Alpha-Beta Communication Modes

communication

I had a really good comment from Rites of Passage from Elooie I’ve been meaning to get back to for a while now:

This post has been here for about a week so this comment might get buried but I was wondering if it would be an interesting post for you to speak to the difference in how women communicate with men they find alpha and men who are their emotional dumpster. (Its been covered in aggregate by multiple posts but not specifically how women frame the conversation)

At my work, I am an expert in not only my field but in our company. Even our newly hired CFO made a comment about finally putting a face to the legend he had heard about (when we met).

Since becoming red pill aware and really beginning to actively observe men and women in the office, I have found that women come to me specifically for career advice, my expertise, leadership and my help to make things happen. They don’t complain, they don’t dump their emotions they don’t ask me how I feel other than to make sure I approve. This defer to leadership (as I call it) has been happening more and more recently (either from my continued awaking to RP or my ability to finally notice)

What made me think to bring this female communication between alpha (defer to leadership for help/decisions) and beta men (let me dump my feeling on you) was a co-worker I used to work with a lot looked out of sort and I made a joke about her being high.. and she almost emotionally broke down when she told me her brother recently died. She visibly choked it down and I changed the subject before she broke down. She was incredibly relieved. In a way, changing the subject gave her strength or at least a distraction. Since then she has tried to be more engaged with me and constantly asking for my approval of what she does. I find it interesting that blue pill men might have wanted to try and help by having her discuss her feelings or try to connect with her and talk about how awful he feels for her.

Another example is a girl I used to sleep with texted me after the election out of the blue about how distraught she was and how the world was going to end because Trump won. (She doesn’t know I prefer Trump to Hillary). In the ramblingly long text she even mentioned how angry and unstable her current boyfriend was over it. All I said back was, “Take a deep breath, its going to be fine.” From that point on she has been trying to re-engage me and always flirty. Its obvious to me she wasn’t looking for someone to have an emotional conversation with..(her distraught beta boyfriend could have handled that) she wanted someone to tell her she was freaking out and pull her back to earth.

Both of those situations in a blue pill world would have triggered the “lets explore how we feel” conversation, but really they didn’t want that.

I’ve written several essays about the difference in men and women’s communications priorities and the importance each sex places on particular aspects of communication. However, most of these simply outlined the dynamics. It’s no secret, even to Blue Pill men, that men and women communicate differently. Men place primary importance on the information or content of what is being communicated, while women put context, or how what’s being communicated makes them feel about the exchange as their primary importance.

This is actually one area of Red Pill awareness you’ll get the least amount of resistance from Blue Pill guys or the femosphere about. Women love to tell us how superior their communication skills are, or how they get so much more from sub-communications that men are largely ignorant of. The point of pride comes from the idea that women tend to communicate more “effectively” than men, because they utilizes non-verbal cues such as tone, emotion, and empathy whereas men tend to be more task-oriented, less talkative, and more isolated. Men have a more difficult time understanding emotions that are not explicitly verbalized, while women tend to intuit emotions and emotional cues. These differences explain why men and women sometimes have difficulty communicating and why men-to-men friendships look different from friendships among women.

The problem with all of this is that it presupposes that women’s communication is the ‘correct’ form while men’s is incorrect because it is more blunt and devoid of nuance. The measure of “effective” communication in a feminine-centric world is judged from a feminine-centric (emotional) metric, not how well information is transferred. There’s really nothing isolating about men’s capacity to communicate, it just doesn’t appeal to a social order that’s founded on what ought to be correct for the Feminine Imperative. As you might guess, a high importance is given to emotion and a capacity to emote in a feminine-primary social order. Thus, emotionalism becomes the benchmark for that order’s metric of “effective communication”.

I’m stressing this here because as western(izing) societies have effectively feminized men for the past 4-5 generations the majority of men (largely Beta) have adapted to learn, and default to, this context-first female form of communication. In spite of men’s neurological differences in communication, their Blue Pill conditioning teaches them that ‘effective’ communication is female, emotive, communication. Although they lack the hardware for it, men learn to alter their communication style to accommodate that of women’s because it is seen as a means to intimacy with women in feminine-primary society. Beta men, as part of Beta Game, are conditioned by the Blue Pill to reprogram themselves to identify with the feminine – a large part of that is learning to communicate as a woman communicates.

Boyfriends and Girlfriends

Women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you’re not fucking her, you’re her girlfriend.

I wrote that as part of my posts on intergender friendships. Women get upset by that quote because it’s unflattering, but true. Blue Pill guys get upset because they see themselves in it and then seek to rationalize how their situation with their ‘girl’ friends is different. But what they both rarely want to confront is that Beta men communicate with women like women. And conversely, women communicate with Beta men in the same mode of communication they are comfortable with when communicating with their same-sex girl friends.

Most Blue Pill / Beta men are largely oblivious to the fact that their communication’s methods and priorities have been conditioned to have them subconsciously default to a feminine-primary, context (feeling)-first form of communicating with women. This is so engrained in Beta men’s personalities that few are ever aware that they do so. It’s just ‘how they are’, and few if any ever give an afterthought to how they communicate with women as women. Many a Beta guy gets very hostile when they have this pointed out to them because it conflicts with their distorted Blue Pill-defined concept of masculinity. So, if you tell a Beta, ‘you communicate like a woman’ the conditioned response then is to question the security of the masculinity of the guy pointing it out and he goes back to feeling good about himself for being evolved enough to communicate correctly – as a woman.

It’s when guys unplug and become Red Pill aware that they begin to understand this dynamic. Most Beta men’s feminine-primary communication mode makes them subconsciously indistinguishable from women’s ‘girlfriends’. I mentioned this in some past essays on intergender friendships, but what happens is that as part of men’s Blue Pill conditioning that convinces them to adopt a personality of passivity, equalism, sensitivity and identifying themselves with the feminine, in most respects they become a woman’s same-sex girl friend. This feminization of the Beta is confirmed for them when that Beta communicates in the same mode as her best girl friends. The appearance might be male, but the hindbrain registers female for her.

This context-primary form of communication is the most common among men (largely Beta) today so it’s literally what women are accustomed to when they interact with men. They become used to being deferred to, used to being communicated with in her own mode. This then sets the baseline for what women expect from men’s communication – they expect him to communicate like a same-sex friend – so when that mode becomes taxed or a guy slips back into his blunt, low-nuance content driven mode it’s naturally an attraction. No doubt, that guy will get called out for being a ‘typical dude’ and shamed for his incorrect form, but it is attractive not only for being a break from the feminized communication patterns she’s used to, but also because it implies that he’s his own mental point of origin. It communicates that he is confident enough not to care about accommodating her form of communication (feminine-primary).

One reason Amused Mastery is so effective is because it forces a woman to communicate on male terms. Amused Mastery implies a man actually has a mastery above that of the woman he interacts with. When a man employs Amused Mastery it registers in a woman’s hindbrain through his unapologetic insistence on communicating with her on his communicative terms.

You’re Not Listening

Women’s biggest complaint about men with regard to communication is that they don’t listen. The common Red Pill observation about this that women only come up with that gripe when men wont do what she tells him to, and that it’s about a Frame grab. That’s certainly true, and especially evident in relationships where a woman presumes her Frame is the dominant one, however there’s a bit more to this. ‘Men don’t listen’ is also a conflict in communication modes. Since men’s communication mode centers on content and information, we tend to filter out the background noise – and most of the background noise that comes about from intergender communication comes from exactly the emotional chaff that women are so proud of in their ‘correct’ form of communicating. Men intensely listen to content, what they filter is unimportant non-content and usually this amounts to the contextual delivery of what’s being communicated.

However, women do filter for that emotiveness, so once again when a man does listen to feelings and identifies with women expressing them women’s hindbrains associate that with a feminine (or feminized) character. Ergo, the association is that Beta men are ‘listeners’, which ultimately is anti-seductive for any man wanting to develop a woman as a romantic prospect. And thus, you become her girl friend.

The Alpha & Beta Communication

So, to Elooie’s point, yes there are communicative differences in the ways women will relate to men they perceive as Alpha and Beta. As you may have guessed, how a woman communicates with you is a very strong indicator of her sexual market value estimate of you. Going back again to Amused Mastery, if you are perceived as an authority of something a woman’s communicative mode will often shift to a more content specific (male) form of interacting. This is particularly so when her need dictates she solve an immediate problem. Women with pressing real-world problems will often confuse men they perceive as Beta by deferring to their particular expertise on whatever it is they believe will solve that problem.

A lot of Beta computer guys know what I’m talking about. A woman communicates with them in her own feels-first contextual mode when it’s all solipsistically about her personal problems, but let her iPhone or laptop malfunction and then she shifts to content driven communication. She does this to solve a pressing problem by shifting the mode of interaction to deferring to him. He registers this and defaults back to his content-driven communication (with not a little bit of pride that she recognizes his convenient expertise). Once the problem is resolved, she goes back to her mode of communication (feels-first) and shames him for being a typical guy if he doesn’t adjust back to her communicative frame.

Another scenario is what Elooie describes. Women who already have an Alpha impression of you will often begin an exchange in what she expects will be your male-centered way of interacting. In PUA terms you might call this a preset buying temperature, but when a woman is attracted to you she is expecting you to communicate as she expects a man will communicate. In fact this is an excellent Alpha Tell if you have the skill to recognize it. In the early stages of interacting with a woman you will notice that playful banter is almost always performed in men’s communicative mode. This is the mode an attracted woman is hoping you’ll insist on maintaining. In fact, I’d argue that most shit tests a woman delivers (at least the active shit tests) are issued in the hopes that you will pass them from within a male-centered communicative mode.

That’s not to say that men’s content-based communication leaves no room for wit or nuance – nothing entertains a woman more than a guy who ‘Just Gets It‘ but also knows how to communicate that he does get it. This is the intergender thrust, parry, riposte of Game. If a man defaults to being Mr. Sensitivity, self-conscious of his every response and reflexively communicates in a female-centered mode from the outset, he gets relegated to Beta status; only useful for convenient chores and emotional tampon duties.

I think it’s a really good exercise for newly Red Pill aware men to put on their Red Pill Lenses and really listen and watch how women interact with men and each other. Make mental notes about how you think a woman interprets the SMV of men as well as the women she communicates with. Watch for the shift in communication modes, see if you can predict the shift when a woman talks with a man you think is Beta and then with a man you think she perceives as Alpha. It’s really not that hard to guess. In fact, we’re really preprogrammed to acknowledge it even in a Blue Pill sense, but with Red Pill awareness it’s educational and entertaining.

Once you get a good understanding of how this communicative interplay shifts according to personality, need, environment and attraction you’ll get a better grasp of the message a woman’s medium is telling you personally. Then, learn to pull your head out of a female mode of communicating and insist on her coming into your mode of communicating. This will be an essential part of establishing your dominant Frame.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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NationalistsUnited🐸 (@WNsUnited)
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You guys are the cucks when it comes to women. Pathetic reading this drivel.

NationalistsUnited🐸 (@WNsUnited)
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You guys have yourselves wrapped around the axel and wasting your lives on this PUA shit. You focus on how to seduce $50 hoes, while you could be getting a leg up on your careers or accomplishing something important. Western Civilization is crumbling under your feet…. this is breathtakingly stupid.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Well don’t just stand there!! Get a broom and a dustpan for Christ’s sake!!!

Anonymous Reader
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You guys have yourselves wrapped around the axel and wasting your lives on this PUA shit. You focus on how to seduce $50 hoes, while you could be getting a leg up on your careers or accomplishing something important. Western Civilization is crumbling under your feet…. this is breathtakingly stupid.

Dude, poolside is where it’s at. Axel told me so. It must be true.

Boxcar
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@insanitybytes22 The car is broken down, Rollo is looking under the hood, and you are giving him grief for scratching the paint job. Look at this from the perspective of the conventional man, who has no reason to be bitter with women, who wants to fall in love, raise a family, etc. We can do everything “right,” but then lose it all (well, at least half our children’s lives, half our paycheck and all of our wife), just because she wasn’t ‘feeling it.’ And without getting too personal, I have seen this happen with good men and good women. It… Read more »

Boxcar
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Rollo, thanks for the link…. as everyone says, an impressive body of work.

I thought of you when I saw a feminist on cable news recently complain about “Baby it’s Cold Outside” for it’s “problematic ideas of consent … there’s no negotiation.”

Insanity, you do not seem to be someone who thinks that desire can be “negotiated.” Well, this is literally what feminists are telling men to do. Of course even most women don’t take feminists seriously. But it would be foolish to deny that this has real cultural influence.

SFC Ton
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Initially, post divorce, I was surprised how the age difference thing worked out. At the time I was living in Hawaii and chalked it up to being heavily influenced by the Orientals and Polynesians Turns out its the natrual order of things. So yes, good looking 50 year old chicks are pairing up with 60+ year old men. Friend of mines grandpaw is around 70, he dates 50 year old gals and byou dating I mean he’s crushing 50 year old bitches like it’s his full time job. He has horse money, so maybe that throws off the equation? A… Read more »

rugby11
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rugby11
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Politics and memory
http://wp.me/p6SXrP-jhy

SFC Ton
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LOL I am way into earth sheltered homes. No roofers etc, just mow the grass growing on your house

Won’t pull the trigger on that anytime soon. Sunk costs for sure.

SFC Ton
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I’ve not yet meet the man who has no case to be bitter toward women

theasdgamer
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@Boxcar

marriage just gets better and better.

He does more and more chores, earns more and more money, is more and more compliant and pathetic…

NationalistsUnited🐸 (@WNsUnited)
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“Men ultimately have to ask the question — can I build a life with a woman? Women have a reasonably good idea of what it takes to make men happy. Why shouldn’t we aspire to the same? Because of political correctness? This is about people’s lives here. This is guys trying to piece together a functional life and you are giving us shit for not declaring noble sentiments of love.” You are going to get taken to the cleaners and/or become a completely subservient bitch in marriage because you are so scared of divorce. Even then, for her divorce is… Read more »

Novaseeker
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So yes, good looking 50 year old chicks are pairing up with 60+ year old men. Yes — correct. In *that* market they are in high demand. They aren’t in high demand for *relationships* with top shape men who are 50 or younger, because those guys are in the market for 45 and younger women. This all works ok as long as the woman knows what her market is, but unfortunately that’s often not the case. Just off the top of my head, a woman of around 60 comes to mind — she’s at work and we’re in a large… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Nova

Anyway, she says that she prefers to date men who are under 50, and absolutely no-one older than 55, “because they seem old to me, and I don’t feel old, and they will just hold me back …. I don’t want to have to take care of some old guy”,

This woman is attempting to provide her own validation. I’m sure she’s aware of market realities on some level, but would rather maintain her façade than have a real relationship.

insanitybytes22
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“The car is broken down, Rollo is looking under the hood, and you are giving him grief for scratching the paint job.”

I’m giving him grief for his nihilism and bitterness, for building an entire praxeology around it, and for misleading men into believing sex is a good substitute for Salvation. Tomassi is a piss poor mechanic and he’s not scratching the paint, he’s kicking dents in the car. He could be good,he could be so much better, but he’s trapped in his own ego investments and misery just loves company.

Lost Patrol
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Of course stories like this don’t help: https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/people-think-this-mom-and-her-daughters-are-sisters-and-we-can-see-why-200455054.html .

I’m pretty sure the top photo depicts the Replicants that the sex-robot industry is trying for right now. Could be a test run.

SFC Ton
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Regarding Nova ‘s link

Anyone who thinks that lady is their sister is has piss poor observation skills and/ or not a custom to evaluating women.

She is a good looking woman but skin quality, her hands, legs….. even her boob job says old school stripper boobs.

Novaseeker
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Anyone who thinks that lady is their sister is has piss poor observation skills and/ or not a custom to evaluating women.

She is a good looking woman but skin quality, her hands, legs….. even her boob job says old school stripper boobs.

Yep, it only takes a few seconds to figure out the obvious age difference. But my point is that articles like that one can encourage average looking women to think they look younger and hotter than they actually do.

SFC Ton
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Legit

insanitybytes22
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Do you think I’m a hater, Tomassi? Hatred and love are just the flip sides of one another. It’s never our hatred you fear, it’s our indifference, being rendered completely invisible in the eyes of women. Men always fear insignificance, not hatred.

Men are not losers, not even the ‘spherians, perpetually trapped in their own little circle jerk.

Be well, Tomassi. I’ll leave you be and go kick someone else for a while.

Forge the Sky
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Well, we’ve gone around this debate with SJF a few times before so I’ll throw him a bone.

@AR

What do you think the ‘sunk costs fallacy’ is for?

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

Chump No More
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@Rollo
“That quote wasn’t for you Grammy”

Female solipsism at it’s ‘finest’.

While Insanity does provide a few educational moments for the newly unplugged, the benefit/cost ratio is too unfavorable. She’s an annoyance at best and an unnecessary/unproductive distraction at worst.

Add me to the “Ban her (again)” list.

ollieoxenfree1
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My mother use to tell us stories about her life growing up. Her life before she had children. Some of the things she would relate were traumatic experiences she’d overcome. Once my mother had to keep me home from school for a doctor’s appointment. After that appointment we wandered around for a bit before making our way home. I don’t recall what prompted it, but we started talking about her past. I remember asking questions to better understand the person she had been and what motivated her to do the things she’d done. She would answer me up to a… Read more »

Boxcar
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@insanity “Tomassi is a piss poor mechanic…” But you had just admitted (at least I thought you had) that Rollo’s stuff works. There are a whole lot of good-intentioned men who have failed relationships, because they ignored the biological (“goo,” as you called it earlier). If you were a man, you would be exactly the guy who hates women for this (like a lot of guys do, when they figure this out). Of course it’s not women’s fault that they are attracted to certain things. But if you only look at the surface, and take everything at face value, then… Read more »

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Bites
it’s our indifference, being rendered completely invisible in the eyes of women. Men always fear insignificance, not hatred.

Lurkers, take note of how she always projects her own fears. Women do that. It’s where the “lonely old man” trope comes from; women’s own fears of being old and alone.

Women always project. That’s why how they talk to you matters: don’t be the guy they talk with like a girlfriend or their gay man friend.

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Forge
What do you think the ‘sunk costs fallacy’ is for?

What kind of question is that?

What do you think the No True Scotsman fallacy is for?
What do you think the Argumentum ad Hominem fallacy is for?
What is any fallacy for?


It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

You’re not communicating. Use more words if you need to.

Chump No More
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@Anon Reader
“Lurkers, take note of how she always projects her own fears. Women do that. It’s where the “lonely old man” trope comes from; women’s own fears of being old and alone.”

Exactly. It’s just another fem-centric emotional narrative that shames blue-pilled men to “man-up”.

https://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/

RP aware men understand that “manning up” means living deeply within your Frame, prioritizing and provisioning for yourself first, and respecting your most precious resource (time), sharing only with those merit it.

https://therationalmale.com/2014/09/01/the-myth-of-the-good-guy/

Novaseeker
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But you had just admitted (at least I thought you had) that Rollo’s stuff works. There are a whole lot of good-intentioned men who have failed relationships, because they ignored the biological (“goo,” as you called it earlier). If you were a man, you would be exactly the guy who hates women for this (like a lot of guys do, when they figure this out). Of course it’s not women’s fault that they are attracted to certain things. But if you only look at the surface, and take everything at face value, then you can easily end up with nothing… Read more »

anon
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“Anyone who thinks that lady is their sister is has piss poor observation skills and/ or not a custom to evaluating women.”

Lol I was thinking similar. smile
That and she deserves a craptastic mom of the decade nomination (only a nomination because the competition there is a lot higher than the “over-the-hill-synthetic-hooker-looks-say-I’m-still-in-my-twenties-REALLY!” competition, which is also unbelievably steep).

Anonymous Reader
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@Nova 11:27 AM

Cosign. Cosign every single word.

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Novaseeker on Bites: “magic wand Christianity”, such that if you follow Christ, everything will work with women the way God wants it to work for you Lurkers take note, this is exactly how a whole lot of churchgoing girls go about “getting married” – they do nothing but exist and expect a man at the right moment, and not just any man, either. The man they “deserve”, who fits their 418 bullet point list of requirements. It is a bit sad to watch. Even when they are obviously Apha widows, it’s still a bit sad to watch. No surprise that… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“What kind of question is that?” A Socratic one. But fine. The sunken cost fallacy exists for (I think) 3 reasons: 1) humans feel anxiety when presented with changing circumstances; and 2) they feel pleasure at a sense of accomplishing something; and 3) they feel contentment when problems in their awareness are all addressed and everything is ‘put away’ so to speak. These are all important survival tactics. They are so important to survival, in fact, that it’s not uncommon for them to overshoot their usefulness – much like appetite in an environment of abundance. And so we start talking… Read more »

EhIntellect
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which may mean you end up empty-handed, if that’s God’s will for you ….

If I had a nickel every time my churchy friends ask God for guidance re: the most mundane reasons.

Recent absurd instance: “I prayed hard and asked God direction about buying the Harley. The motorcycle was still there that next week! Turns out it was the right thing to do after all.”

Truly, a sign from God!. LOL.

insanitybytes22
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“There are a whole lot of good-intentioned men who have failed relationships, because they ignored the biological (“goo,” as you called it earlier). If you were a man, you would be exactly the guy who hates women for this (like a lot of guys do, when they figure this out). Of course it’s not women’s fault that they are attracted to certain things. But if you only look at the surface, and take everything at face value, then you can easily end up with nothing but broken relationships and bitterness.” This is true, Boxcar! So how come you aren’t out… Read more »

anon
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Forge the Sky: ““What kind of question is that?” A Socratic one. But fine. The sunken cost fallacy exists for (I think) 3 reasons: 1) humans feel anxiety when presented with changing circumstances; and 2) they feel pleasure at a sense of accomplishing something; and 3) they feel contentment when problems in their awareness are all addressed and everything is ‘put away’ so to speak. These are all important survival tactics.” Yes. Thank you for this response. The sunk cost fallacy is a fallacy under certain conditions, but not all conditions. Like most things in life (and particularly life as… Read more »

anon
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Thought you said you were leaving, IB?

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Forge A Socratic one. You need to practice on that before trying it again. But fine. The sunken cost fallacy exists for (I think) 3 reasons: 1) humans feel anxiety when presented with changing circumstances; and 2) they feel pleasure at a sense of accomplishing something; and 3) they feel contentment when problems in their awareness are all addressed and everything is ‘put away’ so to speak. Another name for sunk cost fallacy is “gamblers ruin”. Stroll through any casino with open eyes and you can see it at work. In real estate, it’s the super expensive kitchen remodel that… Read more »

EhIntellect
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Jesus, Joseph and Mary…this ain’t about poon. (Sigh)

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Rollo
AR, you should read Dalrock’s last post

The one about the missionary woman in China who demanded a husband from God?
It’s great. Funny thing is, the missionary in question was in China nearly 100 years ago, but the same foolish behavior is totally common today.

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Bites
What’s wrong is not treating men as if they are full human beings mind, body, and spirit…

Oh, yeah, but there’s nothing wrong with “converting a man to a bad smell in the attic”, right dearie?

Feminists. Delusional or liars? You make the call.

theasdgamer
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@AR

Lurkers, take note of how she always projects her own fears.

Yeah, betas being invisible to women is one thing. Being afraid of BECOMING invisible is not a Red Pill idea. More like women to be afraid of being ignored as they age. Projection indeed.

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asdgamer More like women to be afraid of being ignored as they age In fact there’s plenty of evidence that women over 50 are invisible to men of the same age and younger. We can see this from time to time in the popular press when some aging was-beauty suddenly discovers she can walk right past a construction site in yoga pants and not get a single whistle or cat-call, such a mystery. Bonus points for the aging feminists who raged against being “objectivised” who have now become invisible to any man under 60 and suddenly miss that action they… Read more »

theasdgamer
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so what you wind up with is bitterness,anger,perpetual hatred of women, what I call the ‘spherian circle jerk.

IB isn’t sexually satisfied, so she cums here to get her rocks off, fantasizing about spherian pron starz wanking. lol

What IB doesn’t get is that most men who take the Red Pill eventually move out of the anger phase into the self-improvement phase.

For IB, we must think of women like they are men with tits, because Equalism. And if we don’t go along with the FI and Feminism, then we hatez wimmenz.

insanitybytes22
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“That’s probably part of Bites bitterness, and her “you’ll all be ignored by women!” screech; she’s ignored by men and doesn’t like it.” Not at all. Men seldom ignore me. Actually, I can’t think of one whoever has. IB could be 70, broke, and overweight….and there would still be a man somewhere who wants me. That’s really what’s at the root of your bitterness, the biological truth of that injustice. To connect with a man really all I have to do is walk into a room and make eye contact. It’s not like that for men at all, and so… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“All that said, I still can’t figure out what your point is. Are you trying to push the notion that some pretty lies are worth believing, no matter what the cost?” No, I’m steelmanning an argument for devotion in the face of (from an outside perspective) superior alternate prospects. Basically, I’m spitballing about whether or not the sense of devotion, continuity, and past expenditure of effort might validate staying with a woman who is objectively inferior to your current prospects. So long as the circumstance and the woman in question are satisfactory, of course, no nightmare scenarios of shrieking she-orcs… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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…the biological truth of that injustice…

…cuts both ways. Not all men have the power of animal magnetism. But those that do are regarded as being masters, while women – the many who do have that magnetism – are regarded as being merely precious, a thing to be humored and protected.

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Forge
No, I’m steelmanning an argument for devotion in the face of (from an outside perspective) superior alternate prospects.

Ok. Agreed.

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Bites
To connect with a man really all I have to do is walk into a room and make eye contact.

While he says to himself, “What’s that smell?”…

Fred Flange, Threads-jacker
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Don’t mean this as a thread-jack and maybe it’s its own topic on some other post, or some other board. Some folk here and elsewhere (as in the famous Fox News meme “some say”) posit with a little too much glee what societal collapse might look like. (Looking at you, Caleb Jones and Aaron Clarey). They chortle how most of us will all be Soylent Green. Meanwhile they’re in fat city hiding in their mountain compounds with their M80, onsite oil refinery and Matt Damon (TM) greenhouse potato farm. With John Goodman hitting on the cute chick to help him… Read more »

Boxcar
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@Nova American Protestantism deeply informs secular American thought, which basically looks like: “be true to oneself and the rest will follow.” You can see the transition with thinkers like Thoreau and Emerson and draw a straight line from them to the flower children. The thinking permeates the beliefs of native-born Americans, including myself (I say that as a non-churchgoing Catholic). But I get what you are saying about the FI — women want men to “just get it.” And it makes sense — the more artifice is involved in “being a man” the more they have to question whether he… Read more »

SJF
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Forge: “No, I’m steelmanning an argument for devotion in the face of (from an outside perspective) superior alternate prospects.” AR: “Ok. Agreed.” If I’m biased in the back and forth, I have to remind you that I’m still running my own little unicorn shop at home. And I am an Egoist. Funny aside, yesterday, my 51 y.o. wife went grocery shopping. Later after returning she proudly announced that some guy came up to, or cruised the same aisle and saw her a second time and did Krauser impression (or so I’m inventing also he probably looked like Elliot Roger too)… Read more »

othergrain
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“Not at all. Men seldom ignore me. Actually, I can’t think of one whoever has. IB could be 70, broke, and overweight….and there would still be a man somewhere who wants me.” Pics or it didn’t happen. Send nudes. The term “projection” certainly gets thrown around the manosphere quite a bit, but I think k it’s entirely appropriate in your case. Fear of rejection: being rejected is part of being a man. From the first time little Johnny gets picked last for capture the flag, he knows rejection, and he knows the only way to avoid it is to get… Read more »

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Boxcar to Rollo
But I get what you are saying about the FI — women want men to “just get it.” And it makes sense — the more artifice is involved in “being a man” the more they have to question whether he really is a man.

If you have not read this 4+ year old posting by Rollo, you should do so ASAP.

https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

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Bites
IB could be 70, broke, and overweight….and there would still be a man somewhere who wants me.

Dearie, everyone knows what sluts you feminists are. It was obvious back in the 1960’s, when you were a teenager already putting out for the entire football team. That’s just not news.

Novaseeker
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But the idea of cultivating masculinity is disparaged far more than it should be. We do not judge women who cultivate femininity, even when they go to extremes. (Suggesting that a woman is dressing too provocatively, for example, has become problematic.) But meanwhile, men are often expected to *totally* abandon their sexual strategy. With “zoning,” for example, we care not supposed to approach women who are working. Box — Well, as Rollo has written many times, sexual strategy is zero sum — for one sex to win, the other has to lose. Feminism has, for the most part, been closely… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Why does IB come over here? To save us all from being ignored by women. I wish that she’d give us the Silent Treatment ™.

Truth Train
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This world is going down the tube.

Boxcar
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@insanity – I somehow missed your comment to me: “This is true, Boxcar! So how come you aren’t out teaching men and placing it all in the context of some values, some virtues, addressing the fact that men are actually whole human beings with souls?” It’s telling that you want *me* to be the teacher here. Because you know that there are not real teachers for men, who are also going to agree with your every moral sentiment. You yourself admit that Rollo is on to something here — that this stuff works. A man would be foolish to ignore… Read more »

SJF
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“This world is going down the tube.” You are a little slow on the uptake to that realization, aren’t you? What are you going to do about it? Humans have coping strategies. But at the end of the week, Adapting to your field/game is paramount. It’s a built in feature of your neuroplastic brain function. The Red Queen hypothesis is an evolutionary hypothesis which proposes that organisms must constantly adapt, evolve, and proliferate not merely to gain reproductive advantage, but also simply to survive while pitted against ever-evolving opposing organisms in an ever-changing environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Queen_hypothesis You have to run and… Read more »

Boxcar
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@Anon, yea that’s a great essay by Rollo.

@Nova It’s not in women’s interests when Feminists discourage them from acting within their feminine nature (even in the most basic way, of looking cute and having guys approach them). A woman mentioned this in a recent comments section, and everyone treated her like “Oh gawd, not another woman playing victim.” But she had a point.

Boxcar
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On women being afraid of invisibility… My gym does the good progressive thing, and gives women their own workout rooms, with their own equipment, supposedly to escape the Male Gaze, etc. I asked a female friend of mine, “What’s with this, are women really afraid of men looking at them.” “No no,” she said, “it’s more like being afraid of NOT being looked at.”

SJF
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Alpha asshole Dad. When did guys become such pussies?

Skip to 10:27

Yollo Comanche
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@Boxcar “It’s telling that you want *me* to be the teacher here. Because you know that there are not real teachers for men, who are also going to agree with your every moral sentiment.” Haven’t you heard? It’s up to YOU and the rest of us phaggots to help her and women like her get a better beta, ummm uggg errrr… I mean. It’s up to us grown, hip, funny, caring, understanding, responsible adults(tm) to spread the words of the Fthaer(Juses, I can’t spell, lol) and make “gentlemen” out of the new generation. Known gentlemen: Eliot Roger Paul Rubens Anders… Read more »

SJF
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“It’s telling that you want *me* to be the teacher here. Because you know that there are not real teachers for men, who are also going to agree with your every moral sentiment. You yourself admit that Rollo is on to something here — that this stuff works. A man would be foolish to ignore the truth that’s here, because he disagrees with or is offended by some part.” The red pill is praxeology. Insanity’s spam is ideology. The red pill is amoral. It is up to any man to decide his path, his morals. Amoral does not imply immoral.… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@SJF

Is real power subjective in your opinion or is it strictly dollar earned and cup-size slapped? I hate to say it but I guess I could use another opinion about it now that I don’t feel like such a pussy asking for advice.

SJF
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@ Yollo For all intents and purposes Real Power as it relates to Red Pill should be trade-marked by Rollo Tomassi. It is the antithesis of nihilism and bitterness. My use of it is Rollo’s in this context: https://therationalmale.com/2011/12/16/truth-to-power/ Articles of Power The term Power has a lot of misapplied connotations to it. When we think of Powerful people, we think of influence, wealth, prestige, status and the ability to have others do our bidding – all of these are not Power. And as much as we’d like to convince ourselves that women are attracted to this Power, this is… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@SJF

A ok so it’s NEITHER. It’s a directive that informs one’s actions and grows stronger because it actually gets better the more you work on it unlike other people. And then ends up affecting them.

Thank you for that. Reading that again reminds me of exactly why I’m doing what I’m doing. It’s so easy to forget I’m on the right path pull up the weeds and enjoying lucking out along the way.

SJF
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“I just don’t see the nihilism and bitterness, or the feeding of it here. That’s me, I just don’t see it. I totally see she wants it to be so as a feminine tactic of speech.”

I didn’t mean to use feminine as an adjective in referring to the InsaneGranny22 because that would imply: “having qualities or appearance traditionally associated with women, especially delicacy and prettiness..

I meant it more of a noun implying “the female sex or gender”. Umm, Sorry? there for the faux pas.

daalavidago
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Hey guys,

It seems there has been a lack of alpha characters in films lately (no surprises there) so it’s particularly difficult watching films that reek of blue pill/feminine imperatives.

However, I would highly recommend you all watch this film, The Great Beauty. It’s an Italian film but there are always subtitles for you. The protagonist is alpha and a great study for Amused Mastery and frame control.

Here’s a clip from the movie where he shuts down a supposed feminist. Enjoy.

SFC Ton
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A pussy for asking for advice?

Fuck that bullshit!

None of us were born knowing a damn thing but how to root around for a tit and suckle at a nipple.

A lack of honest masculine mentorship is major factor for the criss men find themselves in

SFC Ton
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Sovereignty is your ability to control your own life

Power is your ability to dominate the world around you.. Your environment, other men, women etc

Chump No More
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@SJF “I just don’t see the nihilism and bitterness, or the feeding of it here. That’s me, I just don’t see it. I totally see she wants it to be so as a feminine tactic of speech.” From the newly unplugged, there’s a measure of it here. If you want to see it in all it’s glory, go to r/TRP or mgtow.com. For those on the other side, embracing their epiphany… nope, nada. The majority of it is discussion on how to navigate the current landscape as a RP-aware man. The “bitterness, nihilism, and hate” is (again) just FI-fueled trope… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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Thank you Ton.

Yollo Comanche
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To save the church you’ll have to destroy it. Plenty of “Cypher” types in the Churchianity racket.

EhIntellect
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IB reminds me of Carrie Nation. Carrie was and wielded a battleaxe and ultimately failed as a person, spiritual leader.

“All Nations Welcome But Carrie” becoming a bar-room staple.

Sick in mind and body, she collapsed during a speech….

rugby11
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Rand H.
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Rand H.
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I’ve done some reading and quite a bit of thinking that last 4-5 days or so. It took some time, but I can see where I beta’d so badly in situations with women. I was raised wrong. I was raised to believe if you empathize and communicate with women like women, that’s your ticket. Really after reading this article, I see the complete fallacy in all of that. I was being friend zoned so much that I began to adopt female ambiguity. If they didn’t know what I wanted how can I get shut down, if they end up with… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Damn Rand, I don’t want to kick a man when he is down but you get challenged by those guys because your frame is almost there but not just yet.

A tweener in old school boxing lingo

You backed him down like he was a bitch, which is bad ass but if your frame was a tad stronger it wouldn’t have gotten to that point.

Won’t be long before that shit doesn’t happen to you anymore.

cheupez
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Men like ogling at 70 year old fat women?

Errr…no. Not true.

I want to believe that there was a time when women were women, not the kind of blood thirsty harridans with stinking corpses in their attic that we see in some places today.

Feminine women make men want to be men…and they will make men be men without saying a word.

It is ironic that the few women who deserve to demand valor and virtue of men usually don’t demand it. It is usually the morally bankrupt, hostile and aggressive ogresses who demands this of men.

Boxcar
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Hey Rand, check out some of Obama’s interviews. And I don’t just say that because he is a black man, who has made a career out of not scaring white people. But he has a genuine alpha manner, but in a low key and friendly way. The interviewer asks him a question, and he effortlessly flips it to his frame… try to forget that he is President and instead pretend that he is just some guy you met at work. You would be really impressed with the man. He commands a conversation, but with a lite touch and a few… Read more »

Chump No More
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Rand H., If you haven’t yet, read all of Rollo’s Year One posts. Then read them again. Very important to internalize the basics before moving on in your red-pill education to Year Two, Three, etc. What you’ve come to understand now, as Rollo often says, is that ‘Alpha’ is a mindset not a demographic. An Alpha is a man establishing his Frame of self-prioritization with his wants, needs, aspirations, and passions as is his Mental Point of Origin. To understand why you were not successful with those women, read Rollo’s “The Myth of the ‘Good’ Guy”: https://therationalmale.com/2014/09/01/the-myth-of-the-good-guy/ Read the whole… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Obama? Alpha? Okkkkkkkkkkkkk……………………..

Sentient
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RE Obama No one will consciously think “now there’s a real alpha,

Now this I agree with…

LOL

kfg
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When we are talking classical interactions between men, this: “I’m like OK we fight the police show up I get arrested and I don’t know why I’m fighting other than self defense and who the fuck this is again? So to me, this whole situation is stupid. Beyond stupid.” . . . is alpha. Ya ever see two guys walk past each other on the street and obviously act like they don’t notice each other? That’s two alphas making sure they don’t give each other cause for a fight for no reason that even the winner takes a loss on.… Read more »

Sentient
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Dalaavidago – great scene. Intrigued.

kfg
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“http://i.imgur.com/k9lqZ2Y.png”

Even his fender has “I’m a pansy, just punch me” face.

SJF
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@Rand H. That’s some pickle you got your mindset into over the years. Seems as though you made yourself averse to basic masculinity and in tune with femininity (beta game). Ironically, a return to ganging up with the kind of guys that you were taught to hate most of your adult life, might not be a bad idea. Red pill and Game are designed to be amoral. Some of the more masculine kinda guys (and alpha attractive to women) are exactly those drug dealers, gang members and thugs. They would be more alpha in general (but not necessarily like Wilson… Read more »

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Rollo Grammy has always refused to read my essays. It’s much easier for her to skim through them for the verbs and adjectives that offend her FI-informed religious conviction and respond to whatever she wants to make of them in order to get her catharsis back in check. She’s got her ideology. Her mind is made up, don’t bother her with contrary facts. Anything to do with the FI ties to her 2nd stage feminism, and it is emotional in nature. Since she did not reason herself into the position, ain’t no way to reason her out of it. This… Read more »

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EhIntellect
IB reminds me of Carrie Nation. Carrie was and wielded a battleaxe hatchet and ultimately failed as a person, spiritual leader.

There are simularities. But I suspect Nation was more energetic.
Interesting that Carrie Nation’s mother and daughter both wound up in mental institutions.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Carrie_Nation

Yollo Comanche
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On Carrie Nation; Humongous and ugly. Bad combo for a woman.

pigglywiggly900
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From my personal experience, I can attest that a women gets wet and wants you the most when – 1) You don’t really text much or respond to her communicative needs to the dot; 2) You don’t need her to the same extent she needs you and make it clear that if she wants x, y or z, that cannot be given and that is the end of the relationship (she usually wants commitment or for you to spend more time with her away from work or study); 3) You have access to a lot of other women who could… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@piggly You have access to a lot of other women who could potentially date you but you are honourable and don’t engage in any cheating AND there is widespread social proof of your integrity. This really makes the girl stay on the edge since she is constantly trying to please you and not lose you to some other woman BECAUSE you are the PRIZE; I can agree in part…”You have access to a lot of other women who could potentially date you. This really makes the girl stay on the edge since she is constantly trying to please you and… Read more »

Blaximus
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Whether married, single, in a ltr or monogamous relationship or whatever, guys should always chat up women in order to stay in practice and keep a few on the line. It’s up to you how far you take the ” chatting up ” part. It’s not necessary to go out of your way to make sure your woman observes this, but she should be able to see that other women are/could be attracted to you. It’s important to not get tangled up with any woman who forbids your even talking to another woman. That’s a kind of ” beta isolation”… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@Blax

Mrs. Gamer only attempts to forbid me from talking to women who aren’t preapproved by her…church women are Ok, as are women who are her friends…basically, women who aren’t a threat to her. I don’t take her shit storms seriously any more.

Chump No More
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@piggly “You have access to a lot of other women who could potentially date you but you are honourable and don’t engage in any cheating AND there is widespread social proof of your integrity. This really makes the girl stay on the edge since she is constantly trying to please you and not lose you to some other woman BECAUSE you are the PRIZE” I agree with a small chunks of this but I also smell the feminine imperative lurking in this statement, due to some ‘nice guy’, white knight moralizing. Define honorable. Define integrity, because I’m doubtful your definition… Read more »

cheupez
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I also disagree with the “honourable dont engage in cheating and proof of inte…” Women dont want what they say they want, and they dont even know it. A woman knows for a fact that you are fucking other women, she knows that there is not a chance in hell you can marry her or even have a LTR with her, she still pulls you to some dark spot in the city where there are no snoopy cops at night and fuck your brains out (where do these women even learn about these spots?), then she shit tests you with… Read more »

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