Rites of Passage

aboriginal-passage

In the past I’ve discussed the hesitancy of young men to refer to themselves as ‘men’ or to really even embrace what might be considered a ‘conventional’ idea of masculinity. You’ve probably read me using that word before. I use the word conventional because I feel it conveys a better understanding of a naturalized expression of masculinity in a way that men evolved into. Occasionally I have a reader ask me why I don’t use the term ‘traditional’ with respect to masculinity, but I’m not sure they really mean the same thing.

It’s easy to think of masculinity in terms of tradition, but whose tradition are we really referring to? ‘Traditional Masculinity’ as a term has assumed a derogatory meaning in a feminine-primary social order. It’s become one of those catch-terms that we’re all supposed to understand as being characteristic of backward mindsets. It’s part of the social convention that seeks to ridicule, shame and confuse boys who later become men about what masculinity ought to mean to them. So, it’s for this reason I use the word ‘conventional’. It conveys the idea that masculinity in a binary sense has evolved aspects that are inherent and unique to men. So while certain cultures may have had different traditions and traditional roles for men, there is a unifying conventionality of masculinity that relates to all men and maleness in general.

Feminine-centrism doesn’t like this idea. It doesn’t like the idea that masculine characteristics or behaviors are the sole propriety of men. The reflex then is to paint any conventionally masculine attribute, way of thinking, aggression, passion or aspiration as either representative of ‘toxic’ harmful or anti-social, or, depending on its usefulness in securing power, it’s cast as something “not necessarily masculine” since some women can lay claim to that trait.

In several prior posts I’ve outlined how boys are taught from a very early age to gender-loathe their maleness. It’s part of Blue Pill conditioning, but more so, I think it’s important for Blue Pill or unplugging adult men to understand the mechanics and reasoning behind why it’s in the Feminine Imperative’s interests to keep conventional masculinity something ambiguous, arbitrary or something men ought to be able to fluidly define for themselves. That last part there is important, because what most men think is their own self-definition of masculinity is always founded in what the Feminine Imperative has conditioned him to believe is correct.

Latent Purposes

In a social order that’s ostensibly founded upon a baseline equalism (in principle) among men and women we have to look at why it might be necessary for boys to be taught that ‘traditional’ masculinity is toxic. The easy answer is a want for control, but not so much in the terms of convincing boys to become men who will loathe their maleness. Remember, there’s a lot of conventional masculinity that is conveniently useful to further the interests of women and Hypergamy – but the conditioning becomes one of selectively classifying the useful aspects as ‘healthy’ and the non-useful ones as ‘toxic’.

The most important thing to consider here is that, for future men, equalism’s purpose in their upbringing is to prevent them from ever internalizing the idea that they should be their own mental point of origin. This I think is one of the fundamental issues most Blue Pill men struggle with in their own unplugging.

One of the old books, traditional, understandings is that men, by virtue of being male, can expect a degree of authority in their lives and in their families. A man may not be the boss at work, but the traditional understanding was that he could expect to be the head of household in his own home. Feminine primacy, under the auspices of equalism, has effectively conditioned this idea out of men over the course of generations. If men and women are blank-slate functional equals, ideally, there will never be a default authority in an intersexual relationship.

From a conventional, evolutionary perspective we know this baseline equalism is not just false, but we also understand that it serves as a control over the masculine nature men are born into. Men and women are different; cognitively, neurologically, biologically and psychologically, but our socialized presumptions with regard to how boys are raised to be men deliberately conditions them to believe we are the same – or at least functionally so.

The Crime of Being Male

There’s been some pushback to this in our Red Pill awakening, and not all of it is the result of the manosphere. As Hypergamy becomes more openly embraced in a larger social respect, more men are made aware of their deliberate conditioning to accommodate it. What they choose to do with that awareness is up to them, but the response from the Feminine Imperative to this awareness is to criminalize or make toxic the embrace of conventional masculinity on the part of men. It becomes a hate-crime to express any conventionally male attribute.

This is a potential danger for Blue Pill men in that the expressions of maleness that they display are on one hand desired by women, but also a risk to their reputation or livelihood if that expression is offensive to women. Red Pill aware men may have the advantage of knowing women’s nature well enough to mitigate the risks, but Blue Pill men will be stuck in a paradigm that puts them at risk for wanting to be men.

Again, equalist Blue Pill conditioning’s purpose is to prevent men from assuming themselves as their mental point of origin, but once a man’s disabused himself of putting the feminine as his primary internal concern there must be an opposite, contingent, reaction on the part of the Feminine Imperative to put him back into compliance. Thus, we see the criminalization of maleness.

Pedestals

For some time it’s been a manosphere staple to tell guys to take the girl off the pedestal if he wants to be successful with women. We call it pedestalization, but one reason that dynamic, to put a woman on a higher order than oneself, is so pervasive in men is due exactly to this “equalist” conditioning. The internalization is one of making that girl, that woman, the centerpiece of a man’s headspace. This becomes who he is and it’s the result of a childhood that taught him he must place the concerns of girls above his own on many different psychological levels.

Once that guy becomes Red Pill aware, no matter who does his unplugging, not only does he remove girls from the pedestal personally, but also on a larger sociological scope. And this scope is what the Feminine Imperative must pushback against.

Blue Pill conditioning teaches boys/men to cast doubt on their own masculinity. What constitutes masculinity? Is it a mask or a performance they put on? Is it something to be proud of or some problem to keep in check? Should boys/men feel insecure or secure about it? These are the consistent ambiguities the Feminine Imperative wants to invest into the next generations of men because it keeps women on the pedestal. Only women possess the solution to their problem of maleness.

But the Blue Pill also conditions boys/men to never presume to consider themselves as a “man”. The joke is that men are never really men, but rather they become ‘bigger boys’. This is a social convention that attempts to keep men in a juvenilized state and thus ensuring women are the only ‘adults’ to make the judgement call. This ridicule has the purpose of denying men their status of ‘manhood’. If men are perpetual boys, they can never assume the default ‘headship’ of being men. It is a control for authority.

This is another reason men are conditioned to keep women on the pedestal; only women can confirm ‘manhood’ from a superior (mental) position in that man’s mind. When a woman is at the top of a man’s mental point of origin – and not even a specific woman, but womankind – she decides his status of being a man. So it follows that men ought to internalize the doubt of understanding manhood or conventional masculinity.

So, the struggle men have in coming to a Red Pill awareness is one of removing women from this pedestal, but also one of giving oneself permission to be a man. This may seem kind of simplistic, but to a guy who’s been conditioned to put women before himself in his own internal, mental, conversations it’s a very tough challenge. Blue Pill conditioning invests a doubt into boys and then men. They are conditioned to self-regulate on many levels, but to generally put their own concerns beneath those of others and largely the feminine. They are taught to self-sublimate by never giving themselves permission to be “men” in a conventional sense.

Iron Rule of Tomassi #9

Never Self-Deprecate under any circumstance. This is a Kiss of Death that you self-initiate and is the antithesis of the Prize Mentality. Once you’ve accepted yourself and presented yourself as a “complete douche” there’s no going back to confidence with a woman. Never appeal to a woman’s sympathies. Her sympathies are given by her own volition, never when they are begged for – women despise the obligation of sympathy. Nothing kills arousal like pity. Even if you don’t seriously consider yourself pathetic, it never serves your best interest to paint yourself as pathetic. Self-Depreciation is a misguided tool for the AFC, and not something that would even occur to an Alpha.

One important reason I made this an Iron Rule was because it’s almost a default response of men to presume their own ridiculousness. The reflexive response is of course to not take yourself so seriously and have an ability to laugh at yourself when it’s merited. That’s all fine and well, a necessity for a healthy sense of self, but few men realize their ease with self-deprecation is a result of their conditioning to find themselves ridiculous as men. “Men” are ridiculous.

It’s very easy for Red Pill aware men to lose sight of what the Blue Pill conditions men for and how this conditioning has evolved over the course of generations. The latent purpose remains the same (preventing men from adopting their own mental point of origin), but the methods and social mores change fluidly with what the Feminine Imperative finds most efficient for the time. For the past 20 years there’s been a concentrated effort to remove men from deciding their own manhood for themselves.

Rites of Passage

From Remove the Man:

Guys vs. Men

I was participating in a conversation just recently with a young woman of 26 and a young man of 18. The conversation itself wasn’t important, but at one point the young man referred to himself as a ‘Man’. He said something to the effect of, “Well I’m a man, and men do,..” At the word ‘man’ she cut him off with the unconscious snigger that’s resulted from years of feminine ridicule conditioning. Just the mention of a man self-referencing as a “man” is enough to inspire feminine ridicule. It’s laughable for a man to consider himself a man.

This exchange got me to wondering about the turning point at which I began to self-reference as a “Man”. In the face of a constant conditioned ridicule, it’s almost an uncomfortable recognition to distinguish yourself as a Man. It’s too easy to just think of yourself as a ‘guy’ and never be so presumptuous as to insist upon your manhood. In girl-world, to claim to be a Man is to admit to arrogance – it’s to embrace a flawed nature.

It’s important to note here that in embracing your status as a Man, instead of ‘just a guy’, you are passing a meta-shit test. By embracing self-referenced manhood, you are rejecting what a world aligned against you would like you to believe about yourself. You’re endorsing yourself as a Man with self-assurance despite the self-doubt the Feminine Imperative relies upon men believing about themselves, masculinity and the dubious state of manhood as a whole. By flagrantly referring to yourself as a Man you are passing the meta-shit test – you’re overtly stating you’re a Man, but you you’re covertly stating “I Just Get It.”

One of the key elements to unplugging is changing your mind about yourself. This is one of the biggest obstacle to guys coming to accept a Red Pill aware reality. This self-denial of their own ‘manhood’, which becomes a resistance to embracing anything conventionally masculine as being positive, is a foreign thought.

As I mentioned in that post, there used to be a time when boys would go through some rite of passage and be considered a ‘man’ by his family and peers. It’s important for Red Pill men to realize how this passage into a state of manhood has been deliberately confused or shamed out of significance to all but the most traditional of cultures.

Most male rites of passage are painted as cruel and barbaric hazing rituals in a fem-centric society. That’s a popularized and easy connection to make, but what underlies this effort to disqualify manhood as legitimate is a push to force men into compliance with the Feminine Imperative and feminine-primacy.

I would suggest that men coming into a Red Pill awareness need to embrace being a “man”. Red Pill men need a rite of passage of some sort. Sometimes we ask about when a guy finally came into his Red Pill awareness. We compare stories about what we were like when we were still living in a Blue Pill paradigm and then what form of trauma (or not) triggered that Blue Pill disillusionment. We discuss going through the various stages of grief for our past Blue Pill idealism, the nihilism, the anger, the disbelief, then the acceptance and the new enthusiasm of being Red Pill aware and the potential that means.

But there needs to be a rite of passage for passing from that Blue Pill state to a new Red pill awareness and part of this should be a conscious acknowledgement of  giving yourself permission to be a man. This needs to be part of changing your mind about yourself as you become more aware of the agency you really have in a conventionally male respect. You need a point at which you set yourself apart from Blue Pill men and a feminine-primary social order.

Most (Beta) guys have a difficult time embracing the authority and due deference that being a conventional man should convey to him. They are uncomfortable on an ego-personality level with accepting this dominant male role because it goes against everything their feminine-centric upbringing has taught them to internalize.

However, with that authority comes responsibility. I would argue that many a Blue Pill guy is comforted by the lies of equalism because he believes that egalitarianism and the expectations that men and women are functional equals in some way exempts him from his uniquely male burden of performance. On some level of consciousness, even the Beta men who are comforted by equalism still realize that their maleness, their ‘secure’ masculinity, will only ever be merited and judged by his performance. And that performance is firmly grounded in conventionally male tests.

 

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

637 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

What I appear to be is a human Rorshcach test

I’ve been meaning to ask somebody, why is it that every picture that guy Rorshach ever painted turns out to be just about sex? Sex, sex, sex, what’s the deal with him? I think he had a filthy mind.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Hermann Rorschach

comment image

Because he looked like a grandfather of Mr. Fight Club.

And false premises are common logical non-denominators in vogue here.

dr zipper
dr zipper
5 years ago

@scribb – the 5 steps closely resemble mine

“You realize what is possible and redesign your behavior and POV to be aligned with what you want out of life and who you are.”

This is a well-articulated description of where I currently see myself with occassional flashbacks to #2 “This is about the lost time and how badly you have served yourself” in times of reflection.

Though I’ve never really hated myself, just have some regrets that are diminishing and being replaced with the good stuff I’m now creating.

good stuff scribb

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“Mainly, its OMG’s who accept any questioning of marriage as a personal assault on their wives”

Super duper false premise. More like full on assault on our wives with 70 year old wrinkly parts.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago
Kate
Kate
5 years ago

Nice to see you acknowledge that the outrage over the MMM was ridiculous, but you’re still wrong about what happened. So, these other guys (who make their money off their readership and products) plugged back in and paid for their new wives. Big deal. MM didn’t buy me. Our love is pure. I love him because he’s fn hilarious, and he went in a gas chamber as a Marine and came out glad it cured his cold. I love him because he once stood on the side of a highway holding a sign warning drivers about a speed trap after… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@scribblerg
December 11, 2016 at 6:09 am

?”And of course, you are assuming 80% of of men can’t get laid, lol. Have you read anything here? Perhaps you should try out this thing called “The Red Pill”? Let me break it down for you….”

High five dude.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

High five Kate.Too.

What is this MMM you are referring to?

Your virtue signalling is admirable.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Geisha Kate
Nice to see you acknowledge that the outrage over the MMM was ridiculous, but you’re still wrong about what happened.

That’s not what Rollo said, dearie, your reading skills have not improved with time, not one bit.
No matter how many pedestalizing White Knights you draw into your drama, Miz Geisha, the facts won’t change. Don’t you have better things to do in your gynocentric compound than slum around here? Flounce along, dearie.

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@ollie

Lol at Blax & kfg being PUAs… That’s a good one.

You need to spend a bit more time here and actually get to know the regulars before you start spouting bullshit.

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@scrib
” I have a nickname for men who give up. “Losers”. Notice it’s not based on whether they win or lose.”

Agreed. Losers step out of the arena.

rugby11
5 years ago

“If we fail to provide boys with pro-social models of the transition to adulthood, they may construct their own. In some cases, gang initiation rituals, street racing, and random violence may be the result.” ― Leonard Sax, Boys Adrift: The Five Factors Driving the Growing Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys and Underachieving Young Men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQGcX32B8E4 “The child expects to look up to the parent, to be instructed by the parent, indeed to be commanded by the parent. If the parent instead serves the child, then that relationship falls out of its natural balance. You may not earn your child’s love at… Read more »

Junior
Junior
5 years ago

@Rollo “Blog PSA: I am hereby pulling all RSD material from TRM as of now. I have come into some very reliable information that the spamming of this blog and the legitimacy I’ve built over several years is intentional.” For a guy who claims to want to help those who want help, & who should value extremely highly the comments of YaReally reflecting the reality of the field that even you yourself are not able to comment on with authority because you’re no longer in the field to the same extent YaReally is – the only commenter who has had… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@othergrain The meaning of life is to procreate. A man’s sexual strategy is to mate with as many women as possible and if in our monogamous society his strategy is thwarted, he’ll seek out the most aesthetically pleasing partner his resources and genetic stock will allow. You write “Men have no uses for resources, outside of how they help him successfully reproduce.That’s it.” But you also later wrote “I don’t spend a dime of my ‘resources’ on women in order to have sex with them.” You’re aware of the social stigma, among your peers, of spending money on a woman… Read more »

SFC Ton
5 years ago

So if mgtow are losers because they don’t procreate doesn’t that mean PUA who don’t procreate are losers?

Not that I buy into either position

FIWL
FIWL
5 years ago

@ollie About Looks. @Rollo also because i think he may also see an alternative perspective. As a PUA foremost who is in field at least 2 times a week for almost a year now and then with the knowledge of Redpill, here is my take. In the initial approach, your eye contact matters that is all. Next time, when you walk in street , observe even a 7 year old girl. She has better frame of holding an eye contact with stranger that average guy has. And a girl because of more social experience, will become a pro by the… Read more »

FIWL
FIWL
5 years ago

@yareally If you ever see this , know that your writing has indeed helped me in a way that I will never forget your writing and you in my whole life. In the world, people make fun of guys who are nerdy and analytical about this. Especially, when it comes to women who are difficult to understand, it becomes more so. But by your writing, you totally showed that all the behaviours is totally logical for a guy who can see through the bullshit and understand the deeper ways in which the message is sent. Here in my culture, a… Read more »

FIWL
FIWL
5 years ago

@hank I agree in general with yours and Trent’s view that theory and field knowledge help each other. Also, now that the guy who is more practical oriented has left that is Yareally, I don’t feel that urge to like visit TRM like before, when it hooked me so much I forget everything in life and put them in backburner and focused on reading comments and new posts daily even rereading older comments and posts. Yareally and Rollo was a powerful combination complimenting each other in the understanding of women. The guys who snark here at PUA and play up… Read more »

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“In the world, people make fun of guys who are nerdy and analytical about this.”

My quiet, analytical, calculus son to a tee. He pulled off a great date and she’s already called him back and desirous of his affection now. His experience is in FR.

This stuff works.

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

“You write “Men have no uses for resources, outside of how they help him successfully reproduce.That’s it.” But you also later wrote “I don’t spend a dime of my ‘resources’ on women in order to have sex with them.” Your ego forced you to contradict yourself.” There is no contradiction, there’s a difference in sexual strategies which shows your lack of RP understanding. Resources are used by men to successfully reproduce. Outside of that, they are useless. Not all men follow this strategy to reproduce…you are aware of that, right? “A woman’s sexual strategy is to disqualify unsuitable mating partners.… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

The PUA crowd might like this, who knows, the OMG crowd also might, wait that’s right, it’s just fucking science, it doesn’t matter who likes it…

https://www.ted.com/talks/jia_jiang_what_i_learned_from_100_days_of_rejection

Julian
Julian
5 years ago

Rollo, I’ve bought both Red Pill, and Blue Pill Prevention and read all,read all, also following your blog very regularly, going out and working on to improve my game, trying to live my life according to the teachings, so please reply my below as i’m so confused what to do… I’m literally good “boy friend material” acc to main stream narrative (like really have looks, business success and money, don’t really have to mind fuck myself that i’m of high value i have that even acc to “mainstream narrative”, on top of that i have improved my game). I’ve been… Read more »

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

@Scrib,

Well put on the whole arc of red pill experience.

I cosign your sentiment about respecting men who take what they need from TRP, TRM, PUA whatever and fashion themselves into whatever they want to be with that knowledge.

RedPill_BitterPill
RedPill_BitterPill
5 years ago

I’ve been lurking and reading, which has sparked some thinking. Here’s the fruit of it, subjectively speaking (this is not about pick up, but I think it makes the case for men having to take the lead in families): My family looks respectable on the surface (not any dependents of mine, I have none, I lost my wife and I’m single, rather my parents, siblings and extended family), but in reality it’s a dysfunctional mess, and as far as I can see it, it’s all caused by the female members. This all seems to stem from my Mother’s Mother, who… Read more »

RedPill_BitterPill
RedPill_BitterPill
5 years ago

p.s. ^ excuse the dumb repetition in the last few paragraphs.

Sentient
Sentient
5 years ago

i’ve also never been together with such a beautiful girl before.

Fix that, then see how you feel. Don’t make decisions from scarcity mindset.

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

RPBP, Ha, sounds like my mother, fucking selfish cunt she is A few years after I got married I had two young children, I could no longer accept my mother’s bullying behavior (Narccissist etc). Her bullying of her own children was starting to wander in the direction of bullying the grand kids. So like you I called her out on her behavior towards my kids and said no more. We got up and left mid dinner and I didn’t speak to her again for two months. Now she was guilty of a lot of the same things as your grand… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Alright lets see if I can say good-bye without being a douche. @Rollo – I apologize being a dick. When someone you admire shits on someone else you admire it’s frustrating. Yeah, it’d be great if RSD/PUA and TRM and MGTOW and MRA’s all got along and realized that they’re all complementary pieces of the whole solution for guys. But that’s just idealism. It is what it is. Anyway your writing is CRUCIAL for every man to understand. I’ll keep reading your posts, and look forward to the next book. If you (or anyone else) are curious in what this… Read more »

DisgruntledEarthling
DisgruntledEarthling
5 years ago

@AR
“I’ve been meaning to ask somebody, why is it that every picture that guy Rorshach ever painted turns out to be just about sex? Sex, sex, sex, what’s the deal with him? I think he had a filthy mind.”

I see what you did there…

trackback

[…] Rites of Passage […]

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@Agent P Well said. The men in wifey’s family are whipped, checked out and are walking wallets, married to shrew fatties. Never understood the willingness to kow-tow to that and, well, yep, all the women in her family love me and tell their men that they could learn something (what a kick to the teeth). I usually bust them if they triangulate in my presence, label them ungrateful, and tell them, in essence, to STFU immediately. They freak, but ultimately love it. I’ve talked about the state of my father and brother in law marriages with my oldest boy and… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

@Red_Pill BItter_Pill All I got is a +1 to Agent P and EhIntellect. Outcome independence, the ZFG mindset is the only way to deal with this kind of stuff, because if you care the way they want you to care then you just become part of their ongoing dollhouse of drama. That stuff can kill a man. Not exaggerating. Stroke and heart attack are often caused by high blood pressure, which in turn is often caused by stress that never gets relieved. A man spends all day at work, comes home to something like a time bomb combined with a… Read more »

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

@othergrain “It’s not the procreation or lack thereof that makes a man a loser (although in the genetic sense it ia) it’s the fact that he didn’t want to try.” I don’t disagree, but more about a failed paradigm/mindset. They claim that it’s about Value vs Drama, when it’s much closer to fear & scarcity. Fear & scarcity is the ultimate roadblock to a man realizing his full potential. While nature may have no use for a man who checks out of the game, it goes much deeper. Fear is insidious… once it latches hold, it expands into every other… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Good luck, @Andy, but I think that you will be back after you learn a few lessons. You’ve got some more de-programming to do from the Blue Pill Matrix.

Maybe it’s Roosh and Krauser… Not exactly great spokespersons.

Who the hell ever mentioned them? Where did this come from.

Glengarry
Glengarry
5 years ago

Regarding bots, it seems to be a technology that’s in testing now. I saw an article (now lost) about how a lot of the political twittering back-and-forth before the election actually was due to bots. Here is a simple example of how this can be used: http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/219117/we-built-a-bot-that-trolls-twitters-worst-anti-semitic-trolls

Not sure about what is the end game. Massive plausible astro turfing of comments on demand?

(More related to our topics, I’ve heard Tinder is full of bots as well.)

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

“stormed off down the main road, one foot in the gutter, the other on the verge, several miles to home, whilst traffic flew just inches past at 60 mph” Oh, man…. This was a favorite jealousy tactic of my wife years back. I soon stopped looking for her and later nonchalantly told her that I ain’t coming to get her, she should probably be more responsible, then shrug my shoulders…but as you’ve read here she really loves the drama. She feels really vulnerable in these conversations, gets close to me, and then gets all sweet on me. She’s usually all… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago

Even the directors of story’s cannot escape the performance…
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN3CtaFBJ8G/

Agent P
Agent P
5 years ago

@EhIntellect

I am with you in feeling I need to learn game more formally now so I can teach son in these things. Also, so I can perhaps better understand YSG’s etc, not to mention, you’ve gotta stay sharp right?

Besides, if I don’t learn and implement game, then I could be accused of using my marriage as a buffer and pussying out of the broader SMP.

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

@FIWL

https://therationalmale.com/2014/07/08/game-and-circumstance/

If you have the time please read the comment section. Narec, Beauty is Truth, Professor Von Hardwiggs are brilliant.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
5 years ago

@ Agent P My woman sees the reaction of much younger women, I assume. Hence the accusations, fear. I’m being bold, giving the feel that I could fuck them. My woman’s there usually. IDK, if I was routinely flaming out, the missus wouldn’t care I assume. mini FR: Coworkers HB8, young mom, 5’3″, 110. He’s passive Beta, nice enough though. I’m drinking, AMOGing, super confident as at the pre-party bar another institution contract negotiator tried to entice me to jump ship. Fuck, I was feeling good, buzzed. Talk a lot to the hottie, didn’t touch her or get sexual, honestly….as… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

This is a comment from gregg on the game and circumstance essay. gregg July 10, 2014 at 10:45 am @novaseeker “Again, no-one is saying that it isn’t *harder* if you are short.” This is no the point. The message of “game” is that you have TO DO something in order to have women. This is precisely the message feminine imperative wants you to believe. Men erected the fucking civilization in order to “earn” women. The truth is – If you are attractive YOU NEED NOT TO DO ANYTHING. You just fucking grab her and fuck her! She will do all… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Andy: ” I have all the tools I need guys.” Use them well and learn to use to use them wisely. “PEACE!” Indeed, and ‘mon back any time you feel it would enhance yours. @The Peanut Gallery: I am pro-game, or, as we called it back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, social skills. Any issues I have with PUAs are with PUAs, not game. I cannot honestly remember who said it (but my brain is trying to tell me that it was Jacques Laffite, or at least someone French), but recall an interview with an F1 driver… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Women would obsess over mass murders, drug dealers, LOOSERS with no job and money, etc…provided that they are HOT!” Yes, because to a woman those are part of his “looks.” And they enhance them. “Therefore they protect the truth about the importance of looks for them.” Ummmmm, the vast majority of men assume that looks are of primary importance to women, because that is what is of primary importance to men. But cats are not dogs and you are engaging in an odd inversion of reality here. Which I suppose is to be expected from someone who believes that jerking… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

Another comment from the game and circumstance thread. Beauty is Truth sums things up nicely. Beauty Is Truth July 10, 2014 at 1:57 pm I think the main reason guys lash out in such a way towards looks is because they’ve been told throughout their entire lives or “pick up” careers that looks don’t matter as much as game. Every man out there that games, goes after young women and in doing so, will inevitably come to the harsh (depending on your attractiveness) reality that looks do in fact matter. These truths are shunned throughout the pua-shpere and in some… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

“The truth is – If you are attractive YOU NEED NOT TO DO ANYTHING.” That’s where your hangup is? Bad news man, you gotta bust a move, weren’t you the one telling ME about burden of performance? But you’re equating starting an interaction and showing someone your value as serving the FI… “So, which gender is more into the “looks” department. Of course – women as a genetic filter. They HAVE to be! Good looks – good genes.” Nope, how does her man looking good keep her and her offspring safe? Good looks are a cue for MEN because of… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
5 years ago

Therefore they protect the truth about the importance of looks for them. Wise tactics for them! Let those who have eyes to see. Well, ollie, gregg was simply wrong there, as was Dumbwiggs in the threads in that timeframe. As kfg says, cats are not dogs. Looks don’t matter to women to anything like the degree they matter to men. Men often project that they matter, because it’s what matters to them *and* it provides them with a convenient excuse to avoid upping their game “because I will never look like [fill-in-the-blank]”. Looks are what predominantly matter to men, while… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

The reason “looks don’t matter” is pushed so hard is because it is probably THE biggest limiting belief that will keep men from EVER even trying. As kfg pointed out, it’s men projecting their attraction cues onto women. But if you can get guys to start taking right action, it’s only a matter of time before they start seeing results. Plenty of FREE sources out there saying the same thing too, so it’s not all just con men bad bad PUA industry selling lies. It simply shows that you don’t go out enough. Because you’ll see good looking guys drop… Read more »

ollieoxenfree1
5 years ago

Sorry, this is the last one from game and circumstance. Again from Gregg. gregg July 10, 2014 at 1:39 pm @novaseeker we are speaking about the same, I agree with you. But the following: “No-one who has ever advanced the usefulness of Game has ever said that looks do not matter, or that Game can get every man laid with an HB 10.” is not the truth. Rollo is one of the minority that accepts the importance of genetics – looks. Just try to go to roissy and tell that looks are important. You will be banned from comment section.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg
Ummmmm, the vast majority of men assume that looks are of primary importance to women, because that is what is of primary importance to men.

Yep.
The mirror image of this explains why so many women are hot to get an MBA and tell lots of men about it. Because projection.

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

https://goo.gl/images/CjvB05 10/10 aesthetics, would not argue if mother, sisters, wife, daughters couldn’t resist that PRIME of all attraction triggers, an overall “softness” of features lol Looks only matter insofar as the behaviours that are assumed to go with them. If the behaviours do not match, it has been a common utterance of women: “waste of genetic potential.” Ugly guys, short guys, brown guys…come one come all! Don’t bother trying because no girl will find you attractive. The fact that you exist is pure anomaly and your lineage should have been eradicated from the human genome generations ago! http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=143517603 The above… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Ollie, why are you dredging up old comments from 2014? Just write what’s on your mind now in 2016.

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@RedPill_BitterPill Have you read “When I say no, I feel guilty,” yet? I feel like that would help give you a lot of tools to deal with your family. You can never control someone else, but you can control how you react and behave yourself. @DisgruntledEarthling “I’ve been meaning to ask somebody, why is it that every picture that guy Rorshach ever painted turns out to be just about sex? Sex, sex, sex, what’s the deal with him? I think he had a filthy mind.” I see what you did there… Haha I actually laughed out loud on this one.… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

Rollo The average guy doesn’t go out more than Fri and Sat, whether that’s can’t or won’t is besides the point. But even with two days, if he goes out smart, he can learn a lot more than the average guy getting hammered with his small social circle, which may or may not even have females. It’s a mix of quantity and quality time ‘in field’ If a guy says he’s never seen a short guy pull a girl taller than him, or a minority guy have genuine attraction from a tall blond tourist from Sweden, or the ugly guy… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

Forgot to mention, you’re also right that most guys have other obligations: family, work, other hobbies. But remember YaReally pushing for a few years of HYPERfocus on pickup, to get over some of the major hurdles and roadblocks, and then focus on other things, only go out once or twice a week, game when you’re at the grocery store, etc. Whether that’s feasible or something a guy wants to do is up to the individual. It’s simply a faster route. Finite time in the day, spend it on progressing on whatever you choose. The less you practice, the longer it… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Rollo One thing guy’s new to PUA will never be able to argue against is ” you need to go out more” and if you fail, it’s because you haven’t gone out enough to perfect your Game. I definitely see the truth in that, but at the same time it’s easily the most convenient fall back used to explain a guy’s lack of Game success or something to blame his disbelief or lack of understanding on. Didn’t hook up? It’s because you don’t go out often enough. Don’t believe in the process? It’s because you haven’t gone out often enough… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Rollo

It’s stated explicitly that if you aren’t going out 4 hours a night 4 days a week you’re not gaming.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Rollo Rhetorical: I fully agree with the idea that practice makes possible, but what qualifies as practice? How many hours infield is necessary to confirm or disconfirm a process? If an OMG applies Game in his marriage and turns his sex life around does that count as practice? Since the Red Pill is all about praxology, the answer is likely “It depends on the goals”. If the OMG’s goal was to turn his sex life around, and something like Athol’s original MAP achieves that, surely he practiced enough. On the other hand a YSG incel STEM major who’s afraid to… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Rollo

“So then, how many guys are dedicating 16 hours/week to be considered Gaming?”

Not many.

“I presume ‘going out’ is only valid if you’re at a club as well?”

Areas with lots of people (females). Clubs are Ideal ( since A+ females in one area).

You could go to a large tailgating party and game. EDM concerts and such..(might not be hot tho)

But attractive females will be in clubs so that’s what the field is usually considered

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

mersonia
It’s stated explicitly that if you aren’t going out 4 hours a night 4 days a week you’re not gaming.

Who states that, where?

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Rollo I fully agree with the idea that practice makes possible, but what qualifies as practice? Any socialization can count as practice, within the context of the environment, audience, and current mental state that you are currently socializing in. If you are walking around an old folks home chatting up the lonely old women, that can help you with learning how to establish comfort and rapport, but it will likely do you little good in terms of picking getting a young woman with a hot body to go to bed with you. Walking is good exercise, but it is not… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

Rollo – outstanding comments in this section. I want to give my feedback to your question but also say about your response to Andy about 2 pages back – the whole ‘positive thinking’ ruse, in my experience, actually is the most important component of a newbie YSG getting laid *and yet* IMO that has to be divorced entirely from attempting to emulate a ‘guru’ like Owen Cook. Guys that are trying to be like some particular PUA star are screwing themselves, because they’re inauthentic and everyone knows it. A guy’s ‘affirmations’ should just be his ‘story’ and he should be… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

“If an OMG applies Game in his marriage and turns his sex life around does that count as practice?” It’s practice in turning a marriage around. Will there be many crossovers and similarities with gaming in a club? Yes, see Sentients “game is the language of female attraction” or something to the same effect. The context DOES matter though…the staring point, the end goal, etc. “Or is it only valid if he divorces her and goes out to practice with younger, hotter, tighter? Are the hours he spent experimenting with Gaming his wife less valuable than the hours a guy… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

mersonia
But attractive females will be in clubs so that’s what the field is usually considered

Huh. So shopping malls during the day are not considered to be “field”?
Coffee shops near a college campus during the day is not “field”? The campus student union building is not “field”? Hotel restaurants are not “field”?

Looks like I missed a memo. Whatever happened to “Always be opening” and “Always be gaming? Who decides this, is there a PUA Board of Standard Practices somewhere?

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“The less you practice, the longer it will take.”

Counterintuitively, however, that particular equation is not commutative.

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Rollo Practicing it once was enough to achieve a desired result, so did he ‘go out’ enough to master a process? No. @Joe K Looks are at least 30-50% of the equation – and this will never change. *Sigh* You’re gonna fuck up a lot of newbies with these kinds of statements. This kind of thinking is what led me to go full on, avoid women, MGTOW while I tried to focus on losing weight and gaining muscle. It was only YaReally convincing me that it was wrong that got me back into pick up, and I’m glad I did.… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

“If the AFC in your example uses Agree & Amplify just once and it works for him on the first try, should that be a confirmation of process and praxeology? Practicing it once was enough to achieve a desired result, so did he ‘go out’ enough to master a process?” See Owen’s constant refrain of “try it 10 times and report back” for a decent start. Then try it on 10 ugly girls, then try it on 10 ugly girls who think they aren’t, etc. Until you come away with some consistent insights. There are nuances to every interaction and… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Rollo Yes, but how often have you read anyone type “you just haven’t spent enough time reading the praxeology” or “it’s all true, you just don’t read enough?” In the last 6 years? On any blog? More than one time. Definately more than one time. I get that the fear is that a noob will spend all his time reading and contemplating and chatting in forums about Game or TRP or whatever at the expense of going out into the field and practicing. Fear? Nah. It’s reality. The men who often need to learn how to apply Game the most… Read more »

rugby11
5 years ago

Novaseeker “Most of the guys who are projecting that looks are what women are primarily attracted to are just guys who are lacking the things that women actually ARE primarily attracted to, and are not good looking to boot, so they blame the one thing that may be hardest to change rather than doing the work to change the things that actually matter and that they can change.” Makes me thinks of dominates. https://soundcloud.com/sierra-francisco-javier/02-sober-tool-live Men the ability to lead and not manipulate… To work in the open and apply Game as a means on “Just getting it”… You could not… Read more »

mersonia
5 years ago

@Anon reader

“Huh. So shopping malls during the day are not considered to be “field”?
Coffee shops near a college campus during the day is not “field”? The campus student union building is not “field”? Hotel restaurants are not “field”?”

Work On Reading Comprehension.

“Looks like I missed a memo. ”

comment image

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Joe K Looks are at least 30-50% of the equation – and this will never change. Nah. Just nah. I agree with Palleon, this kind of claim just messes men up. It’s testable, too. Now, I’m of the “go and lift!” school of thinking but it isn’t because Only Jacked Guys Get Girls, it’s for physical and mental health. Upper body lifting is an efficient way to increase T in a man, and that helps with thinking and acting and subcomms including the way a man smells. All good stuff, but not necessary. Looks do not matter to girls they… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg
Counterintuitively, however, that particular equation is not commutative.

Practice makes permanent. Only perfect practice makes perfect.
The “10,000 hours” meme is not exactly correct.

mersonia
5 years ago

@Rollo

http://i.imgur.com/khqLfeA.gif

Video seemed like a pretty accurate description of Red Pill

RSD should get around to understanding things like AWALT though.

But yeah Mainstream red pill is viewed is angry women haters and you go to red pill Reddit. Roosh heartiste and major RP sites. The view is supported lol thats why most pua’s dont care about it

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Mersonia
Work On Reading Comprehension.

Irony.

Can’t answer the questions? Are they too hard?

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . talking about shooting rather than just going shooting . . . ” Posers and collectors buy and talk about guns. Shooters buy and use ammo. Lots and lots of ammo. * And the old saw is true more often than not: Beware the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it. ** *You guys with a garage full of .22LR? Yeah, you. It’s about time you held a garage sale and let some people who actually shoot have some of that stuff. The industry standard for rimfire shelf life is only… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
5 years ago

Yea Rollo, I watched that one last night. I agree that it’s not an accurate representation of TRM -specifically- but it’s how A LOT of the RP/manosphere IS, and it’s absolutely the mainstream view of it. It sucks that you have such shitty bedfellows, but anger is part of the process of unplugging, some men stay there and start blogs. I don’t expect you to have to defend other writers, but there IS actual misogyny in the manosphere lol. I’m sure if you and Todd discussed women over a beer, you wouldn’t disagree on anything really. Again, idk how you… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Rollo, how recent is this vid? Just wondering.

Mersonia, to troll effectively with gifs you need to use a different one each time. Using the same one three times in a row is amateurish, kinda retarded. Just saying.

rugby11
5 years ago

11857
https://soundcloud.com/bcexe6yh/tool-lateralus-2001-full-album
The numbers of sheer abundance… Co creation and complementary

Oberve with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQEu7KROUjU Dominance

Behavior and adaption
http://www.slideshare.net/james3b/exec-summaries-high-altitude-leadership

mersonia
5 years ago

@Rollo

“Fuck you, Mersonia, and take that back to your cult leader.”
http://i.imgur.com/xHyRbEU.gif

This is why I’ve tried to explain to you before…..that TRM doesn’t really have the negative view that TRP has and differs.

I mean honestly…if anyone was pure red pill they would just nuke their marriage lololol.

Lol I mean if you haven’t noticed most men don’t even get past the anger phase. Once again I’ve stated I only like TRM because it’s different from red pill.

Disclaimer : Mersonia is not part of an Cult.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Only perfect practice makes perfect.” Then add in the fact that one’s capacity for perfect practice in a given unit of time is finite. It “takes it out of you.” 5 minutes of laser focused practice beats 4 hours of farting around in a brain fog. And then add in that a supermajority of the neuroplastic adaptation happens between practice sessions, not during. 5 minutes twice a day beats half an hour straight through. And so now the peanut gallery knows the secret* of how to learn “effortlessly,” become a Jack of All Trades and actually master several of them,… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Rollo, cued the vid up to 9:00 and ran to 12:25. It’s annoying to see this false dichotomy of “Red Pill vs. White Knight”, and this sort of talk is going to hurt men just as much as dumb stuff like “Looks Matter”. Because by focusing only on the tactics of Game as realized in PUA, this sets men up for betaization and ultimate failure in LTR’s – Mystery being a case in point. The black guy on the street talking about how generalizing is bad, on an RSD vid is unintentionallly ironic: PUA works because down in the hindbrain,… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
5 years ago

@rollo again, you are arguing two different things. Scray, yareally only gave a shit about RSD because they made good pua videos. They could fuck infants and go on amass murdering spree and it wouldn’t change the fact that they made good videos. If they start making tony robbins shit, nobody cares. The only thing PUAs care about is “does this video illustrate game concepts accurately.” If they stop doing that, guys will stop watching them and linking their videos. You somehow equate “Liking their game videos” with “OMG I want to suck Tylers dick.” Scray, yareally, were all very… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Rollo I think most commercial PUA gurus know that the average guy is never going to be going out much more than 8, maybe 10 hours per week to experiment with Game so there’ll always be a chance to say he’s not applying himself enough when it doesn’t play out as well as he’d expected. I’m not advocating for commercial PU gurus, but I’m out 3-4 nights a week, tho only 2 are at bars. I see bangable girls (6+) at the meetup venues (for local listings, see meetup.com) the other two nights and I chat with them and flirt… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg The industry standard for rimfire shelf life is only 6 months anyway. Huh. Someone forgot to inform my supply of .22. Because the stuff I bought back in 2000 still works just as well as it ever did. Not to mention the .22 RNL that my grandpa had, it still shoots ok as well. I’m just peeved I didn’t get more stuff at fire sale prices from the Y2K weenies. Frankly I’ve been reluctant to buy .22 rimfire since 2008 because with the production lines running full tilt all the time, I fret a bit about quality control. When… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . I’m out 3-4 nights a week . . .”

Dancers and musicians are like that as a side effect of their missions.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

kfg 5 minutes of laser focused practice beats 4 hours of farting around in a brain fog. Elmer Keith was the big guru of the .44 Magnum. I’ve never been a fan of that caliber. But I have read some of Keith’s writings in order to learn. It was interesting to find out how much he shot, and how often. Something like one cylinder, 6 rounds, every few weeks. That was it. This was the man who hit a deer running away at a ridiculous distance with a .44 Mag. Round count is one way to measure practice, but after… Read more »

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@Anonymous & @Palleon – Having *a* look is DEFINITELY 30%+ of the equation. If a guy looks like a doofus – e.g., wearing socks with sandals, he’s an instant ‘no’ to chicks the moment they see him. In that case, it’s close to 100% looks-determinant. I get that there are plenty of urban skinny emo-looking dudes that pull plenty of ass, but they have *a look* that many chicks will spread their legs for. This is not controversial, and if you read my entire comment – just taking steps to become the best version of yourself is putting that 30-50%… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Irony – right around 13:00 in the vid, the black man starts talking down RooshV for his new attitude.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@Joe K “Looks are at least 30-50% of the equation – and this will never change.” Looks are irrelevant if you don’t wait for IOIs. (Looks will get you IOIs and then you have to not fuck up.) If the girl is 8+, you have to be charming as well because those girls have guys with looks and money as BETA ORBITERS!!! If you are short/ugly and new to a bar and see a hottie, you can’t wait for a fucking IOI because you’ll be waiting til the cows come home…you have to cold approach her without an IOI (likely… Read more »

Pellaeon
Pellaeon
5 years ago

@Rollo

Cue to 9:20. This is the deliberate mischaracterization of TRP that RSD is now promoting in their effort to front a power of positive thinking sales pitch.

Yeah, I didn’t really watch too much of it, but it seems like a pretty shitty video..

@AR

Sigh. Why cain’t we all jus’ git along?

Human nature and in/out group preferences.

@Mersonia

Who is the blond? She’s cute.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Joe K

Having *a* look is DEFINITELY 30%+ of the equation. If a guy looks like a doofus – e.g., wearing socks with sandals, he’s an instant ‘no’ to chicks the moment they see him.

Ok, how do you know this is true? Have you tested it? How did you test it?
Man, you are making me miss YaReally, because if anyone has gone out wearing socks with sandals, it’s him – and if he hasn’t, he’d try it.

You are hobbling yourself needlessly with this.

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@theasdgamer – “there are plenty of short, ugly men who have success, so we know that Game CAN work.” I see this almost never, and I am out at some bar (usually) or club (less often) probably 29 out of 30 nights in a month, in literally all corners of the world save for the African continent. Caveat – yes I do see guys on dates with escorts. Everybody knows they’re a paid arrangement. (As someone who has gone to pros myself, why the hell a guy who was obviously going to be instantly recognized as being out with an… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

@kfg

” . . . I’m out 3-4 nights a week . . .”
Dancers and musicians are like that as a side effect of their missions.

I typically only dance 2 nights a week. As I wrote, the other two nights are meetups.

Joe K
Joe K
5 years ago

@AR How do I know this? Because it’s field tested. Not the socks with sandals thing. Specifically – 10-12 years ago when I was starting out as an awkward virgin, I wore stupid busy-patterned untucked dress shirts. I went to clubs in a major US city with the sole mission of approaching every woman I could. I stuck to the plan and went through with it, probably 2-3 nights a week for several months, and I got rejected by all but the ugliest chicks at those clubs. My lack of confidence was one thing – but I was grabbing my… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
5 years ago

Ok, I have to move on to a different task so I’ll be away from wifi, but right aroudn 16:00 in the vid the false dichotomy just breaks down to crap. First of all, RSD is just stupid for dragging out Madonna / Whore (“White Knight” vs. “Red pill calls all women sluts”) as if it’s something new. I laughed out loud at that part, it’s so lame. Really, men, you really want to confuse Red Pill with militant MGTOW? Now, more seriously, describing the Red Pill as hating women & not wanting to be around them is simply false.… Read more »

637
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: