I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:
It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.
But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.
The side effects are really nasty.
Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.
The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.
Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.
When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.
But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…
It’s easier.
Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill, but the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.
I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.
Wutang from Roosh’s forum:
I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?
While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.
That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.
I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.
Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.
In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.
The Rule
NEO: I can’t go back, can I?
MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to? I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.
You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.
There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.
I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.
I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.
If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.
Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.
Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.
When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.
In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.
As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.
From the Roosh forum again:
The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.
“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”
Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.
I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.
There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.
Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.
So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.
You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.
I really have to question the validity of historical accounts that claim men “self-conceived” as non-homosexual, even though they liked to stick their cocks into other men’s assholes. Such accounts seem, at the very least, to have been created by bi-sexuals not wanting to own what they are, but instead wanting to have it both ways, in more ways than one. This also reminds me of an absurd discussion that I had with a woman who believed that homosexual rape (non-consensual) meant that it was the victim who was not heterosexual. Donovan wrote an article in the early years of… Read more »
“Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.” “I have nothing against teh gayz. I have a few of them in my family and in my friends circle. Good peepz. I just find the whole Jack-in-the-Sphere-Box an interesting twist on things.” Heh. You lack perception, I was speaking about you who we (the commentators) are indifferent to. Not your gay family members. You find the Jack Donovan issue interesting because you lack comprehension of his essay. Did you even read the book? No, I didn’t think so. And yet you comment on it. Remind me not to pick you for… Read more »
“I really have to question the validity of historical accounts that claim men “self-conceived” as non-homosexual, even though they liked to stick their cocks into other men’s assholes.” Forget history you can experience it now in certain regions of the Middle East and other cultures where the sexes are socially segregated until marriage. “Donovan wrote an article in the early years of The Spearhead, in which he described homosexual horseplay as being common and normal among heterosexual boys and men. ” This too in those cultures. As well as same sex hand holding in public. Though certain Europeans do that… Read more »
This post has been an epiphany of sorts. For one thing, it made me rethink trying to be “helpful” to people who prefer self-destructive behavior. Another is that I’m beginning to think that the mysticism voodoo type practices might really explain unexplainable crazy behavior. Seriously. Either way, rock bottom seems to be a place some people have to go before they wake up, and maybe that’s how you help them.
Politically incorrect post disclaimer: I love everybody. I don’t hate anybody. Yes I’ll give you a hug. Yes, you too. But I do enjoy reading about science and biology and a growing body of scientific research doesn’t necessarily support what some people that orbit on one side of the political spectrum feel strongly about. @ Rollo Don’t expend another calorie trying to understand the cause of male homosexuality, asexuality or related phenomenon. Inside the research community the approximate cause is understood but too politically incorrect to pursue. Furthermore the advent of regenerative medicine has ensured that the days of these… Read more »
@Dragonfly: “I know you think she was just going off of the lies she’s been told, and that may have some truth to it, but you need to understand that women are very aware of what they’re doing.”
C’est vrai. There are so many stories I could tell on that statement alone. I’ve been wrong and right in my initial assumptions since learning about trp in the past year+, but day after day I’ve come to appreciate the eyeopeners.
Who here said that if you swallow the red pill deep enough, it turns into blue pill? My friend I present to you a man who went from dateless nerd to world famous pick up artist and has come full circle back to pining for monogamy, traditionalism and marriage “Imagine for a second what the country would be like if these four recommendations were implemented. Would it greatly improve the quality of women, clear their mind of anti-male brainwashing, make them normal weighted, and increase their suitability for marriage? Not as much as we’d like, unfortunately. As long as the… Read more »
So far as I am aware Roosh has always said that his being a PUA was a symptom, not the goal.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
Abraham Lincoln
Parsing Roosh to suggest he is Blue Pill only proves the above quote applies to you. Better to talk trash and remove all doubt that you are a Yale Grad.
Exhibit #1:
http://www.rooshv.com/what-is-neomasculinity
Further reading. Scientists turn off a tiny organ in the nose of female mice (mimicking damage) and the mice turn into Bruce Jenner. Harvard Magazine: When Minnie Turns Mickey When Dulac’s coauthor Kimchi placed these female mutants in a cage with normal male mice, “what she observed was completely astonishing,” Dulac says. “The females started to behave exactly like males.” Suspecting an error, the puzzled researchers checked the mice to ensure that they truly were female. But there was no mistake. Though female, with normal hormone levels and estrus cycles, these mice emitted ultrasonic vocalizations normally sung by males to… Read more »
Roosh quote: “Patriarchy Western society is moving away from a patriarchal-based system where men held sole power and determined the rules governing society. In the past, men like Arthur Schopenhauer and HL Mencken understood the true nature of women and the chaos that would ensue if patriarchal rules were dismantled by allowing women to pursue mating without constraints while allowing them to directly compete with men in the labor market. This has the simultaneous effect of making women less able to fulfill their motherly duties while impoverishing men economically and making them less able or likely to fulfill important provider… Read more »
@zdr01dz Incredibly interesting article there. I’ve always thought the cause for homosexuality was biological and possibly genetic, but it makes sense that it should have been selected out very rapidly if it were only genes. Auto-immune response or vulnerability to a particular infection would definitely make more sense. While people might sue, I know that my homosexual friends have had a rough time of it. While most of them probably wouldn’t want to be “fixed” after having spent a lifetime coming to terms with the problem, if there were a treatment that could keep kids from having to grow up… Read more »
@Novaseeker “Of course, that doesn’t apply to women — women are different in that they really are more sexually fluid than men are, period.” Women =xx Men=xy Women are lips from their mouths to their thigths. “Not in the way that is constructed today, as a fixed orientation. It was not conceived or experienced as such. Bisexual in praxis, yes, but in orientation? The relevant orientation for the age was basically “top” or “bottom” (i.e., a functional descriptor), not “straight”, “gay”, “bi”, as we have today. This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors… Read more »
Interesting stuff there zdoidz. Transgenderism is another strange phenomenon ” Scientists turn off a tiny organ in the nose of female mice (mimicking damage) and the mice turn into Bruce Jenner. ” The nose. Olfactory. Sense of smell. Our most primitive and most important sense. Pheromones. Makes sense. Although it was the sense of smell that we relied on the most in our early, primitive state, it is the sense that is the least developed in us now. We just don’t need it nor use it like we used to. Maybe that explains our current gender confusion. Novaseeker “Of course,… Read more »
Great post.
I’ve learned the hard way many times: always hard to give unwanted advice. It often does more damage to the friendship/relationship although the intentions are positive.
@sjfrellc “You find the Jack Donovan issue interesting because you lack comprehension of his essay. Did you even read the book? No, I didn’t think so. And yet you comment on it.” That wasn’t aimed at me but never having read his book makes no difference to me. Donovan might write a long essay which I read and think that makes a lot of sense etc, knowing he is gay would change nothing about whether I think what he says makes sense or not. What matters to me is that if I was listening to another man who I respected… Read more »
4. MGTOW: At first they said it was all about calling it quits on women wholesale. Then they said no its just calling it quits on the marriage industrial complex but we’ll still sleep with women if we want to (or get to, more like it). Now some are saying a MGTOW can even get married as long as the marriage is one “his terms”. So what’s the deal? In online parlance, “MGTOW” basically refers to any man who’s off-script. There are many scripts out there. The tradcon / white nationalist script: bust your ass and remain celibate, then marry… Read more »
1. Someone said historically most men did not reproduce. I thought it was 40%? Either way it sheds perspective on the complaints that “in them thar good ol’ days evr’y man gotz him a decent wife”. “Recent research using DNA analysis answered this question about two years ago. Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of… Read more »
One has to distinguish between what is “gay” in 2015, and what the Romans and Greeks were doing, for example.
Indeed. The short story is that male homosexuality or bisexuality was not treated as some sort of personal identity. It was something you did, not something that you were.
“I’ve learned the hard way many times: always hard to give unwanted advice. It often does more damage to the friendship/relationship although the intentions are positive.” I’m working with a guy who probably would win CH’s beta of the year award; In the 4-5 months I’ve known this guy, this is the horror I’m looking at; He’s mid 30’s and married a mid/late 40’s UK woman. He worked his fingers to the bone in a trade to support her and her 2 kids from a previous relationship for 10 years. She and the kids had an annual holiday back to… Read more »
@Jay SWill
May 15th, 2015 at 5:40 am
Wow.
Looks like we’ve got a troll trying to attack people on this site, derail meaningful dialog and control the conversation. How’d that happen?
I suggest that this forum doesn’t give them that power by ignoring their unproductive comments and continuing our discussion, or even take a moment to remember George Carlin’s immortal words:“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”
I’m in·dif·fer·ent, having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned.
I think there’s a way to finesse a lot of RP information in a way that makes it more palatable. We know that the stars aren’t gods but burning balls of gas, yet we can still appreciate the beauty of the sky on a clear night without light pollution. Even though the reality is, we’re just bunch of tiny particles sitting on a huge orb traveling through the vastness of space. In a hundred years time, almost none of us, if any of us, or anything we do will matter really. We all pick our illusions. Most people don’t think,… Read more »
“Indeed. The short story is that male homosexuality or bisexuality was not treated as some sort of personal identity. It was something you did, not something that you were.” How it was treated is irrelevant, and that story is probably an exaggeration, like the more recent versions that ultimately ended in the admission that homosexuals are actually around 1% of the population, rather than the almost 10% that had previously been claimed, ha ha, oops. How it was treated is irrelevant, because reality is not determined by consensus, unless you are a woman. What you are is a person who… Read more »
[…] […]
@Blaximus “I changed my oil the other day and it opened my eyes to an ugly reality. It made me question the condition of my air filter. It gave me a nagging suspicion about the remaining life of my spark plugs. I no longer trusted my power steering fluid. 32 pounds of air pressure in my tires no longer gave me the feeling of safety.” Now that’s funny right there! But really……… trolls at :8:11 p.m.(5/14), 8:56, 9:02, 9:40,9:46, 10:11, 10:19, 10:30, 10:47, 10:59, 11:08, 11:12, 11:32, 12:00a.m.(5/15),12:24, 2:45, 5:40, 8:03 is way too trollish. @sfrellc, @rugby, et al, please… Read more »
@ Sun Wukong Incredibly interesting article there. I’ve always thought the cause for homosexuality was biological and possibly genetic, but it makes sense that it should have been selected out very rapidly if it were only genes. Auto-immune response or vulnerability to a particular infection would definitely make more sense. Yeah from Autism to heart disease this is the direction science is headed. Genes sometimes create susceptibility but infections or other environmental bad guys do the dirty work. Gut Microbes Linked to Rheumatoid Arthritis Traits like Asexuality, hoarding, body identity disorder make no sense at all. But modern science is… Read more »
I’m a troll now? Pick your illusion is trolling?
Anyone here ever watch a movie or do we all run around in the theatre pointing and yelling, “THIS ISN’T REAL PEOPLE!!!” Most of us suspend our disbelief willingly. Those who don’t aren’t typically very happy folks. Too much reality can be very depressing.
Scott Adams has a premise he calls ‘pick the delusion that works’ and offers the example of his dog, Snickers. When the dog wants to play fetch in the yard, she follows him around and stares into his eyes with freakish intensity, as if using her Jedi doggy powers on him. More often than not, it works and he takes her outside to play ball. He explains that the interesting thing is…he isn’t sure if she understands that it’s his choice whether to go play ball or not. Her “mental control” works so reliably that he’s certain she probably thinks… Read more »
whole lot of estrogen in this thread and only a few ladies :/
@Stutie It’s the minority of men that would accept TRP. Acquintance (friend?) of mine is 31. His soon to be wife started bringing guys home and banging them…while he was home. He moved into the spare bedroom and tried to “work things out” Her, “pay the rent for the next 3 months, stay in the spare bedroom, and we’ll talk about it” He was genuinely hopeful she was coming around. As soon as the $4500 rent check cleared, she claimed harassment and had the sheriff remove him. Most men choose their own misery. This dude will never take the red… Read more »
Liz,
thanks.
http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/suicide.htm Red pill and social help (Used to help at a fire station) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25ndrm_a-good-job-stories-of-the-fdny-2014-full-documentary_shortfilms How do you help when someone says no but they seriously are an fire? Male suicide rates around the world http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide Keep your head up and ask for help. @Caveclown That sounds as if something I could do a few years ago. Very sad indeed. Please punch me if I ever come off that way an this blog. @Liz Your input is great thank you. @JayWill I’ve played with many people who fancy other men. I just don’t let it affect how I play with them.… Read more »
Tilikum: I meant to say poo.
Longgone: pregp
Oops….prego
@Badpainter… A very good point about the fun, but I was compelled to add a comment. I make a correct and healthy balance of fun out to be : 70% my fun / 30% her fun That way, she does get her fun, but it pales in comparison to the level of fun activities that I get to have. Plus, I get an enthusiastic companion who is entering my world and interests, and she gets to learn something about me. If it doesn’t end up in sex, well at least I have a good time. Detaching from the outcome allows… Read more »
” . . .her fun . . .”
How much skin is it off my nose?
@M Simon “The price of pussy is cheaper than it has ever been. Next. The price of ONE Pussy has never been higher. And perhaps that is what you mean. How to lower the price? Always be ready for NEXT.” Ka-POW! Best comment of the morning! I salute you, sir, for expressing a health RP mentality in as few words as possible. When you stop to realize that 50% of the planet possesses a vagina, that idea reduces their relative worth from chinchilla-lined platinum to a pound of table salt. Once you realize that, you don’t ascribe any special, life… Read more »
@Mikephil
“Detaching from the outcome allows me to fully enjoy the fun event without thinking that much about the inevitable sex. And from where I sit, doing something you enjoy to GET sex is a hell of a lot harder that doing something you enjoy, and getting sex automatically, without working for it.
Communicating your innate enjoyment, nonchalance and a prosperity attitude around women is a cologne like no other.”
REdpill gold just gold
Fuck yeah
Okay… Here’s a shot at a topic change then to get things back on track towards Rollo’s original theme about ingesting the RP and not going back. I think someone posted it here, or maybe it was a tweet from Rollo, CH or Roosh. I can’t remember, but if you really want to see the most exquisite (and in many ways sad and depressing) example of real time, full blown, bat-shit crazy solipsism, check out Janne Robinson — pronounced “Yanay” — a self-described poet, columnist, feminist and bushwalker. I swear it’s like watching a train wreck but it has so… Read more »
@rugby,
Is it you that is the dancer? If so, what type of dancing are you into and what type of scene is it? (Average age range of the women, etc.) Whoever posted that a few threads back re-kindled memories of the dancing game working for me many years ago, but the type of dancing they mentioned seemed….”foreign”. Please advise and thanks in advance.
@ Glenn
I mean this respectfully, but there is a capitalism red pill that you should consider taking, my friend.
In case you didn’t see it, Rollo re-tweeted a link today to an article by Amy Alkon
“Science Says ‘Lean In’ Is Filled With Flawed Advice, Likely to Hurt Women”
http://observer.com/2015/05/science-says-lean-in-is-filled-with-flawed-advice-likely-to-hurt-women/
You know, I realized something… When you start scrolling past MYG’s posts, you see TRM get better. It makes you start enjoying the other posters. It makes you understand that in comparison the majority of the people are witty, more interesting and frankly capable of a great deal of introspection. You appreciate them. It makes the bulk of women seem less self-centered and less solipsistic in comparison. It makes you can’t stand how much time you wasted reading MYG. It makes any joke funnier if MYG is the punchline. It makes you question everything, especially why you were reading him/her/it… Read more »
“In case you didn’t see it, Rollo re-tweeted a link today to an article by Amy Alkon”
Countdown to Alkon and Berenson being declared right-wing, fascist, self-hating, neocon, sexist Nazi, rape supporting bitches in…3…2…1
The dangers of the red pill?
Coming to the realization that you are part of a society that thoroughly and completely sucks, and wanting nothing further to do with it. Consumerism, politics, economy, the Jones’, facebook, television, hollywood, “rights”… all simply “noise” and “spam” to keep you focused on anything and everything besides what actually has weight.
The image translators work FOR the construct:
Rollo, Regarding the Amy Alkon article…and why feminists may give advice that could be flawed and hurtful for feminine women. Madison, G., Aasa, U., Wallert, J., & Woodley, M.(2014). Feminist activist women are masculinized in terms of digit-ratio and dominance: A possible explanation for the feminist paradox. Frontiers in Psychology, 5, 1011. Abstract: The feminist movement purports to improve conditions for women, and yet only a minority of women in modern societies self-identify as feminists. This is known as the feminist paradox. It has been suggested that feminists exhibit both physiological and psychological characteristics associated with heightened masculinization, which may… Read more »
This is the flaw. Self-Identifying feminists may be a minority, but the ideology ensaturates a much larger majority. Go into any mainstream evangelical church and ask the women if they’d call themselves feminists and 100% would say “hell no”.
Ask them a question about there position on any feminist boilerplate issue or egalitarian equalism and you’ll see how closely they align with the imperative.
Then, go ask the same of the pastor. He’ll mirror their responses.
Jay, “I have no idea how a group of hetero(normal) males listening to a professional MMA fighter in a gym talk about self-improvement etc etc, while everybody is in shorts, could stand there while gay men are alongside them potentially getting hard at the thought of the hot instructor guy. Am I way off there or what?” – You’re not off. Not by a long shot. Such thoughts would be entering many a straight man’s mind in that situation. Like everyone, Donovan makes *some* good points. Very basic and kind of obvious, but good. I’ve even watched his AmRen convention… Read more »
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/4ffdf33fecad04d77200000b/sheryl-sandberg-sells-another-5-million-in-facebook-shares.jpg
zdoidz, “Yeah from Autism to heart disease this is the direction science is headed. Genes sometimes create susceptibility but infections or other environmental bad guys do the dirty work. Gut Microbes Linked to Rheumatoid Arthritis” – Thousands of years’ old traditional Indo-Chinese health and medicinal systems are built around “gut theory” CaveClown, “Acquintance (friend?) of mine is 31. His soon to be wife started bringing guys home and banging them…while he was home.” – She transitioned the marriage from a closed, monogamous, blue pill one to an open, polyamorous, red pill one. “He moved into the spare bedroom and tried… Read more »
“That’s actually a Buddhist meditation.”
I’ve clearly missed my calling.
I’m going to make little maltese statues and people can rub their bellies for luck.
Is feminism just a natural process (global scale “shit test”)?
“Is feminism just a natural process (global scale “shit test”)?” We kind of were hitting on this in previous Posts, the Politics is Personal one. My take on it is this, no, but… Leftism seeks absolute power. It seeks to gain that power anyway possible. In order for it to gain power, it has to sweep away all previous societal and cultural conventions. Feminism both helps break down societal cohesion, AND it both exploits and ignores certain biological realities to create discord among the sexes, just as it seeks to create discord among other elements of society. Within the collapse… Read more »
@Liz “When the dog wants to play fetch in the yard, she follows him around and stares into his eyes with freakish intensity, as if using her Jedi doggy powers on him. More often than not, it works and he takes her outside to play ball. He explains that the interesting thing is…he isn’t sure if she understands that it’s his choice whether to go play ball or not. Her “mental control” works so reliably that he’s certain she probably thinks all that matters is how hard she stares at him and how vividly she imagines herself chasing a tennis… Read more »
@Off_Topic
Many folks in the ‘sphere do look at feminism as a “meta-shit test”. I tend to agree with that assessment of it, as guys who pass the test by ignoring feminist conventions tend to be the ones getting female attention and getting enthusiastic desire from women.
“Many folks in the ‘sphere do look at feminism as a “meta-shit test”. I tend to agree with that assessment of it,…”
We are classifying and conceptualizing Feminism after it developed. The development involved a growing consensus spawned by a few extremists. Monkey see, monkey do. Most people do not want freedom (maybe especially women). Most people follow someone else’s agenda because they have none of their own.
“.. Most people do not want freedom (maybe especially women). Most people follow someone else’s agenda because they have none of their own.”
Sad but true.
@longgone Balboa and zizomba with some blues. Self surgery today Perceptions vs reality When I was growing up I didn’t understand what a shit test was. I only knew that if the emotional validation wasn’t meant I would get physically hurt. That was supposed to be funny. Least when I tried to bring it up in a social context. The religion I grew up in was always talking about the moral sins of the world when I saw plenty of people doing good things that weren’t so tied to god literally. Every time I got shit tested which looking back… Read more »
@Rugby “It’s really cool not being the guy I was yesterday. It’s really helpful to become the performer the alpha that I kept trying to kill and did buried in the nightmare of my youth. It’s really hard to admit that I was being socialized to hate myself. It’s even harder to admit the ego investments that meant little to nothing and it’s even harder to admit that the morals I was protected where none existent in person to person interactions.” How is your confidence level in this regard these days? How is your mastery level in this regard? If… Read more »
@DividedLine – I’ll debate you on economics anywhere, anytime. Just not here.
@Glenn I cleared my mind. I have no ill will towards you and would like to apologize. For three reasons: 1. I have a lot of respect for your comments and your congruent thoughts. 2. Came across this in the article above about Sandberg Although Ms. Sandberg, like other business advice writers, repeats the stereotype of women as “communal,” it is actually men who evolved to be cooperators in a way that women, ever-vigilant that another woman might get one over on them, did not. When men aren’t fighting each another, they are quick to band together against a common… Read more »
“But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier.” This also sheds light on the issue of people who are rp-aware or even claim to be rp, but then routinely make bad decisions. (I’m not discounting that it takes time to discern some things, and no one’s going to be perfect every single time.) …Maybe I’m wrong and maybe it’s not that simple? …and law #10: “Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky. Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to… Read more »
@GWADT – There is too much to catch up on but something you said really captured the magnitude of what happens to a man when he realizes that the woman he’s married to didn’t really mean her vows. Of course, such vows are always aspirational and as a man, I saw it was an ideal I sought to achieve in my marriage. To my ex, they were just some words she said that day. She didn’t ever aspire to be a good wife, she aspired to have me deliver her the fantasy of the life she thought she wanted and… Read more »
Off Topic, “Is feminism just a natural process (global scale “shit test”)?” Who knows? I never took a Womens’ Studies course or read much, if any Feminist literature, aside from an article here and there. My impression is that like any “movement” it has various branches and opposing views such as 3rd wave sex positive feminism vs 2nd wave anti-porn feminism (which in the 70s and 80s aligned with some religious trad-con anti-porn and anti-sex work activists), etc. All of the movements for freedom, liberty, equality, labour rights, etc started out with good intentions and good works and then some… Read more »
@SifrelleC – Nice and of course no hard feelings. And I am a bit of an asshole anyway, lol. @Rugby – I cried reading your comments. I could relate to so much of it. My life was half dominated by women. You see after my mom died at age 11, my 2 older bros had just gone on to college. Up till then there were 4 boys and my mom and big sister – and my mom didn’t run the house. The newborn who my Mom passed giving birth two was a girl. My Dad marries stepmom 15 months later… Read more »
@MYG – Start with Mary Wolstencroft, wrt feminism and move forward from there. To really see where the shit hits the fan, read Bette Friedan’s “The Feminine Mystique” a book my radfem sister gave me to learn about feminism. And of course, politics had nothing to do with it all – that Friedan was a communist and worked as a writer for a communist, labor newspaper was just coincidence, lol. She also never was a stay at home housewife or mom, she had live in help. And oh yeah, she beat her husband. There was actually also a more family… Read more »
AmRn is bigoted and racist?
Let’s see…. when Japan wants to keep Japanese no one bitches
When Mexico wants to keep Mexico Mexican no one bitches
When Spike Lee wants to keep Harlem Black no one bitches
When White folk want to preserve their people, traditions and way of life it’s racist. Leftist are the most hypocritical cum guzzling morons of all time.
AmRn is bigoted and racist?
Let’s see…. when Japan wants to keep Japanese no one bitches
When Mexico wants to keep Mexico Mexican no one bitches
When Spike Lee wants to keep Harlem Black no one bitches
When White folk want to preserve their people, traditions and way of life it’s racist.
Anti racism is anti White
Pro immigration is anti White
” . . . when Japan wants to keep Japanese no one bitches . . .”
Which just goes to show, you don’t know any weeaboos who moved to the Holy Land to teach English.
They honestly don’t get why the Japanese persist in treating them as if they were, ya know, alien, when they’ve been living there for months now.
@Glenn I get to think that if I had just been “Alpha enough” I could have avoided it all. But would you have cared to? That’s the other part I think I’ve learned. Once you’re “Alpha enough”, the big question is what you give enough fucks about to work towards. Would the Alpha version of yourself give a shit about keeping the woman the Beta loved? Probably not. The daughter? Maybe. The burden of performance indeed. And who cares how mangled we get along the way, right? Every man wipes his own ass. That includes deciding what’s worth your performance… Read more »
@Glenn
And I am a bit of an asshole anyway, lol.
“A bit”.
http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/251-scotch.jpg
@Emily “This also sheds light on the issue of people who are rp-aware or even claim to be rp, but then routinely make bad decisions. (I’m not discounting that it takes time to discern some things, and no one’s going to be perfect every single time.) …Maybe I’m wrong and maybe it’s not that simple?” Simple version: Some people have no mastery. Complex Version: God should never have given man free will. Because that just screws most of the morons out there. Super Complex Version: Reminds me of the Book V, Chapter 5 in The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky… Read more »
I’m reminded of when I told my parents I didn’t believe in God.
Boy, did they get mad. Exploded. That turned into a screaming match in about a millionth of a second.
Feminism, or whatever you want to call it, is one of the sacred cows in our society. Similar results are to be expected.
@Softek
Feminism, or whatever you want to call it, is one of the sacred cows in our society. Similar results are to be expected.
“Wait you’re not a feminist?”
“Nope. So I’m gonna have the steak…”
An hour later I was fucking her like a beast. It’s all about frame, frame, and frame.
@Glenn “…GWADT – There is too much to catch up on but something you said really captured the magnitude of what happens to a man when he realizes that the woman he’s married to didn’t really mean her vows.” Yes, I think most men don’t realize that this is what they’re getting… what they are walking into. What I’m worried about is how will their marriage be (especially their sex life) 5 or 10 years from after the wedding? If she wasn’t even attracted to him enough through dating a few YEARS… how is marriage going to change that? It’s… Read more »
@Dragonfly
My only hope is maybe desire can be negotiated
It can’t.
maybe they really will have a good life together.
They won’t.
We all want to believe ourselves and the people we know are the exception to the rule. We aren’t. The lack of that realization is a lot of what’s fucked up in modern society.
Rollo, have you seen this: http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/living/lisa-ling-sugar-baby-essay/ Just saw it on CNN. A memorable quote is when the host asked what these young women are seeking. This young blonde said she’s seeking a mentor, getting $4000/month. She said I’m not going to take $300 just to have sex, I’m not a prostitute. Why is it that women can just rationalize this so easily? She is a college graduate, at least a 6 or 7 in looks, seems fairly intelligent, and yet $4000 is mentorship b/c it pays the bills/school and $300 is prostitution? Hypergamy doesn’t care I know, but many times… Read more »
@Adam Man
Sugar Babies? In the immortal words of Ludacris:
@Sun Wukong… does living in denial count as having a “good” life together? I tend to think… probably not when it really comes down to it. Ignorance is bliss? To me, bliss is knowing truth and being able to deal with it mentally, emotionally, even spiritually. I don’t think life can ever be really “good” if it is lived in some kind of denial or ignorance… but then again, maybe the people living in their denial feel differently?
@ Adam Man That video is another data point that shows the arithmetic of life. The two girls in the 1:30 clip weren’t even hot. Meh…. 6s, maybe low 7s. And yet when they offer sex for ca$h their SMV shoots through the roof. The rope drops and they get escorted to the front of the line where millionaires are allowed to compete for their favors. Looked at from a business standpoint this is an environment where men are at an extreme disadvantage. They have to pay a lot to get an inferior product. It’s akin to the housing bubble… Read more »
@Dragonfly
There’s a difference between ignorance and denial. People in denial know what they’re in denial of on some level. The ignorant simply don’t. It’s why the ignorant can be happy, but those in denial are almost universally miserable.
Most modern marriages are built wholly on denial from what I’ve observed. Poor imitations of a genuinely happy marriage, held up by denial and desperation.
@sjfrellc
I women I danced with called me Ivan after she heard my deepest thoughts two weeks ago.
Just came back from a 12 mile walk it helped a huge bit since I was nature
@Glenn
Would to hear you and Dragonfly have a conversation for some reason that would make me happy.
Three things I have been thinking about while killing my beta.
Stage one
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=L8gBht5aHYI
Stage two
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=asEQeCfaEgE
Stage three
Stage four
Stage five
Stage six
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BE5jhNlUGFk
Goodnight sphere
I am no longer me. Least not the me I know anymore.
Why is it that women can just rationalize this so easily? She is a college graduate, at least a 6 or 7 in looks, seems fairly intelligent, and yet $4000 is mentorship b/c it pays the bills/school and $300 is prostitution? The existence of sugar babies is hardly surprising. They were taught from young age, just like other average girls, that they are victims, that they are entitled to all sorts of things that evil men will try to heartlessly swindle them out of, that men are to be used. They believe the average life, i.e. some boring and grueling… Read more »
@insanitybytes22 “Men are scary, Tomassi. They are scary when they stab you 32 times. They are scary when they pour boiling water on you or leave you in a shallow grave somewhere. They are scary when they shoot their wives and babies in the head. Do you not know these things??” Women are scary, insanitybytes22. They’re scary when they hire hitmen to kill you. They’re scary when they incite proxy violence on men by other men. They’re scary when they shame men into dying in pointless wars. They’re scary when they slut shame and even mutilate the clitoris of their… Read more »
“But I know, men are supposed to be strong and not afraid. We’re not supposed to feel hurt or victimized. We’re not supposed to defend ourselves when women attack us. We’re not supposed to feel angry.” Of course you’re supposed to feel all those things. What you are not supposed to do is wallow in perpetual victimhood like feminists do, seeking revenge against all of womankind for past hurts. Of course there is nothing I can do about it, that is true. But you really only hurt yourselves when you insist on clinging to all that rage and resentment, without… Read more »
Well, let’s see, I think the men in the manosphere are vindictive, revenge seeking assholes. I wonder what will come up if I used my brain and type the word “revenge” into the search field on TRM?
http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/15/rejection-revenge/
See how easy that was? Now you try it.
What?! It’s in the 2nd book too? Gee,…thanks Rollo
“I think the men in the manosphere are vindictive, revenge seeking assholes.”
Not at all. I’ve met some very kind ones who have spoken to me civilly.
Just the same, there are some real yahoos out there who take your words as an endorsement and advocacy of revenge against all of womankind. You and many of the men who comment at your site encourage and promote this attitude with your endless celebration of resentment and bitterness. That is perpetual victimhood, a never ending race to the bottom, precisely the same ideals expressed by feminism, except with the genders reversed.
Insanitybytes, women share and look for support and find it all over the web. Men have very few places to share these ideas and find support…particularly in a way that is empowering. The anecdotes here are pretty horrifying to me, on a personal level (my brother committed suicide when I was 13). It isn’t our place, it’s a place for men to vent and I think that’s a good thing.
Now I’ll shut up and work on making those maltese statues in my 3D printer.
@insanitybytes22 What you are not supposed to do is wallow in perpetual victimhood like feminists do, seeking revenge against all of womankind for past hurts. Of course there is nothing I can do about it, that is true. But you really only hurt yourselves when you insist on clinging to all that rage and resentment, without ever healing and coming out on the other side with some victory. You’ll forgive me if I decide that a woman’s sermon on what I should be doing as a man rings quite hollow coming from a woman who wouldn’t dare let a man… Read more »
@Liz, “Insanitybytes, women share and look for support and find it all over the web. Men have very few places to share these ideas and find support…particularly in a way that is empowering. The anecdotes here are pretty horrifying to me, on a personal level (my brother committed suicide when I was 13). It isn’t our place, it’s a place for men to vent and I think that’s a good thing.” Maybe including you in the troll post list was incorrect, maybe not. There are subversive trolls, there are concern-trolls, and they all take up space and time. “It isn’t… Read more »
Insanitybytes, women share and look for support and find it all over the web. More importantly, they find it outside the web as well. As a general rule, if you as a woman want to make some complaint, no matter how delusional or baseless, about any man you ever had any connection with, or just men in general, society will rush to kiss your ass. Almost all women, and a large segment of men, from your social circle will celebrate you. If you have some fame, you’ll get invited on TV and radio shows, and offered to write guest columns.… Read more »
@insanitybytes22:
Gone yet?
@glenn Holy crap dude, can I relate to what I’ve read of your story. I went through your comment about your marriage and mentally checked things off…yep she’s done that. Yep, that too. Ah, yes that as well. My youngest is 4 years old, we are finally starting to have a relationship. Wife just would not allow it before that. Amazing how she was so able to destroy my relationship with her while in the same house. She clung to the little one, and distanced herself from me and our oldest daughter. 7 year old, “Why does mommy like [youngest]… Read more »
Marriage Counsleing: also known as “Last Stop Before Toll
“You pretend to get it but can’t stay away.” A fair point. It is hard for me to stay away from subject matter that interests me, if the site owner finds no objections (I don’t peruse Return of Kings, for instance, in great part because the site owner does not want female participation). Since I read Rollo’s material it’s often hard to stay completely away from reading the comments (plus, I’m prone to OCDs). I’ll do it for a few weeks and then keep reading… Please understand the purpose of my ‘pick you illusion/delusion’ post. It comes from life experience,… Read more »
@dragonfly Negotiating desire is a fool’s errand. No good will come of it, nor is it even possible. The best anyone could hope for is obligated compliance, which is sexy as hell, let me tell ya. Nothing like a chick that “allows” you to have sex with her so that you won’t leave, all while telling you that it is because of her attraction and desire for you. Desire has peaks and valleys for sure. But it also has a baseline that will not change. There is no forcing it. That’s one reason men like myself get in trouble with… Read more »
lol on the “rollo celebrates victimhood” blah blah blah
I’m here exactly for the reasons that rollo does NOT do that, and hasn’t gone purple either.
@insanitybytes22
Straw-man FUD. Produce said insane person as proof, or shut up. When that happens, I’ll vomit out copious real-life examples of women openly deciding to end the race of men, and we’ll decide who has the greater claim to evil.
@rollo
I hear you on the marriage counseling. (although, was that the full comment? it looks cut off?)
Anyway,
I’m a wealthy man, I have reasons to kick the divorce can down the road a bit. MC is a tool to do just that.
Not as naive, or the “nice guy” she believes I am.
The games we play baby.
@CaveClown,
“Marriage Counsleing: also known as “Last Stop Before Toll”
I second that
What she really wants is a counselor to pity her as the victim, and if she doesn’t get it will reject the current counselor. Ours was female, divorced, and relatively neutral/fair. Wife ultimately rejected her as biased towards me, found one to pity her, but I bought some time (10+ YEARS!). I should have bailed then when I had better SMV and before it was too expensive in many ways. Good luck.
“You’ll forgive me if I decide that a woman’s sermon on what I should be doing as a man rings quite hollow coming from a woman who wouldn’t dare let a man give her the same instruction.” Actually Jeremy, it was a man that taught me precisely that. I wouldn’t dare let a man give me the same instruction? Nonsense, I did. If I had instead remained bitter and walled off, I would still be a feminist, unmarried, and unhappy. Tomassi wrote “dangers of the red pill.” There are dangers for both men and women when men remain trapped in… Read more »
It’s not the manosphere you need to worry about, it’s your sisters (even your good Christian sisters), embracing open Hypergamy.
The genie is out of the bottle, and your girlfriends are waving the victory flag. The Red Pill and Game is the contingency.
“It’s not the manosphere you need to worry about, it’s your sisters (even your good Christian sisters), embracing open Hypergamy.” Tomassi, does not your constant fear of women’s alleged hypergamy, actually lead you to practice quite a bit of confirmation bias, where what you seek to avoid you actually eventually bring down upon your own selves? I mean no offense, but if I was married to the vast majority of any of you, I’d be planning my escape ASAP. I don’t want to tell my so called “sisters” to stop practicing open hypergamy, I want to tell them to avoid… Read more »
@CaveClown, “I’m a wealthy man, I have reasons to kick the divorce can down the road a bit. MC is a tool to do just that.” How can you think that? Hope your wealth is well-sheltered because that wealth in itself is incentive enough for her. The counseling is opening formal negotiations for it nothing more. Feel lucky you got this much warning. Things are much farther advanced in her plans than you want to admit. I wasn’t wealthy but on the way to modest affluence when our “counseling” commenced. She just did the math and cashed out later when… Read more »
Just look what happened to Nicolas Cage after he took The Red Pill:
^^ 1:52 for the original moment he swallowed it
be careful guys
insanitybytes – “That is exactly the same road feminists went down…” Bullshit. In classic femine fashion the feminists cried, rent their clothes, burned their bras, and demanded men make things right. They did less than fuck all beyond raising awareness. We men are going to fix this problem without your help. You have nothing of value to contribute. This is not a negotiation, or concensus building project, or even a group project. The only thing we want is for your type to STFU and get out of the way. We expect nothing from you but bile, hate, and lies. If… Read more »
@ Badpainter “In classic femine fashion the feminists cried, rent their clothes, burned their bras, and demanded men make things right. They did less than fuck all beyond raising awareness.” You forgot Free The Nipple. If you can’t understand that women going topless is going to solve all the world’s problems, honestly I don’t know what you’re doing here. When women show their nipples, and at the same time men don’t sexually objectify them, the stars will align and the first thing that’ll happen is the dissolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The corruption and pollution in China will also dissipate… Read more »
InsanityBytes… you know I love reading your blog, I usually learn quite a bit from what you have to say, but I believe you are wrong about Rollo, the “red pill,” and about what is happening with these men. Search it out for yourself, really read what Rollo writes, figure out the man that he is. When I did, I was able to support him publicly in full confidence.
She simply has no intellectual curiosity. It’s all narrative. There’s no debating insanity because she simply refuses to read anything counter to her ego-investments
Rollo – “It’s not the manosphere you need to worry about, it’s your sisters…” Indeed true. Just the last five years of ridiculous complaints and shrieks from the milder mainstream voices of Feminism has done tremendous damage to the notion of gender equity. Really it proves most of old school chauvinism. The message is women are stupid, weak, vindictive, and generally unreliable as partners, coworkers and leaders. Not to mention incapable of recognizing their own problems let alone solving them. But somehow they are to be heard and heeded. Somehow men are expected to respect and value them. For what?… Read more »
Insanitybytes – “I mean no offense, but if I was married to the vast majority of any of you, I’d be planning my escape ASAP.”
I like to most of us wouldn’t have pursued you beyond the first meeting.