Rites of Passage

aboriginal-passage

In the past I’ve discussed the hesitancy of young men to refer to themselves as ‘men’ or to really even embrace what might be considered a ‘conventional’ idea of masculinity. You’ve probably read me using that word before. I use the word conventional because I feel it conveys a better understanding of a naturalized expression of masculinity in a way that men evolved into. Occasionally I have a reader ask me why I don’t use the term ‘traditional’ with respect to masculinity, but I’m not sure they really mean the same thing.

It’s easy to think of masculinity in terms of tradition, but whose tradition are we really referring to? ‘Traditional Masculinity’ as a term has assumed a derogatory meaning in a feminine-primary social order. It’s become one of those catch-terms that we’re all supposed to understand as being characteristic of backward mindsets. It’s part of the social convention that seeks to ridicule, shame and confuse boys who later become men about what masculinity ought to mean to them. So, it’s for this reason I use the word ‘conventional’. It conveys the idea that masculinity in a binary sense has evolved aspects that are inherent and unique to men. So while certain cultures may have had different traditions and traditional roles for men, there is a unifying conventionality of masculinity that relates to all men and maleness in general.

Feminine-centrism doesn’t like this idea. It doesn’t like the idea that masculine characteristics or behaviors are the sole propriety of men. The reflex then is to paint any conventionally masculine attribute, way of thinking, aggression, passion or aspiration as either representative of ‘toxic’ harmful or anti-social, or, depending on its usefulness in securing power, it’s cast as something “not necessarily masculine” since some women can lay claim to that trait.

In several prior posts I’ve outlined how boys are taught from a very early age to gender-loathe their maleness. It’s part of Blue Pill conditioning, but more so, I think it’s important for Blue Pill or unplugging adult men to understand the mechanics and reasoning behind why it’s in the Feminine Imperative’s interests to keep conventional masculinity something ambiguous, arbitrary or something men ought to be able to fluidly define for themselves. That last part there is important, because what most men think is their own self-definition of masculinity is always founded in what the Feminine Imperative has conditioned him to believe is correct.

Latent Purposes

In a social order that’s ostensibly founded upon a baseline equalism (in principle) among men and women we have to look at why it might be necessary for boys to be taught that ‘traditional’ masculinity is toxic. The easy answer is a want for control, but not so much in the terms of convincing boys to become men who will loathe their maleness. Remember, there’s a lot of conventional masculinity that is conveniently useful to further the interests of women and Hypergamy – but the conditioning becomes one of selectively classifying the useful aspects as ‘healthy’ and the non-useful ones as ‘toxic’.

The most important thing to consider here is that, for future men, equalism’s purpose in their upbringing is to prevent them from ever internalizing the idea that they should be their own mental point of origin. This I think is one of the fundamental issues most Blue Pill men struggle with in their own unplugging.

One of the old books, traditional, understandings is that men, by virtue of being male, can expect a degree of authority in their lives and in their families. A man may not be the boss at work, but the traditional understanding was that he could expect to be the head of household in his own home. Feminine primacy, under the auspices of equalism, has effectively conditioned this idea out of men over the course of generations. If men and women are blank-slate functional equals, ideally, there will never be a default authority in an intersexual relationship.

From a conventional, evolutionary perspective we know this baseline equalism is not just false, but we also understand that it serves as a control over the masculine nature men are born into. Men and women are different; cognitively, neurologically, biologically and psychologically, but our socialized presumptions with regard to how boys are raised to be men deliberately conditions them to believe we are the same – or at least functionally so.

The Crime of Being Male

There’s been some pushback to this in our Red Pill awakening, and not all of it is the result of the manosphere. As Hypergamy becomes more openly embraced in a larger social respect, more men are made aware of their deliberate conditioning to accommodate it. What they choose to do with that awareness is up to them, but the response from the Feminine Imperative to this awareness is to criminalize or make toxic the embrace of conventional masculinity on the part of men. It becomes a hate-crime to express any conventionally male attribute.

This is a potential danger for Blue Pill men in that the expressions of maleness that they display are on one hand desired by women, but also a risk to their reputation or livelihood if that expression is offensive to women. Red Pill aware men may have the advantage of knowing women’s nature well enough to mitigate the risks, but Blue Pill men will be stuck in a paradigm that puts them at risk for wanting to be men.

Again, equalist Blue Pill conditioning’s purpose is to prevent men from assuming themselves as their mental point of origin, but once a man’s disabused himself of putting the feminine as his primary internal concern there must be an opposite, contingent, reaction on the part of the Feminine Imperative to put him back into compliance. Thus, we see the criminalization of maleness.

Pedestals

For some time it’s been a manosphere staple to tell guys to take the girl off the pedestal if he wants to be successful with women. We call it pedestalization, but one reason that dynamic, to put a woman on a higher order than oneself, is so pervasive in men is due exactly to this “equalist” conditioning. The internalization is one of making that girl, that woman, the centerpiece of a man’s headspace. This becomes who he is and it’s the result of a childhood that taught him he must place the concerns of girls above his own on many different psychological levels.

Once that guy becomes Red Pill aware, no matter who does his unplugging, not only does he remove girls from the pedestal personally, but also on a larger sociological scope. And this scope is what the Feminine Imperative must pushback against.

Blue Pill conditioning teaches boys/men to cast doubt on their own masculinity. What constitutes masculinity? Is it a mask or a performance they put on? Is it something to be proud of or some problem to keep in check? Should boys/men feel insecure or secure about it? These are the consistent ambiguities the Feminine Imperative wants to invest into the next generations of men because it keeps women on the pedestal. Only women possess the solution to their problem of maleness.

But the Blue Pill also conditions boys/men to never presume to consider themselves as a “man”. The joke is that men are never really men, but rather they become ‘bigger boys’. This is a social convention that attempts to keep men in a juvenilized state and thus ensuring women are the only ‘adults’ to make the judgement call. This ridicule has the purpose of denying men their status of ‘manhood’. If men are perpetual boys, they can never assume the default ‘headship’ of being men. It is a control for authority.

This is another reason men are conditioned to keep women on the pedestal; only women can confirm ‘manhood’ from a superior (mental) position in that man’s mind. When a woman is at the top of a man’s mental point of origin – and not even a specific woman, but womankind – she decides his status of being a man. So it follows that men ought to internalize the doubt of understanding manhood or conventional masculinity.

So, the struggle men have in coming to a Red Pill awareness is one of removing women from this pedestal, but also one of giving oneself permission to be a man. This may seem kind of simplistic, but to a guy who’s been conditioned to put women before himself in his own internal, mental, conversations it’s a very tough challenge. Blue Pill conditioning invests a doubt into boys and then men. They are conditioned to self-regulate on many levels, but to generally put their own concerns beneath those of others and largely the feminine. They are taught to self-sublimate by never giving themselves permission to be “men” in a conventional sense.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9

Never Self-Deprecate under any circumstance. This is a Kiss of Death that you self-initiate and is the antithesis of the Prize Mentality. Once you’ve accepted yourself and presented yourself as a “complete douche” there’s no going back to confidence with a woman. Never appeal to a woman’s sympathies. Her sympathies are given by her own volition, never when they are begged for – women despise the obligation of sympathy. Nothing kills arousal like pity. Even if you don’t seriously consider yourself pathetic, it never serves your best interest to paint yourself as pathetic. Self-Depreciation is a misguided tool for the AFC, and not something that would even occur to an Alpha.

One important reason I made this an Iron Rule was because it’s almost a default response of men to presume their own ridiculousness. The reflexive response is of course to not take yourself so seriously and have an ability to laugh at yourself when it’s merited. That’s all fine and well, a necessity for a healthy sense of self, but few men realize their ease with self-deprecation is a result of their conditioning to find themselves ridiculous as men. “Men” are ridiculous.

It’s very easy for Red Pill aware men to lose sight of what the Blue Pill conditions men for and how this conditioning has evolved over the course of generations. The latent purpose remains the same (preventing men from adopting their own mental point of origin), but the methods and social mores change fluidly with what the Feminine Imperative finds most efficient for the time. For the past 20 years there’s been a concentrated effort to remove men from deciding their own manhood for themselves.

Rites of Passage

From Remove the Man:

Guys vs. Men

I was participating in a conversation just recently with a young woman of 26 and a young man of 18. The conversation itself wasn’t important, but at one point the young man referred to himself as a ‘Man’. He said something to the effect of, “Well I’m a man, and men do,..” At the word ‘man’ she cut him off with the unconscious snigger that’s resulted from years of feminine ridicule conditioning. Just the mention of a man self-referencing as a “man” is enough to inspire feminine ridicule. It’s laughable for a man to consider himself a man.

This exchange got me to wondering about the turning point at which I began to self-reference as a “Man”. In the face of a constant conditioned ridicule, it’s almost an uncomfortable recognition to distinguish yourself as a Man. It’s too easy to just think of yourself as a ‘guy’ and never be so presumptuous as to insist upon your manhood. In girl-world, to claim to be a Man is to admit to arrogance – it’s to embrace a flawed nature.

It’s important to note here that in embracing your status as a Man, instead of ‘just a guy’, you are passing a meta-shit test. By embracing self-referenced manhood, you are rejecting what a world aligned against you would like you to believe about yourself. You’re endorsing yourself as a Man with self-assurance despite the self-doubt the Feminine Imperative relies upon men believing about themselves, masculinity and the dubious state of manhood as a whole. By flagrantly referring to yourself as a Man you are passing the meta-shit test – you’re overtly stating you’re a Man, but you you’re covertly stating “I Just Get It.”

One of the key elements to unplugging is changing your mind about yourself. This is one of the biggest obstacle to guys coming to accept a Red Pill aware reality. This self-denial of their own ‘manhood’, which becomes a resistance to embracing anything conventionally masculine as being positive, is a foreign thought.

As I mentioned in that post, there used to be a time when boys would go through some rite of passage and be considered a ‘man’ by his family and peers. It’s important for Red Pill men to realize how this passage into a state of manhood has been deliberately confused or shamed out of significance to all but the most traditional of cultures.

Most male rites of passage are painted as cruel and barbaric hazing rituals in a fem-centric society. That’s a popularized and easy connection to make, but what underlies this effort to disqualify manhood as legitimate is a push to force men into compliance with the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primacy.

I would suggest that men coming into a Red Pill awareness need to embrace being a “man”. Red Pill men need a rite of passage of some sort. Sometimes we ask about when a guy finally came into his Red Pill awareness. We compare stories about what we were like when we were still living in a Blue Pill paradigm and then what form of trauma (or not) triggered that Blue Pill disillusionment. We discuss going through the various stages of grief for our past Blue Pill idealism, the nihilism, the anger, the disbelief, then the acceptance and the new enthusiasm of being Red Pill aware and the potential that means.

But there needs to be a rite of passage for passing from that Blue Pill state to a new Red pill awareness and part of this should be a conscious acknowledgement of  giving yourself permission to be a man. This needs to be part of changing your mind about yourself as you become more aware of the agency you really have in a conventionally male respect. You need a point at which you set yourself apart from Blue Pill men and a feminine-primary social order.

Most (Beta) guys have a difficult time embracing the authority and due deference that being a conventional man should convey to him. They are uncomfortable on an ego-personality level with accepting this dominant male role because it goes against everything their feminine-centric upbringing has taught them to internalize.

However, with that authority comes responsibility. I would argue that many a Blue Pill guy is comforted by the lies of equalism because he believes that egalitarianism and the expectations that men and women are functional equals in some way exempts him from his uniquely male burden of performance. On some level of consciousness, even the Beta men who are comforted by equalism still realize that their maleness, their ‘secure’ masculinity, will only ever be merited and judged by his performance. And that performance is firmly grounded in conventionally male tests.

 

633 comments

  1. @AnonandonandonReader

    You’re +100 on “everybody knows” and yes we must be careful there to be sure that what is known is true fer surrre. Medically, everybody used to “know” you got fatal cramps if you swam 1/2 hour after eating; that drugs affect men and women the same way; that drugs affect men and children the same way; that smoking was good for your throat and kept colds away; that coffee gave you cancer; that coffee cures cancer; that eggs kill you; that eggs extend your life, that salt is bad for you, that salt is good for you.

    Etc.

    Indeed the 80% of 80 years olds postulate (pustule?) may be supposition, a fond thing, vainly invented. I mean, three guys told me it was so and how could three guys possibly be wrong? But it looks like the literature is good in chronicling that some mutations appear in the prostate as men reach advanced age, but they are minuscule and slow-growing. So are the mutations. (FX: rimshot)

    Just remember: everything gives you cancer

    .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsQyru5ACmA

  2. A cow is basically a bacterias way of collecting food in mass quantities.

    TRM is basically LP’s way of collecting pithy quotes in mass quantities.

  3. @Andy, everything you’ve just written is pulled straight from the Owen Cook motivational speaking tour. What sad is that you believe your opinions and evaluations are your own original thoughts – they’re not.

    If this blog were all about my ego do you think you’d be posting here now? Do you think I’d allow your inane meme gifs? No one’s banned here, anyone can post whenever they’d like (except for spam bots), but we have a disagreement of opinion, observations and interpretation and it’s “your ego is YUUUGE!”.

    Watch this for a minute. What you’re witnessing is a guy with a convenient Blue Pill idealism who’s recently gotten together with a new girlfriend and wants to encourage guys that “girls are really fantastic”. Why do you suppose that is?

    Owen’s positive thinking mantra is stolen directly from guys like Tony Robbins and all the other PoPT gurus who would rather you believe that your mindset supersedes objective reality. This is ironic since up until this video it was all about process superseding mindset, but there you have it.

    Watch this video, listen to the terminology he uses. “Quality women”, life is wonderful, the delivery is that of a practiced entertainer. If this were coming from any other speaker you’d call him Blue Pill and deluded. My guess is he’s following through with the same script that Roosh, Tucker Max and Athol Kay had to follow. He’s 37 now, has 2 kids, new “awesome” girlfriend he’ll likely marry, and now the narrative and profit model must shift from PUA/RSD to a positive mindset and selling guys on exactly the idealism I warned against in Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite almost 5 years ago.

    What’s ironic is that we gave Mark Minter such a rash of shit for doing exactly what Owen and Roosh and Tucker all are doing themselves; they followed the script.

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/07/29/the-script/

    So, the conveniently evolving narrative at RSD is shifting away from PUA – not entirely or by any means wholesale – and towards the Power of Positive thinking profit model. I predict this will be RSD main focus in the next 3 years.

    This then brings us to why RSD Luke’s dismissal of TRM as ‘truthful anger’ is so contrived. I have always connected dots and put everything on the table to sort out. RP awareness is as objective a truth as myself and the millions of men who contribute to it can make of it. And that truth is often ugly, morose, painful and unflattering to both women and men whose entire existence has been invested in the Pollyanna hopes the Blue Pill has conditioned them for. The new Power of Positive Thinking business model of RSD cannot afford to have Blue Pill men lose hope in finding their perfect Blue Pill ideal ONE ‘quality woman’. This is EXACTLY what I stated in Dream Girls and Children with Dynamite.

    Thus, Luke is obliged to dismiss TRM and the truth it represents in order to follow the now Purple Pill profit shift of RSD. So, yeah, when I think about it in terms of how TRM has helped keep men from swallowing a bullet or putting a noose around their necks because what I write resonates with them enough to change their minds about their Blue Pill conditioning, yeah, I’ll push back against that. Especially when it’s from a disingenuous Purple Pill marketeer profiting from guys’ Blue Pill idealism. The truths that TRP and TRM lay bare for men, as tough as they are, are emancipating from TBP. Those truth are a threat to the new RSD business model and they know this.

    This is exactly why I called Roosh out for his own reinvention at the expense of the guys who look to him for inspiration. You will see Owen go every bit as Purple Pill as Tucker Max or Neil Strauss – hell, Owen’s already glad-handing Neil and his own Matrix reinsertion recently.

    So, Andy, you can call this a hug box or an echo chamber all you want. You’re free to do it here because TRM will always be about unvarnished RP truths without any profit motive and no matter if it makes you anger or sad or hopeful or liberated from the Blue Pill.

  4. @andy

    Good to see you back. main thing is to focus first and foremost on your own development, and don’t worry so much about others.

    I agree with a lot of what you said, especially things being needlessly cliquish.

    My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys. So for people who claim to be looking out for men…they aren’t doing the best job.

  5. A “relationship expert” is an entertainer. The job qualification isn’t to dispense expert advice. It’s to attract an audience — readers for your columns and books, listeners to your radio show, viewers of your TV show.

    Many “experts” are actually entertainers. Consider all the professional political pundits who have a long track record of predicting everything wrong. Even so, they still get book deals and radio and cable TV shows. Because they have fans who’ll tune in, watch them, buy their books.

    Astrologers, UFO seekers, ghost hunters, political pundits, psychologists, relationship experts — all entertainers helping coach potatoes fill their leisure hours.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/are-you-sure-you-arent-unhappy/#comment-223451

  6. “My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys. ”

    Failed OMG here. Yareally/MM is immensely helpful for YSG and failed OMGs at getting tail after not getting any for so many years.

    OMGs are immensely helpful for realizing what I could have been had I swallowed the pill before blowing up the ship, and at what might be some day.

    Rollo is immensely helpful for seeing the man behind the curtain and for laying it out in a way yet unmatched.

    But in the end, you, the reader, are responsible for choosing what sticks and what to discard, according to your own criteria at any given moment. TRM/RP will never be all things to all men.

  7. An interesting read, considering the time when it was written, before the so called sexual revolution, bra burning and the pill.

    Oops! The link didn’t post the first time. Here is the book:

    https://www.amazon.com/The-Fraud-Feminism-Collected-Bellfort-ebook/dp/B00SE2JJU8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RKDDJKTQE6HWA31WDSY

    Reading this, it becomes apparent the FI was making very significant progress as early as the mid 19th century and we are experiencing much the same now as then.

    Pondering over this, I am considering the idea that the birth control pill potentially provides greater advantage to men (those who take advantage of opportunity) because it facilitates the sexual use of women without the consequence of pregnancy. However, women have the option of lying about taking it as they shamelessly lie about anything to serve their advantage.

  8. ” Astrologers, UFO seekers, ghost hunters, political pundits, psychologists, relationship experts — all entertainers helping coach potatoes fill their leisure hours.”

    They forgot my favorite,the weather man.

  9. @ Andy

    So, you’ve recently found the ” Ego Butterknife ” and wish to smear it all over everyone you disagree with, or those that disagree with you. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like…..

    I’m not the tone police. I did and still do object to needlessly talking shit about any man’s wife and children to drive a narrative. I will always be this way because it’s part of who I am. It’s got nothing to do with ego or ego protection. Irl I’d probably do one of two things, ignore the comments or knock the dude spewing them unconscious.

    My choice. My overhand right is YUUUUUGGGEEEE.

    It’s your choice to try and understand different perspectives, but you are sidetracked. What do you call it when a guy is pulled in 3 or 4 different directions? Red Pill/PUA/life questions/confusion?

    But hey, it’s your life and your mind. Time’s a-wasting pal.

    No cliques that I can see, just differing levels of actual life experiences and gained perspective. Emphasis on actual life experiences .

    Do whatever you want in the end.

  10. @Rollo

    “Owen’s positive thinking mantra is stolen directly from guys like Tony Robbins and all the other PoPT gurus who would rather you believe that your mindset supersedes objective reality. ”

    Everything is imitation bby

    “the conveniently evolving narrative at RSD is shifting away from PUA – not entirely or by any means wholesale – and towards the Power of Positive thinking profit model. I predict this will be RSD main focus in the next 3 years.”

    If you actually pay attention in the videos your watching….. Tyler literally states this but says for now someone still has to teach this

    “The new Power of Positive Thinking business model of RSD cannot afford to have Blue Pill men lose hope in finding their perfect Blue Pill ideal ONE ‘quality woman’.”

    RSD has never been a red pill movement. If that’s their belief then maybe a red pill individual who has weight in the manosphere should reach out to them lol. ( instead of bitching about the videos when hes posting them )

    “This then brings us to why RSD Luke’s dismissal of TRM as ‘truthful anger’ is so contrived. I have always connected dots and put everything on the table to sort out. RP awareness is as objective a truth as myself and the millions of men who contribute to it can make of it. ”

    Lol……..He also states multiple times in his videos now ( actually for about 5 months lol ) that hypergamy is everything.

    Yeah but lol no Your’e just mad that your life work was scoffed at as truthful anger , but the funny reality is the only people who can actually make full use of it are PUA’s.

    I mean after all once you accept women for what they are and realize the game you’re playing….and just say shit it is what it is.. then it just is what it is. You play and You get better.

    “So, yeah, when I think about it in terms of how TRM has helped keep men from swallowing a bullet or putting a noose around their necks because what I write resonates with them enough to change their minds about their Blue Pill conditioning, yeah, I’ll push back against that. ”

    More so you help those who survived gun shots understand why they got shot and it resonates with them because they might understand their mistakes. ( unless their blax cause he never messed up his marriage he just quit it)

    But when the guys who wanted to get married posted here and were pointing a gun at their heads ready to shoot no one tried to stop them. Except Ya lol.

    But yeah kudos to you I’ve been reading your stuff for years and it is helpful. Alot more helpful to people living passive lives rather than dynamic though in all honestly .

    “The truths that TRP and TRM lay bare for men, as tough as they are, are emancipating from TBP.”

    You can’t honestly pretend that TRP and TRM are the same.

    “So, Andy, you can call this a hug box or an echo chamber all you want. You’re free to do it here because TRM will always be about unvarnished RP truths without any profit motive and no matter if it makes you anger or sad or hopeful or liberated from the Blue Pill”

    TRM isn’t about unvarnished RP truths

  11. @Hank

    My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys.

    If YaReally is actually gone for good, I would say the blame rests on him more than the OMGs at this point. Rollo delivered on the Field Reports section, and so far it has been pretty much entirely focused on field reports and concrete actionable advice. He hasn’t tried the new section yet, so it’s too early to cry foul on it.

    But even if Rollo had said that he no longer wanted PUA or field reports discussed on the blog, then YaReally could always just start his own. The excuses he’s given as to why he can’t start his own blog are pretty weak.

    “I’m too busy”

    It takes about 10-20 minutes to set up a public blog on blogger.com (not familiar with WordPress so I don’t know what the setup is like). He doesn’t need to spend time building a starter audience, he already has us. He doesn’t need to think of blog topics, he just needs to post “write your field reports here.” When the comments on that page get too unwieldy, he can make his second post: “write your field reports here part 2.”

    I’ve found YaReally extremely helpful to myself. At the same time, this is ultimately Rollo’s blog. The fact that YaReally insists he can only reach guys by piggy-backing off of someone else’s successful blog (first CH, now here) lends credence to Rollo’s suspicion that he is some form of guerrilla marketer. I’ve been suspicious of that myself in the past, though ultimately I don’t care too much either way as I’ve found his stuff personally helpful.

    With all that said, I don’t think he’s”given up” yet. He probably just got particularly busy at work or something and is focusing on that before he checks back in.

  12. Not an FR.
    Coffee break time.

    Two middle aged women, one probably in hter upper 40’s to low 50’s, the other a fatty in her 30’s with dirty blonde hair in need of touching up the dye job, but mascara / eye makeup. As I move around the room, the fatty looks me over even making eye contact. Years ago I would have read her expression as resentful, now it looks sad. She’d probably be a 5 if she dropped 30 pounds. Kept looking over at me until they left; peripheral vision has been a friend for years, but now that I know what to look for it has become an even bigger source of information.

    40-something overweight couple came in, reflexively checked their phone before placing an order, like millennials. Note to self: living on the phone is a bad look.

    Nerdy guy came in, sat at a table, nerdy girl with nail polish and the current haircut (bangs, shoulder length limp hair) came and sat with him. He’s all wrapped in the phone, her body language is slightly toward him. Even nerd girls can get lucky if they aren’t too picky.

    Black man in a suit and tie looking fairly sharp picking up a coffee and sitting with a middle aged white man in a leather jacket, both on their phones, mumbling to each other.
    Note to self: living on the phone is still a bad look.

    Carrying a laptop gives me more “fiddle space” than fooling with a phone in public, plus typing up something for TRM makes me look like a Super Executive D00D, not just another lazy bum wasting time in a comments section. So the laptop stays. Coffee time’s over.

  13. @Palleo

    “If YaReally is actually gone for good, I would say the blame rests on him more than the OMGs at this point.”

    Yes ^ It his decision to leave.

    “then YaReally could always just start his own. The excuses he’s given as to why he can’t start his own blog are pretty weak.”

    .Easier to doxx .He already stated its a time sink. He actually use to comment on the OP but all the people who wanted him to help with PUA convoluted the section.

    ” this is ultimately Rollo’s blog. ”

    I think everyone knows this….

    “With all that said, I don’t think he’s”given up” yet. He probably just got particularly busy at work or something and is focusing on that before he checks back in.”

    Hopefully not.. He has his own life to live and shouldn’t waste time on people stuck in a hugbox

    “But even if Rollo had said that he no longer wanted PUA or field reports discussed on the blog”

    It’s more of an disdain for the companys and “PUA originators” that don’t acknowledge or disregard TRP and TRM.

  14. “Santa baby” playing at home and my oldest: “She sounds like a single mom looking for her BB.”

    High fives!

    Rollo’s reply to Andy reminds me of my old saw:

    “Son, you think you’re in deep when I’m yelling, it’ll be worse when I stop. That means I’ve checked out and your twisting in the wind.”

    I’ll cede to St. Ambrose:

    Those who insult us and treat us contumeliously are anxious for a spiteful and sarcastic reply: the silence we then affect disheartens them, and they cannot avoid showing their vexation; they do all they can to provoke us and to elicit a reply, but the best way to baffle them is to say nothing, refuse to argue with them, and to leave them to chew the cud of their hasty anger. This method of bringing down their pride disarms them, and shows them plainly that we slight and despise them. – Saint Ambrose, Offices

    Thanks!

    Oh. Right now missus just tells me: “St. Ambrose lived in the 300’s. You know, Ehintellect, human nature doesn’t change.”

    beer bottles clink.

    My life rocks. So freaking funny. Double thanks.

  15. @pellaeon

    Yeah, what mersonia said.

    It is easier to doxx if he has his own blog, and hes said that he doesn’t want to think up topics. That makes sense. Yareally mostly looks over FRs and gives advice…it doesn’t really make sense for him to make his own blog. Hes more the guy that comments on what other people say, and hes most useful when he can spend 100% of his time on giving advice to others. He shouldn’t waste his time coming up with topics and blog posts — instead, let him give advice to other men to help them put TRP and TRM into practice.

    Its true its ultimately yareallys choice to leave…but that’s also like saying its a guys choice to leave a run down area with shootings everyday —> he wouldn’t even consider leaving if the environment were a little nicer.

    That’s what I mean by the OMGs being the cause of him leaving. Its from this cliquish behavior and starting shit that has created all this mess.

    He’s not wholly innocent, though in my opinion scray is much worse and Ive had issues with him in the past as well. But to claim its only the YSG/PUA’s that start fights is ridiculous. OMGs are just as bad.

    That’s what I said in the past about marriage debate…its just too sensitive of a topic for guys to hash this out. Its gonna take a long time to figure out a solution.

    FR section has been good so far, and I hope he comes back to comment on that. The whole situation is unfortunate. Guys should be coming together to help each other out, but instead it turns to in fighting and tribalism.

    I feel none of this would ever had happened if all of us were meeting in person however.

    Wish everyone the best though, OMGs and YSG and Rollo alike. Hopefully everything will sort its self out.

  16. Yeah, it’s not cliques going on. More like tribal associations. The origin of the word clique in French language includes the necessity to excluding non-members. No one here is trying to exclude anyone from red pill discussion. No one is trying to shut down Game or PUA discussion. Rollo has always encouraged Game and PUA discussion. I fucking love PUA Game talk. The process matters. The process has meaning. I just wish some of the PUA guys were more satisfied, happy and emotionally fulfilled in talking about it. That speaks to Red Pill instruction and awareness–the goal is to be released from constraint in inter-sexual relations.

    The goal is lack of fear, enlightened self interest and Real Power (T. M.) (e.g. You dictate the terms. Able to give and not have to take. You dictate the terms. You are not needy because you handled your shit. Great pickup is not even pickup. It is being not doing. You don’t attract what you want, you attract what you are. When you become complete as a man you are coming from a place of genuine self esteem and non-neediness, self amusement and posititivity. –heh Tyler’s words not mine. )

    No old married guys drove YaReally away. (Although I do think Newlyaloof had a good point in that someone like myself argued like a girl: got YaReally emotional so he drove himself away because he lowered himself to an emotional state in the discussions). If you step aside from the emotional descent, the intellectual battle was good. Things were learned. To the extent that a guy doesn’t have to apologize for his thoughts (assertiveness), or have covert contracts or to defend, explain, excuse or rationalize his thoughts and statements: Things Get Learned.

    I disregard the argument from Ego. Ego is the sine qua non of Mental Point of Origin and enlightened self interest. It is Frame. It is irrational self confidence. There is nothing at all that is wrong with that. (Unless you find yourself on the other side of the debate aisle. Then it sucks)

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/the-sixteen-commandments-of-poon/

    XI. Be irrationally self-confident

    No matter what your station in life, stride through the world without apology or excuse. It does not matter if objectively you are not the best man a woman can get; what matters is that you think and act like you are. Women have a dog’s instinct for uncovering weakness in men; don’t make it easy for them. Self-confidence, warranted or not, triggers submissive emotional responses in women. Irrational self-confidence will get you more pussy than rational defeatism.

    Just like in the video Rollo just posted, Tyler makes some points early on (Lol, what a ramble on though, inspiration via hitting rambling bullet points, and the praise of relationship game and Deida, heh even if he explains it like a five year old. That was a ramble about bigger picture, getting older after 37 y.o. and relationship game. Progression–Bigger Picture in Life= relationship game ):

    The majority of of people will spend time shit-talking other people.

    The boring monotony of life is actually going out and making yourself better. Instead of shit-talking others.

    The Elite are playing a big game.

    The Elite ask what else can I be doing with time.

    It’s not inherently a problem, it’s about what else we can be doing with our time. Are you the creator or the consumer?

    The old married guys and enlightened self interest old guys aren’t shit testing here to get off on it, we are spending our time learning and actually making ourselves better. It’s not like Sentient, Blaximus and I have decided to rest on our laurels because we have a completion in our lives, right now, and we are bragging about it. Nothing is further from our truth, there is no such animal, and we are pushing forward and learning and deciding our time is valuable in pushing forward with red pill self improvement. We are spending time self improving by pushing ourselves and others. Sorry if you don’t like the difficulty in hearing red pill truths outside of trying to get laid. I laugh when Mersonia is whining about mental masturbation at pretty much the same time on the clock when I am fucking my wife because she wants me to. That’s a: you gotta be shitting me moment.

    Shit testing is part of the process of masculine self improvement. I’m gratified to have been tested. (By YaReally and Andy–no shit I learned and changed some stuff for more red pill awareness and game Real Power (T.M.)–I shit you not it was a great experience) actually I’m really happy for testing guys like Softek, ScribblerG, Forge and Roused and any damn single young guy to get better and better and be authentically working on themselves.

    (I have to confess that I have actually spent the last 15 years intellectually debating stuff on internet forums. (other topics including guns and outdoor sportsman’s stuff) Umm, Sorry? if I picked up a few tactical skills at intellectual debate (a surrogate behavior for tribal fighting in a real cushy life. It is part of the masculine genre. One of the rites of passage I had back in 1975-1979 was high school competitive wrestling, mano a mano, but on a team, where when the team score beat the other team, that was fun.) My goal is to make progress. And to do stuff. Not to whine and shit-talk, but to actually move the ball down the field. And we all know what is at stake in the game of inter-sexual red pill awareness and game.

    Debate doesn’t need to be shut down. And after the debate, guys are evolutionary designed to relax, be adults and have a metaphorical beer after a bar fight to enjoy the battle through hard times into relaxing because of the purposeful fight was productive.

  17. “That’s what I said in the past about marriage debate…its just too sensitive of a topic for guys to hash this out. Its gonna take a long time to figure out a solution.”

    I thought we settled that debate. I changed my advocacy because of the debate.

    Don’t ever get married ( or do it again), unless you have a lot of disposable (and I mean disposed of income) in the upper middle class with a hot babe you want to lock down which you can’t otherwise lock down to raise kids with until they are 21 years old. In other words, unless you can handle a shit storm. Generally recognized as only apex earning males.

    Marriage is just Blue Pill and is generally recognized as such. Because of the manosphere debates. It is self evident.

    As in all red pill debates, “The Solution” is to not wish it were easier, make yourself fucking better.

  18. Mersonia

    shouldn’t waste time on people stuck in a hugbox so much crying over a hugbox and yet so little to contribute yourself…

    keep on keeping on…

    quack.

  19. @rollo

    This post has been here for about a week so this comment might get buried but I was wondering if it would be an interesting post for you to speak to the difference in how women communicate with men they find alpha and men who are their emotional dumpster. (Its been covered in aggregate by multiple posts but not specifically how women frame the conversation)

    At my work, I am an expert in not only my field but in our company. Even our newly hired CFO made a comment about finally putting a face to the legend he had heard about. (when we met)

    Since becoming red pill aware and really beginning to actively observe men and women in the office, I have found that women come to me specifically for career advice, my expertise, leadership and my help to make things happen. They don’t complain, they don’t dump their emotions they don’t ask me how I feel other than to make sure I approve. This defer to leadership (as I call it) has been happening more and more recently (either from my continued awaking to RP or my ability to finally notice)

    What made me think to bring this female communication between alpha (defer to leadership for help/decisions )and beta men (let me dump my feeling on you) was a co-worker I used to work with a lot looked out of sort and I made a joke about her being high.. and she almost emotionally broke down when she told me her brother recently died. She visibly choked it down and I changed the subject before she broke down. She was incredibly relieved. In a way, changing the subject gave her strength or at least a distraction. Since then she has tried to be more engaged with me and constantly asking for my approval of what she does. I find it interesting that blue pill men might have wanted to try and help by having her discuss her feelings or try to connect with her and talk about how awful he feels for her.

    Another example is a girl I used to sleep with texted me after the election out of the blue about how distraught she was and how the world was going to end because Trump won. (She doesn’t know I prefer Trump to Hillary). In the ramblingly long text she even mentioned how angry and unstable her current boyfriend was over it. All I said back was, “Take a deep breath, its going to be fine.” From that point on she has been trying to re-engage me and always flirty. Its obvious to me she wasn’t looking for someone to have an emotional conversation with..(her distraught beta boyfriend could have handled that) she wanted someone to tell her she was freaking out and pull her back to earth.

    Both of those situations in a blue pill world would have triggered the “lets explore how we feel” conversation, but really they didn’t want that.

  20. I feel none of this would ever had happened if all of us were meeting in person however.
    ……….

    Yeah because I would have moved to a new venue

    The YSG vs OMG debate….. reminds me of the Clinton’s what the definition of is is. Utterly fucking pointless and there’s bourbon to drink, bikes to ride and bitches to bang

  21. @Elooie

    You are being indirect in your questioning.

    If I were Rollo I would question: what are you really asking. In other words: “How can I help you?”

    What are your motivations and goals? Do you want to “get” with some of the girls in your employment?

    If you do, this is the paradox that Scribbler was going through in mentorship game with younger women. It takes balance. And it is sexual balance if that is what you are actually asking about and if that is appropriate in your workplace.

    “Both of those situations in a blue pill world would have triggered the “lets explore how we feel” conversation, but really they didn’t want that.”

    You most certainly don’t want that. Discussing it out is actually a stage of the female stages of manipulation. When a women tells you of the need to discuss, it is best to refuse. It is better not actually discuss at length, Stuff. It is a trap well set by women.

  22. “I feel none of this would ever had happened if all of us were meeting in person however.”

    I can’t recall ever actually throwing punches in real life. But I don’t recall ever really being blue pill or not battling against the feminine imperative. I can’t recall ever not disagreeing with other guys that I didn’t resonate with.

    The greatest thrill in my life was hopping on a co-workers Hond 550 Four in 1980. I tried to buy one with no money a year later. I saw one in the Salvation Army store back in 1982. (Priced at $500.) But not money to my name, I figured if only my student loan check would come in, I could buy the bike. I expected the student loan check of $2500 to come in in three to four weeks, but it came in one week after my shopping excursion. I race to the store, but the bike was gone. And I never had another inlet to bike riding. And couldn’t afford the injury liability the last 25 years. Buying a bike is the first thing on my list to do if I ever get frivorced divorced. But that is getting even more of a ghost experience with red pill game experience.

    But I actually would start a verbal battle or a physical altercation if we had this discussion in real life. The virtual battles are not for nothing. The can be a proxy for real life. I’d punch YaReally in real life for calling my wife not worthy of fucking. Which he has emotionally driven me to do. Obligatory fucking: LOL

  23. SJF

    In the late 70s early 80s I worked for this old wrench,one of the 10th mountain div. ski patrol,met most of the 10th as they would come to hang at the garage talk politics bet on games ect.

    Made the mistake of talking humor with his wife,something to the efect of how okies drop their jaw for effect after saying something.She took offense to this and mentioned it to the old man.
    He got in my face,and he was snorting mad,you bet I made a sincere apology to his wife in his presence.

    I was young and dumb and full of cum,and have never made this mistake again.

  24. @ Rollo

    One of the main reasons I chose what I’m doing as my profession is because it’s a trade.

    Supplying tangible products/services. Faster EFT strikes me as very similar to PUA. Yes, it works. The heart of it is really good. I’ve seen the benefits firsthand, both with myself and other people.

    In Faster EFT the advice is “actionable” in the sense that there is a specific thing to do to deal with emotional issues. It isn’t some pie in the sky idealism thing — there is a specific plan of action with the specific goal of addressing emotional issues.

    “Addressing” meaning getting rid of them. As in you can think of some previously bad memory you had and have no reaction to it. Thinking the words “I’m a loser” and feeling that they’re not true at all, when 5 minutes ago you completely identified with that belief.

    It really works. What turned me off was getting introduced to the business aspect of it, seeing what people were charging for sessions, and how it was distorting the purity and simplicity of the technique for profit.

    People learn a LOT from seminars and training, for sure….just as I’m sure guys learn SOMETHING from paying Owen 3k to go on a PUA bootcamp thing.

    (why are these things ALWAYS like a minimum of a couple thousand dollars? rhetorical question…)

    But it isn’t necessary. I learned everything I needed to know from watching the FREE Faster EFT videos online….I put a lot of money down for the “real” stuff, the stuff that the “free videos don’t go into depth about.”

    I was all about tapping and improving myself and seeing MAJOR changes for like 9 months….but when I got into the business aspect it crushed me. Drained my soul to feel like the truth of it was being watered down and spiffed up at the same time to make a quick buck. I’m STILL getting over the disillusionment I went through when I saw the ugly business side of it.

    Maybe it’s because I’m simple-minded, but to me, making money makes the most sense when it’s a trade.

    Example: Your car looks like shit. You want it spiffed up. You pay someone to refinish it, buff everything out and make it look like a million bucks. Yes, it’s a luxury, but you’re paying DIRECTLY for a service that is tangible. You have something you can see and touch that is something you did not have before.

    HOWEVER….as a musician, I also know the value of entertainment. NOTHING wrong with entertainment at all, or making money for entertaining.

    The problem is when what is ACTUALLY entertainment is being sold as some “truth,” or just something that it isn’t.

    A lot of the Faster EFT quotes became trite very quickly….while the most valuable things I learned from it were the older videos where there were a lot of SPECIFICS about how to get rid of emotional issues.

    Like all the talking and lecturing revolved around actionable advice. And that’s why it helped me so much. When it started dwindling down to trite quotes like “change your mind and change your world” it just felt ruined.

    It also sucks because it makes it look gimmicky as fuck to newcomers who are on the skeptical side. Because it IS gimmicky at that point.

    You can’t bullshit a trade. Either you fix something or you don’t. If you do a shit job you’re going to have complaints and you can either get better and improve them or learn another skill you’ll do better at.

    It just makes me feel sick. One of the hardest things for me to watch is the dilution of TRUTH and VALUE to make a quick buck. Makes me feel physically ill whenever I see something like that.

    One of the things that makes me feel most alive is striving as hard as I can to make my customers feel like they’ve gotten a lot of value for their money. I’m always a little disappointed whenever I don’t get the immediate “Wow!” response.

    Anyway, this is a Blue Pill/Red Pill offshoot.

    We could have a whole discussion about the ethics and Blue Pill/Red Pill nature of making money. In one sense PUA guys are “Red Pill” as far as money goes — at the end of the day you’re either making a lot of money or you’re not. The “Red Pill” there would be making money without any regard for the services you’re providing.

    If you’re making the money and benefiting, you win (financially, anyway). And guys like me who are kind of disgusted with that behavior could be seen as Blue Pill, clinging to some kind of Utopian ideal where everyone exchanges real, tangible services for money or some other goods of as equal a value as possible.

    I’m going on a tangent. I know. And I know this isn’t what Rollo was getting at. But talking about PUA not being Red Pill and then the degradation into Tony Robbins style marketing a lot of PUA guys have resorted to….

    …just got my mind going in other places. But just like with Faster EFT, it’s important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    It just sucks because that’s what a lot of “gurus” are doing by over-producing and whoring themselves out, even if the original product they started with was of immensely high value, and is still of immensely high value.

    It just looks tacky. When you’ve said everything you wanted to say, but your income is still dependent on continuing to say things…..now you’re in a rut.

  25. “why are these things ALWAYS like a minimum of a couple thousand dollars?”

    see the cnn doc about james arthur ray. they interviewed a couple of women who were in sedona when those poeple died in the sweat lodge. this one woman pulled out a bankers box of notebooks she said were filled with writing she had done at his seminars over a period of YEARS. she hadn’t looked at the stuff for a year but was ready to get back to work on herself. lol. perfect ons material. all of them.

    “self improvement is masturbation” – palahniuk/uhls

    “self improvement is better left to people in big cities” – g. meyer

    “we’re all fine just the way we are” – g. meyer

    OP:

    rites of passage meant:

    confronting death, confronting other men, working with other men, risking life for no reason, risking life for a good reason, learning that you weren’t the center of the universe, learning that sex was free, learning that women exist to bring pleasure.

    and timing is important. take being in wilderness. lots of boy scouts go out. they hike. they climb. they camp. they have older role models teaching them valuable life skills like how to read topo maps, compass, control fire, cook, first aid, etc.

    they gain confidence. work with their friends. fight. many would consider this a right of passage. but is it?

    my favorite part about the wilderness? leaving it. and coming back to a warm home and warm food and a soft place to lie down. there is nothing like it. but in order to get that feeling, I have to go out and deal with the hard ground, rocky trails, weather, wild animals, accidents in order to appreciate my delicious life.

    I could not have reached this conclusion as a 12 year old boy scout.

    another rite of passage: dumping a hot young chick for no reason

  26. Being a man. Integrity. Rites of Passage are all about becoming something greater than you were before. Wiser. Stronger. Authenticity.

    The loss of that, for whatever reason, is not good. And maybe is what gives way to people whoring themselves out. It’s a moot point if you look at TRP as an individual journey and that you don’t need anyone except yourself to go through any particular Rite of Passage.

    But I maintain it’s a cultural thing at heart. This doesn’t mean the individual can’t go through “Rites of Passage,” but I wouldn’t call them “Rites of Passage” for semantics’ sake.

    What the OP is about is some collective of men, and a hierarchy within that collective. SOME kind of social order and reinforcement that promotes SOME idea of masculinity.

    In my case, I think of my mentor and “Rites of Passage” I’ve had with him. I don’t think he ever planned it that way. He just throws me work once in a while. But when I’ve overcome some very difficult jobs he’s given me, and he seemed really proud of me/impressed with my work, that felt like a “Rite of Passage.”

    Because I got approval from a seasoned veteran in the field with an established reputation and decades of experience. Which simply acts as a point of credibility for my development: the goal wasn’t to get praise or validation, but to have a WITNESS while I went through the experiences I did.

    He knew I was struggling a lot of times, and wouldn’t do anything to help me, and when I’d finally figure something out on my own after a month or so, he’ll say something like “I knew you’d figure it out. You have to be able to think for yourself in this business or you’re not going to make it.”

    Even now, one thing that has kept me going is being able to show him work I’ve done. I’m becoming more independent with time, but having a witness to my growth has been a huge factor in my growth.

    Men might not NEED men in their lives to fill all these roles, but I think it’s certainly NATURAL and potentially HUGELY IMPORTANT.

    My friend and mentor has been VERY hands-off a lot of times. And also very hands-on, to the point of doing critical jobs for me and letting me watch and take notes. And then it was on me to go practice.

    It’s not cut and dry with “Rites of Passage.”

    But I do think the nature of it is that other men are involved. More experienced men overseeing, even in a completely hands-off way, the progress of younger, less experienced men, in a particular task.

    It isn’t necessarily LEADING younger men, or actively altering their course in any way. But passively observing and offering honest feedback, and being ready to give a modest amount of well-earned praise……after it’s been earned. Before it’s time to move onto the next step.

    That’s what I think a Rite of Passage is.

    Whether it’s MANDATORY for a man to healthily develop and thrive is another story. Musashi himself wasn’t exactly completely alone, though, as I think he had some mentoring from the Zen monk Takuan. If I remember correctly.

    “Rites of Passage” can be between a mentor and an apprentice, a tribe of men, and if you want to get abstract about it, a solitary man with his own self (although that contradicts what I was saying about a Rite of Passage inherently being collective — for semantics’ sake)….

    …but whatever way, it’s an inherently masculine thing.

    Reminds me of a girl I was talking to yesterday saying she was watching some documentary (made by a woman) about how boys and men are emotionally stunted and damaged because of how they’re forced to suppress their emotions, etc.

    The Blue Pill me would think “Awesome, a woman who is sympathetic towards men.”

    The me now thinks “Wow, that’s fucking dumb. And actually offensive. Women have no idea what it’s like to be men and trying to make a documentary like they understand the nuances of our life experience is bullshit. But at the same time if it plays into their hamster thinking I’m some dark triad Alpha with a hidden, gooey soft center that only THEY ALONE can penetrate and sift through the depths of…..hooray for me. If women keep thinking like this I’ll be a fucking legend by the end of the year without even trying. Their imagination just does all the work for me. Isn’t that cool?”

  27. My toughest rite of passage was when in eighth grade when a group (maybe 8) of big, tough kids confronted me (I was a shrimp) and the leader told me to suck his dick. I put up my fists and got ready to fight. The leader was so sure that I would beg or comply that he didn’t know what to do at that point. Another guy who was a clown but also a tough kid started telling the leader why he didn’t need to beat me up and how it wouldn’t earn him any laurels and I got some respect from standing up to the group. People talked about it.

  28. boys and men are emotionally stunted and damaged because of how they’re forced to suppress their emotions, etc.

    If they’re emotionally stunted and damaged, it’s because they’re not suppressing their emotions near enough. The kind of emotions women are talking about? Suppress the hell out of them. They won’t help you.

  29. @Elooie, you’re onto something. I read your post and saw myself in it. Unfortunately, as the emotional dumpster. Although I sincerely believe I have turned the corner of late.
    I would be interested in any solicited essay on the topic.

  30. @Rollo

    If RSD are moving into the positive thinking model, their clients will soon question their approach as well as their results.
    Those questioning minds will eventual discover this blog. Ultimately swell your ranks.

    Don’t you think you owe the boys and girls at RSD, a christmas card at least?

  31. “I mean after all once you accept women for what they are and realize the game you’re playing….and just say shit it is what it is.. then it just is what it is. You play and You get better.”

    wise words right there… Fuck it, might as well have some fun.

  32. Blax
    “I will always be this way because it’s part of who I am. It’s got nothing to do with ego…”

    http://gph.is/13FqVUf

    I mean, you do see what you did there, right? Who is this “I” you speak of?

    SJF
    “Yeah, it’s not cliques going on. More like tribal associations.”

    po-tay-to, po-tah-to

    Ollie
    “I would be interested in any solicited essay on the topic.”

    When they start treating you as an emotional tampon, walk away. Take your ball and go home because they sure as hell won’t be playing with your balls. It means she doesn’t see you as sexworthy and likely never will. Time better spent on a new girl.

  33. @Hank

    It is easier to doxx

    Register the blog using an email with bogus personal details.

    he doesn’t want to think up topics.

    He only needs one – “post your field reports here.” That’s it. Literally. Not the title, the entire post of each and every page on the blog. He can get away with just one page on the blog for a long time until the comments get too unwieldy.

    Then he creates his second blog post. “FRs part 2.” Again, not the title, this is the entirety of the post. The only significant thing that changes about how he operates is the URL at which he is leaving comments.

  34. There was a scene (I’ve been trying to find it on youtube to link here but it doesn’t seem to be available) in the most recent episode of Vikings, with Ivar (Ragnar’s crippled son). Ivar agreed to go on a raid to England with his father, and his mother had a vision that he would die on the journey. She loved him more than anyone else in the world and didn’t want him to go, and told him about her vision. His entire life she had protected him due to his disability.

    His response (as best I can remember it): “You have always protected me and I love you. But one day of living, as a man, with my father…is worth more than a lifetime of pity”.

  35. @Palleon

    “He only needs one – “post your field reports here.” That’s it. Literally. Not the title, the entire post of each and every page on the blog. ”

    Yeah I doubt anyone just wants to look at field reports all day..

    But Yeah Basically his the gist of his goal was to reach individuals like scribblerg who felt younger women wouldn’t be attracted to him and whatnot ,and show him that it was possible and encourage him to not give up on himself and that it could be done.

    To clear up PUA Misconceptions and provide lurkers with information, beneficial advice .Not stuff like just do it and wear a nice suit/LIFT MORE WEIGHTZZZZZ that would be detrimental in their journey later because they attribute their success external factors. The field reports just kind of happened as a result.

    That’s why TRM is gold because it helps you understand alot of concepts about women ,and having Ya post on it was golden because he provided actionable advice that people could try.

    but Just reading the TRM would never have made scrriblerg attempt to talk to young females , or Just stating JUST DO IT would never make lurkers or incels (lol or lurkers who are incels) go approach a girl in a store.

    Oh scribblerg You can’t approach young hot pussy…”their just girls”…….. lol that won’t help.

    @Rollo

    The reason you see a bunch of RSD shit is because they give actionable advice. Because action is what changes lives.

    Of course if your like an OMG and you have shit settled and your happy and what not you don’t need actionable advice and understanding female concepts and what not should definitely be enough.

    But a Dynamic Male should always be pushing his boundaries and learning more in my opinion . Being Stagnant is death afterall.

    Yeah but like I said your shit is gold.

  36. “Fuck it, might as well have some fun.”

    Yeah, it’s about a fun, satisfying life, ain’t it?

    “O God, make me good, but not yet.”
    ― Evelyn Waugh, Brideshead Revisited

    Weekend’s almost here, wrestling season started (Yay!) so I’ll drop the youngest off for practice, then to a nearby pub with wife.

    Speaking of, I haven’t needed to post many wifey updates since she internalized a lot, and her labile emotional requirements seem sated. If she has an epic melt down and I’ll be sure to pony up. Here’s a good example her frame-grabby:

    Last night sharing a cigar and I ask for more wine:

    Her: I appreciate this masculinity you’ve been doing, and with the boys too. I really do. (She give me the sexy eye).

    I see it coming from a mile away and chill….

    Her: EhIntellect…ahh…when you ask me do something…could it be less of a demand, please? Let’s roll play. (I’m so chill but want to f’ing laugh out loud). O.K. Instead of saying “Get me a glass of wine please.” you could say “Honey, we both like wine, let’s share a glass.”

    Me: Fun. (I slowly lean in, wobble my shoulders and in my best Ricardo Montalbán) ‘oney…we bot like wine…let chare a glass. (Zoolander kissy lips).

    Her laughing: That’s not exactly what I was looking for.

    Me: Wine please.

    and she (I don’t know how to accurately describe it) half laughing, half pissed gets another bottle. And that’s that.

    This is what it’s supposed to look like, right?

    Thanks!

  37. Yeah I doubt anyone just wants to look at field reports all day..

    Have you never heard of alt.seduction.fast? This is quite literally how PUA took root – people reading each other’s field reports over an email group and providing feedback for each other.

    How long have you been doing pick up and posting field reports online? Personally, I’ve been doing it for a long time, and it’s not easy to find someone who gives quality feedback.

    If YaReally ever started a blog of this nature, I would go there for his feedback.

  38. @Pellyboy

    “ave you never heard of alt.seduction.fast? This is quite literally how PUA took root – people reading each other’s field reports over an email group and providing feedback for each other.”

    Don’t got time for all that gotta get the kiddies ready and stuff while I write these post just cause I feel like blessing you guys with my words today.

    but Yeah man……Time Sink…. Your missing the point.

    “How long have you been doing pick up and posting field reports online? Personally, I’ve been doing it for a long time, and it’s not easy to find someone who gives quality feedback.”

    Yeah…. but all the information is out there…

    Once again in you’re missing the point…. Time Sink for Ya. You said you weren’t impressed with his excuses for leaving… Time Sink… It’s not about you.

    “If YaReally ever started a blog of this nature, I would go there for his feedback.”

    Ya is like a huge database of accurate PUA info man. His archive is still out there. The rest of the shit will come together for you anyways. You gotta move on bro…. nothing last forever

  39. @Palleon – “Barbarossa” isn’t a MGTOW. He dates and fucks women – he just doesn’t do LTRs or marriage. But he rejects and spits on PUAs, lol. He’s also a pseudo-intellectual dingbat on many topics he opines about. His political and economic ideas are juvenile sophistry and he refuses to engage on those issues when he is schooled.

    Sure, he calls himself MGTOW. Someone else on this thread pointed this out too and all I have to say is this. Being independent and dealing with women on your own terms is what the Red Pill is all about. That is what a lot of MGTOWs are doing. Take a Sandman – now he’s a real fucking MGTOW. Hates women with a ferocity that is inconceivable and sees them as hand grenades with the pin pulled. He’s who I’m talking about, and haven’t listened to him forever. Guys like GoodFella and AngryMgtow etc. These guys are nothing but failed men. Sorry, get over it.

    I’ve been around for a while, had a MGTOW channel with 22k views that was growing like wildfire but realized that MGTOW was just making virtue of giving up. I could have easily been a YouTube superstar in the Mens Movement, but I stopped. Ya know why? Cuz it’s mostly mental masturbation. It’s a buffer and a way of gaining the illusion of “status” when in reality you are sitting at your PC blathering away and clacking keys but not doing shit.

    I’m Red Pill to be real. To take on the challenge of being a man full on. To make sure I get what I WANT out of life and women. To embrace my masculinity full on and to play big in the world.

    But if you want to eschew women cuz they are too scary and mean, go right ahead. Just don’t expect me to dignify it or respect it. Life sucks, grow up and get a helmet.

    I mean, what is your definition of MGTOW that differs from the Red Pill as I defined it above?

  40. @Andy – You want truth? Shut the fuck up, your entire comment was adolescent, pseudo-intellectual, dime-store psychological bullshit. Your ego is coming through as you tear down men 10 times better than you will likely ever become.

    In the real world you’d be gargling with your teeth right now. Just who in the fuck do you think you are?

  41. Rollo
    That RSD video is one of the most rambling things I’ve seen in a while. There was maybe 30 minutes of material there, tops. Tyler’s bumping up against TRM / Athol MMSL / Dalrock territory. “Men are from Mars” and Deida are 90’s books, sorta useful but out of date, this is ironic given RSD’s cutting-edge image. His cold call, club / street game is obviously strong, but he’s obviously not congruent in LTR game. Maybe someone needs to send him a couple of books, like “TRM” and “Preventative medicine”, heh.

    “You don’t attract what you want, you attract what you are” is … lame. Am I a 40-something fatty with dirty hair? Am I a 22 year old slim college student with long black hair? Am I a 30-something black bartenderess with a sharp sense of humor and weaves? Am I a 30-something married woman with a child and a margarita poolside? I’m no Blaximus, but I’m seeing women across a range of ages and situations giving attention to me, displaying attraction. It’s my subcomms for sure, yet I am not “that” and not actually seeking “that”.

    Ok, I get the whole power-of-positive-thinking aspect of “you attract what you are”, but that’s a step backwards from what I gleaned out of previous vids. It is woo-woo, the next step is “Name it and claim it”. Ironic that Tyler mentioned Joel Osteen, since that’s where he’s drifting IMO.

    As Rollo observed, Tyler is heading into “power of positive thinking” / Tony Robbins territory. This takes the keen edge of a PUA out of his niche – pickup – and throws him into a different pool where there be whales. I don’t see that working out well. But why is this happening?

    Is this a life cycle issue? Mystery wrote and made vids, now he’s a babydaddy reduced to making “Man the fuck up!” advice vids, like that’s a new thing nobody ever thought of – purple pill for sure. RooshV basically ran “exotic stranger” game across Europe and established a niche brand that deadended, now he’s trying to reinvent in some purple pill mode [*]. Athol Kay ran “Captain of my ship!” game to the point that he decided to quit his day job and become a life coach or marriage coach, which is a whole order of magnitude more demanding than what he was doing – and he’s become purple pill. It’s a pattern. It seems to result from men deciding that whatever aspect of male / female relations they’ve mastered, it’s not enough and they need to “level up” or “expand franchise” or some such thing. It’s as if Rollo decides, eh, this job is too small town, I’m going to buy out Seagrams and run it. We all have some max level of competence, yeah, but there’s some kind of “reversion to the Female Imperative” that is going on as well over and over again. There is something to be wary of.

    [*] The RooshV “meetups” was one of the dumbest ideas I ever read of, it painted a bullseye target on the back of many men. IMO it was the result of RooshV believing his own PR, that positive thinking would overcome the brainwashing of feminism. It’s interesting to me that there are men who regard his press conference as a triumph, because I viewed it and saw a sob session, a trainwreck and the press covered it as a freak show. My takeaway: the Red Pill / the glasses is a semi-underground phenomenon and will be so for the forseeable future. Big, public, Promise Keeper style rallies are not gonna happen, ever – because if there’s ever enough men in one place to make that work, either they will be massively targed by the MSM, or the culture will have changed enough that such rallies won’t be needed.

  42. @Rollo – Bravo. Great comment. It seems some men are confused about what you are doing here. You are beyond and deeper than PUA and the Men’s Rights Movement. You base your commentary on science and ideas that are not just hackneyed slogans and then are open to questioning them. Your entire pose is descriptive and analytical versus prescriptive while some of the morons biting at your ankles don’t even know what that fucking means.

    The fact that you don’t monetize this is absolutely key. I’ve had a similar experience with my writing and music. I decided long ago that trying to pursue popularity and commercial success are something that would interfere with it. That it would put more ego in, not less. That it would make me “market” myself and rush to hit deadlines and pressure myself.

    Nope, instead I took 3 years to write my first book. Another 2 to edit it. Then 3 years on the second one. I spend over a year writing a single song sometimes, never write them down and then forget them. But because I’m so unattached I can let the muse overtake me and flow so beautifully. My musical partner is shocked – I can write songs on the spot. I can flow live, performing and freestyle a song and the audience doesn’t know it’s not a composed piece. All because I concentrated on building the muscle of “creative flow”, not cranking out songs. For years. Without relent and without seeking popularity.

    People listen to my music now and are stunned. Like they are shocked that I’m not popular and performing and recording. I’m not even a good guitar player. But I know how to make beautiful songs and to tell stories. And I love giving them the gift of my music, but beyond that? Who cares?

    You? You are an artist with thought on this subject. All you’ve done is seek truth – and over time, that has simply put you ahead of the rest who are cashing in. Don’t get me wrong, I get cashing in but I also see it for what it is.

    As for RSD Luke, lol what a fucking joke. Like I care what that morbidly obese half-smart slob has to say about anything, especially this topic. The guy does whore and stripper game for the most part (notice how he states that the girls he chases “Make money off of their looks” in his case that means whores and strippers). Take a good look at most of the skanked out plastic dingbats in his videos. I wouldn’t trade my life for his in a million years. He essentially takes the leftover 3rd rate star fuckers who Dan Bilzerian cast aside. And they use him for access to higher status people. Big deal, whoop de doo – skip a meal, you disgusting, lazy fuck.

    I am amazed by your resilience and clarity of mind. You are an example, not Tyler, who’s doing the “Self Help” thing just as you described now. He’s welcome to it of course, but it does flip his entire philosophy upside down. He’ll cash out, and good for him. But recently I’ve stopped listening to his videos cuz of it. I’ve been through a ton of self-help and he’s just parroting the same stuff that’s been done a million times, and far better than he is doing it. You guys who want to do self-help, fuck Tyler, go do Tony Robbins. He will blow your mind and get you jacked, and he’s been doing it forever. He’s been at it almost 3 times as long as Tyler did PUA, he’s a master at it and will get you motivated in a way Tyler will never do.

    As for the rest of the bullshit on the comment section here, we have to figure this out ourselves, guys. Childish arguing, race realism – I’m not interested. Smart convos and back and forth about our POV and experiences? I’m down like a clown. I really enjoy the commentary of men here.

    I’ve got a bit of a light weekend coming up, and I’ll be around dishing it out for a couple of days.

    As for Ya’s absence, well so it goes. I’m a fan but I also skipped 80% of what he said cuz he goes so fucking long. And he cannot let go of a point. I remember when he was lecturing me about my daughter, and being the “web genius” he is, he google searched and found the psychologist who espoused the theories I was citing as my diagnosis of the situation with my daughter that another psychologist I saw based her assessment on. Like I was light years ahead of him, but he’s going to sort me out. Still, I loved his PUA input it helped tremendously. I wish we could find a way back to a place where we all could enjoy this here.

    But it seems not. More to come…

  43. @scribblerg

    I appreciate Rollo’s stuff. Learned a lot from everyone here. Just wish he’d open his mind a bit more… but, that’s just my idealism showing again.

  44. @Andy – No, it’s your bitchy arrogance showing again. Your fatal flaw as a man. Guys like you used to get punched a lot and then they shut up. But these days pussies like you run their mouths without tasting their own blood in their mouths.

    Shut up. For like a year. It will probably be the best year of your life.

  45. I mean, what is your definition of MGTOW that differs from the Red Pill as I defined it above?

    *Shrug*

    The only MGTOWs I really payed any attention to were Barbarossa and RazorBladeKandy. I feel that both exposed me to some ideas that were both useful and new to me, particularly razor blade Kandy. The idea that both men and women are biologically designed for Gynocentrism did not really register with me until I started listening to them.

    I already gave you the definition they used. I remember it particularly as they’re was a big blow up with Paul Elam trying to claim that even married men could be considered MGTOW. According to Elam, defining MGTOW as “never wanting to marry” was too restrictive.

    Being independent and dealing with women on your own terms is what the Red Pill is all about. That is what a lot of MGTOWs are doing.

    IMO, Red pill is one of those nebulous concepts that are really hard to nail down… and MGTOW is another. Many people want to lay claim to what the terms mean in a way that paints their particular views in a good light, and those who disagree with them in a bad light.

    Personally, I’m a strong believer that we are all inherently fallible, but most of us resist acknowledging our own fallibility. I also believe that being “red pill” is more like being in shape than it is like passing a milestone.

    You can be in really great shape now, but still not quite be in as good of a shape as the guy next to you. If you don’t continue to exercise, than you decline in physique and stamina until you start exercising again. Likewise, I believe that being red pill is less a binary state of “plugged” and “unplugged,” and more of a constant exercise in overcoming the wireless signals of the matrix and forcing your brain to use its own senses.

    You can never completely unplug yourself from it, and if you get complacent, it can slowly start overriding your senses in subtle ways again, while fooling you into believing that you are still “unplugged.”

    As for MGTOW… I’m not entirely sure. I can agree with you that those who avoid women completely ARE it… but I don’t know where to draw the line otherwise, and I’m not particularly invested in nailing it down as I don’t identify with the term anymore.

  46. @Mersonia

    You gotta move on bro…. nothing last forever

    Do you honestly think I’m upset?

    I thought I was merely calmly supporting my argument.

    Which parts of my posts give you the impression that I’m feeling butt hurt?

  47. Pelleon
    I also believe that being “red pill” is more like being in shape than it is like passing a milestone.

    You can be in really great shape now, but still not quite be in as good of a shape as the guy next to you. If you don’t continue to exercise, than you decline in physique and stamina until you start exercising again. Likewise, I believe that being red pill is less a binary state of “plugged” and “unplugged,” and more of a constant exercise in overcoming the wireless signals of the matrix and forcing your brain to use its own senses.

    Good summary. I got sick back in late Sept. early Oct. and stopped lifting for about 2 weeks. We all know what that led to when I got back to it. I had to take extra care to back down on weight and pay more attention to proper technique so I didn’t do something stupid to myself.
    Pick your sport. break down to the skills / muscle memory, and if you lay off for a while, some skills will deteriorate. Reviving / rewiring them is not time consuming, but it’s there.

    In neuroplastic terms, the wiring gets fuzzy-edged if it is not used. The little rivers on the hillside get silted up, conceptually, and need to have a fresh flow of water to re dig them. Using the neuroplastic wiring keeps it sharp; whether it’s mixing drinks fast, driving fast, playing instruments, hacking code, wrenching machines, shooting really fast, diagnosing problems – abstractly it’s all the same thing. Lay off means skillset deterioration.

    Let me try to break it into two parts, skillset and mindset. Red pill is a praxology and world view and skills. Do skills long enough, as Blaximus has, and they are part of you, they are second nature, like driving a car or brushing your teeth. Even there if you didn’t drive a car for a year you would have to consciously pay attention the first time behind the wheel. Stop going out, become an LTR man without understanding your burden of performance and you slide into betahood. That’s what’s up with RooshV and Mystery IMO.

    Red pill world view is counter cultural. The FI presses on us from all sides, all the time. Either we push back, or we tacitly give in. Stop pushing back, stop being red pill, and you start getting more blue pill. Maybe this is how some men go purple pill, they stop pushing back while their woman is pushing relentlessly and unconsciously.

    As I understand it, the praxology really informs skills and world view, but maybe I’m backwards on that, or maybe it’s just how my mind works. I often prefer to get the big picture then break down to detailed application.

    tl;dr
    Being “red pill” is a habit that must be practiced every day, or it will start to fade.

  48. Paul Elam and Dean Esmay are Blue Pill as any plugged in guy you know. What’s worse is they both cling to the same equalism pipe dreams that feminist claim to hold as their personal mandate, but use to advance feminine supremacism. MRAs believe in an idealized equalism being possible between the genders and reject the idea that women and men are fundamentally different and complementary to each other.

    Consequently they get tangled up in the expectation of women being functional equivalents of men with the same dispositions. Like any Blue Pill guy they want it to be easier rather than themselves accepting the Game for what it is and learning to play it better. They seek to avoid their burden of performance in the hopes that women can be negotiated with so they can all just let down the masks the Blue Pill has conditioned them to believe all men wear.

    I honestly hold out more hope for MGTOWs coming into a Red Pill awareness and becoming better men than I ever would MRAs.

  49. @Andy
    “Sorry I picked on your bff dude.”

    This passive-aggressive, juvenile shit is why the adults here call you out.

    For some reason, @SJF sees something in you worth redeeming but I still stand by original my evaluation… you’re a whiny, petulant child with an over-dramatized case of buyer’s remorse, obsessing constantly about ‘what you’ve missed’ or ‘not getting’.

    Kid, there’s no such thing as a raw deal, because life is about what you do and what you allow. Buyer’s remorse is nothing more than not owning the path you chose and/or not having the balls to pick a new one.

    There is ONE thing I do agree with you about, ‘happiness’ is overused and nebulous. If you’re not content with your life it’s because you allow it. Everything else is victimhood bullshit. On the other side of scarcity and fear is everything you want, but you’ve been here for at least a year, grudgingly looking at the other side, stuck.

    Many of the OMGs have good-naturally given you their time, attention and good, actionable advise and your choice for a (non) good-bye speech was to tell them to “Fuck off”. Yet, here you are, back, and still a whiny bitch.

    It doesn’t surprise me one bit that you chose to align with the PUAs. Their craft is founded in the ability to create the illusion of value where none may actually exist… and for the adept, this works well with ONS and STRs.

    But it doesn’t work quite so well in LTRs, where having actual value (and a Frame to match) is essential. Without real value, dread is toothless. As Rollo has said, “Nothing is more threatening yet simultaneously attractive to a woman than a man who is aware of his own value to women.” The OMGs here have internalized this and they live it… Every. Day.

    One paradigm is not intrinsically better than the other… As they say, The Red Pill is amoral and enlightened self-interest should always be your guide… it’s merely the most efficient path to getting what you want. What the hell do you want? From over a year of posting, I have no fucking clue.

    Sincerely, I don’t care which path you pick, just commit to it and own it. Otherwise, you’re just living Einstein’s definition of insanity and that’s a miserable existence.

    If you’re going to fuck around on your wife, tell her and own it. If you’re going to be a married dad and leader of your tribe, own it. If you going to be single, a great dad by day and PUA by night, own it.

    Dude, Just pick a path already… commit to it, own it, do the hard work, and (if necessary) embrace the suck.

  50. I think even for te best of us this is a hope we wish for.

    We can’t escape the burden of performance. This has been the root of my trauma since I was 8yrs old. When I got pulverized with emotional rate from women in my family. I didn’t let it affect me by it did none the less. Their was no push back from my dad who lived and is still living a double life. I can’t change the people who ha said the words “Iove you” the most to me. The guilt and social sickness was hard on my heart. Embracing the irony of that pain and allowing myself to see the world for what it is. The harsh brutal aspects that rattle the physical and adds a punch to the mental. I want to pretend I never learned how to pretend. The burden of performance is knowing your being watched all the time. I suppose a heathy way to do this would be to have a a model from a farthers perpective. Didn’t have that without “Nice guy” syndrome. When you see women for who they are and not for who you want them to be. It brings a since of solace. For example knowing my own original family would be the first to emotional massacre me. Knowing that the deep roots of my pain comes from the experience of that adandonment and than being told I was something I am not. Being told over and over that love is unconditional when it’s only ever conditional based off your performance.

  51. Andy, have you read “Man’s search for meaning” by Viktor Frankl at all, or lately?

    Just asking.

  52. @scribblerg

    If 80-90% of women are chasing 20% of men, why shouldn’t 80% of men give up?
    Why waste time, money and energy trying to catch a girl who doesn’t want to be caught by you?
    Better he save those things and make something of himself. If all else fails at least a hypergamous woman will make herself available to him.

    I also hate the lie that men can have women on their own terms. Almost all of today’s women (in the west) subscribe to the feminine imperative. A woman may pretend she isn’t a member of that club, for as long as it suits her. But at the drop of a hat, she’ll drop the act. And that’s when, you’ll really see what you’ve gotten yourself into.

    How would you catergorise men who are red pill aware, but haven’t killed their beta?
    They despise their old beta game, now they’re red pill aware and won’t use it, but they haven’t replaced it with anything. What of the man who went MGTOW to save money? Works as many hours as possible to escape the poverty he was born into.
    There’s no woman for him while he’s in mission mode.

  53. “Many of the OMGs have good-naturally given you their time, attention and good, actionable advise and your choice for a (non) good-bye speech was to tell them to “Fuck off”.”

    Yeah, kind shitty. I’ll admit that. Although I just really like that clip from Half Baked and it seemed like an awesome time to use it. lol.

    Thanks guys!

    “It doesn’t surprise me one bit that you chose to align with the PUAs. Their craft is founded in the ability to create the illusion of value where none may actually exist… and for the adept, this works well with ONS and STRs.”

    No….. You just don’t get it. I’m beginning to understand that the manosphere is the manosphere for a reason. And it always WILL be the manosphere. Hopefully there’ll always be guys like YaReally around doing the yeomen’s work to pull people through.

    “What the hell do you want? From over a year of posting, I have no fucking clue.”

    If I was happy with great I wouldn’t be here. I want everything.

  54. “If 80-90% of women are chasing 20% of men, why shouldn’t 80% of men give up?”

    Because of biology.

    “A woman may pretend she isn’t a member of that club, for as long as it suits her. But at the drop of a hat, she’ll drop the act.”

    A woman may pretend she don’t need no man, for as long as it suits her. But at the hint of alpha, shell drop the act.

    “How would you catergorise men who are red pill aware, but haven’t killed their beta?”

    As ” almost there”.

    “What of the man who went MGTOW to save money? Works as many hours as possible to escape the poverty he was born into.
    There’s no woman for him while he’s in mission mode.”

    Work smarter, not longer. Mission mode, monk mode, call it what you will…most use it as an excuse not to bust a move in the sexual market place. “I’ll approach when I make six figures…I’ll approach when I have a six pack…I’ll approach when I’m six feet tall” oh fuck 666 were all doomed!

    Engage in the smp or don’t, but don’t give excuses why you’re not, it comes down to personal agency.

  55. ollie
    How would you catergorise men who are red pill aware, but haven’t killed their beta?

    Not yet fully red pill. Still in the process of becoming red pill.
    Possibly still stuck in the bargaining phase.

  56. @Chump No More

    Well said in a married LTR red pill fashion. Actionable advice for Andy.

    Just a little bit of clarification in something I have said indirectly before. I have a little hope for Andy simply because I remember when I was his age and had similar aged children. I think he’s going through a phase. (A dangerous one at that.) My hope is the fog and the dust clears for him over time. A couple years.

    I was in a fog of war with the process of raising young children and my wife being a woman of high self esteem and naturally good at investing fully in the children and in our very active social community. That of course meant that I was often a third place finisher in relationship game. I was very aware of the reality of the situation, but not aware of how to proceed with Value, Frame and the generation of soft dread. The manosphere taught me how and it was real hard to change, but the script was accurate. (Thankfully I never had an existential crisis and had tens of different balls I could juggle–hobbies, sports, family, friends, children’s sports, a business, skill at wealth accumulation and an ability to protect my downside. I also had stoicism more so than lack of fear, but I did have a healthy lack of fear to invest in my future by changing my landscape every four years. )

    I was never deluded by blue pill and that’s why I could easily embrace the red pill. I was never really an AFC. After recovering from the Betatization process (which started 15 years ago and ended 5 years ago), I realized that most of my deficiencies in just getting it and having enlightened self interest (with plenty of excess resources to give my family) were just that: my deficiencies.

    What I actually feel about Andy is hope that he raises his three boys well. Something changes in a man when the children get to the age of 21 and you realize you didn’t do half bad in raising them (and you as a father are intact and at a good station in life also. Imaging the opposite, you as a father are unfulfilled in your own life and your kids are shitty adults). It is somewhat indescribable, but just like a lot of things that go through OMG’s heads and thoughts, there is clarity of thought on this topic for me in my own mind, even if hard to express to others.

  57. “…most use it as an excuse not to bust a move . . .”

    Move upstream and review the Vikings thingy. The woman here seems to get it better than the men at the moment.

    Throughout most of history, most men have spent most of their time in an environment absent of women. As young as 5 they were sent to schools where there were no women. They went into military service where there no women; none, even secretaries and nurses were men. They went to jobs where there was no HR and no women.

    NO women.

    When they chased women, they chased women. When they weren’t chasing women, they were busy getting shit done. With men.

    It had nothing to do with withdrawing from the SMP. It was life.

    And most men who come across these words won’t even be able to conceive of that. You can’t even change clothes in a football locker room any more without having to deal with women around.

    The FI has pushed deep into the culture, and your very minds.

  58. “Andy, have you read “Man’s search for meaning” by Viktor Frankl at all, or lately?”

    Back in the old days (the late 1970’s) we actually had to read books because internet searches weren’t available. I read that book back then, probably as a required reading in Humanities Seminar.

    These day’s simply exploring Wikipedia or searching for a review of an old book is actually quite rewarding. Frankl’s concepts are worth knowing and understanding.

    Rather than power or pleasure (Heh, PUA life), Victor Frankl’s concept was the belief that it is the striving to find a meaning in one’s life that is the primary, most powerful motivating and driving force in humans.

    Another book in a similar, but slightly different vein, also helpful for extracting yourself from an existential crisis was Ernest Becker’s “The Denial of Death”. Which was in effect a call to accept red pill reality in a blue pill world. Or at least check yourself when you are making up shit (and understanding your made up buffers) to deny reality.

  59. kfg
    “The Hero Path

    We have not even to risk the adventure alone
    for the heroes of all time have gone before us.
    The labyrinth is thoroughly known …
    we have only to follow the thread of the hero path.
    And where we had thought to find an abomination
    we shall find a God.

    And where we had thought to slay another
    we shall slay ourselves.
    Where we had thought to travel outwards
    we shall come to the center of our own existence.
    And where we had thought to be alone
    we shall be with all the world.”
    ― Joseph Campbell

    “I must learn to love you.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: A Reader’s Edition

    “Life is like arriving late for a movie, having to figure out what was going on without bothering everybody with a lot of questions, and then being unexpectedly called away before you find out how it ends.”
    ― Joseph Campbell

    “We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.”
    ― Joseph Campbell

    “Find a place inside where there’s joy, and the joy will burn out the pain.”
    ― Joseph Campbell

    “All the gods, all the heavens, all the hells, are within you.”
    ― Joseph Campbell

    “Be silent and listen: have you recognized your madness and do you admit it? Have you noticed that all your foundations are completely mired in madness? Do you not want to recognize your madness and welcome it in a friendly manner? You wanted to accept everything. So accept madness too. Let the light of your madness shine, and it will suddenly dawn on you. Madness is not to be despised and not to be feared, but instead you should give it life…If you want to find paths, you should also not spurn madness, since it makes up such a great part of your nature…Be glad that you can recognize it, for you will thus avoid becoming its victim. Madness is a special form of the spirit and clings to all teachings and philosophies, but even more to daily life, since life itself is full of craziness and at bottom utterly illogical. Man strives toward reason only so that he can make rules for himself. Life itself has no rules. That is its mystery and its unknown law. What you call knowledge is an attempt to impose something comprehensible on life.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: A Reader’s Edition

    “My soul, where are you? Do you hear me? I speak, I call you – are you there? I have returned, I am here again. I have shaken the dust of all the lands from my feet, and I have come to you, I am with you. After long years of long wandering, I have come to you again. Should I tell you everything I have seen, experienced, and drunk in? Or do you not want to hear about all the noise of life and the world? But one thing you must know: the one thing I have learned is that one must live this life. Do you still know me? How long the separation lasted! Everything has become so different. And how did I find you? How strange my journey was! What words should I use to tell you on what twisted paths a good star has guided me to you? Give me your hand, my almost forgotten soul. How warm the joy at seeing you again, you long disavowed soul. Life has led me back to you. Let us thank the life I have lived for all the happy and all the sad hours, for every joy, for every sadness. My soul, my journey should continue with you. I will wander with you and ascend to my solitude.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “I also had to detach myself from my thoughts through turning my desire away from them. And at once, I noticed that my self became a desert, where only the sun of unquiet desire burned. I was overwhelmed by the endless infertility of this desert. Even if something could have thrived there, the creative power of desire was still absent. Wherever the creative power of desire is, there springs the soil’s own seed. But do not forget to wait. Did you not see that when your creative force turned to the world, how the dead things moved under it and through it, how they grew and prospered, and hour your thoughts flowed in rich rivers? If your creative force now turns to the place of the soul, you will see how your soul becomes green and how its field bears wonderful fruit.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “The spirit of the depths even taught me to consider my action and my decision as dependent on dreams. Dreams pave the way for life, and they determine you without you understanding their language. One would like to learn this language, but who can teach and learn it? Scholarliness alone is not enough; there is a knowledge of the heart that gives deeper insight. The knowledge of the heart is in no book and is not to be found in the mouth of any teacher, but grows out of you like the green seed from the dark earth. Scholarliness belongs to the spirit of this time, but this spirit in no way grasps the dream, since the soul is everywhere that scholarly knowledge is not.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “Everything to come was already in images: to find their soul, the ancients went into the desert. This is an image. The ancients lived their symbols, since the world had not yet become real for them. Thus they went into the solitude of the desert to teach us that the place of the soul is a lonely desert. There they found the abundance of visions, the fruits of the desert, the wondrous flowers of the soul. Think diligently about the images that the ancients have left behind. They show the way of what is to come. Look back at the collapse of empires, growth and death, of the desert and monasteries, they are the images of what is to come. Everything has been foretold. But who knows how to interpret it?

    When you say that the place of the soul is not, then it is not. But if you say that it is, then it is. Notice what the ancients said in images: the words is a creative act. The ancients said: in the beginning was the Word. Consider this and think upon it.

    The words that oscillate between nonsense and supreme meaning are the oldest and truest.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “But I was not my self, confronted with my thoughts. I should also rise up above my thoughts to my own self. My journey goes there, and that is why it leads away from men and events into solitude. Is it solitude, to be with oneself? Solitude is true only when the self is a desert.73 Should I also make a garden out of the desert? Should I people a desolate land? Should I open the airy magic garden of the wilderness? What leads me into the desert, and what am I to do there? Is it a deception that I can no longer trust my thoughts? Only life is true, and only life leads me into the desert, truly not my thinking, that would like to return to thoughts, to men and events, since it feels uncanny in the desert. My soul, what am I to do here? But my soul spoke to me and said, “Wait.” I heard the cruel word. Torment belongs to the desert.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: A Reader’s Edition

    “But I was not my self, confronted with my thoughts. I should also rise up above my thoughts to my own self. My journey goes there, and that is why it leads away from men and events into solitude. Is it solitude, to be with oneself? Solitude is true only when the self is a desert.73 Should I also make a garden out of the desert? Should I people a desolate land? Should I open the airy magic garden of the wilderness? What leads me into the desert, and what am I to do there? Is it a deception that I can no longer trust my thoughts? Only life is true, and only life leads me into the desert, truly not my thinking, that would like to return to thoughts, to men and events, since it feels uncanny in the desert. My soul, what am I to do here? But my soul spoke to me and said, “Wait.” I heard the cruel word. Torment belongs to the desert.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: A Reader’s Edition

    “But the supreme meaning is the path, the way and the bridge to what is to come. That is the God yet to come. It is not the coming God himself, but his image which appears in the supreme meaning. God is an image, and those who worship him must worship him in the image of the supreme meaning.

    The supreme meaning is not a meaning and not an absurdity, it is image and force in one, magnificence and force together.

    The supreme meaning is the beginning and the end. It is the bridge of going across and fulfillment.

    The other Gods died of their temporality, yet the supreme meaning never dies, it turns into meaning and then into absurdity, and out of the fire and blood of their collision the supreme meaning rises up rejuvenated anew.

    The image of God has a shadow. The supreme meaning is real and casts a shadow. For what can be actual and corporeal and have no shadow?

    The shadow is nonsense. It lacks force and has no continued existence through itself. But nonsense is the inseparable and undying brother of the supreme meaning.

    Like plants, so men also grow, some in light, others in the shadows. There are many who need the shadows and not the light.

    The image of God throws a shadow that is just as great as itself.

    The supreme meaning is great and small, it is as wide as the space of the starry Heaven and as narrow as the cell of the living body.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “(I) “My soul spoke to me in a whisper, urgently and alarmingly: ‘Words, words, do not make too many words. Be silent and listen: have you recognized your madness, and do you admit it? Have you noticed that all your foundations are all completely mired in madness?'”

    (2) Jung’s soul: “There are hellish webs of words, only words…Be tentative with words, value them…for you are the first who gets snared in them. For words have meanings. With words you pull up the underworld. Word, the paltriest and mightiest. In words the emptiness and the fullness flow together. Hence the word is an image of the God.”

    (3) “But if the word is a symbol, it means everything. When the way enters death and we are surrounded by rot and horror, the way rises in the darkness and leaves the mouth as the saving symbol, the word.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

    “My speech is imperfect. Not because I want to shine with words, but out of the impossibility of finding those words, I speak in images. With nothing else to express the words from the depths.”
    ― C.G. Jung, The Red Book: Liber Novus

  60. Look, the reason I’m interested in the PUA stuff is mostly for the growth. The social skills, frame control, learning to control my state, learning more about myself, deriving my self worth internally and having it tested… and we’re all for conquering fears here right? I think it’ll make me a better Dad too… I don’t see why it has to be separate from TRM and TRP, and MRA, and all this shit… BUT… I get that it is very easily misunderstood. I was a guy that misunderstood it…

    I’ll check out the books. Thanks. Working my way through a pile right now. Improv Wisdom. Good one. Candide by Voltaire. Also good. Going to start The Stranger by Albert Camus.

  61. @Andy

    Look, the reason I’m interested in the PUA stuff is mostly for the growth. The social skills, frame control, learning to control my state, learning more about myself, deriving my self worth internally and having it tested

    Me, too. Best wishes.

    It still tickles and surprises me when a young hottie tries to get my attention. (I bet you get the same feeling.) There were two who sat across the table from me, trying to get my attention. I gave them some, flirting with and teasing them. It was a board game meetup, so it’s easy to be out front of the other, much younger guys who are often nerdy.

    I didn’t remember one of them who doesn’t go to many meetups…I know so many girls, lol…but she remembered me. The other was watching me all night out of the corner of her eye. When I left, the one who doesn’t go to too many meetups caught my eye as I said goodbye to the people at one table. I did a double take, lol. She wears glasses and is still quite hot…an 8 if she bothered to fix herself up to the max…great figure. The other had her unwashed hair up in a bun and she has a bit of an underbite…makes her look slightly snarly…I like it.

  62. @Rugby

    “We can’t escape the burden of performance. This has been the root of my trauma since I was 8yrs old. When I got pulverized with emotional rate from women in my family. I didn’t let it affect me by it did none the less.”

    What happened when you were 8?
    When I was 7 my parents divorced,and as the oldest male in the house I recieved the brunt of abuse and still do.

    “Their was no push back from my dad who lived and is still living a double life”

    A man does what he can to survive.

    .” I can’t change the people who ha said the words “Iove you” the most to me. The guilt and social sickness was hard on my heart. Embracing the irony of that pain and allowing myself to see the world for what it is. The harsh brutal aspects that rattle the physical and adds a punch to the mental. I want to pretend I never learned how to pretend. The burden of performance is knowing your being watched all the time. I suppose a heathy way to do this would be to have a a model from a farthers perpective. Didn’t have that without “Nice guy” syndrome. When you see women for who they are and not for who you want them to be. It brings a since of solace. For example knowing my own original family would be the first to emotional massacre me. Knowing that the deep roots of my pain comes from the experience of that adandonment and than being told I was something I am not. Being told over and over that love is unconditional when it’s only ever conditional based off your performance.”

    If I spoke to my father of abandonment,he would deny a need for the word as for him this is just life on lifes terms.
    He was kicked to the curb at a young age and never knew anything different.

    Understanding red pill praxeology allows us to see into the fears and motivations of our manipulators,understanding this gives us the power to accept them for what they are.
    Then peel the onion of their selfish lies and move into our own direction for life.

  63. I had an odd experience yesterday.

    TL;DR: All this talk about technology distancing people and 2016 women not being able to engage with men because of technology self validation, is self evident, but not an excuse to not engage and be authentic. Passionate and dynamic are optional, but desirable. Wealth, wealth, looks status don’t actually go out of style.

    The odd experience was watching an old movie. Mr. Skeffington with Bette Davis and Claude Raines from 1944.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Skeffington

    The actors, especially the men were terribly straightforward, unflinching, non jittery and always looked someone in the eyes when they were talking to them (laser eyes). Even the loser men were dynamic, passionate, and authentic, but still beholden to the Pareto Principle of Hypergamy.

    The movie was about open Hypergamy. Bette Davis is young and has 15 Plan B men on call at all times. Her brother commits financial fraud and Claude Raines steps in to rescue her from his financial discretions by marrying her. She’s a decent catch. She’s terribly solipsistic and ignores Claude Raines “needs”.

    So Claude Raines “enjoys” each on of his five secretaries. He’s wealthy and knows the score. She loves him but is not in love with him. Using him without desire.

    Job Skeffington: [to Fanny, when she reprimands him for being unfaithful] “You mustn’t be too harsh on my secretaries. They were always very understanding when I came to the office after a hard day at home.”

    They divorce with her doing the process cavalierly. She pushes her daughter off on him when he moves to Germany.

    She rides the cock carousel up until the point that she gets sick, and then rapidly ages at some point.

    When her looks fade and she reaches a late wall in life, she capitulates. Welcomes a weakened Claude Raines back from Europe after she has no other assets (looks faded) and the big punchline is “A woman is only beautiful when she is loved”. Keep in mind this is a post wall unbeautiful woman at this point.

    Despite the fact that the movie is all about red pill awareness, the odd thing to me was back then when the movie was produced, the onscreen acting was so totally different than the weak effort of humans these days to actually be genuinely authentic and directly engage with others. You still need DHV, social proof, and pre-selection, but it was evident that the clothing dress, body language, speech patterns, focus on communicating, and the lack of distraction when speaking were from an older age. Before technology diluted that and forced a separation and a distracted people. Sentient’s irreducible elements of Dynamic, Passionate and Authentic were on display in the movie. All the men were DPA, but still on a bell curve, still with the Pareto Principle in play, still with Hypergamy and the female dualistic strategy in play. Still the burden of performance in play.

  64. @Andy

    “Look, the reason I’m interested in the PUA stuff is mostly for the growth. The social skills, frame control, learning to control my state, learning more about myself, deriving my self worth internally and having it tested… and we’re all for conquering fears here right? I think it’ll make me a better Dad too… I don’t see why it has to be separate from TRM and TRP, and MRA, and all this shit… BUT… I get that it is very easily misunderstood. I was a guy that misunderstood it…”

    Sounds legit to me. And thanks for your admission. You have an impetus in self improvement derived from PUA stuff. Nothing wrong with that. That is endorsable.

    Flash forward 15 years and imagine if you are solely focused on growth as a masculine male with children and a wife (no judgment on the wife issue here or relationships–do what you want and own it with mastery). Keep striving. And don’t compromise your principles for yourself and your family and your children. You will arrive at a very different place that happens to be the place of guys like me, Blaximus, and Sentient. We got some water under the bridge and we have built our castle and want to stay in it.

    We’ll raise an eye when someone endorses burn the system down, ride the tiger and endorse nihilism. It doesn’t resonate with us.

  65. “All the men were DPA, but still on a bell curve . . .”

    The race doesn’t get easier as your condition improves, it gets faster.

    If everyone is improving, it gets much, much harder as the time gaps between competitors shrink and they have to run faster just to maintain their normal finishing place – but the results tables all look the same, an ordered list. 90% of men cannot be above average.

  66. You gotta be shitting me. Liz and Em-ily are engaging in subcommunication here. With anon avatars. How the hell did that happen?

  67. That’s been going for months. At least one of them used to be “a” and the other “A.” Now they’re both wearing the same Halloween costume.

  68. “90% of men cannot be above average.”

    Back in 1984-1985 I used to be terribly frightful if I couldn’t be above 93.5% in my medical school grades (otherwise known as Honors). It was so much enjoyable to look down on the others. And not because of Schadenfreude, but from desire for own personal merit.

    As I’ve mentioned before, I was literally assaulted at the time with comments from my classmates: “Why do we have to learn this shit (referring to the mundane), why can’t we just get to the good stuff?”

    Which is where came my SJF Maxim #1: “Everything Matters”. 20 years later that was what made all the difference. (And this is the PUA vs. OG’s connundrum that RSD is moving on to: a lot of shit, including everything, does matter and you might just want to attend to it. )

    Don’t short yourself on the effort curve gentlemen. If you can’t be in the two standard deviations above the mean, at least to commit to moving up the curve as much as possible.
    Even if you can’t be Alpha, at least be more Alpha. If you can’t swallow the red pill because of difficulty in the five stages of unplugging, give it time and work towards acceptance. And if you reject red pill, then don’t even bother showing up here.

  69. “That’s been going for months. At least one of them used to be “a” and the other “A.” Now they’re both wearing the same Halloween costume.”

    I’m shocked to learned that female observation and subcommunication has been going on here for months. In a submissive way. Lol: Anon-ing.

    Subtle ways of female sub-communication: It’s a thing.

  70. Relevant to my earlier comment, the South London Being A Man festival (BAM) is a feminist conference where women give men permission to peacefully assemble and explore the masculine identity that mommy will approve of:

  71. stuffinbox
    Interesting reads,the two things both authors fail to recognize is there never was an egalitarian utopia and white men didn’t invent slavery

    Yup.
    Cochrane pointed out that just because male-DNA didn’t survive from 8,000 years ago doesn’t mean it faded out then, there’s plenty of other times for it to fade. But the Dark Triad works on women for a reason. “Rape” fantasies exist for a reason, they don’t just pop out of nowhere.
    Fitness testing bubbling up from a woman’s hindbrain isn’t an accident. It may be vestigal, but it isn’t an accident.

  72. @AR

    A native american friend was taught his native culture by the old men.One of the rituals involved a sacred club used to publicly bash in the head of an unruly slave in a ritual to keep order save food and show alpha.

    We know who’s dna is being passed on in this instance.

  73. Dear Rollo, off- topic but I’ve read a great deal of your work and your ideas have helped codify my previous confusion about why I was having or not having success with females. Thank You! I’m curious about how you would break-down a marriage of high-school sweethearts or just people who went to HS together(not sure they dated since HS in every case). I graduated 20 years ago but I know people like this. Did they both abandon their strategies? Is it traditionalism, true love or laziness? I haven’t been able to define it. If you covered this in an article I missed just point me at it. I appreciate what you are doing immensely.

  74. @anon
    December 9, 2016 at 7:31 pm

    “I believe someone told Liz to stop posting here so she switched to anon (i THINK that was the reason, not sure.) And I get banned by Rollo if I post my name.”

    She only drinks coffee at midnight, when the moment is not
    Right, her timing is quite unusual
    You see her confidence is tragic, but her intuition magic
    And the shape of her body unusual

    Meet Virgina (nee, Em-iley) I can’t wait to
    Meet Virginia, yeah e yeah hey hey hey *Emi-ley)

    Well she wants to be the queen and
    Then she thinks about her scene
    Well she wants to live her life
    Then she thinks about her life
    Pulls her hair back as she screams
    I don’t really wanna be the queen
    I, I don’t really wanna be the queen
    I, I don’t really wanna be the queen
    I, I don’t really wanna live this

    Sneaky. And predictable.

  75. @flandersfleming

    If Rollo were to question you further, I dare say he would question “What is your question of how I can help you?”

    Rather than questioning third party issues. Who the fuck knows how to help those off in the distance? What are you going to do about yourself? What issue do you have with those early (sweetheart) adopters? What problems do they present for you? Are you annoyed by them, or do they just frustrate you because they are, or are not working?

  76. Re: Meet Vagina Virginia:

    This song was inspired at least partially by one of Pat Monahan’s friends, who according to Pat, would make up all these stories about stuff that Pat supposedly did. Pat says the song isn’t supposed to be about one woman, but rather, several people.

    Otherwise known as archetypes.

  77. BTW,

    Are you actually advancing your Real Girl Power knowledge in the Philosophy Studies Realm?

    That shit takes thinking outside (of the Main Stream Media) box. Good luck with that.

  78. I don’t actually have a problem with you. At all.

    I think you are as cute as my daughter’s best girlfriends.

    I know the host of the blog you are posting on thinks you are a fucking liar.

    But hey Soul Sister, you actually have a one track mind that doesn’t resonate with the rational male. You prove the red pill case. You are opportunistic as all get out and I wouldn’t take you fishing.

    Mind you some of us don’t diss-love women. Liz actually, as she has reporte,d has a healthy respect for her husband. You actually don’t treat men otherwise less than opportunitically. I as reported, have a healthy respect for my wife, her registered nurse skills and all putting her mother and father into their graves with ultimate respect and her raising our children with ultimate motherhood skills.

    Womanhood skills. And respect for manhood skills are respected. Try it.

  79. “If man is to survive, he will have learned to take a delight in the essential differences between men and between cultures. He will learn that differences in ideas and attitudes are a delight, part of life’s exciting variety, not something to fear.”
    ― Gene Roddenberry

    “It is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will not reach our ultimate goal. The effort itself yields its own reward.”

    “Time is the fire in which we burn.”
    Broke passed the primal and connected politely than broke passed the culture and spoke fiercely.

    “Reality is incredibly larger, infinitely more exciting, than the flesh and blood vehicle we travel in here. If you read science fiction, the more you read it the more you realize that you and the universe are part of the same thing. Science knows still practically nothing about the real nature of matter, energy, dimension, or time; and even less about those remarkable things called life and thought. But whatever the meaning and purpose of this universe, you are a legitimate part of it. And since you are part of the all that is, part of its purpose, there is more to you than just this brief speck of existence. You
    are just a visitor here in this time and this place, a traveler through it.”

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