The Reconstruction I

giphy

One of the most common misperceptions for guys coming into a Red Pill awareness experience is an expectation of being able to use that awareness and Game to reconstruct an old relationship. Most often this hope is about a guy wanting to ‘fix’ his broken relationship with a girl who dumped him. This is easily the most common reason Blue Pill guys make themselves open to what the Red Pill has to reveal to him. They are desperate, not for the intergender truths that the Red Pill presents, but rather for a solution to their hearts being crushed by a girl.

This is understandable when you consider that these men are still very steeped in Blue Pill idealism they’ve yet to unlearn (or understand why they need to unlearn it) and haven’t made the connection that their idealism is part of the reason why they likely were dumped. All they feel is a desperate longing to reconnect to a girl who was their ‘One’, and only now they are desperate enough to seek answers from the Red Pill.

It’s funny how some of the most ardent Red Pill deniers will be open to listening to its truths about men and women if it presents the possibility of them getting back with a former lover they invested themselves in. This is a good illustration of the degree of control Blue Pill idealism has over guys; that they would be open to amending their beliefs if it means reconnecting to those feelings he’s been cut away from.

Unfortunately, the Red Pill is not a salve for Blue Pill disillusionment. It’s a cure, not a bandaid. I tried to succinctly address this in the 7th Iron Rule of Tomassi:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7
It is always time and effort better spent developing new, fresh, prospective women than it will ever be in attempting to reconstruct a failed relationship. Never root through the trash once the garbage has been dragged to the curb. You get messy, your neighbors see you do it, and what you thought was worth digging for is never as valuable as you thought it was.

Another Red Pill reconstruction attempt is men who make it their goal to ‘re-seduce’ a woman they failed to effectively Game while still wrapped up in their Blue Pill mindset. The first presumption is that revenge might motivate a guy to want to pump and dump a girl who once blew him out back when he was locked into his Blue Pill mentality. Women like this idea because they think it confirms men’s egos being easily bruised, but I don’t think this is always the case.

It’s entirely possible that some past coquette has taken an organic liking to “the new him” now that his Red Pill transition and better grasp of Game has made him attractive to her. I’ve had several guys relate to me about how they have turned a former ONEitis into a plate they were spinning along with others. The experience of doing so will often solidify Red Pill/Game principles for him – the act of cycling an old ‘soul mate’ into a guy’s roster of non-exclusive lovers is a lesson in taking women of a formerly idealistic pedestal and helps humanize women for him in the process.

I should also add that there’s usually a period of time necessary to effect this. Too many men will see Red Pill awareness and just the loosest form of Game as some magic formula for pulling this off too soon. A sudden incongruent shift in his demeanor only puts her off more and leaves him discouraged.

Doing Everything Right

The third type of reconstructionist is the married man  – or the guy in a multi-year LTR – seeking to find the secret to remedy his dead bedroom. There was a time (pre-internet, pre-Red Pill) when these men were reluctant to even voice the problem they were having with their sexually indifferent wives. Generally, this was due to a couple of specific fears.

The first is that most Blue Pill men are conditioned from a very early age to always find fault in themselves before they would ever imply that it would be a woman’s. This was especially true if it was about sex. If you can’t satisfy a woman, it’s your fault. If a woman isn’t aroused or attracted by you, it’s your fault, so the presumption used to be that a man could only better himself as a means to reestablish an attraction that (presumably) he had with his wife before they were married.

Back in the day this ‘improvement’ could be defined in various old books ways. He might get a promotion at work, a shift up in status and pay. He might lose weight or find some form of competition he might possibly do well in. He might change his beliefs or accede to better identifying with his wife, or do more chores around the home, help with the kids, arrange more ‘date nights’. He might go to marriage counseling or participate in his church’s “men’s spiritual retreats” in order to show that he’s growing.

All of these ways of “rekindling the old flame” are essentially a man’s effort in acquiescing to his woman’s Frame while keeping him in a perpetual state of negotiating for her genuine desire. From a Red Pill perspective we understand this, but there was a time, not so long ago, when men’s preoccupation was all about doing everything right in order to get his wife to fuck him like she used to, or with something resembling genuine enthusiasm.

The second fear men of that time had was admitting to their inability to satisfy their wife (LTR) sexually. Again, this was all about a female-dominant Frame, and his qualifying for her pleasure, but we’re talking about a time when men’s interpretation of their own masculinity was always being questioned. It’s interesting to see how times have changed with communication technology. I can remember a time when it would’ve been taboo to be too direct about sex in church. Now it’s unavoidable and we have pastors encouraging sex quota months in order to spur the asexual wives in the congregation.

In a Blue Pill social order, men learn to always qualify for women. So the natural, male-deductive response has always been to do everything right in order to keep the sex faucet flowing. Sacrifice dreams, belay ambitions, get the right job with the right status and become a person who a woman would want to bang. These are all old book presumptions based on the Beta Female-Identifying Provider archetype, but it’s important to keep this in mind today because this same do everything right presumption still persists for men today.

The following is a post from the Married Red Pill Reddit I saved about four months ago.

Story time….

I originally posted most of this in a reply over at ASKMRP but I thought I’d share here too.

You can read my post history to get all the gory details but I moved out a few months ago in exasperation after following my MRP path to a T and seeing little to no improvement in our relationship. I’ve “fixed” myself in ways I never thought I could and moving out was me punting the final decision for a bit before I blow my beautiful children’s life to pieces.

Things are calm, peaceful, friendly and kinda fun at “home” but the sexual dynamic hasn’t changed at all despite all odds. I’ve finally reached the point that I give 0 fucks either way and every day that goes by makes me a bit more ambivalent to the whole deal.

It’s taken a long time to get here but something happened last week that opened my eyes to how shitty my life has been for a looooong time and how at this point she is the only “problem” left in my life and I can’t “fix” her.

The quick back story is that I was a fat, beta fuck for a long time and have been on this journey for about 2 years. I am fairly ripped now and have “fixed” myself to the point that I feel comfortable saying I’m a top 5-10% guy in my metro. Good looking, successful business(Doubled my sales in the last 12mos! Thanks MRP!), dress well…etc.

Last week I initiated with the wife while I was over at our house helping get the kids to bed. She shot me down like she has been for months. We still fuck here and there but the quality has been shitty for a while despite implementing as much SGM as I can.

I laughed, told her goodnight and went back to my house. I actually prefer being there now. I’ve come to love the solitude too as the loneliness and missing the kids has worn off a little.

I worked out and read for a while and got bored so I decided to download Bumble and Tinder to get a no risk gauge of where I’m at if I end up nexting her. I’ve been getting plenty of IOI’s in public but I live in a small town so pursuing them would eventually lead to big problems. I also downloaded a GPS location faker and put myself in a state far, far away to make sure I don’t get doxxed by one of her shitty, single friends…

Gentlemen…It’s been 4 days and I currently have over 60 unsolicited messages from all kinds of women. My inbox is full of unsolicited tittie and pussy shots from women waayyy hotter than my wife. I’ve got 5 women literally begging me to come fuck them and another 5 or so I’m confident I could fuck within a week if I wanted.

It’s a good thing I put myself so far away or the temptation would probably be way too much to handle. I deleted the apps this morning as I’m not ready to blow everything up yet and I want to give the marriage every last chance for my kids sake. I know myself well enough to know that once I taste some strange there will no turning back. The constant buzzing of the burner phone was also killing my productivity.

The end result is that this whole experiment has killed off any last shred of oneitis I had and opened my eyes to what my life will look like going forward if this goes the way it’s heading. My wife is a good woman and is fairly hot but it appears that she may not be able to see past all those years of beta shittiness from me and that’s ok.

I didn’t tell you my story to brag but to re-affirm that only you can change and determine the quality of your life. I can tell you that 2 years ago I was a mess trying to hang on to the shreds of my marriage while my wife was pretty much repulsed by me. My wife will or will not change into the sexy woman I want over the next few months but now I really don’t care because I have PAINFULLY built myself into a man that the world will treat very well either way.

Salvation lies within, motherfuckers! Get to work, be consistent, and reap the rewards!

Today the hope for bettering a man’s sexual prospects in marriage is found primarily in Red Pill awareness. I would daresay that the Red Pill, Game and the manosphere have done more in improving men’s sexual access in marriage than contemporary marriage counseling for about 10 years now. That’s to be lauded I think, but it also has to come with the understanding that no man’s experience, no man’s situation with his wife/woman, is ever the same, nor is it ideal.

There is a set of Red Pill men (usually married) who also attempt to do everything right – according to Red Pill awareness and applied Game – and, as per this man’s story, the situation is such that it is still ‘not enough’.

These men become Red Pill aware, they unplug, they struggle to accept it while disenfranchising themselves from their Blue Pill conditioning. They put in the time for insight and soul-searching, they deal with the uncomfortable truths of what they’ve been all their lives. They deal with the anger that inspires and they come out on the other side and begin to remake themselves. They self-improve.

Roosh recently had some Dali Lama moment about how he believes self-improvement is some Zen preset channel for men, and they ought not worry about bettering themselves. I say bullshit. Self-improvement itself is a state of being. Once a man applies himself, invests more in himself than he ever has before, changes his mind about himself, he becomes hisown mental point of origin.

These men begin to see the results of their efforts, efforts often unbeknownst to his woman. She may witness the outward changes, but only he know the experience of his inward changes. Now he’s got to deal with new experiences that were previously foreign to him in his old, Blue Pill self-identity. Some are uncomfortable and require him to use judgement he’s never had to before. Others are temptations or opportunities he’s never had access to before.

All of what’s led to this transition required a lot of personal investment on his part, and by his Red Pill awareness he’s done everything right. This transformative experience becomes a kind of Relational Equity for him; equity he believes his wife, his ex, the old high school girl who ignored him, should have some appreciation for. Just like the old books men who believed that building themselves up in their careers or getting more in touch with their feminine sides would be the key to doing everything right, the Red Pill aware guy finds that it’s not him, it’s her.

This is part one of this series.

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
kfg
Guest
kfg

A surgeon once called upon a poor cripple and kindly offered to render him any assistance in his power. The surgeon began to discourse very learnedly upon the nature and origin of disease; of the curative properties of certain medicines; of the advantages of exercise, air and light, and of the various ways in which health and strength could be restored. These remarks ware so full of good sense, and discovered so much profound thought and accurate knowledge, that the cripple, becoming thoroughly alarmed, cried out, “Do not, I pray you, take away my crutches. They are my only support,… Read more »

Dave
Guest
Dave

Absolutely love this post. I myself became red pilled “a little too late” after marriage. No matter how much I have improved objectively ( status / confidence / game technique ) at the end of the day she still sees the beta. Flipping the script in the long term may not be an attainable goal. Dread works, to some extent, to let her know not to fuck with you too much, but I feel it’s created a bit of a cognitive dissonance in her. She sees one person that doesn’t agree with her preconceived notion of you, and this messes… Read more »

peregrinejohn
Guest
peregrinejohn

wanting to ‘fix’ his broken relationship with a girl who dumped him

Or who is sexlessly married to him.

theasdgamer
Guest

I have an On Topic comment. (Mark the calendar.) I had a discussion with Mrs. Gamer last night that I would only accept sex if she wanted me and that if she didn’t that she needed to let me go…I put it that I might not be hot enough for her. Mrs. Gamer has been a lot more compliant since then. She also liked it that other women have been flirting with me and that I have not been allowing them to make physical passes at me. She was a bit lit up when we talked about it. Of course,… Read more »

trackback

[…] The Reconstruction I […]

theasdgamer
Guest

Dave, if you’re trying to reset the attraction in your wife, you will have to become a Stranger to her…that is the only way that a reset occurs…lots of Dread is required.

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

https://soundcloud.com/yeah-yeah-yeahs-official/maps-live-at-the-fillmore “These men become Red Pill aware, they unplug, they struggle to accept it while disenfranchising themselves from their Blue Pill conditioning. They put in the time for insight and soul-searching, they deal with the uncomfortable truths of what they’ve been all their lives. They deal with the anger that inspires and they come out on the other side and begin to remake themselves. They self-improve.” https://disruptingdinnerparties.com/2014/04/08/take-the-red-pill-the-truth-behind-the-biology-of-sex/ “Others are temptations or opportunities he’s never had access to before. All of what’s led to this transition required a lot of personal investment on his part, and by his Red Pill awareness… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

“I have PAINFULLY built myself into a man that the world will treat very well either way.
Salvation lies within, motherfuckers! Get to work, be consistent, and reap the rewards!”

Water Cannon Boy
Guest
Water Cannon Boy

” She sees one person that doesn’t agree with her preconceived notion of you, and this messes her up even more. @ Dave This alludes to what Rollo has said many times before about not revealing too much to women. Women love to think they have intuitively figured a guy out. They don’t want the whole story right away. So you or anybody else who’s changed or improved themselves, it is hard for her to see anything else but what you used to be. Because when she’s determined that she’s figured you out, one of the last things she wants… Read more »

cheupez
Guest

Well, well. Apparently, unplugging is a process, rather than event. The rejection speaks loudly for itself, and a man is still talking about the wife as “a good woman who is hot and cant see past the beta shittines…” That said, maybe this guy is not coming clean. Most guys in the manosphere are dox averse. I smell a rat. This guy is slaying pussy left right centre and floating a palatable cover-up story just in case. If it is true that if a woman makes you wait for sex, the sex is never that great anyway (sex not worth… Read more »

thomasso75
Guest

Solid content! Can’t wait for part 2.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

On that note I have some 400 lbs of iron waiting to test me in the gym…..
PS, this ain’t for the wife, it’s for me just wanting to be a better person. OMG, crisis of motive!!! ahhhhhhh!!!!!
Go lift mother fuckers.

Ergo Slugg
Guest
Ergo Slugg

It’s not about attraction, it’s about power. Once she’s had power over you, there a 99.9% likelihood that she’s never giving it up, regardless of your self-improvement or changed attitude. I saw it in my marriage, and the only solution was to leave her, regardless of the cost. Now I’m happier than ever before, and still kick myself for not leaving sooner.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Indeed, our Red Pill path has many trap doors built into it. I can see myself doing cartwheels over re-seducing the HB9, and how OneItis creeps in through that little mindgame. That’s okay, I can deal with it and let it go, but at some level, yes, I get how I use the Red Pill to still justify myself. It’s beyond just sexual value, it’s an existential thing with women sometimes. Just spent 3 days with the HB9 (i was doing some work for 2 of them) but it’s the first time I’ve spent that much time with a woman… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@scribblerg I have 50 years of uninterrupted social conditioning and identification with certain ideas about women and who I am. To think I can just “unplug” as though this is a movie or something is a mistake. You have to recondition your mind. This requires both learning, analysis, a synthesis of mind and POV, and then experiences to just begin this work. Meanwhile, the entire social order is still working against you. This is so true. The unplug-event ‘clicked’ for me when I discovered TRM, but the process continues. Lots of re-reading and thinking is a must for older brains… Read more »

newlyaloof
Guest

I could have written that reddit post. I thought for a long time I could save my marriage, but I’ve left that thought behind. I, too, am only staying around my house for the kid’s sake, but I have moved all my money into my own account that only I control and am looking into getting an apartment close to work. Sucks though, man! I’m the life of the party at home, so if daddy leaves, every ounce of fun will disappear from every single day of the week for my kids. But Rollo is correct. Once a wife/girlfriend sees… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Ergo – You are surely on to something wrt it being about power. One of the reasons feminism and the idea of women being oppressed is the amount of actual power women yield in the real world. They “choose” sexually (for the most part), they control 80% of household spending, and they favor each other in hiring and buying and just about everything else. In fact, one can say the modern, “strong, independent woman™” is drunk with power. To steal a line from Rollo, they are children with dynamite. Think that’s hyperbolic? Consider the nonsexual aspects. Only since women’s control… Read more »

A Wise Man
Guest

Funny you call bullshit on Roosh claiming that men do not need ‘self improvement’ because I did the same thing. I get what he’s saying to some extent, but the advice he was giving there is only for men who have already come full circle and have managed to fight through the pain and suffering that occurs when you face down all the lies and bullshit we’ve been taught from the moment we’re old enough to talk. Being at peace with life and who you are is not the same as giving up. In fact, inner peace allows a man… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@newlyaloof

I, too, am only staying around my house for the kid’s sake
That’s a calculation each man has to make. At what kid’s age range can you leave with harming their development the least? At what your own age can you leave and still have a chance of scoring young pussy?

On a related note about reconstruction, I highly suggest everyone who hasn’t read it to read the pdf “Sex God Method”
Omg, hard sex and deep eye contact. Hooks them every time

newlyaloof
Guest

@DisgruntledEarthling, I don’t think there’s any age that they won’t be fucked up a little.

bo jangles
Guest
bo jangles

Why don’t you talk about something that really matters like this election. The real red pill is realizing weve been conned about who is running the government and what devious plans they have for us. Having been in music, you should have seen some of this.

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker

I think Ergo is right as well. The issue is that once you go beta in a marriage, the woman gets the power in the marriage. She may like this, she may not like it (most of them don’t like it in the long run, even if they do in the short run), but once it happens it’s exceptionally hard to turn it back the other way. The reason isn’t that she wants the power herself (some do, but many don’t), but that she doesn’t respect you enough to cede power to you — you are too beta for her… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

scribblerg
“Meanwhile, the entire social order is still working against you. You will be a fish swimming upstream.
But in the end, the entire basis of Game is to see things strategically. To be results oriented. And once you’ve seen under the hood of the social conditioning, well, there is no going back. But going forward doesn’t seem to occur in a straight line either. This onion has a lot of layers.”

T-Prop
Guest
T-Prop

As a woman can never see outside herself (solipsism), she can never see the man as he is — only as she has come to perceive him.

A man cannot ‘fix’ her solipsism. It’s just how she is.

IAS
Guest
IAS

@Rollo: that was a good MRP post, I remember reading, and your post here is also very good. Looking forward to the rest of the series. I think I’m in one of those situations (compounded by long distance), but I still haven’t fully convinced myself I should go actively try to increase to N>1.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

‘I highly suggest everyone who hasn’t read it to read the pdf “Sex God Method” (Google that shit) A lot of guys’ problems are a faulty perception of what makes a good lover.”

Word. The wilder the bedroom antics get, the calmer she is. They’ll always ask for more.

Last night. “I don’t want to tell you…do something unexpected to me.” I was making shit up and getting mean. I hadn’t watched 50 SOG. Watch what they respond to.

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7 You can never really go home again. Power was mentioned above, which with women often manifests as control freak. It might seem reasonable that a woman with a beta would be glad to see him morph into something more desirable, but in practice, many women will actively RESIST his efforts at self-improvement. He’s dieting and looking better, she starts offering him more food. He’s finding time to work out, or put in extra effort to advance his prospects at work, she works harder to distract him. She does not want to lose the control advantage,… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@newlyaloof I don’t think there’s any age that they won’t be fucked up a little. It’s the degree of fucked up-ness compared to your age that counts. i left when mine were 16 and 20 so they had a chance of getting a stable base (as much as possible I guess). On the other hand, I was 57 but relatively young-ish but this still hampers me targeting my preferred age range. So a cold-hearted calculation is needed – at what point do you sacrifice your remaining ‘prime’ years compared to the kid’s age and their ability to bounce back from… Read more »

Rand Hooks
Guest
Rand Hooks

Reading this just affirms what took place last night. I went through my phone and deleted any beta text message threads I sent girls in the past along with their phone numbers. There was a lot to delete. Then I went on to my Facebook page and removed myself from any groups that either flat out or appeared to appease beta behavior. Then this morning I read this. It’s perfect. As far as I’m concerned who I was is dead, that has to include everything I touched previously when it comes to women. Only dogs don’t have the sense to… Read more »

Lost Patrol
Guest
Lost Patrol

She will therefore keep the power, even if it doesn’t feel good for her to have the power, because she trusts herself with it more than beta you, who is not worthy of her respect.

As I’m typing, Nova is explaining it better.

newlyaloof
Guest

@DisgruntledEarthling So you gave your kids 20 and 16 years of everything you had, and now after divorce, you are the bad guy? That’s fucked up, but one day they may understand, if they learn the red pill.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

Yup I’m the bad guy. I built a farm from scratch so they could have horses and a country life. The 16 (now 17yo) lives with her mother and never bothers to visit. The 21yo is moving to her mother’s because I yelled at her for leaving dirty dishes in the sink (for the n’th time) so the horse are leaving too.
Boys might have behaved differently I guess.

SFC Ton
Guest

Iron Rule of Tomassi #7 might be the most difficult one to convey to cherries.

Seems like a good 50% of the dudes I try to help want to pull their experience back in.

Also, pretty much everything Roosh has said is bullshit.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

Never run back to whatever broke you.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

Funny comment from Wife last night in some discussion about what we are going to be doing in the near future:

me: What did you think we were going to do about XYZ?

wife: Whatever the fuck Agent P wants to do, like everything else.

me: heheheh, good girl.

SFC Ton
Guest

400 lbs of iron ?

Overhead press day?

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

@rollo Great piece as always, look forward to next chapters. A small formatting request if I may: When checking the site on my iproduct, if I come to the site and I want to see comments I have to scroll scroll scroll scroll for ever to get to the bottom to click the latest comments button to get to the end of comments. It’s a whole lot of scrolling to get to the latest action. Any chance a button could be placed at the TOP of the home screen or on the menu bar at the top to short cut… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

I wonder what Red Pill men actually demonstrate by staying in bad marriages? I guess it does matter a lot what the man does while in the marriage, so if he’s got plates and the wife is cowed maybe it’s not so bad. But that seems to be the exception, not the rule. When they are very young, of course they need momma and dad intensively. But teen kids? How about showing that Dad isn’t a schmuck and is going to enjoy life on his own terms? Teen kids don’t need anywhere near the amount of structure and attention they… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

Good job Rand

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

@SFCton overhead press day, I wish. I fucked my shoulder good and proper 20 years ago in a mountain bike accident, that is now my Achillies heel doing Overhead Press but I keep at it. As a sailing guy I am awesome at pulling on things but kind of suck at pushing things so that’s what I am working on now. Only been lifting off and on for six months or so, I have a loooooong way to go to get to where I wish to be in that regard. Rejoice, today I am off to the shop to pick… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

@ Rollo – “The first presumption is that revenge might motivate a guy to want to pump and dump a girl who once blew him out back when he was locked into his Blue Pill mentality. Women like this idea because they think it confirms men’s egos being easily bruised, but I don’t think this is always the case.” “Women like this idea because they think it confirms men’s egos being easily bruised”. I just realized something about women while reading those words. They often reference “men’s egos”. This is usually in the context of denigrating men in general or… Read more »

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

@NBTM

https://therationalmale.com/2013/07/18/crisis-of-motive/

Thus my joke earlier about why I am doing what I am doing.

SFC Ton
Guest

Learn to pack your shoulders

Get a kettle bell, overhead press it and walk around

Get a hammer and a tire, wail on the tire with the hammer

Won’t fix your shit but is a lot more effective then any traditional rehab program

theasdgamer
Guest

@Ergo Slugg, the Physical Humorist It’s not about attraction, it’s about power. Once she’s had power over you, there a 99.9% likelihood that she’s never giving it up, regardless of your self-improvement or changed attitude. I saw it in my marriage, and the only solution was to leave her, regardless of the cost. Now I’m happier than ever before, and still kick myself for not leaving sooner. The more that a woman is attracted to you, the more power you have in the relationship, ceteris paribus. I have finished reading Robert Greene’s “The 48 Laws of Power” (TFLoP) and it… Read more »

SFC Ton
Guest

Red Pill is a set of truths

A man can be Red Pill, aware of those truths, and do nothing to improve his lot in life
He can be aware, improve the shit out of himself and go his own way
He can be aware and go out and bang 20 year old hottie without much self improvement

Etc etc etc

I.H.
Guest
I.H.

Waited until the youngest went to college. I was 52. For a few years before that, I had been making changes. But the more I became the new, real me, the more she didn’t like it. Agreed on the power angle. She had this image of who and what I was supposed to be. And when I wasn’t like that anymore, it frightened her because she felt like she was losing control. There was also this smugness about her. She thought she had everything clamped down tight. I still remember the day I got in her face because she was… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

Re: Pitt v. Jolie – See this article http://www.newser.com/story/236646/in-surprise-turn-jolie-pitt-claim-a-united-front.html Now they are presenting a “united front”. Hmmm, when Pitt was accused and investigated for drunkenly abusing his children that didn’t seem to be the case. It’s only after LE did thorough investigations and the charges against Pitt were found to be utterly baseless did this position emerge. Try to imagine the shoe was on the other foot. A say Kanye accuses Kim of abusing the children while drunk, and then it was shown to be false. Do you think the next thing we’d see is a “united front”? And the… Read more »

Karnak
Guest
Karnak

It’d be good for most guys to stop for a while and consider that most of the great scientific and cultural advancements in human history and human thought were created by men who were single or had lousy marriages. Really makes you think, doesn’t it? It seems that in most cases being with a woman usually = mental castration. I can see that from 90% of my old friends who are married. Guys who loved to party, were smart, had hobbies, loved to read and improve themselves. Now turned into “mental eunuchs”. Don’t like to see movies, don’t like to… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@scrib I also think that this may be part of what the @OMGs have been getting at, that long term, marriage game is a nonstop, multi-dimensional game that has its own intensities and characteristics. That’s why they feel so strongly about game, as they are testing it in a non-stop tumbler of female chaos and yes, power. Your posts are now so awesome. I admire you and your growth. I would LIKE to sign on to what you say here, since I am an OMG, but I will have to think about this. Marriage is nonstop, to be sure, but… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@scribblerg Well spoke about the teen thing. My method was to slowly let them gain their freedom and work things out themselves. By age 15/16 they were basically managing the horses themselves (vet, farrier, loading/unloading from the trailer, etc). But that was my way – their mother still mother-hens them. I think I remember once when my parents showed up to an actual baseball game when I was a kid (60’s/70’s). Other than that I was on my own which was good. The problem I see with ‘modern’ parents is I feel they’re trying to re-live their youth through their… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@ASD – It’s multi-dimensional in the way that you mentioned. In game for plates, you are solving for a mostly lover qualification as it’s all about sex. But in LTR, or really anything more than just Plate-Fucking, you are also qualifying as boyfriend and need to deliver comfort in careful ways. In fact, I see this as the hardest part. Being dominant and aloof and self-centered comes naturally after a while, but I now do way too much of it to be in a relationship. The complaints the HB9 has about me after spending a few days with me were… Read more »

peregrinejohn
Guest
peregrinejohn

Well damn. Scribblerg’s comment above about what the OMGs are getting at is what I’m getting here, in spades. The post is good, of course, but you guys are validating every observation I’ve ever made while wondering if I was seeing things. This OMG isn’t losing his mind after all.

I foresee gamer’s Come To Jesus moment happening in about a year.

SFC Ton
Guest

An ltr is an extended ons

Fred Flange, persun of interest
Guest
Fred Flange, persun of interest

@Novaseeker Would augment a little bit the point that a husband must gain back the respect the woman who distrusts giving the power back to her perceived beta wuss. Which is: Because pushing for respect may be difficult is no reason to not try. Even a woman who, by temperament and even by words, might not be inclined to give back the power, if you push for that respect you can still get it back, at least enough to matter. In short, they may say they won’t cede power, but if you give them a chance, they’ll happily give it… Read more »

Ronin
Guest
Ronin

Pretty much everything most men do is in the pursuit of pussy and convincing themselves women are capable of some sort of divine love…short of becoming a Monk this is going to be the case for the vast majority of men under 60. The biggest shock for me was realizing the simple truth at 56 that I had wasted much of my life and potential doing just that, Even now after six years of RP rebuilding of my life I have to remind myself everyday of this.

walawala
Guest
walawala

Therein lies the whole paradox of adopting the Red Pill. Adopting the Red Pill to win back an ex by its very motivation…is Blue Pill. Adopting Red Pill thinking as a way of living and game as the tool to maintain this requires discipline and a clear understanding of true female Nature which is driven by hypergamy…or always seeking to trade up. Using any strategy to “win” or “win back” any woman is low value….when you chase you make her high value…women don’t want to be in this position and if it’s forced on them hypergamy will prompt them to… Read more »

Tarl
Guest

I could have written that reddit post. I thought for a long time I could save my marriage, but I’ve left that thought behind. I, too, am only staying around my house for the kid’s sake, but I have moved all my money into my own account that only I control and am looking into getting an apartment close to work. Sucks though, man! I’m the life of the party at home, so if daddy leaves, every ounce of fun will disappear from every single day of the week for my kids. Yup, me too, except I was just a… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

Ronin
“Pretty much everything most men do is in the pursuit of pussy and convincing themselves women are capable of some sort of divine love…”
Yes but in a red pill context it’s applied as inward growth that can implode into self expression. That divine love is conditional. Always has been especially when women are involved. The red pill is what people are not what we want them to be. It’s something that helps me reach an ideal of the divine without being angry otherwise.

SFC Ton
Guest

When are incapable of love

Their submission, however, is a close proxy. Probably so close less experienced men can’t tell the difference

SFC Ton
Guest

Women are….. fucking auto correct

Ronin
Guest
Ronin

rugby11,

Anger is of course just one phase most of us go through and pretty much have to on the road to self change. I’ve gone through it all, rode the emotional rollercoaster after 24 years of marriage, but still have to remind myself that life with women is basically the maxim for Klingon’s from Star Trek…”One must never weaken”……

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Scribblerg Solving for sex is much simpler than solving for LTR. Make sense? Abundant sense… this is the problem Yareally kept running into in denigrating the “OMGs”… I wonder what Red Pill men actually demonstrate by staying in bad marriages? I question if this is even possible, truly Red Pill guy will not be in a bad marriage… either the W will respond to his increasing RP behavior and change or he will leave… It’s the Purple PIll dudes… the Blue beta’s who never can get a full shade of red going that persist in this No Man’s Land… except… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

Ton
“Women are….. fucking auto correct”
Not all the time.
Ronin
If I’ve learned anything thy is the burden of performance. It’s being strong when everything falls apart. It’s embracing pain but choosing not to suffer. It’s being alive completely in harmony of your existence. Maintains the chaos and turmoil from the outside by having a balanced inside.

Sentient
Guest
Sentient

Tarl Right now I keep hearing that any changes I make in me are “under duress” and “not the real me”. Basically she saw the weak beta for so long that she fully expects me to relapse into that guy (who is the “real me”) at any moment. Tarl you can still turn it around, but you must change your frame and not keep doing things to be reflecting through the “how will she see this” prism…. for real. That and beginning to show the dynamic, passionate and authentic qualities that all women find attractive, i.e. other women… Once those… Read more »

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

@ Sentient

“Tarl you can still turn it around, but you must change….”

Word. Love your optimism.

lh
Guest
lh

Dear wise men, I need some topic-related advice for a friend: Almost 2 years ago when I was commenting here more often a married friend of mine got into trouble when the mother of his 2 children decided she wanted to leave him to fuck some more men apparently. I found my friend in deep emotional trouble because of it when he started crying in front of me and I had to hug him to make him feel better. I decided to help him and told him what to do to regain control of his emotions and to get out… Read more »

SJF
Guest
SJF

@Tarl Six months is nothing. And it is actually not too hard. Is it worth it? Only you can tell. I’m a quick learner and a self described inscrutable mastermind (and I had a lot of desire to turn around the betatization process because I judged it emminently worthwhile), but it took me 25 months to get traction (one month for every year of marraige and betatization). Here is the tide against which you swim: Illimitable Men MAXIM #22: “Women don’t care about your struggles, only your successes.” IM MAXIM #23: “Women want the final product, but successful men value… Read more »

Ronin
Guest
Ronin

I think you can only really be the “New Man” to a Wife or LTR is if :

-She has not already decided to leave you ( they often do this long before there is any clue they’ve done it)

-She currently has no other option in mind.

-Other women higher in SMV than her are suddenly slavering all over the new improved version of you….

The main problem with this is the ‘New Improved You’ is stuck with a woman who is seldom worthy of the changes you’ve made and will attempt to tear you back down at every opportunity.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

@ lh

How open is he to RP? Is he really? Don’t let him drag you into his shitstorm if he’s not directly requesting advice from you. If you’re offering unsolicited (often futile) solid RP advice, and he’s cherry picking certain rules, inconsistently applying them…that’s trouble for him…and exasperation for you…seeing a friend blow himself up with your help.

EhIntellect
Guest
EhIntellect

“…is stuck with a woman who is seldom worthy of the changes you’ve made and will attempt to tear you back down at every opportunity.”

She’ll test shoddy frame and this isn’t about her anyways, she never was worthy. Guys underestimate themselves into inaction and drift.

Seaman Stain
Guest
Seaman Stain

@lh I would tell your friend that he should seek pleasure elsewhere, he’s “rooting through garbage”. Once a woman cheats on you the relationship is done, over, gone, for the rest of time. To me it doesn’t matter what she offers or does to get you back, she’ll always have a low level of respect for you consciously or subconsciously if you get back together with her after she cheated. This signals extreme weakness on the mans part to take back a cheating ho and all women instinctively know this. As a newly awakened red pill dude, how do you… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

“Adopting the Red Pill to win back an ex by its very motivation…is Blue Pill.”

The Red Pill is contraband, so it is traded on the black market where there is no assurance of dosage or quality. The majority of Red Pills being hawked by some guy down a dark alley with a, “Pssssssst, hey, Buddy, you some good shit?” are Blue Pills in a red candy coating.

And even the Blue is likely cut with Draino.

fleezer
Guest
fleezer

“I wonder what Red Pill men actually demonstrate by staying in bad marriages?”

I wonder what red pill men demonstrate by staying in “good” marriages

the other day I told the wife I’m selling her engagement ring as I dislike what it represents. she was not thrilled but did not object. this is also a good reminder of the idea of what something is supposedly “worth” versus what someone will actually trade for it as the insurance “value” of that diamond is easily 300% or more higher than what a rational man will give me for it on any given day.

lh
Guest
lh

@EhIntellect: He is generally very open for good advice and seeks himself good advisers. He is also open to RP ideas. But he is mostly unwilling to do all the hard work of understanding and working on the details. He is from a very wealthy family and can usually get himself what he wants. This trouble-free life gets him close enough to ZFG, but it also makes many things too easy. Too low T? He will go get him a car with more power. I think he understood now how he can’t buy women though, which was his main mistake.… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

@lh: ” Is there anything else to tell him?”

From where the Sun now stands, he shall make no more contact, forever.

Not that he’ll listen or anything. The burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire.

Fred Flange, persun of interest
Guest
Fred Flange, persun of interest

The parenting-type rant what follows – partly in answer to Grandmaster G above – is based on personal observations of slack parenting all around me. It’s not directed to anybody here or meant to speak to any commenter’s past actions or experiences. Maybe what I say will more usefully fit in with part 2 of the series. In my days since becoming The Day My Pad Went Mad, Dad, I’ve seen every dodgy parenting trend imaginable among my MC and UMC neighbors. Name it, I saw it. I established a rule I still follow: study what they do very closely.… Read more »

lh
Guest
lh

@kfg: Do you have children? I don’t. I don’t really now how it is. That’s why I don’t know. These girls are quite young still. And this mother needs someone to keep her in check, which he knew already.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning

@Novaseeker – January 11, 2017 at 5:56 am “I think Ergo is right as well. The issue is that once you go beta in a marriage, the woman gets the power in the marriage. She may like this, she may not like it (most of them don’t like it in the long run, even if they do in the short run), but once it happens it’s exceptionally hard to turn it back the other way. The reason isn’t that she wants the power herself (some do, but many don’t), but that she doesn’t respect you enough to cede power to… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@scrib Calibrating the old lady and figuring out her game can be challenging because she gets to know you and your game. I busted Mrs. Gamer’s aloof game recently by totally switching my game from aloof to “I’m not hot enough for you and you need to let me go.” I did this in conjunction with “Young girls flirt with me and test my boundaries and old ladies think I’m creepy for enforcing my boundaries.” Mrs. Gamer asked for an example, which I readily supplied. It was all authentic and a great whipsaw. This fried Mrs. Gamer’s circuits as she… Read more »

Tarl
Guest

The process was helped by the MRP reddit process including Blue Pill Professor’s book. Yup, I have read it, and I read reddit askmrp and marriedredpill. I would say I am at Dread Level 5 now. Been studying game because my game is weak and always has been. Unquestionably, dread will not work on the wife at this stage of the relationship, because she is so checked out. (She’d be like, “Another woman? Great, have fun, see ya!”) But, I need to learn game anyway. It will either be used in this marriage or in subsequent relationships… In other news,… Read more »

rugby11
Guest
rugby11

CSP
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NVc

foxster
Guest

“OMG” used in this context is new to me, someone mind spelling it out for me?

peregrinejohn
Guest
peregrinejohn

@peregrine I foresee gamer’s Come To Jesus moment happening in about a year. Maybe, but people have been saying that about me for a couple of years now. People have been saying over on Dalrock’s that me going out on weekends would result in my divorce Real Soon Now ™. I totally misworded that, which is what I get for whipping through here between projects. I meant that I foresee the CTJ moment you described being delivered by me in about a year. It’s either that or the whipsaw treatment you just mentioned, which combined with Ronin’s criteria for being… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg

@lh: “Do you have children?”

Not any more. It hurt. I left and I stayed gone anyway. There was nothing I could do to keep her in check.

“And this mother needs someone to keep her in check . . .”

His kids may still be his problem, but she isn’t, and that isn’t why he’s fucking her anyway. His finger is already back in the fire, the pain just hasn’t hit the ganglion yet.

It will.

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@foxster
OMG = Old Married Guy
Don’t fuck with these guys 😉

DisgruntledEarthling
Guest
DisgruntledEarthling

@Fred
Always enjoy reading your posts – so poetic

lh
Guest
lh

I here you, kfg, and I admire your strength. But he could actually keep her in check enough until she wanted divorce to get out. It is also a game of power: In his marriage, he was the mid-20 rich boy with the girl in her prime. Now he is late 30 running a successful business of his own. And we totally destroyed her in that divorce. He is her only chance and she won’t underestimate him anymore. For me the question isn’t pain or not. It’s about ambition: Do you want to fuck better, hotter girls or do you… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@LH – So many smart guys here and elsewhere in the manosphere on this stuff. That said, your friend really rang a bell with me. I like to show rather than tell. I’ve done this with 3-4 guys over the past year, so it’s not something I run around doing. But instead of talking Red Pill, I just open any women in the vicinity. Then I explain why it worked, later. Different conversations after that. But as in all things, I determine someone’s interest by their behavior. A young sales guy I noticed actually took my suggestion and read all… Read more »

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@Flanger – World Class Rant. +1

kfg
Guest
kfg

“But he could actually keep her in check enough until she wanted divorce to get out.”

This is the Blue Pill way of phrasing “he couldn’t keep her in check.”

“He is her only chance and she won’t underestimate him anymore.”

Tally Cap’n Save a Hoooooo!

” . . . do you want to live with your children and family?”

Certainly. With a white picket fence around the cute, little pink castle, with cute, little, comic relief, talking animals who do all the housework.

Sign me up, Scotty.

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader

lh
But still, I don’t really know what advice to give him other than Rollo’s iron rule. Is there anything else to tell him?

Just Say No.
She’s burned her bridges, the ferryboat, the ferry landing, any cablecars, etc. with regard to him.
He’s only going to set himself up for bad things by taking her back.

scribblerg
Guest
scribblerg

@ASD – Pretty funny that we’d connect over providing comfort to a woman, lol. Like I say, just stay in the fight, take the next step, make it to the next second and you never know what the fuck is going to happen. Life just gets more and more surprising. Difference these days? I’m open to all of it, and in many ways only because the Zero Fucks Given thing has really taken hold. Like what do I care that I used to be pissed off at you? Whatever. Back to the chiquitas. Ya, I had no idea how far… Read more »

theasdgamer
Guest

@peregrine

My path was to learn to dance well and lose a lot of weight and go out weekends and learn to give more comfort; I’m still working on giving comfort.

Best wishes in your endeavor…play the field.

J
Guest
J

If a woman doesn’t respect you, she won’t love you or lust after you. If you don’t tolerate her garbage and respect yourself, and hold her to a high standard of behavior, then that’s the most important thing. Her response to your standards should be irrelevant. I mean it shouldn’t alter your behavior. Her response is only relevant in deciding whether to keep her or kick her to the curb. Whether you stay or walk away. That’s it. Trying to stay in a dead relationship is as pointless as doing CPR to a dead body. It’s like trying to stay… Read more »

middleagepua
Guest

Guys, I’ve never been married, but if I was and my wife cut off the sex because she saw me as a beta, I would cheat. If she see’s you as a beta, she will never suspect anything right?

lh
Guest
lh

You’re right Scribbler, it’s not my part to decide. But since I told him how to use some dynamite to get into that position, at least I want good answers when I get asked.

Agent P
Guest
Agent P

@middleagedpua
that is / was an effective strategy.

1 2 3 6