Game and Circumstance

circumstance

“Don’t be mad E. It’s not our fault you were born without the sport fucking gene, come on.”

 

At the start of July, 2011 (a month before I began this blog in earnest) I took a backpacking trip through the Great Smokey Mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina. This was due to my desire to unplug, go off the grid and get back into the real face-to-face world. It was only for 10 days but well worth burning 10 days of PTO for.

It was an educational experience meeting people, most of whom have very little online presence beyond using Twitter or FaceBook occasionally. I didn’t have cell service for most of the hike. The people I met along the way, and I’ll put this politely, were “salt of the earth” people. Some were other hikers, others were people who lived and worked in the few surrounding communities. It was good to reaffirm my ability to survive on my own and realize that there is a whole world of Men out there who live well, far beyond the influence of “men” who’ve never mowed their own lawns, much less lived by their own wit in the country. Guys who build muscle by working outdoors, not in a gym. I met beautiful women who worked in small diners you’ll never hear of. I fished rivers and streams, for dinner some nights, and I saw fireflies for the first time (I grew up in southern California, it’s a novelty).

At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame. We’re far too insulated by the Buffers of technology. Even the more belligerent rednecks I encountered still preferred to text their girlfriends and came off as pussified for doing so.

I guess what I’ve come to realize is that we tend to view what we ‘know’ about men and women from the experiences we have reported to us from all over the world on blogs, forums, the manosphere  – and I still endorse the purpose of it’s unwritten mission – however, this trip reaffirmed for me that there is no substitute for real interaction. Game will work equally well with the cute blonde serving coffee in a rural diner as it would with the club girl in NYC. Both are equally given to the same feminine fundamentals we’ve untangled about women in the ‘sphere for over a decade, but the one we tend to use as a female archetype is the typical club girl for our examples. Daisy Duke is still subject to hypergamy, she just applies it differently.

I’m not turning into Roosh, but I’m considering burning a couple months doing the entire Appalachian trail all the way to Maine.

In my day to day life I deal with a lot of rich men. Every patron or boss, every general manager I’ve dealt with for the past 15 years has been a millionaire. The primary owner of one of my liquor brand is that many times over. None of the “business friends” I shoot golf with have weeded their own lawns or installed a radiator in 20+ years. When I was on the trail I thought about how ridiculous it would be to see a guy like that or some PUA guru having to dig his own toilet and take a dump in the woods, or hoist his pack in a tree so the damn bears don’t eat the only food he’s got for the next 3 days. These guys are insulated.

I want to run, and fight, and fuck, as well as I deal with the ‘civilized’ things I do. Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.

Game and Circumstance

I start off with this today because this experience wasn’t just humbling, but it also taught me that what I experience day to day isn’t at all what a majority of men experience. My past, my N count, my 18 year marriage, and what I do professionally sets me apart in a way that I sometimes don’t appreciate or take into consideration when I’m advising men.

It’s also very humbling and affirming when I receive emails or comments from men living in countries I’ve only seen in pictures who nevertheless share a common male experience that reinforces many of the things I write about – but even within that commonality, I have to remember, my circumstance is not theirs.

I walk through a casino almost every day now and I see the same people. Not the fun glamour you see in commercials or ads about Las Vegas (that’s usually night promos), but the real people, the overweight, housekeeping and table crew, the geriatric spending their savings and social security on a hope they’ll win something significant, the desperate and the people just looking for distraction.

I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?” While I do believe that Game is universally beneficial on many levels (primarily between the sexes, but not exclusively) there’s a point where that improvement is going to be limited by a guy’s circumstance, where he is in life and what he’s made of it so far. It’s a manosphere cliché now, but most men aren’t ready for the red pill. The red pill awareness is simply too much for them to accept within the context of their circumstances.

That circumstance isn’t based on age or a particular demographic, but Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.

Not Just Sex

Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.

That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.

Game is, or should be, for the everyman.

“He only wants me for sex” or “I need to be sure he’s interested in me and not just sex” are the admonishments of women who really have no introspective interest in how a majority of men really approach becoming intimate with women. Oh it makes for a good rationale when women finally “want to get things right” with a provider, but even the excuse belies a lack of how most men organize their lives to accommodate women’s schedules of mating.

Mostly to their detriment, the vast majority of men follow a deductive,but anti-seductive, Beta Game plan of comfort, identification, familiarity and patience with women in the hopes that what they hear women tell them is the way to their intimacy will eventually pan out for them. Their Beta Game plan is in fact to prove they “aren’t just in it for the sex” in order to get to a point of having sex with a particular woman.

I always find it ironic when men tell me that their deductive plan for getting after it with a woman is to prove he’s not actually trying to get after it with her. However, this is what most men’s Game amounts to; deductively attempting to move into a long term monogamy based on what women, saturated in a presumption of gender equalism, tell him he ought to expect from himself in order to align himself with her intimate interest.

I could use the term “appeasement”, but that’s not what most men want to call it. Most men call it being a better man (for her), better than “other guys” who wont align themselves accordingly. It becomes their point of pride in fact.

Male Long Term Security

Most men, average men – and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense – want a form of security.

Most men are designed, perhaps bred, to be necessitous. To be sure , men need to be constant performers, constant qualifiers, in order to mitigate hypergamy. In the past, and to an extent now, this performance simply became a part of who he was as a man and didn’t require a constant effort, but increasingly, as male feminization has spread, men have been made to be necessitous of security.

I would say that desire for long term security differs significantly from women’s Beta Bucks side of hypergamy need since the drive to secure provisioning is an innate part of women’s firmware. The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards – and ultimately avoid feminine rejection.

In today’s feminine-centric social order, men are ceaselessly bombarded with masculine ridicule, ceaselessly reminded of their inadequacies, and endlessly conditioned to question and doubt any notion of how masculinity should be defined – in fact ridicule is the first response for any man attempting to objectively define it.

It’s this doubt, this constant consideration of his own adequacy to meet the shifting nature of women’s hypergamic drive, from which stems this need for security. The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.

The average man will look for, or create his own rationales to salve this necessitousness. He’ll create his own ego in the image of what he thinks he embodies best as being “Alpha” or he’ll adopt the easy doctrines of equalism which tell him women and men are fundamentally the same rational actors and convince himself he’s not subject to the capricious whims of feminine hypergamy because men and women are more ‘evolved’ than that– but that nagging doubt will manifest when the right circumstances and right opportunities present themselves.

Changing Your Programming

I mention in the book that I am not a motivational speaker, I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be the self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not Rollo Tomassi’s success stories, but their own success stories.

That said, let me add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will, they can be masters of their circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.

With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.

You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.

You can unplug.

You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
trackback

[…] Game and Circumstance […]

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

“The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards” Yes, emphasis on “a woman” namely one woman. It is only when he can only have one woman that he needs such security/assurance, and the fact that he requires reassurance turns her off. It’s totally a Catch22 (unless she’s a unicorn who doesn’t exploit his need), and, I think, the only solution is him gaining other certainty that he could have other women. His abundance mentality is going to magically cure her turn-off, but it will cut back… Read more »

givingabundance
Guest

Men make the big money to mitigate the hypergamy and in so doing, naturally spend their big money on luxuries which are pampering in nature. Men who are poor (but could be rich as well) can travel the world, stay in shitty hostels or camp outside, eschew the attempt to mitigate hypergamy by refusing to work themselves to the corporate bone, and live a far more masculine existence even though that may paradoxically include things like washing their own laundry (in a river, than hanging it to dry over an oak tree branch). Something to consider.

Twenties Mentor (@twentiesmentor)
Guest

“a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.”

That quote really struck home for me. Fantastic post.

Dan Moore
Guest
Dan Moore
Offline

Hey! I got me a noir card last time I was in Vegas. If you’re mLife I bet I could swing an enjoyable shift or two for you…

Seriously though, I want to rip this post off and republish it (with links). Is that OK?

Bluepillprofessor
Guest
Bluepillprofessor
Offline

BIG agreement on the perception of Game as being all about PUA/ONS. Game is CRITICAL in LTR’s. Everybody knows if you want to get married you need game but it is not always acknowledged that you need Game in order to STAY married (happily). “Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.” AHAHAHAH! I have imagined a guy like Mystery slowing down the numbers game and attending services at the Iron Temple a couple times a week and think it would have turned out much… Read more »

charles
Guest
charles
Offline

I find this variability within men perfectly OK. It is imperative for our survivor. It is clear that this pattern is following us for long time. It has been so with ancient Greeks and although I am not scholar I will bet that it was repeated in all other cultures. There is always washer and washee. We ought not to be surprise by that. Today many think that we are loosing something which we have always had. I contest this. What is happening t are only periodical swings albeit once they take on modern form they may seem to be… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

I like to think it is the small things, that systems like game help within a relationship. My wife, like most women, has the tendency to rank projects, things, etc. by what she is “looking” at at the very moment. At 8 AM, raining, the gutters need fixing. At 9 AM, sunny, the windows need washing, etc. This use to drive me insane. How could a person not make a plan and stay with it til done? Now that I have had a bit of a peek under the hood, I just ignore the latest, “must do now” and, calmly… Read more »

stuttie
Guest
stuttie
Offline

Awesome post as per usual Rollo

narec
Guest
narec
Offline

I’m 100% red pill and I don’t agree with this idea of “game”. You go on and on about hypergamy, how women all just want to share the hottest guys (and I agree), then you say “game” is our salvation, like acting alpha or being “confident” (another misleading term) will manipulate girls. News flash: they don’t give a shit They want guys who are TALL, with handsome faces – strong jaws, thin eyes, symmetry, masculine features. Everything behavioral comes after this and is given a lot of lee-way Just like guys want beautiful girls, with softer jaw lines, large eyes… Read more »

Carlos
Guest
Carlos
Offline

I have been married for 15 years. I have been red pill aware for about one year. During the previous 14 years, I tried allowing my wife to be the dominant force in the marriage, and I tried having us both be equal. Needless to say, neither attempt was successful. Her behavior was exactly as you described in your blog and your book. Since I assumed a dominant position in the household, we get along much better. She still shit tests me, but not as often as before and she belittles and hectors me much, much less. Please keep up… Read more »

LiveFearless
Guest

Changing Your Programming

A. Must. Do.

How? Think. What ‘jobs’ have the word ‘Programming’ in the title?

LiveFearless
Guest

What is Programming?

How?

Why?

steverholland71
Guest

@ narec (or troll?) – are you serious? lol

trackback

[…] Game and Circumstance (The Rational Male) […]

holisticgame
Guest

“The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.” This is CRUCIAL. It might even be the tidiest argument for the necessity of Game that I’ve seen. From the time (~3rd grade) I became aware of sociosexual dynamics, the message has always been clear: You do not measure up. Women don’t want you, and if they do, it’s pure luck. The advice… Read more »

LiveFearless
Guest

@DeNihilist At 8 AM, raining, the gutters need fixing. At 9 AM, sunny, the windows need washing… priorities Yes… Do what matters most. > six months in inpatient care has focused me even more on ‘priorities’ (what really matters). From now on, professionals will be hired to fix (and clean) all gutters, to wash windows and all other tasks that otherwise would mean spending time on them. People choose to do those ‘to do items’ for a living. I’ll hire them. (When I am able to again) I’d rather be spend the currency of time on watersports or traveling (together… Read more »

Tim
Guest
Tim
Offline

See: Fight Club; unplug from the grid, unplug from materialism, and you can be ur own master

agent p
Guest
agent p
Offline

I have to disagree with Narec, Game saved my marriage once I took the red pill and I actually began to understand what the different buttons and levers do to her and our relationship. Over 18 months I have learned to turn it up or down and how to apply it from the bedroom to the kitchen and beyond. Sure they all want the tall dark handsome guy, but nailing the attitude is a force multiplier for sure and can take a passably attractive guy and turn him into someone who will make her do things neither of you thought… Read more »

Tenno
Guest
Tenno
Offline

Some musings.

Only after a man deliberately and emphatically rejects the red pill, by word or action, can he be considered a true, determined beta. Otherwise he is either simply in the dark, an unwitting beta-by-misleading; or a reluctant beta-by-incapacity, when he has trouble adapting game to his situation. Neither of the last two are bona fide betas to me.

I don’t think that true, determined betas are of any concern. It’s their choice. Also, for chumps the first order of business is to get in the right section of the internet or a bookstore. It’s the third kind that’s most troubling.

vinay3543
Guest
vinay3543
Offline

A large part of why so many men (mainly the 80%+ who are betas) make so many inadequate moves with women, whether in early interaction, dating and short or long term relationship phase, is because they “overrate” their target woman. A level of game certainly helps, but it does not come close to the benefits that could be produced if they placed a woman’s value in its true position. The first stage mental approach, with the assistance of eradicating the nervous thoughts of approach anxiety and outcome dependence, allows a man to not be drowned in a bubble that makes… Read more »

narec
Guest
narec
Offline

@agent p: lol at “goes eat pray love on me”. Something tells me that’s another rage inducing hypergamous feminist movie like Blue Valentine Anyway, I understand you’re trying to keep yourself competitive in the dating market, but flirting is one thing (women enjoy the attention). Penis in vagina is another. Guess which one confirms if she finds you attractive ? My point is, the dating market is a meat market, first and foremost. Women make the decision whether you’re an option or not within half a second of “sizing up” your physical appearance, before you have a chance to run… Read more »

LucasBly
Guest
LucasBly
Offline

Finish book 2 first, in case you get eaten by a bear.

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@agent p re: “To do it properly however I found I have to do it all the time, including outside the confines of my relationship with her.”

Also I have found, after trying like the dickens to switch it on, it’s hard to switch it off when I need to.

Dunderhead
Guest
Dunderhead
Offline

@narec… That’s bullshit and self defeating. I’m considered a good looking guy, but spit NO game at all until finding Rollo, CH, others.

Further handicapped with an almost aspie inability to read social cues.

Consequently was invisible to women. Looks just didn’t matter. Check out CH latest post on just this subject.

Have plenty of friends who are not good looking and score premium tail …

It was only when I learned game and began to understand women’s scripts that I suddenly got their attention. Long way to go still, but I’m now slowly becoming visible rather than invisible.

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@narec, you’re the one projecting male rationales onto females. Females respond viscerally to dominant (actually, brutish) behaviors from males, including males that are visually unappealing.

totenhenchen
Guest
totenhenchen
Offline

@narec, it’s like he knew you were coming:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/08/rationalizing-fearfulness/

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

OT but of scientific interest. There are olfactory-type chemoreceptors in many areas of the body not exposed to odorants. But recently attention has been paid to areas such as the skin that are exposed to odors.
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/vaop/naam/pdf/jid2014273a.pdf

One quibble I have with odor researchers is that they continue to focus on volatiles as the only odorants of interest. But I have some evidence that people, e.g. me, can detect nonvolatiles wafted on fumes,particulates,and droplets, and that this nonvolatile detection is important behaviorly.

agent p
Guest
agent p
Offline

@narec, yes Eat Pray Love is a book and subsequently a blockbuster chick flick movie about an archetypal mid-life crisis Western woman in a marriage who is not haaaaaaapy. she dumps her faithful Beta husband to have a failed affair, to then travel the world, to Eat, Pray, Love, e.g. to “find herself” and indulge her solipsistic fantasies of finding a better more tingle inducing relationship somewhere in the big beautiful world that she is undoubtedly deserving of. She subsequently ends up hooking up with some dweeb who is not ultimately any better than the guy she dumped in the… Read more »

narec
Guest
narec
Offline

@Dunderhead: I don’t know you, maybe you’re not as good-looking as you think, maybe you’re actually too pussy to pull the trigger with girls. But that’s not “game” as in the magical Jedi knowledge that it’s painted as Well i CERTAINLY know how to pull the trigger, and I can tell social cues.. often I point out to my good-looking friends when girls are checking them out.. i also know that I’m sexually invisible to girls because I have a beta face and aren’t tall .. Meanwhile I see how girls react to good looking guys, they go retarded around… Read more »

agent p
Guest
agent p
Offline

@narec
get over yourself and show some spine, you are not a double amputee and even if you were it wouldn’t always matter in the pooniverse, Sure looks matter, no question, but they are not the only thing by any stretch…..

please read: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/

John
Guest
John
Offline

The security thing is quite true. My first relationship I was more worried about meeting the expectations of the relationship than I should have been! I beat myself up even when my girlfriend never did.

It was like I had to prove I was good enough to live a life with her, not to her, but also to myself. Looking back, that type of thinking comes from deep insecurities. It is like my entire goal, was to fulfill her entire goal. Something conditioned by society, the Feminine Imperative.

agent p
Guest
agent p
Offline

Oh and I forgot this link, written about fitness, but applies to anything you have to get off your ass and actually do. You have made it far enough in your journey that you could find therationalmale.com, now be smart and continue on the journey, accept that you can positively affect the outcome of your life. Will you pull tens? Not likely, but even banging a five can be quite rewarding if you just came in from a few years the desert of celibacy and it certainly beats whacking it in front of a computer screen for the rest of… Read more »

agent p
Guest
agent p
Offline

Well i CERTAINLY know how to pull the trigger, and I can tell social cues.. often I point out to my good-looking friends when girls are checking them out.. i also know that I’m sexually invisible to girls because I have a beta face and aren’t tall .. Meanwhile I see how girls react to good looking guys, they go retarded around them, hang on every word, make excuses to get near them, make it easy for them .. So please don’t insult me by saying “looks don’t matter” when you haven’t suffered through the living hell of being an… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@narec, about 80% of men are physically unattractive to women. Yes, to bolster our success with women the surest path is to become physically more attractive. I’ll wait while you go do that. All done now? No? What’s taking you so long? Ryan Gosling took two full years off during the most productive time (at the time) of his career because he was convinced he wasn’t good looking enough. Of course, he was right. For two years he worked out for hours every day and bulked up and took diet and supplements religiously. This was his full-time job for two… Read more »

John Connor
Guest
John Connor
Offline

To Narec:

(Watch this Barbarossa youtube video link below for some clarity on the origins of “game” in black urban America and, the reason it surfaced there from the get-go. Not spitting game does not make a man any less masculine as some of us born with it just choose to go our own way and, not be pussy beggar simps).

A Visitor
Guest
A Visitor
Offline

Good post, Rollo. I’ve slowly been using game to improve relations as I can. Thanks again for reading the book. Being Christian and being a true believer in celibacy due to moral reasons, I apply what I can from game to real life. Do you have any recommendations beyond Dalrock’s place as far as Christian game? I read AG too. Thanks!

A Visitor
Guest
A Visitor
Offline

That should read thanks again for publishing the book, not reading it.

Beauty Is Truth
Guest
Beauty Is Truth
Offline

Narec goes a bit on the deep end here, but I agree with him, for the most part. See, here’s the thing. I’ve been in this game for 6 years and all of my experiences point to looks being what really releases the raw primal energy in women. As we all know here, you can’t negotiate true desire. That’s where looks really come into play. For a woman to give you her upmost raw desire, she has to find you visually appealing. That is all. The study, “Orgasm Wars” proved that it didn’t matter how long a couple was together… Read more »

Lion
Guest
Lion
Offline

“At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame.”

Yes. I agree, and especially in the context of getting back into nature and experiencing the natural rhythms of the human experience: without electricity or any modern conveniences.

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

All, I like it that looks are coming into focus. It is obvious how important they are. That truth should not be discounted. On trophies someone wrote: “Charles Darwin, a man ahead of his time much like the manosphere, also covers this in his book: “The Descent of Man”.He states, “Both sexes, if the females as well as the males were permitted to exert any choice, would choose their partners not for mental charms, or property, or social position, but almost solely from external appearance.” And Rollo has it right looks without Game or a requisite degree of social intelligence, social… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

And the natural question is then –
How can I dramatically improve my looks (musculatity as look’s #1 component in the male) as fast as possible

narec
Guest
narec
Offline

jj12: we can argue about who is projecting which genders attraction motivators on the other, but think about it logically: both parties want the best genes possisble. Genes are shown by physical apperance and cannot be “faked” (well, at least before modern times). Women invest more into reproduction than men, so their genetic standards are hundreds of times higher. An ugly man who pretends to be dominant will never flip the same switches as a 6’3 guy with a male model face. totenhenchen: -i rationalize my views just as any human, however i am not a keyboad warrior. i have… Read more »

A Visitor
Guest
A Visitor
Offline

Rollo,

I usually don’t advertise it but I’m actually Catholic. Ergo, pointing me to a Catholic red pill site is great. Many thanks!

deti
Guest
deti
Offline

Re: Marriage game and married men: A married man needs to have Game, Godly masculinity, or whatever else you want to call it. To me, what it amounts to is this: You have to know, deep down in your head, heart and gut, that if your wife ever pulls the plug on your marriage and decides to EPL you, you will still be OK. Get that into your head. YOU WILL STILL BE OK even if she leaves you. If you have some social intelligence and ability to relate to people, you will be able to replace her if you… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

No offense intended for the men who are sexually successful with women without the greater advantage of having good-looks, but I’ve returned to college when I was 26. With my sex drive deeply diminished thanks to the effects of porn and age, I was there taking the whole in of the female sexual strategy instead of being clouded by my hormones. I noticed that women are as visual as men are. More, really. I remember seeing the best-looking girls beta orbit the good-looking young men. I know of one guy, a higher Alpha. Really terrific guy with a great personality,… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

I forgot to mention that while there are many, many attractive women in college, there aren’t that many attractive women when your official years in college come to an end. Most women either get married to a rich Alpha during the peak of their sexual worth, or they very quick descend to a state of being ugly/average. Past the age of 25 there are only a handful of women who are worth a glance. And most of the women who are average without being obese are too bitter at having lost their looks, or at never having had a shot… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

”Granted, but you’re describing the men on the far end of a relative bell curve and you need to consider how any particular woman’s subjective SMV affects attraction.” Men who are average are on the far end of the curve. Studies have been done that show women’s sexual desires are triggered by higher than average height and facial good-looks. Most of the men who get messages from women on tinder/cupid are tall or good-looking. Many women have a ”only message me if you are at least 6 feet tall.” Regardless of how skinny, fat, or ugly the women might be.… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

”And by her reports only for 13 minute increments. I’m not sure I’d call that ‘lucky’.” I remember when she mentioned in one of her topics – that end up being deleted because she scarred yet again her ”I’m the queen bee that does nothing wrong” persona how she stopped wanting to have sex with her husband after the children were born(provider locked in, back to banging Alphas) and the dear husband had to threaten divorce for her to begin to put out again. Then again, by her own admission all of the random sex she had with Ivy league… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

Thank you for the Study. It’s downloaded.
Regarding Eliot Rodger,
” Eliot Rodger wasn’t a bad looking kid, nor did he lack wealth or affluent grooming. He lacked social intelligence and suffered mental illness as a result.”
I submit that he would have scored a lot from one simple change
– Getting a lot more muscular –
He had the money to pursue that goal in whatever way he wanted to.
That would have naturally changed his personslity to more confident and doninant snd it would mean sexual success

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

” Average men do get laid. At an extremely high price. The women they marry hate them, they very rarely get any, they are hated, and many are raising children who aren’t part of them.”
TRUTH

Steve H
Guest
Steve H
Offline

“I suspect most average men wouldn’t even be found near women if they could get sex a few times a month without having to become a lifelong slave to a woman who hates them, or to alimony or child-support.” Almost all US cities are full of marginally-attractive Backpage escorts who offer 100 dollar specials. In S. Florida – price goes down – 50 dollar specials for legitimate 7s and 8s. This might be harder to do in North Dakota or perhaps Vegas, but virtually everywhere else in the US a man can spend time with a new escort (or be… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

From Heartsie: ” A woman with a good body is art, but she is also a drug, stimulating instant desire in men that is like the human aesthetic sense distilled in raw form to its ancestral animal essence, whereby the object is not to admire, but to consume.Women can be stimulated to instant, wall-climbing desire as well, but it usually requires more… much more… than a muscular body. If you want to know what instant, insistent, existential female horniness looks like, go to high society parties and watch how they behave in the company of a famous or powerful man.”… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Thinking back and making a list of the 30 or so women I slept with before tying the knot, I can say that more then half of them approached me first, and initiated the sex. I found out years later through facebook, that in my youth, I was considered a “hottie” by most of my female classmates. Though socially I was quite fearful of rejection, so persued very little.

To think of how many more women I could have slept with if I only had a smidgen of game…….

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

Re Leo;

The difference is, is that even though he looks “shaggy”, he IS shagging a 22 yr old model. Sorry ladies, aint gonna see Gosseling with oprah for sex, though Mila’s mate use to bang that old cast away of Bruce’s, Demi.

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

Rollo dryly notes you’re “better off with Game and a good body than being a social retard with a nice face.” And it’s true, and if you disagree because of what you may say you think you’re observing, I’d argue that you’re almost entirely merely expressing your feewings. I started getting ignored by women at puberty, despite being quite the social person, exuberantly hyperactively extraverted, because of my dork face and build (think Jon Cryer; I’m of Italian descent btw). No amount of my (relative) fame and fortune ever helped, either. That lasted some 50 years, until I started incorporating… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Guest
Anonymous Reader
Offline

deti Get that into your head. YOU WILL STILL BE OK even if she leaves you. If you have some social intelligence and ability to relate to people, you will be able to replace her if you want to. I’m re-re-re-reading Frank Herbert’s novel Dune. Some of it is pretty dated in a 1960’s way. But some of it is still good. Deti is saying: kill your fear. Herbet put it this way in his science fiction novel: I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@Rollo, you’re barely 1 cm tall sitting down!

I’m trying to think of some way to kindly and gently disparage the idea that someone floated in this pool, that women have this copacetically functioning magic picker to which we as males must genetically kowtow to. In contrast, in reality, as far as I can tell women’s pickers are the brokenest thing about women.

New Yorker
Guest
New Yorker
Offline

The essence of Game is the destruction of personal fear. That absence of fear needs to permeate every part of your life from work to interpersonal relations to athletics, etc. One becomes a stronger, happier person when he is not afraid to live his life and looks at the world through an optimistic prism. As a nice side benefit, women quickly pick up on that confidence and want to be a part of your world. There is nothing more to it. Every day you make a commitment to be the best possible you. The rest follows afterward. Betatude is first… Read more »

DeNihilist
Guest
DeNihilist
Offline

There was empty guitar case game – http://www.mensfitness.com/life/entertainment/study-women-more-attracted-to-guys-who-play-guitar

Now we have 2 cello’s game – https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nkcm5cT9gGI

These 2 guys are huge! selling out around the world.

Napoleon
Guest
Napoleon
Offline

There’s some talk about height and it’s true, it’s the most important factor in the SMP. Even heartiste or one of his proprietors acknowledged how screwed short guys are in the SMP. He said this during approach week: “Manlets are universally repulsive to women worth seducing. On the abacus of eros, the more manlets there are, the more women will want to be sexually rescued by a turgidly impudent Heartiste.” The real kicker is how he said, “repulsive to women worth seducing”. Short guys can at-least date down or try to get with some girl at the same level of… Read more »

George Meeks
Guest
George Meeks
Offline

I am responding to the video John Conner provided above. Thank you John. The video narration clearly explains the entire dilemma at its most basic level. Everyone should listen to the narration very carefully and repeatedly until it is completely understood. This site, almost all comments herin and all similar sites, alpha-beta-PUA-bullshit, ect exists because males are frustrated by lack of adequate female sexual acceptance without caveats, hypergamy, etc. Males are encouraged to “unplug” from “the matrix”, man up, etc as a means to gain better access to female sexual acceptance. The character of “alpha” is defined as an innate… Read more »

Nathan
Guest
Nathan
Offline

In life, I have seen that one area of mastery will not compensate for an area of deficiency. Wealth will not compensate for poor esthetics. Aesthetics will not compensate for mild aspergers or social retardation Amazing social skills like that of a famous comedian or social movement organizer will not compensate for poor looks or lack of wealth in the long term. Rollo says, have looks, assets and game, but if you can only have one, have game. That is an empowering philosophy. Darwin would seem to argue that the most important area is looks. Life is more difficult for… Read more »

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker
Offline

Lots of self-defeating talk here. Yes, if you are short for a man that is a strike against you in terms of creating another obstacle to overcome. But all that means is that you need to counterbalance it in other areas — i.e, become very buff (that is independent of height), chiseled physically, cultivate charm/game, embrace mastery and outcome independence. You will vastly improve your performance with women as a result. Now, if you insist on comparing yourself to the taller, good looking men as your measuring stick, then you’re just being an ass. That’s like saying “If I’m not… Read more »

stuttie
Guest
stuttie
Offline

@Napoleon/Professor Von Hardwiggs/narec I’m 6’4″ and I can tell you that simply being tall does not mean you have top-shelf pussy lining up for you on a regular basis. I’ve have a reasonable ”pre-Game” notch count (50-60) for my age (42) as well as having been a slave/married from age 30-40. Add my height + 10 years solid gym work and that STILL does not guarantee a harem of HB8’s. Sure, I pulled some quality pussy from age 17- 29 but now in my 40’s, I need more than height to get the quality and quantity I require. It wasn’t… Read more »

water cannon boy
Guest
water cannon boy
Offline

Leo isn’t on any girls walls anymore. But those same girls would still get with him in a heartbeat.

stuttie
Guest
stuttie
Offline

one more thing I want to add. If you’re tall and reasonably good looking, you invariably get shit-tested harder and more often – which is a good thing if you know how to deal with those shit-tests. You WANT to be shit-tested. This (and approaching) was my sticking point. If I did muster up the courage to approach, I would usually fail every shit test known to man – in some cases badly (i.e. hold her handbag lol) and the target would loose attraction, give me the LJBF or I would give up. I was the tallest beta / AFC… Read more »

Dunderhead
Guest
Dunderhead
Offline

@napoleon… You’ve got Heartiste’s definition of manlet wrong. A manlet isn’t a short guy. It’s a male feminist (or feminized male) afraid of his masculinity.

“(aka kitchen bitches, sexual egalitarians, plush manlets)”

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/the-misery-of-the-househusband/

A short dude with game will out-score a tall kitchen bitch every time.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy
Offline

Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings. That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy,… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@stuttie, re: “You WANT to be shit-tested.”

Not me; I want not to be shit tested. I despise shit testing. I’ve come to the conclusion, which I also despise, that shit testing is an indicator of wishing to be treated poorly: an invitation from the woman to the man for him to act more brutal with her. Forget playful whatevers; she’s looking to be treated “like a human” i.e. at least as forceful a pushback as if a man demanded you hold his purse.

stuttie
Guest
stuttie
Offline

@jf12 – I didn’t say I ‘liked’ getting shit-tested, but my recent field-tested approaches, notches and failures tell me that women will shit-test you multiple times before they bang you. They have to. If they shit test you they are interested. Just about everything they ask/say up to when you get the bang is a shit test. They never make it easy. They want to see if/how you pass each and every one. Women will always shit test you – it’s like death and taxes, so the sooner you know how to dodge bullets the better.

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

@Professor Von Hardwiggs And even if it worked – come on. Isn’t it a bit silly to be pandering to women, jumping all their hoops only to see some guy who got lucky in the genetic game get all of the women without having to work for it? ””””””””’ jesus Christ dude you wrote a lot of shit to really say that but any dude has to work for it there are no dudes who don’t have to work for it even the movie stars you quote work their freaking asses off to get bitches so what the fuck are… Read more »

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

@rollo
I realize celebrities are a bad illustration, but Leo used to be every girl’s heartthrob after Titanic:”””””””””’

still is according to my girl all the chicks in jail were dreaming about him
she dreamt about me he he he

Exfernal
Guest
Exfernal
Offline

“Game is, or should be, for the everyman.”

Game is a force multiplier. Different returns for different folks. For those at the top of attractiveness-to-womanfolk pile Game is great to have, but they don’t need it as much as lower echelons anyway. For bottom feeders even top-notch Game doesn’t change much.

narec
Guest
narec
Offline

Napoleon: Sorry to hear about the dump.. Halo effect isn’t a “theory”, it’s proven by multiple studies http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect#Role_of_attractiveness It is the single driving force behind all human social interactions. You see the person, and you make a judgement of them based on appearance. It’s evolved from our more dangerous prehistoric past where language was limited and decisions on who to trust were based on quick assessments of facial features Anyway, so you’re at a party. A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. He mentions a quick anecdote. Everyone pays close attention. Everyone laughs at the right times. Everyone’s… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

”jesus Christ dude you wrote a lot of shit to really say that but any dude has to work for it there are no dudes who don’t have to work for it” ‘ I’ve never seen a good-looking men who also happens to be tall, work for it. My father was in the Air Force when he was young. He met some real Alpha males, Neil Armstrong types. One guy in particular. The guy was 6’4” with very masculine features and a masculine personality. He has over 20 children spread all over the world. None of those children has he… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

Narec, Alexander The Great was considered to be the most handsome man in Ancient Europe. He had a muscular build, a very handsome face and thick, curly golden hair. When he captured the royal Persian family, the mother of the deposed Persian Emperor approached Alexander’s companion and prostrated herself in front of him. She had two men in front of her. Alexander and Alexander’s best friend. Despite how good-looking Alexander was.. with Alexander’s natural ”game” and ”perfect Alpha male language.’ she assumed the taller man to be the conqueror of worlds. The halo effect is real. I payed attention to… Read more »

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

”Yes, if you are short for a man that is a strike against you in terms of creating another obstacle to overcome. But all that means is that you need to counterbalance it in other areas — i.e, become very buff (that is independent of height), chiseled physically, cultivate charm/game, embrace mastery and outcome independence. You will vastly improve your performance with women as a result.” Muscles is the red pill equivalent of the women’s knee-jerk reaction to how many men lack sexual success, to say that you need confidence. Not so. I’ve met many a real Alpha who lacked… Read more »

BC
Guest
BC
Offline

I’m going to echo Novaseeker:

Lots of self-defeating talk here.

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Guest
Professor Von Hardwiggs
Offline

Nothing wrong with being honest. Its insanity to assume one can get the sloppy seconds of Alpha men by trying to buff out our bodies or by learning how to be social dominant. Not every one of us the charisma of Winston Churchill(the funny thing is that Churchill was a good-looking Alpha in his youth) and it makes no sense for average and below average men to try to get with women in their own league because any woman – and I mean any woman – can acquire sex from men who are miles and miles out of their own… Read more »

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

Professor Von Hardwiggs I’ve never seen a good-looking men who also happens to be tall, work for it. My father was in the Air Force when he was young.””””””””’ like I said he worked for it ”””””””’Professor Von Hardwiggs He makes ends meet as a carpenter.”””””””” like I said he worked for it ”””””””’Professor Von Hardwiggs No offense bro, but the men who are genetically gifted don’t need to work for anything. Money is offered to them, sex with any woman they could possibly want is their kind of beer.””””””””” if that was true then ”””””””’Professor Von HardwiggsWomen’s biology is… Read more »

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

and not only that but the actors and shit can’t keep a chick from running their money over the coals
it takes more

gregg
Guest
gregg
Offline

@Professor Von Hardwiggs I have been on both sides of the fence, so I think I can add my two cents. As a young guy I have been considered “hot”…I had no problems with women. Beautifull women. Some men do not age well. It´s my case. I am in my late thirties now. Despite being successful attorney with 25 employees, confidence, knowledge, everything..I am nowhere near the success I enjoyed in my teens and twenties. I can still occasionally bed some beautifull women but I am nowhere near the level of success I enjoyed when I was just good looking… Read more »

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

@stuttiere I agree with this: “women will shit-test you multiple times before they bang you.” I agree with this: “Women will always shit test you – it’s like death and taxes” Therefore I disagree with this: “If they shit test you they are interested.” And similarly I disagree with this: “They never make it easy.” A shit-test is designed to spurn a man, to make him feel deflated, *because* she’s not interested. Women are so weird, however, that she may change into being interested within mere minutes. As soon as she becomes interested, the shit tests cease immediately, but only… Read more »

Urban Meyer
Guest
Urban Meyer
Offline

As a 5’8″ man, I will say that height is not everything, but being in top shape is very important. The confidence you get from having a six pack translates to lots of female attention. I received a lot of attention from girls in high school but didn’t know what to do with it. In college I started to figure it out. There’s a video by Tyler RSD that talks about how useless it is to compare yourself to others because there will always be someone taller, richer, stronger, better hair etc. Closing takes more than just looks, you have… Read more »

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

well I guess good if more guys can think like that lol @ gregg

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

Professor Von Hardwiggs
Tall + buff + Spartacus face = he can bang an 18 year victoria secret supermodel””””””’

highest paid Victoria secret model is Gisele Bundchen she is 33 years old
Adriana Lima age 33
Doutzen Kroes age 29
Alessandra Ambrosio age 33
Miranda Kerr age 31

so yea no 18 year old Victoria secret supermodels its where they go to die
he he he
for porn yea umm if that is your forte prob older but also anyone can fuck them incuding you don’t have to look good just have loot

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

wow they got current angels at 40 years old

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

36 year old current
yea I can see where your problem might be in basing your hottest chicks on Hollywood and such instead of real life
the pics ain’t really real teams of makeup people and all that

Novaseeker
Guest
Novaseeker
Offline

Muscles is the red pill equivalent of the women’s knee-jerk reaction to how many men lack sexual success, to say that you need confidence. Not so. I’ve met many a real Alpha who lacked self-esteem or confidence in getting laid for some odd reason and women still jumped them. With the same note said, I’ve traveled all over Europe. Met many younger and older men and I’ve seen more women and men than I can count stars in the sky and the amount of muscular men I’ve seen are only a handful. Muscles might work with some women. But most… Read more »

gunslingergregi
Guest
gunslingergregi
Offline

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Victoria%27s_Secret_models

check that reality if it Is accurate I guess

jf12
Guest
jf12
Offline

So why aren’t more men getting face surgery?

If I knew then what I knew now, I think I would have gotten facial bone structure surgery forty years ago to butch up my dork baby face. Except there never seems to have been a good time for it. Actually money was not a real issue, although perceived value is. Being now an old man, I realize time has a way of ruggedizing anyway.

1 2 3 4
%d bloggers like this: