Secret of the Red Pill

B3FXCT conspiracy

Joker79 from the SoSuave forum relates a common red pill dilemma;

I’m a huge fan of the rational male and I can’t deny that it helped my a lot in these years. I’m spinning plates and I can literally pull out from the crowd the girl I want to bang. I find really amusing though when I challenge some chicks with the uncomfortable truth of the matrix (e.g. their hypergamy, decreasing SMV with age, the feminine mystique and so on). I wonder which is the common (and the worst) reaction you got from your female friends, girlfriend, women you’re meeting daily when you show them that you know the game they’re playing? I usually get “pffff NAWALT” or “you’re a player” or they seems to be butthurt once they realize I turned the table against them… nothing concrete of course because they know I’m right. any meaningful and/or funny experience?

Synergy1 adds the most common response:

I don’t openly discuss the RM and other theories with people, but its funny how a lot of the truths are actually accepted by people. Just the other day I had a discussion on how if you insult a man its funny, but if you mention a fact about women, it’s considered misogyny. The coworkers’ comment was that women are weaker than men are and I responded – why do you hate America. It got some laughs.

Some people get it. These are the same people who have been through divorce and see things for as they are. The younger guys who are still in fairytale land don’t understand or buy into it.

Joker79:

It’s not really discussing openly or starting a conversation about red pill topic, it’s more about observing their behavior when your reaction is different from what chicks expect (e.g. walk away when you’re supposed to beg them to stay, hitting on different chicks when she’s with you and disrespects you and you’re not trying to qualify for her attention at all). More often than not you get either an annoyed reaction (he’s a player) motivated by the discomfort of her knowing that you know her strategy and how to workaround it or a butthurt behavior where she pretends not to care and avoid you (rationalization hamster spinning!)

Think about it this way – you can never tell a woman about the red pill or how Game savvy you are, you can only show her.

Demonstrate, never explicate. While it might be satisfying to overtly crush a woman’s gender perceptions, being overt will always come off like conceit, or bitterness or melancholy.

If your purpose is to alienate and/or correct a woman you have no interest in by pointing out the brutal truths of being Game-aware, that’s certainly your prerogative, but you will never get into a woman’s pants or be more attractive to her by explaining the Game you are engaged in with her (or hope to be).

Women want a guy who Just Gets It.

She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be. Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shït test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

Remember what I’ve bolded here, the same applies to you revealing your understanding of Game. As I’ve stated many times, women may think they want the truth, but they never want full disclosure. Women want to play the Game with you, but they want it running covertly in the background, not overtly and in her face. Much of the reason the red pill, Game and the manosphere are vilified by a blue pill public is due to the overt nature of explaining the psychological and sociological mechanisms operating underneath the social conventions, ego-invested beliefs and masks we wear in engaging with the opposite sex.

The red pill strips away a comfortable veneer – we’re supposed to Just Get It, without explaining how we just get it. Men being the more pragmatic and rational sex tend to think that a reasoned approach should be the most practical one. We deduce that women ought to be just as reasonable and can handle the truth – after all the constant repetition of how women and men are the same with different genitals – so to the uninitiated, newly unplugged red pill guy it seems sensible to remove all the pretense and explain all his understanding to a woman he’s interested in.

Play with her, and play with her.

As I’ve explained before, appeals to a woman’s reason will never bear the fruit that hopeful Beta men expect it will. Women don’t want to be told how the Game works (on some limbic level they already know how it works), they want to play the Game with a Man to determine that he knows how the Game works. There is nothing so self-satisfying for a woman than for her to believe she’s figured a Man out using her (mythical) feminine intuition. Understanding this basic tenet of women is one of the most under-appreciated advantages men have in Game.

This is where the ‘Art’ in Pick Up Artist is important. Too many men believe that understanding red pill truths and the underpinnings of Game should be enough to be convincing with women, but that learning isn’t enough. Playing the Game and applying that knowledge with women without revealing an overt understanding of it is an art that must be practiced and developed to the point where adaptation and improvisation become second nature to a man. Men with this understanding are often the ones with the most comfort and facility with women – Amused Mastery is his natural state, because he knows his advantage in not revealing the secret of the red pill to any woman he’s interested in.


126 responses to “Secret of the Red Pill

  • Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)

    RM,
    I am just handing out copies of my books now…in there is all the evidence a young man needs to run 1,000 miles away from the idea of marriage.

    “5% is the new 50% if you are a man” really gets through to the young men.

    I have also started calling western women EVIL PEOPLE because they know all about these crimes being committed in the family courts and they do not say anything about them thus condoning them.

    http://www.a-man-zon.com/Books/B0000PeterNolan.aspx

  • The Lone Planet

    Screw that, feed them the ugly truth. Destroy their world.

  • jaktheberserker

    I somewhat agree with Lone Planet. More and more women (mostly single) are becoming blatant with their own masculine feminist “man-bashing”. Obviously dispelling red pill truth won’t help you get a bang, but big picture, I think it is good for everyone to swallow the red pill so that society can begin to solve the issues that plague us all. Forcing the ugly red pill down their throats melts the demon inside them. In the more civilized ages in the past men were more open about their knowledge of women’s true nature and women feared that. Women fear no consequences now because so many men have their blinders on. Pussy should no longer be the focus here, sustainability of the human race and some form of western civ should be.

  • LiveFearless

    – you can never tell a woman about the red pill or how Game savvy you are, you can only show her.

    This is similar to the the meaning of

    Sell me this pen from the movie “The Wolf of Wall Street”

    Most men will tell about the good qualities they like about the pen. But, there is a more effective way to sell the pen…

  • Sp5

    I just saw a movie that displays the hamster better than anything I’ve seen.

    It’s “Take This Waltz,” from 2011, so it’s in rotation on cable now. Written and directed by Sarah Polley, based on her divorce. Polley has an interesting genetic backstory – her father was not her mother’s husband, the mother was a cheat, too.

    Woman dumps beta who cooks for her in favor of alpha rickshaw driver/artist. It’s an interesting exposition and justification by a female of hypergamy, but validates red pill.

    IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1592281/

  • monkeywerks

    Some explaining of the red pill may be in order but circumstances will vary. I had one woman tell me that she would see through any “game” I tried to use on her. Of course she never did. It was when she was trying to hoodwink me into cohabit or marriage I had to explain to her that she was used goods and took too many cocks for me to trust her. In the end I didn’t care if she left or stayed around, but at some point a woman needs to hear some truth and not some white night BS making them feel good about their slutty behavior which all of her orbiters did. I did like the porn star sex though while it lasted.

  • Tilikum

    i need to share that explaining TRP to a girl getting a little clingy after a few months and its effect on how i see the male/female dynamic is excellent for cooling her off and resetting the expectations.

    i’m not evil, and delivered correctly, a thorough explanation of why i “just get it” has let me ease out of “i love you why won’t you marry me” into what i explain is a teaching relationship with significant benefits.

    done right, and coupled with the maxim of “5 min with an alpha is worth 5 years with a beta” makes for some interesting attempts to both qualify AND eventually, some great friendships.

    but i am a very good communicator and kind of emotionally wired like a chick so…..ymmv.

  • monkeywerks

    I am considered a natural leader and teacher so i fall into those roles easily. So I will end up teaching women I am with some truths so as to make them better than when I found them. Coming out of a marriage and entering the SMP has really been an eye opener. Mix in the red pill and I had a whole lota thinking and hurting to do. The woman I mentioned was my rebound chick, and I didn’t even want that, but the sex was good and she was fun…at first. It was as I learned more truths and I called her out on her BS she really started to get pissed. Through the sphere and what I learned I was able to temper my feelings towards her, as I should have done from the beginning.

    Anyways, where I am at now I am likely to call women out as I see them try to manipulate me, as they all will try to do at some point based on my experiences.

    I never maintained friendships with women in the past and see no reason to do so now. My thought is any woman I currently associate with I am fucking her, am going to fuck her or have fucked her in the recent past and will do so again. I just don’t believe in nonsexual female friends.

  • thegreatshebang

    It seems there are two paths.

    Path one is tun tight game, internalize it, be a woman’s Personal Alpha, maintain frame, and marry.

    Path Two is go MGTOW and look for a woman with self-knowledge and interest in the Red Pill, although she may be a needle in a haystack.

  • Jeremy

    I can’t help but think that the “demand” to “just get it” is another expressed form of the feminine imperative. As women choose to remain ignorant, they are continuing to use their facade of weakness. With professed innocence in the actual workings of romance, even within themselves, they can always demand that everything be done by the man.

    It’s no different than men simply saying, “But I don’t know how to feed and put the baby to bed, you do it.”

  • S2H

    You can’t be overt with red pill ideas to female members of your family either.

    For Christmas I was with my family and the topic came up to why I wasn’t married yet. I just said some things that I don’t remember the details of right now but mainly about the divorce laws, women my own age (38), some other red pill truth. Before I finished my sister and mother cut me off and started in lecturing me. They pulled the NAWALT and “who am I meeting that I think they would ever do something like that.” Also they mentioned I shouldn’t be “bitter” about dating and not finding the right thing.

    If you knew me you’d know I’m the farthest thing from bitter.

    Thanks for the post Rollo.

  • 8to12

    A magician never reveals his methods, because the mystery makes him seem like an artist; someone power and skills beyond others.

    The reality is magicians are mechanics. No different than the guy who changes the oil in your car or the plumber who replaces your garbage disposal. They all are simply following step-by-step procedures that will produce a desired result.

  • En-sigma

    If your purpose is to alienate and/or correct a woman you have no interest in by pointing out the brutal truths of being Game-aware, that’s certainly your prerogative, but you will never get into a woman’s pants or be more attractive to her by explaining the Game you are engaged in with her (or hope to be).

    Women want a guy who Just Gets It.

    She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how.

    Heh…Brings to mind the recent SSM/Deti episodes…

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Am I that transparent? Heheh.

    I’ve got a follow up to this coming up as soon as I’m done with my New Year’s Eve job insanity.

  • klw123

    You can’t negotiate desire. When I start lecturing girl about red pill and how fuced up the world is…then I don’t want to fuck her enough.

    Girls who are getting lots of attention from men (read: hot) don’t really care about spreading the blue pill message (I’m from europe, so I don’t know about america). So there are much less obstacles you can tumble on. When the girl is semi-attractive…she knows it and probbably trys to throw in some frame that is supposed to up her value. But it’s just pissing me off…same dynamic but switched genders…Why doesn’t she “just get it” that she can only prove her potential value by actions not by words.

    I know there are guy’s who don’t care and they just do what’s nessesary to get into pants. But I have been living deep in the matrix long enough and been hurt enough that I find it more satisfying to just tell her she’s full of shit than look past it to get an average fuck.

  • BC

    And the first rule of Fight Club is…?

    Just do it. Just be it. Don’t talk about or explain it unless the other person has already shown a) an honest interest and b) an open willingness to accept and act on it. Don’t cast pearls before swine, and don’t show your cards.

  • biff

    OK, so I agree that generally trying to teach the red pill to women is not likely to be a worthwhile endeavor.

    However, you can break off pieces of knowledge and give girls pretty useful advice. For instance, if you identify a guy who is too beta for a girl (even though he’s a great guy and she just can’t understand why she’s not hot for him), you can be pretty sure things won’t work out well. You can try to guide girls along a path that doesn’t either ignore their hypergamy or result in them chasing playboys. I’ve had girls become fascinated by the quick reads I can do and the suggestions I can make with a little info.

    Do any of you guys do this too? I would think for like family members or close (non-sexual friends) this could definitely be appreciated. For girls you want to shag in the near term probably not, although if the knowledge is delivered off-hand with amused mastery in pity as to a lesser person who hasn’t figured out her love life I don’t think it’s necessarily an attraction killer (as long as you don’t reveal too much of the dark underpinnings of why things work the way they do).

    As a happily married guy, I can’t really use the magic powers to push for sex with other women. However, some sort of modified, limited plate spinning can be beneficial for one’s marriage I think (think occasional flirtacious interaction with several hot women). However, it’s common red pill wisdom that many hot girls tend to lose interest if you don’t escalate with them quickly when you have the chance. Being a guy who seems to know stuff and occasionally deigns to provide useful insights is not a bad place to be in, though you have to avoid becoming a completely friend-zoned emotional tampon. I don’t know Rollo’s personal situation, but I guess that generally if your wife is reading your blog, you can’t really go in depth re: married man plate spinning (with all due respect to MMSL, which focuses on useful stuff that won’t offend wives)–and that’s a shame, since it would be a very useful topic for many of us married guys to compare notes on.

    Best wishes for your New Year!

  • itsme

    For Christmas I was with my family and the topic came up to why I wasn’t married yet.

    yeah, don’t answer that seriously.

    next time, try one of these responses:

    ‘why aren’t you divorced yet?’
    ‘polygamy isn’t legal’
    (if it’s your sister/mom/female cousin) ‘are you proposing to me?’
    ‘my russian mail order bride is being detained by ice’
    ‘why do you support such an outdated patriarchal institution?’

    they don’t ask why you’re not married yet out of genuine concern for you, they do it to put you on the spot, to shame you. especially if it’s the female family members initiating the interrogation.

    deal with female family members as you would any other female – don’t take them seriously. fuck with them for your own amusement. misdirect, mock, reject. i.e., game them.

  • kaos021

    That makes sense as women don’t seem to be interested in how anything works, really. They just want it to do what it’s supposed to. When was the last time a woman seemed interested in changing the oil in her car or reformatting her harddrive?

  • monkeywerks

    Family is the worst. Remember the woman if your family had a big hand in your brainwashing. They are all like that. Its sad when a boy remembers his mother going feral after she div-raped his father. Happens all the time. I even see the red flags that certain females in my family put up with their behavior that make me thing they are screwing around on their beta husbands.

    As for talking to a woman about your inner thoughts RM and many others advocate keeping them to yourself, which I agree. You speak truth to men, not women. But as with anything circumstances vary and at times it may be necessary to correct a woman’s behaviors and depending on whom she is may require some facts. This is leadership in my mind. Even with FB’s I still lead and they still come to me with their problems (financial, life course, etc). I may give some quick advice and nothing more, but if some truth can be spread than that’s a positive. I have met women who would read essays such as this and who teach their daughters these same truths, but they are very far and few between. I would rather pull a man aside and explain the facts of life to him then try to get through the hardened soul of his woman.

    And another thing, why do other men bust my balls for demanding a woman with a low N? A woman with more than 3 is just gross to me. I will still P&D her with +3, but for a relationship or any type of investment, no freaken way. But why do other men get so enraged when I explain this to them?

  • Love's Orphan

    Even men have a hard time with it. Try having a logical debate and point out the holes and you will see how fast they get frustrated and angry while they try to counter your point. A coworker of mine was mentioning yesterday how he is attracted to a woman’s personality rather than her beauty (typical eh?); I was just passing by when he said that. He was talking to two other coworkers; a 19 y/o girl (no interest in her) and a 60+ lady.

    Me: So, what do you do? Do you approach every girl regardless of beauty in order to see which one has an attractive personality? (I know i know… i am a bastard)

    Male coworker: I dont approach every girl. it makes no sense.

    Me: So, do you have any criteria?

    MC: I dont understand

    Me: what is it that makes you decide to approach a girl and start a conversation in order to see if her personality is attractive?

    MC: oh I look for the most beautiful thing about her.

    Me: So you check out her ass, her tits, etc.

    (MC laughs and blushes, female coworkers smile)

    Me: so you say that beauty is important.

    MC: no no beauty is not important, personality is.

    Me: so what do you look for in a woman?

    MC: I look for beautiful eyes and beautiful black hair.

    Me: Oh, beautiful eyes… so beauty is important.

    MC: no no it is not important.

    And we went back and forth for a few mins. I would say beauty is important and he followed the same pattern: *insert body part here* “but beauty is not important, personality is” rinse and repeat. and he would raise his voice in frustration. he finally admitted that beauty was important after the women were out of sight.

  • earl

    “Demonstrate, never explicate.”

    Sounds like a good thing for 2014.

  • Water Cannon Boy

    “why aren’t you divorced yet?”

    I think if you tried that response it would make things worse. If you said it to a female she’d just say how good their marriage is, how strong their love is, and you could have the same. Making her ask more about why aren’t you married, why don’t you want to be married, what you afraid of, etc…
    Think it might be better to blow her mind and say you’ve seen too many with too many undercurrents of problems that it doesn’t appeal to you at the moment. Might start some paranoia about what do you know that she doesn’t know.
    Now I’m curious about Love’s Orphan’s avatar.

  • earl

    The only thing about playing games is with guys…we like the rules laid out, the field of play to be set, and a game plan that leads to winning.

    Imagine that you were to “Just Get It” on how to play football without the coaches explaining anything to you. Just be yourself out there. You’d either eventually get there…but it would take a lot of pain and suffering to do it or just bow out because you couldn’t figure out what the hell is going on. This is how most men have to travel through the world of women.

    These type of blogs are probably not liked by women because men are getting an explaination on how things work which gives us the advantage over them…and it cuts down the trial and error a lot.

  • monkeywerks

    You talk to every attractive woman you meet. By default you should get a 10% success rate. If you take that 10% and game each one you should be able to get 10% of them naked. Foe example out of talking to 100 women you will meet 10 that are the better quality ones, out of that 10 you bang one. Now these are low base line numbers for no game betas bit you get the idea I hope. I have tested this and it works. My success rate was more like 25%. The hotter the average woman, the hotter the woman you will bang on average. I kept a journal but when my ex found it she threw it out. Too bad, some of those chicks were hotties I could have banged again.

    The only reason to approach a woman is if she is attractive physically. You don’t even see their real personality until much later and by that time you have been hanging around an ugly fattie if that is your baseline.

    Men who like your CW don’t understand is that women know deep down men dont like ugly chicks. Its not mean to tell women that you only date attractive women.

    Earl, women count on our ignorance. Once you seem to figure it out they may do one of two things, leave because they know you know and will not put up with any of their BS for long or they step up their girl game and prove themselves pretty good women overall. The former is the most common form what I see with red pill men. Although the men have pretty good value, the woman’s insecurities get the best of her.

  • Jeremy

    “Why aren’t you divorced yet?”

    El-Oh-El.

    Of course, such a retort would basically be a hydrogen bomb at the holiday dinner table depending on what kind of family you have. Realistically though, it should spark a serious discussion. The reality is that divorce is the primary reason men are not marrying, so why can’t the absurd divorce rate be discussed before someone imposes their desire to see their kids married? If you want your sons to marry, then f-ing deal with this crap marital legal situation you bequeathed them. Make some goddamn effort to make marriage look like a good deal to men.

    Yeah, when I think about it, I would say it. Fuck it, I would say it.

  • justincross11

    I say game the shit out of these women. Why? Because it is the most healthy option for all involved. It is the only way to balance the system. Women have had the power for years now and the red pill gives you that power back. You now have the ability to read between the lines. To see and evaluate behaviors and actions for what they truely are and for the first time (at least for me) it gives you an upper hand in gender relations. That in and of itself makes me feel better. Now I am the chooser. I am running the show and ya know what? The women love it. The red pill is only as bitter as you want it to be.

  • earl

    When it is finally internalized…it is something like this.

  • Tin Man

    Probably a bit of “ditch driving” – but after reading this article, and thinking of “game” – I wondered how many women were elite chess players there were (believe they are called Grand Masters) and ran across an article (which was old, short and uninteresting – link below), but found this comment interesting…

    Dr. T February 2, 2007 at 6:46 pm
    The question of why there are so few women grand masters was not answered by studying average groups of chess players and finding no significant differences between boys and girls or men and women. Sameness near the middle of a distribution tells us nothing about the extreme tails.

    We have not seen any women to equal Albert Einstein or Stephen Hawking or Isaac Newton or other super geniuses in physics or math. We have not seen any women chess players that have been close to the abilities of Bobby Fisher or Gary Kasparov. I do not believe that is due to discrimination or cultural biases. There are plenty of women in science and medicine, but none have been among the most elite. There is strong evidence that men have slight advantages in some areas (spatial orientation, number manipulation). Thus, it is unsurprising that the most elite mathematicians, physicists, and chess players have been men. Women have slight advantages in other areas (language and interaction skills). Thus, the best and most brilliant (in my opinion) of the computer language and compiler developers was a woman, Rear Admiral Grace Hopper, who earned her math Ph.D. in 1934 and began her computer language work in 1943.

    - See more at: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/01/why_are_men_bet.html

    There was a comment above from @kaos021 about how women don’t really care how things work. So quit trying to explain anything. And I say, Game everyone – men and woman – Game isn’t necessarily about getting laid (that’s an outcome or result), it’s about living with a confident attitude, having fun, living on your own terms, leading. You want that promotion or new job – well, two things (1) be confident (2) have experience. Game is about inner strength – leaning about the Red Pill has opened my eyes up to more than just “women” – we live in a feminized society – so if you need game to get laid by woman, then you need game to live a successful life – there is absolutely no difference. At least until society swings back to a more masculine one.

  • New Yorker

    @Tin Man

    100% spot on. Alpha/Beta are mindsets and human beings as animals respond to mental strength or lack thereof in predictable ways.

  • earl

    Women only care about the workings of the outside and how it relates to their inside…because if they knew how things truly worked on the inside, they’d be men.

    There is even a part of their brains they rarely access…that the male mind can go to.

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently

  • chris

    @justincross11

    “Women have had the power for years now and the red pill gives you that power back.”

    Not for long, women/feminists are planning to legislate their way out of this loss of power.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/22080/the-reality-of-false-rape-accusations-will-require-you-to-make-a-change-you-may-not-like

    TLDR article; False rape/date rape laws will force men/players to be niceguys else risking her rationalising the consensual sex as being non-consensual.

  • Augustus

    @chris: That article is funny. See this comment. So much legal protection and safeguards have only increased the number of emotionally unstable, immature and irresponsible women. As far as our society continues to treat them as children, not holding them accountable for their mistakes, and giving them more and more privileges, the more irresponsible, immature and selfish they become.

  • HanSolo

    @chris

    Check out this post I made of how campus rape tribunals act more as kangaroo courts to get young men expelled from college for consensual sex that, in one case it seems like the woman simply regretted after fact.

    http://www.justfourguys.com/war-against-men-campus-rape-tribunals-are-out-of-control/

  • Water Cannon Boy

    Speaking of return of kings, I saw this photo on there that rivals some of the ones I’ve seen on here.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/22489/dont-be-a-boring-beta-male?ModPagespeed=noscript

  • Lost&Found

    Thanks again Rollo – great site & excellent content.

    Having survived the tearing of the cognitive dissonance it’s put me through (damn tough at times) I’ve come to something of an epiphany:

    In the same way that a man will partly anthropomorphize a machine of adequate complexity like a motorbike, I think there’s a tendency to do the same with women. End result is that we feel they’re on the same team as us and we open up the defenses to let them in.
    In actuality of course women really don’t care what men want – as you’ve pointed out before: men care for women & children, women care for themselves & children.

    I guess I’ve got the evo psych backwards on this – the anthropomorphizing was never meant to apply to machines, but it’s easier to spot applied to some inanimate lump which we might urge to just start in the morning or whatever. Interestingly I only experience it with cranky machines like my 15 year old bike, not some much with modern cars because they just don’t come with drama attached.

    I can’t read comments like those from Livingtree any more without virtual subtitles saying ‘I don’t care what you men want, just listen to what I want’.

  • justincross11

    @ Chris Thanks for the link though it seems a bit extreme. I think consent is consent really but I put it on my shoulders to guage what type of woman I Am hooking up with in the first place and whether she was too drunk or high to be fucking with but that’s just me.

    With regards to what I said above. I just think that too many men are focused on a revenge type mindset and get stuck on the anger part of taking the red pill. I personally see it as a benefit to me in being able to navigate the SMP more effectively. I can understand men who are frustrated by the truths that they have come to know but at some point we have to use this knowledge to our benefit rather that letting it consume us to where we are no better than the bickering bitch feminists waging war on the opposite sex for years of oppression. I guess it all falls on individual choices. There are those who will feel the need to throw all this stuff in womens faces but really at what gain? I preffer to use it to my full advantage. I’m a plate spinning mother fucker and deep down, I really don’t give a fuck what these women feel, pleasure, pain or other wise. It really makes no difference to me. It is my version of redemption. We all chose our own way.

  • gregg

    SILY souls od men. Women do not know the truth? They are irrational while, we, men are …ehm..rational…. What the fuck????

    Women KNOW the truth! Better than men. All the problems of men with women are just the reason of PROJECTING! Men – as stupid, silly, creatures, project their romantic ideas onto women. Slave projects his own slavish mentality – to obey, sacrify, to serve.. on his woman. But woman is the MASTER..and has the mentality of the MASTER – to exploit, confuse, TO RULE!

    Look at your marriages, dating experiences, lives with women. Who is the master here. Who is showing off, begging, trying to PROVE, trying to lap – dance?? And who sits, observes, chooses and …exploits?

    Who is the ruler and who is the ruled???? Theese sily bastards occupiying the most dirty jobs, slaving their lives away in jobs they hate to support their wives and not even their own bastards, killing each other in battles…sacrifying their very lives to PROTECT their master …. theese silly bastard know the truth??? Since when the slave knows more than his MASTER? Slave is RATIONAL and Master is EMOTIONAL? You silly fucks, think for a minute!!!!!

    Almost every thought about women is just our projection! Take for example this one – men are perplexed as to why theese…ehm..little snowflakes – women, love psychopaths.

    1. Men – psychopaths
    2. Women – poooor deluded victims, innocent flowers that are exploited by male psychopaths.

    Check the basis premises of hypergamy. Cold, manipulative, amoral, parasitic. What is it????? We already have another term for this. It is PSYCHOPATHY, my friends. Cold hearted, manipulative – as woman is acquistitive mode, exploitative – as woman in marriage, lying..etc., without consciousness – as woman in divorce.

    Yes my friends, women are psychopats. Therefore they LOVE the dark triad in man – the like attracts the like. Male psychopath is simply ideal woman – psychopathy accompanied with strenght, so it can be OVERT. But women are even BIGGER psychopaths that bad boys, so tehy are not content with simple fucking each other. After some time they are trying to exploit, corner and rule even this bad boy. Of course, he denies. He is not willing to provide for her and enalble her parasitic lifestyle..he is not projecting his silly ideas onto her, he is similar to her..

    And what will happen??? All those sily, STUPID, fucks …blinded by the steam for their own gonades….aka..men, are immediately rushing to her side in order to defend this pooor innocent women that have been expoited by this baaad, baaad man.

    Women are not fighting occasional insight from men due to reason that they do not know truth. They are not willing to discuss those topics cos they KNOW the truth but they arenot willing their SLAVES to know it TOO. Slave has to remain stupid..otherwise he might..free himself..

  • gregg

    Another projection – men despise romantic literature as silly, emotional…etc.

    Given the psychopaths fascination with power over others…it is not suprising that romantic literature as the ultimate fantasy of women si ALL about power and manipulation.

    Male psychopath – aggresive – overt, wild, self sustained, not caring about society with his own power, strong, manipulative IS DEFEATED, cornered and enslaved by female psychopath – super manipulative, covert, infinitely dangerous, SUPERIOR! She has BIGGER power, she rules him. End of the story.

  • gregg

    Robert D. Hare “Without Conscience” about MALE psychopaths:

    Basically, psychopaths:

    1. exhibit callousness, impulsivity, shallow emotions, superficial charm, and no remorse for what they do.
    2. They’re narcissistic and manipulative,
    3. When intelligent, they’re generally persuasive and charismatic, and they can get people do to almost anything.
    4. They have no regard for truth, although they can evince complete sincerity, and they’re looking out only for themselves.
    5. They generally form no long-range plans and fail to take responsibility for their deeds.

    Robert D. Hare’s Without Conscience offers a comprehensive description of his work among male psychopaths in prisons.

    When those “hypergamic” traits are exhibited by male – he is psychopath and has to be treated and cornered. When they are exhibited in FEMALE – it is…ehm, hypergamy, emotions, etc. Poooor lady…she simply can not help herself and it is up to man to DANCE to her, satisfy her, endure her shit tests, etc. By this way the male exhibits …ehm…CONFIDENCE”. Note that women can not be “aggresive”, “overt”, etc…´cos they are physically weak. Instead they use their slaves – men – as soldiers to fight their wars. Their manipulation and psychopathy is therefore covert, concealed and therefore … more dangerous.

    Every psychopath to survive – needs ignorant fellows to work for him and feed him. Female psychopath to survive, needs romantic men to rule and exploit. She needs her slave with noble ideas, chivalry, self-sacrifying behaviour. SHE HAS HIM. She has millions of slaves. This poor bastards think that she CAN NOT help herslef, that she can not KNOW the truth of her exploitative behaviour, that she is EMOTIONAL as the child..so she is not responsible for her deeds!!!! This slaves think that they are above her. So we have those poor felloows thinking that they are the masters, the responsible, the rational ones, while the opposite is the true. They are the emotional ones, woman is THE RATIONAL ONE.

    Od course, she keeps him in this lie, blabbing about “love”, “connection”, “unity, offering food and traps for his romantic illusions. She gives him high class treatment in acquisitive mode. In discussions she frequently shifts focus to other themes, or detach ultimatelly..in order to not revealing her own nature to him. Very manipulative and effective traits.

    Female KNOW the rules of word, she is ultimate survivor and the great, brilliant manipulator of men. She had no “higher spirit” but she is extremely effective in this game of flesh and much more down to earth than man. She uses emotions as tools enabling her to hide her cold, calculating and manipulating nature.

    Enough to this “women are emotional” ans men are “rational” LIE from me.

  • Different T

    Off topic

    pussytivereinforcement.com

    any suggestions or ideas on the designs. Obviously the site looks like shit.

  • Augustus

    @gregg:

    Enough to this “women are emotional” ans men are “rational” LIE from me.

    Women are “rational” in relationship decision making. In this aspect they tend to be way to pragmatic and calculating, whereas men are fragile, emotional, romantic, supplicating, needy, etc. Not a general rule, of course, but that’s how it tends to be for most people. If not this feminist bullshit wouldn’t have had so much power. For other aspects of life, they are very limited: men are mostly hard wired to be the “problem solvers”, figure out solutions for practical, logical problems. They (we) have a very slow intellect. Yet it’s very powerful and penetrating. The manosphere is an example of this. A very slow and deep awakening.

    Women believe that the universe revolves around their pussy… Well, for most men it’s just true: we spend most of our lives thinking of, dreaming of, jerking off and chasing pussy and doing whatever it takes and they demand to have a chance to get into their pants. :-D They shrewdly capitalize on this. An example is the porn industry: feminists blame men for that. But the truth is that pornography wouldn’t exist if it were not for the female intrassexual competition and exhibitionism of sexual power (over men).

  • earl

    Women are not rational….they are pragmatic.

    They use their emotions to get out of being rational.

  • Softek

    BC already mentioned this quote, but it’s a very good one:

    “Don’t give to dogs what is holy, and don’t cast your pearls before swine, or they may trample them and then turn on you and tear you to pieces.”

    Here’s another good quote too:

    “A person may appear a fool and yet not be one. He may only be guarding his wisdom carefully.”

  • gregg

    @Augustus

    Henry Ford did not need to have specific knowledge, he had his employees and managers to solve the problems for him. Owners of big companies have their managers to do the job and wives of those owners have THEM. Woman does not need to have specific knowledge .. she does not need to “solve” problem, she just does her nails and some stupid macho will do everzthing for her to “worthy” of her. She SOLVES the MAN!

    @ earl

    Mhm, women are “irrational” , “emotional” but still…somehow “pragmatic”.
    :)

    It is a pity we do not discuss the MALE HAMSTER here. It is thousand times powerful than female one. Those few women that discuss here must be laughing their asses off on us..

  • earl

    “Mhm, women are “irrational” , “emotional” but still…somehow “pragmatic”.”

    You bet. This reality says that we all have to care about feelings and emotions. Which gender would use that for their advantage or to get out of trouble?

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It is a pity we do not discuss the MALE HAMSTER here. It is thousand times powerful than female one.

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/27/the-beta-hamster/

    I cover everything gregg.

  • gregg

    “This reality says that we all have to care about feelings and emotions. Which gender would use that for their advantage or to get out of trouble?”

    One gender basically survives by manipulating emotions and romantic projections of the other. So how is this emotional creature able to USE not only her emotions, but even those of her MAN to get out of trouble, to make him work and sacrify for her???

    BY her cold, DETACHED, LOGIC…man. Emotions can not rule emotions. There must be somthing other to rule them. Guys here in the manospfere and finally and slowly ..waking up, using THEIR brains and cold logic. Finally. But they are still nowhere compared to women.

    Of course, our ego will not let us to acknowledge this. We are this masters, we are the lions of jungle.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It’s called “dissociative indifference”, post to follow.

  • gregg

    Dissociative indifference is usually part of bpd. It can be found in psychopathy as well. Normal men are usually not capable of it.

    Of course, when combined with intelligence and understandig, it is LASER SURVIVAL weapon.

  • Augustus

    Guys here in the manospfere and finally and slowly ..waking up, using THEIR brains and cold logic. Finally. But they are still nowhere compared to women. Of course, our ego will not let us to acknowledge this. We are this masters, we are the lions of jungle.

    I’m trying to understand where you’re trying to get at. Who denies that women have power over men? They’ve always had, they’ve always been protected, cared for, etc. We’re born out of them… But it doesn’t mean that they’re able to solve logical-spacial-abstract problems in the same way that men do. If they had the same capabilities of men, they wouldn’t even need us, or desiring to have a mate who is a leader, ambitious, etc. It’s all about getting for free men’s resources in exchange for access to their pussies (on a very primitive, unconscious level). So, in a sense, that is power, indirect power.

    Yet men are also capable to separating sex from love, which are sort of compartimentalized in the male’s psique. That’s why a lot of male thinking sounds judgemental for them: what is natural and logical for a women (such as doing the AFBB transition) it’s not for men. They’re chasing rainbows here trying to convince men otherwise, or trying to convince betas that their SMV is the equivalent carousel riders looking to settle down. They need the feminist brainwashing machine to make it work. And that’s what the manosphere is blowing up. No wonder they get so irritated by that. :-)

    …we are the lions of jungle.

    Yes. That’s what we’re supposed to be. There is a good documentary in NatGeo called the The Lion Army. It’s very interesting to observe the roles of the mature lions on the group. They just don’t cover in this movie what lions do when they assume leadership of a group and females have puppy lions from another male…

    Indeed, I have finally understood why kings sort of always admired lions. They are noble and brave animals. :) The lionesses too.

  • gregg

    @Augustus.

    you are an intelligent man. I´ve already written more than necesaary to this topic and so just a few questions to your statements. Maybe you will undestand what I mean…

    “But it doesn’t mean that they’re able to solve logical-spacial-abstract problems in the same way that men do.”

    YOU, I, every man, with his logic, dreams, emotions, goals..is the logical-spacial-absttact problem. It is the PROBLEM of problems. Yet the WOMAN solves him and understands his emotions BETTER than himslef?? Who is here the “problem solver”. Someone who solves practic problems for resources or someone who solves “the problem solver” in oder to push him to solve practic problems for her and resources, and even extract those resources from him?

    “If they had the same capabilities of men, they wouldn’t even need us, or desiring to have a mate who is a leader, ambitious, etc”

    Why? Is cleverness demonstrated by getting stuck with most complicated, time consuming, abstract or dirty jobs/practic problems? Or by dumping them on others and profit from the result?

    “It’s all about getting for free men’s resources in exchange for access to their pussies (on a very primitive, unconscious level).”

    Resorces for pussy? You give dick, she gives pussy and you both are having great sex. Fair trade. How is that that you have to give additional prize for it to satisfy her? Why you have to give those “resources” in addition? What you are paying for?

    . . . .

  • Augustus

    Who is here the “problem solver”. Someone who solves practic problems for resources or someone who solves “the problem solver” in oder to push him to solve practic problems for her and resources, and even extract those resources from him?

    Are you a woman? :) Look, in this respect they’re superior: they navigate emotions like the fish in the sea. They detect subtle emotions almost instantaneously. They can sense what a man feels like about her, even being far away apart. They can sense if a man is suffering, emotionally, even far away and without being in touch with him. In this respect, they dominate. It doesn’t mean that they have self-determination or enough rationality for self-guidance. That’s why, for instance, they seldom make good use of their intuition and very often their intuition is just good enough to detect and reject needy, clingy man, etc. In these cases, our culture is mistaken, because very often she is not acting from a position of superiority. She’s just being a normal, clueless human being, very often even more clueless than the average whipped man who’s forced by them and be the culture to “man up”. Whatever, in the realm of emotions, they hold power. But it’s not absolute. Men are capable to penetrate and solve their schemes as well. Think of Cleopatra. They cannot use emotional trickery ad aeternum without being uncovered. On a societal level, that’s what is going on with feminism: it relied too heavily on deceptiveness and their sand castle is stumbling down (also because they were not rational enough to take into account innate biological and natural differences). The manosphere will be doing the same if they think that men will be independent from women and able to surpass them in emotional intelligence, or to become emotionally independent from them. Men are unconsciously linked to women through the special connection they have with their mothers. This will never change. Emotional nurturing is not the same category of practical problem solving. They are two different tasks and cannot be compared to one another. So if you tell me that women are much better than men at doing housework, cooking, doing laundry and emotionally nurturing babies, that’s perfectly well, because they are hardwired to be concerned about the emotional well being of the family, and take care of practical housekeeping tasks. Yet, men are usually focused on single tasks (or single thread) whereas they are multi-tasking (multi-threading). So, if men dedicate to cooking, e.g.,they usually become better chefs than women, because of their problem solving capabilities and penetrating intellect.

    How is that that you have to give additional prize for it to satisfy her?

    Women are quite inorgasmic. Men orgasm is a few minutes and they don’t. They use sex mostly to get emotional satisfaction, such as of being valued, or feeling attractive, and/or even satisfying a valuable mate to whom she feels some kind of gratitude, for his, say, “services”, like being her mate, being the “man” in the house, protecting her, etc. Women also use sex just to keep the mate or perform a housewife duty. Sometimes it may be for pleasure, but if they are inorgasmic most of the time, why would they do sex anyway? I am talking here about an honest, heterosexual woman. Women will never have the same orgasmic and/or libido of men. This is a feminist utopia (chasing rainbows as well, and riding carousels while chasing them).

  • MikePhil

    Just a short comment here. I see no rational advantage to educating, much less revealing, manosphere truths to women. Thanks to Rollo for point out how powerful the “Just Get It” concept is with women; even by aping this ethic, you maintain some Alpha edge. If you truly are or become an Alpha, you certainly don’t care about triggering the “eureka” moment in their heads. The “Just Get It “mindset is the most effective checkmate to the Feminine Mystique and a tool that is long overdue to Beta men.

    So why would you want to pull aside the curtain for women to reveal the mechanics? It destroys their illusions they have about you and they certainly won’t thank you for your honesty; quite the opposite. It’s like revealing the database access codes to your main competitor; you’d do it out of some misguided notion that sharing is caring, but the results would speak for themselves.

    Spend your time educating your fellow man, and raise him up. Every convert is an ally here. And buy them Rollo’s book when their interests gets triggered.

  • New Yorker

    I don’t think that it matters whether you reveal the Red Pill truth to women. The Alpha is oblivious to the thoughts of others and that confidence is apparent. Hence, you could tell the woman anything as long as it is done with proper mastery. It is the how, not the what that matters.

  • infowarrior1

    @Augustus

    “The manosphere will be doing the same if they think that men will be independent from women and able to surpass them in emotional intelligence, or to become emotionally independent from them. Men are unconsciously linked to women through the special connection they have with their mothers. This will never change. ”

    Not if these boys were born from artificial wombs.

  • Jeremy

    @Gregg

    I think we can all agree that psychopaths are not rational. So my confusion is then:

    When those “hypergamic” traits are exhibited by male – he is psychopath and has to be treated and cornered. When they are exhibited in FEMALE – it is…ehm, hypergamy, emotions, etc. …Their manipulation and psychopathy is therefore covert, concealed and therefore … more dangerous…

    …So we have those poor felloows thinking that they are the masters, the responsible, the rational ones, while the opposite is the true. They are the emotional ones, woman is THE RATIONAL ONE.

    How is it that women have this great hidden psychopathy, but they’re the rational ones? It sounds more like you’re saying they’re incapable of rational thought, and then calling them the rational ones. I’m not excusing oneitis in men, I just think you’re seriously contradicting yourself.

  • The Burninator

    @jaketheberserker

    ” More and more women (mostly single) are becoming blatant with their own masculine feminist “man-bashing”. ”

    Because men are becoming less and less masculine. Instead of throwing things back at her in a tantrum just to feel some sense of cumuppence, instead be the manly type of man she cannot resist but drop all of her foolishness to have a chance to be with. Man bashing women are easy prey for subtle mockery and ego deflation, and getting pissy with them only justifies in their mind that they are right and all men are “pigs”. Besides, what’s the point of arguing with a being who sees logic and reason as superficial commodities to be tossed to the rubbish bin when it suits her?

  • BC

    I don’t think that it matters whether you reveal the Red Pill truth to women. The Alpha is oblivious to the thoughts of others and that confidence is apparent.

    This. If you spit a red pill truth at a woman and she doesn’t end up fucking you later (regardless of any outrage, faux or otherwise, in the meantime), then you are/were just not alpha enough for her.

    In that sense it can be a good litmus test as to your alpha/beta pH.

  • chris

    Goddamn the little diagram I made didn’t come through properly;

    Transformation

    ->caused by a) hypergamy->results in i) justice
    ->results in ii) injustice

    OR

    ->caused by b) general drive for power -> results in i) justice
    ->results in ii) injustice

  • chris

    @Rollo and Dr. Jeremy

    I have been reading through the post

    http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/25/nursing-power/

    And one distinction that I think can be made between these discussions of power and the modern sexual/social marketplace and the manosphere that might not have been considered is this;

    Dr. Jeremy and I think maybe Rollo are asserting that either;

    a)Hypergamy causes a drive for power in women, or

    b)A drive for power exists in all people, men and women, independent of hypergamy.

    And that either a or b, or both, cause laws, society, culture, norms and values to realign themselves in a way more amenable to hypergamy or the drive for power, which can result in justice or injustice, and or both.

    Transformation of laws
    society, culture, norms and values.

    –>caused by a) hypergamy
    ——>results in i) justice, or/and
    ——>results in ii) injustice

    OR

    –>caused by b) general drive for power
    ——> results in i) justice, or/and
    ——>results in ii) injustice

    Now Dr. Jeremy puts forward the point that the solution to this problem is to ensure equal power amongst the sexes, so that basically when either party, man or woman, is unjust to the other, the party that has been wronged can use their equal level of power to check that behaviour, or in short, the Tit for Tat strategy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat

    Yet the impression I got/get from the manosphere is that hypergamy is a desire for a more powerful male, an alpha male to combine/share genes with and in the ideal situation for a woman, to pair-bond with. So while equal power might allow the Tit for Tat strategy to play out and allow men and women to check the bad behaviour of either sex, it won’t satisfy hypergamy, as by definition the man will have equal power, not more power, and it is a man with more power that a woman is attracted to. Put simply, power for men is like beauty for women.

    (Indeed the understanding I’ve always had of shit tests is she’s testing to see if you’re powerful/confident just like a guy looking at a woman is testing to see if she’s beautiful.)

    Thus equal power, while it won’t satisfy a) hypergamy, it will eliminate both injustice limbs in a) hypergamy and b) general drive for power. But, equal power won’t satisfy a) hypergamy because it is through being more powerful than her, not equal in power to her, that you quench hypergamy’s desires.

    So if hypergamy is the cause, in practice you can eliminate the injustice that occurs from it through equal power, but you will never satisfy it, as that can only be remedied by more power for men. So you get the situation where injustice doesn’t occur, but women aren’t attracted to their mates/ aren’t happy/aren’t happily mated.

    However, if some general drive for power is the cause of this transformation, then it can never be satisfied, and the practical solution of equal power as to being better or worse, doesn’t even need to be considered. It wins by default.

    Addendum: There’s also the possibility that hypergamy isn’t an attraction to general power, but is instead an attraction to masculine/male power. Thus equal power and satisfying hypergamy could be achieved if all masculine/male power is reserved in men and all feminine/female power is reserved in women.

    (Rambling about possible association between concepts below)

    Indeed such an understanding ties in with the belief amongst the manosphere that feminism emerged and is spearheaded by women who were deficient in feminine/female power (i.e. slutty, ugly, old, or not sexually available to men (read: lesbians)) as a way to make up for that deficiency in feminine/female power by grasping at masculine/male power. And I suppose this belief about feminists and any assertion about masculine/male power and feminine/female power ties in with a belief in natural gender roles, which is something that feminists also oppose. And I suppose this attempt to invert gender roles or give masculine/ male power to feminists or women atleast partially maps onto the belief that feminists want to change the mating system from a long-term mating system to a short-term mating system, as in short-term mating systems the women provision for themselves and providing could be considered an aspect of masculine/male power, but not the whole of male power which is why I used the qualifier of “partially maps onto.” But then again one can only provision if one has political control over resources and political control/power I think is the core of masculine/male power, for politics is the use of force or violence, which is what I believe males in our species have evolved to be good at,

    (Puts, D. A. (2010). Beauty and the beast: Mechanisms of sexual selection in humans. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(3), 157-175. link=http://www.putslab.psu.edu/pdfs/puts_10_beautybeast.pdf),

    whereas females in our species have evolved to be good at using their feminine power to persuade or inspire males to give their masculine power over to women for their and their children’s benefit, with feminine power being her beauty, her youth, her innocence and sweetness, her sexual availability, etc.

    End Rambling.

    (Sorry for any double posting, it took a while to get the diagram to come through properly.)

  • infowarrior1

    I will promote a website:

    gynocentrism.com

    Documents the feminine imperative throughout history.

  • Kate

    Ha! I just ran into that website recently. It has a post by Rollo on chivalry and Mark’s Hail to the V there. Wasn’t sure what to make of it.

  • James X

    I have shown my girlfriend this website, she doesn’t like it, obviously. She is idealistic enough to think that we shouldn’t be gaming each other, but then she’ll pull some shit test out of nowhere. Even when I TELL her I’m gaming her, it doesn’t matter, she still reacts to it the same way as if she doesn’t know. It’s like a woman saying “I’m wearing this push-up bra to turn you on”, it doesn’t make the push-up bra any less appealing, to me anyway.

    I was wondering whether it makes more sense to keep it secret or not, but in my experience it doesn’t seem to matter as far as her attraction goes – it still has the desired effect. Instead, it does create a lot more arguments, as Rollo rightly points out women don’t like to intellectually accept these ideas. So yes, I partly regret pulling back the curtain, but that doesn’t mean I’m no longer the Wizard of Oz.

  • New Yorker

    @James

    It is good that you pulled it back. This is just another test of whether you are the dominant partner in the relationship. That is the only way that it can work.

  • Dr. Jeremy

    @ Chris

    You answered your own question after “Addendum” :)

  • Mark

    Rollo,

    I can’t thank you enough for doing what you do here. My eyes are open and although I wish I found this info sooner, I’m glad it’s spreading and I tell every guy I know about it. It’s amazing how you begin to notice all the little things just watching TV, hearing music, etc… Men are portrayed as betas at best by the media, misogynist creeps at worst. A great current example is a show called “Orange is the new Black”. Watch and weep as the bf played by Jason Biggs dutifully goes along with his new fiancee as she begins a jail sentence of 15 months with no conjugal visits allowed. It’s pathetic to watch even in the flashbacks showing what a simpering wuss he’s always been with women. ONEitis in its purest form.

  • livingtree2013

    Happy new year gents (and lady Kate!)

    OK I’m going to come out and admit it – this post of Rollo’s is entirely correct.

    Women know the game, most have learned how to play it by the age of 21 (usually the very hard way, which is part of the reason you get so much bitterness from them when you try to discuss it with them). The ones who don’t play it well, or who still get angry at 40 about how shitty men are, are the ones that never figured out that there was a game going on. I could write an encyclopedia’s worth of articles just on this topic alone.

    But anyway, talking about game is like talking about fight club – just don’t. Why not? Because the game, regardless of which team you’re playing on, sucks. Even women who are great at it, HATE IT. We hate that we have to play it to get your attention. We hate that you think you have to play it to get ours. We’ve just learned that this is how it is. Whether its the alpha game or the beta game (yes, beta is a game too, don’t kid yourselves), whenever we meet a man who doesn’t play it, women are all confused because he’s not behaving in either of the two predictable male ways… and many women become convinced that the dude has to be gay or sociopathic or something. I’m sure you guys feel the same way about women on whatever rare occasion there is when you meet one that doesn’t fit into either of the two socially established behavior molds for women.

    Its total bullshit, and simultaneously misogynistic and misandric. It is the bane of our entire existence as a species, and contrary to every concept of social progress and evolution that we have been struggling towards for many millennium. But for some reason, that’s just “what we do” as a species. We can’t seem to stop, because you can’t change the world. And as the saying goes, if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em. We learn by success, punishment and reward how to behave in the world.

    If you hate it too (*and frankly, you should hate it, if you knew what was good for you), by all means talk freely about it with women who you are friends with, if your mission is intellectual awareness. But if your motive is to get laid, by discussing your awareness you will fail miserably, because human sexuality is diametrically contrary to intellectual awareness. Logic and reasoning is NOT SEXY.

    Unless by talking about it you can effectively demonstrate that you don’t need game. Which very remarkably few men (like I can count on one hand the number I’ve met in my life) can do well. Too few to even bother discussing, even though it would be a genuinely desirable state to exist in.

  • livingtree2013

    Furthermore, if you are perturbed about being called out as a player, why exactly are you trying to learn game strategy? You are learning game to BECOME a better player, I presume, so you should be glad when a woman points it out to you (annoyedly or not). They are your coaches, believe it or not, because if they are pointing it out to you, that means you either need to improve your skills because you’re too obvious, or you are too sensitive to criticism. Either way, the information is of great use to you. Don’t get offended by it.

    Bear this in mind, men: there are many women who don’t fall for game. MANY. If that bothers you, then you should reevaluate your strategy. These women are telling you something important about themselves – either they are really smart, really game-savvy, or really much better quality than the average sucker. Try finding one of those women, figure out which one she is, and keep her around for whatever purpose it serves in your life. She could just be the best weapon you have in your arsenal.

  • Rol

    ^^^Advice? You’ve got to be kidding me, lol.

  • Joker79

    Thanks Rollo for the honour to be mentioned on you blog. The inspiration of my post comes from the observation of the behaviour of the girlfriends/wives of several friends of mine. Such friends generally act completely clueless about the drivers of feminine behaviour and seem always fearful to be dropped like a rock should they not behave as required. They are 100% beta, I know. Everytime I have the privilege to assist to fights or discussions, I can easily spot the game the woman is playing and sometimes I’m tempted to challenge her. This usually raises embarrassment in the guy, surprised about my perspective but doubtful that this applies to his woman (“nah, my gf is different”), and anger in the girl, who’s been caught in the manipulation attempt (“You’re right, but don’t tell my boyfriend!” or “oh come on, you need to man up”). I don’t talk about fight club with chicks I date, but sometimes I enjoy the drama and indignation that such uncomfortable truths bring to the table especially with chick I’m not keen to date, gf and wives of my friends included. I think of it more like a social experiment.

  • Tam the Bam

    All women are open to being gamed, if the man knows what he’s doing and is up for it. In exactly the same way. By any man.
    Unless they’re on bang up in Holloway, or a convent or the like.

    ” .. women are all confused because he’s not behaving in either of the two predictable male ways…” because the third, fourth options are effectively invisible to hypergamy.

    “.. and many women become convinced that the dude has to be gay or sociopathic or something.”
    I don’t believe we’ve met? My name is Bam, Thomas Bam. Gin and Dubonnet, thanks.

    “I’m sure you guys feel the same way about women on whatever rare occasion there is when you meet one that doesn’t fit into either of the two socially established behavior molds for women.” yore doin it agin. There’s only one.
    Hark at her! “Really smart” women lol. “Much better quality” my harris. Than whom? They’re simply different, not graded, like sodding eggs or something. And some, a few, are differently horrible, I’ll admit, but I can usually outmanoeuvre them, and escape.

  • livingtree2013

    Yeah, Rol, advice. I get this game thing all too well.

    I want nothing more than for all of us, women and men both, to stop pretending its not happening, to stop pretending its not happening to US, and most of all to stop acting like victims. We can only make conscious and free choices about how to live if we first admit we have a problem.

    If any of you guys think that Beta isn’t a game strategy, well, I feel kinda bad for you, because you’re missing half the problem. The only problem I have with this Red Pill business is that its far too limited in its scope. I hope in time you work to correct that.

  • Joker79

    @LT

    maybe I’m confused but what would the purpose of Beta game strategy be?

  • livingtree2013

    Allo Tam!
    While it is true, MOST women are open to being gamed (if done smoothly they might even enjoy it!), even the ones that struggle against it.

    But the ones that aren’t interested might as well be invisible. And frankly, they’re better off that way. Believe me when I say you have nothing to “outmaneuver” or “escape” from where they are concerned because they are busy trying to escape from you. Perhaps it makes life easier for you to think there are many sorts of men, some better and some worse, but only one type of woman. There is no benefit to the world for me to convince you otherwise, such women are generally better off with you thinking that they don’t exist.

  • livingtree2013

    Joker, the aim of beta game is exactly the same as it is for alpha men – that being, to capture women.

    To be metaphorical, beta men are fishing with a different lure than the alpha men, perhaps using a different style, perhaps with the intention of capturing a different species of fish.

    Where the problem lies is that women are not always the fish in the equation anymore.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    If any of you guys think that Beta isn’t a game strategy, well, I feel kinda bad for you, because you’re missing half the problem. The only problem I have with this Red Pill business is that its far too limited in its scope. I hope in time you work to correct that.

    Yaaaawwwn,….

    http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/02/beta-game/

    You were saying?

  • Water Cannon Boy

    Capture women sounds so adversarial.

  • Simo

    @ LT

    *Spin**Spin**Spin* Squeak!!

  • Joker79

    @LT

    I’ll be extreme in my evaluation but I think that Beta game, as specified by Rollo, is nothing more than a pathetic submission to women power in order for those beta to get the basic sexual needs fulfilled and therefore stop the hunt for the women themselves. I don’t see a strong long term strategy that brings absolute happiness and dominance for the man, but only a way women have to ensure themselves with a provider through the informed acceptance of the flaws of the Beta male. After all, Alpha fvcks, beta bucks.

  • Tam the Bam

    “Where the problem lies is that women are not always the fish in the equation anymore.”

    Oh yes they are unless they’re floaters. They just don’t know it.
    Trouble is they’ve convinced themselves that looking and acting like Angler Fish is the wave of The Future. Especially the look.

    “One day, if I can only doss about in the benthonic slime long enough, a delicious Unicorn Fish will be so attracted to my special shiny snowflake-lure, he’ll swim rite inta my teeth! Muahahahahaaaa!”
    The End.

    OK confessio, I’m at a loose end what with the scheisswetter and all, and I know I oughtn’t ta bother ..
    Hope it ain’t cabin fever setting in. Better go saw sumthin up. Fill the lamps just in case while it’s still daylight.

  • livingtree2013

    Sure Joker, I’m sure it does seem supplicating to you guys, and yes I’m sure in extreme cases it does go that way – probably many of you have been those guys who put their needs aside for dominant women – but my point here is that it is a strategy. As Rollo’s linked article amply illustrates, it is an alternate strategy, and a very successful one, which was designed (by men) to gain access to the many women who were either not interested in, or cast off by, the “players” and therefore easier pickings for the less skillful players.

    As a strategy, it works brilliantly too, for those that do it well. The only trouble is, there are so many who don’t, who wind up becoming doormats. Works the same way for women, incidentally. Its a difficult balance.

    You guys rail on quite often here about taking the power back from women, and that’s because you have recognized that far too many “beta” men are being played by the superior players in this stupid awful game, and that, of course, bothers your egos, because as in all cases where there is a game being played, the captor ends up resenting their prey. It feels exactly the same way for us when we get played by men who deceive us into doing what they want by pretending to be something they aren’t, and then loathing us for being so easy to fool. The truth is, no-one wants to be the one that gets captured.

    I used the word “capture”, WaterCannon, because this game we play with each other is extremely adversarial at its core. There is no fuzzy positivity or loving feelings of charity in it. It is about power, plain and simple. I do hope you understand that.

  • livingtree2013

    Tam, that Oatmeal link is hysterical! Love it.

    Hey you guys, can someone please explain how I can reply to a specific comment post, and get the text from the original comment to appear in my reply? I’ve seen it done, someone mentioned in a previous article about some shift-F9 thing, but I obviously didn’t do it correctly because it hasn’t worked out for me yet.

  • All Women are Red Pill Women | RedPillPushers

    […] longs to be Gamed by men that “just get it” and will quickly reject and lose interest in any that […]

  • Joker79

    @LT

    “As Rollo’s linked article amply illustrates, it is an alternate strategy, and a very successful one”

    how do you define the term “successful strategy”? just to get access to women that will drop you like a rock (keeping you as the provider of course)if they came across an alpha?

  • livingtree2013

    Joker, the beta strategy is very successful. There are considerably more betas with women than there are alphas, or even alpha-wannabes, so if securing a woman is the goal (which it clearly is), then you’ve succeeded at your goal. What you do with it after the capture is the interesting part.

    My point is only that perhaps you want to set the bar a little higher. Where the strategy fails is the selection criteria for betas (for most men, to be honest, alphas included) is really weak and undiscerning – and after the capture, you think the game ends there. Getting a woman, any woman, seems to be where the strategy ends. The better your game – as in, the more social currency you have – the more attractive a woman you can capture. Cast, capture, repeat… yawn… bored…

    Unfortunately, most women are falling into this cast-and-capture drama too now. They want to be the captors rather than always the ever-elusive prey of our supposed golden age, when women were “worth it”, and have, in the process of finding supposed equality have become equally bad at discernment.

    Anyway, just to be provocative… here’s a point to chew on. http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/04/07/female-infidelity-its-different/

  • deti

    LT:

    The beta strategy is successful only for women, because women respond to it only after sating themselves with alphas and the occasional alpha burns. For men, beta game succeeds only to get a suboptimal woman, and rope her in with cash and provider goodies.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    LT likes the idea of Beta Game being a successful mating strategy for men because it complements her ego-investments in feminine superiority. If you actually read the essay you’ll note that Beta Game is little more than a coping strategy for the vast majority of men (Beta men) to ‘poach’ women who would otherwise opt for more Alpha-dominant men.

    So she’s correct in the assumption that since more men are Beta than Alpha, the overwhelming deductive Game practiced by (Beta) men has been one of making themselves what they believe will make them more acceptable to the feminine imperative. Thus they supplicate to women and internalize an identity based on what women tell them will make them acceptable for their intimacy. LT likes this model because it places men into a self-imposed, self-believed subservience to the feminine imperative and thus (disingenuously) reinforces women’s position as the primary sexual selector.

    The problem with this model is that feminine hypergamy always thwarts the man invested in Beta Game because women cannot sustain attraction (and arousal) with men who need to be told how to be the men they think they want. They want men who Just Get It and any man who needs to have masculinity explained for him (particularly by a woman) is not the guy for her.

    To LT, an Alpha man is a caricature of offensive hyper-masculinity, bordering on violent domineering, but the Man who will get her off will never be the guy using Beta Game, because there will always be an underlying disrespect of the man who literally molds his personality around what women tell him he should to better please them.

  • Anonymous Reader

    LyingTree confuses a “point” with “pointless snark”, but that’s par for the feminist(e) course.

    Careful readers will see that LyingTree is pushing AFBB, once again.
    The Female Imperative is regularly revealed in LT’s postings.

    My fave so far is the claim that children must be supported by one or more men, because. Just because. Rather like Marx’s labor battallions will be formed…

    Scratch a feminist, and you will find a totalitarian every single time.

  • livingtree2013

    Rollo, after everything I’ve said on this forum, including my most recent post, what on earth would make you think I LIKE beta strategy? Or any game strategy at all???? Egads, its revolting. I thought I’d made myself clear on that point by now, at the very least.

  • livingtree2013

    However, the point I have made here is that beta is the strategy for getting you in the game. After that, you gave the ball away. Supplication was the strategy you thought you should use to get it back. How did that work out for ya?

    In order for your strategy to work long-term, you need to employ your strategy on people who are LESS GAME-SAVVY than you, so you don’t give the ball to someone who will never give it back to you willingly. Why your strategy failed you is because you didn’t even realize that you were being gamed. Now you know.

    Dammit, I hate having to resort to sports metaphors.

  • livingtree2013

    And incidentally Rollo…

    “To LT, an Alpha man is a caricature of offensive hyper-masculinity, bordering on violent domineering, but the Man who will get her off will never be the guy using Beta Game, because there will always be an underlying disrespect of the man who literally molds his personality around what women tell him he should to better please them”

    …could not be further from representing me. Alpha can go bad. Beta can go bad. Both can be good too, but so very rarely are. Neither strategy impresses me, because they are both far too obvious to me to be truly “successful”, whatever that means, because they are both based on a lack of authenticity. Any man (or woman) who molds their personality based on what other people/society tell them they should be does not get my respect. Unfortunately, that group includes about 90% of the species. Maybe more.

    But please, lets not talk about me…

  • Anonymous Reader

    LT

    But please, lets not talk about me…

    I nominate this for irony of the day.

  • Anonymous Reader

    LyingTree2013
    Any man (or woman) who molds their personality based on what other people/society tell them they should be does not get my respect.

    Yet you, and all other feminists, demand that men should mold themselves based on what feminists want. So the men who obey feminism are the men who do not get your respect.

    Thus LT confirms an elementary tenet of Game…excellent.

  • Joker79

    Isn’t it fantastic to see how women start qualifying for attention when caught and think that everything is about them? somewhere Rollo wrote “the closer you get to truth the louder women screech”

  • gregg

    Women are nor scared, or preferring beta, or alpha game. Both have a value for them. Alpha provides excitement and fun, or genes, beta resources. Men qualifying to women..amusing for our chicks.

    Women will be scared when one thing happens – MEN STOP CARING. Or better..the attractive men and capable providers STOP CARING. This one would scare shit out of women. As every parasite, they can not live without their host.

    But we can observe some funny changes in the behaviour of women. Increased sexual competition. Very, very harsh one, indeed. They are sexually tempted and provoked by all this super aggressive and attractive vampires, handsome actors, multi/millionares, etc.

    So our masters are beginning to compete between themselves and becoming slaves of those attractive fellows, in the process. Tattoos, diets to almost death, obsession about looks, giving away sex almost immediately…very hopeless traits, indeed. As the majority of men-slaves are throwing themselves at women as their masters, these very women are desperately throwing themsleves on a tiny minority of exceptionaly attractive men, in order to win them.

    Due to postponed marriages, many of these fellas seem to be accessible. They are not taken, so it seems that they can become this mysterious “catch” for our lill lady. When this attractive fellow happens not to have the usual romantic soul of a man, but psychopatic traits instead (similar to female hypergamy) he is able to capitalize this, lure and bed 100, 200 or more cute/attractive women. Very similar to women extracting support, time and resources from men without actually willing to give access to them – fairly common female trait.

    Interesting observation…

    Majority of chicks rule majority of men, but are still ruled (in some period of their life) by the very, very small minority of men – attractive psychopaths. Note, that attractive man with romantic soul is not able to rule women. He is swiftly caught, enslaved and married..

  • livingtree2013

    Sigh… I know I shouldn’t bother with you, AR, I’m trying to stay optimistic. One day, if you keep right on swinging that dead cat, you’re bound to hit something with it eventually. You might even hit a totalitarian feminist one day, if you swing a little wider. You missed the mark today though.

  • Anonymous Reader

    LT, I understand. It’s difficult, to be sure, trying to get men back into the corral where our utility to women can be fully exploited,as Goddess surely intended. And no doubt quite tiring when men keep seeing through your turgid verbiage to the Female Imperative you thought was hidden away.

    I feel your pain…

    And so does one of your feminist sisters.

    http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/piv-is-always-rape-ok/

  • Rol

    Hey [b]Rollo[/b] (or anyone else who has an idea),

    Off-topic question.

    Why are more women having children outside of marriage? Government benefits? Divorce is a PITA?

    Given that they benefit the majority of the time I figured it was a no brainer, especially for women out of their prime.

    One of my friends wanted to get married to a woman he’s been with now for like 8-10 years (she’s 33 and they have a 5 y/o boy). They aren’t married because she doesn’t want to be. He makes great money (120K+) and it baffles me. She’s a typical government worker still taking college classes (she’s in HR).

    I have another close friend who’s girlfriend of a couple years just got pregnant, no word about marriage (she was a single mother prior to them getting together).

    What’s the angle?

  • livingtree2013

    Corral??! WTF are you talking about? I don’t want you in any corral, I don’t want you being used any more than I want women to be used, or any more than I want either of us to learn to be better users. I want us all to be able to stand on our own two feel, take responsibility, have agency for our actions, even our bad ones. But, since using seems to be all we know how to do to each other these days, is there any option besides play along, or leave?

    I left. You make your own choices.

    So, am I to understand that because some woman somewhere said that she thinks sex is always rape, that means to you that all feminists see it this way? I feel sorry for you if that’s how you reason.

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