Rites of Passage

aboriginal-passage

In the past I’ve discussed the hesitancy of young men to refer to themselves as ‘men’ or to really even embrace what might be considered a ‘conventional’ idea of masculinity. You’ve probably read me using that word before. I use the word conventional because I feel it conveys a better understanding of a naturalized expression of masculinity in a way that men evolved into. Occasionally I have a reader ask me why I don’t use the term ‘traditional’ with respect to masculinity, but I’m not sure they really mean the same thing.

It’s easy to think of masculinity in terms of tradition, but whose tradition are we really referring to? ‘Traditional Masculinity’ as a term has assumed a derogatory meaning in a feminine-primary social order. It’s become one of those catch-terms that we’re all supposed to understand as being characteristic of backward mindsets. It’s part of the social convention that seeks to ridicule, shame and confuse boys who later become men about what masculinity ought to mean to them. So, it’s for this reason I use the word ‘conventional’. It conveys the idea that masculinity in a binary sense has evolved aspects that are inherent and unique to men. So while certain cultures may have had different traditions and traditional roles for men, there is a unifying conventionality of masculinity that relates to all men and maleness in general.

Feminine-centrism doesn’t like this idea. It doesn’t like the idea that masculine characteristics or behaviors are the sole propriety of men. The reflex then is to paint any conventionally masculine attribute, way of thinking, aggression, passion or aspiration as either representative of ‘toxic’ harmful or anti-social, or, depending on its usefulness in securing power, it’s cast as something “not necessarily masculine” since some women can lay claim to that trait.

In several prior posts I’ve outlined how boys are taught from a very early age to gender-loathe their maleness. It’s part of Blue Pill conditioning, but more so, I think it’s important for Blue Pill or unplugging adult men to understand the mechanics and reasoning behind why it’s in the Feminine Imperative’s interests to keep conventional masculinity something ambiguous, arbitrary or something men ought to be able to fluidly define for themselves. That last part there is important, because what most men think is their own self-definition of masculinity is always founded in what the Feminine Imperative has conditioned him to believe is correct.

Latent Purposes

In a social order that’s ostensibly founded upon a baseline equalism (in principle) among men and women we have to look at why it might be necessary for boys to be taught that ‘traditional’ masculinity is toxic. The easy answer is a want for control, but not so much in the terms of convincing boys to become men who will loathe their maleness. Remember, there’s a lot of conventional masculinity that is conveniently useful to further the interests of women and Hypergamy – but the conditioning becomes one of selectively classifying the useful aspects as ‘healthy’ and the non-useful ones as ‘toxic’.

The most important thing to consider here is that, for future men, equalism’s purpose in their upbringing is to prevent them from ever internalizing the idea that they should be their own mental point of origin. This I think is one of the fundamental issues most Blue Pill men struggle with in their own unplugging.

One of the old books, traditional, understandings is that men, by virtue of being male, can expect a degree of authority in their lives and in their families. A man may not be the boss at work, but the traditional understanding was that he could expect to be the head of household in his own home. Feminine primacy, under the auspices of equalism, has effectively conditioned this idea out of men over the course of generations. If men and women are blank-slate functional equals, ideally, there will never be a default authority in an intersexual relationship.

From a conventional, evolutionary perspective we know this baseline equalism is not just false, but we also understand that it serves as a control over the masculine nature men are born into. Men and women are different; cognitively, neurologically, biologically and psychologically, but our socialized presumptions with regard to how boys are raised to be men deliberately conditions them to believe we are the same – or at least functionally so.

The Crime of Being Male

There’s been some pushback to this in our Red Pill awakening, and not all of it is the result of the manosphere. As Hypergamy becomes more openly embraced in a larger social respect, more men are made aware of their deliberate conditioning to accommodate it. What they choose to do with that awareness is up to them, but the response from the Feminine Imperative to this awareness is to criminalize or make toxic the embrace of conventional masculinity on the part of men. It becomes a hate-crime to express any conventionally male attribute.

This is a potential danger for Blue Pill men in that the expressions of maleness that they display are on one hand desired by women, but also a risk to their reputation or livelihood if that expression is offensive to women. Red Pill aware men may have the advantage of knowing women’s nature well enough to mitigate the risks, but Blue Pill men will be stuck in a paradigm that puts them at risk for wanting to be men.

Again, equalist Blue Pill conditioning’s purpose is to prevent men from assuming themselves as their mental point of origin, but once a man’s disabused himself of putting the feminine as his primary internal concern there must be an opposite, contingent, reaction on the part of the Feminine Imperative to put him back into compliance. Thus, we see the criminalization of maleness.

Pedestals

For some time it’s been a manosphere staple to tell guys to take the girl off the pedestal if he wants to be successful with women. We call it pedestalization, but one reason that dynamic, to put a woman on a higher order than oneself, is so pervasive in men is due exactly to this “equalist” conditioning. The internalization is one of making that girl, that woman, the centerpiece of a man’s headspace. This becomes who he is and it’s the result of a childhood that taught him he must place the concerns of girls above his own on many different psychological levels.

Once that guy becomes Red Pill aware, no matter who does his unplugging, not only does he remove girls from the pedestal personally, but also on a larger sociological scope. And this scope is what the Feminine Imperative must pushback against.

Blue Pill conditioning teaches boys/men to cast doubt on their own masculinity. What constitutes masculinity? Is it a mask or a performance they put on? Is it something to be proud of or some problem to keep in check? Should boys/men feel insecure or secure about it? These are the consistent ambiguities the Feminine Imperative wants to invest into the next generations of men because it keeps women on the pedestal. Only women possess the solution to their problem of maleness.

But the Blue Pill also conditions boys/men to never presume to consider themselves as a “man”. The joke is that men are never really men, but rather they become ‘bigger boys’. This is a social convention that attempts to keep men in a juvenilized state and thus ensuring women are the only ‘adults’ to make the judgement call. This ridicule has the purpose of denying men their status of ‘manhood’. If men are perpetual boys, they can never assume the default ‘headship’ of being men. It is a control for authority.

This is another reason men are conditioned to keep women on the pedestal; only women can confirm ‘manhood’ from a superior (mental) position in that man’s mind. When a woman is at the top of a man’s mental point of origin – and not even a specific woman, but womankind – she decides his status of being a man. So it follows that men ought to internalize the doubt of understanding manhood or conventional masculinity.

So, the struggle men have in coming to a Red Pill awareness is one of removing women from this pedestal, but also one of giving oneself permission to be a man. This may seem kind of simplistic, but to a guy who’s been conditioned to put women before himself in his own internal, mental, conversations it’s a very tough challenge. Blue Pill conditioning invests a doubt into boys and then men. They are conditioned to self-regulate on many levels, but to generally put their own concerns beneath those of others and largely the feminine. They are taught to self-sublimate by never giving themselves permission to be “men” in a conventional sense.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9

Never Self-Deprecate under any circumstance. This is a Kiss of Death that you self-initiate and is the antithesis of the Prize Mentality. Once you’ve accepted yourself and presented yourself as a “complete douche” there’s no going back to confidence with a woman. Never appeal to a woman’s sympathies. Her sympathies are given by her own volition, never when they are begged for – women despise the obligation of sympathy. Nothing kills arousal like pity. Even if you don’t seriously consider yourself pathetic, it never serves your best interest to paint yourself as pathetic. Self-Depreciation is a misguided tool for the AFC, and not something that would even occur to an Alpha.

One important reason I made this an Iron Rule was because it’s almost a default response of men to presume their own ridiculousness. The reflexive response is of course to not take yourself so seriously and have an ability to laugh at yourself when it’s merited. That’s all fine and well, a necessity for a healthy sense of self, but few men realize their ease with self-deprecation is a result of their conditioning to find themselves ridiculous as men. “Men” are ridiculous.

It’s very easy for Red Pill aware men to lose sight of what the Blue Pill conditions men for and how this conditioning has evolved over the course of generations. The latent purpose remains the same (preventing men from adopting their own mental point of origin), but the methods and social mores change fluidly with what the Feminine Imperative finds most efficient for the time. For the past 20 years there’s been a concentrated effort to remove men from deciding their own manhood for themselves.

Rites of Passage

From Remove the Man:

Guys vs. Men

I was participating in a conversation just recently with a young woman of 26 and a young man of 18. The conversation itself wasn’t important, but at one point the young man referred to himself as a ‘Man’. He said something to the effect of, “Well I’m a man, and men do,..” At the word ‘man’ she cut him off with the unconscious snigger that’s resulted from years of feminine ridicule conditioning. Just the mention of a man self-referencing as a “man” is enough to inspire feminine ridicule. It’s laughable for a man to consider himself a man.

This exchange got me to wondering about the turning point at which I began to self-reference as a “Man”. In the face of a constant conditioned ridicule, it’s almost an uncomfortable recognition to distinguish yourself as a Man. It’s too easy to just think of yourself as a ‘guy’ and never be so presumptuous as to insist upon your manhood. In girl-world, to claim to be a Man is to admit to arrogance – it’s to embrace a flawed nature.

It’s important to note here that in embracing your status as a Man, instead of ‘just a guy’, you are passing a meta-shit test. By embracing self-referenced manhood, you are rejecting what a world aligned against you would like you to believe about yourself. You’re endorsing yourself as a Man with self-assurance despite the self-doubt the Feminine Imperative relies upon men believing about themselves, masculinity and the dubious state of manhood as a whole. By flagrantly referring to yourself as a Man you are passing the meta-shit test – you’re overtly stating you’re a Man, but you you’re covertly stating “I Just Get It.”

One of the key elements to unplugging is changing your mind about yourself. This is one of the biggest obstacle to guys coming to accept a Red Pill aware reality. This self-denial of their own ‘manhood’, which becomes a resistance to embracing anything conventionally masculine as being positive, is a foreign thought.

As I mentioned in that post, there used to be a time when boys would go through some rite of passage and be considered a ‘man’ by his family and peers. It’s important for Red Pill men to realize how this passage into a state of manhood has been deliberately confused or shamed out of significance to all but the most traditional of cultures.

Most male rites of passage are painted as cruel and barbaric hazing rituals in a fem-centric society. That’s a popularized and easy connection to make, but what underlies this effort to disqualify manhood as legitimate is a push to force men into compliance with the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primacy.

I would suggest that men coming into a Red Pill awareness need to embrace being a “man”. Red Pill men need a rite of passage of some sort. Sometimes we ask about when a guy finally came into his Red Pill awareness. We compare stories about what we were like when we were still living in a Blue Pill paradigm and then what form of trauma (or not) triggered that Blue Pill disillusionment. We discuss going through the various stages of grief for our past Blue Pill idealism, the nihilism, the anger, the disbelief, then the acceptance and the new enthusiasm of being Red Pill aware and the potential that means.

But there needs to be a rite of passage for passing from that Blue Pill state to a new Red pill awareness and part of this should be a conscious acknowledgement of  giving yourself permission to be a man. This needs to be part of changing your mind about yourself as you become more aware of the agency you really have in a conventionally male respect. You need a point at which you set yourself apart from Blue Pill men and a feminine-primary social order.

Most (Beta) guys have a difficult time embracing the authority and due deference that being a conventional man should convey to him. They are uncomfortable on an ego-personality level with accepting this dominant male role because it goes against everything their feminine-centric upbringing has taught them to internalize.

However, with that authority comes responsibility. I would argue that many a Blue Pill guy is comforted by the lies of equalism because he believes that egalitarianism and the expectations that men and women are functional equals in some way exempts him from his uniquely male burden of performance. On some level of consciousness, even the Beta men who are comforted by equalism still realize that their maleness, their ‘secure’ masculinity, will only ever be merited and judged by his performance. And that performance is firmly grounded in conventionally male tests.

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

….gee. I hope mersonia doesn’t mind my mental masturbation.

warriorhun
warriorhun
5 years ago

After you fucked the first girl with red-pill knowledge, you should consider yourself a man.

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@RichardP, brilliant posts December 6th. We need more commentators like yourself in the manosphere.

Fred Flange, Xisself
Fred Flange, Xisself
5 years ago

@Blax One more time for you since you speak of something I know LOTS about though I wish I didn’t (Prostate cancer). LISSEN UP DOODZ. No you probably didn’t have a tumor if the MRI didn’t show it, so your call was a proper call at the time. To be sure a biopsy might be advisable when you hit 50 or so. They shoot a needle into 12 specific sections of the prostate to look for naughty bits. Usually they find scars, screws, nuts, bolts, tire irons. The thing is more a bother than a threat BUT you can have… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Blax

….gee. I hope mersonia doesn’t mind my mental masturbation.

Just keep those mental ejaculations to yourself.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@grain

Yet you’re the one been talking about sucking dick for days now ASD

And now I’ve got you doing it. heh

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@hun

After you fucked the first girl with red-pill knowledge, you should consider yourself a man.

Can I count my wife or do I have to find some other girl?

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Eh “…Honda CB 360..” I think that was the bike of choice back in my teens/twenties (circa 1976). I’ve always wanted a bike like that (I’m 57 now) and consider myself too interested in self-preservation to dare. One of those mid-life crisis things at my age I guess. But I’m not a chickenshit, having spent my 20’s/30’s on the sharp end of a rockclimbing rope and roadbiking in a major Canadian city… I just feel surviving motorcycling is an intuitive skill you pick you when you’re young and fresh and when your brain is firing on all cylinders (or not,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Cattaro ” One question not conected with on going dialog…I have a friend who was in situation to must cut one testis (tumor). He already have 2 kids, mixed alpha beta behavior, good shape…etc. But he told me that he got an analise with minimum chance to have kids again in his life. Is it a big atraction down to his wife and women in generaly.” As Blaximus said, each case is unique. Those tumors do not go away on their own and will get worse, eventually spreading to other parts of the body… so this is not a real… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Fred Flange In 3 D
The bad news: 80% of men will get prostate cancer

Eh, I challenge that statistic. Where did you get it from?

This site says there’s a 1 in 7 chance lifetime of developing CaP.
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancerbasics/lifetime-probability-of-developing-or-dying-from-cancer

There are risk factors that can increase odds and other things, like regular use of curcumin that decrease odds. Apoptosis can be my friend.

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@Fred

“Now go wear your pink booby ribbons for the girls, you pussies. (we don’ts gets any ribbons but more of us snuff it than breast cancer patients)”

I’d wear a poppy before I’d ever wear any of those.

Fred Flange, Xisself
Fred Flange, Xisself
5 years ago

@DisEarth I refer t he honorable gentleman to the reply I gave some moments ago. My source is three urologists, one of whom is a big mover and shaker in the IMRT/SBRT therapy protocol. (To give names here would risk a locate and DOXX of me, but I can supply names. Google the therapies and look for practitioners names in the northeast). Your chart isn’t wrong – it deals with risk of death in %. I’m not saying getting it kills you. Quite the opposite actually. What I’m told is 80% of men get it, but when they do it’s… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Fred Flange Your chart isn’t wrong – it deals with risk of death in %. Look again, one column is “probablity of developing it” and the other columns have to do with probability of death. P(death) = 1/49 according to that table. Could be low, could be high, but it’s not the same as P(CaP) = 1/7 by inspection. What I’m told is 80% of men get it Understood. But I’m asking how you / they know that. “Everyone knows” or “common knowledge” is not an answer. Used to be “everyone knew” that bacteria could not live in stomach acid,… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
5 years ago

Great post Rollo.

Sad thing is rights of passage require two things, an active older participant demonstrating expertise and encouraging mastery and a same aged group dynamic where hazing, fighting and degredation is overcome to prove your metal.

These things are missing today and most boys will not go through it, with the internet culture, social isolation and men being wary of being around boys.

SFC Ton
5 years ago

You will get this shit together one day Softek, I ain’t going to bet against you so don’t bet against yourself …. and when you do get this down, you’ll be pissed at yourself for over complicating things.

It’s the nature of things, so be easy and keep pushing

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Fred Flange ” No you probably didn’t have a tumor if the MRI didn’t show it, so your call was a proper call at the time. To be sure a biopsy might be advisable when you hit 50 or so. They shoot a needle into 12 specific sections of the prostate to look for naughty bits. Usually they find scars, screws, nuts, bolts, tire irons. The thing is more a bother than a threat BUT you can have consequences afterward where things swell up and get blocked for a few days, oog. Really that’s the worst part if it… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ AR

I’m revisiting the iron thing. I know you’ve spoken about it before, and I think kfg chimed in also.

I get bloodwork every 3-4 months ( as long as insurance holds out..) and I’m gonna add iron to the list.

SFC Ton
5 years ago

I 7se to embrace the two motorcycle lifestyle. Never know when you bike will be in the shop and who the hell wants to miss out riding? But then I learned the error of my ways. 2 motorcycles is not sufficient. You need a bagger for cruising, you need a chopper, all raked out with apes, you need a bobber, you need a bar hopper, you need an old bike done up right, need a rat bike, you need one with a sidecar, you need one that is basically stock for when it’s raining and your souped engines create to… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Fred Flange, medical commenter

My source is three urologists

I bet one of them is big and meaty and someone to consult about whether streets will be icy. Surely you’ve heard of a meaty urologist.

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
5 years ago

Ton,

You need one for when the pavement runs out where I live. Slap on a steering damper – I don’t even move my right wrist when the gravel starts. The faster you go, the smoother the ride.

Truth on old man riders. Knew of one that finally got off his machine at 80. Changed it for a trike, kept on going.

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

Blax
I’ve linked before to P D Mangan on Iron. Never looked at any papers or such, be he seems pretty convinced Iron is a big factor in aging and cell health.

http://roguehealthandfitness.com/?s=Iron

Looks like he has a whole book on it, Dumping Iron.

Glad to hear your health’s in order. My pops had prostate cancer last summer, surgically removed, no complications.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ othergrain

Thanks man, and good to hear positives about your dad.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Ton:
So is it even possible to have too many bikes?

stuffinbox
5 years ago

This post and you guys bring to many things to mind and memory to put down a tldr or bore the shit outa somebody.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

PSA is a pretty crummy test in terms of false positives*, and rare but bad false negatives. But it is what we have and it doesn’t cost much. The trend is more useful than a single data point, as with a lot of processes. *There are multiple reasons for an elevated PSA. Riding a motorcycle or a bicycle just before the blood draw can have an effect. Inflammation can be a big factor, with multiple causes possible. PCA-3 costs more but provides more accurate information. There are some newer tests that provide even more info and cost even more. What’s… Read more »

Johnycomelately
Johnycomelately
5 years ago

Just a heads up to the prostate talk.

Friend in his 60s went through prostate cancer and overcame it (great story, somehow scammed the banks of 70k offering online credit card, anyways).

He attributes his success to organic coffee enemas (apparently coffee tannins are good iron chelators), large doses of circumin (his steering wheel went orange as it was seeping out his pores) and fermented foods.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Softek: “No culture I’m aware of has these rituals at 27 or 30 or 40 years old . . .” KFG: “There been discussed here many small “rites of passage,” which are perfectly valid and might occur at various ages, but the idea of “rite of passage” that’s relevant is the right of passage, from boyhood to manhood. To being overtly accepted as a peer by men. That happens at around age 16. Might be a little earlier, only rarely a little later.” Yeah, there is the little man, into manhood at around age 16. It is something as a… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Chapter 35 from The Way of The Superior Man. Embrace your dark side as a man to understand how to break through a right of red pill passage, but also understand what women do (red pill wise) in order to operate if you don’t break Blue Pill shackles and keep up your Burden of Performance. Women will fill the vacuum you leave. Don’t leave a vacuum. Fight to hit a home run. You Are Always Searching for Freedom The essential masculine ecstasy is in the moment of release from constraint. This could occur when facing death and living through it,… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

National service was a right of passage for all men at one time. Although many opposed it, not least the recruits themselves. The cost incurred by the armed forces, for men who more than likely would never serve, spelt the end of that regime. A rite of passage would instil in us some sense of male identity and a common bond. But as was pointed out in the ‘Blue Alpha’ essay, a man can display every outwardly, defined alpha metric and still submit to his partner in the most supplicating way, imaginable. For me, the problem has always been limiting… Read more »

SFC Ton
5 years ago

I’ve been through more rites of passage then the most of men. The more formal and typical ones that apply to most kids, rural, suburban and urban, like making various sports teams; the more informal/ familia ones that go hand in hand with the traditional rural South like fighting, drinking, hunting, killing live stock and brutal labor of old school farm work and the formally codified rites of passage that come with military life, especially 6 years of being semi- special and 6 years of being extra special. This only i can judge me stuff is weak sauce. I am… Read more »

SFC Ton
5 years ago

When I go off road these days I am in a truck, with fishing gear, Ton Spawn and my Lady Pit.

I grew up on dirt bikes but don’t see myself returning to them.

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

National service was a right of passage for all men at one time. Although many opposed it, not least the recruits themselves. The cost incurred by the armed forces, for men who more than likely would never serve, spelt the end of that regime. A rite of passage would instil in us some sense of male identity and a common bond. But as was pointed out in the ‘Blue Alpha’ essay, a man can display every outwardly, defined alpha metric and still submit to his partner in the most supplicating way, imaginable. For me, the problem has always been limiting… Read more »

stuffinbox
5 years ago

A man with no mission has no purpose or direction. The mission can be anything,it may start out as going fishing,planning collecting the gear developing a strategy and carrying out the plan to the end of cleanup caring for the gear and reorganising for the next time. As these smaller missions are completed,education occurs along the way,then the plans keep expanding,the mission scope grows so does the responsibility. Each success builds confidence overcoming doubts and fears. Turn the young man loose on the mission that has been clearly defined,only correct him on unsafe practice,find the object he desires and you… Read more »

stuffinbox
5 years ago

Life is punctuated by fuckups,these are the memorable times that everybody has.

You show me a man that hasn’t made a mistake,I’ll show you a man that has no initiative and has never done anything.

Everyone makes mistakes,it is how we deal with it and fix things that separates the men from the boys.

A failure to plan is a sure plan to fail,but shit happens then we must improvise this is authenticity.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

I remember rites of passage as a teen long, long ago–1) getting liquor by asking someone of age to get them for you and 2) getting condoms by asking the pharmacist for them, where it was a very real possibility that he would 1) laugh at you and 2) deny you the sale. You couldn’t get condoms off of a grocery shelf back then.

stuffinbox
5 years ago

While just having initiative and authenticity is enough to be recognized as being your own man,these together must provide the desired results consistently to be recognized as an asset.

The debriefing or after action review are great tools for learning critical thinking.
Of course there does have to be action first and foremost.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“What’s the data worth to you? Depends on your situation.” Oh yeah… Medicine is driven IMO by a few major factors: compliance to regulating bodies (CMS), litigation risk, best practices (a.k.a: consensus at the time). A combination of above gets patients in the door, diagnosed, treated, and charged in a preferred corporate method ensuring maximum income capture, minimum cost in time and supplies. Fealty to algorithmic medicine creates a “in the matrix” feel to a doctor visit. Doctor has laptop to track your symptoms and his adherence to standards. All clinic visits are timed and production quotas are enforced by… Read more »

stuffinbox
5 years ago

Rollo

Roosh is always good for a laugh.

It would seem with masculinity and what it takes to be a man being defined by the FI it has become a constant ongoing list of honeydoos,with no apparent rite of passage.

If a man cannot become his own man and defers to women he will be stuck in never ending servitude.

stuffinbox
5 years ago

Rollo the best self improvement of the day(stop watching Roosh at 1.23.What a load of shit,he is really reaching with short arms.

SFC Ton
5 years ago

Pegged Roosh as a bitter beta years ago.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@Ton – “…being judged as a man by other men….” Maybe I’m splitting hairs but I want to make the point that a man must be extra careful when letting others decide if he’s up to snuff. Input from others is important, to be sure, and we need to also factor in the motivations of those others who are judging us and weight it accordingly. For example, a boy/man can be reasonably sure that his father’s standards and enforcement of quality are truly intended for the betterment of the son and can be given more weight. But when the boss… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“If a man cannot become his own man and defers to women he will be stuck in never ending servitude.” One of the conventions of the Rite of Passage is that a boy leaves the care of the women’s circle and takes up residence in all male living quarters. Sometimes this happens as late as passing the rite, but more often than not it is done rather before that, in order that men may properly prepare the boy to undertake the rite. Proper preparation cannot be done in the presence of women, what with all their fretting about security, safety,… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Input from others is important, to be sure, and we need to also factor in the motivations of those others who are judging us and weight it accordingly.”

Judging is done by men who have themselves passed the rite and gone on to acquire social standing by merit in one of the professional guilds.

SFC Ton
5 years ago

Cage zombies…..when I need new undershorts they need a new windshield

Legit point Dr Z, wrote earlier it’s a man’s job to dominate women.

Fred Flange, Xisself
Fred Flange, Xisself
5 years ago

@AnonReader OK, fair request on where I got my 80% stat: even though we’re in a post-truth world, you want facts I got facts. I went back to check and re-found this: http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/guide/prostate-cancer-risk-factors Prostate Cancer Risk Factors All men are at risk for developing prostate cancer. About one man in six will be diagnosed with prostate cancer during his lifetime, but only one man in 36 will die of this disease. About 80 percent of men who reach age 80 have prostate cancer cells in their prostate. Besides being male, there are other factors, such as age, race, and family… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“it’s a man’s job to dominate women.”

One of the reasons for the failure of the Humvee in the civilian market is that the market demographic was got all wrong.

It turns out that it was women under 5′ 4″. Basically they were buying a strap on.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Reply to  kfg

Some refentece of the need for solitude and silence. http://www.jack-donovan.com/documents/No%20Mans%20LandPDF.pdf Nature and the ability to focus on the self not the ego. Self work is the goal it’s never attain the way you want. It’s reached by extending your effort and embracing the harsh brutal destruction of a previous version of your story. It’s you that builds than destroys. Dominance to me is something that nature is beautiful at demonstrating. You donmenatate your arena. your mind than body and than you merge into your Goal with intergration. You speak nothing but to yourself. You are the co creator of all… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

I have nothing against green, leafy vegetables. The trick is to prepare them properly. Running through a rabbit or a deer works a treat.

Despite the push in the popular media, there is no significant corollary between diet and prostate cancer. If Blaximus wishes to substantially reduce his risk factors what he needs to do is stop being a middle aged black man in North America.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol kfg.

Funny thing is, prostate issues aren’t rampant in Africa. So yeah, you are 100% correct.

When all else fails, I blame grains and HFCS.

Gotta get up off your ass literally, to save your life.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@kfg – “….The trick is to prepare them properly. Running through a rabbit or a deer…”

LaffOutPhukkinLoud, stealing this one

Though I try, many times I have trouble understanding your posts, but this and the zinger at Blax are top notch, thanks for the smiles.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . prostate issues aren’t rampant in Africa.”

Knocking a decade or four off of life expectancy will do that.

ollieoxenfree1
ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

Science fiction has always sought to portray human emotion as a weakness to be overcome. Some have gone further to express the notion of our physical being as a limiting factor. This is notably seen in 2001: A Space Odyssey. I’m aware this is fiction, but I just want to reinforce the point from my earlier post that we don’t have to be held to eternal hostage by nature. We can strive to be better. A quote from Terminator 2, sums it up admirably. T-800 to John Connor. “I now know why you cry. But it is something, I can… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Dr. Z

Over the years kfg has sent me scouring the web to get full understanding of some of his comments. I look forward to his input because there’s always a lot of” there ” there, even if it’s contained in one pithy sentence.

Iron sharpens iron indeed.

Laughing and learning is some very cool shit.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . we don’t have to be held to eternal hostage by nature.” The Buddha had to return to the laws of nature in order to avoid death by decrepitude, and only in death did he actually achieve true release from the wheel. If the string is too slack, it will not sound. But if the string is too taut, it will snap. This is a law of nature. You are not an aetherial entity of the Void. You are of and subject to the Tao and all the whining in the world will not change that. It… Read more »

newlyaloof
5 years ago

@Blaximus, get off the ass indeed:

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Intellect

re: trust your gut

Medical malpractice from the CDC…salt was bad for you for decades, but now it’s Ok to eat salt…the Bible said for millennia that salt was good, but, of course, the Bible was wrong until the CDC said that it wasn’t…I ate salt during the decades that it wasn’t and argued about it with Mrs. Gamer and Dr. daughter Gamer, both of whom have medical training…it was nice to have the CDC switch to side with me…both my women are a bit put out that that happened, lol…

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Ollie

Science fiction has always sought to portray human emotion as a weakness to be overcome.

I see human emotion as an ox to be harnessed for plowing.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ newly

Well, I do feel good.😀

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Re: Roosh’s video He’s making a common mistake in that he singularly equates goals with material ideals. Sometimes this is enough for some men, but in the larger long term, it’s not a viable way of living. Roosh has bits and pieces, but he’s unable to assemble them correctly because he’s still trying to escape and distance himself from something inside of him. That’s a sure fire route to confusion and frustration. He has to fully embrace and accept himself first – the good, the bad and the ugly, before he can make deep meaningful changes in his life. Otherwise… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ asd

This independent thinking is decreasing profitability.

Retired general surgeon: Get that apple away from me. It gives me the creeps!

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Goals, self improvement, rites of passage.

R.I.P. John Glenn. Godspeed.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Sigh… I think I have some sort of personality defect. I think a dude could cut off my arm and I wouldn’t be able to stay mad at him for more than 24 hours. lol. I love you guys. In the spirit of the Festivus season I’d like to have an airing of grievances in the hope of getting through to you numbskull old fools ONE. FINAL. TIME. Three letters E, G, O… It’s a problem. My biggest concern being here is growth. Mostly my growth, I’ll be honest, and I care about YOUR growth because it will accelerate Mine!… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

EhIntellect Speaking of gut, appendectomy is a common procedure performed often only on symptoms, with a negative scan and no observable appendix inflammation after removal…and the patient gets better. Was it the appendectomy? Well, probably…but the system will never know or knows how to find out. That’s pretty interesting. So what would happen if people with symptoms were “treated” via a fake appendectomy? All the pre-op ritual, maybe a fine cut, but nothing taken out. Would they get better? No ethical way test it. But the mind – body connection is not well understood. Seems like the lowly appendix is… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Fred Flange in 3D OK, fair request on where I got my 80% stat: even though we’re in a post-truth world, you want facts I got facts. I came up with WebMD and some other links that said about the same thing, “80% of men have by age 80” but no reference to where that comes from. It’s just “everyone knows”, yeh. Here’s the anecdote: So how do they know 80% of old cunts have it? When they do autopsies after the old cunts croak That’s reasonable, but autopsies aren’t common as they once were. I’m thinking if I dug… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Andy
I want you to accept them as they are, and let it go. I want you to focus on your own development, and let them be responsible for theirs.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Andy Sentient – Look, not sure what the deal is with you. Why do you take little nuances in arguments and try and use them to undermine the overall spirit? It’s just childish. Seriously. It’s childish to pretend there aren’t nuances… and those little things turn out to be big things over time. Perspective is an amazing thing… more is always better than less… I’ve come at these discussions with the perspective I have… from fumbling teen, to an Alpha stud, to a young married, to a father, to a slowly betaized married, to a player in the hot young… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Seems like the lowly appendix is no longer vestigal, it’s deemed to be the reservoir of good bacteria.” We eat green leafys when under environmental stress, as a matter of survival, not as a matter of our routine, natural diet.* We do not actually have our own mechanisms for digesting green leafys and rely on a proxy; feeding the greens to bacteria which break them down for us, then we absorb the waste matter of that process. Note that if cows actually lived on the grass they eat, cow shit wouldn’t make such a good fire fuel. A cow is… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHoHX7aGtIo

Insert “pussy” and your view of yourself as appropriate…

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@Andy

Lotta truth in what you wrote, no doubt, though Pellaeon’s advice mirrors my own approach, more or less.

Mining for gold involves digging and sifting through tons of worthless dirt for a crumb of value. Sure, some dudes here sure put the prick in prickly but who cares? They will never do things as you specify any more than you would for them. Focus on the gold.

“Take what you want, leave the rest.” – ??

SFC Ton
5 years ago

I have nothing against green, leafy vegetables. The trick is to prepare them properly. Running through a rabbit or a deer works a treat.
………

That wins the interwebz right there

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

1. competition to see who could wait the longest to ride his bike out onto the street in front of a big truck going approx. 50 mph and make it across 2. first real fight 3. first successful firing of homemade potato gun 4. first coordinated robbery 5. piv 6. first acid trip 7. first time driving 100 mph 8. pia somebody said rites of passage require a grown man to lead the way for the group of young men. I say the opposite. a boy needs to figure it out with his friends, or in the case of piv… Read more »

SFC Ton
5 years ago

Existential crisis….. what is hippie shit the Ton doesn’t understand

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Lol

Looking For Zion
Looking For Zion
5 years ago

Hey Rollo, have you seen this from the DSM?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

I think most of us who have found our way here, even those who have not studied psychology per se, are familiar with both the theory and practice of Cluster B.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago
Fred Flange, Xisself
Fred Flange, Xisself
5 years ago

@AnonandonandonReader You’re +100 on “everybody knows” and yes we must be careful there to be sure that what is known is true fer surrre. Medically, everybody used to “know” you got fatal cramps if you swam 1/2 hour after eating; that drugs affect men and women the same way; that drugs affect men and children the same way; that smoking was good for your throat and kept colds away; that coffee gave you cancer; that coffee cures cancer; that eggs kill you; that eggs extend your life, that salt is bad for you, that salt is good for you. Etc.… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxt_GHYmolI

I miss the crazy bastard.

Lost Patrol
Lost Patrol
5 years ago

A cow is basically a bacterias way of collecting food in mass quantities.

TRM is basically LP’s way of collecting pithy quotes in mass quantities.

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

An interesting read, considering the time when it was written, before the so called sexual revolution, bra burning and the pill.

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@andy

Good to see you back. main thing is to focus first and foremost on your own development, and don’t worry so much about others.

I agree with a lot of what you said, especially things being needlessly cliquish.

My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys. So for people who claim to be looking out for men…they aren’t doing the best job.

rugby11
rugby11
5 years ago

Math and science

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

“My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys. ” Failed OMG here. Yareally/MM is immensely helpful for YSG and failed OMGs at getting tail after not getting any for so many years. OMGs are immensely helpful for realizing what I could have been had I swallowed the pill before blowing up the ship, and at what might be some day. Rollo is immensely helpful for seeing the man behind the curtain and for laying it out in a way… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

An interesting read, considering the time when it was written, before the so called sexual revolution, bra burning and the pill. Oops! The link didn’t post the first time. Here is the book: https://www.amazon.com/The-Fraud-Feminism-Collected-Bellfort-ebook/dp/B00SE2JJU8/ref=pd_sim_sbs_kstore_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0RKDDJKTQE6HWA31WDSY Reading this, it becomes apparent the FI was making very significant progress as early as the mid 19th century and we are experiencing much the same now as then. Pondering over this, I am considering the idea that the birth control pill potentially provides greater advantage to men (those who take advantage of opportunity) because it facilitates the sexual use of women without the consequence of… Read more »

stuffinbox
5 years ago

” Astrologers, UFO seekers, ghost hunters, political pundits, psychologists, relationship experts — all entertainers helping coach potatoes fill their leisure hours.”

They forgot my favorite,the weather man.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ Andy So, you’ve recently found the ” Ego Butterknife ” and wish to smear it all over everyone you disagree with, or those that disagree with you. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like….. I’m not the tone police. I did and still do object to needlessly talking shit about any man’s wife and children to drive a narrative. I will always be this way because it’s part of who I am. It’s got nothing to do with ego or ego protection. Irl I’d probably do one of two things, ignore the comments or knock the… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Rollo “Owen’s positive thinking mantra is stolen directly from guys like Tony Robbins and all the other PoPT gurus who would rather you believe that your mindset supersedes objective reality. ” Everything is imitation bby “the conveniently evolving narrative at RSD is shifting away from PUA – not entirely or by any means wholesale – and towards the Power of Positive thinking profit model. I predict this will be RSD main focus in the next 3 years.” If you actually pay attention in the videos your watching….. Tyler literally states this but says for now someone still has to teach… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Hank My major beef was that so many of the OMG’s drove off yareally, who has been immensely helpful to me and a lot of other younger (and older) guys. If YaReally is actually gone for good, I would say the blame rests on him more than the OMGs at this point. Rollo delivered on the Field Reports section, and so far it has been pretty much entirely focused on field reports and concrete actionable advice. He hasn’t tried the new section yet, so it’s too early to cry foul on it. But even if Rollo had said that he… Read more »

stuffinbox
5 years ago

@Blax

Over 300 comments and most are on OP topic this has to be a record.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Not an FR. Coffee break time. Two middle aged women, one probably in hter upper 40’s to low 50’s, the other a fatty in her 30’s with dirty blonde hair in need of touching up the dye job, but mascara / eye makeup. As I move around the room, the fatty looks me over even making eye contact. Years ago I would have read her expression as resentful, now it looks sad. She’d probably be a 5 if she dropped 30 pounds. Kept looking over at me until they left; peripheral vision has been a friend for years, but now… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Palleo “If YaReally is actually gone for good, I would say the blame rests on him more than the OMGs at this point.” Yes ^ It his decision to leave. “then YaReally could always just start his own. The excuses he’s given as to why he can’t start his own blog are pretty weak.” .Easier to doxx .He already stated its a time sink. He actually use to comment on the OP but all the people who wanted him to help with PUA convoluted the section. ” this is ultimately Rollo’s blog. ” I think everyone knows this…. “With all… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“Santa baby” playing at home and my oldest: “She sounds like a single mom looking for her BB.” High fives! Rollo’s reply to Andy reminds me of my old saw: “Son, you think you’re in deep when I’m yelling, it’ll be worse when I stop. That means I’ve checked out and your twisting in the wind.” I’ll cede to St. Ambrose: Those who insult us and treat us contumeliously are anxious for a spiteful and sarcastic reply: the silence we then affect disheartens them, and they cannot avoid showing their vexation; they do all they can to provoke us and… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@pellaeon Yeah, what mersonia said. It is easier to doxx if he has his own blog, and hes said that he doesn’t want to think up topics. That makes sense. Yareally mostly looks over FRs and gives advice…it doesn’t really make sense for him to make his own blog. Hes more the guy that comments on what other people say, and hes most useful when he can spend 100% of his time on giving advice to others. He shouldn’t waste his time coming up with topics and blog posts — instead, let him give advice to other men to help… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Yeah, it’s not cliques going on. More like tribal associations. The origin of the word clique in French language includes the necessity to excluding non-members. No one here is trying to exclude anyone from red pill discussion. No one is trying to shut down Game or PUA discussion. Rollo has always encouraged Game and PUA discussion. I fucking love PUA Game talk. The process matters. The process has meaning. I just wish some of the PUA guys were more satisfied, happy and emotionally fulfilled in talking about it. That speaks to Red Pill instruction and awareness–the goal is to be… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“That’s what I said in the past about marriage debate…its just too sensitive of a topic for guys to hash this out. Its gonna take a long time to figure out a solution.” I thought we settled that debate. I changed my advocacy because of the debate. Don’t ever get married ( or do it again), unless you have a lot of disposable (and I mean disposed of income) in the upper middle class with a hot babe you want to lock down which you can’t otherwise lock down to raise kids with until they are 21 years old. In… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

Mersonia

shouldn’t waste time on people stuck in a hugbox so much crying over a hugbox and yet so little to contribute yourself…

keep on keeping on…

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MKK1-bAVCyM/SLTVEVSw23I/AAAAAAAABrQ/0JOnSDHZbGU/s400/Duck%2BWaddle.jpg

quack.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

Did the fucking phantom appear again?

Jesus. The damn cultists never cease.

Elooie
Elooie
5 years ago

@rollo This post has been here for about a week so this comment might get buried but I was wondering if it would be an interesting post for you to speak to the difference in how women communicate with men they find alpha and men who are their emotional dumpster. (Its been covered in aggregate by multiple posts but not specifically how women frame the conversation) At my work, I am an expert in not only my field but in our company. Even our newly hired CFO made a comment about finally putting a face to the legend he had… Read more »

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