Alpha-Beta Communication Modes

communication

I had a really good comment from Rites of Passage from Elooie I’ve been meaning to get back to for a while now:

This post has been here for about a week so this comment might get buried but I was wondering if it would be an interesting post for you to speak to the difference in how women communicate with men they find alpha and men who are their emotional dumpster. (Its been covered in aggregate by multiple posts but not specifically how women frame the conversation)

At my work, I am an expert in not only my field but in our company. Even our newly hired CFO made a comment about finally putting a face to the legend he had heard about (when we met).

Since becoming red pill aware and really beginning to actively observe men and women in the office, I have found that women come to me specifically for career advice, my expertise, leadership and my help to make things happen. They don’t complain, they don’t dump their emotions they don’t ask me how I feel other than to make sure I approve. This defer to leadership (as I call it) has been happening more and more recently (either from my continued awaking to RP or my ability to finally notice)

What made me think to bring this female communication between alpha (defer to leadership for help/decisions) and beta men (let me dump my feeling on you) was a co-worker I used to work with a lot looked out of sort and I made a joke about her being high.. and she almost emotionally broke down when she told me her brother recently died. She visibly choked it down and I changed the subject before she broke down. She was incredibly relieved. In a way, changing the subject gave her strength or at least a distraction. Since then she has tried to be more engaged with me and constantly asking for my approval of what she does. I find it interesting that blue pill men might have wanted to try and help by having her discuss her feelings or try to connect with her and talk about how awful he feels for her.

Another example is a girl I used to sleep with texted me after the election out of the blue about how distraught she was and how the world was going to end because Trump won. (She doesn’t know I prefer Trump to Hillary). In the ramblingly long text she even mentioned how angry and unstable her current boyfriend was over it. All I said back was, “Take a deep breath, its going to be fine.” From that point on she has been trying to re-engage me and always flirty. Its obvious to me she wasn’t looking for someone to have an emotional conversation with..(her distraught beta boyfriend could have handled that) she wanted someone to tell her she was freaking out and pull her back to earth.

Both of those situations in a blue pill world would have triggered the “lets explore how we feel” conversation, but really they didn’t want that.

I’ve written several essays about the difference in men and women’s communications priorities and the importance each sex places on particular aspects of communication. However, most of these simply outlined the dynamics. It’s no secret, even to Blue Pill men, that men and women communicate differently. Men place primary importance on the information or content of what is being communicated, while women put context, or how what’s being communicated makes them feel about the exchange as their primary importance.

This is actually one area of Red Pill awareness you’ll get the least amount of resistance from Blue Pill guys or the femosphere about. Women love to tell us how superior their communication skills are, or how they get so much more from sub-communications that men are largely ignorant of. The point of pride comes from the idea that women tend to communicate more “effectively” than men, because they utilizes non-verbal cues such as tone, emotion, and empathy whereas men tend to be more task-oriented, less talkative, and more isolated. Men have a more difficult time understanding emotions that are not explicitly verbalized, while women tend to intuit emotions and emotional cues. These differences explain why men and women sometimes have difficulty communicating and why men-to-men friendships look different from friendships among women.

The problem with all of this is that it presupposes that women’s communication is the ‘correct’ form while men’s is incorrect because it is more blunt and devoid of nuance. The measure of “effective” communication in a feminine-centric world is judged from a feminine-centric (emotional) metric, not how well information is transferred. There’s really nothing isolating about men’s capacity to communicate, it just doesn’t appeal to a social order that’s founded on what ought to be correct for the Feminine Imperative. As you might guess, a high importance is given to emotion and a capacity to emote in a feminine-primary social order. Thus, emotionalism becomes the benchmark for that order’s metric of “effective communication”.

I’m stressing this here because as western(izing) societies have effectively feminized men for the past 4-5 generations the majority of men (largely Beta) have adapted to learn, and default to, this context-first female form of communication. In spite of men’s neurological differences in communication, their Blue Pill conditioning teaches them that ‘effective’ communication is female, emotive, communication. Although they lack the hardware for it, men learn to alter their communication style to accommodate that of women’s because it is seen as a means to intimacy with women in feminine-primary society. Beta men, as part of Beta Game, are conditioned by the Blue Pill to reprogram themselves to identify with the feminine – a large part of that is learning to communicate as a woman communicates.

Boyfriends and Girlfriends

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

I wrote that as part of my posts on intergender friendships. Women get upset by that quote because it’s unflattering, but true. Blue Pill guys get upset because they see themselves in it and then seek to rationalize how their situation with their ‘girl’ friends is different. But what they both rarely want to confront is that Beta men communicate with women like women. And conversely, women communicate with Beta men in the same mode of communication they are comfortable with when communicating with their same-sex girl friends.

Most Blue Pill / Beta men are largely oblivious to the fact that their communication’s methods and priorities have been conditioned to have them subconsciously default to a feminine-primary, context (feeling)-first form of communicating with women. This is so engrained in Beta men’s personalities that few are ever aware that they do so. It’s just ‘how they are’, and few if any ever give an afterthought to how they communicate with women as women. Many a Beta guy gets very hostile when they have this pointed out to them because it conflicts with their distorted Blue Pill-defined concept of masculinity. So, if you tell a Beta, ‘you communicate like a woman’ the conditioned response then is to question the security of the masculinity of the guy pointing it out and he goes back to feeling good about himself for being evolved enough to communicate correctly – as a woman.

It’s when guys unplug and become Red Pill aware that they begin to understand this dynamic. Most Beta men’s feminine-primary communication mode makes them subconsciously indistinguishable from women’s ‘girlfriends’. I mentioned this in some past essays on intergender friendships, but what happens is that as part of men’s Blue Pill conditioning that convinces them to adopt a personality of passivity, equalism, sensitivity and identifying themselves with the feminine, in most respects they become a woman’s same-sex girl friend. This feminization of the Beta is confirmed for them when that Beta communicates in the same mode as her best girl friends. The appearance might be male, but the hindbrain registers female for her.

This context-primary form of communication is the most common among men (largely Beta) today so it’s literally what women are accustomed to when they interact with men. They become used to being deferred to, used to being communicated with in her own mode. This then sets the baseline for what women expect from men’s communication – they expect him to communicate like a same-sex friend – so when that mode becomes taxed or a guy slips back into his blunt, low-nuance content driven mode it’s naturally an attraction. No doubt, that guy will get called out for being a ‘typical dude’ and shamed for his incorrect form, but it is attractive not only for being a break from the feminized communication patterns she’s used to, but also because it implies that he’s his own mental point of origin. It communicates that he is confident enough not to care about accommodating her form of communication (feminine-primary).

One reason Amused Mastery is so effective is because it forces a woman to communicate on male terms. Amused Mastery implies a man actually has a mastery above that of the woman he interacts with. When a man employs Amused Mastery it registers in a woman’s hindbrain through his unapologetic insistence on communicating with her on his communicative terms.

You’re Not Listening

Women’s biggest complaint about men with regard to communication is that they don’t listen. The common Red Pill observation about this that women only come up with that gripe when men wont do what she tells him to, and that it’s about a Frame grab. That’s certainly true, and especially evident in relationships where a woman presumes her Frame is the dominant one, however there’s a bit more to this. ‘Men don’t listen’ is also a conflict in communication modes. Since men’s communication mode centers on content and information, we tend to filter out the background noise – and most of the background noise that comes about from intergender communication comes from exactly the emotional chaff that women are so proud of in their ‘correct’ form of communicating. Men intensely listen to content, what they filter is unimportant non-content and usually this amounts to the contextual delivery of what’s being communicated.

However, women do filter for that emotiveness, so once again when a man does listen to feelings and identifies with women expressing them women’s hindbrains associate that with a feminine (or feminized) character. Ergo, the association is that Beta men are ‘listeners’, which ultimately is anti-seductive for any man wanting to develop a woman as a romantic prospect. And thus, you become her girl friend.

The Alpha & Beta Communication

So, to Elooie’s point, yes there are communicative differences in the ways women will relate to men they perceive as Alpha and Beta. As you may have guessed, how a woman communicates with you is a very strong indicator of her sexual market value estimate of you. Going back again to Amused Mastery, if you are perceived as an authority of something a woman’s communicative mode will often shift to a more content specific (male) form of interacting. This is particularly so when her need dictates she solve an immediate problem. Women with pressing real-world problems will often confuse men they perceive as Beta by deferring to their particular expertise on whatever it is they believe will solve that problem.

A lot of Beta computer guys know what I’m talking about. A woman communicates with them in her own feels-first contextual mode when it’s all solipsistically about her personal problems, but let her iPhone or laptop malfunction and then she shifts to content driven communication. She does this to solve a pressing problem by shifting the mode of interaction to deferring to him. He registers this and defaults back to his content-driven communication (with not a little bit of pride that she recognizes his convenient expertise). Once the problem is resolved, she goes back to her mode of communication (feels-first) and shames him for being a typical guy if he doesn’t adjust back to her communicative frame.

Another scenario is what Elooie describes. Women who already have an Alpha impression of you will often begin an exchange in what she expects will be your male-centered way of interacting. In PUA terms you might call this a preset buying temperature, but when a woman is attracted to you she is expecting you to communicate as she expects a man will communicate. In fact this is an excellent Alpha Tell if you have the skill to recognize it. In the early stages of interacting with a woman you will notice that playful banter is almost always performed in men’s communicative mode. This is the mode an attracted woman is hoping you’ll insist on maintaining. In fact, I’d argue that most shit tests a woman delivers (at least the active shit tests) are issued in the hopes that you will pass them from within a male-centered communicative mode.

That’s not to say that men’s content-based communication leaves no room for wit or nuance – nothing entertains a woman more than a guy who ‘Just Gets It‘ but also knows how to communicate that he does get it. This is the intergender thrust, parry, riposte of Game. If a man defaults to being Mr. Sensitivity, self-conscious of his every response and reflexively communicates in a female-centered mode from the outset, he gets relegated to Beta status; only useful for convenient chores and emotional tampon duties.

I think it’s a really good exercise for newly Red Pill aware men to put on their Red Pill Lenses and really listen and watch how women interact with men and each other. Make mental notes about how you think a woman interprets the SMV of men as well as the women she communicates with. Watch for the shift in communication modes, see if you can predict the shift when a woman talks with a man you think is Beta and then with a man you think she perceives as Alpha. It’s really not that hard to guess. In fact, we’re really preprogrammed to acknowledge it even in a Blue Pill sense, but with Red Pill awareness it’s educational and entertaining.

Once you get a good understanding of how this communicative interplay shifts according to personality, need, environment and attraction you’ll get a better grasp of the message a woman’s medium is telling you personally. Then, learn to pull your head out of a female mode of communicating and insist on her coming into your mode of communicating. This will be an essential part of establishing your dominant Frame.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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DisgruntledEarthling
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Hypergamy doesn’t care about virtue, faith, hope, love, all the things that give men their beauty, their worth and value in the world. Yeah this. My recent pof 46yo disabled FB dumped me this week (via text of course). My response was “ok”. From the get-go marriage was off the table (for me that is). She was looking for someone to marry and provide for her. I flat out said no at the beginning so the deal was she keeps looking while we date/fuck. After 3 months of persistent ‘no and this is why’ she dumps me say ‘she couldn’t… Read more »

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@Cheupez: “Africans, we don’t feature too much in the science books, you know.” Depends on what you mean by “Africans.” @SFC Ton: “Does deep conversation mean being balls deep down her throat?” It means “letting her yammer on about shit.” “Because otherwise I don’t see the point” Yammering on has the same effect on women as going all out on a heavy bag has on men. Unlike men, however, who do not attribute feeling better to the heavy bag itself, women will attribute feeling better to the man they yammered at. Thus increasing the odds that when she stops you… Read more »

kfg
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“She was looking for someone to marry and provide for her.”

i.e. she was a virtuous woman seeking a virtuous man.

“From the get-go marriage was off the table (for me that is).”

i.e. you are a random bit of biological goo.

” . . . so… Don’t talk to me about virtue.”

Remember, as per above, these words don’t mean the same thing to her that they do to you.

SFC Ton
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Women have no virtue beyond what best suits her. Right now

Masculine virtue is a while other matter, but what most men consider virtue has been corrupted by the FI

mersonia
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As therationalmale comments turn back into the usual manosphere circle jerk

I’m still curious to know if you think RSD’s, now confirmed, move towards the Zig Ziglar/Tony Robbins/Dr. Dyer profit model counts as a “circle jerk”?

DisgruntledEarthling
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@mersonia
Fuck what is with you?

SJF
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@Rollo and KFG Well I just started off the New Year with an entertaining adventure that exceeds any red-pill rabbit-hole adventure that I have had in all of last year. And I had a lot of those. And I frickin love red pill and game. I can’t tell you how much real power I have now to control my circumstances. And it is damn fun. I just finished The Red Queen by Matt Ridley. (it’s long) It pretty much explains all about sexual selection in men and females in concrete “reason’s” why terms. It is Acceptance Phase of red pill… Read more »

mersonia
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@DisgruntledEarthling

I’m Gucci Fam……

SJF
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I also noted that YaReally’s constant reminders of social media and 2016 constant validations for female sexual strategy (hide the vagina) sending him back to the same place he was 6 years earlier in Game. Like he had been running in place for 6 years in a bid to get better at inter-sexual strategy (sexual selection by men and women). The more things change, the more they stay the same because as the different players get better, the stakes or the skills needed to take the stakes are always at a higher level over time, but still giving the impression… Read more »

SJF
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“Should I ban her again?”

Yes.

Reason: It is just plain spam with no attempt to engage in red pill intercourse. She never had, never will. She’s no fun, does not really engage and does not add value.

What’s the downside to banning her again? Answer: None whatsoever.

rugby11
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Rollo
http://illimitablemen.com/2015/09/27/educated-women-vapidity#comment-11947
Perhaps this gives pause to the principle of the Tao
“to oppose is to support”

theasdgamer
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@SJF @all Field Report of more Red Pill validation with girl-talk interpretation and some understanding and growth Was at a country bar last night and saw a couple whom I’m friends with…last time I saw them I was freaked out about her calling me on my land line and the possibility of Mrs. Gamer picking up and creating a shit storm…I wasn’t very nice to the girl because I was in CYA mode and the girl got very annoyed with me… first, I shouldn’t worry about Mrs. Gamer creating a shit storm just because one of my girl friends called… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Given how target your blogging is, I would prefer ban all hatchet wound commenters

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SJF: “Rollo, I’m surprised at your restraint in the Old Wise Guy vs. the PUA debates with YaReally in the past. PUA Game is a complement to Red Pill Awareness deductive reasoning. And there is nothing wrong with it (except for you know what…) By the Ridley book took all the deduction out of the equation red pill equation and made it pretty much inductive reasoning.” Ya lived in “motte and bailey” fallacy land. The Motte and Bailey doctrine originated in a critique of post modernism by Nicholas Shackel. Post-modernists sometimes say things like “reality is socially constructed”. Of course… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Fuck auto correct

Given how Red Pill targeted your blogging is, I would pre-ban all hatch wound commenters.

kfg
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I understand why Rollo doesn’t ban women, and they can actually be quite amusing when they storm in here to tear apart an article, only to exemplify everything in it.

And Liz only gets irritating once in a while.

But that one deserved the application of a prophylactic due to her behaviour on other boards. She was a known pathogen.

SFC Ton
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Liz, and others, are welcome guests at my blog but Rollo and I ain’t doing the same kind of thing.

And I ban chicks who cause problems, try to rebuild the mound etc

rugby11
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Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYcL0wUKAJI

Dance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQRrsfvU-PE

Play

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@ASDgamer You perhaps should put such Field Reports in the Field Report section. Hell, you trying to give Mersonia a stroke. (He’s very sensitive to OMG circle jerks). But at the risk of giving OMG advice and boring every one here, I’ll give it a shot. This is just my interpretation of your field report. It is just my objective observations from my perch. You are trying too hard, over gaming the dancer girl. You had her originally at the word go. “Creepy” is code word for trying too hard to get a girl while others are watching and judging… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ chuepez

Look up ” Ethiopian ” in the bible then look up the meaning, specifically the Greek translation.

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@anon YaReally’s Motte and Bailey and something that Rollo had to disagree with was that looks don’t matter, wealth doesn’t matter, status doesn’t matter. (And it doesn’t for short term lays, but there is the rest of life on the hedonic treadmill). “Game is every thing, stop thinking about everything else”. Not to discount that Apex game is great, but he was using an apex fallacy to discount the value of the huge relative human pre-frontal cortex and crucial subcortical functions in most men when engaging in the sexual selection process. Paradoxically good Game is scheming and humans will scheme… Read more »

Sentient
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BNz8Pu4BNY8

55yo Steve Lyon taking a break at work.

Boxcar
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@insanitybytes22 “I chide him for believing he can teach masculinity, completely devoid of any virtues, faith, hope, love, all the things that give men their beauty, their worth and value in the world. Without these things, you’ve got nothing but an empty, broken praxeology, worshiping the 16 points of poon.” You are looking at attraction as we experience it — a sublime emotion, which can be pieced into a noble philosophy. But the reality of attraction is biological. I did not realize this until I started injecting testosterone (for whatever reason, I am a man who does not make enough… Read more »

kfg
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Blaximus
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He he…

SJF
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Now that you go mention it over and over and over I have no recollection of the time between 35 and 38. Pretty much at all. I don’t revel in it. I don’t have any feelings about it. I wish some red pill brother would have tapped me on the shoulder back then @ age 38 and said: “SJF, I just want to validate all that you are doing these last three years”, cause that never happened ever. (BTW, as an aside, some of my good vibes these days come from validating my red pill buddies choices they are making… Read more »

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“SMV is not the same as LTR or sustained MMV (marriage value).” There are some things that are priceless. Note that word means what it says. Not “valuable,” but “without price.” The Ashmolean Museum’s Stradivarius is priceless. Ralph Lauren’s Bugatti is priceless. The Hope Diamond is priceless. They are merely presumed to be valuable (although there is a good deal of merit to the presumption, as these items are also known to be particularly desirable to people with a lot of money). I have some priceless objects as well, although I presume they are of little value to people other… Read more »

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@kfg
Build a better clovis point long enough … Chrysler Building. That’s pretty much what modern civilization is. It just happens to fall within men’s evolved role. Also the building of complex social organization has been thanks largely to the leadership acumen of men.

All the sexy stuff goes to men. Not that anyone planned it that way…

rugby11
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Rollo
Jesus (I am)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mzzVwci8qJY
IMAX I-330 XX chromosomes
3D D503 XY chromosomes
23 create a human.

SJF
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“…..as these items are also known to be particularly desirable to people with a lot of money.

I have some priceless objects as well, although I presume they are of little value to people other than myself.”

Precisely.

Something we can count on KFG for: preciseness.

But I might change “people with a lot of money” to “people that can discern high value for their own purpose, because they happen to be discerning and the value added over cost is high”.

I’m not writing a prescription for others.

kobayashii1681
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“The problem with all of this is that it presupposes that women’s communication is the ‘correct’ form while men’s is incorrect because it is more blunt and devoid of nuance. The measure of “effective” communication in a feminine-centric world is judged from a feminine-centric (emotional) metric, not how well information is transferred.”

Well said…

As I always say…..Women talk, men communicate.😎

kobayashii1681
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“As you might guess, a high importance is given to emotion and a capacity to emote in a feminine-primary social order. Thus, emotionalism becomes the benchmark for that order’s metric of “effective communication.”

The prioritizing of fem-centric communication imperative is probably what has led to the increase in SJW-ism (?), regressivism, and the decline of scholarship & objectivism in universities in the west and soon the world over…not to mention identity politics especially when it comes to the media.

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@Sentient – Re the small town, difficult to explain without lots of details, but essentially: I had a “standard” job in the Big City. High end professional job, Ivy League education, blah blah. Didn’t like the long term career path, wanted to try something entrepreneurial but vaguely related (I started a business in college and sold it in grad school so had some experience already – it didn’t make me rich but it funded my year travelling after grad school). So I did, about 4-5 years ago. It involved moving here to the small town. Funnily enough the career/work side… Read more »

pinelero
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this post reminds me a bit too much about my own office environment. I’ve been in meetings where the female manager and majority of workers were female, and we just had a meeting where 15 minutes were spent on female subcoms of nuance venting frustrations about schedules. the female manager lets this go on despite it coming out of her budget. I just sit in these meetings making notes on what I need to do at home or for other projects until we get back on point to actually do something instead of emoting. I get paid by the hour,… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
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@SJF think the SMV for women at age fifty has to do with in the dating market (getting with a new girl), not the old wives that you spent 20 to 25 years with and they held up their end of the commitment bargain. As a 57yo OSG, I’ve seen a fair share of hot 50+yo’s on the dating market. If they’ve controlled their weight, taken care of their skin, avoided smoking, and exercised a bit they are indefinably interesting. However, the excess baggage and sense of entitlement are present, which is probably why they are on the dating market… Read more »

SFC Ton
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LOL I live in one of them there super zip codes, full of old money

There is no shortage of professional wives who have aged very well and there is no shortage of men with very well aged wives and side pieces

kobayashii1681
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@Walawala: 😂😂😂😂 older women…

anon
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“Rollo Tomassi, men’s SMV peak, 35-38 years old.

Coincidence?”

I think you’re reaching. LOL.
There is a much more recent example of a charismatic religious figurehead who obtained millions of followers, so enamored with the man that many were crushed to death by masses at his funeral.
Ayatollah Khomeini. He was in his seventies when he came to power (died in his eighties).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k7mpnPJWDo

Fwiw, If you asked my spouse his “best year”, that would be whatever the current year is. My Dad said 50 was the best.

kobayashii1681
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@Gregg: Woman is ‘naturally’ Machiavellian…she is not a master Machiavellian.

kobayashii1681
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@D: Have a look at Rollo’s posts on Phases in ‘Preventative Medicine I & II”
Women have different motivations at different ages/phases.
However though an Alpha would be attractive to both…a beta might be a prospective lock down for an older women.
Although nowadays with Open Hypergamy being more pronounced we’re seeing the beta saddles with the alphas seed, or, the wild oats project phenomenon/FOMO (fear of missing out) – lock down a beta with kids then proceed to fuck alphas (insert divorce rape, cuckolding etc).

Go through the blog…there’s good material.

Lost Patrol
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@kfg
“Men’s vs. Women’s collaborative skills:”
“Where it all leads:”

World history, the short course.

kobayashii1681
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@Cheupez: 😂😂😂 if that was rhetorical…thumbs up! Random thoughts aye?

SFC Ton
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Legit

All women, at all stages are attracted to all alphas. One girl might prefer classic business alpha over bad boy alpha or some such but they all get wet over alphas

They are much more picky about betas.

cheupez
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@Kobayashi
Your comments have been quite thpught provoking for me. Thanks bro.

The interesting thing about this whole thing is that betas make money to take care of girls ((daughters (real or cucked)) so alphas can come and inject their sperm in to them. Hahahaaaaa…

cheupez
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Please Rollo, I meant “thought” on above comment. If you can fix it and delete this comment. Thanks Rollo for who you are to us.

Sentient
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BOqRRQTB8cI

55 YO Steve Lyon looks at the SMV chart and says, “Cool chart bro… Dogtastic! Just remember cats can’t read charts in real life…. “.

Carry on…

Sentient
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Ton All women, at all stages are attracted to all alphas. One girl might prefer classic business alpha over bad boy alpha or some such but they all get wet over alphas The allure of the Alpha Triad – dynamic, passionate and authentic… There is no shortage of professional wives who have aged very well and there is no shortage of men with very well aged wives and side pieces Concur… same in everyone I regularly travel through… Shit my two clubs are a potpourri of of former pageant and sorority girls keeping it tight at the upper range, yummy… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Boxcar

Excellent point about men’s rough communication not hindering cooperation…in fact, rough communication generally assists our cooperation.

Rough communication assists our engagement with one another. (Oh, yeah, Boxcar, fuck off, lol). Humor and emotional engagement often follow rough communication.

Women use rough communication as a push, while men use it as both a pull AND a push.

We men also tend to not live in our emotions, so we can set aside feelings of annoyance or anger to accomplish a task. Women don’t do that very well.

Sentient
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Culum

sounds like a good plan… and a good demonstration of what pursuing The Platinum Rule is like… not immediate gratification, but always working towards the end game. Just don’t get caught in the sunk cost trap if you experience the creeping frog boil of delay… at a certain point you need to just jump. Dynamic coming first in the Alpha Triad for a reason and all…

Good luck.

PS – I did something like this… after 13 years in one biz, jumped into a second and had to start over…

theasdgamer
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“As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.”

“A wise man has great power, and a man of knowledge increases strength. For waging war you need guidance, and for victory many advisers.”

theasdgamer
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@Rollo

Fuck, the Father of Many Nations, Abraham, was 90 y.o. when he started having a family and going into the livestock biz.

Then there’s ol’ Noah, who ventured into shipbuilding at 600 y.o. We are all descended from Noah.

Sentient
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BNihlJrDb9a

For those feeling the sap starting to rise in 2017… from DPA HoF’er Peter Tunney, with a nod to ‘ol JM…

insanitybytes22
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“Jesus of Nazareth, ministry, age 33 Sidhartha Guatama (the Buddha), ministry, 35 The prophet Muhammad, visited by angel Gabriel, 40 Krishna, most popular incarnation, age 35 Rollo Tomassi, men’s SMV peak, 35-38 years old. Coincidence?” Coincidence, yes, and also complete rubbish. My husband has simply gotten more and more attractive over the years, kind of like whiskey aging in a barrel or a good cheese waiting to ripen. Men in their 30’s are often unrefined, childish, and totally self absorbed. There is very little there to be attracted to. Perhaps part of the reason Jesus was so charismatic and drew… Read more »

Sentient
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Stuck in a rut? what to do… what to do…. “After nearly 25 years in the advertising business, I found myself in desperate need of change. No matter how “successful” I was, or how great things seemed from the outside, true success—and my own happiness— continued to elude me. Sure, I had all the spoils of a successful career, but the further I progressed professionally, the further I was moving away from my own fulfillment. I guess it’s just the nature of the beast—the more successful you become at what you do for a living, the further away you get… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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The more IB talks makes one realise she is looking for someone with a disposable life.

theasdgamer
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@cheupez

You’re being totally unfair to IB…she worked in the galleys for love of Arius…then she worked in the mines for love of Spartacus…need I mention Marcus Antonius, Julius Caesar, and the rest of the ancient cock carousel?

kfg
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kfg
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@Sentient: “… if you’re into this kind of thing…”

Don’t like the color on that 356. Don’t much care for orange instruments either. Amber is nice, but not with black.

So I’m very happy just sitting here in my mud hut with my steel wheel skateboard and rusty tin whistle. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

Softek
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Softek
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insanitybytes’ comments just remind me of my religious upbringing, that was simultaneous with all the physical and emotional and verbal abuse I went through that shattered my self esteem. I feel like only people with low self esteem even think of the phrase “self esteem.” When your self esteem is good, the concept of it ceases to exist and you simply act on the Platinum Rule. But all the religious tripe…that has done major damage to me. As I read IB’s comments I find myself remembering ways of how I used to feel: that I should self-sacrifice, that other people’s… Read more »

Softek
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There’s a HUGE difference between “reformed” religious women who were cock carousel sluts in their prime, and religious men who have been incel for 20+ years. Big difference between having your fun, living it up in your party years until you feel like your pussy is going to break in half from all the dick it’s been stuffed with, and then exploiting the forgiveness ideology in Christianity to be “born again” or “reform” yourself, and then espouse the religious ideology, and make it sound like your life is some kind of miracle, or proof of God’s “good grace,” or salvation… Read more »

kfg
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“I feel like only people with low self esteem even think of the phrase “self esteem.” When your self esteem is good, the concept of it ceases to exist and you simply act on the Platinum Rule.”

It don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that swing.

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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I’m a dark train man myself and do not support define Alpha away from narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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I honestly, honestly could not even image my life without cars and guitars.

stuffinbox
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stuffinbox
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Instanttitybites is hungry for a pickle.

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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My dream house is a 15 car garage with a cot and a shower.

D
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D
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Thanks for the feedback koba. I’ve been lucky enough to have read Rollo’s work for a few years now, including the Preventative series (and book). Good call on the the wild oats project phenomenon/FOMO, it’s good for me to be reminded every now and then.

kobayashii1681
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@D: Anytime bruv!👊
I’m also a recentish graduate of Tomassi University. Still learning & applying everyday.
We keep each other sharp here😎

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker
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I think the SMV for women at age fifty has to do with in the dating market (getting with a new girl), not the old wives that you spent 20 to 25 years with and they held up their end of the commitment bargain. SMV is not the same as LTR or sustained MMV (marriage value). Yes. Two different things. The SMV issue is what the wife would be facing if she were to divorce — the mating market. It’s not great for women of 50. The tippity top of them, looks wise (think level of super-toned 50 yo actresses… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Dark Train

Anonymous Reader
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Novaseeker The value of the same woman in a marriage where you have been married to her for 25 years is a completely different thing. There is a certain amount of sunk cost fallacy at work. Last week I aas talking with a couple of real estate pros, and the classic issue of overpricing houses came up. Realtors constantly have to work with people who put a lot of time, effort and money into customizing a home, who know what it should be worth. Unfortunately, not everyone agrees – that garden hot tub in the pool room may have cost… Read more »

Sentient
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Sentient
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Good looking women at all ages are in demand.

Full stop.

Anonymous Reader
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As an aside, this particular topic – the difference between how women choose to communicate with men depending on the women’s perception of alpha / beta status – is a good litmus test. Naturally women are experts on everything, especially other women and men, so some girlies are going to be drawn to this topic like a moth to a candle flame. If nothing else, there’s ant-mound rebuilding to be done.

The rich, sweet irony is obvious: they prove the point.

Anonymous Reader
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No matter how good looking a woman is, there’s probably some other man who is totally, utterly, completely tired of her shit…

Anonymous Reader
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Sentient
Good looking women at all ages are in demand.

Full stop.

Oh, yeah!
Not only that; houses are always a great investment, and stocks always go up in the long run.
Heh.

SJF
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SJF
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“There is a certain amount of sunk cost fallacy at work.” There or may or may not be a sunk cost fallacy at work. That sentence is a premise. It may or may not be an accurate premise. “Good looking women at all ages have value.” Face, figure and youth. Beyond that, Novaseeker points out is that there is intrinsic value in her after fucking her. Sunk cost fallacy, pedestalization, and Blue Pill leanings are connotative assertions for a man’s motives. An objective assessment of a red pill guy can denote her value. Good looking and good value women are… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . that garden hot tub in the pool room may have cost a bunch of bucks to install, what with the waterffall surround and the custom marble pool cue rack, but the market disagrees with Joe Fancypants.” You have any idea how much it’s going to cost to rip that shit out and replace it with something (I think is) less stupid? It doesn’t really amaze me how much money people will dump into a house to make it less valuable. It’s their home and they want it they way they want it, to live in it… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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kfg You have any idea how much it’s going to cost to rip that shit out and replace it with something (I think is) less stupid? Yep. Matter of fact, I do – I also know building contractors. One has a great story about a master suite that featured purple shag carpet…lol…but I am digressing. Yes, costly to fix, but don’t tell Mr. Fancypants who just completely sure that any real man would want that, and if you don’t want it you’re just a real man. The Realtors I listened to don’t know what an AMOG is, but they can… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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And now for something totally gay, new age, blue pill and stating what Inanity22 would love for a TRM commenter to say. On the other hand read the last paragraph in light of how many guys have bailed on a valuable attractive woman because they were not objectively Alpha enough, had not self improved enough or keep up their part of the DPA triad to engage with a Steve Lyons caliber girl. I’m not trying to bullshit anyone. I’m just stating that sometimes a valuable thing slips out of the grasp of a guy that it not up to the… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Good looking women of all ages have value…for sex–not necessarily for a LTR.

SJF
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SJF
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Missed formatting.

Between:

“When a woman is young…

…may be an excellent ally for your journey.”

Everything else is me, but you could have surmised that from the Deida blue pill language and my red pill thoughts.

SJF
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SJF
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“Good looking women of all ages have value…for sex–not necessarily for a LTR.”

For either. That’s what I was trying to explain.

Their value after it is important.

Sentient
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Sentient
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If you want to persist with the “market” analogies… get back to basics… More buyers than sellers = price bid up. Good looking women always have options, because they always have more buyers waiting, because supply of good looking does not equal demand. Simple. Whether “a” guy is tired of her or not is irrelevant to the overall market… some of you may have tired of BRK.A when it broke $50k… or $100k… A 20 YO 9 has options, same girl at 30 has options, same girl at 40 has options, same girl at 50 has options, same girl at… Read more »

Sentient
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Blax / Ton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoOgSVZ8XuM

And make no mistake, there’s women who just wait
For the man and machine with the best time

True enough but not the reason…

Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin’ while I’m tearin’ up the street

There we go… that’s the ticket…

Sentient
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SJF

And then you wonder why Sentient posts pictures of Steve Lyons. He has a purpose in mind.

YEs!!!!

Sentient
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KFG

Some days I feel like I only exist to work for the money to give roofers work.

This is the problem with mud huts.

rugby11
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rugby11
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SJF
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Heads up: There is a comedy series called Sirens on Netflix. It’s adapted by Denis Leary (dry, ironic comedy) and deals with EMT’s and women police officers. It’s half hour segments. It is like red pill Seinfeld. My wife started watching it with relish. It is straight up red pill. And I can’t tell if it is because my wife is in day ten of my friend menstruation, or if my wife is getting off on the series (on me). Over the last year, she has really been more aware of red pill goings on in social and meta-social situations.… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“This is the problem with mud huts.”

Yeah, but mine is a historic Victorian mud hut. Some women invested a lot of time and energy into nagging men to make it this expensively attractive without functional purpose.

anon
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anon
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“Yeah, but mine is a historic Victorian mud hut.”

Does it still have the original old gas flame candelabras?
I know someone with those.

kfg
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kfg
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@anon: This is the new “We’re going into the technological 20th century now” house, in a city that, at the time, was progressive and upwardly mobile on the fast track. It was built fully Edisonified. The old house was cooking with gas. I loved that when I was kid. Although the lighting of the chandelier was my favorite time of day, I had a particular fascination for the wall brackets. I arrived a bit too late to catch the OLD old house, where the wall brackets held whale oil lamps much later than in other places, what with being the… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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Sentient Good looking women always have options, because they always have more buyers waiting, because supply of good looking does not equal demand. Simple. Depends on the market, dude. Whether “a” guy is tired of her or not is irrelevant to the overall market… some of you may have tired of BRK.A when it broke $50k… or $100k… On the other hand, I know of people who bought Enron all the way down to nearly zero, because it was such a bargain, it had to be attractive Real Soon Now. Sunk cost fallacy at work. A lot like men who… Read more »

Boxcar
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Boxcar
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@insanitybytes22 It sounds like you have a great marriage. But for guys who don’t have that, a lot of the conventional advice simply does not work. On a men’s health forum that I frequent, a number of guys have talked about their wives refusing affection. To the men’s frustration, their wives do not even see it as a problem that needs to be solved — so it’s not even a question of talking things out, considering hormones, etc.. I linked to one of Rollo’s essays, but it was clear that these guys had never heard of this Red Pill stuff.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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kfg
I admit that I’m a bit pickier than Ton. I want my 15 car garage to a have low walls and a slightly arched roof that you can go up on once every 10 years or so and throw down a fresh layer of tar to keep it tight.

Another name for that is “bunker”, I believe. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, of course.

Anonymous Reader
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Boxcar, FYI Bytes has changed her story about her “husband” a number of times over the years. If he exists at all, he’s probably Blue Pill and extremely henpecked. Then again, he may have been converted to a bad smell in the attic years ago. It really doesn’t matter.

Because she’s just another aging 2nd stage feminist, probably a Boomer, who is an attention whoring control freak. The only reason I’m writing about her at all is to warn you: taking her seriously is an utter waste of time.

insanitybytes22
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“This stuff works, for men and for women. It’s worth seeing the value in that, especially when the only remaining option is divorce.”

I do see that, Boxcar. I do. I don’t think I’ve ever argued that Tomassi is “wrong” in that sense.

“FYI Bytes has changed her story about her “husband” a number of times over the years.”

Untrue. We’ve been married 30 years now and I kid you not when I say marriage just gets better and better.

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