Deep Conversion

conversion

About four years ago Nick Krauser dropped a quick-hit post on his blog called Deep Conversion. I made a mental note in my head about this concept back then because, in spite of the brevity of it, I really thought Nick was on to something much more significant. The direction of my recent discussions both on this blog and a few other forums I read got me thinking about Nick’s observations.

I had an old reader (who want’s me to believe he’s a new reader) dig back through my archives and reheat an old debate about conflating my post about women’s concept of love with, “women are incapable of love – at all.” Over the five years that this blog’s been online I’ve gone to great lengths to define my position on the differing concepts of love either gender holds, and what influences the origins of love for either gender. I wont do a remedial post to reassert my points on this here. If you’re new reader and unfamiliar with that expansive series of posts I’ll refer you the Love category on my side bar links. However, to restate the premise for today’s post so everything is clear:

Iron Rule of Tomassi #6
Women are utterly incapable of loving a man in the way that a man expects to be loved.

In its simplicity this speaks volumes about about the condition of Men. It accurately expresses a pervasive nihilism that Men must either confront and accept, or be driven insane in denial for the rest of their lives when they fail to come to terms with the disillusionment.

Women are incapable of loving men in a way that a man idealizes is possible, in a way he thinks she should be capable of.

In the same respect that women cannot appreciate the sacrifices men are expected to make in order to facilitate their imperatives, women can’t actualize how a man would have himself loved by her. It is not the natural state of women, and the moment he attempts to explain his ideal love, that’s the point at which his idealization becomes her obligation. Our girlfriends, our wives, daughters and even our mothers are all incapable of this idealized love. As nice as it would be to relax, trust and be vulnerable, upfront, rational and open, the great abyss is still the lack of an ability for women to love Men as Men would like them to.

That bolded part there was always emphasized for a very important reason – to avoid the misperception in men that women are entirely incapable of love, and to make a distinction about men’s Blue Pill hope that a woman could love him according to his idealistic concept of love. As I said, there is an expansive series on my ideas about this, and it requires an (I believe rewarding) investment of time and comprehension in understanding them. Sorry, but there is no TL;DR version here.

When I wrote this, and during my deliberating it, I fully expected to get this most common response I get from men still stinging from a more cynical Red Pill awakening. And that is the want to believe that women’s Hypergamy prevents them from ever feeling a “genuine” love or a genuine desire for men beyond what their most immediate opportunistic need may be according to their sexual strategy – short term breeding or long term security. Generally, it’s newly unplugged guys who want to accuse me of not thinking it all the way through because I need some hopeful rationale to justify my 20-year marriage, or they think I’ve never considered Briffault’s Law.

Concepts & Expectations

I expected all of this when I wrote my early essays on men and women’s differing concepts of love. And while I’ve covered the idea of love being a complementary arrangement between men and women each holding differing concepts in prior essays, one thing I haven’t explored is what Nick calls the “Deep Conversion” a woman goes through and what she feels for a man with whom she genuinely falls in love with.

Nick refers to this process as a kind of ‘soul surrender’ in which a woman recognizes a Man’s inherent value to both her short term sexual, and long term security needs. From her perception, this guy represents her Hypergamous ideal. Such is his sexual market value in relation to her own that it puts all but the most deeply rooted doubts of his quality to rest for her and opens her to associating him with an emotional state.

I should also point out that this emotional state needn’t always be a positive association; just that the association he represents is an ideal situation her hindbrain interprets as Hypergamously optimal. If that dynamic seems like a recipe for potential abuse you’re not too far from the mark. This conversion comes as a result of a woman’s perception of her Hypergamous need and her own SMV in comparison to what she believes that man’s  SMV is in relation. Shaking a woman out of the devotion she has with an abusive husband/boyfriend is really shaking her out of the perception that he represents her Hypergamous ideal.

That optimal state is also qualified by her own self-perception of her sexual market value, and again prioritized by her most necessitous needs for her phase of maturity. However, given all these variables, that man’s perceived value to her Hypergamy is always valued as higher than her own. Hypergamy never seeks its own level, but always looks for a better-than deserved SMV comparison. In terms of SMV ratios-to-attachment Deep Conversion takes place somewhere between a 2:1 to 3:1 variance.

Most guys are simply incapable of inspiring this kind of total soul surrender and devotion in a women. Most women never get to feel it and instead must get off on Deep Conversion Lite through sugar-rush books like 50 Shades of Grey. It’s the difference between spinning plates with fuck buddies and having a genuine harem where all your girls are exclusive to you. The women aren’t aligning with you out of cold calculation or temporary strung-out groupie lust, the connection runs far far deeper and feels wholesome to both of you.

This was an excellent observation on Nick’s part, however, I think it’s important to consider this bit in terms of why most men are incapable of instilling a Deep Conversion state in women. The first reason is that most men (being Beta) already presume that any woman who would find them suitable for a monogamous commitment must already feel this sense of Deep Conversion otherwise they’d never agree to that commitment. This is part of the Blue Pill conditioning for Beta men – any girl who says “yes” to him must necessarily see him as her Hypergamous ideal. Most men lack the Red Pill awareness that women regularly make long term relationship decisions based on security needs, not because that guy represents her Hypergamous ideal.

Women would rather cry over an asshole than be saddled with a guy who bores them to tears. That doesn’t sell very well with Blue Pill men raised on Disney dreams, but women readily get into LTRs where the Beta they pair with is no comparison to the Alpha she’s widowed from; for whom she had a Deep Conversion with. And as Nick says, this is when they look to manufacture their own indignation and the excitement they lack in cheap (but safe) substitutes.

Another reason most men never experience this is because, due their Blue Pill conditioning, never give themselves permission to become the conventionally masculine men with a dominance that women need in order to feel this conversion for him. Most Blue Pill men have been taught a default deference to women. Theirs is one of a ‘Nice’, passive sensitivity to a woman’s perceived wants, rather than a dominant knowing of her need which is born from a lifetime of learning to place his mental point of origin on the whims of women.

This may be my own interpretation, but I would also argue that both a woman’s evolved psychological filtering (testing) of a man’s Hypergamous qualifications and her socialized sense of self (ego) contribute to a woman resisting this Deep Conversion for a man. As a lot of men in the Married Red Pill and DeadBedroom subredd forums will attest, it’s entirely possible to spend your life with a woman who will never feel this conversion with a man.

Deep Conversion

Done correctly deep conversion is the most satisfying experience possible between a man and a woman. So long as you keep the elements in place, it has no natural time limit. I had my ex-wife in this state for eight of the nine years we were together (losing it only when I lost my mojo) and I’ve had four girlfriends in the past two years in the same position. I’ve got a few more on the boil now. It’s really not very hard to do if you have the following core competencies in place:

  1. An unshakeably strong frame. You are special, you know you’re special, and your masculinity is stratospheric compared to the chumps around you.
  2. Cheerful misogyny. You love women but don’t take them seriously. This is more than just the attraction phase teasing. You genuinely believe women are more like dogs or children, meaning they are a delight when well-lead and a nightmare when left ill-disciplined without a pack leader. It’s empathetic but not weak or equalist.
  3. Direction. Your life must be a straight line in a Deida-esque manner. Whether it’s your music, philosophy, career, fitness your life contains several arrows pointing the same direction… towards building the archetype of a fully developed man. If you are one-dimensional the girl will hold back.
  4. Sexual mastery. Understand that women crave dominance above all else in the bedroom. Give her the kind of sex that penetrates her soul. This isn’t high-fitness sport sex and G-spot finding. Those men will keep a woman around as her sexual provider, the guy she goes to when she wants a good fucking, the bedroom equivalent of a qualifying beta chump. A sexual master rocks a girl psychologically so even a half-assed knee trembler in a public toilet has her dreaming for weeks afterwards. The girl dreams of pleasing him, not him pleasing her.

All four elements increase with age if you live your life correctly. I don’t want to write too much about it and certainly the book will never be released. Just be aware that it has it’s own ego traps, its own risks…. but it is possible. When you’re tired of the notch-carousel you might want to look into it.

Much of what Nick is outlining here is Red Pill 101 and I’d also add that Roissy’s original 16 Commandments of Poon would fill out this list more completely. What I’m exploring here, however, is the concept of how this Deep Conversion fits into the framework of men and women’s individualized concepts of love. On the one hand I have men who are critics tell me I’m in error because women’s opportunistic concept of love doesn’t meet their criteria for what love ought to be between a man and a woman – a mutually shared, unconsciously agreed upon, concept that aligns with men’s idealistic (love for love’s sake) concept.

Yet still, they don’t disagree with my assessment that women’s concept of love is rooted in optimizing their innate Hypergamy and manifests as an beneficent opportunism (beneficent in terms of quality control for the human race, not necessarily for men). This is where the conflict starts. If a male-idealistic concept of love is the correct one, and women lack a capacity to understand, appreciate or engage in that concept in a genuine, organic fashion then women entirely lack the capacity for love as men would define it. This is the deductive logic that tears men up when I explain men and women’s differing concepts of love. Their definition has to be the correct one, and if it is then women cannot love men. For guys reeling from the initial hopelessness that their Blue Pill world was always an exploitative fantasy, it’s hard for them to accept that their concept of love is only subjectively correct for them.

Blue Pill Idealism

Much of this hopelessness stems from the all-is-equal mentality that the Blue Pill sells us when we’re being raised by the ‘Village’ of pop-culture. Equalism is the religion of the Feminine Imperative, so Blue Pill men are conditioned to believe that men and women, being co-equal, co-rational agents, would necessarily share a common concept of love. As with everything egalitarian, that equalism outright denies any innate differences physically or psychologically that would separate men and women or make them adversarial in sexual strategy or purpose in life. This premise, of course, is deftly twisted by the Feminine Imperative to make feminine-primary sexual strategies and women’s concept of love, the socially correct expressions of ‘equalism’.

But therein lies men’s conflict. The same influences that convince men their idealistic concept of love is the mutually shared one are also the influences that convince men that satisfying women’s socio-sexual imperatives ought to be their life’s priority and their mental point of origin if they ever hope to achieve that idealized love state. Take this Blue Pill path to that idealistic state away from men, and you get very despondent guys who don’t believe women have a capacity to feel actual love for them. It all becomes jumping through hoops to create a feeling of love in women whose criteria for a love that originates in their opportunistic concept they must constantly qualify for.

Women critics of this differing love concepts dynamic, unsurprisingly, personalize every experience they have, their friends have or their family ever had by referring to examples of their own selfless acts of devotion to a certain man. It’s always a story about how they gave everything to a (often unappreciative, unreciprocating) man they felt some undying idealistic love for themselves, and how dare I impugn their sincerity in it?

And again, I’ll add that the only way they came to this idealistic love was through a Deep Conversion they had with a man who satisfied their Hypergamous opportunism long before they were ever inspired to those selfless acts of devotion and sacrifice. For every Alpha Widow woman who ever gave herself over to that conversion and surrendered her soul to a guy who never reciprocated it, there are a hundred Beta men who will never inspire that degree of devotion in the wives who settled on marrying them. Statistically, 80% of men (Betas) will never inspire the Deep Conversion that 10-20% of men women feel it for did.

The Red Pill Conversion

When I wrote The Love Experience I was asked to elaborate on a quote I’d made about men and women both having the capacity to love each other deeply and passionately:

“Men and women can and do love each other intensely and genuinely. They can and do see past each other’s deficiencies and their love endures.”

For men who innately cling to an idealistic concept of love, their own kind of Deep Conversion can come in the form of ONEitis and develop into some very unhealthy dependencies. One of the reasons ONEitis is so common among men is because their Blue Pill conditioning predisposes them to putting women’s needs above his own and they see that as the path to sustaining this True Love state – a state defined by their idealism.

For women, this Deep Conversion can only result from a man who so thoroughly satisfies her Hypergamous nature she’s willing to abandon her own sexual strategy. And, like the guy with ONEitis, she dedicates herself to the one guy she was able to (she thinks) lock down who was a better-than-deserved Hypergamous prospect. Women get very upset when this dedication is questioned (not unlike the ONEitis guy) because they’ve generally abandoned furthering their sexual strategy by investing their egos into a guy who satisfied their Hypergamous natures. To doubt that devotion is to doubt the wisdom of her investment – and that goes down to her evolved biology and psychology in that choice. I should note here that Alpha Widows are born from this conversion.

However, for all of that inherent risk, and despite men and women’s differing concepts of love, men and women can and do come together in individual states of love (that they often believe the other shares) that are ‘genuine’ to them and also last a lifetime. I would argue that this state cannot exist without a woman’s Deep Conversion occurring after, and as a process of, her testing and evaluating the quality of the man she feels it for. And I would also argue that a man who commits himself to this woman must also feel some sense of his idealistic concept of love being validated by that woman who has devoted herself to him.

Under the old social contracts, and under the old set of books, this conversion in men and women was likely something much easier than it is today. Women are distracted by social and cultural influences that distorts their ever truly understanding their greatly diminishing value to men, and at the same time places so many men so far below women in general that this conversion and devotion will always seem demeaning to them – even for men who exceed them in SMV.

However, this Deep Conversion state is not an impossibility and it is not impossible to sustain it in a Red Pill aware paradigm. In fact, I’ll say that Red Pill awareness and internalized Game is really the only way to sustain it in an era of Open Hypergamy where Blue Pill conditioning of men is the norm, and women’s expectations of men are ridiculously low, but standards are ridiculously exaggerated.

For the Red Pill / Game aware guy, understanding this conversion and how to inspire it is something he ought to contemplate since so much of a woman’s ego becomes invested in her devotion to him once that conversion takes place. Conversely, Red Pill men should also understand, as Nick explained about his ex-wife, that this conversion is always tentative upon his own capacity to perpetuate it.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sentient
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KFG. Threadwinner.

Blax they wont get on your level so wont have your POV…

Lost Patrol
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@Rollo

That commentary clears things up for me a lot. I was struggling a bit with the OP.

Just as boys are taught to hate their gender and to avoid ‘toxic’ conventional masculinity in themselves, so too are women taught to hate the essential parts of femininity.

The end result is generation after generation that hates the most integral parts of their own binary gender identities.

Generation after generation – I opine that the quality of our lives, both individually and collectively, will be degraded by this; and already has been.

Sentient
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And Fleezer on ownership… That is mindset.

Hat tip.

theasdgamer
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Sorry if I don’t respond immediately, but I’m “out in the field” tonight. I work here.

You’re out standing in your field…I wish you’d stand in somebody else’s field. ta-dum

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@Rollo, this comment is in some ways better than the OP. “Meet her mother” has been basic advice for young men for generations, it is doubly important now that a lot of women are raised by divorced single mothers. Nevermind all the babymommas. If she has siblings, meet them too, but a lot of families are one-child now. It’s part of the vetting that gets ignored. Fact is, though, some women are just going to be far more work than they are worth. For example, I got a soccer mommy upset a couple of years ago by listening to her… Read more »

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@ Sentient

I had a thought a while back. When I got my first piece of pussy Mystery was 3 years old.

I mean, I get it. He’s speshul and important somewhat…..but not to me. He couldn’t do shit for me.

Guys happened to know shit while he was still in diapers.

mersonia
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@Blax

“I mean, I get it. He’s speshul and important somewhat…..but not to me. He couldn’t do shit for me.

Guys happened to know shit while he was still in diapers.”

Cool.

mersonia
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But you didn’t break down the human mating process and he did……

hank holiday
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@FIWL

i should start writing more often. Given hank is writing so many. Should take him as a role model when it comes to writing down things.

thanks for jinxing it lol. got fuck nothing on my time out today, so no FR.

SJF
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Dang Rollo, I once just got a comment blocked by WordPress Moderation. I figured it out to be an old chatbot female name that shares the first part of a Tolstoy protagonist last name. And that Krauser alluded to. “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” In other words: in order to be happy, a family must be successful on each and every one of a range of criteria e.g: sexual attraction, money issues, parenting, religion, in-laws. Failure on only one of these counts leads to unhappiness. Thus there are more ways for… Read more »

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@blax I had a thought a while back. When I got my first piece of pussy Mystery was 3 years old. I mean, I get it. He’s speshul and important somewhat…..but not to me. He couldn’t do shit for me. Guys happened to know shit while he was still in diapers. The Roman Republic was dust long before the founding fathers were born. Therefore, the founders had nothing useful to add to our understanding of government. Clearly, no new information is ever created or discovered. So we should just keep to the original and go back to a roman style… Read more »

Sentient
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Quack quack… Mersonia

Blax – Mystery decoded the female language of seduction.

Mystery himself is a dynamic passionate and authentic guy…

He does not hold the view that PUA is an ethos… He is more detached… Game as a tool…

He is also pro masculinity despite the props he used.

Overall he is a pretty cool cat.

Now his disciples… Well disciples often corrupt the message of their prophets…

Sentient
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Witness the strained orthodoxy in these comments…

Cats are not dogma…

Blaximus
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@ mersonia

My original point stands. Mystery is not speshul to me. If he helped you, and you were in need of said help, that’s great.

I could walk out my front door and ask 10,000 people who Mystery is, and no one would know nor care.

Life, for a vast majority of men, is not viewed through a PUA lens. If that works for you, wonderful.

Go read and re-read to your heart’s content.

kfg
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“I for one am really looking forward to rocking a toga.”

The toga was a result of the Romans not paying attention to the wisdom of their Greek elders.

mersonia
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@Blax
:My original point stands. Mystery is not speshul to me.”

We know love…and thats cool.

“Life, for a vast majority of men, is not viewed through a PUA lens. If that works for you, wonderful.”

You mean red pill lens. You included

“I could walk out my front door and ask 10,000 people who Mystery is, and no one would know nor care.”

You could walk out and ask 10,000 people what red the red pill is…. a few would say oxycontin

Blaximus
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@ Sentient

Yo man, I get all of that re: Mystery.

It’s just that I tire of trying to make a point, or read other’s thoughts, and being constantly confronted with MM and Owen and Julien and Marshal and sleepy and dopey……

If guys take that stuff as religion and can only see the entire world through what some dude said on a video or in a book a decade ago…… Jesus, and original thought?

/End rant.

Sentient
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Blax… Yeah i think Mystery and Owen would agree with you…

Ironic their disciples don’t…

sfer
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The problem with long term stuff is that it is a lottery ticket. It may work but people change. Real life rich alpha dudes just get divorced after a while and don’t let it bother them.

Blaximus
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@ Sentient Lol. Maaannnn…..idk. I mean, this is a RP blog with great non PUA content. I figure that out would be just one component of the discussion. But the arrogance factor of the ” just get pussy ” crowd changes the dynamics. If anything is discussed outside of PUA think, there’s an ongoing avalanche of ” forget all that, get in the field and practice A1-C3 “, like that’s the meaning of life. All else is false, BP and hurts the lurker/newbs. Or…. maybe it’s me. That’s possible. Just once I’d like to see an essay discussed while moving… Read more »

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Good reads
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http://wp.me/p5MelF-1wF
Just ran 50 miles
Realized my death. Realized the importance
Of each moment. Must rest. Thank you all for helping me learn about the world.

Just Saying
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Women would rather cry over an asshole than be saddled with a guy who bores them to tears. I wish men really would get this simple fact. It’s coming up on the season where my hobby brings me a LOT of women; married, in relationships, single, whatever – and they all want one thing – to be excited, and to feel excitement again. Today, most men are boring – hell, they act like women for the most part. I’m a frickin’ fossil, but i grew up being a man – hunting, fishing, and then sky-diving and other things. Let me… Read more »

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Women would rather cry over an asshole than be saddled with a guy who bores them to tears.

I wish men really would get this simple fact. It’s coming up on the season where my hobby brings me a LOT of women; married, in relationships, single, whatever – and they all want one thing – to be excited, and to feel excitement again. T

Why, it’s almost as though 5 minutes of alpha….

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Blaximus
Just once I’d like to see an essay discussed while moving forward, instead of circular. No more Snark Week. Locks removed from minds.

Dude, there is nothing stopping you from moving a discussion forward. Right?

Sun Wukong
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Couldn’t pump my state at all while I was out tonight after a couple of blow outs, so I pop in here and… Jesus H, you guys are still being such catty faggots. Like seriously. This is a shit show.

Stop being such incredible faggots.

scribblerg
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@SunWukong – Cosign that. It’s the same goddamn thing over and over and over again. It really sucks and destroys the dialog here.

Black Pill
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Need some help gentlemen, and was directed here by reddid/trp.. I’ve reached a real plateau and would appreciate advice from guys who have been in a similar situation and overcome it. 2 years ago a 6 year LTR ended, and left me feeling a bit fucked up at age 37. To get over it I really focused on self improvement. I’d never really had the courage to approach hot women, so I made that my goal. I started lifting regularly, lost 20 pounds, bought a new wardrobe, and most importantly started going out every Friday and chatting to girls. I… Read more »

stuffinbox
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Blackpill One thing to keep in mind all these girls are gaming you with their own agenda,a few easy to answer questions from you will help to qualify what that agenda is.Once you get them talking about themselves the beans spill and the cats out of the bag. Why even answer the age question,upbeat answer,how old do you want me to be?my favorite is,who wants to know? The women in relationships have already drained their men and find them boring,their men see the iois their women have for you and are dissing you for being a player,this gives you the… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Black – You sound like you are just kind of winging it when it comes to pickup and actual gaming of women. For me, buckling down and studying mystery method and running structured sets with a method to my madness was a huge stop forward. I’m not pro, and am not going to give you specific direction – the PUAs here can do that.

Field reports help too.

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@Black Pill “Need some help gentlemen….. ….. so none of this makes any fucking sense to me.” First of all, define your goals for what you are looking for going forward in relationship with a woman/women. If what you are seeing makes no sense to you then read the link at the top of this blog The Best of Rational Male Year One (or better yet get a physical copy of Rollo’s first book which contains the same info more consolidated). And really read that shit as though your life depended on it. Because is does. Also at your age,… Read more »

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One more thought, Black Pill. It is OK to be in a stage of Grief, whether it be Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression in regards to where you are. That’s normal. They happen. Work through those stages. It takes time… If and when you get to Acceptance of who you are and the dual nature of womens sexual strategy in their schedules of mating (Rollos second book and essays “Schedules of Mating) and their true nature, then you will be taxed less in your efforts. And some of your best efforts at getting with women can be accomplished by having good… Read more »

Sentient
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BlackPill

Sounds like you arent leading the interactions you are having. You are relying on passive value to move things forward. Girls want you to lead and push through…

So yeh a swinger couple doing the leading makes perfect sense.

Other than your health and fitness how is the rest of your life going? Are you interesting and have passions? Or are you a boring cardboard cut out wandering through life wondering what it is all about?

Have you considered the Platinum Rule?

Black Pill
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Thanks guys. @sjf I have been studying game since 2012, have read most of this blog. On a plus, I am now the only guy I know who can cold approach the hottest girl in a room, get her talking and get her number. Here’s a field report to better illustrate what i deal with. About three months ago a girl showed up doing a promo at a pub I hang out at on Fridays. I can’t remember how we got started, but I negged her, there was instant chemistry, and I sent her on her way without asking for… Read more »

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@sentient only saw your comment now. I used to be very into surfing, but moved in from the coast and don’t really have something to replace that. Thinking of getting my sailing license next year to have a challenge and do something interesting. Right now.. I’m politically active on the alt right, have a decent sized following on FB, but don’t bring that stuff up around the girls. Pretty into my gymming, but also don’t talk about it much, since that’s the norm in this city. But I don’t talk about work or sports or other beta shit, mostly I… Read more »

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“Bang. So I say, then you should take my number. She says no, take mine. I do, then say ‘I dont do whatsapp let’s just hang out sometime’. She says sure, lets do a picnic next weekend. She wants you to be the aggressor,she wants you to suprise her, excitement. All good. Next day she whatsapps me, we exchange maybe 2 lines and she asks me how old I am. I tell her I am 32 and say that its too bad she cant cancel the picnic cos the old age home already gave me a day pass. She laughed.… Read more »

stuffinbox
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Blackpill

Stick around,the real puas will show up later after a few cans of red bull or whatever it takes to get motivated.

M Simon
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fleezer
November 11, 2016 at 2:38 pm

I ran through quite a few women before I came across one that was intrinsically bonded to me. It is different.

Sentient
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Black Pill

I’m 49. Age is a huge positive. Just know you will get shit tests and thet are easy to pass which justs boosts your value.

I see a problem with authenticity and with leading and intent. Faking it without making it. Check back tomorrow on this.

The Platinum Rule is doing whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it.

SJF
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@Black Pill Just want to tease some more info out of you in a philosophical vein. I find your comments and questions interesting. And not trying to nag you. Also not trying to give specific practical PUA advice. Besides reading blogs how else have you studied and practiced game? What resource materials have you relied on to learn Game. Do you think 100 approaches are a lot? Do you go into a venue and go right for the most attractive girl, or do you try to work everyone, be fun and add value and have social proof or pre-selection. How… Read more »

SJF
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Oh, and why did you call yourself Black Pill? What is the significance of that?

M Simon
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Black Pill
November 13, 2016 at 6:48 am

If they are asking you how old you are you haven’t generated enough attraction. Last summer I had an HB8/9 20 something stalking me for a few hours. The OL was amused. I was 71 at the time. BTW I never said a word to the stalker. I did make some eye contact.

And why was the OL amused? She had a similar experience 40+ years ago. And it continues.

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Interesting write-up, I’m glad you explained the “women can’t love like a man wants them to” bit more thoroughly. Not that I was confused, I thought you explained it perfectly well the first time, but it was so misinterpreted by so many it was worth explaining again, IMO. I’ve never really understood the disconnect there. Maybe because I’ve never believed the fairytale view of relationships. In fact, when I was “deeply converted” so many many years ago it was actually quite strange and something beyond spectacular to me that life was imitating the fairytale far more than I’d ever imagined… Read more »

M Simon
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“You need more stuff that resonates with women to talk about.”

The last oil change on your Harley.

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anon
November 13, 2016 at 7:38 am

“women can’t love like a man wants them to”

True up to a point. If she wants you bad enough she can and WILL love you the way you want to be loved. But she has to decide. And that is one of the most difficult tasks for a woman.

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Black Pill Another thing you are probably running into is you are overgaming because you do not understand you already have massive high value. So by over gaming with the cocky funny and not talking about yourself you are disqualifying the girls… And if this is also combined with not leading… Well you end up where you are. Comes back to the authenticity… Do you even see yourself as being high value just because of you? check back tomorrow ive gone through this. One of the problems with paint by the numbers approach. But do watch the Mystery vids… He… Read more »

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kfg
November 12, 2016 at 3:29 pm

” If you ain’t seen it, you ain’t likely to believe it.”

There was a time when this (bonding) was taught. Women used to get (well some women) commitment. Now practically none do.

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@anon Thanks, I learned a new adjective-quotidian. “Carly’s perspective is that of a child, not that of a woman who’s attended (as a divorced mother) the marriage of her eldest, in a strained sham of a blended family “reunion.” Carly the Child wants Love but not Life. She wants sensation not legacy. She wants Romance and not devotion. So Carly Simon today, one of the sexiest women of the last 100 years, lives alone.” Last year I actually read Carly Simon’s memoir (and also Padma Lakshmi’s while I was at it). I would recommend them highly to anyone interested in… Read more »

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SJF
November 13, 2016 at 8:04 am

James Taylor lost his Alpha to drugs? That is doubtful.

More likely he woke up one day to, “I’ll never get another woman as beautiful as her.” And that was the end of it.

theasdgamer
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Stop being such incredible faggots.

a very gamma comment,lol

theasdgamer
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Witness the strained orthodoxy in these comments…
Cats are not dogma…

also witness the strained attempt at humor

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Guys I appreciate you engaging with me. @sjf “Besides reading blogs how else have you studied and practiced game? What resource materials have you relied on to learn Game. Do you think 100 approaches are a lot? Do you go into a venue and go right for the most attractive girl, or do you try to work everyone, be fun and add value and have social proof or pre-selection.” I moved cities last year and moved to a neighborhood where I knew nobody. Cops here are intense on drunk driving, so I picked the pub closest to me, got to… Read more »

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Rollo Tomassi November 12, 2016 at 2:52 pm *** I’m of the opinion that women are happier when they can surrender in this way and make a man the focus of their lives. This idea grates against the feminist in women, but another part of them can’t deny that they crave that dominance. I tried explaining this to #1 daughter. The subject is permanently closed. She is 25 so I have a few more years before she hits the wall. And since she is at least a HB9.5 (she models) she will be hitting the wall some later than average.… Read more »

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@SunWukong – Cosign that. It’s the same goddamn thing over and over and over again. It really sucks and destroys the dialog here.

Oh, I’m so concerned…

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I also want to add that I live in South Africa, not the United States. The country is very conservative compared to the USA, and there’s very low levels of social trust. The city I live in has a high m:f ratio, which causes issues as well. Increased competition means the majority of guys go to gym, are well groomed, shredded etc. Lots of good looking single guys around, women pretty much have their pick.

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M Simon
November 13, 2016 at 8:25 am

I should add that the OL could bond OK. It was that she didn’t want to put in the effort to make it last.

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M Simon
November 13, 2016 at 8:29 am

And actually it was not about making it last. It lasted. It (bonding with me) was just not the top priority. For now – it is. I have taught her (for a while) to give in to her desires.

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M Simon: ““women can’t love like a man wants them to” True up to a point. If she wants you bad enough she can and WILL love you the way you want to be loved. But she has to decide. And that is one of the most difficult tasks for a woman.” My interpretation (and I might be wrong) is that the old paradigm of love (“pill pill version”) is more unconditional (iow requires no burden of performance). Looking at it from the angle, I don’t think it’s possible. Yes, “if she wants you bad enough” she WILL “love you… Read more »

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@M Simon From a red pill perspective James Taylor was actually externally Paper Apex Alpha artist mainly by way of Mastery (pop/rock star). So he wasn’t actually authentic (in his mindset and way he saw himself) in retrospect even if he looked good on paper in the late sixties through mid seventies. He was troubled like Curt Cobain was with psychic pain that heroin served to relieve until it carved a rut in his brain. Carly Simon simply could not trust him for Her Safety and the Safety of her Children (TM) at one point. He had her deeply converted… Read more »

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I should add (per dopamine rush all the time land)
Or at least, it isn’t healthy or beneficial longterm.

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“My interpretation (and I might be wrong) is that the old paradigm of love (“pill pill version”) is more unconditional (iow requires no burden of performance).”

Bear in mind that that is the new old set of books that only appears old from our new new set of books perspective.

Victorian romanticism has a lot to answer for.

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@anon “My interpretation (and I might be wrong) is that the old paradigm of love (“pill blue? pill version”) is more unconditional (iow requires no burden of performance). Looking at it from the angle, I don’t think it’s possible. Yes, “if she wants you bad enough” she WILL “love you the way you want to be loved” but getting her to want you bad enough requires some burden of performance in the first place. The old set of books 1.0 placed males and females in a dependent relationship. That was dissolved by feminism into a 50/50 type of relationship (and… Read more »

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The woman get’s to submit (ok bad word tossed around by guys), the woman gets to be filled up with love/receive what he has to give (in all his greatness) because she trusts him.

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anon November 13, 2016 at 8:44 am Well yes. You need to meet the qualifications. No doubt about it. What bonding means is “permanent” qualification. That is testing declines. And you are correct. It never goes to zero. Which of course means it is not permanent. It is the closest thing you can get to permanent. It really is a different order though. Being nice to her is no longer an automatic Beta signal. I still remind her of who I am. To keep her from forgetting. I’d add (and think BV’s words hit this point home best) that it… Read more »

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SJF
November 13, 2016 at 9:10 am

Submit is the right word.

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SJF
November 13, 2016 at 9:09 am

That is why I think “conversion” is a very bad term. You don’t convert her. Either that deep desire is there or it is not. If it is there it is pretty unshakable.

When I discuss this with the LTR it is in the context of her giving in to her desire. Resolving all conflicts in favor of that desire.

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SJF November 13, 2016 at 8:45 am What you describe re: heroin is that he let his PTSD get the best of him. The “I’m not good enough” routine often goes with PTSD. You see it in lots of alcoholics too. Same root cause. And you know that is not attractive to women. At all. My guess is that he wanted a relationship (and sex) to relieve his pain. Thus dependence on the pain reliever of the day. The real way around this is to cure (in so far as that can be done) your PTSD first (or at least… Read more »

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I know submit is the proper term. I was speaking to anon in female language there. Directed to a female commenter. See that?

I see what you are saying about conversion in context being improper. But Krauser had context of having totally lost his wife’s desire and I personally see it in terms of never having had that submission totally (but had set of books 2.0 better than adequate dividends in my relationship) and then became betatized. So to our INTJ brains, the concept is an attractive goal. As an abstract concept.

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SJF
November 13, 2016 at 9:44 am

I’m not into NEWSPEAK. If I mean “submit” that is what I say.

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Just watch this for lens into how social media shapes young women.
[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE69tjnKD3k&w=560&h=315%5D

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M Simon I.understand that in a place like this–a male enclave. But game is always artistry an sometimes subtle when interacting with women. Calibrating an speaking in their language. If I were speaking to a man I would use the term submit. But I was speaking to a woman I don’t know and trying to engage in covert communication. Like NLP. So I used something like fill her up with love. Something that was spoken to get an emotional response. Something I would definitely be laughable or silly if communicating with a guy buddy with whom the proper term would… Read more »

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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I don’t comment often. Haven’t slept. Been re-recording parts of the audiobook, but I wanted you to see the influence Dr. Rollo J. Tomassi, Professor Emeritus, is having on the most popular modern content in the world. Emphasis mine where all caps exist. CONTEXTUAL ALPHA in “The Rational Male” (book & audiobook) by Rollo Tomassi (when Rollo explains “James Hooker”) To students in a classroom, being the teacher confers a contextual presumption of mastery and thus a de facto social proof is conferred upon that person. In that theater, in that environment, the teacher is Alpha. ~Rollo Tomassi, “The Rational… Read more »

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From Rollo’s post: “I would also argue that both a woman’s evolved psychological filtering (testing) of a man’s Hypergamous qualifications and her socialized sense of self (ego) contribute to a woman resisting this Deep Conversion for a man. ” Late Friday night the missus iterates up my decade-ago erstwhile porn habit. She talks for a minute to which I reply, “Honey, I say this with humility. This is a personal issue you need to reconcile. I’ve dealt with it long ago. I can walk with you along your journey. Ultimately, this is solo personal work.” She remained pensive for 18… Read more »

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Thanks for posting that Sam, writers definitely follow this stuff

On to a technical question. I’m in discussions with three women

1) 44, marriage crumbling, had one affair, wants to try bdsm
2) 35, single mom, has tried bdsm and wants more
3) 26, single, kinky, wants me to bring a violet wand (not the same thing as a magic wand)

Are any submitting?

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Smartphone culture from a different perspective:

ollieoxenfree1
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@Rollo In regards to post Nov 12, 2:52pm You wrote “We’re taught that we ought not ever be dependent upon anyone but ourselves for our own happiness, but on some level of consciousness we know that we need a connection with other people.” If you depend on anyone for your happiness, you’ll never be happy. Married men learnt this lesson all too well. I would also argue the duplicitous tendencies of many in society make social interaction a worthless endeavour. When you discuss female empowerment you do so without any objectivity in mind. Ask yourself, who doesn’t want to be… Read more »

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@oxen

It’s in my nature to kill you, which might help the advancement of our species, as would women’s nature to not breed with certain men

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“I would also argue the duplicitous tendencies
of many in society make social interaction a worthless endeavour.”

Thoreau, who sought to to reduce life to it’s minimum essentials, rejected becoming a hermit, because he recognized that, as social animals, society was a minimum essential.

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@ kfg

Enjoyed the video. ” Scatter-brained ” is an excellent descriptor. I often hear people say that they are ” multi-tasking ” when they are engaged in more than one mindless pursuit.

I hope I will turn out to be mistaken, but the future looks dim as hell. There’s a lot of complicated problems society will face in the coming decades/centuries, and it looks like the ability to concentrate is rapidly being erased.

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@ ollieoxenfree1

Do you really perceive ” many ” in society as having duplicitous tendencies?

What have your observations been to make you arrive at this?

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@pua @yareally @culum @forge So yesterday was just a long grind, nothing. Went out again today tho. Bookstore. Black two set walking out, but not really ready to go yet so couldn’t respond in time. Inside a two set really ugly white chick and an asian. Pass them. Collect myself, go back and open the ugly one. Were you at that costume part open. Not surprisingly, she doesn’t really like me. Asian does though. Go into my new DHV of the chick at the mall thinking I was a crazy guy at a party from Fridays FR https://therationalmale.com/2016/11/11/deep-conversion/comment-page-2/#comment-178233 Getting better… Read more »

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Fred Flange, Xisself
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And now Bride magazine tries to encourage script-flipping so it’s ok for Epiphany women to force marriage proposals:
http://www.today.com/style/women-proposing-men-why-not-3-myths-debunked-t104691

Capt. Obvious sez: look at the pics of the grooms!

I dig this topic but I wonder with some amusement if any sort of deep conversion will ever darken these households’ doorsteps…

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@rugby

I don’t know about others but I never click on unknown links

I need to know why I should click, where I will be taken to, and what to expect there

If your account has been hijacked by evil link posters, hope to have you back soon

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“Where our ancestors had to compete, achieve and adapt to survive and reproduce, today’s college snowflakes just have to drink, party and f##k.” “#3) FEMINIZED MALES = BACKWARDS EVOLUTION: When males of a species become weak, feminized, “it takes a village” pathetic wankers, the entire population suffers as a whole. The role of the strong male in the population — as defender, protector, hunter or warrior — is not just diminished but vilified. Gay men and gender-confused individuals become worshipped as “progressive” — as if they are moving the human race forward — but they actually induce a backwards evolution… Read more »

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kfg
Thoreau, who sought to to reduce life to it’s minimum essentials, rejected becoming a hermit, because …. it was dinnertime at Emerson’s house.

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Blaximus
I often hear people say that they are ” multi-tasking ” when they are engaged in more than one mindless pursuit.

They’re kidding themselves, indulging little habits for micro-dopamine hits in the middle of something else that doesn’t give dopamine hits. I haven’t seen any evidence that humans can multitask, we can at best switch tasks quite quickly but that makes one easily distract—look at the moon, it’s so big tonight!

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hank holiday
Getting better at it. Asian girl really likes me. Ugly girl wants to leave…not real obviously, but I can pick up on her body language.

One year ago would you have even noticed that? Doubt it. Look how far you’ve come.

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“I haven’t seen any evidence that humans can multitask, we can at best switch tasks quite quickly but that makes one easily distract—look at the moon, it’s so big tonight!” Females can multitask. It is their nature. Do you have children? Have you ever read Goodnight Moon to your children when they were young? Best Parable ever? Because of Paradox? Male choose not to. Ever get annoyed by women claiming multitasking? Ever hear that from them? They flow like is no tomorrow in the ocean (back and forth) that is one big multi-tasking gig. Take that away from them: guess… Read more »

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@AR: “…. it was dinnertime at Emerson’s house.”

And he rather fancied the server.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-power-prime/201103/technology-myth-multitasking

Women do not multitask. They become scatterbrained. My favorite text on the myth of multitasking is actually Keith Code’s The Soft Science of Motorcycle Road Racing.

But yeah, they’re really good at being scatterbrains, although, for some reason, they prefer the multitasking nomenclature when they admit to it and get really pissed off if you use the more accurate nomenclature.

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kfg Women do not multitask. +1 Nobody multitasks. I’d forgotten that PsychToday article, but remembered it as I read it. Context switching from task to task can be fast, and the more autonomic parts of the nervous system can do stuff under minimal supervision – “the front site appears in my vision – the trigger breaks” – but it’s still serialized. To get true multitasking in the human critter you have to cheat and drag in the vagus nerve & stuff – yeah, I don’t tell my heart to beat, that’s a background task anyway so Pbbbbbthth! Nobody multitasks. It’s… Read more »

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“But yeah, they’re really good at being scatterbrains, although, for some reason, they prefer the multitasking nomenclature when they admit to it and get really pissed off if you use the more accurate nomenclature.” Yep Newspeak: Multitasking Men Speak:Non- Scatterbrains is on point. Men just get it. Muti-tasking is feminine scatter braininess. I’m with you on this, but if life is but a Game with women, I want to play it well. If life is but a Game, may I play it well. We men see it (red pill awareness), we make the call and then we decide what to… Read more »

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“But this is a digression. We should be coming up with a better term than “Deep Conversion, the story of bold men and YouGoGrrls in the Marianas Trench!”.”

Heh, We’re all ears.

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@redlight

What is your point?

SJF
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@ ollieoxenfree1

Who are you. Or more on point: What is you bias. You haven’t really declared that, now have you?

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@scribbleberg just on that video.. that made me laugh. An Instagram model ‘quitting’ social media by making a video for social media where she can be ‘real’™ and have a sincere cry at the end. Not for the view count, of course, or the attention. Reminds me of that Cheech and Chong scene where Chong talks to a girl about how he’s given up drugs and then immediately asks if she has any.

Sam Botta (@sambotta)
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“THE SECURITY AND DEVELOPMENT PHASES” – “THE TURNING” As explained by Rollo Tomassi: Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent… While a woman’s respect, and a degree of love may flow back to her man, her primary love and concern is directed towards her children… children being a one-directional priority for a woman’s love… While a degree of maintaining a man’s continued personal investment and commitment to the family unit requires her attentions… Read more »

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YaReally Sentient HABD Wala Scray Hank Forge & PUA Sunday Solo FR So Sunday was kind of a strange day. My mindset’s changing – particularly after those back to back Tinder lays last week. I’m just much more relaxed and laid back about this stuff. I was supposed to meet a late 40s MILF HB6 from online – she’d been telling me how she’d bought lingerie for me etc but I just blew her off. Didn’t feel like the drive even though I knew I could lay her. Like yeah, sex is nice, but there would have been no learning… Read more »

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