The Dangers of the Red Pill

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I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:

It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.

But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.

The side effects are really nasty.

Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.

The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.

Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.

When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.

It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.

But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…

It’s easier.

Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pillbut the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.

I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.

Wutang from Roosh’s forum:

I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?

While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.

That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.

I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.

Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.

In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.

The Rule

NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to?  I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.

I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.

I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.

If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.

Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.

Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.

When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.

In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.

As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.

From the Roosh forum again:

The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.

“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”

Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.

I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.

There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.

Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.

So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Dragonfly
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“When the blue pill beta first finds out that the woman who vowed her undying love to him in front of his family, friends, and his God, was in his mind lying…it can be a little bit hard to handle. “Take” the red pill? More like “hit by a truck”” I know you think she was just going off of the lies she’s been told, and that may have some truth to it, but you need to understand that women are very aware of what they’re doing. There is Open Hypergamy now in the way of Sheryl Sandberg, but it… Read more »

longgone
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@rugby
Hope your team’s melt-down is temporary; if not maybe you’ll start your own.

sjfrellc
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I was just thinking you can adapt features of his format to keep the discussion focused. “The format of each session is as follows: 8:00 PM – Quick round table. Tell us your top three priorities in life at the moment. 8:10 PM – Weekly review roundtable. Reflect on your goals from last week’s meeting. Did you get your shit done? Why or why not? Questions, suggestions, and calling people out for bullshit, rationalizations and weakness is highly encouraged. 8:15 PM – Presentation. One member gives a short presentation on a topic that other members can use to improve their… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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@Dragonfly – Yea….and that’s how and why bad practices continue in any culture or family or relationship. “Damn the torpedoes” and “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” I’ve found it best to get things out in the open. Your grand mother may have been to the same school my mother attended. There were a lot of red pill bottles laying around my house when I was a little boy….and they were not happy pills….. I wrote the following with guitar chords and all, it was very therapeutic and helped me reconcile. I assumed and feared it… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@sjfrellc

Already ahead of you. Didn’t steal the whole format, but a couple aspects of it. We’ll see where it goes from there. You gonna be there this Sunday?

Dragonfly
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In other words, your life itself is a letter (that’s scripture, too) that people will either want to read or will reject. People, no matter what political side they’re on, will either look at you and your life and want to emulate it, be jealous of it, or ignore it altogether. You make a statement very powerfully, (even a political statement), by how you live your life, the choices you make speak louder anyway than anything you can espouse about to the public. Many of my husband’s coworkers, his friends, my friends, our mutual friends… read my blog. I cannot… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Dragonfly There are many things my adorable 4 year old son espouses that are extremely “misogynistic” to the world’s view, but I don’t publish them on facebook or my blog because I don’t want him to be marked by things (his opinions, which obviously come from our opinions) that are best kept private. Maybe I’m weird, but nothing about my kids (if I had any) would go up on the internet. Permanent public records about them made without their understanding have a way of coming back to haunt them. I’d rather let them get old enough to decide the level… Read more »

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Maybe. If Glenn hints at not kicking me in the balls.

I’d love to. I’m way behind in my hunting habitat/ farming tasks and the grasses and winter annuals are taking over the food plots.

I’ll try my best to attend.

Not Born This Morning
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Gentle persuasion and consideration for others certainly can be effective. You cannot train a horse without respecting it and “getting into its mind” some. However, there will always be extremists related to any issue who are so delusional and ego invested they are willing to literally fight to the death. No fundamental change occurs without risk and casualties. Freedom is not free. I refuse to be a hostage.

Softek
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I remember choking on the Red Pill. I don’t remember what choking on it felt like. I remember when my life revolved around fantasies about being with women. I don’t remember what that felt like. The illusions are cleared away. So what now? Dr. Jeremy said: “…the red pill may need to evolve further, especially if it wants to be a viable perspective for more men. A base of pragmatism is an excellent foundation for survival, but man needs a sense of meaning and purpose to truly “live” too.” I agree with Rollo’s perspective about men needing to come to… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
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Whispering about the elephant in the room or the emperor with no clothes will not get the elephant out of the room or dress the emperor.

Sun Wukong
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@sjfrellc

Glenn’s bark is worse than his bite. Don’t let it stop you from joining. wink

Not Born This Morning
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“What’re you going to do once your eyes are open?”

Answer: Take a look around, observe consequences of actions rather than hoping for actions dreamt of before.

Not Born This Morning
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Dragonfly – “In other words, your life itself is a letter (that’s scripture, too) that people will either want to read or will reject. People, no matter what political side they’re on, will either look at you and your life and want to emulate it, be jealous of it, or ignore it altogether. You make a statement very powerfully, (even a political statement), by how you live your life, the choices you make speak louder anyway than anything you can espouse about to the public” Precious please know – “You can waste a whole lifetime trying to be what you… Read more »

sjfrellc
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“What’re you going to do once your eyes are open?”

Go out and make yourself someone a girl would want to get with. Athletically lift or train, have passionate pursuits on the side, have a mission outside work, family and friends. Read books and inspiring literature. (By the way TheBluepillProfessor has quit an impressive reading list of Red pill books related to Game.)
http://www.reddit.com/r/redpillbooks/comments/2fae6w/red_pill_books_from_the_professor/

Obtain Mastery in your job, in your pursuits and in Game.

Be the best you can be and don’t settle. Keep telling yourself at every stage in your life, “Now is not the time to be complacent”.

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@Caveclown “When I decided to KILL the beta, man I wanted that sucker dead. I even went so far as to destroy most old photographs of myself during that time period. He’s a tough son of a bitch though. Didn’t go down without a fight. Got him by the throat now. I don’t lose” I am trying to kill him. He comes back at night and wants my self back. I see him as a sex addict who doesn’t know how to not care about the feelings of others. He’s doing what he can but I tried to drown the… Read more »

CaveClown
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@dragonfly

Thanks for sharing the story of your grandparents.

My mom’s parents: Beta man, bitchy woman.

My dad’s parents: Alpha man, feminine woman that worshiped him.

So what comes first, a bitchy woman or a beta man?

Not Born This Morning
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From the Christian perspective it would be a beta man…..Adam

Liz
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“My mom’s parents: Beta man, bitchy woman.
My dad’s parents: Alpha man, feminine woman that worshiped him.
So what comes first, a bitchy woman or a beta man?”

My dad was pretty alpha and my mom was still a bitch.
But it was passive aggressive instead of direct, so there’s that.
He had two years of married life that were good, before she was fluent in English.

Jay Will
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“insanitytrites22 you still cling to staring at the shadows on the back of the cave wall when Men have shown you there’s a sun shining outside the cave.”

Poor response. Its a freak, possibly a weak male or some kind of inbetweener. Freaks are easy for me, I know my own kind. Ignore or make fun of.

Jay Will
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Im the man!!!

CaveClown
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“My dad was pretty alpha and my mom was still a bitch.
But it was passive aggressive instead of direct, so there’s that.”

I LOVE passive aggressiveness! It’s my favorite thing ever.

“He had two years of married life that were good, before she was fluent in English.”

No offense, but this made me laugh. So… they had a good marriage when she couldn’t say anything to him? Doesn’t that describe all marriages? lol

Jay Will
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How does the gay thing work here? Theres notables above. They always hijack anything masculine as arse banditry don’t they? Is anyone with any real bollox and does well with women got the guts to call out homo for what it is? That Jack Donovan wants to fuck men he fancies doesn’t he? Are you happy buying into a guy when the male image your looking up to is one that he wants to fuck? Does that all come together in some hippy lovefest? The Vikings went pillaging and plundering while handjobbing each other on those lonely long trips? Hollywood… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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QUESTIONS: 1. Someone said historically most men did not reproduce. I thought it was 40%? Either way it sheds perspective on the complaints that “in them thar good ol’ days evr’y man gotz him a decent wife”. 2. Someone said the gubmint/po po is gon pull gunz on “hard working, god fearing white men”. A. why do you think the gubmint/po po is going to switch from killing black dudes to white ones, and B. when do you think this switch will happen and finally, C. why exactly do they “fear” god? 3. MBTI: Someone said it was commissioned by… Read more »

Liz
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“So… they had a good marriage when she couldn’t say anything to him? Doesn’t that describe all marriages? lol”

Yep. Most marriages.
Some men are probably lucky enough to be married to mutes. razz

Blaximus
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Is it troll-ish in here, or is it just me?

Jay Will
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I’ll have a look at that tomorrow. I read up to where even with gays its dominant/sumbmissive. This would suggest insecurity amongst weaker men like me around gays is due to fear of their predatorial capability. Being dominated by another male as if I am the woman/submissive is a fear (prisons). Even more reason for average men, and dominant men WHO GIVE A FCK ABOUT THE GROUP THEY ARE IN to keep them out. Homosexuality is an underminer of male groups. Hence why “superior” people like to use it as a weapon, its to stick the boot into the little… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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” It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to. But it’s a difficult pill to swallow. The side effects are really nasty. Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too. The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see. Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery. When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality. It makes you stop enjoying many things in life. It makes you find the… Read more »

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One has to distinguish between what is “gay” in 2015, and what the Romans and Greeks were doing, for example. In the latter case, there was no conception of a “fixed gay sexual orientation”. Doubtless there were likely a small number who had such, as we have today, but the much larger number of men who were having sex with other men and boys were not only having sex with these, but also with their female wives. This was not considered abnormal. The sex was a kind of bonding among males, as well as an aspect of pedagogy in Greece,… Read more »

Blaximus
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Why, YES!!! It is getting troll-ish in here!!

CaveClown
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@blaximus

Trolls?

I thought it was getting that way too.

But I’m a gay, vegetarian, polygamous (celibate though, I only beta provide for multiple other gay men. no sex), unemployed expat that burned his passport while drinking some sort of bad kool-aid.

So what would I know?

Now excuse me, myself and my ex-born again christian friends must gather to honor buddha.

Blaximus
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@Cave,

I laughed, Atlas shrugged.

Blaximus
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@MYG,

I changed my oil the other day and it opened my eyes to an ugly reality.

It made me question the condition of my air filter.

It gave me a nagging suspicion about the remaining life of my spark plugs.

I no longer trusted my power steering fluid.

32 pounds of air pressure in my tires no longer gave me the feeling of safety.

Mad Yale Grad
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Jay Will, Jack Donovan is an odd one. I find Glenn’s championing of him weird as well. Someone else on here said Deida was a “fag” while Donovan is not. Though Deida is not only a heterosexual, the man gets laid like tile, by very attractive women. Some other blogger said “some men are just so masculine and so much identify with the masculine that they don’t find the feminine attractive at all” in an attempt to justify Donovan’s takeover of the sphere. Yeah the hamster’s strong in that one. I don’t know what to make of it myself. Here’s… Read more »

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For the record, she reminds me what my take on taking the Red Pill: “It is an easy choice to make, yet not inevitable. You don’t have to” It is not a difficult pill to swallow The actual effects were good. Ever since I did , my life changed to the better, and to the sweet too. The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. And I LIKE what I see. I see hippocracy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery. I always knew it existed now I see it clearly When you see the world in red pill… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Rollo, I think his point was that m4m had more ads, because that sentence is preceded by, “In such a harsh and competitive environment many straight men are resorting to some sexual relief from other men anonymously. Don’t believe me? Go on craigslist personals section for your city and see for yourself.” and proceeded by ”And yes I myself am personally guilty of this.”

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I take it that two commentators here never actually read “The Way of Men”? Let alone understand it.

And if you did read it, what is your understanding of it and it’s take away message? At which point in the book did you perceive any covert or overt messages as to the orientation of the author? There were none. Zero, Zip, Nada.

Two trolls employing troll game.

Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.

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Novaseeker, “In the latter case, there was no conception of a “fixed gay sexual orientation”. Doubtless there were likely a small number who had such, as we have today, but the much larger number of men who were having sex with other men and boys were not only having sex with these, but also with their female wives. This was not considered abnormal. The sex was a kind of bonding among males, as well as an aspect of pedagogy in Greece, and undoubtedly was also a form of sexual release and an expression of generational dominance among men. But it… Read more »

sjfrellc
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I’ll take credit for saying that Deida is a fag (figuratively, in his writing). And Jack Donovan is a masculine male.

Novaseeker
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They were bi-sexual. Simple as that.

Not in the way that is constructed today, as a fixed orientation. It was not conceived or experienced as such. Bisexual in praxis, yes, but in orientation? The relevant orientation for the age was basically “top” or “bottom” (i.e., a functional descriptor), not “straight”, “gay”, “bi”, as we have today. This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors — they distort what was the case historically, in terms of how people self-conceived.

Mad Yale Grad
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sifrellc, “I personally never trusted a physician. I am a physician and the only person I ever trusted with my own medical decisions was myself.” Occassionally we’ll come across an online article about parents who were legally harrassed because they did not take their child with cancer into get chemo. We’re they harrassed because they had medical insurance? If they had none would they have been left alone? “They were bi-sexual. Simple as that.” Novaseeker, “Not in the way that is constructed today” I don’t know how its “constructed” today and don’t care. Someone who has sex with both men… Read more »

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If it were a Zombie apocalypse, My first thought would be in procuring a six to twelve month supple of Lantus and Humalog. My second thought would be, mmmmh who should I choose for my team. My gang. I would choose Donovan rather than Deida for the team. I’m sure Donovan would be better at raiding Eli Lily storage facilities for insulin and Deida would try to game my wife. His first move would be to rub belly buttons with her when I wasn’t looking and laugh off her shit testing.

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@Mad Yale Grad
May 14th, 2015 at 10:47 pm

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Nor do I care even if you can explain it in a coherent fashion.

Mad Yale Grad
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“Realistically though, the red pill eschews such idealistic equalism and is founded on the idea of a normal distribution of SMV – an unequal, natural hierarchy. ” For sure. Yet I was test-shitted when I said game/self-improvement will not catapult a 4 to an alpha 9 though it could put him above average as 6. “So do some guys spit out the red pill simply because they just think they cannot succeed, or because they actually lack the ability to do so and know it?” Either they spit it out or they get mad at me, when what they should… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.” I have nothing against teh gayz. I have a few of them in my family and in my friends circle. Good peepz. I just find the whole Jack-in-the-Sphere-Box an interesting twist on things. ” This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors” Dangerous? Inaccurate, maybe. Incomplete, perhaps. But “dangerous”? Its not dangerous. “they distort what was the case historically, in terms of how people self-conceived.” Again, past, present or future, those who have sex with both are bi, whether they have that word in their language… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Oh yeah, and he’s a white nationalist, Donovan that is. AmRen, the whole 9.

eon
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eon
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I really have to question the validity of historical accounts that claim men “self-conceived” as non-homosexual, even though they liked to stick their cocks into other men’s assholes. Such accounts seem, at the very least, to have been created by bi-sexuals not wanting to own what they are, but instead wanting to have it both ways, in more ways than one. This also reminds me of an absurd discussion that I had with a woman who believed that homosexual rape (non-consensual) meant that it was the victim who was not heterosexual. Donovan wrote an article in the early years of… Read more »

sjfrellc
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“Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.” “I have nothing against teh gayz. I have a few of them in my family and in my friends circle. Good peepz. I just find the whole Jack-in-the-Sphere-Box an interesting twist on things.” Heh. You lack perception, I was speaking about you who we (the commentators) are indifferent to. Not your gay family members. You find the Jack Donovan issue interesting because you lack comprehension of his essay. Did you even read the book? No, I didn’t think so. And yet you comment on it. Remind me not to pick you for… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“I really have to question the validity of historical accounts that claim men “self-conceived” as non-homosexual, even though they liked to stick their cocks into other men’s assholes.” Forget history you can experience it now in certain regions of the Middle East and other cultures where the sexes are socially segregated until marriage. “Donovan wrote an article in the early years of The Spearhead, in which he described homosexual horseplay as being common and normal among heterosexual boys and men. ” This too in those cultures. As well as same sex hand holding in public. Though certain Europeans do that… Read more »

Emily L
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This post has been an epiphany of sorts. For one thing, it made me rethink trying to be “helpful” to people who prefer self-destructive behavior. Another is that I’m beginning to think that the mysticism voodoo type practices might really explain unexplainable crazy behavior. Seriously. Either way, rock bottom seems to be a place some people have to go before they wake up, and maybe that’s how you help them.

zdr01dz
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Politically incorrect post disclaimer: I love everybody. I don’t hate anybody. Yes I’ll give you a hug. Yes, you too. But I do enjoy reading about science and biology and a growing body of scientific research doesn’t necessarily support what some people that orbit on one side of the political spectrum feel strongly about. @ Rollo Don’t expend another calorie trying to understand the cause of male homosexuality, asexuality or related phenomenon. Inside the research community the approximate cause is understood but too politically incorrect to pursue. Furthermore the advent of regenerative medicine has ensured that the days of these… Read more »

Emily L
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@Dragonfly: “I know you think she was just going off of the lies she’s been told, and that may have some truth to it, but you need to understand that women are very aware of what they’re doing.”

C’est vrai. There are so many stories I could tell on that statement alone. I’ve been wrong and right in my initial assumptions since learning about trp in the past year+, but day after day I’ve come to appreciate the eyeopeners.

Mad Yale Grad
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Who here said that if you swallow the red pill deep enough, it turns into blue pill? My friend I present to you a man who went from dateless nerd to world famous pick up artist and has come full circle back to pining for monogamy, traditionalism and marriage “Imagine for a second what the country would be like if these four recommendations were implemented. Would it greatly improve the quality of women, clear their mind of anti-male brainwashing, make them normal weighted, and increase their suitability for marriage? Not as much as we’d like, unfortunately. As long as the… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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So far as I am aware Roosh has always said that his being a PUA was a symptom, not the goal.

sjfrellc
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“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”
Abraham Lincoln

Parsing Roosh to suggest he is Blue Pill only proves the above quote applies to you. Better to talk trash and remove all doubt that you are a Yale Grad.

Exhibit #1:

http://www.rooshv.com/what-is-neomasculinity

zdr01dz
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Further reading. Scientists turn off a tiny organ in the nose of female mice (mimicking damage) and the mice turn into Bruce Jenner. Harvard Magazine: When Minnie Turns Mickey When Dulac’s coauthor Kimchi placed these female mutants in a cage with normal male mice, “what she observed was completely astonishing,” Dulac says. “The females started to behave exactly like males.” Suspecting an error, the puzzled researchers checked the mice to ensure that they truly were female. But there was no mistake. Though female, with normal hormone levels and estrus cycles, these mice emitted ultrasonic vocalizations normally sung by males to… Read more »

sjfrellc
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Roosh quote: “Patriarchy Western society is moving away from a patriarchal-based system where men held sole power and determined the rules governing society. In the past, men like Arthur Schopenhauer and HL Mencken understood the true nature of women and the chaos that would ensue if patriarchal rules were dismantled by allowing women to pursue mating without constraints while allowing them to directly compete with men in the labor market. This has the simultaneous effect of making women less able to fulfill their motherly duties while impoverishing men economically and making them less able or likely to fulfill important provider… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@zdr01dz Incredibly interesting article there. I’ve always thought the cause for homosexuality was biological and possibly genetic, but it makes sense that it should have been selected out very rapidly if it were only genes. Auto-immune response or vulnerability to a particular infection would definitely make more sense. While people might sue, I know that my homosexual friends have had a rough time of it. While most of them probably wouldn’t want to be “fixed” after having spent a lifetime coming to terms with the problem, if there were a treatment that could keep kids from having to grow up… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Novaseeker “Of course, that doesn’t apply to women — women are different in that they really are more sexually fluid than men are, period.” Women =xx Men=xy Women are lips from their mouths to their thigths. “Not in the way that is constructed today, as a fixed orientation. It was not conceived or experienced as such. Bisexual in praxis, yes, but in orientation? The relevant orientation for the age was basically “top” or “bottom” (i.e., a functional descriptor), not “straight”, “gay”, “bi”, as we have today. This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Interesting stuff there zdoidz. Transgenderism is another strange phenomenon ” Scientists turn off a tiny organ in the nose of female mice (mimicking damage) and the mice turn into Bruce Jenner. ” The nose. Olfactory. Sense of smell. Our most primitive and most important sense. Pheromones. Makes sense. Although it was the sense of smell that we relied on the most in our early, primitive state, it is the sense that is the least developed in us now. We just don’t need it nor use it like we used to. Maybe that explains our current gender confusion. Novaseeker “Of course,… Read more »

Ripp
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Great post.

I’ve learned the hard way many times: always hard to give unwanted advice. It often does more damage to the friendship/relationship although the intentions are positive.

Jay Will
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@sjfrellc “You find the Jack Donovan issue interesting because you lack comprehension of his essay. Did you even read the book? No, I didn’t think so. And yet you comment on it.” That wasn’t aimed at me but never having read his book makes no difference to me. Donovan might write a long essay which I read and think that makes a lot of sense etc, knowing he is gay would change nothing about whether I think what he says makes sense or not. What matters to me is that if I was listening to another man who I respected… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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4. MGTOW: At first they said it was all about calling it quits on women wholesale. Then they said no its just calling it quits on the marriage industrial complex but we’ll still sleep with women if we want to (or get to, more like it). Now some are saying a MGTOW can even get married as long as the marriage is one “his terms”. So what’s the deal? In online parlance, “MGTOW” basically refers to any man who’s off-script. There are many scripts out there. The tradcon / white nationalist script: bust your ass and remain celibate, then marry… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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1. Someone said historically most men did not reproduce. I thought it was 40%? Either way it sheds perspective on the complaints that “in them thar good ol’ days evr’y man gotz him a decent wife”. “Recent research using DNA analysis answered this question about two years ago. Today’s human population is descended from twice as many women as men. I think this difference is the single most underappreciated fact about gender. To get that kind of difference, you had to have something like, throughout the entire history of the human race, maybe 80% of women but only 40% of… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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One has to distinguish between what is “gay” in 2015, and what the Romans and Greeks were doing, for example.

Indeed. The short story is that male homosexuality or bisexuality was not treated as some sort of personal identity. It was something you did, not something that you were.

stuttie
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“I’ve learned the hard way many times: always hard to give unwanted advice. It often does more damage to the friendship/relationship although the intentions are positive.” I’m working with a guy who probably would win CH’s beta of the year award; In the 4-5 months I’ve known this guy, this is the horror I’m looking at; He’s mid 30’s and married a mid/late 40’s UK woman. He worked his fingers to the bone in a trade to support her and her 2 kids from a previous relationship for 10 years. She and the kids had an annual holiday back to… Read more »

sjfrellc
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@Jay SWill
May 15th, 2015 at 5:40 am

Wow.

Looks like we’ve got a troll trying to attack people on this site, derail meaningful dialog and control the conversation. How’d that happen?

I suggest that this forum doesn’t give them that power by ignoring their unproductive comments and continuing our discussion, or even take a moment to remember George Carlin’s immortal words:“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

I’m in·dif·fer·ent, having no particular interest or sympathy; unconcerned.

Liz
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I think there’s a way to finesse a lot of RP information in a way that makes it more palatable. We know that the stars aren’t gods but burning balls of gas, yet we can still appreciate the beauty of the sky on a clear night without light pollution. Even though the reality is, we’re just bunch of tiny particles sitting on a huge orb traveling through the vastness of space. In a hundred years time, almost none of us, if any of us, or anything we do will matter really. We all pick our illusions. Most people don’t think,… Read more »

eon
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eon
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“Indeed. The short story is that male homosexuality or bisexuality was not treated as some sort of personal identity. It was something you did, not something that you were.” How it was treated is irrelevant, and that story is probably an exaggeration, like the more recent versions that ultimately ended in the admission that homosexuals are actually around 1% of the population, rather than the almost 10% that had previously been claimed, ha ha, oops. How it was treated is irrelevant, because reality is not determined by consensus, unless you are a woman. What you are is a person who… Read more »

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[…] […]

longgone
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@Blaximus “I changed my oil the other day and it opened my eyes to an ugly reality. It made me question the condition of my air filter. It gave me a nagging suspicion about the remaining life of my spark plugs. I no longer trusted my power steering fluid. 32 pounds of air pressure in my tires no longer gave me the feeling of safety.” Now that’s funny right there! But really……… trolls at :8:11 p.m.(5/14), 8:56, 9:02, 9:40,9:46, 10:11, 10:19, 10:30, 10:47, 10:59, 11:08, 11:12, 11:32, 12:00a.m.(5/15),12:24, 2:45, 5:40, 8:03 is way too trollish. @sfrellc, @rugby, et al, please… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@ Sun Wukong Incredibly interesting article there. I’ve always thought the cause for homosexuality was biological and possibly genetic, but it makes sense that it should have been selected out very rapidly if it were only genes. Auto-immune response or vulnerability to a particular infection would definitely make more sense. Yeah from Autism to heart disease this is the direction science is headed. Genes sometimes create susceptibility but infections or other environmental bad guys do the dirty work. Gut Microbes Linked to Rheumatoid Arthritis Traits like Asexuality, hoarding, body identity disorder make no sense at all. But modern science is… Read more »

Liz
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I’m a troll now? Pick your illusion is trolling?

Anyone here ever watch a movie or do we all run around in the theatre pointing and yelling, “THIS ISN’T REAL PEOPLE!!!” Most of us suspend our disbelief willingly. Those who don’t aren’t typically very happy folks. Too much reality can be very depressing.

Liz
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Scott Adams has a premise he calls ‘pick the delusion that works’ and offers the example of his dog, Snickers. When the dog wants to play fetch in the yard, she follows him around and stares into his eyes with freakish intensity, as if using her Jedi doggy powers on him. More often than not, it works and he takes her outside to play ball. He explains that the interesting thing is…he isn’t sure if she understands that it’s his choice whether to go play ball or not. Her “mental control” works so reliably that he’s certain she probably thinks… Read more »

Tilikum
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whole lot of estrogen in this thread and only a few ladies :/

CaveClown
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@Stutie It’s the minority of men that would accept TRP. Acquintance (friend?) of mine is 31. His soon to be wife started bringing guys home and banging them…while he was home. He moved into the spare bedroom and tried to “work things out” Her, “pay the rent for the next 3 months, stay in the spare bedroom, and we’ll talk about it” He was genuinely hopeful she was coming around. As soon as the $4500 rent check cleared, she claimed harassment and had the sheriff remove him. Most men choose their own misery. This dude will never take the red… Read more »

longgone
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longgone
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Liz,
thanks.

Liz
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Liz
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Tilikum: I meant to say poo.

Longgone: pregp

Liz
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Liz
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Oops….prego

rugby11ljh
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http://www.anselm.edu/homepage/dbanach/suicide.htm Red pill and social help (Used to help at a fire station) http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25ndrm_a-good-job-stories-of-the-fdny-2014-full-documentary_shortfilms How do you help when someone says no but they seriously are an fire? Male suicide rates around the world http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide Keep your head up and ask for help. @Caveclown That sounds as if something I could do a few years ago. Very sad indeed. Please punch me if I ever come off that way an this blog. @Liz Your input is great thank you. @JayWill I’ve played with many people who fancy other men. I just don’t let it affect how I play with them.… Read more »

MikePhil
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@Badpainter… A very good point about the fun, but I was compelled to add a comment. I make a correct and healthy balance of fun out to be : 70% my fun / 30% her fun That way, she does get her fun, but it pales in comparison to the level of fun activities that I get to have. Plus, I get an enthusiastic companion who is entering my world and interests, and she gets to learn something about me. If it doesn’t end up in sex, well at least I have a good time. Detaching from the outcome allows… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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” . . .her fun . . .”

How much skin is it off my nose?

MikePhil
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@M Simon “The price of pussy is cheaper than it has ever been. Next. The price of ONE Pussy has never been higher. And perhaps that is what you mean. How to lower the price? Always be ready for NEXT.” Ka-POW! Best comment of the morning! I salute you, sir, for expressing a health RP mentality in as few words as possible. When you stop to realize that 50% of the planet possesses a vagina, that idea reduces their relative worth from chinchilla-lined platinum to a pound of table salt. Once you realize that, you don’t ascribe any special, life… Read more »

Thoroughbred
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Okay… Here’s a shot at a topic change then to get things back on track towards Rollo’s original theme about ingesting the RP and not going back. I think someone posted it here, or maybe it was a tweet from Rollo, CH or Roosh. I can’t remember, but if you really want to see the most exquisite (and in many ways sad and depressing) example of real time, full blown, bat-shit crazy solipsism, check out Janne Robinson — pronounced “Yanay” — a self-described poet, columnist, feminist and bushwalker. I swear it’s like watching a train wreck but it has so… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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@Mikephil
“Detaching from the outcome allows me to fully enjoy the fun event without thinking that much about the inevitable sex. And from where I sit, doing something you enjoy to GET sex is a hell of a lot harder that doing something you enjoy, and getting sex automatically, without working for it.

Communicating your innate enjoyment, nonchalance and a prosperity attitude around women is a cologne like no other.”

REdpill gold just gold
Fuck yeah

longgone
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@rugby,

Is it you that is the dancer? If so, what type of dancing are you into and what type of scene is it? (Average age range of the women, etc.) Whoever posted that a few threads back re-kindled memories of the dancing game working for me many years ago, but the type of dancing they mentioned seemed….”foreign”. Please advise and thanks in advance.

Divided Line
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@ Glenn

I mean this respectfully, but there is a capitalism red pill that you should consider taking, my friend.

sjfrellc
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In case you didn’t see it, Rollo re-tweeted a link today to an article by Amy Alkon
“Science Says ‘Lean In’ Is Filled With Flawed Advice, Likely to Hurt Women”

http://observer.com/2015/05/science-says-lean-in-is-filled-with-flawed-advice-likely-to-hurt-women/

Seraph
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You know, I realized something… When you start scrolling past MYG’s posts, you see TRM get better. It makes you start enjoying the other posters. It makes you understand that in comparison the majority of the people are witty, more interesting and frankly capable of a great deal of introspection. You appreciate them. It makes the bulk of women seem less self-centered and less solipsistic in comparison. It makes you can’t stand how much time you wasted reading MYG. It makes any joke funnier if MYG is the punchline. It makes you question everything, especially why you were reading him/her/it… Read more »

Seraph
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“In case you didn’t see it, Rollo re-tweeted a link today to an article by Amy Alkon”

Countdown to Alkon and Berenson being declared right-wing, fascist, self-hating, neocon, sexist Nazi, rape supporting bitches in…3…2…1

Vulpine
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The dangers of the red pill?

Coming to the realization that you are part of a society that thoroughly and completely sucks, and wanting nothing further to do with it. Consumerism, politics, economy, the Jones’, facebook, television, hollywood, “rights”… all simply “noise” and “spam” to keep you focused on anything and everything besides what actually has weight.

The image translators work FOR the construct:

Dr. Jeremy
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Rollo, Regarding the Amy Alkon article…and why feminists may give advice that could be flawed and hurtful for feminine women. Madison, G., Aasa, U., Wallert, J., & Woodley, M.(2014). Feminist activist women are masculinized in terms of digit-ratio and dominance: A possible explanation for the feminist paradox. Frontiers in Psychology, 5, 1011. Abstract: The feminist movement purports to improve conditions for women, and yet only a minority of women in modern societies self-identify as feminists. This is known as the feminist paradox. It has been suggested that feminists exhibit both physiological and psychological characteristics associated with heightened masculinization, which may… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Jay, “I have no idea how a group of hetero(normal) males listening to a professional MMA fighter in a gym talk about self-improvement etc etc, while everybody is in shorts, could stand there while gay men are alongside them potentially getting hard at the thought of the hot instructor guy. Am I way off there or what?” – You’re not off. Not by a long shot. Such thoughts would be entering many a straight man’s mind in that situation. Like everyone, Donovan makes *some* good points. Very basic and kind of obvious, but good. I’ve even watched his AmRen convention… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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zdoidz, “Yeah from Autism to heart disease this is the direction science is headed. Genes sometimes create susceptibility but infections or other environmental bad guys do the dirty work. Gut Microbes Linked to Rheumatoid Arthritis” – Thousands of years’ old traditional Indo-Chinese health and medicinal systems are built around “gut theory” CaveClown, “Acquintance (friend?) of mine is 31. His soon to be wife started bringing guys home and banging them…while he was home.” – She transitioned the marriage from a closed, monogamous, blue pill one to an open, polyamorous, red pill one. “He moved into the spare bedroom and tried… Read more »

Liz
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Liz
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“That’s actually a Buddhist meditation.”

I’ve clearly missed my calling.
I’m going to make little maltese statues and people can rub their bellies for luck.

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