congress in Portugal, and another two who are brothers in a language course.

    The problem with the Red Pill is that several of the men who are in it get to become jarheads who only repeat “alpha”, “AMOG”, “AF-BB”, and crap like parrots. They were smart enough to wake from the blue pill, yet they are uncapable to fully metabolize the red pill and take it further.

    If you think carefully on the concept, “alpha” is an emasculated term, as the nature of a man is placed in terms of the capacity to fuck a woman. Instead, male value should be based in his achievements and masculinity.

    As long as The Red Pill men continue to think that a male’s “alphaness” depends on his relative value over a group (“AMOG”) or that a person is “alpha” because he fucks regularly, a central dogma of it will continue to be a flag.

    The unemployed male who has no job, no future and does nothing but fucking cuties is not an “alpha”, is simply an opportunist. The guy who strives for excellence, who progresses in life, who grows wealthier in all aspects of life (work, personal, physical, spiritual) every day, HE IS THE SO-CALLED “ALPHA”.

  67. @mdavid
    White people cannot survive without Catholicism, as we can see with the [b]ongoing implosion of Western culture, basically made up of angry feminists versus manosphere types, neither of which are conducive to families and children[/b]. Examine your demographics.

    THIS.

    There is still hope. 🙂

  68. @kfg, serious question: could it be that socialism, as the societal construct we recognize today, is an evolved extension of a feminine mindset?

    From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense; women being the most environmentally at-risk sex needed a social collective to support each other (tribalism), nurture young and cooperatively sustain each other.

    In fact women’s intrasexual social structure hasn’t changed much from that foundation:
    https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/21/your-attention-please/

    This might explain women’s collectivist propensity to distribute resources co-equally to peers and only more on a by-need basis. It helps support the survival and proliferation of the collective.

    Now, that’s really simplistic, but put that dynamic into a social order and it looks a lot like socialism.

  69. Instead, male value should be based in his achievements and masculinity.

    And we should love and be aroused by women for what’s on the inside and not their appearances, right?

  70. “What blows my mind is that most people think National Socialism, Italian Fascism, and “fascism” generally are all products of the extreme right.”

    That was an intentional bit of disinformation perpetuated by the Left which was part of the attempt (largely successful) to whitewash the crimes on Lenin, Stalin and the Bolsheviks, including collusion with Hitler until he attacked Russia.

    Reading about what went on in Soviet Russia, you would be hard pressed to find the differences between it and the Holocaust and associated Nazi atrocities, particularly when you focus on the human cost.

    Right down to what were effectively death trains to death camps/sites.

    The methods might have varied, but the body count sure as hell was similar. What many people don’t realize is that when all was said and done, the Soviet’s killed and oppressed more people alone.

    When you add in the body count from China, Vietnam, etc, etc, it makes Hitler look like frickin’ wannabe.

    They are all roasting in Hell.

  71. @Rollo: It may be simple, but I don’t believe it’s so simple as to be simplistic. It’s a solid basic model.

    And while being a member of the women’s circle simply required being a woman, men’s society has always been divided into guilds, by function. The hunters, warriors, shamans, etc. Membership has always been a function of performance, first by going through a rite of passage, and continuing to determine status within the guild. While the men’s guilds served a purpose to the wider society, they mainly took care of members, not men in general.

    This is the root of Jack Donovan defining masculinity as belonging to a gang.

    And to this day if you ask 1000 men what they do, 999 of them will tell you their job title, with which they identify as a person.

    Within the women’s circle the question is nonsensical. They’re women.

    I’m not an anthropologist, but I spent a night at a Holiday Inn with one. My only excuse is that I was silly enough to marry her. I’m not sure what my excuse for that is, other than being young and stupid.

  72. Fix..

    “That was an intentional bit of disinformation perpetuated by the Left which was part of the attempt (largely successful) to whitewash the crimes OF Lenin, Stalin and the Bolsheviks, including collusion with Hitler until he attacked Russia.”

  73. “Heheh,..I think Lone Survivor and Siirtyrion should get together for a drink sometime.”

    I know you meant that as a joke, but I think that is a great idea. Tyrion is one of the “Looks are All” guy, right?

    If so, why DON’T they have a published debate. Not saying here, but if they feel so firmly about their viewpoints, it would be interesting to see them hash it out publicly on say on WordPress blog. I would actually read it if it were limited to 3 total submissions per side, each limited to 1,000 words each.

  74. I’m old enough and New Yorker counter culture enough that I grew up in contact with a number of people who, at one time, had hailed Hitler as the socialist Jesus here to redeem mankind.

    There is a special place in the memory hole reserved for me.

  75. This feels like an excellent and poignant summation.

    @lone survivor
    “Women have an INITIAL attraction to men in good shape. However, it is only the kick-off; a good body without a good job and a good personal economy is disregarded.”

    Nope. I’m in my early thirties, broke, and bang many cute college aged girls, some even say they love me, cook for me etc.

    Musculature, decent or better face, and confidence are the credentials for female attraction, which is the coin of the realm for the younger, better ones, and for sexual charged/motivated relationships.

    Industriousness and fiscal prudence are the credentials to be used as a provider male, generally by a woman well past her prime. If you have enough of the former then the latter can work for you or against you… I’ll have to learn to navigate that by and by.

  76. “The socialists did not invent female nature, they merely recognized and leveraged it.”

    This is an important point.

    When you read the Soviet accounts in the Black Book of Communism, what you realize is how for all their rhetoric about Worker’s Rights and anti-exploitation was all bullshit.

    It was about power; pure and simple. They simply wrapped it up in ’cause’ that seemed noble, and quickly turned cruel, vicious and murderous.

    The very workers the Bolshevik’s were supposedly waging war for were exploited, oppressed and murdered when they failed to live up to the Revolution’s demands. They were given longer and longer hours and workweeks, less and less rations, and were put under increasingly draconian restrictions and rules.

    Remember; the ‘Revolution’ was launched to stop the exploitation of the worker’s by the rich and the nobility. It ended up treating them even worse; far worse.

    When you examine what was going on, everyone, peasants, workers, Bourgeois, were put under the lash to serve the party, and much of the oppression and murder was meant to solidify the party’s power to the point where NO ONE DARED QUESTIONED IT.

    Sound familiar.

    So, what the Bolsheviks did was appeal to the basic human desire for fairness and equality and justice, and also the baser instincts of envy, and used it to begin one of the worst atrocities in history. All of it was meant to give them power, which it most certainly did.

    So, why should today be any different?

    Why not pit men and against women, if, in the end, it grants you power?

    Why not exploit a natural female tendency toward FI if is serves your ends?

    This is what Social Justice Warriors of all stripes are about, whether certain individuals are bright enough to know it or not (some are puppets or useful idiots). That is why they are so blatantly hypocritical about things they supposedly care about whether race, sex, etc.

    They really don’t CARE about those issues themselves. They wish to be in a position by which they can control others. If you are of the ‘party’ (A true believer) you can get away with almost anything, despite the rhetoric.

    If you are not, facts and logic will not save you.

    It’s about power, the oldest prize of all.

  77. “Why not here? I’d publish it with a bit of my own interpreting.”

    I did not want to be presumptuous. It would be kind of like me inviting two drunks to duke it out on your front lawn.

  78. Sun Wukong, @mdavid, This thinking right here is myopic in the extreme. Femcentrism will only die if every female on the planet dies, which of course would mean the end of our species.

    Basic biology and evolution know this to be false. The future belongs to those who show up for it, and femcentric culture with its 1-2 kids are doomed. They will always lose to the women who get a man to support them with a big surplus.

    Examine the demographics of Turkey for a single geneation clean sweep of liberals via demographics, Muslim-style, but it applies here as well.

    Sheese, didn’t the USSR demonstrate in living color how men won’t support the State without the family or religion? If men cannot be convinced to support their own women and children even by brute force, those women will always lose out to women who CAN convince their men. Look at the Amish or the Duggers versus your modern Christian feminist. Or look at Muslims in Sweeden. Who’s going to win this game? It ain’t the femcentrics. It’s the cultures who find a way to best harness the male and female energy into children.

    The only reason feminists exist at all today is because we are at the end of the West. They are parasites on a dying corpse and are taking what they can from their pussy men before it’s over. Feminists will vanish like the dew in the sun, and you guys are talking like they are the Next Big Thing.

    All this is Evolution 101. I wish the mansophere would stop being so ethnocentric about the “power” of feminism. Just sit poolside and grab the popcorn.

  79. “What blows my mind is that most people think National Socialism, Italian Fascism, and “fascism” generally are all products of the extreme right.”

    They are. Fascism in NOT a Leftist phenomenon. Leftism orients around equality and while Fascism does have a belief in equality at the economic level to some extent, it does not believe in an all encompassing equality as the foundational social arrangement. Fascists were social conservatives on steroids, especially the Nazis. They don’t believe in a society without hierarchy; that’s what Leftists believe. Fascism is an authoritarian version of conservatism; usually in response to the decadence and chaos unleashed by liberal (left and right) forces.

  80. @Sun Wukong:

    I have called a world of heat down on my head by pointing out that if you want to see socialism you need only visit a monastery, and that Woody Guthrie became a socialist through the vector of being a Jesus Freak.

  81. WaterUnderTheFridge – “Industriousness and fiscal prudence are the credentials to be used as a provider male, generally by a woman well past her prime. If you have enough of the former then the latter can work for you or against you… I’ll have to learn to navigate that by and by.”

    Women value most highly those traits most valuable to their immediate need. In 2015 social/psychological needs trump material needs. I believe if women didn’t have the stability, and assurance of the social safety net (to include government, social, and cultural assurances of basic survival) their priority of needs would quickly change.

    I think there is a lot of subconscious tension/fear about MGTOW. Not a fear of the public movement, but a fear that men will enmasse abandon them to pursue lifestyles that don’t provide guaranteed longterm benefits to women. This is the underlying anxiety of the “where have all the good men gone” meme. Not only do the best men seem less interested in marriage and/or the provider role, so to the 2nd and 3rd best men are less enthused about it. This makes optimization of the Epiphany much more difficult. Difficult in the sense that optimization may now require the individual woman to do more than just show up.

    I also think this plays into the hysteria about rape culture. The fear is not so much about rape but about 2nd tier and lower men behaving as though they were top tier. Even if the average men lack polished game just having the same expectations and recognizing/accepting only the same burdens as the best AF men places greater burdens on women to accept responsibility for their choices.

    I see these underlying, not quite consciously understood fears expressed by the equaltarian/equalist fathers of girls who they fear won’t be able to “have it all” despite all fatherly support and advice to follow that path.

  82. The Extreme Left and Extreme Right do have something in common however, whatever their goals, interests and agenda are, they are nihilistic which means hateful and contemptuous.

  83. @Rollo – It’s not that I “may be right” – I’m correct about how the political puts all this on steroids and rips the limits off the FI. What your comment concedes is actually close to agreement with me, but then you spit up a throwaway line about the ‘Ayn Rand part of the manosphere saying feminism comes from socialism’. Unnecessary and in direction, quite misleading.

    I mean, have you read Engels essay that I cited or not? Do you understand the purpose of Gramsci’s Counter Hegemony that set many forces against in motion in the first place? The left has erected an epistemology of thought and political and moral philosophy that spans from Bentham through Bismarck to Stalin and Rawls. One of the reasons they laugh at conservatives is that they have no equivalent epistemology of thought. They often try to hijack the ideas of classical liberalism but it’s never really a fit. And the left abandoned the ideas of classical liberalism in the 19th century – the ideas that informed the founding of the U.S. and the rare liberty we enjoy.

    Of course there is a feminism that doesn’t emanate from Marxism, but to act as though it’s craziness to conflate the two is to ignore that say, Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency fame cites Marx regularly and is as anti-capitalist as she is feminist. In fact this is a common belief among activist feminists. Now it’s also true that communists and socialists long had beef with each other – anyone here want me to do 1000 words on that? None of that supports the “conflating socialism and feminism is kooky”. None of it.

    Of course, it’s all much more complex than that. Leftist ideology is actually incredibly complex, I think intentionally so. Let me just give you guys one example how leftist ideology permits that which we act stunned about here but they already figured out is morally pure.

    John Rawls, in his A Theory of Justice – the father of social justice theory – lays out what he calls a “lexical hierarchy of justice”. He posits that the most moral action to take at any given time should be to cure the worst injustice in the world first, regardless of the impact “fixing” that injustice imposes on lower ordered levels of justice. So, when women seek privileges, the fact that this axiomatically underprivileges men is okay. You see, they don’t have to deal with any injustice to men until they have sorted out the all justice issues of women since the women are the oppressed class. In fact, for men to complain about it, being a lower level concern of justice than they are currently focused on, means we are “punching down” and really are just exerting our privilege. That’s why they just look at you/us and grin – and I bet 99% of the readers here don’t even know this about Social Justice Theory. But hey, politics doesn’t matter, yawn…

    This is how “fairness” is defined under social justice (or really just one of the many ways, the others are just as riidiculous). But most conservatives and libertarians and MRAs and men in general cry out about the unfairness of feminism and don’t realize that unfairness to men is permitted by their ideology. So you will never get anywhere.

    And that is just one of many ways political ideology is weaponizing the FI. Again, I readily concede that the FI is always there and due to the innate sexual desire/power imbalances inherent between men and women that this will always be the case to some degree. I also agree that it gives rise to social developments including the political. In fact, it’s not an exaggeration that the socialist policies the U.S. govt has engaged in over the past 100 years would not have come into being without female political support. (Wait, you guys don’t know that the 92 u.s. federal govt welfare programs and the hundreds more run by state and localities are socialistic? All that means is you don’t know the meaning of the term).

    The insanity we are going through is due to the politics. Another proof of this is that the same dynamic of victimization and demonizing oppressors is consistent across all leftist causes. Racism, classism, gay issues, the environment – the pattern is exactly the same. And their alliance is quite powerful, in fact it’s the unifying theory of “social justice” that brings them all together. This is why Bill Clinton awarded John Rawls the Medal of Freedom in 1998, claiming he “saved democracy”.

    But hey, none of this has anything to do with why male-female intersexual relations have gone haywire, i’m just some Ayn Randian frothing at the mouth – giggling. Fyi, I have much admiration for Ayn Rand and her writing, as flawed as she and it were. I’m no Objectivist (barely half a philosophy anyway). What I think Rand most represented was a very male individualism and resilience and she explored these ideas deeply in her writing. While she was overly phlegmatic and ornate and winding, she was also brilliant. And not a person to be dismissed lightly. Again, that’s if you know who she is…

  84. “It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.”

    Well said! This should form part of the ‘manosphere imperative’….we should be formless, like water.
    The genie is out and is ready to play…no going back!

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