The Political is Personal

personal

Dalrock had an interesting post this morning – Black Fathers Don’t Matter – that mends nicely with a topic I was poking at in Obesity Culture:

While HHS (Health and Human Services) says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father, the Census says any man currently shacking up with mom counts as the father so long as mom says so.  Either way, fathers clearly can’t matter that much to the US government if distinguishing between the actual father and the man currently banging mom isn’t important.

There are other ways we can tell that fathers don’t matter (and therefore Black fathers don’t matter).  Under our current family system fathers are a sort of deputy parent. Just like a sheriff’s deputy serves at the pleasure of the sheriff, a father in an intact family serves at the pleasure of the mother.  Our entire family court structure is designed to facilitate the removal of the father should the mother decide she no longer wants him to be part of the family unit.  How important can fathers really be, when we have a massive and brutal bureaucracy devoted to helping mothers kick them out of the house?

What Dal is pointing out here has a far broader implication than simply how various governments define fatherhood. Many critics of my defining the Feminine Imperative like to think it’s a work in conspiracy. However, as I’ve explained before, there really is no need for a conspiracy; the Feminine Imperative has no centralized power base because feminine-primacy is so ensaturated into our collective social consciousness. It needs no centralization because feminine social primacy is literally part of women’s self-understanding – and by extension men’s understanding of women and what women expect of them.

Thus, on a Hypergamous social scale we see that Protein World’s male focused ad gets no such vandalism. The message is clear – It is Men who must perform, Men who need to change themselves, optimize themselves and strive for the highest physical ideal to be granted female sexual approval. Women should be accepted, respected and expected to inspire genuine desire irrespective of men’s physical ideals.

[…]

On more than a few occasions I’ve made the connection that what we see in a feminine-primary societal order is really a reflection of the female sexual strategy writ large. When we see a culture of obesity, a culture of body fat acceptance and a culture that presumes a natural evolved order of innate differences between the sexes should be trumped by self-impressions of female personal worth, we’re viewing a society beholden to the insecurities inherent in women’s Hypergamy.

A feminized, feminist, ordered social structure is one founded on ensuring the most undeserving women, by virtue of being women, are entitled to, and assured of, the best Hypergamous options by conscripting and conditioning men to comply with Hypergamy’s dictates.

I’m quoting this again here because, in light of Dalrock’s observations, it’s important for men to really understand that the power struggle women claim to be engaged in with men has already been settled on a meta, social scale. When a father is whomever a woman says he is, that’s a very powerful tool of social power leveraging.

  • A father is anyone a woman/mother claims he is
  • A father is legally bound to children he didn’t sire
  • A father is prevented at great legal and social effort from access to DNA testing of children he suspects aren’t his own
  • A father is legally responsible for the children resulting from his wife/girlfriend cuckolding him
  • A father is financially obligated to the support of children that he didn’t sire or he had no power in deciding to sire

These aren’t just examples relating to men’s lack of power in parenting; these are examples of determining the degree of control a man can exercise over the direction of his entire life. From Truth to Power:

Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.

The inherent insecurity that optimizing Hypergamy poses to women is so imperative, so all-consuming, to their psychological wellbeing that establishing complex social orders to facilitate that optimization were the first things women collectively constructed when they were (nominally) emancipated from men’s provisioning around the time of the sexual revolution.

Ensuring the optimization of women’s biologically prompted Hypergamy is literally the basis of our current social order. On a socio-political scale what we’re experiencing is legislation and cultural mandates that better facilitate Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks.

Driver had a good comment from the last post that illustrates another aspect of this feminine-power consolidation (emphasis mine):

“All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.”

It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big. You would think that these overweight women would get the memo by now but women (and more of them) keep getting bigger each year.

Feminine-Primary Social Doctrine is the Extension of Women’s Hypergamy

In a feminine-primary social order women presume, without an afterthought, that they are entitled to an attractive guy who works out and meets or exceeds women’s very stringent and static physical ideal. At the same time they expect an entitlement to absolute control of that attraction/arousal process regardless of, and to the exception of, any influence or difference in men’s control of that process. And they expect this without any thought to meriting it beyond appeals to a nebulous and inflated concept of their personal self-worth.

When we consider the present, ambiguous state of sexual consent laws we begin to understand the latent Hypergamous purpose those laws serve – absolute consolidation of women’s Hypergamous strategies as the motivator of any sexual encounter.

Furthermore, they expect an entitlement, either directly or indirectly, to the material support and provisioning of men for no other reason than they were born female.

Any deviation from this is on the part of  men is met with a cultural reprisal designed to convince or coerce men to accept their inevitable role in providing those entitlements to women. When those social contingencies fail, or become played out, the Feminine Imperative then appeals to legal legislation to mandate men’s compliance to what amounts to women’s social entitlement to optimized Hypergamy.

Legislating Hypergamy

From the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy this amounts to socially shaming men’s sexual imperatives while simultaneously empowering women’s short-term sexual strategies and fomenting men’s societal acceptance of it (i.e. the Sandberg plan for Open Hypergamy). This is further enforced from a legal perspective through consent laws and vague “anti-harassment” legislation to, ideally, optimize women’s hypergamous prospects.

When we read about instances of the conveniently fluid definitions of rape and harassment (not to mention the pseudo-victimhood of not being harassed), this then turns into proposed “rape-by fraud” legislation. Hypergamy wants absolute certainty, absolute veracity, that it will be secured in its optimization. And in an era when the only restraint on Hypergamy depends on an individual woman’s capacity for being self-aware of it, that Hypergamy necessitates men be held legally responsible for optimizing it.

Even the right for women to have safe and legal abortions finds its root in women’s want to mandate an insurance of their Hypergamous impulses. Nothing says “he wasn’t the right guy” like the unilateral power to abort a man’s genetic legacy in utero.

Feminist boilerplate would convince us that expanding definitions of rape is an effort to limit men’s control of women’s bodies – however, the latent purpose of expanding the definition is to consolidate on the insecurity all women experience with regard to optimizing Hypergamy.

The Beta Bucks insurance aspect of Hypergamy is evidenced by cultural expectations of male deference to wives’ authority in all decision making aspects of a marriage or relationship. And once again this expectation of deference is a grasping for assurances of control should a woman’s Hypergamous choosing of a man not meet her expectations. This is actualized covertly under the auspices of egalitarian equalism and the dubious presumptions of support and feminine identification on the part of men.

Beyond this there are of course the ubiquitous divorce, support, child support and domestic violence legalities that grossly favor women’s interests – which should be pointed out are rooted in exactly the same Hypergamous insecurity that her short-term Alpha Fucks mating strategies demand legislation for.

As Open Hypergamy becomes more institutionalized and made a societal norm by the Feminine Imperative, and as more men become Red Pill aware (by effort or consequences) because of it, the more necessary it will become for a feminine-primary social order to legislate and mandate men comply with it.

Going Mainstream

I’ve addressed this before, but I’ve never done politics on TRM. I will never do screeds on race or multi-culturalism or religion on TRM for a very good reason – it pollutes the message.

We now are seeing the results of this pollution as the manosphere is attacked from both sides of the political spectrum.

I’ve given this example before, but if you put Gretchen Carlson and Rachel Maddow on the same show and confronted them with red pill truths and Game-awareness they would eagerly close ranks, reserve their political differences and cooperatively fight for the Feminine Imperative.

This is the degree to which the Feminine Imperative has been saturated into our western social fabric. Catholic women in the Vatican may have very little in common with Mormon women in Utah, but let a Mormon woman insist the church alter its fundamental foundational articles of faith with regard to women in favor of a doctrine substituted by the Feminine Imperative and those disparate women have a common purpose.

That is the depth of the Feminine Imperative – that female primacy should rewrite articles of faith to prioritize women’s interests.

Religious doctrine, legal and political legislation, cultural norms, labor and economic issues; all are trumped by the Feminine Imperative. All have been subverted to defer to the Feminine Imperative while maintaining a default status of victimhood and oppression of women and women’s interests necessary to perpetuate that covert decentralized power base.

It doesn’t matter what world view, ideology or political stripe the opposition holds; men, masculinity and anything contrary to the feminine-primary social narrative will always be a common enemy of the Feminine Imperative, and both liberal and conservative will climb over one another to throw the first punch if it means defending women and defending the feminine social order by proxy.

This is why anything even marginally pro-masculine is vilified in mainstream society. Anything pro-masculine is always an easy, preferred target because it’s so hated, so incorrect, in a feminine-primary context that it can unite people of hostilely opposed political and ideological differences.

It’s my opinion that red pill awareness needs to remain fundamentally apolitical, non-racial and non-religious because the moment the Red Pill is associated with any social or religious movement, you co-brand it with an ideology, and the validity of it will be written off along with any preconceptions associated with that specific ideology.

Furthermore, any co-branding will still be violently disowned by whatever ideology it’s paired with because the Feminine Imperative has already co-opted and trumps the fundaments of that ideology. The fundamental truth is that the manosphere, pro-masculine thought, Red Pill awareness or its issues are an entity of its own.

This is what scares the shit out of critics who attempt to define, contain and compartmentalize the manosphere / Red Pill awareness; it’s bigger than social, racial, political or religious strictures can contain. It crosses all of those constructs just as the Feminine Imperative has co-opted all of those cultural constructs. The feminized infrastructure of the MSM that’s just beginning to take the manosphere seriously enough to be critical are discovering this and trying to put the genie back into a bottle defined by their feminine-primary conditioning.

The idea that one of their own, whether in a liberal or conservative context, is genuinely Red Pill aware and educating others of that awareness is unnerving for the Feminine Imperative that’s already established strong footholds in either ideology.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

676 comments on “The Political is Personal

  1. @Glenn – I greatly appreciate your posts where you talk about how you’re overcoming adversity in your life. I do not like your posts where you delve into politics and general intellectual masturbation in an attempt to knock Rollo down a few pegs. Would love to hear about more of the former and none of the latter. I say this with all sincerity.

  2. @mikephil

    “Just saw the State Farm commercial – the ‘Never’ ad that shows a man capitulating over and over – in this light, and it’s a mind blower. The formerly single guy gets molded into a husband and father in order to support the wife’s goals.”

    since all his nevers fail, the “never letting go” will end in divorce and limited custody. State Farm will be there for all his nevers.

  3. Rocket, What I disagree about is that where Leftists get the majority of their power. They control the narrative and shut out all opposition.

    Sure. But this leads to catasrophic decline; power extended beyond its support creates an unstable situation…until one day it just all collapses. Sort of like Communism, or conservative decline in the 1960’s, or the Japanese economic superpower of the 1990s…one day, it all just vanishes without warning.

    I also disagree how this is going to turn out

    I wouldn’t be shocked to find you are right. A bang rather than a wimper is possible. But if so, it will be due to feminism collapsing and leaving hole, not due to feminism being powerful.

    Watch feminist women talking with trad women someday. Fems will ditch their ideology for practical advantage at the drop of a hat. Women are feminist merely because it’s easy. The minute they see adavantage elsewhere? Feminism collapses, and you won’t be able to get them to admit to ever being a member.

  4. @Rollo

    Thanks, but no thanks. I’ll stick to the real thing. You have a great blog, and I am happy to read through your articles, thank you for your time and wisdom sharing.

    @Superbetavirgin

    Thank you for your comment, We are all here to learn. We must also be careful to avoid start echoing the same things over and over to the point of being dellusional. Diverse voices bring new perspectives and allow to test and falsate theories.

    @Siffrelc

    “You do believe in marriage? Do you would get married if the right girl comes along?
    What are you going to do with your attitude you describe above? Flip a switch and all the quality girls will come running towards your DHV?
    Getting married requires finding a woman. If you are isolating yourself to only women that notice you. ”

    Yes, I believe. Yes, I do. I don’t know what I am going to do, I am simply open to what life and God have to put in front of me. Let’s put it this way: “I won’t find a girl, neither a girl won’t finde me. We will find each other”.

    Guys, you have to understand that the places to meet girlfriend material are not clubs/bars/parties. There are other places, so if you want to find a decent woman, not going to clubs anymore is likely to affect your life possitively.

    @TheRedBaron

    Hey, like your view!!! The greatest problem of many people here is:
    1. they live in a fearful state: “women are whores who will leave me for someone bigger and better”
    2. they boil masculinity down to physical traits: that is the femeneization of men, blame feminism. Men, as long as they are in shape, do not need to be Charles Atlas. They need to be functional. A man who practices muay thai or box every day and has a decent shape may be more attractive to women than a man who hits the gym compulsively and behaves narcissistic
    3. they believe that the only trait that makes women valuable is virginity: many women are virgin because they are frigid or sexually repressed. After marriage, it is THEM who swallow the red pill and fuck everything that walks behind their husband, this is particularly evident in Spain.
    4. they underestimate their own agency: they think that if a woman leaves them it will be the end of their life, something that may happen only if the legal context of the marriage contract is unfavourable (something that can be easy countermesured by marrying only through church and NOT by law)

    PUA comes from a scarcity mindset where men cannot afford to use their resources as a tool to attract women. Abundance mindset implies entering realtionships with women with the intention of offering and giving, and being able to walk away if the man’s needs are not satisfied.

  5. @TheRedBaron

    My view of marriage has changed over time. The only women who will give unconditional love to men is their mother (and sometimes not even mothers do it). Women will always expect something from men, the same way we expect things from women.

    A decent girlfriend must be:
    1. a family woman: to help create a healthy family where children grow to become useful to society.
    2. a good nurse/cooker/caring person: both to her husband and children
    3. a teacher: to educate children
    4. a wild prostitute in her man’s bed

    When these 4 conditions are met, she earns herself the right to spend the hardly-earned money of his husband.

  6. “What non isolatory experiences have you brought to table? considering you are always scared of cheating on your NAWALT.
    How many women have you flirted lately or with how many women have you successfully DHVed?”

    Ever hear of cute pharmaceutical dermatology drug reps? Yeah, they call on me daily. I flirt and I game them, it’s fun, but I have no desire to get laid by one because I’m not desperate. Ive been a dermatologist seeing patients for the last 25 years. I socialize at a local country club at which my wife presents as quite prominent, golfing and socializing (…if I had a dime for every time other women told me my wife is a great person or that she looks so good….).

    I’m not scared of cheating at all. It is just that I don’t have motive. Nor do I have good opportunity. To explain opportunity further, I’m only slightly more attractive than Athol Kay but shorter and fatter, with slightly more hair. If you have been following along and visited Dragonfly’s blog http://girlwithadragonflytattoo.com/ she is pretty attractive. My wife is that attractive.

    Rollo can tip his hat the looks I’m talking about. In an email conversation, I sent him a photo of us as background to my occasional crazy posting (sorry for my occasional crazy post).

    At 29 years old I had decent looks, a good attitude, finished being board certified as an Internal Medicine doctor and got accepted into Dermatology residence (a DHV to any nurse including my wife for sure). I literally had 10 for a MMV and maybe a 7 SMV. Right time, right place, right unicorn. I have had a couple trump cards since then. Some of them are intellect, awareness and a good attitude (fortitude you might say, when the chips are down).

    “What happens if tomorrow due to any incident/accident your MMV plummets to zero ? Your NAWALT will still be by your side or does your social circle have enough divorced / single high MMVers that she can instantly switch to.”
    Is that a trick question? Of course she leaves me with cash and prizes. I see that as a natural red pill awareness.

    “If a man; even after getting his frame right; does not break the MMV ceiling , what chance does he have to lock down a NAWALT?
    All that a man can do is get his frame right and work hard. Success is not guaranteed. ”
    You are correct, sir. You get something. You get red pill awareness.

    “With HYPERGAMY going exponential, polluting the entire school of female fishes , I find your lone example repeated ad infinitum is potentially very damaging to expectations most TRPers here.”

    That is a fair enough concern. I hadn’t thought about it. My INTJ MBTI has always had me set for myself the highest most idealistic expectations.

    I pretty much agree with your assessment Shiva H. P. You have accurate vision with the red pill lenses. I’m glad to put out more info about myself if it helps others see more clearly what Rollo has helped me with. I’m not trying to brag. I’m trying to assert game is necessary in all forms of a man’s relationships. And you have to be idealistic to some degree to achieve a good score with women whether it be a STR or LTR. (Which just reminds me I got laid the first night out with her and it wasn’t a planned date.)

    My wife is an AWALT. She’s unicorn-ike only in the fact that she has stayed married to me for so long and she is still a WILF.

  7. @Glenn –

    If you want to understand conservatives, check out the book *The Righteous Mind*, by Jonathan Haidt. Great explanation of how we morally reason. It also has a really good explanation of the hamster.

    Have you read *The Market For Liberty* by Morris and Linda Tannehill? You might want to check it out.

  8. “The very title of Rollo’s post is a version of a left wing idea. “Make the political personal” is a left wing cry, and is part of why we are where we are at. You see, this forces them to internalize their political ideology and…”

    I interpreted the title differently. My “interpretation” was an immediate assumption and reaction that Rollo meant the title to be a that the political abortion agenda IS a personal agenda rooted in female solipsism and that agenda born out of personal individual drive is developed by consensus and broadcasted into the cultural political realm.

    I agree that the “left” is a more outspoken obnoxious mouth piece of the agenda. However, no woman from the “right” appears to actually be working to abolish the agenda, although a number of right wing women pay lip service to that abolition. Believe what they do, not what they say.

    This site is not a forum for the evaluation of left and right political ideals although much of what we are batteling on the surface appears to be supported more by the left. The larger problem stems from the more fundamental dynamics of human sociological and psychological sexual interaction concerning what Rollo defines as hypergamy and mans idealism concerning sexual “love”.

  9. What a couple posters suggested re. Dave Goldberg has been outright said by an aspie female blogger:

    http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2015/05/03/dave-goldberg-cause-of-death-i-think-its-suicide/

    At the time of this writing, the MSM is saying head trauma caused by falling off the treadmill. lt took 3 days to come to this conclusion?

    Maybe it takes a while to get this kind of stuff figured out when you’re in a country like Mexico, I dunno. May Dave Goldberg RIP regardless.

  10. “….building fortresses around yourself only cuts you off from information and experiences that will help you become a better Man. …”

    This is true except one crucial aspect. That aspect is reviled by use of the words “a better Man”. Red pill awareness and the education offered here has improved my life. It has not made me become “a better Man”. It has enabled me to live A BETTER LIFE.

    To think or say this endeavor makes one “a better man” implies intrinsic inferiority prior to the knowledge gained, understood and applied. Our education does not define who we are at the core to begin with. The fact is, we are all great men to begin with. We can make our lives better by increased awareness, comprehension and action. Knowledge is a tool that facilitates better performance. Knowledge and performance do not establish the value of the person.

    A persons effective valve is primarily established by what that person thinks of himself independent of anything else.

    Before anyone can effectively apply knowledge and perform to live a better life, they must first realize their intrinsic value is independent of the knowledge and performance and independent of what anyone else may or may not think of them. If you think you must do this or that “to become a better man” then you have primarily established a distorted perception of yourself and you are actually denigrating yourself.

    1. @Not Born this morning
      “Knowledge is a tool that facilitates better performance.”

      A beautiful way to admit it never goes away. With that it mind i suppose I am less likely to get banned somewhere from now on.

  11. @NBTM

    I don’t see a problem with denigrating my past self if my past behavior, thoughts, actions, and failures reflect someone worse than the man I have become. All the things that reflected who I was internally were worse and have been significantly improved. A better life has come as a result of that work.

    If you’re talking about “becoming a better man” for someone else in their frame? Yeah, that’s definitely a piss poor way to look at it. But becoming a better man within your own definition and for your own reasons in your own frame? I see no problem with that.

    In engineering I’ve always acknowledged the first step to improving something is realizing that it sucks according to the metrics you’ve designed or acknowledged as relevant. I consider myself no different than any other system I wish to build, fix, or improve.

    1. @Sun wukong
      “I consider myself no different than any other system I wish to build, fix, or improve.”
      That’s crosses art science philosophy photography sports bodywork mechanics sociology anatomy biology

      It’s being a Man. To you not to others… I tip my hat to you good sir.

  12. @Sun Wukong

    Would you be any less a person in your perception if you had not become an engineer, or changed your past views and behavior? Does your education and performance really change who you are? Or did those things change the way you live? Suppose you never had the same opportunities and made fewer changes. Would you think less of yourself? If so, why? Do you think other people who understand less than you and do not perform as well as you compared to the standards you set for yourself are of lower value than you? If so, why? Why would you contrast and compare them to you in your mind based on your standards? Does someone else’s niavity or inferior performance really make THEM less valuable, or is their performance and ignorance less valuable?

    Opportunity, knowledge and performance have little to do with a persons accurate perception of himself. If this were not true we would not learn from failure. Failure is the best and most employed teacher. Failure should affect how we feel about what happened to us and how we feel about our performance. Failure should not affect our perception of what we are worth to ourselves. A healthy positive self perception facilitates the aquisition of knowledge, better performance, etc. Negative self perceptions facilitate the self fulfilling prophecy of expected failure. We tend to act in ways that manifest what we think of ourselves. Our actions towards this goal are motivated subconsciously and consciously.

  13. @Sun: “All the things that reflected who I was internally were worse and have been significantly improved. A better life has come as a result of that work.”

    That’s truly admirable.

    1. @Not born
      “Opportunity, knowledge and performance have little to do with a persons accurate perception of himself. If this were not true we would not learn from failure. ”

      Well stated

  14. Would you be any less a person in your perception if you had not become an engineer, or changed your past views and behavior?
    If I had never decided to improve, yes I would be less a man. Absolutely. I was not as hard working or happy as I am. I was not as well paid. I was not as proud.

    Does your education and performance really change who you are?
    Yes, every experience every day shapes who you are. We are the sum of our experiences, hence the reason while I think I sucked a lot more back then, I don’t hate myself for those times either. To hate myself for those experiences is to hate who I have become: the sum of those things. The first step to learning to like myself was to acknowledge that I sucked at things, but that I didn’t have to hate myself for it to acknowledge that I did.

    Or did those things change the way you live?
    Changing who you are changes the only thing you control in this life. Naturally that will alter how you live.

    Suppose you never had the same opportunities and made fewer changes. Would you think less of yourself? If so, why?
    This question is meaningless. However, to answer your question as best as I can guess: I wouldn’t have known enough to know I could be a better man. In all likelihood I would have remained miserable though. From the perspective I’m at right now, I look at what might have been and yeah I feel I’m better than that guy would have been. Absolutely.

    Do you think other people who understand less than you and do not perform as well as you compared to the standards you set for yourself are of lower value than you? If so, why?
    Yes, and society agrees. We are each rewarded not based on how nice a person we are or what we think of ourselves, but by what we can and will do for others now and in the future. Nothing else. This is why different people are paid different amounts per hour for their work. Some people are more valuable than others. While those amounts are some times out of whack, in general the make sense; a skilled doctor is worth far more to the public at large than a skilled barrista.

    Why would you contrast and compare them to you in your mind based on your standards?
    Sure, but they’re doing the same to me, and employers and potential mates are doing the same to both of us. We all do it. Anyone claiming they don’t is full of shit.

    Does someone else’s niavity or inferior performance really make THEM less valuable, or is their performance and ignorance less valuable?
    Same answer as above: society rewards based on actual performance, not how much you like yourself.

    Does perceiving myself as a worse man back then mean I hated or didn’t love him? No. It just means I feel that in every quantifiable way I’m a better man than he was. Parents love even their less than worthless offspring on death row for raping and murdering children, but they realize that the other kid who’s a brain surgeon is better person. We all intrinsically understand why that distinction is made too. Some people are better than others.

  15. @Sun Wukong

    “If you’re talking about “becoming a better man” for someone else in their frame? Yeah, that’s definitely a piss poor way to look at it.”

    There is only one frame you can really experience…..YOUR FRAME.

    It is impossible to experience yourself or anything else in any other frame. You can assume what the frame of another is and how you are perceived in their frame, but you never really know what their perception is beyond what you think of what they may or may not tell you through their actions and words.

    Self denigration and self aggrandizement in the past present or future are all distorted self perceptions practiced to reinforce or hide primary conditioned self identification.

  16. Why would you contrast and compare them to you in your mind based on your standards?
    Oops, missed the “why”, just saw the “would”. I would compare to understand what I can learn from them or where they fit in my life. In some cases it’s so that I can figure out ways to try and help them improve their lot in life if they didn’t have my opportunities. In other cases it’s so I can steer clear of people who will simply drain my time giving nothing in return.

  17. @NBTM

    There is only one frame you can really experience…..YOUR FRAME.

    I disagree. Men credit their shrew wives ordering them around with making them a “better man” all the time. He’s living in her reality. In all likelihood she’s ordering him to do things that are detrimental to himself as a man.

    1. @Sun wukong
      ” In other cases it’s so I can steer clear of people who will simply drain my time giving nothing in return.”

      This is damn important for men and especially as a teenager growing up. Mainly because it’s hard to decern sometimes even as an adult.

  18. @Sun Wukong

    “He’s living in her reality.”

    I disagree.

    He cannot live in her reality. It is impossible for him to because he cannot experience it. He is not her. The nearest he can come, is to live in what he ASSUMES her reality is……or HOPES it is. For his benefit, he should endeavor to accurately comprehend his reality and live in it accordingly.

  19. Lone Survivor, ” they boil masculinity down to physical traits: that is the femeneization of men, blame feminism. Men, as long as they are in shape, do not need to be Charles Atlas. They need to be functional. A man who practices muay thai or box every day and has a decent shape may be more attractive to women than a man who hits the gym compulsively and behaves narcissistic”

    THIS. It is gay men, not straight women, who value perfection in the male physique. Women appreciate a fit, healthy man but its the gay sexual market that puts a premium on overt displays of hyper-masculinity like body building. If you want to see the best the male physique has to offer then make your way into a gay community. Competition is stiff, no pun intended, and they obsess over mens’ looks to an extent simply not seen amongst most women.

    “they believe that the only trait that makes women valuable is virginity: many women are virgin because they are frigid or sexually repressed. After marriage, it is THEM who swallow the red pill and fuck everything that walks behind their husband, this is particularly evident in Spain.”

    If someone is frigid or repressed before marriage then they will most likely be frigid and repressed after getting married too.

  20. @Sun Wukong

    “Yes, and society agrees.”

    “Society agrees” is your perception of an existential consensus approval process or standard that does not really exist. You create this perception for yourself to reinforce your self identity standard.

    Peoples values, judgement standards and desires differ, from person to person, time to time, place to place, subculture to subculture and with age.

  21. @NBTM

    “Society agrees” is your perception of an existential consensus approval process or standard that does not really exist.

    So price discovery in labor markets doesn’t exist? That’s news to me.

  22. Hell, by your reasoning, time for me to go get a 6 figure job at McDonald’s. When they tell me the position doesn’t pay that much, I’ll tell them I identify as a man worth $100k/yr for working in fast food. Let’s see how well that goes over.

  23. I really don’t know where NBTM is coming up with this idea that frame is everything. Having every thing fit in your frame is great is you can keep rock solid frame.

    Well spoken Sun W. in response. I would cosign every answer to every question.

    And I abdicated frame to my dominant wife in the middle stretches of my LTR. This was because she was dominant, had good feminine imperative skills to accomplish her strategy (beta bucks) and because I abdicated frame.

    I am a better person now, but was a fine person then. My performance has improved greatly, not only in how I feel about my-self but how others perceive me. I can enter someone else frame and perform better because I am better due to intellect and skills. It is skills and perfomance, not how I feel about my frame.

    Five years ago I wanted to withdraw from social interactions (with couples) and didn’t have any good gang of men to hang with (didn’t trust guys any farther than I could throw them). Today I willingly engage in social interactions and have an excellent core group of like-minded “gang” friends not because I feel better about myself or don’t look down on others, but because I upped my game. I improved, I got rid of a few vices, I learned and understood game better. I got to the gym, got back to lifting weights, etc. Pretty much my pivot was red pill awareness (yes it was painful to swallow) and game implementation.

    The thing is I pretty much came at this red pill awareness and game implementation from Inspiration and not Desperation. I took a decent way of life and made it better. My commenting here is to share ideas with like-minded individuals to benefit all of us. I’ve never been depressed, never been more desperate than others, always been an idealist. The weight of literal (money) and psychic taxes (The Fem-centric liberal society that is destroying the United States as a great country) weighs on me every day. Best I can do is shrug off the burden.

    At the risk of being terribly redundant and annoying you guys with the Meyers-Briggs shit (I know its limitations)

    “INTJs are simultaneously the most starry-eyed idealists and the bitterest of cynics, a seemingly impossible conflict. But this is because INTJ types tend to believe that with effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results. Yet that cynical view of reality is unlikely to stop an interested INTJ from achieving a result they believe to be relevant.”

    There is no doubt that an accomplished idealist is better than lazy short-sighted or self serving non-accomplished person.

    A person that has better control over their own circumstances and has more power based on the degree to which he has control over the direction of his life is a better person. A guy who objectively does better is better. It’s not just about self esteem.

    No different that a stronger person in a cage fighting, who wins, is a victor.
    And better than the vanquished fighter.

    NBTM, take it for what its worth. Because of intellect and performance, in the last two years I’ve become better at being a man (in my own mind), a better father to my children, a better man to my wife (defined perhaps by the words “thank you for fucking me! –even if that’s only when she is ovulating, heh I’ll take it”). I am better at visiting the country club and socializing. It is exciting to socialize with the attractive monogamous (heheh, I made that up) hot wives. I’m better at seeing patients and keeping frame. Have more inspiration for my employees.

    All because of the fact that red pill awareness and game implementation derived from inspiration, not despiration have made me a better man for myself and better in the way that others perceive me and in actual terms, better that some others. Fuck inner beauty, Viva outer performance.

  24. ” I’ve seen this theory floated in the manosphere before and it has some merit. Demographic trends indicate that Muslims and Mexicans are overtaking white populations. What you are ignoring is that second generation immigrants often assume the dominant values of their nation.”

    Generally this has been true throughout history, and so far in the US remains to be true. However in the UK and a few other European countries there has been a reverse trend amongst Muslims wherein the parents and/or grandparents, original immigrants and/or 2nd genners, assimilated but the contemporary generation of 2nd to 3rd, 4th generation youth is reverting back to the old ways, exclusive, conservative, orthodox, even fundamentalist Islam. Even where such extreme forms of Islam are/were not popular in their forebearers’ countries of origins or cultures, they are taking it up as natural born citizens in Europeans lands. Go to the UK or Holland or France and you will meet grandmothers with no hijab whatsoever alongside granddaughters in full nikab. Or mild mannered, clean shaven grandfathers alongside grandsons with full beard and cap loudly spouting all kinds of Islamic propaganda.

  25. “Peoples values, judgement standards and desires differ, from person to person, time to time, place to place, subculture to subculture and with age.”

    Not that shit all over again. In the 1920’s in the United States there was a big shift in values when Einstein’s theory of relativity took hold. Social mores actually shifted due to the wrongheaded though that the the physical relativity had some social relativity.

    So Values, Religion and Concrete values were reduced to “It’s all Relative”.

    ref.: “Modern Times Revised Edition: The World from the Twenties to the Nineties” by Paul Johnson

    I call BullScheiße.

  26. My new job interview strategy: “I reject your reality and replace it with my own.”

    Billionaire CEO position here I come!

  27. “My new job interview strategy: “I reject your reality and replace it with my own.”
    Billionaire CEO position here I come!”

    Ouch. That’s facetious. And it’s going to leave a mark if someone doesn’t realizes it and thinks that would work in real life.

    1. @sjfrellc
      “And it’s going to leave a mark if someone doesn’t realizes it and thinks that would work in real life.”

      That is the red pill that the 15 yr old self would thrive from…

      Nothing beats hard work. Anyone who works hard and knows it brings forth a confidence unmatched.

  28. @rugby11ljh

    Like I said earlier, I caught a bit of rugby last week. Tell me about how the rugby culture is treating you and how it makes you be better at being a masculine man. I’m quite unaware of the ins and outs of the game. It seems like it is high risk for sports injuries. But is that just a small relative risk as opposed to an absolute risk to get injured in a 4 year career?

  29. “That is the red pill that the 15 yr old self would thrive from…”

    Wait. What? How old are you rugby?

    1. @sjfrellc
      27 I meant to say at 15 that would have really helped.
      “But is that just a small relative risk as opposed to an absolute risk to get injured in a 4 year career?”
      Compared to american football I would go with rugby. You can get a hit and pass out its happened at my second practice. I slowed down and this Jamaican kept running at me. He hit me so hard that I flow about 4 feet in the air passed the goal line and woke up with half my face coverd in blood.
      I swear tha I couldn care less about how hard that hurt. He and 4 others went up to me and asked if I would be ok. I am always going to ol even at the last moment o my life. It’s just a matter of adjustment.
      My point is that in rugby unlike on Rollos blog If I can anyone out. Anyone
      We play it out an a field.
      It can be a joke or just man shit testin one another. But even if we disagree and completely hate each we go to a bar and get beer afterward.
      One thing about rugby tha helps destroy feminism is open hypergamy. If I where to take a girl out who was dating another player people would be asking me why?
      Women have a harder time getting into using relationships as control on how we play. This for me goes back to masturbation and porn. You lose YOUR semen to someone else doing the work for you.
      In rugby if I am not on my plane my FRAME
      I am a left wing. I run my ass off I dot have nearly as much muscle as half the players. But when I get the ball I run my ass if which my balls in tact and I dot avoid getting thrown to the ground harshly. If you want to pick someone up and tackle them you can as long as you go down with them.
      Speaking of femenism I once played with a girl and tackled her. So as a gentlemen I put my hand out to pick her up. She willingly flipped me over her head and I landed on my back. It hurt like hell but I learn a lot about how playing with women is inherently not the same. Being equal was something that has little application in rugby. You synchronize each movement almost as if your having intercourse on a field as each player moves forward by passing the ball backward. You Don’t talk shit about each other. You move even when not everyone’s at their best. You play in the snow you play in the rain. You play even when like I did you knock someone’s arm out of their socket and offer to put it back in place.
      You enjoy running for 40 mins as a boon to beheld in memory.
      You don’t critize complain or condem the ref
      You play by the whistle in a real game
      Not by what you see.
      It helps a lot to show up to practice to get better.

  30. About hookers and escorts, just as THIRD WAVE SEX POSITIVE FEMINISM has mainstreamed the stripping “profession”, they too will get prostitution first decriminalized, then legalized, then mainstreamed. In about 15 years “sex worker” will be a high status, high paid profession for our smart, good looking daughters. They’ll call themselves, “sexual relationship professionals” or “sex surrogates”. This is the inevitable progression, just mark my words.

    I’m not against it. While self-improvement, inner game and all that can probably work for about 50% of men who need social/SMV help, there is not an insignificant percentage of men who have seriously socially crippling issues like Turrets, Manic Depression, extreme OCD, Autism, etc. These men need a sexual outlet with another human being.

    “Just saw the State Farm commercial – the ‘Never’ ad that shows a man capitulating over and over – in this light, and it’s a mind blower. The formerly single guy gets molded into a husband and father in order to support the wife’s goals.”

    “since all his nevers fail, the “never letting go” will end in divorce and limited custody. State Farm will be there for all his nevers.”

    – Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. LOL. Wasn’t “state farm” another name for “plantation” back in the day?

  31. The hardest Red Piller is the inner city black male. He, more than other, knows the stark reality of female nature and leaves no stone unturned in describing that nature in his music and poetry. If you want to see a genuine Red Pill culture look no further than that culture. They reject the FI, marriage with its kitchen bitch coonery and childcare 100%. Marriage and family is mainstream Blue Pill FI to the max. There is a culture that rejects all that. The question is: do you want to be a part of that culture?

  32. So it’s Monday night. It’s been a busy week. I work all day tomorrow. Tomorrow is Tuesday. My 25th anniversary. Cinqo de Mayo (I’m so old, I don’t remember that being an eventful day in 1990–real holidays are fixed to Fridays and Mondays). My wife is due to start her period tomorrow and I haven’t thought of a decent gift or a way to celebrate the day. Except to tell her “Honey I feel better about myself”. Heh Heheh.

    I’m thinking a $40 bottle of champagne, a bag of Skittles, and a gum-wrapper ring (the dull silver colored side?). Wtf? Silver color is a joy? Google 25th anniversary gifts and they show old fuckers with silver hair.

    50 y.o, 25 anniv., Mother’s Day. Spring blooming Beauty.

  33. Glenn,

    Just stfu. You’re sounding like an undergrad showing off his ‘booklearnin’. It is really obnoxious.

    Just as I don’t need to read Weber to understand how to run my biz, or Darwin to understand evolution, nobody needs to understand Engels to understand obnoxious women with hairy vulvas.

    which came first? homo sapiens or Das Kapital?

    Now go away you pedantic douche.

  34. If MGTOW means no marriage, then the push toward it by our social engineers has already been underway since the 70s. The amount of anti-marriage and anti-monogamy material put out by well-known mainstream establishments and “think tanks” is currently at a peak.

  35. The Baltimore rioters make the red pillers here look pink. Those are men and boys who know wassup with women, the state, the military industrial complex, the establishment, the whole damn lie.

  36. @Mad Yale Grad
    May 4th, 2015 at 10:51 pm

    Where do you live and where is your reference for them triumphing?
    Women have gotten their way with inner city black males. Name me an urban black society that isn’t ruled by a matriarchy. What ground does a successful black male in an urban city stand on. Fucking baby mammas? (sic)

    Matriarchal societies are in the eyes of a man, not as good as patriarchal societies.

    ref.: “The Way of Men” Chapter 11, p. 109 “The Bonobo Masturbation Society”

    In a land of plenty or a land of social welfare aplenty, the patriarchy disappears and the matriarchial society tries it’s best by experimenting.

  37. “The Baltimore rioters make the red pillers here look pink. Those are men and boys who know wassup with women, the state, the military industrial complex, the establishment, the whole damn lie.”

    You can have red pill awareness up the wazhoo. But unless you know how to perform, have value and skill. Perhaps with intellectual skill and having read lots of books simply rioting against “higher ups” and ” The Man” won’t get you farther on in life.

    Sure you can have red pill awareness of how things really work in intersexual behaviorism and you can realize how politics is one big game, but that doesn’t make punks rioting in Baltimore little shits who might be better at being men one day. It just means they are rioting little shits and are perceived as so by the black elders. No one thinks the as you call them
    “red pillers” are anywhere near appropriate in rioting. Their end game stinks.

    The men and boys may know every thing is a damn lie. But then to go on an profit by that knowledge? To riot wantonly? What’s up with that? In refusing to make themselves better and more noble= their downfall as individuals.

  38. Novaseeker,

    “there is a huge qualitative difference in the sex with a woman who just wants you to bang her for the fun of it, on the one hand, and someone who will bang you because you are paying her”

    – LOL! The “qualitative difference” comes in the skills, of which professionals have loads more of.

    Lone Survivor,

    “That, my friend, is the feminine imperative. Do you really believe hookers do not enjoy sex?

    Well, there are those who do not enjoy it, true. There are others, especially if you are young and well-built, who enjoy it. An example: last year I was doing the NoFap challenge and was without fapping for 20 days. On day 21 I needed so much to get laid that I called a hooker and started bantering with her, she wanted to charge me 100 euro for going to her house… she ended coming to my place for 70 euro. It had the best body I ever fucked and I had a better conversation with her than with all the portuguese women I tried to date.

    The feminine imperative wants men to think that prostitutes do not enjoy sex and are sub-human, because a huge part of the feminine power is built on the capacity to withhold sex. A man who has money is no longer attached to women’s hysteria, as he can fuck whenever he wants. ”

    THIS IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE!

    If you are young, fit and groomed prostitutes will love you and sex you to death. Because its so rare for them to get an attractive, clean client with some confidence and youthful energy you will be the bombdiggity and word will travel fast throughout that community and you’ll be getting discounted offers with some freebies thrown in.

    Blue Pill family men like Novaseeker oppose the sex industry because they don’t want such work mainstreamed in the same society their daughters grow up in.

    Tough titty.

  39. sjfrellc my point is that mainstream white America is always 30ish years behind black America. 30plus years ago black boys and men started rebelling against the state, feminism and women in general. They went their own way. Pimps up, hos down. The end result is what you see today in the streets of Baltimore. That’s where red pill inevitably leads.

  40. @sjfrellc

    “My wife is due to start her period tomorrow and I haven’t thought of a decent gift or a way to celebrate the day.”

    Your cock in a silver bow. “Bought you a sucker. Hurry up and unwrap it.”

  41. @Male Yale Grad – good point about Black America. Game (atleast in it’s raw hardcore form) originated in the ghettos even before these PUA clowns came out of their dad’s cocks.

    I understand middle class Yanks are using a softcore form of game that Rollo has alluded to, but even Roosh has commented on what you noted and said that society is screwed in the future (you don’t have to be MGTOW or even Red Pill to see this).

    @Male Yale Grad you will agree with this (Sorry for the repost everyone else):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNttiuddy6E

    TRP needs to focus more on male on male violence and how women get off on it.

    In the Eastern cultures ‘hooking up’ is for low class people, especially those who are unable to afford no other recreational activities other than sex. Even in the West, with the invention and introduction of the TV people ended up having less sex in the night with their wife’s/mistresses/gfs etc…the population dropped as well.

  42. @The Red Baron

    oooooooooooh myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!! You, sir, are a genius!!!! Love that video!

    And this is where some of the fundamentals of TRP are flushed down the toilet.

    Rephrasing The Matrix:
    NEO: Are you telling me that I can convince women and hack their brains to get laid?
    MORPHEUS: No, what I am telling you is that once you are ready you won’t need to.

    Great thoughts of yours too!

  43. @The Red Baron

    How interesting?

    I have a ‘friend’, “natural alpha”, when we go out he get s the girl|s every time.

    He’s penniless, relies on his soft harem to get him through. Includes his ex wife that he gave chlamydia, and still buys him a car, never a dollar of child support, lives with his ex girl friend, that still desires him, rent free. Not to mention the frequent strippers and eight ball benders.

    Has a low wage job and has no clue about the red pill or the man-o- sphere.

    He would sell you out in a heart beat, (tear down his buddies in the group), for some pussy tonight. Our group of friends have seen it over and over. Yet, we always are amazed, laugh and shake our heads. Dumb bitches. That actually want a relationship with this guy.

    One of my favorite stories is the blow job in the porta potty at the ‘Open’ with the cocaine laced blow job. Yikes!! Ah the humanity! lol

    I wouldn’t trade his experiences for all the pussie in the world. Perhaps in my younger day. Nah!

    Tucker Max ain’t got nothin on Diamond Don. Lol

  44. Blaximus,

    “It’s an old song, but never the less relevant. In the late 50’s through the mid 70’s, if you were a poor family and wanted the available gov’t assistance, the able bodied male could not inhabit the residence.”

    – You’re suggesting that the US government convinced married black women to divorce their husbands in order to receive cheese?

    “Social workers would check up on recipients of gov’t funds and inspect the residence to assure the money wasn’t being spent on anything not essential to survival. This set the stage for disaster.”

    – How did it “set the stage for disaster”? Are you suggesting money coming from tax paying American citizens should have been spent on non-essentials?

  45. “@Male Yale Grad you will agree with this …”

    – Nope, I don’t agree with Bar Bar’s assertion that the government went into homes and “removed fathers”. This notion that married black women back in the ’60s divorced their able-bodied working husbands in exchange for food stamps is ludicrous. The fact is that the government stepped up to provide housing and cheddar to single moms who’s (unmarried, to them anyway) baby daddies had long bounced, and were never “in the home” to start with. Black men have been “going their own way” for a good minute now, son.

    “good point about Black America. Game (atleast in it’s raw hardcore form) originated in the ghettos even before these PUA clowns came out of their dad’s cocks.

    I understand middle class Yanks are using a softcore form of game that Rollo has alluded to”

    – Yeah they call it “married game” LOL.

  46. Govt’s role accelerated the single-mom phenomenon – when you subsidise any activity you get more of it, if you watch his other vids he agrees with you in fact. Govt. didn’t force women to divorce rape their husbands – they did it consciously and calculatedly, they were in marriage primarily for the money (other than status).

    Feminism and govt. instituted no fault divorce appealed to women’s biology and security needs – it had nothing to do with the ‘it corrupted our poor innocent darling’ angle that is often bandied about.

  47. The Red Baron,

    “Prostitution deregulates the SMP to a big extent, women become a lot less cuntish eg German women due to competition from eastern-european sex workers. The american men have a more incomplete world view than their european counterparts when it comes to this.”

    Americans are simultaneously oversexed and prudish. Porn and strip clubs are legal and mainstream (and big bizniz, yeah capitalism!), with their kids logging on at age 7 as reported by Softek, while prostitution remains illegal, sex education in schools is still debated, and some even oppose contraception!

    A confused lot they are.

  48. “Govt’s role accelerated the single-mom phenomenon – when you subsidise any activity you get more of it, if you watch his other vids he agrees with you in fact. Govt. didn’t force women to divorce rape their husbands – they did it consciously and calculatedly, they were in marriage primarily for the money (other than status).”

    He was talking about the government initiatives that were started for black moms in the 60s. They started for the CHILDREN of the single moms , not the married black women. No government agency or social worker went into any married woman’s house and said, “if you divorce your husband we will give you food stamps, isn’t that a more than equal exchange?” Although that is how many black men try to spin it. Like all these married black women just up and divorced good black men so that they could move into the projects and get food stamps. Please. The government did not “break up black families”. It stepped in to provide for black children where there were no responsible, working, “able bodied” legally married black fathers doing so.

  49. I could just imagine Lonestar and MYG sitting in the waiting room for a couple of hookers at 3am on Sunday morning, dead tired of pretending to be interested in the 47th John of the night.

    @ MYG – – “LOL! The “qualitative difference” comes in the skills, of which professionals have loads more of.”

    Not much “skill” in looking young, fuckable, giving half decent blowjobs and spreading legs. She might know reverse cowgirl etc and can fake a few moans and groans but I think it’s Men that are the skilled ones when it comes to fucking. We have the sword, we put them in the position we want, we keep a hard-on for as long as we can hold it.

    So the “qualitative difference” is when your woman is doing anything to please you without handing over a dime.

    MYG – “The feminine imperative wants men to think that prostitutes do not enjoy sex and are sub-human, because a huge part of the feminine power is built on the capacity to withhold sex.”

    I don’t know about that. If anything, the FI wants Men to think that Men won’t enjoy the sex with prostitutes and that Men are sub human for using prostitutes. I mean, isn’t it more important that Men enjoy the sex if using a hooker? (since we are paying for it). Who cares if the hooker doesn’t enjoy it. And that’s the whole point isn’t it? For the Man to enjoy fucking, wouldn’t you want your woman to enjoy you fucking her?

  50. “wouldn’t you want your woman to enjoy you fucking her?”

    To me it doesn’t matter either way – if you wanna have wild sex with me for my looks..you are just as opportunistic if you wanna do the same wild thing for the money or some future financial rewards or because I am a famous rock-star.

    A dark-triad guy from the ghetto even told me it doesn’t matter what she thinks even if she did it to save her indebted brother’s life – implying he doesn’t consider getting validated from a female whatsoever as long he gets what he wants.

  51. @ red baron – A woman being fucked skillfully has nothing to do with needing validation. If you can’t tell when a woman has been fucked within an inch of her life, well…

    If I can see/hear/feel her enthusiasm it makes my dick harder and the experience better,

  52. So it’s not you but your dick that needs validation – you can’t get it up and enjoy otherwise … ah makes sense!

    1. @TheredBaron

      Your comment of the government and single moms reminds me of my biological family in 2015.

      Also many disturbing dinner conversations.

  53. @TheRedBaron

    No ‘Rational Pussy-beggar’ is a better title.

    Now now, you don’t have to be that down on yourself.

  54. Comprehension Fail Part 2, pussy beggar was obviously not referring to me but what else can I expect from validation seeking nether apes.

  55. “…I needed so much to get laid that I called a hooker and started bantering with her, she wanted to charge me 100 euro for going to her house… she ended coming to my place for 70 euro. It had the best body I ever fucked …”

    So she invested her time into you, trying to complete the sale. All you had was 70, she wanted 100. Does she walk away with nothing after investing her time? Or does she go ahead and take your 70?

    Hookers are sales people just like any other (saleswomen? Saleshookers? Saleswhores?).

    She made the right choice for her business, by taking what you had.

    Also,

    The full 100 would of got you anal. Just sayin’

  56. “The full 100 would of got you anal. Just sayin’

    …and your name is caveclown. I’m guessing there’s a good story there.

  57. @TheRedBaron

    “Comprehension Fail”, he said right before broadcasting his failure to comprehend my humor.

    It’s impressive how completely you get everything wrong by taking it so seriously.

  58. @Sun Wukong
    “Hell, by your reasoning, time for me to go get a 6 figure job at McDonald’s. When they tell me the position doesn’t pay that much, I’ll tell them I identify as a man worth $100k/yr for working in fast food. Let’s see how well that goes over.”

    You are going way off the silly deep end to disprove to yourself something I touched upon. Why?

    @sifrellc
    “Having every thing fit in your frame is great is you can keep rock solid frame.”

    One basic symptom of “insanity” is the inability or refusal to distinguish between reality and fantasy.
    Your frame is fantasy if you refuse to understand or accept and incorporate reality. Frame “is everything” if you are realistic.

    @rubgy11ljh
    “ Anyone who works hard and knows it brings forth a confidence unmatched.”

    True…until the “hard worker” realizes he is enslaved and has been duped into “working hard” for “dreams” that to not “come true” or “rewards” that do not fulfill him.

    Working smart is far better than working hard.

  59. @CaveClown

    ““…I needed so much to get laid that I called a hooker and started bantering with her, she wanted to charge me 100 euro for going to her house… she ended coming to my place for 70 euro. It had the best body I ever fucked …”
    So she invested her time into you, trying to complete the sale. All you had was 70, she wanted 100. Does she walk away with nothing after investing her time? Or does she go ahead and take your 70?
    Hookers are sales people just like any other (saleswomen? Saleshookers? Saleswhores?).
    She made the right choice for her business, by taking what you had.
    Also,
    The full 100 would of got you anal. Just sayin’”

    Good thinking. What came out of this is that this person decided to resign part of her interest to have sex with me. She did not offer anal sex with the 100 euro price.

    And here is where all the anti-hooker guys here are gonna have a massive mindfuck with brain embolism and meltdown: THE WEEK AFTER HAVING SEX SHE INVITED ME TO HAVE A COFFEE. I did not accept because I was still an emasculated nice guy.

    The problem with most people here is that they get into relationships seeing what they can GAIN of them, instead of seeing what they can GIVE. In a healthy relationship, both male and female go in to GIVE.

    Sex with hookers is a transactional relationship, both give according to what they will receive. Far from being ideal, it is more fair than PUA who are liars, scammers and poor people who see giving as something they should be ashamed of.

  60. @lone survivor

    “In a healthy relationship, both male and female go in to GIVE.”

    A man that only gives, and never takes, is a man that has nothing.

  61. “The full 100 would of got you anal. Just sayin’
    …and your name is caveclown. I’m guessing there’s a good story there.”

    I’ll ignore the attempt at an anal sex joke.

    Caveclown was coined by a now deceased buddy of mine that said you have to be both a caveman and a clown in order to be successful with women in today’s world.

    He killed himself over his wife filing for divorce and taking half his company that he inherited from his dad 20 years before.

  62. @Caveclown

    “A man that only gives, and never takes, is a man that has nothing”

    1. That is scarcity mindset. A truly masculine man is valued for his character and his capacity to provide. People go to a truly masculine man because he is a source of wealth, manifested as wisdom, empathy, understanding and resources. That is how true leaders are made.
    2. A man who is wealthy gives and never ends having nothing. Giving is not material, it is in the form of time, patience, understanding, caring.
    3. Like I said: IN HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS BOTH MAN AND WOMAN ENTER TO GIVE. That way, both get their needs met.
    4. Men of value are wealthy because they have worked/studied/forged a business that puts them in a situation where material resources are no longer a limiting factor. This explains why the SMV of a man has its peak at 38 y.o.

    If the SMV of men depended exclusively on physical appearance, then the peak would be at 25 y.o. just like women. however, we see a 13 year delay. WHY? Because at 38 both youth, character and wealth are at their prime.

    And that is why PUA game is bullshit. Men, whether you like it or not, are meant to provide. And women are meant to receive from us and offer love, joy, tenderness, care and children in exchange.

    1. Don’t be so quick to call PUA bullshit.

      PUArtistry is a toolbox; a set of skills and understandings based on Red Pill awareness to be practiced and used to engage women, or in the case of Game, to engage people in life in general.

      Game is applied Red Pill. Without Red Pill awareness and a solid grasp of the underlying principles Game is an act; Game becomes a script to be read by rote (not internalized) memorization.

      Red Pill awareness without applied Game remains an untested, unlived, unexperimented theory. All great and plausible ideas, but Red Pill is just mental masturbation until you take action to apply it.

      http://therationalmale.com/2014/10/09/game-works/

  63. Too many people think PUA is fuzzy hats, elevator boots and black nail polish. Their Mystery Method impression is still based on The Game as if it were some contemporary work, but the book was published in 2005 and based on events that happened 3-4 years prior to Strauss writing it.

    Game is far more evolved than that.

  64. The notion that people enter relationships to give is sugar-coated blue pill nonsense. Men and women both enter relationships solely to get what they want from the other person. The moment that is no longer true, the relationship should dissolve if it hasn’t already. “Healthy” relationship is a term with so much relative meaning as to be undefined. All that is required for a relationship to continue is that both sides continue to have their needs met.

    Blue-pill oriented men are actually deceived into thinking that if they give up what women want, they will be rewarded with what they want. If there’s anything that the manosphere has done, it has demonstrated the folly of that thinking. Women enter any relationship solely to extract what they desire and for no other reason.

    1. @Caveclown
      Hey brother that’s one hell a sad and relatable story. It happened to my uncle but he didn’t take his own life.

      @Rollo
      “Without the red pill being applied it’s just mental masturbation.”
      Yeah that’s me at the moment.

      Self surgery today
      I realized a few things growing up that have become blue pill habits. One thing is a shit test.
      My environment was filled with shit test. I didn’t understand why I was being made fun of. A really harmful beta dad would use femenine insults. Just came back from a 5 mile bike ride and realize how that made it even harder to “man up”
      No reason to complain about the past jus learn from it.
      Something else I have been learning is that I have been around a lot of male hating people. My farther being one of them. By not only encouraging Oneitist but shaming me at attempting to speak with girls.
      I remerber being insulted with femenine insults growing up.
      Ahahaha
      Fuck this is sad. I saw the nirvana doc last night and one thing I could relate to was keeping my mom and dad together even if that meant not ever getting laid.
      Suppose that means I am an incel on principal of keeping my family in one piece.
      A good gilft of the red pill is learning about how bad people will shit test you.
      One thing I found out about myself today goig on a bike ride is that m Mother was really really overbearing.
      I would build something and she would “make it better”
      That really stole my confidence
      Made me think of Jack donovans Mother may I essay
      I do realize that a really found any emotional expression as a threat and would eventually end up in a form of pervasive violence.
      In the Kurt contains life I remeber his hypergamous wife go over how he hating being humiliated.
      I got use that happening but I was never allowed a place to not be emotional aware. I was shamed harshly by people I tried to be open and vulnerable to.
      What I realized today is that te very red pill mindset that is masculine was put in a place tha didn’t evoke heart stomping violence.
      Sex and violence where used early on to remind me how I came last in any conversation or social order.
      I remerber taking my bike across the country and found this sex store called “does your mother know”
      The title was what I remerber because of how close my mother was with me. When I look at my habits from porn to masturbation to social awkwardness one thing stands out that I am just coming to accept.
      My mother as @lone survivor
      Pointed out was the only one that gave me “conditional love”
      But it wasn’t respectful and able to help me navigate the world as the world was.
      It’s really painful to admit this but I think my body and mind got so used to being shit tested that I gave up on my self.
      I stopped acting and just remerberd today that my mom could be harsh as hell.
      We where waton once and she went at me for A good hour in high school about how men are the reason the world is The way it is.
      It’s brutal to think about because it’s not even beta. Not even a dog would tolerate that much verbal and physical violence.
      I think it’s in part why I ind it so damn sad that every attempt I made to god makes to bond with she interferd and mandated they meet her “moral” standards.
      I was alone for that reason because that’s not how the world works. My family didn’t want to be around a male. They hated me so well that brig in social situations would allow me observe and not participate. That part made me happy. Every Sunday on my way to church was hell. It was not only self rejection is was glorified self hatred.
      The 14 yr son who is reminded that his existence is his own fault and that he should be happy hating himself is the blue pill version of me escaping myself.
      What I realized today is that the very people who hurt me so righteously where the one who uses the word “love” the most.
      It’s weird that I am alive at 27
      Something that really stood out about Kurt cobain was how early he tried to take his own life. I can relate
      But what I think from his mom that stood out was how beig vulnerable and sensitive also came with escape b using a buffer such as heroine or something else to cover the pain.
      I did that with porn growing up.
      Man I am a mess least with these essays I got someplace to go without being embarrsed and shamed in bringing in our in the open. I remerber my aunt once looked at me at 16 when I first went to France and te first thing she mentioned was how I was rude for not talking.
      I have a question for anyone here.
      How do you apply the red pill as a farther who maintains a balance in a relationship?
      I don’t know how to do that and I am reminded an almost daily basis how that is my responsibility.
      Going to go for a run next not sure why it’s sonhard to change but I am getting there slowly.

  65. “Game is far more evolved than that.”

    It’s funny how in order to evolve, men have had to more fully embrace their animal/intuitive/biologic/instinctual nature.

    Society would have you believe that evolution is only possible if the opposite is true.

  66. @ Rollo

    I agree. I keep hearing game/pua referred to as an act or pretending to be something you’re not. This completely misses to point of learning how to interact with women and people in general by having a more specific understanding, then taking that knowledge and putting it into practice, making it second nature ( and then first nature ).

  67. If PUA/Game is just a bunch of tricks or an act that doesn’t really work, then state-on-state war/economic negotiation summits amount to little more than magic shows.

    Denial of social dynamics is denial of nature.

  68. @MYG

    Do you believe in hypergamy?

    Of course no gov’t agency went into married couple’s homes and told the wife to divorce her husband for what’s behind door number 2.

    What I’m talking about is the scenario of the husband losing his employment ( and maybe running out of unemployment benefits. There was a time when unemployment bennies did not go on for years ) and the family deciding that they needed some help. If the man was present in the home, help would not be forthcoming.

    You figure out what happened from there.

    And gov’t assistance was not created for black women with children. A little American history would do wonders for you.

    The problem is that the gov’t stepping in to fill the role of fathers and husbands destroyed the family unit because uncle Sam became the provider. When the men in a particular circumstance are not the ultimate controllers of their wives and children, but gov’t agencies are, well, what do you think happens.

    As far as the ” Hardcore Red-pillers ” you talk about, that’s debatable in the current climate of single moms raising sons en mass. But that’s a whole other long winded discussion. Suffice to say that boys raised by single moms think more like women than traditional men.

  69. @ Rollo

    Well, you are actually failing to see one thing: according to the hypergamy principle, game es either obsolete of what PUA considers “beta”.

    A man who works on every aspect of himself does not need to use PUA crap. Why? Because it is what hypergamous women strive to.

    Say you are a Chemical engineer who make 100k net income a year. You do sports, keep a good diet and have an exciting life. Maybe you have your own small house, a decent car and go skying in the winter and surfing in the summer.

    Do you think you need game? Be honest with yourself.

    Do you think a guy like Paul Walker (RIP) needed game?

    Game by itself is a contradiction, it is an attempt of people with no resources, no money and nothing to offer to be at the same level of people who live exciting and fulfilling lives. In other words, PUA are themselves the “betas” they point their fingers at.

    Try using PUA/game to pick up the girlfriend of any NBA player.

  70. @Lone Survivor

    A man who works on every aspect of himself does not need to use PUA crap. Why? Because it is what hypergamous women strive to.

    This is nonsense. You could be George Clooney and women will still shit-test you. They literally cannot help it. They will engage in subtle social attempts to gain mastery over the situation and put you out of your frame. If you don’t know any PUA/Game, you’ll fail those tests and women will leave you.

    Say you are a Chemical engineer who make 100k net income a year. You do sports, keep a good diet and have an exciting life. Maybe you have your own small house, a decent car and go skying in the winter and surfing in the summer.
    Do you think you need game? Be honest with yourself.

    This describes me fairly well actually, and I still need game, lots of it. It has nothing to do with looks or money. Game is about not letting women fail you in their shit testing and social fitness testing.

    1. @Lone, everyone has A Game, how effective that is is open to interpretation.

      There are naturals who’ll tell you they’ve never needed nor applied Game because they had some natural affinity for it. What they’re unaware of is the way they subconsciously apply it.

      http://www.rooshv.com/the-myth-of-the-natural

      The reason he blows you away isn’t because of his genetics, but because of how early he started. A unique set of circumstances threw him into the sex game years before you, during a time he was lucky enough to be surrounded by giggly schoolgirls. By the time you did your first approach, he had already practiced his game on hundreds of women.

      Even the most rank Beta White Knight chump still has an internalized belief of ‘best practices’ he follows and advocates in order to get laid, be intimate and form a relationship with women.

      By your definition, an autistic borderline downs syndrome guy with enough money and/or looks should be pulling tail with the likes of Paul Walker irrespective of social intelligence.

  71. PS 1: A person’s value is measured in terms of what he/she has to offer to society. If a person offers nothing, then he/she is worthless.

    PS 2: if a man does not offer anything, then he has no negotiation power. If she misbehaves you cannot take anything away as you did not gave her anything. Why would a woman care about you if you are only interacting with her to GET something OUT of her? any random guy who tops your offer by adding anything immediately surpasses you.

    1. PS: There are countless examples of individuals who offer nothing to society who are nonetheless held in the highest esteem and value.

      PS2 Guys with this mindset always over look the fact that this exchange isn’t one sided. Any guy who could outperform you and thus take your girl is only a threat insofar as a woman can still merit his attention. If the case is that your woman is above your own relative SMV giving or getting anything shouldn’t be your biggest concern.

  72. @Lone Survivor

    PS 1: A person’s value is measured in terms of what he/she has to offer to society. If a person offers nothing, then he/she is worthless.

    That might be meaningful except for all the stories I personally have heard of natural social alphas with no job and no money who live in garages and managed to pull attractive women DOWN with them. I’ll bet you never considered that aspect of society, did you?

    Why would a woman care about you if you are only interacting with her to GET something OUT of her?

    All that matters to her is that you have something to offer her that she wants, all other considerations are secondary.

  73. Caveclown: “…and your name is caveclown. I’m guessing there’s a good story there.”
    -I’ll ignore the attempt at an anal sex joke.”

    I didn’t realize it was inappropriate to make a quip in response to a reference to booty-glazing a one-benny ho.

    Sorry to hear about your friend, sincerely.

  74. @Blaximus

    Suffice to say that boys raised by single moms think more like women than traditional men.

    Yep. And from firsthand experience I can say it’s an absolute motherfucker to spend the rest of your life reversing that shit.

  75. Of course, elite athletes never get divorced and women disable their natural instincts to be with Hollywood movie stars.

    Awalt man, awalt.

    Very few men have absolutely nothing to offer. Men generally lack the ability to recognize what certain women at differing stages of their lives are looking for.

    Gee, what could possibly help these men capitalize on these facts? There must be a word for that….

    Let me pose a question, what exactly are men supposed to be ” negotiating ” for? The idea of negotiating anything outright with a woman turns my stomach, unless I’m trying to but a used car from her.

    You think you can negotiate desire? Love? Expand on the notion of negotiating please.

    A man does not have to be an NBA player or movie star to have women in his life on his terms. Movie actors and NBA players are just men with a particular skill set and notoriety. Oh yeah, and usually money. Ask a few of them if that makes everything in life a snap and if the women chasing them around are something that they believe is real or situational.

  76. @Sun

    I hear you loud and clear. Nowadays it is becoming the norm. The majority of males I interact with that are younger than me were raised by single moms. It is rare for them to break out of how they were reared. My current woman is a teacher at the pre-K level, and she tells me that every boy in her class sits down on the toilet to pee. Every. Single. One.

    But the good news is, any man can change. Iron sharpens Iron.

    1. I posted this in the last thread, but it bears repeating. The most memorable, most unsolicited and most genuine sexual desire I’ve experienced in my lifetime was whenI was at my poorest.

      I had marginal social proof from playing in some semi-pro bands, I had A look; thin as a rail, cut, long blonde hair down to my ass, but for the late 80s-early 90s Hollywood metal scene that was just entry level requirements.

      Of the 40+ women I’ve enjoyed in this life about 30 of them came when I was at my least financially solvent. These women didn’t care, in fact they were as eager to meet me in my 1 room studio as they were to get a hotel room and call me up the same night.

      The Corey Worthingtons of the world still get laid without having a six figure income, an Audi or making trips to Bed, Bath & Beyond to decorate his apartment.

      You may not respect them as men, but Hypergamy doesn’t care about men respecting men. These are the Alphas who didn’t have to “earn” a woman’s genuine sexual response.

  77. @Blaximus

    We are talking about sex, not marriage.

    High performance athletes get laid as much as they want, whether you like it or not. They don’t even need to game due to two reasons:
    1. they are 1 in a million
    2. they are achievers
    3. they have money

    Have you ever seen a Michael Jordan attending a PUA seminar?

    It is true, all men have something to offer. Then manage to place yourself in a context where your offer is valuable and then be assertive. If you are a clever man who has a sharp sense of humor and can do great word-games or jokes then go to a place where you can talk with people, not to a nightclub where your intellect is muted by shitty music at maximum volume.

    When it comes to a one-night stand, no PUA can compete against a George Clooney, or a Daniel Craig. Sorry, it is a plain truth.

    Wanna talk about marriage? good, you won’t meet your future wife in a club. And if you do, you are likely to file for divorce.

    1. @Blaximus
      I would rather piss my pants than sit on a toilet. Man that’s really sad.

      @Sun wukong
      “And from firsthand experience I can say it’s an absolute motherfucker to spend the rest of your life reversing that shit.”
      Yeah that’s the part that draws me take note in Rollos books…

      (Hope that’s not disrespectful to you Rollo, just helps me think from your view to my own experience)

      @Lone
      It must amazing seening your social skills flourish in person.

  78. Dennis Rodman wrote a wonderful once upon a time. In it, he described the NBA as being shorthand for ” Nothing But Ass “. He described elaborate things women would do to bypass security to get up to players rooms.

    Maybe this sounds all fine and dandy, but look at the large numbers of athletes in certain sports with multiple baby-mommas costing them millions even after their playing days are done.

    I get the allure and mysticism we as society want to bestow on our celebs, But these are just people who as vulnerable to the massive fuck-ups that we are all in danger of.

    1. @Blaximus
      Yeah over bearing shit testing
      Keeps me learning
      “But these are just people who as vulnerable to the massive fuck-ups that we are all in danger of.”
      That we everyone is a gilft here to learn from especially you @Lone

  79. @Rollo

    If you talk about “game” as personality traits a person brings unconsciously when trying to seduce a woman, yes, I agree… it is true. We all have “game”.

    if you talk game in the PUA sense, which is manipulation, lies, and psychological violence, I disagree.

    Do you know what is the problem of PUA game?

    It is adapted to sick environments (clubs/parties/bars). Over time, your game becomes you, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: you only find shitty women because it is the only thing you can attract and retain in your life.

    1. Do you know what is the problem of PUA game?
      It is adapted to sick environments (clubs/parties/bars).

      Still haven’t read this have you?
      http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/19/the-evolution-of-game/

      Your idea of PUA/Game is still based on outdated caricatures. YaReally would be a good guy to read too:
      http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/10/

      https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/

      8. False Premises Hate

      Hater: Yeah, sure, game works well for picking up low self-esteem bar skanks.

      A great deal of hate is fueled by false premises. Concocting convenient scenarios, imagining the worst of your enemies, and reinterpreting their successes are a salve for the burned ego. Newsflash: your thin-skinned indignation is not my moral crisis.

  80. Rollo, I respect you for your honesty. You are a man who openly discloses the number of women he slept with, while other people say “I slept/dated hundreds of women”.

    The metal scene is a different context.

    Oh, and this:

    “I had marginal social proof from playing in some semi-pro bands”

    That explains a lot. Despite the absence of money, you were “someone” in the eyes of those girls. Probably they thought of you as the next Dave Mustaine.

    Something similar happens in a different yet similar context: I have seen DJs who are completely unknown, playing in shitty clubs being pursued by hot girls.

    Allow me to rephrase: it only boils down to resources (money, power, societal status).

  81. “…and your name is caveclown. I’m guessing there’s a good story there.”
    -I’ll ignore the attempt at an anal sex joke.”
    I didn’t realize it was inappropriate to make a quip in response to a reference to booty-glazing a one-benny ho.”

    It’s ok liz i forgive you

    lol

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