Alpha-Beta Communication Modes

communication

I had a really good comment from Rites of Passage from Elooie I’ve been meaning to get back to for a while now:

This post has been here for about a week so this comment might get buried but I was wondering if it would be an interesting post for you to speak to the difference in how women communicate with men they find alpha and men who are their emotional dumpster. (Its been covered in aggregate by multiple posts but not specifically how women frame the conversation)

At my work, I am an expert in not only my field but in our company. Even our newly hired CFO made a comment about finally putting a face to the legend he had heard about (when we met).

Since becoming red pill aware and really beginning to actively observe men and women in the office, I have found that women come to me specifically for career advice, my expertise, leadership and my help to make things happen. They don’t complain, they don’t dump their emotions they don’t ask me how I feel other than to make sure I approve. This defer to leadership (as I call it) has been happening more and more recently (either from my continued awaking to RP or my ability to finally notice)

What made me think to bring this female communication between alpha (defer to leadership for help/decisions) and beta men (let me dump my feeling on you) was a co-worker I used to work with a lot looked out of sort and I made a joke about her being high.. and she almost emotionally broke down when she told me her brother recently died. She visibly choked it down and I changed the subject before she broke down. She was incredibly relieved. In a way, changing the subject gave her strength or at least a distraction. Since then she has tried to be more engaged with me and constantly asking for my approval of what she does. I find it interesting that blue pill men might have wanted to try and help by having her discuss her feelings or try to connect with her and talk about how awful he feels for her.

Another example is a girl I used to sleep with texted me after the election out of the blue about how distraught she was and how the world was going to end because Trump won. (She doesn’t know I prefer Trump to Hillary). In the ramblingly long text she even mentioned how angry and unstable her current boyfriend was over it. All I said back was, “Take a deep breath, its going to be fine.” From that point on she has been trying to re-engage me and always flirty. Its obvious to me she wasn’t looking for someone to have an emotional conversation with..(her distraught beta boyfriend could have handled that) she wanted someone to tell her she was freaking out and pull her back to earth.

Both of those situations in a blue pill world would have triggered the “lets explore how we feel” conversation, but really they didn’t want that.

I’ve written several essays about the difference in men and women’s communications priorities and the importance each sex places on particular aspects of communication. However, most of these simply outlined the dynamics. It’s no secret, even to Blue Pill men, that men and women communicate differently. Men place primary importance on the information or content of what is being communicated, while women put context, or how what’s being communicated makes them feel about the exchange as their primary importance.

This is actually one area of Red Pill awareness you’ll get the least amount of resistance from Blue Pill guys or the femosphere about. Women love to tell us how superior their communication skills are, or how they get so much more from sub-communications that men are largely ignorant of. The point of pride comes from the idea that women tend to communicate more “effectively” than men, because they utilizes non-verbal cues such as tone, emotion, and empathy whereas men tend to be more task-oriented, less talkative, and more isolated. Men have a more difficult time understanding emotions that are not explicitly verbalized, while women tend to intuit emotions and emotional cues. These differences explain why men and women sometimes have difficulty communicating and why men-to-men friendships look different from friendships among women.

The problem with all of this is that it presupposes that women’s communication is the ‘correct’ form while men’s is incorrect because it is more blunt and devoid of nuance. The measure of “effective” communication in a feminine-centric world is judged from a feminine-centric (emotional) metric, not how well information is transferred. There’s really nothing isolating about men’s capacity to communicate, it just doesn’t appeal to a social order that’s founded on what ought to be correct for the Feminine Imperative. As you might guess, a high importance is given to emotion and a capacity to emote in a feminine-primary social order. Thus, emotionalism becomes the benchmark for that order’s metric of “effective communication”.

I’m stressing this here because as western(izing) societies have effectively feminized men for the past 4-5 generations the majority of men (largely Beta) have adapted to learn, and default to, this context-first female form of communication. In spite of men’s neurological differences in communication, their Blue Pill conditioning teaches them that ‘effective’ communication is female, emotive, communication. Although they lack the hardware for it, men learn to alter their communication style to accommodate that of women’s because it is seen as a means to intimacy with women in feminine-primary society. Beta men, as part of Beta Game, are conditioned by the Blue Pill to reprogram themselves to identify with the feminine – a large part of that is learning to communicate as a woman communicates.

Boyfriends and Girlfriends

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

I wrote that as part of my posts on intergender friendships. Women get upset by that quote because it’s unflattering, but true. Blue Pill guys get upset because they see themselves in it and then seek to rationalize how their situation with their ‘girl’ friends is different. But what they both rarely want to confront is that Beta men communicate with women like women. And conversely, women communicate with Beta men in the same mode of communication they are comfortable with when communicating with their same-sex girl friends.

Most Blue Pill / Beta men are largely oblivious to the fact that their communication’s methods and priorities have been conditioned to have them subconsciously default to a feminine-primary, context (feeling)-first form of communicating with women. This is so engrained in Beta men’s personalities that few are ever aware that they do so. It’s just ‘how they are’, and few if any ever give an afterthought to how they communicate with women as women. Many a Beta guy gets very hostile when they have this pointed out to them because it conflicts with their distorted Blue Pill-defined concept of masculinity. So, if you tell a Beta, ‘you communicate like a woman’ the conditioned response then is to question the security of the masculinity of the guy pointing it out and he goes back to feeling good about himself for being evolved enough to communicate correctly – as a woman.

It’s when guys unplug and become Red Pill aware that they begin to understand this dynamic. Most Beta men’s feminine-primary communication mode makes them subconsciously indistinguishable from women’s ‘girlfriends’. I mentioned this in some past essays on intergender friendships, but what happens is that as part of men’s Blue Pill conditioning that convinces them to adopt a personality of passivity, equalism, sensitivity and identifying themselves with the feminine, in most respects they become a woman’s same-sex girl friend. This feminization of the Beta is confirmed for them when that Beta communicates in the same mode as her best girl friends. The appearance might be male, but the hindbrain registers female for her.

This context-primary form of communication is the most common among men (largely Beta) today so it’s literally what women are accustomed to when they interact with men. They become used to being deferred to, used to being communicated with in her own mode. This then sets the baseline for what women expect from men’s communication – they expect him to communicate like a same-sex friend – so when that mode becomes taxed or a guy slips back into his blunt, low-nuance content driven mode it’s naturally an attraction. No doubt, that guy will get called out for being a ‘typical dude’ and shamed for his incorrect form, but it is attractive not only for being a break from the feminized communication patterns she’s used to, but also because it implies that he’s his own mental point of origin. It communicates that he is confident enough not to care about accommodating her form of communication (feminine-primary).

One reason Amused Mastery is so effective is because it forces a woman to communicate on male terms. Amused Mastery implies a man actually has a mastery above that of the woman he interacts with. When a man employs Amused Mastery it registers in a woman’s hindbrain through his unapologetic insistence on communicating with her on his communicative terms.

You’re Not Listening

Women’s biggest complaint about men with regard to communication is that they don’t listen. The common Red Pill observation about this that women only come up with that gripe when men wont do what she tells him to, and that it’s about a Frame grab. That’s certainly true, and especially evident in relationships where a woman presumes her Frame is the dominant one, however there’s a bit more to this. ‘Men don’t listen’ is also a conflict in communication modes. Since men’s communication mode centers on content and information, we tend to filter out the background noise – and most of the background noise that comes about from intergender communication comes from exactly the emotional chaff that women are so proud of in their ‘correct’ form of communicating. Men intensely listen to content, what they filter is unimportant non-content and usually this amounts to the contextual delivery of what’s being communicated.

However, women do filter for that emotiveness, so once again when a man does listen to feelings and identifies with women expressing them women’s hindbrains associate that with a feminine (or feminized) character. Ergo, the association is that Beta men are ‘listeners’, which ultimately is anti-seductive for any man wanting to develop a woman as a romantic prospect. And thus, you become her girl friend.

The Alpha & Beta Communication

So, to Elooie’s point, yes there are communicative differences in the ways women will relate to men they perceive as Alpha and Beta. As you may have guessed, how a woman communicates with you is a very strong indicator of her sexual market value estimate of you. Going back again to Amused Mastery, if you are perceived as an authority of something a woman’s communicative mode will often shift to a more content specific (male) form of interacting. This is particularly so when her need dictates she solve an immediate problem. Women with pressing real-world problems will often confuse men they perceive as Beta by deferring to their particular expertise on whatever it is they believe will solve that problem.

A lot of Beta computer guys know what I’m talking about. A woman communicates with them in her own feels-first contextual mode when it’s all solipsistically about her personal problems, but let her iPhone or laptop malfunction and then she shifts to content driven communication. She does this to solve a pressing problem by shifting the mode of interaction to deferring to him. He registers this and defaults back to his content-driven communication (with not a little bit of pride that she recognizes his convenient expertise). Once the problem is resolved, she goes back to her mode of communication (feels-first) and shames him for being a typical guy if he doesn’t adjust back to her communicative frame.

Another scenario is what Elooie describes. Women who already have an Alpha impression of you will often begin an exchange in what she expects will be your male-centered way of interacting. In PUA terms you might call this a preset buying temperature, but when a woman is attracted to you she is expecting you to communicate as she expects a man will communicate. In fact this is an excellent Alpha Tell if you have the skill to recognize it. In the early stages of interacting with a woman you will notice that playful banter is almost always performed in men’s communicative mode. This is the mode an attracted woman is hoping you’ll insist on maintaining. In fact, I’d argue that most shit tests a woman delivers (at least the active shit tests) are issued in the hopes that you will pass them from within a male-centered communicative mode.

That’s not to say that men’s content-based communication leaves no room for wit or nuance – nothing entertains a woman more than a guy who ‘Just Gets It‘ but also knows how to communicate that he does get it. This is the intergender thrust, parry, riposte of Game. If a man defaults to being Mr. Sensitivity, self-conscious of his every response and reflexively communicates in a female-centered mode from the outset, he gets relegated to Beta status; only useful for convenient chores and emotional tampon duties.

I think it’s a really good exercise for newly Red Pill aware men to put on their Red Pill Lenses and really listen and watch how women interact with men and each other. Make mental notes about how you think a woman interprets the SMV of men as well as the women she communicates with. Watch for the shift in communication modes, see if you can predict the shift when a woman talks with a man you think is Beta and then with a man you think she perceives as Alpha. It’s really not that hard to guess. In fact, we’re really preprogrammed to acknowledge it even in a Blue Pill sense, but with Red Pill awareness it’s educational and entertaining.

Once you get a good understanding of how this communicative interplay shifts according to personality, need, environment and attraction you’ll get a better grasp of the message a woman’s medium is telling you personally. Then, learn to pull your head out of a female mode of communicating and insist on her coming into your mode of communicating. This will be an essential part of establishing your dominant Frame.

405 comments

  1. Mysogenists are usually racist! Boot me off your list before stick mine up your arse!
    Sent from my iPhone
    >

  2. LMAO! Gsgosal. You mad bro? Somebody’s been so entrenched in the blue pill that the truth unnerved him. Somebody call the EMT, he’s gone into shock.

  3. Don’t worry JAFYK, I’ll attest at your sanity hearing that there really was someone there.

  4. THis is why it’s critical to start thinking about how to say more with less….using one word texts to respond, slowing down your speech, lowering your voice.

    I’ve been watching Clint Eastwood films…the dude mumbles, grunts and yet everything he says has an edge…there are no wasted words.

    I’m also finding there’s no need to fill the dead air with talking.

    At work I am the one women come to for answers to problems. If they bring up personal problems I cut them off.

    Once in a while I will respond to personal problems but they’re usually questions about some type of expertise: What is the best type of tennis shoe. I’ll say “I’m not talking about shoes with you…” They’ll plead to discuss the technical aspects.

    Alpha speech is also about frame control. I still find myself getting defensive when accused of something either serious or in teasing. When I just agree and amplify…it takes the edge off the teasing/shit-testing.

  5. I’m a red pill aware guy now, this wasn’t always the case. Latley, the last year or so, women have all been saying I really respect you, and I wish you could be my life coach or something similar. This conclusion comes after going out a few times. Eventually she brings up some issue she’s dealing with, instead of being Mr. Fix it. I engage her to look at her choices and ultimately what is she in control of… Herself. Introspection.

    So this last chick disappeared for a few weeks. Hits me up last week like hey let’s go to zoo lights. Before approaching that, I asked where you been the last few weeks? Oh I started dating somebody. I’m thinking OK we were holding hands and trading kisses, wtf happened. Didn’t ask that, cuz I always had a suspicion she doesn’t know what she wants. Evidence from introspection.

    So.. I cut her off. Told her now that she’s with someone else she doesn’t get the same acess to me anymore. It got me thinking , that’s been a pattern lately. I meet a girl she likes the deep conversation but the physical isnt there. In my blue pill days I’d self blame and get all insecure.. I’m past that now. I let women feel the weight of their choices. I wonder if there’s still a blue pill part of me that I haven’t addressed? You know sometimes writting things out helps clear the fog a bit. I’ve been holding back from freindzoning girls I didn’t connect with when we had deeper conversations. Damn… We’ll if you have comments they are welcome. Thanks.

  6. gsgosal-

    Sooo bete sooo upset.

    Sooo eemmooooootional.

    HA HA !! LOL

    Little bitch is sooooo hurt

  7. Rand Hooks

    “You know sometimes writting things out helps clear the fog a bit. I’ve been holding back from freindzoning girls I didn’t connect with when we had deeper conversations. Damn… We’ll if you have comments they are welcome. Thanks.”

    Here’s the deal.

    There is no connecting with women on all levels. The intellectual connections a man is able to make with a woman will never be the same as the ones he can make with his male friends, father, brother. It is not possible. Women are incapable of making the same kind of a connection with a man. They simply cannot empathize with men. They are not men. It is impossible for them to appreciate you the way you can appreciate yourself or the way your male associates can relate to you. You can have “deeper” conversations with some women, a few, but all women inadvertently automatically revert to their normal solipsistic viewpoint every time. I have never met one who didn’t base their relationship with me on what advantage I could provide whether it be sexual or provisional. No advantage perceived, I don’t exist. Abstract analysis completely disconnected from personal effect of outcome, not possible. Women are primarily engrossed with their “experience”; their emotions. This is why Fifty Shades of Grey, etc. is porn for women. Women are born innately addicted to emotional experience, their emotional experience and all the shenanigans they can manufacture to maintain it. It is a realm of experience they cannot escape and few dare to even look beyond. Intense sexual connections and connections involving functional service for security can be made. But forget any real empathetic intellectual reciprocation. It will never happen. In men, emotions get in the way of rational thinking. Women rationalize emotionality.

  8. Cutest chick in office recently lost her elderly uncle or something. A sympathy card was passed around. Dudes for climbing all over each other to tell her how sorry they were. I’m not a cynical person, but jesus that stuff makes me feel like Holden Caulfield.

  9. @RandHooks. It’s not what you said or even how you said it, it’s the position you put yourself in: provider. You’re the provider of an ear, the provider of empathy.

    Without that physical or emotional connection there is no spark of attraction.

    Unless your smv is extremely high just being Alan Alda isn’t going to get you laid.

    You provided an ear and after getting that need met girl went to meet Chad who dumped her. Then she’s back.

    You did the right thing cutting her off. In future catch yourself and ask yourself: am I giving away my attention for free?

    I strike that balance with girls I’m banging or want to bang.

    Until I bang them I’m in tease and amused mastery mode. After we bang I ration it out based on her attention levels.

    It’s hard to get it right. I made mistakes. But a better self awareness is needed.

  10. ” thrust, parry, riposte of Game.”
    Aha! There it is again.

    @Red Hooks.
    I get the vibe these life coach request are them seeing you like a women’s talk show host. As in Steve Harvey. So it may not be all red pill you’re projecting to them.

  11. Rollo-
    I’m honored you took up writing this post. I think you nailed exactly what my observations were and I was hoping you would relay (in a much better way than I could write)… Including links to the relevant posts I inferred.

    After I posted that someone was asking me if I was looking for strategy or something on how to bang these woman from you. While they are in play if I wanted to dip into the work pool again, I was more amused with how the they interacted with me and you hit on the head here.

    Again, I’m a huge fan and this stuff has been eye opening for me. While it has worked fantastic with women and my work life, it’s been absolutely fansinating see this stuff play out in my observations. I don’t post much but I’ve read everything you have written. (thank you Feedly)

  12. “What is the best type of tennis shoe.”

    Doesn’t matter; she wouldn’t be caught dead wearing them anyway.

  13. ” …I’ve been watching Clint Eastwood films…the dude mumbles, grunts and yet everything he says has an edge…there are no wasted words.”

    Lol.

    When I was a little kid my dad took me to every Eastwood flick that came out. When I played ” Cowboys and Indians ” , My ” cowboy ” had a stick/cigar hanging out of his mouth, wore a pancho, and squinted and mumbled.

    …he also shot everybody really fast and multiple times.

  14. One thing that has stuck with me about women is the idea that they don’t want advice, ever.

    Women seem to crave direction or/and assurance. Lately I have been thinking a lot about agency and women’s stated desire to be free to make their own decisions. The surest path to male frustration is to hear a woman’s drivel and make a reasoned recommendation. Have her politely thank you for the talk with an air of “that is NOT what I came here for”. And then the woman will promptly ignore your advice and go on doing what Facebook told her to do.

    In a business setting I mostly cut short the emotional stuff. I don’t have time and I dare say giving the 15-30 minutes of air time to the latest emotional tragedy does not seem to end the tragedies from my more needy employees.

    I’m curt to the point of rudeness. I listen for about 30 seconds. Tell the woman “so you are saying the problem is X Y and Z correct?”. They will mince words around the edges depending on age. The real young ones will argue term definitions like they did in College. Once that is settled. Then I ask “what do you think you should do?”. They say “I think ‘we’ should do so and so”. Ok YOU should do so and so. Decision made, decisive direction set boom off to the next.

    As they leave I pull a Picard Maneuver, “Sally… make sure you do this nicely” or some other platitude to soften the dictatorial direction I gave her.

    And in less than 7 minutes I have saved 23 or so minutes I used to spend listening to their problem.

    Why this works so well is a mystery still to me. They know what to do, why come to me? It does not seem to matter how long I spend. Just that I listened, gave attention, demonstrated understanding. And made a decisive decision.

    They are happy. I’m minimally inconvenienced but I still get queried. As I think on it, could it be tied to the idea that women hate accountability for things going bad? shrug.

  15. “Men place primary importance on the information or content of what is being communicated, while women put context, or how what’s being communicated makes them feel about the exchange as their primary importance.”

    “The appearance might be male, but the hindbrain registers female for her.”

    “One reason Amused Mastery is so effective is because it forces a woman to communicate on male terms. Amused Mastery implies a man actually has a mastery above that of the woman he interacts with. When a man employs Amused Mastery it registers in a woman’s hindbrain through his unapologetic insistence on communicating with her on his communicative terms.”

    “Men intensely listen to content, what they filter is unimportant non-content and usually this amounts to the contextual delivery of what’s being communicated.”

    “This is the mode an attracted woman is hoping you’ll insist on maintaining. In fact, I’d argue that most shit tests a woman delivers (at least the active shit tests) are issued in the hopes that you will pass them from within a male-centered communicative mode.”

    “I think it’s a really good exercise for newly Red Pill aware men to put on their Red Pill Lenses and really listen and watch how women interact with men and each other. Make mental notes about how you think a woman interprets the SMV of men as well as the women she communicates with. Watch for the shift in communication modes, see if you can predict the shift when a woman talks with a man you think is Beta and then with a man you think she perceives as Alpha. It’s really not that hard to guess. In fact, we’re really preprogrammed to acknowledge it even in a Blue Pill sense, but with Red Pill awareness it’s educational and entertaining.”

  16. @wala

    Alpha speech is also about frame control. I still find myself getting defensive when accused of something either serious or in teasing. When I just agree and amplify…it takes the edge off the teasing/shit-testing.

    I got this text from a girl: You sound like a teenager. I couldn’t understand your text. Haha

    My reply: Sorry, mom, don’t have time to chat…gotta do my homework

    My buddy thought that this would piss her off. What do you think? Did I smash the shit test?

  17. so basically women talk a lot but don’t say anything. the same pattern in also evident in their writing.

  18. It can be a tad trickier if you’re keen on engaging with a particularly intelligent woman (for whom I have a bit of a soft spot, assuming everything (else) in its right place). Obviously treating them like they’re just venal and stooopid won’t cut it. That will end with her doing an eye-roll. There’s the job of maintaining frame with focus, after all if you show weakness or dullness you’re just as done as if you’re a feelzy Beta simp. The art is that you must more sparingly and tastefully apply small dollops of Amused Mastery. The good news is, if done right, when presented with a genuine shit test (because the attraction is kicking in), a bit of Bad Boy crudity is just the trick to pass it. To her it’s so unexpected it has the scent of minty freshness. Just don’t trowel it on too
    thick.

  19. @adsgamer. A better way to smash that

    Her: you sound like a teenager

    You: because I always did have a thing for older women?

    Boom!

  20. I appreciate the comments everyone. I don’t worry so much about what I’m projecting to them. The biggest test for me was being true to who I am. In my blue pill days that got lost… I mean really fucking lost. So I spent years getting back to me. Everything I did back then was based on accpetance. How will I be recieved if I do xxx.. I started simple, music, clothes, taking myself out to nice eat spots. What do I want, what do I enjoy? Then, I reached for a different goal. How can I be debt free? I took the steps to get there, riding buses, living in studio apts, living under my means. I was rejected by a ton once women found out I didn’t have a car and rented a studio. I didn’t sweat it, my goal was my focus for me it was a great test. Could I remain true in who I am in the face of what used to be a big fear. However as life goes forward we grow.

    The red pill for me was about stepping away from the need for outside acceptance and fear of rejection. Then stepping into true freedom… Self acceptance. From the perspectives that I’ve gained on my journey I am finding it harder to connect. So I do appreciate the comment about not fully connecting… But if that’s the case then what’s the point? The minute I find myself counseling or giving advice to a woman it’s a turn off. Yet it ways comes to that. The more I learn about women in this context the less I want to know.

    As men who are RP aware how do we abstain from arrogance when it comes to women or do we?

  21. @Rand Hooks

    Welcome to the world of red pill awareness. It stings a bit at first.

    Welcome to the stage of Game Mastery level: Unconscious Incompetence.

    You might want to post a recollection of one of your dates in the Field Reports section. To get some pointers on how you could have steered the interactions differently.

    You need game tactics.

    “Lately, the last year or so, women have all been saying I really respect you, and I wish you could be my life coach or something similar. “

    Respect has nothing do do with attraction so don’t pride yourself on that.

    “Eventually she brings up some issue she’s dealing with, instead of being Mr. Fix it. I engage her to look at her choices and ultimately what is she in control of… Herself. Introspection.”

    You are being Mr. Fix it while trying to claim you are not. You are being a technician. She doesn’t want to look at her choices and find what she is in control of. She wants a man to control things for her. Including her emotions. She wants to be guided, she doesn’t want to guide herself (or else she wouldn’t have the back-story she has). Women don’t want to introspect.

    “I’m thinking OK we were holding hands and trading kisses, wtf happened.”

    She friend-zoned you from the moment you decided that deep discussion was a Game tactic of yours. Try Amused Mastery. (but in order to have that you have to actually be slightly amused and actually have Mastery in Game–and in this instance PUA Game.)

    “It got me thinking , that’s been a pattern lately.”

    Yes. Time to move on to level 2 Conscious Incompetence at Game

    “I’m past that now.”

    You may be, but the girls are not. Frame is not power. You are developing proto-Frame. But you are leaping into the ring of their Frame.

    “I meet a girl she likes the deep conversation but the physical isn’t there.”

    Oh really? She likes deep conversation? Of course she does. It is very comfortable and safe, while meanwhile drying her up like the Sahara.

    This is beta game.

    Did you read the original post and understand what Walawala was saying?

    Since when is comfort level deep conversation a tactic in garnering attraction? Have you ever heard of Mystery Method? You are performing a sequencing mistake in Mystery Method if you know what this means.

    Sequencing Mistake #2 To Start in the Middle

    Middle=Building Comfort. First is Attraction, second comes comfort.

    This is what you are doing–starting inappropriately with deep conversation in the middle. Demonstrate, don’t explicate. And start saying less than is necessary. (Law #9 and Law #4 of the 48 Laws of power)

    Here is an excerpt from this Sequencing Mistake discussion in Mystery Method:

    The Nice Guy

    Many men understand and appreciate that seduction first makes women feel uncomfortable. What they do instead is focus on comfort first.

    What these men don’t realize is that women of beauty get bombarded by these nice guys every day, and it can grow quite tiresome. While not as offensive as the seducer, the nice guy is no less a bother. There are simply too many nice guys approaching them in a day to indulge in the same old lengthy dialogue time after time. Without attraction first, simply saying “Hi, I’m Joe. What’s your name?” will smack of every nice guy before you. Why would a woman who isn’t attracted to you care what your name is or bother to even remember it? Why would she divulge personal information just because you asked?

    The Protection Shield Metaphor

    If a woman is not attracted to you, any comfort building attempt will bore her. Trying to tell her about you, get her to talk about herself, or complimenting her before she deserves it are all comfort building attempts. If you’ve ever been trapped in a conversation with someone you were not interested in talking to, you’ll understand how uncomfortable it can be.

    Imagine this happening to you several times a day, almost every* day, for many years. Wouldn’t you recognize the need to shut these people down before they even got started? Over time, as a woman interacts with ever more nice guys, she begins to evolve simple vet effective strategies for countering this barrage of bore. Collectively these strategies make up what is metaphorically called her protection shield.
    Middle Ending

    Comfort first’ telegraphs sexual interest

    Simply by approaching her and being nice, women of beauty assume you want something from them. If she doesn’t think you are selling something (or begging for change), she’ll reason it’s because you want to win her sexual favor. Even if you aren’t interested in her sexually, she’ll assume you are, just because you approached her in the same manner as the last half-a-dozen nice guys did that night.

    Him; Nice boots

    Her; I have a boyfriend

    Most men mistake these short-term defenses for long-term personality flaws. This quite often turns men off and it is for this very reason that these strategies work. From them, it’s better to allow a bunch of men she doesn’t have attraction for to think she is a bitch than to have to sit there and listen to them all.

    Him: What’s your name?

    Her: Get lost

    Some woman may tolerate mildly entertaining nice guy dialogue, but once the conversation begins to grow mundane, she’ll excuse herself. Persistent nice guys will meet greater resistance as she becomes weary of his prolonged presence. Although playing a bitch can become a form of entertainment for some, most women with protection shields use them for good reason and are otherwise very nice people.

    Him; Hi, how are you?

    Her: Look, I’m not going to have sex with you.

    If you don’t take the time to attract a woman first, you won’t give her a reason for her to want to even have a conversation with you. This will force her to raise her shields. Keep comfort building to mid-game, and don’t prematurely begin in the middle.

    “I let women feel the weight of their choices. “

    Now you are just being mean. And now she is getting dryer than the Ghobi desert.

    “I’ve been holding back from freindzoning girls I didn’t connect with when we had deeper conversations.”

    Too late. They have already friend-zoned you before they don’t care that you might not reciprocate friends with them. At this point they have other options.

    You are red pill aware. You need to learn some game.

  22. I don’t know how to edit my comment but I definately have to un-learn providing. It’s a mental game now. I’m getting there like a poster said previously more self awareness is key.

    I wanted to acknowledge I saw and understood that.

  23. @Rand

    I composed that last comment before I saw your 8:52 pm comment.

    You simply need to be better at Game. 90% of red pill is making yourself better. At this point it is a “it’s you, not her” moment that you have to be masculine enough to hear and be comfortable with red pill criticism. If you can’t accept that, then work through the phases of grief: denial, anger, bargaining and depression and get to acceptance of the fact that masculine self improvement is needed in yourself to the point that you are actually attractive to women.

    It is a process. It’s not easy nor is it quick. But the manosphere is here to help you. It’s just a jungle though, so sometimes you need a guide on where to start and what to read. It would help if you went to field reports and told something about what you know about yourself. How you got here, and what are you trying to do about your situation. Prescriptive advice doesn’t flow easily without some knowledge about where you stand, how much you know and what skills you have.

  24. “As men who are RP aware how do we abstain from arrogance when it comes to women or do we?”

    If you are not getting laid regularly, then you might want to kill your conceit, pride, self-importance, egotism; pompousness, pomposity, imperiousness, and hubris.

    The red pill informs you of reality, Game informs you of sexual strategy.

    You got not business being arrogant if the women are not coming to you and compromising their sexual strategy for yours.

    Otherwise you are just buffering your hurt.

    Don’t revel in winning a skirmish or a fight, only to lose the battle.

  25. @wala

    @adsgamer. A better way to smash that
    Her: you sound like a teenager
    You: because I always did have a thing for older women?
    Boom!

    How about: Cuz ur a cougar?

  26. Correct observation but what do you think is the reason?

    You acknowledge that women are better in communication, which means that their way of communication – indirect, supported with intuition is vastly superior. In machiavellian terms – this is the communication of the master.

    Yet they expect from men direct, overt communication – inferior communication?

    How it goes along with your theory of women wanting men superior to them? The truth is the opposite.

    Man with emotional inteligence – superior skills and high intelligence has to be very careful..he must pretend that he is classic inferior masculine robot. You must show some holes in your psyche into which she can sink her hooks. Otherwise she becomes uneasy. You cant show you superiority in those realms – once you show it she backs up like a vampire from crucifix.

    This is the reason why you should with utmost care, CONCEAL any signs of superiority and knowledge in a field which directly threatens her mastery – red pill – relationships, psychology, communication, sexual control over your libido, etc.

    You have to appear classic male robot – aggressive, sex obsessed, direct, resolute, promiscous, without fear, ready to kill and let yourself killed…good doggy. You will be excellent slave – protector and provider for me.

    Women prefer less inteligent, robotic – aka aggressive men. They make better slaves and husbands. More intelligent man with high EQ threatens her superiority. He could see through her strategy and use and abuse her. She does not want this to happen.

    Its hard to confess, I know….that we have to behave and pretend we are animals to be more attractive to women. But its truth folks believe or not.

  27. @Gregg

    You acknowledge that women are better in communication

    Where did any RP man say any such shit?

    In machiavellian terms – this [indirect] is the communication of the master.

    No. This is the style of women and of aware men who are courting them.

    The rest of your comment follows these erroneous point, so, doesn’t require a reply.

  28. My employees can´t allow to be indirect…they have to be direct, open, transparent.

    I can allow to be indirect..they shall placate me and prove that they are worthy.

    Women survíve through communication…this is the tool which enables them to catch suitable, stronger provider and sacrifice him for her well being.

    If man does not acknowledge this fact – he is doomed to failure. Rollo has to repeat simple things again and again and again to educate men about what woman means when she says this or that, what women want, etc. He even made a business from it.

    This very blog as well as your comment prove inferiority of men in communication. Men communicate with women yet they do not know shit about them. Where is their superiority? What they understood about women from communication? How “effectively” they communicate when you don´t know what women want?

    They do not understand their opponent yet they believe they are superior. Manly ego 🙂

  29. “Yet they expect from men direct, overt communication – inferior communication?”

    No, not inferior. Masculine. There’s something instinctively repulsive to women about a man who communicates like a woman (passive aggressive behavior, open fretting, oversharing details of his personal feels).
    That’s not so terribly hard to understand, is it?

    In the eighties, an (ostensibly) “very ancient” but “perfectly preserved” statue was presented to the Ghetty museum, at a bargain price of 10 million dollars (were it authentic).
    They took the statue on loan and went to work investigating. There was a stack of legal documents ostensibly verifying the statue’s authenticity and history. Geologists examined it using high tech instruments (a high-resolution stereomicroscope, electron microscope, electron microprobe, mass spectrometry, X-ray diffraction, and X-ray fluorescence).
    The statue was made of dolomite marble from the ancient Cape Vathy quarry on the island of Thasos, and the surface of the statue was covered in a thin layer of calcite (which the geologists thought significant verification that the statue was likely ancient). They displayed the statue and were in the process of buying when a seasoned art historian who had seen many many ancient statues looked at it and within seconds determined that it just didn’t quite look right. He couldn’t put his finger on it. A few other historians concluded that same, and they shipped the statue to Greece so the world experts could look the thing over. To a person, all the top experts concluded the statue was a fake. They didn’t know how they knew, they just knew. Statue turned out to be a fake.
    Human communication is a lot like the example of the Ghetty statue.
    Girl mannerisms and sheepishness are interpreted as weak. And there are often body language/microexpression “tells” that are hard to place one’s finger on, but they are there. The woman doesn’t know WHY she is making the interpretation she is making (99.9 percent of the time anyway, people don’t typically think about this stuff).

  30. @Ads “cuz you’re a cougar”…is insulting…and you’re not playing along and riffing off the “teenager” shit test.

    Here’s an example just today from my own texting. Girl is HB7 22 year old I met online and banged same day I met her. We had drinks, took her home, we cooked, then we banged.

    She texts me today, 2 days later:

    Her: “Are you dating anyone else”

    Me: you’re a curious cat. how about asking me how my day was?

    Her; lol…. how was your day?

    Me: boring question

    you see how I’m playful, leading, teasing and not answering directly?

    With texting think banter, think how to sexualize, think how to spark a tingle by surprising her.

    “cougar” is too close to home.

    “because I have a thing for older women?” she’s obviously younger than you so the teenager shit-test is perfectly parried.

  31. “No, not inferior. Masculine. There’s something instinctively repulsive to women about a man who communicates like a woman (passive aggressive behavior, open fretting, oversharing details of his personal feels).
    That’s not so terribly hard to understand, is it?”

    Nope it isn´t yet you do not understand it.

    Its not “something instinctively” repulsive. Theese terms like “something” and “instinctively” only serve to fuck with your reason. To prevent you from seeing pattern and tactics behind it.

    If man communicates this way – it means that he thinks about his feelings, he thinks that they are “important”, he might have emotional intelligence and he might want from woman that she takes care over HIM! He focuses light on HIS feelings not HERS. Biiig no no! Feelings of a slave are not important..every married guy will tell you about “concern” his wife has for his feelings. Feelings of king, master..they are importnat not feelings of a soldier. Soldier has to be without feelings, without soul, without heart – he has to fix, work, placate her, take care for HER, fuck her..period!

    “Girl mannerisms and sheepishness are interpreted as weak. ”

    Are tantrums of a child “weak”? This little creature needs to have power over his parents so that they keep taking care for him. So it uses tantrums to get what it wants. Parents are not allowed to have tantrums when it comes to taking care and providing for their child. Their feeling are unimportant, they have the work to do.

    Its the same with men. You are not fucking allowed to have tantrums, moods, etc…you have to be firm, strong, without feelings and emotions. You should take care and serve for her.

    She does not understand why she does it? You are fucking kidding me. Real sample form real life – fucking repeated.

    Divorce. They have common house. Wife provokes her husband, so that he slaps her. Repeatedly. Theny she calls police, then police bans the husband from his house, then she robbs him of children and property, then this poor fellow commits suicide.

    After that at burial – she hysterically cries that even though he beated her – ooo pooor woman, he has been the loove of her life – so that she saves face and provokes sympathy of others. Then she finds another man – and she is the sweatest and most innocent woman to catch him.

    I know she didn´t know WHY she behaved that way. Only the result is that she effectively destroyed unacceptable provider, robbed him of all he had and acquired new one. Master strategy!

    Woman is MASTER machiavellian, folks. She only pretend to be weak and unstable..cos it inspires caretakíng instincst and placate stupid ego of a man, it lowers his defences.

    Ok, my two cents.

  32. Who cares how they communicate? Their bullshit isn’t your bullshit and the commanding officer doesn’t spill his candy in front of his subordinates or let his subordinates drive his mission

    You are talking to them with a purpose and that purpose is banging her. Msybe for the 1st time, maybe for the 100th time. Yes some times you need to level out her emotional bullshit but deeds not words

    You manage her life, in such a way she supports your mission and adds value to your life

    Everything will fall into place once you have that shit straight in your head

  33. “You manage her life, in such a way she supports your mission and adds value to your life”
    We become compliments to one another. I first we second.

  34. “Are tantrums of a child “weak”? This little creature needs to have power over his parents so that they keep taking care for him. So it uses tantrums to get what it wants.”

    I’m not sure how to reply…so here goes. Kids have few coping mechanisms, so they strike out physically, emotionally. The competent parent gives them what they need, not want, and deny both with bad behavior immediately. Parenting requires direction with a little provisioning thrown in. No, the child doesn’t have power over the parent, the parent sees the bigger picture and tolerates the instability, eventually building a competent adult. The parent must remain the driver’s seat, allotting greater responsibility over the years. At some point, around 13-15 y.o., the child is essentially an adult. The parent’s job is to hand off the torch as fast he can. This applies more to boys than girls. Girls need a different skill set, mindset.

    Similar to emotional women (redundant), bad behavior must be punished immediately too. The torch must remain with the man tho. Alpha guys always have the torch. Your comment assumes parenting is Beta.

  35. “They have common house. Wife provokes her husband, so that he slaps her. Repeatedly.”

    The scenario plays out more realistically as such:

    Alpha guy beats wife, she calls cops, he’s arraigned but she takes him back. Charges dropped.

    BP guy doesn’t understand her, so that SHE slaps HIM. Repeatedly. Theny she calls police, then police bans the husband from his house, then she robbs him of children and property, then this poor fellow commits suicide.

    After that at burial..

    BTW: Yeah, it can feel personal. This isn’t boys vs. girls here.

  36. Women In Different Age Groups:

    Does a young woman in her Party Years talk to an Alpha/Beta differently then a Post-Wall older woman does, or is it the same?

  37. Gregg

    You trollin brah?

    Its the same with men. You are not fucking allowed to have tantrums, moods, etc…you have to be firm, strong, without feelings and emotions.

    Not true. In fact it is a good thing every so often to rattle things with a little more emotion. Just be aware a little goes a long way. My wife has long considered “no” to mean yelling at her… LOL So keep her hopping, season in a little vinegar with everything else. Unpredictable and with the potential for volatility is sexy… again in measured doses.

    works a treat on kids too… rattle the cage now and then.

    You should take care and serve for her.

    Why so angry? let it go.

  38. “… rattle the cage now and then.”

    Speaking of that dead, Italian schemer; it is better to be feared but not loved than it is to be loved but not feared.

    In measured doses.

  39. Gregg, and SJF offered some good insight.

    SJF,

    Letting women feel the weight of their choices isn’t mean. It should be the natural way of things, a woman doesn’t get to put expectations on me if she chooses to be with someone else. First thing is the energy doesn’t match up, when that’s the case I gotta go, that’s my code. Spending time with a woman where she thinks I’m just a girlfriend, and I’m looking for more than friendship is dangerous. At that point I’m allowing her to dictate my role to me. Nope. What I’ve learned is I can put boundaries on women, the same as they do men. Boundaries are healthy, they might seem mean but I’m not being taken advantage of. That is a priority for me.

    Gregg,

    When you talked about concealing intelligence man I related to that a lot. I remember for years wishing I was a dumb guy. Women love to manipulate those guys. That’s the rub for me, I hate the idea of being manipulated but I like doggy style all the same. Riding the bus I see it all the time with guys, doing whatever they have to do to get pussy. Putting up with some awful shit. It’s so fucking sad, I just want to tell those guys you’re better off alone man.

    When I run into the adventurous women I like, I need to learn to conceal a bit. One of my main goals coming into this new frame of mind is playing to my strengths. When I do talk about what’s beneath the surface, I’m partially introverted and that’s my nature. I’m not doing it to impress her. I’m past that shit. That’s doesn’t excuse me from being more self aware. It’s interesting hearing other guys at bars talk about women. You can see he’s out of his comfort zone and she’s not even there. It’s sad, I want to ask why are you jumping through mental hoops of fire worried about texts back and what not. Listening to guys like this, then watching how women will manipulate guys none of that shit interests me. I’d rather hit the gym, cook a good meal and fire up a good book and some whiskey or my PS4.

    People asked for field data…

    There’s not much out there, I have to add that after 11 years at my job I’m quitting in August to go to college full time. I want to be a teacher. That’s a perk of the debt free goal, I can quit my job live on campus and be a student for a few years. I’m not really looking for a relationship, I wasn’t honest with myself on that one. I have to flow in that energy.

    Here’s something,

    There’s a girl we will call her K, she’s cute af and is studying to be a doctor. I’m going away in August she’s going away in July for some accelerated coursework. NYE, she invited me over had a big party. She disappeared before 11:30 am. I didn’t think much of it. Her sisters were all over me, and flirty/curious about me. One of them stated oh K she’s fucking some guy right now and looked at me for an extra second. I’m thinking shit test, I played it cool. Saw K yesterday, asked her what happened to you, I was looking for you at midnight. She said she passed out, I was like ah I knew it. Your sister was fucking with me, she said you were fucking some guy. K got angry, then hit me with excuses I don’t remember, oh my gawd I was blacked out I need to call my roommate. I’m thinking usual hysterics when women want to cover up shit they don’t want a guy to know. Eventually she admitted there was a guy. I felt a twinge damn I missed my opp for about a second, followed with a whatever. I’m a keep it moving forward. We met on the bus, she’s came out and drank with me once before NYE. My feel for the situation keep it causal, next time were out together create some sexual tension and see what happens.

  40. “Should I bring it up that I don’t view this as exclusive?”

    No.

    “There is a little voice in the back of my head that thinks I might be misleading her . . .”

    If you feel like you must communicate this to her, do it in indirect, womanese. Leave a pair of earrings on the bathroom sink. Then it’s up to her if she wants to have The Talk:

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/06/06/the-talk/

  41. @Rand, sorry, man. That Asian girl invited you to a party, leaves, and then fucked some other dude. Then you actually asked her about if she hooked up with someone else? That’s something a butt-hurt beta would do. And now you are talking about “creating some sexual tension” after she’s put you in Friend Zone? She’s long gone. Better to try it on a new girl, and reread Rollo’s best of year 1 posts, especially the stages of unplugging.

    Some of your language:

    “First thing is the energy doesn’t match up, when that’s the case I gotta go, that’s my code.” Code? That’s way too serious. Just have game. No code needed.

    “At that point I’m allowing her to dictate my role to me.” Dude, she’s just a girl. She’s pinging off of your vibe. Your vibe and your game dictate your role.

    “What I’ve learned is I can put boundaries on women, the same as they do men.” Getting even, are you?

    “Boundaries are healthy, they might seem mean but I’m not being taken advantage of.” You don’t put out the hookup vibe, so they don’t treat you like a hookup, and you view this as taking advantage of you?

    “Listening to guys like this, then watching how women will manipulate guys none of that shit interests me. I’d rather hit the gym, cook a good meal and fire up a good book and some whiskey or my PS4.” But here you are on this forum, right? You’ve got half your mind in MGTOW land, and half in bitter hope. Read Rollo’s archive.

    Congrats on the debt freedom though. That’s good stuff.

  42. Women yoyo too much. One moment she is playing so hard to get, the next she is taking your dick up her ass like she is gunning for the best article in “The Annals of Attacking the Rear.” Many of the times it is beyond our control. It may also be beyond her control. She just cannot help how she feels. She doesn’t want you. It is a bad day. Then suddenly she wants you to tears.

    Good day. Bad day. Bad day. Bad day. Good day. Good day. Good day. Good day. Bad day. Good day. Good day. Bad…

    Sometimes all we need to do is see if we can decipher. And move on swiftly when need be.

  43. Newlyaloof- There’s clearly a lot I need to wade through yet. I’m looking at what you are saying and fucking A I have to laugh a bit at myself. I got work to do and I’m good with that. I’m glad it’s this kind of work, after doing the heavy lifting of fixing more personal issues this is kind of fun. After I discovered MGTOW I hired a nutritionist, financial advisory, guitar lessons, cooking lessons. All of it was geared towards me, building myself, good coping skills and what not. This, is a bit different.

    That’s why I’m here, I never want to stop learning. I’ll read some more of the literature people are offering. I know I’ll create better results for myself.

    No excuses, no explanations I’ll get it. Thanks for giving it to me straight, it’s good to get out of my own head.

  44. @Fred Flange, with the smart girl blind spot

    It can be a tad trickier if you’re keen on engaging with a particularly intelligent woman (for whom I have a bit of a soft spot, assuming everything (else) in its right place). Obviously treating them like they’re just venal and stooopid won’t cut it.

    how that FI treating you?…lol

    actually that’s exactly how you SHOULD treat smart girls…( or at least that she’s irrelevant…lol)

    That will end with her doing an eye-roll.

    you know that’s a shit test, right?…lol… bc you spiked her attraction/arousal algo (= AF)… BY treating her like she’s venal and stooopid…(ie like she’s ‘just a girl’…lol)…

    There’s the job of maintaining frame with focus, after all if you show weakness or dullness you’re just as done as if you’re a feelzy Beta simp. The art is that you must more sparingly and tastefully apply small dollops of Amused Mastery.

    bc she’s NAWALT?…lol…

    The good news is, if done right, when presented with a genuine shit test (because the attraction is kicking in),

    you mean like an ‘eye roll’?…lol

    a bit of Bad Boy crudity is just the trick to pass it. To her it’s so unexpected it has the scent of minty freshness.

    that’s true for any ‘toxic masculinity’…lol… as long as you own it like a boss…

    Just don’t trowel it on too thick.

    only if you don’t want maximum attraction…lol… or you’re calibrating to her smv…

    good luck!

  45. Ehintellect: ““Are tantrums of a child “weak”? This little creature needs to have power over his parents so that they keep taking care for him. So it uses tantrums to get what it wants.”

    I’m not sure how to reply…”

    You could start with a simile:
    1) He whined like a bitch.
    2) He whined like a little school girl.
    3) He whined like a boss.

    One of these statements doesn’t follow.

  46. I agree with Gregg on one point: women know exactly what the fuck they’re doing when they’re destroying other people’s lives- hell, just destroying other people’s days.

    They’re not just on autopilot. It’s not “neutral” in terms of intent/motivation. I think it’s too simple to say they’re just being girls as though they’re innocently ignorant of their dark side.

    Listen to women talk amongst each other, not how they talk to you or any man for that matter. They’re hateful beasts when you really observe womens’ intragender communications.

  47. @Fred Flange, with whom I share a taste for smart girls

    @HABD, because he’s there 😄

    NB: All my loves have been smart STEM girls…all feminine, too, except their hair wasn’t long and they wore pants…but their warpaint was always killer and they had the most delicious voices

    FF: Obviously treating them like they’re just venal and stooopid won’t cut it.
    HABD: how that FI treating you?…lol

    (LOL, someone should have told me not to actually call Mrs. Gamer “stupid” a loooong time ago.)

    HABD: actually that’s exactly how you SHOULD treat smart girls…( or at least that she’s irrelevant…lol)
    That will end with her doing an eye-roll.

    …or maybe throwing scalpels at you…or her panties

    NB: Girls’ panties often stink, so you don’t want to wear them on your head, unless you’re stinking drunk

  48. Verbal communication with a woman is overrated.

    Never give a fuck about her or any problems in the relationship ( she doesn’t about you )
    She doesn’t want you to solve her problems anyway she just wants to emote and be a girl. Let her!

    Just do you! and most likely everything will turn out just fine, and if not at least she will respect you.

    Respect mixed with lust/admiration is the best outcome you can expect from a woman.

    As Rollo says we should demonstrate not explicate and with women the medium is the message, never listen to what they say anyway most of what they say is machavellian manipulation, watch what they do instead this will better belie her true intentions/desires.

    Be charming but with an Idgaf attitude and treat them as for entertainment purposes only, you’d be surprised how long they will put up with this for the chance to tame their Alpha.

  49. Cheupez –

    Yes. Bad day, weakness, cowardice, fear, potayto/potayto.

    The key I’ve found is to smirk and/or amused mastery that communicates “you’re pathetic”.

    Had one of these types last night. Deliberate push-pull “you’re attractive, but wahhhh I need more attention, you chase me now” stuff. No, silly bitch. Beneath me.

    Never resort to beta communications when she’s like that. Never even acknowledge her mood.

    And never, ever ask her “what’s wrong” or “what’s going on”. Not worth caring about and a surefire pussy-drier.

  50. @habd

    If I hadn’t made this work with successful replications I wouldn’t share it. But everything else you say I had to learn the hard way over time. You correctly note that an eye-roll in response to a classic neg is (and has been and evermore shall be) the desired response. My point is that telling her she’s STOOPID won’t produce that consummation devoutly to be wished. Just as any butthurt Nice-Guy-Of-OKCupid insult would be, as they say, contraindicated. So is being genuinely STOOPID yourself. Playing STOOPID and (somewhat) rude as part of the set and negging, however, works just fine. Like with any routine, you can’t over do it though.

    Also agree that, depending on the personality of the brainiac-ess,, more bad-boyishness is the indicated treatment and I was as surprised as any newbie once I finally got that through my SNAG-skull and it produced results.

    But I was so much older then, I’m younger than that now. Took a while but I got edumacated. If the smart gal is still sure she’s ALL THAT, next; if she has no interests or skills beyond her area of expertise, next; if she can’t take a joke, next; if she’s super PC (same thing really), next. That’s the problem with having the smart-girl blind spot – sometimes it turns out they’re too “smart” for my own good, in which case, next. I made all of the mistakes you cite when I started out, so, like, yeah.

  51. @Sentient

    The truth terrifies you. Enjoy your denial.

    Or paint us another bullshit Andy Warhol scene from the holidays. The last one amused me.

  52. @ Joe K

    A female’s hindbrain functions on autopilot. She doesn’t question it. It’s this hindbrain that men don’t appreciate. Hence watch what they do, not what they say. There are workarounds, though.

    Generally, there’s no darkside. They just are. Destroying a person’s life is Hypergamy, if that’s suits her ends. It’s not destruction, she’s exercising options. Natural prevarication is hard wired. True today, isn’t true tomorrow. Her reality is what she thinks it is at that time. My, your opinion is irrelevant.

    Oh, and you give women too much credit. They certainly do NOT know what there doing. They emote. That’s it. They generally fuck up everything of gravity carte blanche given to them.

    I see it everyday here. This place would be a 100 million-dollar morgue with women running it. don’t know you much but perhaps you too have you seen a woman fall to pieces over a sharp comment when someone’s life is on the line, with hands in the head, mascara running down? It’s always the woman, not the guy. Between fouled up bf’s, husbands, her cycle and God know what else, there are mini meltdowns here every week.

    This isn’t us vs. them.

  53. @Play

    she just wants to emote and be a girl. Let her!
    Just do you!

    Me being me is ignoring all the emotional bullshit and being a dick…but you gotta throw ’em a comfort bone every now and then or else you get a shit ton of ASD/butthurt, even after decades of marriage…ask me how I know

    (Ton does this, too, a lot more than me, I’m certain. But Ton is a nicer guy than I am. Probably handier to have on your side in a firefight, too. XD)

  54. @FF, who needs patience

    My point is that telling her she’s STOOPID won’t produce that consummation devoutly to be wished.

    Actually it, will, but only when you make up…and the sex will be smokin’

  55. ” They’re not just on autopilot. It’s not “neutral” in terms of intent/motivation. I think it’s too simple to say they’re just being girls as though they’re innocently ignorant of their dark side.”

    Lol.

    Joe, you killing me man.

  56. @ theasdgamer

    New Years we spend with EE husband and wife, kids. He’s thoroughly BP, she’s running the show and restarting her career in quality control equipment design. He fantasizes about Mr. Mom life. Last rites.

    Her conversations, engineering unrelated (politics, culture) were all feelings, well stated, opinionated but feelings. If asked to move beyond feelings she’d say “It’s too complicated.” “You just wouldn’t understand.” She was confident that she knew and everyone should defer. I left to smoke.

    Do you find this true too, in some extent, with women engineers? Will their hindbrain routinely trump their preternatural logic? I’d say it’s so with women M.D.’s. You have both.

  57. @Eh

    Do you find this true too, in some extent, with women engineers? Will their hindbrain routinely trump their preternatural logic? I’d say it’s so with women M.D.’s.

    I’ve known women engineers. If you want a woman’s opinion based on her logic, you must reset her CPU. Get her out of feelings mode and into rational mode. They will resist this if they can. You have to use language like a man would use to get the mode change.

  58. @ASD Gamer: “Tell that voice to STFU.”

    It can be difficult for the blue rinsed mind to understand that it really isn’t any of her business.

  59. @kfg

    It can be difficult for the blue rinsed mind to understand that it really isn’t any of her business.

    Opportunity for growth. Don’t give a BP mind any out…you may have to explain WHY it’s none of her business…Platinum Rule stuff

  60. BLUE PILL LIVES MATTER!

    Off topic but saw this in a comment thread on another site today and it made me chuckle so I thought I’d share.

  61. I don’t begrudge Blue Pillers, I know many, many of them – men and women – who are very happy. If they are happy all is well. If you think it IS steak, well it gives you steak pleasure anyway…

    Now if they are complaining… that is another story.

  62. @Rand Hooks

    There’s a subtle error to your mindset that only experience can really dispel.

    You are doing what most men do when they start to learn game; you’re learning it as a system of things to do to accomplish a goal with women. It’s another form of negotiating for desire, in the form of the didactic male logic ‘I want sex —> find out what women want in exchange for sex —-> get sex.’

    It’s just now you’ve replaced ‘write them poems’ and so on with what you think is better intel – you’re negotiating with redpill tech like ‘establish boundaries’ and ‘be aloof.’

    Doesn’t work unless you actually have boundaries and are aloof. I mean, it technically can work if you execute perfectly but if these things aren’t internalized you’re going to make a smattering of errors almost always, and this fact is evident in your comments.

    Likely you’re doing 3 things wrong for every 1 thing right, and you don’t even have the awareness to recognize what those 3 things are to tell us about them.

    Until you ‘get it,’ the sorts of ways you actually need to act can seem unnatural and non-intuitive. For example, Rollo in this post lays out how communicating in a masculine, overt fashion is actually attractive to women. So the logical thing that follows is that you should convey your desires with a girl in an overt fashion. But then kfg tells you you should communicate non-exclusivity in a covert fashion, by letting her discover evidence.

    It all seems terribly confusing, until you apprehend the totality of the dynamic. The thing you must understand – and which Rollo doesn’t specifically address in this post – is that even when you use masculine, context-lite styles of communication with a women they will still interpret that communication in a feminine fashion – that is, in a fashion full of context based primarily upon emotional states.

    So the full lesson isn’t ‘communicate in a masculine fashion with her,’ It’s ‘communicate the way a masculine person would communicate if he knew what he was saying would be interpreted by a female brain.

    You have to, for example, avoid what PUA’s call ASD – the instinctive mechanisms women use to avoid sex. You cannot make it seem either inevitable or planned. You cannot seem to need it overmuch.

    The process must be other than an overt ‘let’s bang.’ It must operate (with like 90% of women) like this:

    -you turn her on enough that she begins to feel curiosity about you, but no so much that she is aware that she is turned on. Girls actually, in a stark difference from men, feel subjectively turned off when arousal starts. This prompts them to shit-test and emotionally engage, getting the measure of the man, while their thoughts are something like ‘this guy is a dick! I have to show him.’
    -you isolate to a place where she is (to her perception) free from social judgement. You do this in a fashion that does not overtly state that you are doing so that she can let things flow, or not, naturally.
    -Then you turn her on enough that she suddenly becomes aware of it. Then escalate. Done.

    This is just one example of the sorts of distinctions you need to keep in mind. The knowledge can help you notice the patterns and therefore develop the skillset faster, but you can’t learn it on your couch.

  63. @Forge

    Finally, after all this, you get to the place where she is DTF (Down To Fuck) and…PRESTO!…logistics don’t work out, lol. This happens a lot when you’re not planning to fuck and one drops in your lap, so to speak.

  64. Re: logistics.

    Haven’t thought about this in a while.

    How crucial is it to have your own place to bang? How willing is a woman to use her own place? Yeah, it depends on how much she’s into you and all…but how important is it to have your own usable room nearby? If she’s high-buying-temp DTF, she’d do it almost anywhere I’d imagine and experienced.

  65. @ Forge

    Cut-and-paste-and-send to my boy. Thank you. There’s everything there for his success. Cool.

  66. @EhIntellect

    It ranges from ‘nice to have’ to ‘vital.’

    Basically, a girl won’t bang you if she fears social consequences for doing so. So it becomes an equation of how much fear she’s feeling.

    Increases fear:
    – Friends around
    – Place she knows (might be familiar people about)
    – Friends are judgmental about casual sex
    – Daytime
    – Bang area more visible
    – etc.

    Decreases fear:
    – Unfamilar place
    – Elevated mood (paaartaaaay!!!)
    – Arousal
    – Concealed location
    – Alcohol
    – etc.

    Regardless, you need to pull something off to bang w/o your own place. If you want regular plates you’ll likely need a good place even if it ain’t yours. Girls tend to categorize back-alley blowjobs as ‘that thing I did once at a bachelorette party’ more than ‘sure, same time next week?’

  67. an example of why it can be foolish to immediately disregard the content of what women say because of their solipsistic and tedious communication style:

    once I was talking about the Gita with the wife. naturally this led to oppenheimer and the trinity test. this led to talk of the stars.

    enter the female solipsisitc pov. and a turn in the conversation that never happened in physics class or with any of my male friends. she remembered I had once told her that as a kid, thinking of the infinite outer space made me sick to my stomach. I had only mentioned this once, casually, but she remembered (in talking about that kind of stuff with guys, I had never mentioned that particular tidbit as it was never relevant).

    then she did something that I found, of course, very irritating – she turned the conversation to herself. she said that as a kid, she looked in the mirror one time, and for reasons she could not explain, felt very very old. not old like her grandmother, but ancient. she had never told anyone this before.

    my first reaction was, “yeah, only a woman could go from oppenheimer to herself in ten seconds flat”.

    but then I really thought about what she had said and it kind of fucked me up because at age seven, she had intuited the truth of her actual atomic physical existence in a way I never had. she could not explain what she felt and she did not care to learn about star factories and heavier elements or anything else like I or most men would have. but she fucking knew something was up. she felt it.

    I never looked at her the same way after that.

  68. “she’d do it almost anywhere I’d imagine and experienced.”

    He he… there was this gold course round my first real GF’s house. We would date every summer for a few years in a row. Would be out on the slope just off the green, both of us butt nekid on a blanket in the summer breeze… And the beaches too… One night we were on the beach on a blanket and i was eating her out… the air and the water were so warm. all of a sudden I stop and the tide had come in and we were half in the water… got up and dragged the soaked blanket up a few more feet and continued… But yeah, cars… stair wells… all good spots…

    And i loved going to a chick’s place because they would get so into lighting candles and shit and putting on Sade or whatever…

    These days… hotels provide great logistics… especially from the lobby. 100 horizontal feet to naked.

  69. ” So it becomes an equation of how much fear she’s feeling.”

    Fear list can be overcome with massive attraction. when in doubt AMP attraction hard. and then ACT!

  70. Fleezer

    I had once told her that as a kid, thinking of the infinite outer space made me sick to my stomach

    Interesting. I have similar reactions… especially to patterns.

    spores on a fern make me immediately nauseous.

    what is this???

  71. @EhIntellect

    Heh, I’m a master at getting other guys laid.

    Since he’s in his teens though he has access to girls who are 1) young and reckless; and 2) horny as fuck with no experience controlling it. As such the ASD rules can be stretched slightly sometimes. Sometimes.

    At his age, I remember I’d catch girls masturbating with a pencil in Bible class. Shit’s crazy. And totally hidden to like….90% of the guys.

  72. @Sentient

    Trypophobia.

    I’d advise you not google it as you’ll be beset by images specifically designed to set it off.

    It’s a revulsion reaction to things that look like skin diseases or parasites to your lizard-brain.

  73. @Forge the Sky

    Great perspective on Rand Hooks.

    @Rand Hooks

    Is English a second language for you?

    This stage of Mastery you are in (unconscious incompetence) needs to be taken into account in you learning Game. There was a wise guy that used to comment in the manosphere and took the perspective that it is more about getting you better rather than railing about the idiosyncrasies that women exhibit.

    That guy was a guy named Pook and was a commenter on SoSuave forums. He was somewhat MGTOW aligned but had good abstract ideas about making oneself better.

    His collected comments were aggregated into The Book of Pook.

    https://bookofpook.neocities.org/#ch-1

    In his introduction to that collection he wrote what is an important thing to understand about some commenters here (including myself). Some of us use posts to clarify our own thoughts and advance our own power and objectives in game. That does not implicate ourselves in not caring about you advancing your own purpose and game.

    When I do a post, I basically talk to myself.The post is something I’ve found that helps me, that is why it appears in the ‘tips’ section. If I wanted to discuss it, it would go in the discussion section. (Many people do not understand this distinction and start ranting on my threads and don’t understand why I don’t respond. There’s no need to discuss anything. The posts end up becoming so long because I already put in the questions within the post.)

    There is a trend lately where people do not see the posts, they just see ‘Pook’. So when a Pook post appears, they go ‘pook baiting’ (term coined by Ice-pick). A good example of this is the ‘Habit is All’ thread. A very simple message (that provided clarity in my life) but obsfuscated by nonsensical replies.

    My mission is to try to correct the Pook. I actually don’t care about anything else. Things that help me I put out on the table, since maybe some of you guys have the same problems I did. If the post sounds like Latin to you, then don’t consider it. We’re all here to fix ourselves. Because the focus is on ourselves.

    I think that was when my Big Change came was when I realized that I was the problem, not the women. That’s why I rage against the ‘focus on women/controlling women/tactics’ posts (or rather, when they rage at me). The solution to your problems is not in the woman but in yourself, but it does take a type of humility to realize that YOU are the problem (consider the Nice Guy: HE is right and the WORLD/WOMEN are wrong. He is backwards. He is wrong and the WOMEN are right).

    The purpose of some of these comments is not to win little battles, but to get other guys to get their own personal agency and get more mastery with their own personal real power in game. (While, in parallel, also clarifying our own issues, most of which have been clarified by manosphere egagement a while ago.)

  74. “Fear list can be overcome with massive attraction. when in doubt AMP attraction hard. and then ACT!”

    Sliding scale, each one. She’s still not gonna do it in front of her grandma (overwhelming social pressure). And in the absence of massive attraction, massive amounts of alcohol will dissolve that fear very efficiently (though not very ethically) as well.

    But yes, if you crank the attraction and ACT you can do things you never imagined possible.

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s