Playing Friends

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

“Rollo, how do I get out of the Friend-Zone?” Never allow yourself to get into it.

Women have used the LJBF (“let just be friends”) rejection for a hundred years because it serves an ego preservation function for her. To a greater or lesser degree, women require attention and the more they have of it the more affirmation they experience, both personally and socially. The LJBF rejection is a Social Convention that has classically ensured a woman can reject a man yet still maintain his previous attention. It also puts the responsibility for the rejection back on his shoulders since, should he decline the ‘offer of friendship’, he is then responsible for entertaining this ‘friendship’.

This of course has the potential to backfire on women these days since the standard AFC response will be to accept an LJBF rejection in the mistaken hope of ‘proving’ himself worthy of her intimacy by being the perfect ‘surrogate boyfriend’ – fulfilling all her attention and loyalty prerequisites with no expectation of reciprocating her own intimacy. I should also point out that this situation is analogous to men using women as “fuck buddies” – fulfilling all his sexual availability needs with no expectations of reciprocating commitment. Needless to say this merely positions the new “friend” into being the ’emotionally supportive’ Beta counterpart to the indifferent Alpha she’ll consistently bang and then complain about – also popularly known as the Emotional Tampon.

The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of ‘friendship’ to him in her rejection she can also sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. After all, she offered to be friends, right? She is absolved of any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.

Men get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the “friends first” mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection (Buffer) is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.

Virtually all guys who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with some variation of what I call a Sniper Mentality. They patiently wait for their one target, to the exception of all others, constantly attempting to prove their quality in doing so – meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like “other guys”) because they’ve bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he’s mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she ‘should’ be comfortable enough to appreciate him as boyfriend material, the Sniper takes his shot.

The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, (and ultimately anti-seductive) rapport, the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort. This is the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of “friendship” and the Sniper mentality, you’ve skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You’re perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says “I think we ought to be intimate” her reaction is to think that everything you’ve done for her up to that point has been a grand ruse. “My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?”

Her most predictable response is then the LJBF rejection. The field has already been tilled by you, it’s only one, very easy step for her to stay in that suspended comfort – “can’t we just be friends?” And then the cycle repeats. The AFC believes the LJBF is a genuine offer (not a rejection) and then falls back into the Sniper mentality. He mustn’t have been convincing enough to prove his worth to her and therefore returns to further proving himself as the perfect boyfriend until he once again presses his intent of intimacy after another period. All this goes on apace until she becomes intimate with a ‘real’ boyfriend and/or he acquires a new target after realizing his efforts with the LJBF girl aren’t bearing fruit.

The problem with a lot of the ‘friend-zone’ advice women tend to offer is that they cast doubt on whether a LJBF rejection is in fact a rejection and not a genuine offer of friendship. To which I’ll say, the only reason the ‘friend-zone’ is such a common issue among men & women for so long is because it’s been repeated so regularly and the outcome so predictable as a rejection. A woman’s behavior is always the only gauge of her intent, and thus when a rejection like LJBF has been so consistently met with the same outcome and behavior (as evidenced by thousands of identical stories from men) it’s only prudent for a Man to behave in kind.

A man’s default response should always be to excuse him from the LJBF situation. The reason for this is because it serves his best interest whether she is testing him or is rejecting him. If he is confident enough in himself to walk away from the sexually tense environment, he proves himself as decisive enough to put himself above being ‘played’ like this. Ergo, he leaves her with the impression that he is the PRIZE, possibly has contacts with better prospective women and is confident enough to take away his attentions from her and thus passes any shit test she might have implied, while placing the responsibility of a re-connection on her (where it should be anyway). If she has in fact had a change of heart (her prerogative, remember?) and is using the LJBF as a means to reject him, he still benefits from all of the above and plants the ‘seed of doubt’ in her about her initial estimation of his acceptability for her intimacy. And even if she is truly not interested in the guy, he walks away on his feet and not his knees, by playing “friend” with her and wasting still more time that could be far better spent with more productive prospects.

It is really one of the few win-win Game situations for a guy to make a wholesale withdrawal of his attentions when he is confronted with an LJBF. Women know all too well how an LJBF places social pressure on a guy to accept what basically amounts to an ultimatum of negative social proof, and that’s a hell of a shit test no matter what her real intent is. If the guy turns down her offer of friendship, he’s the dickhead, not her. But the guy that can do what common sense and gut instinct points out to him will be the one to succeed, with her, other women and himself.

Human being’s natural inclination is to avoid confrontation. When a man makes an approach to intimacy with a woman this becomes confrontational. If she is unsure of a man’s sexual acceptability for her intimacy she must resort to psycho-social, learned behaviors to diffuse this confrontation. Preferably these techniques should be reinforced beforehand and proven to diffuse just such a confrontation, thus the LJBF response is acted out through generations of women across many different cultures – quite simply it works more often than not. You can also apply this to the Boyfriend Disclaimer; women who not-so-nonchalantly weave into their casual conversation that they have a boyfriend in a preemptive effort to diffuse a potential suitor’s interests. It’s basically a proactive LJBF rejection.

It’s the guy who is unwilling to accept these conventions that makes the most lasting impressions of confidence with women. It goes against what our common human heritage dictates for us – avoid conflict, don’t make waves, be her friend, etc. By not accepting a LJBF you emphatically make known that you are good at confrontation, you have an understanding of her motives and you’re confident enough in yourself to make it known. Not only does this impress her with potential for security provision it also implies future confidence. The problem for most guys is enacting this and making it a default behavior when our biology would have us move away from conflict rather than engage in an unacceptable social dynamic that is subtly damaging to his own interests.


  1. Five years ago, I stopped having any single women as friends, unless FWBs; I decided I will not be LJBFd. I realized I derived no benefit from having a single woman as a friend, because there’s nothng I could do with them that I couldn’t do with my buddies, and in fact, usually less (since guys like guy stuff, and women like buying clothes), so… there’s no point. I kicked my one remaining female friend to the curb, and have had no regrets. I had one FWB this summer, till she tired of it. Her loss. I got what I wanted out of the situation, more or less.

  2. A comment at Solomon II’s site:

    “If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.”

  3. Looking back to my college beta days, I made so many mistakes it isn’t even funny.
    1. Accepting “friendships” with “LJBFs”
    2. Not figuring out that “LJBF” does not really mean what it says
    3. Having too many women as platonic friends. It makes you a beta orbiter even if you don’t intend to be one. The only men who hang out with women are LJBF beta orbiters, or gay.
    4. Having too many, um, homely women as platonic friends. Not too many things DLV like hanging out with women you aren’t banging, especially homely women.

  4. I didn’t intend this to be an essay on the legitimacy of inter-gender friendships (I’ll get to that), but rather seeing the LJBF as what it is, a rejection.

  5. This one of the few concepts I did figure out by the time I got to college. I had no problems making friends and I realized (in high school) the women that said such a thing never followed up on even being friendly, let alone more. So I’d just say: Thanks but I’ve got enough friends.

    Where my biggest mistake was, as you point out, Rollo, was putting the cart before the horse – comfort before attraction. If one thinks about the Matrix in which we were raised, it’s a perfectly logical error to make but a huge one nonetheless .

  6. What sometimes still happens to me, is that I meet a woman that I find attractive and get on really well with… and I forget myself and before I know I’ve been talking with her for 4+ hours and I haven’t made a proper move yet.

    It’s not easy to go back and try and set a sexual frame… I do it anyway but the results are less good than when I set that frame much earlier.

  7. I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on.

    If a man chooses the LJBF status, then hopefully its b/c he really just wants to be friends and nothing more. Otherwise i think its best for both parties to not muddy the waters and save themselves the drama later.

    Plus people should ALWAYS stick to one simple general rule of thumb when it comes to relationships – RECIPROCATION. Be it sexual or non sexual relationships. never give what someone is not willing or able to give back to you is my philosophy.

  8. I never been LJBFd. Probably because I broke up with most of my girlfriends. However, any guy should realize that its just a girls way of letting you down easy.

  9. Realistically, I don’t know why LJBF is one of the main topics on the Game/Manosphere blogs. Everyone should already know that it means a girl is just not interested in having sex with you. Its so damn elementary.

  10. Neecy says:

    “I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on.”

    Great advice Neecy. Looking back, nearly all the sex I’ve had with women was with ones who I had sex with on the night I met them. You got to strike while the iron is hot. Don’t give them time to change their minds.

  11. Boy, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh, because it’s true; cry because I spent a lot of my younger (AFC) years doing the LJBF dynamic hoping it would turn into a romantic/sexual relationship. Boy was I wrong! And boy did I waste a lot of time doing this. Women really shouldn’t do this fraud game and guys shouldn’t buy it. Today, I have one woman as a friend and we’ve been friends for years … I’ve never been sexually attracted to her so I have no agenda. The others whom I tried to keep the LJBF going? They’ve never contacted me since. It’s a loser/fraud game for men, and really it is for women, too. There’s nothing to be gained by mincing words.

    Great blog, I’m enjoying it very much.

  12. The way to handle BF disclaim is to act like she never said it and keep going, whereas walking away is answer to LJBF.

  13. Cat:

    It really is elementary. In a sense I knew that LJBF meant “I don’t want to have sex with you” but we couldn’t put that into words.

    Where the manosphere has been most helpful is instruction and coaching on what to do after you get the LJBF. Usually I’d try to be nice and “prove” myself though I knew i had no chance with the girl. Exactly the wrong thing to do. The manosphere tries to teach that after an LJBF you blow the girl out; you don’t hang with her; you don’t invest another second of time or resources.

    This also shows men the power they have in the SMP. Sure, women hold the sex card. But men hold the investment and commitment card. And so many men don’t even realize that the women are looking for investment and commitment. They don’t realize the leverage they have and could have.

  14. Thank God I figured this out when I was 18 or so.

    I’ve had, one, perhaps two, LJBFs but I could tell they were rejections, so I set my attentions elsewhere. Now, I was beta as beta could be, but damn, It really pisses me off that guys will actually *accept* an LJBF. It’s fine to accept it if the girl is in your social circle and you have casual contact with… her, but one-on-one time? Hell no.

  15. Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will get the hamster spinning.

    One should not be beta who kisses her ass. Even when you are friends with a girl, you should be alpha.

  16. This.

    “If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.”

    and this.

    “Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will get the hamster spinning.”

    It’s not about “not being friends” with women, it is about not accepting a parasitic relationship. Female friends are AWESOME as long as it isn’t a one sided arrangement. I can’t tell you how much fun I have had having women in my social circles. As long as you maintain the proper frame there is never any danger of falling into the trap of providing her with attention at the expense of your balls.

  17. I agree completely. One of the most powerful and influential friendships I’ve ever had was with a brilliant man who I had a good deal of respect for who essentially help transform the way I viewed the world completely. He challenged me mentally and emotionally and his work continues to effect my life on a day to day basis as I refuse to be complacent and continue to seek personal and intellectual growth. In short, he changed my life for the better and I often say that I really can’t imagine how my life would have been had I not crossed paths with him when I did.

    The only problem was that he wanted to fuck me and i certainly did not want to fuck him. In many ways, I was fond of him and I admired his brilliance, but it was more so like looking up to a big brother than anything. He tried a few times to no avail to turn the relationship sexual until he became frustrated after 2.5 years and decided that we were in a lop-sided friendship where I was mainly the person receiving any benefits from the relationship (life, career, guy advice, etc) whereas he didn’t see any real benefit being reciprocated. I was a little annoyed by this, but was able to extricate my contentions out of the situations in order to concede. He was simply absolutely right. The resentment was growing more apparent with every story I would tell him about one guy or the other and eventually he limited our convos to only those philosophical in nature or abstract ideas/theories. Shortly afterwards, we stopped talking completely. I wasn’t sorry to see him go honestly, our time together was well-spent and I gained and grew so much from it. To this day, I think of him fondly. We have made some correspondences here and there, but they’ve been limited to email and it’s possible we’ll never talk again. All in all, he’s one LJBF that I have the utmost respect for.

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  19. One of the more gut-punching experiences of my life has been the preemptive LJBF, before the man has actually made any overt moves and often when I am not particularly interested in the woman in the first place. It always mindfucks me as to whether I am really not in control of the signals I am sending or if she just has a hair trigger paranoia that everyone is hitting on her (or feels the need to reject men to feel like she has options).

  20. It should be elementary, but way too many men were taught by their mothers (including myself) that you can “nice” your way into a girl’s heart (and pants). Accepting the LJBF and plowing forward is doubling down on that strategy that their mothers said was a sure thing.

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  22. I wasn’t sorry to see him go honestly, our time together was well-spent and I gained and grew so much from it. To this day, I think of him fondly.

    Every guy should read liveiseasy’s post, and then read this quoted section again. And again. And again, until he truly understands just how selfish a woman can be and still think highly of herself.

    She benefited from him, despite knowing what he wanted and that she was never going to give it to him, and continued to string him along until he finally got sick of being used and left. And then, she said she “wasn’t sorry to see him go honestly.”

    Oh, but she continues to think of him fondly, and has the utmost respect for him. Isn’t she a good person?

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  24. Let’s not be so myopic, Black Cat. Yes loveiseasy had a selfish interest in her friendship with this chump. But we all have friendships for reasons that are ultimately selfish. The chump’s selfish interest was the hope/anticipation of boinking her. And while he was too dense to see that it wasn’t going to happen at the time – and while 2.5 years is an excruciating length of time to witness anyone getting strung along like that – the best takeaway for him from this “friendship” should have been a lesson that the proper response to an LJBF is to cut one’s losses and walk. If he didn’t get the message then woe is him, facepalm etc. But let’s not hate on loveiseasy for doing exactly what we’d expect from her.

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  26. I really feel like Neo in the Matrix. I am now on the jump scene “no problem…. free my mind… freee my mindd….”

  27. My first girlfriend broke up with my by saying LJBF when we were 14. I found out right away that LJBF is a lie.
    Over the years, I’ve heard LJBF more than a few times and always walked away from the girl because I simply didn’t want to be friends with her. Girls told me over and over that such a move was mean and that I should a take the LJBF offer at face value. Oh well.

  28. To follow up on BlackCat re loveiseasy, and drawing on Neecy’s point on reciprocation as the golden standard, I’m curious, how many LJBF acceptances result in a genuine reciprocal friendship?

    In other words, how many of these girls give as a real friend and not just take?

    My experience as the sucker/chump who accepts the LJBF offer is she was insincere, the offer was a formality, and she avoids me thereafter. Or, she’s willing to continue taking benefit from our relationship, but unwilling or at least reluctant to give (non-sexual) benefit in kind to me.

  29. “Every guy should read liveiseasy’s post, and then read this quoted section again. And again. And again, until he truly understands just how selfish a woman can be and still think highly of herself.”

    BlackCat I might have written your post word-for-word. I felt sick to my stomach when I read her post. She is garbage that considers herself awesome.

    Men need to understand that when a woman offers him “friendship”, it is literally the least friendly thing she can ever do to you. They also need to understand that deep down inside, SHE KNOWS THIS. Walk away, and never think of her again.

  30. Rollo and Co. Perhaps you guys can give me some solid advice.

    First off, thanks for opening my eyes.

    Back in September, a girl LJBF’d me and I was thinking i was cool by saying, “sure, i’ll be your friend.” This was a stupid mistake. I want to just be done with her and move on, but she’s constantly wanting to hang out and such. I think she legitimately wants to be my friend. We’ll go rock climbing, grab food and shoot the shit. She’s a cool person. However, I hate the cognitive backlash I suffer whenever my emotional centers begin to idealize this girl because I’m still into her sexually. My good friend suggests that I just slowly stop responding to her and her texts, but I feel so goddamn caught up in it all.

    I dislike feeling manipulated and used. I don’t spend any money on her, but the investment in time and energy seems a bit bunk given that I’m not getting what I want out of it.

    Do you suggest that I just cut ties with her and withdraw my affections and such? It gets weird just because she’s the one who always initiates anything. She’s not like the usual LJBF who will say that and then not retract. Still, I get the feeling she just enjoys having a guy around who makes her feel good and doesn’t get to fuck her.

    Anyone else been in a situation like this and can give solid advice? I’m considering just deleting her number and deleting her texts when she sends them until she stops bothering me.

  31. Fortis,

    It’s a lopsided transaction. She gets your attention and feels, you feel manipulated and used.

    Ignore a few texts, create some distance, etc. It’s time for her to add some value. If she doesn’t fuck you or help you get laid by offering her up her friends, then it’s a waste of time and you shouldn’t feel bad about ignoring her. If she doesn’t come around, express interest in her friends. If she still doesn’t come around, disengage.

    A real friend would consider your needs.

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  33. I just got LJBF’d today. I saw it coming. For the months up to now after finding this blog I was still talking to this girl I’ve been friends with for close to 10 years. I’ve always had a thing for her.

    I was trying to game her for months and see if I could spark any interest and get her to see me as more than a friend. I thought I was having some success but now I think I was just using what I thought was Game to delude myself into thinking it was really working — and sustaining my belief in blue pill reality.

    Today I just couldn’t take the torment anymore and told her how I really felt — that I wanted to go out with her.

    I read this post before I told her the deal. When my worst fear happened and she told me that she wasn’t interested in me and just wanted to be friends…I told her I couldn’t be friends with her if she didn’t want to be with me.

    I just told her straight that if she didn’t want to be with me, we can’t be friends, because hanging out with her / hugging her / etc. would feel like torture. And that was the torture I was already putting myself through by playing friends with her when really what I wanted was to be in a relationship with her.

    She didn’t get angry or anything. She just said she understood and couldn’t really fight with me. It ended on good terms. It hurts like fuck and to be completely honest I feel completely devastated and like the one thing I wanted most in life just hit the floor and shattered into a million pieces…

    But it ended on good terms.

    I feel much better having gotten rejected after putting myself out there, compared to going on playing friends and hoping that something would happen eventually, when I think I knew deep down it was a lost cause all along. I just didn’t want to believe it. Because I was afraid of what’s happening right now: no more “friends.” No more delusions. Just the gut wrenching feeling of being rejected.

    But it actually feels like a weight’s been lifted off my chest. Now I know that she knows I really wanted to be with her, but I also respected my own needs at the same time. She knows how I felt, and she knows that I’m in a lot of pain, but she also knows that I’m not going to cave and play the friends game. Thanks to this blog I’ve learned to have self respect, and there’s no anger or hostility or bitterness or resentment required.

    I told her straight up that seeing her, talking to her, and hugging her, knowing now that she has no interest in me, would just feel like getting stabbed in the heart a million times. And that’s the truth. I told her I wanted to be with her and if she didn’t want to be with me, then we couldn’t be friends. That it was nothing personal, it was just that I didn’t want to be her friend, I wanted to be in a relationship with her, and being friends would just torment me.

    Some guys might say that’s “giving her too much.” But you know what I say? Fuck you. I feel great getting all that off my chest to her. I wanted her to know how I felt. And the end result is still the same: no more friendship. It’s terminated. The only difference is it didn’t end on a hostile or angry note. I just clearly expressed my feelings to her and then had the self respect and dignity to walk away on my feet and not my knees.

    It hurts like hell, but it feels good to be taking responsibility for myself. It doesn’t hurt as much or feel as bad as the frustration of playing friends and hoping there’ll be something more. That is chronic hell. Now that I definitely know she has no sexual interest in me, I at least have something to work with and can let it go and move on. Having my hope blown to smithereens doesn’t feel very nice but I’d rather have that happen than keep clinging onto a situation that was so painful and damaging to me.

    I say if you’re in a situation like mine, tell her how you feel and get it over with. Almost guaranteed she’s going to reject you, so prepare for it. But you’re just facing what you’ve known to be true for a long time — that it’s been a lost cause all along.

    Now all the inner stuff is bubbling to the surface. Realizing how messed up my life is, how many problems I have, all the abandonment and rejection pain, all the fears, all the attachment to loneliness and depression and anxiety.

    I need to change. I feel more ready to do that now that I made my feelings crystal clear to her and was rejected. It hurts so much, but it feels liberating at the same time. As hard as it was to terminate the friendship, I thought about all the time I spent with her, and it really was just awful. It was awful because I was so in love with her and I was always so happy to be around her and we weren’t in a relationship, and now I know she was never even interested in me.

    But I have the dignity of terminating the friendship in a calm, mature way. I didn’t get upset with her or anything. I just made it clear that being friends with her would just torment me because I didn’t want to be her friend, I wanted to be in a relationship with her. The message got through clearly and she didn’t get upset. She felt awkward but she respected my terminating the friendship and didn’t challenge me about it.

    I feel like crawling into a hole and not eating for a week, or just curling up and dying. But hey. No shame. You have to feel the painful feelings in order to have the confidence that you can deal with them, and that they don’t run your life for you. I have to face all this pain I’m feeling now in order to learn that I can handle it. It isn’t the end of the world, even though it feels like it. Even though I have all this pain that I feel like I can’t deal with, I *can* deal with it, and I am dealing with it. I’m okay, and it’s safe to let it go.

    Unplugging is not a pleasant experience, but it’s important that we don’t resist it. It’s all about loving and respecting yourself. That includes smartening up and being honest with yourself and your feelings, and only pursuing girls that have a high interest level in you. If you’re starting to play friends with a girl, stop — don’t let yourself even get into that situation. Have to make your intentions clear early on, whether it’s subtly or more directly.

    I was so afraid of being overt and asking her out, because I thought if I kept gaming her for longer and longer, I could get her to want me without ever being direct.

    In short term dating or whatever that can be a good strategy, I’m sure. But not in playing friends, especially like in my situation where it’s around 10 years into it. I say just be direct and get it over with because you’re not doing yourself any favors by bottling all your feelings up. Better to let them out and feel the pain of rejection so you can accept it and move on with your life, as hard as it is.

  34. My preferred response to LJBF is to put my arm around her shoulder, pull her inward, look her in the eyes, and say, “Friendship is all that I want.”

    Then I put my hand on the back of her neck and go in for the kiss.

    If she accepts the kiss, I gaze in her eyes and say, “I’m a special kind of a friend.” Then I go full-caveman with it. If she resists the caveman, I take a step back and lay some more groundwork.

    If she denies the kiss, I smile, say “I don’t give second chances,” and walk out. Then I make a note in my phone to ensure that I don’t forget. You have to be really fucking cocky to pull that off.

  35. My preferred response to LJBF is to put my arm around her shoulder, pull her inward, look her in the eyes, and say, “Friendship is all that I want.”

    I should expand on that further.

    When she says LJBF, I’ll feign beta-ness, nodding like a sad puppy. Then, after some moments of silence, I go in for a hug. Naturally she complies.

    Then I pile on the Alpha.

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  37. When I was 18, I said this to myself: “Better to ask and get the answer you don’t want than wait a long time and get it anyway after agonizing over it.” Softek’s story is a warning to us all. Saturday I am meeting someone for an “English speaking date.” (it’s Japan) Second meeting, no biggie as I have a date before that too and I just prefer to eat with company. She said “I am not interested in a boyfriend right now” before our first date, no worries as I am really just using her for companionship during meals and an opportunity to speak something other than Japanese all day. But if she comes across as cute and interested, I’ll drop the invite. “I think we should have sex.” “I’m not interested in a boyfriend.” “I didn’t say I wanted to be your boyfriend.” if she goes cold, her loss, and it could be over though I also might just keep stringing her along to watch how she handles post being invited to bang tension. In all, it doesn’t matter to me because I have buffers in the form of other women and other opportunities, which is the best psychological defense, really. The comment about sniper mentality is spot on. Overfixation builds overtension builds awkwardness and sets the man in an inferior position which is never attractive.

  38. I wish I knew this as a teenager, or young man.
    This is a message that needs to be sent out by men to young men, by their fathers, and reinforced through “man finishing school” – where men can have mentors that will tell them the pitfalls of relationships.

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  40. I don’t understand whether you are advocating having the last word with an express beta hidden “butthurt” response, “No, I have enough friends and I need a woman,” thereby burning bridges. ???

    Isn’t it better to get the last laugh (and maintain hope) by NOT expressly rejecting the friendship offer, but then go radio silent and literally never respond to her even for months until she’s sent at least 3 texts really trying to get you back in her life?

    Like I have a LJBF situation right now where the girl does not know much about me at all (does not know that I am red pill aware–not that she even knows what that is). It is impossible for me to “show” her that I have game by text. She has a BF, but yet SHE initiated contact with me (we had met 6 months ago). She keeps sending texts. She would not respond at all if she were not interested.

    She says beta beta, complaining about her BF, implying that she never has any fun, acting like she’s going to dump him.

    If she meets up with me in person, I will try to push her against the wall and make out with her immediately, because she needs to see that I am a lover not a provider.

    But she has pre-emptively, via text, tried to LJBF me, not knowing that I really don’t care. I do not have one-itus for her, and I have other plates spinning. She’s underestimated me (or overestimated my betaness).

    So is my move to simply go radio silent or even say “lol” then radio silence, not butthurt explicitly tell her that I don’t accept friendship offer.

    And now I will indeed go radio silent until SHE invites me to do something fun. I gave her an offer to do something fun and she fucked up (so far) by declining it.

    Her loss, and that is TRULY my inner mentality about it.

  41. I will translate Loveiseasy’s womanly post:

    “me me I me I I I I me I I I benefitted me me me I me me I.”

  42. Softek’s post is the most beta I’ve read on the internet in a long time. I know it’s old, but dude, that dude had a lot of work to do at the time he made that comment.

    No dude you don’t “put yourself out there” by professing your puppy love to her in words — you literally physically kiss her and attempt to make a move and either get rejected or not.

    No woman ever agrees in advance, using words, to “love you like that,” especially after you were her beta puppy dog for 10 years!!!! You don’t negotiate physical attraction, not with words anyway.

  43. I was sitting across from this girl at a table outside a bar, talking, and she was just about to LJBF me, but I stopped her mid-sentence, took out my phone, and said “wait a minute, hold that thought”. I requested an UBER and the app notified it’d be there to collect me in 3 minutes. So I let her hang for the 3 minutes, as if I was doing something important on my phone, and then just before my pickup arrived, I said “go on” she gave me her LJBF line, I looked at her playfully, and chuckled, then told her her to stand up, she did, I got up too, then I smilingly walked up to her, kissed her on her cheek, and said “Goodbye Sweetheart”, walked up to the cab, and just before I got in, I casually said “oh, here it is, [her name], delete”, as I deleted her number off my phone. Got in the cab and text another girl to say there was a change of plans, and that I was free to meet up with her if she was still free too.

  44. Very insightful. I think the more pressing question would be: how do I become a guy that is not thought of as being one to be friendzoned? What are friendzone proof plays or friendzone proof patterns?

  45. Gents of the Red Pill.

    Pro advice needed. Although I consider myself Alpha, I got my first LJBF in over 13 years 4 days ago (this demonstrates that we are not immune to mistakes). I’ll do my best to summarize the story.

    Met this Arab Muslim girl online who is born and raised in Canada. We chatted for some time and she really liked me and I liked her. Went to see her end of July (about 1.5 months ago-I live in another city). I had just broke up with my Russian X-girlfriend (who I totally dominated).

    First encounter was very nice but I didn’t make a move (stupid idea) thinking that dealing with a more conservative person, I should behave and take it slow (I’m also Arab Muslim and the relationship was supposed to lead to a serious long-term relationship as per our agreement. Some could argue this is a case of OneItIs). After that her dad got a heart attack so I couldn’t see her except one more time at night a few days after. We hung out on the lakeshore in a romantic place. I escalated a bit sexually that night (hugging, holding hands and bs like that) but no kiss or explicit sexual behavior (I was too slow to make a move, mistake as well).

    Then I left and she traveled to Europe to go to her best friend’s wedding. For the 7 days she was there, she didn’t contact me at all (red flag #1). I was the one usually initiating contact (mistake as well as it made her feel I was available). I really liked the girl and I thought she liked me too and I started talking less to other women (Sniper-mode kicked in but I realized too late). Upon her return, we spoke a few times and things were going well. We were planning a trip for her to see me in Toronto next week when suddenly she dropped the Nuke: telling me she didn’t feel those “butterfly tingles in her stomach” and that although she likes me a lot, it feels like a more “friendly vibe” which doesn’t have the chemistry she was looking for. She also said long distance was too much to handle for her ( from my experience long distance makes things cold and is very difficult to manage).

    Now, she is an Alpha chick (who is emotionally cold by the way) my sense is that she is seeing someone else who lives close to her as her attitude changed significantly in only a few days. The last call between us had some tension, and she said that she doesn’t want to continue and that LJBF. I didn’t reply and she told me to think about. I told her to think about coming to see me one more time before making up her mind for good as I believe she still has a question mark on what exactly to classify me as (Lover, Provider or Beta-Orbiter)??

    It’s been 4 days with no contact.

    The question for the experts is: how I should handle this keeping in mind this is a long distance relationship and that, even if I’m “friend-zoned”, there is no real effort or price to pay from my end:

    1. Completely avoid contact and move on (seems to be the main advice)

    2. Leave the door open for some type of future action (never know what could happen) by saying that I’m cool with “staying in touch” (not explicitly saying I’m a friend) and then perhaps if I’m in the same city as she is at some point I can give her a call and see how she handles it (this will be my shit test to her). I visit that city often as I have a lot friends there. She is also a hot model and has lots of girlfriends that I can potentially get to know through her, so I will be the one benefiting either by potentially changing her mind and getting some booty or by getting hooked up through her.

    3. Sending her a message saying I cannot be a friend and that if she changes her mind and wants to see me she can get her lazy ass down here.

    What is the logical Alpha approach to this situation?

  46. Moody, she already classified you. 4 day no contact, LJBF, etc. She’s moved on to bigger and better dicks. This is not worth your investment unless you want to spend your life extracting love from a cold person. Move on.

  47. Rollo, are you suggesting verbally accepting her friendship offer (so as to comply with society’s rules), then withdrawing interest completely in the case of an LJBF rejection?

  48. So lets sum this up, if a guy rejects the LJBF from a girl, you’ve pointed out that this makes him a ‘dickhead’ I disagree and agree with this statement, because it depends on how the other carried it out. I don’t know why guys a labelled as dickheads to be honest if they reject the friendzone. It could be that the man was friends with the girl before and ended up liking her and she rejected him with “lets just be friends” well that’s a nice way of saying no lets be honest. so what would you rather do? Say yes and feel undervalued by someone or looking at the person that dismissed you’re honesty and feel like a dickhead knowing she likes someone else, Or be the ‘dickhead’ that says ‘No thanks’? you’re basically saying that no matter what choice that guy makes he’s a dickhead for it and I disagree with that.

  49. God dude this post is out of date….girls level up fast man, really fast…the go to phrase they use nowadays is “I have a boyfriend” or simply “I’m in a relationship” – when I would suspect maybe 1 out of 10 girls that say that are in an actual committed relationship.

    The shit girls use varies week to week if not day to day to test men, they constantly are pushing men into corners. The last strong hold women has is the actual state – police stepping in because a girl has no other way to tell a guy off. It literally is at that level now. How many guys reading this can attest to the fact that a girl will cry HARASSMENT almost instantly if she ‘thinks’ you seem ‘needy’ or ‘beta’?? I bet you almost every guy has experienced this nowadays.

    The kind of shit girls say is constantly changing to suit their rationalizations. At one point in time maybe 4 or 5 years ago you could sort of narrow down how an interaction with a girl would go, but girls have been fed so much psychological ammo from men trying to ‘game’ them that most girls are pretty fucking skilled at batting away any advances you think your going to make on her. The content on site is great man, but unfortunately the truth is some of this is actually slightly outdated simply because girls are constantly rephrasing ways to get rid of ‘beta’ guys who are pursuing them or asking them out. Like I said the common one I notice nowadays is “I have a boyfriend” but honestly even this is a bit outdated and obvious. Its pretty insane because you can literally plan interactions with girls because they all have the same go to lines, I mean thats what game is after all. The problem is girls are fed a shit ton of psychological ammo from men and use it against us constantly. Men need to shut the fuck up for a change with girls. For every 10 words there is one word that would explain EVERYTHING he’s thinking 10x better. For every 10 actions he thinks ‘HE NEEDS TO DO” there is one action which will suffice. Seriously man, guys need to learn to shut the fuck up when talking to girls. Theres only two ways to game them; either act like a girl and talk covert or say only as much as necessary and let your actions do the talking for you. I advocate men shut the fuck up more and let there actions talk for them.

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