Awareness and Intent

coma

 

My good friend DJ Damage had an interesting question regarding last week’s post and the time-tested classic LJBF rejection:

Hey Rollo would you say that women consciously know what they are doing to their male friends?! I mean lets take the AFC out of the equation for a moment and focus on the women. When a woman lays the LJBF’s line on her “male friend” doesn’t she realises that this AFC who is standing before her wanted to fuck her for the longest time?! Doesn’t she see anything wrong with the fact that in her eyes its not ok for a man to reject the LJBF’s line yet its ok to string a man along, pepper him with false hopes and some physical contact and then be surprised (or act surprised) he may want more??!!

Or is it just to accept the fact that women are women and you shouldn’t worry about their predictable behaviour but rather accept it and follow the rules of engagement.

I think it kind of depends on the individual, but to varying degrees I’d think no. As I stated in Playing Friends, the LJBF rejection has been so provably time-tested that it’s entered into a standardized feminine consciousness. In other words, it doesn’t need a formal teaching to understand how it’s useful. It’s simply demonstrated in so many different ways (media, personal interactions, etc.) that it becomes subconsciously learned. 12 y.o. girls don’t sit around at slumber parties discussing the best way to deliver a LJBF rejection to boys that like them. They learn the convention from TV, their big sisters, their mothers, etc. examples.

This is what makes it all the more jarring for a woman to have what’s always been a useful social tool explained to them. And of course the fail-safe for it is the risk of social ostracization on the guy’s part for outright rejecting her LJBF, making it far less likely an occurrence.

Now, that said, you’re really asking two questions. The second is, does the LJBF girl know the “friend” wants to bang her? I’d say most definitely. Not that any woman would admit it, because in doing so it puts the burden of her being straightforward with him on her. It’s plausible deniability. It’s far easier to deny, what by early adolescence girls know (boys want to fuck them) than to accept responsibility for leading him on. Bear in mind, attention is the coin of the realm in girl-world, but the guy also bears a good amount of responsibility for his own illusions.

When you think about it, it’s really a self-perpetuating cycle. Guy wants to qualify for girl’s intimacy, girl knows this, but isn’t attracted to the guy for the exact reason he is qualifying himself. Girl should be forthright with the “non-interest” guy, but still enjoys the attention and the affirmation that comes with it. Girl plays ‘friend’ and only becomes flirtatious when the attention flow breaks to reestablish it. Guy gets to make-or-break point, initiates intimacy and girl falls back on LJBF. Guy believes he still needs to qualify more and the cycle repeats.

Now, is any of that a conscious process? If a girl says ‘yes’, she’s a self-serving, grand manipulator, and this causes a cognitive self-image conflict. Due to a  fear of ostracization from attention she can’t exactly cop to a foreknowledge of the process. But that’s OK because there are many other feminine social conventions she can fall back on to avoid this. The feminine prerogative (she can change her mind) being the most useful, or The Feminine Mystique (women are unknowable) being a close second .

If the answer is no, and she’s not aware of the process, our social sense of personal responsibility takes over; she’s naive or at least immature. However, even in this event she’s also excused from culpability.

Regardless of whether a woman is aware of her own motives, it’s up to men to see her behavior as the only reliable indicator for them. As I’ve said before, there are no mixed messages, women will tell you exactly what their intent is. You just need the ability to read the behavior. As I’ve said before, the medium IS the message. The LJBF IS the message. Women with a high interest level don’t get to this point with a guy they want to fuck.

Awareness

I sometimes get critics telling me that what I reveal at Rational Male is very negative or disproportionately biased against women. I understand that perception, but it’s not my intent to do so. I’ve stated on several occasion that all I do is hold up a mirror, you’ve got to want look – and the main trouble with women (and men in some instances) is that after having been immersed for a lifetime in a fem-centric , feminine primary reality they don’t really like what’s being reflected back at them. It’s a very foreign experience for most women to see the root motivators of their own behavior, so the natural reflexive response is to demonize the one illustrating them, or really even making an attempt to understand and educate others about them. When the feminine Matrix is your most favorable and comfortable environment, it follows that attempts to unplug someone from it are met with considerable resistance.

From Moral to the Manosphere:

“,..when I wrote War Brides, it was in response to men’s common complaint of how deftly and relatively unemotionally women could transition into a new relationship after they’d been dumped by a GF or wife. I wanted to explore the reasons how and why this functioned, but from a moralistic perspective it is pretty fucked up that, due to hypergamy, women have an innate capacity to feel little compunction about divesting themselves emotionally from one man and move on to another much more fluidly than men. If I approach the topic in a fashion that starts with, “isn’t it very unjust and / or fucked up that women can move on more easily than men?” not only is my premise biased, but I’d be analyzing the moral implications of the dynamic and not the dynamic itself.”

When I explore the War Brides dynamic, the amoral aspects of Hypergamy or any of the more moralistically uncomfortable dimensions of Game, people want to apply their own perceptions of justice or moral sensitivity to what are sometimes very inhumane conditions. I realize that’s going to happen, in fact, in the interests of inter-gender civility it should happen – but what gets (sometimes intentionally) confused in coming to those conclusions is the demonizing of the revelations behind what motivates those dehumanizing realities. We want to hold people responsible for the motivators who have no idea what they are in the first place.

Hypergamy has served an evolutionary purpose for the human species; it doesn’t mean we have to like it, but it doesn’t mean we can ignore its influence, nor does it mean the person revealing it or attempting to better understand it is inherently an asshole for doing so. It also doesn’t excuse us from the consequences of being unaware of it.

As DJDamage asked in the beginning of this post, women for the greater part are unaware or casually oblivious to the motivators of their own behavior. Recently some notable ‘red pill women’ have been making what I believe are sincere effort to better understand those motivators as well as the feminine primary social environment that favors and reinforces them. While I’m not sure that they’ll want to throw their lot in with the manosphere wholesale, it’s at least a small step in the direction of better understanding.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Athol Kay
Guest

I think if you’re a guy you have to see LJBF as her issuing a relationship ultimatum. Either (1) you become my Beta Orbiter forever and stop creeping me out by having an erection in my presence, or (2) get lost creep.

Neither is fun to think about if you’re the guy, but (2) is the only choice that isn’t a timesink.

Erudite Knight
Guest

“Guy wants to qualify for girl’s intimacy, girl knows this, but isn’t attracted to the guy for the exact reason he is qualifying himself. Girl should be forthright with the “non-interest” guy, but still enjoys the attention and the affirmation that comes with it. Girl plays ‘friend’ and only becomes flirtatious when the attention flow breaks to reestablish it” Basically girls mentality in a nutshell. The last part though is an area a LOT of guys flounder. They finally PULL AWAY from the girl, and lo and behold a week or month later they get ‘hey miss you~’ and suddenly… Read more »

Dr. Illusion
Guest

It’s nearly impossible to get a female to admit that all her male friends want to fuck her. How dumb can you be? You think any straight male just enjoys listening to your inane chatter and drama? Hardly.

M3
Guest

Reblogged this on M3 and commented:
I began my own blog mere hours after destroying an on again off again 17 year orbit around my own emotional vampire during summer earlier this year. Rollo brings excellent insight into why women do the LJBF routine, and what you as a man must recognize in order to break the cycle.

Myxomatosis
Guest
Myxomatosis

Great article as always…I’d like to add another wrinkle to this dilemma, so hopefully you guys can offer some clarity. A few months ago, after getting to know this particular girl, I asked out a hb 9. This was late August. She asked if I could take a rain check because her fiancé just died about a month prior (multiple people confirmed she was telling the truth). Lately, now, I see her at the health food store we both frequent on Saturdays. Sometimes we eat lunch together, etc…it’s pleasant. I make sure I play it cool. Now I ask: at… Read more »

Gustavo
Guest
Gustavo

Women dont have to be aware of their motivators because the system has been tailored to work in their favor. They merely have to exist to reep the benefits. If an AFC gets mad about it he’s “creepy”. I’ve seen it happen countless times.

3rd Millenium Men
Guest

The videos at point 4 in the post below demonstrate that girls live in their wilful, blissful ignorance of beta orbiters while the guys eagerly, pathetically hanging around them all know they want to be more than just friends:

3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/manosphere-nice-guys/

Martel
Guest

Even before my red-pill-swallow I recognized the female need for the alpha and the beta. The beta builds her confidence so that she feels more able to work the alpha. One actually semi-aware artistic interpretation of this was actually in Twilight (yes, I read them, but I was in Afghanistan and ran out of other stuff to read). Bella knew she was treating Jacob like crap and using him to maintain her own sense of feminine self-worth. She felt bad, but stil did it. Another great line on it was from the female in the movie “In the Company of… Read more »

Martel
Guest

myxo: you never know until you find out

3rd Millenium Men
Guest

“When you think about it, it’s really a self-perpetuating cycle. Guy wants to qualify for girl’s intimacy, girl knows this, but isn’t attracted to the guy for the exact reason he is qualifying himself. Girl should be forthright with the “non-interest” guy, but still enjoys the attention and the affirmation that comes with it. ”

damn Rollo your writing is just getting better and better. This whole post is superb. Lots to digest and definitely Best of the Manosphere worthy.

Spoos in August
Guest

There’s also the fallback of “women have been socialized not to say ‘no.'” Avoiding judgement (and subsequent social ostracization) is a big part of the feminine imperative, and much of women’s behavior can be viewed in terms of social defensibility.

Jonathon Factory
Guest
Jonathon Factory

myxo: If you get a chance read a couple of the articles linked in this post, particularly the first three. While she may have recently lost a fiance’, War Brides addresses that issue. A friend’s husband passed away last year. They had two children and she was left in very good financial standing so she wasn’t in need of someone to pick up the tab. She was remarried within 6 months. Not dating. Not engaged. Married. Many women move on from that stuff in a hurry. I was dumbfounded. Having lunches? It’s pleasant? It reads very friend-like. One of the… Read more »

Martel
Guest

It cracks me up how the hamster works with “I didn’t want to tell you I wasn’t interested because I feel bad.” Telling the guy as soon as she knows he wants her would mean there’s a hell of a lot less reason to feel bad because he wouldn’t feel let on. At the same time, it’s perfectly okay to cause a guy pain as long as the fact that she’s causing pain isn’t directly in front of her nose. Causing a guy immense anguish with plausible deniability isn’t nearly as disquieting as causing a little tinge of discomfort that… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

While she may have recently lost a fiance’, War Brides addresses that issue.

Yes, to a certain extent. However, if she was engaged to an alpha, or a man higher on the ladder than Myxo, then it’s not that simple. If her fiance was alpha, she will pine for him for the rest of her life, especially if they were to be married. She got commitment from him. This is huge.

Kate
Guest
Kate

“Recently some notable ‘red pill women’ have been making what I believe are sincere effort to better understand those motivators as well as the feminine primary social environment that favors and reinforces them. While I’m not sure that they’ll want to throw their lot in with the manosphere wholesale, it’s at least a small step in the direction of better understanding.” There has recently been a HUGE influx of women, many with their own blogs. Its nice to see you giving them credit. I certainly have learned much from what you’ve written. I don’t know if my roundabout thank you… Read more »

Martel
Guest

Somewhat off topic, but I find it funny how this ostensibly traditionalist article simply oozes the feminine imperative:

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/lets-give-chivalry-another-chance/266085/

Myxomatosis
Guest
Myxomatosis

Jonathan factory… Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. Let me clarify something, though. When I say pleasant, I mean there is laughter, kino, innuendo, etc…sometimes she’ll seek me out purposely, but I make sure her ex is never brought up, and she never speaks of him. I also know she’s spending the holidays alone, since this is the first holiday season with out him, which is why I thought it best to wait until the new year to pick it up again. And, believe me, I’m gaming other girls and hooking up while this takes place. It’s simply a unique… Read more »

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

“It’s nearly impossible to get a female to admit that all her male friends want to fuck her. How dumb can you be? You think any straight male just enjoys listening to your inane chatter and drama? Hardly.”

You’re talking about a woman’s mind here. She has no idea what it’s like to keep the tiger in the cage almost much every second of every day.

taterearl
Guest
taterearl

“Regardless of whether a woman is aware of her own motives, it’s up to men to see her behavior as the only reliable indicator for them.”

Yup rather than waste time thinking about her rationale from a logical perspective…just take the message and move on.

There are worse things than hearing LBJF from a woman you dig. “I want a divorce” is one.

Martel
Guest

Hamster alert!

Key quote: “Much of the back-and-forth centered around the fact that I didn’t realize that penetration had actually occurred until days later. I had had a few beers, it was dark, I was a virgin and generally sexually inexperienced, and I had told him explicitly that I did not want to have sex yet, all of which added up to me not realizing what had happened until he told me.”

http://www.thefrisky.com/2012-12-10/the-soapbox-on-nice-guys-as-rapists/

Case
Guest
Case

First, Rollo, thanks for the article, as always. Second, one critical disconnect on the whole LJBF thing that we lose sight of because we’ve accepted its frame is that LJBF only happens because mysterious betafriendly courtship rituals have been normalized. Guys think they are supposed to befriend her, then shoot some date requests across the bow and see what fires back. I.e.: Him: “Hey, I’m liking you, are you comfortable?” Her: “yeah I’m comfortable silly (acting oblivious), what’s up?” Him: “ok let’s got out” Her: “oh, whoa, sorry LJBF” Him: “what? I thought you said you’re comfortable. Oh well” he… Read more »

itsme
Guest
itsme

There are worse things than hearing LBJF from a woman you dig.

yeah, like ‘that was my ex texting me….we’re just friends’.

Flatnose
Guest
Flatnose

“He was funny and smart and liked animals….” !!!!

Flatnose
Guest
Flatnose

“Guy wants to qualify for girl’s intimacy, girl knows this, but isn’t attracted to the guy for the exact reason he is qualifying himself. Girl should be forthright with the “non-interest” guy, but still enjoys the attention and the affirmation that comes with it. Girl plays ‘friend’ and only becomes flirtatious when the attention flow breaks to reestablish it”

Love it… The truth truly sets you free!

Jimmy
Guest
Jimmy

Doesn’t she see anything wrong with the fact that in her eyes its not ok for a man to reject the LJBF’s line yet its ok to string a man along, pepper him with false hopes and some physical contact and then be surprised (or act surprised) he may want more??!!…. One would have to assume or think that this would be a lower percentage case in reference to the – string a man along bit (I don’t have any experience in the matter and could be wide of the mark). Or in his delusional mind small instances may be… Read more »

Stingray
Guest

Case,

In short, he made them uncomfortable.

Lamont Cranston
Guest
Lamont Cranston

I spent an evening at a camp at a medieval reenactment last summer getting IOI’s form a woman in camp. We hung out, chatted, listened to music, and I shared some of my single malt scotch. At the end of the evening, I tried to escalate, and she acted surprised, and I got LJBF. She actually hit me with “I cherish your friendship.” How the fuck can she cherish my friendship? At the beginning of the evening she barely knew my name. Ok – so I don’t kick tingles for every woman I talk to. I get that: I’m not… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

@Stingray … right! when I got started writing that I’d meant to make ref to Rollo’s piece on that, but that’s right. I think that matters to understanding it, and understanding how we are so wrong on a societal level. but…if I was just encouraging a fellow blok like they guy upstairs having lunch w/the girl w/the deceased fiance…I would urge them not to question it. Just do it. Do it tonight. Touch her on the forearm and see what she does. Take it a step further when you’re (happily) surprised that she kind of welcomes it. once you start… Read more »

Red Pill
Guest
Red Pill

Tom Leykis put a stop to LJBF shit 10 years ago with 2 key Leykis 101 rules.

– No female friends.
– 3 date rule.

If guys stuck to those two rules LJBF would be a non-issue. All this manoshere analysis of it is fine but all you really need to do is keep it simple and just say “no” to the bullshit. I don’t know why a guy would want a woman as a “friend” anyway; it makes no sense.

The key as always is to have plates spinning…

Case
Guest
Case

@Lamont,
the real IOI invites further touch.
IOI that shuts down touch is just asking you to join the choir of betaorbiters. She has no problem with that.

Martel
Guest
Martel

I could be wrong here, but I think some of this problem stems from our recent past when women actually considered provider traits as somewhat positive. A century ago, if a girl gave in to a player, she could be utterly ruined if people found out or she got pregnant. Therefore, it was in a guy’s interest to show her that he was different, that if he knocked her up, he would be there for her. Even among old-time players, this seems to have been a prominent strategy. Valmont in Dangerous Liaisons often emphasized how the woman he was trying… Read more »

Wilf
Guest
Wilf

You rock Lamont, Your Red Pill approach is the stuff I wished I knew about years ago when I was dating, rather than get all butt hurt and depressed over chicks friending me in favor of assholes. Keep up the good Red Pill work for all of us bros on the sidelines.

Rollo your articles are very well written, but this one has set a new standard of excfellence. Bravo.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

There has recently been a HUGE influx of women, many with their own blogs. Its nice to see you giving them credit. I certainly have learned much from what you’ve written. I don’t know if my roundabout thank you from a month or so ago ever reached you, so I’ll take the opportunity to say thanks now. I’m glad you benefit from what I write, but lets just say the jury is still out. I still have my reservations about ‘red pill’ women and a want to sanitize Game to fit the feminine imperative, but I will say this, at… Read more »

Jeff Thomas (@hey_wilber)
Guest

Thanks Rollo for the insightful and hard-core facts of life…you’ve saved mine. I was married for 25 years – I was a young Alpha when married, but was unwittingly transformed into Beta (no clue) and then to AFC (even worse) after divorce. Many of my post-divorce relationships have failed miserably and I had no earthly clue as to why…until now. Thank you, I am killing that Beta. One particular relationship has had me completely baffled until now. We were together 6 straight months and were having a great time. We had lots of fantastic dates and crazy sex. She flaked,… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

“I still have my reservations about ‘red pill’ women..”

I’ve gone purple pill: for those who use red pill knowledge to make their blue pill dreams reality.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

You’re just trying to Build a Better Beta, and the problem with that scenario is that the guy you fantasize about when you masturbate isn’t him.

AW
Guest
AW

^ It’s pretty simple really. Be feminine, don’t be a slut/psycho/golddigger, love sex, stay in shape, have an honest understanding and acceptance of your SMV, and respect your man.

You see, we really are quite simple in our needs. Ten thousand pages of manosphere blogs to deduce how women work and what they want, and one paragraph above to summarize what we want in a mate.

Johnycomelately
Guest
Johnycomelately

“But I think some of this problem stems from our recent past when women actually considered provider traits as somewhat positive.”

Given that AFCs cut across all stratas of society and all cultures there has to be an evo aspect to this.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“You see, we really are quite simple in our needs. Ten thousand pages of manosphere blogs to deduce how women work and what they want, and one paragraph above to summarize what we want in a mate.” HAHAHA. Post of the week. My issue with women in the sphere are the ones that are in panic marriage mode. They are post wall and now desperately want someway to get an attractive man to commit to them. You can do all those things in your sentence but the best you can probably hope for is an older greater beta if you… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

Saw this comment on that nice guy rapist link that Martel posted- “Nice” guys usually are closet-rapists. The typical “nice-guy” is just a frustrated, angry beta-male who secretly despises women for not giving him all the depraved sex he wants (which he’s too timid to admit wanting), and will take the first opportunity to get a woman in a vulnerable position so he can take what she “owes” him. The “nicest” guy I ever met told me I could move in with him (and pay half his rent) during a difficult family ordeal I was going through. Within a week… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck

Here is the rest of her comment: “Nice” is just an act men put on, and the better the act, the bigger asshole is hiding underneath. The fact that women are even still debating whether or not it’s possible for men to be “nice”, or for “nice” men to be rapists, tells me that women still really aren’t very smart. Guys are ALL “nice” until they have you in a vulnerable position. DUH! Alpha-males may be pigs, but at least they’re honest about pursuing what they want. “Nice” guys are just frustrated betas, hiding all the resentment that goes with… Read more »

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

Are actually hookers the only honest women left in the world?

Martel
Guest

Old joke:

What’s the difference between sex for money and sex for free?

Sex for money’s cheaper.

kolo
Guest
kolo

i was thinking today about the reason why women might be able to move on from a highly invested relationship with ease compared to a man, and it seems to me that the relative shortness of a women’s sexual shelf-life is a good explanation. if a girl is reeling in self pity for 6 months in their twenties, as a man may do, they have just wasted valuable prime value, whereas for a man, although it may not feel like it at the time, the time lost is not such a crushing blow, and he is likely to come back… Read more »

Ace Haley
Guest

Since this deals with a guy trying to “find love,” I figure I’d bring this up. What does anyone here think about the concept of “finding love?” What do you think about the idea that love will find you when you least expect it?

I don’t know if Rollo has written about this topic but if he has, I’d appreciate a link to the post.

xsplat
Guest

“But I think some of this problem stems from our recent past when women actually considered provider traits as somewhat positive.” Given that AFCs cut across all stratas of society and all cultures there has to be an evo aspect to this. It’s challenging to get a mental map of women’s motives without oversimplifying the characters down to Batman and the Green Goblin. Do women no longer need provider traits? Are they now only interested in other signals of fitness, such as looks, height, facial features, and social charm? There is a shift in emphasis, but the underlying program is… Read more »

Jeff Thomas (@hey_wilber)
Guest

“Recently some notable ‘red pill women’ have been making what I believe are sincere effort to better understand those motivators as well as the feminine primary social environment that favors and reinforces them.” I believe it is impossible for them to defy the genetics and social programming when it undoubtedly falls in their favor. Why should they? Its a ruse, a misdirection. There are no true ‘red pill women’. If there were, they would stop wearing makeup, high heels, or whatever means of deception they utilize on the men in their daily lives. Just words, opportunistic words. They have too… Read more »

Matthew
Guest
Matthew

Ace Haley, A woman cannot love a man the way a man wants to love a woman. What you mean by “finding love”, no man will ever achieve. If you’re anything like me or certain of my friends, the love you hope to find in a woman is the love your mother failed to provide you in your first year of life. You can’t have that now. You may be able to find a woman who can give that love to your sons. I failed to do that, and so I have two sons whose mother did not bond to… Read more »

Tim S.
Guest
Tim S.

Best blog on the planet! I’m way behind on my reading of the Rational Male. Just tons of good info … thanks Rollo.

Martel
Guest

Jeff: “Its a ruse, a misdirection. There are no true ‘red pill women’. If there were, they would stop wearing makeup, high heels, or whatever means of deception they utilize on the men in their daily lives. Just words, opportunistic words. They have too much to lose and are simply pandering for attention. How can they care or understand when they really don’t, never will, and are truly incapable of it?” First, except for those who’ve escaped, all are part of the Matrix. The “feminine imperative” destroys women, too, like all the women who hit their wall and find that… Read more »

Ace Haley
Guest

@xsplat: “Money makes women FEEL love.” I hope you’re not saying women feel love for the man that they leech child support and alimony money off of. And even if you aren’t, your premise makes it sound like a woman would never leave a man who’s set already even though this isn’t the case. The assurance that money is gonna be there at a whim supposedly should keep these women in love but this isn’t what I see. If money makes women feel love, why did Elin Nordegren leave Tiger Woods? Few men in the world make more money than… Read more »

Mark Minter
Guest

I reread The Pet today. http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/the-pet/ I paraphrase liberally what is says. Women are women. Better you know. Now you know. Protect yourself at all times in the ring. Never assume that your connection with a women transcends her hypergamy. She is like the big cat that will go feral and eat you when you drop your guard because you think of it as your pet. Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better. And my addition, If the rest of the world doesn’t want to listen or learn, fuck them. But you know. I can much promise you… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

@Good Luck Jessica Lehman is projecting. Whenever women fire off into fantastic fantasies of “all men ” … it’s basically broadcasting a disconnect from reality right out of the gate. She’s doing everyone a huge favor in a way. When women do this they are giving you a periscope into the darkest parts of their own souls. Run like hell. I didn’t understand projection, let alone believe in it, until my ex. Now I know. Run like hell. @Ace Don’t know where you are at man. Personally I’d say it is pretty clear that there is no such thing as… Read more »

Case
Guest
Case

the last post the hypertext killed off part of my sentence… first part should be …

“@Good Luck
Jessica Lehman is projecting. Whenever women fire off into fantastic fantasies of “all men …(fill in here with imagined heinous crime)” … it’s basically broadcasting a disconnect from reality right out of the gate.”

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

‘My ass won’t be LBJF’d ever again. And I am sure most readers of this can say the same thing. ‘

Do they still try LBJF to 55 year olds? Damn.

Martel
Guest

I correct a small part of what I said in the last post.

A woman looking good is not necessarily a blue pill activity, but it can be. Rollo made the fantastically insightful point in a post that girls don’t dress like sluts because of societal pressure, they dress like sluts because of a lack of societal pressure.

Dressing like a slut is often an attempt to be a slut, which is blue pill. Wanting to look good, simply to attract interest, is not.

The woman who can look sexy but not slutty is far too rare.

realitydoug
Guest

Perfect succinct explanation of nice guy failure: the LJBF cycle. If I would have only read this over 20 years ago, I would have figured the lying, manipulative sociality at work. Instead, I coldly analyzed what worked to make the greatest civilization in history as if that were not old news. Fuck. It’s so damn simple.

Ace Haley
Guest

@Case: I’m not in that frame of mind of “finding love.” I personally think the idea is rubbish as well as the idea that it will find you (as a man) if you stop looking. That concept only works for women but we already know that almost everything in society is set up to work for women.

The reason I brought it up is simply because I’ve heard it before. I always had a feeling that it wasn’t true even when I first heard it.

Ulf Elfvin
Guest
Ulf Elfvin

@ Martel

“Twilight (yes, I read them, but I was in Afghanistan and ran out of other stuff to read)”

Excuses…

“In the Company of Men” (easily one of the most amazing red pill movies ever made, but almost nobody’s seen it).”

Would you like to elaborate?

Ulf

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

Basically ‘In the Company of Men’ is a study between a classic dark triad alpha and his beta buddy. It involves a deaf woman which they both use and things get hairy.

Watch the movie, don’t want to spoil it. It does demonstrate a lot of concepts discussed here as does LeBute’s other film ‘The Shape of Things’.

Zeke
Guest
Zeke

@ FuriousFerret

“Never trust anything that can bleed for a week and not die.”

Martel
Guest

Thanks, Ferret! I’m not the only person who’s seen it then. “In the Company of Men” portrays and starkly contrasts alpha and beta behavior exceptionally well. We see alpha on a date, then beta on a date, alpha making the phone call, beta making the phone call, etc. Christine, the woman they’re both dating (it’s part of a plot), is hypergamy personified. What makes it even more profound is that she’s ostensibly a “good” and incredibly vulnerable girl (being deaf and all). The writing is absolutely superb with tons of layers of meaning and nuance. It’s Aaron Echhart’s breakout role,… Read more »

Jeremiah
Guest
Jeremiah

My sister has a bunch of beta orbiters and she knows exactly what she’s doing. These dudes drive her around and help her move her stuff back and forth from college. All the while she’s laughing behind thier backs to her friends, calling them pussies.

Tzeentch99
Guest
Tzeentch99

Just found your site Rollo and really enjoying it. I was wondering what are the 3 biggest things a man can do to be successful with women? Do you have a post or two on it you can link me?

[Start here, o changer of ways.]

Ulf Elfvin
Guest
Ulf Elfvin

@ red pill

” I don’t know why a guy would want a woman as a “friend” anyway; it makes no sense.”

Au contraire, mon ami mentalment défié, women don’t have only male friends, they also have female friends…

As simple as that.

Ulf

brother
Guest
brother

@Tzeentch99
you will fail if you take this attitude you need to become fully integrated a paradigm shift if you will, a complete change in your inculcated mental schema and mind maps, your essentially removing years of indoctrination it aint easy. Hit the weights, eat healthy, get your career in order or start your own business what ever it is.

or

play the guitar, get some ink done take some test injectons, not likely to lead to long term satisfaction

oh and one final one find and focus on your mission

peace out

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

RE: Red Pill Women.

As I’ve stated many times before, all women are red pill women, it’s getting them to admit it that’s the trick.

Assassin874
Guest
Assassin874

Here’s a better question: Does it matter if she knows?

She’s indirectly telling you she’s never going to fuck you, whether she wants to keep extracting resources out of you as a beta orbiter or she just wants to lay her position about you is irrelevant because the final result is the same, you getting out of that relationship and never looking back.

Team-Red
Guest
Team-Red

I have female friends. They are the ones I don’t want to have sex with. Once in a blue moon i’ll get drunk enough and do them a favor, but they know the deal.

Phinn
Guest
Phinn

Ever since I took the Red Pill, I wonder how I ever could have thought that it’s possible to be friends with a woman. It isn’t. Men should be friends with men. The kind of man who falls into the role of Beta Orbiter also typically has trouble making friends with other men, or will avoid doing masculine activities. This type of man will often reject the entire slate of typical male traits, and pride themselves on being unlike most men. These are not only major red flags, but they actively contribute to a man’s frustration and failure with women… Read more »

xsplat
Guest

Ace, perhaps instead of saying that money makes women feel love, I should have phrased it as “money contributes to women valuing the man as worthy of love”

Have you ever had greater feelings for a girl because of her fantastic tits? Same thing.

sunshinemary
Guest

RT wrote:

As I’ve stated many times before, all women are red pill women, it’s getting them to admit it that’s the trick.

Have you explained this before? If so, I would like to read what you have written on this topic.

[http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/women-studies/]

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[…] read a great post yesterday at Rational Male, “Awareness and Intent” dated 11 December 2012 and of course by Rollo Tomassi. It is a perfect description of what goes […]

Mr. Roach
Guest

If women are hypergamous, how would you describe male reproductive strategies. Divided alpha (promiscuous, low commitment) and beta (monogamous, high commitment) or what? Historically it was said men are promiscuous and women mongamous and that men were more willing to have lower commitment relationships and seek variety and numbers. The hypergamy hypothesis blows this out of water, as do recent events. And I suppose all human behavior everywher is also shaped by the local and contemporary culture. The raw human is always cultural, never in a vacuum. That said, what do you say the male biological imperative is? Loading...

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

I actually have an upcoming post about the biological imperative of men, but for the moment let me just distill it to this: unlimited access to unlimited sexuality.

That’s the imperative, not the methodology. How men go about achieving that, how long they can suppress it, control it or to what degree they can compromise it to fit with women’s sexual imperative (hypergamy) is what I’ll delve into.

FuriousFerret
Guest
FuriousFerret

“unlimited access to unlimited sexuality”

So ‘Bang Bros’ in real life.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

There is a biological and neurological component to why porn can be debilitating for men.

Mr. Roach
Guest

Why then do so many men seem more broken up by divorce, more prone to oneitis, more motivated by higher concerns like honor, truthfulness, fidelity, etc. I hope these concerns make the cut, as it seems it is men, in spite of our undeniable horniness, who also eventually decide other things are important, like civilization.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

Civilization is actually a byproduct of that undeniable horniness. Nothing motivates men more effectively than the potential for sex.

You might read this in the meantime:
https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/18/the-honor-system/

Martel
Guest

This quote from Kipling’s “The Female of the Species” seems appropriate.

“So it cames that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer / With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her / Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands / To some God of Abstract Justice — which no woman understands.”

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/courses/hum100/female.html

Zeke
Guest
Zeke

@ Mr Roach: “Why then do so many men seem more broken up by divorce, more prone to oneitis, more motivated by higher concerns like honor, truthfulness, fidelity, etc.” Men innately crave sexual variety, but most guys do not have the requisite game, social status, wealth, etc to pull a wide variety of high-quality trim on a consistent basis. Like Chris Rock said, most men are only as faithful as their options. So in order to get regular access to sex, throughout time men have been willing to enter into monogamous long-term commitments in order to (theoretically) secure it. Because… Read more »

Bully
Guest
Bully

@Zeke That is true, which means that lots of eligible men that would have sought out relationships have decided that the juice, so to speak, is not worth the squeeze. Given what this country has done to disenfranchise beta men – the building block of civilization – I foresee one of two things happening in the next two years: Either the decline of men in tertiary school and well paying jobs means women have to confront their hypergamy and come to grips with their biological urges in regards to society like men have had to do for thousands of years… Read more »

T.Jr
Guest
T.Jr

another thing worth noting, is that with the social convention of demonizing pre-selected males (“players”) it is harder for men to realize that there are no moral ramifications for women to acquire male orbiters as needed because of the plausible deniability (just fraaaaandssss) and the lack of intimacy to these men. thus, women can indulge in this behavior of leading guys on that they have absolutely no intention of spreading their legs for indefinitely.

DJDamage
Guest
DJDamage

Thanks for answering my question(s) brother Rollo.

Keep up the good work!

xsplat
Guest

Historically it was said men are promiscuous and women mongamous and that men were more willing to have lower commitment relationships and seek variety and numbers. The willingness to have sex outside of commitment is termed a persons socio-sexual score, or strategy, or something. Socio-sexual something. There is an informative wikipedia entry on it that informs us that some men have a lower socio-sexual score than does the average woman. So some family oriented men prefer lifetime monogamy more so even than the average woman, and want commitment more. So it’s not just that women have a dual sexual strategy,… Read more »

Mr. Roach
Guest

The last point seems sound to me, as does the point that some men have historically engaged in a price fixing scheme of sorts that said it’s better to restrict competition for their own good, i.e., not to be one of the 99%ers left out by polygamy. In other words, the vast majority of men benefit from the old ideal: one man, one woman, for life. It’s all broken down, but some men are railing against it out of frustration, decency and, for those with kids, a desire to maintain a good relationship with them. The latter is not an… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

I think we just live in a society that, despite all its social media, is actually very socially isolating. In the golden old days, there seemed to be more human interaction between people that allowed married men and women to spend time together with other couples at community events, etc. It gave them limited access to other people, so there was less temptation or feeling of forbidden fruit instead of people being locked up in relationships overguarded by a perhaps jealous partner. The breakdown of community is what puts too much pressure on individual people to “complete” their romantic partner… Read more »

thebloggerssoliloquy
Guest

“That’s the imperative, not the methodology. How men go about achieving that, how long they can suppress it, control it or to what degree they can compromise it to fit with women’s sexual imperative (hypergamy) is what I’ll delve into.” About time Rollo went into something that can reveal the darker side of men’s desires due to biological factors! I’m looking forward to it. By the way does anyone know 2 or 3 books that I can read that will shed light on how and why we think the way we do when it comes to the opposite sex? I’ve… Read more »

The One Reason
Guest
The One Reason

Sh1t, that video at the beginning of The Honor System (being a lazy archives reader, I guess) was like a trainwreck in the making, one knows the outcome from the outset, yet it’s fascinatingly captivating. Be very afraid. Stingray: If her fiance was alpha, she will pine for him for the rest of her life, especially if they were to be married. And even in cases of not having been actively “engaged” or intimately in touch with each other and no commitment gained for her, the lure of the alpha can extend all the way, even 20 years after his… Read more »

Kate
Guest
Kate

Yes, the same one. I retired, but I’m actually posting more on my site now. Don’t know if its anything that appeals to men (its pink:)) but hopefully a few people look at it and enjoy it. That sounds like an interesting read. Thanks for the link.

Emelie Healer
Guest

Haven’t read through all the comments but I’m SHOCKED to have a mirror held up in front of me. Deer in headlights!!!

I am completely, totally, shocked that men don’t want to be friends. TOTALLY SHOCKED because now I have to review everything I’ve ever known and it’s not so benign anymore.

WHAT THE FUCK????

Anthony
Guest
Anthony

Spoos in August says There’s also the fallback of “women have been socialized not to say ‘no.’” In my experience, LJBF happens the first time the guy actually makes a non-deniable pass at the girl. Having been there myself, and looking back, it was clear that I’d never explicitly propositioned the girl before getting to LJBF. So, aside from the fact that girls are socialized to not say “no”, there’s quite often nothing explicit to say “no” to! From the girl’s point of view, here’s this guy who’s hanging around her, they have a good time talking, and maybe being… Read more »

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

I’m a bit squeamish myself and want to be you know nice, so when the time comes, I tell my girls LJBFB.

Glengarry
Guest
Glengarry

It’s not so much being “unaware” of one’s motivations as being “uninterested” in them.

Emelie Healer
Guest

As a woman I totally agree with Anthony. “She doesn’t see all those months of hanging out as “investment” in her, or even as the guy working up the courage to make a pass at her, she sees it as something coming out of nowhere. Because if he had wanted to fuck her all along, why the hell didn’t he make that obvious going in, like any normal (alpha-ish) guy?” If you want to fuck her then decide because it takes a woman only 5-10 minutes to decide if she really wants to fuck you or not. There are several… Read more »

the audacious amateur blogger
Guest

I have been procrastinating on a post that has been in “draft” for a while now about the “evolution” of a cheater. This post kinda points similarities to the bio reasons women (and men) cheat as well as the social ones. I find it very interesting that you acknowledge the role of the Beta and Alpha in female life. Women who cheat, some, often marry the beta but during ovulation are naturally and physically sexually drawn to the Alpha, then cheat and have the Beta raise the kid unknowingly… not saying all women, but this happens. Its fucked up, but… Read more »

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[…] intent of a man, but let me state emphatically that, for the better part, I believe most women simply aren’t specifically aware of the mechanics behind this intersexual hierarchy model. Through any number of ways women are […]

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