The Political is Personal

personal

Dalrock had an interesting post this morning – Black Fathers Don’t Matter – that mends nicely with a topic I was poking at in Obesity Culture:

While HHS (Health and Human Services) says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father, the Census says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father so long as mom says so.  Either way, fathers clearly can’t matter that much to the US government if distinguishing between the actual father and the man currently banging mom isn’t important.

There are other ways we can tell that fathers don’t matter (and therefore Black fathers don’t matter).  Under our current family system fathers are a sort of deputy parent. Just like a sheriff’s deputy serves at the pleasure of the sheriff, a father in an intact family serves at the pleasure of the mother.  Our entire family court structure is designed to facilitate the removal of the father should the mother decide she no longer wants him to be part of the family unit.  How important can fathers really be, when we have a massive and brutal bureaucracy devoted to helping mothers kick them out of the house?

What Dal is pointing out here has a far broader implication than simply how various governments define fatherhood. Many critics of my defining the Feminine Imperative like to think it’s a work in conspiracy. However, as I’ve explained before, there really is no need for a conspiracy; the Feminine Imperative has no centralized power base because feminine-primacy is so ensaturated into our collective social consciousness. It needs no centralization because feminine social primacy is literally part of women’s self-understanding – and by extension men’s understanding of women and what women expect of them.

Thus, on a Hypergamous social scale we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.

[…]

On more than a few occasions I’ve made the connection that what we see in a feminine-primary societal order is really a reflection of the female sexual strategy writ large. When we see a culture of obesity, a culture of body fat acceptance and a culture that presumes a natural evolved order of innate differences between the sexes should be trumped by self-impressions of female personal worth, we’re viewing a society beholden to the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamy.

A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.

I’m quoting this again here because, in light of Dalrock’s observations, it’s important for men to really understand that the power struggle women claim to be engaged in with men has already been settled on a meta, social scale. When a father is whomever a woman says he is, that’s a very powerful tool of social power leveraging.

  • A father is anyone a woman/mother claims he is
  • A father is legally bound to children he didn’t sire
  • A father is prevented at great legal and social effort from access to DNA testing of children he suspects aren’t his own
  • A father is legally responsible for the children resulting from his wife/girlfriend cuckolding him
  • A father is financially obligated to the support of children that he didn’t sire or he had no power in deciding to sire

These aren’t just examples relating to men’s lack of power in parenting; these are examples of determining the degree of control a man can exercise over the direction of his entire life. From Truth to Power:

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

The inherent insecurity that optimizing Hypergamy poses to women is so imperative, so all-consuming, to their psychological wellbeing that establishing complex social orders to facilitate that optimization were the first things women collectively constructed when they were (nominally) emancipated from men’s provisioning around the time of the sexual revolution.

Ensuring the optimization of women’s biologically prompted Hypergamy is literally the basis of our current social order. On a socio-political scale what we’re experiencing is legislation and cultural mandates that better facilitate Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

Driver had a good comment from the last post that illustrates another aspect of this feminine-power consolidation (emphasis mine):

“All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.”

It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big. You would think that these overweight women would get the memo by now but women (and more of them) keep getting bigger each year.

Feminine-Primary Social Doctrine is the Extension of Women’s Hypergamy

In a feminine-primary social order women presume, without an afterthought, that they are entitled to an attractive guy who works out and meets or exceeds women’s very stringent and static physical ideal. At the same time they expect an entitlement to absolute control of that attraction/arousal process regardless of, and to the exception of, any influence or difference in men’s control of that process. And they expect this without any thought to meriting it beyond appeals to a nebulous and inflated concept of their personal self-worth.

When we consider the present, ambiguous state of sexual consent laws we begin to understand the latent Hypergamous purpose those laws serve – absolute consolidation of women’s Hypergamous strategies as the motivator of any sexual encounter.

Furthermore, they expect an entitlement, either directly or indirectly, to the material support and provisioning of men for no other reason than they were born female.

Any deviation from this is on the part of  men is met with a cultural reprisal designed to convince or coerce men to accept their inevitable role in providing those entitlements to women. When those social contingencies fail, or become played out, the Feminine Imperative then appeals to legal legislation to mandate men’s compliance to what amounts to women’s social entitlement to optimized Hypergamy.

Legislating Hypergamy

From the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy this amounts to socially shaming men’s sexual imperatives while simultaneously empowering women’s short-term sexual strategies and fomenting men’s societal acceptance of it (i.e. the Sandberg plan for Open Hypergamy). This is further enforced from a legal perspective through consent laws and vague “anti-harassment” legislation to, ideally, optimize women’s hypergamous prospects.

When we read about instances of the conveniently fluid definitions of rape and harassment (not to mention the pseudo-victimhood of not being harassed), this then turns into proposed “rape-by fraud” legislation. Hypergamy wants absolute certainty, absolute veracity, that it will be secured in its optimization. And in an era when the only restraint on Hypergamy depends on an individual woman’s capacity for being self-aware of it, that Hypergamy necessitates men be held legally responsible for optimizing it.

Even the right for women to have safe and legal abortions finds its root in women’s want to mandate an insurance of their Hypergamous impulses. Nothing says “he wasn’t the right guy” like the unilateral power to abort a man’s genetic legacy in utero.

Feminist boilerplate would convince us that expanding definitions of rape is an effort to limit men’s control of women’s bodies – however, the latent purpose of expanding the definition is to consolidate on the insecurity all women experience with regard to optimizing Hypergamy.

The Beta Bucks insurance aspect of Hypergamy is evidenced by cultural expectations of male deference to wives’ authority in all decision making aspects of a marriage or relationship. And once again this expectation of deference is a grasping for assurances of control should a woman’s Hypergamous choosing of a man not meet her expectations. This is actualized covertly under the auspices of egalitarian equalism and the dubious presumptions of support and feminine identification on the part of men.

Beyond this there are of course the ubiquitous divorce, support, child support and domestic violence legalities that grossly favor women’s interests – which should be pointed out are rooted in exactly the same Hypergamous insecurity that her short-term Alpha Fucks mating strategies demand legislation for.

As Open Hypergamy becomes more institutionalized and made a societal norm by the Feminine Imperative, and as more men become Red Pill aware (by effort or consequences) because of it, the more necessary it will become for a feminine-primary social order to legislate and mandate men comply with it.

Going Mainstream

I’ve addressed this before, but I’ve never done politics on TRM. I will never do screeds on race or multi-culturalism or religion on TRM for a very good reason – it pollutes the message.

We now are seeing the results of this pollution as the manosphere is attacked from both sides of the political spectrum.

I’ve given this example before, but if you put Gretchen Carlson and Rachel Maddow on the same show and confronted them with red pill truths and Game-awareness they would eagerly close ranks, reserve their political differences and cooperatively fight for the Feminine Imperative.

This is the degree to which the Feminine Imperative has been saturated into our western social fabric. Catholic women in the Vatican may have very little in common with Mormon women in Utah, but let a Mormon woman insist the church alter its fundamental foundational articles of faith with regard to women in favor of a doctrine substituted by the Feminine Imperative and those disparate women have a common purpose.

That is the depth of the Feminine Imperative – that female primacy should rewrite articles of faith to prioritize women’s interests.

Religious doctrine, legal and political legislation, cultural norms, labor and economic issues; all are trumped by the Feminine Imperative. All have been subverted to defer to the Feminine Imperative while maintaining a default status of victimhood and oppression of women and women’s interests necessary to perpetuate that covert decentralized power base.

It doesn’t matter what world view, ideology or political stripe the opposition holds; men, masculinity and anything contrary to the feminine-primary social narrative will always be a common enemy of the Feminine Imperative, and both liberal and conservative will climb over one another to throw the first punch if it means defending women and defending the feminine social order by proxy.

This is why anything even marginally pro-masculine is vilified in mainstream society. Anything pro-masculine is always an easy, preferred target because it’s so hated, so incorrect, in a feminine-primary context that it can unite people of hostilely opposed political and ideological differences.

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

This is what scares the shit out of critics who attempt to define, contain and compartmentalize the manosphere / Red Pill awareness; it’s bigger than social, racial, political or religious strictures can contain. It crosses all of those constructs just as the Feminine Imperative has co-opted all of those cultural constructs. The feminized infrastructure of the MSM that’s just beginning to take the manosphere seriously enough to be critical are discovering this and trying to put the genie back into a bottle defined by their feminine-primary conditioning.

The idea that one of their own, whether in a liberal or conservative context, is genuinely Red Pill aware and educating others of that awareness is unnerving for the Feminine Imperative that’s already established strong footholds in either ideology.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Excalibur
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@Blaximus: My nephews’ high school lacrosse team recently played a game wearing pretty pink jerseys for breast cancer awareness. Fuck. I doubt this made any of the cheerleaders, or any of the hot, young female teachers, wet. Teaching young boys masculinity is going to be an uphill battle. Manliness traits are not encouraged or valued. Young boys, especially those with single mothers, are at a loss. What happened to the strong, masculine fathers like in the shows “Leave it to Beaver” and “Father Knows Best”? Where are the strong male role models that our society needs? I need to remember… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Excalibur

Where are the strong male role models that our society needs?

Last one I remember seeing was Michael Landon’s character in Little House on the Prairie. Every father after that has been a rehash of Homer Simpson.

rugby11ljh
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@excalibur
“Teaching young boys masculinity is going to be an uphill battle. Manliness traits are not encouraged or valued. ”

Ever since I was born I have been yelled at forceven attempting to mention that.

Excalibur
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“PS: Women are disinclined to marry already. They still like the formality of the princess wedding, but the idea of marriage as an end goal doesn’t start to sink in until they reach their late 20’s to early 30’s. That’s not as much a problem as the dick count they amass by that time warps their brains ( among other anatomical parts ) making them shitty wives and mothers.” It amazes me that many women do not understand that they have a shelf-life. These women aren’t going to have the same appeal to men at 30+, that they did at… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Excalibur ” Feminism has taught women that they can live and manage their lives like men, but they cannot.” Exactly. Women can ” have it all “. Women should expect men to ” love them for who they are inside “. It’s hard for a 19 year old to see their shelf lives with all the dick being waved in their faces, and all of the constant complements and adulation. Feminism forces civilized society to bend over for women. It cannot end well this way. Call me an optimist, but I still hold out hope that everything won’t end… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Had an argument with a friend today. A woman who was a single mom had claimed “Well my mother was a single mother too and I turned out fine”, and I replied to her that the fact that she had turned out as a single mother as well was by definition not a “fine” result. He (yes he) told me I was being overly harsh in judging single mothers that way. My family with an abusive single mother who divorced my abusive father: I am a beta loser clinically diagnosed as a manic depressive struggling to recover at 38 years… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Sun

Correct. There is always a reason.

Let me tell you something though, with all that you’ve gone through, you have figured it out. You have broken those past limitations for the better part. The first step in resolving any problem is always IDENTIFYING what the problem is.

In today’s society, single mothers approach Sainthood. There will be no questioning of single motherhood lest ye be laid waste.

The damage is reversible.

Badpainter
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And this is why we are having these conversations (courtesy of Dalrock’s comments section):

http://cmcforum.com/opinion/04302015-why-yes-can-mean-no

That’s right “yes” might mean “no”. There is a policy implication in this nonsense unltimtely backed by an armed cop. This stupid, stupid idea is why politics matter, and why the ‘sphere can’t simply wave it away.

TheLastCoyote
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Talk about the political being personal…a Kentucky gubernatorial candidate is being accused by his ex-girlfriend (from college, 20+ years ago) of being physically abusive to her back then & of driving her to a clinic to have an abortion. There’s just one teensy-weensy problem…she has not provided one shred of proof to back up her allegations.

Fredrick Welfare
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By claiming that single mothers are the results of socialization and not perhaps a stand taken because of socialization is to completely miss what has been happening in the West for millenia. Marriage and family is a lousy arrangement. Love or attraction is not enough. The only possible reason for acclaiming it is because you happened into parents who had great personalities and some degree of wealth. If your parents did not have a great personality, then you got fucked by their shitty beliefs and attitudes about raising kids and communicating generally. You can reflect on how you were disciplined… Read more »

Fredrick Welfare
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They are taking hallucinogens, called anger.

Fredrick Welfare
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That’s what happens when you fail to raise the seat!

Badpainter
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Frederick Welfare – “Other cultures have solutions to the resources problem for youth and it involves the mother having more than one other parent to help. Single mothers have figured something out.”

Examples please.

Fredrick Welfare
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Africans

Blaximus
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Africa is a continent.

Fredrick Welfare
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Boil it down: consent is not a preliminary to the act, it is an evaluation after the fact. Consent must be achieved before and as a result.

Badpainter
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@ Frederick Welfare

What a great example: mud huts, dirty water, corrupt governments, AIDS, civil war, a functioning real rape culture, and starvation. Where do we sign up?

Sun Wukong
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@Badpainter In my mind, if you’re concerned with the politics of the situation go join the MRAs. You’re going to get laughed at, ridiculed, ignored, and snubbed but you can go try to deal with the politics. It’s a lost battle at this point, hence the reason I don’t particularly care about it. My concern with the politics side is strictly which laws affect me. When I no longer consider the legal climate tenable, I’ll leave. YMY is pretty much the breaking point. If that becomes the law (or precedent) of the land outside of college campuses, I’ll make for… Read more »

Fredrick Welfare
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Female strategies for acquiring resources of all kinds (consider all of the forms of capital) around the globe which are non-western include polyandrous relationships where the mother has several male friends including the father(s) of the child. In almost every non-western culture the woman works outside, not confined to household unpaid labor which as you know has been under the gun for some 50 years. From a cultural and biological perspective, this mode of human interrelatedness maximizes resources for the offspring. To get anything similar in the West, serial monogamy (divorce and remarriage) or extramarital relationships must be engaged. How… Read more »

Fredrick Welfare
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Reducing entire societies to the lowest class, eh. All societies have a division of labor and a class hierarchy. Do your homework.

Badpainter
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Sun Wukong,

I don’t disagree.

Further I’d hate to see this site become a partisan politcal shittorm. BUT I do think some political discussion is of value when looking at how Rollo’s foundational teachings are made manifest in society and how they influence politics. So when YMY comes up for discussion it’s not talking about political process that matters but how to work with the new reality beyond the political.

Glenn
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@RedBaron – Please, spare us the BarBar pseudo-intellectual horseshit. Between his real hatred of women, his imbecilic reliance on biological determinism and his mostly speculative hyperbole on our social condition, particularly when he discusses economics, it’s quite clear that he’s about half as smart as he thinks he is. He also fucks women. But seriously, let’s set aside that jackwad with the good microphone (you’ll notice that smart YouTubers invest in a good mic, it’s makes a huge difference in how you perceive them) and just look at what he’s positing. You see, he’s actually fallen into a Blue Pill,… Read more »

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Fred Welfare – “Boil it down: consent is not a preliminary to the act, it is an evaluation after the fact. Consent must be achieved before and as a result.”

Between this and your deep concern for women maximizing resources at all costs (civilization) I can only assume you’re a feminist.

stuttie
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Nice post Glenn. “Female attraction is weird and sometimes in some circumstances, a lower value guy will get a shot with a hottie.” Yup, that’s “pre-selection”. You will almost always get more attention and indicators of interest when you are with another women. @ Lonestar, MYG & Red Barron I’m not against prostitutes at all. I think they are a necessary part of society. It’s not called the ‘oldest profession’ for nothing. In fact, if it wasn’t for pro’s there would probably be a lot more mass shootings, suicides and rapes. Pro’s are there for the incel. The beta. Two… Read more »

Glenn
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Here’s a postcard from the edge. A POLITICAL philosopher commenting on how the family is the engine of inequality in society. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058 Take the time and read it. And oh yeah, keep in mind this is political and social commentary. Tell me, guys, do you think such a thought arises purely from the FI? In part? How much? You see how gooey all this gets when you rely on a new term I just coined, “FI determinism”? I will give a short analysis for you to consider on the holes in this incredibly vapid man’s thinking. As I’ve said elsewhere,… Read more »

Fredrick Welfare
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Firstly, it is a logical issue, and then it is a legal issue. Ideology is down some on the list of priorities.

rugby11ljh
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@blaximus
“I’m convinced they’d love manhood the way it was meant to be.”

That would be my son talking to me at my age.

@Sun Wukong
Two new seasons of the Simpson coming soon….
I am tryin to get the fuck out of the way. Just keep getting pulled back by the word “Love”

rugby11ljh
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@stuttie
“You see, I think regular use of pro’s is for guys that are just scared & lazy. Scared of rejection when approaching women, and, too lazy to stay in some form of shape.”

That used to describe me to the tee…

Fredrick Welfare
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Consent is a legal and logical concept, involves ideas like implication and entailment. You thought you had consent at time 1 but did not have it at time 2, wtf.
How many people you run into that you think are feminists?

Blaximus
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@ stuttie The money thing is a real sore spot for me. I guess it’s a pet peeve of sorts. Now, we all need money to live and to progress in American life. That’s a given. But when guys start thinking that the power money holds over some people is a GOOD thing, that speaks to character in my mind. Drug dealers think like that. Wall Street guys that drain pension funds and wreck housing markets think like that. I too don’t have a problem with prostitutes as a whole ( or Hole ). But as you state, they are… Read more »

Blaximus
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Thinking back, women are indeed fickle as hell. Rollo is onto some good stuff…menstruation is your friend.

Sometimes, you never really know when a chick is just gonna randomly screw you. Any chick.

rugby11ljh
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@blaximus
“And they might even make you a sandwich afterwards.”
Well that sure as hell happen to me than I went to a bathtub with her.
Didn’t realize she was who she was because I didn’t pay her anything
I still miss her lips…

Badpainter
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“Consent is a legal and logical concept…”

And that’s all that matters.

rugby11ljh
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@blaximus
“Sometimes, you never really know when a chick is just gonna randomly screw you. Any chick.”
What a wonderful fucked up truth.

Fredrick Welfare
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You are either sarcastic or embracing a leftist model of consent and force. Communicative agreement or reason involves securing that agreement before the deal, during the deal, and after the deal. Basic Contract Law 101. Of course, there are instances of fraud and deceit, humans are what they are, generally however, consent is a function of satisfaction not of the appearance of wilingness. I have raised a point that is historical and cultural, not ideological. The facts are what they are, you can make any conclusion you want but if you want to understand what is going on today, that… Read more »

Blaximus
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” So, Pro’s as a way of life? Nah. Better options. There are a lot of sluts out there who will do anything you want for free. And they might even make you a sandwich afterwards.” Clarification. When I say ” sluts ” I don’t mean the brazen half naked chick that everybody sees as a slut. I’m talking about the cute, quiet chick who is probably…a 7 or 8…maybe. Most likely a soft 7. The ones that have that little fire burning inside and on the right day, they’re ready to give it up anyway you want it. They’re… Read more »

TheRedBaron
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@Glenn – thank you for not indulging in ad-hominems, gynocentric shaming tactics, appeals to female validation, burning strawmen and naturalistic fallacies. MGTOW Celibacy. Bar Bar’s investigation of gynocentrism, male disposability, antiquated traditions (The expt. where monkeys were sprayed with cold water), male mother need (Rhesus monkey with wooden mother expt.), the yoking of male utility to the point that men are shat out of the system in even tradcon cultures are all groundbreaking and the analysis is squarely missing in the tradcon/PUA section of the manosphere which is mainly focused on getting your dick wet and spinning fairy tales about… Read more »

Badpainter
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“Communicative agreement or reason involves securing that agreement before the deal, during the deal, and after the deal.”

Bullshit.

Consent to an act that cannot be reversed cannot be held to a post facto withdrawal of consent that results in criminal charges. You can’t get a refund at the theatre if the movie sucks. Something’s you just have to suck up and move on from.

sjfrellc
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“Thinking back, women are indeed fickle as hell. Rollo is onto some good stuff…menstruation is your friend. Sometimes, you never really know when a chick is just gonna randomly screw you. Any chick.” Rollo gets my thanks of the the day. Red pill awareness an a bag of skittles, an anniversary card from Target and some Costco flowers got me a good lay tonight. I thought a good lack of beta tell was when my she initiated when she was ovulating. Menstruation game indeed. But when she says sure thing at the end of the luteal phase, Red pill game… Read more »

TheRedBaron
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@stuttie – we will have to agree to disagree on prostitutes and money for the time being, for you to see my perspective it will require a paradigm shift in thinking involving getting rid of gynocentric hardwired jargon like ‘loser’, ‘lazy’ etc. Imagine telling someone predisposed to alcohol when he was a kid that the warm and fuzzy feelings alcohol creates are magical instead of telling him it is just a drug. This is what is told to young boys about women. In Eastern cultures/BP worldview this is ‘LTR’, ‘Marriage’ and ‘Soul Mates’. In the US they get young boys… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Man Table question: how many folks would we have available to talk this Sunday afternoon vs. next? I remember Glenn wanted to show up but was going to be busy this weekend, so wanted to see if we could move to next to give him a chance to join but still get some other guys in. This time we’re gonna try to record and see how the format works and what we need to tweak.

stuttie
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How is saying someone is a ‘loser’ in the SMP (he would be the first to admit it too) and ‘lazy’ for not staying in good shape gynocentric? I don’t think I need a paradigm shift in thinking – I believe that happened when I took the red pill which is how I roll now. Like I said, I’m not against prostitution, or the MGTOW movement (in fact some of the stuff on the no-ma’am site is great to read). There was a commentor (Vulpine) from Rollo’s The Isolationists post who had a good explanation of MGTOW. I stand by… Read more »

TheRedBaron
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@stuttie – thanks for claryfing. I remember the post you are referring to now. Someone even said that there is this ‘Universal Experience Fallacy’ – wher e one thinks that if he likes skiing and works hours practicing it everyone else should like it as well and if they don’t they are just lazy or have given up on skiing unlike him. Everyone has different interests and is into different type of women. The same seems to be true for preference for sexual experience or lack of thereof for the celibate types. I have even seen in MGTOW communities the… Read more »

Fredrick Welfare
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I won’t belabor the point and won’t say it again, but you are absolutely wrong and will not win in court. Consent, consensuality, consensus must be maintained through a transaction or the deal is fraudulent. Good luck with the judge.

Badpainter
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“Consent, consensuality, consensus must be maintained through a transaction or the deal is fraudulent.”

I’ll agree to that, and nice job moving the goal posts.

BUT after the act/deal/transaction is complete consent cannot be retroactively withdrawn. So the next day, next week, 20 years later, bad feels don’t, after the fact, constitute bad faith on the part of the other party who has no obligation to continue maintain consent.

Mad Yale Grad
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Stuttie, “Keep telling yourself hookers are the answer”

Hookers or escorts ARE the answer for some men. Self-improvement, mentorship and game can work for plenty of men, but there is a non-trivial amount of men for whom those things won’t work to any significant degree because they have serious mental, emotional or even physical issues.

Mad Yale Grad
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Lone Survivor, “Game by itself is a contradiction, it is an attempt of people with no resources, no money and nothing to offer to be at the same level of people who live exciting and fulfilling lives. In other words, PUA are themselves the “betas” they point their fingers at.” – Bar Bar elaborates on that in his video and to some extent its true. Of course commenters here will protest because their idea of game is self-improvement along the lines of an Anthony Robbins’ “Unleash the Giant Within” seminar where one is “trained” in “becoming your best self”, but… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Blaximus,

“What I’m talking about is the scenario of the husband losing his employment ( and maybe running out of unemployment benefits. There was a time when unemployment bennies did not go on for years ) and the family deciding that they needed some help. If the man was present in the home, help would not be forthcoming.”

Please refer me to a documentary or a study regarding this. Thanks.

Mad Yale Grad
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Frederick Welfare, You are correct. The reason why African, South Asian and East Asian immigrants are “model minorities” is precisely because of their family cultures. Many of them grow up in multi-generational joint family homes that focus on education and discipline. They socialize with their elderly and very young family members, not unrelated “peers”. This type of family oriented culture provides a great foundation for them. We don’t have that in the US since the isolated “nuclear family” became the ideal and norm during the industrialization era. In such a broken scenario unrelated peers take the place of your grandparents,… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Stuttie, “I’m not against prostitutes at all. I think they are a necessary part of society. It’s not called the ‘oldest profession’ for nothing. In fact, if it wasn’t for pro’s there would probably be a lot more mass shootings, suicides and rapes. Pro’s are there for the incel. The beta.” – Nope. Girlfriends and wives are there for the beta. Prostitutes are there for the omega. Guys so down and out, mentally off, whatever, that they can’t get gf’s and wives. Sometimes you’ll find ballers, celebs, alphas utilizing high end escorts. “You see, I think regular use of pro’s… Read more »

stuttie
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@ MYG – I agree with you. Read my post again. http://therationalmale.com/2015/04/30/the-political-is-personal/comment-page-6/#comment-99736 “Also this numbers game of cold approaching is something that a great number of people just cannot do. Walking up and talking to complete strangers like the Hare Krishnas do in airports? Yeah, no. That is totally unnatural for everyone who is not an extreme extrovert and something a great many people have issues with and even find ethically questionable.” Can you explain ‘ethically questionable’ in this context? It’s interesting you you the analogy of the Hare Krishnas. The Hare Krishnas started using flower-giving as gestures to play… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“Can you explain ‘ethically questionable’ in this context?” Bothering someone, invading their personal space. “It’s interesting you you the analogy of the Hare Krishnas. The Hare Krishnas started using flower-giving as gestures to play on peoples feelings of reciprocity. And that one thing turned them from an almost broke charity into a multi million dollar charity.” I don’t recall flowers but they are still in airports and at a number of festivals approaching people with their books/literature and asking for donations. They also sell stickers at football games. One of my best friends from high school joined them. While we… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Glenn

May 5th, 2015 at 9:27 pm

Here’s a postcard from the edge. A POLITICAL philosopher commenting on how the family is the engine of inequality in society. http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/new-family-values/6437058

Take the time and read it.
_______________________

I did. The craziest thing I’ve read this month, and that’s saying something considering the stuff I read online.

M Simon
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Glenn, The left has made a HUGE tactical error in opposing Prohibition and the government power behind it. They thereby call into question ALL government power. Not only that, Prohibition is in the main used to oppress men. And more specifically poor men and young men and men of color. “Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we… Read more »

M Simon
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I leave this on anti-Prohibition leftist sites to good effect:

Every tax, every regulation comes with it an army of bureaucrats and behind that an army (with guns) of enforcers.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Liz
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“Blaximus, “What I’m talking about is the scenario of the husband losing his employment ( and maybe running out of unemployment benefits. There was a time when unemployment bennies did not go on for years ) and the family deciding that they needed some help. If the man was present in the home, help would not be forthcoming.” Please refer me to a documentary or a study regarding this. Thanks.” Cohabitation and Marriage Rules in State TANF Programs: http://www.aspe.hhs.gov/hsp/09/CohabitationMarriageRules/index.shtml “Our surveys show that the incentives of TANF-eligible women with children to cohabit or marry are affected by TANF program rules.… Read more »

Lone Survivor
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@Stuttie “I stand by my comment that Men who need pro’s are just scared of being rejected (understandable) and too lazy to run/lift/box/etc”. Well, that is not an universal truth. Yes, some guys use prostitutes as an escape from their fear to ask a girl out. and there are others (like me) who used to go out alone, do cold approach for a year and simply got tired of trying just for a one-night hookup. From a certain age on, men go to prostitutes simply because time is more limiting as commodity than money. If you don’t work, then it… Read more »

Lone Survivor
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@TheRedBaron

“Someone even said that there is this ‘Universal Experience Fallacy’ – wher e one thinks that if he likes skiing and works hours practicing it everyone else should like it as well and if they don’t they are just lazy or have given up on skiing unlike him. Everyone has different interests and is into different type of women. The same seems to be true for preference for sexual experience or lack of thereof for the celibate types”.

This.-

Liz
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Fredrick Welfare: “Boil it down: consent is not a preliminary to the act, it is an evaluation after the fact. Consent must be achieved before and as a result. (snip) “Communicative agreement or reason involves securing that agreement before the deal, during the deal, and after the deal. Basic Contract Law 101. Of course, there are instances of fraud and deceit, humans are what they are, generally however, consent is a function of satisfaction not of the appearance of wilingness.” (snip) I won’t belabor the point and won’t say it again, but you are absolutely wrong and will not win… Read more »

Glenn
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@Sun Re; Your question about how understand how left vs right helps men is besides the point. I’m talking about the truth versus the abstract, fantasy narrative presented about politics in these conversations. Tell me, how does seeing the FI as deterministic of the political help men? And I’ve been teaching this whole thread, explaining the many problems with Rollo’s ideas about politics and citing many, many facts that support my contention as to how crucial the political is to where we find ourselves now – with almost no substantive engagement in return. Why? Because most westerners are never taught… Read more »

GhostOfJefferson
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I find no small amount of humor in people arguing with the Eliot Rogers troll Lone Survivor. Knee slappingly funny really. I mean, what the fuck does he know about game, let alone be qualified to denigrate it? The man can’t get laid if he doesn’t offer money up front to a whore on the side of the road, fer Chrissake. There’s nothing wrong with going to a whore, but that doesn’t make his advice on women or his criticism of men who can get women without having to solicit their services on Craig’s List relevant.. Arguing with him about… Read more »

stuttie
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@ ghost – exactly.

Fredrick Welfare
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The multi-generational home however was not strictly a combination of lineages, many other people could also be found in these small “villages.” What I am trying to describe is a possible underlying basis for the reaction to the nuclear family form by the head of household or single-parent family form. A cultural-biological perspective is called for. Mothers are concerned about resources for themselves and the offspring. The nuclear family is an arrangement where two parents manage resource acquisition which includes financial capital, social capital (acceptance), cultural capital (education, training, skillset), etc… Clearly, the nuclear family form is too often dysfunctional… Read more »

M Simon
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Glenn May 6th, 2015 at 7:45 am I’m not so well versed in the politics as you and a lot of what I used to know I have forgotten. I have other interests. But you are quite correct in all you lay out. I came at it from the other end. Living it. Being a “revolutionary.” My former self (of 40 years ago ) disgusts me. But the plan was all laid out. SJWs were manufactured en mass. And so here we are. And the most damaging of the efforts is something that neither right nor left care to contemplate.… Read more »

stuttie
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@ Rollo – interesting how this thread has gone from Political is Personal and ends up more ‘Game Works’… @ lone “Well, that is not an universal truth. Yes, some guys use prostitutes as an escape from their fear to ask a girl out. and there are others (like me) who used to go out alone, do cold approach for a year and simply got tired of trying just for a one-night hookup. I’ll bet you didn’t really get tired. I’ll push all-in that you tried a few awkward cold approaches and simply gave up if you didn’t get anywhere.… Read more »

M Simon
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Fredrick Welfare
May 6th, 2015 at 8:03 am

Mixing up the gene pool has some advantage over inbreeding. Social structure is not one of them.

M Simon
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stuttie
May 6th, 2015 at 8:25 am

Yes. The two week plates. The six months plates. Six months is the usual breaking point – she will only go beyond that if she is very determined on you. Rare. You have to go through a lot of them to find that one. And she will be loathe to admit it. It greatly reduces her power.

Fredrick Welfare
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snippity snap snippity snap I am not talking about a grandfather clause. Contract 101 means simply two people agree that one will do X for the other and the other will doY in exchange. If either reneges, the contract can be enforced for damages! Snip on over to dating, courting and sexual actions. Person A gets consent to do an action to the body of person B = consent. Person B claims that Person A did not comply with the consensual agreement and violated her/him. Go to court, and the judge will say, today, that Person A is wrong because… Read more »

Lone Survivor
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@GhostOfJefferson

Hey, buddy… don’t get mad at me. I am just a messenger.

On the contrary, you should be happy that there is one guy wandering around who has sex with prostitutes and cannot compete with your game and PUA skills.

stuttie
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@ ghost The problem with the wholesale ignoring and dismissing of Game denialists such as Lonestar is that if one person sets up camp in a unique & highly respected RP blog such as TRM, then some newbies may get discombobulated about RP truths. Most newbs will probably land on Rollo’s home page, read one or tow posts and start mouthing off, not having bothered to read year 1-3 or any archives. As frustrating as it is, we should always argue/debate/take down anyone trying to pull the crabs back in the barrel; and not let them steer the narrative in… Read more »

Lone Survivor
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I find weird that aside from the people who share their opinion with me and Rollo (who is standing in the other side of the fence, but has been centered and polite), all the supposedly alpha-winning-PUA-superdupermastersofpussy have ran wild on my opinions.

This kind of puts their worth and expertise in doubt.

If I discovered the ultimate formula to bang any pussy I wanted, I would not reveal it to anyone. On the contrary, I would keep it as a secret.

Liz
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“Contract 101 means simply two people agree that one will do X for the other and the other will doY in exchange. If either reneges, the contract can be enforced for damages! Snip on over to dating, courting and sexual actions. Person A gets consent to do an action to the body of person B = consent. Person B claims that Person A did not comply with the consensual agreement and violated her/him. Go to court, and the judge will say, today, that Person A is wrong because Person B did not like what was done, details details details, and… Read more »

M Simon
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TRB,

In the US they get young boys addicted to sex

No “getting” required. All it takes is a lot of testosterone. I have the good fortune/curse of coming from a high testosterone family. It keeps you interested in sex for a very long time. Obsessed.

You can shut it down. (some) Become a Beta. Be a loser. That lowers it. There are studies.

Fredrick Welfare
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Tis true, but rare is the culture that permits diversity and does not practice exogamy. As you have experienced, social disapproval, noncooperation, rejection or non-acceptance is not entirely political, but it is that too, it is also biological and historical. The preferred matings are always very close and this causes the inbreeding or genetic problem. First cousin marriages is a form of inbreeding that may lower intelligence (however, intelligence is modified by financial capital also). Certainly any form of incest between immediate family is inbreeding, but several myths (think religion) advance sexual relationships between immediate kin – is there a… Read more »

Glenn
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@ M. Simon – Thanks. And leftists almost never argue with me about my account of the political history as they know I’m correct. In fact, educated right wingers don’t either. The only arguments I get are from people “who don’t do politics” or who are “sick and tired of the left-right divide” or who say “both sides are evil”. These kind of positions are actually cop outs. Even worse – again something you guys don’t even begin to understand – such a position empowers the left. You see they know that what they are really in a battle to… Read more »

M Simon
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Lone Survivor
May 6th, 2015 at 8:49 am

You have the wrong conception of Game. It doesn’t give you access to any woman you want (she might be a lesbian). It gives you access to some women. As opposed to none. Which is why teaching game is not much of a loss. You can’t get them all. She might prefer short guys.

Fredrick Welfare
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I recognize your disbelief. But, the definition of the sexual scene involves an ethical awareness. Consent is like a contract, it is not like a license. You want to believe that one an agreement is formed, you can do whatever you want without consequences, but no businessman would agree to that line of conduct. Firstly, the contract is enforceable (if it is in ink you must do it, clear) and secondly a contract that is not complied with is actionable. Same with consent and you can see the effects of this in all of those family court cases where so-and-so… Read more »

M Simon
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Glenn
May 6th, 2015 at 9:01 am

You got the wrong McCarthy (you want Joseph). But otherwise spot on.

Fredrick Welfare
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HAHAHAHAHA McCarthy claimed that the biggest spy in the government was Owen Lattimore who was found not guilty. Read his Ordeal by Slander. McCarthy was nuts.

stuttie
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@ M Simon – yeah, my plates spin on average 3-6 months. I simply get bored/sick of their presence, pussy or personality (the PPP effect? lol). It’s frickin ‘work’ pretending to enjoy a women’s company when you really only fleetingly enjoy her wet hole/s. Maybe the same way a whore pretends to enjoy a John??

The routine/mundane/predictable bang just doesn’t do it for me anymore. I like being hungry and having to hunt; and I get a certain satisfaction from conquering new pussy, even if it is a tag and release.

M Simon
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Glenn,

I’m kind of a meme guy myself. Short pithy phases that encapsulate a way of thinking. Thus my:

Every tax, every regulation comes with it an army of bureaucrats and behind that an army (with guns) of enforcers.

Mentioned up thread. I have lots of others. I think that way. In part because my typing is one handed. I like expressing myself in as few keystrokes as possible

Jeremy
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@Lone Survivor If I discovered the ultimate formula to bang any pussy I wanted, I would not reveal it to anyone. On the contrary, I would keep it as a secret. That is what is known as a hasty generalization fallacy. While game websites and blogs may use phrases that might infer substantial success with women, only a fool would actually believe that game is about some “ultimate formula to bang any pussy.” Even women cannot legitimately bang any man they want (nor would they), and they have substantial eons of evolution on their side. You also say that you… Read more »

M Simon
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Fredrick Welfare
May 6th, 2015 at 9:07 am

Not guilty is not the same as not true. All not guilty says is not enough evidence. Now in that particular case it may be that an error was made. But overall Joe was correct. As the Soviet archives showed.

Bromeo
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My boy Glenn going off! lol, I have limited knowledge of the politics being discussed but some of your points are pretty clear.

Liz
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“I recognize your disbelief. But, the definition of the sexual scene involves an ethical awareness. Consent is like a contract, it is not like a license. You want to believe that one an agreement is formed, you can do whatever you want without consequences, but no businessman would agree to that line of conduct. Firstly, the contract is enforceable (if it is in ink you must do it, clear) and secondly a contract that is not complied with is actionable. Same with consent and you can see the effects of this in all of those family court cases where so-and-so… Read more »

Liz
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“You’re mixing civilian law with criminal law. They aren’t the same.”

Excuse me, that should have been “you’re mixing CIVIL (not civilian) law with criminal law”.

M Simon
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Fredrick Welfare May 6th, 2015 at 9:07 am Even setting aside all questions of spying, Lattimore had a quite public paper trail as a defender of the Stalin purge trials. In an infamous statement made in 1938, the expert on China, Mongolia, and Turkestan declared that the judicial massacres in Moscow “sound like democracy to me” Thus, it appeared to Lattimore that the arrest, beating, drugging, forced confessions, and summary executions of thousands of Soviet political and military leaders demonstrated that the political elite could be held accountable by their subjects. As pointed out not long ago by the historian… Read more »

stuttie
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@ Jeremy – totally agree. I’d even go so far as saying that learning & internalizing Game is, and has been, more important for my quality of life overall than the ‘better understanding’ of women.
I’m finding that viewing & living life via a Red Pill lens has improved everything significantly (which is why I can’t comprehend Game denilists).

It’s funny because no matter how many trolls appear here spewing up “it doesn’t work” bullshit – I know that it does; because I put it into practice and had positive results.

70'sAntiHero
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@Frerick Welfare You have thoroughly outlined as to ‘why’ the nuclear family has out lived it’s usefulness in a modern day context. The so called intolerance of the monopoly of the ‘Patriarchy’ as possibly one or the main contributing factor. A sort of one best way at the expense of all other orientations. Okay. It seems to me that the implicit understanding of male (feral) polygamy and complete ignorance of female (feral) hypergamy, or the default women good man bad epistemology is not enough to through away all of the benefit of millennia of Western Society. Hasn’t it been demonstrated… Read more »

70'sAntiHero
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sorry @Fredrick Welfare

Jeremy
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@Mad Yale Grad “Game by itself is a contradiction, it is an attempt of people with no resources, no money and nothing to offer to be at the same level of people who live exciting and fulfilling lives. In other words, PUA are themselves the “betas” they point their fingers at.” – Bar Bar elaborates on that in his video and to some extent its true. Of course commenters here will protest because their idea of game is self-improvement … but there is plenty of evidence on the countless PUA sites, forums, videos and workshops of “fake it til you… Read more »

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Jeremy
May 6th, 2015 at 11:00 am

Yup. I was spinning plates like crazy (about 5 a year for 10 years – I was kinda selective) when I had near zero resources.

Not Born This Morning
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Back to “Obesity Culture”

I am a fat slobby disgusting repulsive unhealthy woman.

All men are required to be sexually attracted to me regardless if I am a fat slobby disgusting repulsive unhealthy woman or not….because I am entitled to it.

Any man who is repulsed by my fat slobby disgusting unhealthiness is repulsed because he is a bad evil defective man.

Jeremy
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It’s somehow more fatalistic than that actually. Game deniers think like this:

“I’m fat, and ugly, and there’s no method in the world to make me skinny and attractive. Because there is a single diet marketing company that makes outrageous claims about making me beautiful and skinny, all diets and workouts are bullshit. I was just unlucky to be born this fat, as opposed to all those lucky guys who were born skinny, and that’s all there is to it, there’s nothing I can do.”

Jeremy
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Also, Lone Survivor’s and MYG’s ridiculous point about resources being paramount is laid waste by most high-profile divorce cases. If wealth and capabilities were all it took to keep women happy, why has Donald Trump been married three times? Why was Tiger Woods publicly divorced? Why did Robin Williams marry 3 times and lose his last wife? Why do NFL/NBA players often deal with domestic problems and even divorce? Why does any famous and wealthy man EVER have trouble keeping their woman? If game is so meaningless and self-contradictory… why can’t the most physically attractive and financially attractive among us… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@ Rollo- “52 approaches is more than most men make in a lifetime.” The average man at most makes maybe half that in a lifetime, we are discouraged before we even reach adolescence (little girls are made of sugar and spice and everything nice, little boys are made of slugs and snails and puppy dog tails) and then…. “You’re so immature…” “We know what HE wants…” “Let’s be friends first…” “My father said he would kick any guy’s ass that hurts me…” “I’m looking for a GOOD man…” “Let’s just be friends…” “it’s not her fault, her hearts in the… Read more »

Jeremy
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Actually, I probably overstated my case with Tiger. He may have decent ability to charm women, but with all the cheating he was doing he really needed grandmaster level game to keep his wife.

Lone Survivor
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@Jeremy

“Also, Lone Survivor’s and MYG’s ridiculous point about resources being paramount is laid waste by most high-profile divorce cases. If wealth and capabilities were all it took to keep women happy”

Because you are spectacularly confused.

ONE THING IS TO FUCK.

A DIFFERENT THING IS TO HAVE A HEALTHY MARRIAGE.

Getting laid is all about money.

Having a good marriage is a lot more difficult. You need a good quality woman AND a healthy relationship. And that is something you won’t get with PUA game. Precissely, because PUA only works with women with low self-esteem in environments where you are not legally accountable.

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