The Dangers of the Red Pill

redpill_danger

I came across an interesting thread on Roosh’s forum recently that linked very well with some experiences I’ve been having over the course of the last few weeks. Eldelwiess was the OP here and he just hints upon a greater whole of the danger of the Red Pill:

It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to.

But it’s a difficult pill to swallow.

The side effects are really nasty.

Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too.

The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see.

Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery.

When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality.
It makes you stop enjoying many things in life.
It makes you find the majority of the people boring, uninteresting and frankly stupid. You pity them.
It makes the bulk of the women unworthy of your time.
It makes you can’t stand your colleagues.
It makes many jokes not funny anymore.
It makes you question everything.
It makes everyone untrustworthy, even your physicians.

It makes you…a better person ! And I love it.

But I understand why the majority of the people ignore the red pill and decide to remain in blue pill slavery and mediocrity. It’s easier. And you get to still enjoy life as you knew it, keep the friends who do the exact same thing, sympathize with your colleagues who complain about long working hours, date the same women who feel entitled to everything, watch the same TV programs which numb your mind and make you lose IQ points, vote for the same politicians who control the strings that make you move…

It’s easier.

Eldelwiess is just coming around to acknowledging The Bitter Taste of the Red Pillbut the inherent danger he’s hinting at here goes a little further beyond the perception of a Red Pill aware man being “bitter”, and into the social dynamics that center on creating and interpreting him being such. The danger in this context is not just a bitter perception, but rather one of personal, professional and familial ostracization for expressing Red Pill truths.

I touched on these liabilities in The Secret of the Red Pill, but this was more from the perspective of women having their Game explained to them and what Red Pill aware men might expect for having confronted them with it. The impact of that may only be the perception of you being a presumptuous asshole by an individual woman, however, there are broader implications and consequences for “living” the Red Pill in a larger social sense.

Wutang from Roosh’s forum:

I actually had a falling out with a group of casual acquaintances when my association with RP was revealed among the group so there is a “danger” with it affecting your social bonds. I put danger in quotes because you really should see it as more of an act of filtering out who you associate with rather then any sort of great harm; the exception being if these are people who you work with or who can put a wrench in you advancing in your goals. If the only real harm is losing a few acquaintances or even friends then you should ask yourself if these are really the sort of people you want to associate with. Do you want to surround yourself with people that are apparently so mentally weak that mere words and difference of opinion can drive them into bouts of wailing and sobbing?

While we promote self-sufficiency and being beholden to no other man or system in our particular subculture we need to keep remembering that no man is an island. The people you associate with are going to determine where you are heading. Surround yourself with people who possess beliefs that lead to perpetual victimhood and you’ll become a victim yourself. Associate with people that can’t stand up for anything except a spineless tolerance that refuses to make any sort of value judgements and make the tough choice of saying ‘A is simply better then B when it comes to accomplishing C” whether A is an idea, an action, or even a type of person and you will soon lose your own spine; being afraid to fight for anything for the fear that it’ll make someone somewhere unhappy.

That said this was still a lesson in knowing when is the right time to drop RP knowledge. Naturally I’m a very open and sharing person when it comes to my beliefs and opinions but after this incident I’ve learned to be a lot more careful. In this case I didn’t really lose much since I was already growing to dislike quite a few of the people in the group but it definitely was a warning – what if this has happened with people who I actually respected and who were in positions and had connections that could either help or hinder me in my personal goals? Be careful out there guys.

I quoted this today because I find myself having to temper and measure my Red Pill evangelism with people I know personally or interact with professionally. I say evangelism because, in spite of any measured explanation, this is what it comes off as to most uninitiated Blue Pill plugins. There’s a degree of diplomatic tact you have to practice the more Red Pill aware a man becomes.

Sometimes that’s tough, especially when you’ve gone through personal changes and development that’s benefitted your life as a result. Red Pill awareness may have even saved a man’s life, so just shutting up about it, or having a hesitancy to help out a fellow man in need of that awareness becomes a real conflict.

In June I’ll have been back in Nevada for two years and in that time I’ve reacquainted myself with old friends I haven’t seen since I left for Florida almost ten years ago. All of them I find in similar (if not identical) states in which I left them. Some of these men are long time close personal friends I’d kept in touch with over the years, but with the exception of maybe one out of a dozen, all are still foundering in the same Beta mindset, lifestyle and behaviors they had ten years ago. All of them still complain of the same Beta-relationship issues they had with their wives (some now ex-wives) they confided in me then.

The Rule

NEO: I can’t go back, can I?

MORPHEUS: No. But if you could, would you really want to?  I feel that I owe you an apology. There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It is dangerous. They have trouble letting go. Their mind turns against them. I’ve seen it happen. I’m sorry. I broke the rule because I had to.

You’ll have to forgive my using the Matrix metaphor, but every time I’m tempted to awaken a man I think may desperately need the truth of Red Pill awareness I’m reminded of this exchange. I understand why this would be a rule. Granted, I’ve broken it myself many times; usually when I think a man is a danger to himself, but I do so with the knowing that I’ll need to invest myself personally in his conditions and that’s where that cautious hesitation comes from.

There are friends I have who I know would outright reject Red Pill truths, but more so their lives would be turned upside down by having to confront those truths. I have a very good friend who’s remarried and living a new life with his second wife, who is still clinging to all of the internalized Beta illusions and behaviors that contributed to his first brutal divorce.

I could make him aware of all the factors that led up to this very painful episode in his life. I could run down the list of how the woman he married early in life followed the time line I put forth in Preventive Medicine to the letter, why his daughters are both following her footsteps and why his son will grow into being a martyred Beta White Knight like himself.

I could also explain all the factors that led to his new wife’s need for him (who by his Beta measures he’s thrilled with), but I ask myself, why destroy that bliss for him? He’s not now, nor likely will be, ready to have any of that explained. My concern is that he’s too far along in life to bear the burden of that truth. He’d have trouble letting go. His mind would turn against him.

If he were to reach that point of desperation again I’d certainly be compelled to reach out to him and offer the Red Pill to him, but as I’ve said in the past, unplugging men from the Matrix is a lot like triage – save the ones you can, read last rites to the dying. But this guy’s not dying and giving him the medicine might be worse than his conditions.

Law 10 – Infection: avoid the unhappy and unlucky.

Though your compassionate, charitable side may compel you to associate with the sad and downtrodden, if power attainment is your goal then avoid such people. Their bad vibe and energy-draining demeanor are too often infectious. You run a very serious risk of falling into line with their misery. Instead spend your time with people who are happy and successful. You can die from someone else’s misery – emotional states are as infectious as disease.

When I quote Law 10 it’s usually in response to a guy dealing with troubled, toxic women dragging them down into the quicksand of their own making. The Savior Schema usually warrants this truth; it’s a want in a belief that a woman will appreciate and reciprocate for a man ready to be the solution to her problems. However, the same can apply for men who attempt to free the minds of other men.

In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power.

As I state in the books, I’m not interested in Tomassi clones, this is why I’m humbled by every man’s story I’m emailed or commented on about how they changed their lives with what I put forth in my writing.

From the Roosh forum again:

The only ‘danger’ the red pill presents is one’s own inability to let go of previous beliefs when confronted with truth. The red pill makes you look in the mirror and come to terms with your own ego and the lies it convinced you of.

“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”

Our ego is what we’re ultimately protecting. Most people don’t have an identity beyond their ego, that’s why most of the population can’t handle the red pill. Unless you were born with red pill parents, being raised blue pill and transitioning to red (altering your very reality) will always be traumatic on some level.

I’m of the opinion that trauma and crisis are necessary components to arriving at a point where a man is open to Red Pill awareness. I realize how distorted that sounds. It should be that a rational laying out of Red Pill truths should be self-evident, but it’s important to contrast that hope with the lifetime of feminine-primary conditioning men receive since their infancy.

There will always be people who will never accept even to most base and evident Red Pill fundamental truths. I completely understand Wutang’s premise for wanting to create our own manospherean tribes. We’ve had a good bit of commentary regarding Jack Donovan’s (Way of Men) call for organizing in like-minded collectives of men, and while I agree and find that laudable, I also know that isolation is dangerous.

Even by Law 10 it makes sense to surround oneself with the “happy and successful”; that’s a pretty deductive truth. However, I can’t ignore that many of the most condition-blinded people are also the most happy. I know multi-millionaires who are among the most abject Betas with regard to their intersexual relations.

So I guess what I’m saying is that there needs to be a level of discernment and discretion in this regard. I reach over half a million viewers / readers every month on TRM without advertising, without proselytizing, and men seem to find my works more and more. When the student is ready the teacher will appear – these men are seeking out the Red Pill and I suspect more will as Open Hypergamy and the machinations of the Feminine Imperative become unignorable.

You can’t teach those unwilling to learn – maybe it’s less about being convincing and more about being ready to help when the opportunities arise? That’s not me being magnanimous, that’s me being practical.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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hoellenhund2
6 years ago

Oh well, I fucked it up. I was responding to this:

The problem is that there are simply too many men. The operative sex ratio is too high — historically, most men didn’t breed, and had no expectation of breeding. They were not suited to breed, and were killed off either in intra-tribal violence, extra-tribal violence, wars, sickness in childhood and the like. This reduced the operative sex ratio among men in a way that did not impact women, because of course women were not expendable in the same way.

SFC Ton
6 years ago

3 doubles? Sounds like breakfast.

Thoroughbred
Thoroughbred
6 years ago

@SFC – “Sun, the way I conveyed info to my son matches my style of doing things. More on the spot during the natural flow of life vs having a sit down. I cannot say one is superior to the other. We are who we are and should live, learn, teach etc according to what suits are talents and inclinations. I hated doing sit downs with my troops too” Not crazy about sit downs myself. Which is why I want to basically give him the info without a big “talk” and hope he takes to it on his own. As… Read more »

Jetxo
Jetxo
6 years ago

@M Simon — May 12th, 2015 at 9:20 pm But she is profoundly unhappy because she does not get her female side – at all. Feminism has done a profound disservice to women. Maybe 10% of women want to be men. Feminism has convinced them that they ALL do. There will be a reaction. Thanks M, favorite comment so far in this thread, it lingered in my head for some time yesterday. Tom Ligon from Paint your wagon ?? funny, his role in that film is a from beta to alpha man story wrapped in a strange musical/comedy/cowboy film that… Read more »

Jetxo
Jetxo
6 years ago

@Seraph Glad I could help in some way. On my case the red pill came integrated on a whole package of other questions I needed to get an answer some way or another. So I can relate to what you are going through. There is a certain feeling of alienation from awakening, since we feel different from the majority of other people around you. In my case meditation help me a lot. This is a good starting video to get introduced to the practice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvNRkSWIAi8 You can skip to half of the video since the guy repeat the same thing… Read more »

longgone
longgone
6 years ago

@M Simon “Cut off all contact until the anger goes away. – Worked for me. Then I cut him off some more until he corrected his errors.” Passive/aggressive bitch tactic and bad advice. Men lead by example and in person especially to their BP dads. Rugby seems to have been making progress understanding his dad and maybe showing the way….and you come off with this silliness. This and your cannabis lunacy a while back are why I’m returning to scrolling past you. Aged stoner posing as a leader…indeed. Interesting duet you and MYG have going just now. Funny how she… Read more »

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@SiffrellC – Simmer down, princess. I get it, you are over-invested in MBTI too. But given the known science and criticism on the subject, that simply makes you anti-intellectual. Pointing out EVIDENCE of your misguided beliefs doesn’t make me a “whiny bitch”, it makes you emotional and hysterical. And to compare taking an MBTI test to your boards is an absurd construction that only reveals your own emotional approach to this issue. What you don’t even know is that I never minded taking these tests and participating in the workshops in the ’80s and 90’s and early 2000’s – I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@M Simon NEXTing is not just for women. It is for bars. Scenes. Groups. What ever. Heh, this kinda missed my point. The price of pussy is cheaper than it has ever been. Next. The price of ONE Pussy has never been higher. And perhaps that is what you mean. In the context of a man committing or being a Beta (which I suppose is just another way of saying committing), yes. For Alphas it’s cheaper than ever, but I’ve yet to really experience that with women I really find attractive. For Betas (or anyone wanting to commit) the price… Read more »

ExpatRP
ExpatRP
6 years ago

Before reading this post, I was speaking with a RP friend of mine in the office about this topic, about how we believe that men have to “find” it instead of being enlightened and the there are men that are “prepared” to be exposed to these reallities. We were also talking about one idea that seems to be true and is related with this quote from Morpheo: “For me personally, it was a fairly easy transition. OK, that other set of Rules doesn’t work, here is the new set of rules.” I completely agree. I’m a scientist and I see… Read more »

Driver
Driver
6 years ago

@ Dr. Jeremy “No, in my experience, many men just sit around aimless until someone else imposes some external meaning on them. Even with a “hands off” and helpful counselor, they will simply wait and bounce from an over-controlling mother, to a nagging wife, or to a cultish church, or a driving boss. Sometimes, the best you can do is help them to pick something to follow that won’t exploit them “as much”. For me, that is heartbreaking…and why I don’t do traditional counseling anymore.” I believe when a man reaches that point (a travesty in his life – like… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Mad Yale Grad May 14th, 2015 at 3:00 am M. Simon, “None the less – she is not happy despite being a 9.5 going on 10. She is not riding the carousel.” How would you know? I have my sources. That is not to say she hasn’t taken on a boyfriend or two. But she is not into masses. As far as I’m able to discern. What does she have against men? None of them are “good enough”. She wants to be an actress. Everyone (female friends, my mom, my mom’s best friend, the fm etc.) has told her that… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . there wasn’t any readily available information before the manosphere came along . . .” Before the manosphere came along women read Kipling to their man children, openly and without shame. The very first chapter of The Story of Dr. Doolittle is a mini red pill essay in itself. Conan Doyle’s The Greek Interpreter is also excellent. There was also The Big Sleep, The Quiet Man and Double Indemnity. “How could I have known that murder could sometimes smell like honeysuckle?” You could read a book or go to the movies, that’s how. Red Pill information was… Read more »

M Simon
6 years ago

Sun Wukong
May 14th, 2015 at 9:37 am

You can only get a good “deal” with game. My dad was a player before he got married. Mom knew it. He continued to game mom until he died. Their relationship lasted about 50 years. Mom still has good things to say about him.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@Jetxco – “There is a certain feeling of alienation from awakening, since we feel different from the majority of other people around you.” Great point. And I like the video, although I’ve long cultivated a mediation practice but as you know one way to ground oneself in meditation is to always be a beginner, so I made myself listen to the video anyway. Even if some of what he says is silly like “we only use 5% of our capacity”, much of it is very well said and accessible. Walking meditation is great. Many westerners believe that meditation is about… Read more »

realgaryseven
6 years ago

Reblogged this on ReactionaryThought.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@Dr. Jeremy – First, i love your contributions here. I don’t respond because I rarely think I can add to it in any way and see you as a teacher here. So, thanks. This malleable state you find men is also learned, to my way of thinking. I’m very close to my young nephew who is now 6 and it’ s all too clear to me how conformance to authority, particularly female authority is being beaten into him by the women around him, including and especially from my sister. And his dad reinforces it – so strange, he’s so traditionally… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

@ rugby11ljh To start, I can gab about general social dynamics and persuasion all I want, but I’m not currently licensed to provide professional advice or counseling on anything that might be considered mental health type concerns. I’m not exactly sure where “anger with dad” falls in that professional license domain. So, if you feel you would like a professional opinion on that topic, I encourage you to see a local counselor in your area. With that disclaimer out of the way…I can share my own personal experience as a commentator. In my personal experience, I have found that trying… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

Kfg: “Before the manosphere came along women read Kipling to their man children, openly and without shame. The very first chapter of The Story of Dr. Doolittle is a mini red pill essay in itself. Conan Doyle’s The Greek Interpreter is also excellent. There was also The Big Sleep, The Quiet Man and Double Indemnity. “How could I have known that murder could sometimes smell like honeysuckle?” You could read a book or go to the movies, that’s how. Red Pill information was everywhere. There are still central depositories of it. Read Huckleberry Finn, only be sure to find an… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago

Love this post… it’s true for women, too, or anyone who wants to have a good life in regular (politically correct) society. One has to be a little diplomatic with these truths, you can’t just espouse them like some psycho, because that is exactly how you’ll be viewed… like a “pyschopath.” You can’t just announce that fatness ruins girl’s prettiness, unless you want all the overweight women (and quite a few white knight mangina men) to hate you. You have to be able to survive in the workplace, not offend too many people. And it gets even more personal when… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

@ Glenn Thanks. I continue to learn a lot from reading your commentary and the thoughts of others on here too. My two cents… I think that only masculine men can truly raise boys to be masculine men. Within that framework, there is still some conformance to (male) authority in the hierarchy…but the social dynamics of that hierarchy are more fluid and reward merit. In other words, young boys still initially learn that they have to follow and obey from men, but that is to simply learn the skills to prove themselves…and thereby earn more freedom and authority. So, it… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” . . . you can’t just espouse them like some psycho, because that is exactly how you’ll be viewed… like a “pyschopath.” ”

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a paranoid schizophrenic.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@dragonfly

Marrying a man she has no visceral attraction for? My wife did the same thing.

That’s the hardest truth I have had to accept.

The night I realized this…I literally threw up. Been killing the beta ever since.

Why on God’s green earth would she marry someone that she didn’t lust after? She was only 20 at the time!

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@M Simon Keep in mind that part of the price I refer to for Betas is also the price of late life conversion that guys like me pay. The absolute destruction of everything that defined your reality and who you were is a tremendous cost, even if those things were ultimately not good for you. It’s still a huge psychological toll to stand up and become the Alpha you had beaten out of you by society. OK, if I can become a truly Alpha guy, the price once there is low. But the price that has to be paid to… Read more »

Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

Rollo I wonder how many men who comment here regularly would’ve fit your description of an average Beta man just 5 years ago. I wonder that too. I have interacted with numerous men in the last 10 years or so on this topic myself and pondered that idea. Some have taken the red pill and seemed to make incredible transformations. Others have spit it back up and remained in a rut. So, I began to think about what differentiates the guys who succeed from the ones who do not… Personally, the guys I’ve seen succeed had a lot of raw… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

Rhetorical question btw.

She told me in a moment of clarity that she didn’t care who she was with as long as she is not alone.

Insecurity.

Marriage = acceptance.

I suppose I’m guilty of the same.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@Glenn
May 14th, 2015 at 9:37 am

Allow me to give a simple lesson to commentators (in this case me) on TRM who annoy other commentators.

I’m walking away from my keyboard. And shutting up.

Jay Will
Jay Will
6 years ago

Both “alpha” men (basically guys who shag a lot of women) and the women they have sex with are heavily invested in keeping things “discrete”. A lot of this is to do with preventing other males getting jealous about it all. Hence men who shag a lot rarely brag about it. When I sense I’m around men/women who are getting it on, high levels of fertility/testosterone it hurts. Also giving the game away usually results in you having ball-breaking insults, particularly off women, so its always better to just shut up. Or make fun of yourself as I do, self-deprecate… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

” Personally, I operate under that premise, in order to give every man a chance.”

But in so doing, miss some of the men who could most benefit from your attention.

You only have so much time and energy to give. You would do a better service to all men if you could save only two men, who could each save two men.

Dr. Jeremy
6 years ago

@ KFG

Good point…thanks.

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

She told u to “stay nice”?

Women are so predictable. My wife tells me quite a bit, “you used to be such a nice guy!”

Yes, yes I was.

Heaven forbid her beta provider finds his alpha. Lol

eon
eon
6 years ago

“My friend is super religious and he took offense at Red Pill. I was shocked by his response.” “In RooshV comments … ‘I’m convinced there are two kinds of ‘red pill’, and the valley between them is basically the grand canyon.” . One way to understand this is through the distinction between believer and non-believer, which is fundamental. For example, consider “atheist”. . One who believes in the non-existence of God, a position for which there is no specific evidence, is a believer. A believer makes such choices based on feelings and mental resonances, but can be turned from one… Read more »

greginaurora
6 years ago

@eon: I made the jump to the Red Pill easily, and I think you’ve described the reason why. All attempts to facilitate the Blue Pill resulted in failure. Mild attempts, toying with the Red Pill, had instant results that described a better theory. If the Red Pill produces success, and the Blue Pill produces failure, then the Red Pill is right and the Blue Pill is wrong. Simple as that.

New Yorker
New Yorker
6 years ago

Example of hamster thinking:

I am divorced, dating a girl for a year. Run into my ex-wife’s former friend on the street. She asks about my girlfriend…my response “she has not been fired yet”….she responds with an excited gleam in her eye….asks me if I want to meet her friend who is a single mom. My response “no kids…that’s somebody else’s problem”….her eyes get even more excited….tells me “but you have a kid”….my response..”that doesn’t count”…this girl is a hard-core feminist and she couldn’t hide her excitement at open “misogyny”. Live, learn and enjoy.

Glenn
Glenn
6 years ago

@Sifrellc – Qhat on earth do you think you are demonstrating to other commentators? How to act like a woman? You haven’t addressed any of the many substantive criticisms of MBTI contained in the article I linked to. You merely threw a tantrum and called me a whiny bitch. And I don’t find you annoying, I find you anti-intellectual and ignorant on this topic. The two of you are acting like 9 year old girls. Boo hoo that you don’t like having a treasured concept you have invested way too much energy in shown to be nonsense. Get used to… Read more »

Lion
Lion
6 years ago

I admire Roosh’s brutal honesty with both himself and with others. In a world where people tell you what they think you want to hear, I value the brutally honest ones even though what they say might be hurtful. I don’t agree with Roosh on everything, but I read and follow along because I really am interested in his thoughts – mostly because I know he’s being honest about those thoughts, and I can count on that honesty. In a sense, he’s growing and changing alongside of us. He’s publicly acknowledged that he’s changing now that he’s in his mid… Read more »

Lion
Lion
6 years ago

“There is a rule that we do not free a mind once it reaches a certain age.” I’m going on a wild ass guess here that you mean age 79 and a half. Otherwise you’d be guilty as hell.

Thoroughbred
Thoroughbred
6 years ago

@Cave Clown… You’re not alone. Hardest truth I’ve ever had to accept as well. Devastating actually. Particularly since the woman I dumped to marry the wife with no visceral attraction WAS viscerally attracted to me. “Women are so predictable. My wife tells me quite a bit, ‘you used to be such a nice guy!'” Man, sounds like we are definitely on the same trajectory! Used to get that one quite a bit as well, but now I get “God, you’re such an asshole!” (which I count as major progress.) I would definitely count the “you used to be such a… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@Thoroughbred I get the asshole thing a lot too! When the blue pill beta first finds out that the woman who vowed her undying love to him in front of his family, friends, and his God, was in his mind lying…it can be a little bit hard to handle. “Take” the red pill? More like “hit by a truck” Anyway, I’m intricately familiar with athols work. Wish him the best, but ultimately he went down a road I won’t follow. If the sex is destined to be only as good as it was at the beginning, then I will not… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@Rollo

I’ve read it like three times today! Lol

I’m leaving the bitter part of the red pill behind. Been there far too long. I’ve been told my whole life that I need to relax and should be content with what I have.

To stop constantly moving.

But I’ve never had that contentment they wanted me to have. I realize now why that is.

Great post, thanks for taking the time to link it.

New Yorker
New Yorker
6 years ago

@ Rollo Understanding the Red Pill is what allows a man to escape the beta doldrums. Even natural Alphas go beta for periods of time, but intellectually understanding one beta relapse helps to end it. My dad is a natural alpha who went beta for relatively long periods. Had he known about the red pill, he could have ended the relapses earlier. As a result, I grew up much more beta than my natural tendencies, which only emerged when I left the house. I am a natural alpha in terms of seeing the world and wanting to dominate but I… Read more »

kfg
kfg
6 years ago

“I am in particular a fan of Rollo given his detached approach to things . . .”

Rollo is straightforward, concise and comprehensive. Although I obviously read comments and have been known to post a few, I also know that if a really important idea is raised in them, Rollo will feature it in an article, so I won’t miss much when I’ve been giving the comments a miss.

Here there be only dragons. No filler, no bullshit, no clickbait and no “sponsored articles.”

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

“I get the asshole thing a lot too!”

Only doormats or castrated dogs with their teeth filed flat and their tails incessantly tucked up their butts never get called assholes. If you are making your own choices, it is inevitable you will sometimes be called an “asshole”.

Lone Survivor
Lone Survivor
6 years ago

People, you have to check this out:

returnofkings.com/63036/why-you-should-not-go-see-mad-max-feminist-road

Awesome analysis, it created a shitstorm… you won’t believe the amount of white knights defending Crap Max and the feminazi message it delivers.

LiveFearless
6 years ago

Reblogged this on Livefearless and commented: “In both volumes of The Rational Male I make a specific effort to address that Rollo Tomassi doesn’t want to be a savior – I want men to be their own saviors because, although I may present Red Pill truths, it’s ultimately a man who needs to be the director of his own life. If the true measure of power is the degree of control a man has over his own life, relying on a savior, relying on how well one conforms to his plan, is really a limit on that power. As I… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  LiveFearless

@Thoroughbred “Even then they were quickly dying out… Now they are almost nonexistent.” Hope something stays… “She said she really valued the fact that I do what I want to do, that I don’t ask her permission, that I’m completely independent.” That’s what I am building in my body and mind. @Longgone Well I suppose I will confront again usually didn’t end well but maybe that IS being Alpha just doing things that need to be done. @Driver I agree @kfg “Read Huckleberry Finn, only be sure to find an old copy that hasn’t been “edited” by an SJW.” Oh… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

La de daa de daa de daaaa da…. Go tell it on the mountain ! Over the hills and everywhere Go tell it on the mountain That the red pill is here The women all were hypergaming Over their betas at night When a cure for men was prescribed That gives them new insight Go tell it on the mountain ! Over the hills and everywhere Go tell it on the mountain That the red pill is here They found a little red pill Where all the truth is revealed ‘Cause as the pill is taken Each man is redeemed… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@Glenn May 14th, 2015 at 2:02 pm “@Sifrellc – You haven’t addressed any of the many substantive criticisms of MBTI contained in the article I linked to. You merely threw a tantrum and called me a whiny bitch. And I don’t find you annoying, I find you anti-intellectual and ignorant on this topic.” Glen, I would rather be thought of annoying you. You calling me anti-intellectual is actually worse that kicking me hard in the balls. And you know that. You didn’t read or understand (that could be my fault) anywhere of what my point was, the fact that I… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
6 years ago

“Realistically though, the red pill eschews such idealistic equalism and is founded on the idea of a normal distribution of SMV – an unequal, natural hierarchy. So…do some guys spit out the red pill simply because they just think they cannot succeed, or because they actually lack the ability to do so and know it?” You bring up an excellent point that touches on another exchange here regarding sex ratios. Bottom line, even with normal SMV distribution, there would be, by definition, a ever smaller number of Alpha Men and very desirable women the further up the SMV you went.… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@ Sun Wukong

Regarding your Teamspeak3 round table discussions, did you catch that link I posted before regarding what Jonathan Frost at Freedom Twenty-Five does weekly with his gang of 7 men?

http://www.freedomtwentyfive.com/2012/11/getting-the-gang-back-together/

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@Rugby Denial is a tough one. But it’s just an ego self defense, nothing more. The good thing about the truth, is it doesn’t require me or anyone else to believe it. It’s still the truth regardless. I very rarely slip into nice guy habits. Except for my family, almost everyone I know would be shocked to know that’s how I was. When I decided to KILL the beta, man I wanted that sucker dead. I even went so far as to destroy most old photographs of myself during that time period. He’s a tough son of a bitch though.… Read more »

Seraph
Seraph
6 years ago

Further thought…

What I am saying is the Red Pill, just like in The Matrix, offers one freedom.

Freedom to choose not out of ignorance, but with full knowledge. Choose MRA, MGTOW, PUA or go gay….Whatevah!

The point is you now have options. Blue Pill men can and still be sold on it for that reason alone, can’t they?

I don’t know…it just seems that while keeping the RP down is painful, it is less so than not doing so in the long run.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Red Shift –

When an object moves away from us, its light waves are stretched into lower frequencies or longer wavelengths, and we say that the light is redshifted. In the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, blue light has the highest frequency and red light has the lowest.

Red Pill is not Red Shift.

Red Pill awareness does not require MGTOW. MGTOW is men moving away from women – Red Shift. MTGOW is a gag reaction to the Red Pill, not embracement of it.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@sjfrellc Yeah I think I remember seeing that a while back even before you posted the link. It’s what got me thinking “Hmmm, how could I help guys like myself who haven’t found a local group for this stuff yet?” The idea kinda worked from there. Doing things over the internet means making things more anonymous allows us to open it up to others so that they can see how a group like that can work in their own lives. Obviously we’re also restricted by not being able to get together and actually go do shit (hence the reason I… Read more »

Dragonfly
6 years ago

“When the blue pill beta first finds out that the woman who vowed her undying love to him in front of his family, friends, and his God, was in his mind lying…it can be a little bit hard to handle. “Take” the red pill? More like “hit by a truck”” I know you think she was just going off of the lies she’s been told, and that may have some truth to it, but you need to understand that women are very aware of what they’re doing. There is Open Hypergamy now in the way of Sheryl Sandberg, but it… Read more »

longgone
longgone
6 years ago

@rugby
Hope your team’s melt-down is temporary; if not maybe you’ll start your own.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

I was just thinking you can adapt features of his format to keep the discussion focused. “The format of each session is as follows: 8:00 PM – Quick round table. Tell us your top three priorities in life at the moment. 8:10 PM – Weekly review roundtable. Reflect on your goals from last week’s meeting. Did you get your shit done? Why or why not? Questions, suggestions, and calling people out for bullshit, rationalizations and weakness is highly encouraged. 8:15 PM – Presentation. One member gives a short presentation on a topic that other members can use to improve their… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

@Dragonfly – Yea….and that’s how and why bad practices continue in any culture or family or relationship. “Damn the torpedoes” and “The only thing we have to fear is fear itself” I’ve found it best to get things out in the open. Your grand mother may have been to the same school my mother attended. There were a lot of red pill bottles laying around my house when I was a little boy….and they were not happy pills….. I wrote the following with guitar chords and all, it was very therapeutic and helped me reconcile. I assumed and feared it… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@sjfrellc

Already ahead of you. Didn’t steal the whole format, but a couple aspects of it. We’ll see where it goes from there. You gonna be there this Sunday?

Dragonfly
6 years ago

In other words, your life itself is a letter (that’s scripture, too) that people will either want to read or will reject. People, no matter what political side they’re on, will either look at you and your life and want to emulate it, be jealous of it, or ignore it altogether. You make a statement very powerfully, (even a political statement), by how you live your life, the choices you make speak louder anyway than anything you can espouse about to the public. Many of my husband’s coworkers, his friends, my friends, our mutual friends… read my blog. I cannot… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@Dragonfly There are many things my adorable 4 year old son espouses that are extremely “misogynistic” to the world’s view, but I don’t publish them on facebook or my blog because I don’t want him to be marked by things (his opinions, which obviously come from our opinions) that are best kept private. Maybe I’m weird, but nothing about my kids (if I had any) would go up on the internet. Permanent public records about them made without their understanding have a way of coming back to haunt them. I’d rather let them get old enough to decide the level… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

Maybe. If Glenn hints at not kicking me in the balls.

I’d love to. I’m way behind in my hunting habitat/ farming tasks and the grasses and winter annuals are taking over the food plots.

I’ll try my best to attend.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Gentle persuasion and consideration for others certainly can be effective. You cannot train a horse without respecting it and “getting into its mind” some. However, there will always be extremists related to any issue who are so delusional and ego invested they are willing to literally fight to the death. No fundamental change occurs without risk and casualties. Freedom is not free. I refuse to be a hostage.

Softek
Softek
6 years ago

I remember choking on the Red Pill. I don’t remember what choking on it felt like. I remember when my life revolved around fantasies about being with women. I don’t remember what that felt like. The illusions are cleared away. So what now? Dr. Jeremy said: “…the red pill may need to evolve further, especially if it wants to be a viable perspective for more men. A base of pragmatism is an excellent foundation for survival, but man needs a sense of meaning and purpose to truly “live” too.” I agree with Rollo’s perspective about men needing to come to… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Whispering about the elephant in the room or the emperor with no clothes will not get the elephant out of the room or dress the emperor.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
6 years ago

@sjfrellc

Glenn’s bark is worse than his bite. Don’t let it stop you from joining. 😉

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

“What’re you going to do once your eyes are open?”

Answer: Take a look around, observe consequences of actions rather than hoping for actions dreamt of before.

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

Dragonfly – “In other words, your life itself is a letter (that’s scripture, too) that people will either want to read or will reject. People, no matter what political side they’re on, will either look at you and your life and want to emulate it, be jealous of it, or ignore it altogether. You make a statement very powerfully, (even a political statement), by how you live your life, the choices you make speak louder anyway than anything you can espouse about to the public” Precious please know – “You can waste a whole lifetime trying to be what you… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

“What’re you going to do once your eyes are open?” Go out and make yourself someone a girl would want to get with. Athletically lift or train, have passionate pursuits on the side, have a mission outside work, family and friends. Read books and inspiring literature. (By the way TheBluepillProfessor has quit an impressive reading list of Red pill books related to Game.) http://www.reddit.com/r/redpillbooks/comments/2fae6w/red_pill_books_from_the_professor/ Obtain Mastery in your job, in your pursuits and in Game. Be the best you can be and don’t settle. Keep telling yourself at every stage in your life, “Now is not the time to be… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
6 years ago
Reply to  sjfrellc

@Caveclown “When I decided to KILL the beta, man I wanted that sucker dead. I even went so far as to destroy most old photographs of myself during that time period. He’s a tough son of a bitch though. Didn’t go down without a fight. Got him by the throat now. I don’t lose” I am trying to kill him. He comes back at night and wants my self back. I see him as a sex addict who doesn’t know how to not care about the feelings of others. He’s doing what he can but I tried to drown the… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@dragonfly

Thanks for sharing the story of your grandparents.

My mom’s parents: Beta man, bitchy woman.

My dad’s parents: Alpha man, feminine woman that worshiped him.

So what comes first, a bitchy woman or a beta man?

Not Born This Morning
6 years ago

From the Christian perspective it would be a beta man…..Adam

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“My mom’s parents: Beta man, bitchy woman.
My dad’s parents: Alpha man, feminine woman that worshiped him.
So what comes first, a bitchy woman or a beta man?”

My dad was pretty alpha and my mom was still a bitch.
But it was passive aggressive instead of direct, so there’s that.
He had two years of married life that were good, before she was fluent in English.

Jay Will
Jay Will
6 years ago

“insanitytrites22 you still cling to staring at the shadows on the back of the cave wall when Men have shown you there’s a sun shining outside the cave.”

Poor response. Its a freak, possibly a weak male or some kind of inbetweener. Freaks are easy for me, I know my own kind. Ignore or make fun of.

Jay Will
Jay Will
6 years ago

Im the man!!!

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

“My dad was pretty alpha and my mom was still a bitch.
But it was passive aggressive instead of direct, so there’s that.”

I LOVE passive aggressiveness! It’s my favorite thing ever.

“He had two years of married life that were good, before she was fluent in English.”

No offense, but this made me laugh. So… they had a good marriage when she couldn’t say anything to him? Doesn’t that describe all marriages? lol

Jay Will
Jay Will
6 years ago

How does the gay thing work here? Theres notables above. They always hijack anything masculine as arse banditry don’t they? Is anyone with any real bollox and does well with women got the guts to call out homo for what it is? That Jack Donovan wants to fuck men he fancies doesn’t he? Are you happy buying into a guy when the male image your looking up to is one that he wants to fuck? Does that all come together in some hippy lovefest? The Vikings went pillaging and plundering while handjobbing each other on those lonely long trips? Hollywood… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

QUESTIONS: 1. Someone said historically most men did not reproduce. I thought it was 40%? Either way it sheds perspective on the complaints that “in them thar good ol’ days evr’y man gotz him a decent wife”. 2. Someone said the gubmint/po po is gon pull gunz on “hard working, god fearing white men”. A. why do you think the gubmint/po po is going to switch from killing black dudes to white ones, and B. when do you think this switch will happen and finally, C. why exactly do they “fear” god? 3. MBTI: Someone said it was commissioned by… Read more »

Liz
Liz
6 years ago

“So… they had a good marriage when she couldn’t say anything to him? Doesn’t that describe all marriages? lol”

Yep. Most marriages.
Some men are probably lucky enough to be married to mutes. 😛

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Is it troll-ish in here, or is it just me?

Jay Will
Jay Will
6 years ago

I’ll have a look at that tomorrow. I read up to where even with gays its dominant/sumbmissive. This would suggest insecurity amongst weaker men like me around gays is due to fear of their predatorial capability. Being dominated by another male as if I am the woman/submissive is a fear (prisons). Even more reason for average men, and dominant men WHO GIVE A FCK ABOUT THE GROUP THEY ARE IN to keep them out. Homosexuality is an underminer of male groups. Hence why “superior” people like to use it as a weapon, its to stick the boot into the little… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

” It’s a very tough choice to make, yet inevitable. You HAVE to. But it’s a difficult pill to swallow. The side effects are really nasty. Ever since I did it, my life changed to the better, but alas, to the bitter too. The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. But I don’t LIKE what I see. Because what I see is hypocrisy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery. When you see the world in red pill eyes, you see the ugly reality. It makes you stop enjoying many things in life. It makes you find the… Read more »

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

One has to distinguish between what is “gay” in 2015, and what the Romans and Greeks were doing, for example. In the latter case, there was no conception of a “fixed gay sexual orientation”. Doubtless there were likely a small number who had such, as we have today, but the much larger number of men who were having sex with other men and boys were not only having sex with these, but also with their female wives. This was not considered abnormal. The sex was a kind of bonding among males, as well as an aspect of pedagogy in Greece,… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

Why, YES!!! It is getting troll-ish in here!!

CaveClown
CaveClown
6 years ago

@blaximus

Trolls?

I thought it was getting that way too.

But I’m a gay, vegetarian, polygamous (celibate though, I only beta provide for multiple other gay men. no sex), unemployed expat that burned his passport while drinking some sort of bad kool-aid.

So what would I know?

Now excuse me, myself and my ex-born again christian friends must gather to honor buddha.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@Cave,

I laughed, Atlas shrugged.

Blaximus
Blaximus
6 years ago

@MYG,

I changed my oil the other day and it opened my eyes to an ugly reality.

It made me question the condition of my air filter.

It gave me a nagging suspicion about the remaining life of my spark plugs.

I no longer trusted my power steering fluid.

32 pounds of air pressure in my tires no longer gave me the feeling of safety.

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

Jay Will, Jack Donovan is an odd one. I find Glenn’s championing of him weird as well. Someone else on here said Deida was a “fag” while Donovan is not. Though Deida is not only a heterosexual, the man gets laid like tile, by very attractive women. Some other blogger said “some men are just so masculine and so much identify with the masculine that they don’t find the feminine attractive at all” in an attempt to justify Donovan’s takeover of the sphere. Yeah the hamster’s strong in that one. I don’t know what to make of it myself. Here’s… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

For the record, she reminds me what my take on taking the Red Pill: “It is an easy choice to make, yet not inevitable. You don’t have to” It is not a difficult pill to swallow The actual effects were good. Ever since I did , my life changed to the better, and to the sweet too. The thing is I now SEE. I’m not blind anymore. And I LIKE what I see. I see hippocracy, degeneration, mediocrity, ignorance and mental slavery. I always knew it existed now I see it clearly When you see the world in red pill… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

Rollo, I think his point was that m4m had more ads, because that sentence is preceded by, “In such a harsh and competitive environment many straight men are resorting to some sexual relief from other men anonymously. Don’t believe me? Go on craigslist personals section for your city and see for yourself.” and proceeded by ”And yes I myself am personally guilty of this.”

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

I take it that two commentators here never actually read “The Way of Men”? Let alone understand it.

And if you did read it, what is your understanding of it and it’s take away message? At which point in the book did you perceive any covert or overt messages as to the orientation of the author? There were none. Zero, Zip, Nada.

Two trolls employing troll game.

Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

Novaseeker, “In the latter case, there was no conception of a “fixed gay sexual orientation”. Doubtless there were likely a small number who had such, as we have today, but the much larger number of men who were having sex with other men and boys were not only having sex with these, but also with their female wives. This was not considered abnormal. The sex was a kind of bonding among males, as well as an aspect of pedagogy in Greece, and undoubtedly was also a form of sexual release and an expression of generational dominance among men. But it… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

I’ll take credit for saying that Deida is a fag (figuratively, in his writing). And Jack Donovan is a masculine male.

Novaseeker
Novaseeker
6 years ago

They were bi-sexual. Simple as that.

Not in the way that is constructed today, as a fixed orientation. It was not conceived or experienced as such. Bisexual in praxis, yes, but in orientation? The relevant orientation for the age was basically “top” or “bottom” (i.e., a functional descriptor), not “straight”, “gay”, “bi”, as we have today. This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors — they distort what was the case historically, in terms of how people self-conceived.

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

sifrellc, “I personally never trusted a physician. I am a physician and the only person I ever trusted with my own medical decisions was myself.” Occassionally we’ll come across an online article about parents who were legally harrassed because they did not take their child with cancer into get chemo. We’re they harrassed because they had medical insurance? If they had none would they have been left alone? “They were bi-sexual. Simple as that.” Novaseeker, “Not in the way that is constructed today” I don’t know how its “constructed” today and don’t care. Someone who has sex with both men… Read more »

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

If it were a Zombie apocalypse, My first thought would be in procuring a six to twelve month supple of Lantus and Humalog. My second thought would be, mmmmh who should I choose for my team. My gang. I would choose Donovan rather than Deida for the team. I’m sure Donovan would be better at raiding Eli Lily storage facilities for insulin and Deida would try to game my wife. His first move would be to rub belly buttons with her when I wasn’t looking and laugh off her shit testing.

sjfrellc
sjfrellc
6 years ago

@Mad Yale Grad
May 14th, 2015 at 10:47 pm

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Nor do I care even if you can explain it in a coherent fashion.

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

“Realistically though, the red pill eschews such idealistic equalism and is founded on the idea of a normal distribution of SMV – an unequal, natural hierarchy. ” For sure. Yet I was test-shitted when I said game/self-improvement will not catapult a 4 to an alpha 9 though it could put him above average as 6. “So do some guys spit out the red pill simply because they just think they cannot succeed, or because they actually lack the ability to do so and know it?” Either they spit it out or they get mad at me, when what they should… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

“Remember, commentators, indifference is worse fate than hate.” I have nothing against teh gayz. I have a few of them in my family and in my friends circle. Good peepz. I just find the whole Jack-in-the-Sphere-Box an interesting twist on things. ” This is why it is dangerous to read into that past current orientational descriptors” Dangerous? Inaccurate, maybe. Incomplete, perhaps. But “dangerous”? Its not dangerous. “they distort what was the case historically, in terms of how people self-conceived.” Again, past, present or future, those who have sex with both are bi, whether they have that word in their language… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
Mad Yale Grad
6 years ago

Oh yeah, and he’s a white nationalist, Donovan that is. AmRen, the whole 9.

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