Field Reports

lion-chasing-gazelle

For the past three years of The Rational Male there’s been a consistent presence in the comment threads of guys seeking advice for particular situations with regards to Game. Whether it’s fine tuning certain aspects of Game or a larger consensus of the guys participating in my comment threads it’s become obvious there’s a need for a dedicated page and comment thread to address these Field Reports.

So I’m instituting this page for exactly this. If there is some urgency to have members of The Rational Male community analyze your particular situation feel free to hit anyone up in the comments of my current post, but please refer them to your particular field report with a link to your comment here. I’m hoping this will alleviate the mass of posts for field report analysis and Game specific insights piled into the main blog post for any given week.

There will be some rules for this “forum” as such. I ask that you only keep your comments to addressing the field reports at hand and save your larger theoretical stuff for the main posts, or if relevant, keep the “bigger scope of things” posts to being as succinct as possible. There will be no moderation in this comment thread (spamming excepted), so realize it will be a very hot kitchen before you post. I will impose no restrictions on video links here, nor will I limit links to various, but pertinent articles.

Understand, this is an experiment for now. It’s likely this comment thread will exceed thousands of comments. I’ll be instituting new comment plug-ins for wordpress to deal with this in the future, but I may archive this page the the posts and refresh this page in the future as well. If this gets cumbersome I may simply institute a dedicated forum-style sub-site of The Rational Male to accommodate for Game specific questions.

So have at it, post your field reports and feel free to comment on the ones you have some particular insight for. Be forewarned that it’s likely things may get a bit salty at times and I expect a lot of back & forth with debate and disagreements, but that’s what this thread is for – to hash out Game particulars for your given situations.

 

5,114 comments

  1. @BlackPill

    We used to take note of how these 10s and 6s run in pairs,almost if they plan it that way.
    What is more likely is they get along better and don’t compete with each other as a more equal team would.

    It helps to have a wing man in these situs to take the heat of the 6.

    What phase is the 10 in?Build comfort and rapport,then see what happens when she comes in heat.

  2. @YaReally, Scray, Hank, PUA.

    I guess I might as well copy paste my recent FR here.

    This was in a non-English country where I know only 3 sentences of native language.
    I got to the venue early (free entry before midnight – I got there at 22:30 and it was essentially empty.

    I warm up by greeting some other guy that was also there, then went to look around, asked a 2-set dressed in similar clothes “I got here too early?” “Yes” “What about you?” “What about us” “You also are here early” “We *work* here…” I shrug and eject. Advice for the hired guns? I imagine very similar will happen again and possibly even the same from last time will be there.

    Eventually a mixed 2-set (a couple) arrives. I open the guy saying “It is empty, mind if I hang?” The guy is ok with it. In between I chat up one of the bouncers, asking him what he does to not get bored while waiting for the place to fill up – “I just got used to it” – then if he has any stories, he replies he worked for 14 years as bouncer, I go “You must have seen everything then” but he doesn’t start telling me any fun stories (professional ethic?).

    While my opened 2-set orders a drink, I try to chat up a bartender (they were all male), ask what they do to spend time before people arrive. The guy just encouraged me to drink, but I wasn’t interested. He asked me “What do you want to drink?” which I’m not sure was him offering but I doubt it was, regardless I wasn’t drinking.

    The girl from the mixed set wants to seat down but all the tables have a “reserved” sign. They actually ask one of the hired guns how much it is in another room and it is expensive (duh). I’m not sure if it was with bottle service but from the order of magnitude I don’t even think it was. So we go back to the main room and I just go “Let’s seat down in this one, there is no one here anyway”. They are kind of hesitating so I seat down and say “The worse that can happen is they come here and ask us to leave”. The first time a bouncer passed us they were a bit nervous but he didn’t say anything so they relaxed. Despite the noise I asked them some stuff (usually talking to the guy, the girl was either more shy or was worse at English or both). I had spotted rings on them so I suspected they were engaged; I asked if they were married and they replied not yet. Asked where they are from, how they met, names, typical fluff.

    Some more people start to arrive and I’m just thinking that I’m on a set with 1 girl (even if taken) so I should be strategically well-off. Indeed, whether due to the girl or that we are sitting at a table with a reserved sign, a 3-set arrives, all thin, dolled up. HB6s to 7 I guess (I’m bad at this). They ask the couple if they can seat with us, and sit down. I was at the other edge then, so I go “might as well!” and go sit between the couple and the 3-set, open the girl that is now closest to me (HB-A), tell her the table isn’t really ours, I just sat down (she was really surprised at that) and then start “How do you know each other” (met in high school) blah blah. Middle one (HB-P), far one has a bit of see-through on her dress showing some cleavage (HB-V). I get up, grab a balloon from the ceiling and bring it to HB-A. HB-P ties it to her hand and says “That is so sweet!” And I’m like “Come on, I just grabbed it, it is not like I paid for it”, then see HB-A has a wrist tattoo, touch it (HB-A was surprised) and ask “Your name?”, so she tells me “I’m HB-A”. I just go and ask the other two as well. HB-P asks mine and I say “In a moment”, get HB-V name first, which was hard to get at first due to noise and distance but then I got it and make a joke about it making them laugh. Finally I give them my name and they all laugh (didn’t understand why). The other 2 are a bit on their phones so I tease them about that, lean around the back of HB-A to peek and such.
    At some stage I tried to better merge the coupled with the 3-set and introduce them to each other. It didn’t really meld organically. I think because the couple was not very outgoing, they seemed pretty introverted throughout. Eventually they said farewell and left early.

    I must have done something successful with HB-V, as she got up from her seat, crouches in front and below me (I’m still sitting down) and is talking to me saying she works in a different country and is here for the weekend with her friends – this is with her face just a few inches away from mine and a bit below so I just kept looking at her eyes while chatting. That was pretty intense for me, and she had her cleavage just down from her eyes as well. After explaining she was only here for a few days blah blah, she went back to her seat and back on her phone.

    Eventually a large group arrives for the roped-in set of tables (with bottle service) adjacent to the non-roped table I kind of squatted in. I lean back and ask one of the guys there what’s up with that, turns out their company paid for the table. That large group has 2 or 3 really tall HBs (one of them I label as HB-tall), and some even taller guys that were often dancing with them.

    My opened 3-set looks kind of bored on their phones (except HB-A) so I get up and pull them to dance. So I take the balloon out from HB-A to let it go so she can dance unhindered. HB-V just sticks to her phone but I got the other two up without much effort. HB-P rather obviously loves dancing (by the way I’m not very good at it, but she didn’t seem to care that much in the multiple times I was with her).

    I tried a few times to merge the 3-set into the big company party but it never worked out very well with HB-A and HB-P.

    At some stage another group gets in and gets our reserved table, so had to move to a smaller stand-up table with high stools (also with a reserved sign, but wasn’t used by anyone else at least until I left). That made it awkward between me and the 3-set for a few moments afterward (but I had warned at least HB-A about it). Later in the night I opened those people as well, which is how I know they were also from some company (they were actually from the U.K., so I chatted up all 3 girls from that set, which was mostly guys). What is it with companies paying tables for employees at night clubs? Also I imagine it is pretty hard to pull in that context as girls don’t want to get pulled in front of coworkers.

    A few times that I was dancing with HB-P she wanted to check back with HB-V and just went back, I went with her back even if I did it nonchalantly I guess that is a DLV for falling in her frame. Although I also lead her a few times around.

    In one of the instances where HB-A and HB-P went back to check on HB-V (still on the phone!) I managed to open the highest or rather high value guy from the large company party with HB-tall. As I’m talking with him, another girl comes tell me “He is a liar!” so I use that to open every girl from that company nearby (including HB-tall) and poll them in turn “Do you think he is a liar?” The guy is having fun with this. I also joke that their company must be a basketball company as even the girls are tall. Didn’t quite manage to make anything stick with HB-tall, but I’m left with doubt about her because she bumped into me a lot of times while dancing (but also can be me imagining things, it was crowded by then and I was kind of in the adjacent area). I tried to re-open her 2 more times but didn’t manage it. There was one time she went to the bar to get a drink where I think I could have tried again with her in some isolation, but I guess I chickened out. She left relatively early as well.

    Eventually HB-V finally got in the mood for the dance floor (I also kind of wonder in hindsight if the best play there was to get HB-A and HB-P dancing, and go back to HB-V which is meanwhile isolated).

    I realized I was staying too long with the 3-set and not really opening others. So I went to the other side of the club and tried to open a mixed set (1 guy 2 girls). First it took me 3 tries to get the guy to react (asked him if he spoke English). Then I just could only think to ask if he was with the group that was (at that end of the club) on roped table. He said “No” and I just ejected.

    A bit later and close to HB-P and HB-V I also tried to open a 2-set (which wasn’t even as pretty as them in my opinion) but even despite allegedly having some social proof / pre-selection, I asked them if they speak English and they rebuffed me by signaling that it was too loud to talk.

    Cold approach is hard.

    At some stage HB-A (I think before my cold approaches above) is dancing really closely with some guy (who by the way appeared to be pretty drunk). This went on for a good while and they were making out a bit close to the end of it, until eventually HB-P and particularly HB-V are suddenly making fun of HB-A (I didn’t understand anything beyond their facial expressions etc.) and either she decoupled from the guy because they started making fun of her, or they were making fun of her because the guy had vanished? Whatever happened HB-A was looking a bit crestfallen (either from not having the guy anymore or for her friends making fun of her) so I cheer up and say “It doesn’t matter, no worries” and right after that HB-P comes and gets HB-A to dance with her (like I said, HB-P really liked dancing) so I hang out with them again.

    It was getting late (for me), 1:00, so I figured out it is time to push my paltry comfort zone again and then I bail. I got HB-P isolated briefly so I picked her up and twirled and danced a bit closer to her, then the others returned, I waited some 10 or 20 minutes more, said “I’m going to sleep”. They were a bit surprised and I think HB-V and HB-P were disappointed, but maybe I’m imagining things. Hand shake on HB-V, hugged HB-P, hand shake on HB-A.

    When picking a girl up, is it better to just grab their waist and twirl (so they are mostly vertical), or like I’ve seen Owen in some vids grabbing them up behind knees and back so they are somewhat horizontal?

    By the way, one of the times I was in the bathroom (fortunately washing my hands by then, didn’t have my dick out) a girl just come through the bathroom. I’m guessing she was heading to one of the cubicles to give a HJ, BJ or whatever, but I tried not to stare so I’m not 100% sure she was with a guy and I sure as hell didn’t stick around. First time I see this so it was pretty shocking (but then, I’m not often clubbing). Anyway, are you supposed to do that in the men’s toilet or women’s toilet? I imagined a guy can infiltrate the women’s toilet as it is all cubicles, whereas the woman stucks out a lot as she has to pass through guys in urinals and such (the scene in the Wrestler movie is women’s toilet, but they didn’t even go into a cubicle in the movie).

  3. @IAS

    Hard to say how much is the language barrier but

    In between I chat up one of the bouncers, asking him what he does to not get bored while waiting for the place to fill up – “I just got used to it” – then if he has any stories, he replies he worked for 14 years as bouncer, I go “You must have seen everything then” but he doesn’t start telling me any fun stories (professional ethic?).

    You want to get off work talk as soon as you can, or not bring it up at all. You want to bring them out of the work headspace and into a friendly vibe.

    He asked me “What do you want to drink?” which I’m not sure was him offering but I doubt it was, regardless I wasn’t drinking.

    Not offering, you didn’t do enough to get him to want to buy you a drink, especially since he is working at a place where its his job to sell drinks.

    So we go back to the main room and I just go “Let’s seat down in this one, there is no one here anyway”. They are kind of hesitating so I seat down and say “The worse that can happen is they come here and ask us to leave”.

    Was that is the reserve section? This was a reserved table? If so, well played.

    I had spotted rings on them so I suspected they were engaged; I asked if they were married and they replied not yet.

    sometimes girls will just wear rings not to get hit on.

    Asked where they are from, how they met, names, typical fluff.

    do you have a stack. you want to get out off fluff and dhv or move it in more of a teasing sexual direction.

    Indeed, whether due to the girl or that we are sitting at a table with a reserved sign, a 3-set arrives, all thin, dolled up. HB6s to 7 I guess (I’m bad at this). They ask the couple if they can seat with us, and sit down. I was at the other edge then, so I go “might as well!”

    nice nice. you can bullshit your way into this. get to know everyone, so when the people who ACTUALLY have your table show up, you just act as if its an honest mistake. that’s a lot you could do with this, and even if you ended up getting figured out, as long as you win over everyone, most people will just think of you as a lovable rouge and comment your cajones.

    and go sit between the couple and the 3-set, open the girl that is now closest to me (HB-A), tell her the table isn’t really ours, I just sat down (she was really surprised at that)

    eehh I would have kept saying it was your table, you got it reserved.

    And I’m like “Come on, I just grabbed it, it is not like I paid for it”,

    or if its your style you could do MAJOR agree and amplify “Yes, m’lady, tis I. The most gentlemanly of gentlemen that has ever existed. You you deign to let me kiss your delicate hand?” and just ham the shit out of it all tongue in cheek.

    As I’m talking with him, another girl comes tell me “He is a liar!” so I use that to open every girl from that company nearby (including HB-tall) and poll them in turn “Do you think he is a liar?”

    good impromtu open. You can use this to merge sets. “Oh really, you don’t think he’s a liar? She didn’t either. And actually, you two are from the same place originally. Yeah, let me introduce you two.”

    Which, if you haven’t already noticed, you can just bullshit what they are similar on. That’s my style though, but you seem to be able to do at least a bit of the lovable rogue vibe.

    Not ignoring the language barrier here, and some of the more reserved people, but the main thing I am noticing is you not traveling with groups. It makes a big difference if you open with a girl with you (even better, girls, and with two on your arm). Especially if you give those girls away. Could you have handed off some of the girl to the UK guys, or the people in the roped off area (not sure how it was roped off).

    I realized I was staying too long with the 3-set and not really opening others. So I went to the other side of the club and tried to open a mixed set (1 guy 2 girls). First it took me 3 tries to get the guy to react (asked him if he spoke English).

    see. how do you think he would have reacted if you showed up with the 3 set, and then dropped off one or two of them with him. Make introductions, then peace out to meet more people. But you are right on staying in set too long with the 3 set. next time, you can stay with the 3 set, but travel around the club with them and meet other people. It will make a big difference as to how receptive people if you open them when you have a bunch of girls with you.

    great job on getting the reserved table. you could have milked it a lot more, but major props on being ballsier than 97% of guys out there.

    Good stuff, you just have to work on merging sets more, sticking in with girls and spiking BT faster. Look at how fast the rsd guys do it in their club vids, that’s the kind of reaction you want to be getting. Then pop around and keep spiking girls, take them with you to open more sets, and hand them off to other guys. Rinse and repeat until all the girls like you, and you’ve won over the guys.

    There’s a lot more to this obviously, but you are about there with what you are currently doing. Just have to push a little more.

  4. Heheh,

    I really like this Black Pill commenter. And wish him the best of luck. To convert. IDK, but it is probably about 1:00 AM in South Africa right now. It’ll probably be a couple hours before he has some rem dreams of his last field report.

    I really like the mix-up of advice to have better strategy. As a red pill and married man game enthusiast, I think this new Field Report section can also be used for red pill theory.

    In light of Black Pill’s recent field report, which was by all means a positive for him, needing a new level, (getting laid).

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/26/the-unbearable-rightness-of-being-female/comment-page-10/#comment-181369

    Instead of talking about what I obviously don’t do (game 19 y.o. alleged virgins) I still think there is value in curating stuff (Like Franco’s Manual of Seduction) from a guy that had a lot of lays and enjoys women.

    Heh. I actually care about a guy. How the fuck did that happen?

    So here goes red pill game theory for Black Pill related to his recent field report with a HB 10 and HB6:

    From Franco’s book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Manual-Seduction-Franco-Meet-Women-ebook/dp/B018YAGH4A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480895736&sr=8-1&keywords=franco+manual+of+seduction

    Woman’s primordial instincts and how to use them to seduce women in an irresistible way

    The basic principle is: “In every woman there are two levels: the socio-rational level and the evolutionary primordial, instinctual level.” Read this phrase dozens of times and remember it! Even better, write it on the mirror you use to shave yourself in the morning.

    If you want to become an expert seducer you need to remember this always.

    If you ask a woman why she spends so much time in front of the mirror to do her make-up or why she uses clothes which emphasize her breasts and legs, she will almost probably answer:

    ”I do it for myself.” Or: “It makes me feel good.”

    Most women are sincere when they answer this way. It is the social part of them which answers in this way. But the part “between their legs” feels differently.

    The reality is that the primordial part of the woman prepares herself in this way to attract the male with the best genes.

    Even if she has only one man in her life or no man at all, when she makes herself up she does that for the “Prince of her dreams.”

    If you want to be a husband and have a great relationship with a woman prepare yourself to be that Prince.

    If you are not at the level for that role, prepare yourself for trouble, sooner or later. I am not joking! That’s the way things are on the primordial feminine level.

    Her instincts give her the possibility of really surrendering sexually only to her Prince, no matter whether that Prince is Bill Gates, James Bond or a member of a Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang, who comes dirty, ugly and full of muscles to take her, puts his hand on her rear and orders: “Let’s go, bitch, to have a ride on my motorbike!”

    A clear proof of how women wait for their Prince is jealousy. Based on some recent studies jealousy is a strategy of Nature for increasing the likelihood of having more children. A jealous man will be more prone to make a woman pregnant, due to the fear of another male doing the same to her.

    A jealous man, unsure and hypersensitive is able to see the deep evolutionary motives of men and women, without the smallest mistake: she is the selector; she has to attract the man with the best genes. Jealous men, with their sensitiveness sense much better than others a basic truth: woman is the selector, so she chooses the best one. If she cannot choose right then and there, she waits for the best one and chooses him at the right moment.

    So it is only a question of time.

    The jealous man is afraid of not being in possession of the best genes. By the way that is also very true: there will be always someone around with better genes! For example, this could be Bill Gates.

    The jealous individual feels instinctively hidden realities which other people don’t see. The woman makes herself beautiful to give herself to the winner!

    The winner will be the one to be rewarded with the most beautiful lady, as a sign of superiority! However, women have to compete all the time with other women. This competition between women can be at worst extremely tough and remind a really bloody fight for survival, the magnitude of which men are rarely aware.

    To become a seducer you need to learn to dialogue at the same time with the two levels in every woman: the primitive and the social.

    You need to learn to “speak” to “two women” at the same time.

    1. The social and rational woman is the part of her who says:” I make up only for myself” or “I don’t make up. I am beautiful just as I am.” or even worse:” I am a feminist. I don’t make up at all” and then goes around with tight jeans and a 10-euro t-shirt, leaving nothing to the imagination.

    2. The primordial woman is the part of her making up to attract the best males. She is the selector and selects the best males. The reason she makes up and dresses in a classy and sensual manner or moves her rear in a sensual way on the streets is this one.

    This is the most important level for seduction and this is the level you need to get to know about in order to bring her into your bed.

    To become an expert seducer, you need to get to know how this level functions.

    You need to dialogue with the primitive level while at the same time “keeping an eye” on the social and rational level. In this way you will succeed in seducing her.

    Like this:” Yes. I know. Men have been oppressing women so much throughout history. There is a strange light in your eyes today. Is there something you would like to tell me?” and then you put your hand on her forearm.

    Things, of course, are not that simple, but this could be a good basic example.

    After this the seducer goes on talking with her about feelings and emotions and goes on touching her until she surrenders. He comes across as extremely self-confident (see later the concept of Alpha male) because he does not give her a chance to influence him with her words and he shows dominance.

    He goes on anyway with his seduction while keeping her social part busy with the conversation. The primitive part of her gets excited in the presence of such a selfconfident man and she surrenders.

    So the technique of seduction consists in the ability to dialogue at the same time with both the social and the primordial levels of the woman.

    You need to be able in the Approach phase as well as in the following Rapport & Comfort phase and Attraction phase to dialogue with both levels at the same time.

    The primordial level has two purposes:

    1. To have the man give her his sperm with the best possible genetic material. She is forced to be a selector, able to choose the best ones.

    2. To convince the man to be faithful and loyal to her for the time needed to bring a child into this world and to take care of the child.

    In countries where woman is completely independent from man, the above instincts are nevertheless present and still influence the behavior of the woman.

    Social factors do not eliminate instincts.

    I know that this argument will elicit discussion among female readers and maybe also among some men. The best way to test whether what I say true is to do the field work.

    When you get some field experience in seduction, you will soon notice that woman’s behavior is completely under the influence of those two instincts.

    Try to believe.

    To reach the two above described purposes she has to manipulate the man and make him dependent upon her by using sex and any other means, legal or illegal.

    An effective way can be to make him feel guilty; another can be to be maternal to him to have him become dependent. The means used can be several and infinite. Anyway, the most effective way to have a male dependent is of course sex!

    After having obtained the male with the better genes, the woman needs to obtain his fidelity in order to protect the children. For thousands of years lacking a man’s protection would have meant for the woman her own death and the death of her children as well.

    In the modern society a woman can be completely independent of a male’s protection – like it happens for independent women living in countries with a high social level such as the Scandinavian countries – or she can be dependent upon a man for all of her life in countries at low a economic level.

    Anyway, independent of social factors, a woman’s behavior on a primordial instinctual level is this: she has to have a man remain faithful to her for a certain period. She has also to deal with the competition from other females all the time. To obtain what she needs, she is willing and able to do almost anything.

    She cannot take the risk that her man would go on to inseminate other women. These instincts are hardwired in a woman’s brain and she cannot act against them or at least she can only “try” to act against them.

    Now a very important subject from the point of view of seduction: a less romantic aspect of these biological and genetic instincts is that as soon as the woman feels she has obtained her purpose – having her man dependent on her using various means – she starts to slowly loose her interest in him on the sexual level.

    This happens if the man has stopped being a challenge for her!!!

    She is forced to decrease the amount of sex because if she gives everything to her man, his “hunger is satisfied” and she can risk loosing his support. Then the man would have no reason anymore to support her and do what she says. On the other hand, if she refuses of sex completely, there is the risk that he could find other women and she could loose him completely.

    These factors are the basis of the PNP mechanism (PNP = Positive Negative Positive stimulus.)

    I will describe this mechanism later in this book. Here I will tell you only briefly about the PNP mechanism, which I will describe in more detail later in this book.

    A woman’s strategy for keeping a man faithful to her is: give him sex (P) and refuse it little bit (N) and give him sex again (P) in an alternate fashion.

    Due to this mechanism there is a basic attitude in the woman you need to get to know if you want to become an expert seducer. You can use woman’s primordial and biological aspects to seduce her in only one way:

    “In words, acts and omissions you need to demonstrate to her that she cannot have you.”

    You want a happy marriage with a beautiful and sexually active woman? Give her a “little bit” of yourself but keep her always in uncertainty so that she can never be sure of having you.

    You want to keep alive rapport with the woman you have seduced? The technique is the same: she must never be sure of having you.

    You must be for her a constant challenge. Women are biologically programmed to feel as the “Prince of their dreams” only the man whom they cannot have.

    A simple example: I am sure, that women married to tough leaders, who are complaining all the time about how their men “are all the time at work” in reality highly admire their men on a primordial level because those men are for their women a constant challenge.

    She can never be sure to having him and that makes him interesting and unattainable. He – who has such good genes – is always out there “on the road” in meetings and executives committees, with female secretaries and female colleagues in short skirts close to him.

    Acting in such a way that you are always for her a challenge, you put your woman’s evolutionary detector into a state of alert. This results in an exponential growth of her sexual interest for you.

    At this point I see you already shouting: “But this is so easy! Why didn’t I think of it before?” Wrong! It is not easy. It is very difficult.

    You will be obliged to train yourself constantly to obtain this with all the mental strength you have because Nature created for the man a trap, seduction’s enemy number one: “the subservient frame.”

    In fact men too are “slaves of genetics and evolution.” A man’s brain also makes mistakes as well as woman’s brain.

    The subservient frame is an aberration of the normal instinct of protection that a virile man normally feels for the woman and the children. When a ship goes down, the Captain shouts: “women and children first!” A strong and healthy man feels a natural instinct to protect other human beings whom he perceives as “weaker.”

    A woman can influence this male instinct in such an effective way that she can put the man in a state of complete psychological slavery.

    The slavery starts when you are put by her or you put yourself in a subservient mental frame.

    Nature programmed man by giving him a strong instinct to be protective of a woman.

    This instinct expresses itself as an invincible need to protect, help, please the woman, partly for absolutely non-egoistic purposes and partly to obtain sex and affection.

    This instinct goes – in particular in modern society – against the interests of the man. In a couple-relationship it often brings to a slow death to a woman’s sexual desire and also often leads to divorce. Let’s learn to recognize the subservient mental frame and eliminate it.

    The subservient frame is seduction’s enemy number one.

  5. The subservient frame and the PNP- mechanism

    The PNP mechanism is a behavioral psychological and biological mechanism creating addiction.

    To be able to have a man connected to her for a time long enough for procreation and for her children to reach independence a woman subconsciously uses the PNP mechanism and puts the man – without his noticing it – in a mental state called the subservient mental state.

    Nature has predisposed the man to fall into woman’s PNP mechanism giving him a strong instinct of protection toward the woman along with a formidable sexual instinct.

    This instinct for protection protects life, but in many males – let’s admit it: the majority of males – reaches such limits that it puts the man in a state of psychological dependence upon and enslavement by the woman, which is the subservient mental state. All men should be kept by law from getting married or involved in a long-term relationship before they become expert seducers and have laid at least 50 women!

    When a man acts under the influence of the subservient mental state, he speaks and acts in the subservient mental frame, which we will learn to recognize and eliminate with the help of this book.

    This frame is one of the major reasons for failure in your attempts to seduce a woman and the basis for a major loss of sexual interest on the part of the woman in a marriage or a long-term relationship.

    When a woman succeeds in putting a man into that state two things happen:

    A. The woman slowly looses her sexual interest for that man.

    B. She starts to despise that man and looses respect for him. As you all understand, it is impossible to love a man whom you despise.

    This process is the cause of many divorces and infidelities in marriage. The process can be very fast – hours, days – or slower: the duration of a marriage, but it happens anyway, without mercy and with a mathematical precision.

    We can define the subservient mental state like this:

    “The subservient frame is any word, action and omission by which a man puts himself in a humiliating position, displays to the woman that he cannot live without her, is in position of submission to her with the purpose of obtaining from her attention and sex. It is any word, action and omission, by which a man gives the woman the possibility of putting him down psychologically, acting against his interests, lacking respect for him.”

    The subservient state is like a green light, telling the woman that she has reached her evolutionary purpose: the man is now hers and she owns him. But there is a big problem in this: it is also like a signal telling her “He is not a real man anymore.” Ironic: the same mechanism for making her sure to possess a man with the best genes, a companion and a father for her children has her loosing her sexual interest for her man. Many men “sense” at that point “something strange” and start to do stupid things like drinking alcohol or gambling or staying out of the home all the time in order to get themselves back into the Alpha state (look further in this book for the Alpha and beta states) but it is already too late.

    In fact how could a woman respect anymore a man who lets her put him from the first very moment into such a miserable state? How could a woman respect a man who gives up his dignity for sex and affection? Impossible!

    In this book I teach men how to start a relationship with a woman so that the guy will never enter the subservient mental state and how the guy can keep himself out of this state further in the relationship as well and thus enjoy a happy sexual and emotional relationship with her.

    To become an expert seducer you need to learn how to put yourself in a nonsubservient position toward a woman. A man who is not in a subservient position is an irresistible aphrodisiac for a woman. I will explain in this book how you can reach this result.

    But what is the PNP mechanism, which the woman uses to put the man into a subservient state? To understand it we need now to get interested in a phenomenon called addiction.

    The mechanism of addiction is the mechanism that has us become dependent on alcohol, drugs or chocolate and it is practically the same as the mechanism a woman uses to get the man into a subservient state.

    It happens in this way: when we drink a glass of whisky or we take a drug or we enjoy chocolate:

    P = we feel deep pleasurable sensations = the pleasure stimulus.

    N = at this point we feel a deep need to drink more or have more drug or chocolate = absence of the pleasure stimulus.

    P = we are forced to drink another glass or take more drug or the chocolate = again the pleasure stimulus.

    The repetition of PNP cycle brings us to a dependence upon alcohol, drugs or chocolate. The factor bringing us to dependence is pleasure and even more the fact that the pleasure is not continuous. So in fact, the negative stimulus of the PNP mechanism is the regulating factor.

    The gratification given by a dose of alcohol or a drug causes a chemical storm in the brain and brings about the desire to have more pleasure. The brain’s chemical mediators, such as the dopamine, endorphin, and serotonin activate and cause pleasure, which is at the basis of the addiction.

    Practically speaking, a woman does exactly the same to a man.

    The purpose of her primordial instincts is to have a man attached to her – to be exact, the one who has the best genes – and to have him desire to impregnate her and even more to protect her for the time necessary for taking care of the children. And it happens like this:

    P = She shows us her legs and we get excited.

    N = We try to touch her and she withdraws.

    P = She shows her legs again and we get excited again.

    Or

    P = She agrees to make love with us and we feel pleasure.

    N = She refuses to make love with us and we remain alone with our desire.

    P = She agrees again to make love and we get pleasure again.

    In this way the woman elicits a state of addiction to herself which permits her to have the man attached to her for a time long enough to allow for taking care of her children.

    Inasmuch as man’s sexual instinct is overwhelming, a man cannot resist this and starts to serve the woman, to do her favors, to buy her flowers and gifts and tries to buy the chance to have sex with her by using all the means at his disposal.

    This is practically the same mental state as that of the drug abuser when he will do anything to find himself his next “fix.”

    The more a man has an overwhelming sexual instinct, the more effectively woman’s PNP mechanism works on him.

    Why does a man remain a slave of the subservient mental state and of the PNP mechanism? The principal reason is the same as why a woman behaves as she does: it is hardwired in man’s evolutionary instincts.

    Evolution has programmed a man genetically and biologically at the instinctual level to want sex with a woman in an irresistible and overwhelming way.

    This makes of the man a propagator of genes. This causes the man to do extremely humiliating acts as paying prostitutes to have sex with him.

    As a young adult I always wondered what puts a man in such a humiliating state as paying to have sex with prostitutes! – I have had a lot of sex in my life, but I have never been to a prostitute.

    I have seduced two prostitutes in my life so that I got it for free, yes! But I have never paid a woman for sex. I would never do that.

    Well, the answer is: evolution and the addiction caused by the mechanism PNP! It is the instinctual imperative to propagate one’s genes.

    This instinct to propagate through pleasure is so strong that a man is ready to pay a prostitute, who – in the depths of her heart – despises him, while at the same time making love to him.

    Most men believe that doing a woman favors and being in a subservient mental frame will result in his seducing her and having sex with her.

    Wrong!

    It has the opposite result. She interprets the situation on an instinctual level: he is mine; I can do with him what I want!

    The more she succeeds in getting him into a subservient frame, the more she looses interest in that man, while pretending to be still interested.

    Man’s subservient behavior enters generally into a marriage or a long term relationship if it is the woman’s intention to obtain a marriage or a long term relationship. Almost always it leads to an unhappy and unsuccessful relationship.

    At the precise moment the woman senses she has succeeded in having the man attached to her by using the PNP mechanism she starts to prolong the N (negative stimulus) of the mechanism, in one way or another.

    I have observed the mechanism in the hundreds of women I have seduced. It manifests itself with an impressive mathematical precision, sometimes already at the first meeting.

    The same woman who was at the beginning of the relationship very hot starts slowly to refuse sex in order to reinforce the man’s addiction to the maximum level. I can almost hear the accusations of feminists. Modern woman expresses her sexual desire! We are not nuns anymore!

    It is true: modern woman has learned – thank God! – to accept her sexual desire.

    Let’s be realistic anyway! She can very easily use the PNP mechanism with the man, whom she wants to be the father of her children and feel sexual pleasure with her lover. That is what women did secretly in the past and do now quite openly in modern society.

    For this reason this is a golden century for lovers and playboys and a dark century for husbands and fathers. I hope my book will make good seducers and at the same time help husbands and fathers to put themselves in a win-win position again. A woman has so many choices nowadays. She can, for example, interrupt her relationship with a man who is in the role of father and husband. After a while she can find another one willing to fulfill the role of father to her children, while perhaps having fun with a playboy as well. There are so many different combinations.

    This takes absolutely nothing away from the existence of the PNP mechanism.

    In fact at an instinctual level she senses that if the man is satisfied all the time – the “P” of mechanism PNP – he will never develop the “abstinence syndrome” – the “N” of mechanism PNP. In that case she will never be sure did she have him attached to her for the long term. This explains very well why so many wives refuse to give sex to their men while at the same time they sit in parliaments deciding about the abolition of prostitution.

    Prostitutes help their men out of the power of their PNP mechanism and they even make money by doing it!

    On an instinctual level a woman senses that if a man does not remain dependent on her, he will very rapidly be able to go with other women and start the reproductive cycle with them. This would be very bad business for her. His genes would go in a different direction. Obviously this is very good business for Nature because this divergence between man and woman ensures genetic variability!

    A woman cannot afford to make mistakes in the choice of genes. So she needs to give to the man only that little which is enough to keep him attached to her and not more.

    She needs to be very good in “dosing out” the “N” of the PNP mechanism.

    I have seduced women who are real artists at this. They are able to prolong the “N” the PNP mechanism exactly as much as is needed in order to do with the man all what they want and after which they can think to themselves: “What an idiot!” I have also met women who are so scared themselves by the power of this mechanism that they told me – with absolute sincerity – from the beginning: “I would like to have a man who does not do always what I want.”

    Very often women tell me during a conversation “I hope you will never let me put you down!” They know that I am a playboy and they cannot tell tales to me. So they are sincere with me about this. Being a playboy means hearing stories some other men are never told.

    And now we arrive at the best part! How to use this mechanism to seduce women in an irresistible way!!!

    In theory it is very simple. It is enough to invert the PNP mechanism in favor of the man. In practice, however, it is not as simple as it might seem. You will need application and practice to succeed in it.

    In fact to succeed you will need to fight against a group of very strong instincts which nature has given to men.

    Tell me: which one of you has not at least once in your life dreamed of dying with a military uniform for the Homeland, children and women? Don’t lie! I know you have.

    The instincts and the mental frames you will need to fight against are:

    a. The subservient mental frame, which is enemy number one of seduction.

    b. The instinct to protect the woman. – From what for Christ’s sake?

    c. Your sexual desire. The stronger your sexual desire is, the more difficult you will find it to fight against the subservient mental state. On the contrary, you need to be conscious about the fact that the more you are sexually active, the more you will need to be careful not to fall into the trap of her PNP.

    Before you aim your guns at me I say: I don’t mean you should not have sex. I mean you need only to be aware of this.

    d. The mechanism of addiction in the case the woman has already succeeded in getting you attached by using her PNP and you are already subservient toward her. This is an area where this book can help certain husbands and boyfriends a lot.

    The ideal situation is one in which you never remain in that state of addiction to her and are still able to love her and get love from her. Once you are in the subservient mental state, however, it is very difficult to get out of it.

    Anyway, Franco tells you in this book how to free yourself from this addiction in case that has happened to you in the chapter: “The One Option’s Distortion.”

    In connection with this argument is very important to read and understand the chapter: “Fidelity and Seduction: a new context” and also the chapter dedicated to: “Multiple Long Term Relationships (MLTR.)” A really effective way to get you out of addiction is withdrawal from a woman with another woman. We go to this delicate argument further in this book.

    To invert the PNP in favor of the man:

    “You have to put the woman in a mental state where she is always one step closer to conquering your exclusivity, without completely succeeding in doing so. You need to be for her a constant challenge!”

    In practice this means never give to a woman the certainty that she possesses your genes! This is exactly the opposite of buying flowers, doing favors, paying her bills, exactly the opposite of the subservient mental state.

    This is the principal reason for which men who have the reputations of being real jerks have so much success with women. A woman is compelled to try PNP with them.

    As she does not succeed in it, she is forced by her instincts to try again and again. Jerks simply take advantage of this.

    An important corollary of this process is: “To maintain a woman’s excitation and sexual desire on a constantly high level, you need to never give the woman the sureness of being exclusively her man!”

    This concept can be used as a means for seduction and as a means for keeping alive a long-term emotional and sexual relationship or a marriage.

    Also, once you have become an expert seducer, you will be able to use PNP to tease a woman in the same way as a woman uses it to tease a man. If you don’t want to be a husband and you are not looking for a wife, using PNP you can keep your lovers in a perfect state of constant excitation.

    Let’s now go deeper into the practice on how to invert PNP and not be in the subservient frame of mind.

    Let’s observe these two phrases. He wants seduce a really beautiful woman, Mary, who works in the department close to his.

    A.” Hello Mary, how do you do? It would be so nice to go to movie together. I never had the courage to tell you this. I like you so much. If you go out with me, if you’ll be my date I’ll also take you to eat something in a classy restaurant.”

    B. “Hello Mary, how do you do? What a rush today! This evening I have a meeting at my company and later I’m going to the gym. After that I am packing for my summer vacation.
    I have a break between five and six. I’ll be having coffee in my favorite bar. Would you like to join me, I’d like to hear about your vacation!”

    Do you see the difference? Maybe you see it.

    Well there is a difference and it is extremely important. The first phrase is structured in a very subservient way.

    It is the classic approach: I pay for a nice movie and a dinner for you and you go out with me!

    Your seduction starts very, very badly. She may have received the same invitation at least a dozen times the same day.

    You are practically telling her: ”I am ready to give myself away for next to nothing, I am ready to do anything to spend the evening with you.”

    She interprets on the instinctual level: ”He is a weak man, what garbage.” Of course, unless she is looking for a husband, she turns down the invitation.

    If you marry this woman, her requests will soon become bigger and bigger.

    One day you will find yourself in the situation that she has full access to your bank account during the day and refuses to give sex to you during the night, or – even worse – she will fake orgasms when in the bed with you.

    Then she will tell her girlfriends what an impotent idiot you are.

    Phrase b. instead is something really different. He is in effect saying: ”I am a successful man; I do not have very much time at my disposal. I use my free time to take care of myself (the gym) and relax (the bar, the coffee.) It’s okay for you come to tell me something about you.“

    She is invited to qualify herself to him to have the possibility of spending some time with him (I’ll explain what “qualifying” means in terms of seduction later on in the book.)

    He invites her to qualify herself to him and not the other way around.

    This phrase is an example on how you can frame your words in a non-subservient way.

    It is the beginning of a good seduction. An approach like this means establishing a strong PNP in your favor from the very beginning.

    So be aware of your words, phrases and attitudes and the way you frame them from the very beginning when trying to seduce a woman!

    The same thing applies to action and inaction.

    When you have arranged to meet, she always arrives late without apologizing whereas you always arrive on time without saying anything.

    Good. You believe in being a well-behaved gentleman. You don’t say a word and are always on time. She interprets this as: ”I have him doing what I want. He is not even able to tell me anything. He is not able to ask for respect!”

    She calls you only once a week. You call her ten times a day and send her hundreds text messages a week with your mobile. You believe you are romantic and also showing erotic interest. She interprets: “I have him doing what I want. He has lost his head completely for my legs. And what an idiot! He calls me all the time!”

    Yes I know this is so different from what your parents and teachers taught you.

    But that is the way things are! If you want one or more beautiful woman ready to do anything for you, it is better to start to learn how to touch the right strings or do without it! The truth hurts, but truth is the best start for changing things for the better.

    From the point of view of seduction the right approach is:

    – When you arrange to meet, arrive a little bit later than her.

    – She calls you five times but maybe you call her once.

    Doing it like that, you will have her considering you to be of superior value when compared to other men.

    You will be the one who prolongs or shortens the “N” of the PNP. She will not be the one to do that.

    Based on my experience with women, this maintains their erotic desire on an extremely high level. But be careful! You need to be good in dosing out the “N.”

    Too long an “N” may have you loosing the woman.

    No one can stand being on the edge for too long a time. You need to give something too, just like women do. Give just something, but not too much.

    The art of PNP is the art of “the right length of the “N.” It is the art of “the right length of the Negative Stimulus.”

    So train yourself:

    – To observe the content of what you say to a woman and to eliminate all the contents framed in a subservient way and substitute them with more appropriate ones.

    – To monitor your action and inaction: are you behaving in a subservient way? Are you forgetting to say or to do something to get yourself out you coming out from the subservient frame you put yourself in without noticing? Fix this!

    – Are you the one doing the PNP to her or is she the one doing the PNP to you? You absolutely need to invert the situation and later you will need to be good in “dosing out” the “N” in the appropriate way.

    For example: you meet her in a bar and you succeed in picking her up. You obtain her telephone number. She says she is generally at home at 9pm. You call her and all you get is an answering machine. Any time you call there is the answering machine.

    Good. It is a test! And it is her attempt to control you by using the PNP.

    She is waiting for the moment you say the magic subservient words to the answering machine: ”I have been trying to call you for such a long time, Darling! I am awaiting with anxiety the moment I can meet you! Are you sure you are okay baby?”

    Wrong, wrong, wrong!

    She has already succeeded in doing the PNP on you! Women are fast and very good in this art. Most men never realize this. By using the answering machine, she has already succeeded in putting you in a subservient frame.

    The correct approach is: never talk to an answering machine!

    Call her from a private number and talk to her only if she answers. If she does not answer wait at least one week before calling her again. If there is no sign from her, you call her only after another week but you don’t tell her you miss her, you tell something along the line:

    ”Hi, How are you? I was in Barbados. What a wonderful place! I met an interesting type there, an English lady; she told me a really funny story. Listen to this!“

    Then you tell her the funny story and end the conversation without promising her anything.

    You are now the one doing the PNP on her. She will think or better feel on her instinctual level: “What a self-confident guy! Maybe it would be better to be nicer to him. Maybe he is already in contact with that English lady.” If she does not contact you, tease her even more.

    You call her again and tell her another funny story. This time it was a French female photographer you met in another town. She will not be able to resist. Sooner or later she will be eager to see you and will do something to show this.

    Obviously the above example is a bit simple and banal. With practice, however, you will be able to use the above strategy smoothly by “hiding” it in the context of a normal conversation.

    An important rule: if you are forced to choose between the women you want to seduce or break the rule of the PNP, it is in any case always better and in your favor to loose the woman.

    You would loose her anyway in the long run if the PNP is in her favor – at any rate you would loose her as a sexual being and loose her respect, too – and even more you would enter the subservient state in a much more painful way than if you had let her go from the beginning.

    The PNP must be always in your favor: you must never let yourself to be in a subservient mental state in the course of a seduction or in a long term relationship.

    Always apply the above rule: it is a formula for masculine erotic happiness.

  6. Heh, this is a chapter in Franco’s book that is similar to the latest Julien fast rate meetup stuff.

    Fast rate PNP technique

    The concept of “teasing” or “flirting” means “causing sudden feelings in her”, “moving her emotionally”, “exciting her”, “shaking her”, in practice it means “sexually possessing her mind.”

    The majority of men believe that to possess a woman means bringing her to bed and having sex with her. To possess a woman means, first of all, “shaking her mind and her feelings, to bring to bed the mind before the body.”

    Sex is a natural consequence of the fact that the seducer succeeds in “shaking, possessing her mind at an emotional level.”

    Qualification/disqualification is one of the many ways of seducing her, one of the bases of teasing; observe this technique.

    The seducer does a series of qualifying remarks on her in a rapid sequence. This is also based in part on the PNP.

    He takes some photos of her and tells her in a direct and impudent manner phrases such as these in which qualification and disqualification alternate in rapid sequence.

    “No, no, I could never hang around with you; you are too serious for me.”

    “Ok, ok, don’t get upset by that. Of course, I like you, you are perfect.”

    “No, no, don’t put those legs in that position. Didn’t anyone ever teach you how to pose?”

    “Ok, that’s perfect, what a beautiful smile! I have never seen anyone smile like that.”

    “Nooo! A silver bracelet! Where did you buy it, in Bangkok? How can you wear something like that?”

    Do you understand? He shakes her mind by using this particular form of PNP, the “Fast Rate PNP Technique.”

    This seduction system is fabulous for lowering women’s defense levels and seducing them. The Fast Rate PNP Technique works because it causes in the woman a “rapid change of mental state” lowering her defense level so that seducing her becomes easier.

    In practice you bombard her with positive and negative stimulus so that she comes out from an indifferent and disinterested state and quickly enters an excited state.

    She directs excessive attention to her own reactions and emotions (becomes selfconscious) in addition she feels attraction because she cannot understand whether you are interested or you are making fun of her and so on.

    In addition, it is very important for a woman to understand whether you are interested just to her and, by the Fast Rate PNP-technique you put her in an uncertainty state about this which is, for the majority of women, impossible to resist.

    To understand how this happens read again the chapter about mental state.

    In addition the Fast Rate PNP-technique technique has many other very important effects:

    – As long as you use it, it is you who is in control of the context of what it is said in the relationship. Actually it’s for you to put her in a condition of having to apologize, to qualify herself to you, of being unsure about whether you are interested in her or not and so on. And this is considered a sign of dominance on your part.

    – As long as you use it, you raise your value above hers because she is being judged by you and not the opposite.

    In this technique there is also the implicit message: “I am a man who has chances with women. I can allow myself to judge them, to make them qualify themselves to me.” And this is a sign that you are an Alpha male. The woman’s genetic system interprets it as: “He judges and qualifies me: he is for sure one who knows his job, one who has chances with women.” This plays absolutely to your advantage with women! She feels attraction towards a man who takes the freedom to qualify her and gives himself a higher value than hers.

    Value calibration: when using this technique you’d better try, at the same time, to quickly understand at which level she sets her own value. Indeed if you set your value too much higher than hers, you get the same negative result you would get by prolonging the “N” too much in the PNP technique: you loose her.

    When you become expert, you’ll learn to use the right Fast Rate PNP-technique enough that it raises your value compared to hers, but not too much. The same applies for the technique/attitude of next chapter.

  7. Cool! I was one of the ones who was skeptical about dividing these out, as my personal experience was that I was needlessly distrustful of PUA before seeing how it actually worked demonstrated in the main comment stream.

    But I can see the advantages to this system too. For example, I wanted to break down that FR IAS just posted but had like 5 other things in the thread to reply to as well and so may well have not gotten to it.

    We’ll see how it goes.

    @IAS

    This set opens pretty strong, you just don’t seem to know what to do with it. Plan for the close.

    “I was at the other edge then, so I go “might as well!” and go sit between the couple and the 3-set, open the girl that is now closest to me (HB-A), tell her the table isn’t really ours, I just sat down (she was really surprised at that) and then start “How do you know each other” (met in high school) blah blah. Middle one (HB-P), far one has a bit of see-through on her dress showing some cleavage (HB-V). I get up, grab a balloon from the ceiling and bring it to HB-A. HB-P ties it to her hand and says “That is so sweet!” And I’m like “Come on, I just grabbed it, it is not like I paid for it”, then see HB-A has a wrist tattoo, touch it (HB-A was surprised) and ask “Your name?”, so she tells me “I’m HB-A”. I just go and ask the other two as well. HB-P asks mine and I say “In a moment”, get HB-V name first, which was hard to get at first due to noise and distance but then I got it and make a joke about it making them laugh.

    Push/pull, dynamic. I’m not going to go into it line-by-line but when you look at that see how the things you’re doing push then pull. Good. Even getting up (‘where’s he going?’ – a push) and getting a balloon (pull) works on this dynamic. That spiked things then you escalated with the first bit of kino. Good.

    “Finally I give them my name and they all laugh (didn’t understand why).”

    You’d built a bit of tension – they wanted to know your name – and so they laughed when you relieved that tension.

    “The other 2 are a bit on their phones so I tease them about that, lean around the back of HB-A to peek and such.

    Not bad, try a cool story to engage interest in this situ.

    “I must have done something successful with HB-V, as she got up from her seat, crouches in front and below me (I’m still sitting down) and is talking to me saying she works in a different country and is here for the weekend with her friends – this is with her face just a few inches away from mine and a bit below so I just kept looking at her eyes while chatting.

    Well, this is yours to fuck up basically. You see how she’s giving you her logistics so you can make something happen? From here you just….sort of assume it’s a done deal if you can find a way to get alone with her without her friends judging her, and without spiking her ASD. Basically you can start talking in code with her, all ‘oh yeah, you staying with your friends then?’ (laser eye contact). Keep the logistics screening, keep the push/pull going, you both know what you’re doing at this point – seeing if you can make something happen, not having idle small talk.

    “That was pretty intense for me, and she had her cleavage just down from her eyes as well.

    She knows.

    “After explaining she was only here for a few days blah blah, she went back to her seat and back on her phone.

    Eventually HB-V finally got in the mood for the dance floor (I also kind of wonder in hindsight if the best play there was to get HB-A and HB-P dancing, and go back to HB-V which is meanwhile isolated).

    She probably girl-coded with her friends so they bailed to leave you two together to figure shit out w/o fear of judgement.

    Instead you leave her all stifled on her phone waiting for something to happen as you go and have fun. Not terrible, ain’t nothing wrong with making a girl a bit uncertain in your interest, but then you didn’t ever pick it up.

    “It was getting late (for me), 1:00

    lol good luck with that. Last time I pulled a new plate for the first time we were up until…like 5:30 AM consummating that shit. You want it to be a girl you can’t get enough of after all.

    “I got HB-P isolated briefly so I picked her up and twirled and danced a bit closer to her

    good, now what?

    Do you think she would do that with a guy who she didn’t find attractive?

    What do you think girls do with guys that they’re attracted to?

    I’m giving you shit here lol but really this is a great step in the right direction for you. I’m just trying to make the lesson tell. An N-1 guy like you needs a bit of pushing to see how subtle and common the signs are that a girl will bang you. It would blow most guys’ minds to know how many girls they could sleep with if they just knew it.

    “then the others returned, I waited some 10 or 20 minutes more, said “I’m going to sleep”. They were a bit surprised and I think HB-V and HB-P were disappointed, but maybe I’m imagining things. Hand shake on HB-V, hugged HB-P, hand shake on HB-A.

    “When picking a girl up, is it better to just grab their waist and twirl (so they are mostly vertical), or like I’ve seen Owen in some vids grabbing them up behind knees and back so they are somewhat horizontal?

    two considerations. First, the vertical way has full frontal body contact, so you usually need to do this with a girl who’s used to touching you. The horizontal way you can open with. Second, the horizontal way isn’t good for a crowded area, you need some space for it.

    Good going out there man!

  8. @forge

    Cool! I was one of the ones who was skeptical about dividing these out, as my personal experience was that I was needlessly distrustful of PUA before seeing how it actually worked demonstrated in the main comment stream.

    But I can see the advantages to this system too. For example, I wanted to break down that FR IAS just posted but had like 5 other things in the thread to reply to as well and so may well have not gotten to it.

    sure, I originally was for a FR section months ago, and it still may work out, but it was more the way in which it was implemented that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    remember, all RSD vids were originally to be banned — and they were for a time — and some of them were deleted with out any discussion at all. Everything that’s happened so far — the disclaimer, the new section, could have been easily hashed out with no drama.

    A lot of this feels like it only happened because there was protest for it to happen, otherwise it wouldn’t have. And I feel like this is still one foot out the door.

    Like I said, we’ll see, but I’d be keeping an eye out for another place to do FRs.

    A shame, but like I said in the past, the actions that occurred here were done intentionally, could have been carried out very differently, and the ways to do that amicably were and are very obviously, but it was intentionally chosen NOT to do that, and instead opt to start drama.

  9. @forge @yareally @culum

    Not much new. Girl I # closed at work…

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/26/the-unbearable-rightness-of-being-female/comment-page-8/#comment-181189

    (its after the video)

    … exchanged the item when I was at work, but didn’t come to see me then. She texted me later to say she got a new number and to text her. I waited a day, and texted her “so what was that about?” she texted back “sorry, about what?” and I called her to get her on voice. She didn’t answer. So I texted her again “lol about the number.” and she said “lol, oh yeah the number.” and that was it. Was expecting her to answer, but she didn’t. And I’m not sure how to proceed on the text since texting is basically a graveyard. Lots of teasing I could have done, but it won’t work over text. Had I gotten her on voice, I could have done it easy, and I was going to push her to meet me at a cafe that is close to where she lives. Like I said though her not answering threw me off.

    Other than that, lots of married girls at work. Same girl as has been there before with husband. Lots of eye contact with her and she returned it. Felt like there was attraction the last time, had the same feeling here.

    Had another girl, new girl today. Chatted her up as I was about to leave, had to head in back, saw her again after I clocked out. More talking. All attraction here, nothing extreme, but just being generally engaged in convo. She mentioned though about “how we moved here 5 years ago…we did this.” intentionally asked questions like this to try to suss out if she was married, and she seems to be. We were out in the open here, so couldn’t do much, plus this is a smaller town where I work so it would be very difficult and inadvisable to start something here lol.

  10. @IAS

    “I warm up by … ” (pauragraph)
    Probably a good idea to prepare a stack of routines for this situation (since there are often bored bartenders around), see MM.

    “Also I imagine it is pretty hard to pull in that context as girls don’t want to get pulled in front of coworkers”
    Get group approval and try and get the number/make plans secretly. Also logistics of what the group is doing is v important (ask them). Note HB-V’s temporary situation.

    “I also kind of wonder in hindsight if the best play there was to get HB-A and HB-P dancing, and go back to HB-V which is meanwhile isolated”
    “I got HB-P isolated briefly so I picked her up and twirled and danced a bit closer to he”
    This. ‘Hey I’ve lost your friends, let’s go for a drink..” you absolutely have to act on these windows, forget about showing disinterst if you have an opportunity of isolation with so many distractions.

    “They were a bit surprised and I think HB-V and HB-P were disappointed, but maybe I’m imagining things”
    They probably enjoyed your company.

    Reading your FR I’m unsure if you actually wanted to hit on one of the three-set girls (or settle with them), or if you were trying to get something else in the club. I also have this problem that I end up passing the whole evening chatting with lots of different people and don’t commit to sets. You need time to go into comfort at some point, if you were planning on leaving at 1am you should take this into account. I’m trying to force myself into choosing the right quality set to stick to during the night.

    Also try and find out the logistics of the 3-sets and act accordingly (aim for SNL or number-bridge accordingly).

    IAS – Which of the girls were good enough for you standards and what order of preference would you have chosen?

  11. Ok.Just to be clear, I got this monotone, non emotional vibe. Something that is a cutltivated thiing bordering on autism with me. It is a cultivated thing for me. I like the hell out of my rationalism. You guys have seen it and have been frightened by it.

    Now that we have a field report section, I’m going to call IAS out for something. A big something.

    And may the PUA gods forgive me, and may IAS himself forgive me for divulging somerthing he has never.

    Ok, Sigh. IAS has autism spectrum disorder. And as thus he is limited in his feelings while gaming. Not trying to out you IAS, just trying to help you.

    Despite my OMG leanings, I am advocating for you to lean out on your edge. Really far to it and make your wife actully get pissed at your “away” adventures. And when you are back home, because she is “low self esteem” make her serve you. Because she is your wife.

    Life is to short to pussyfoot around. And not get laid.

    My apologizing to IAS if I’m stepping over a line. But Yeesus, Man somethings are just not said in real time.

  12. @Rollo

    “Is anyone interested in having the option for Markdown code in the comments? (Reddit style formatting)”

    I’m not so non-ignorant as to know what the question is.

    Can you rephrase it?

    I don’t know what Markdown code is and reddit fomatting scares the shit out of me.

  13. @SJF, if you’re not familiar with how Reddit does its formatting you probably wont care, but it’s a more simplified way of formatting text (bolding, italics, block quotes, etc.)

  14. Hank

    Like I said, we’ll see, but I’d be keeping an eye out for another place to do FRs.

    Stop putting up buffers for your buffers… There are entire sites solely for PUA with zero other content. Join Sedfast and post there to your hearts content

    http://www.pua-zone.com/

    But you will not get the sweet sugar coating all the time…

  15. “When picking a girl up, is it better to just grab their waist and twirl (so they are mostly vertical), or like I’ve seen Owen in some vids grabbing them up behind knees and back so they are somewhat horizontal?

    two considerations. First, the vertical way has full frontal body contact, so you usually need to do this with a girl who’s used to touching you. The horizontal way you can open with. Second, the horizontal way isn’t good for a crowded area, you need some space for it.

    You can do this to girls you just meet easily… just open your arms and when she comes in to hug, hug her and lift her up. You can lift her and spin her around at the same time. They love that…

  16. My fingers do get tired trying to format shit. But never to the extent that it Trumped my enthusiasm. This shit is great.

    I think Roused gave you some WordPress suggestions for plug-in-formatting. Count my vote as I don’t know. (Ignorant)

  17. @Rollo

    I find markdown to be a lot more intuitive than HTML.

    If you decide to use it for this thread, it’d probably be a good idea to put a link in the OP to an article about how to use it.

  18. @Sentient

    Heh, fair enough. I have seen that done. Suppose the trick there is to see if she reciprocates with her body language when you open your arms. But that’s a great compliance hoop.

    I should try that one. Don’t know why I haven’t.

  19. Yeah do it on any girl who will hug you… especially if you have said nothing to her at all, just open your arms and see what she does…

  20. @SJF

    Regardless of whether you’re crossing a line here, it makes it difficult for a guy to confide in you if he’s not sure whether or not you’ll decide it’s for his better good to divulge it.

  21. @Sentient

    Ya I think it’s likely to be a great exercise for newer guys (who have at least passable subcoms). You can just hug, spin, and bail if you don’t have the chops to stay in-set, and you get reference experiences for how much you can do with a girl at hello.

  22. To make some replies:

    @SJF is correct, I am a bit spergy (but apparently Owen from RSD is even more so than me, so it is a question of learning). Also married and long distance.

    @N1: because of personal circumstances, I’m not wanting to F close at this stage (I didn’t even have condoms on me on this trip), but I really want to know how to do it or lacking that, be able to open strangers and DHV etc.
    Other than not actually wanting to F, all the girls of the 3-set were hot enough for me. I found HB-A prettier, HB-V second prettier, but HB-P (which I danced with more) was probably the hottest body of the 3. They were kind of comparable. I have a bias for pretty faces over hot bodies so I’d probably pick A over the other two. Also I think I’m not very picky, from some of the HB-ratings I’ve seen here.

    @Hank: Because I want to get experience I tried to merge sets a few times usually without success and tried some completely cold approaches – I did it in the opposite side of the club precisely because I wanted to try in context where I didn’t have the pre-selection “bonus” (which I kind of lucked into due to the table thing and may not be so lucky in other nights).

    @Forge: When HB-V did that 1-on-1 thing rather early in the interaction it passed through my mind that she was literally telling me “I’m here tonight to have fun” and indirectly “I’m DTF”. I should have screened right there to know where she was staying (with her friends? on some hotel?).

  23. For the OMG’S who don’t want to close; doesn’t matter. Don’t close if that is your choice but leans to flirt and Game strange chicks. It will pay off in more ways then I can countil. Lestwise with my boots on. If nothing else it will get you better service with women. At a restaurant or at the post office. Won’t matter

    #2 & much more important, your status among men will improve.

  24. Ain’t no place perfect. Ain’t no man right all the time.

    Don’t know why we have to harp on each other so. It’s some dogmatic shit. Like madonna/whore complex applied to other men.

    Christ.

  25. @SFCTon: ”

    For the OMG’S who don’t want to close; doesn’t matter. Don’t close if that is your choice but leans to flirt and Game strange chicks.”

    Word.

    Friday:

    Sat with wife at bar. Next to me HB 7+ 24 y.o. with dude friend, both on phones.

    Me: “Hi. I’m here to make your night more interesting.” and ask her who’s the dude friend. (After work drinks) To her: “Oh, nice Warby-Parkers, yeah…your glasses.” (Thanks)

    “There called trouble glasses for a reason, ya know.” and tease her about hipness being so 2015. I pry where she’s from (Connecticut) and back and forth about her, the holidays and then dating and availability. “What’s a swanky urbanite doing in this rustic setting?”

    The whole time the dude is looking over, she ends up turning fully to me and we chat for at least 30 minutes. I shift my body off from the bar to introduce milady. I realized CT girl was talking close to me and my back was half turned to wife. I toned the tension down a bit, then let wife into conversation.

    I felt I could have walked out the the bar with her considering all her personal life, details she was spilling to me. IDK. She had completely turned away from her date, almost in my lap. Oy.

    To office party, catered by Hyatt. I had a blue-green plaid coat with vest and got lots of IOI’s from wives, great eye contact, compliments from guys.

    A few drinks then to another bar where after chatting up a middle aged couple dating, he ends up buying us Patron shots. Wasn’t expecting that. Serendipitously see an acquaintance’s birthday gathering and move into that clutch for more drinks.

    I’m tipsy now and start drinking water. One more bar, and talk to a lot of girls. Really happy time.

    On the way home about 1 AM, the missus has a minor meltdown that I’m searching for something else, she can see it. I say I’m going home with her, I’m an insatiably gregarious, she knows that after all these years. She’s winding herself up again. I get her home, and she starts in again. I walk to the cigar box, pour some wine hold her hand outside and fire up and give her the cigar.

    And that was the last I heard of me straying. Just like that. Ain’t it weird?

    Years back I’d have listened to her more and defended myself more until I figured out it wasn’t helping and would let her burn herself out. Now, I skip the listening, stay simmering sexual and she’s back to happy sexual in half the time. Who’d a thunk?

    Thanks!

  26. EhIntellect

    Nice

    And that was the last I heard of me straying. Just like that. Ain’t it weird?

    Yeah they just love to wind themselves up… ^_^_^ emotional spikes…. Guys like ———- .

    and so cats are not dogs…

  27. Been procrastinating on typing up a FR for Friday night (let alone Saturday and Thursday night) – I have a lot I want to write down and I let it overwhelm me instead of just sitting down and writing something. So I’m committing to writing down at least the first major interaction tonight.

    In the meantime, I had a thought this morning that I wanted commit to a post. There were a few women I hesitated to open this morning. The social energy I’d built up all last week kinda died off (probably from just doing chores and watching TV all day yesterday).

    Even just saying hi, my mind was like “well, I can’t think of anything specific about her to be curious about, or any casual social thing to mention.” Later it kinda clicked for me – I don’t need an excuse to talk to them. Even if I’m feeling rusty at the moment and I don’t feel like I have they positive energy to share, it’s enough that I just want to talk to her. Focus on taking action, just walk up and introduce myself, and get her to take responsibility for telling me to fuck off rather than self-censoring.

    Also, I’m wondering if I should stop sitting down on the train unless it’s next to a girl I want to chat. I’ll often find a spot, see a cute girl, but then not get up and walk over to her with the excuse that I’m too comfortable.

  28. @pellaeon

    Try sticking your tongue out at them when you catch her eyes. Baits the same response (wtih faux indignation) or smiles from them and works well in public transport or noisy environment in general and you can do it even if you cant close the distance immediately.

  29. @YaReally, Scray, et all

    FR Clubby Goodness

    THE WARM-UP CLUB
    Started the night at a club I’d never been to before. As it turned out, I got there right as they were opening, so I ended up getting in for free. It was pretty dead when I got there, but I immediately started chatting up one of the bouncers and got a good 5-10 min convo. I chatted up a lot of people to get warmed up, then opened the first two set of girls that walked in the door.

    I wasn’t particularly attracted but figured it would be good for the practice. It hooked well and got the conversation going for a good couple minutes and even put my arm around the girl a few times. I ejected though when a couple of my wings showed up– I panicked that it was going TOO well and I wanted to focus my attention on hotter girls.

    After catching up with my buddies a bit, I turned around and opened two girls on the end of a larger set of like 6 or 7. I introduced myself and got them to tell me their names. I tried to get the other girls, but they weren’t paying attention so I went back to chatting the other two. The one I was more interested in was being friendly, the taller girl seemed to be giving me shit. I tried to deflect it a bit, but not sure I did so well. Then a guy showed up who appeared to be the boyfriend of my target, as they gave a brief kiss. I told her to introduce me and she did. I chatted with him and her a bit.

    I asked what they were celebrating – I figured with as large of a group as they had, it had to be something. Sure enough, she said it was one of the girl’s birthday. I turned to head over to wish her happy birthday, but she immediately turned her back towards me and seemed engaged in conversation, so I just went back to the two.

    After a bit, tall obstacle said they were going to check out the floor upstairs. I took this as a “polite” rejection, so I said enthusiastically “Yeah. Have fun!” Her and target looked taken aback, so much so that part of me wonders if it was supposed to be an invite. I immediately turn to my wing, who apparently had been chatting with the rest of the group. He said he wants to go upstairs before the girls do so it doesn’t look like we’re following them. So I say enthusiastically, and loudly “Sure! Let’s do it.”

    Upstairs is even more empty, but there are three guys standing in the middle of the dance floor so I immediately walk up to them and loudly introduce myself and get their names. The guy on the right asks if I work there. I say “No. Normally I stay away from clubs because I don’t like crowds…but tonight…I’m pushing my comfort zone.” He tells me that he’s the general manager of the club. I’m immediately like “Oh wow. Sorry I forgot your name already.” He gives it to me, then one of the other guys soon after excuses the group and they walk off to the other side of the room.

    I hit the restroom and chat up my wings a bit. By this time, the girls have come up, I see birthday girl standing off to the side with this shorter blond. I go up and say “I hear you’re the birthday girl.” She immediately starts walking away and says “No. I don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s her birthday” as she points to the blond. I ask her if that’s true and she says that it’s both their birthdays. I start relating that I have a buddy who was born on the same day and same year. She seems distant and uninterested at first, but I continue chatting with laser eye contact and the occasional kino. She seemed like she was starting to warm to me, but then tall obstacle comes over and drags her off.

    THE MAIN ATTRACTION
    My other buddy texts me and tells me that the club now has $20 cover, so he wants to go next door to the bar where his friend is promoting. I excuse myself from the wings and go head to the bar to meet up with my other buddy. Normally, this place is a bar, but since his friend is promoting it’s become like a latin club. I meet up with my buddy and immediately open a 4 set of girls by introducing myself to one of them. She gives me her name, but with a negative energy – I immediately just roll off.

    The place is like 85% guys, but I manage to spot a two set at the bar. I go in and introduce myself, touching them on the shoulder. They are both very responsive, I get the impression I can get away with more kino, so I put my arms around their shoulders (not at the same time, one by one) as I’m talking within like, 10 seconds. I get the impression that the less attractive chick is into me more, so I put my arm around her waist within 30 seconds. Both are touching me more enthusiastically now, but I decide I’m going aim for the easier chick.
    Hotter chick tells me that she’s from Colombia. I say “Oh, so that’s why you guys are so hot.”

    My new target says she’s from Mexico. I say “Oh” with a slight disappointment in my voice. Hotter chick insists that the less attractive girl is hotter than she is. I look at the less attractive chick, pause for a split second and say “mayyyyybe.” Hotter girl insists again. I say “Personality test.” Hotter chick keeps trying to insist and I hold my finger up and repeat, “personality test.” I turn to the Mexican chick and ask “if you could be any kind of animal…which one would you be?”

    She pauses for a good ten seconds to think. I say “Uh oh,” and step back from her a bit. At this point, my buddy rolls up. I enthusiastically greet him and introduce him to the girls. He’s standing by my target now though, so I say “switch me sides,” and move around him to get close to the Mexican chick. I tell her “I’m holding you to answering. Don’t think you’re getting away with it,” as I slide my arm around her waist and pull her into me a bit. After a bit more pause, she finally says “Panther.” I don’t really remember a good warm read off that answer, but I bullshit something and then tell her my answer.

    My buddy rolls off at this point, but luckily some dude the other chick seems to know rolls up and starts flirting with her. I’m doing some comfort conversation with my girl and touching her a lot. She starts dancing in place to some of the music, I grab her hand and pull her a bit away from the bar to dance a bit. It’s awkward – we’re not in sync. So I say “Okay, enough of that,” after a few seconds and go back to the bar. We go back to chatting, and I suddenly remember that this is about the stage that many of my pick-ups have staled in the past – from just hanging around the same place I opened.

    So I say, “come here I want to show you something,” and grab her hand to lead her away. To her friend and the guy I say “We’ll be right back.” I lead her over to another table a bit out of view of her friend where there is some space. She asks what I wanted to show her. I try to just laser eye contact and pull her in – she resists. I say “Kiss me.” She says no. I immediately go into my kino game routine which seems to work well. Somehow we get into the topic of where I’m from, so I pull up google maps on my phone when she doesn’t seem to understand. As I’m showing her, she presses her boobs against my shoulder.

    We dance again – less awkwardly, but still awkward. I keep trying to lock eye contact, but she seems to always want to stare off into the distance. We go back to talking, but after a bit she says she has to go to the bathroom. I take this as a polite rejection and meet up with my buddy.
    I’m chatting with him, but I see her coming back. I scan for her reaction to see if she’s open to coming back for me…and realize as I’m doing it that I’m being reactive. I immediately go up to her and lead her back to where we were before. She seems even more distracted than before, and mentions she’s looking for her friend. I say her friend’s name as a question and she says “no, another friend.” I’m confused, thinking she still means the one I meant, but I say “Let’s go find her.” I immediately realize that this is probably a mistake, but I make sure to get her number in my phone before we go looking. I lead her back towards the friend I met, but she walks past and meets up with another girl.

    I go up to join, but her new friend starts pulling her away in another direction. I say “introduce me to your friend” as they’re walking away, but she just keeps walking off towards the back of the room. I again take this as a rejection and meet back with my buddy, and scan the room for another set to approach. As I do so, Mexican chick texts me back “hola.” After a while, my buddy heads towards the back of the room – the same direction the girls had gone. We get to the makeshift dance floor, right in front of the live band, and we just dance a bit by ourselves.

    As we do so, Mexican chick comes up from the direction we just came. I’m feeling even more reactive, watching her come up, hesitating…but she walks up to me, so I just start dancing with her and resuming conversation. Again I try to lock eye contact, but she’s still staring off in the distance. I try to dance in contact with each other, but she seems uncomfortable dancing like that and we go back to dancing at arms length (though holding hands). After a bit she stops and mentions that she doesn’t like the songs they are playing. I gesture to the couch for us to sit and talk, she agrees and we head there.

    I put my arm around her and do more comfort talk. I asked her what her favorite pet was. She said she doesn’t like animals. I lean away from her and say, somewhat judgmentally, “what? How can you not like animals? They are warm and loving creatures?” She says she doesn’t hate them, she just doesn’t like them as pets, partly because she doesn’t feel she can take care of them well. This reminds me of my hamster, so I go into a story about how I used to let my hamster loose in my room with the door closed so he could feel free. And how I think it worked since he would come crawling into bed with me at night rather than run away whenever he escaped his cage like my siblings’ hamsters did. This got a little bit of an “aww” reaction from her.

    Around this time, this black dude I hadn’t seen before came over and started talking to her in Spanish. I tell her to introduce me to her friend, and they both ignore me. I sit passively watching for a while, not sure what to do, then turn to my friend standing near us and chat with him a bit. Black dude goes away, and I resume talking to my target, now putting my hands on her knees as we talk.

    She’s cool with this, but later the second friend, the one who had originally dragged my girl away, comes over with a different black dude. They’re all talking in Spanish. I insist again to introduce me…twice this time. Again I’m ignored. The second friend gestures for her to get up, and the black dude grabs her hand and leads her to the dance floor. I wait a bit in the seat, hoping she’ll come back. The black dude puts him arm around her shoulder, and another girl from the group’s shoulder. Then they all go further into the dance floor, and they form a big circle, with my girl closed in.

    At this point, I suspect that I’m intentionally being shut out by the group so that the black dude can have a shot at her. I start trying to scan the room for another set to approach – I’m not seeing anything. In my peripheral vision, I see some of the girls from the group looking over at me, but I’m pretty sure it’s not my girl. After a bit, I feel a rage suddenly boil up inside me. The first black dude is standing away from the group with another chick. I suspect that he’s friends with the other guy, and he’s partly to blame for instigating the pull away.

    I walk up behind him and clap him on the shoulders – more forcefully than I normally would, but making sure not to do it hard enough to hurt. I say loudly, “I don’t think we got a chance to meet. What’s your name?” He immediately looks me in the eye and complies. I ask how he knows everybody. He points to the second friend and says he’s here for her birthday. He then asks how I know the girl I was flirting with. I say offhandedly, “Oh I just met her.” And then walk off in search of better prospects.

    I was feeling pretty raw at this point, but then I thought back to the newbie vids YaReally shared, and then I was able to gloss over it with a feeling of slight excitement – focus on the action, not the results. I approach a few more groups, most of them blow me off within a few seconds. My buddy heads out for the night, so I get in touch with my original wings and they tell me they’re in this other bar. I decide to head out there.

    THE STREET SET

    As I come out of the second bar, I see this homeless guy and almost walk past, but then I’m like “fuck it. I have a single on me, let me share some happiness with this dude.” I give him a dollar and then grab his hand, shake it, and wish him good luck. As I walk away, these two girls walk up next to me, and the less attractive one asks “Did you just give that homeless guy money?” I’m wary – suspecting that she might be angling to get me to buy her something. I just say yes. She says she’s always giving homeless guys money. Tonight she gave one a bottle of liquor. I laugh and say “that’s awesome. I bet he loved that – just going straight to the source.” She continued with saying that he helped her parallel park.

    I say “whaaaaaat?” intending to follow up with another “that’s awesome.” She took it as criticism though, which I think was a lucky break for me, and said “hey, don’t make fun of us. We’re from X.” She says something midly confrontational, so I get up in her face, spreading my hands in the stereotypical “bring it” pose and say “You want to fight me? I’ll kick your ass in a thumb war!” She counter proposes rock, paper, scissors. I insist back again on thumb war. She says “You’re just afraid cuz you know you’ll lose.” I can’t think of a response so I find myself blurting “mayyyyyyyyybeeeee.” She insists again, and I cave.

    As we’re counting off, I’m thinking to myself “fuck, I can’t just go along with her frame completely. I need to find a way to cheat.” As we get to three, inspiration strikes – instead of throwing out rock, paper, or scissor, I lightly smack the top of her forehead with the heel of my palm and say “bonk.” Her reaction was hilarious – she just stands there stunned, with this look that reads “that was totally a legitimate move, I can’t believe a fell for that.” The light turns green, we were waiting at a crosswalk while this went down, so we start crossing. I forget what we talked about, but as we were turning the corner, I saw the bar I was heading to, so I say

    “Hey I’m going to . Where are you headed?” She says the place the next door, but she’ll be heading to the bar I’m going next week. I say “oh well maybe we’ll run into each other next week then.” She then says “well, we’ll be going to that bar after this one actually.” I take this as a huge IOI and say “okay, let’s do the numbers thing then,” and I start pulling out my phone. She repeats, “well we’ll be coming there afterward so we won’t really need to do that.” I persist with “Yeah, but I might be talking to someone else at that point.” The two girls look at each other, and then the hotter one says “you’re single, so you give him yours.” I get her name, and as she spells it I say “I like that spelling.” Then she says, “well that’s not how I actually spell it.” I tell her to give me the actual spelling, and then I say “yeah I like the other way better.” She gets a bit huffy, “well that’s the wrong way.” I say “that’s fine, I still like it that way.”

    I hand her the phone to put in her number, and this dude comes up and leers at the hotter chick while extending his hand to her. She barks a strong “NO” at him, and my girl starts shouting some stuff at him while he walks away. On a whim, I shout out “Yeah, and she’ll kick your ass too.” My girl then mentions that she was in the military and knows a few chokeholds. I was like “Oh shit, I was just joking, but you probably could kick his ass.” I then mention how my sister takes Krav Magow classes.

    She hands me the phone back, and I start typing up a text message. She says to me, “By the way, we’re not having sex tonight.” Without hesitating, and without looking up from the phone, I scrunch my face into the “what are you crazy?” look and rejoin, “No of course not. I’ve got to get up in the morning.” She laughs at this. I finish the text, and then tell her to give me a hug – she does. Unfortunately, she didn’t text me back at any point, and she didn’t show up at the other bar – I stayed until closing.

    There was at least one more interaction worth mentioning, but my post is already huge enough, so I’m going to call it quits here.

  30. Sorry for the double post, I wanted to make sure I have something on record that I can refer to later. I have a buddy who thinks RSD is complete crap and insists that he didn’t know anyone who gets laid using RSD, and yells at anyone who posts that they’re trying to learn using RSD.

    So I’m experimenting with RSD without letting him know, and posting my field reports on our lair, but editing out all references to RSD and their vocabulary. My theory is, that as long as he doesn’t know I’m trying out RSD techniques, he’s going to applaud the results. My hope is that I can get laid in six months, and then be able to say “btw, all my Field reports since December have been using RSD,” so I want this post with a timestamp as proof should that time come.

  31. Pellaeon

    Some thoughts for you…

    Overall – did you have attraction? Seems not strong A2. Also where you being authentic? Seems like some permission seeking mentality. And overgaming, a little too much focus on winning frame battles.

    I ejected though when a couple of my wings showed up– I panicked that it was going TOO well and I wanted to focus my attention on hotter girls. Did you bring your wings in and then look to merge?

    Her and target looked taken aback, so much so that part of me wonders if it was supposed to be an invite. How about instead “Follow me” and take their hands if for no other reason but to show up upstairs with two girls? Chess not checkers… the night is young… You don’t know who is up there. So in this case it is empty but you get to show the manager you are a guy coming up with two girls then you could DHV to them in front of the manager. Make lemonade…

    It’s her birthday” as she points to the blond. I ask her if that’s true and she says that it’s both their birthdays. I start relating that I have a buddy who was born on the same day and same year. Birthday hug at a minimum… who cares about your friend? why would these girls care at all? It is about her…

    I get the impression I can get away with more kino, check this mindset… you act on your desire not get away with touching… Also in clubs and crowded spaces incidental kino has way less value, it is a baseline state for everyone, you need to amp it up to register which is why the RSD vids have all the carrying girls around draping arms around them. One thing I like is the back of the hair tug/waggle. Pats and points not the same in these places.

    Hotter chick insists that the less attractive girl is hotter than she is. I look at the less attractive chick, pause for a split second and say “mayyyyybe.” Hotter girl insists again. I say “Personality test.” This here was a good opportunity to sexualize and get a better compliance hoop… Personality Test is more comfort vs. becoming the discriminating art director/photog and posing them side by side and making a face and reposing them and having them spin around for a good look… “well which one is sexier?” and more posing leading to trying to get them to kiss each other for “the scene”… like “who is the better kisser?” , “you’ve kissed a girl before right” stuff like that.

    So to me the whole interaction with the Mexican was you trying to lead and doing more comfort before amping her attraction A2…

    “You want to fight me? I’ll kick your ass in a thumb war!” She counter proposes rock, paper, scissors. I insist back again on thumb war. She says “You’re just afraid cuz you know you’ll lose.” Make a bet out of it if you win… The point though isn’t to force them into your frame the point is to build on the interaction with positive energy… So like if you wont with the thumb war straight off, then had a bet on the winner, then either way win or lose go to the thumb war etc. you stretch the interaction and build on the feelings…

    so when it comes to this

    I saw the bar I was heading to, so I say

    “Hey I’m going to . Where are you headed?” She says the place the next door, but she’ll be heading to the bar I’m going next week. I say “oh well maybe we’ll run into each other next week then.” She then says “well, we’ll be going to that bar after this one actually.”

    you have a better chance of doing something because you had more time. and this Hey I’m going to . Where are you headed can be rephrased. Logistics first as often as possible… “So where are you heading?” or even better “Where are we heading?”…

    And on numbers… if you like the thrill of getting numbers OK. But you should learn to DHV and amp attraction and try to only take a number if the girl is offering it to you. Make her offer it to you… and avoid this whole dance…

    say “okay, let’s do the numbers thing then,” and I start pulling out my phone. She repeats, “well we’ll be coming there afterward so we won’t really need to do that.” I persist with “Yeah, but I might be talking to someone else at that point.” The two girls look at each other, and then the hotter one says “you’re single, so you give him yours.” I get her name, and as she spells it I say “I like that spelling.” Then she says, “well that’s not how I actually spell it.

  32. He he That Kangaroo video…

    Mid 30’s 7.5 opened me last night… I was at the bar with a friend, catching up. There was an empty seat next to us… she came up behind me and scratched her nails up and down my back a few times with both hands… to ask if anyone was sitting there… I told her no and she can keep scratching my back if she sits there and went back to talking to my buddy.

    After he left about 15 minutes later, I turned to her and we chatted. I asked her about seeing this kangaroo video so she pulled it up and we were cracking up at it. Had a drink, shot the shit. she had those ripped jeans on that are in style now. One rip mid thigh and both knees blown out. I rubbed my finger on her tan skin at the mid thigh hole and asked how that happened. She laughed. I pointed to the blown out knees and said “I’m not even going to get into how that happened” and she laughed more… She told me where she lived (like Blax at the dance club “corner of X and Y third house down”) and we bantered some more. But I don’t pick up in my city…

    A fine “have a nice night” and off back home…

  33. @Sentient

    Thanks for the feedback, it seems pretty solid to me.

    Did you bring your wings in and then look to merge?

    I did bring in my wings, but they bailed on the interaction.The one guy seemed to be a beginner (first time meeting him) and the other guy is not very good – I’ve gone out with him a few times and I’ve yet to see him hold his own in set. As for merging, they were the only non-staff girls in the club at that point (except for one woman who came in with a guy). The birthday set didn’t come until after I’d bailed on the two set and chatted with my wings for a few minutes.

    I’ll keep this in mind though – stall the set and wait for an opportunity to merge with a group of hotter girls..

    How about instead “Follow me” and take their hands if for no other reason but to show up upstairs with two girls?

    You really think they would have followed? The tall girl was still showing me mild and veiled hostility – I hadn’t won over respect or compliance with her. The other chick had what appeared to be her boyfriend standing right next to her, and I hadn’t met or even made eye contact with the other four girls in the group yet.

    becoming the discriminating art director/photog and posing them side by side and making a face and reposing them and having them spin around for a good look… “well which one is sexier?” and more posing leading to trying to get them to kiss each other for “the scene”… like “who is the better kisser?” , “you’ve kissed a girl before right” stuff like that.

    I would not have thought of this. Thank you.

    Make a bet out of it if you win…

    What kind of bet would you have made? This was about a minute, or less, into the conversation.

  34. Pelleaon

    You really think they would have followed? Well they wanted to go upstairs based on their comment… just a matter of leading… movement is momentum. If they didn’t follow, OK, you go up like you said… and when they got up there you can now introduce them to your new friend the manager of the place… and if it is a birthday girl… well maybe he does something etc…

    What kind of bet would you have made? Buy you a drink is easy, sets the pace for going with them someplace. etc.

  35. So on the bet…

    She says Rock Paper Scissor = her frame

    You agreeing but with a bet she buys you a drink = moves back to your frame…

    Improv…. say yes to everything and then add something… also agree and amplify…

  36. @pellaeon

    Props going out there again.

    As it turned out, I got there right as they were opening, so I ended up getting in for free.

    See what happens when you get there early? See what me and yareally were saying?

    I ejected though when a couple of my wings showed up– I panicked that it was going TOO well and I wanted to focus my attention on hotter girls.

    Why specifically did you panic? Having a couple of girls on your arm is THE way to approach hotties…show’s you’re already preselected. If they are giggling and groping you and all but molesting you, so much the better. It doesn’t really matter what they look like, simply by having a girl (or girls) be into is attractive to other girls. Scray had a good FR on this, but I’ll have to look it up later. It will be hard to hunt down lol. But jist was an uggo was touching him, which got a prettier girl to start touching him too. Didn’t matter the first girl was ugly, just seeing a girl PERIOD be into scray got the prettier girl attracted to him.

    I asked what they were celebrating – I figured with as large of a group as they had, it had to be something. Sure enough, she said it was one of the girl’s birthday.

    Statements, not questions.

    Make it a habit not to ask about thing, but just to state what you think they are doing. Doesn’t matter what it is, and you can sexualize this way. “Ahh, must be this dude’s bachelor party. And these are the strippers right? Niiiicccee.” Just depends on your personality though, but see how a statement like that is far more interesting and exciting then what you did. I’d just experiment with doing cold reads like that –> just go off a hunch, and make up a backstory on the guy or gals there. You can have a lot of fun with stuff like that, self amusing. Plus, its a great opportunity to prompt ioi. Girl says “Yeah, we’re the strippers!” then you can sexualize further. If they get offended, then you can roll off a bit and do more non-sexual stuff and DHV and social proof for a bit before you drop some more sexual stuff.

    Hotter chick tells me that she’s from Colombia. I say “Oh, so that’s why you guys are so hot.”

    as a general rule I wouldn’t ever call girls “hot”, at least not until you banged them. And make sure to offer some kind of compliment AFTER she gives you an ioi — you are rewarding her, you shouldn’t just give away your attention and praise for no reason. Its sounds though like you were good here: Both are touching me more enthusiastically now

    My new target says she’s from Mexico. I say “Oh” with a slight disappointment in my voice. Hotter chick insists that the less attractive girl is hotter than she is. I look at the less attractive chick, pause for a split second and say “mayyyyybe.” Hotter girl insists again. I say “Personality test.” Hotter chick keeps trying to insist and I hold my finger up and repeat, “personality test.” I turn to the Mexican chick and ask “if you could be any kind of animal…which one would you be?”

    This is good. You always want to play girls off each other. Hot girl’s response sounds like a test — if you say “Yeah, she is hotter.” and you are agreeing with her. If you say “no, you are the hot one.” well, you’re just another guy going for the hot chick. So you did a good job with your “maaybe” response, and then by taking charge of the convo with is KEY KEY KEY and insisting on the personality test. Then you interrupt the hot one and insist again on the personality test. All good. But notice the opportunity for kino here…instead of just holding up a finger, you could have put your finger on the hot girls lips and said “shhhhh. personality test.” Just something to consider for next time.

    There’s a lot of stuff going on here with wingmen and two sets. I don’t have any experience here so I can’t really give you detailed advice on this, but if you are rolling up with wingmen often I’d give Mystery Method a watch. Focus on the wingmen section and what he and Style did. That’s great stuff, and I think it would help you out here a lot.

    It’s awkward – we’re not in sync. So I say “Okay, enough of that,” after a few seconds and go back to the bar.

    Great. You know its not working, so you stop. Very good. Some guys would just stand there awkwardly, but you saw it wasn’t working and so went back to the bar.

    We go back to chatting, and I suddenly remember that this is about the stage that many of my pick-ups have staled in the past – from just hanging around the same place I opened.

    So I say, “come here I want to show you something,” and grab her hand to lead her away.

    You’re good at this. You’re self aware of where you dropped the ball, and did something about it. Leading her away is a good compliance test, and lets you take her into isolation WHICH YOU ALWAYS WANT TO DO ASAP. ask me how I know lolol

    I lead her over to another table a bit out of view of her friend where there is some space.

    Awesome. A girl’s world is what she can see. You can even just turn her away from her friends and even IF THEY ARE STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO HER, its as if they didn’t exist. Moving her out of eyeshot is a good move, always do this when you are trying for isolation.

    She asks what I wanted to show her. I try to just laser eye contact and pull her in – she resists. I say “Kiss me.” She says no. I immediately go into my kino game routine which seems to work well.

    Not bad. You pushed for it, then rolled off without a hitch. This in and of its self is a DHV. You are pushing, which implies girls USUALLY let you kiss them, and then the fact that she rejects you and aren’t fazed by it shows you are a confident man and FURTHER shows girls let you have your way with them, since you being unfazed by all this implies that you expect her to want to kiss you on later on that night.

    We dance again – less awkwardly, but still awkward. I keep trying to lock eye contact, but she seems to always want to stare off into the distance.

    Yeah dancing bad. You knew it was awkward, but did it anyway. So you started to lose her here. A better option is another compliance test –> try to lead her to another area in the club, or outside the club. But here you knew dancing was awkward…but you did it anyway…

    We go back to talking, but after a bit she says she has to go to the bathroom. I take this as a polite rejection and meet up with my buddy.

    yeah, because the dancing killed a lot of the attraction.

    but I say “Let’s go find her.” I immediately realize that this is probably a mistake, but I make sure to get her number in my phone before we go looking. I lead her back towards the friend I met, but she walks past and meets up with another girl.

    You’re a stranger, this is her friend. You are introducing obstacles here for no reason. NEVER meet up with friends unless you have to. The fewer moving parts, the fewer parts there are that can break. Now the friend is just gonna cockblock you.

    Again I try to lock eye contact, but she’s still staring off in the distance.

    Are you noticing a trend lol. NO DANCING. Notice though what happens when you used lasers but WEREN’T dancing:

    She seems distant and uninterested at first, but I continue chatting with laser eye contact and the occasional kino. She seemed like she was starting to warm to me, but then tall obstacle comes over and drags her off.

    The exact opposite — you GAIN attraction rather than LOSE it. So moral — don’t be dancing.

    After a bit she stops and mentions that she doesn’t like the songs they are playing.

    Its not the songs lol.

    Good push pull on the animal and hamster bit. Though its more of a comfort story, and it feels to me like you need more attraction here.

    They’re all talking in Spanish. I insist again to introduce me…twice this time. Again I’m ignored

    This is common. I’ve had spanish guys do this, they just start chatting in spanish. Its annoying.

    Mystery to the rescue! (at 1:54)

    See how he interrupts the girl IMMEDIATELY, no hesitation, and how he wedges himself right in the conversation? Key thing is you gotta be more assertive. When guys jump in like that you gotta be very expressive. You gotta take over the set. They are using their shared language to connect with the girl and make a little bubble with her. You know juggler method right? Same thing. “You and I, we speak spanish. THOSE people don’t. But you and I know what’s up, we’re in this special group.” Its powerful, and helps shut out others. So you gotta come back even bigger. You seen russel brand?

    Shaft grabber! lol. See how BIG he is, how EXPRESSIVE. I’m not saying you have to go that far, but note how he just takes over groups and forces people to react to HIM. That’s what you have to do in these situations.

    I walk up behind him and clap him on the shoulders – more forcefully than I normally would, but making sure not to do it hard enough to hurt. I say loudly, “I don’t think we got a chance to meet. What’s your name?”

    Careful, this is how you can start fights. Remember, you always want to be the least reactive person around.

    I was feeling pretty raw at this point, but then I thought back to the newbie vids YaReally shared, and then I was able to gloss over it with a feeling of slight excitement – focus on the action, not the results.

    You actually did very well, and the things you did wrong are fairly easy to fix with a little work, and they are also more advanced stuff anyway so don’t sweat it. Great stuff.

    I approach a few more groups, most of them blow me off within a few seconds.

    Yeah you’re off at this point, in a negative headspace, and value taking. Wouldn’t surprise me though if you actually got some iois here and there at this point, but because you were negative and angry, you didn’t even notice them. Can you remember now? I’ve found in hindsight sometimes there were actually some ioi’s I missed because of being in a bad headspace at the time.

    Good on escalating on the street girl…and then bonking her on the head lol. You’re getting lots of emotions here early on, and some kino. Good good.

    I persist with “Yeah, but I might be talking to someone else at that point.”

    Not a bad way to say you’re gonna be with another girl without actually spelling it out, which would be lame.

    The two girls look at each other, and then the hotter one says “you’re single, so you give him yours.”

    Good sign…not that she’s single, but that her friend is approving of you and helping you meet up. Contrast with how she reacted to the creepy guy:

    I hand her the phone to put in her number, and this dude comes up and leers at the hotter chick while extending his hand to her. She barks a strong “NO” at him, and my girl starts shouting some stuff at him while he walks away.

    See? She’s not going to mention “oh BY THE WAY my friend is single” to that creepy guy. She’s not going to say that to just anyone.

    I get her name, and as she spells it I say “I like that spelling.” Then she says, “well that’s not how I actually spell it.” I tell her to give me the actual spelling, and then I say “yeah I like the other way better.” She gets a bit huffy, “well that’s the wrong way.” I say “that’s fine, I still like it that way.”

    nice push pull. just be aware on this…you wanna tease girls on things they can change…like a haircut, clothes, etc. Not so much on things they can’t, like their body or face or teeth or whatever. That’s likely to make them hate you. The name thing isn’t so bad, just be aware of this.

    She hands me the phone back, and I start typing up a text message. She says to me, “By the way, we’re not having sex tonight.” Without hesitating, and without looking up from the phone, I scrunch my face into the “what are you crazy?” look and rejoin, “No of course not. I’ve got to get up in the morning.” She laughs at this. I finish the text, and then tell her to give me a hug – she does.

    Okay, so WHY would she bring that up? Why would she tell you that sex isn’t on for tonite? Its because she’s thinking about sex with you. Again, remember the creepy guy. Girls don’t just bring up shit like that. And a girl saying specifically “we aren’t having sex” is a big ioi, because it means she believes that sex is a real possibility, so she has to get out that objection so she can tell herself “Well *I* never agreed to sex. I’m not a slut. Things just happened. One thing led to another. The stars aligned.”

    Question. Why didn’t you just stick in with that group? You were solidly in there. The hot one approved of you, and the less good looking one is thinking about fucking you lol. So why not just go to the bar with them?

    Don’t sell yourself short. Don’t go “well that was a pretty good reaction. uhh, pretty good open and comfort there, yeah, that was a solid effort.” Your goal should always be for a bang. So when things are going well, keep at it. Push sets until you fuck or you get blown out. That two set was good enough…you could have gone on with that a lot further. So always be pushing. You’re doing solid work here.

    So I’m experimenting with RSD without letting him know, and posting my field reports on our lair, but editing out all references to RSD and their vocabulary. My theory is, that as long as he doesn’t know I’m trying out RSD techniques, he’s going to applaud the results. My hope is that I can get laid in six months, and then be able to say “btw, all my Field reports since December have been using RSD,” so I want this post with a timestamp as proof should that time come.

    Lol. Your friend would be right at home at TRM lol. I wouldn’t have even mentioned that here lol.

    Seriously though, very good FR. Keep it up. You are doing great stuff out there. You are better than you think you are, you just gotta hang in there longer and push those sets.

  37. @Hank

    Why specifically did you panic?

    Specifically, I don’t fully know. I have some surface level ideas that come to mind, but I think they’re just rationalisations. I think ultimately it’s ego protection of some kind, and probably linked to why I didn’t forget about trying to meet up with my wings and stick with the two set on the street.

    Statements, not questions.

    Make it a habit not to ask about thing, but just to state what you think they are doing.

    Thanks, I’ll practice this consciously next time.

    This is common. I’ve had spanish guys do this, they just start chatting in spanish. Its annoying.

    Mystery to the rescue!

    Awesome, I’ll check these out when I home tonight.

    Careful, this is how you can start fights. Remember, you always want to be the least reactive person around.

    Yeah, this crossed my mind the moment I touched his shoulder. I was very glad that he didn’t escalate, and that I was able to calm the anger once he answered.

    Lol. Your friend would be right at home at TRM lol. I wouldn’t have even mentioned that here lol.

    Haha well my friend also thinks that the red pill is “just a bunch of bitter, angry losers who complain about women.” So I’m pretty sure he’s never gonna check this page of his own accord, but i can link back to it for “the big reveal” six months from now.

    I removed all references to “later eye contact,” yaReally, and “RSD/Tyler videos” and posted this field report on our lair. My buddy loved it, so my experiment is supporting my hypothesis so far.

  38. Rollo finds compelling scenes for his posts, but I can’t get past this one with the female lion chasing down the male (made that up) prey animal.

    This is a formal request for a male lion closing the deal. This documentary: “Eternal Enemies, Lions and Hyenas” by National Geographic, is the kind of thing that I submit aligns more with the spirit of TRM.

    Short version – hyenas are matriarchal and feminists of the animal kingdom. Lions are patriarchal and will ignore the hyena efforts to dominate up to a point. When the point is reached, the male lion reminds every living thing on the veldt that females, of any species, are not really in charge of what happens on the earth when males are pushed too far.

    You can go straight to 2:10 on the video to see the nuke launch.

  39. @Sentient

    She held up pretty well for awhile. Combination of head gear, 22 oz. gloves, slightly pudgy opponent not in top fighting trim?

    My favorite in this category, which I can’t find (I think Rollo once posted it on another forum), is male vs. female pugil sticks. It is over faster than lion on hyena. But you know, “equality”, and gender is a social construct, etc.

  40. Found it. Ah, good old pugil sticks. Just one more reason for men to be confident when dealing with women.

  41. Smartass! Maybe only if the girl is a marine too. He might not do as well against some of those butch 200lbs females I’ve seen wearing navy uniforms. Stretch cloth.

  42. @culum @forge @pellaeon @IAS @scray @yareally

    –FR–

    Had a decent pickup of a girl who was at work, but for one small little thing and had to abort lol.

    So waiter is there. She’s constantly checking in on me, and others. I hear her ask another employee about how to do something. I figure she’s new. Next time she stops by

    “When’d you start here?”

    “Last week. Do I seem that new?” and she got very self conscious.

    I told her how people who’ve been at work for a while get more chill. They don’t check in all the time like she did. So I could tell she was new. I told her she was doing a good job though.

    From there I went into the costume party bit — where I ask if she was at the party because she seemed familiar. She was interested and started talking about one of the TV characters the guys at the party thought I was. She was talking about hearing it…but she was off. I know now she was just making it up to go along with what I was saying. Once it became really obvious I teased her about she was lying.

    She was intrigued about me thinking she was familiar “So reaaaaaally? I looked like someone at the party? Someone looked like me there? What did she dress like?”

    I asked her what she would have dressed as. She said a cat. I said well at least she wouldn’t have been harley quinn, that have been lame. I mentioned how the best costume was the *guy* dressed as Harley Quinn, complete with fake boobs. Shit was funny. She didn’t know who harley quinn was. I said “you know, the suicide squad movie?” still didn’t know.

    So I said “You don’t know tv shows, you don’t know movies, I’m done talking to you.” and went back to my computer.

    She laughed and walked off. She came back in a few minutes and said she’d look in to those tv shows.

    She came by again and I said she was trouble. Did the bit how she seemed really innocent (back from her being really attentive at her job, I said all that was just an act, that she really wasn’t innocent, that she drank and made out with chicks.) She said “I am a child of god.” and didn’t really go along with it there.

    Oh, thing to note real quick. Every time she stopped by, she referred to me as the TV character the people at the party thought I was. She said “So Mr. X, blah blah” or “Hey Mr. X”

    She stopped by again (She stopped by a SHIT TON of times in hindsight lol) and asked if she could take my trash. I said yes. She said “even the hushpuppies?” and I said “No! I’m still eating those. Jesus you lie about knowing that TV show, and now you are trying to steal my food. YAH FIRED!” She laughed as she walked off to throw away my trash.

    Next time she stopped by we got to talking. I was trying to find something interesting about her — because she didn’t know any of these TV shows or movies. I was asking her to tell me something to redeem herself. She said she did modeling at school. However she wanted ultimately to work as a lawyer, but didn’t want to go to all the school. So she didn’t seem to really have plans for anything. I teased her “You really not very good at making yourself interesting.”

    Then she went on about how she wanted to be an exotic dancer. I asked her what her stripper name would be, but she didn’t have any idea. Teased her on this, “The stripper name is the FIRST thing you come up with. Jesus how can you not even know that.” This is something I to pretty well, and actually like to do. Its not like a major neg where you really sting the girl, they are just little shifts, where you seem very incredulous. Its subtle, but the girls react to them a lot. I noticed how I could just shift from talking to her and looking in her eye, to shifting over to my laptop and reading off of it and she’d pick up on that. You can do stuff like this all the time, and its doesn’t wear out the girl like a serious neg would — you can only to a few of those and then its too much.

    Anyway, Then I went on about how actually, I was an exotic dancer. And I just riffed off this for a bit, making up how I was a male stripper.

    She kept doing two things — she would turn it sexual, and she would riff off of what I did. So after I talked about I was a stripper, she said that she was a stripper. Called her out on that right away “Before you said you were thinking of being a stripper, and you didn’t even know you’re stripper name.” She said it was for privacy, she didn’t want me to know her stripper name blah blah told her she was full of shit.

    Then she said she was a tranny. Lol. “You are TERRIBLE at lying. Good god.” She said she had a good surgeon, etc etc. Again, kept at she was full of shit.

    Lol, she kept trying to bullshit like I was doing , but was very bad at it.

    Somewhere in here she went back to saying how she modeled at school, but this time she said she modeled in high heels. **Just** high heels. And then she spelled it out “yeah I model in the nude”

    So I said:

    “Lol, you were the one talking about being a child of god, and here you bringing strippers and trannies. I think *I’m* the innocent one here.”

    And note SHE was the one that brought up those topics. The only thing I did was say she was trouble, and that she made out with chicks when she got drunk. She brought up the stripper and tranny bits all on her own. Funny how all it took was that “you look like trouble” bit to bring up a complete 180 in the direction of this interaction.

    She insisted she was really innocent, I said that’s what all the girls who aren’t innocent say.

    Somewhere around here there was a misunderstanding. I said something, don’t remember what. But she thought I said she looked like a hobo. I didn’t, but ran with it.

    “What? I look like a hobo?”

    “Yup. Fraid so.”

    She got really self conscious. She kept testing me on it “Do I REALLY look like a hobo?”

    She went over to a mirror to look, and asked a coworker lol. Then she said *I* looked like a hobo (again, she always talked about all the things I said — I said I was a stripper, she said she was a stripper. I said she looked like a hobo, she says I look like a hobo). I said this was VERY offensive, and she was saying that because I had a big beard, and that was clearly prejudiced and offensive lol. The usual, just fucking with her, but acting serious.

    She kept being worried about looking like a hobo. I said it was in her denouement, she looked despondent, since she gave up on her dream to be a lawyer and all. Lol, I kept this up for a while, finally I was just like “No, you don’t look like a hobo. You just misunderstood what I said and I ran with it. Because it was funny.” and it was, I was laughing at her so hard here. The whole hobo part was very funny to me.

    Again, theme here is that I can bullshit like a mofo and act dead serious and convince the girl to second guess herself, but she could never do the same to me.

    She said she was going to try and get off work early since it was slow. Couldn’t quite work it out her to meet her after work. I said something like how she seemed really bored (she was, it was slow) and I was going to use that to transition into us going somewhere but I think she had to leave and help someone else before I finished or something.

    Waited for her to come back but she didn’t. As I walked off to leave I saw her up front. Asked her if she was leaving soon, she said she was. I suggested we meet up when she got off. She’s all good on this. She wants to know where. I say I know of a few places, some bars. I ask how old she is — she’s 21 right?

    Nope, 16.

    Fuck. Like all these underage black girls look like 22-24 to me.

    Just told her all the places I had in mind had alcohol, so that wouldn’t really work, left on a good note though.

    Man I’d be cleaning up with all these 15-16 year old black chicks if I was like a decade younger lol.

  43. @Pellaeon – Great field report, you’re doing really well. Just a matter of keeping it up and continuing the interactions – and posting here regularly for FRs. Sentient’s given you some great advice – you’ll note that however much he and Scray/YaReally et al argue on broader issues, they pretty much say the same thing in terms of actionable Game advice – there’s a reason for that.

    @hank – not much to add except again it’s great to see the progress in the last few months – see how consistently you are sexualizing and getting attraction now and moving towards closing…

  44. @Pellaeon: with the disclaimer that I’m about your level or probably below, I think you did well on your FRs. Keep improving.

    @Hank: about the underage thing, I have the same issue. Not too long ago, I opened a 2-set at an airport and it turns out they are school girls (they were away from the group so I didn’t realize). Fortunately my open had lots of plausible deniability (asking for directions) and I don’t think I got visibly embarrassed. I ended up chatting up the teacher for a while asking her for directions instead.

    In the case of your waitress, I think all of that imitating you she was doing was a clue for her being immature and not knowing what to do, but that is easy to spot in hindsight when I already know she was 16.

  45. Hank

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America

    Age of Consent is actually 16 in more places than 18…

    That is the FI pushing on you…

    In any event… play to win not to play… Logistics always up front… In addition to things like “who you here with”, “Where do you live”, “Do you have a roomate” etc. you can add “how old are you”…

    and no matter what she answer you can play off of that with a neg or disqualify/qualify.

    Backward plan FROM the bang (Sex location, logistics, birth control etc.) else you are just walking about…

  46. FR oldest son 16y.o.

    Friday he’s at hockey game, flirts with a few girls. The physics bumping girl too. He says “Anytime you’d like to bump into me, feel free.” Was upbeat Friday night. He’s been lurking some at SoSuave and at SoSauve teen.

    Saturday morning. He’s still pumped and I prompt him to call some of the girls he talked to the night before. He tells me his opening, sounds good, to the phone.

    The mother answers and he immediately tells her his intention, end up qualifying to the mom, entering the mom’s frame and flames out big time. Mom says girl will get back to him. I print out TRM “frame” and he rereads.

    He’s hesitant now, does homework to avoid calling again. I had to then step in. I busted him pretty hard about collapsing so quickly, told him the mother is now his mother too as she is controlling his behavior, it won’t improve unless he moves on promptly. I’m leaving, task him to call no less than 5 girls, call me after every call, and get to it.

    I’m out the door and he calls 20″ later, girl wasn’t home, left message. He’s still a bit sullen, I tell him a girl will perceive this so he best pump himself up, remind him he’s the prize and stop underselling himself.

    10″ later calls back, girl said yeah probably, will call back quick. He’s gets a date for 2PM. Now he’s psyched. We discuss what now. He’s knows all the steps to pull off a great date. He plans 4 stops, talks up former Navy pilot dad well, ends up going Dutch at a little hometown restaurant, talking, getting to know each other, doesn’t tell her what the plan is and as expected she didn’t care. He was leading the whole time and she apparently loved it. Stayed chill during the drive, didn’t talk much, let her talk at him. He held her hand immediately at her door, to the car and around town. Takes her to a sports store, buys a fishing lure, and he tells her about his Canadian fishing experiences.

    At a park, they walk for 30″. He took her all around the park wherever HE wanted to go, never asked her what she wanted to do. Genius move: shallow creek, 40′ wide, half iced. He holds her hand and he slowly leads her out til the ice starts to pop. They hustle off and he lazes, says her name and kisses her.

    Boom!

    He brings her home soon after, close hugs and reports back. “That’s how you do it, son. Congratulations.”

    Him: Uh-huh. Now I let her hamster run…

    Sweet.

    P.S.: He forwards text re: 1st flame out.

    Hey this is (insert name). Sorry I cant give you a call back I’m currently at work! But I’m really flattered by your offer and I think you’re really nice and kind but I am already in a relationship with someone. But I would love to hangout with a group of friends or something sometime?? Hopefully we can get to know each other better as friends! Thanks again!!

    Dad, Here is the ljbf rejection
    It is the most predictable there is. Wow girls are spooky unoriginal. So unoriginal.

  47. Unilateral Shit Storm

    Laughing, kissing deeply over the kitchen island over a beer, see a bruise on her shoulder, I make a light-hearted joke I branded her during sex. She was receptive…

    At dinner, I joke re: daughter to the effect vagina=disability.

    Wife’s offended, ramps up to nuclear at the table in front of the kids, all the boys are assholes, I’m an asshole, older boys are sitting there watching TRM play out in front of them. One stands up when she starts to get physical. She backs off and insults rain down.

    I’m chill, let her dump, tell her occasionally to tone it down. This is new: the boys are there, she’s dumping on them too. I’m being pleasant, just sitting, eating, courteous, listening.

    She drives younger ones to activities and I tell her to get some whiskey and let’s work it out when she gets back.

    I sit quietly at the table and boys doing their homework. Hold my whiskey glass up and smile at my 14 y.o., he knowingly shakes his head. That kid is hi-larious. I talk to the older one about his date, girl’s apologizing in an email for spazzing out in the hall when he said “Hi” to her. He’ll ask her today to “Block off 4 hours on Saturday for him.” (His words) TRM is pure gold to that young man.

    Wife returns, simmering. She starts explaining her position in accusatory tones, I tell her it ain’t going well if I’m continually on the defensive. She blows up again. I’ve never seen this amount of fierce energy out of her. Wow. I tell her to check herself before it gets ugly and I’ll have to call the cops, she says go ahead, I’m screwed, she’ll claim she was abused, and no one will believe me because I’m an asshole and deserve all I get. Hmm….this is new.

    I get close to her and try to settle her down, she gets close to me, kisses me then quickly bites my tongue hard and then claws at my neck. Breaks the integrity. Minor scrape. (I hear you, AR) I walk to the mirror with my phone and take a picture. She’s pissed more that I’d think to do this. Mocking me now as a wimp. “Poor me, poor me.”

    I thought about getting aggressive…really dominant…I opted to let her decompress and hold frame, tactical defense. Relax.

    Tell her she’s unhinged. I walk to bed, sit inside for a bit, she’s unloading on me again, usual stuff, finger pointing and unilateral yelling. I’m chill, telling her to steady herself.

    I pat the bed. Tell her to get in. No way. She stands there for 10 minutes berating me. I tell her “Hold that thought.” mid-screed, get a beer and get back in bed, take a drag, then offer her the beer…and she takes it and drinks some…gives it back and then rants more! She is completely deranged.

    O.K…she showers, gets back in bed, now it’s 0030 and I’m wiped from work, the beer, the bitchfest. I pat the bed again she gets in…and I’m not sure what happened next…she was still fuming…I decided to ignore her and pass out cuz I don’t remember anything until…I had to get up at 0400 to take HER PARENTS to the airport. I lean over before I leave and she says “I love you, EhIntellect” Me: “You too, babe.”

    She emails me only just: “I still love you. I’m sorry. Let’s mend.”

    Tear it up, fellas. In-f’ing-credible.

    P.S. : Honestly, this ain’t fun. Kinda funny though, when I think about it objectively. Hope it helps someone.

    P.S.S.: I considered leaving when she struck out. Opted not to, my house and all and it’s cold out there.

  48. I forgot:

    After the vagina joke she says: “Well this vagina’s closed for a long time!”

    My boys burst out laughing at the dinner table. That really stoked the fire. Little stinkers.

  49. Tear it up, fellas. In-f’ing-credible.

    Nothing to tear up hoss… The Cap weathered the shit storm in amused frame. At no time did he enter hers… and she came right around. It is OK to let the pressure blow the relief valve off while you drink beer…

    Well done…

    Also note we are just a couple days off Full Moon… check her cycle… LOL

  50. @EhIntellect

    Laughing, kissing deeply over the kitchen island over a beer, see a bruise on her shoulder, I make a light-hearted joke I branded her during sex. She was receptive…

    this is good… but given the rest of this FR, i’m betting there is something you are missing here…lol…

    and it’s likely some type of beta provider/orbiter behavior… did you buy her something expensive just bc she’s SO AWESOME?… or just bc you ‘love her sooo much’?…

    (and after reading the rest of the FR, i think i know…lol… did she bitch about having to get up early to take HER parents to the airport… and then YOU jumped in to ‘save her’?…lol… = white knight…lol… and THAT behavior needs to be tested as it is not ‘alpha stud’… did you get a deal on some armor polish?…lol… i’ve heard it comes in ‘extra shiny’ now…lol… )

    At dinner, I joke re: daughter to the effect vagina=disability.

    this must have been incongruent with how she was seeing you in this moment (ie that you were not alpha enough to ‘get away with’ this statement)… but hard to analyze without more detail…

    Wife’s offended, ramps up to nuclear at the table in front of the kids, all the boys are assholes, I’m an asshole, older boys are sitting there watching TRM play out in front of them.

    check this to make sure it is not the result of a guard dog situ spinning up… (ie is this reaction pretty typical to one of your non-pc jokes? and has her reactions gotten more extreme over time?…) but it likely is… given the rest of this FR…

    One stands up when she starts to get physical. She backs off and insults rain down.

    I’m chill, let her dump, tell her occasionally to tone it down. This is new: the boys are there, she’s dumping on them too. I’m being pleasant, just sitting, eating, courteous, listening.

    did you defend THEM against her insults?… if not, that’s a different type of fail… it doesn’t matter if THEY understand RP or not… what SHE sees is YOU not ‘protecting her offspring’… and no it doesn’t matter that SHE is the one causing the danger…lol…

    I talk to the older one about his date, girl’s apologizing in an email for spazzing out in the hall when he said “Hi” to her.

    did you explain to him that this ‘spazzing’ was a shit test?…

    He’ll ask her today to “Block off 4 hours on Saturday for him.” (His words) TRM is pure gold to that young man.

    he shouldn’t ‘ask’ per se… he should ‘tell her’ that he wants her to block off the time… ie whose frame is he asking from?…

    Wife returns, simmering. She starts explaining her position in accusatory tones,

    i’m going to assume that you didn’t spot this as beta-baiting in situ…lol… = offering up the possibility of ‘reasoning with her’ to make YOUR point…

    I tell her it ain’t going well if I’m continually on the defensive.

    you’re in her frame here (from accepting that beta bait)… = logical explanation trying to change her behavior in the moment… = try to ‘negotiate desire’… you might not have started there when she got back, but you certainly moved there fast…lol

    She blows up again.

    her hindbrain has to try to maintain/solidify her advantage…lol…

    I’ve never seen this amount of fierce energy out of her. Wow.

    that’s what a guard dog situ looks like as it spins up…

    I tell her to check herself before it gets ugly and I’ll have to call the cops, she says go ahead, I’m screwed, she’ll claim she was abused, and no one will believe me because I’m an asshole and deserve all I get. Hmm….this is new.

    but not unexpected…lol… you were in her frame… and guard dog situs don’t ‘just happen’…lol

    I get close to her and try to settle her down, she gets close to me, kisses me then quickly bites my tongue hard and then claws at my neck.

    and did you even THINK that you MIGHT be failing some shit tests at this point?…lol… like all those OMGs keep pointing out… it’s not her, it’s YOU…lol…

    Breaks the integrity. Minor scrape. (I hear you, AR) I walk to the mirror with my phone and take a picture. She’s pissed more that I’d think to do this. Mocking me now as a wimp. “Poor me, poor me.”

    that egalitarian mindset really does ping as beta…lol…and girls really DO hate it…

    and did you administer a ‘consequence’ for her non-compliance/abuse?…

    I thought about getting aggressive…really dominant…I opted to let her decompress and hold frame, tactical defense. Relax.

    at this point, you can’t win… you are in too deep… the only thing you CAN do is remove yourself from the interaction… and try to do so while you are in ‘your’ frame… ie you are leaving to do something more fulfilling with your time than interact with her… bc of her bad behavior… bc IF you stay, you are firmly in HER frame/chasing her big-time…

    she isn’t going to listen to what you SAY… she is going to watch what you DO… that’s where puas got THAT idea…lol… from girls…

    this shit really is hard to spot in real time (when you are trapped in the moment)…lol…

    Tell her she’s unhinged. I walk to bed, sit inside for a bit, she’s unloading on me again, usual stuff, finger pointing and unilateral yelling. I’m chill, telling her to steady herself.

    did you administer a ‘consequence’ for her non-compliance?…

    I pat the bed. Tell her to get in. No way.

    did you administer a ‘consequence’ for her non-compliance?…

    She stands there for 10 minutes berating me.

    did you administer a ‘consequence’ for her non-compliance?… (and 10 MINUTES!!!… HOLY SHIT!!!…lol…why would you put up with that?… serious question…)

    I tell her “Hold that thought.” mid-screed, get a beer and get back in bed, take a drag, then offer her the beer…

    not only did you NOT administer a ‘consequence’ for her non-compliance… you gave her a reward…lol… (do you sense a theme here?…lol)

    and she takes it and drinks some…

    victories need to be toasted!!!…lol

    gives it back and then rants more! She is completely deranged.

    no… but she keeps winning ‘enough’ that she can ‘win’ (when her hindbrain needs to) by going further than last time… she’ll go even farther next time to gain your compliance…

    O.K…she showers, gets back in bed,

    and you’re STILL there?…lol…

    now it’s 0030 and I’m wiped from work, the beer, the bitchfest. I pat the bed again she gets in…

    wow, you REALLY want to solidify your position…lol (and communicate to her that you do NOT have any ‘options’ wrt other girls…lol)… so after ALL THAT disrespectful behavior/abuse, you STILL want to get sex…from HER…lol… she must REALLY have a magic pussy!!!…lol…

    just how much abuse ARE you willing to go through to put her pussy on that pedestal…lol…

    and I’m not sure what happened next…she was still fuming…

    she really doesn’t like you failing all those shit tests…lol…

    I decided to ignore her and pass out

    failing your way to success…lol…finally!…lol

    cuz I don’t remember anything until…I had to get up at 0400 to take HER PARENTS to the airport.

    even AFTER all that abuse she put you through?… wow! she really IS important to you!… ‘magic pussy’ indeed!…lol

    I lean over before I leave and she says “I love you, EhIntellect”

    = beta bait… i’m going to assume you didn’t spot this as solidifying your beta provider position…lol… she ‘loves you’… buuut, she did NOT have sex with you…lol…

    Me: “You too, babe.”

    aaand, another fail…lol…

    She emails me only just: “I still love you. I’m sorry. Let’s mend.”

    aaand she’s back to ‘keeping’ her BB gravy train…lol… after she AVOIDED having sex with you during her (likely) most fertile period, where she wanted an alpha stud…lol…

    Tear it up, fellas. In-f’ing-credible.

    P.S. : Honestly, this ain’t fun. Kinda funny though, when I think about it objectively. Hope it helps someone.

    not funny… and hopefully this analysis helps YOU…lol…

    P.S.S.: I considered leaving when she struck out. Opted not to, my house and all and it’s cold out there.

    you really SHOULD ‘remove your attention’… = ‘leave’… you don’t have to leave the house, but you can’t reward her for THAT type of behavior (with your continued attention)…

    what you really SHOULD do is give one of your ‘plates’ a call to hang out…lol…

    good luck!

  51. A lot to digest. Thanks. This I can work with.

    If I left early on all this would have been moot. True, True. I told her to knock it off at the table, but she was baiting me to get physical.

    She’s pleading with me now to come home, and is on an apology tour, with me, the kids. I’m not taking the bait. Trying to stem my losses, if you will.

    The parents. Fuck, I just took ’em. Then went to work after in their car. What a missed opportunity.

    “what you really SHOULD do is give one of your ‘plates’ a call to hang out”

    This.

    Yes! My son saw this as a test and he did a good job “telling” her about Saturday.

  52. @EhIntellect

    I told her to knock it off at the table, but she was baiting me to get physical.

    sooo, you saw this building up in real time… aaand… addressed it by letting it continue with your blessing…lol… are you ‘afraid of her’?… serious question… (not physically… you could probably take her…lol… but emotionally (and not just ‘ignore as silly’…) can you actually stare her down in a dominant primate way?…

    She’s pleading with me now to come home, and is on an apology tour, with me, the kids. I’m not taking the bait. Trying to stem my losses, if you will.

    you can go home, but she needs to appease you with sex… before you will ‘stay’ home even for the night (so have a plan)… not kidding… guard dog situs can end up with you getting knifed in the kitchen… her enthusiasm (or lack thereof = watch her twist herself inside out to avoid/deflect/delay that result if you have really lost hand…lol) should tell you how far down the beta hole you fell…lol

    good luck!

  53. @EhIntellect

    The parents. Fuck, I just took ’em.

    without her even having to ask?…’extra shiny’ it is…lol

    can you see how you are still in her frame here?…

    good luck!

  54. EhIntellect: At dinner, I joke re: daughter to the effect vagina=disability.

    Habd: this must have been incongruent with how she was seeing you in this moment (ie that you were not alpha enough to ‘get away with’ this statement)… but hard to analyze without more detail…

    EhIntellect: Wife’s offended, ramps up to nuclear at the table in front of the kids, all the boys are assholes, I’m an asshole, older boys are sitting there watching TRM play out in front of them.

    You gotta be careful about using masculine logic in front of the women at the dinner table. You were trying too hard to play out TRP in front of them. Cat’s are not dogs. (Hat tip to HABD for the excellent breakdown)

    Vagina=disability is logical rational abstract thinking for you and the sons. It is emotional dynamite and an insult to the women at the table. It was disrespectful (not white-knighing here, just explaining praxeology.) And how did that turn out?

    You know the saying about don’t talk about fight club? Well it is a thing. You were trying to demonstrate Red Pill fight club in front of your wife and daughter to your sons, but your son’s are young and mom doesn’t want them to have too much power over women. Women will always pay attention to mainstream media and advocate for women collectively. Always will take the side of women’s interests. Always.

    Don’t make TRP public in front of them. Keep it off to the side and discuss it with your sons in private and demonstrate alpha attitude and masculine. Don’t explicate in front of the women at the dinner table.

    Mom has heard about “toxic masculinity” and she for damn sure doesn’t want her sons to display it.

    And when things go sour and she wants to have a frame battle with you at the dinner table, don’t have that Frame battle there. The children need to see you and mom getting along. You want the children to grow up seeing a healthy relationship between Mom and Dad.

    And after things go bad and you are accused of something by your wife, don’t use DEERing (defend, excuse, explain, and rationalize) in explaining your behavior that she deems inappropriate.

    It’s OK, though, you might be just taking things a little too fast.

    Going forward, discipline bad behavior by withdrawing time and attention for it, but don’t withhold presence and affection (unless she is weaponizing sex by withholding that–then it is ok to temporarily withhold presence and affection). Here is an expounded explanation of that (H/T to BluePillProfessor):

    https://therationalmale.com/2016/07/29/the-cardinal-rule-of-sexual-strategies/comment-page-6/#comment-165645

    The last comment link copied from BluePillProfessor’s book:

    https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/

  55. Thank you much. I ruminated at the bar before going home last night. She was texting me a couple times, supplicating, enticing me. Apologizing for her bad behaviors. That’s a start.

    Full disclosure: I had dominant sex (with her) hours before and it’s been qd/bid for months now. No humblebrag, just trying to get the variables out there.

    When I arrived she was full seductress. Boozy cocktail, salmon (!) nightie and robe.

    I take a few sips, she offers food, I grab her an kiss her. She goes down on me in the kitchen again. To the bedroom for more dominant sex. The mirror, the floor, bent over the bed, knocking it to the other side of the room. Suspended in the air. Same stuff.

    After finishing, at table she’s serving me. Happy but trying to gauge my emotions. I was rather unemotional in the bedroom, just banged away. She wants to talk. I tell her the insults must stop. I give one example. She looks at me and quietly says: “I don’t even remember saying that.”

    Now I’m done talking. Just hang out while she serves me dinner and drinks. Sex again this morning. I’m unemotional. I asked her if she remembered standing by the side of the bed yelling at me. She says she remembers standing there vaguely, but can’t recall saying anything.

    Fuck me!

    She’s a horrible liar, at least overtly. She’ll explain away the most stupid behaviors, but here, I believe her when she claims amnesia. She’s can’t be trusted with facts.

    Y’all are correct. I fucked it up by talking about RP tactlessly, I should have got the fuck out of here before it started, I should have let her tend to her parents. I walked away from her during the fight, but she’d follow me around in a blind rage. Gotta walk the fuck out of the house…but part of me just want to throw that stupid bitch out to the curb. I’m not allowed go Ray RIce and beat her mercilessly, routinely like my dad did my mom. Oh man….I wanted to ‘cuz I see it is what she really wants me to do, or some proxy, at least her brain does, but that’d land me in jail.

    Wow.

    There’s a lot more to say, but I’ll leave it here. Again, thanks.

  56. @EhIntellect

    You are doing a lot right. Good job.

    The good: She has desire to fuck you is not indifferent to you. You are sending her on an emotional roller coaster. (The bad emotions are not a bad thing in general) You have desire to master red pill awareness and game and think its fun (these components are key ingredients to eventual mastery of learned game). Despite what anyone else may say, your religious affiliations are a plus (to some extent they are driving background fear and dread of not being out of compliance with the community).

    The bad: Too much alcohol is flowing into you and your wife for Mr. EhIntellect to perform with conscious competence in learned game. Imagine both your sexual strategies were humming along (which they are, congrats on that) if you didn’t have to rely on the alcohol. You for courage and her to stimulate her emotions (good and bad).

    You are not getting the concept of cats are not dogs and the explanations of Sentient that you have to “speak the language of women”. Exhibit #1 is your frustrations with her lying. Your masculine brain logically calls what she does there lying (which it is). Her feminine emotional brain is going through a big emotional in-the-middle-of-the-ocean sloshing around in a hurricane searching-for-comfort for her and the children moment. She’s scared and is in survival mode.

    Roissy commandment XV. Maintain your state control

    You are an oak tree. You will not be manipulated by crying, yelling, lying, head games, sexual withdrawal, jealousy ploys, pity plays, shit tests, hot/cold/hot/cold, disappearing acts, or guilt trips. She will rain and thunder all around you and you will shelter her until her storm passes. She will not drag you into her chaos or uproot you. When you have mastery over yourself, you will have mastery over her.

    Let me explain with a Deida chapter that will piss you off and also piss off young single guys

    Feline behavior:
    ____________________

    Women Are Not Liars

    “Keeping your word” is a masculine trait, in men or women. A person with a feminine essence may not keep her word, yet it is not exactly “lying.” In the feminine reality, words and facts take a second place to emotions and the shifting moods of relationship. When she says, “I hate you,” or “I’ll never move to Texas,” or “I don’t want to go to the movies,” it is often more a reflection of a transient feeling-wave than a well considered stance with respect to events and experience. On the other hand, the masculine means what it says. A man’s word is his honor. The feminine says what it feels. A woman’s word is her true expression in the moment.

    When you listen to your woman, listen to her as you would the ocean, or the wind in the leaves. The sounds you hear from her are sounds of the motion of her feeling-energy. Of course, there are times when she speaks in the masculine style of meaning exactly what she says, but more often, and almost always in emotional moments, what she says is the sound of her feelings. Her feminine speech is far more like poetry than like a clear cut agenda for action. In an emotional moment, what she says she is going to do is actually an expression of what she feels like doing in the moment. Her feelings, and therefore what she is actually going to do, could change in five minutes.

    It could change every five minutes. Whenever you are surprised by your woman’s actions, and you say to her, “But you said…,” you are forgetting that she has a feminine essence. What your woman says is like a cloud passing in the sky: well-formed, coherent, and unrecognizable moments later. The cloud is an expression of the precise physics of water, wind, and air. Your woman’s words are expressions of the physics of her feelings, your relationship, and the nuances of the present situation, seen and unseen. A moment later, these factors will change, and so will your woman’s expressions.

    You might ask her, “Do you want to go to the movies?” She might reply, “Not really.”

    Then you hug her and spin her around and say, “Let’s go to the movies!”

    And she says, “OK!”

    She is not talking about her desire to go to the movies. She is talking about the feeling of your relationship in the present moment. If after she said she didn’t want to go to the movies, you said fine and sat down to watch TV, you would be missing the point. She is not really saying she doesn’t want to go to the movies, even though that is what she’s saying.

    This is not lying. For a man, or for anyone speaking in the masculine style, to say something that is not true is lying. But, for the feminine, truth is a thin concept compared to the thickness of her flow of feelings. The “truth” of the feminine is whatever she is really feeling, in this present moment.

    So, when she says that she wants to move to Pittsburgh with you, and then, after you have sold the house, she says she doesn’t want to move with you, don’t start yelling, “But you said…!” When she first told you she wanted to move, she was feeling good about the relationship. When she then told you she doesn’t want to move, she was feeling bad about the relationship. Instead of arguing about what she said or didn’t say, establish love in the intimacy first.

    The basic rule is this: Don’t believe the literal content of what your woman says unless love is flowing deeply and fully in the moment when she says it. And even then, know that she is probably talking about her current feelings, not necessarily about the subject of whatever she is talking about. Never base your plans on what a woman says she wants to do, unless she is in the full flow of love when she says it. And then, expect her to change her mind at any moment when her feelings change. Remember that a woman’s feelings may be more sensitive to an unseen realm of nature than are yours. Try to differentiate between your woman’s shifting moods and her sensitive wisdom.

    Women are not liars, although they often seem that way to men. This is why a man must ultimately be responsible for making his own decisions, based on the deepest truth he can fathom. Otherwise, if he bends his course of truth to compromise for his woman’s current and changing expressions, he will probably end up blaming her.

    You should hear what your woman has to say and feel her depth carefully. Then, after you have fully considered her input, make your best possible decision from your own deep core. This way, if your woman subsequently changes her mind, you won’t resent her for compromising your path. Rather, you can enjoy her subtle sensitivity and changing emotional weather patterns. You can proceed with or modify your actions in full gear, knowing you are always making the best choice available to you, having taken her depth of wisdom—and her fluctuations of expression and mood—wholly into account.

    THE WAY OF THE SUPERIOR MAN Chapter 16 under Dealing with Women.

    __________

    So, she is lying in your language of logic, because she is feminine, her language is an expression of her emotions. That doesn’t mean you should allow all of her behavior, because that will just piss you off (Oh, wait…It already has). You just have to redirect her energies and emotions. Don’t suppress her emotions, redirect them. It’s hard work, but it is your burden of performance. Don’t be pissed, that’s just how women are.

    Roissy’s IX: Connect with her emotions

    Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

    You will gets resentful and frustrated with your wife if you are too afraid, weak, or unskilled to penetrate her moods and tests. Or if you drink too much alcohol, to not have your game wits about you and collapse in the moment. You wish she were easier to deal with. But it is not entirely her fault that she is bitchy and complaining. It is also a reflection of your lack of being the oak and connecting with her emotions. If you resign from this burden of performance and simply tolerating her self-destructive moods (while sipping another beer or wine or bourbon) it is a sign of weakness. At that point your mode is one of escape rather than step up your married man Game and get compliance. You shouldn’t tolerate bitchy and complaining moodiness in her, you should step up your skill in game and perseverance as the patriarch of the family.

  57. @EhIntellect

    Thank you much. I ruminated at the bar before going home last night. She was texting me a couple times, supplicating, enticing me. Apologizing for her bad behaviors. That’s a start.

    might be better if you looked at it like it’s the ‘end’ of the guard dog situ spin-up cycle (bc that’s what it is…lol)… where she has to ‘make nice’ so her hindbrain can try to solidify her position/frame control… (and keep her BB gravy train…lol)

    and the next time the ‘violence cycle’ might ‘go hot’… so make sure you are not in the kitchen (where all the knives are…) when it spins up…lol…but not kidding… if she BIT/SCRATCHED you enough to break skin, what’s the next step up the violence ladder?… that is IF you don’t diffuse/win by walking away/withdrawing YOUR attention first…

    Full disclosure: I had dominant sex (with her) hours before and it’s been qd/bid for months now. No humblebrag, just trying to get the variables out there.

    ‘dominant sex’ might not be ‘desire sex’… it usually is… but a good check would be = does she initiate sex when you are not pissed off?… and everything is happy btwn the two of you/in household?… as opposed to you chasing her?… also, you can figure out her cycle and see what happens during the end of follicular phase/start of her luteal phase (when she’s most fertile and wants alpha stud seed)… does she want the D then?… and initiate with you to get it?… or does she sort of put you off until the last day?…

    When I arrived she was full seductress. Boozy cocktail, salmon (!) nightie and robe.

    I take a few sips, she offers food, I grab her an kiss her.

    i understand the ‘dominance’ idea, but did SHE do more than put on some hot outfit to get you to chase her?…lol… (and can you see how her hindbrain would see this as you still being thirsty… with HER in control of YOUR sexuality?…and how THAT is totally within her frame?) what else did she do to ‘apologize’?… making food MIGHT count… if it was something she doesn’t usually do… but mostly food is not ‘sex’…lol…

    and would sex have happened if you HADN’T chased her for it?…

    (and you STILL chased her for sex bc she has that magic pussy, right?…lol… in spite of ALL of her shitty behavior towards you (and the kids)?… or did you chase her BC of all of her shitty behavior?… her hindbrain can’t really tell bc it just looks at behavior patterns…)

    AF OR BB… CAN be in the same man for her, but not at the same time… that’s just how girl’s algorithms work…

    She goes down on me in the kitchen again. To the bedroom for more dominant sex. The mirror, the floor, bent over the bed, knocking it to the other side of the room. Suspended in the air. Same stuff.

    all good… maybe…lol

    was she an active participant?…lol… what i mean is did she ‘take the initiative’ to get YOUR genetic material into her baby-maker?… or was she just sort of ‘letting’ you do things with her?… kind of hard to explain/differentiate, but that’s the idea of what to be watching for… bc ‘desire sex’ (and it does seem like you have been having that based on your FRs) doesn’t usually follow from failing all those shit tests… and being in her frame like you are…

    basically, in the absence of your initiative, would sex have happened?…

    After finishing, at table she’s serving me. Happy but trying to gauge my emotions.

    that’s usually a symptom/signal of being manipulated…lol…

    I was rather unemotional in the bedroom, just banged away. She wants to talk. I tell her the insults must stop.

    there’s that logical fail again…lol… you can’t talk to a girl’s forebrain and expect her hindbrain to understand…lol… her hindbrain ONLY knows by actions taken… based on what you actually DO… it doesn’t HAVE another language…lol…

    I give one example. She looks at me and quietly says: “I don’t even remember saying that.”

    girls will always try to tell you shit that’s not true…lol… that’s HOW they try to form their reality…(and how they can separate AF from BB… BB believe her words at face value…lol)

    but then again, if it’s her hindbrain in play, what she actually said doesn’t really matter to her so she might not actually remember specifics…lol… either way, it’s still you in her frame…

    Now I’m done talking. Just hang out while she serves me dinner and drinks. Sex again this morning. I’m unemotional. I asked her if she remembered standing by the side of the bed yelling at me. She says she remembers standing there vaguely, but can’t recall saying anything.

    logical fail again…see above…lol… and you are STILL in her frame… bc you are still trying to ‘negotiate desire’… ie get her to overtly agree that she acted like shit/was the problem…lol… which her hindbrain sees as BB…

    Fuck me!

    She’s a horrible liar, at least overtly.

    maybe that’s just wishful thinking on your part…lol… maybe she’s super good at it… and if she can get you to accept what she says at face value, does it really matter?…lol… bc you’ll just rationalize away her behavior… and do you see how that’s still her frame?…

    She’ll explain away the most stupid behaviors, but here, I believe her when she claims amnesia. She’s can’t be trusted with facts.

    you should just EXPECT that she remembers (at least what her actions/behaviors were)… that’s what an alpha stud would do (bc that’s whose frame you two would actually be in)… why don’t you believe yourself to be memorable enough to justify an expectation of her actually remembering treating you like shit?…lol…but serious question… bc THAT’s the question her hindbrain is asking HER… and THAT’S the problem you have to solve if you are going to get out of her frame…

    Y’all are correct. I fucked it up by talking about RP tactlessly,

    NEVER talk about fight club…lol…

    I should have got the fuck out of here before it started, I should have let her tend to her parents.

    you CAN tend to her parents… but NOT from her frame… ie she (and you) just expect that you will have to do that… if it is your frame, you just ignore what happens to them… bc YOU are more important to YOU than they are…lol… = AF…

    she has to specifically ASK you BEFORE you do anything like that… and then you should make her do something sexual to ‘make it worth your time/attention’…

    I walked away from her during the fight, but she’d follow me around in a blind rage.

    the ‘back turn’ is a goto primate response to this exact situ…lol… don’t even have to leave the room… (just don’t use it in the kitchen in the middle of a spin up without your kevlar kidney protectors…lol)

    Gotta walk the fuck out of the house…but part of me just want to throw that stupid bitch out to the curb.

    how’s that FI treating you?…lol… bc that’s a much better outcome for the FI than you actually gaining competence at RP/game and doing a Deep Conversion ™ on her… (until you lose that attraction again anyway…lol…)

    I’m not allowed go Ray RIce and beat her mercilessly, routinely like my dad did my mom. Oh man….I wanted to ‘cuz I see it is what she really wants me to do, or some proxy, at least her brain does, but that’d land me in jail.

    no… what her hindbrain WANTS is an alpha stud that ‘just gets it’ enough to avoid her HAVING to spin herself into that physical state in the first place…lol…

    so she can have her ‘bad emotions’ on the rollercoaster without actually being in a situ where she has to physically attack you to adequately (from her hindbrain perspective) shit test you… bc THAT situ is less than ideal from an evo-psych perspective…

    you are sending so many mixed signals that her base algorithms are getting crossed…

    Wow.

    There’s a lot more to say, but I’ll leave it here. Again, thanks.

    try this… draft a game plan…(lol)

    write down what you believe are acceptable behaviors for her to display toward you (and the kids)… then when she goes off that list, just withdraw your attention (with no explication/explanation)… this is basic operant conditioning… your attention = her reward (for staying on list)… your withdrawing your attention = her punishment (for going off list)… and sex for her is her reward for her initiating with you… that means you might go without for a while…(at least from her…lol)… but you need to get her chasing YOU… and that can’t happen with you ‘chasing’ her for sex by initiating…

    and it wouldn’t hurt you to make a list of ‘withdrawing your attention’ with lateral and escalating methods of ‘withdrawing’… = that should give you some options in situ…

    then you just have to execute consistently…

    good luck!

  58. Having A Bad Day and Sentient

    Is the right forum now to post this? Not the main post comments?

    Married guy here with kids, mid 30s, working on turning his marriage around and I post from time to time and you guys helped before.

    Had an interesting experience last night even though it ended badly and input is appreciated.

    Watching TV with wife with her cuddled up to me. Wife having several glasses of wine. I comment about how I can tell from just her voice she is getting a little tipsy.

    No reply but she knows I don’t like having sex with her when she’s tipsy and I won’t do it.

    Half an hour later I farted (heh) and she makes a big fuss about it and moves away for a couple minutes then comes back.

    Ten minutes later I farted again and she makes a big fuss about how it smells and she’s lighting aromatic candles around me and moves away from me to another chair, while I laugh out loud with genuine tears of laughter (I did fart but it wasn’t THAT smelly FAOD).

    She said:

    Her: “I was thinking of having sex with you tonight but now I can’t”.

    I laughed and said “I’m gonna take advantage of you in the morning”

    Her: “No, still too smelly in the morning”

    Twenty minutes later, the movie ends and she gets up to go to bed – I always stay up later.

    She repeats she had been thinking of having sex with me but now can’t. I repeat my line about taking advantage of her in the morning.

    Then she says – I get the feeling this was a REALLY IMPORTANT sign but I’m not sure why or how.

    “Stop doing this mock controlling thing – we’re not having sex in the morning” and she went off to bed.

    I may not have the words exactly right but that was the meaning of what she said.

    The vibe was fine – she wasn’t angry or anything. That statement was completely matter of fact from her and I ignored it.

    I sat up thinking about it for a long time.

    I don’t fully understand.

    Lately we’ve been arguing a lot. All kinds of things. Silly small stuff to children stuff – she’s a good mom but I think she protects them too much and she thinks I’m too irresponsible with them – a subject for another post.

    But like we’re always fighting for the frame. I’m okay on holding firm and being reasonably unreactive. Or better than I used to be.

    A lot of the amused mastery lines fall flat – I don’t think I have enough attraction to pull them off. Sometimes they work.

    I think I posted before about how my mom mentioned a girl I knew from high school had come back to town and was asking about me after years in front of the wife and that resulted in several days of good sex some months ago. Otherwise sex life is very so so. Infrequent sex although plenty of mentions of it.

    Quite often she explicitly says “as a joke” that “Don’t do X if you want to see me naked again”. Of course it’s not that we even have sex all that often anyway. But it’s not totally dead bedroom although daily life and the kids mean we really don’t often have time for it.

    She has told me I’m “the love of her life” – quite a while ago.

    Even yesterday before the farting she told me she loved me so much yesterday because she loved seeing me when I spent quality time doing a project with the kids and basically being a good dad. Not that I need her approval to do that.

    She often gets upset and calls me cold and unfeeling and things like that when we fight.

    In our daily life and social circle there is little opportunity to engage dread which is why the high-school girl thing hit her hard. I never even met that woman and hadn’t for twenty years.

    We have some money issues. She knows things are tight and I’m a bit tense but she doesn’t have a clue how bad it is. I’m the main breadwinner. She works part time and makes pocket money. We aren’t in any danger of being on the street, and my job and our medical insurance is safe, and our daily life is manageable but there are severe cash flow problems and some debt.

    I actually think given our situation, she needs more comfort or beta stuff than some girl you meet in a club for a one night stand. And I think there have been quite a few situations recently where she needed MORE comfort and reassurance from me (not about money but on an emotional level) than I gave her and that’s part of the problem.

    I can clearly see a correlation between more/less comfort and things between us. More comfort DOES improve things. Especially since from her perspective I’m a stressed out guy who complains a lot and is irritable and is (plainly) not in complete control of his life and doesn’t like his job. That is a caricature of me but it has some truth for sure and I’m taking action to fix all of it. So when I improve on any of that stuff and I’m less irritable and do more around the house and generally treat her nicer, things ARE better.

    But I think I understood something last night. Simply moving the “comfort dial” up and down doesn’t build attraction. I know too much comfort in a seduction extinguishes attraction and too much attraction without comfort means losing a woman in the opposite direction.

    But the reverse isn’t true I think. Just taking away comfort-building action doesn’t automatically build attraction. Just taking away attraction action doesn’t automatically build comfort. They just leave a void. To build attraction I still need action like dread, to lift, to control the frame and all that. To build comfort I still need to be “nicer” to her and all that.

    So I think I don’t have enough attraction. I’m making some progress in improving comfort where needed. But I really really need to increase attraction and follow the explicit MMSL steps – lifting, sorting out finances.

    Dread is difficult but maybe I can try flirting with waitresses or whatever. I think I posted before but I have slept with some other girls from Tinder when on business trips and when I’m around women I usually get “the eye” or flirting from some – no one serious just the odd fling.

    I’m no Don Juan but I know other women find me attractive. It’s just my wife doesn’t see any of that and I’m in a much more negative headspace when around my day to day life (except my kids who are great and even my wife is pretty cool and fun when in a good mood).

    As for my wife, she’s a good mom and a good cook and she tries her best for the most part. She’s made big effort in the last few months to get fit and lose weight with quite a bit of success and she’s continuing. She guards her weight jealously, but she’s about 5’3” and at her peak was probably around 230 lbs at a guess. I don’t even know what dress size that is? 18? 16?

    But she’s dramatically improved her fitness in 2016 after finding a trainer who works for her. She’s much much fitter, her body shape is clearly changing and building muscle and she’s probably lost at least 40-50 lbs if not more in a slow, sustainable fashion. She’s still overweight but the trend is very positive.

    I would almost think she could be having an affair but she also has very few opportunities in our daily life for the same reasons as me, although she also travels a lot on assignments for her part-time work (and I have the kids). But I think I still have enough value to her and things are still good between us when they are good that she probably isn’t having an affair. No one can know for sure of course.

    Generally I need to have a better positive attitude about life around her.

    Forget my wife in a way. Am I really the man I want to be? Physically, mentally, in career terms? I’m clearly not. If I can give her her comfort and focus on my personal goals, while keeping a positive mental attitude and not letting her affect my emotional state. I can’t expect her to be a good FO if I’m not stepping up as the Captain.

    And that means:

    -Positive mental attitude – no being stressed or irritable and no complaining
    -Independent – not expecting her to make my meals etc just so that I can get to the gym or whatever on time, or rather not relying on that
    -Fixing the money issues – I’m doing this but it will take some time
    -Lifting/eating healthy –
    -Dread where possible – part of fixing the money and lifestyle issues is planning a move back to the city where we met and had the kids before moving here for work reasons and Dread will be a lot easier there but the move will take a couple years to pull off.

  59. Having A Bad Day and Sentient

    One more thing I just remembered. I don’t know how relevant it is, but about a year or so ago I gave my wife my old laptop and she stumbled on a bunch of old pickup material I downloaded years ago.

    Nothing about my extramarital Tinder exploits and nothing about Red Pill or MMSL stuff (which are more recent) but just a random set of PDFs of all kinds of pickup material from all kinds of places most of which I never even got around to reading and don’t know what it contains. Nothing’s perfect, but my opsec on current activities is quite good. This was old stuff. She has also known for years – before we got together that I had a couple of How-To books on Sex and a copy of that pickup book The Game, which have moved a couple of houses with us from my single days and she’s been okay with it (but I don’t think she ever read those).

    She brings up the PDFs quite often – maybe once a month or so. Usually something along the lines of how I was a nerd before I met her and she had to teach me to how to kiss properly and I was so desperate that I downloaded all these things to learn how to do deal with girls (there is some truth to all of this) and how the books are creepy and misogynist and teach men to rape girls etc.

    I usually laugh it off but it happens quite often. Sometimes she says stuff like “Did you read that line in your books?” Or “Don’t try that “dominant” stuff from those books on me”, sometimes even when I AM trying to be dominant.

    Of course she doesn’t know about Red Pill and all that but this is still annoying – how do I handle it?

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