The Dangers of the Red Pill


redpill_danger

I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:

It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.

But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.

The side effects are really nasty.

Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.

The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.

Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.

When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.

It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.

But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…

It’s easier.

Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pillbut the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.

I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.

Wutang from Roosh’s forum:

I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?

While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.

That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.

I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.

Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.

In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.

The Rule

NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to?  I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.

I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.

I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.

If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.

Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.

Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.

When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.

In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.

As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.

From the Roosh forum again:

The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.

“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”

Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.

I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.

There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.

Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.

So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.

751 comments

  1. Under the “Patriarchy”, we were all free to speak our minds and differ in opinions. Under the “new, better” paradigm (matriarchy? It doesn’t seem right), we’re all to think the same and act the same. Badthink will not be tolerated.

    Especially if your badthink is suggesting that the old way was better.

  2. The Rule

    NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

    MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to? I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

    You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

    Rollo,

    Very important post here. As Wutang alludes to, there are risks to being to open and forthcoming about Red Pill truths and ideas. I’ve made the point often that one must be prudent about the who and when to have these conversations.

    More broadly speaking then Red Pill, many people tend to break down into idealists/idealogues versus pragmatists. The more someone is an idealist/idealogue the more trouble they will have processing Red Pill truths. Pragmatists will make the transition fairly seamlessly. For me personally, it was a fairly easy transition. OK, that other set of Rules doesn’t work, here is the new set of rules.

    Another factor is that I think just run of the mill mediocrity or even quiet desperation are not enough to motivate guys steeped in decades of Blue Pill femcentric conditioning to reassess their beliefs. Often, they do the exact opposite and double down on the behavior and mindset creating the conditions. It often takes a pure crisis such as a soldier returning from a 1 year tour of duty to find his wife has been banging some other guy and wants a divorce to start to question things like Relational Equity.

    Many will ultimately emulate this…we know bloggers that eventually went this route. It is easier and more comforting to simply see the “happy couples” in the park with their kids, then consider that 1/2 those guys are on the verge of compiling spreadsheets on the lack of their sex life, or that their wife is endlessly nagging them to move into an expensive school district that is beyond his income potential.

  3. Great post. First of all, I believe that it’s not possible get to know Red Pill and get back to Blue Pill. Maybe it is, but I never encountered it nor I don’t think it would work out. If you become Red, and you understand what that means – you swallowed the whole knowledge – then you can’t go back. You won’t be 100% Blue ever again. Ever.

    Even in Matrix this didn’t worked out. It did for Cypher- but only after erasing his memory. Remember that (pun intended).

    *But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity.*

    They ignore something they do not fully understand. Or what they fear. Or what they don’t want to know better. They might suspect, that something with the society and gender dynamics is wrong but… just like people still fully connected to the Matrix – can’t be 100% sure.

    And I must admit, it’s a lonely path. I’ve already lost few good friends (and one of my best ones, sadly, that I knew from so long – almost 20 years) due to Red Pill truth. Sometimes directly because they didn’t wanted to hear or believe the truth and preferred to ‘kill the messenger’ instead, other times it was because of their female partners sensing danger.

    But this is who I am, I can’t shut my mouth up. It’s like knowing that Aliens landed on the backyard of White House and don’t try to tell anybody! Yet, it’s so easy to be tagged ‘crazy’ ‘asshole’ ‘sensation seeker’ or even ‘evil’.

  4. Excellent post and something I need to keep in mind. I see many men who are desperate for answers but if I try to feed them answers it can cause them to double down on what isn’t working and become quite angry at me. I’ve also had men come to me for answers simply because I so frequently speak the truth.

    Yesterday I spent two hours speaking with a 48 year old man I work with. About divorcing his wife. A woman who, of course, cares nothing for his massive sacrifices and only keeps saying “more, more, more” and “me, me, me”. I’m happy that I now have the knowledge to teach a man how to plan a divorce and avoid a divorce rape, as best as he can.

    I’m also quite happy about the many men I have saved from marriage.

    Though I have lost many friends during this transition. I’ve also found a deeper connection to many others. I even discovered that my oldest friend has been red pill aware, and a reader of the sub, for a long time. He knew I was entering into a horror pact when I got married. He simply vowed to be there to support me when/if I ended up where I did.

    To fully accept the red pill, for someone who was so deep into my blue pill conditioning, I had to kill my ego. I set out to destroy it years ago. It was an incredible experience the likes of which are difficult to explain. I hope I never have to do such a thing again. To rebuild who I am at the deepest level. From nothing.

    Thanks for being there for me. It is good to have a guide when you are living in darkness. Better to have a guide who simply tells you, ” this is how it is. Now what are you going to do about it? ”

    I was sent a link to your blog from the talk about marriage forum. The sheer amount of information in each post makes them re-readable many times. I do not think there is a better resource for men then this blog.

    The knowledge is there. The truth is there. We just have to accept it.

  5. Rollo,

    Perhaps like Michelangelo you are a genius in multiple fields.

    I suspect you are.

    we need to red the blog about tge economy. Desperately.

    the normalization of debt = the equivalent of the feminine imperative, or blue pill mental construct complete saturation

    debt and blue pill ideas towards women are the twin daggers in the hearts of men

  6. My ego story is similar to that told by StringsofCoins, though I hope still to avoid some of the rest of it. (I feel for you, brother.) Reconstruction is a hard, strange road, but my ability to think clearly and cleanly, that is, without endless fallacies and rhetorical dodges, makes it worth any discomfort.

    I’ve pondered the problem of bringing men out of the foul, saccharine lies of the Matrix when they are clearly frustrated, at wits end, but continuing to defend what that keeps them bound. There are so many.

  7. I’ve been confronted with these issues since I began unplugging (2-3 months ago). When I try to unplug friends or relatives, because they’re so institutionalized into the narrative, they seem to neglect it. I’m very young (20) so its a blessing that I was able to uncovered Red Pill truths before life had its way with me. Really needed this article Rollo, thank you

  8. As someone who’s pretty evangelical about the Red Pill, I understand both the allure and the dangers implicit in introducing that savage little pill to a man. Remember that it is medicine, for the sick and ailing, not a pancea.

    But there is another component of this, Rollo, the greater cultural message that RP concepts are starting to bleed into the very edges of the mainstream. It helps that feminism seems so determined to jump the shark, but social pressures and demographics are as much to blame. Within five years the leading edge of the Millennials will hit their first collective look at their Epiphanies, and the outlook ain’t pretty.

    The marriage market is crumbling before their eyes, and we’re on the other side of the wall with sledgehammers. The murky depths of the Manosphere, from the MHRM to the PUA community, have all been patiently preaching to those who would listen, and word is spreading in incremental but important ways. As men become better marriage consumers, they naturally come across our blogs and subreddits. And as the Fight Club-style of secrecy attracts more and more like-minded men, the ripples spread. Eventually, TRP will be seen as a radical but practical approach to masculine dating, publicly, while it will be embraced by men in private.

    It’s easy to advise caution, individually, but the inevitable result of our collective evangelism, even on a small scale, is missionary zeal. As long as the Manosphere can continue to be the repository of new and helpful insights into masculinity, those who need to find their way here will find it increasingly easy. And those who rail against us will find it increasingly frustrating to contend with.

    Keep it up, Gentlemen. Wait for your opportunities. Whether it’s helping a brother out during a break-up, or speaking candidly to your nephews while you’re out for a smoke, hold your frame and wait for the moment. Sometimes it only takes a word – and if it takes much more, STFU. This isn’t a mere social marketing meme, here, this is an underground social movement, a revalorization of male mysteries. The more we try to keep it quiet, the more men will want to be a part of it.

  9. Feh, I fucking knew THIS shit a few months after reading TRM and I started questioning the veracity of @ScotMckay and @CarlosXuma’s teachings.

    Many people who “find their voice” in the red pill are really after a way to capitalize on it, only finding that they’re finally getting the attention their parents never gave to them since those children are bred to be slaves. Oh well, there’s always boards like these where people can come together and piss poetic about their circumstances, haha.

    When you make yourself the mental point of origin, you start to notice how many men and women you know don’t do that. You also notice how fucking far behind you are in terms of acquiring real power. The kind of power that lesser cocks get betrayed by their women for.

    More for me I say.

  10. It seems to me there are two separate issues here that should be handled quite differently. I need to be careful wrt work and how I make a living as in this culture I can be seriously harmed economically and professionally if my profession and adherence to these kind of ideas become known.

    As for any man? Fuck him if he can’t handle the truth. As for women? If you have actually digested the Red Pill and are trying to explain it to a woman, well it seems to me you may not really have digested it at all. A man’s life is hard no matter what way we go. Men depend on reason and deduction and evidence and that comes with a price. I’ve had many of my cherished beliefs challenged long before the Red Pill and it never is easy. I remember transitioning from an active, faithful, praying on my knees twice a day Christian to being a Buddhist and then becoming an Atheist – it was unmooring. I remember seeing how I created my own reality by the narrative I created in my mind, and seeing how miserable that narrative was and realizing that I was the author of it. I was punishing myself – that took years to overcome.

    As for the suffering of taking the Red Pill, well many of you guys have watched it unfold for me on these pages. So much pain, so much suffering, so much rage, so much shame – and I’m glad for every ounce of it. And any man who can’t handle that and doesn’t want to improve himself and his life by dealing with reality effectively doesn’t deserve my respect and really, unless it’s about killing himself, I’m not responsible for the outcome – he is.

    I also don’t understand why anyone would care about losing friends who would turn on your for dealing in these truths. I’ve been open with numerous male friends – and after a year – one of my best friends just bought The Rational Male and The Way of Men. This was after our 1000th conversation about what an ugrateful, spoiled cunt his wife is. None of my friends have to adopt this – most have just ignored what I have to say, and I don’t care. But anyone who would end a friendship over it? I’m better off without such people in my life. And with the exception of an unstable person who might be pushed to suicide by it, as a 52 year old guy who took the RP at 50 i can tell you my life is immeasurably better for it. By a mile. It’s never too late the face the truth – even on your deathbed.

    All growth requires pain – we as men know this. This pain is exquisite and beautiful and revealing and uplifting and dignifying. It honors who I actually am as a man, and the whiff of Red Pill knowledge provides a glimpse of the promise of what living as a powerful man can be like. I wouldn’t withhold it from any man as long as I don’t lose my job or he doesn’t kill himself over it. In fact, I’m much more likely to save him from killing himself by doing so.

  11. I have friends who prefer I shut up about the truth. It is after all very ugly. And if that vision of ugliness infects them they will no longer be welcome in polite society.

    You know who likes truth? Engineers. They are much less able to afford lies than any other segment of society.

    “The society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity, and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because philosophy is an exalted activity, will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water.” — John W. Gardner, Saturday Evening Post, December 1, 1962

  12. ianironwood

    May 12th, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    The marriage market is crumbling before their eyes, and we’re on the other side of the wall with sledgehammers.

    Tasty.

  13. Nathaniel Durgasingh
    May 12th, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    RP will open up possibilities you never imagined. When I was BP I had hoped for one girl. RP opened up multitudes. Like you I got RP early. Age 18 from my first girl friend no less. Enjoy. And since I haven’t seen your name before – I’m 70. I was very lucky. Back then none of this was understood except by those who got it naturally.

  14. I think the core problem is a lack of critical thinking.

    If you can listen to an idea and calmly accept or reject it you’ll do fine with Red Pill. Unfortunately most people aren’t like that.

    I told 2 old friends some Red Pill truths and this is how one responded.

  15. It makes everyone untrustworthy

    What has been seen, cannot be unseen… It is as simple as that – once the “blinders” are off, you can’t put them back on. I learned that long ago. The key is to just accept, and see how you can use it to your advantage. That is also a lesson I learned long ago that has served me well. Yes, I could lament how unfair things are – but in the end, it does nothing other than waste time. So instead see how you can use your knowledge to improve your life. That is what I did and never looked back – sure, this life isn’t what I would have ever pictured for myself, but I have money, women, and pretty much no worries or nothing to really “want”.

    Unless I wanted a fantasy – that I can never have. Too many people want the fantasy and refuse to see the truth. That’s fine if that is what they want, but for me, I prefer to see things for what they are – warts and all. Of course a lot of people, men and women, do not want to see life as it is, and live their lives in little bubbles – which if fine, till it pops and they are left with reality that they never learned how to handle.

  16. One has to be so cautious about divulging red pill secrets to any plugged in man. The mere accusation of misogyny is enough to end a career. Imagine being stripped of a professional credential based on some white knight’s baseless accusation?
    The advice to bide one’s time and dispense wisdom at key moments is an excellent approach. That reminds me…I should start using Tor whenever I access the manosphere.

  17. I also think it matters very much how you enter the conversation. I usually just start with some basic intersexual dynamics most men have never really thought about before. How women choose and how men compete for that choice. How feminism has kind of run amok – I’ve yet to meet a man who flipped out over these kinds of comments and often they are quite happy for the convo. I do so frequently – but I don’t talk about “The Red Pill” or PUA or Roosh. I tell them to come here and make of it what they will. After that? Not my yob, mano.

    @ M. Simon – Hehe, engineers indeed. To build anything well requires a profound relationship to reality.

    @Zdroidz – Every man who knows me realizes that if they stuck their finger in my face like the guy in that pic is doing, they would be drawing back a bloody stump…

  18. peregrinejohn
    May 12th, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    I think it will become apparent in time that most men (and women) prefer bondage to liberty. The Biblical story of Exodus is about men and women who miss their bondage. Twas ever thus.

    You have bursts of liberty – the founding of this country for example. But look at the numbers. About 1/3rd favored liberty, 1/3rd opposed it and the last 1/3rd was going to side with who ever came out on top. And that was in an era when liberty had some of its very best exponents and conditions conducive (oppression).

    In times like these 15% for liberty is a good showing. Which is about what you see politically. In the UK – UKIP got about those numbers and in the US Libertarian Republicans are at about 20% (of about 50% of the electorate).

    Red Pill is never going to be a mass movement. It will no doubt have influence. But control? That is very rare. The best we can hope for is to tighten up the divorce and paternity laws to make marriage a more viable option. And that would be no small thing. It might encourage more family formation. Which is a good thing for civilization.

    But a RP society? It would kill romance. Industries are built on that one faulty concept. And it is – well – so romantic.

  19. @ Glenn
    Every man who knows me realizes that if they stuck their finger in my face like the guy in that pic is doing, they would be drawing back a bloody stump…

    Fortunately the picture is more of a metaphor. My friend is super religious and he took offense at Red Pill. I was shocked by his response. He has a terrible relationship with his wife and that may have played a part. Red pill interrupted his hamstering.

  20. Glenn,

    I was most amused that my first comment on this thread was right after one of yours. We don’t always agree (we do mostly) but you are a clear thinker and always make me reconsider when you have a different position from mine.

    Very good to have you around.

  21. Kill them all. Let God sort them out.

    Only those afraid of the truth hide it.

  22. @Morpheus
    “I’ve made the point often that one must be prudent about the who and when to have these conversations.”
    That was what got me banned…

    @Nathan
    “debt and blue pill ideas towards women are the twin daggers in the hearts of men”

    I can see that

    @Peregrinejohn
    “I’ve pondered the problem of bringing men out of the foul, saccharine lies of the Matrix when they are clearly frustrated, at wits end, but continuing to defend what that keeps them bound. There are so many.”
    You know what I used to be that guy for 27 yrs

    @Nathaniel Durgasingh
    “so its a blessing that I was able to uncovered Red Pill truths before life had its way with me.”
    Keep at it brother

    @Ian Ironwood
    “Keep it up, Gentlemen. Wait for your opportunities. Whether it’s helping a brother out during a break-up, or speaking candidly to your nephews while you’re out for a smoke, hold your frame and wait for the moment. Sometimes it only takes a word – and if it takes much more, STFU. This isn’t a mere social marketing meme, here, this is an underground social movement, a revalorization of male mysteries. The more we try to keep it quiet, the more men will want to be a part of it.”

    Really hope to have a cup of something one day. That’s gold from someone I read who is a man and who fucking cares deeply…

    @Glenn
    ” I can be seriously harmed economically and professionally if my profession and adherence to these kind of ideas become known.”

    It’s been experienced by me

    “All growth requires pain – we as men know this. This pain is exquisite and beautiful and revealing and uplifting and dignifying. ”

    Change for the betterment of you.

    @M Simons
    “You know who likes truth? Engineers. They are much less able to afford lies than any other segment of society.”
    D-503 fuck the benefactor I am me…

    @Just saying
    “Too many people want the fantasy and refuse to see the truth. ”
    My environment as a child

    ” Of course a lot of people, men and women, do not want to see life as it is, and live their lives in little bubbles – which if fine, till it pops and they are left with reality that they never learned how to handle.”

    Mental breakdowns

    @Glenn
    “To build anything well requires a profound relationship to reality.”
    That’s Art Glenn

    @M Simon
    “US Libertarian Republicans are at about 20% (of about 50% of the electorate). ”

    Man that’s sad in many ways…

    “It might encourage more family formation. Which is a good thing for civilization.”

    Maybe but in city’s not sure that’s gonna hold…

    @Not born this morning
    “Kill them all. Let God sort them out.
    Only those afraid of the truth hide it.”

    I could kill, I may end up dying eventuality hopefully not by my own hand. But I won’t kill people I do not agree with. I would have a hard time growing that way. But my up bringing already pointed out how death is a possibility.

  23. You know what woman I can talk Red Pill with? My mother. Why? She married and Alpha. She gets women. When I was growing up neither of them articulated it. But they did live it until my Dad died.

    My Dad comes from a family of Alphas. You would know them if I mentioned it. And the descendents are mostly Alpha. I have a brother who my mother didn’t “get”. Such a jerk. So subservient to his wife.

    Mom and I were discussing it the other day. I said, “Mom, he is not a MAN. He is a Beta. Not like Dad at all.” A light went off. You know how mothers are about their off spring. Me? I have two Alpha sons and one basement boy. He has been Red Pilled but it didn’t take as opposed to being an intellectual exercise. And my daughter? Well naturally she doesn’t want to know. When I told her she wouldn’t be happy until she found a man she could willingly submit to – she exploded. We avoid the subject. I don’t expect to get anywhere with her until she hits the wall in 6 years. And maybe not even then. She is an extraordinary beauty. It could insulate her until at least 40.

    Face it. Most men prefer to be dominated. It is less effort. Or at least seems like it. And women these days? They think they know what they want. But what they want is poison.

    Me? I am never quite comfortable around Betas. I prefer the company of Alphas. Even though in many ways I’m in competition with them. So much less whining. And I have people I can trust to get things done. To carry out plans without a lot of orders. “This is the goal. Let’s work toward it.” And I don’t even have to add “in what ever way you deem best.”

  24. Two quotes perniciously nibble my psyche with this post:

    “All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.”-Sun Tzu

    “Bird law in this country is not governed by reason”-Charlie Kelly

  25. Have no illusions about it guys.

    Win or lose. Dominate or be dominated. Kill or be killed. Kill the beta within you. Kill the bunny damn it!…or it will kill you.

    George S. Patton – “No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”

    The American Revolution wasn’t won by intellectually luxurious pampering fantasy ideals of “freedom” and “liberty”. It was won by men who rose up in the middle of the night during a freezing shit storm blizzard… AGAINST ALL ODDS,….trudged across frozen land sick with bleeding feet and little provisions to blast the brains out of others who served a tyrant that was trying to dominate them. These were not men who were concerned with “growing” or finding their “real selves”, mental masturbation, or counting ju ju beads. They were simply men who refused to be slaves.

    The other side will not relent unless forced by powers they cannot control.

    Make small concessions only for greater wins. Sacrifice pawns only to facilitate check mate. Lose battles only to deceive and win the war.

    This is the way of life and it will not be changing. This is how life continues and optimizes itself.

  26. @M Simon,

    You are absolutely correct. Most men want to live in bondage. It’s easy and feels safe. Someone else makes all the decisions and everything just “works out”. Of course it does no such thing.

    I still have a blue pill dream once a week. It’s taken me years just to get to this point. Coming out of it and trying to find a place where I can be happy is going to be an eternal struggle. I don’t think I’ll ever finish taking the red pill because part of accepting it is knowing you are always on. It’s not that you “have to be”. You just are.

    At night watching Netflix? You are still on because what you watch is going to affect your life forever. It all is. For a long time it was hard for me to just relax. I did get a lot done but I did not enjoy it. Learning to relax and enjoy things has come just far slower then I would like.

    I’m still struggling with figuring out how to have a relationship with women that I enjoy. I just feel like we are competing all the time. And most of them are really dumb and bad at this game. They think they are men. It’s hard for me to respect them as women. Feminism has turned them into being only good at sex and nothing else. And all women have a vagina.

  27. @ M Simon
    You know what woman I can talk Red Pill with? My mother. Why? She married and Alpha. She gets women. When I was growing up neither of them articulated it.

    I can tell my wife about Red Pill but not everything.
    Self+1 = she agrees.
    Hypergamy = she agrees.
    Dad Bod = she laughed at that.

    I don’t tell her the sex stuff or it will spoil it. If sex isn’t organic it’s ruined.

    I think we’d all like to know how much Rollo’s wife knows about Red Pill. In my mind the more she knows the more that knowledge risks ruining everything.

    More importantly I’d like to see the Mother’s Day Card he gave her on Sunday. 😎

  28. In RooshV comments on the linked threat La_Mode commented “I’m convinced there’s two kinds of “red pill”, and the valley between them is basically the grand canyon.
    Blue pill who became red pill, and naturally red pill. I knew most people were idiots when I was a kid.
    In short, cynicism is essentially red pill.”

    I was red pill while in college. I knew most people were idiots and I went my own way. But that prevented me from bonding with a gang of guys and that basically made me isolationist. I managed OK with that, but isolationism is DHV and potentially a way to shot yourself in the foot, socially. I have recovered from this in the last two years in a remarkable fashion thanks to Tomassi and Donovan.

    “Law 18: Do Not Build Fortresses to Protect Yourself— Isolation is Dangerous
    The world is dangerous and enemies are everywhere— everyone has to protect themselves. A fortress seems the safest. But isolation exposes you to more dangers than it protects you from-it cuts you off from valuable information, it makes you conspicuous and an easy target. Better to circulate among people, find allies, mingle. You are shielded from your enemies by the crowd.

    You cannot entirely remove yourself from the Game. You can cede the governance of your participation in intersexual dynamics to whatever or whomever you think may control it, but you cannot recuse yourself from its influences. This is a foundational truth I think some MRAs and the more isolationist MGTOWs believe they can in some way buffer for themselves. They believe that not playing the Game is a preferable situation to “dealing” with the means and efforts necessary to “succeed” with women.”

    @Rollo
    “I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.”

    I never had the trauma or the crisis. Your efforts at explaining red pill and articulating game came to me from my inspiration. Not desperation. I never had the trauma and the red pill never scared me. I read Straus’s “The Game” way back when and was totally fascinated by it. But I couldn’t fit into how to be less blue in marriage until 10 years after it came out. Thanks to you, Athol Kay 1.0 and a few red pill male friends I put together an ideology that put me back on track. Red pill awareness and game implementation has been getting me to where I want to be. It literally took me twelve months (two years ago) to figure out how to understand and deal with marriage-long shit tests, but I finally did and after that it was all downhill/downstream in terms of effort.

    Rollo: “We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.”

    Like minded collectives of men are on the side helping men at the individual level. It is a “grass roots” level. You can’t have a strong collective if the components are weak. In the military (which I know nothing about) you have groups that span from 2 to 5 to 15 to perhaps 25, 50, to thousands. I really don’t know, but there are all these small to large groups of men that work into a whole. Me personally I can be stronger individually with a male only space of 5 men to interact with on a semi-regular basis. And 15 men on a less regular basis. And a totally separate group of country club men in a male/female space to covertly talk about bettering our red pill existence as men.
    The Jack Donovan exposition as a way of men is as non-prescriptive as how to proceed as your The Rational Male book is. He is not giving an isolationist view incompatible with your vast audience. The Sun WuGong show will only enhance, not detract from the overall blog reaching out to those that are willing to hear the messsage. A small group of men extracting value from a vetted gang, in keeping with the evolutionary psych principles of how men are behaviorally adapted and how the operate from hind brain hard-wiring. I have a small gang of 5 guys that are 100% like-minded. (One other red pill INTJ man I can go to hang out with as a mentor is like finding a vein of gold). And they give me the confidence to open up to a larger group, whether online here, a Hunting forum, at my country club, to my patients, to the larger world. The way of the gang is not hunkering down, it is protecting your interest and reaching out. It’s not a competition among men in groups, it is our evolutionary nature to have strength, courage, mastery and honor among a group of men, where women, children and elders are provided for, but after safety and battles are won.
    Online here, Strength has a surrogate as “intellectual online debate”. You can see lately, or as always some commentators are really flailing away. With weak arms. Other’s very strong.

    Another shout out to Ian Ironwood. I love your writing skill. It is excellent. Thank you for your contributions to the manosphere.

  29. Not Born This Morning
    May 12th, 2015 at 9:03 pm

    Very nice. The concept of strategic defeat is not well understood and much less practiced than understood.

    Washington won that war with more defeats than victories.

  30. I was reading an interview of Chris Rock yesterday and was thinking about how the best comics are very perceptive about people and many times have ideas discussed in conversations concerning red pill thinking. Their acts use cleverness and insight, vs many comics that use pandering techniques, usually to women with the same things that fill most commercials with the men are dumb, women are smart and have to fix his screw-ups.
    In the interview Chris Rock talked about his past, his routines, and his divorce. And it seems the best comics are very good at laying out and explaining many of the dynamics or male/female interactions, and use lots of red pill thinking. But they don’t seem to be able to implement them in the lives off stage. They know about red pill thinking, know how women are and what they do, why the do, and what they respond to. They can warn you about, make you laugh at it’s absurdity, but they’re too overwhelmed at the thought of implementing it in their on lives. Like a knowledgeable coach who can think of a great plan but could never translate that into doing well when it came to being in an actual game.
    And I also was thinking how that kind of insight actually can be isolating. Chris Rock was asked about how he’s doing now that he’s divorced, and he admitted to sometimes he’s fine and other times he’s maddening lonely, I think is how he put it.

  31. StringsofCoins

    May 12th, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    And most of them are really dumb and bad at this game. They think they are men.

    My daughter is not dumb – she has a degree in ChemE – one of the hardest engineering subjects out there – what with the required thermodynamics. She was near the top of her class.

    But she is profoundly unhappy because she does not get her female side – at all. Feminism has done a profound disservice to women. Maybe 10% of women want to be men. Feminism has convinced them that they ALL do. There will be a reaction. There always is.

  32. sjfrellc
    May 12th, 2015 at 9:10 pm

    “I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds.

    If a man comes to Red Pill late that is absolutely necessary. Old habits are hard to change.

    I do not think that anything will save the country: unless through war and revolution, when those who wish to survive will have to think and act for themselves according to their desperate needs, and not by some rotten yardstick of convention.

    http://deoxy.org/annex/Eight_Lectures_on_Yoga.pdf

  33. @M Simon
    May 12th, 2015 at 8:43 pm

    Wow, that’s the most you’ve typed in a while. Good stuff. What is this about only typing with one hand?

    It is tremendously interesting and fascinating to have the thought that alphas have percolated through your family lineage.

    I got something that my father and I were like the 79% percentile of the 80/20 beta/alpha. And the lack of the 21% was mainly the physical. The mental was amped up into the 93-95% dependent on the context.

    I had some red pill epiphanies last year when I delved into MBTI personalities. Another thing that Rollo would dismiss as Jungian, so therefore suspect. Jung was for the Feminine imperative what Marx was for Socialism/Communism. The devil. And Meyers-Briggs analysis does not hold for the masses, only for those that are well outside the median on a bell curve. Either the left or the right at least one standard deviation if not two for more valid analysis.

    Along side some of the last two posts, intellectualism and how it interferes with red pill awareness and game has been discussed. I am completely at ease and congruent with my polar personality type. The more I can play to the strengths and minimize the weaknesses, the better my game is.

    That being said, there are MBTI types that are better for Game as I saw in a recently discovered thread in the RooshV forums.

    http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-10657.html
    You can see how some of the commentators there are not polar and can change over time, invalidating the whole analysis. But if you are polar (and I am) it can be a valuable tool. It is just a tool, not an ideology.

    16 personalities. com is a site I like.

    A branch of Game has also included analyzing your prospective female partner for her personality type.

    I’m just saying that as a game tactic, this is valuable info. And for those moralists, it is amoral. It makes you a better man to your spouse/STR/LTR whatever.

  34. Morpheus,

    . It is easier and more comforting to simply see the “happy couples” in the park with their kids

    I assure you, struggle comes more days than not. Everyone watches the highlight reel: no one watches the Sausage Factory.

    Red Pill tore my heart out and spat in the burning hole. I’ll be honest. But that’s on me. I was 18 when my friend showed me Ladder Theory, right before High School Grad, and I found Roissy that summer, right ’round ’05 or ’06.

    But did I do anything with it?

    Nahhhh. I was a passive little runt. I had no idea how to talk to people in general, girls in specific, and anything smelling of effort reeked like day-old manure.

    Eh, I wasn’t a great kid. Something in my head said “you’ll fail, you’ll fail, you’ll fail” over and over again. Like dumb kids and tests or something? I don’t know. I remember my first summer job, I was terrified of the freakin’ nacho cheese dispenser.

    Red Pill was a real blast of cold water, right to the face, BUDS style. I didn’t like it.

    But Red Pill gave me everything I have today…didn’t have jack when I was Blue Pill. Gotta pay the ideology it’s due. Most days have a struggle: hell I remember at the start of my own relationship, I made my current Wife cry…well, every single day. But she didn’t meet my expectations, so what do I care?

    Things are better now.

    Something to keep in mind, the Machines knew about the Red Pill and they knew about Neo. Hell, they DESIGNED it into the system. That’s the whole spiel at the end of the Reloaded. The Oracle came up with Choice, which makes the system stable (though increasingly instable), the Architect develops a reboot whereby The One gives his code back to the Matrix and the whole thing resets to 100% stability.

    Thing is, how do you convince the One to do that? They graft an empathy code on the poor One, make him love humanity, and he won’t kill humanity, so he gives himself up. If he doesn’t comply, all humanity dies.

    Neo, though. The process went wrong. Really wrong. He doesn’t love humanity. He loves Trinity. He’ll do whatever it takes to save her.

    That’s what starts Revolution. Also, the Architect is a dip-shit. He created an auto-balance equation, which makes Smith stronger, inversely proportional to Neo. Dumb program. Nearly kills the system.

    I guess the point is, the system is inherently stable, until you have a sufficient number of Red Pillers, who inherently kill the system and create all these “miracles” that make the Blue Pillers think “WTF?”

    But the Matrix knows that, and deals with the Red Pillers accordingly. It’s only when the Oracle needs to change things, that she allows things to change.

    You need an internal power-broker to buy-in or you have nothing.

    People mentioning the American Revolution:
    Yeah, the Continental Army won, but in part because English Parliament doesn’t want to tax English people to burn down the colonies. A fully committed Britain can torch the colonies at leisure and remains unconquerable. You’re talking about a nation that fought France for over a decade because “why the hell not” and spent most of the 19th century squabbling with Russia over irrelevant scraps of land in Central Asia. That pacified the whole of India with maybe a few thousand troops.

    A lot of Brits believed in the American cause, or America in general, enough that they aren’t just going to burn us all alive. You aren’t going to get that treatment from the Blue Pill establishment, which views you scarcely more kindly than they few CommuNazis,

    Okay, enough Martinis for the night!

  35. Best way to bring up the subject is to lead with observations cloaked in questions. “When was the last time she ever expressed any gratitude for you working a shit job so she can have a nice house in the suburbs?”…”So she finds the time to go to the gym 5 days a week, but can’t find the time to fuck you for 20 minutes every other week?” And so on.

    Then make it less specific to him and more general. “Look, no matter what women say, no matter what some damn feminist says, women want their husbands to lead. Just because they want their way doesn’t mean they want the responsibility of being in charge.”

    Then turn the focus back on him. Get him to do something for himself (weekend trip, going fishing, etc.) that he ordinarily doesn’t do anymore because of his wife. Ask him what’s the worst thing that will happen if he goes ahead and does said thing anyway. “She’ll deny you sex? Hmmm, seems she already is.” “She’ll throw a fit? Let her.”

    But don’t over-persist in trying to push the RP. At some point, you have to step back and let the poor bastard either sink or swim.

  36. “…but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him?”

    Why indeed, Tomassi?

    “However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy.”

    You don’t say??!

    You work so hard to create a Matrix of your very own, a world without love, a world full of wounded and broken men who only perceive women as conquests, as biological units to be controlled and manipulated for the purpose of a never ending sexual harvest. It’s heart breaking to watch Tomassi, but it is no more representative of reality then the so called blue pill world you also imagine.

    You deprive ourselves of all that is beautiful in the world, you wall yourself off from intimacy with women, and at the end of your lives you will realize that all you have done is to reap the wind. It doesn’t have to be that way you know, there is a better way.

  37. Excellent post, and yet again, it seems to deal with stuff that is currently on my mind.

    Been Red Pill “aware” for, what, 4-5 years now I think, but while I understand intellectually many of the concepts, I find myself realizing that I am only SLOWLY accepting them internally.

    Why?

    Well, yes, because I’ve been conditioned, because it’s hard to wrap your head around things that are so alien to you.

    But also because it is an increasing mind-fuck.

    The first hump to get over was realizing how much shit I was clueless about, how just A LITTLE of that fucking information would have helped, but it was nowhere to be found, leaving me miserable when I could have been a lot goddamn happier.

    YEARS wasted there. Potential pissed away.

    I am getting behind that (mostly), but what comes next is Eldelwiess was talking about, about realizing things like:

    “It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.”

    The image of women that I had desired is a chimera, and seeing them as they are, even beginning to do so, I find myself asking, “So what was the point again?”, an awful lot.

    I don’t have an answer to that question with about half of my life over (if I am lucky).

    I am married to someone who is a decent person but…

    I KNOW she ain’t into me, not like I want and feel more and more like I deserve, and frankly, good person she is, I feel the same way. Hell, she’s helped me feel the same way because I have come to see her behavior for what it is, self-centered, self-interested.

    I realize that if I want her to be more into me, I could try really working on myself, going full tilt Red Pill and all that shit, and when I am done, it might work, but…

    *If* it really works, then won’t it probably work on other women? And it does, if I can do better…

    So, no, you DON’T try to unplug someone firmly enmeshed in the Matrix (the analogy is goddam perfect, keep using it) unless they need triage, because they will resist it and resent you, or they will accept it and resent you.

    Let me amend that.

    Don’t do it to someone whose locked IN to the Blue World via marriage or such, because speaking from experience, it leaves you in a very uncomfortable place. You are now aware of the Red World, but are tied to the Blue One, and now you have to figure out something other than just walking away.

    Now, with someone who is plugged in, bolted in if you will, no reason you can’t point out certain things, issues or insights you have. When you seem to have supernatural powers to figure shit out, SOME may come to you asking questions. Maybe then they can accept the answers.

  38. sjfrellc
    May 12th, 2015 at 9:41 pm

    I went to a family reunion in the summer of 2009. At the museum of an airbase I won’t mention because it would give too many things away. The Alphas were all strutting their stuff. All of them. And there was a very large room full. One of my cousins (female) is a famous opera singer. There were business men, lawyers, and ambassadors.

    I was lucky that I had a some hardware and software that flew in some of the aircraft that were on display. It impressed those I mentioned it to. So despite being in financial straits most of my life, I held my own.

    The finest moment for me was meeting my cousin who had a radio parts store (quite famous back in the day) that I frequented as a kid. When I told him I had become an aerospace engineer he lit up. He was near 100 and had two nurses hovering over him. Where ever you are these days Leo, I wish you the very best.

  39. insanitybytes22 – “You deprive ourselves of all that is beautiful in the world, you wall yourself off from intimacy with women, and at the end of your lives you will realize that all you have done is to reap the wind. It doesn’t have to be that way you know, there is a better way.”

    Intimacy? HA! But please tell us what we’re depriving ourselves of. Or is it your kind being deprived?

  40. @ Not born and M. Simon – Revolution/force is the only thing that will change this. Taking political power away from women is the only cure. NotBorn – you are so correct about the real nature of how the world works. I’m constantly amazed by how disconnected from reality most people are when it comes to the struggle that life itself is. We over-reproduce and not everyone makes it. Human groups struggle with each other for power and land and prestige and to save their cultures or for jobs or whatever – and that is the source of all human progress. We are lied to every day about power and conflict, and end up with a population of useless shitheads who have no idea how the security, wealth and liberty they enjoy was purchased. It was purchased just as you described, NotBorn. Great stuff, really.

    M. Simon – Consider the literature on social change and you might rethink how 15% can have a huge effect. No revolution has ever had a majority. In fact, all you need to do is exercise positive control over some key institutions and about 25% of a population to overthrow a govt and country. Even then, they don’t have to be believers. A cadre of 5% or so who are willing to use brutal force and exercise control over the 25% is all that is required. One can also recruit external allies, such as other nations as the U.S. has made a hobby of around the world. What – you guys don’t know that the U.S. funded 67 “democracy projects” in the Ukraine, including 675K on a video studio so the “revolutionaries” (read progressive socialists) could broadcast live video 24/7? The CIA got out of the revolution business – the State Dept does it now. We held training courses for Egyptian “activists” (read progressive socialists and Marxists) in Virginia. Put them up in nice hotels and fed and entertained them. Your tax dollars hard at work. Here’s a fun factoid as an aside. The second biggest busy-bodies in the Ukraine were the Dutch – and a Dutch airliner was shot down. Hmmm, gosh, why didn’t that ever make the news? Sigh…Answer: Cuz most of the dumb motherfuckers in journalism haven’t had an original thought in their entire lives – and if one of them did, it certainly died of loneliness. They basically suck the dicks of politicians all day long to gain “access”.

    But we won’t do a thing because we are a bunch of pussies. Even as we watch our entire way of life and society circle the bowl, nobody wants to be called a radical or to be seen advocating the use of force, and the very thought of spilling blood shocks your sensibilities – right? But if you actually study history carefully, one quickly realizes that force is often the only thing that does cause real, lasting change.

    Most amusing? Rollo might have to delete this post so he doesn’t draw weird govt attention – while the govt has a monopoly on force. Madison claimed “revolution is my divine right” – but not anymore I guess. Finally, know what I’ve said here breaks no laws. Sedition has a very high threshhold (case law and pushback by the people did that) and I’m nowhere near it.

    Just sayin’…

  41. A Definite Beta Guy
    May 12th, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    All you say is true. And it may have been decisive. But the Brits couldn’t divide and conquer as they did in India. And that gave them a near insurmountable problem back in that day. A 3,000 mile logistics train over an ocean.

    The French Navy only had to help us for two weeks (all they could spare) to seal the deal. The Brits didn’t care to raise another Army for the colonies. They had the French to deal with.

    But they got their revenge by burning Washington about 20 years later. We have since become fast friends. Which overall is a very good thing. The early unpleasantness now just history.

  42. Guys,

    I am shocked fewer of us bring up the economy in this discussion.

    I am in my 20’s, so perhaps younger than most of you, however, not talking about the red pill because it gets people to call you misogynistic.

    FUCKING OF COURSE.

    Does Rollo have to spell it OUT THAT clearly for us. That’s basic, bread and butter, softball … T-BALL.

    Its the DEBT that’s killing the young men. DEBT. I Know.

    Once game is figured out, a few years at most to master the fundamentals, the Economy is THE THING for the Young Men.

    Is any other 20’s to early 30’s guys out there…. ANYONE.

  43. Glenn
    May 12th, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    As you know I oppose Prohibition. Every chance I get. It is a delicious struggle for me because:

    I’m getting the Left to fight against State Power.

    Which is another way of saying I’m double crossing them. Openly. And they LOVE it.

    =================

    And I leave this little ditty around:

    Every tax, every regulation comes with it an army of bureaucrats and behind that an army (with guns) of enforcers.

    It is having an effect.

    ==================

    And just like the White Knights on the right re: men’s issues, I have the Right fighting me on Prohibition. It is all too delicious for words. None the less as you can see – I have a few.

  44. @ rugby11ljh

    @Nathan
    “debt and blue pill ideas towards women are the twin daggers in the hearts of men”

    I can see that

    Thank you. Needed that validation. Though I might be the only one.

  45. You work so hard to create a Matrix of your very own, a world without love, a world full of wounded and broken men who only perceive women as conquests, as biological units to be controlled and manipulated for the purpose of a never ending sexual harvest.

    Are you lost? Shouldn’t you be trolling over at Alpha Game. I’m sure Vox misses you…

  46. Seraph – “The image of women that I had desired is a chimera, and seeing them as they are, even beginning to do so, I find myself asking, ‘So what was the point again?’, an awful lot.”

    Me too.

    As a wannabe artist I am forever searching for my muse. I think that is the point for all us when practicing the art of being a man. We want inspiration, and something to work for. Something to train and direct our idealism toward. What we seem to get with too many women is something to slave for, or fight against.

    When Rollo talk of danger’s I think this is biggest one. The realization that what we wanted doesn’t exist and what does exist is really not all that desirable.

  47. The hardest aspect of the Red Pill for me is that it really taints my past. It kind of empties it out. A lot of those feverish eras of my life were concocted with blue pill ingredients. So much emotion/behavior/experience/mystique/narrative/expectation was developed through the FI prism. So it kind of erases a lot except for the tangible; sports/outdoors/fitness. Also, reading is somehow ‘tangible’ in my memory bank and a good thing to look back on. Not sure I could explain how it’s tangible, but it’s an enduring good memory. But most social memories are just—‘poof’—gone. Maybe not childhood buddies but once I started trying to configure myself for the approval of women, then it just went off the rails. Not real from that point on.

    The lamentations and drama over failing to win approval as well as the golden memories of being approved of. Both go into the same toilet. Fine with me. I’m not really lamenting it and I’m much better equipped for my future. But so many memories under those old frameworks have been invalidated. I realize that I not only pedestalized women but kind of pedestalized all of humanity (no homo). I had establish successful (and extensive) human interaction and approval as the goal. It’s not. So there is a reality now in my life that’s almost eerie. The extensive, complex psychological glories of human relationships are just not coming and shouldn’t have ever been the objective.

  48. Nathan
    May 12th, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    The whole “school” thing is a racket. You want an education? It is free. I became an aerospace engineer with no degree.

    National debt is another thing. It is surmountable if we stopped hobbling business.

    ===============

    Cannabis – fully exploited as medicine could save us between $1/2 trillion and $1 1/2 trillion a year. That pretty much kills the debt. If we don’t waste it. Even so – such a thing would be a tremendous boost to the economy.

    But the currently entrenched have other interests. Interests which cannabis would destroy. But they are losing. In 10 years we will look back and wonder how we could have been so stupid. For so long.

  49. In the movie, Neo takes the Red Pill and leaves the matrix.

    In real life, we take the Red Pill…and what? We left the lies behind…and? MGTOW? Chase notch counts? Leave the country and roam the earth? Live the life I want to have (as an alpha would)? Follow my every whim? Marry a virgin and make babies (been there, done that)? Make tons of money (did that too)?

    Respect to those men that do pursue their dreams, but…

    Now what? Where is the PURPOSE?

    On my death bed…what will have MATTERED?

  50. I do not think ANY man is 100% blue pill and completely unaware of red pill truth. The signs have been around all along and progressively becoming more and more obvious to the point that today hypergamy is blatant in your face proudly displaying itself. Today there is nothing subtle about it. NO man can deny its existence and the fact he is at least potentially a victim and likely to some extent actually a victim.

    People do not fight back until so much is taken from them that it becomes obvious they are trapped, enslaved, lost their dignity and their identity is threatened. This is what has happened to men progressively more and more over the past 100 years. Masculinity has taken progressively more and more of a beating in the pursuit of feminine primacy to the point that now fundamental masculine drives are distorted in an effort to effectively psychologically castrate the western human male. Todays definition of masculinity includes homosexuality, female “sensitivity”, “getting in touch with your feeeeeelings”, “being vulnerable”, etc. etc. etc…….and by definition any woman can be a man. Any man who expresses the slightest disagreement with this distorted definition of himself is immediately vilified, shamed, and defined as less evolved or defective.

    How much more will man accept of this until he has had enough? How distorted and perverted must our identity be misconstrued until we stop worrying about tiptoeing around people’s feeeeeelings? To what length of time and to what extreme distoted characterization of masculinity are you willing to be held hostage for by other people’s feeeelings?

  51. @insanity bites

    “You deprive ourselves of all that is beautiful in the world, you wall yourself off from intimacy with women, and at the end of your lives you will realize that all you have done is to reap the wind. It doesn’t have to be that way you know, there is a better way.”

    I don’t recall being ‘walled off’ from that 22 year old Korean escort with a Penthouse body a few days ago.

    Go ‘reap the wind’ from your fat wife as she farts on your leg all night after that half gallon of haagen dazs she knocked down right before bed.

  52. Now what? Where is the PURPOSE?

    On my death bed…what will have MATTERED?

    I think those are bigger existential questions that are beyond the scope of the Red Pill. Red Pill is to give you an accurate understanding of the reality of intersex dynamics. Nothing more, nothing less. It isn’t to fill the void that perhaps is left when Blue Pill lies are destroyed.

    We all return to dust, and in 200 years unless we were a great scientist, inventor, or government leader who changed the course of human history, none of us “matters”.

  53. I must travel in radically different circles as I have seen 0 fallout for Red Pill evangelism. I have not lost contracts, friends, bidness partners etc etc. Same for my politics, which are a good more hostile to the current approved thought then the Red Pill. This includes my military time with a fairly high level clearance, being rated on things like EO and my current position working more directly progressive government officials ans employees

  54. It’s not misogyny that your red pill imaginings breed, it’s actually misandry.

    “I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy.”

    Think about that, people. There is truth to be found there.

  55. Are the feminine beta promoters tiptoeing around our emotions? Hell no. We are required to shut the fuck up and eat shit.

  56. This reminds me of a professional failing of mine.

    I work in healthcare; the therapy I do is a bit obscure as of yet but if you think of me as a physical therapist you won’t be far off the mark. So I’ve studied pain theory and chronic pain intensively, and I can tell you that psychological stressors are huge contributors to a significant majority of intractable chronic pain cases. The pain is real, but is a downstream effect of chronic stress and central nervous system hyper-activation.

    I had a patient who was suffering from chronic pain who put a lot of faith in me, and whom I had some personal connection with. She was using my skills to keep herself functioning as she awaited a hip replacement surgery that I was convinced was unnecessary; I was (and am) quite sure that her pain was highly emphasized by underlying chronic psychological tensions.

    One time when working with her I brought it all up – all that I know, the research, the signs. Out came, not understanding, but ego-investments in her currently-understood paradigm. She called my theories ‘far-fetched’ and, though she tried to be kind, was clearly hardly on board with me trying to give her new perspectives – she only wanted me to be an assistant within her current perspective.

    She didn’t come back. I didn’t see her again before her surgery. Saw her at a social function recently, she seems to be recovering well.

    I was open and up-front about my convictions with her because she had been opening up to me about her fears and trepidations about surgery, her sense of confusion about having this happen to her, and so on and I (as a typical man) interpreted this as a want for information. Lol, she just wanted attention and reassurance from an authority figure.

    People can be hard to teach. Teaching is an art; learning when you can teach is another. If you’re not astute, passion and conviction can – rather than convince – make you seem that much more a quack.

  57. Washington’s geniuses was not on the battlefield but in his ability to play politics, keep an army in the field and his ability to run a good intell/ counter intell game. All of which can and does win wars, but as I understand things, the English wants to end things because the war was costing them a lot of cash for very little foreseen return on investment

    All of which are classic ways for the under dog to pull off a win.

  58. “Cannabis – fully exploited as medicine could save us between $1/2 trillion and $1 1/2 trillion a year. That pretty much kills the debt. If we don’t waste it. Even so – such a thing would be a tremendous boost to the economy.”

    Nah.

    Keep in mind there is always something else on the other side of the equation. In your example, there is the healthcare and pharma industries that would be destroyed by the lack of sales in traditional medications. Those trillions you speak of have to come from somewhere.

    Current TOTAL USA financial obligations (not just national debt), account for 91% of our total value as a country. Meaning, if the USA were an individual, they would have to sell 91% of everything they own to pay off their debt. That’s called homelessness.

    These countries that have massive debt have only two options. 1. Default. War. Starvation. Second dark ages, essentially. 2. Increase the volume of the money supply and therefore increase the income compared to the debt. Also known as inflation. Why do you think they are printing money like drunken whores?

    If you went from making $30k a year to $200k a year, your $1,000 monthly mortgage starts looking pretty good.

    If you have a job. And you can afford $1,500 for a loaf of bread. And assuming that Wal-Mart can afford to ship it to your local store when diesel is $50.00 a gallon.

  59. CaveClown
    May 12th, 2015 at 10:45 pm

    You have to find your own reasons. What works for most people is being a humanitarian. Lifting up the down trodden. I did that through technology. You have a computer on your desk in (very small) part because of work I did. Without my work it might have taken 3 or 6 months longer. Multiply that by 2 billion lives and it turns out to be fairly significant. That amounts to about 6 million man-years. So I have more than paid for my existence.

    Anything else I do is gravy.

    Ever hear of Polywell Fusion? Look it up.

  60. Rollo: So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

    Perhaps, also, when the students are ready the teacher finds they are ready. I’ve had it a few times that, when presented a circumstance of need from another person, I suddenly found myself able to address it. Even though I’d not thought about teaching my perspective to another before.

    I seem to have transformed the self-perspective of an old high school acquaintance recently. I didn’t try to, he was just going off on this whole negative tangent about himself and the world that I found I couldn’t tolerate, so I lit up and threw ideas out about spiritual perspective I haven’t thought about for ten years and that I’ve never taught.

    I’ve interacted with him often before, but he had never been ready to hear me.

  61. “Insanity” says “Think about that, people. There is truth to be found there.”

    Common sense says “think about what you experienced and what you want to experience, not what other people want you to think”

  62. That first sentence was confusing. To reword – ‘Perhaps, also, when the student is ready to learn the teacher finds that they are ready to teach as well.’

  63. Where on earth do you find these pictures? Did you have to photoshop that one? I can’t imagine a stock picture site having something that conveniently appropriate.

  64. CaveClown
    May 12th, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    The “industry” that you speak of is – given what we now know – a waste. Yes it will be a VERY BIG WRENCH to give all that up. None the less we will be giving that up. And yes – a $trillion no longer flowing through the economy WILL cause a depression. And then we will be better off for it.

    But every new technology does that. Blast furnaces put a LOT of iron workers out of business. Automobiles made possible by blast furnaces made horses a relic.

    And default is probably the end of the game. So what? The steel mills and silicon foundries will not go away when the debt does. And that is the REAL wealth.

    You want to insulate yourself from the fall? Get and cultivate a talent, get and cultivate salable knowledge, own (outright) productive capacity.

  65. I think insanity is a woman, is she not?

    Yes, she was the resident troll over at AG, but she found her way over here

  66. @insanitybytes22

    It doesn’t have to be that way you know, there is a better way.

    Oh this’ll be fucking priceless. Hang on…

    Alright, enlighten me.

  67. “I think those are bigger existential questions that are beyond the scope of the Red Pill. Red Pill is to give you an accurate understanding of the reality of intersex dynamics. Nothing more, nothing less. It isn’t to fill the void that perhaps is left when Blue Pill lies are destroyed.
    We all return to dust, and in 200 years unless we were a great scientist, inventor, or government leader who changed the course of human history, none of us “matters”.”

    Reading about Napoleon’s war against Russia.

    Went in with 450,000 men. Came back with 23,000.

    That’s a whole lot of expendable.

    Perhaps there’s freedom in knowing that ultimately none of this matters?

    At the very least, it makes IDGAF much easier. Amused mastery at some point. Hit and miss right now…too much thinking. lol

  68. “own (outright) productive capacity”

    I do. Little thing called gasoline. Me thinks people need it no matter what. (so long as there is wti or brent available, I should be good)

  69. CaveClown
    May 12th, 2015 at 11:20 pm

    The real trick is to be able to hold two opposing thoughts at the same time. IDGAF and IDGAF.

    Be excellent in all you do. Do not get attached to “lust for results.” The thrill is in the going – getting there is incidental.

  70. Forge the Sky – “Where on earth do you find these pictures?”

    Can’t speak for Rollo, but I could build that prop, set up, shoot, and digitally process that photo in about an hour and a half. No photoshop necessary.

  71. “Now what? Where is the PURPOSE? On my death bed…what will have MATTERED?”

    No, because what men really need to is see their higher selves reflected in a woman’s eyes. They need intimacy and love and a relationship with their Creator. They need to feel respect, they need to know they have value and worth in the world. Without those things, at the end of your life you will realize you have reaped the wind and spent a lifetime trying to pour empty things into the abyss of your souls.

  72. When I was in highschool and college the guys I hung out with would laugh and accuse each other of being “pussy whipped” if we started whining about girl problems. We talked straight about these things and encouraged each other to not tolerate bullshit. We mercilessly ribbed each other for taking crap and acting AFC. This was straight forward humor, great comradery and helped us avoid oneitis, man up, grow up, stop being wusses, stop wasting energy on the bottomless pit of subjugating ourselves to women fantasies and focus on self development. Seems like most men are missing this friendship today. A perverted superficial half ass imposter known as “male bonding” seems to have usurped real friendship.

  73. @ M Simon

    “The thrill is in the going – getting there is incidental.”

    There needs to be balance. For me, the fun of exploiting outcomes based individuals only comes second to guys who embody what you said above and get “deal heat”.

    Sans self awareness and discipline, either can get you killed and eaten.

  74. Insanity –

    This is out of my bag of troll biscuits.

    “They need to feel respect, they need to know they have value and worth in the world.”

    I RESPECT MYSELF AND I DO NOT NEED YOU OR ANY OTHER BULLSHIT ARTIST TO REPSECT MYSELF.

  75. “I RESPECT MYSELF AND I DO NOT NEED YOU OR ANY OTHER BULLSHIT ARTIST TO REPSECT MYSELF.”

    Nothing says self-confident better than shrieking hysterically in all caps.

  76. You deprive ourselves of all that is beautiful in the world, you wall yourself off from intimacy with women, and at the end of your lives you will realize that all you have done is to reap the wind.

    I’ll be sure to bring that up with my wife of almost 19 years right after she’s done reaping my whirlwind tonight.

  77. I’ve had great sex with a number of women. My wife and I have had great sex at least 3000 times, I love my daughter more than anything….but I’m not intimate enough. Am I missing something? Oh shit! WTF?

  78. Still hungry?…..here’s another biscuit.

    Yes we all know sex is bad and evil when men are horny for it. It is evil bad terrible masculine conquest.

  79. @NBTM, I get where your sentiment is coming from. The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t disqualify you from the consequences of that truth, nor does it cancel the pain required to learn from it or promote it.

  80. No, because what women really need to is see their higher selves reflected in a man’s eyes.

    Hard to do that when they’re wiping another man’s cum from their mouths for the umpteenth time…

  81. @insanitybytes22
    What you are preaching is the highest form of codependency known to humanity. You’ve distilled the essence of all blue pill neediness into a concise paragraph. The dangers of this kind of codependent white knight mentality are so evident in today’s society: high rates of male depression, skyrocketing male suicide rates, men and boys adrift in their lives desperately searching for some woman to “complete them.”
    From their own mouths, women have stated repeatedly that they despise this male need for comfort and companionship. The alpha male is what most women seek today and will settle for a neutered beta once their looks are gone or their careers adrift.
    We are not the eunuchs you seek. Go run your con elsewhere.

  82. @Rollo-

    Yes. I know…no pain no gain. Nothing sacrificed nothing learned. Maybe this is why we say “pay” attention. We are “paying” with our time and energy to focus when we learn. We are sacrificing time and energy that could be expended (or wasted) elsewhere.

  83. Regarding this post Tomassi, https://therationalmale.com/2015/02/15/end-of-life-issues/

    Let’s just look at this one sentence: “Red Pill awareness, what I call positive masculinity.”

    You alleged ideal of “positive masculinity” simply traps bitter men in endless rage and anger so they roam about the internet calling random women “rancid vaginas, fat whores, shoot them all and let God sort them out,” and endless other examples of outright hatred and violent revenge fantasies. You don’t see this because you are not on the receiving end of any of it, but it is far from “positive masculinity.” It is a pathetic caricature of what being a man is all about. And no, many of your red pill evangelizers never do get over their “rage phase,” they spend a lifetime wallowing in hatred and bitterness and venting all their frustration on the whole of womankind.

    You don’t care about the collateral damage, do you? In fact, you don’t even see it. You cannot even conceive of the possibility that your precious red pill theories have a genuine ugly side to them.

  84. insanitytrites22 you still cling to staring at the shadows on the back of the cave wall when Men have shown you there’s a sun shining outside the cave.

    You can stay ignorant, that’s your prerogative, but even your misguided religiosity is rife with the infection of the feminine imperative and you know that’s the truth.

    Your concept of love is the result of a conditioning you’re too afraid to think critically about because it’s reveals to you a truth that would disqualify you from any alternative.

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