The Dangers of the Red Pill

redpill_danger

I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:

It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.

But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.

The side effects are really nasty.

Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.

The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.

Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.

When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.

It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.

But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…

It’s easier.

Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pillbut the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.

I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.

Wutang from Roosh’s forum:

I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?

While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.

That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.

I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.

Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.

In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.

The Rule

NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to?  I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.

I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.

I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.

If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.

Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.

Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.

When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.

In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.

As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.

From the Roosh forum again:

The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.

“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”

Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.

I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.

There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.

Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.

So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
Tilikum
Guest
Tilikum
Offline

I may have not been clear. I completely agree w you on this post, but disputing Sun Wukong on MBTI.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@NBTM That aligns with a scarcity mentality. There’s a difference between “scarcity mentality” and actual systemic scarcity. You’re talking about an individual strategy for overcoming a psychological issue men face when trying to approach women. What I’m talking about here is that men as a group face systemic scarcity of viable female mates due to our sexual strategy (one guy many partners) being hamstrung by an overabundance of male competition. It’s why the price of pussy has gone through the roof. Whether you have an abundance mentality or not doesn’t change the reality of actual numeric ratios you’re up against.… Read more »

Glenn
Guest
Glenn
Offline

I can’t believe you guys are still arguing about MBTI. Did any of you bother to read the many academic cites in the article I linked? The actual academic field of psychology believes MBTI to a useless joke and the province of high priced, snake oil selling corporate consultants. It’s been studied extensively by academics and has been laughed out of serious psychological discussion since 1994. All of you claiming some personal success with it are engaging in a logical flaw in your reasoning called “casuistry”. If you don’t know what it means, look it up. If you don’t like… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

To put it another way: if I walk in to a bar and there’s not a single attractive woman there, I can’t magically make one appear by having an abundance mentality. Scarcity isn’t just a mentality. Sometimes it’s simply a fact.

A Definite Beta Guy
Guest
A Definite Beta Guy
Offline

MBTI rests on faulty foundations. Topic came up on another blog I visit a few weeks back: MBTI is crap, even if it is fun crap, and I say this as a person proudly self-identifying as INTJ. MBTI is based on the concept of cognitive stacks. Sensing vs. Intuition, Thinking vs. Feeling. Then based on an Extraversion vs. Introversion preference, and then a Judging vs. Perceiving preference (which is REALLY funky, because that’s based on what you ‘show the world.’) Real-life humans do not break into these stacks. At all. As Mike C pointed out, there is no Introversion vs.… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

“Now what? Where is the PURPOSE?
On my death bed…what will have MATTERED?
Indeed…
http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/15/end-of-life-issues/

Thanks Rollo.

I can really relate to your story in that post.

Watching my grandfather die. Days left. Blue piller to the end. My grandmother has controlled him for 52 years.

He’s allowed her to dictate every detail of the end of his life. Right down to the color of his urn.

“This is a tragedy because it disqualifies those fantastic life experiences (even stressful ones) because that Beta want of a mutually shared love precedes the capacity to recognize those great peaks.”

Even his death.

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

Glenn, Stop being a whiny little bitch about Meyers-Briggs. We get it. It doesn’t make sense and doesn’t work in the corporate setting in order to jam your ass into the hole that it doesn’t belong to or that you don’t want it to be put in . I get that. I get corporate frustration over having to take the test 6 times (especially when it is bullshit and you are the supplicant). Yeah, I don’t like to have to take my certification boards every ten years for a $1000 and spend 6 weeks studying for them and spend $2,500… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@Dr Jeremy “No, in my experience, many men just sit around aimless until someone else imposes some external meaning on them. Even with a “hands off” and helpful counselor, they will simply wait and bounce from an over-controlling mother, to a nagging wife, or to a cultish church, or a driving boss. Sometimes, the best you can do is help them to pick something to follow that won’t exploit them “as much”. Me as a kid growing up being yelled at to be a man. It’s good your hear I just realized something maybe you could help me out with.… Read more »

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

A Definite Beta Guy May 13th, 2015 at 9:18 pm “Real-life humans do not break into these stacks. At all. As Mike C pointed out, there is no Introversion vs. Extraversion. I mean, it exists, but it isn’t bi-modal, with a large group of human introverts and a large group of human extraverts. There are a lot of people in the middle.” This is what I said earlier. MBTI is totally invalidated because I vs. E in the general populations exists as a bell curve. Bell curves invalidates MBTI. But it is not invalidated when some one is two standard… Read more »

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

Hillary an INTJ? I guess she lacks both T and J given her policy positions.

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

Hillary fakes it. She is a judgmental bitch that cares nothing about her constituents and is going to have to appear to care for those that want to suck on the governments tits. She’s giving you two fat thighs with a small breast and a left wing. (She doesn’t care for the the people that will vote for her. MBTI tells me that).

Sorry. The E.H. Taylor small batch is sinking in after a day of flail mowing (JD 390 model) winter annual weeds in the food plots at the deer hunting farm with the 65 HP John Deere tractor.

Tilikum
Guest
Tilikum
Offline

@Greg

Even though you can’t see it because Rollo’s comments don’t show nested, I was replying to him inside of WordPress.

Protip: In my “business”, I yearn to make someone as frustrated as you seem to be here. IQ drops a full 10 points in the middle of a hijack and then I REALLY own your ass. Push you allllll around the table, get what I want. Cause your frustration is making you literally dumber.

Badpainter
Guest
Badpainter
Offline

@ sjfrellc

Don’t be sorry. I’m three doubles of 18yr Glen Livet into the evening.

Earlier this evening a good friend told me about his “moment of clarity.” I got to do a little Red Pill teaching. Mostly asking questions to steer him to giving voice to the the reality he sees now.

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

Socratic method red pill advice. Not a bad way to teach.

Bluepillprofessor
Guest

@Cave Clown: The answers you seek have been asked for thousands of years. Read the Book of Ecclesiastes. It is the only thing I have ever read and almost the only thing ever written that answers those questions even a little bit. @Glenn: Summing up the entire manosphere and the solution to the problems identified by the Red Pill: “Taking political power away from women is the only cure.” @Insanity: “what men really need to is see their higher selves reflected in a woman’s eyes.” Oh..My…God. May He forgive you for your blindness but not your intentional malevolence. “The wife… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@Bluepillprofessor

If you’re gonna aim for the eyes, at least have the courtesy to let her wear goggles.

Forge the Sky
Guest
Forge the Sky
Offline

A bit late to that party, but I gotta say this thread made me laugh more than any other on the RM so far once ‘insanity’ got involved. @kfg especially was excellent. insanity: “I’m not trolling for clicks. I’m attempting to talk to fools. How masochistic of me. Enjoy yourself Tomassi. If you ever want to talk, I’m not quite the idiot you fancy me to be.” You know that indignant chin dip and thrust women do when they’re trying to show you they’re unfazed by something you said, and also more mature than you? Yeah, this was that. Loading...

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

“On the MBTI I’m an “Ascended Bastard”. LOL. You mean Ascended Master?

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

Him: Can I get your number?
Her: You’re not my type.
Him: Said to the man you just had sex with.
Her: If you were, I wouldn’t have.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Sun Wukong May 13th, 2015 at 2:12 pm Homeopathy, chakras, crystals, all that new agey bullshit. Like if you got them alone and told them “Alright you can stop showing for the ladies and level with me: do you actually buy in to that bullshit?” Immediately would become clear that it wasn’t an act. What’s the dynamic that accounts for that being so common? My theory is that their senses work differently than “ordinary person” senses. Note my discussion of sense of smell up thread. The universe really is a different place for an Alpha. Of all the people who… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@Badpainter
“Earlier this evening a good friend told me about his “moment of clarity.” I got to do a little Red Pill teaching. Mostly asking questions to steer him to giving voice to the the reality he sees now.”
Makes me think of how I am in the denial stage of the redpill.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Mad Yale Grad May 14th, 2015 at 12:33 am “Ascended bastard” is correct. That idea was first introduced to me by Art Kleps. His theory was (if I understand it correctly) that any teacher who is “attractive” will attract followers. (Betas at that) He wanted to attract independent operators. Hence his bastardly ways. And mine. If you can get past the outer crust perhaps we can do something together. Funny enough my basement boy son hates my guts and my Alpha son (currently living in Russia) respects me. As does my other Alpha son. My FI daughter is ambivalent. My… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@M Simon
“Funny enough my basement boy son hates my guts and my Alpha son (currently living in Russia) respects me. As does my other Alpha son.

My FI daughter is ambivalent.

My wife? “Why won’t you be nice?” – “Because you wouldn’t want me if I was.”

Way to be the Man seems as if other Alphas know Alphas…
What a remarkable world I live in.
“Why do my eyes hurt? Because you’ve never used them…
Thank you Rollo

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

rugby11ljh
May 13th, 2015 at 9:50 pm

I just realized something maybe you could help me out with.

Real angry with my dad.
What’s a good way to get over that?

Cut off all contact until the anger goes away. – Worked for me. Then I cut him off some more until he corrected his errors. Not perfectly. But good enough.

There is no guarantee of outcome. Except for you. If you have enough time.

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

Jeremy, ” This is usually the married game, religious HOH”

What’s HOH?

I agree with zdoidz that in the US, poor generally means unattractive. Particularly trailer park, hillbilly and redneck areas, the people look and act IGNANT as hell.

“Hoods” at least have their occasional black and latina hotties, though obesity is off the charts with black peeps.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“Note my discussion of sense of smell up thread.”

One of my expressed criticisms of trying to study mating preferences by response rates to dating site profiles has been that all head shots smell the same.

“The universe really is a different place for an Alpha.”

Is it unusual for smell to be an important factor for men? I’ve always considered that the real reason for a woman’s perfume is to confuse the sense of smell, making it harder for a man to make a true assessment of her.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Thinking and Feeling aren’t polar opposites.

I make my living from rationality. Extreme rationality. Rationality at best represents 10% of the universe.

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

Athol Kay’s MMSL is even worse than Deida’s WoftheSM. Athol’s theory is that a man should act the clown, jump through hoops, and generally entertain his wife – forever. I suppose if your wife was an HB10 20 years younger than you then maybe. And that’s a strong maybe. But have you seen his wife?! And have you seen him?! Athol was a fanatical Christian virgin when he married and although he’s regurgitated the cult Kool Aid, he’s still only ever “known” (yes in the Biblical sense) his wife. She ain’t going anywhere, and even if she does, so what?… Read more »

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Sun Wukong
May 13th, 2015 at 8:31 pm

The price of pussy is cheaper than it has ever been. Next. The price of ONE Pussy has never been higher. And perhaps that is what you mean.

How to lower the price? Always be ready for NEXT.

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@M Simon 10% makes me think where in a bad spot. “Except for you. If you have enough time.” I have until I die. I love the man but he has made my life hard to mange as a beta blue self righteous white knight I really am angry. I may be in the stage of denial still. Quick note when I sign on the conference please aske me questions about this because I feel my self assessments suck an a rational level. @kfg What about men wearing other people’s scent? Via cologne ? Makes me think of underwear and… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

M Simon, you mention a beta son, 2 alpha sons, and an FI daughter.

What sexual and relationship advice would you give your daughter? Or what advice have you given her?

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Sun Wukong May 13th, 2015 at 8:37 pm To put it another way: if I walk in to a bar and there’s not a single attractive woman there, I can’t magically make one appear by having an abundance mentality. Scarcity isn’t just a mentality. Sometimes it’s simply a fact. NEXTing is not just for women. It is for bars. Scenes. Groups. What ever. I had a friend for about 10 years. I was always on him – “why don’t we do a project together.” Nothing. He never wanted to do anything but bitch. I now have some new friends. Tom… Read more »

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Mad Yale Grad May 14th, 2015 at 1:41 am M Simon, you mention a beta son, 2 alpha sons, and an FI daughter. What sexual and relationship advice would you give your daughter? Or what advice have you given her? You won’t be happy until you find a man you want to be dominated by. I got the usual SJW response. All FI “equality”. None the less – she is not happy despite being a 9.5 going on 10. She is not riding the carousel. But with the choices available to her – she isn’t happy. And what I have… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

@rugby11ljh: “What about men wearing other people’s scent? Via cologne ?”

To be perfectly honest, I haven’t thought about it much, and when I have, haven’t quite understood the point. It’s obviously promoted to be something that makes men smell alpha, but it doesn’t do anything of the kind.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

rugby11ljh
May 14th, 2015 at 1:41 am

@M Simon
10% makes me think where in a bad spot.

A very good spot. It used to be less than 1%. And the other 90%? Cultivate silence and intuition.

There is way more information than can be articulated. Thus silence to receive it and intuition to respond. Silence can be learned. Intuition must be trained – another learning.

“Programming and Meta-Programming The Human Bio-Computer” by Lily is helpful. Although his methods are currently in disrepute.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

kfg
May 14th, 2015 at 2:03 am

Men smell Alpha the same way deer do. Look up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scent_gland

In men – testosterone is exuded in the crotch. Also armpits. When mine is running strong a shower ever 1/2 hour isn’t enough.

When I was growing up all the men smelled like that. I like it. But people tell me these days I don’t shower enough. As if I could.

But there have been studies. It attracts ovulating women.

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

And not just ordinary attraction. It makes them crazy.

The fm has seen it often enough. She is still amused when a woman gets nuts in my presence. In fact my making the fm “crazy” was how we got together. Still crazy after all these years. But without game “crazy” is temporary.

I have work to do. It has been extremely fun. I’ll be back on my next break.

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

At the moment I imagine I smell strongest of coffee, vanilla cavendish, bacon, sweat and machine lubricants. It’s been a long day.

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

M. Simon to daughter, “You won’t be happy until you find a man you want to be dominated by. ” Domination. The BDSM world is polyamorous. The vanilla world is becoming more and more so. One of my current girlfriends is 24. I asked her how she become interested in non-monogamy. She said “straight” women make out in college now. Largely in threesomes to impress a guy but that was her introduction to non-monogamy. Prior to that she dated the same guy all the way through high school. 50 years ago she would have married him. Today they parted ways… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Guest
Mad Yale Grad
Offline

M. Simon, “None the less – she is not happy despite being a 9.5 going on 10. She is not riding the carousel.”

How would you know?

hoellenhund2
Guest

This is just a half-truth. Women also had natural attrition. Those that were physically weak perished due to childbirth complications and illness, those that couldn’t control their hypergamous urges were killed by the vengeful men they tried to dupe, those that refused to submit to their male rulers were generally killed and those that failed to secure male provisioning for whatever reason usually died due to starvation and lack of care. This had a genetic culling effect that doesn’t exist in the modern world either. It wasn’t as big of an effect as the one on men, but it was… Read more »

hoellenhund2
Guest

Oh well, I fucked it up. I was responding to this:

The problem is that there are simply too many men. The operative sex ratio is too high — historically, most men didn’t breed, and had no expectation of breeding. They were not suited to breed, and were killed off either in intra-tribal violence, extra-tribal violence, wars, sickness in childhood and the like. This reduced the operative sex ratio among men in a way that did not impact women, because of course women were not expendable in the same way.

SFC Ton
Guest
SFC Ton
Offline

3 doubles? Sounds like breakfast.

Thoroughbred
Guest
Thoroughbred
Offline

@SFC – “Sun, the way I conveyed info to my son matches my style of doing things. More on the spot during the natural flow of life vs having a sit down. I cannot say one is superior to the other. We are who we are and should live, learn, teach etc according to what suits are talents and inclinations. I hated doing sit downs with my troops too” Not crazy about sit downs myself. Which is why I want to basically give him the info without a big “talk” and hope he takes to it on his own. As… Read more »

Jetxo
Guest
Jetxo
Offline

@M Simon — May 12th, 2015 at 9:20 pm

But she is profoundly unhappy because she does not get her female side – at all. Feminism has done a profound disservice to women. Maybe 10% of women want to be men. Feminism has convinced them that they ALL do. There will be a reaction.

Thanks M, favorite comment so far in this thread, it lingered in my head for some time yesterday.

Tom Ligon from Paint your wagon ?? funny, his role in that film is a from beta to alpha man story wrapped in a strange musical/comedy/cowboy film that I quite enjoy.

Jetxo
Guest
Jetxo
Offline

@Seraph Glad I could help in some way. On my case the red pill came integrated on a whole package of other questions I needed to get an answer some way or another. So I can relate to what you are going through. There is a certain feeling of alienation from awakening, since we feel different from the majority of other people around you. In my case meditation help me a lot. This is a good starting video to get introduced to the practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNRkSWIAi8 You can skip to half of the video since the guy repeat the same thing… Read more »

longgone
Guest
longgone
Offline

@M Simon “Cut off all contact until the anger goes away. – Worked for me. Then I cut him off some more until he corrected his errors.” Passive/aggressive bitch tactic and bad advice. Men lead by example and in person especially to their BP dads. Rugby seems to have been making progress understanding his dad and maybe showing the way….and you come off with this silliness. This and your cannabis lunacy a while back are why I’m returning to scrolling past you. Aged stoner posing as a leader…indeed. Interesting duet you and MYG have going just now. Funny how she… Read more »

Glenn
Guest
Glenn
Offline

@SiffrellC – Simmer down, princess. I get it, you are over-invested in MBTI too. But given the known science and criticism on the subject, that simply makes you anti-intellectual. Pointing out EVIDENCE of your misguided beliefs doesn’t make me a “whiny bitch”, it makes you emotional and hysterical. And to compare taking an MBTI test to your boards is an absurd construction that only reveals your own emotional approach to this issue. What you don’t even know is that I never minded taking these tests and participating in the workshops in the ’80s and 90’s and early 2000’s – I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@M Simon NEXTing is not just for women. It is for bars. Scenes. Groups. What ever. Heh, this kinda missed my point. The price of pussy is cheaper than it has ever been. Next. The price of ONE Pussy has never been higher. And perhaps that is what you mean. In the context of a man committing or being a Beta (which I suppose is just another way of saying committing), yes. For Alphas it’s cheaper than ever, but I’ve yet to really experience that with women I really find attractive. For Betas (or anyone wanting to commit) the price… Read more »

ExpatRP
Guest
ExpatRP
Offline

Before reading this post, I was speaking with a RP friend of mine in the office about this topic, about how we believe that men have to “find” it instead of being enlightened and the there are men that are “prepared” to be exposed to these reallities. We were also talking about one idea that seems to be true and is related with this quote from Morpheo: “For me personally, it was a fairly easy transition. OK, that other set of Rules doesn’t work, here is the new set of rules.” I completely agree. I’m a scientist and I see… Read more »

Driver
Guest
Driver
Offline

@ Dr. Jeremy “No, in my experience, many men just sit around aimless until someone else imposes some external meaning on them. Even with a “hands off” and helpful counselor, they will simply wait and bounce from an over-controlling mother, to a nagging wife, or to a cultish church, or a driving boss. Sometimes, the best you can do is help them to pick something to follow that won’t exploit them “as much”. For me, that is heartbreaking…and why I don’t do traditional counseling anymore.” I believe when a man reaches that point (a travesty in his life – like… Read more »

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Mad Yale Grad May 14th, 2015 at 3:00 am M. Simon, “None the less – she is not happy despite being a 9.5 going on 10. She is not riding the carousel.” How would you know? I have my sources. That is not to say she hasn’t taken on a boyfriend or two. But she is not into masses. As far as I’m able to discern. What does she have against men? None of them are “good enough”. She wants to be an actress. Everyone (female friends, my mom, my mom’s best friend, the fm etc.) has told her that… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” . . . there wasn’t any readily available information before the manosphere came along . . .” Before the manosphere came along women read Kipling to their man children, openly and without shame. The very first chapter of The Story of Dr. Doolittle is a mini red pill essay in itself. Conan Doyle’s The Greek Interpreter is also excellent. There was also The Big Sleep, The Quiet Man and Double Indemnity. “How could I have known that murder could sometimes smell like honeysuckle?” You could read a book or go to the movies, that’s how. Red Pill information was… Read more »

M Simon
Guest
M Simon
Offline

Sun Wukong
May 14th, 2015 at 9:37 am

You can only get a good “deal” with game. My dad was a player before he got married. Mom knew it. He continued to game mom until he died. Their relationship lasted about 50 years. Mom still has good things to say about him.

Glenn
Guest
Glenn
Offline

@Jetxco – “There is a certain feeling of alienation from awakening, since we feel different from the majority of other people around you.” Great point. And I like the video, although I’ve long cultivated a mediation practice but as you know one way to ground oneself in meditation is to always be a beginner, so I made myself listen to the video anyway. Even if some of what he says is silly like “we only use 5% of our capacity”, much of it is very well said and accessible. Walking meditation is great. Many westerners believe that meditation is about… Read more »

realgaryseven
Guest

Reblogged this on ReactionaryThought.

Glenn
Guest
Glenn
Offline

@Dr. Jeremy – First, i love your contributions here. I don’t respond because I rarely think I can add to it in any way and see you as a teacher here. So, thanks. This malleable state you find men is also learned, to my way of thinking. I’m very close to my young nephew who is now 6 and it’ s all too clear to me how conformance to authority, particularly female authority is being beaten into him by the women around him, including and especially from my sister. And his dad reinforces it – so strange, he’s so traditionally… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

@ rugby11ljh To start, I can gab about general social dynamics and persuasion all I want, but I’m not currently licensed to provide professional advice or counseling on anything that might be considered mental health type concerns. I’m not exactly sure where “anger with dad” falls in that professional license domain. So, if you feel you would like a professional opinion on that topic, I encourage you to see a local counselor in your area. With that disclaimer out of the way…I can share my own personal experience as a commentator. In my personal experience, I have found that trying… Read more »

Liz
Guest
Liz
Offline

Kfg: “Before the manosphere came along women read Kipling to their man children, openly and without shame. The very first chapter of The Story of Dr. Doolittle is a mini red pill essay in itself. Conan Doyle’s The Greek Interpreter is also excellent. There was also The Big Sleep, The Quiet Man and Double Indemnity. “How could I have known that murder could sometimes smell like honeysuckle?” You could read a book or go to the movies, that’s how. Red Pill information was everywhere. There are still central depositories of it. Read Huckleberry Finn, only be sure to find an… Read more »

Dragonfly
Guest
Dragonfly
Offline

Love this post… it’s true for women, too, or anyone who wants to have a good life in regular (politically correct) society. One has to be a little diplomatic with these truths, you can’t just espouse them like some psycho, because that is exactly how you’ll be viewed… like a “pyschopath.” You can’t just announce that fatness ruins girl’s prettiness, unless you want all the overweight women (and quite a few white knight mangina men) to hate you. You have to be able to survive in the workplace, not offend too many people. And it gets even more personal when… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

@ Glenn Thanks. I continue to learn a lot from reading your commentary and the thoughts of others on here too. My two cents… I think that only masculine men can truly raise boys to be masculine men. Within that framework, there is still some conformance to (male) authority in the hierarchy…but the social dynamics of that hierarchy are more fluid and reward merit. In other words, young boys still initially learn that they have to follow and obey from men, but that is to simply learn the skills to prove themselves…and thereby earn more freedom and authority. So, it… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” . . . you can’t just espouse them like some psycho, because that is exactly how you’ll be viewed… like a “pyschopath.” ”

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a paranoid schizophrenic.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

@dragonfly

Marrying a man she has no visceral attraction for? My wife did the same thing.

That’s the hardest truth I have had to accept.

The night I realized this…I literally threw up. Been killing the beta ever since.

Why on God’s green earth would she marry someone that she didn’t lust after? She was only 20 at the time!

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@M Simon Keep in mind that part of the price I refer to for Betas is also the price of late life conversion that guys like me pay. The absolute destruction of everything that defined your reality and who you were is a tremendous cost, even if those things were ultimately not good for you. It’s still a huge psychological toll to stand up and become the Alpha you had beaten out of you by society. OK, if I can become a truly Alpha guy, the price once there is low. But the price that has to be paid to… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

Rollo I wonder how many men who comment here regularly would’ve fit your description of an average Beta man just 5 years ago. I wonder that too. I have interacted with numerous men in the last 10 years or so on this topic myself and pondered that idea. Some have taken the red pill and seemed to make incredible transformations. Others have spit it back up and remained in a rut. So, I began to think about what differentiates the guys who succeed from the ones who do not… Personally, the guys I’ve seen succeed had a lot of raw… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

Rhetorical question btw.

She told me in a moment of clarity that she didn’t care who she was with as long as she is not alone.

Insecurity.

Marriage = acceptance.

I suppose I’m guilty of the same.

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

@Glenn
May 14th, 2015 at 9:37 am

Allow me to give a simple lesson to commentators (in this case me) on TRM who annoy other commentators.

I’m walking away from my keyboard. And shutting up.

Jay Will
Guest
Jay Will
Offline

Both “alpha” men (basically guys who shag a lot of women) and the women they have sex with are heavily invested in keeping things “discrete”. A lot of this is to do with preventing other males getting jealous about it all. Hence men who shag a lot rarely brag about it. When I sense I’m around men/women who are getting it on, high levels of fertility/testosterone it hurts. Also giving the game away usually results in you having ball-breaking insults, particularly off women, so its always better to just shut up. Or make fun of yourself as I do, self-deprecate… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

” Personally, I operate under that premise, in order to give every man a chance.”

But in so doing, miss some of the men who could most benefit from your attention.

You only have so much time and energy to give. You would do a better service to all men if you could save only two men, who could each save two men.

Dr. Jeremy
Guest
Dr. Jeremy
Offline

@ KFG

Good point…thanks.

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

She told u to “stay nice”?

Women are so predictable. My wife tells me quite a bit, “you used to be such a nice guy!”

Yes, yes I was.

Heaven forbid her beta provider finds his alpha. Lol

eon
Guest
eon
Offline

“My friend is super religious and he took offense at Red Pill. I was shocked by his response.” “In RooshV comments … ‘I’m convinced there are two kinds of ‘red pill’, and the valley between them is basically the grand canyon.” . One way to understand this is through the distinction between believer and non-believer, which is fundamental. For example, consider “atheist”. . One who believes in the non-existence of God, a position for which there is no specific evidence, is a believer. A believer makes such choices based on feelings and mental resonances, but can be turned from one… Read more »

greginaurora
Guest

@eon: I made the jump to the Red Pill easily, and I think you’ve described the reason why. All attempts to facilitate the Blue Pill resulted in failure. Mild attempts, toying with the Red Pill, had instant results that described a better theory. If the Red Pill produces success, and the Blue Pill produces failure, then the Red Pill is right and the Blue Pill is wrong. Simple as that.

New Yorker
Guest
New Yorker
Offline

Example of hamster thinking:

I am divorced, dating a girl for a year. Run into my ex-wife’s former friend on the street. She asks about my girlfriend…my response “she has not been fired yet”….she responds with an excited gleam in her eye….asks me if I want to meet her friend who is a single mom. My response “no kids…that’s somebody else’s problem”….her eyes get even more excited….tells me “but you have a kid”….my response..”that doesn’t count”…this girl is a hard-core feminist and she couldn’t hide her excitement at open “misogyny”. Live, learn and enjoy.

Glenn
Guest
Glenn
Offline

@Sifrellc – Qhat on earth do you think you are demonstrating to other commentators? How to act like a woman? You haven’t addressed any of the many substantive criticisms of MBTI contained in the article I linked to. You merely threw a tantrum and called me a whiny bitch. And I don’t find you annoying, I find you anti-intellectual and ignorant on this topic. The two of you are acting like 9 year old girls. Boo hoo that you don’t like having a treasured concept you have invested way too much energy in shown to be nonsense. Get used to… Read more »

Lion
Guest
Lion
Offline

I admire Roosh’s brutal honesty with both himself and with others. In a world where people tell you what they think you want to hear, I value the brutally honest ones even though what they say might be hurtful. I don’t agree with Roosh on everything, but I read and follow along because I really am interested in his thoughts – mostly because I know he’s being honest about those thoughts, and I can count on that honesty. In a sense, he’s growing and changing alongside of us. He’s publicly acknowledged that he’s changing now that he’s in his mid… Read more »

Lion
Guest
Lion
Offline

“There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age.” I’m going on a wild ass guess here that you mean age 79 and a half. Otherwise you’d be guilty as hell.

Thoroughbred
Guest
Thoroughbred
Offline

@Cave Clown… You’re not alone. Hardest truth I’ve ever had to accept as well. Devastating actually. Particularly since the woman I dumped to marry the wife with no visceral attraction WAS viscerally attracted to me. “Women are so predictable. My wife tells me quite a bit, ‘you used to be such a nice guy!'” Man, sounds like we are definitely on the same trajectory! Used to get that one quite a bit as well, but now I get “God, you’re such an asshole!” (which I count as major progress.) I would definitely count the “you used to be such a… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

@Thoroughbred I get the asshole thing a lot too! When the blue pill beta first finds out that the woman who vowed her undying love to him in front of his family, friends, and his God, was in his mind lying…it can be a little bit hard to handle. “Take” the red pill? More like “hit by a truck” Anyway, I’m intricately familiar with athols work. Wish him the best, but ultimately he went down a road I won’t follow. If the sex is destined to be only as good as it was at the beginning, then I will not… Read more »

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

@Rollo

I’ve read it like three times today! Lol

I’m leaving the bitter part of the red pill behind. Been there far too long. I’ve been told my whole life that I need to relax and should be content with what I have.

To stop constantly moving.

But I’ve never had that contentment they wanted me to have. I realize now why that is.

Great post, thanks for taking the time to link it.

New Yorker
Guest
New Yorker
Offline

@ Rollo Understanding the Red Pill is what allows a man to escape the beta doldrums. Even natural Alphas go beta for periods of time, but intellectually understanding one beta relapse helps to end it. My dad is a natural alpha who went beta for relatively long periods. Had he known about the red pill, he could have ended the relapses earlier. As a result, I grew up much more beta than my natural tendencies, which only emerged when I left the house. I am a natural alpha in terms of seeing the world and wanting to dominate but I… Read more »

kfg
Guest
kfg
Offline

“I am in particular a fan of Rollo given his detached approach to things . . .”

Rollo is straightforward, concise and comprehensive. Although I obviously read comments and have been known to post a few, I also know that if a really important idea is raised in them, Rollo will feature it in an article, so I won’t miss much when I’ve been giving the comments a miss.

Here there be only dragons. No filler, no bullshit, no clickbait and no “sponsored articles.”

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

“I get the asshole thing a lot too!”

Only doormats or castrated dogs with their teeth filed flat and their tails incessantly tucked up their butts never get called assholes. If you are making your own choices, it is inevitable you will sometimes be called an “asshole”.

Lone Survivor
Guest
Lone Survivor
Offline

People, you have to check this out:

returnofkings.com/63036/why-you-should-not-go-see-mad-max-feminist-road

Awesome analysis, it created a shitstorm… you won’t believe the amount of white knights defending Crap Max and the feminazi message it delivers.

LiveFearless
Guest

Reblogged this on Livefearless and commented: “In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power. As I… Read more »

rugby11ljh
Guest
rugby11ljh
Offline

@Thoroughbred “Even then they were quickly dying out… Now they are almost nonexistent.” Hope something stays… “She said she really valued the fact that I do what I want to do, that I don’t ask her permission, that I’m completely independent.” That’s what I am building in my body and mind. @Longgone Well I suppose I will confront again usually didn’t end well but maybe that IS being Alpha just doing things that need to be done. @Driver I agree @kfg “Read Huckleberry Finn, only be sure to find an old copy that hasn’t been “edited” by an SJW.” Oh… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

La de daa de daa de daaaa da…. Go tell it on the mountain ! Over the hills and everywhere Go tell it on the mountain That the red pill is here The women all were hypergaming Over their betas at night When a cure for men was prescribed That gives them new insight Go tell it on the mountain ! Over the hills and everywhere Go tell it on the mountain That the red pill is here They found a little red pill Where all the truth is revealed ‘Cause as the pill is taken Each man is redeemed… Read more »

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

@Glenn May 14th, 2015 at 2:02 pm “@Sifrellc – You haven’t addressed any of the many substantive criticisms of MBTI contained in the article I linked to. You merely threw a tantrum and called me a whiny bitch. And I don’t find you annoying, I find you anti-intellectual and ignorant on this topic.” Glen, I would rather be thought of annoying you. You calling me anti-intellectual is actually worse that kicking me hard in the balls. And you know that. You didn’t read or understand (that could be my fault) anywhere of what my point was, the fact that I… Read more »

Seraph
Guest
Seraph
Offline

“Realistically though, the red pill eschews such idealistic equalism and is founded on the idea of a normal distribution of SMV – an unequal, natural hierarchy. So…do some guys spit out the red pill simply because they just think they cannot succeed, or because they actually lack the ability to do so and know it?” You bring up an excellent point that touches on another exchange here regarding sex ratios. Bottom line, even with normal SMV distribution, there would be, by definition, a ever smaller number of Alpha Men and very desirable women the further up the SMV you went.… Read more »

sjfrellc
Guest
sjfrellc
Offline

@ Sun Wukong

Regarding your Teamspeak3 round table discussions, did you catch that link I posted before regarding what Jonathan Frost at Freedom Twenty-Five does weekly with his gang of 7 men?

http://www.freedomtwentyfive.com/2012/11/getting-the-gang-back-together/

CaveClown
Guest
CaveClown
Offline

@Rugby Denial is a tough one. But it’s just an ego self defense, nothing more. The good thing about the truth, is it doesn’t require me or anyone else to believe it. It’s still the truth regardless. I very rarely slip into nice guy habits. Except for my family, almost everyone I know would be shocked to know that’s how I was. When I decided to KILL the beta, man I wanted that sucker dead. I even went so far as to destroy most old photographs of myself during that time period. He’s a tough son of a bitch though.… Read more »

Seraph
Guest
Seraph
Offline

Further thought…

What I am saying is the Red Pill, just like in The Matrix, offers one freedom.

Freedom to choose not out of ignorance, but with full knowledge. Choose MRA, MGTOW, PUA or go gay….Whatevah!

The point is you now have options. Blue Pill men can and still be sold on it for that reason alone, can’t they?

I don’t know…it just seems that while keeping the RP down is painful, it is less so than not doing so in the long run.

Not Born This Morning
Guest
Not Born This Morning
Offline

Red Shift –

When an object moves away from us, its light waves are stretched into lower frequencies or longer wavelengths, and we say that the light is redshifted. In the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, blue light has the highest frequency and red light has the lowest.

Red Pill is not Red Shift.

Red Pill awareness does not require MGTOW. MGTOW is men moving away from women – Red Shift. MTGOW is a gag reaction to the Red Pill, not embracement of it.

Sun Wukong
Guest
Sun Wukong
Offline

@sjfrellc Yeah I think I remember seeing that a while back even before you posted the link. It’s what got me thinking “Hmmm, how could I help guys like myself who haven’t found a local group for this stuff yet?” The idea kinda worked from there. Doing things over the internet means making things more anonymous allows us to open it up to others so that they can see how a group like that can work in their own lives. Obviously we’re also restricted by not being able to get together and actually go do shit (hence the reason I… Read more »

%d bloggers like this: