Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.
“Rollo, how do I get out of the Friend-Zone?” Never allow yourself to get into it.
Women have used the LJBF (“let just be friends”) rejection for a hundred years because it serves an ego preservation function for her. To a greater or lesser degree, women require attention and the more they have of it the more affirmation they experience, both personally and socially. The LJBF rejection is a Social Convention that has classically ensured a woman can reject a man yet still maintain his previous attention. It also puts the responsibility for the rejection back on his shoulders since, should he decline the ‘offer of friendship’, he is then responsible for entertaining this ‘friendship’.
This of course has the potential to backfire on women these days since the standard AFC response will be to accept an LJBF rejection in the mistaken hope of ‘proving’ himself worthy of her intimacy by being the perfect ‘surrogate boyfriend’ – fulfilling all her attention and loyalty prerequisites with no expectation of reciprocating her own intimacy. I should also point out that this situation is analogous to men using women as “fuck buddies” – fulfilling all his sexual availability needs with no expectations of reciprocating commitment. Needless to say this merely positions the new “friend” into being the ’emotionally supportive’ Beta counterpart to the indifferent Alpha she’ll consistently bang and then complain about – also popularly known as the Emotional Tampon.
The LJBF rejection also serves as an ego preservation for her in that having offered the false olive branch of ‘friendship’ to him in her rejection she can also sleep that night knowing that she (and any of her peers) wont think any less of herself. After all, she offered to be friends, right? She is absolved of any feelings of personal guilt or any responsibilities for his feelings if she still wants to remain amiable with him.
Men get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the “friends first” mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection (Buffer) is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.
Virtually all guys who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with some variation of what I call a Sniper Mentality. They patiently wait for their one target, to the exception of all others, constantly attempting to prove their quality in doing so – meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like “other guys”) because they’ve bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he’s mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she ‘should’ be comfortable enough to appreciate him as boyfriend material, the Sniper takes his shot.
The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, (and ultimately anti-seductive) rapport, the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort. This is the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of “friendship” and the Sniper mentality, you’ve skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You’re perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says “I think we ought to be intimate” her reaction is to think that everything you’ve done for her up to that point has been a grand ruse. “My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?”
Her most predictable response is then the LJBF rejection. The field has already been tilled by you, it’s only one, very easy step for her to stay in that suspended comfort – “can’t we just be friends?” And then the cycle repeats. The AFC believes the LJBF is a genuine offer (not a rejection) and then falls back into the Sniper mentality. He mustn’t have been convincing enough to prove his worth to her and therefore returns to further proving himself as the perfect boyfriend until he once again presses his intent of intimacy after another period. All this goes on apace until she becomes intimate with a ‘real’ boyfriend and/or he acquires a new target after realizing his efforts with the LJBF girl aren’t bearing fruit.
The problem with a lot of the ‘friend-zone’ advice women tend to offer is that they cast doubt on whether a LJBF rejection is in fact a rejection and not a genuine offer of friendship. To which I’ll say, the only reason the ‘friend-zone’ is such a common issue among men & women for so long is because it’s been repeated so regularly and the outcome so predictable as a rejection. A woman’s behavior is always the only gauge of her intent, and thus when a rejection like LJBF has been so consistently met with the same outcome and behavior (as evidenced by thousands of identical stories from men) it’s only prudent for a Man to behave in kind.
A man’s default response should always be to excuse him from the LJBF situation. The reason for this is because it serves his best interest whether she is testing him or is rejecting him. If he is confident enough in himself to walk away from the sexually tense environment, he proves himself as decisive enough to put himself above being ‘played’ like this. Ergo, he leaves her with the impression that he is the PRIZE, possibly has contacts with better prospective women and is confident enough to take away his attentions from her and thus passes any shit test she might have implied, while placing the responsibility of a re-connection on her (where it should be anyway). If she has in fact had a change of heart (her prerogative, remember?) and is using the LJBF as a means to reject him, he still benefits from all of the above and plants the ‘seed of doubt’ in her about her initial estimation of his acceptability for her intimacy. And even if she is truly not interested in the guy, he walks away on his feet and not his knees, by playing “friend” with her and wasting still more time that could be far better spent with more productive prospects.
It is really one of the few win-win Game situations for a guy to make a wholesale withdrawal of his attentions when he is confronted with an LJBF. Women know all too well how an LJBF places social pressure on a guy to accept what basically amounts to an ultimatum of negative social proof, and that’s a hell of a shit test no matter what her real intent is. If the guy turns down her offer of friendship, he’s the dickhead, not her. But the guy that can do what common sense and gut instinct points out to him will be the one to succeed, with her, other women and himself.
Human being’s natural inclination is to avoid confrontation. When a man makes an approach to intimacy with a woman this becomes confrontational. If she is unsure of a man’s sexual acceptability for her intimacy she must resort to psycho-social, learned behaviors to diffuse this confrontation. Preferably these techniques should be reinforced beforehand and proven to diffuse just such a confrontation, thus the LJBF response is acted out through generations of women across many different cultures – quite simply it works more often than not. You can also apply this to the Boyfriend Disclaimer; women who not-so-nonchalantly weave into their casual conversation that they have a boyfriend in a preemptive effort to diffuse a potential suitor’s interests. It’s basically a proactive LJBF rejection.
It’s the guy who is unwilling to accept these conventions that makes the most lasting impressions of confidence with women. It goes against what our common human heritage dictates for us – avoid conflict, don’t make waves, be her friend, etc. By not accepting a LJBF you emphatically make known that you are good at confrontation, you have an understanding of her motives and you’re confident enough in yourself to make it known. Not only does this impress her with potential for security provision it also implies future confidence. The problem for most guys is enacting this and making it a default behavior when our biology would have us move away from conflict rather than engage in an unacceptable social dynamic that is subtly damaging to his own interests.
Five years ago, I stopped having any single women as friends, unless FWBs; I decided I will not be LJBFd. I realized I derived no benefit from having a single woman as a friend, because there’s nothng I could do with them that I couldn’t do with my buddies, and in fact, usually less (since guys like guy stuff, and women like buying clothes), so… there’s no point. I kicked my one remaining female friend to the curb, and have had no regrets. I had one FWB this summer, till she tired of it. Her loss. I got what I… Read more »
A comment at Solomon II’s site:
“If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.”
Looking back to my college beta days, I made so many mistakes it isn’t even funny.
1. Accepting “friendships” with “LJBFs”
2. Not figuring out that “LJBF” does not really mean what it says
3. Having too many women as platonic friends. It makes you a beta orbiter even if you don’t intend to be one. The only men who hang out with women are LJBF beta orbiters, or gay.
4. Having too many, um, homely women as platonic friends. Not too many things DLV like hanging out with women you aren’t banging, especially homely women.
I didn’t intend this to be an essay on the legitimacy of inter-gender friendships (I’ll get to that), but rather seeing the LJBF as what it is, a rejection.
This one of the few concepts I did figure out by the time I got to college. I had no problems making friends and I realized (in high school) the women that said such a thing never followed up on even being friendly, let alone more. So I’d just say: Thanks but I’ve got enough friends. Where my biggest mistake was, as you point out, Rollo, was putting the cart before the horse – comfort before attraction. If one thinks about the Matrix in which we were raised, it’s a perfectly logical error to make but a huge one nonetheless… Read more »
What sometimes still happens to me, is that I meet a woman that I find attractive and get on really well with… and I forget myself and before I know I’ve been talking with her for 4+ hours and I haven’t made a proper move yet.
It’s not easy to go back and try and set a sexual frame… I do it anyway but the results are less good than when I set that frame much earlier.
I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on. If a man chooses the LJBF status, then hopefully its b/c he really just wants to be friends and nothing more. Otherwise i think its best for both parties to not… Read more »
I never been LJBFd. Probably because I broke up with most of my girlfriends. However, any guy should realize that its just a girls way of letting you down easy.
Realistically, I don’t know why LJBF is one of the main topics on the Game/Manosphere blogs. Everyone should already know that it means a girl is just not interested in having sex with you. Its so damn elementary.
Cat: It really is elementary. In a sense I knew that LJBF meant “I don’t want to have sex with you” but we couldn’t put that into words. Where the manosphere has been most helpful is instruction and coaching on what to do after you get the LJBF. Usually I’d try to be nice and “prove” myself though I knew i had no chance with the girl. Exactly the wrong thing to do. The manosphere tries to teach that after an LJBF you blow the girl out; you don’t hang with her; you don’t invest another second of time or… Read more »
It should be elementary, but way too many men were taught by their mothers (including myself) that you can “nice” your way into a girl’s heart (and pants). Accepting the LJBF and plowing forward is doubling down on that strategy that their mothers said was a sure thing.
There are always newcomers, though, Cat Patrol; ‘red pill’ takers whose eyes are just being opened. Gotta share with them…
Neecy says: “I agree Rollo. Sexual attraction is almost instant with most people. Therefore, no man should have to build it with a woman. If she is trying to LJBF you, it should be clear she has no sexual desire for you – at least not initially. But I find its rare that over time sexual attraction develops for men who you don’t have an immediate sexual desire for early on.” Great advice Neecy. Looking back, nearly all the sex I’ve had with women was with ones who I had sex with on the night I met them. You got… Read more »
Boy, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh, because it’s true; cry because I spent a lot of my younger (AFC) years doing the LJBF dynamic hoping it would turn into a romantic/sexual relationship. Boy was I wrong! And boy did I waste a lot of time doing this. Women really shouldn’t do this fraud game and guys shouldn’t buy it. Today, I have one woman as a friend and we’ve been friends for years … I’ve never been sexually attracted to her so I have no agenda. The others whom I tried to keep the LJBF going?… Read more »
The way to handle BF disclaim is to act like she never said it and keep going, whereas walking away is answer to LJBF.
Thank God I figured this out when I was 18 or so.
I’ve had, one, perhaps two, LJBFs but I could tell they were rejections, so I set my attentions elsewhere. Now, I was beta as beta could be, but damn, It really pisses me off that guys will actually *accept* an LJBF. It’s fine to accept it if the girl is in your social circle and you have casual contact with… her, but one-on-one time? Hell no.
Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will get the hamster spinning. One should not be beta who kisses her ass. Even when you are friends with a girl, you should… Read more »
This. “If I’m not fucking you now, fucking you soon, or using you to fuck other girls, you’re useless to me.” and this. “Man can be friends with a woman…but it has to be on his terms. Having female friends helps build a social circle, and gives you social proof. They will even cook food for you, and find girls for you. You have pre-selection and social proof. They like doing these things for you, even if you are not banging them. Because of the comfort level, you can flirt with them in front of your date, and it will… Read more »
I agree completely. One of the most powerful and influential friendships I’ve ever had was with a brilliant man who I had a good deal of respect for who essentially help transform the way I viewed the world completely. He challenged me mentally and emotionally and his work continues to effect my life on a day to day basis as I refuse to be complacent and continue to seek personal and intellectual growth. In short, he changed my life for the better and I often say that I really can’t imagine how my life would have been had I not… Read more »
Woman: “I think of you as a big brother.”
Translation: “I’d consider sex with you to be incest.”
I wasn’t sorry to see him go honestly, our time together was well-spent and I gained and grew so much from it. To this day, I think of him fondly. Every guy should read liveiseasy’s post, and then read this quoted section again. And again. And again, until he truly understands just how selfish a woman can be and still think highly of herself. She benefited from him, despite knowing what he wanted and that she was never going to give it to him, and continued to string him along until he finally got sick of being used and left.… Read more »
Let’s not be so myopic, Black Cat. Yes loveiseasy had a selfish interest in her friendship with this chump. But we all have friendships for reasons that are ultimately selfish. The chump’s selfish interest was the hope/anticipation of boinking her. And while he was too dense to see that it wasn’t going to happen at the time – and while 2.5 years is an excruciating length of time to witness anyone getting strung along like that – the best takeaway for him from this “friendship” should have been a lesson that the proper response to an LJBF is to cut… Read more »
[…] you’re operating in her frame. Are you in the ‘friend-zone’ or did you accept an LJBF rejection? You’re in her […]
One of the more gut-punching experiences of my life has been the preemptive LJBF, before the man has actually made any overt moves and often when I am not particularly interested in the woman in the first place. It always mindfucks me as to whether I am really not in control of the signals I am sending or if she just has a hair trigger paranoia that everyone is hitting on her (or feels the need to reject men to feel like she has options).
[…] is a very common dynamic for women when a Man outright refuses an LJBF rejection, or he ‘goes dark’ on her with a No Contact cutoff. From a behavioral perspective, […]
[…] their brother (i.e. she’ll consider sex with you to be incest) or worse still, one of their girlfriends. If this happens your odds with hooking up with any of them is greatly […]
This was a great post, I like learning from my mistakes. Thanks.
[…] up, why he’s not getting dates (or 2nd dates if he is), why he’s constantly getting LJBF rejections, etc., and the flaws in what is really ego-investments and conditioned internalizations. As […]
[…] Playing Friends […]
[…] LBJF (lets just be friends) – http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/playing-friends/ […]
I really feel like Neo in the Matrix. I am now on the jump scene “no problem…. free my mind… freee my mindd….”
[…] it kind of depends on the individual, but to varying degrees I’d think no. As I stated in Playing Friends, the LJBF rejection has been so provably time-tested that it’s entered into a standardized […]
[…] a rapist don’t it. Well.. except when you, i dunno.. get married. I’ve been told that if you’re not fucking, you’re just friends. But what do i know. Granted, that doesn’t mean that your obligation is right here, right […]
My first girlfriend broke up with my by saying LJBF when we were 14. I found out right away that LJBF is a lie.
Over the years, I’ve heard LJBF more than a few times and always walked away from the girl because I simply didn’t want to be friends with her. Girls told me over and over that such a move was mean and that I should a take the LJBF offer at face value. Oh well.
To follow up on BlackCat re loveiseasy, and drawing on Neecy’s point on reciprocation as the golden standard, I’m curious, how many LJBF acceptances result in a genuine reciprocal friendship?
In other words, how many of these girls give as a real friend and not just take?
My experience as the sucker/chump who accepts the LJBF offer is she was insincere, the offer was a formality, and she avoids me thereafter. Or, she’s willing to continue taking benefit from our relationship, but unwilling or at least reluctant to give (non-sexual) benefit in kind to me.
[…] The idea that a woman only sees a particular man as a “friend”. We know this is only playing friends. On the female side we see women with the “complete” guy, but still not interested. […]
“Every guy should read liveiseasy’s post, and then read this quoted section again. And again. And again, until he truly understands just how selfish a woman can be and still think highly of herself.” BlackCat I might have written your post word-for-word. I felt sick to my stomach when I read her post. She is garbage that considers herself awesome. Men need to understand that when a woman offers him “friendship”, it is literally the least friendly thing she can ever do to you. They also need to understand that deep down inside, SHE KNOWS THIS. Walk away, and never… Read more »
I love looking through a post that can make men and women think.
Also, thank you for allowing me to comment!
[…] http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/19/playing-friends/ […]
[…] Re: Getting things off my chest. Coping skills? Vandal, it's not okay to be friend-zoned by your wife. Why would you consider that? It's a rejection, Hoss. Not an offer of friendship….. […]
Rollo and Co. Perhaps you guys can give me some solid advice. First off, thanks for opening my eyes. Back in September, a girl LJBF’d me and I was thinking i was cool by saying, “sure, i’ll be your friend.” This was a stupid mistake. I want to just be done with her and move on, but she’s constantly wanting to hang out and such. I think she legitimately wants to be my friend. We’ll go rock climbing, grab food and shoot the shit. She’s a cool person. However, I hate the cognitive backlash I suffer whenever my emotional centers… Read more »
It’s a lopsided transaction. She gets your attention and feels, you feel manipulated and used.
Ignore a few texts, create some distance, etc. It’s time for her to add some value. If she doesn’t fuck you or help you get laid by offering her up her friends, then it’s a waste of time and you shouldn’t feel bad about ignoring her. If she doesn’t come around, express interest in her friends. If she still doesn’t come around, disengage.
A real friend would consider your needs.
[…] in the past about the utility LJBF rejections mean to women, men’s Beta Game tactics of Playing Friends in the hopes of qualifying for a woman’s intimacy at a later date, and how men and women […]
I just got LJBF’d today. I saw it coming. For the months up to now after finding this blog I was still talking to this girl I’ve been friends with for close to 10 years. I’ve always had a thing for her. I was trying to game her for months and see if I could spark any interest and get her to see me as more than a friend. I thought I was having some success but now I think I was just using what I thought was Game to delude myself into thinking it was really working — and… Read more »
Softek, may I use your story for a post?
[…] the MGTOW observations of “Male Harems,” it’s just the functional destination of being in “the friend zone.” From either perspective, the point is clear: you are being used in order for a woman to keep […]
My preferred response to LJBF is to put my arm around her shoulder, pull her inward, look her in the eyes, and say, “Friendship is all that I want.” Then I put my hand on the back of her neck and go in for the kiss. If she accepts the kiss, I gaze in her eyes and say, “I’m a special kind of a friend.” Then I go full-caveman with it. If she resists the caveman, I take a step back and lay some more groundwork. If she denies the kiss, I smile, say “I don’t give second chances,” and… Read more »
I should expand on that further.
When she says LJBF, I’ll feign beta-ness, nodding like a sad puppy. Then, after some moments of silence, I go in for a hug. Naturally she complies.
Then I pile on the Alpha.
[…] was kind of surprised at getting a LJBF since it hadn’t happened to me for years by then, but all it took was right place, right […]
When I was 18, I said this to myself: “Better to ask and get the answer you don’t want than wait a long time and get it anyway after agonizing over it.” Softek’s story is a warning to us all. Saturday I am meeting someone for an “English speaking date.” (it’s Japan) Second meeting, no biggie as I have a date before that too and I just prefer to eat with company. She said “I am not interested in a boyfriend right now” before our first date, no worries as I am really just using her for companionship during meals… Read more »
[…] have a similar story to Cail’s. When I was a senior in high school I had a ‘friend‘ named Reneé, she was a gorgeous auburn-red head with a fantastic 17-18 year old body. We […]
I wish I knew this as a teenager, or young man.
This is a message that needs to be sent out by men to young men, by their fathers, and reinforced through “man finishing school” – where men can have mentors that will tell them the pitfalls of relationships.
[…] the reasons for your predispositions towards a Savior Schema, feminine identifying, why a LJBF is a rejection, why Beta Game comes naturally to men but is self defeating, or why SMV accrues and […]
[…] lui arriver. Mais évidement, il ne faut pas que les hommes soient conscient de cette réalité; ils doivent passer leur temps à combler les besoins psychologiques des femmes, plutôt que d’améliorer leur pouvoir de séduction (et de domination) en s’améliorant […]
I don’t understand whether you are advocating having the last word with an express beta hidden “butthurt” response, “No, I have enough friends and I need a woman,” thereby burning bridges. ??? Isn’t it better to get the last laugh (and maintain hope) by NOT expressly rejecting the friendship offer, but then go radio silent and literally never respond to her even for months until she’s sent at least 3 texts really trying to get you back in her life? Like I have a LJBF situation right now where the girl does not know much about me at all (does… Read more »
keep reading: http://therationalmale.com/2012/11/29/friends-like-these/
I will translate Loveiseasy’s womanly post:
“me me I me I I I I me I I I benefitted me me me I me me I.”
Softek’s post is the most beta I’ve read on the internet in a long time. I know it’s old, but dude, that dude had a lot of work to do at the time he made that comment. No dude you don’t “put yourself out there” by professing your puppy love to her in words — you literally physically kiss her and attempt to make a move and either get rejected or not. No woman ever agrees in advance, using words, to “love you like that,” especially after you were her beta puppy dog for 10 years!!!! You don’t negotiate physical… Read more »
[…] parcial y reinterpretación del artículo: “Playing Friends” escrito por Rollo Tomassi para The Rational […]
I was sitting across from this girl at a table outside a bar, talking, and she was just about to LJBF me, but I stopped her mid-sentence, took out my phone, and said “wait a minute, hold that thought”. I requested an UBER and the app notified it’d be there to collect me in 3 minutes. So I let her hang for the 3 minutes, as if I was doing something important on my phone, and then just before my pickup arrived, I said “go on” she gave me her LJBF line, I looked at her playfully, and chuckled, then… Read more »
[…] Ultimately, it lead many men to ask bigger picture questions. Why did they need to develop game in the first place? If they had a good job, were loyal providers, and were emotionally available, why weren’t women sexually attracted to them? […]
Very insightful. I think the more pressing question would be: how do I become a guy that is not thought of as being one to be friendzoned? What are friendzone proof plays or friendzone proof patterns?
Double X – are you offering sex or are you offering friendship?
Gents of the Red Pill. Pro advice needed. Although I consider myself Alpha, I got my first LJBF in over 13 years 4 days ago (this demonstrates that we are not immune to mistakes). I’ll do my best to summarize the story. Met this Arab Muslim girl online who is born and raised in Canada. We chatted for some time and she really liked me and I liked her. Went to see her end of July (about 1.5 months ago-I live in another city). I had just broke up with my Russian X-girlfriend (who I totally dominated). First encounter was… Read more »
“she is an Alpha chick (who is emotionally cold by the way)”
Moody, she already classified you. 4 day no contact, LJBF, etc. She’s moved on to bigger and better dicks. This is not worth your investment unless you want to spend your life extracting love from a cold person. Move on.
[…] actuando bajo su relato. ¿Te sentís en ‘Amigolandia’ o aceptaste los términos para sólo ser amigos? Estas en su […]
Rollo, are you suggesting verbally accepting her friendship offer (so as to comply with society’s rules), then withdrawing interest completely in the case of an LJBF rejection?
So lets sum this up, if a guy rejects the LJBF from a girl, you’ve pointed out that this makes him a ‘dickhead’ I disagree and agree with this statement, because it depends on how the other carried it out. I don’t know why guys a labelled as dickheads to be honest if they reject the friendzone. It could be that the man was friends with the girl before and ended up liking her and she rejected him with “lets just be friends” well that’s a nice way of saying no lets be honest. so what would you rather do?… Read more »
[…] (Enlace al original en Ingles) […]
[…] If you are ‘friend zoned’ man, women believe that you are the equivalent of one of their girlfriends. You can’t negotiate attraction. Stop wasting your time. It’s the harsh truth. […]
God dude this post is out of date….girls level up fast man, really fast…the go to phrase they use nowadays is “I have a boyfriend” or simply “I’m in a relationship” – when I would suspect maybe 1 out of 10 girls that say that are in an actual committed relationship. The shit girls use varies week to week if not day to day to test men, they constantly are pushing men into corners. The last strong hold women has is the actual state – police stepping in because a girl has no other way to tell a guy off.… Read more »
I think you’re right in general, but I wonder which way might be the best approach to escape the friendzone in which cases. @Rollo I think your idea is nice, I truly do, but I’m whondering if the suggestions of @anon and @Otter Barnes may no be better in may case. Here the two ideas: @Otter Barnes “My preferred response to LJBF is to put my arm around her shoulder, pull her inward, look her in the eyes, and say, “Friendship is all that I want.” Then I put my hand on the back of her neck and go in… Read more »
I want to add, that I’d appreciate any advice given until Sunday very much
May there be any chance to seduce a woman that tried to friendzone us when the friendzone was rejected?
I mean, in case, she walks in my life again some years later (because she won’t get a response more earlier).
Repost that to Field Reports for advice.
I have a question regarding this: what about women that might be using this as a means to filter out “players”? Let’s say you haven’t even asked her out, but you somehow mention implicitly that you’re interested in her, e.g. her woman friend tells her about you, that you asked about her etc. Can we have a different type of LJBFs? I surely don’t have oneitis, but something similar happened to me and I’m trying to improve so that I don’t miss opportunities, because I rejected the girl right off, but I do know she’s having difficulties recovering from a… Read more »
Is this Wondering under a different name?
Look. ALL that matters is you and her in the here and now. Past doesn’t really matter. Girls live in the emotions of the moment.
Focus on the moment and leading it to where you want to go.
No, I recently started reading this blog and it blew my mind, have no idea who that guy is, but you still didn’t answer my question, can we differentiate between different types of LJBF offers, or is that the general advice in all cases? For example, let’s say another girl says LJBF in text, I reject her, but the next time we meet she acts flirty/is deressed super hot etc. My note here is that this ideology is great, but the fact that sometimes you might be missing opportunities is not considered, and I’m especially interested in how do you… Read more »
Tonny K. For example, let’s say another girl says LJBF in text, I reject her, but the next time we meet she acts flirty/is deressed super hot etc. Maybe she’s ovulating that day. Maybe she had a fight with her boyfriend. Maybe, maybe, maybe. What is it that you want? My note here is that this ideology is great, This is a praxology, not an ideology. You need to get that straight. but the fact that sometimes you might be missing opportunities is not considered, and I’m especially interested in how do you guys determine when your rejection to the… Read more »
[…] Playing Friends […]
I have only first heard of this red pill blue pill psychobabble in 2020, and it’s the first time reading about Rollo Tomassi, but what the dude’s saying is striking an agreeable chord with me, and 80% of my default behavior and thought processes have been along the same lines for awhile anyway Case in point, I came across a dating subreddit the topic was “at what stage of dating to ask what are you looking for”. Someone said “prior to the date” to which i commented with my own example of 6 lines of dialogue: She: I am looking… Read more »
[…] is why women love to keep a large number of Beta orbiters in the Friend Zone – men whom they have absolutely no interest in romantically. It’s for the attention and […]