The Dangers of the Red Pill

redpill_danger

I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:

It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.

But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.

The side effects are really nasty.

Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.

The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.

Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.

When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.

It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.

But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…

It’s easier.

Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pillbut the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.

I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.

Wutang from Roosh’s forum:

I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?

While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.

That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.

I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.

Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.

In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.

The Rule

NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to?  I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.

I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.

I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.

If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.

Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.

Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.

When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.

In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.

As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.

From the Roosh forum again:

The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.

“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”

Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.

I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.

There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.

Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.

So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Jetxo
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Pay Attention !! I love the topic: “Generally speaking, we have two kinds of consciousness. One I will call the ‘spotlight,’ and the other the ‘floodlight.’ The spotlight is what we call conscious attention, and we are trained from childhood that it is the most valuable form of perception. When the teacher in class says ‘Pay attention!’ everybody stares, and looks right at the teacher. That is spotlight consciousness; fixing your mind on one thing at a time. You concentrate, and even though you may not be able to have a very long attention span, nevertheless you use your spotlight:… Read more »

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@Sun Wukong May 13th, 2015 at 10:41 am Don’t dismiss Meyers Briggs as not being a valuable game tool. Even me in married man game. My wife is an ENFP. I am INTJ. http://www.returnofkings.com/7053/how-myers-briggs-can-elevate-your-game “ENFP – Prom queens. ENFPs are used to getting attention, and their egos are validated almost solely by the adoration of others. To capture her interest you need to push-pull as much as possible. Give her slight interest and then withdraw mercilessly. The script-flipping of making her search for your approval will bond her to you even more than with the average girl. If you’re an… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@sjfrellc

Hahaha, I don’t need a trendy pop psych way of saying “attention whore”.

newlyaloof
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Going through the red pill transformation, as I have, transforms a man from an unhappy sheep to an enlightened wolf – but you can feel like a lone wolf at times because you may no longer relate to friends, coworkers, and even family members. But it’s a fantastic solitude of truth. Took me a few years to see like Neo, but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I’ve been, and will continue, teaching my son the red pill ways. As for converting others, I actually ask them “The Neo Test.” I ask them if they were Neo, would they have… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Don’t get me wrong. I’m extremely good at intuiting peoples’ personalities and such in short order. I have a few friends that even before TRP would bring chicks by me to get a read on how much crazy they were hiding. I’ve almost never been wrong.

Point being yeah I know it’s important to get a read on people and can do so rapidly, but I don’t need some hokey test to do it for me.

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@ Sun Wukong RE:MBTI My brain isn’t wired to discern complex spatial relationships so I’ll likely never grasp celestial mechanics. I can’t “see” those input variables functioning in real time (with the required brain processing power evolved and powerful enough) to even begin to suss out those equations as I can with human emotion. We still launch shit into space even though I don’t understand it and can’t harness that power personally. Just because you, some dumb bar whore, or the lady in HR can’t understand how something works doesn’t mean it doesn’t. I think it’s better to calibrate for… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Tilikum

Just because it doesn’t trigger your bullshit detector doesn’t mean it isn’t bullshit.

sjfrellc
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Fair enough Sun. But some of us need all the tools we can muster efficiently for game. I’ve been punching well above my weight class (figuratively) and looks (literally) for 27 years. It’s working for me.

Atticus
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sjfrellc, I’ve read Rollo’s also and I’m not expert in the field. If Jung made observations leading to his theories of Anima and Animus, perhaps they were based upon higher testosterone levels in women making some more masculine and lower levels making some men more effeminate. That said, it’s a pretty giant leap to say that we’re all the same and the difference is in the degrees. Maybe Jung’s observation was biological, and the FI co-opted it to be cultural. It just seems difficult for me to read Jung’s thoughts on women in American marriages and inter-gender relations in the… Read more »

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Sun Wukong May 13th, 2015 at 11:13 am I cultivate my sense of smell. We all know about the “smell of fear”. Every body is signaling the internal state of the body with the chemicals they give off. What will happen if you are quiet enough is that their internal state will reflect on yours. The other day the fm was watching a TV program about a woman determined to do something. She adopted that state of determination and I “smelled” it. I asked her how come she didn’t apply that determination that I “felt” to some of her problems.… Read more »

thedeti
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@ Morpheus: “When I read female commenters and bloggers launch into discussions about character, empathy, morality, immorality, ethics my first instinct is to tell them to fuck off. Not because I think it is a great thing to be immoral and purely selfish, but because I know they are full of shit, the appeal to these things are a debating, rhetorical, shaming tactic. “Do you think for one second that they empathize one bit with those suicidal guys? Fuck no. Their first instinct would be to blame them in some way. Do you think they care one bit that you… Read more »

Lone Survivor
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Good article, Rollo. This is why people must walk away from TRP Reddit and from Red Pill forums over time. This is an echo box that amplifies ideas and feelings. So a problem that has the size of a coin ends up being perceived as it has the size of a football stadium (and I am not talking about gold digging whores, or female PUAs or psycho women; but mundane things like a girl you were dating getting back to her boyfriend, for instance). Antibiotics have what is called “therapeutic margin”, which is calculated as: toxic dose – therapeutical dose… Read more »

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Lone Survivor
May 13th, 2015 at 11:56 am

That has not been my experience. You might as well say – the more you study electronics the more fearful you become of electrons. Every wall socket will make you afraid.

Non-sense. I’m properly careful around wall sockets. Because that is high enough voltage to kill you if you make a wrong move. But fearful? What would be the point? I’d have to stop using electricity.

feeriker
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You don’t consider that because you’re a mewling quim who’s so solipsistically ego-invested in her feminine-defined reality that the concept of men having any individuated existence is never even an afterthought to you.

You’re have no consideration or inkling of the male experience is only matched by your lack of any critical curiosity about it.

Wow, Rollo … you probably just made Gabby come so hard she probably blacked out from oxygen-deprived orgasmic ecstasy. Now we’ll NEVER be rid of her (*SIGH*).

Healing One
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Red pill vs “blue pill” people I find it comical how people can be split into TWO distinct camps Life isnt that simple no way Take for example the men in my office Guy No 1. The big boss. He runs the show like a G Guy No 2. The boss son. Spoiled and lazy. Reaps the benefits of dads work. Guy No 3. 55 year old bachelor. Never got married. Never wanted kids. Has his GF of years. The end Guy No 4. Very shy and timid personality. Works hard. Doesnt date. Doesnt really care for it. Guy No… Read more »

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Rollo Tomassi
May 13th, 2015 at 12:13 pm

Aleister Crowley studied the same stuff and had a better grasp of reality.

http://classicalvalues.com/2009/12/magick/

Liz
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I always thought that Cassandra was cursed not so much by knowing “the truth”, but by piss-poor delivery.

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@lh “The problem seems to be men who know don’t get there and learning the Red Pill within a marriage is improbable. So probably no one has that experience to talk about?” Do blog post count @Jetxo “Any men that is interested in this theme and spend time and energy on this matters is clearly seeker of answers, as I like to call them, yes a The Doors reference here hehe” Nice “I asking cause at least from Europe where I always lived, I see the right wing politicians (in every country) just as servants of the corporations in every… Read more »

Nataliya Kochergova
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Can you really “ruin the beautiful illusion” with Red Pill? A man whose marriage is great is not gonna go “It’s over! It was all a lie” just because of something he read on the internet, or was told by a guy.

kfg
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@Liz:

It would have helped if she brought good news every once in a while.

Seraph
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“There are all kinds of names for it. Yoga. Meditation. etc. It all comes down to paying attention. To stop the sleep walking. Don’t be a zombie. etc. etc. etc. PAY ATTENTION” “Awakening is the heart of the red pill after all” Ok, thank you. This resonates with me because I DID feel like I woke up a few years ago, and my recurring dread is of falling back to sleep. Sleepwalking, zombie, a robot operating on alien programming… Yeah. I get that. I FEEL LIKE THAT. I have tried to explain it to people, even a therapist, and they… Read more »

Nataliya Kochergova
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Btw, I noticed red pill sites can toxify your mood at first, but then you get tolerant, or something. At least it was so with me. Confront unpleasant stuff and it can get better. Sometimes.

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@thedeti Women don’t care about those men, don’t want to hear about those men, and don’t want to be burdened with the knowledge of those men’s difficulties. Hence the whole “Just because you do everything you were told would get you sex with a woman doesn’t mean you’re entitled to sex! Where do you get off with that attitude?” Complete refusal to see it from the man’s perspective for even a brief moment to generate the tiniest bit of empathy. @Rollo He was a whack job, but many Alphas are. You know, that does puzzle me when I’ve run in… Read more »

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“Men are scary, Tomassi. They are scary when they stab you 32 times. They are scary when they pour boiling water on you or leave you in a shallow grave somewhere. They are scary when they shoot their wives and babies in the head. Do you not know these things?? You try to wrap the truth in bogus theories about female imperatives and speak nonsense to me about mewling quim, but you haven’t even got the balls to see the world as it really is. Wake the hell up. Male solipsism is a real thing in the world, too. I… Read more »

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“Immediately would become clear that it wasn’t an act. What’s the dynamic that accounts for that being so common? I know the woo wasn’t what did the work for them, but it seemed to be a common side effect of that “natural Alpha” personality.” Two things immediately popped into my head. One was Pook’s emphasis on FUN in all interactions with women. He was very clear that women were not going to be engaged and aroused by the intellectual, but by feeling and mood. That does not mean women are STUPID. It just means they respond sexually to certain things,… Read more »

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@SFC Ton I don’t recall having a specific Red Pill talk with my son. It was more like a constant low key theme in living Yeah, I’ve figured that if I ever have kids, raising a son “Red Pill” like so many concerned guys ask when they’re newly unplugged is simply a case of “Never explicate. Demonstrate.” While the manosphere has only occurred due to the rapid exchange of information via the internet, it’s somewhat tragic that it can’t actually go by that tenet internally since you don’t live around the guys you’re learning from usually. Our usual means of… Read more »

Badpainter
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@ Seraph

When you say FUN you mean from a woman’s perspective. Same as when the advice is to have interesting hobbies, it really means have hobbies interesting to women. What we as men find to be fun or interesting is of no interest to women.

Again, wear the costume and do the dance. The man must act, perform, and entertain. If he enjoys that or not is immaterial. It’s the process, a job, a chore and you get paid (hopefully) in pussy.

Not Born This Morning
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“When I read female commenters and bloggers launch into discussions about character, empathy, morality, immorality, ethics my first instinct is to tell them to fuck off. Not because I think it is a great thing to be immoral and purely selfish, but because I know they are full of shit, the appeal to these things are a debating, rhetorical, shaming tactic” There is no such thing as morality. Morality is chicanery. All “gods” are paper tigers contrived to facilitate the games of blame & shame and hopes & fears. “Morality” simply does not exist in reality. It is only a… Read more »

Atticus
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This is the pablum on the team website I referred to above. I copied it, parsed it (my comments in brackets) and emailed. In hind sight, I probably should have reworded assclown, homo and pussy. The thing that offended me most was this guy usurping the crying kids father. Confessions of a Crybaby I am a crybaby. Sometimes, I cry when I’m inspired or sad. Sometimes, I cry from disappointment or joy. I cried when my high school football team won the state championship. I even cried during an episode of Hannah Montana that I watched with my then 5-year-old… Read more »

Seraph
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“When you say FUN you mean from a woman’s perspective. Same as when the advice is to have interesting hobbies, it really means have hobbies interesting to women. What we as men find to be fun or interesting is of no interest to women. Again, wear the costume and do the dance. The man must act, perform, and entertain. If he enjoys that or not is immaterial. It’s the process, a job, a chore and you get paid (hopefully) in pussy.” MMMmm, yes and no. Pook would argue you can get some mileage out of the aping of her interests,… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@Sun- “Almost all the dudes I’ve ever known that were naturals with women bought in to all kinds of crazy woo. Homeopathy, chakras, crystals, all that new agey bullshit. Like if you got them alone and told them” You’ll never hear the truth overtly (except here). It would blow the cover. Women are naturally drawn to frivolous intrigue especially if it implies the supernatural. They are fascinated with any form of trickery, deceit and ambivalence. This is how women exercise control. Men are fascinated with logic, cause & effect, predicting outcomes, and forecasting results. This is how men exercise control.… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“You can die from someone else’s misery”

Is there evidence for this claim?

Mad Yale Grad
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“Almost all the dudes I’ve ever known that were naturals with women bought in to all kinds of crazy woo. Homeopathy, chakras, crystals, all that new agey bullshit. Like if you got them alone and told them” This. That’s why so many PUAs and red pillers draw from new age gurus like David Deida and others. But keep in mind the women they attract are already into that stuff. The new age scene is huge in the US and many people are into it but there’s also many people who aren’t. Women who aren’t just wont be frequenting those circles.… Read more »

Seraph
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“You can die from someone else’s misery”

Is there evidence for this claim?”

You believe stress can cause health issues, no?

http://www.webmd.com/balance/stress-management/features/10-fixable-stress-related-health-problems

Unless you don’t, then it stands to reason that wallowing in misery, and/or surrounding yourself with people who wallow in misery, would be a stressor.

Now, before you request data and charts and studies that PROVE being in proximity to miserable people will kill you in a week, let’s use common sense and a little less rigidity to understand the point being made.

Not trying to pompous. Simply trying to curtail superfluous debate.

Mad Yale Grad
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Seraph, “One was Pook’s emphasis on FUN in all interactions with women. He was very clear that women were not going to be engaged and aroused by the intellectual, but by feeling and mood.” Men are not sexually aroused by the intellectual either. There’s a dance of yin and yang that women and men engage in for attraction and mating purposes. Outside of that there’s no need to feign non-intellectualism, though keep in mind American culture is generally anti-intellectual, at least in the mainstream. The problem with modern relationships and marriage is that one’s spouse is supposed to be one’s… Read more »

Blaximus
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Starve the Troll.

Mad Yale Grad
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Thanks Seraph, that would be correlation, not direct causation. “Btw, I noticed red pill sites can toxify your mood at first, but then you get tolerant, or something. At least it was so with me. Confront unpleasant stuff and it can get better. Sometimes.” There’s a lot of claims about being lied to by the Church. I get the impression Christianity teaches women are great and men are dogs? That’s not the impression I ever got when I listened to preachers but supposedly there’s a whole movement in Christianity that teaches this and the boys who grew up in that… Read more »

Seraph
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“Men are not sexually aroused by the intellectual either.”

Never said they were.

“Outside of that there’s no need to feign non-intellectualism,”

Never said one had to.

“though keep in mind American culture is generally anti-intellectual, at least in the mainstream.”

I am not trying to provoke you here, but you are firing off non-sequiters like a semi-auto. I appreciate a response, but then it seems like you are not responding to what I wrote for the most part.

Just sayin…

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

Yeah I remember reading your article, but that’s more about explaining the female side of it. I’m curious why the natural Alpha set seems to pick up on it so readily, even to the point of frequently seeming to genuinely believe in it. Is it just that they notice females react well to it or what?

Seraph
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“Thanks Seraph, that would be correlation, not direct causation.”

No, actually. I think you know it, too.

You tried to parse yourself a bit of wiggle room with the term ‘DIRECT causation’. Why not leave it at ‘causation’?

So, you think there is at least SOME causation between the two, otherwise there would be no need for such a qualifier, no?

Oh, now…See!…This was the exact type of niggling little debate I was trying to avoid.

Seraph
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“You can die from someone else’s misery”
Is there evidence for this claim?”

I can give you 150 examples of evidence lying dead on a mountainside in the Swiss Alps.

Annnnnd a 150mm shell lands in MYG’s intellectual foxhole…

BOOM!

Chump No More
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@Agent P You’re evaluation of the situation @ MMSL is spot on… very sad to watch. I was first exposed to TRP at MMSL via TAM due to my ex’s infidelity, looking for answers. I voraciously absorbed all of Athol’s material, but intuitively knew there was more and continued my search, finding Roissey, Dalrock, Ian, etc. I ultimately founded the purest source of ‘the word’ at TRM and haven’t looked any further. I posted regularly from the start of forum at MMSL, hoping (in some small part) to carry it forward. I was often chided for not sticking to the… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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The red pill explained to blue pill people. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xqoSPIeODs This film comes to mind. @Seraph “It is like I do not know myself. It is driving me (mildly) insane.” Being out in nature helps… “I need a little more help and direction here, folks.” A good book I once read was called “We” By zemvintin about D503 male and I330 female It’s what brings me here… “Men (but not woman) sexually abuse children?” That’s funny because if I remember back far enough my sister was the playing with me in the nude… Fuck… Women can be seriously hurtful to boys… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Sun, “Yeah I remember reading your article, but that’s more about explaining the female side of it. I’m curious why the natural Alpha set seems to pick up on it so readily, even to the point of frequently seeming to genuinely believe in it. Is it just that they notice females react well to it or what?” New Age is not globally prevalant so most alphas are not new age. The New Age alphas you see are people who are into that sub-culture, just as atheist alphas are atheist or Muslim alphas are muslim. That doesn’t mean “alphas are atheists”… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Chump no more ” I left many months ago and have no intention of going back. That said, I do continue to feel gratitude to Athol and many folks there… they were kind, helped me during some very bad times, and encouraged me in my early days on the path.” The same here with many groups that women took over from men. It’s sad to be aware of sometimes… @Atticus Hey that reminds me I am a huge proponent of teaching parents rugby when their kids are allowed to cry. I just spit blood and don’t cry Not sure I… Read more »

Seraph
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“Being out in nature helps…

Thanks. Sometimes you just need to have what you already feel reinforced.

I have noticed my mood shifts a lot now due to the weather, I think because I really long to be outside, in the sun. My job entails a darkish room for most of the day. Just today, walking out on the street, it occurred to me how I really would rather be doing something outside.

Appreciate it. Will check out the book.

Blaximus
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Recently, I have scaled way back trying to help anyone with examples of RP. I had an exchange a few years back that showed me that my conviction was not widely shared or appreciated, and that my beliefs could not even be considered due to how radically different they appeared to ” normal ” social convention. I have a friend. He is what I consider a true, natural alpha. He’s married with 2 children. I was summoned by mutual female friends, To ” have a talk ” with my friend because he was acting strange. The strange behavior is that… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Seraph

Oh, now…See!…This was the exact type of niggling little debate I was trying to avoid.

Hence the reason one shouldn’t engage with trolls.

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

I can give you 150 examples of evidence lying dead on a mountainside in the Swiss Alps.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/001/145/oh_snap.gif

Seraph
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“@Seraph

Oh, now…See!…This was the exact type of niggling little debate I was trying to avoid.

Hence the reason one shouldn’t engage with trolls.”

Ya got me. I will rail against them, but then can’t resist taunting them at times.

I’m WEAK!

Heh.

Blaximus
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I started life extremely Red. I had 10 uncles who schooled me hard and I listened because they were all the coolest dudes I ever saw. I didn’t see women the same way as my peers growing up. Women, in my mind, were all interchangeable. The only ones that were special to me were the one’s that were my friends growing up. They would give my ” clues ” about how females think. I got married in my early 20’s, and by my mid 30’s, I was the Bluest man alive. After the inevitable divorce, I spent a few years… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Seraph Here you go https://mises.org/sites/default/files/We_2.pdf I went out with I330 It was a blue pill disaster I prefer the hand held copy by natashal Randall but this pdf should do you good. I made more notes in that book than any other. I fell in love with that man from russia because he like Rollo Told the “truth” However Rollo didn’t get banned from a whole country for not only being real but asking the people running the country to change for the betterment of men. This is the most underrated red pill novel ever written. You want to know… Read more »

Seraph
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From the Reddit Link:

“theredpill is a hate subreddit, the only question is if you support them. They have been invading this community and making it unsafe for our community members, so we are taking preventative measures.”

You see here why it is so important for SJW’s to infiltrate all manner of organizations.

Dissent is dangerous (for them), and ANYWHERE it lives, it must be strangled under the cloak of ‘making things safe’.

You can’t even make your own space or place, because they can’t tolerate anyone disagreeing, anywhere. They will invade it, co-opt it, and then convert it.

Dr. Jeremy
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@ Sun Wukong

Humans have evolved the ability to actually come to believe their own lies, as a way of avoiding the lie detection of others and seeming to be sincere about something untrue. Some can do this better than others. Those who can “believe their own bullshit” are often more charismatic to others and better manipulators (i.e. alpha). That is why the “new age guru” often gets so much tail…and sometimes actually believes what he’s shoveling too…

Dr. Jeremy
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Rollo, Some of the comments above hint at, what I believe, is the central difficulty for men to accept the red pill…the fact that it does not provide a ready-made meaning for their life. Such ready-made meaning is why many men hold onto a blue pill ideology, rather than operating from a red pill position of praxeology and pragmatism. Specifically, while a red pill perspective logically appraises roles such as “white knight” or “beta provider” as failed mating strategies, men within those roles are more concerned with maintaining the positive symbolic identity and psychological meaning it provides them, than they… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . 1912 . . . before mainstream media.”

How do you think the Spanish-American War and WWI got pumped up?

Blaximus
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” In fact, it is not unheard of for a man to choose to die or kill, rather than give up a belief that provides a sense of meaning for himself. Therefore, in many cases, getting a man to trade an ideology that provides symbolic meaning, for a praxeology that provides tangible benefits, will be exceedingly difficult – and often met with hostility for threatening that meaning. That is why men primarily adopt a red pill perspective only after a serious crisis that has shattered the ideological meaning in their lives. At that point, they have nothing to lose.” I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Dr. J

Given that, the red pill may need to evolve further, especially if it wants to be a viable perspective for more men.

Not sure I agree with this. Isn’t there going to be a natural tendency toward eventually figuring out one’s own meaning with the restoration of masculinity and its natural tendency toward independent action and thought? Do you really need a pre-packaged “meaning of life” when you’re trying to give men the tools to seek it out on their own instead of coddling them like their previous beliefs did?

Mad Yale Grad
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“Men are not sexually aroused by the intellectual either.”

Never said they were.

“Outside of that there’s no need to feign non-intellectualism,”

Never said one had to.

_____________________

I know.

The general narrative that women are not interested in male interests or not aroused by them. And vice versa. Male interests and female interests are not meant to be sexually arousing to the opposite sex.

Female interests and hobbies, male interests and hobbies, smarts, big brain, big heart, compassion, mercy, generosity, philanthropy etc, etc, are not sexual turn ons.

Turn ons are looks,game, masculine swagger and feminine charm.

kfg
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kfg
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When the red pill “evolves” into a ready made meaning of life, it will be the blue pill.

The truth is the truth.

kfg
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kfg
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“Male interests and female interests are not meant to be sexually arousing to the opposite sex.”

Chop wood, style hair.

Sun Wukong
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@kfg

Chop wood, style hair.

And all this time I thought it was “style wood, chop hair”. I feel like such a boob.

Mad Yale Grad
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rugby, “In the LDS faith I grow up with…”

My condolences. Its best to expose kids to a wide variety of religions and philosophies, and let them do their own choosing once they get old enough, while grounding them at home in a general but daily meditation practice.

While all religions have some good core virtues that should be taught (better lived and practically demonstrated) brainwashing a young, developing mind in mythology is a type of abuse.

kfg
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kfg
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@Sun Wukong:

It is, if you invert the sexes.

Dr. Jeremy
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@ Sun Wukong In any tribe of men, all men are more or less “masculine”, but there is still a hierarchy of leadership. So, being a man does not always result in “independent action and thought”. Some men get meaning by following and being part of the group, rather than leading themselves or the group. Right now, the red pill only appeals to men who are leaders. It does not appeal to the “rank and file” men who get meaning from following and being a part of something, rather than figuring out meaning independently for themselves. Frankly, followers are often… Read more »

Badpainter
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Seraph – “Dissent is dangerous (for them), and ANYWHERE it lives, it must be strangled under the cloak of ‘making things safe’.”

Reminds me of the old quote about trading liberty for security and ending up with neither.

Also I remember one about sticks and stones being harmful, and words being benign. That doesn’t apply to SJWs, being as they’re weak, defective, degenerate subhumans. So one can engage with them with words and cause all manner of psychic damage. I find that’s as much fun as shooting prairie dogs.

Mad Yale Grad
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Blaximus, “I was the Bluest man alive.”

There’s a culturally insensitive, politically incorrect joke just dying to be made from that.

Russell Peters could get away with it.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Dr. J

Frankly, followers are often the majority of men…and that is why the red pill often does not appeal to them as a mainstream audience.

This still kind of leads to the same point for me though. OK, they’re followers. Red Pill is encouraging natural leaders to become leaders… of the men that want to be followers. The leaders determine their own meaning, handing it down to the followers. This still leaves a situation where I don’t think TRP needs to ever evolve to dictate meaning even to followers; that’s up to the leaders who are created as a result.

Dr. Jeremy
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@ KFG When the red pill “evolves” into a ready made meaning of life, it will be the blue pill. The truth is the truth. At least it would be a ready-made meaning more compatible with the “masculine imperative” too (as it was in past generations). Most people cannot survive outside of one “matrix” or another anyway. So, while it is noble to free those who can be freed entirely, is it not better to simply transplant the rest into a more agreeable social construct? After all, that’s what we’ve had for all of human history anyway…only the programming has… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Not Born This Morning
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Dr. J – “That is why men primarily adopt a red pill perspective only after a serious crisis that has shattered the ideological meaning in their lives.” I partially disagree with you on this; probably because of personal experience. The red pill tapped on my door over a period of time and I cannot remember exactly when the tapping began. Looking back I can identify specific instances in adolescence that were red pill. For me it seems to have always been there becoming more obvious over time. Maybe we are all aware on some level in the beginning that we… Read more »

Badpainter
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Sun Wukong – “Do you really need a pre-packaged ‘meaning of life’ when you’re trying to give men the tools to seek it out on their own instead of coddling them like their previous beliefs did?” Yes. You see to get the best out the average beta he needs to actually believe in something larger than himself: God, country, family, tribe, any of these are sufficient to keep the betas working. If all a beta can be offered in lieu of the blue pill is a vague goal of improved self and a self centered existance then what is his… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Dr Jeremy “men within those roles are more concerned with maintaining the positive symbolic identity and psychological meaning it provides them, than they are with obtaining tangible benefits (or avoiding negative events). ” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p9fM6jTGJpo Yeah that’s the males I grew up with all in a sort paragraph. “Right now, the red pill only appeals to men who are leaders. ” You know your right @kfg I stand corrected you bring up a good point. I suppose I just really enjoy what happens when men lose leadership. Thank you @MYG “brainwashing a young, developing mind in mythology is a type of… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@kfg
“I suppose I just really enjoy what happens when men lose leadership.”
Was making a joke

@Not born this morning
“Maybe our best purpose is to be as honest with ourselves as possible and control our lives to the maximum extent possible.”
A gift to ourselves.

Gunner Q
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Nathan @ May 12th, 2015 at 10:31 pm: “Once game is figured out, a few years at most to master the fundamentals, the Economy is THE THING for the Young Men. Is any other 20’s to early 30’s guys out there…. ANYONE.” Yep, right here. One reason younger guys are taking the Red Pill easily is because we don’t have even the chance to play Beta Game. “This is how to get women interested in you when you’re dirt poor” is quite a selling point. Seeing Manosphere guys report high incomes can be frustrating but that’s probably just because nobody… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“Most people cannot survive outside of one “matrix” or another anyway.”

Q.E.D.

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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Glen, the american military, national guard, law dogs etc have never failed to fire on citizens. Fucking ever. Kent State, Bonus Marchers, Ruby Ridge, the War of Northern Aggression…. they will pull the trigger.

Hell given the changing demographic of the military and who the govt considers the most dangerous Citizens( rural, God fearing White men, most esp Southron country boys)…. well I reckon they’ll do it with a smile.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . nobody brags about living thin.”

Steal this book: http://nocardneeded.tumblr.com/post/30486165370/steal-this-book-by-abbie-hoffman-pdf

Dr. Jeremy
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Dr. Jeremy
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Thank you all of those thoughtful responses. I appreciate your perspectives. As part of clinical counseling education, we’re often taught a perspective exemplified by Rollo above… I make it my purpose to show men a truth, but they need to use that truth to make their own lives better, not according to any design I could contrive for them. In my own experience, however, that does not work out well much of the time. The men like yourselves who comment on this site, and espouse the red pill, are often remarkable – driven, highly intelligent, thoughtful, entrepreneurial, etc. In short,… Read more »

Blaximus
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@Dr. J, “No, in my experience, many men just sit around aimless until someone else imposes some external meaning on them. Even with a “hands off” and helpful counselor, they will simply wait and bounce from an over-controlling mother, to a nagging wife, or to a cultish church, or a driving boss. Sometimes, the best you can do is help them to pick something to follow that won’t exploit them “as much”. For me, that is heartbreaking…and why I don’t do traditional counseling anymore. Nevertheless, I still care about those aimless men and the health of our society in general.… Read more »

SFC Ton
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SFC Ton
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Yea Gunner, I mostly run with vets and 1%’ers but I also deal with more main stream folk, especially down range riding shotgun on NGO hippies, state department SWPL/ SJW UMC dipzhits…. I…. maybe it’s about expectations. No one has any perceived notion of my being politically correct I also agree that the economy kills the chance of playing beta game for younger men, plus they are often hostile toward their mothers. On economic issues my house and two rent houses are paid off. I am a a partner in three small businesses….. Sun, the way I conveyed info to… Read more »

Seraph
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Seraph
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@Jexto,

Thank you for that post of the Alan Watts lecture. Fascinating stuff and I think the kind of thing that will be of great help.

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker
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No, in my experience, many men just sit around aimless until someone else imposes some external meaning on them. Even with a “hands off” and helpful counselor, they will simply wait and bounce from an over-controlling mother, to a nagging wife, or to a cultish church, or a driving boss. Sometimes, the best you can do is help them to pick something to follow that won’t exploit them “as much”. For me, that is heartbreaking…and why I don’t do traditional counseling anymore. Nevertheless, I still care about those aimless men and the health of our society in general. So, I… Read more »

Blaximus
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@Novaseeker

Too many men?

I disagree that there are too many men overall. I agree that there are too many inferior men. I submit that the ratio of inferior men is a function of FI/society. This can be changed without some kind of mass-male die off.

Badpainter
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Badpainter
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“The natural system is broken.”

Easily solution:

Step 1. Outlaw agricultural machinery.

Step 2. End all medicine not related to trama and wound care.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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Thinking about the inferior man concept in personal terms, approx. 30% of the men that I know today have virtually no traditionally masculine skills. One of them is sitting not too far from me at this moment. He has no mechanical skills or interests, no athletic skill or interest, if the supermarkets were to shut down he’d be dead in a week. He has a constant disheveled appearance, can’t hammer a nail under threat of death, and has absolutely no motivation to do anything of meaning or substance. Society says that his way of life is fine. We should just… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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@Dr. Jeremy: Embrace elitism

@Badpainter: And be overrun by a people who do not. Genies do not go back into bottles easily.

ianironwood
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@Thoroughbred Sounds like a plan. If he’s going to the mall and looking at boobs, that’s about the time to start paying attention. Use your judgement, but that’s what I put the Primer up there for. I’m planning some expansion this summer, now that I have a better handle on Consent. And I’m planning on putting the whole presentation on the YouTubes, since that’s where all the kiddies learn stuff on the street these days. Good luck! And get him in Scouts. The confidence he’ll learn with a good troop will be worth months of lectures. It’s never to early… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Novaseeker is correct. The male:female ratio is the problem. Without male specific mass attrition due to war, hunting, rites of passage, etc. a community becomes heavily weighted toward favoring the female sexual strategy exclusively. Take a look at the countries that are named by PUAs who travel as having great, feminine chicks. They’re all places with sub 1.0 male:female ratios. The lower than number is, the more favorable it is to men. In countries that “used to be great, but aren’t as much anymore” (Brazil, for example) they’re approaching 1.0. In most of the first world with bitchy women, grass… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“Then again, if they don’t follow me (or one of you), chances are they will just wait on the curb for someone else to lead them…who might be less kind to their needs (and perhaps our needs too). So, for me at least, that is the dilemma.” Probably best to just keep spreading the truth and providing example. We cannot control what anyone else does with themselves. Each is the captain of his own ship; even those who allow themselves to run adrift. Rollo’s refusal to allow his dot connecting to become a cult or to be deified shows he… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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“The male:female ratio is the problem.”

I disagree with that. That aligns with a scarcity mentality. There just aren’t that many men out there with the character to compete with relative to the number of women available.

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