The Reconstruction II

reconstructionii

One of the most influential books I’ve ever read I picked up from my father’s home library when I was about 25. That book was Dr. Warren Farrell’s Why Men Are The Way They Are. At the time it didn’t strike me as odd that my father would have this book in his collection – my clinically depressed, 3rd wave feminist, aging hippy of a step-mother had eventually roped him into reading it for some Unitarian book club they belonged to in the early 90s. I still have it. It’s even got her penciled-in liner notes scribbled in the margins with all the feminist outrage I imagine it must’ve inspired for her. It’s sort of a cosmic irony that the book she raged over would be instrumental for my own writing and online persona.

People always ask me when my point of unplugging came about, but if I’m honest, it was a gradual process that required a lot of bad experiences to learn my way out of the Matrix. However, Farrell’s book was a turning point for me. I’ve since had to reassess my opinion of Dr. Farrell – he’s still very much Blue Pill and will likely go to his grave never making the connection that a belief in egalitarian equalism (as taught to him by early feminism) is what’s kept him blind to really accepting Red Pill awareness. But if I had a moment of unplugging I’d say it was directly attributable to this book.

I think what got me the most about it at the time were the many stories of the men Farrell had done ‘men’s group’ sessions with while doing his research for the book. It was published 1986 (about 7 or 8 years before I read it) so it was already kind of dated when I read it, but for the most part these men sort of had these sit-ins with other men to relate with each other. If you’ve read my essay Tribes you’ll understand why these new-agey get together seem very contrived to me, but the stories these guys were relating in the early to mid 80s were about what I’d expect coming from my own Dad.

They all did everything right. Some were the products of the free love generation or the hedonistic 70s, but overall these guys were caught in the perfect storm of still clinging to the old books Beta-provisioning social contract and the expectation of 3rd wave feminists that they be ‘evolved males’. More than a few were attending these men’s groups at the behest of their empowered wives in the hopes that they’d learn to get in touch with their feminine sides or at least find some better way to meet their “needs”. I could see my father as one of these men.

Papa Tomassi was a very confused man with regard to women as it was, but to be caught on the cusp of an era when feminine social primacy coming into its own and still being part of the ‘do everything right’ social contract and the belief system that was doomed to fail in the decades to come, I can understand a lot of that confusion. One man in the book described it thusly:

“I feel like I’ve spent 40 years of my life working as hard as I could to become somebody I don’t even like.”

Each one of these guys related a similar frustration. They busted their asses for decades to fulfill the old books social contract, the one that had been the way you did the right thing in order to have a life with a woman, a family, kids, maybe grandchildren, and all of that was no longer working for men. The 24 year old Rollo Tomassi reading this book didn’t know what Hypergamy really was back then, but as I recount these men’s confusion today I can see that it was a result of being the first men to realize that institutionalized Hypergamy was erasing that old social paradigm for them.

Bad Investments

I’ve covered the fallacy of Relational Equity in a prior post, but I think it’s necessary to revisit the idea here to understand how it still undermines men in an era of Open Hypergamy and feminine social primacy. These men, most of whom are likely into their 70s now, had a preconception of what it meant to ‘do everything right’; to play by an understood rule set that women were supposed to find attractive, to acknowledge and honor. Furthermore, they were taught to expect a degree of mutual reason from these new, empowered and evolving women. If needs weren’t being met, well, then all that was necessary was a heart to heart and open communication and negotiation would set things back on track because women could be expected to be the functional equivalents of men. This was the golden, egalitarian, sexual equality, future that feminism promised the guys in the 70s and 80s.

Relational Equity is the misguided belief that ‘doing everything right’ would necessarily be what ultimately attracts a woman, kept a woman, a wife, an LTR, from both infidelity, and was an assurance of her continued happiness with her man. Needless to say, the collected experiences of men that’s led to the praxeology of what we know as Red Pill awareness puts the lie to this – but as men, we expect some kind of acknowledgement for our accomplishments. Rationally, in a male context, we expect that what we do will at least be recognized as valuable, if not honored, by other men. So by extension of our equalist social contract, women, whom we are told we should expect to be co-equal agents with men, should also be expected to see past their emotional Hypergamous natures and make a logical conclusion to be attracted to men who are good fits in a mutually understood sense.

This, of course, is nonsense for the same reason that expecting genuine desire can be negotiated is nonsense, but essentially this is essentially the idea the shifting social contract of the time was trying to convince men of. And as you might expect, those men, the ones with the insight to recognize it, saw it for the opportunism it really was. Even if they ended up at 40 hating who they’d become.

From Relational Equity:

This is a really tough truth for guys to swallow, because knowing how hypergamy works necessarily devalues their concept of relational equity with the woman they’re committed to, or considering commitment with. Men’s concept of relational equity stems from a mindset that accepts negotiated desire (not genuine desire) as a valid means of relationship security. This is precisely why most couples counseling fails – its operative origin begins from the misconception that genuine desire (hypergamy) can be negotiated indefinitely.

When we become Red Pill aware there is also a kind of Relational Equity we need to acknowledge and manage. Once we’ve unplugged it’s easy to get caught up in thinking that because we know the game, because we’ve gone through the trials, because we know we’re higher value men – if for no other reason than that we no longer subscribe to the misgivings of out Blue Pill conditioning – because of that awareness we tend to think that this should be consciously or tacitly appreciated by a wife, a girlfriend or the women we’re sarging in the club.

This can be kind of tough for an aware man because it’s often something we need to keep latent in ourselves. Being overt about Red Pill awareness with women is almost always self defeating because it exposes the Game. Women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told how it operates. In our everyday lives it’s necessary to reserve and observe or we risk changing the process.

Openly acknowledging the value a man believes he ought to inspire in a woman will alter her perception of that value. Most men who resort to forcing a woman’s hand by laying bare all the qualities of himself (real or imagined) he believes she should recognize and appreciate are only exposing their belief that Relational Equity and an old paradigm mindset is his mental point of origin. In truth, guys who attempt to set themselves apart by listing all the ways they’re valuable and playing by the rules generally get shamed by women in the end because those qualities have become so common place and expected that they’ve become debased.

So you’re a great father to your kids and a devoted husband who built himself into the guy that any woman should be attracted to, who should be a great catch? That’s great, but that’s what you’re supposed to do. And all those things you’re supposed to do, those aren’t what engender a woman’s genuine desire. In a feminine-primary social order – the same order that deliberately misdefines masculinity for men – all men need to do, endlessly, is just a bit more to do everything right.

The Awakening

On both the Married Red Pill and MGTOW Reddit forums there’s been discussed the concept of being ‘awakened while married’. Hopefully I wont butcher that concept too badly here, but I think one aspect of becoming Red Pill aware, whether you’re a young single guy or an old mature married one is that there comes a point when you are awake and aware of the conditioning and the intersexual paradigm you truly live in. Honestly, I envy the younger men who come into this awareness early in life, but I also recognize that theirs is a greater responsibility to the truth for the rest of their unplugged lives. Men awakened while married at least have the excuse of having been deluded by Blue Pill conditioning for most of their lives to that point.

For younger men the Red Pill presents challenges with each new prospective woman a man applies himself with. For the awakened married man, his challenge is reinventing himself in a Red Pill aware paradigm with a woman who is already intimately aware of his persona, possibly for decades. We always say that once you’ve become Red Pill aware there is no going back. Even for men who go into total denial and choose to live with the cognitive dissonance of what they know about their own Blue Pill conditioning and the socio-sexual game going on around them there will always be reminders of Red Pill awareness he’ll notice on his peripheries.

For a man awakened to his condition while married, his state is a never ending reminder of what his Blue Pill indenturement has made of him. Like the guy in Farrell’s men’s group, the Blue Pill husband has spent most of his life trying to become someone he may or may not like, but that process of becoming was prompted by his Blue Pill conditioned existence. Once that man becomes Red Pill aware he’s now faced with two problems – how will he remake himself and how will his wife accept that remaking?

From the earliest posts of this blog I’ve always stressed that a man’s dominant Frame in his relationship is vital to the function of that relationship. Unfortunately, most men who were awakened while married began their relationships with a strong Beta perception for their wives. We can debate as to whether just the commitment of marriage itself makes for a predominantly Beta perception of a man, but in an era of  masculine ridicule, Open Hypergamy and Alpha Widows it’s a good bet that women’s impression of their husbands is rarely one of reserved Alpha confidence.

This is a tough position for a Red Pill aware husband to confront. Sometimes a wife’s impression of his Beta-ness is too embedded, or she’s built a relational framework around expecting him to be a hapless Beta. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. Your predictability gives them a sense of control. I should add that this expectation of predictability isn’t just limited to a wife’s perception of her Beta husband. That can, and often does, extend to a man’s family or friends who also expect him to be the Beta he’s always been. This then presents another challenge in remaking himself into something new, dominant and respectable in his Red Pill awareness.

Many of the men I used to do peer counseling with back in the early 2000s only wanted one thing; they wanted their wives to have a genuine desire to fuck them with either an enthusiasm they’d never known (but believed was possible) or they hoped to re-experience (and hopefully sustain) a genuine sexual desire they’d enjoyed with their wives while they were dating. None of them wanted (at least at first) to abandon their marriages, they just wanted to do thing right so their wives would fuck them, love them, respect them. They really wanted things to work, and so much so that they would overtly ask their wives “what do I have to do to get you to love/fuck/respect me and I’LL DO IT!” Which of course was precisely the thing that turned their wives off even more.

Their overtness and desperation was only more reinforcement and confirmation of these men’s wives perception of their Beta statuses. However, these men are the descendants of the generations that convinced them that ‘open communication’ solves all relationship problems, but here they were, being open, direct, expecting a rational, negotiable solution to their problem only to have it drive their disgusted wives further from them.

Hypergamy doesn’t care when a woman’s lasting impression of a man is his Beta status. How a man’s Red Pill awareness and the changes it brings in him will be accepted depends largely on his predominant condition. What husbands want is a sea change in their wives’ impression of them once they adopt a Red Pill / Game aware way of life. Most husbands have to weigh their emotional and personal investments in their wives with the reality that their wives’ impressions of them may simply never change. Becoming Red Pill aware forces husbands into a position of having to judge whether their marriages are even worth the considerable effort of trying to improve.

In the next part of this series I’ll be exploring the challenges an ‘awakened while married’ man has to face while weighing his wife’s impression of him with the impressions women outside his marriage have of him.

 

 

417 comments

  1. Latin grandfathers advice: “Never all the love” and “Never all the money”. They knew what happens when you don’t manage hypergamy.

  2. More kudos and thanks to you Rollo. Your continued refinement on this topic is raising the bar for the benefit of humanity!

    A personal note that may be useful to others.

    I believe I am lucky (smart, strong?) that I emancipated myself from my single mom and instead of being her lifelong caregiver/breadwinner, fought against the pressure and situation of working to support the three of us and left to put myself through University. While the obvious benefits of getting educated in a useful STEM field was directly beneficial, salient to me (I found out much later) was the fact this choice represented the culmination of emotional independence (fewer Fs 2 give) I had been struggling to develop for years. This shaped my entire future and my brother, who didn’t follow my advice and leave soon thereafter marred his future, especially with respect to his ability to develop any red pill traits with women.

    While I was a blue pill victim in terms of indoctrination when I searched for “How to dominate your wife” on the Internet 2 years ago in response to the “last straw” event of my wife’s waning respect for me, I was a relatively easy convert (mentally not emotionally…it is HARD emotionally). It all made sense rather quickly and Rollo’s content was among the creme out there, specially since I am analytical and love understanding the why behind the what (to do, etc.). It took about 3 months for me to transform myself with literally hours of immersion on this every day. As one metric, in my late 40s (wife 10.5 years younger), we had intercourse more than once per day on average for close to a year before slowly settling into the ~4 times per week we are at now, partially because of my new job is so time consuming. My wife has way more respect for me and deference to me. My relative SMV has risen at least 3 notches against her and I have indirectly impelled her to work out more and lose 15 pounds (10 more would be perfect). She cooks, cleans, and serves me food without fuss at all. If I ever thought (and I have for a few weeks several times) “I have arrived”, this would slowly erode. That is not the way life works. You must enjoy the benefits, and then move to your next rung up your personal growth ladder.

    My advice for those with relationships that want more from an existing, decent, but not great LTR are:

    1. Keep reading this stuff, over and over until recall is easy. 100s of times if necessary. I recommend several of the popular leaders in this space as some put things very succinctly and with punch. Good attitude boosters.
    2. You cannot be emotionally dependent on the relationship. This kills your mindset. You can always choose your ultimate actions, but you must entertain the idea (go ahead and enjoy entertaining that idea) of being with another woman as an option for you at all times.
    3. Control your emotions. I didn’t realize how much of a whiner I was until I started really working on myself with rigor. Your woman’s reaction to you within 6-24 hours (not her words) will be your best litmus test. You are calm, even tempered and generally good natured 99% of the time, with short specific bursts of aggression when it is justified…then calm again.
    4. Develop your frame. You deserve better and you will ignore (or call out calmly) behavior that is less than you expect.
    5. You should use sound judgement, but should not feel guilty about your newfound self interest. Your relationships will improve and people around you will be happier in the long run. It is important to note that verbal complaining by a woman about your harshness, boldness or assertiveness is a good sign 99% of the time and typically following by a positive behavioral cues.

  3. @GW great points especially about emotional control. Emerging from or living in a blue pill coma may tend to passive aggressiveness which is counter productive to masculine virtues and family leadership.

  4. @Pinelero, re: emotional control etc

    Having come to RP some decade into my marriage I can attest to the challenges therein. I was always kind of Alpha in my outlook on life prior to marriage but steeped in BP bullshit. When I got married I signed on fully in the mistaken impression that you know shit like vows would be honored. Needless to say women do not honor vows, they are just place holders for men.

    It followed the standard arc down the hill and I got pretty fucking frustrated right away. Well after years of negotiating desire (wrong) and all the other BP traps including countless dollars wasted on marriage councillors (Lets do more of whats wrong faster while spending $150 an hour to do more wrong even faster and harder) I finally made the first big break I had to if I was going to meaningfully change the situation. I fucked another chick.

    There is, simply put, absolutely no better antidote to the spell that you are placed under in a shitty assed BP marriage. It’s her, its society, its you too that puts you under that spell. The spell for me was that intolerable cognitive dissonance going on between what she says and what she does (or not) and what “should be” and what is etc etc etc. Add in a few mental health issues with her and it absolutely warps your mind as a married man because for one you know you’re in slightly uncharted waters, “I mean hey sure I fucked 35 chicks before her and I’ve had plenty of relationships but you know its possible marriage is a different game and maybe I am missing something and doing it work, so I’ll work to try and fix it, make it better”.

    Of course all that work makes it worse and you pretty quickly get to a place of learned helplessness which is no way to live as a man, having erased all agency etc. Thus you are “under the spell”. Your sense of how to deal with women becomes bent by the intensity of the relationship and the lack of good outside references as to how things should be, whatever the fuck that is. It was worse for me because I had actually sort of self sensored and cut myself off from flirting with chicks etc so any innate sense of game started to suffer immensely as well.

    Well nothing blows that shit up like the sweet tender folds of another woman’s pussy, given freely, given with genuine desire, given on demand and given with pleasure.It’s like a hard reboot on all your relationship calibration sensors. An intense rush of memories came rushing back to me the first time I fucked a chick outside my marriage and it was wildly liberating. Not so much from the marriage but from the black pit of cognitive dissonance I had been trapped in for years. I was lifted up out of the blackness of endless failed communication etc and placed back in a reality rooted in nice solid primal desire. All of a sudden it was like, “Oh yeah THIS is what fucking is supposed to be like, I wasn;t dreaming or getting my perceptions warped by porn, chicks, some chicks anyhow, really like to fuck and more importantly they like to fuck ME!!!”.

    After that happened, I stepped back a whole big long way from my marriage and had a long hard look at things. Truth be told I still didn’t figure out how to fix it but I sure knew that what ever I had been “investing” in within the marriage was broken and more “investing” was not going to fix it. My low point / high point was fucking the other babe one day just before going to marriage councillng on the day of my wedding anniversary. I should get a shitlord of the month award for that move. Fuck was it ever worth it.

    It was the first major MPO move I had made in ages and it felt glorious. I felt for the first time in ages that maybe the world was not totally fucked. Sure enough I had been doing “all the right things” at that point and to no avail. Tripled size of business, quadrupled income, choreplay, even made the mistake of hiring the wife to shelter her from her own dumb behavior and decisions in other workplaces and all of that with ever diminishing returns in the bedroom.

    It took another few years after my affair to finally find the red pill. I have to say that in the time after the affair in my marriage, it was even worse than before for I had given myself a taste of what genuine desire was supposed to be then had to return the desert to wander for a good deal more than 40 days and nights.

    Its been three plus years since RP day one and things are substantially better. There was a phase of good solid genuine desire, I fully reset the clock within the relationship in many ways but now my problem is she just cannot keep up. By that I mean I have been growing and changing in fits and starts since RP day and she has evolved a bit within that but my SMV keeps ascending and hers is sliding slowly but surely. Whatsmore, she is slack and simply not trying particularly hard, at anything inside or outside the relationship. Its a PITA because it puts drag on everything. The difference between us is growing bigger with each passing day.Just the other day while drunk on her crazy meds she totally flipped out unleashing her unfiltered id wailing on essentially that she’ll never be good enough for me in bed etc etc etc. It was the mother of all comfort tests.

    I think at this point she has accepted that “he is going to go off and do his own thing and there’s not much I can do about it”. Which is not perfect but its not bad. Its unfortunate because things could be better between us but if she always harbors doubt because of a few years of Beta shit by me, it may well be salt upon the land for us keeping our relationship from ever getting back close to apex condition. I give her every chance to be able to step up to an RP relationship but I know I can never force her. Sadly I am kind of at the point where I am past giving a shit about it. I refuse to dump any emotional energy, time or money etc into “bringing her along”. I know she has to want to, but even if she wants to, it will never be enough to satisfy me. She tacitly knows this and is obviously balancing her need for security with what shes prepared to do or what she wants to do. I know she has no interest in leaving me, things are a bit too comfortable.

    So for now its MPO, keep getting better and let dread do its thing. My unspoken commitment to her at this point is simply that I will let her preserve her dignity in all of this. In other words I will be discrete and never piss in my own pool close to home. I have no doubt that she will smell something in the air as soon as I start with some other chick and she will come closer and try harder with me even if she doesn’t understand why. It’s too bad it has to come to this because things could be so much easier.

    So lesson to dead bedroom married men. Fix you first, shut your fucking mouth about pretty much everything, go fuck some other chicks to get your head straight and your balls drained, keep your mouth shut and your tracks clean. Then evaluate your situation.

    I think there is a lot to be said for the “french arrangement” which is pretty much husbands and wives of a certain age can run a side operation but its strictly a don’t ask don’t tell situation.

  5. @Agent P, so what did you say in the marriage counseling after you banged that other woman? You mention at the end of your post to “don’t tell”, so I’m assuming you never mentioned the bang. Do you think your wife knew of that bang subconsciously?

  6. @Agent P
    My low point / high point was fucking the other babe one day just before going to marriage councillng on the day of my wedding anniversary. I should get a shitlord of the month award for that move. Fuck was it ever worth it.

    Ha, my high point was fucking another woman in my/ex’s bed on my ex’s birthday. That felt good, for some reason.

    But seriously, Agent, your marriage sounds like something walking dead. For your own mental heath it may be better to abandon the thing and enjoy your new-found power. Your mileage may vary though…

  7. Good series so far, Rollo, and pretty timely for me.

    “I feel like I’ve spent 40 years of my life working as hard as I could to be somebody I don’t even like.”

    A while back when I first came here, I related the strange feeling that I had awoke and didn’t really know myself. I liken that feeling to the gentleman above, particularly because I also did not like myself, but then, I hadn’t for a long, long time. It was only when I started becoming Red Pill aware that I began to realize at least partly why. I likened it to suddenly feeling like a robot who had been all the while following someone else’s programming and then had become self-aware, and thus found it disorientating/bewildering…

    As I wrote before, I bounced around different sites before I came here, which has remained my home base for RP thought ever since. I still read the site, but I said I was going to take a break from commenting here because I felt I did not have much to contribute. I realized I was ‘talking’ and reading too much, and not DOING, and that I was in a rut of thinking I could read my way out of that rut. I was trying to improve myself to try do exactly what this series is exploring, Rollo, trying to revive the dead bedroom, trying to practice Red Pill in my life.

    I then hit roadblocks, stalled out, and even regressed.

    I have spent the last I don’t know how many months, maybe a year, trying to figure out what happened.

    One issue, several actually, you just high-lighted in the last post:

    “These men begin to see the results of their efforts, efforts often unbeknownst to his woman. She may witness the outward changes, but only he know the experience of his inward changes. Now he’s got to deal with new experiences that were previously foreign to him in his old, Blue Pill self-identity. Some are uncomfortable and require him to use judgement he’s never had to before. Others are temptations or opportunities he’s never had access to before.”

    For the first time in my life, as least as I noticed, I WAS getting temptations and opportunities. Not a lot, but for me, newly clued into things and on auto-pilot all these years, they were a revelation. Turning a HB8 blonde’s head and garnering a compliment out of the blue was like being struck with a thunderbolt.

    But, instead of exploring, even just a bit, I pulled back, or regressed into my “Gee…I am not really sure she’s into me” horse-shit with more than one woman. Also, to be honest, I was not willing to do the work and put myself out there. Add to it not wanting to blow my family life was also a consideration, even as I grew more annoyed with…

    “All of what’s led to this transition required a lot of personal investment on his part, and by his Red Pill awareness he’s done everything right. This transformative experience becomes a kind of Relational Equity for him; equity he believes his wife, his ex, the old high school girl who ignored him, should have some appreciation for.”

    I was improving, was getting responses from OTHER women, but from my spouse, it was like…

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Business as usual. In addition to doing all the OTHER stuff like working hard at a career which kept us pretty damn well off in several areas, I had worked on myself and improved and from the wife I got no measurable response, particularly the amorous kind. I concluded it had to be something wrong WITH ME, despite all the other indicators I was getting otherwise. I realized that if I was going to get the kind of sex and desire I wished, I was going to have to break my vows and go elsewhere, something I did not want, and yet DID want, to do.

    I grew frustrated and angry over it, lost the mojo I had gained and went eventually back to being 30 pounds over-weight, aimless and depressed. I have slowly been clawing my back to the realization that maybe…

    “Just like the old books men who believed that building themselves up in their careers or getting more in touch with their feminine sides would be the key to doing everything right, the Red Pill aware guy finds that it’s not him, it’s her.”

    …No matter what I do, there may be no adequate solution to fix THIS particular dynamic. I can only really work on ME, and getting bitter about that is pointless.

  8. Looking forward to the 3rd installment.

    In my opinion, it’s almost impossible for a marriage or LTR to stay together after a man takes the RP and improves himself. In many ways he is simply not the same person as before. And he never sees his wife the same way again. All of her games, manipulation, passive/aggressive behavior, and just general bullshit become so obvious to him. And he just gets to a “Fuck it, I don’t need this shit anymore” Point.

    When I see pictures of my ex wife via the kids now, it’s like: “Dear god I’m so happy I’m not with that bitter hag anymore”.

  9. I feel like I’ve spent 40 years of my life working as hard as I could to be somebody I don’t even like.

    I spent 28 years developing myself in my failed marriage and I must admit I do like what I’ve become. It’s the suppressed parts I missed. I used to be the biggest flirt when younger (this was before all the politically correct BS invasion of the office space) but university/CompSci/LTR somehow dominated the fun guy…

    It didn’t used to be “don’t shit where you work” back in the 80’s – especially in Montreal where I grew up

  10. @IH
    When I see pictures of my ex wife via the kids now, it’s like: “Dear god I’m so happy I’m not with that bitter hag anymore”.

    Amen.

  11. “Being overt about Red Pill awareness with women is almost always self defeating because it exposes the Game. Women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told how it operates. In our everyday lives it’s necessary to reserve and observe or we risk changing the process.”
    This has been a challenge anyone got experience with ways to observe and have discretion?

  12. @Newlyaloof

    “@Agent P, so what did you say in the marriage counseling after you banged that other woman? You mention at the end of your post to “don’t tell”, so I’m assuming you never mentioned the bang. Do you think your wife knew of that bang subconsciously?”

    I think I probably just sat there in the MC session serenely and thought to myself, “Fuck you two chicks (wife and MC) you are full of shit.”

    Where I had been always encouraged to emote, or “communicate” etc, I instinctively and reflexively just shut up that day and while they blathered on in a BP circle jerk I just thought about sidepiece blowing me not a few hours before in the back of her car. I mean that’s all I wanted right? at the end of the day I wanted genuine desire and I got it from a hot little spinner chick which is right in my wheelhouse. So I sat there productively daydreaming and remembering and thinking to myself why is “it, my marriage” not like that?

    The affair thing was disclosed by me some months after it ended. On the one hand a massive strategic error on my part, I needlessly disclosed a tiny partial truth and I trickle truthed my way through the whole thing passing it off as just one kiss. Many more MC sessions ensue for proper atonement etc. eventually the whole thing came to light in them midst of my RP awakening, luckily far enough in that I could handle the whole situation. In short it let off a tactical nuclear dread weapon within the relationship. She could never admit it to herself but it deeply turned her on that I had done it, I had gotten away with it and the woman I was with was a little hottie, who had paraded past my wife’s desk on a hundred occasions. It was also humiliating for her in so many ways.

    My only regrets to this day are, Not having enough game to keep the affair running nicely, not banging other chick more in even dirtier ways, because knowing what I know now, I could have gone very rough with that chick and she would have loooooved it. I sort of regret letting it out of the bag because of the BS I had to put up with after, but it was also one of the best things that came of it was wife learning I had SMV that was fungible.

  13. @Aloof

    Agent P, also, do you have any kids and if so, what were their ages when you decided to do what you did?

    Yes I have kids and they were still kind of in strollers when it happened.

  14. @SFC, you’d be right for sure about frame improvement, but my shorthand for ignorance (and implicit lack of power that ignorance leads to) is what I was referring to.

    @Agent P I have had those moments, which is healthy response to BS, and if my relationships wasn’t trending from decent to better than that consistently I’d be on a track similar to yours.
    1. As you probably know, but I’ll state for clarity, no one should look at the situation of another without understanding that each scenario is different. While the limbic system of each male and, separately, each female, are very much the same, each person can influence and improve the way they interact with others. My wife was raised somewhat red pill and I believe been relatively receptive to my changes and her behavior has improved. We’ll see if she keeps it up.
    2. My reading of your situation would be to assume you are leaving when you are good & ready and divest yourself from the relationship emotionally. This mindset will be a win-win as it is the proper mindset to always be in, even if your motivation ebbs and flows to act on it.

  15. @Agent P, thanks man.
    That’s the rub – tell the wife and get the crazy-bitch tornado in front of the kids, or don’t tell and she still thinks you’re beta. I think the best course of action, as you mentioned, is DON’T TALK ABOUT FIGHT CLUB, get you some on the side, and who cares if a middle-aged nag gets reinvigorated.

  16. @Earthling

    Walking dead marriage, perhaps yes perhaps no.

    It’s most certainly not what it could be in terms of a well tuned RP marriage. I will be honest, I get frustrated looking at the likes of Eh Intellect, sentient etc and how they manage to run their lives and their relationships and of course their bedrooms. I have not achieved that level of mastery in all areas of my life. As it happens right now my business is going crazy and its really easy for me to simply focus my energy on that and what I need to do to keep running the house right. I am almost done on trying to lead the relationship in the bedroom etc because there is simply very little energy being expended by her. Medium = message, I am not trying = I don’t care. So be it, I can fight that or accept it, no problem, I accept it.

    Reality is that we get on well, we share plenty of interests, we have a home and children to tend to. It’s clear to her there are not enough cash and prizes available to her to insent her to blow shit up. I can say I have tried every possible thing to make things better in that regard. At this point I have her at default yes for sex, so if I want it, I will never be refused, but I don’t really care for it anymore. But I know I simply need to be in the frame of mind at this point that I call “Escape velocity”.

    For me “escape velocity” simply means building myself to the point that I have enough momentum, enough personal agency and energy, that I have no problem leaving the relationship. I will have the tools I need to be happy for me on my terms. Then use those tools as I see fit. That could be equated with DPA and those ideas or it could simply be a certain kind of self assuredness that I can deal with the consequences of my actions in a way that is satisfactory to me.

    For the time being I don’t care to massively disrupt my shit as it will fuck up my kids and my business too much, so I am just being low key and chipping away at things. It’s nice because I have finally I think achieved some degree of outcome independence with regards to the entire relationship. If it blows up, I cannot say that I didn’t try everything, I did. The beauty of the OI is it removes the assignment of blame as well. For as long as I was deeply vested in the relationship, there is inevitably some residual sense of relational equity as Rollo so eloquently speaks of. True OI means you have gotten to the point where you really do write off any sense of relationship equity and in doing so you are relieved of a great burden, at least that is my experience. It’s hard to write off all you “invested” in but its the only real option to achieve true male agency. Now that I have written that off, I can just take each day as it comes, which makes it a shit ton easier to not blame her which would very quickly turn into resentment and contempt. That shit will fuck up friendly workable relationships.

    So walking dead marriage, nope, just marriage that is getting re-tooled to suit my needs better.

  17. “Being overt about Red Pill awareness with women is almost always self defeating because it exposes the Game. Women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told how it operates. In our everyday lives it’s necessary to reserve and observe or we risk changing the process.”

  18. @seraph

    Falling off the RP wagon, yep, that right there, I did that too and it hurt me a lot because it blew away any sense of congruency for what I was becoming. It was possibly the worst thing I could do really.

    I forget who brought up the gumption trap in a previous thread, that was me.

    I think I fell off for a number of reasons, Rollo has pointed out one, it still wasn’t getting me all the results I wanted trying to fix something that probably could and can never be fixed.

  19. Lose Frame, and suddenly you’re Sisyphus — except there is never a summit.
    The hill simply grows.

    Always be willing to walk.

  20. No T it’s worse, occasionally you slip and the boulder rolls all the way back down to the bottom and you have to start again.

  21. @Agent P – if you don’t have kids the decision is easier. My youngest daughter is the only reason I stayed during some of the uglier moments of unplugging.

    Now my situation is immensely better, but damn if I don’t get flashbacks that make me want to just walk away. Can’t change the past and no point in going off on something that is done and which might screw up the present and future – emotional control is frame control.

  22. @Rollo, OT

    Do you realize that, considering your line of work, you could start up a whole line of alcohols (vodka, rum, whiskey) and call it “Red Pill” (or hell even Tomassi), and you’d have an instant following of people drinking your line to show support for you and the cause? I’ve always wondered how many people know of the red pill. Well, your sales numbers would be a good gauge. Think of the conversations that could take place at bars when someone orders a Red Pill vodka, or a Tomassi Rum and coke. Remember your bird dog if you do this. 🙂

  23. “More than a few were attending these men’s groups at the behest of their empowered wives in the hopes that they’d learn to get in touch with their feminine sides or at least find some better way to meet their “needs”. ”

    I’ve been to more than a few of these. Parenting, marriage, Bible study. True, the women establish the coed groups usually, the guys are there in varying degrees of support. I sat, pontificated, ate, dropped sexual innuendo and mentally undressed the young moms. It was something to do and to me was entertaining. It does increase one’s social acceptance if that’s important. I get it though, the thought of it can be nauseating. Those days are done now. IMO they can be fun with the right ends in mind.

    “Rationally, in a male context, we expect that what we do will at least be recognized as valuable, if not honored, by other men.”

    Here’s something interesting. In the meeting rooms, official spaces hierarchy reigns supreme. We defer to another based on expertise, corporate expectations and perceived alphaness of the job. There’s more than a little white-collar AMOGing going on too. In the locker room though, at our most exposed, vulnerable, the banter changes. Fit, actually confident guys are deferred to, space made way for. In the ring, per se, the W-2 is irrelevant. The honor is subtle but real.

    “Being overt about Red Pill awareness with women is almost always self defeating because it exposes the Game. Women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told how it operates.”

    She knows what I’ve read, claims to have read it herself and has tried to use it as a frame breaker, I’ve been non-plussed about it and carried on. Honestly, now that she has my playbook, she continues to let me march down the field. Who’d a thunk? IMO her hindbrain want this too. I watch what she does, to hell with all else. Through the anger and mewling, she’s begging for more.

    “So you’re a great father to your kids and a devoted husband who built himself into the guy that any woman should be attracted to, who should be a great catch?”

    RP is considered universally toxic to parenting boys, essentially. Then again, I watch what she does and she’s essentially given up badgering the boys, feigns indignation at their assholery and RP approach to dating. Her attempts to cull the RP, again, are half-step and anemic. She wants her boys to be fully formed RP and hates the idea of what it actually requires. Women love men as cut and set diamonds; to acknowledge the heat, pressure, time and craftsmanship in creation reflects poorly on her contribution to the relationship, her assets.

    For younger men the Red Pill presents challenges with each new prospective woman a man applies himself with.

    My oldest analytical son sees the world, women candidly. He’s stopped texting girls because they’re not pursuing him. Christ, imagine what would that’ve been like? Knowing the playbook so young? Cool. He even said, “Dad, if I got worse grades I’d probably be having a lot more fun and it wouldn’t affect my success.” “You, son? Yep.”

  24. Agent p,Seraph,Newly

    Right there with you guys,couldn’t say it better and not going to try.

    “Do Just a bit more”LOL

    Newly ,Who cares about reinvigorating an old hag?

  25. “but damn if I don’t get flashbacks that make me want to just walk away.”

    My worst BP moments, unplugging failures…honestly, I feel like I’m reading another’s story.

    Me to me: “Really, EhIntellect? Did that happen? Huh. I guess it did.” (insert shoulder shrug)

    I get this way thinking about college and my Army tour, too. It wasn’t me. Just a memory of somebody else.

  26. @rollo

    “In the next part of this series I’ll be exploring the challenges an ‘awakened while married’ man has to face while weighing his wife’s impression of him with the impressions women outside his marriage have of him.”

    Wife while in a drunken should be slutty but instead crazy rage, “No I don’t want you to ________ in bed with me”

    More attractive married friend of family at the bar a few days earlier as I hold her neck in a friendly but very dominant and sexual gesture, “hehehehe yes P I want you to do that to me, hell why don’t we make it a threesome with ____ as well.”

    What’s a man to do when he knows there are actually no rules, the spoon doesn’t exist so there is no need to bend it with the mind.

  27. Good stuff Rollo.

    I had a mini flashback while reading.

    My Dad iis in his late 70s. I can recall the days of the sexual revolution and how my Dad ” handled ” my Mom who was in her mid 20s at the time

    It sounds brutish by today’s standards, but I can recall one particular instance when my mom was going out somewhere, and she was wearing an impossibly short miniskirt. My dad disapproved and told her to change, and in a rare display of defiance she refused, saying that she could wear what she wanted.

    He got up from his chair, walked over to her, grabbed her and literally ripped her skirt off and tore it to shreds. He then dragged her to the front door and threatened to put her outside iin her panties since ” you want to go out half naked “.

    He relented and returned to his chair. My Mom fell into a heap on the couch sobbing.

    After a few minutes my Dad walked over to her and told her ” if you are losing your mind you’d better get some help. Don’t ever talk back to me like that again understand? If you want to do whatever you want to, you can get the hell out, got it??”.

    And my Mom apologized (!!! ).

    As a kid I felt he overreacted and was too mean and harsh, but that was the only episode like that that I can recall. Oh, except for the time he caught her smoking. Sheeesh….

    But by the time I was a teen and was dealing with Lot’s of different chicks, what happened between my parents made more sense.

    They’re still married, over 50 years. Dad rarely has had to raise his voice to her for the past 40.

    When I hear ” sexual revolution ” that story always comes to mind.

    I know my thoughts are anachronistic mostly, but I can’t swallow the idea of women having authority in any way over men, especially iin relationships. This doesn’t mean I have to be a caveman with chicks, but it does mean I haventhe right of correction.

    Lol, this is another reason that if I ever find myself single again, I’d remain so. I’d probably get locked up if I dealt with the wrong, strong and independent woman.

  28. Same basic story. Married young, drift to beta. End up frustrated and annoyed. Did everything ‘right’ but life sucks.

    Start looking on the internet for advice. Discover Rollo, CH, Blackdragon and others. Learn what I’ve become and start to change. I call it ‘uping the alpha’. Work out more, dress better, return to being a audacious flirt.

    No effect on the wife. Her contempt for me is too strongly held. Random women I encounter are really interested.

    Start watching what she does. Note that there is no desire. She’d rather read a romance novel or a J. Meyers book about relationships vs coming to bed with me. Duty sex every 6 weeks or so. Cat gets more affection than I do. Get bitched at or a temper tantrum if I don’t do what she wants. Am told my wants are childish.

    Not willing to be her slave.

    Divorce her. Pay the price for my freedom and well being.

    Rediscover what it’s like to have a woman truly desire you. Blow jobs in the parking lot desire. Desire so strong, she won’t wait till we can get in the house from the garage.

    My life is so much better now.

    As a bonus, I can gloat cause she is still angry and unhappy. While I’m happily banging my, much younger, girlfriend.

  29. This is turning into a series of very good reflections. Well written, Rollo. I’m looking forward to the new chapter concerning “RP awakening on marriages”. Even though I suspect what the outcome is. I know plenty of chicks who, despite loving to fuck Alphas, are only interested in mantaining relationships with Betas. Betas always provide more money and are more submissive. And these women are 100% aware of this. That’s why BP guys are more likely to marry than RP dudes. Most women prefer “money and slaves” to genuine affection and equal roles in a relationship.

    It’s a shame how thing have evolved, really. I admit that I’d honestly prefer a society where men and women have equal rights and duties. Alas, such a society is utopic. Equal Gender Roles is like a Communist Society: It can work on paper. Yet in the end it’s all ruined because a bunch of greedy humans will want to abuse others and the system, sabotaging it so that it benefits only them and not society as a whole.

    @ Blaximus:
    Your father could only pull such a stuff on the 60’s or the 70’s. Different times, different societies.
    More than 10 years ago I did a similar thing with one of my exes. Things got quite messy. Let’s just say that the relationship did not end there and then because that girl loved to suck my cock.

    If your father had pulled a similar thing in the XXI century it’s quite likely that your parents would now be divorced and maybe your mom would even set the cops on him.

  30. “I admit that I’d honestly prefer a society where men and women have equal rights and duties.”

    Why? What’s the point of it? Not even the “perfect” society of ants, where communism works in the real world, does anything even remotely like that.

  31. @Rollo
    You’ve said before that your wife let you know that she didn’t like picturing you with other women as the time she wanted to be dating exclusively.
    What was that made you decide to stop spinning plates and date her exclusively?

  32. My own story largely parallels those of the other “woke” gentlecreatures here, except of course for some minutiae unique to me which doesn’t mean shit to a tree, as Grace Slick sang.

    (Flashback to happy hippie days of bad weed and a skipping LP of the Woodstock soundtrack)

    Only chiming in to amplify on the “relational equity” notion: the biggest goof before I began to unplug was trying to negotiate the fuck schedule. Complete waste of time and unbelievably uncomfortable and weird. But I learned: we don’t do that again.

    Also from that I learned why marriage counseling tends to fail. First they use “attachment psychology” which is meant for parent-child therapy. Guess who is supposed to be who. Then once you’re done sitting in the corner with a dunce cap, things are eventually “negotiated” but to get there you have to promise things you don’t want to do. When you do them she doesn’t really like them (because they are attempts at BP supplication and we all know how THAT leads to ficken-freude. Just like that highly touted concept, choreplay.

    The clusterfuck cuts both ways: she may promise to be more “receptive” to your “needs” but since Choreplay is really chode-play it don’t work because she’s not really feeling it, maybe giving in from a sense of disgustipated guilt, so it’s no good for her either. Paging Dr. Glover?

    Damn that evo-malutional-type psychopathology!!!

    Looking forward to part 3, I am doing my heavy bloviation training.

  33. Women want to play the game, they don’t want to be told how it operates. In our everyday lives it’s necessary to reserve and observe or we risk changing the process.

    Red Pill Secret Agent Man.

    In the spirit of rugby11.

    http://www.jango.com/music/Johnny+Rivers

    There’s a man who leads a life of danger
    To everyone he meets he stays a stranger
    With every move he makes another chance he takes
    Odds are he won’t live to see tomorrow

    Secret agent man, secret agent man
    They’ve given you a number and taken away your name

    Beware of pretty faces that you find
    A pretty face can hide an evil mind
    Ah, be careful what you say
    Or you’ll give yourself away
    Odds are you won’t live to see tomorrow

    Secret agent man, secret agent man
    They’ve given you a number and taken away your name

  34. In my opinion, it’s almost impossible for a marriage or LTR to stay together after a man takes the RP and improves himself. In many ways he is simply not the same person as before.

    The problem is not him but that SHE will never recognize he is different, will not acknowledge improvement, and will keep trying to force him into her frame where she is mommy and he is her naughty little beta boy.

    I am definitely in a place where her lasting impression of me is my Beta status. Yes, I want that sea change in her impression of me. Not there yet by a long shot. I am coming to terms with the reality that her impression of me may simply never change. I am now trying to judge whether the marriage is worth the considerable effort of trying to improve. And quite honestly, if not for the kids, the answer would have been a resounding NO and I would have pulled the plug many months ago.

  35. @Tarl: “if not for the kids, the answer would have been a resounding NO and I would have pulled the plug many months ago.”

    This year I’ve decided to not think so much about pulling the plug but rather inserting my plug into new outlets.

  36. Fred Flange in Smell-A-Rama
    Only chiming in to amplify on the “relational equity” notion: the biggest goof before I began to unplug was trying to negotiate the fuck schedule. Complete waste of time and unbelievably uncomfortable and weird. But I learned: we don’t do that again.

    I’ve read that stuff, it’s supposed to be more like having an affair, where the two people have to sneak around and schedule sexytime so that no one else finds out. But of course that would work with a high enough level of attraction – a level so high that scheduling would not be needed beyond “get those kids in bed / off to the movies”. The reality is something more like a job timeclock plus a dental hygene appointment.

    Karnak
    I admit that I’d honestly prefer a society where men and women have equal rights and duties. Alas, such a society is utopic.

    Such a society would be dystopic, and it’s sort of kind of what we have now, at least on paper.
    Kill that beta part of yourself, it’s not helping you in the least.

    Pinelero
    Now my situation is immensely better, but damn if I don’t get flashbacks that make me want to just walk away. Can’t change the past and no point in going off on something that is done and which might screw up the present and future – emotional control is frame control.

    Those flashbacks are just your own brain trying to protect you, in my opinion. Back in the old days when we took our dogs and spears to go kill big mammals, remembering bad events was important: “There’s where Ug went too close to the edge and slipped off and died. Bad place!” or “That’s where the leopard dropped out of the tree on Mug, we always look at branches like that!”. Except that now it’s emotional pain your brain is trying to protect against, by showing you a movie of something bad from the past, and that gets in the way of re-wiring / reconfiguring / rechanneling yourself. So it’s kind of vestigal in a way.

    Suggestion to try: when those flashbacks start up, and they often bring with them whatever emotion you were feeling at the moment, visualize how you would handle it now. Her Rolodex is finite, she only has so many variations on the same theme to throw at you, so if you can actively visualize in your own head, “Yeah, that time she tried to push me out of bed and started screaming Don’t touch me ever!“, I didn’t know better so I tried to placate her then I went and slept on the couch. But now I’d just start laughing at her for acting like a 2 year old, then … “.

    Look here, suppose that one time when you were younger you messed up bad in a car on ice and wound up going down the road sideways, maybe wound up smacking a pole. Would you let that movie play over and over in your head while you felt helpless? Or would you go out into a parking lot, skid that car on the ice to get the feel of it and how to turn into the skid to keep everything under control? Then play that “I got this, I can control this situation” movie in your head so that someday at night when you find some black ice in the dark, your “muscle memory” just steers that car right past danger?

    Sentient sometimes posts images or movies of surfers. I’m totally sure surfers don’t play the “wiped out’ movie in their head over and over, they play the “good ride!” movie. Positive self-reinforcement stuff works.

    Or to put it another way, when the shit storm flag flies, don’t be “Oh, no, not again! Why does this happen to me?” in your head. Instead hoist your own flag – red flag, battle flag, skull and crossbones, whatever – and remind yourself My Game is stronger than this silly girl. Or any other silly girl. Because they are all girls!.

    This is the long way around, ridiculously verbose, version of what Blaximus’s father did and said. But it’s the same thing. They are all girls.

  37. tarl
    The problem is not him but that SHE will never recognize he is different, will not acknowledge improvement, and will keep trying to force him into her frame where she is mommy and he is her naughty little beta boy.

    I’m not H A B D / habd, but I have to ask: how’s that FI treating you? Pushing on you?

    She want’s that alpha but isn’t sure that it’s sticking. Doubly so if a man was beta at marriage, but really an extended period of betaization has its own effect. Flashes of alpha mixed with beta are confusing to her hindbrain, so she unconsciously tries to shut down the flashes, since beta is predictable, if also boring.

    A man who is reinventing himself, getting his actions and his mental state more congruent, killing the beta; that man is scary-interesting, but the first response of the Female Imperative is to try to stuff him back into the Beta box he was in, because Beta is predictable. For this reason the shit testing can really flare up at a certain point in unplugging, can get worse than before. She’s got her own neural network of programmed responses, her Rolode, and when it stops working the way it used to, why not double down on the shit?

    Don’t try to negotiate desire. Don’t try to tell her how different things are, show her with the acceptance that screwups will happen, backsliding will happen, etc. This is where even mild Dread can be useful – she might fly into a temper tantrum when the waitress and the barmaid and even other girl customers are all being very nice to you, meh, so what?

    The tools of Game work. You know that. I know that. We all know that. Best part is, she doesn’t have to know anything.

  38. The problem is not him but that SHE will never recognize he is different, will not acknowledge improvement, and will keep trying to force him into her frame where she is mommy and he is her naughty little beta boy.

    Lemme put this another way. If he can develop his Game, and make his Frame strong enough, that she tires of trying to force him into her frame – he’s going to have such solid Game, such a strong Frame that the next woman will be sooo easy to lead. It’s like mental weight training.

  39. @ Tarl

    “will keep trying to force him into her frame where she is mommy and he is her naughty little beta boy.”

    Isn’t this her attempt to maintain status quo ante? She knows change will happen without the pressure. Isn’t this your opportunity to claw some frame back, if only piecemeal, and build from there?

    If you’re in it for the kids, not you primarily, damn brother, it’ll be hard to raise the kids free of the dysfunction. You don’t want that legacy, do you?

    It was always me, not her. I’ve never explained RP to her, let alone try to understand RP for her. AWALT. She just wants to play, forget operations. IMO, her nature doesn’t absolve me from facing the result of my dormant masculinity.

  40. @Newlyaloof

    Don’t know about Rollo, but you’ve given me the idea to craft a RedPill cocktail recipe. We could popularize it and ordering one could be a sort of ‘secret handshake’ lol.

    It will be red, and bitter.

    I’m thinking something like a base of whiskey (preferably Tap 8 lol), campari, Peychaud’s, maybe a splash of grapefruit, served in a tumbler with a block ice and absinthe rinse. Rather similar to a Sazerac but with a red glow and more nuance.

    I’ll give it a whirl. Might need some Luxardo or something depending on how it balances in practice.

    A ‘BluePill’ could just be Hpnotiq and vodka, served up in a coup glass. Something sweet but fake up on a pedestal.

  41. @Forge the sky, my thinking exactly about the “secret handshake” but it would not be a secret; it would be out in the open for all to chat about. Talk about a great way to promote the red pill and Game. Ever since I’ve learned the red pill, I’ve wanted to quit my job and do something related to red pill. If I had the dough, I’d do it myself. I’ve also been curious how many red pill dudes no longer want to work where they do after learning red pill. How many dudes are doing what they do because of blue pill conditioning? Would be a good topic, Rollo.

  42. @Tarl, Seraph

    A girl’s impression of you can change, though it’s not always an easy thing to enact.

    The best way to do it is via long-soft-nexting. When she sees you again after a period of absence – even if not physical absence lol, I did this with a girl I work around and just stopped talking to her for a while – you’ve changed.

    Barring that, she needs to believe that a new side of you she’s never been able to see before is emerging. This requires you to do things you’ve never done before, and allow new aspects of your personality – informed by good game – to be displayed in that new context.

    Finally, it’s common for men who have lost frame/hand to not really have a broad perspective on the overall dynamic of a relationship. It ain’t dread if you’re not gonna leave. It’s not passing a shit test if you feel a need to pass it, or expect favors for doing so. And the sorts of things that inspire a wife’s libido may not feel to comfortable for you to do, or even contemplate.

    You can start small if you have to, but you also need to break chains before you can move.

    First, this: what is it that you want to do with your life? What is it that you want to become?

  43. Totally cosign Agent P on this one, but understand that mileage may vary and everyone’s situ is unique. I did the same… Finally threw in the towel and drained my balls outside of the marriage and will still do so on occasion if the circumtances are just right: Discretion is an absolute must.

    In my case, I actually overheard her telling her friends one time that if I did ever DBE (drain balls elsewhere), she just absolutely didn’t want to know about it. Very well then… I’m not going to say that it’s ethically right — my own moral code does give me pangs of guilt about it, but with kids divorce isn’t an option… Relatively stable two parent home takes precedence.

    Re this: “That’s the rub – tell the wife and get the crazy-bitch tornado in front of the kids, or don’t tell and she still thinks you’re beta.”

    Absolutely, positively cover your tracks carefully and whatever you do, don’t tell! In my circumstance, I’m exceedingly cautious and won’t do it if there’s a chance it will come to light. I agree that it’s not fair to lay that on her.

    I also disagree that not telling keeps you in the beta doghouse. Something changed with me that she picked up on. It was subterranean (and this has taken at least 3 years), but subtle dread really has worked wonders. Shit tests are infrequent, sex is way better and more frequent, she’s much more pleasant, and we are getting along better than we ever have.

    Another point about dread… At our absolute low point about three years ago, In noticed that she stopped wearing her wedding ring. Never mentioned it to her, but I immediately stopped wearing mine as well and I haven’t put it on since. She has started wearing hers again. As I’ve previously noted, I travel frequently from Europe to the U.S. for biz and I know that she wonders what I’m up to… I know it bugs her that I never wear my ring anymore… Asks me if I have a girlfriend, hit on the flight attendants, get hit on, etc. I never give her “oh no darling, you’re the love of my life and I would never do that!”, but just jokingly reply with a smirk, “I have dozens of girlfriends and might actually have children all over the U.S. for all I know”. Either that or just a “don’t be ridiculous” works… It’s the classic response every time, a playful punch in the arm often followed by a right good roggering (the latter being the best “comfort test” there is IMHO.)

    Bottom line: This took years since I started following Rollo to have an impact. I was in beta purgatory for at least 4-5 years. Nothing seemed to work. It was only when I finally stopped really caring and put my needs first that she finally came around. It ain’t perfect, and I’m certainly not suggesting it’s the ideal or even the right path, but the marriage is a hell of a lot better and I actually really enjoy her company these days.

  44. @Forge

    Re: A Red Pill cocktail. Agree with the Campari, bourbon, grapefruit and bitters. I would suggest Chicago favorite Jeppson’s Malort for added masculine bitterness. It adds grapefruit, band-aid adhesive and gasoline overtones.

  45. One way a guy can get his wife to reappraise her opinion of him is to fuck around with women much younger than her. Not have a mistress or anything like that, but have a series of short relationships or ONS with much younger women over a period of several months to a year. Then, let her find out about it. She may leave you, but that’s fine. If she stays, and you hold frame, she will have accepted your new reality.

  46. @newlyaloof

    Left my position in structured finance in mid October, working at present on a start-up. I just honestly got so sick of office bullshit, did a 180 in sector direction and off i went.

    All going to plan first revenue generation should be late Feb, early March. I had anticipated a 6 month no income phase.

    Funding is in place and we are pretty much set on all aspects although the 14 hour days at present are for my benefit which has a surreal feeling to it.

  47. @Harry, so do you think red pill had anything to do with “getting sick of office bullshit”?
    Good luck on the start-up. I was involved in one during the 2000 pre-bubble dot com era. Wild ride.

  48. Jeremy

    Re Bottom Line… Yes it finally worked when you went all in on Jeremy… That is the trigger, not the other girls.

    Readers take note.

  49. “Jeppson’s Malort . . . adds grapefruit, band-aid adhesive and gasoline overtones. . . ”

    . . . and smells like Chicago.

  50. @Rollo

    You are getting perilously close to addressing my biggest piece of missing knowledge.

    Fist off, with red pill knowledge, some women simply aren’t marriage material. They seem like they are through blue pill lenses, but after the red pill it all becomes clear. Proverbs 25:24 calls them contentious women.

    When you awaken while married, we often find ourselves with one of these beasts. No amount of red pill is going to change it. In today’s legal world however, men are not free to withdraw their commitment like they were in the old days. If you have kids and want access to them, you stay in hell until they are old enough to have their opinions heard by family court.

    This is my situation. What is the strategy? In my mind, I concur with the few above that have advocated for quietly “cheating”. The word itself is still used as a shaming tactic. How can it be cheating though, when the other party has already abandoned their vows long ago? Continuing to be bound by a contract when the other party no longer is, is simply foolish. It’s a lot like an animal chewing of its leg because it’s foot got caught in a trap, but what other choice is there?

  51. Warren Farrell: I discovered his The Myth of Male Power in the mid-90s (when I was struggling to come to terms with what I’d learned about infant male circumcision and what it had done to me) and thought he did an excellent job of researching the subject, presenting plenty of documented backup. But then he ruined it all in the final chapter by opining that the solution to problems between the sexes is to make them more alike. Even then I knew that was 180° wrong: the solution is for men to become men again. (And women to revert to femininity – as they will do once the masculinity vacuum – which Nature abhors – is filled by men.) Well, after all, he was president of the NYC chapter of NOW, as I recall. From the little I’ve seen from him since (haven’t followed him), it seems unlikely he’ll ever cut the cord and figure it out.

  52. Forge
    It’s not passing a shit test if you feel a need to pass it, or expect favors for doing so.

    Exactly. It’s more like swatting a fly that’s being annoying. Or telling a dog, “Sit!” and seeing it sit. The expected result can be satisfying, but there’s no prize for swatting flies.

  53. I don’t think I need to go over why I believe it’s a bad idea to make the manosphere a vocation. However, two my new business partners both know my online persona and have mentioned my TRM ‘brand’ has more pull than 3 of the clubs I’m working with in my new gig.

  54. “Continuing to be bound by a contract when the other party no longer is, is simply foolish.”

    Paging Novaseeker. Philandery isn’t illegal, per se, but may have an impact on divorce proceedings. Nothing in the secular contract demanding monogamy as far as I know. It shows up if one wants out on adultery grounds and the bar of proof is pretty low.

    Catholocism’s marriage triad of monogamous, permanent and fruitful requires women to sex their husbands and frigidity has been successfully used as grounds for annulment. If she’s plays hide the vagina, she’s frustrating fruitfulness, isn’t she?

  55. @SJF

    Woa, a bitter thing I haven’t heard of before! Cool. I go to Chicago often enough that I might be able to track some down.

    Could replace the absinthe rinse I suppose, though I like the imagery of opening by smelling absinthe, which is associated with delirium, and is even green, like the code of the Matrix, before sipping the Red.

    @Rollo

    Ya it’s a dangerous thing to monetize a movement. Grassroots, else you get doctrines rather than leaders.

  56. Very OT, but this brought to mind something I made recently that some people might like.

    Haven’t named it yet, but it’s a spicy-pungent tropical liquor that, if traditional medicine is any guide, is great for digestion.

    -Get a 500mL jar. Put in:
    -1/3 cup or so of fresh, peeled and thinly sliced ginger root
    -1/3 cup or so fresh, peeled and thinly sliced turmeric root
    -a black cardamom pod
    -like…6-8 black peppercorns.

    Fill jar with good-quality vodka. Wait 2-3 weeks, shaking occasionally, then filter out and discard the solids, leaving you with a saffron-colored spicy-pungent liquor.

    Add some pineapple juice concentrate to make a bit sweet-sour, to taste.

    Can be had as-is or with ice and a splash of soda water.

    Tropical drinks can be masculine if you know what you’re about 😉

  57. Such a timely post, Rollo. Your work helped save my life when I took the red pill a year and a half ago. I can’t wait till the next installment….

    That said, this article speaks exactly to where I am today. I’m 46 in a marriage of nearly 12 years. I was a situational alpha to my Amazonian alpha wife. Once she got pregnant I declined into abject betahood, but honestly I grew up a pedestalizing blue pill due to being raised mostly by my mother. Sadly dad was a beta too – when he was there he wasn’t a great example. He was like those guys in Ferrell’s book. My mother got caught up in feminism, he was a steady provider from the old books, so their divorce was inevitable.

    Anyway, I still get bouts of depression since taking the red pill because a.) it sucks how much of this beautiful life I wasted believing in bullshit about women and relationships, and b.) I’ll never get that time back. The icing on the cake is that if it weren’t for my young daughter I wouldn’t be able to put up with my wife enough to stick around.

    Do I love her? Yes. Has she improved since I took the red pill and changed myself (i.e. weightlifting, NMMNG, improving my frame, etc.)? Yes. But the change only goes so far for her, and honestly the work it takes for me to get her to be better is often exhausting.

    At this point in time the question always on my mind is: IS THE JUICE WORTH THE SQUEEZE?

    If not for the obligation and duty I feel to keep my family intact, the answer is NO.

    The red pill is about facing reality. As such, I have to accept that as things stand my wife will never see me as anything but a shade of blue, unless I totally dread game her. Maybe I should.
    But she is who she is, and as soon as the dread wore off – or got to be more than she’s willing to deal with – she’d go back to being the same whining post-wall Strong Independent Woman she’s been for the last several years.

    Again, the question comes to: Is it worth the effort?

    Where I find myself now is that I have this red pill awareness, I see the code in the Matrix, but life at home is a constant struggle for frame. Amused mastery, being aloof, agree and amplify…. I do it all (imperfectly, I’ll admit). I’m on TRM, TRPreddit, Chateau, Illimitable Men, Masculine Development, RSD, ROK, etc… But it’s a lot of energy spent for little heat generated. The truth is that starting with a clean slate would be sooooo much easier than this slog.

    Marriage with kids is a huge blue pill shoved up the man’s ass. Extremely rare is the man who can stay red pill alpha in that – and he has to go into it being that way, not reforming later. Knowing what I know now I would NEVER get married again. It’s a sucker’s bet. Due to my age I sometimes feel like the best days of my life are behind me. I hate that feeling.

    My plan is to keep learning, keep improving on myself, get promoted at work, and when my daughter is at an appropriate age I can move on and live life the way a man should.

  58. “…..guys who attempt to set themselves apart by listing all the ways they’re valuable and playing by the rules generally get shamed by women in the end because those qualities have become so common place and expected that they’ve become debased.”

    1 + 1 does not equal 2.
    The balance sheet – the mental ledger – that catalogs all of our accrued favorable attributes, benefits, services, attention and resources provided to her will not balance, and will never “come due”. They cannot.

    She simply does care about math or some obscure, mental chart of accounts. Plus, it “would never occur to her” to garner any sense of duty or obligation for what you provide, and you would never want any such sense of obligation to form within her anyway because it would just succeed to destroy even the slightest amount of genuine sexual desire and admiration she might still have reserved for you.

    She really only cares about how you would make her feel.

    70 hour week at corporate job with $120K+ salary, 3 car garage and house in the burbs, vacations to Mexico?
    So fucking what.
    None of it constitutes or equates to a purchase order for her respect, admiration, genuine desire and sexual generosity.

    Meanwhile Chad Douchey McDouchemaster, who is unemployed, will not pay for a damn thing. He will act like a fucking prick, offend all of her closest friends, insult her father to his face, ignore her sensibilities and the most minor of requests, make zero investment in her well-being, and still enjoy the maximum of her sexual generosity on their first date.

    It’s is impossible for a man like me to accept this reality, and not be consumed with rage by it.
    She’ll never appreciate it. She can’t.
    So what’s the fucking point?

    Yes, I do so envy those men who become red pill aware when they are younger.
    It no doubt saves them time, effort, embarrassment, self-loathing and unnecessary pain.

    As a red pill latecomer, I cannot help but feel like a complete fool and a tool.
    But I am already for not having already accepted it.
    Any masculine evolution from red pill awareness on my part may still result in a “yeah, right.” response.

    Need to re-channeled all this into more positive endeavors and self-improvement

  59. Commute to work 3.5/4 hours round trip every day and then combined with office politics I honestly couldn’t wait to get going for myself and build a team. Top down being told the market is doing ABC when you know it’s doing XYZ and therefore no additional capital expenditure this year or next. The lip service paid to the ideology of transparency was nothing more than fleeting opaque gestures.

    I would honestly say I’d still be plugging away climbing someone else’s predefined steps on the ladder where it not for some very difficult questions I have had to ask myself thanks to this and other blogs and books. Not just my relationships with other people and women but my relationship with myself and removing oneself from any toxic environment/relationship as soon as possible.

    Now it’s no longer pre-defined and down to me and what I can build. My goals, objectives and dreams both business and sport.

    When this works and all going according to the objectives I have set I should be able to have a higher income than my last position in 1.5years while holding majority equity. I took the risk and if it pays off fantastic if not then I will move forward with the contingency plan.

    It’s not my first attempt either depending how you define failure, two failed attempts at launching two completely unrelated projects in the last five years. Onwards and upwards. Right now I don’t know what the future holds, and I like the fear of not knowing.

  60. Rollo,
    There is one thing I hope you touch on in some depth in the next segment on ‘awakened while married’ – The usually huge cost of divorce and the way the cards are stacked against a man in almost all aspects of family law.

    Many of the commenters above are saying they are staying in a marriage, or delayed exiting mostly for that reasons, especially when they have children. Men are usually pretty rational creatures, and they often do a practical assessment of the price they will pay (possibly for decades), figuratively and literally to take that step they need to do. I see that as one of the biggest barriers to awakened married men achieving their potential.

  61. Just want to say – I might have blown up my own LTR while being a disgruntled BPer, and may seem eager to advise others to follow suit, but I have great respect for those who discovered RP in time and are turning things around, at whatever rate.
    May the odds be ever in your favor.

  62. This was actually really well done, Tomassi.

    “Some were the products of the free love generation or the hedonistic 70s, but overall these guys were caught in the perfect storm of still clinging to the old books Beta-provisioning social contract and the expectation of 3rd wave feminists that they be ‘evolved males’.”

    Yes. How awful. I was very young, but I remember the drumming circles, the warrior men, the touch-feely evolving male stuff. At the same time, I was also reading feminist’s notes scribbled in the margins of some of those books, and trying to figure it all out. They were so full of rage, fury, indignation, desire….repressed sexual frustration?

    “Relational Equity is the misguided belief that ‘doing everything right’ would necessarily be what ultimately attracts a woman, kept a woman, a wife, an LTR, from both infidelity, and was an assurance of her continued happiness with her man.”

    This is quite true. Men all think they’re good guys, they all think if they just “do the right thing,” we’ll be attracted to them, but that’s not what attracts women at all, that’s not masculinity, that’s actually boring, perhaps the opposite of desire. Unless doing the right thing involves rushing shirtless into a burning building, which is a whole different dynamic.

  63. @Blaximus

    He got up from his chair, walked over to her, grabbed her and literally ripped her skirt off and tore it to shreds. He then dragged her to the front door and threatened to put her outside iin her panties since ” you want to go out half naked

    Yeah that would be my parent’s generation. The old man was like that but also a compete bastard all-around. These guys were RP before it was cool…

  64. @ DisgruntledEarthling

    Oh fuck yeah. The old man beat mom closed-fisted regularly. Holy shit did I fear his country boy unmitigated fury. God the whipping, I’d step out of line…I really didn’t know when he’d snap…I’d get cocky a few times…sibling fights…breaking furniture…didn’t rouse him…then, oh shit scatter! After 30 years, he got tired of beating her and left for greener pastures…and she hated him for leaving her. “I’ll never forgive him for divorcing me.” was the direct quote, from the hospital, raccoon eyed. My first red pill at 16. Gulp!

  65. @LookingForZion – “Where I find myself now is that I have this red pill awareness, I see the code in the Matrix, but life at home is a constant struggle for frame. Amused mastery, being aloof, agree and amplify…. I do it all (imperfectly, I’ll admit)…But it’s a lot of energy spent for little heat generated.”

    Dude, this was me for almost 5 long years! Rollo warned us that once your wife sees you as BP it’s extraordinarily difficult and time consuming to change that dynamic and he was absolutely right. My experience FWIW is that I had the RP awareness but frame, amused mastery, aloofness, etc. was not natural – it was forced and faked. Unsurprising really because these were muscles I hadn’t exercised in a long, long time. It’s no wonder the wife didn’t think it was real (she actually thought it was a big joke), because it WASN’T real. It was definitely “fake it until you make it.” Still have a long way to go and it’s a lifelong journey, but something unusual started happening about year 4: I was no longer faking it… I’d fully internalized RP and it it felt natural. I was getting serious IOI’s when I was around other women. I responded exactly the way those who share the (invaluable) field reports suggest, and the shit worked! It was such a natural textbook progression (1. IOI 2. my response to IOI 3. light banter 4. isolate 5. sexualize conversation, etc.) It worked on married women, women in their 20s, women with boyfriends. It really felt like I had some superpower. Totally intoxicating.

    At that point I knew i’d be okay, maybe even better off if I was single. I no longer really cared if we stayed married or not. In fact, the crowning anecdote was some meltdown with the wife one evening where she said she “seriously wondered whether we should still be married”. The next morning I called the best, most expensive divorce lawyer I could find and got him on retainer. That evening when the shit started again I calmly told her that I had a killer divorce lawyer already on retainer and had wired the money… “The ball’s in your court” I told her, “but understand the retainer stands… He’s ready to represent me anytime you’re ready to leave.” Her mouth dropped open and she had a look of horror and incredulity I’ll never forget. That coupled with the fact that I’d finally internalized RP resulted (finally) in some real changes in her behavior.

    @Sentient is exactly right… “Yes it finally worked when you went all in on Jeremy… That is the trigger, not the other girls.” But it took 5 long years of studying, reading, applying what I learned, making mistakes, backsliding, etc. The shit doesn’t change overnight. Going “all in” is a long process… The realization that it’s not that difficult to charm the panties off “other girls” with a bit of applied game is the reward. At least in my case, it’s so internalized that the wife finally “gets it.”

  66. @ Forge

    Mrs. Eh is a ginger addict, grows it. Made vanilla before with vodka and vanilla beans, but this…oooohhh. Cut-and-paste-and-send. Done and done. The irony is thick…she tipsy on TRM cocktails. Heh.

    I chortle about this shit occasionally. Whom I to tell? I’ll die with this and be o.k.

  67. “He will act like a fucking prick, offend all of her closest friends, insult her father to his face, ignore her sensibilities and the most minor of requests, make zero investment in her well-being, and still enjoy the maximum of her sexual generosity on their first date.”

    As I have no plans for this weekend, that sounds like fun. Thanks constrained locus!

  68. “This was actually really well done, Tomassi.”

    How the hell did that just happen?

    And what’s with the “actually”? You could have left that adverb off.

    Great Job on your writing Rollo! It is exceptional.

    Separately, I have to say that the comments have been exceptional. I’ve been busy and got the freshest bit of air ever out chainsawing at my farm, so I haven’t had time to bloviate.

    Let’s just just say, I’m a big fan of Positive Reconstruction and raising the children well (a lot of that comes from Dr. Laura Schlessinger, bless her heart). Firstly, it is imperative that you raise your children well for us F. Roger Devlin type old school community adherents (Make community great again types). Second, it is a mark of a man in full to have good children. Thirdly, if you don’t think your wife on the brink will ever admire and respect you, let alone have desire to fuck you, then she certainly won’t admire you or respect you if your kids turn out shitty when it is time to let them go out of the home. A father investing and having raised good children is DHV (even if for no one else but himself. Who wants shitty children?).

    You still have to respect the background of Briffault’s Law, yet have enough competent Mastery of being a husband and father, and take back your wife because she desires you via red pill awareness and game. (But better to have just been competent and masterful and aware to begin with.)

    So yeah, sticking with a situation for the children in certain circumstances is actually admirable in a societal meritocracy, I’m fully invested and having the time of my life). I’m not advocating for a guy to do this above all else, (and I don’t have the problem/dilemma to deal with. I’m just saying, it is a thing to consider another ten years down the road when you reflect on your own personal value and the development of your children.

  69. I have only grown up knowing strength. I am white, blue eyed and robust. I’m a scorpio and wouldn’t consider myself alpha (in the purple sense) in any way. In fact, it’s when I become too aggressive in a blue pill way that has led me to a lot of smacks across the ego. I’m a blue collar, white working minded man who has a dominant mother and severely depressed dad that has made me so leather. Ur blog has been the ben gay for my sore joints for the last 3 years but now I’m 27 and I really find women to be like dogs. Is a ten ever going to be ‘happy’? All great leaders understand glory is worth more than a perpetual glory hole. Thanks Rollo!


  70. They all did everything right. Some were the products of the free love generation or the hedonistic 70s, but overall these guys were caught in the perfect storm of still clinging to the old books Beta-provisioning social contract and the expectation of 3rd wave feminists that they be ‘evolved males’. More than a few were attending these men’s groups at the behest of their empowered wives in the hopes that they’d learn to get in touch with their feminine sides or at least find some better way to meet their “needs”. I could see my father as one of these men.

    Papa Tomassi was a very confused man with regard to women as it was, but to be caught on the cusp of an era when feminine social primacy coming into its own and still being part of the ‘do everything right’ social contract and the belief system that was doomed to fail in the decades to come, I can understand a lot of that confusion.

    Yes, they effectively got whipsawed by being caught in the middle of the greatest socio-sexual revolution in millennia. It’s to be expected that it took men a generation or more to adapt.

    The age-old problem for women, especially in the more successful H-G groups, and particularly after the rise of agriculture, based on success coming from greater male cooperation, which in turn required greater sexual equity than a winner-take-all system, was their sexuality being put in chains due to being economically dependent on a specific man — father, uncle, brother, husband. This was due to a combination of sexual consequences (avoiding pregnancy was more difficult, abortion was dangerous, abandoning kids came with social risks, etc.) as well as economic realities whereby most women did “work”, the more valued work often required strength they lacked.

    This situation more or less persisted until the industrial revolution, when women slowly started to be able to catch up economically — not very quickly, but the transition from strength to other things was beginning, and it set in place the course of contemporary feminism. The underlying *reason* for feminism, however, is much older — it’s basically that women chafe when they are economically forced to give their sexuality to unworthy men simply because they are economically dependent. Women chafed under this for generations and generations. Hypergamy was never completely eliminated (there was always adultery, sneaky fuckers, cuckolds, mistresses and so on), but it was greatly suppressed by this system, which was a kind of rough (one girl for most, not all, guys) equality among *men* in terms of sexual access on the baseline.

    When we get to the period you’re discussing here, the solution finally emerged for women for reasons both technical and economic. At more or less roughly the same time the economy was transitioning from an industrial/muscle economy to a services/brain economy (one where women could compete much more effectively with men) AND very reliable, cheap contraception and abortion were becoming widely available. These two fed on each other and reinforced each other and, together, provided the opening for hypergamy to break free of its chains for the first time in millennia, and led to the current SMP we see today. Women were handed the solution to the age-old problem of men largely tying up hypergamy (at least compared to today) — by means of economic progress and technology provided by men, of course.

    You can’t really *blame* women for this, guys. We owned their sexual strategy, in historical terms, for millennia, and they didn’t like it. We rigged the system to ensure that most (not all, but most guys who survived) guys got access to a woman, which works for most hapless guys, but sucks for naturally hypergamous women. They chafed under this system for millennia. When they finally found a way out, they pounced on it — totally understandable. Men have struggled to adapt because the old system was a subsidy for bog standard average men — something which no hypergamous woman wants. The new system is much harder on us, because it is based around the female sexual imperative of hypergamy — the pendulum has swung. Harder, because you can’t be an average guy, average is over. You must be superior. So be superior, and stop complaining.

    Yes, it is hard to adapt, but when you look at the big picture, you can see why the female backlash happened, and it’s silly to hate women for it — why would anyone want to be chained to a man who is unattractive (and most men always will be unattractive to most women) just because you are dependent on him? Be the guy who is attractive, win, and don’t hate women for wanting to be with attractive men, or feeling like they settled when they married you (because ther probably did).

  71. I think one reason MMSL was doomed was because the premise became about including a wife in the reconstruction process. It was disingenuous because it never occurred to Kay that he was inviting the observer effect into that process.

    It was doomed when he brought the wives into the mix, but you also have to consider that he did the same to himself with his own wife. I think he’s beginning to see the consequences of that. What happens when his consults dry up and all the positivity that that money brought to his marriage ebbs?

  72. Time to bloviate:

    Gosh, reading all these stories, I’m thanking my lucky stars for what I had to do to undergo my reconstruction. I really had more substrate to work with. I don’t know if I can derive any actionable positivity about the process for others to be hopeful. But I’ll try.

    I sure do get tired reading all about having been blue pill. Because I was never (A)verage, (F)rustrated, or a (C)hump. My father worked from a First Set of Books and it worked out well for him. He was never less than in a dependent relationship with my mother. He gave his stuff and she gave hers. Both were fully capable of great stuff, but their old school (DOB. 1931 and 1933) worked out great for them and the relationship never was anything less that fullfilling for them. Both had supreme Emotional Independence. They pretty much evolved from a Dependence relationship to a 50/50 relationship (incorporating independence) when we hit high school (4 boys each two years apart). I don’t know waves of feminism, but my mom was something like a 2nd Gen, and worked as a nurse, but kept her “feelings” about it suppressed and covert.
    I developed emotional independence in great schools with great teachers, and great organization. Lots of competitive sports in high school. No helicoptering at all from the parents. Great mentoring from teachers and coaches. I went to Europe @16 with an organized group from high school, but it was independence personified. And a good dose of emotional independence to boot.

    What Sentient mentioned to Jeremy: “Yes it finally worked when you went all in on Jeremy… “ is a huge Key to all this Red Pill stuff. After college, I went all in on me and never looked back. (Also, when I engaged in the Red Pill reconstruction, I also did this. As a reminder, I never did the Blue Pill Thing. But I was Betatized. I just had better personal and social instincts to not accept Blue Pill conventions. )

    The big tipping point in all of this is Mastery and the Four Quadrants of it. It was also a driving force (and Acceleration in Talent–Daniel Coyle wise) fueled by desire. Once you have Mastery in a field (profession, LTR Game, living your life on your terms in a LTR, parenthood, social skills) you rarely digress unless catastrophe hits. Catastrophe is a relative risk, not an absolute risk. It can be mitigated by attention to detail and mindfulness in proceeding with adventure. Just because things suck, doesn’t mean you can’t prevail and come out on the other side of competence and release from constraint–the goal line.

    @Looking for Zion
    Again, the question comes to: Is it worth the effort?
    Where I find myself now is that I have this red pill awareness, I see the code in the Matrix, but life at home is a constant struggle for frame. Amused mastery, being aloof, agree and amplify…. I do it all (imperfectly, I’ll admit). I’m on TRM, TRPreddit, Chateau, Illimitable Men, Masculine Development, RSD, ROK, etc… But it’s a lot of energy spent for little heat generated. The truth is that starting with a clean slate would be sooooo much easier than this slog.

    Where you find yourself now is merely in an incompetent stage. Move towards a competent stage. Red pill is not all about being Alpha, it is about being more Alpha.

    You didn’t mention Married Red Pill Reddit and you conspicuously mentioned ROK and RSD. What this brings to mind it learning, but not applying. Buffering by reading and not getting out in the field (by which I mean your relationship with your wife and child) and applying Red Pill Improvement. The MRP sidebar is fucking Gold. The process works.

    MRP Reddit is guys telling guys, in a masculine fashion, what they should do. Without babying you. It is what your uncles and grandfather should have told you. It is about you advancing your independent self. It is about doing the work, not just reading about it. It is about being more Masterful. And it is achievable.

    The difference is advancing your cause. You working on you independent of your wife to make you the best imitation of yourself. Someone your wife wants to fuck cause she wants to fuck you. It is a process and the process of Reconstruction works.

    Sure you are saddled by Blue Pill precedents, but you can overcome that by having desire to overcome that and developing Mastery. I still see most of the problems in this thread overcome by going through the motions of developing Mastery and Talent. Getting through the four squares of Unconscious Incompetence< Conscious Incompetence<Conscious Competence<Unconscious Competence.

    It is all out there, make it your mission to change yourself in order to be an independent man. Advance the ball, become more Alpha, less Blue Pill, more emotionally independent.
    Almost impossible is not impossible. Relative risk is not absolute risk.

    Marriage with kids is a huge blue pill shoved up the man’s ass. Extremely rare is the man who can stay red pill alpha in that – and he has to go into it being that way, not reforming later.

    You are stuck there now. Why not make the best of it? Take the blue pill out of your ass and stop acting as if the bitter taste of the red pill is a problem. What are your alternatives? To compromise your purpose, mission and ideals. (That would be inimical to red pill ideals.)

    Marriage is not intrinsically blue pill. It is your own damn fault for being blue pill and punching above your weight. I’m here to tell you that you can do something about it, and make a difference. Keep one foot in front of the other and keep moving, be invested in this stuff like your life depends on it (because your emotional health does depend on it). And keep the faith. Get to that higher square in learned Game competence. You can do it. It is frustrating. It’s hard. But it is doable and it is worth it. Start turning your adventure into a Game, for fun and profit. You’ve read enough, get off your ass an practice what you have read about. Ignore your wife. It’s you that matters more than her. Don’t try to merely pass shit tests, use them to your advantage.

    Life sucks until you have real power, mastery and emotional independence. Be in the moment get out into nature and enjoy how beautiful everything actually is. What is your alternative?

    Ok, my dopamine surge is wearing off, so I’ll conclude here……

  73. @ Looking For Zion

    Some food for thought.

    The past is the past, and there’s no Way Back machine or Delorean that a guy can hop in to correct past failings. Recognize and learn from the past and then relegate it to the dust bin.

    Waste zero time in wallow.

    As long as you are fairly healthy and able and willing, there is no way that the best years can be behind you. As a man ages and gains knowledge and understanding and wisdom, life is more beautiful as you move forward.

    How is this so?

    Mindset. Always mind your inner thoughts and dialogue. What script is running iin your head? If that script iis unsatisfactory and depressing, give yourself permission to do a rewrite. Remember, it’s not ” what could have been “, it’s ” what can be now “.

    Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Change what can be changed and fuck the rest.

    I had to learn to internalise these things. It should be included in the ” Coming to Terms with The Red Pill ” portion of ingesting RP.

    Everything iin life provides something for us. Some positive, some negative. Yin and Yang. It’s our perception of the negative that is fully under our control.

  74. I agree with Blaximus.

    I would count myself as a voracious reader of books. Ever since I consumed all of the Hardy Boys and Tom Swift books in the early 70’s. And Tolstoy and Doestoyevski in the 80’s. And lately I think I consume a short book a week or a long book every two weeks. Reading books is highly advised in red pill and PUA masculine self improvement.

    This last year, manosphere books that dealt with eastern religions crept into my reading list and what Blaximus knows by intuition is Gold. Deal with what is and not what things out to be.

    Even if you don’t have time to read, watch some RSD Julien Himself book reviews, Tyler’s reading list, the suggestion of KFG: Alan Watts, The Book: On The Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig (highly influence by Eastern Thought). A lot of this stuff makes you just revel in the actual being, rather than being influenced by Western bullshit (Advertising, Mainstream Media, Technology distancing interactions with humans, rather than bringing you into direct contact with humans, propaganda, Feminine Imperative Social Conventions, Etc.)

    Your wife, Zion, is fully invested in Bullshit Western Culture and you should distance yourself from it’s influences. She will keep frame in that bullshit and you will swim against her tide of Frame. But here is where you develop your own Frame. Initially your Frame is not power at all, until it gains Momentum. And then, it doesn’t matter what her Frame is, your Frame is your purpose and your pursuit and she is welcome to come along. Or not. If she comes along and you want her to, Good. If you find the juice is not worth the squeeze, you will be happy in your own competent, powerful Frame that you built all for yourself. And it won’t even matter what others think at that point. You will, if you work at it, be happily a man in full. Do it.

    Don’t worry about her consuming BS. You divorce yourself from it and be a man that is going his own way. Who has red pill principles and your own purpose and mission that she is welcome to come along with. Do not compromise yourself and lean into her if she does not have respect for you if you indeed deserve respect (enough value that other girls would be glad to fuck you for).
    Post up something in Field Reports if you are having Relationship Game sticking points. I dare you. Because you owe yourself self respect.

    If you get out of your little closet, you will find that life is beautiful. And your wife doesn’t suck. Your wife is AWALT, though, use that to diminish your ONE-itis for her. This is about you and your independent mindset. You as your mental point of origin. You as emotionally independent. You as a guiding parent to your daughter. You as a man, that is so good that your wife actually wants to fuck, because why wouldn’t any woman want to do that? Make yourself so good that any woman would want to fuck you, because you are good, really good. When you get good, the only way your wife should find out about that is covertly. Masterful guys do it Acta, Non Verba.

  75. Redux from Reconstruction I:

    https://therationalmale.com/2017/01/10/the-reconstruction-i/#comment-185861

    Scribbler: “I wonder what Red Pill men actually demonstrate by staying in bad marriages?

    Sentient: “I question if this is even possible, truly Red Pill guy will not be in a bad marriage… either the W will respond to his increasing RP behavior and change or he will leave…”

    The fork in the road awaits your decision. I submit that you should only decide once you have been knighted with Mastery and Competence. Or you admit that you can’t actually get There.

  76. Gents and Jeremy

    It does not have to be a long process. It can happen like the flick if a switch… ” I am not going to be the person i am expected to ne anymore”

    flip the switch.

  77. “For a man awakened to his condition while married, his state is a never ending reminder of what his Blue Pill indenturement has made of him. Like the guy in Farrell’s men’s group, the Blue Pill husband has spent most of his life trying to become someone he may or may not like, but that process of becoming was prompted by his Blue Pill conditioned existence. Once that man becomes Red Pill aware he’s now faced with two problems – how will he remake himself and how will his wife accept that remaking?”

    Reinventing the self

  78. Two anecdotes to share about adopting the RedPill and not going back.

    Pre RP after separating from my wife for year I said let’s fix this and go to counselling. Her response? Divorce and immediately remarried a richer older dude. Ok. Now I get it.

    Last week plate had a meltdown over some relatively small issue. I told her I wouldn’t use the poster she created for me because I liked mine better and it was already familiar with my customers.

    Lots of hamster rationalisation about how awful, selfish,mysoginistic and otherwise worthless I was. Red Pill me laughed it off and nexted her. I didn’t respond and saw it as projection and frustration at a lack of control.

    So yah the Red Pill offers a clear path and way of viewing the world that removes any wishful thinking.

  79. how will he remake himself and how will his wife accept that remaking?

    A friend of mine’s wife blew up their marriage a couple of years back. He joined my band mostly in an attempt by me to help him break out of his funk and realize his life could be much more if he just opened himself to the possibilities.It took him a while to get used to the mind-shift that he was the prize that women would compete for after a performance.

    Fast forward two years. His ex-wife keeps trying to get him to “give it another try” – but he’s not interested. One of the more humorous situations was when she showed up at one of our performances with their two daughters. She made a fool of herself – he had to have their daughters take her home.

    But the only way for any man to “remake” himself is to completely break with the past, and become something else independent of others’ past ideas of who and what he is. He outgrew what he was and not it doesn’t interest him any longer. He told his daughters he will always be there if they need him, but it’s now time for him to live for himself, and their mother and they need to follow the path they chose those two years ago. Now I don’t know all that went into that, as I only saw him during the season of our performances, but he took an interest in getting in shape and doing all of the things he used to do before he back a “husband and father”

    As a somewhat interested observer it’s been interesting to see him open up to become the man he was when we formed a band long ago. The real problem with a man “remaking himself” is that the man he becomes may end up with no spot for those that he was once close to. The is the problem, many man try to remake themselves to keep what they once had, and that is impossible – you cannot be something new, and hold on to what is old. You just have to accept that a time is past, and look to the future.

  80. @Sentient

    “It does not have to be a long process. It can happen like the flick if a switch… “

    You and HABD came on strong in early 2016 on this blog and I Thank You Guys. It is a thought process that matters. You guys lit a spark under some of us. That spark was the Nike advertising Motto: Just Fucking Do It. I got the same from Scribbler when he suggested me spinning plates with young hotties in a threesome with my wife. I ruminated that, while doing habitat work on my farm one day and guess what? I took that shit to heart. And it made all the difference in the world. Just an offhand comment by another guy.

    It is inspiring to be pushed by guys to really employ and act this red pill game. And I did it. I have never had problems being a self-starter and going out there and doing stuff. On a personal service note, in 2016 after following the red pill script, I got agency. I have the opposite of most of the stories here, my wife is eminently valuable and kept up her part of the red pill bargain. (Face/figure/ageing, over 2 1/2 decades, she is still worth the fuck.)

    (I eliminated all traces of my 2015 one-itits, became truly emotionally independent–H/T to GW- and Gamed on). She actually came about as expected per red pill and game, when I came out of my Betatization Stage. I as described a year ago have no motive or opportunity to go outside of her (not opportunity, merely because she is better than any other woman I would want). I simply didn’t need extra pussy. That made it a harder row for me to hoe, but no harm done. I’m still me, just desirable because I wanted to be.

    And she is putting out for me. With desire. Once again, thank you Rollo, Sentient and HABD. You guys are great. And so am I with my abilities–which include strength, courage, mastery, honor among men, adaptability and desire to improve with red pill and game. Game is fun as hell. And now after so much emersion, it is a part of me. Nearly unconscious.

    None of LTR matters without a great LTR woman (she has actual value after fucking) and resources (some of which are fortitude, others of which are monetary. Monetary wise enough monetary resources make providership for her and your kids a non entity in Game. It’s an afterthought. That being a covert message to any of you readers at home. I couldn’t care less about providing. Providing well is a DHV and an afterthought for me. I love that I can. And do.)

    Game Mastery really does shorten the process. In 2015 I was circle jerking the process and so were other commenters on TRM. Sentient and HABD shook some of us out of that. And I thank you again. (no problem though, I had years of reversing the Beta, due to years of being ignorant. And you guys provided an igniter/accelerant to the whole process .)

    @Agent P and GW and Jeremy

    Great comments upstream. You guys are great.

    GW: emotional independence is a great Key to The Process. Also like Full Immersion .

  81. In support of what Blax & SJF said… for the new guys-

    Get through/past/over that OULDA phase- that “I’m 30-40+ and have been lied to; everything is over for me now; I woulda behaved differently; what a waste my life is; I shoulda known; I coulda been a contender…” phase.

    I was deep in mine for months. Divorce with kids… It’s depressing, offers nothing of added value (mine was a post-mortem of everything I ever did wrong), you beat yourself up for any & all past mistakes, then punish yourself for not having not having seen it earlier (i.e. not only did I fuck-up by breaking XYZ, but ice that cake with the weight of responsibility that I OULDA known not only how to not fuck it up, but to make it perfect). Can’t imagine why many guys never make it out of the barrel.

    So my 2cents: actually, intentionally, focus on it. Own it, get logical about it, work through it… Whatever your recipe for success is- use it on the OULDA phase. Don’t attach any of the OULDAs to yourself or your measure of your own worth. And always keep a vigilant ear out … They sneak back in & fuck with you.

    As you push through OULDA, focus on what you can actually change*. You. All the best rewards are there. Don’t expect anyone to give you a cookie- bake em yourself. Build a better you a incrementally every day & don’t beat yourself up if you slip.

    (*potentially include what you can influence here too- but maybe that’s post-graduate level… I’m still working on this right here…)

  82. “Last week plate had a meltdown over some relatively small issue. I told her I wouldn’t use the poster she created for me because I liked mine better and it was already familiar with my customers.”

    How the hell did that happen?

    Red pill way for dismissal:

  83. @Rollo

    “Becoming Red Pill aware forces husbands into a position of having to judge whether their marriages are even worth the considerable effort of trying to improve.”

    No! Not worth it. Such a marriage isn’t worth the shit it’s made of.

    No marriage founded on such self subjugation, cowardice and stupidity is worth saving. Marriages based on blue pill ideals and betaism are marriages based on the man being a coward and the woman being the supreme dominator of the relationship. It is doubtful that a man who allows or chooses such enslavement is even capable of really “becoming” “red pill”. His constitution, wether innate or conditioned, is servile. Transforming into a self respecting alpha isn’t likely. If any man is able to make such a transformation, the process is time consuming and arduous, requiring diligence and discernment. Any man who endeavors to make such a change in himself, must disregard the “relationship”, the marriage and the wife. He cannot concern himself with those in the slightest. He must move forward independent of any consideration for them other than knowing they must be objectively managed to optimize HIS life and or minimize their damage. They are frustrations and road blocks to his progress. The wife of a beta, married a beta. She knew what she was getting when she selected it. It is unlikely she will remain “committed” when the beta is no more. She can, more likely than not, continue her preferred and established strategy by finding another beta to satisfy that need. In a real sense, marriage is generally for betas anyway. It is a bullshit sham contract contrived to impose “commitment” and a code of “ethics” upon men to enslave them. It is a shameful trap to fall in for most men. The marriage contract and all the social conventions sourrounding it are unnatural as hell and antithetic to human instinct. They are antithetic to both male and female natural sexuality. Obviously it stifles male sexuality as it legally handcuffs the man to one woman while his natural inclination is to fuck as many hotties as his constitution will attrack. It is also antithetical to woman’s sexuality as it locks her down to a man who may be weaker and less desirable than his competition. Does this make her happy? Will beta “civility” compensate for her lack of satisfaction? FUCK NO! Only weaklings, cowards, or the brainwashed become slaves and those who remain slaves after learning the truth are the most despicable cowards of all. They are the lowest of men.

  84. @ Novaseeker,

    “feeling like they settled when they married you (because they probably did).”

    Horseshit.

  85. Brace yourselves! The AMOGs are coming! Emoji AMOGs, no less.

    He was dead on with a quote that could be inserted seamlessly into any Mark Driscoll rant?

  86. @NBTM – “The wife of a beta, married a beta. She knew what she was getting when she selected it. It is unlikely she will remain “committed” when the beta is no more. She can, more likely than not, continue her preferred and established strategy by finding another beta to satisfy that need.”

    You’re forgetting a key leveller… Rollo’s SMV chart. Our SMV generally goes up as we age. We become wealthier, wiser, more distinguished and with some RP work, we have the potential to become devastating.

    The female SMV plummets rapidly. It’s a hell of a risk to trade out an up and coming RP’er for a branch swing to another beta. They have to contend with the cat-lady factor, which has to be hugely stressful regardless of how prevalent the “you go grrllll” nonsense is. Deep down, they know it’s nonsense. I went on FB last night for the first time in a couple years just to look at the profiles of the really hot girls I knew from H.S. and college. Time has been brutally unkind to almost all of them.

  87. Kaminsky
    He was dead on with a quote that could be inserted seamlessly into any Mark Driscoll rant?

    LOL! No, no way. Driscoll is a Blue Pill pedestalizing AMOG with a tendency to bully other men if he can get away with it – and he had his own security detail in Seattle to ensure that.
    Some of his recent sermons suggest he’s learned maybe a shred of humilty the hard way.
    But he’s still Blue Pill as ever. His stuff won’t fly here.

    Novaseeker? Totally different. And as Blaximus said, dead on. There’s a tie to what Margaret Mead made up about Samoa, but maybe I should leave that to kfg.

    With regard to Nova, there is an irony: teh girlz have won what their hypergamy wants, and they don’t like it so much. (wow, some surprise, eh?)

    AF-BB for a lot of girls leads to frustration – the One That Got Away in their 20’s is still gone, the 30-something blue pill beta is a Nice Guy but still frustrating because he doesn’t Just Get It. I’m watching, and sometimes talking, with women from the 20’s to the 60’s and I can see this. There are some exceptions. The lower N girls for a start.

  88. He was dead on with a quote that could be inserted seamlessly into any Mark Driscoll rant?

    Context. Point of view.

    Kaminsky – RP aware – rejects notion woman “settled”. Good RP attitude.

    Novaseeker – referring to men still caught up in the matrix – woman “settled” for BP man. A common occurrence as BP men are lined up waiting to serve women whose epiphany stage has arrived. Most damning proof – BP man (like a Driscoll) often publicly agrees that his wife has settled, and how lucky he is to have a strong, smart woman like her, etc. ad nauseam.

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