Game Works

game_works

Game, for lack of a better word, is good. Game is right. Game works.

After listening to myself on this weekend’s interview with Christian McQueen and Dagonet I realized that as I became more comfortable with the interview I found myself verbally ‘dialoging’ in much the same way that I scribble down fragments of ideas in my notebook or when I’m fleshing out a draft for some topic I’m considering in-post.

It’s always been a strange sensation for me to hear myself speak. Even when I record a voice message on my iPhone it always makes me self-conscious to listen to the message play back. However, as I was in the midst of listening to myself on the show I had the same familiar internal conversation and I picked up on a thought I had planned to write about, but I think it slipped my mind until now.

Towards the middle of our conversation I considered a few things about the benefits of Game, and it made me think about how Game has progressed to what it is today. One of the chapters in The Rational Male I specifically wrote for the book – and later converted to a blog post – was called The Evolution of Game. I added this as an effort to help uninitiated men have a better grasp of just what Game really is.

There’s been a lot of redefining of exactly what Game is over the past 12-13 years, but I’ve always considered Game an abstract term for a much larger concept.

Naturally, critics predisposed to a blue pill worldview want to portray “those red pill game guys” as throwbacks to the PUA set of the early 2000’s. This is a very shortsighted evaluation, usually proffered by guys ego-invested in a blue pill mindset and in need of easy definitions and buzz words to ridicule and move onto the next distraction.

Facing red pill truths is uncomfortable, and I understand the need to casually pass them off for fear of really having to critically reconsider ego-investments; that type of insight requires either real depth of character or an experience traumatic enough to shake one from beliefs that, in essence, make up part of their personality.

Both require a concentrated effort to learn from, and honestly, most people are too lethargic to consider red pill truths when there are more entertaining distraction to inure themselves with.

It’s just this lethargy that prevents them from understanding that Game and red pill awareness have matured far beyond the PUAs techniques of the past. Neil Strauss published The Game in 2003 – that’s 15 years since Mystery was wearing top hats and elevator boots.

Those caricatures may be comforting to laugh at, but in fifteen years the developed techniques and observations Game practitioners failed and succeeded with fed into what we would eventually come to understand as red pill awareness today.

Even some well meaning red pill Men may want to self-affirmingly ridicule the PUAs of the past and present, but if you have embraced a red pill awareness today, at least partially, you have these Men to thank for risking rejection and practicing techniques that laid a foundation for contemporary red pill awareness.

Now, imagine for a moment that, today, all men had to build on was the antiseptic studies and controlled experiments of a social science academia firmly steeped in a feminine-primary, feminine-correct social context. Imagine what red pill awareness would be if not for the guys in the field doing ‘experiments’. Imagine what marriage counselors and ‘relationship experts’ would (and honestly, still) advise men to do in order to change their lives with an understanding based solely on what a feminine- primary, controlled social science approved of.

Only the PUAs of then and now have had the unfettered freedom to perform in-field social experiments, and relate their collected evidence and observations with other men; the types of which social science has been forbidden from due either to ethical considerations or by feminine-primary social conventions.

Game does not Occur in a Vacuum

Recently the comment threads here have had a tendency to devolve into a “looks are all that matters so why bother learning Game?” line of reasoning. The commentariat can lean towards go-your-own-way defeatism, then to resolving to live in the gym until one inspire female arousal, or, to appeals to positive confidence.

And while I have always recognized – more than most other manosphere bloggers if I dare – the obvious truth that Looks are a prime requisite for arousal (and attraction), I also recognize an effort to discredit Game and red pill awareness by absolutes, extremes and absurdities.

For anyone with the sense that Game and red pill awareness is valueless and superfluous in the face of women’s primary drive for physical arousal, I suggest you read Advocatus Diaboli’s treatise on how to pragmatically use escorts (either that or relocate to the state of Nevada). Honestly, I hold no disapproval for men who feel this is the best way to satisfy their need for sex and female contact. It may indeed be your best option under the current social environment.

For anyone else, I think it’s very important to look at the benefits of Game both in an intergender and interpersonal context. If you consider yourself “red pill” (another useful, but abstract term) Game has benefitted you – because it was the early trials and errors of Game that led to red pill principles we understand now.

If you have even a cursory grasp of how women’s biology and menstrual cycle influences ovulatory shift behaviors in mate preferences and you’ve altered your perception of women, Game has benefitted you.

If you understand the basics of feminine hypergamy and the sexual strategies women use to optimize their mate selection, and then changed your intergender tact as a result of it, Game has benefitted you.

If you’ve internalized the core psychological principles underlying women’s perceptions of Amused Mastery, Command Presence, Agree & Amplify, Cocky & Funny, Social Proof, Dread and even Chick Crack, whether you’ve applied them or not, Game has expanded your consciousness of women’s behaviors and their motivators.

If you’ve had the insight to understand your blue pill conditioning, the reasons for your predispositions towards a Savior Schema, feminine identifying, why a LJBF is a rejection, why Beta Game comes naturally to men but is self defeating, or why SMV accrues and decays over the course of a lifetime, Game and the red pill have benefitted you.

If you’ve used or modified any of these principles to better your marriage, your dealings with co-workers, your daughter, mother or even your best friend’s domineering wife, you’ve benefitted from Game.

If you’ve saved or bettered another man’s life, or bettered his intergender relationships, you’ve both benefitted from Game.

I could go on, but if you honestly believe that women’s primary physical arousal cues trump any value that Game or red pill awareness really has, then you’re wasting your time here reading and commenting on what I have to offer. You’d be better served by focusing all your attentions to lifting in the gym and shifting your career goals toward a job that is physically demanding and keeps you at your physical best.

Ironically, getting in shape is also an aspect of Game. Even if your belief is “Looks are everything”, but yet your understanding of this comes as a result of your red pill awareness of the Alpha Fucks side of hypergamy, Game has benefitted you.

Just a familiarity with Game concepts, whether you accept them or not, still influence your perception of women and the motivations behind their behaviors.

Red pill awareness challenges feminine-primary thinking. Why do you think the mass dissemination of red pill awareness is so threatening to the Feminine Imperative?

Doing Something

What is the manosphere actually ‘doing’?

This is the first critique I expect from from a poor debate opponent – disqualifying the strength or validity of a premise by the ‘success’ or lack thereof of a proponent’s efforts to enact or convince others of that premise.

By this logic, one could make the case that the MRM is an utter failure, but it still doesn’t mean they aren’t correct in their efforts.

As I mentioned on the Christian McQueen Show, I’m of a bottom up, or an inside – out mind when it comes to enacting red pill ‘change. The manosphere is raising awareness and this needs time (maybe even a generation) to mature into personal consciousness and then popular consciousness.

It’s difficult to quantify the ‘results’ of the manosphere, red pill awareness and Game because its effects are individually subjective at this stage. There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t receive an email, a forum/blog comment or a tweet about how my book or what I’ve written on the blog has changed (or literally saved) a man’s life.

That’s not meant to gloss myself, but rather to illustrate a point – the red pill (and Game) is doing something, it’s changing minds and lives. It’s not rallying men in the streets and waving banners, nor is it effecting legal or social policy (yet), but it’s making men aware of their condition and changing their beliefs.

No hate for what the MRM is doing, I recognize the intent and applaud it, but thus far it’s been impotent in effecting “real change in policy”, while red pill awareness has done more for men individually. For all of the MRM’s efforts to enact public change, all it takes is one White Knight in a position of authority to say “GTFO you misogynist creeps!” Now imagine in the future a man who’s red pill aware in a position to effect that policy.

Real change isn’t going to happen directly it’s going to happen indirectly, on a man by man basis. And not just publicly but personally.

That change will happen in men’s relationships with their wives, daughters and sons. That change may simply be a form of ‘civil disobedience’ in not marrying at all, or holding women accountable for their open embrace of hypergamy and their AFBB sexual strategy and only marrying / supporting women who make an effort to control their hypergamy.

That change will happen in the workplace and hiring practices. That change will filter into men’s better understanding as the red pill spreads and men reassume some of the social frame control the Feminine Imperative unilaterally legislates and provide to women now.

The red pill is ‘doing’ something, it’s planting the seeds for a greater shift in gender power with every man who becomes aware of how women ‘are’ and what they will predictably do.

158 comments

  1. Wow!
    Let me tell something. If I hadn’t stumbled across the creepy looking cover titled “Rules of the Game” by Neil Strauss back in 2009 when I was hell bent on changing my life by either joining a rock band and taking drugs everyday or something of the like. The first few pages blew my mind. It talked about social exercises like talking to 3 girls in public about something. Lot of such missions basically, with the promise that if you do it all you will live the life of your dreams, I bought the book straight away though till that point in my life I never bought a book that expensive(imported version) nor applied the theory in public situations.
    That day marked a turning point in my life where I started coming in grips with the reality that I really indeed held the power to change my life.

    If not for that fateful day I wonder what would my fate had turn out to be. Maybe a miserable out of shape alcaholic beta being bossed around by a fat wife with mountains of debt and contemplating suicide or the like ? Maybe..

    I like the way the Game theory has been evolving since then. As Krauser said, the red pill literature available today surpasses all scientific mainstream literature on male female dynamics by light years. Had men to solely depend on those meterial to navigate the modern dating and relationship landscape, soon enough the male species would become extinct.

  2. The bottom line is that all aspects of game work. I have gone from having “oneitis” and not knowing how to fix our relationship to spinning six plates and sleeping with at least two per day while getting my ex back. She knows about the others and wouldn’t dare to say anything about it. I wouldn’t dream that this level of game was possible for me, but after that traumatic experience of unplugging I can write my own ticket. My advice: grow a beard, it’s free…get in the gym, watch your diet, it’s free, ride a motor cycle, get a new wardrobe (fitted shirts are $4 at Forever 21 and jeans are $20 at Belk) and read these damn post…they are priceless! I’m an unemployed graduate student so what’s your excuse?

  3. I disagree.

    ‘Game’ is largely a myth – a popular fiction synthesized to embellish male success with a basis in real quantities of evolutionary value. Trivial observations that seemingly confirm ‘game’, are observing nothing more than spurious correlations. The quest for a practically learned skill that can ‘bend’ female choice is a fool’s errand, because in order for evolution to work opportunistically, it must cull (in particular) male frequencies every generation.

    So, a problem occurs in the observation of ‘naturals’ (an accepted premise of game convention) – demonstrating game as a behavioral phenomenon of ‘handicapping’ load (via the handicap principle), rather than some cryptic fitness indicator.

    To elaborate – in applying the ‘handicap principle’, it tells us that those whose success threshold is lower in terms of ‘game’, are displaying greater indications of genetic fitness, given that this greater effort will allude to a fitness handicap. This is because fitness signals have evolved to be energetically costly to display, where the quality of signals are handicap limited – where these handicaps can be manifest through differentials in observable ‘effort’ (or any other kind of relative energetic liability). What game really is, is a display of sexual confidence – which is (conveniently) circular to its justification (i.e. those who are justifiably confident of continued future success, need expend less effort – in terms of handicapping – in trying to embellish themselves through ‘game’).

    But, since game is not a ‘skill/trait’, liable to be adaptive, but rather a system of knowledge, the question is not whether or not it ‘works’ so much as which parts of this system are justified, and which parts are spurious. An adaptive signal must honestly convey quality. For a signal to be a valid indicator of male quality at equilibrium, a reliable relation between the signaler’s quality and the signal strength must persist.

    (Consider: It assumes that individuals of the choosing sex (females) with a sensory bias non-adaptively applied to mate choice pay a cost for it, and hence, have lower reproductive success than those who are “resistant” to the bias. Both men and women discriminate the desirability of potential mates mainly on the basis of physical qualities. Any preferred feature has to be correlated with quality prior to their evolution as signals. Again, honest signaling of quality can evolve through either benefits that directly enhance reproductive success or genetic benefits passed on to offspring. )

    Female preferences (i.e. choice bias for sexier guys) co-evolve with male sexual signals (i.e. male good genes); it makes no sense that some behavioral techniques (e.g. neuro-linguistic programming) had ever been developed to exploit non-existing female “sensory bias”.

    The evolution of female preference must be promoted by genetic co-variance. And selection for the male sexual trait will cause a proportionate increase in female preference and both traits will increase together in a runaway.

    As I said, “Game” would be a sort of knowledge system, not a phenotypic trait onto which directional sexual selection can act. Moreover, selection on phenotypes will have no evolutionary consequence if the traits do not genetically covary with fitness. The nature of this genetic covariance determines if phenotypes will evolve directionally or whether they reside at an evolutionary optimum.

  4. I’ve mentioned before that I first came across the blog from YT’s Stardusk mentioning your Warbrides piece. Both Stardusk and Bar Bar of YT share your concepts of “a bottom up, or an inside – out mind when it comes to enacting red pill ‘change. The manosphere is raising awareness and this needs time (maybe even a generation) to mature into personal consciousness and then popular consciousness.” I’ve followed both of these YT users closely for years and yes they are critical of game/PUA and of the MRM but they both at least share this bottom up concept with you. Men learning red pill knowledge and sharing it, discussing it and applying it in his life as he makes more men red pill aware. I hope that all the contributors to the manosphere continue sowing seeds until all we see is future generations of men avoiding marriage along with all the usual feminine imperative traps.

    To me this isn’t just knowledge that’s being passed around; its a key to the fence that holds us like plow pulling horses on the farmer’s field. Once a man is red pill aware he can pick and choose how much work he wants to do on any given nation’s farm if any at all. He can choose exactly how free and unencumbered he wants his life to be. Of course we will always have to deal with the “burden of performance” but at least if a man chooses to be free of societies predetermined roles for him… he can be.

    Great interview BTW; hope you do more.

  5. Game is also a mindset. This is a key learning for me in my own evolution and transition. The techniques and Red Pill ideas are crucial, but they can only be sustained in a persona that is confident.

    The hardest thing is alignment. Understanding hypergamy has been both enlightening to be able to after any girl I fancy. But it also instilled some fear. It’s that fear that bothers me. How do you care without being overly invested or outcome dependant is the newest challenge.

  6. If game and by extension red pill knowledge, if all it does is “cure” blue pill failure, then in practical terms I think it works. We can debate all day long about what precisely “game” is or why it works but this doesn’t change the fact that time and time again, men are able to learn it, what ever “it” is and to apply it and to succeed at what they wish to. Namely they are able to undo whatever damage “blue pill” living has done and get more of what they want with far less pain and suffering in their lives.

    Who gives a fuck if it offers “evolutionary success” in the strict sense of the concept? The Chickas don’t care, and if I get laid more and am a far happier guy who is happier with myself and my life. I am comfortable not really giving a shit what precisely is behind the green curtain.

    OK, so game is a knowledge system, good enough for me!

  7. Ah Rollo, for years I have been an avid reader of the manosphere usually through forums as my poison and rationalmale as my primary blog read, and I have to say your podcast interview brought me one and a half hours of tranquility.

    I’m a 20 year old male who has been exposed to the manosphere for the past 5 years or so, and I have to say that a man can read all day about what he should do with women; how he should act, what he should say and all of that good shit. However all of this is nothing but external knowledge to him, it is not until he faces his own heart shifting failure with a woman that he finally internalizes all of this information and finally is able to identify the weakness of his ingrained blue pill strategy.

    I feel as if I now know myself in a capacity that I’m able to attribute an inner zen, this is where I feel true understanding of the red pill, its above a level of understanding women for your personal benefit; but rather understanding yourself and women to a level of where there are no nasty surprises.

    Game has been a rather useful method of aggregating the empirical experiences that men have had in regard to strategy and success with women, it allows for men to understand what actually works within inter-gender relations and how to be prepared.

    I just want to thank you Rollo for giving all us men a pure aggregation of knowledge, where men can understand that they are not helpless or alone in the world; especially when being told by society that no matter what an ex-women does will be say is our fault, so that we can truly pull back the wool from over our eyes and get back the happiness we all deserve.

  8. I don’t know why people deny that game doesn’t work especially when we see puas getting laid to the level of envy(not all of them are lying)
    I have seen the effects of game on women especially of my relatives and sisters even though there is no sexual tension involved so its not only useful in sexual ways as Rollo metions
    Also I am definetly the least exp. here but I have noticed the changes after the red pill mindset and I cant deny
    while some men here deny game’s utility there are women using there feminine game i.e. make up dressing,reading mens mind it works for them and ours surely works for us only it require more input
    great article Sir @Rollo Tomassi

  9. @ Siirtyrion at 2:54. Perhaps I misunderstand, but my take on the content of RM is that it restructures the narrative – the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. The narrative is the change, with the unintended consequence of getting more action with the ladies. I respectfully submit that your argument puts the cart before the horse.

  10. Understanding intergender relations helps a man prioritize his life and cures any misconceptions about the nature of attraction. This understanding lends a congruence to his everyday life and he can decide what kind of women (if any) and people in general, he wants in his life. There is no silver bullet to make one happy, but for a man who is determined to be happy, Game provides a basic understanding of what he can expect from women. The rest is up to the man.

  11. “Now, imagine for a moment that, today, all men had to build on was the antiseptic studies and controlled experiments of a social science academia firmly steeped in a feminine-primary, feminine-correct social context. Imagine what red pill awareness would be if not for the guys in the field doing ‘experiments’. Imagine what marriage counselors and ‘relationship experts’ would (and honestly, still) advise men to do in order to change their lives with an understanding based solely on what a feminine- primary, controlled social science approved of.”

    No need to imagine, this was called the 1980’s…

  12. It should be interesting when we hit that tipping point, and I think we are close. It does appear that Feminism has reached the point of “Jumpng the shark” and blown its wad. Much of what feminism is now demanding, eg. “Rape Stare” and “Fat Acceptance” would have been a satirical Monty Python skit 30 years ago.

    In regards to game, yes it works. I’ve a friend who is who is the poster boy of game, he has charisma and confidence that’s off the charts. He had a on and off relationship that he just ended and now has five women 25-45 texting him and using every trick in the bag to try and hook up with him….I might add he’s 48 and a double amputee (Leg & Arm) .

  13. @Siirtyrion – you don’t understand evolution. Your entire post is premised on the idea that evolution works on individuals and that moreover evolution has some sort of goal. It doesn’t and doesn’t.

    Women use “costly signals” as well (“costly” signals of fertility such as makeup, high heels, breast implants/lifts, etc.); but these aren’t “costly” in an evolutionary context. Costly means that your’e sacrificing individual well-being (e.g., easier to spot by predators) to attract the attention of the opposite sex for mating opportunities.

    Because human beings have no natural predators in our current environment, there is no selection going on for humanity; there’s nothing “costly” about any of our signals. The thing that most examples of evolution that are supplied in popular media don’t point out is that we (individual organisms) are behavior executors, not fitness maximizers. Fitness maximization happens on the population level, not at the individual organism level. And fitness isn’t some free-floating Platonic “good”. Fitness is always in the context of a certain environment. Since human beings modify our environments, there can be no “fitness” in the context of modern humans.

  14. Krauser’s comment strikes me as much like what you hear from people promoting homeopathy – ‘all that sciencey stuff doesn’t matter, what we non-scientists all tell ourselves and each other is all that matters’. Really? Krauser’s own success rate is super low, hundreds of approaches a few hits, same with Roosh. How is that data so impressive? How does he know – for example – that if he just did that many approaches before “game” that he wouldn’t have had the same success (failure) rate? He never made that volume of approaches before game. You see in a real sscientific experiment, there is always that control in place to protect from biases leeching in. While it’s true that much social science in this area is corrupted by LGBT social construction nonsense, which is highly politicized, there is also a ton of work in social science and other relevant scientific fields where it is not. Taking an anti-science approach signals something very negative.

    I’m afraid that I have to agree with @Siirtyrion. One of the subtle points he’s trying to get across to us is how signaling and selection actually work between men and women. Trying harder or being overconfident is in itself a signal of a lack of fitness. If you aren’t successful with women, it’s impossible to project real confidence to women. Game can teach you not to give a shit as much and to not personalize/internalize rejections, but in fact it will not change your SMV. His point about how relaxed a “natural” is about all this because he knows that many women want him is something we should really ponder.

    But here’s where I think game makes a huge difference for me, and really it’s about knowledge mostly. Let me lay out a few of the aspects of my approach to the world that have been changed by game.

    I truly had a Blue Pill mindset before game in that my “failure” with my marriage and eventually my daughter discarding me when I ran out of money (after giving her 81k for college and spending over 400k raising her) were all about me and what I was lacking. At some basic level I had internalized the idea that my only real value in this world was wrt what I could be as a father, husband, provider, worker etc. And it was a non-stop competition that I was always falling short in, and women were always around to tear me down and criticize me if I wasn’t doing so. My locus of control and self-esteem were inexorably tied to this. It was only out of a sense of hopelessness and desperation that I stumbled into the manosphere and began to change my mindset.

    Now? I could give a shit about whether I’m a good Dad to my ungrateful daughter anymore (26 now – 24 years of being a “good Dad” were quite enough for me). I don’t care if my sisters (who I was a father figure to for decades) like or respect me anymore. My exwife? She already married another guy and destroyed him and is onto the third one now – tell me I didn’t dodge a bullet by getting away from her early. Now, I value my happiness, my needs and my priorities first and last. Simply put, I’ve rejected gynocentric cultural ideas like chivalry, courtly love and romance utterly as they don’t serve me at all – and never did. In fact, they set me up to be a chump.

    This has nothing to do with getting laid more. But interestingly, as Christian McQueen says roughly, “Women forgive me for being a dick occasionally but they will never forgive me for being a pussy”. Very true and surprising what I can actually get away with, lol. The result? All my relationships are now reciprocal. If I’m not getting what I want, I’m gone. Period. Don’t expect me to hold the door for you, ladies, unless you are sucking my dick on a regular basis. You want equality? You got it. Put yet another way? If was on the Titanic today I would shove a woman overboard to get a seat on one of those lifeboats as my life is more important than anyone else’s. Interestingly, this alone has me understand women better as they are naturally more self-involved and self-important. I’m just being as selfish as any woman is now.

    As for my interactions with women, now I understand them more. I get how they are selecting and indicating interest. I get what turns them on much more and am entirely more relaxed about it. But there is an even more profound shift in how I approach women. For the longest time I internalized the “good man” myth and rejected the idea that women were operating strongly out of sexual attraction. I know, that sounds crazy, but that’s how it was for me. I actually thought that women were “above” all that in some bizarre way – even though on another level of my awareness I knew they weren’t. So I never optimized my attractiveness to the degree I could and in fact thought that was less important.

    In my case, I’m fortunate that I was quite good looking when younger so I had pretty good relative success with women (lots of failure but a lot more success than most men). But I never realized that women were mostly reacting to my looks. I thought they were reacting to my ‘good guyness’. Lol. I mean, what an idiot I was. I also didn’t bother to optimize my looks. Even when I was working out and fit, I concentrated on fitness for activities as I thought that buffing up for muscle bulk was vain and superficial. The style of my workouts and the trainers/methods I used all reflected that. Now? I’m working out in a way that is increasing my muscularity and upper body size in a way that I didn’t think was possible – and I love it.

    Most importantly? I’m now not angry about any of it anymore. The simple truth is this. Women choose. Mammals have a 500 million year history of this (of course there is variation but that doesn’t change the fact that women choose). Men compete for mating and female partnerships. Women were not able to make their choices based on their sexual desires nearly as much in the past as they are today. SiirTyrion importantly points out that this has lead to runaway selection based on looks and that is important for me to understand. For example, when I’m in NYC or other areas with a huge imbalance of women to men, and there is an abundance of beautiful hot women who mostly ignored the fatter, older looking Glenn (less and less so each day…) I get why. They are all competing so viciously in a DeathMatch kind of beauty contest. You can see it written on their faces – so many uptight, worried, serious, women attending to every aspect of their appearance so intensely. I get it now. I see what I never saw before.

    It’s all okay with me. What I can do about it all is actually quite limited. I can improve my appearance, and let me stop there for a second. Today, one can do a huge amount about their appearance. I happen to have a boyish, youthful face and most of my hair. I finally listened to the woman who cuts my hair and let her do the “take the grey out” dye job, as I’m more grey than brown haired now and you know what? It takes 10 years off me and looks completely natural. Not anyone who knows me even noticed it directly but instead just tell me how great I look. Someone I saw the other day was comparing me to another 52 year old we both know and she told me I look 20 years younger than him (he is aging very badly, you can see it – he’s just given up on life). I can easily pass for 40 now. As the weight comes off and my upper body grows (power lifting is amazing) my SMV is increasing. That’s real, it makes a difference. But I’m using what I’ve got too, and not every man has my natural good looks. But even then, it’s an uphill climb and i’m in the 9th inning of playing this game, I”m not kidding myself. I just want to bang as many hotties as I can before I have no more chances. I used to never even be able to admit that was what I wanted before the Red Pill.

    I also am much better with women now because they can sense that any individual women is not that important to me. Yes, I do want to get laid regularly and have some female company at times, but truthfully, my “oneitis” has been killed. Many women can fill that role for me and if the one in front of me isn’t up for it, I just “next” them. So, in this way I project a more relaxed, fun vibe. I absolutely get more flirting than ever etc and seem to be able to create a sexual atmosphere much more readily.

    So, in this way game really works for me. But to think that 30 lb overweight, grey haired, dejected 52 yr old Glenn who looks 52 was going to get more pussy from learning “game” is absurd. And what is sad about this is that men who have low SMV due to factors they can’t influence really are not going to know the pleasure of having a woman truly, hotly desire them. Life is unfair. You probably are never going to fly in a private jet or eat at Jean Georges either. To be a man is to see the world for what it is and act accordingly. I leave the magical thinking to women now and laugh often (inside) at the delusions they mostly live in.

    I’m no longer deluded and it changes everything for me.

  15. @ AlphaBeta – N.B. SiirTyrion is a developmental biologist at MIT. I think he understands evolution quite well, lol. Can’t wait for your reply to AlphaBeta’s points, Siir.

  16. All this talk about genetic fitness has always been a bit confusing to me. Other than looks, there is no secret genetic quality detector that woman could possibly. The idea that the “best” genes are selected is putting the cart before the horse. Different genetic traits survived and developed as an adaptation to different environments. What makes the “best genes” really depends on environment and needs.
    The myth that women can somehow sense the best genes is alot like the blue pill myth of women having some magical intuition. They don’t.
    I’m also noticing that people saying that game doesn’t work- and in its most cheeseball sense, I get that. But then people are telling about how they changed their lives and priorities and behaviors and now are happier, live better lives and have better interaction with women.. Sounds to me like game did exactly help them, not just in getting laid, but everything else as well.So I’m not even sure what the debate is all about at this point.
    Game is valuable information that helps you achieve your goals.. especially concerning women. what more can anything possibly be?
    If you think REd Pill or Game is BS because your not getting laid on demand or being chased by supermodels, then the real problem is that you were gullible to think anything would do that for anyone. I used to laugh every time I saw an ad for some PUA artist saying they had the secerts that will let you lay any woman you wanted- I knew that was simply bs advertisement to get the 16 yr olds to buy. If you bought that line then let me tell you about this program I have for sale that guarantees you’ll be a millionaire in 6 months……

  17. Glenn, the problem is human evolution is no longer determined by the law of the jungle, modern human interaction with protection from any form of serious predation is new territory.

    The most basic premise of RP theory is about all round self improvement, and ” Watch what they do, not what they say”, which from the standpoint of my own life as a 59 year old male and many others is correct.

    It was just a couple of years ago experts like SirTyrion were stating that based on their surveys of what women wanted, men in aprons changing diapers were going to be the hot ticket in sexual attraction…which turned out to be very wrong.

  18. @ Glenn

    Most importantly? I’m now not angry about any of it anymore.

    That phrase shows the way to anybody that wants to unplug. To be successful, you don’t need to know every single detail of “Game” but there are main ideas that you must really accept if you want to grow confidence and inner peace.

  19. Simple questions: Has your basic understanding and general perception of women changed as a result of your knowledge of hypergamy, AFBB and the biological motivators of ovulatory shift?

    Are you better off for it now that you can adjust your own behaviors and interactions with women you’d want to have a short or long term mating/pairing with according to those new expectations?

    Are you in a better informed position to optimize your own sexual strategies and / or life plans as a result of that knowledge?

    If you answered yes to any of these, Game / Red Pill awareness has had a positive impact on your life.

    Even Siirtyrion’s absolutist, hard-evolution disagreements still contribute to a Game knowledge-base that aids men (however they choose to apply it) in modifying their perceptions, behaviors and mindsets in order to optimize their own sexual strategies. Even his disagreements still confirm the principle of Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks and women’s pluralistic sexual strategies.

  20. Glenn’s post is a great example of the Red Pill. Live life for you and for the moment. You will attract people who want to be in it. Never, ever make any person, not even your children, your life purpose. The second you do that, you lose the ability to lead. Focus on yourself, your goals, strength, etc…..the willing followers will break down doors to be with you.

  21. Game definitely works. What are these people talking about? Game works in a pickup. Game works in a LTR or marriage because your wife is still a woman. Game is about adopting a set of behaviors, attitudes, and beliefs that maximize your attraction to woman.

    Unless you have already maximized your behaviors, attitudes, and beliefs, then game will help you. For guys like me with a high status job who already lift weights and look pretty good but who always failed miserably with women (including my own wife) a lack of game is THE problem. Fixing it with game is THE solution.

  22. Two years ago I was plugged-in and locked-in, and on the emotional going-out-of-business curve that a blue pill man rides. Drafthorse illusions only amuse the gods, who therefore torture him for sport. Sorta like what Rosamund Pike does to the clueless Affleck in Gone Girl.

    Applications of Game, however defined, inform daily life and just today are protecting me from something I never would have seen two years ago — a girl who friend-zoned me now lane-changing and suddenly finding me more attractive — as well as a married woman friend who appears to be in an hypergamous fever. Neither situation would have made any — ANY — sense to me two years ago. I would have leapt into the arms of the AFBB girl, and I would have blown out (unkindly) the attentions of the other.

  23. I have an experience with red-pill and Game that, I think, illustrates the difference Game can make, or not, if you chose to ignore it.
    I first came to Game a few years ago- maybe 3 yrs- at the time I was 40 and moved to a new city. I immediately started dating and applying Game concepts- although very sloppily and half heartedly because I was still blue pill enough to think NAWALT.
    As I got more comfortable with the inner game changes in myself, a woman I had a crush on at work suddenly started acting attracted to me. Smart, pretty, very down to earth and in many ways sweet girl. I developed one-itis. Now, at this point I knew what Game had to say and how to proceed, and I remember making a CONSCIOUS decision to abandon Game and give “just being the real me” one last try.
    You can imagine the rest- quickly we went from fun/sex/her adoring me and feeling good to bitter/angry/conflicted bullshit leading all the way to an attempted LJBF at which point I ejected.
    The entire time of this relationship, which lasted a year I was literally of two minds.. one was the mind of BP and the other RP. I had consciously chosen to follow my BP training, but I was analyzing and interpreting what was happening in RP awareness.. It was illuminating. Whenever I Gamed her she responded well and things went good, son as I would drop Game and act BP it would soon lead to acrimony.
    Needless to say, I am sure she was confused as hell too, poor thing. Here she had a guy who one minute “got it” and next minute didn’t. By the time it ended I finally knew, in my heart, that Game was truth and that it worked and helped and that my BP training was the cause of my lifelong ability to attract beautiful, sexy women and soon after falling for them or being in a relationship with them, it falling apart.
    Recently Rollo quoted me in “abandoning hope” and I said I finally got it.. and this was why. After that relationship my eyes had opened to Game and RP but I didn’t want to abandon hope- and that is why I decided to not “game her”- because I still had hope. In many ways that was the final piece I needed to kill my BP former self once and for all.
    Game doesn’t help? Bullshit, I would kill to be able to go back to my old self of twenty years ago and teach him Game, to liberate him.. How much happier my old self would have been and how much better off I would be now.

  24. @ BuenaVista – Careful about the lane changing friendzoner. I had a woman who tried to friendzone me – which I rejected. We were still friends after she turned down my advances, but on my terms and I think this drove her crazy. I dated other women and never pined away for her or tried to win her over. Fyi, I now know I was her backup Beta provider plan. She had been riding the alpha cock carousel for almost 20 years, in NYC, so she was fucked in the head seriously, but she was fun, went to clubs I didn’t know about, went to and threw great parties, so I enjoyed our friendship and never let her get in my head. I never do friendzoning, and in fact tell women outright who say “let’s be friends” – “I have plenty of friends already.”

    After 2-3 years I guess she figured since friendzoning didn’t work she would up the game and initiated a romantic relationship with me in a bizarre way and fucked with my head for about 90 days until I told her to go jump off a bridge. A women will act like they are interested to keep the backup Beta around, so be careful. Now? I think I’ll look her up in NYC as her desperation is becoming epic at this point. Every Facebook post is a paene to how amazing her life is and much fun she’s having – sort of like the false bravado of a PUA, lol. I bet she’d jump at the chance to sleep with me now if I play it right. If so, I’ll ravage her and when she’s asleep I’ll take all the money from her wallet (she soaked me pretty good in the 90 days she was fucking with my mind) and sneak out and never speak to her again. She certainly deserves to be left broke, sticky and confused…Tee hee.

  25. Rollo,

    I appreciate your feedback during the interview in regard to married men who are newly red pill aware.
    I agree that there is no magic bullet or specific action plan that men can implement; I think that your advice in regard to internalizing the core concepts you mentioned in the interview and in this post is correct, unfortunately, trying to affect positive change(based on a red pill outlook) in your blue pill marriage is a long path, as you mentioned.

    Tent Mtn wrote “…my take on the content of RM is that it restructures the narrative – the story we tell ourselves about ourselves. The narrative is the change…”

    Tomassi wrote: “Simple questions: Has your basic understanding and general perception of women changed as a result of your knowledge of hypergamy, AFBB and the biological motivators of ovulatory shift?
    Are you better off for it now that you can adjust your own behaviors and interactions with women you’d want to have a short or long term mating/pairing with according to those new expectations?
    Are you in a better informed position to optimize your own sexual strategies and / or life plans as a result of that knowledge?”

    Tent Mtn hit the nail on the head for me.
    I answer yes to all of the questions Rollo asked.

    I now no longer expect women to behave as I once did when I was blue pill; btw, they never behaved the way that I expected them to, but this dis-confirmation of my expectations didn’t change my view, I was in deep.

    Now, I approach my wife, and women in general, with a completely different world view and understanding of inter-gender relations.
    I find that my confusion, anger and frustration have decreased immensely. It all makes sense now, and I am seeing positive results.

    Thank you internet and Rational Male.

    (BTW, in regard to your mention of counselors, I had been attending marriage counseling with my wife about 5 months ago, I was still blue pill at the time, and all I received was blue pill advice which not only wasn’t helpful, it actually made things worse; and the worst part about it is that it was confirming my blue pill outlook and increasing my frustration as I was following the advice and it wasn’t working; it was all very discouraging and confusing. Now, looking back, it makes perfect sense as to why it wasn’t working. I would strongly advise against marriage counseling for most, maybe all, couples.)

  26. Looks are a part of Game. The characteristics of one’s appearance, from physical fitness, body language, and facial handsomeness to clothes, flair, and other accessories, etc. function within Game as a magnifier of other signals, and usually in that order.

    Put simply, the better you look, from fitness to body language to handsomeness, and to a lesser extent from clothes to flair (jewelry, pocket squares, etc.) to other accessories (car, house, etc.) the better people respond to your communication otherwise, both positively *and negatively*. I.e., not only do people respond better to your successful and accomplished interaction with them, they respond *less* negatively to your *less* skillful interaction with them — your mistakes and errors.

    The better you look, *the more forgiving people are of your errors and mistakes*, as well as the more attracted they are to your successes and accomplishments.

    The insurance a superior appearance provides against negative social outcomes is the primary source of the “Looks are everything, Game is irrelevant” mindset.

    Good Looks reduce negative outcomes from mistakes and errors in initiatory Game behaviors. People who claim that Looks trump Game are usually overfocused on avoiding imagined negative outcomes from initiatory Game behaviors and tend to assert that superiority of Looks as a means of self-defense against their own imaginings of disastrous social consequences.

    This is not irrational; it is only less than optimal. Rejection, and more specifically ostracization, can be so painful, and some people are so lacking in both the personal emotional and mental resilience and community connectivity needed to recover from such experiences that the prospect of them can be rationally paralytic.

    That fear is what usually drives assertions that Looks trump Game. It’s true in the limited sense that Looks are a magnifier of people’s reactions to Game behavior, but the need to assert the irrelevance of Game behaviors relative to Looks is usually a defense mechanism against the fear of negative social consequences from errors and mistakes in Game behaviors.

    This is also why the most common and consistent Red Pill self-improvement advice is to get fit, i.e. lift weights, eat clean, and sleep well: because it synergistically improves all other aspects of Game the most and best.

  27. Glenn, I don’t steal from friends, much less family friends, but thanks for the heads up. As I noted, I am grateful for the RP education so I know what the score is, more often than not, and specifically in the two romantic situations that are now in my inbox.

  28. @Agent p:

    Who gives a fuck if it offers “evolutionary success” in the strict sense of the concept? The Chickas don’t care.

    Actually, the “chickas” do care. As a matter of fact, the whole human race cares. If it didn’t, men wouldn’t be subconsciously attracted to women with qualities that display high fecundity (youth, adequate amounts of fat deposits in the thighs, breasts, rear etc…) and women wouldn’t be subconsciously attracted to males that display highly masculine features (broad shoulders, height, large brows and jaw etc…) during their ovulatory phase.

    @Tent Mtn:

    The narrative is the change, with the unintended consequence of getting more action with the ladies. I respectfully submit that your argument puts the cart before the horse.

    Actually, when you think about it, my argument is the horse. Close to everything in life revolves directly/indirectly to our innate biology.

    @AlphaBeta

    You don’t understand evolution. Your entire post is premised on the idea that evolution works on individuals and that moreover evolution has some sort of goal. It doesn’t and doesn’t.

    You misunderstand. Each species assess the goodness of genes regarding their own conspecifics and according to the good genes hypothesis. For example, attractive faces and bodies signal mate quality, and preferences for attractive individuals evolved because they enhance reproductive success, which is precisely what evolution has fine-tuned us for: reproductive success. But, in a way, evolution doesn’t have a goal per se, but it does eliminate organisms so that the only ones remaining are those best adapted to the environment. Care to guess which population is striving in our era? And no, it isn’t ‘gamers’. It’s men of attractive phenotype quality.

    There are several underlying mechanisms that cause attractiveness to correlate positively with health (and in turn, reproduction). These mechanisms include:

    • Symmetry of facial features. Noting that developmental insults tend to disrupt symmetry, Thornhill and Gangestad also proposed facial symmetry as a marker for health and fitness. Symmetric physical features have been found to be sexually attractive in several animal species (Møller, 1992; Thornhill, 1992), and human facial symmetry has been found to correlate with ratings of facial attractiveness (Grammer & Thornhill, 1994; Zebrowitz, Voinescu, & Collins, 1996).

    • Self-handicapping. The handicap model of sexual selection was developed by Zahavi (1975), who argued that some traits are honest badges of fitness because they are so costly to develop or maintain that only very fit individuals can “afford” them. Thornhill and Gangestad proposed that certain attractive facial features (e.g., prominent cheekbones) are handicaps of this sort because their development requires high levels of immune-inhibiting sex hormones.
    Moreover, you have sexual selection models where one sex can have a bias (i.e. sensory bias model) to prefer individuals of particular qualities because that bias has advantages in realms other than mating.

    Because human beings have no natural predators in our current environment, there is no selection going on for humanity; there’s nothing “costly” about any of our signals. The thing that most examples of evolution that are supplied in popular media don’t point out is that we (individual organisms) are behavior executors, not fitness maximizers. Fitness maximization happens on the population level, not at the individual organism level. And fitness isn’t some free-floating Platonic “good”. Fitness is always in the context of a certain environment. Since human beings modify our environments, there can be no “fitness” in the context of modern humans.

    The jist of what I’m saying is attractive “honest signals” are shaped by mutual interests between “signalers” and “receivers”. Both species must benefit because if they do, then this adaptive signal is *picked* by evolution and will hold as a standard for superior selection. Both parties, men and women, want good genes for themselves in order to MINIMIZE not only the potential harmful effects that their child might experience, but to also give their offspring a chance at future reproduction by MAXIMIZING the genetic gifts their parent’s bestowed upon them which they insured when they selected each other (the father and mother) discriminately. It’s all very cyclical and simple when you really get down right to it. Also, to simply say, “Oh, well that was in the past; this doesn’t apply to modern humans” is completely missing the point. Pick up a book on Evolutionary Biology and get back to me.

    @Glenn:

    Re:Krauser’s dismal percentage:

    Let me say this:
    Krauser is appealing to a lottery in order to find a receptive female equivalent, but human mating is not a stochastic or random process with a collection of random variables. There are many determinisms (mainly physical signals), depending upon what pre-conditions are considered to be determinative of an event.

    One of the subtle points he’s trying to get across to us is how signaling and selection actually work between men and women. Trying harder or being overconfident is in itself a signal of a lack of fitness. If you aren’t successful with women, it’s impossible to project real confidence to women. Game can teach you not to give a shit as much and to not personalize/internalize rejections, but in fact it will not change your SMV. His point about how relaxed a “natural” is about all this because he knows that many women want him is something we should really ponder.

    I’m glad you can see what I’m trying to say. This is (more or less) exactly what I’m trying to say.

    The simple truth is this. Women choose. Mammals have a 500 million year history of this (of course there is variation but that doesn’t change the fact that women choose). Men compete for mating and female partnerships. Women were not able to make their choices based on their sexual desires nearly as much in the past as they are today. SiirTyrion importantly points out that this has lead to runaway selection based on looks and that is important for me to understand.

    Correct! I’m glad someone else sees it, too. Take into account the following:

    Hunter-gatherers became less polygynous with increasing distance from the equator. Second wives became costlier because longer winters restricted food gathering and increased female dependence on male provisioning.

    How did this situation change with the advent of agriculture?

    In the tropics,year-round agriculture made women self-reliant in feeding themselves and their children. It thus became less costly for top ranked men to take second wives. In fact, the cost of polygyny became negative, a man stood to gain from getting as many wives as possible.

    In non-tropical environments, however, women were self-reliant at best only in summer and autumn. By early spring, the larders were bare in most farming societies. The food scarcity could be lessened in two ways:

    1) By increasing food production during the growing season and storing the produce for off-season consumption; and

    2) By domesticating animals as a year-round food source. Both strategies, however, tended to increase male participation in agriculture and thus decrease female self-reliance.

    Where women have been the most self-reliant in feeding themselves and their children and where polygyny has been the most common. Monogamous pair bond made sure most of men had wives, thus unlocking productive output out of these men who in pre-modern times would have had no incentive to be reproductive. Women, in
    turn, received a provider, a protector, and higher social status than unmarried women, who often were trapped in poverty.

    Thus, mutual sexual attraction, traditionally, has never been a requirement for long-terms relationships. Rather, sexual chemistry was(and in many cultures still is) a frequent trade-off that women were expected to make, in securing a long term mate, the reason being, that women are so selective in terms of sexual chemistry, as to render an insoluble scarcity of males to satisfy this requirement under assumptions of a monogamous mating system.

    @Hobbes:

    All this talk about genetic fitness has always been a bit confusing to me. Other than looks, there is no secret genetic quality detector that woman could possibly. The idea that the “best” genes are selected is putting the cart before the horse. Different genetic traits survived and developed as an adaptation to different environments. What makes the “best genes” really depends on environment and needs.The myth that women can somehow sense the best genes is alot like the blue pill myth of women having some magical intuition. They don’t.

    Refer to my comments responding to AlphaBeta.

    @The Ronin:

    Glenn, the problem is human evolution is no longer determined by the law of the jungle, modern human interaction with protection from any form of serious predation is new territory.

    Our biological “stamping” still abides by what we found best during “the law of the jungle”. Simply because the environment is no longer as harsh as it was in the past does not mean you will begin to see a relax in sexual pressures between the sexes. If anything, as some studies have suggested, the stressors for sexual success are more powerful than ever due to relaxed ecological pressures.

    It was just a couple of years ago experts like SirTyrion were stating that based on their surveys of what women wanted, men in aprons changing diapers were going to be the hot ticket in sexual attraction…which turned out to be very wrong.

    Woah, hold on there. My expertise is on developmental biology and not some fru fru social science. To compare my field to social sciences is to compare apples and oranges. None of my colleagues believe in that “compensatory” noise for sexual access. It’s all hard, raw, unfiltered science here baby!

    @Rollo:

    Even Siirtyrion’s absolutist, hard-evolution disagreements still contribute to a Game knowledge-base that aids men (however they choose to apply it) in modifying their perceptions, behaviors and mindsets in order to optimize their own sexual strategies. Even his disagreements still confirm the principle of Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks and women’s pluralistic sexual strategies.

    My main problem with what you stated above is exactly what “gamers” use to establish ‘game’ as a credible form of achieving high sexual success. In that, regardless of what is being said, ‘gamers’ will tend to circulate any argument in the form of, “Well, since he acknowledges this and that…it must be Game! Game is everything! It is all around us!!”

    Now, how can one win to a straw man argument like that? It is (rather conveniently) set up to place ‘game’ above everything else.

    Even his disagreements still confirm the principle of Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks and women’s pluralistic sexual strategies.

    You’ve accepted one piece of hard science, but in due time, you’ll begin to accept the rest of what I’ve placed here.

    On another note, I’m becoming more convinced that many commentators think the manosphere is ahead of its time, but I personally believe that it is always playing “catch up” with science. Reason being, science has already laid out practically everything you need to know behind the interpersonal relationships between men and women. But on the other hand, something science never could pull off was the gathering of men from various backgrounds together from which they could intelligently (well, in some blogs) discuss these topics. For that, I do applaud the manosphere.

  29. Damn, messed up on the blockquotes. Those last two paragraphs on my last post are written by me and not Rollo.

    Starting from, “You’ve accepted one piece of hard science…”

  30. @ Siirtyrion – A home run, tour de force, epic response – whatever you want to call it. It’s funny, I had already turned away from the entire manosphere except for Rollo as I continuously found that most people in it misuse and misunderstand the science behind all this. In particular, what was useful for me was listening to actual scientists discuss this stuff. Evo psychologists, biologists, anthropologists etc.

    Shocker – one can’t bootstrap their way to understanding evolutionary biology by watching a few YouTube videos and reading blog sites, lol. So, I spectate. You’ll note that my commentary is always from the POV of my personal observations and experiences cuz I realize that the science is above my head in many real ways. Many commenters and publishers in the manosphere adopt the pose of a scientist – Stardusk particularly comes to mind but there are examples on this thread of the same thing. However, they don’t have the background or in depth knowledge required to make the claims they make. They quote/cite mine and lash together a narrative that contains a half truth, a bunch of allegories and wild speculation based on complete horseshit. Men follow such poseurs to their own detriment. Stardusk is a 50 hour a week gamer who works in a warehouse in South Korea – if someone asked whether I’d rather shoot myself or be him, well, I’d have to think for a while. Yet he’s a “God” among MGTOW. Lol. Fyi, I’ve spoken to him live as when I began in the Manosphere I had a YouTube channel and took on MGTOWs pretty hard. He’s a good guy, but ultimaely he’s just another bozo on the bus. And most of what he peddles is nonsense.

    The lesson is check your sources. Rollo is different in some regards and he also tries to be true to science he finds. While he’s emphatic in the ideas he puts forward, there is an underlying humility to it all. You just know that he’s not as hung up on being right as he is understanding all this and passing along what he’s learned. Even if he’s not “right” about everything, directionally, he makes me look at this scientifically to the degree I can. And he puts up a space that is sophisticated enough to attract people like you to help us all get what is already known about this from your field. That in and of itself is incredibly valuable.

    He also made me look deep inside myself at what I actually believed was so about myself, women and the world. That inner transformation whcih Blue Pill men must go through is simply priceless.

  31. Siirtyrion
    Want proof that women cannot detect “great genes” or that all this evo stuff is hardly relevant to an individual man?
    Look around
    Short men getting married and having kids, ugly men, skinny men, men in jail, stupid men, you name it.. I walk out my door and more than half the men/women reproducing are ugly, dumb, failures or all of the above.
    So evolution selects for the best genes.. except when it doesn’t. Many species go extinct precisely because the females arent choosing the mates best capable of survival at all times.
    Regardless, who cares? really? outside some textbook, life is actually way messier than all that. Proof? look around…
    I know guys who are actually short, out of shape, even downright ugly.. yet they seem to be getting on fine. So what should I do? cry in my soup that I am not 6’2” with Brad Pit looks? Or should I look around and see that, in practice, this “genes” stuff means next to nothing?
    You want to know the greatest signs of weak genes? the guy who sits in the corner never doing and giving up hope.
    At work there is a young 24 yr old very pretty girl. I’ve seen her bf, young, handsome, strong and taller than me- way better looking than me.. Just two days ago she told me her period was about 2 weeks away- and she has been riding me and flirting and talking about getting a drink.. seems I’m the guy she’s thinking of as she enters ovulation phase. According to you this should not be happening. I am 44, 5’9”, decent looking but def not as much as her bf. She has the look of a woman who is ready t jump branches and he is defintely going to get dumped soon.. meanwhile she’s ovulating and looking for the less genetically blessed guy to bang.
    Did she miss the memo? Should I sit here and not take her up on her offer to go out Saturday night for drinks?
    Seriously all this amounts to this- looks matter and better looking people have it a bit easier in the dating game. Who needed evo-psyche for that brilliant observation?
    Just tell me this.. given your observation about female preference for looks and good genes…. what next? What should I do as someone not as good looking, not as tall and not as big as the other guys? What, in the final analysis, are you saying we should do about it?

  32. Siirtyrion, and others if applicable, I am interested in reading up on evolution as my understanding of the process is rather basic, I have had The Blind Watchmaker–by Richard Dawkins recommended to me. Would you recommend this book as well?

    _________________________________________________________

    As I just admitted, I have a basic understanding of evolutionary theory, however, I am having trouble pinning down what Siirtyrion and Rollo really disagree on. From what I gather, it seems to be a technical disagreement rather than a practical one.

    @ Siirtyrion, I don’t see how your argument addresses the efficacy of
    “Amused Mastery, Command Presence, Agree & Amplify, Cocky & Funny, Social Proof, Dread” (a partial list)
    I also don’t see how your argument address how the awareness of the following is beneficial.
    “…blue pill conditioning, the reasons for your predispositions towards a Savior Schema, feminine identifying, why a LJBF is a rejection, why Beta Game comes naturally to men but is self defeating, or why SMV accrues and decays over the course of a lifetime…” (again, a partial list)

    Perhaps you have elaborated in other comment threads which I happen to have missed, but what exactly are you advocating for? It almost sounds like you view red-pill awareness and game as ineffective or pointless.

    You said “Close to everything in life revolves directly/indirectly to our innate biology.” Sure, who could disagree with that? However, this truth doesn’t close the discussion and invalidate other realities or strategies.

    I assume that you would agree that modifying our understanding of inter-gender relations to more closely resemble the truth, and then implementing behaviors which are effective for one in reaching their personal goals would be, in general, a positive thing.

    I suppose I am asking you what you are advocating for; are you trying to fine tune and improve red pill theory, are you trying to invalidate it, or do you have some other goal??

    Rollo has made it very clear what he is advocating; and in doing so he has improved the lives of many, including mine.

  33. ” By early spring, the larders were bare in most farming societies. The food scarcity could be lessened in two ways:

    1) By increasing food production during the growing season and storing the produce for off-season consumption; and

    2) By domesticating animals as a year-round food source. Both strategies, however, tended to increase male participation in agriculture and thus decrease female self-reliance.”

    And of course just about every agripastoral community’s fave pastime

    3) War. Raiding and rustling, as soon as the harvest/meat-preserving season was done. As highly organized bands, becoming an almost professional skill requirement of the group’s young men.

    Almost unknown among full-on hunter/foragers, who could rarely make the cost/benefit sums involved stack up, beyond the odd skirmish. Needs a lot of investment in non-disaffected “betas” to be viable.
    Strike early, and strike hard. Requires a powerful ideology, to overcome the natural aversion to knowingly placing oneself in harm’s way and treating other men and women as alien objects to be hunted like prey.

    Do you reckon that might be ‘selected for’, in the long run? [Just curious]

  34. In this context the word “Game” can have a positive or negative connotation. The positive is that “Game” abstractly and objectively describes real truths, principals, and techniques. The negative is that “Game” implies pretend. Playing the game Monopoly is not the same as running a real business although it involves a few of the same basic principals.

    It is good the word “game” is used herein because it objectifies what is really happening. This helps the individual separate himself from his situation and logically comprehend it.

    However, the word “game” implies pretending or “playing” rather than really performing. The game player who does not “internalize” the principals, keeps them abstract, and never really practices them sufficiently in reality, will remain a pretender. He is like the amateur guitar player who isn’t in love with the process of playing and practicing; he gets booed off the stage. He continues life as an AFC. His AFC condition is sometimes recognized by his endless reanalysis of his condition and his repetitive rhetoric.

    The game player who “internalizes” the principals and (most importantly)enjoys the process itself learns to perform successfully.

  35. The red pill IS having a noticeable effect on the general population.

    http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/young-men-giving-up-on-marriage-women-arent-women-anymore

    http://www.the-niceguy.com/articles/MarryAmerican.html

    #1 at the bottom of this is especially interesting http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-reasons-marriage-scares-men-arent-what-you-think/

    You ARE having an effect. I recommended your book to several, three so far bought it.

  36. I’m getting sick of thanking you Rollo but great interview and body of work.

    @ Hobbs & bluepillprofessor – I can totally relate to you guys and agree with your comments.

    @ Glenn – I usually really dig your honest POV posts – but when you say “I just want to bang as many hotties as I can before I have no more chances. I used to never even be able to admit that was what I wanted before the Red Pill.” – ok so how is it that you approach women? Do you approach? Do you wait for IOI’s or approach cold? How do you intend to bang all these hotties? You have to approach – that’s how. And when you approach, you need Game – not just looks. Standing there with an improved haircut and muscular physique will certainly help, but you will still have to approach and engage with women you want to bang. That will involve passing shit tests, overcoming barriers (cockblockers/ASD/LMR) and escalating in various stages to sex.

    I’ve been reading Rollo’s work and most of the comment threads for nearly a year now. I think Game / Red Pill awareness should be separate from PUA. A good PUA doesn’t necessarily mean he is RP aware. But, if you have Game / RP awareness you essentially are a PUA (if that’s what you want to do).

    George in an earlier comment had a go at the “posers/PUA’s” that tried to pick up girls in front of his “real Alpha’s” (Hells Angels I believe). It took massive balls to run Game on girls in front of multiple burly bikers – so I think the guys attempting PU are far more Alpha than dudes who have to join bullshit outlaw gangs for protection or some sense of belonging.

    What I’m getting at, is that Game works but has to be calibrated for each individual based on if you are – a) single and trying to bang hot women, or b) if you are in a LTR or marriage. The calibration (or application) must be different to get the desired result – which is usually more sex. I think a deeper understanding of RP is essential in an LTR or marriage, whereas Game/PUA techniques are more essential when single and sarging to get laid – the knowledge of Game assists in both these contexts.

    I’m 43, 6’4″ and jacked and have always been told I’m good looking – but lacked (and still lack) the confidence & ability to ‘consistently’ approach hot women to get the amount and quality of pussy I want. I can’t just stand in bar and have women hit on me.

    Game / RP & PUA have all contributed to my new unplugged mind-set which I will be forever thankful for.

  37. Simple questions: Has your basic understanding and general perception of women changed as a result of your knowledge of hypergamy, AFBB and the biological motivators of ovulatory shift?

    Yes

    Are you better off for it now that you can adjust your own behaviors and interactions with women you’d want to have a short or long term mating/pairing with according to those new expectations?

    Yes

    Are you in a better informed position to optimize your own sexual strategies and / or life plans as a result of that knowledge?

    Absolutely.

    Looks count? Of course, but game is a total package that involves much more than looks. And even looks can be influenced and altered to in many cases a great extent, if nothing else than simply by finding and adopting an effective “style” for oneself. Any marketer knows that packaging/presentation counts for at least as much if not more than actual product/content.

    Beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, but more importantly in the bearing of the beheld.

    IMO what it all comes down to is that, no matter what your age, physical condition, or other status, if you are not actively working to improve yourself in meaningful ways, then no matter how much you “understand and accept” Red Pill truths, you are still not fully Red Pill. We either move forward, or we move back. No one just stands still.

    “I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really. Get busy living or get busy dying.”
    -Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

  38. I think when every man buys a girl flowers he has this instinctive “wtf am I doing” or just an unatural feeling. Either I was super duper happy to make her feel better, or I felt like a pussy and did it anyways.

    You know you’re red pill aware when you understand when this buying of flowers is actually a red flag lol.

  39. I always had a WTF am I doing feeling when buying flowers, etc. and also when buying my wife’s engagement ring…a little dissonance in the back of my mind I never could quite understand consciously. It took me a long time, several key occurrences over a few years to start really becoming red pill aware. I hope Rollo’s book, the manosphere, etc. helps many others to see the light sooner in life than I did.

  40. @ FM, oh ya?

    Gotta admit, that sounds a bit suspicious my friend.
    Either you are trolling, (I won’t take the bait), or you are entirely new to this site and to red pill.
    If you happen to be new, please to go year one and read up on the best of RM, it will be very enlightening to say the least.

    My story is nothing unique and would contribute nothing to the conversation that hasn’t already been addressed on this site.

    I am simply a newly red pill aware married man, *shrug,* a good percentage of the posters here are in the same boat I assume.

  41. @ Stuttie – I think I must not have been clear. I use all that I learned in the manosphere when I interact with women. I gobbled up info on shit tests and IOIs and other PUA techniques, but my POV was quite different from your’s and perhaps many other guys who come to “game”. My “n” was over 100 before the Red Pill and I’m also a high level, very successful sales executive who’s been going up to strangers and asking them for as much as millions of dollars for years, so “approaching” has always been child’s play to me. I recently was put through a 1.5 hour shit test by my 25 yr old friendgirl, the silent, rudish sort of treatment in my car. I ignored it and really didn’t care and after a while, she just snapped out of it. Lol, learning to not take women seriously is perhaps the best gift of the Red Pill.

    The “game” of social interactions is something I studied seriously long before taking the Red Pill. I approach women all the time, but I usually wait for IOIs as I’ve discovered that some small pct of young women are attracted to older men and if you are observant they let you know they are interested. In one way (setting aside how the Red Pill helped me deal with my daughter and sisters), game became important to me only now as I’ve gotten older, fatter and less attractive. I was an unconscious, half-competent man with women for most of my life but that was not good enough anymore. I coasted along on a nice face for 30 years, along with a natural aggression and a great line of BS and did okay with women. As I’ve said elsewhere, I also am funny, a gigging singer/songwriter, am a very good conversationalist and generally like people. I’m gregarious and am one of those people who can make friends everywhere he goes. You are right – approach, approach, approach, but that’s also a beginner’s game just as it in sales. After a while, you realize that being selective in whom you approach is quite wise. I also get that I must be pulled and not always be pushing, as I learned long ago that you can’t make someone want you, or want to buy something from you. All you can really do is create the optimum conditions for them to express interest and engage in that desire/interest and then play with it and develop it with them.

    In fact, the one point I would make to all guys who are having difficulty approaching is this. Get out of your own heads. I know you’re scared and nervous and are afraid of rejection – who cares, fucking get over it already. That is all made up shit occurring only inside your head. Once you step out of all your own fears and desires only then can you start really being with someone that you are talking to. Really listen to them. Actually BE interested as I am, as I really like people. Most of all, gauge feedback. Look for body language and pay attention. Be involved with her, not yourself and it will come naturally. But if you are just using “technique” to try and trick some woman into falling on your cock you’ll never make progress, or sell any software.

    One thing that any guy who wants to up his ability to observe and read others should do is read a book called, “What Every Body is Saying” by Joe Navarro, a former FBI interrogator. Fyi, my brother knows him and is perhaps even more respected in that field than Navarro and has taken me through much of this when I hang out with him. It’s essentially a guide to detecting deception, but really goes much deeper than that. It utterly changed how I sell and interact with women. As we say in sales, “Buyers are liars” – and so are women. And all human beings. Humans lie all the time in ways large and small and it’s easy to detect. She tells you that she has to go home early, or has a BF or whatever – and you will know if she’s lying or not. This also improved my poker play dramatically, and Joe Navarro did a whole set of seminars for poker players in fact.

    Last. My desire to “bang hotties”. It’s funny, reading you write that out made me a little ashamed (blue pill echoes) and I caught it. I actually would like to have an ongoing relationship with a woman, but I find it terribly difficult to deal with in today’s society. The women of my generation have largely been wrecked by second/third wave feminism – and their daughters (who I mostly date now) see it more clearly than they do. The delusions about having it all etc and the “Strong, Independent Woman™” branding makes me repulsed by them, and the younger generation of women are much more practical about the tradeoffs they are making and seem to naturally get the complementarity of men and women.

    A little vignette here. I took my 25 year old friendgirl (the deeply perverted one) to get her nails and toes done and was in the nail salon for a few minutes at the end when I came back to pick her up. Fyi, I have no problem provisioning for a woman who is fucking me and in fact am generous to women who do so. The younger women get bowled over by it as their generation of guys just don’t do this – but I digress. I was chatting with the cashier, about my age, and I commented on how this was such a “woman’s space” and that I felt like an invader. She laughed and said, yes, and I added that the only men’s space left was the “man cave” and the garage, and she at first agreed but then caught herself and said, “No, everywhere is a woman’s space”. A 25 year old woman would never, ever say that. Only the ruined madwomen of my generation. As an aside, it didn’t even anger me, I didn’t argue, I just smiled and rolled on. Like I do to all such idiots and boors, which is what most women my own age are. It’s funny, up where I live they are all crunchy, spiritual, politically correct and don’t realize they are caricatures, not real people. Yet they think they are better than every one else around them and are so judgmental. When I suggest they just chill, smoke a bowl and let me play a song for them, their eyes bug out. When I suggest that to a 25 year old, their eyes light up. Age appropriate women have made themselves unpalatable to me, and I’m just reacting accordingly.

    The problem is that I’m a short term interest for young women, and I get that. The young women who are interested in me (not many) have an older guy on their “list”. I love this in a way because these encounters are always very loose affairs, I don’t care if they see other guys etc – that’s part of the attraction of a mature man, and they come and go as they please. But it doesn’t offer real relationship possibilities and I don’t even know that I would want that with a 25 year old. But the gals my age are so fucked in the head, so entitled, so rude, so deluded about their own worth and the world around them that it’s not worth it. I also spin plates constantly now and that makes me compare the women available to me. Whenever I have a 42 year old in the rotation, she quickly disqualifies herself in comparison to the others by being difficult or needy or entitled (or all three at the same time like say Robin Korth). I also don’t play good guy anymore and this makes many of them crazy. Not the young ones though, they seem to like that I just “get it”. Thanks Rollo.

  42. Siirtyrion continues to complain that “the question is not whether or not it ‘works’”, but whether or not Game *should* work since women have such exquisitely-honed pickers. This is the exact same complaint that women have: they don’t like knowing the fact that Game can easily work. For all of his/her smokescreening about “honest” signals, the fact that “dishonest” learned signals work so well is THE topic of this post.

    I have the opposite complaint, currently incarnated as the Unamused Presence here: the reason Game works so well is because women have such awful pickers. If a man can hold his nose, in a morality sense, and engage in immoral behaviors that exploit women’s weaknesses, then he will be far far far more successful with many many many more women than if he sat at home in front of his mirror plucking his eyebrows (aka “working onhis looks”).

  43. @Hobbes re: “The myth that women can somehow sense the best genes is alot like the blue pill myth of women having some magical intuition. They don’t.”

    This. This. Get this, and be free.

  44. There are many out there who don’t want to accept the fact that Game works (even after all of the data has been collected). You see it time after time, the little things – the little adjustments that men make when meeting women – and they work.

    Feminists (and the feminist narrative) doesn’t want it to work and doesn’t even want to admit it works because it will burst their bubble and let the cat out of the bag. All of their nonsense that they’ve been preaching for the last few decades will look just like that – nonsense.

    Men need to continue studying other men of the past and their behaviors (i.e. The Rat Pack, Steve McQueen, etc…). I don’t care how many women argue with us…that behavior displayed back when, and in 2014, works on women. They just hate to hear how it works so well on them.

  45. @ JF12 – You are all misunderstanding Siirtyrion. In fact, he’s never said that women can detect good genes. Of course all the fitness tests are proxies – this is not news. And in fact, he discussed in detail the scientific data that shows how women overvalue appearance when selecting mates from a genetic fitness POV. In essence, when one moves beyond average attractiveness, the marginal improvement in fitness plummets. This is part of the runaway selection phenomena he describes. He also went at length to describe how this is a forcing on the “system” and reduces genetic quality, and also explained why we aren’t reproducing at replacement rates.

    He’s not saying that it’s all about looks either, but that it’s much more deterministic of the outcomes than PUAs think. Read his cites in the back comments on this – and then get back to us and contravene him on that basis if you want to say the science doesn’t matter. What he’s really saying is that much of what is presented as “game” is much less effective than people think. It’s own practitioners have dismal “success” rates – look at Roosh’s or Krauser’s own numbers. Low single digits, if that.

    In a way, what he’s saying is this. Let’s say Krauser does 1000 approaches and gets laid 11 times. The only way to tell if game works is to have a non-game trained guy, with the same SMV, do 1000 approaches as well to the same girls. Tell me, do you think that guy won’t get laid at all? Siirtyrion is saying that this guy would probably do just about as well as Krauser, given similar attractiveness. If you don’t have control data like this – you aren’t doing science, period, and everything you conclude from “the data” is horseshit, like the statement that Rollo quoted from Krauser.

    He actually stated something much more profound in his comment on Krauser if you were paying attention. PUAs approach this as a “lottery” when in fact women’s selection is deterministic, not random. So it’s not really a “numbers game” – it just looks like one to dumb people. But even then, if you consider what Krauser and Roosh do, there is a huge deterministic element to it at a meta level. Why do they travel to eastern Euro cities or focus so much on young tourist girls in Europe? These girls are “self selecting” and are much more promiscuous and approachable. They talk about noticing their shoes and backpacks etc – and one could take this much farther, as I have for my purposes

    I realize that women have long and short term mating strategies now (never knew this). The young women I’m interested in segment out pretty readily. Something like 5% of them have an interest in being with an older guy as a short term experience. I also notice that women in this age bracket are also much more likely to let their interests be known (unlike the coquetteish games women of my generation play). So I approach less than I used to, and wait for IOIs.

    Let’s define “approach”. I talk to lots of women, so in a way I do a lot of approaches. But mostly I’m just friendly and conversational. When I get an IOI, then it becomes an “approach” for me. Sometimes I get an IOI before talking to the woman, and that’s even better. And since I know that the interest is short term, I close very quickly and the few that actually are interested like that I get it, that we don’t need to do the whole romance thing. I think this is why the term “hang out” has become so popular in that generation. I just ask these young women if they want to “hang out” sometime and they get it, and get that I get it. So, I’m using what I know about their preferences and observing their behavior to improve my “game” from a lottery to something less variable. It’s also a good approach for my environment as it’s literally brimming over with women from 19-25 given the 4 colleges in Keene, NH and the ratio of males for these females. You can see it in how the women behave, it’s just like NYC – maybe even more pronounced. The competition for alphas is extreme and it shows in how hot they dress and how they behave to garner attention. Seriously, it’s like fishing in a pond where some fish accidentally jump out of the water and into the boat. My “game” may not work elsewhere, but for my local conditions it’s just fine. I also have to be better looking to really capitalize on it. 2015 will be the acid test year for me to see if I can really look 40 again and be a solid 7+. Fyi, if you want to dry a young woman’s vagina up, tell her you are 52. They aren’t embarrassed if you are under 50, but if their friends find out they are fucking a guy over 50 they will be shamed relentlessly. So I’m nonspecific about all that crap – and they don’t care. Should have seen the look on the current freindgirl’s face when she realized I was 52 – never lied, she just assumed I was younger. Even after I told her I had a daughter her age. Women hear what they want to hear, and I’m parsimonious with data that doesn’t aid my game.

    Game is also entirely separate from the larger Red Pill phenomena we discuss as well. Our gynocentric culture (romance, chivalry, courtly love), second wave feminism and its effects, and the power imbalance between men and women are all worth knowing. Understanding how the culture contains memes that are utterly out of step with the reality we live in is incredibly useful. But that’s not “game” – game is optimizing your interactions with women to improve your chances of fucking them. There is also an element of skill to all this that really isn’t anything new. Many of the ideas such as being funny, confident, attending to your appearance – I mean, is that really revolutionary? I also think PUA becomes more popular as more men are raised by single mothers and women came to dominate education as they don’t have good role models for alpha male behavior. Sure, one can say this is all about protecting and promoting female imperatives but it’s also true that men have allowed this to happen. In many ways what the manosphere is all about is re-affirming masculinity and a positive view of it for men in our current masculine denigrating society. For me, just that has been revolutionary. I love being a man now and embrace my toughness, my curiousity, my aggression, my resiliency, my reason, my preference for action over analysis – I wear them like badges of honor now and apologize to exactly nobody for it. If i got nothing else from the Red Pill, that would be plenty.

    What is revolutionary is men embracing all this instead of having it shamed. What is revolutionary is men stepping out of the outdated Beta provider roles and questioning them with a realistic view of current female behavior. Remember, 50 years ago, women were not dumping Betas in droves after promising to spend their lives with them. What is revolutionary is men knowing what women are actually responding to. Knowing this informs how you play the game and optimize it at a meta and individual interaction level, as I’ve described above. But none of it can make an 8 who isn’t interested in me interested.

    Am I making any sense at all?

  46. re: “Hunter-gatherers became less polygynous with increasing distance from the equator.”

    Objection: speculation, and fantasy. One of many many counterexamples, although one suffices: NorthAmerican Eskimos.

    Almost all of latitudinal reality refutes Siirtyrion. It’s like a conspiracy against him/her. For examples, the common Iroquois, far distant from the equator, were more polygynous than the Aztecs,and *far*more polygamous than common equatorial Incas. And keeping going the other way, the common Yahgans of Tierra del Feugo were, again, much more polygamous than common Incas. So much for the Western hemisphere.

    In Africa, the Zulus, far from the equator, are much more polygynous than the equatorial Congo peoples including Pygmies. Further east in longitude, the tropical Tamil people of far southern India were much more monogamous than the nontropica Punjabi people and Tibetans, famously. Further east still, the tropical Australasian aborigines and native Borneans are monogamous, and the nontropical indigenous Mongols and Aleuts who were highly polygamous.

    Indeed, aside from the disruptive spread of Islam, historically the actual distribution of polygamy is exactly opposite of what Siirtyrion claims.

  47. About Siirtyrion, October 9th, 2014 at 2:54 am
    .

    In this article, Rollo “looks at the benefits of Game both in an intergender and interpersonal context”, and shows us ways in which different elements that comprise Game have had, and will continue to have, a significant and positive effect.

    As he says, Game is “an abstract term for a much larger concept”, and one that includes many disparate aspects of male-female interaction.
    .

    Nevertheless, Siirtyrion ignores all of this, and immediately returns to repeating his one and only message: “I disagree. ‘Game’ is largely a myth – a popular fiction synthesized to embellish male success with a basis in real quantities of evolutionary value”.

    And Siirtyrion makes this claim without defining what exactly he means by “Game”, or telling us with which of Rollo’s many points he disagrees.
    .

    “Trivial observations that seemingly confirm ‘game’, are observing nothing more than spurious correlations.”

    But then he does not directly support this rather central assertion with respect to everyone, but instead switches to talking about “handicaps” (a “handicap” is a costly signal) with resspect to “Naturals”.
    .

    “The quest for a practically learned skill that can ‘bend’ female choice is a fool’s errand, because in order for evolution to work opportunistically, it must cull (in particular) male frequencies every generation.”

    Squooshing two sentences together with “because” does not then make “In order for evolution to work opportunistically, it must cull (in particular) male frequencies every generation” have anything to do with “The quest for a practically learned skill that can ‘bend’ female choice is a fool’s errand”.

    How does this even make sense: Because, in order to work opportunistically, evolution must cull male frequencies every generation (through selection by females), it is therefore a fools errand to seek psychological mechanisms that influence selection by females.
    .

    “So, a problem occurs in the observation of ‘naturals’ (an accepted premise of game convention) – demonstrating game as a behavioral phenomenon of ‘handicapping’ load (via the handicap principle), rather than some cryptic fitness indicator.”

    From the University of Washington: “In the early 1970’s, biologist and natural historian Amotz Zahavi struggled to understand a problem that had puzzled researchers since Darwin: Why do animals often produce costly and extravagant displays or physical ornaments? … Why do gazelles jump up and down when they see a lion? … To answer this question, Zahavi proposed that these extravagances are signals to other individuals. … Zahavi named his hypothesis “the handicap principle,” and suggested that there is something about costly behaviors or physical features that make for inherently reliable signals.” [octavia.zoology.washington[]edu/handicap_old/handicap_principle.html]

    Siirtyrion doesn’t tell us what problem occurs in the observation of Naturals, whose genes supposedly make them above and independent of Game anyway.

    But somehow Game both is a costly behavior, and is not a fitness indicator, according to his confusing sentence.
    .

    “To elaborate – in applying the ‘handicap principle’, it tells us that those whose success threshold is lower in terms of ‘game’, are displaying greater indications of genetic fitness, given that this greater effort will allude to a fitness handicap. This is because fitness signals have evolved to be energetically costly to display …”

    In other words, those who don’t have to use as much Game have something else that women find attractive, namely indications of genetic fitness. Creating these indicators is costly because it draws resources away from necessary life functions, thus having them demonstrates a greater capacity / fitness.

    But this doesn’t actually say anything against Game, and can even be taken to mean that attraction acts like a slider-switch. A slider-switch with looks at one end and Game at the other, which enforces a sort of balance (if you have less of one, then you need more of the other, and vice versa).
    .

    “What game really is, is a display of sexual confidence – which is (conveniently) circular to its justification (i.e. those who are justifiably confident of continued future success, need expend less effort – in terms of handicapping – in trying to embellish themselves through ‘game’).”

    In other words, those who have been successful tend to be confident about future success, and don’t expend effort trying to increase their chances through Game.

    However, “embellishing oneself through Game”, by learning to project confidence through a change of mental attitude, is not a “costly behavior” in the sense of the Handicap Principle.
    .

    “But, since game is not a ‘skill/trait’, liable to be adaptive, but rather a system of knowledge, the question is not whether or not it ‘works’ so much as which parts of this system are justified, and which parts are spurious.”

    So now, apparently, we are being told to make determinations about “justification”, but without considering whether or not something works.

    Game is a system of knowledge that can be used to develop skills, which can become distinguishing features over time.
    .

    “An adaptive signal must honestly convey quality. For a signal to be a valid indicator of male quality at equilibrium, a reliable relation between the signaler’s quality and the signal strength must persist.”

    But for a signal to be an effective indicator, it only has to be perceived as honestly conveying quality, and he knows this, or he wouldn’t have included not caring about whether or not it works.

    Also, this is all with respect to an artificial environment that disconnects consequences from actions, and reproductive continuity from quality.
    .

    “Female preferences (i.e. choice bias for sexier guys) co-evolve with male sexual signals (i.e. male good genes); it makes no sense that some behavioral techniques (e.g. neuro-linguistic programming) had ever been developed to exploit non-existing female ‘sensory bias’.”

    Rollo has already stipulated, again, in this article, that looks are a prime requisite for arousal (and attraction), by citing therationalmale[]com/2012/02/23/looks-count/.

    So, unless Siirtyrion can demonstrate that nothing else can have a significant effect, that no female psychological “biases” exist, that we all have only imagined experiencing the effects and scenarios that Rollo has described, he should give it a fucking rest already.
    .

    Readers should consider if they had started to make a subconscious emotional conclusion that something was correct, simply because it felt intellectually intimidating.

    If something seems confusing, it is because it is confusing, and not because you are not smart enough to understand it.

    A true expert can explain anything to anyone, and in a way that is understandable.

    This is done by first stating definitions and assumptions simply and clearly, and then logically building on them by explaining, relating, and supporting relevant points, while using words that are meaningful to the intended audience.
    .

    “N.B. SiirTyrion is a developmental biologist at MIT. I think he understands evolution quite well, lol. Can’t wait for your reply to AlphaBeta’s points, Siir.” [Glenn, October 9th, 2014 at 10:05 am]

    Glenn demands that we trust in (the fallacy of) Proof by Authority (and one that is established through anonymous Internet claims!).

    But don’t such credentials actually amount to nothing more than this: http://www.swobble.de/img/user/1/1/3/pictures/1296941846.jpg

  48. If your definition of Game in 2014 is based solely on ‘Leisure Suit Larry’ caricatures of PUAs from the early 2000s, you don’t know what Game is.

    The PUAs of today (or what they’ve evolved into) aren’t the snake oil salesmen you need to worry about – it’s the ‘life coaches’ and the “I didn’t want to spend all that time in school” marriage ‘specialists’ who want to solve blue pill idealism with just enough red pill truths they borrow from the manosphere.

    If you’re indignant about contemporary PUAs your concerns are misplaced.

  49. @eon, I concur. Unless Siirtyrion really is a nonscientific cut-and-paste woman who does not want to be subject to Game, he is doing a fine job of portraying how such a woman would write.

  50. I’d love to believe all the Evolutionary theories, but experience tells me that game matters at least a little bit. Seen too much anecdotal evidence to suggest otherwise. Guys who, objectively, would be 4 on a 10 scale, who don’t have tons of cash (excluding the “rich guy” phenomena), pulling down chicks who rate, 7, 8, 9, even 10s. And when you hang out with these guys, who may be bald, short, have tons of moles, or whatever, you realize they have that “X” factor, with chicks…it doesn’t even mean they are charismatic at work or outside that dating/pick up environment. They just have it.

    I had that once (I’m shaved head, athletic, slightly above average looks)…and while I’ve banged about 100 women, including 6 in one 7 day period, I’ve never gone to bars and been that successful…my game was always the medium-hot, slightly alpha, possibly good beta, long-term potential-turned fuck buddy. This was all 10 years ago, but it worked then…ran through them. I would not rate myself anywhere NEAR what the guys are that I mentioned in the first paragraph though. I had to do a beta male chameleon thing, which totally worked for my looks and background. I usually dumped them before they realized I wasn’t going to be beta-bucks, and I was not a clear Alpha (which I would argue is more of a spectrum).

  51. @ Eon – And what are your credentials? Also, next time you hire a lawyer or go to a doctor, how about you just pick the guy who writes blog posts that you like? You may or may not be correct in your analysis of Siirtyrion’s comments (and again, I await his response with interest) but you clearly are a dunce when it comes to cognitive science and reason.

    Short version? Humans aren’t rational as individuals and in fact the best that any single human can do is engage in “motivated reasoning”. It turns out that we arrive at “truth” (conditional agreement, always subject to better evidence or arguments) collectively via contentious processes like debate or argument, or in academic settings, via formalized institutions and processes for proposing and validating new ideas. Given the precariousness of any one individual’s ability to reason, we also look for signals and third party validation of their ability to reason and be trusted sources so we know how seriously to take the commentary on offer. Hence whey when you go to an academic conference or read an article by an academic, there is always a brief summary of their background. Otherwise, you could continue to take education in evolutionary biology from warehouseman who game 50 hours a week like say a Stardusk…

    To reduce my pointing out his creds to an appeal to authority only demonstrates what lengths you’ll go to in order to justify and prop up your own motivated reasoning. But here it is plain. I trust an MIT scientist working in the field of developmental biology discussing these issues a whole lot more than I do some guy on a blog. You can choose otherwise but to suggest that I’m out of line to take this into account only reveals how desperate you are to be right, not any error in how I process and weight information.

  52. Game is a system of knowledge that can be used to develop skills, which can become distinguishing features over time.

    Brilliant. I’m stealing this.

    And thank you for sparing me writing a long rebuttal this weekend – I have a real big fish in my work life to reel in.

    I’ve perused Siirtyrion’s blog and while I respect his observations and intellectualism, I can’t help but come away with the impression that he’s more on a personal crusade to discredit Game than he has any real interest in the evo-psych basis of intergender relations.

  53. @ jf12

    Siirtyrion may well be a cut-and-paste woman, since its comments are full of stuff that look like verifiable references, but really are not. For example, “… attractiveness (Grammer & Thornhill, 1994; Zebrowitz, Voinescu, & Collins, 1996)”

    This is how in-line reference appear in a journal article, and this is acceptable, there, because additional critical information, like the fucking title!, is included in a “References” section at the end.

  54. re: “science has already laid out practically everything you need to know behind the interpersonal relationships between men and women.”

    ROFL. SMH. FYI.

  55. I trust an MIT scientist working in the field of developmental biology discussing these issues a whole lot more than I do some guy on a blog.

    https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/13/reality-vs-the-internet/

    I think a more valid question would be, do you trust the more than 20 years of research and social experimentation from a PhD at the UCLA Departments of Psychology, Communication Studies, and the Institute for Society and Genetics?

    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/research/

    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/

    Dr. Hasselton is easily my single most quoted source in the history of this blog. If you really want to sink your teeth into how Siirtyrion’s developmental biology stands up to her research (some confirms and some contradicts) I suggest you read some of her studies.

  56. @ Glenn

    “And what are your credentials?”

    Lulz, are you really this big of a dumbass?

    If you truly can’t understand that anonymous claims made over the Internet are not reliable, then you need to sit down and STFU.

    And did you forget that I have already given you my Internet Credentials: “I am nine feet tall, a most pleasing azure shade, and my cock is the size of three beer cans stacked one on top of the other”.

  57. @ Eon – You are not making me look badly, in case you don’t realize it, you are only making a fool of yourself. Siirtyrion may be a liar and you are most likely a flaming asshole, but I’ll go with my best judgment. Fyi, here is Siirtyrion’s blog – much of the content he posts here are in longer posts on that site. http://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/

    He’s doing a pretty good impersonation of a scientist. You? You do a great impersonation of a fucking asshole. As for shutting the fuck up – if you don’t want to deal with commentary you don’t like, go to a private forum, not a public one. I mean, you are lecturing me on how the internet works, don’t you know that simple fact?

    And oh yeah, go fuck yourself you arrogant, obnoxious prick. You are operating on the intellectual level of a 13 yr old girl. Grow up and get a grip on yourself, fuckwit.

  58. @eon

    Well said on all points.

    Stinging together confusing sentences filled with technical jargon is a great way to write spoof papers in academic journals. It’s also a great way to sound like you know what you’re talking about to the uninitiated layman.
    For a particularly appropriate example of this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair. The Sokal hoax was especially effective because none of the editors were experts in the field of Sokal’s paper (not to mention they simply liked its conclusions).

    I have yet to read anything from Siirtyrion that convinces me they are not a troll exactly along the same vein. A true expert in a field can, as eon said so well, “explain anything to anyone, and in a way that is understandable.” Siirtyrion’s long-winded diatribes are so enshrouded in nonsensical sentences like those eon pointed out as to be practically unintelligible.

    Steven Weinberg wrote a review of Sokal’s hoax paper that also makes for great reading (you can find it here: http://www.physics.nyu.edu/sokal/weinberg.html). In particular, he makes a similar point about academic clarity –

    “I suppose that it might be argued that articles in physics journals are also incomprehensible to the uninitiated. But physicists are forced to use a technical language, the language of mathematics. Within this limitation, we try to be clear, and when we fail we do not expect our readers to confuse obscurity with profundity. It never was true that only a dozen people could understand Einstein’s papers on general relativity, but if it had been true, it would have been a failure of Einstein’s, not a mark of his brilliance. The papers of Edward Witten, which are today consistently among the most significant in the promising field of string theory, are notably easier for a physicist to read than most other work in string theory. In contrast, Derrida and other postmoderns do not seem to be saying anything that requires a special technical language, and they do not seem to be trying very hard to be clear. But those who admire such writings presumably would not have been embarrassed by Sokal’s quotations from them.”

    In Siirtyrion’s case, the technical aspect of their writing is not particularly difficult to unravel, even for the uninitiated. But s/he/it makes no effort to write clearly otherwise.

    I’m going to echo David W.’s (another well-written post by the way) question: what is your point Siirtyrion? What does it have to do with the subject at hand (Game)?

  59. @ Glenn

    “You? You do a great impersonation of a fucking asshole.”

    That is Sir Fucking Asshole, to you!

    After you get sore from humping Siirtyrion’s leg, are you going to return to telling us that we must ignore all “realisms” (truths!), except for sex realism, because they might make us do unnatural things, like want to be around and to protect our extended family, or see that we need to protect our six-year-old sons from those who eagerly rush to elementary schools to demand that they “question their sexuality”? [therationalmale[]com/2014/06/12/owed-sex/]

    And then are you going to re-repudiate even sex realism and start to babble about misogyny, again? [ https://therationalmale.com/2014/07/30/game-changers/comment-page-2/#comment-49287 ]

    Do you think that people haven’t noticed how you zig and zag? In your comments you go fucking on and on repeating ordinary and (Red Pill) accepted stuff, and then insert something that seems out of place (your actual goal), or that would seem out of place if people weren’t so caught up with going along with your flow that they swallow it without actually thinking about it.

  60. @ Rollo – And what if Siirtyrion is out to debunk game and PUA? You claim to be all about the science – do battle with him scientifically, don’t attack him because his POV threatens your worldview.

    In fact there is a much longer debunking of game on his blog site that would be a perfect source for you to debunk his overarching argument. Here’s the link http://sirtyrionlannister.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/pick-up-artists-game-subculture-evolutionary-analysis/

    Also, all on this thread, LISTEN UP. Don’t conflate Red Pill truths with game, fyi. He’s not debunking all of the Red Pill world, just game as a technique for getting women to fuck you who otherwise wouldn’t. And I’m not even saying he’s right – but I am saying what he’s presenting is compelling and thought provoking, and that the comment by Krauser which Rollo seemed to take seriously enough to cite is utter, anti-intellectual horseshit.

    Rollo, you even acknowledge that he is thought provoking but then instead settle for citing affirmations that sound like something Stuart Smalley would tell himself in the mirror in the morning? Not impressive.

    What are you up to, Rollo, if it isn’t getting at the truth of all this? Who cares if “game” works the way you think? Wouldn’t it be better to understand what’s really going on?

  61. @ Eon – You are only proving what a shithead you are. I can’t imagine ever going back to your old comments and testing them for consistency – this is a conversation, not a didactic presentation.

    But hey, keep it up. For some reason this appeals to you. Not me though, I pass shitheads like you by in life every day. Please, enjoy being “right” – if only in your feral, vicious little mind…

  62. Thanks for one more superb article.

    You say there is no other word for “game” at the beginning. I’ve actually read the term “social dynamics” more than once. And, why not take this lack of a better term as motivation to look for one? What about “gender dynamics?
    My motivation is that “game” is difficult to translate from English.

  63. On her website, Siirtyrion is attempting to do heavy lifting for the HUS viewpoint (assortative mating rockz as defined by womenz, chicks hate jerks, etc), with neither the requisite training nor language skillz. I suspect no formal training in any sciences, soft or hard. Stylistically I lean towards Siirtyrion being a smart but undereducated Eastern Euopean woman maid displaced into Scandinavia, having discovered online both women’s rights and Game in the past year, and trying to come to grips with both.

  64. Rollo,
    I propose as a finely discriminating binary test for rationality/maleness initially finding Haselton attractively cogent. Further, as a measure of rationality/maleness the degree to which one becomes more of a fanboy of Martie the more one reads from her.

  65. As I commented and stated in this post, critics of Game (Siirtyrion) find the caricatures of outdated PUAs an easy target to pick apart, when in fact Game has evolved and matured well beyond what they started almost 15 years ago.

    Call Krauser a hack if you want, but he’s not incorrect; in the last 15 years PUAs (and then Game Theorists if you like) have had a leisure in their “experimentation” with social dynamic techniques and motivation that social science academia have been ethically and ideologically hamstrung from ever attempting.

    Whether or not you subscribe to what he or any other PUA concludes isn’t the issue; they may have begun in an effort to ‘get the lay’ but the fact remains that (albeit unintentionally) in 15 years they’ve gathered a base of intergender knowledge that no social science would touch for fear of fem-centric impropriety.

    Game is not ‘just’ techniques for getting a girl to bang who wouldn’t already do so otherwise. I started a post on the TRP subreddit to address exactly this:

    How has Game / Red Pill awareness impacted your understanding of women, life, and your perception of manhood?

    Have you shifted your personal outlook and life’s plans or goals as a result of red pill awareness?

    Example: any guy who’s dropped the belief in the soul-mate myth or the fallacy of The One is applying a red pill truth for the betterment of their life.

    How is that new understanding manifested? By way of their ‘Game’ and applying a new set of behavioral dynamics to their intergender interactions with women they would consider for long or short term intimacy.

    As a result, they see more favorable outcomes in their personal lives than when they held those beliefs.

    Now, want to know who came up with the abstract term ONEitis? That’s right, the early PUAs.

    I’ve read Siitrion’s posts, and yes, they do have merit and in many ways confirm what I’ve been writing for years. If I have a criticism of them it’s that he’s too narrow in scope with regard to hypergamy, and seems more concerned with being PUAHate with a PhD than really understanding how Game has matured far beyond what any PUA did or is presently doing.

    If you’re truly interested in ‘getting at the truth’ and the evo-psych underpinnings of gender dynamics, you’ll make the effort to read the collected works of Dr. Martie Hasseltion and those of her colleagues I linked.

  66. @Glenn You talk the biggest load of bollocks mate!

    Krausers old infieilds are still up on youtube, the infields before he was good at game. He couldn’t pull a whore in a whore house but he stuck at it and got good just like learning anything, Guitar, Martial Arts. Foreign Language etc… if you stick at it you get better.

  67. @Rollo, re: Haselton etc.

    One study on her site is the Sexual Regret article. Roughly speaking, young women’s basic sexual regrets comprise feeling too often going along with being talked into sex by unattractive males. Young men’s basic sexual regrets comprise feeling too seldom talking females into sex.

    IOW, regarding whether it works, it is Game, Set, Match.

  68. Psychosis

    The movie Titanic 1997 was not so much about the wreck of the Titanic as it was about soliciting a titanic number of movie watchers, titanic revenue, titanic emotional responses from women and ……

    would not have been so successful without the existence of a titanic psychosis perhaps.

    This movie is one of the most callous sociopathic vulgar displays of the feminine imperative, male degradation, male objectification and female disregard for male life ever produced.

    It was also one of the most asinine in your face poverty aggrandizing and shame on you if you are wealthy tropes ever produced. But that is another topic for different forum.

    The plot.

    “Jack” Leonardo DiCaprio the young hot, confident, self-reliant, uninhibited alpha boy liberates young sexy rich chick, they enjoy one intense uninhibited fuck and she gets pregnant. The ship wrecks and sinks, threat of death is imminent. He rescues her, puts her on a floating cargo pallet. He pays the ultimate sacrifice; freezes to death. She and his unborn child survive. Why did the story writers make him die?…..

    His death is crucial and pivotal to the plot and theme. His death is the most significant event in the story and absolutely necessary to produce the overwhelming emotional response from women that it did. The producers anticipated this response for profit of course. The story writers intended his death. The movie would have been a dud compared to what it was had he not died. They in effect murdered “Jack” for the purpose and intent of the story which was to provoke the universal self-evident anticipated feminine emotional response they needed to engender massive sales and highly profitable results.

    We are negotiating with an almost universal phenomenon.
    Without his death, the story would not be “one of the greatest love stories of all time”. Some women actually told me, “Well he had to die so the baby (hostage) could live”. Why is this so?…..Why is his death REQUIRED in this context and why do women consider it “so romantic”?….Why must “love” in this feminine context involve his death?…

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but this poor bastard always wanted to live, wanted to see my baby daughter grow up…. wants to enjoy life…never thought it necessary to play the part of “Jack” in any context…I found the entire movie (except the special effects) disgusting…..am I fucking weird?

    Another plot.

    Someone should write a similar “great love story” from another perspective but include the same theme. The heroine of the story would be a hot young “10” girl, nice ass, pretty face, beautiful hair, etc. She would come to an AFC beta’s rescue, love him unconditionally. He bangs her regularly. She gets pregnant. After a few years and children, she hits the wall her tits and ass have sagged, she is fat and wrinkling. He takes her out for a drive in the country. He tells her how deeply he loves her. They stop for a romantic picnic in a remote meadow. As the sun is going down he grabs her by the hair, pulls out a pistol….BANG! blows her brains out. Then he pines over how hot her ass was when she was younger and how much he enjoyed fucking her when she was younger. He goes back to the meadow years later to retrieve the heart necklace she gave him years ago so all the men in the movie theater can vicariously experience the nostalgia. OH! How romantic and she was soooo hot, whaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa. It’s soooo sad! NEXT! Get me an 18 year old!

    How are these two stories different? They both involve death of one gender for a perverted optimization of the other genders fantasy imperative. You may think the stories are completely different because one involves death by “circumstance” and the other involves one character overtly murdering another. To an extent you would be correct, but not entirely correct. They are both outright murder. Both are fictional stories. Both writers create with the same freedom. Both writers intended a characters death. Both writers killed a character. The difference is that one involves murder hidden behind the pretense of “circumstance”. The other involves direct overt murder.

    The death of “Jack” in Titanic was INTENDED. It was premeditated. It was premeditated, and every detail of it was painstakingly orchestrated by the producers. This was their intent, otherwise they would not have written it into the story. The producers murdered the character Jack in Titanic for the purpose of the story. Neither story is real so why is one so embraced, the other so disgusting?

    The ONLY difference between the killings is that one is overtly initiated directly by a character the other is covertly hidden behind “circumstance”. The covert scenario is actually more powerful and sinister because its intent is hiding behind “circumstances”. The circumstances are assumed to be uncontrollable until you realize the circumstances and every detail about them are completely controlled by the writers and we are not examining reality. We are examining intellectual intent.

    Why did so many women embrace the theme of Titanic and masturbate their emotions with it? Why aren’t they turned off by Jacks death? He fucking froze to death. It is tragic. It is horrible. How could his death emotionally satisfy them? If they aren’t emotionally satisfied by this theme, then why are they masturbating their emotions with it?

    “Titanic Psychosis?” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

  69. Glenn’s blowhard asshole quotient seems to increase with each comment. Which is probably why he actually is as successful with the women (and sales!) as he claims. Hey! See what I did there? Asshole game works = Game works!

  70. And why, precisely, do men so enjoy Girl Game? Why should the idea of a man acting sexier than he “really” is be so very, and so universally, irrationally off-putting to women, while the idea that a woman is exerting herself to be sexier is so very, and so universally, rationally exciting to men?

  71. game has changed my life for the better. I know why i do the things that i do, and happily lay a variety of young women. I must say that i really took the self improvement part of game seriously. I dress really well, and i put on 30lbs of muscle in 3 years. (i lift 10 sessions a week). Im a really small guy, but im getting laid alot. the only thing i couldnt change about me was my height, so, i added 30lbs of muscle and now i dont have a problem being socially dominant or being too small for most women who are under 5ft 9inches.

    btw woman will try to shame you, i mostly date early 20s women. older woman will say that i cant handle a mature woman. i just say “Ya, I can, their just less firm than younger woman” that usually shuts them up.

  72. All this talk about “honest signalling” looks etc also remind me of the Female Imperative of “know your place” Its just another shit test to filter out those guys who “get it” and those who fall for it and don’t.
    It’s telling that SiirTyrion has now failed to reply, after a steady stream of responses, once he was backed up against the wall and asked “ok, so what are you saying we should do”
    The silence is deafening. I guess we should remove ourselves fromthe gene pool, know our place and quietly sulk in the corner.
    Fuck that.
    Someone posted a story on the other thread about some biker guys who beat up some, supposed, PUA and how that proved they were alpha and that somehow that made proved game was BS. The logic is strained..
    Those guys, the supposed Alphas, were performing, just as much as the PUA does. They beat the guy up as a performance to win the females approval.Notice they weren’t sitting there and had the women march up to them and blow them.. no they performed- a violent act mind you- to get the girl.
    All these stories are basically addressing, and giving in, to the fears we have been tought and instilled….
    Stay in your place because women “know” the real thing
    Just be yourself- we know how well that turns out
    Don’t even try or you’ll get beat up and hurt…
    blah blah fucking blah… either these guys are deliberately doing it in service of the FI to undermine game, or they are victims of the BP mentality that has been shoved down mens throats for decades now.
    Either way, enough. If you have nothing to say that doesn’t help me achieve my goals and empowers me, then fuck off.

  73. @David W.

    No, I’m not trolling. Just genuinely interested. Yes, I suppose there are numerous posts I could visit. I have been trying to do this over about 6 months. Not at all to be sycophantic, but you sounded like a normal and sane person who might have good little bits of info to pass on to slow learners like me.

    I’ll get after that year one research.
    Best,
    FM

  74. Well, sooooooo…..

    I am open to the idea that Game as such is not some arcane wizardry that “bends the will” of da Ladies to become wanton sluts because of a well placed neg.

    Buuut, mebbe, it helped me to unleard my completely useless social conditioning and restored at least somewhat my place in the sexual hierarchy my maxilla and somewhat square jaw and my faces broadness to length ratio and my robust bone structure always deserved.

    Yes, I went to Sluthate.com.

    They worry a lot about this stuff.

    Apparently it is all about the looks.

    Mebbe this is so.

    But, if it is so, I can testify that not being able to actively sell what the Lord has given you results in the same outcome as not having something to sell to begin with.

  75. Mr Rollo Tomossi,

    Couple of questions.

    Do you honestly believe in game or are you one of those many ”dating gurus” who’ll use whatever it is that men think will get them laid, to sell books and to make money?

    Another question,

    How can you guarantee that game works? What proof do you have that PUA’s get laid? I have met many men who tried game with women who were nothing special to write home about and they all failed. Don’t take me wrong, i found the whole experience of advanced pussy-begging pretty fun to watch, but it gets kinda weird to see 30-something men act like horny 17 years old.

    Are you going for the word of the guys who infest heartiste and roosh, those guys who claim they have a 20-plates rotation? Because I met many guys who claimed to be Brad Pitts.

    Do you have a pHD, a masters or even a bachelors in biology, genetic engineering, psychology or in anthropology? For you to make such vehement statements on the nature of female sexuality, I reckon there’s more to you than being the manager of a casino, right? So where did you take your degree from? Oxford? Harvard? Or because you slept with groupies in your 20s you assume all women are only interested in ”Super Alpha males?”

    I’m honestly curious.

    And how can you possibly know how women react when the people who’ve studied human behavior are still finding blanks in human behavior?

    Do you know what hypergamy is? Hypergamy is the desire of women to marry men of higher social-economical status. It doesn’t happen all that often anymore. many women marry men of equal social status. Most men of higher social status marry women who are equal to them.

    Do you have any physical proof, historical examples that show the validity of your beliefs? I ask you this because looking at the titanic and the blue valentine movie, fictional works, as a base for your amusing claims of female sexuality is beyond..silly.

    last, because I have to go to the real world, where women and men of all sorts of physical looks and societal backgrounds mingle and date, do you even realize that women don’t go after the most attractive men? Here’s the thing. For the whole lot of you, the only women who are women are the most attractive of the species, but due to the fact that the vast majority of American men(70%) are grossly obese, its obvious the kind of women you guys want are not going to look at you, or at the men you see around them.

    lose weight, stop going for women half your age, stop thinking you are a 50year old James Dean with a ”50 women rotation” and you’ll do just fine.

    Mr, I have no ”game”(how can I have what doesn’t exist) little money, and I have plenty of physical flaws, and I’ve dated average to attractive women without needing to act like a monkey to come across as ”Alpha.” I’m a human being, not a wolf, and the very few men who could be given the epitome of Alpha, are far more manly than any of you will ever be – Lord Nelson, Augustus, Bonaparte, and so on.

    ”So, why, precisely, do women hate the fact that Game works?”

    Are you referring to imaginary women? I’ve met plenty of women and most of them make what they want of PUAs, yet I very rarely see a 20 year old PUA. Seems like Puas tend to be middle-aged Americans who have nothing better to do with their time other than hitting on women young enough to be their daughters.

    Guess I’m just a mangina, white knight, or what, an agent of the Matrix? Well, gotta split before Agent Smith brings me back to the Matrix. Free ZION!

  76. ”One study on her site is the Sexual Regret article. Roughly speaking, young women’s basic sexual regrets comprise feeling too often going along with being talked into sex by unattractive males. Young men’s basic sexual regrets comprise feeling too seldom talking females into sex.
    IOW, regarding whether it works, it is Game, Set, Match.”

    Oh, look, a Madonna complex. Women are so beautiful and out-of-reach for you, somehow an attractive woman having sex with a man who isn’t a narcissus is rationalized by her as ”feeling bad” or ”rape.” First of all, there are very few men who are attractive. The vast majority of American men are competing with Jabba The Hutt for the title of the least fit, second, men with the right weight for their height can and do date attractive-looking women, and its not like the most attractive men are swimming in ”pussy.” There’s more to life than ”dat ass”

    Women don’t rank a man’s worth in the size of his penis or his looks or his ”game.” Women can find themselves attracted to a variety of physical types. Be aware that when I say ‘Women’ I’m not saying 16 year old Angelina Jolie. I’m en-globing all sorts of women, and yes, a woman does not need to have perfect Beverly Hills teeth or hair woven from the golden-fleece to be attractive.

    Second, men are not entitled to sex and women are not entitled to male attention and provisioning. Stop being entitled little kids from a First world nation and think globally. The people who are being killed by ISIS aren’t thinking of ”hypergamy.” Show a little bit of maturity fitting your age. Grow up.

  77. ”@Glenn You talk the biggest load of bollocks mate!
    Krausers old infieilds are still up on youtube, the infields before he was good at game. He couldn’t pull a whore in a whore house but he stuck at it and got good just like learning anything, Guitar, Martial Arts. Foreign Language etc… if you stick at it you get better.”

    For people who claim to be masters of social interaction, your autism is showing. Her stance is guarded. Her shoulders are slumping, she’s holding her arms because she doesn’t feel secure. The man is making her feel like she’s in danger. The vast majority of relationships happen between people who meet each other in school, work and by being introduced by friends. Stop with the nonsense of approaching women out on the street. Women are going to work or school, they aren’t there to meet yet another horny grown-up men who thinks he’s entitled to taking away a woman’s time because, hormones.

    But I do appreciate the show so freely provided by the sel-entitled PUA. many a time have I been on the train with my sister or with female friends and I did enjoy seeing 35-50 year old men approach my 17 year old sister.

    Wait a minute.

    Not.

  78. @John

    Oh please….

    We accept it as a given that to be succesful in any profession, you have to alter your behavior.

    We accept it as a given that to be succesful in any athletic endevour you need to alter your behavior.

    But to alter your behavior to attract a mate, well noooo, that will never work.

    There must be some behaviors that work better than others, you can call that game or not , you can doubt that what game entails actually works, no problem, but if you are saying that no, in this area we are all driftwood, adjusting your behavior is futile, well, we do not live in the same reality.

    Plus, I am not saying that I am regularly crushed under the weight of cheerleader nymphettes, but to have sex with a women in her mid twenties is not that hard?

  79. Do you know what hypergamy is? Hypergamy is the desire of women to marry men of higher social-economical status. It doesn’t happen all that often anymore. many women marry men of equal social status. Most men of higher social status marry women who are equal to them.”
    LOL
    Ever feel like you’re just wasting your time, Rollo? That lady is definitely not not amused.
    And, characteristically, witters on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how unentertained she is.

  80. John: “disqualify… disqualify… disqualify…”

    Nice passive aggressive “honestly curious,” too.

  81. John/Josephine

    You invest a great deal of time dissing something you know little about. Please start from Year One above and experience the epiphany.

    Looks, game, wealth, in whatever order, maximizes female arousal and attraction. There is no controversy here. Your mocking conflation of RM with PUA and other disregarded vestiges of the manosphere is disingenuous.

    The attractive 50YO man will never garner arousal like his 20YO equivalent. The inarticulate unconfident bumbler, without more, will rarely arouse or attract. The poor man at any age will not garner as much attraction as the rich man.

    Accepting the red pill means seeing women for what they really are, not for what they say they are. Hypergamy is real bother/sister. The red pill answers the question of what women want and one of the many bitter aftertastes of he red pill is that we learn that women may not want us at all.

  82. @John, addressing actual verifiable claims you made.
    1) American men’s obesity rates are LESS than women’s in every age group except teens, exactly contrary to your misconceptions, and among the 50 yr old white males attracting your scorn, the rate of actual obesity does not exceed 30%, exactly contrary to your misconceptions. There are three times as many *grossly* (extremely) obese older women than men.
    2) Defining Nelson, Augustus, and Bonaparte as the exemplary alphas is very misleading. The alphaness of a male is a *sexual* concept based on his *sexual* access to females. Three intesting traits all three men shared, besides being leaders of men due to ability, are: pretty faces, high-pitched effeminate voices, and a sway in the hips while walking. Nelson had zero, actually negative, female conquests, as he himself was conquested by the gold-digging whore Emma. Augustus was never rumored to have much of an interest in women, at all, ever. Bonaparte tried, and failed, to impress the ladies with his “Look at me I’m the Supreme Emporer of the world!” shtick and like Nelson wound up stuck with a gold digging whore Josephine who played around on him.

    All the rest of your ranting is shrill and effeminate appeals to emotions about which we do not care.

  83. @Hobbes, re: the FI and “know your place”. I believe it to be characteristic of every group that considers itself to be the master group that “know your place” is a primary strategy to keep the others downtrodden. Presumabluy Rollo has addressed the “know your place” aspect, but maybe not highlighted before.

  84. @john

    You are still seeing attraction as a rational process that is controlled by the conscious mind. Nobody chooses what they are attracted to. They only choose whether to act on it. Go to any club and see truth in action.

  85. jf12, another intriguing bit of pub-quiz trivia about the 3 amigos

    Nelson: Five-foot four, possibly five-six. Kiss me arse, Hardy (6’4″).

    Augustus:
    “His complexion was betwixt brown and fair;his stature but low; though Julius Marathus, his freedman, says he was five feet and nine inches in height. This, however, was so much concealed by the just proportion of his limbs, that it was only perceivable upon comparison with some taller person standing by him.”

    Boney:
    Five-foot two, although revisionists claim five-six. And further, that he was wasn’t known as le petit caporel for being altitudinally challenged. ?Que? Don’t bogart it, guys.

  86. “Power poses” can boost testosterone (look it up, it’s worth experimenting with this). Strength training boosts testosterone. A healthy, consistent diet, supplement regimen and plenty of quality sleep will boost testosterone. Getting fresh air and sunlight and minimizing exposure to toxins by using (for example) faucet/shower filters will help keep testosterone levels high.

    Alpha males = high testosterone, high dopamine, low cortisol. Beta males = low testosterone, low dopamine, high cortisol.

    That is extremely oversimplified, but for a layperson that understanding is plenty good enough to get the ball rolling.

    My approach lately has been twofold:

    1) To make a lifestyle out of cortisol-lowering, testosterone-boosting habits.

    The “anabolic men community” is a good site for researching this stuff, of course on top of doing your own research independently. I would go into an extensive overview of what I’ve been doing diet, supplement and exercise-wise but I’ll get off track. Short, intense weight training workouts, plenty of carbs from fresh fruit and juices, rice and pea protein I blend myself to save money, eggs, steak, fish, chicken, only using coconut oil, butter and olive oil in my kitchen to cook, and the occasional buffet splurge, Jigsaw magnesium (a few tablets a day), vitamin E and vitamin K2 (menatetrenone form) are some cornerstones of what I’ve been doing.

    2) To deal directly with the mental/emotional stress and bad behaviors. This is where Faster EFT comes in, along with reading things like this blog and taking the time to process the information, and deal with my emotions as they come up.

    Working out and eating and resting well are fantastic, but they’re not going to accept unpleasant truths for you.

    Although hypergamy is just hypergamy. It isn’t inherently good or bad. It’s our emotional response to it that makes it a negative or a positive or a neutral (to us). We’re the ones that assign a value to it.

    As for the scientific evidence, that debate can go on forever. I don’t have forever. The real question is, can anyone argue that developing “Game” is harmful?

    Even if it didn’t work at all on women (which I seriously doubt), the idea of becoming the best version of yourself — how would that in any way be a waste of time?

    It’s a win-win situation no matter how you look at it.

    As for the negatives of Game, Rollo wrote a post about the only negative to Game that I can think of: children with dynamite, i.e., teaching PUA to men still immersed in blue pill reality.

    AKA guys hoping that they can fill the void in their lives with the unconditional love and support of some special woman. It’s at this point that the “Red Pill” can be seen in a spiritual element. A path to enlightenment specifically for guys who have been obsessed with the idea that they can find fulfillment in their lives by finding their “one”, or that the reason they’re unhappy is because they don’t have that special woman in their lives.

    I’m still integrating this information on a daily basis. It’s a lot to take in. It’s very important to ask yourself what value you’re getting out of everything you’re doing — for example, what value do you get out of reading Rational Male? How are you benefiting from reading this blog?

    I can think of a lot of benefits I’m experiencing from reading this blog. Otherwise I wouldn’t be reading it.

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