SMV Ratios & Attachment

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Since I produced the SMP graph last year I have had more than a few earnest readers and irritated critics call me to the carpet about the variables involved in estimating even a rough sketch of the modern, western, SMP landscape. Before I get into today’s post let me reiterate that my SMV chart is an imperfect tool; sexual market evaluation doesn’t happen in a vacuum, I know that, but it is a necessary starting point and framework against which we can better understand social, behavioral and psychological dynamics between the genders.

One of the larger messages this SMV life-overview brings to light is the rise and fall of an individual’s sexual market value according to their age and the personal implications that phase of their life has on affecting that valuation. I originally published the SMV chart with the intent of enlightening men as to what their future SMV (should) will be in relation to women’s faster burning SMV, and the social conventions women, and the feminine imperative, have established in order to derail that awareness to better service women’s sexual priorities and hypergamy. However, since then I’ve seen this chart passed around the manosphere and into outside forums as an example of other related gender dynamics. The chart has other uses than my original idea.

The Ennobled Beta

With this in mind I was debating the idea of secure attachments in relationships with a friend over my summer hiatus. He’s what I’ll call an ‘ennobled Beta’, not necessarily guilty of outright white knighting, but is steeped in his Matrix conditioning enough to conflate a prescribed male role in egalitarian equalism with masculinity. In other words, to him, to be a ‘supportive husband’ ® is to presume a position of absolute equalism in his relationship. Since he subscribes to the feminized notion of an historic condition of ‘male privilege’, generally this means he believes that limiting his inborn masculine nature allows his wife to be “more equal”. To him, real manhood is repressing his innate masculinity (such as it is) so that his wife will feel less inhibited in becoming something more than what a ‘masculine’ society will permit.

Yes, it’s classic Beta Identification Game; nothing I haven’t engaged already in the past decade. And yes, it’s also the classic feminist boilerplate that feminism has bred into contemporary males for over 50 years now. What hit me during this conversation is the presumption of an idealized equalism that can in some way be realized between a man and a woman in an LTR. The reason the topic came up with us was due to his wanting for his wife to be more aggressive with him sexually. He simply couldn’t grasp that his wife didn’t want to take the initiative with him in the bedroom. Here he was explaining the virtues of being a ‘better male’ in his playing fair and even with his wife, yet for all his giving her space to grow, she wouldn’t be the sexual instigator with him despite his equalist expectations that she would feel comfortable being that instigator. In a way he subscribes to the Relational Equity fallacy – he believes she ought to appreciate him sexually because he’s invested so much of himself in ensuring she  feels like his equal.

True Neutral

The problem he’s dealing with is the result of his belief in true gender neutrality. Learn this now, taken to its logical extreme, the end result of true gender neutrality is androgyny. No sexual dimorphism, just simple homogenous androgyny. Fortunately for us, nature abhors homogeny and has always found dynamic ways around the dead ends that the inbreeding of androgyny produces.

My friend’s wife’s sexual passivity (and general disinterest) is one such dynamic. Try as he may, no amount of social equalization will prompt his wife’s biological sexual impulse – in essence he’s attempting  to negotiate her desire with himself.

For all his frustration and inability to accept red pill truths I have to thank him because it was from this conflict that I had a starting point in estimating relationship attachment theory and its relation to SMV.

Roissy once proposed that the strength and security of any relationship rests in the disparity between each person’s sexual market value. While I endorse this principle entirely, I’m going to take it a bit further. As a general principle it works well for the guy wanting to maintain his frame in an LTR, however there’s more wrapped up in that SMV disparity than I think has been explored thus far.

As I began here, SMV doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Men may have an Alpha dominance established only to have it knocked back down after failing a particularly bad shit test. He may rate lower or higher depending on a social status that’s in flux. A woman must find ways to cope with an ever decaying SMV once she reaches her SMV peak and begins her decline towards the Wall. Childbirth and rearing, weight gain, satisfying a security need, and many other factors may also accelerate this process.

What I’m going to do here is propose a general outline for SMV disparity based on the ratio between both sexes. Before you read my outlines, keep in mind the Cardinal Rule of Relationships: In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least. The overarching concept here is that the person in the relationship with the superior sexual market value will at least be perceived by the person of lesser value to need them less than the other. If it is established by concrete social proof that one person is of higher SMV than the other, it’s usually an accepted reality of that relationship, but bear in mind that it is the fluctuating perception of SMV that has more influence on the attachment and strength of that relationship.

Finally, from a feminine perspective it’s important to remember that Hypergamy is a game of perceptions, testing, confirmations and retesting new perceptions. This process has a pronounced effect on SMV evaluation, which is then influenced by a woman’s own self-perceptions.

1:1

This is the position of Tue Neutral I illustrated with my friend’s situation above. I’m starting here because this ratio is the mythological ideal every equalist will tell you they’re striving for. Be they male or female, what adherents of equal balance fail to consider is that real, sustainable equilibrium in SMV is an impossibility. What every modern woman and gelded male in an LTR will tell you is that they believe they are common examples of that SMV equilibrium. The truth is that their ego investment in that equalist idealism wont allow for the real introspect necessary to accurately evaluate what their true individual SMV really is –both in relation to themselves and the greater whole of society in their demographic.

A 1:1 SMV doesn’t exist. I’m sure there will be naysayers who feel they “play it fair” with their wives or girlfriends, but the fact remains that SMV is always in flux and doesn’t allow for a true, sustainable equilibrium. Hypergamy is an easy example; fail one too many shit tests and your equitable 1:1 ratio slips to 2:1 in a woman’s favor. A man getting to the gym more frequently or getting a promotion in status may be enough to upset that 1:1 balance. There are simply too many variables in a contemporary relationship to take the notion of SMV equilibrium seriously. Furthermore, we must consider the effect that social media plays in women self-evaluations of their own SMV. And this is only one (albeit significant) social distortion that can upset the idealistic equitable balance.

Even in the most stable and SMV balanced pairings, the simple fact that both sexes’ SMV peaks occur at differing phases of life makes the notion of a contented balance laughable. However it is important for a Man to bear in mind that his SMV will eventually exceed that of any woman if he continues to improve himself and grows personally, physically and financially into his SMV peak years. There will eventually come a time when a woman’s SMV will decay to the point that her necessitousness will exceed her value. In other words, due to her fast burn-fast decay SMV, and recognized or not, she will eventually need a Man more than he needs her when he enters his peak SMV phase and she’s declined to the Wall of her own.

It’s during this critical phase that a woman must rely on her man’s socially expected love, charity, obligation and parental investment to maintain his secure attachment to her in the face of an obvious SMV imbalance. As I’ve covered before, women fundamentally lack the capacity to appreciate the sacrifices men make to facilitate women’s reality – and once those facial wrinkles and cellulite can no longer be disguised by makeup or collagen, women will still persist in the expectation of monogamous obligation, in preference to the genuine desire, love, devotion, etc. a man may legitimately feel about her regardless of her wrinkles.

2:1

Roissy has defined this ratio in the past as the golden mean of SMV between the genders – so long as the man is on the beneficial side of it. The most successful, stable and loving relationships don’t result from being equally yoked – they result from a mutually acknowledged SMV superiority of a positively masculine male and his adoring, yet subconsciously anxious, woman who’s up to a point below him in SMV evaluation.

Some guys get to this position by default. Either by genetics, prior hard work or simply being single at the phase of life when his SMV is peaking while hers is in decline, a man can prolong this ratio far longer and far more realistically than the 1:1 idealization. This isn’t to say his SMV can’t be reduced by failing a shit test or by unfortunate personal circumstances, but the durability and resiliencey of his higher SMV affords him more leeway in recovering from these missteps or calamities.

A man need not necessarily be an Alpha cad to establish this ratio, all that’s required is an acknowledged recognition of this SMV imbalance and the appropriate appreciation and adoration from the woman involved. There are plenty of Betas who enjoy (or eventually will enjoy) the benefits of a 2:1 ratio even when they don’t (or refuse to) recognize an SMV imbalance that weighs in their favor.

From a female side a 2:1 ratio is generally what most modern women find themselves dealing with; through realized fact or by self-deluded overestimation of their own SMV, most women already presume they are the party with the higher SMV. These are the naggers, the brow beaters, the women who wistfully to aggravatedly wish their men were more than they are. They crave the SMV imbalance that a dominant Alpha would satisfy, yet through their own ego investments, or due to their inability to lock that Alpha down, must relegate themselves to being the less necessitous person in their LTR.

3:1

While this is a tenable situation for a Man it borders on the unhealthy. Marginal fame, notoriety or an actualized condition of widely acknowledged social proof can make for a 3:1 SMV ratio. These are the Men who other women can’t help but be attracted and aroused by, and other men aspire to be in one way or another. The women they do pair off with are faced with two options: either maturely accept this inequity and rely on feminine wiles (and sexual performance) to create a situation of ‘value added’ emotional investment and secure his monogamy, or accept that she will only be a short term breeding option for him before a woman who’s a better SMV option presents herself to him.

Only the most secure of women in this ratio pairing don’t suffer from an state of passive dread. While a 2:1 pairing may force a women to deal with marginal self-doubt and underlying competition anxiety, a woman in a 3:1 pairing will have to confront the dread of loss that accompanies a less stable pairing. From a Hypergamic perspective, she’s hit the evolutionary jackpot – sexual pairing with a mate she wouldn’t normally have access to. Fat women who garner the drunken attentions of an out-of-options man of higher SMV make for the most common occurrences of a 3:1 pairing. Irrational jealousy and ‘accidental pregnancies’ are not uncommon in this pairing.

I should point out that a 3:1 pairing may also be the result of a 2:1 pairing that lasted into a man’s peak years and bumped him up a point, or more likely, the woman depreciated down a point or more as she hit the Wall.

From the female side, a 3:1 ratio is generally only a temporary condition. Leaving a man who is recognizably a full 2 points beneath her in SMV is really only a formality. Generally this female-side pairing is the result of an extreme circumstance, a particularly materialistic woman or a man who convinced a woman he was more Alpha than he seemed only to backslide into abject Betaness once he mistakenly thought he could get comfortable with her and expected her to love him for just being himself.

It should also be considered that a 3:1 female-side pairing may also be the result of a post Wall professional woman pairing off with the only Beta so intently conditioned in feminine-primary psychology that she would consider him preferable to celibacy.

4+:1

We’re pushing into the improbable here, but these pairing do exist. Your first thought may be the famous celebrity or musician who marries a ‘commoner’, but the more likely scenario is one where a previously more equitable pairing was solidified and one partner decayed so dramatically that this extreme imbalance resulted. It’s easy to find online before and after examples of women progressively fattening  from a trim sexy girl of 19 to a 200lbs+ landmonster of 26. I wish I could say these were outliers, but as all too many bloggers in the manosphere will attest, it’s increasingly common.

Women in the ‘before-and-after’ demographic who find themselves in a 4+:1 are often the most dependent upon the feminine social convention established to delimit men’s sexual selectivity. The Body Fat embracers and the ‘shallow’ men shamers are the most obvious examples.

Other than for the most egregious of gold diggers a sustainable 4:1 balance from the feminine side is a virtual impossibility.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Mr. Grundy
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Your prose style coach is impressed at the augmented limpidity of your prose; this is getting towards the level of clarity of a Steve Sailer, another great modern master of explication. Sailer himself, by the way, touts Pat Buchanan as an even greater explainer.

(Mr. Grundy wants to see Rollo become internationally known. Many people around the world now can read English, but they need it as clear and simple as the material will permit. And the clearest prose also makes translation easier.)

[“Prose should be architecture, not interior design.” – Ernest Hemingway]

Revo Luzione
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As a man in the fat-peak of his SMV range, with a burgeoning career and a commitment to health, fitness, and game–this information feels almost like cheating, as if Rollo’s my blackjack dealer, who watches with a nod & a wink as I extract another pair of aces from each of my sleeves. Life is good, and it is good to be a man.

bloody knuckles
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bloody knuckles
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*slow clap*

Resplendent. I’ve semi-consciously maintained a 2:1 ratio in all my relationships since coming across that roissy breakdown years back…now it makes since how every time I’ve unconsciously dipped into a 3:1 it was time to abandon ship.

greenlander
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greenlander
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Great post.

When is your book coming out?

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Socialkenny
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Nice analysis and compilation Rollo; although you admitted at the top that you cannot give a next to accurate ratio of the SMV. Sounds logical to me. And the irony is, although this is a woman’s world (sounds crazy but I meant that men are pussies), it’s ironic that a woman’s SMV decreases way earlier than men, while the guy’s sorta increases before the decline.

M3
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M3
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Everything Revo said above about a man in the fat-peak of his SMV range. My girlfriend has shown my picture to all her office co-workers.. who thusly begin to salivate and tell her they’d want to fuck me hard. When she tells them some of my many talents in bed, they begin to swoon and ask her when she’s going to bring me into the office to show off so they can ‘meet me’. I’m at the true 2:1 ratio right now. I did put in the hard work and was single at the time. My GF, Asian cutey that… Read more »

EyesWideOpen
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lovelost
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lovelost
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you do take time to put your thoughts and when you do it’s a masterpiece.

Jeremy
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Yes, it’s classic Beta Identification Game; nothing I haven’t engaged already in the past decade. And yes, it’s also the classic feminist boilerplate that feminism has bred into contemporary males for over 50 years now. What hit me during this conversation is the presumption of an idealized equalism that can in some way be realized between a man and a woman in an LTR. The reason the topic came up with us was due to his wanting for his wife to be more aggressive with him sexually. He simply couldn’t grasp that his wife didn’t want to take the initiative… Read more »

sogood
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Lol you idiot, do you even what a ratio is? The number before the colon represents a multiple of the number after the colon. So your “golden mean of SMV ratio” would mean that the best match ups are a 10 man with a 5 woman, or an 8 man with a 4, or a 6 man with a 3, lol! So a 10 man should be with the barely fuckable, an 8 with not even that, a 6 with a land whale that has a decent face, etc. No wonder your major was “psychology”. And it doesn’t seem you… Read more »

Random guy
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This is absolutely brilliant. Still he best writing in the manosphere.

treylesnorth
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Just read an article:

http://m.guardiannews.com/media/2013/apr/12/news-is-bad-rolf-dobelli

Substitute “news” with “manosphere” and related terms it reads pretty much like typical anti-game, but a good reminder all the same.

Kinda like this one on Return of the Kings:

http://www.returnofkings.com/9291/take-a-break-from-the-manosphere

Sometimes I just want to do whatever I choose and empty my mind of every contradictory opinion I have rumbling around in my head–and rid myself of the need to come up with a reason why I or anyone else did anything (“The Story of Me”).

treylesnorth
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…though I suppose it could just be framed as me being Cipher. Maybe should just trust my own judgement of things for once instead of relying on bloggers opinions to confirm my actions… much like we say women can’t go through with a decision without their hamsters requiring confirmation.

Checkout anytime you like. But you can never leave

Saluki
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This is what I’m dealing with: “… by self-deluded overestimation of their own SMV, most women already presume they are the party with the higher SMV. These are the naggers, the brow beaters, the women who wistfully to aggravatedly wish their men were more than they are. They crave the SMV imbalance that a dominant Alpha would satisfy, yet through their own ego investments, or due to their inability to lock that Alpha down, must relegate themselves to being the less necessitous person in their LTR.” Insofar as her estimation of the SMV ratio drives her behavior, I wish you… Read more »

DM
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Great article. Only issue that I see is that women wildly overestimate their own SMV. Sassiness, career, independence, masculine energy, and ambition do NOT qualify them for mating. One of the greatest benefits of red pill blogging that I see is helping men identify these women as poor relationship and marriage material (contrary to our cultural conditioning). This site in particular has absolutely saved me from a life of misery, as the focus on SMV and Hypergamy on Rational Male is the best on the net by a long shot. Entering my late 20’s, women are starting to really throw… Read more »

Fred Flange, Ivanovich
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The first rule of acting like the Man is do not talk about your acting like the Man. Which stands to reason. If you’re only talking it, you’re not doing it. This was the lesson I had to learn (unlearn) in order to upgrade myself from Mr. Enlightened Beta, who frankly sounds like every other baffled married schmuck (me included) who luckily stumbled onto Athol’s site, and then to these parts. If I stay super-nice and respectful of her BODY and BOUNDARIES, she’ll read my mind and sex me up by grokking the telepathic message I sent her by way… Read more »

anotheronetakesthepill
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The main problem I see is with this :”Roissy once proposed that the strength and security of any relationship rests in the disparity between each person’s sexual market value.”

It’s not the same your objective SMV and your girlfriend/wife’s SMV as examined by someone neutral than your gf/wife self-perceived SMV.

I’m starting to think that either you take a girl with self-esteem problems or every girl is going to self-inflate her SMV (by means of beta male attention, social media attention whoring, etc) making her hypergamy go wild

anotheronetakesthepill
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Ok … I had not read your post completely when I wrote my comment before. You got everything covered!

Marky Mark
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@DM I completely agree with you man! As a ‘greater beta’ who has (hopefully) ascended into ‘lesser alpha’ territory in my late 20s (I’m 28) it’s hell dealing with these women who have hooked up with a million guys and expect someone to marry them. I had a couple of girls bring it up over the past few years but I know they secretly are trying to take advantage of me. The way things are today… I think you should only marry a woman if you met her in your early twenties and dated her for 5+ years otherwise you… Read more »

Ed Roy
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Rollo Tomassi is no idiot, but sogood is right above, this post shows a complete misunderstanding of the term ‘ratio’. Instead of…

– ‘1:1’, it should read ‘even’
– ‘2:1’, it should read ‘+1’
– ‘3:1’, it should read ‘+2’
– ‘4:1’, it should read ‘+3’

Rollo, if I were you, I’d REPOST THIS ASAP and remove all references to the term ‘ratio’. RATIO IS THE INCORRECT TERM. As ratio is a concept we all learn in high school, this post is HIGHLY EMBARRASSING to an otherwise very smart man.

treylesnorth
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George Zimmerman Treyvon Martin shooting trial has an all women jury

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1378193#bmb=1

Mark Minter
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So you guys in your 50s might be asking, “Rollo, how can get me some of this SMV equality of 1:1 or even better, some of that 2:1 with her on the high side?” “A 55 year old guy should be hooking up with a 34 year old, both by the above graph and as well as by the old ‘half +7’ rule. But all these women in this age bracket all think they should getting someone the same age as them, or millionaires. And usually they have a wealth of other options chasing them around on their Smart Phones.”… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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Be careful, Minty. That girl sounds crazy! wink

Mark Minter
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And I think she’s allow following me around.

Marky Mark
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Minter has the ultimate alpha badboy game!

Marky Mark
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I realized if your a beta don’t get married b/c girl will end up bitter she didn’t get the alpha she REALLY wanted divorce you and try to take your shit… and if your alpha you don’t need marriage to get coochie so either way DONT GET MARRIED!

eon
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One definition of “ratio” is “the relation in degree or number between two things”. The two things here are the units of hotness in the man, and the units of hotness in the woman.

Now the two retards on this thread can go figure out their dumbass ratio.

M Simon
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SMV:

Men can last a lot longer than 70 yrs. And their SMV is as high as their attitude. Well OK it declines a lot. Just not as much as the chart pretends. If you keep your game. Of course run of the mill the chart might be correct.

Mark Flowers
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1. Mark Flowers is a true dedicated Christian but a non denominational and non church going Christian, a praying man upon his knees and he gives all credit to his survival to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as his savoir and protector of him and his loved ones. Mark has to continually break all curses in Jesus Christ’s name, sent by witch craft and the Satanic agenda. 2. Mark Flowers is a fighter, a man that will never bow to any evil corruption, to DEATH. 3. Mark Flowers has had the fatherhood of his children stolen by the masons… Read more »

Immediate
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The ratio thing only seems like a problem if you directly relate a “1 to 10” scale number to it. I don’t think that was exactly the intent, it was more a relational ratio like eon mentions. Didn’t Roissy in his version of the power imbalance decide that a two point gap was the ideal? So if you are an 8 and you want to have a LTR or do serial monogamy then your best bet is a 6 woman. Now, if you really are an 8 male (and some of us can over rate ourselves as bad as women,… Read more »

Immediate
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Everything M3 said for my personal situation. Leaving behind a lifetime of beta torture at the hands of a BPD harpy and now realizing my massively inflated value compared to her is pretty amazing. And I have this site more than any other to thank for opening my eyes properly. I went looking for message boards first and found So Sauve, which eventually led me here and then to browse the other big names. RM remains the best to me though. Now having a girl who lets me lead (and realizing how valuable and actually easy leading is) and finding… Read more »

sogood
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One definition of “ratio” is “the relation in degree or number between two things”. The two things here are the units of hotness in the man, and the units of hotness in the woman. Now the two retards on this thread can go figure out their dumbass ratio. Lol you dumbass, when you express the ratio as two numbers separated by a colon, the “degree of relation” is obtained by diving the first number by the second. Did you pass grade 8 math? Anyway it isn’t really important. It’s just funny because it shows how far Rollo still has to… Read more »

BC
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BC
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Re: ratio…

I believe the word some aspies may be looking for is…

differential

±1 differential in SMV
±2
±3
±unicorn oh whoops i meant ±4

hope that helps kthxbai

Generation 21st Century
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“Rollo Tomassi is no idiot, but sogood is right above, this post shows a complete misunderstanding of the term ‘ratio’. Instead of… – ’1:1′, it should read ‘even’ – ’2:1′, it should read ‘+1′ – ’3:1′, it should read ‘+2′ – ’4:1′, it should read ‘+3′ Rollo, if I were you, I’d REPOST THIS ASAP and remove all references to the term ‘ratio’. RATIO IS THE INCORRECT TERM. As ratio is a concept we all learn in high school, this post is HIGHLY EMBARRASSING to an otherwise very smart man.” “differential ±1 differential in SMV ±2 ±3 ±unicorn oh whoops… Read more »

jamesarr
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I’d move the female peak to left a couple/three years and the male peak to the right a few more.

Kate
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Mark Minter wrote: “And I think she’s always following me around.” I’m just following the leader! Marky Marke wrote: “Minter has the ultimate alpha badboy game!” He is pretty dreamy Now since Mark Minter was so kind as to share the secrets of his success, I thought I should write one for the ladies. “So what you need to do is fucking comment. Make a name for yourself as a comment writer in the Manosphere. And don’t half-step here in your comments. No way. Declare yourself to be the NUMBER 1 MAN SUPPORTER in the internet. Write the most compassionate… Read more »

Immediate
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Immediate
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So Kate you’re banging Mark Minter?!?!?

Adam
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Adam
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PS — this is not math class, nerds.

Ed Roy
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Rollo fucked up on the ‘ratio’ thing and needs to fix it. He looks like someone who does not have a grasp of 9th grade math…

eon
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eon
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“Lol you dumbass, when you express the ratio as two numbers separated by a colon, the “degree of relation” is obtained by diving the first number by the second. Did you pass grade 8 math?” “Rollo fucked up on the ‘ratio’ thing and needs to fix it. He looks like someone who does not have a grasp of 9th grade math…” I really hate having to waste time arguing with aspie fuckwits, but these dweebs have fixated on trying to make Rollo seem dumb, when he is one of the smartest writers around. Okay, listen up, you mentally “special” people:… Read more »

M Simon
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eon
June 24th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

Well it is not an engineering report that is for sure. But the author talks arithmetic differences (plus one) while touting ratios. It is confusing.

I wouldn’t necessarily fix it. Its just a blog post after all. But I’d check my premises better next time.

Me? I do technical writing for a living.

joker
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I guess a way to see the dating process is through SMV differentials: you have to present yourself as +3 to pick her attention among other men, then lower it to +2 if you aim for marriage or LTR. For men interested on short hookups, keeping it on +3 is recommended, as this differential seem to be the better context to dump a woman.

FuriousFerret
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@Adam Shouldn’t we be applauding women bashing nice guys? What better, quicker way is there for men to wake up than for being abused for doing what feminists said to do? They are reaching too far this time. They are cooking the golden goose here. The now want men to simply bow down to their desires and lap up emotional/financial support while at the same time not even letting the beta hope for sex. You dun goofed ladies. You take away even the fantasy and it’s over. Even betas won’t stand for that. A good beta orbiter shepherdess always will… Read more »

eon
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“Well it is not an engineering report that is for sure. But the author talks arithmetic differences (plus one) while touting ratios. It is confusing. I wouldn’t necessarily fix it. Its just a blog post after all. But I’d check my premises better next time.” “Me? I do technical writing for a living.” Congratulations!!!!! So you have heard of a dictionary? Me? I am nine feet tall and my penis is the size of three beer cans stacked one on top of the other. This is neither an engineering report, nor a technical blog post about engineering topics, so using… Read more »

Treize
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+1 @ Eon. People trying to semantically tear down Rollo (and incorrectly too) on such a minor, inconsequential aspect of the post are totally not in the spirit of these posts and reader discussions. We’re all about positive enlightenment to our predicament in this age – this self-indulgent ‘schooling’ is pathetic and completely against the communal ethos here.

Revolg
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Lot of engineering major hater nerds up in here…

Better correct this term ASAP!!! it is an emergency rollo… Some retard might misunderstand a free blog post.

Rollo Tomassi
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My apologies to the STEM demographic aside, try to think of this in terms of cooking instead of algebra; 2 parts of one ingredient to one part of another, etc.

I’ll be sure not to use the term ‘ratio’ in the future, and you also have my promise not to use allegorical references to physics, covalent equations, the periodic table or chaos theory.

That said, I aint rewriting shit.

Mr_Grundy
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Rollo, you don’t have to put such limits on your writing (your reply above, of June 24 11:23 pm). A little extra research is usually all that’s needed to make competent journalistic reference to scientific things, so as to satisfy everyone except a few assburger misfits. If you’re working on a seriously science-based idea, it is easy to solicit advice from qualified people (as long as you keep your inquiries brief) or grad students; I’ve written to a few and they are usually completely mature and helpful. Science, properly done, is one of the ways of truth, after all. Don’t… Read more »

M Simon
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M Simon
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“This whole thing started with a pretentious blowhard trying to puff himself up by tearing down a respected writer, using bullshit, and tangential and inconsequential bullshit, at that.” Well I bow to your superior beer can dick. Maybe you got it confused with your other head. I try to get the technicals right to avoid detracting from the point I wish to make. Given your beer can head (pick one) and superior writing skills I guess being sloppy is of no consequence for you. My editors wouldn’t stand for it. I generally avoid such mistakes. Maybe that is why they… Read more »

M Simon
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M Simon
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“That said, I aint rewriting shit.” Nor should you. BTW I’ll see your chaos theory and raise you a quasi periodicy. I’m fondest of male and female mating connectors. I always like to keep my objective in mind. Even when discussing technical subjects. Ratios are different from differences. Objectively. Assuming a Gaussian distribution (usually not a bad assumption) a 9.5 is likely to be 10X as attractive as an 8.5. And so on. Rankings are a binning system. Bin 1 is probably 1E6X different from bin 10. Maybe more. That said you also see the same thing relative to IQ… Read more »

M Simon
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M Simon
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“except a few assburger misfits.”

I earn a living being an assburger misfit. It pays quite well if you can get the technical details correct.

I pity the normals. But sloppy is the norm. Which is why not being sloppy pays well.

So do you want some guy obsessive about details repairing you auto or would you prefer sloppy?

Rollo Tomassi
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The defense rests.

Bully
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Bully
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I really have no interest in marrying someone that is 1 or 2 points below me – it’s ridiculous on its face. Women are the primary benefactors of marriage and risk far less than a man of their level and yet, they’ll only accept someone HIGHER than them for terms of stability? Where exactly is the benefit for men? I can already STR or serially date 1 to 2 below me. When I bring commitment to the table – which is a sacrifice on my part – what precisely do I get out of doing so? Marriage should be 1:1… Read more »

Ed Roy
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Ed Roy
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The ‘ratio’ issue is not minor or inconsequential…it is highly confusing and undermines what would have otherwise been a typically great Tomassi post. You have to read and re-read the post and train yourself to translate what he’s saying in terms of +1, +2, +3 ‘differentials’…

Immediate
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Immediate
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“Marriage should be 1:1 or even with the woman a point higher. I know hypergamy doesn’t care about what it “should” be, but with more and more men refusing to enter the marriage game, a market correction will have to take place if women want to get married at all. Hypergamy’s hand is forced at the prospect of hitting the wall without suitors.”

Doesn’t matter, this already happens. Women just settle for a submissive mate a couple points below them and then put them through hell while having affairs on the down low.

AP
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AP
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Hello Rollo, I have a question about looks. I think I remember you wrote something in your blog once upon a time but I may be wrong. Here is my question: When it comes to an attractive body vs an attractive face, do females have a preference? In other words, which one do they place higher importance? I have known guys that have fallen in love with a girl just because of the body. And others have fallen in love with one specific facial (like the girl’s eyes). But what about females? Do they behave in the same way? Does… Read more »

Yep It's Me
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Yep It's Me
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OK all I can say is “Fuck Me” – that’s just a general comment on spending my first 50 years wearing the wrong colored glasses and seeing everything from a blue tint. @Mark Minter I like your stuff – and the anger angle is one way to go – keep writing and pulling the good stuff on the free market. I’m just waiting for the Tshirts to come to market with a really cool graphics for “Mark says ‘Pump, Dump, Next’ “. I aspire to be as eloquent as you. @Rollo Fuck it,..Ratio, Parts, Points, Scale – you got your… Read more »

Mark Minter
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@AP

Roissy did a piece on this:

“f a man is presented with a choice between a butterface (ugly face, hot body, everything “but her face”) and a myspace angle (cute face, ugly body), his decision will depend in part on whether he’s down for a short-term fling or if he’s seeking a long-term lover.”

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/05/17/body-men-vs-face-men/

The short term fling will opt for the body.

The man looking for a mate will opt for the face.

I

Mark Minter
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Also I found this while searching for a relevant joke to post in this thread. It’s not really a joke but relevant. THIS APPEARED ON CRAIG’S LIST NY What am I doing wrong? Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York . I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City , so… Read more »

AP
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AP
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@Mark Minter

Thanks for sharing that. It makes sense. But what about the girls? Do they place the same importance to face vs body as we guys do? What makes THEM fall in love?

Yep It's Me
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Yep It's Me
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@AP

I may get flamed for this, but go read Athol Kay’s book – Married Man’s Sex Life Primer (MMSL). He is a niche player in the Red Pill game (I like his stuff, but he (along with a bunch of “men” on his forum) panders to women too much for my taste on his site). You should be able to figure out the “what happens” and then figure out “how to do it”

Kate
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Kate
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AP: Maybe I can help with your question? Men are looks oriented and women are personality (dominance) oriented. That is why each side faces consternation in accepting that for men personality is not that important and for women looks are not that important. I have cared for short men, tall men, average height men. Bald men, short-haired men, long-haired men. Very fit, somewhat fit, not really that fit. Never extremely unfit or very slim. The kind of “look” that is important to women is one of protection and providership. As far as face versus body, I feel body is more… Read more »

Kate
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Kate
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Actually, Immediate, I’m at culinary bootcamp brushing up on my cooking before the big bang smile Evidently, my future life is going to consist of baking bread and wearing lingerie. Oh, its so hard to be a woman! smile

AP
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AP
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@Kate… hey, thanks for your sincere opinions. Along the lines of the “look” that represents protection to a female, what if I guy has a well built body through training,but his face is a bit on the feminine side (he’s always looked less manly), that is, no strong jjawline, no prominent brow ridgem etc? And let’s say there is a guy who is a bit out of shape but his face is more manly with more prominent features (he’s always looked more manly after adolescence)? I;m gussing the face does too speak out “protection” in a way. Would the body… Read more »

optometrybythebay
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ps hope your bootcamp goes great… learn how do pastas too if you can.

Kate
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Kate
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AP: You’re welcome:) Tough question. How do these men treat me? What do they talk about? I am thinking of two men: one is a beefcake trainer who is a bit of a stereotype “player,” and the other is far less fit but has strong facial features. The trainer has sort of made his body a work of art, but it doesn’t do much for me. The other makes me laugh and listens to my little troubles, is authoritative and I delight in teasing him mercilessly. The second one I consider far more “attractive.” ps: Thanks I learned to make… Read more »

AP
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AP
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@Kate. Got your point.

In my search for more info, I found this info. Check this out if you have a chance. I thought it was very interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2099804/Forget-muscles-men-healthy-skin-attractive.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2780675/

Spatzle heh? You go girl

as for me…. I am gonna go buy the biggest bag of carrots I can find! lol

Kate
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Kate
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Interesting. Haha. Good luck out there!

Zattazar
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Zattazar
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“A woman must find ways to cope with an ever decaying SMV once she reaches her SMV peak and begins her decline towards the Wall”

Does she hit The Wall at age 30 or 35?

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[…] Women are, in their early 20′s, at their highest sexual mating value. If she isn’t leveraging that to get herself the highest value man she can, later on she will […]

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[…] social awareness, physical development, etc. Justin looks like a teenage boy, nowhere near his SMV prime. He reminds me of high school days. Selena looks like a woman in her SMV […]

Aristotle
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Aristotle
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Two suggestions.

Start an email list for notification upon release of your book.

Write the book.

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[…] English. She’s also very socially switched on – she’d even figured out the whole SMV peak vs age disparity of men vs women all by herself (and had been trying futilely to make her female friends, pissing away their youth, […]

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[…] From the Rational Male: http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/20/smv-ratios-attachment/ […]

Leo
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Leo
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Well , I am 27 , I always looked to this question without cinism , and therefore always was ruthless criticized by most of people whom I discussed the topic. I Must say I agree completely with the women chart… However… The men’s Value Chart doesn’t seem accurate… I believe men’s value reach top at 31-32 and them falls way quicker than that… Several 20 year old women set um 30 as the top age they would date a man… A 40 year old man , FOR SURE , wont have advantage over mid 20s …. ask any 40 yearold… Read more »

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[…] that familiarity. Strong Frame control is the lynchpin to a good relationship, ensuring that your SMV is above that of your wife or LTR, and knowing the power this has can keep an Alpha impression […]

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[…] of her life. The most secure, monogamous attachments women will make are with Men they perceive are 1 to 2 degrees above what she perceives is her own relative […]

RedPiller
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RedPiller
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You graph is incorrect, sir. Women hit the wall right after 23. That is why most alpha men reject 24 year old females

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[…] for a better-than-market optimization. Thus the ideal ‘balance’ is one where there is a greater than 1-2 SMV degree difference between that of a man and the women he spins as plates or considers to become intimate with in the […]

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[…] | Final Exam – Navigating the SMP & SMV Ratios & Attachment | therationalmale.com […]

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[…] Tomassi of TheRationalMale The Preventative Medicine Series – Part I Part II Part III Part IV SMV Ratios & Attachment – Sexual Marketplace Landscape Final Exam – Navigating the […]

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[…] the sexual marketplace is a different […]

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[…] My SO pointed out this article to me a while ago. I do not necessarily agree with all the points (it assumes static, not dynamic, evaluation data points), but it illustrates your point. Sexual Marketplace Value […]

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[…] you are a man reading this, try to raise as much your sexual market value as possible. This will make you more desirable to the ladies and as long as you have the means […]

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[…] I also understand that the reverse can and does apply. I’m also aware that when a man’s SMV exceeds a woman’s it places her into a similar position to that of the Beta men I’ve just […]

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[…] previously gone into the dynamics that play out between men and women with regard to perceived SMV of a partner versus the other partner’s self-perception of their own SMV and how this determines secure vs. insecure attachment. This post was more of an outline of […]

John Cook
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John Cook
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I’m sure, somewhere in the comments it’s been mentioned already, but I couldn’t help noticing the almost exact match of the male/female SMV curves over a life time if one just gets into a LTR with a woman 13/14 years younger than yourself. It seems to fit too with other primary bonding instincts and avoids the Alpha Widow thing if girls married in their late teens to men in their early thirties… And low-and-behold – that’s just what was normal before they fuked it up.

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[…] One of the foundational ideas of Red Pill awareness from the earliest PUA years has been the 80/20 concept – 80% of women want to have sex and / or pair off with the top 20% of men. This has been a fast and loosely defined in terms of subjective sexual market value (SMV) between men and women and the ratio of disparity between those valuations. […]

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The Talk |
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[…] the competition anxiety that comes with making an emotional investment in a man she perceives is 1-2 steps above her own sexual market value. A passive form of Dread almost certainly plays a role in the prompt to formalize an LTR, however, […]

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[…] Noting Rollo Tomassi’s excellent analysis on the sexual market value of men and women, I propose, yes. From his work, he concludes that a man’s sexual (and in general his life force) peak is around age forty. It climbs slowly but surely from his teen years to this point. With proper diet and exercise, the time after forty plateaus and men enjoy decades on top of the food chain. […]

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[…] never seeks its own level, but always looks for a better-than deserved SMV comparison. In terms of SMV ratios-to-attachment Deep Conversion takes place somewhere between a 2:1 to 3:1 […]

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[…] never seeks its own level, but always looks for a better-than deserved SMV comparison. In terms of SMV ratios-to-attachment Deep Conversion takes place somewhere between a 2:1 to 3:1 […]

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[…] The trick, therefore, in the success of her endeavour, is to convince a male who is several points higher than her on the Sexual Market Place, that he is actually the same level or lower, than her, […]

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[…] explore the fundamentals of intimate attachments and how SMV status influences it here. That article might be worth reviewing because in it is a lesson about Hypergamy. Again, compare […]

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[…] of her hindbrain acknowledgement of that man’s SMV. I also explored this in detail in SMV Ratios & Attachment. The greater the disparity in SMV between a couple the more or less likely a woman is to partially […]

Tom
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Tom
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@John Cook: > I couldn’t help noticing the almost exact match of the male/female SMV curves over a life time if one just gets into a LTR with a woman 13/14 years younger than yourself. I think this is a hardwired, biological thing. I have seen academic studies (at least, ones done with no political correctness agenda) that find the ideal age paring for men is with a woman anywhere from 12-15 years younger. Let’s just average it out to 14 years. Interested readers may find this article very interesting. It is the best indication I’ve seen that there is… Read more »

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[…] logic of women’s sexual strategy would also suggest that if a woman perceives her mate to be 1-2 steps in SMV above herself she would be less (if at all) inclined to initiate a breakup with a guy she sees as Alpha. Thus, the […]

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