Blue Pill Alphas

beta-white-knight-101_o_5320043

A comment from Softek gets us started today:

My friend was telling me the other night how seeing multiple women “isn’t worth it.”

I’ve heard that more than once from more than one of my friends.

And how “living with the guilt and shame” and “hating themselves” was destroying their lives….

Very hard schema to break out of when it’s been imprinted on you. My own father self-proclaims to be “in favor of the damsels in distress,” including his recent, unquestionable defense of my friend’s mom, who divorced his dad after 35 years of marriage.

My dad didn’t even question her motives for a second and after she spent the evening hanging out with my mom and him, and told them the supposed “real” reasons she got a divorce, my dad automatically cut contact with the guy and again proclaimed his belief that men should protect all “damsels in distress.”

He’s even taken shots at me when my girlfriend’s been over, clearly siding with her and telling her things like “Keep him in line” and “Straighten him out” and calling me an idiot and scolding me if I don’t pull her chair out for her or put her coat on for her when she stands up.

No doubt, my self sabotaging of a clear opening for a hookup with an HB8 23 year old has been influenced by all of this. I didn’t realize how Beta I was until I actually got into a relationship.

I didn’t even know I HAD these programs because I was incel before, and had a couple one night stands that never developed into anything more. I also didn’t even know my DAD had these programs until he started doing shit like actually scolding me in front of my girlfriend and instructing her to “train me” and things like that.

To be honest I was kind of in shock that my own father would think like that. It felt like he was turning on me and it pissed me off. Even in a small way, to let his Blue Pill conditioning get in the way of his relationship with his own son — that really got to me, and not in a good way. I felt like my dad is supposed to be on my side, and to see him treating her better than he treats me and having conversations with her and helping her work out her finances and giving her career advice and all that while he won’t even give me the time of day….

….simply, it’s eye-opening. It’s tough to truly go Red Pill when everyone around you, including your own father/family members/friends are Blue Pill, and especially when they’re an active, regular part of your life, not just a figment of your imagination.

But there is no other way.

Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Softek’s father’s reflexive responses are endemic of men who are Alpha White Knights. Their reactions are behaviorally Alpha, but their reasoning is founded in their investments in Blue Pill conditioning. The usual schema revolve around an attempt to display higher value by identifying with and qualifying for women whom they presuppose have default authority and correctness above men in general.

This then manifests as an exaggerated AMOGing of any guy who would not affirm his investments in that Blue Pill ego-investment. So you get a guy who blusters like Softek’s Dad at Red Pill awareness – it’s both an opportunity to prove value as a White Knight and a resistance against any truths that would challenge his Blue Pill ego.

In my own life I’ve known several men who anyone in the ‘sphere would objectively call Alpha. Their default is to action, dominance, authority and control of whatever life puts in front of them. They handle their shit, they own their business ventures, they have all the Dark Triad traits you might expect from a guy like this – but put them in a social setting with a girl and they go as Beta as any Blue Pill guy you’ll ever know. Their Blue Pill conditioning predisposes them to compartmentalize this aspect of their personality to effectively put their dominant personality to the use of the Feminine Imperative.

Dangerous White Knights

Maybe I’m the only guy who watched both seasons of Daredevil on Netflix, but if you watch the first season where they go into the origin and character of Wilson Fisk (Kingpin) this is exactly the type of guy I’m talking about. Wildly Alpha, wildly unstable, but still in control of his empire. Put a woman in his life and he transitions all of that Alpha energy to essentially worshiping that woman. In fact, this prioritizing of women above his own interests is the motivation for his empire building. These are the Alpha White Knights who channel that Alpha energy to making his Blue Pill idealisms a reality for any woman who fits his ideal.

And when that Blue Pill ideal reveals itself to be a fantasy – or God forbid, a Red Pill aware guy should take this fantasy away from him intentionally or not – you will see him self destruct, and likely take either that woman, that Red Pill guy, or both along with him.

That’s one type of Blue Pill Alpha. Another is the guy who is Alpha in one context, but Beta in another. These are the guys I describe when I talk about my military friends who’ve faced live ammo being fired at them by people intent on killing them who hold up like nails and get their job done while commanding other men. Put them in a domestic situation or a position where they have to fall back on their Blue Pill conditioning in dealing with women and they’ll defer automatically to the Frame of their wives without a thought. When their wives up and leave them, these are some of the first men to swallow a bullet by their own hand.

Again, this is an Alpha who’s never been awakened to his Blue Pill conditioning. Say even one marginally critical word about women in general and they’re the first in line to kick your ass. But they’re also the most likely to self destruct when their Blue Pill idealism is challenged or crushed.

A lot gets made about the status of ‘Paper Alphas’, but I’m beginning to think term is a bit in error. I’m dropping this here today because I think there’s a misunderstanding about how Alpha energy is channeled with respect to a guy being Red Pill aware, and a guy who is still plugged into the feminine-primary Matrix and at the mercy of how women (and other men) will exploit his Blue Pill ego-investments. In the manosphere we tend to conflate Alpha with Red Pill, but as I always say, Alpha is a mindset and not representative of whether that man is in fact ‘woke’ to his conditions and manipulations.

When I watched how the Marvel writers handled the character of Wilson Fisk I got chills because I have personally counseled Blue Pill, but predominantly Alpha, guys who’ve stabbed the new boyfriends of their ex-girlfriends because he was perceived as the catalyst to the destruction of his Blue Pill ideal – union with his ONEitis girlfriend.

I’m emphasizing this because I think it’s important for Red Pill aware men to understand the dangers of being perceived as the antithesis of these men’s ego-investments in Blue Pill idealism. This may take the form of him just despising you for revealing uncomfortable truths to him with your own presence and lifestyle, or it may be him pinning his failures to consolidate his Blue Pill ideals to you and wanting to eliminate both you and the truth you represent.

I’m sorry if this is a bit sobering, but it needs to be said. As most readers know, I consider Alpha and Beta abstract terms; they are placeholders for concepts, thus, it is entirely possible for a largely Alpha man to be thoroughly invested in his Blue Pill conditioning. Likewise, it is also possible for more Beta men to be some of the most Red Pill aware men you’re likely to meet. It’s when a Beta man is ego-invested in the Blue Pill that he’s most to be pitied, while a Red Pill aware Alpha is likely to be the most celebrated. But that’s not to say the Red Pill and Alpha, or the Blue Pill and Beta are mutually exclusive concepts.

Is Provisioning Inherently a Characteristic of a Beta Mindset?

In this week’s post the proposition came up that any provisioning was inherently a Beta trait. I’ve read this before and not just on my blog, but also coming from both the MGTOW and the PUA sides of the fence. The idea is that any form of monogamy and/or provisioning for an LTR girlfriend (and I would count a live-in arrangement as provisioning), a wife and any kids (prospectively) is itself evidence of a Beta mindset.

I think the problem with this presumption rests in defining what the act of provisioning means both an Alpha and a Beta mindset. For both, this depends on their approach to their primary sexual strategies and reconciling it with the eventual necessity of his own parental investment in raising children, and/or maintaining relational Frame (or not) within a monogamy that at least promotes the wellbeing of any children.

As a reference here, I’m going to link Myth of the Good Guy to give a bit of perspective in this.

While it’s true that lower SMV men generally, necessarily, opt for a sexual strategy of primary investment in one mate (via provisioning) and higher SMV men can afford a sexual strategy of lower investment while seeking more sexual opportunities, those strategies are not necessarily reflective of each man’s mindset. As I mentioned in the beginning here, it is entirely possible for a subjectively Alpha man to subscribe to a Blue Pill conditioned mindset and vice versa for Beta men becoming Red Pill aware.

So yes, provisioning can be Beta if that provisioning (and what it took to achieve it) is the result of an effort to secure the sustained sexual interests of a single woman, as motivated by his perceived necessity to invest himself as I mentioned above for a low SMV man. However, if you have a high SMV guy who’s provisioning capacity is the byproduct of his Alpha mindset (or nature if you prefer) and not the result of his sexual strategy to build it to invest in any single woman, is that guy’s provisioning inherently a Beta characteristic?

We’ve had an interesting discussion about this in the last comment thread, and In the interests of full disclosure here, I’m still on the fence about this concept. I’ll have a forthcoming post about mindset soon.

Provisioning is certainly a value added aspect to a guy who a woman sees as an Alpha sex prospect already, and not a necessary a prerequisite for fucking him, but it’s not a disadvantage (being Beta) if that Alpha guy also has means, affluence, status, looks, etc. That said, and I’ve related this before, some of the most memorable sex experiences I’ve ever had were when I was an unemployed semi-pro musician in the late 80s-early 90s with almost zero means, but was somehow able to bang over 40 women then.

Provisioning is not a prerequisite for any man with Game, but is it inherently Beta? Possibly, when a guy has the Blue Pill mindset that makes him believe in the Relational Equity fallacy and he subscribes to the Blue Pill conditioned idea that he’s inherently lower SMV than ANY woman (like Softek’s Dad), thus he must improve his odds of successfully breeding by being a “good provider”. And as I, and anyone in the manosphere, will relate this old books providerhood is fast becoming an obsolete sexual strategy for Beta men.

This is, I think, the hesitation that most guys wanting to avoid the stink of ‘Beta Provider’ will argue for. But is a nominally Alpha guy, who has excess means and resources being “Beta” by providing for his wife & family? If that man’s dominant personality is ‘Alpha’ does this predispose women (or his wife) to rationalize his provisioning as an Alpha trait, or is it just an endearing (positive), comforting Beta trait / behavior that solidifies her attraction (if not arousal) to him?

I don’t think that the act of provisioning itself is inherently Beta or Alpha, rather it’s the mindset and status of that guy that makes it so. What do we call a an Alpha with ample means who refuses to adequately provide for his wife and/or kids? What do we call a Beta who’s based his life and marriage on his capacity to provide once he’s lost his job? Why do women statistically look down on men who don’t provide in equal or greater measure to their own contributions? Despite all the equalist boilerplate beliefs to the contrary, why do women feel little or no attraction to a non-provisioning house-husband? If provisioning were a net Beta trait why is its absence a source of decreased attraction for men?

I should also add that this perception of whether a man is Alpha or Beta in his provisioning is subjective to whatever phase of maturity a woman find herself in, and is modified by her own necessitousness – which, as has been argued in the ‘sphere ad infinitum, has become increasingly less dependent on men. It’s no coincidence that back in the early 90s for me, the women I was banging were largely girls in their SMV peak years (21-24) or they we’re the occasional cougars of the time who were already divorced and still reasonably attractive enough to pass the boner test for me. My capacity to provision for either of these demographic of women made little difference to my sex appeal, but for different reasons.

Roissy even covers this aspect of women’s sexual prioritization in The Difficulty of Gaming Women by Age Bracket:

31 to 34 year olds

In some ways, women in the 31-34 age range are the toughest broads to game. (By “toughest”, it is meant “most time consuming”.) It’s counterintuitive, yes, but there are factors at work besides her declining beauty which mitigate against the easy, quick lay. For one, it is obviously harder to meet single 31-34 year old women than it is to meet single younger women. Marriage is still a pussy-limiting force to contend with for the inveterate womanizer, but Chateau apprentices are hard at work battling the scourge of mating market disturbances caused by the grinding and churning of the marriage machine.

But the bigger reason 31-34 year olds are harder to game than any other age group of women has to do with the wicked nexus of entitlement and self-preservation that occurs at this age in women. When you combine a disproportionate sense of entitlement fueled by years of feminism, steady paychecks and promotions, and cheerleading gay boyfriends with suspicions of every man’s motives and a terrible anxiety of being used for a sexual fling sans marriage proposal, you get a venom-spitting malevolent demoness on guard against anything she might perceive as less than total subjugation to her craving for incessant flattery and princess pedestaling.

Note that Chateau guests aren’t necessarily complaining. A harder-to-game 33 year old is kind of like getting bumped down from a Honda Civic rental but driving off the lot with the consolation prize of a Ferrari.

Listen to any man who is good with women and they will tell you the same thing:

“I have an easier time bedding and dating 23 year olds than I do 33 year olds.”

While I do concur with the assessment about women’s exaggerated sense of entitlement, I would also argue that this difficulty is a result of women’s prioritizing long-term security (emotional and provisional) as part of their sexual strategy reprioritizations that come in the wake of their Epiphany Phase. Ergo, this would explain the ease in gaming women pre and post Epiphany Phase. Provisioning and long term security are low sexual priorities for these demographics of women.

But does that make a capacity for provisioning inherently a Beta trait? I think it’s easy to misconstrue that capacity as Beta, because provisioning is a high-value attribute that is expected from Beta men according to their own sexual strategy. Provisioning is associated with Betas because it is integral to their sexual strategy, and also part of the Blue Pill plan for which women are hoping to fulfill at a point in their maturity when they are subjectively at their most necessitous.

What do you think?

731 comments

  1. Surgeons are legally “Captian of the Ship”, realize this and act accordingly: ordering people around, demanding fealty to their eccentricity, some macho to the extreme (One demands every one in OR recite a little chant at the end of his procedures). They are the smartest guys in every room they walk.

    When pressed to deal with a RP-aware colleague, the’ll bluster. They won’t even address RP statements contrarian to their opinions; They’re too scared to seem stupid publicly and will try to trash another’s career as retribution. They ain’t got the chops toe-to-toe.

    They’ll brook no dissent and demand their nonsensical WKing and opinions (not related to medicine) be treated as gospel. They’re the best at neurosurgery, of course. Thus, they assume they’re the best at everything.

    Publicly, outside their wheelhouse, the most macho stud surgeon is a shrinking violent sperg.

    With their wives…oh Lord…are physicians whipped, checked out, living on provisioning.

  2. I have met so many military officers – combat veterans, leaders, men who run giant organizations – who are the most nauseating Blue Pill White Knights you ever met in your life. It’s baffling. Probably comes from misguided concepts of honor and chivalry (which are hilariously irrelevant now that women are allowed and encouraged to be in the combat arms).

  3. As an oversimplified conclusion, I’ve come to view provisioning similarly to what seems implicit within your well articulated musings within this article. Provisioning is a beta trait when done to gain a woman’s approval, including when it’s done specifically to entice her toward a sexual interaction. Even if the intended end result is attained, she will only resent and enslave him in a circle of pay to play, never truly respecting him as a man. On the other hand, provisioning is alpha (or at least neutral) when a man has already earned the respect and approval of a woman by his red pill mindset/behavior and is doing it as a means of asserting his ability to provide for those that are loyal to him.

  4. LOL! That simp presumes much for speaking on behalf of men. I’ll at least give him credit for having enough T to get a single pimple.

  5. Quite correct.

    Where I live in probably the most affluent outer London suburb the place is awash with Bentleys, Ferraris and CEO’s.

    Some are utter creeps, however a lot are not and would have a serious go at kicking your arse if you tried it on. To get to this level men need a hard “bastard edge”.

    The very vast majority however turn into simpering pussies when faced with ‘any’ woman.

    More than once I’ve sat in a local restaurant with my son overhearing some shrew tearing a strip off her ‘man’ and every time I think “Christ mate, it’s got to be worth half your net writhing to get rid of that bitch”.

  6. Up at the top here I’ll blow things up by suggesting that Beta-or-VHS male provisioning, as it is being discussed here, is going to become more and more a wild card in the years ahead. To the point where it may make this debate complicated, if not pointless.

    Such as: as young men choose the soft MGTOW/”grasseater” life style, provisioning simply won’t be possible in the way Blue Pill men would understand it and as Epiphany Phase women say they want. Men won’t be trying to gather the resources with which to provision, beyond the buying of a drink or a dinner.

    On the other hand, the whole cam-girl/sugar daddy/sugar baby thing puts provisioning in a much more overt “commercial exchange” context: pay my rent I’ll blow you, or at least give you a girl friend experience so you’ll feel better about your self and have an escort on your arm at the firm party.

    Or: assume Blue Pill SNAG’s try to obey their conditioning and seek to be good providers, they will be unattractive to, and unwanted by, the Lean Forward brigade of Strong Independent Wymyn. Who have their own money and don’t need you – at least for a few more years.

    Even if our Blue Pill SNAG’s can overcome that hurdle, and our GoGrrl is willing to accept the Boring Boy’s provisioning, that provisioning ability could be fungible at best: Will the job last? If their job moves to Boise, will the pLTR survive? And in any case, dual incomes are a survival must, the Churchian ideal of the man breadwinner to the homemaker wife is OVER. Sorry, but that’s just WHAT IS. In this sense, provisioning is as much contributing to the pot as anything else, not being the sole source of sustenance.

    My point being: the debate over provisioning and mindset, important though it is, needs also to take into account whether provisioning as we know it will even MATTER if it continues to exist.

  7. “On the other hand, provisioning is alpha (or at least neutral) when a man has already earned the respect and approval of a woman by his red pill mindset/behavior and is doing it as a means of asserting his ability to provide for those that are loyal to him.”

    Generally women will continually fitness test their men, be they high-provisioning RP, PP, BP. RP affords a chance to maintain frame and extract our merited pound of flesh.

    FR

    Wife gossips at me for 40″ at the German pub.

    At piano lesson waiting for kids. Wife tells me to move the car ‘cuz it should be elsewhere.

    Nope, I’m staying put for a few more minutes.

    She explains why I need to move, on and on.

    I lean over, start kissing her cheek, she says, “No kisses until you move the car.”

    Me: I’d rather do without.

    I chill and scroll headlines til kids come, drive home, she’s sulky silent. I’m silent, non-plussed.

    Drop her off, take another to jiu-jitsu, then off to another bar for 30″. She texts me twice, calls once. It kicks to message.

    Get home, she sulky, wants to talk, calls me rude, and mean. I grab her hand, bring downstairs, crack two beer, she smiles, attempts to continue with her whining, I take her to the dance floor and put in Just Dance 2014 and we get down for an hour. She’s completely wet sweaty by the time we’re done.

    Her: I’m so wet and I’m not drunk. (Insert horny talk here).

    The rest of the evening goes formulaicly. Fall asleep about 11:30. Once again in morning.

  8. Rollo, you touch on a topic I’ve been wondering about. I’ve met red-pill alphas who use blue pill material as a very effective form of AMOGing. Any thoughts on how to deal with it? When I say red pill, I mean, they KNOW the nature of women, they exploit it… but when AMOGing they use exactly the blue pill stuff you mention here. I know all is fair in love and war, but this type of hypocrisy is really aggravating. I believe a lot of “blue pill alphas” do know the nature of women; they just mouth blue pill platitudes to fit in, and also as a n effective form of AMOGing.

  9. I think you’re looking at “provisioning potential” the wrong way. It is often considered a beta trait, but why? Just because it won’t make women want to fuck you? Don’t misunderstand, I agree that money will not create genuine sexual desire in a woman (nor will lack of money kill sexual desire, as in your band days example). To me, it is a true neutral as an SMV metric.

    In the hands of a beta, provisioning ability is often a central focus of his game, and winds up with him married to a woman who doesn’t want to fuck him. To an Alpha a woman already wants to fuck, provisioning is a value-added bonus in that it represents that “this dude is hot AND obviously has his shit together”. It operates as an additional attraction factor for the Alpha.

    Now, for guys looking for relationships, provisioning ability becomes more important (increases your relationship market value or RMV). Yes, a woman may want to fuck a broke guy, and younger chicks may even stay in relationships with one, but a decent woman with a brain wouldn’t stay long term with a penniless leech – and if she would, is she really a high value woman? And is it really beta for a dominant, “hawt” masculine make to do a bang-up job raising his children? Isn’t it Alpha to not only reproduce, but to ensure your offspring has the greatest shot of surviving to ultimately pass your genes further along? Isn’t it Alpha to be the dauntless captain of the domestic ship, in addition to being the captain of your business empire? I posit it is.

    Tl;dr – provisioning ability is a neutral trait that can be used by betas for beta game, alphas as part of who they are, and alphas as part of increasing RMV.

  10. @rollo

    just gonna repost this because my prediction came true

    ‘lol as it stands right now, your representation of the PUA side on this whole issue (if you’re going to talk about it in this article/post) has a high, high probability of being a misrepresentation.

    you keep characterizing our side as ‘mindset is irrelevant’ or some other such nonsense. it is not.

    mindset makes executing the program easier; i.e. a program with > alpha traits than beta traits.

    but the actions themselves are either alpha or beta.

    I don’t buy this. Everything most definitely does not start from a neutral perception. Brad Pitt or Tom Brady bringing a girl flowers doesn’t begin from a neutral perception.

    yes, social conditioning has people make assumptions about you based on how you look, from the get-go. (this is why we say looks don’t matter because looks, divorced from social conditioning, don’t in and of themselves matter)

    from that impression, they form an image of where you fall on alpha/beta continuum.

    then, you can simply alter that impression by taking alpha actions, or acting with enough alpha traits to tip the balance more in favor of alpha from that initial assumption.

    it ultimately comes down to YOUR DEMONSTRATED TRAITS.

    Yup… it is not the actions of themselves… The beta “mindset” is one beset by fear. Starting with the fear that they are not enough…

    no, it is the actions.

    your whole shit about ‘buying her a drink in a forceful/non-hesitant way’ vs ‘buying her a drink in a hesitant’ way is just unknowingly missing other alpha and beta traits.

    alpha = decisive action
    beta = hesitant action

    buying a drink + without hesitation = beta trait + alpha trait
    buying a drink + with awkward hesitation = beta trait + beta trait

    the first one would leave a more OVERALL alpha impression.

    but it did not convert an alpha trait into a beta trait.

    so what does mindset do?
    where does that come in?

    welp, it’s what makes executing those alpha actions easier (or more difficult).
    so it’s relevant, but it does not make beta traits into alpha traits.

    like lol.

    the “arbiter” “DPA” stuff is just woo-woo that is impossible to nail down with any objective formulation and is vulnerable to rationalizing plainly beta (or worse) behavior as alpha. like a dude sucking a dude off in front of a chick and letting the dude blast on his face is NOT GOING TO MAKE A CHICK MORE ATTRACTED, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PERCEIVED AS ALPHA, I don’t care if the dicksucker says ‘yeah i’m hetereo, but i TRULY BELIEVE that sucking a guy off and letting him blast on your face is the ultimate showcase of my manly ability to completely destroy another dude’s soul’’

  11. I was very lucky. My Dad was Alpha. He didn’t know how to teach it (I learned it from my 1st GF in ’62) but he wanted me banging as many girls as I could. At least until I “settled down”.

    He was always giving Mom little negs. “Did you see her tits?” was one of his favorites. BTW Mom had a very nice pair.

    I didn’t figure all that out til much later. But I was on the way in ’62.

    Just gave the OL a big neg. She thanked me for getting her wet.

  12. You’re Alpha if women in general fuck you for who you are sexually and Beta if they fuck you to acquire what you have non sexually.

    It’s really that simple.

    Knowing the nature of women and sexual dynamics doesn’t necessarily mean you know what it takes to be viewed by women as an Alpha.

    And being dominant with women is the only criteria for what makes an Alpha. “A blue bill Alpha” as you call it is simply a dominant man who is Beta

    Being a leader of men and a warrior and other “manly” traits doesn’t mean you will tag pussy. Just like many Alphas who do never fought in wars or lead shit in their lives.

    Attraction is not arousal

  13. I’m of the opinion that Softek’s dad acted the way he did towards the girlfriend because he wanted to fuck her. So there you have it, Softek, your dad was willing to throw you under the bus and white knight for her to cock block you.

  14. “Being a leader of men and a warrior and other “manly” traits doesn’t mean you will tag pussy.”

    And tagging pussy is the definition of alpha, if you have defined it that way.

    “And being dominant with women is the only criteria for what makes an Alpha.”

    Which is hard to do if some other guy has just knocked your head clean off your shoulders.

    I advise caution about self-serving definitions that only work in the mall food court.

  15. Just gave the OL a big neg.

    For newbies, negs are humorous mild insults to be delivered ONLY to girls with high self-esteem…especially about their looks. Delivering a neg to a girl with low self-esteem will likely get you the Cold Shoulder and maybe start her tear fountain flowing.

  16. You have to be careful teasing a woman about her looks…get her to question her accessories (purse, shoes)…something she can change…NOT her nose, mouth, ears, hair, etc.

  17. “The usual schema revolve around an attempt to display higher value by identifying with and qualifying for women whom they presuppose have default authority and correctness above men in general.”

    Agree with most of what you’re saying in the OP, but this description of Softeks Dad needs a little nuance. There are a lot of Alphas that “qualify” by “deference” because they believe women are smaller, weaker, dumber and as a man you give them a break. Not necessarily for future sex. A little self deprecating pandering never hurt anyone, right? Softeks Dad can AMOG Softek to a newly woman because, who cares about men. However, He would never do that for his son in a group of men because he needs to build a man.

    From everything Softie has said I agree his Dad is BP. Just saying there are other interpretations of that behavior.

    Or maybe Softeks Dad is just a BP dick that can’t cut his son a break.

  18. Re Provisioning;
    I personally don’t do it because I value my autonomy and don’t want to live with a woman again.

    If a man wants to do it and it is easily accomplished because he is successful due to his natural abilities and character traits, then I see no reason to label it as Beta as long as it does not form part of his sexual strategy ( he wants his kids/wife to live well as they are his pack, not out of fear of losing “love” or sexual access).

    The only provisioning I indulge is paying for
    Drinks in bars and the occasional trip.
    I’m aware some red pill men would consider this Beta.

    In my case I disagree because of my intent, at this point in my life I consider women for entertainment purposes only and as such I’m consuming their main asset ( their SMV) for my own pleasure and entertainment without any intention of providing commitment.

    I as a man can always ( health permitting) squire more resources, women’s SMV window is much shorter and when it’s spent it’s gone, forever.

    For that reason I see indirectly paying for my entertainment ( drinks, trips the occasional small gift) to be a fair exchange for their spending some of their “currency” on me.

  19. Nobody is going to accuse Trump of being blue pill and yet he is a provisioner to his wife and family, (in fact many people around him).

    I think a red pill aware alpha acts as a provisioner within his own frame. As you always say Rollo, the golden rule of relationships is that there is a power balance and one side will always have more power over the other. The red pill provisioner in this case provides for his wife and family but he retains the power balance while doing so. He provides on his own terms. His wife will never disrespect him in public by berating him in a restaurant as an earlier example from another commenter. She just wouldn’t dare, not from dread at losing the provisioning he provides but from dread at losing him.

    This of course must be done from the beginning of the relationship as it is not possible to be a provider while suffering a power imbalance against you and then try to turn things around later on when you have realized your mistake.

  20. Have a great job. Graduated top of my class. Make 200K per year and have for many, many years. Will be retiring with lots of money at a very early age. Have zero interest in marriage. Have zero interest in ‘relationshits’. Kids? No F’n way. Don’t want to live with a woman – cause been there – done that – never again. For me to have any interest whatsoever in a woman – she’d have to really, really ‘serve me’. Couldn’t care less if that woman ever appears. Have many, many interests that are far more interesting than what the vast majority of women have to offer. Can take care of myself just fine. Don’t give a rat’s @SS what women think of me. Don’t give a rat’s @SS what other men think of me. Life is just too good to worry about women and all of the headaches women bring.

    Serve me or be gone, woman. You offer nothing more than a masturbation hole – and I can take care of that on my own with no help from a woman. Is that ‘alpha’? I couldn’t’ possibly care less. I’m free and I’m happy. And that – folks – is all that matters.

  21. @Rollo

    Remove the confusing “alpha” and “beta” place-holders and you’ve got your answer:

    The capacity and willingness to provide is not a sexually attractive trait.

    However, because of the sexual exclusivity these entail, these are traits mostly displayed by low SMV men looking to secure ONE female.

    This lack of options is interpreted as a lack of power by the woman, who can then confidently use sex as her bargain chip to secure increasingly more providing.

    A man may be willing to provide, not as an obligation due to his low SMV, but as a personal choice (wanting kids, stability, nurturing, etc.), with either side pussy (non-exclusivity) or with the full awareness that he can walk away at any time to find new pussy (exclusivity). This is still not a sexually attractive trait; it may very well encourage the woman to invest more in the relationship; and his willingness to walk away may reduce significantly her attempts at manipulating him.

    In other words, to your question “Is the capacity/willingness to provide inherently a Beta trait?”, the answer is it depends on what you mean by Beta.

    If “Beta” is the mindset of low SMV men, then NO. High SMV men may want to settle and provide.

    If “Beta” is the side of the sexual strategy of women that is about finding a provider to feel safe, then by definition YES.

  22. @Rollo
    “I’m sorry if this is a bit sobering, but it needs to be said.”

    Nightclubs will be full of beta uprisings one day, shootin up the alphas who get laid. VR porn better hurt up and sedate ’em or we’re fucked.

    “In this week’s post the proposition came up that any provisioning was inherently a Beta trait. I’ve read this before and not just on my blog, but also coming from both the MGTOW and the PUA sides of the fence. The idea is that any form of monogamy and/or provisioning for an LTR girlfriend (and I would count a live-in arrangement as provisioning), a wife and any kids (prospectively) is itself evidence of a Beta mindset.”

    No, see you did it again lol You started out great, with the ACTION being separate from the MAN, and then at the end you combined them. That’s why there’s this disconnect, ’cause you guys keep doing this.

    We are saying “this behavior is a Beta net negative behavior” and you are interpreting that as “this behavior MEANS THAT GUY IS A BETA CHODE IDIOT LOSER WHO HAS A BETA MINDSET”.

    You have to separate the ACTION from the MINDSET. You can have an Alpha mindset but DO some Beta behaviors without that indicating that you have a Beta mindset, just like you can be AFC Tyler, with a Beta mindset, but mimic Alpha behaviors, and still be a Beta.

    But all the girl cares about is what she sees in the end, regardless of how that action came to be.

    You guys are taking this shit way too personal lol “wut monogamy is a Beta behavior so you’re saying I’m a beta fuck you man!!” That’s not what we’re saying. You can be super Alpha but be doing a Beta thing and you just have enough Alpha credit for it to not really matter. But if you keep doing more and more Beta shit eventually she’ll view you as Beta and you’ll lose attraction.

    If you have good internals/mindsets, you can neutralize the effect of a lot of those Beta behaviors but they don’t become Alpha behaviors. A guy who DOESN’T have A2 (Female to Male interest aka ATTRACTION) will NOT gain attraction from those Beta behaviors. Once he’s passed into A2, they just won’t hamper him if he has good internals.

    “I think the problem with this presumption”

    This is NOT our presumption at all lol This is a misinterpretation of our side of it.

    “We’ve had an interesting discussion about this in the last comment thread, and In the interests of full disclosure here, I’m still on the fence about this concept. I’ll have a forthcoming post about mindset soon.”

    I heart you but I don’t think you should write an article on the subject until you fully get both sides of the discussion and have fully hashed it out. Writing an article in the middle of the discussion like this is like, you’re arguing something that we aren’t saying. That’s dangerous to add that to your article collection because there are guys who won’t read the comments at all.

    “Provisioning is certainly a value added aspect to a guy who a woman sees as an Alpha sex prospect already, and not a necessary a prerequisite for fucking him, but it’s not a disadvantage (being Beta) if that Alpha guy also has means, affluence, status, looks, etc.”

    Sure it is. Lover/Provider. We field test this all the time. The more Provider traits you exhibit, the less she sees you as a Lover. Brad Pitt smothering a girl with unearned gifts will eventually blow himself out. You can see this in any nightclub on any given night…guys who have attraction from a girl and then exhibit do a bunch of beta shit and get themselves blown out. This happens ALL THE TIME lol

    “But is a nominally Alpha guy, who has excess means and resources being “Beta” by providing for his wife & family?”

    Again you’re conflating actions with the mindset/value-judgement of the man himself. They are two separate things.

    Fuck I gotta head to dinner, someone else take over lol

  23. (also personally I would prefer to drop the beta/alpha labelling of actions (because people get butthurt at those words and interpret them as value judgements) and simply label them as +/- sexual attraction instead…ie – this action causes an increase in attraction (which can be enhanced with good mindsets) whether you’re past A2 or not, and this other action causes a decrease in attraction (which can be minimized with good mindsets) whether you’re past A2 or not)

  24. @Adam & @Playdontpay

    If as men we want to go to decent restaurants and trips in the company of an amusing woman the fact remains that we have to pay for it as for the best part women can’t afford to.

    For all this talk of strong independent women, they are usually broke.

    This is our frame and funding a lifestyle we want, which after all is what success and money is for.

    It is not at all beta.

    Beta is slaving for the man (you guys call it a cubicle?) to fund an ungrateful bitch in her frame, not a lifestyle choice in our frame.

  25. @ YaReally

    Not to start anything ( I’m trying to get out of that business..), but scray was very specific, over and over, by stating –

    Ltr’s/monogamy is beta behavior period.

    Provisioning is beta behavior period, always….buuuttt, it’s okay and not a bad thing. Still beta behavior always.

    then calamity kinda ensued, and he softened and clarified to an extent.

    Imo, it’s not about hurt feelz ( at least in my case, ad from the responses I’ve read ) as much as it being inaccurate to state it as an absolute across the board, in every circumstance.

    I still find the broad application of the original argument flawed.

    I keep saying ” not in every case ” because that’s how I see it from my personal viewpoint. I kept talking about intent and motivation, along with mindset as the determining factor.

    I honestly don’t think it’s about butthurt, lol. Really. But it doesn’t help if I disagree with someone and they say that my disagreement is due to discomfort in my gluteal region.

  26. @palmasailor,

    I never said that providing for a woman was beta. I said that providing for a woman from within the context of your own frame is what is key. But doing that is extremely tricky and takes a good deal of life experience. I don’t think that a man in his twenties could safely do it.

    Paying for restaurants and trips for a woman that you see only as a casual lay is not challenging in this respect as in these circumstances you never risk entering the world of provisioning.

  27. @blax

    then calamity kinda ensued, and he softened and clarified to an extent.

    lol i didn’t soften at all. the point has remained the exact same the entire time. the questions i anticipated at the START were also answered by me AT THE START and for WHATEVER REASON there’s a huge disconnect and inability to comprehend the diff between TRAITS vs. OVERALL IMPRESSION.

    Ya and Habd have been like….level 9,000 patient about saying the same thing step by step.

    but at this point seriously I’m just like this with it:

    And I’m sorry you can’t do this. I really am because I wouldn’t have to fuckin’ sit here and watch you fumble around and fuck it up

  28. @Adam

    Yes I know – I was agreeing with you both.

    Pay for what you like as long as it’s on your terms is my point really.

  29. “You can see this in any nightclub on any given night…”

    If the world turns into a nightclub, I’m going to turn into a grass-eater.

    “For all this talk of strong independent women, they are usually broke.”

    When the dinner check comes. For some reason they are never broke when handbags go on sale.

    Unless they’ve convinced a man to go handbag shopping with them. Then, all of a sudden, they’re broke again.

    ” . . . it doesn’t help if I disagree with someone and they say that my disagreement is due to discomfort in my gluteal region.”

    Now that is an ad hominem.

    Disclaimer of Bias: I have self-identified as not an alpha. I have zero fucks to give if someone else identifies me as not an alpha as well.

  30. “To be honest I was kind of in shock that my own father would think like that. It felt like he was turning on me and it pissed me off. Even in a small way, to let his Blue Pill conditioning get in the way of his relationship with his own son — that really got to me, and not in a good way.”

    I think tho has been happening between a lot of sons and dads for the last 20-30yrs.

    Fathers are completely unaware…

    Moreover, we have these Christian movements popping up claimng they want to ‘reclaim’ masculinity and bro-ship when they do this through a blue-pull geocentric lens, which results in creating better BB prospects for women, and men who want so badly to qualify for women’s affection, & respect, and, are completely awed by the so called ‘feminine mystique’…

  31. @kobayashii1681

    Some fathers are aware which is why amongst other things I sit in restaurants eating and people watching with my son.

  32. “Maybe I’m the only guy who watched both seasons of Daredevil on Netflix, but if you watch the first season where they go into the origin and character of Wilson Fisk (Kingpin) this is exactly the type of guy I’m talking about.”

    Thought the exact same thing…

  33. @HABD Sentient Scray or whomever

    When your girl wants you to give her a backrub because her back hurts because she was stupid and slept on the floor all night, and you do it, is that beta behavior? How about if she whines when you touch the fun parts?

  34. Referencing the topic of Paper Alphas.

    The day is coming when nearly every man in conventional society WILL be blue pill .Regardless of background or muscles or bank account balance, Blue Pill will be the cultural default. In some places it already is.

    It should be noted that while we select few in the “manosphere” trade FRs and philosophy,in the rest of Western Society masculinity is being paved over like an old parking lot. Kids and teens today and even years back have NO resource for masculine role models.
    Military? Nope
    Movies? Nyet.
    Parents and society? Nein. If dads even still around, it’s because he’s a Betabux for momma.

    Thus, a generation of boys grow up with the Blue Pill schema by default; because socially there is no counterpoint. When these boys become fathers, managers, professors, cops, soldiers , bricklayers and politicians they enforce and preach the Blue Pill ethos for lack of another viewpoint.
    Anyone who says different is shouted down as a heretic, just like Galileo was centuries ago.

    It used to be a when I was young man was legit considered an exemplary individual if he married a single mother. Now it’s expected.

    It used to be standard practice for man and woman to go Dutch on dates. Now it’s socially uncouth if the man doesn’t pay.

    It used to be captains of industry and business had harems in their offices, whether the women they employed were married or not. Now Vice Presidents and managers court singular affair partners as LTR prospects; they might bang the secretary as bosses of old, but now they promise her rings and flowers under the Blue Pill regime.

    I wonder what the next “it used to be” paragraph I write here will say.

  35. It’s very important for men to understand that trillions in wealth have been forcefully transferred via the state from men to women through alimony, asset division and child support in the past few decades alone. Who built that? Gynocentrists.

    It’s very important for men to realize that trillions more in wealth and power have been forcefully transferred via the state from men to women through Title IX, Affirmative Action, female-first spending on health, education and welfare and a myriad of other female-only/female-first quota programs. Who built that? Gynocentrists.

    It’s very important for men to understand that millions upon millions of men’s lives have been sacrificed at the alter of gynocentrism through male-only conscription and a male-only front line combat fighting force – to simply hand women the rights women so viciously take for granted today. Who built that? Gynocentrists.

    It’s very important for men to realize that, with Affirmative Consent, they lose their right to presumption of innocence and due process (as they do with VAWA) – leaving them vulnerable to complete life destruction following the false accusations of a woman scorned. In other words – unless you can prove you’re innocent, you’re guilty by default. Have fun funding the civil suit payout to follow. Have fun never finding a job again with a DV (VAWA) or sexual assault/rape related false accusation (Affirmative Consent) induced conviction on your record. Who built that? Gynocentrists.

    It’s critical that men awaken to the illusions and enchantments deployed over the past century to force wealth and power from men to women – or they’ll perish in ever increasing misery and certainty.

    It’s very important for men to realize that, when they drive down the road, everything they see was built by men, including the road.

    Men – Never give women or the white knights that support them (alphas) any level of financial or legal power over your lives. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of men – in the US alone – awaken to this one simple truth – too late to save themselves – every single year. Women will not (including your mother) spell this out for you. In fact, most will actively try to hide all the above truths from you, hoping that you become the next in a long, long line of destroyed male suckers.

    Being ‘alpha’ is a man free and happy – doing whatever it is he does – paying homage to no one. Don’t let others trick you into doing things that have a very, very good chance of destroying your life in the future. Men created all of civilization. ‘Alphas’ are a minority of men and are some of the most ignorant among us. Don’t listen to their self-serving tripe. Do only what improves your own life.

    Others will tell you that my advice is ‘selfish’. Why? Because it doesn’t serve their own needs. See what I’m driving at? All throughout your life – there will be others that want you to act in a certain way so that they’ll benefit from your ignorance and self-sacrifice. Not good. It’s self-serving manipulation on their part to get you to sacrifice more so they gain. Don’t fall for it.

    Just say no. Your body – your choice. Bicycles don’t need fish. Hades hath no wrath like that of a woman scorned. Don’t be a victim of social conditioning (aka – ‘man up’).

    Collectively – crank your middle finger to the upright position and tell the gynocentrists to learn to fen for themselves – rather than living as parasites off of your good, however naive and gullible, socially conditioned, disposable male nature.

  36. @ koba

    “Moreover, we have these Christian movements popping up claimng they want to ‘reclaim’ masculinity and bro-ship…”

    The men’s club’s in my parish, esp the KOC, have conformed to the FI. Some examples: Single mom’s shelter needs supplies? Here comes the KOC. The parish (administered by women) needs money for improvements? Here comes the KOC.

    A community is held together by a common self-sustaining mentality. The men’s clubs have lost their vitality and attraction as the sponsoring institutions are hollowed out by leftest, flaky feminine thought.

    TRM has provided real hope to a lot of guys and I posit it has per capita helped more troubled marriages than the AAMFT.

  37. @ Tim

    When I first started looking around the sphere years ago, I had zero idea what an ” Alpha ” was at all.

    So I kept reading and there were certain patterns I kept seeing put forth as ” Alpha “.

    It’s neither 100% positive, nor 100% negative. It’s subjective.

    But what I’d noticed was that a bunch of males that I’d known over the course of my life did indeed ” qualify ” as alpha by any objective definition.

    So what your saying has a lot of truth, but you inadvertently screw the pooch by blaming ” alphas ” for the ills.

    Ever heard of the Feminine Imperative? Feminism?

    Just askin’…

  38. @ Auvergnat

    “If “Beta” is the mindset of low SMV men, then NO. High SMV men may want to settle and provide.

    If “Beta” is the side of the sexual strategy of women that is about finding a provider to feel safe, then by definition YES.”

    Fuckin ay. Wish I knew how to post pics/gifs on this thing lol

  39. @Blaximus

    “So what your saying has a lot of truth, but you inadvertently screw the pooch by blaming ” alphas ” for the ills.”

    Is Donald Trump an alpha? Was George Patton an alpha? I personally define ‘alpha male’ as, “A male sociopath/pathological narcissist that has perfected the method of collecting wealth, power and self-aggrandizement for himself through the usury and suffering of other men.” In this way – I equate ‘alpha’ with ‘feminist’. Feminism is simply hyper-gynocentrism – an advanced form of tradcon gynocentrism – with gynocentrism being the primary driver of male disposability and cultural misandry. ‘Alpha Males’ seem to take nearly as much joy in belittling men as feminists – hence my epiphany.

    What’s your definition of alpha?

  40. @Scray, YaReally, I left this post open ended for a reason. I’d rather the discussion not be buried beneath 600+ comments in a post that had little to do with that discussion.

    That said, I get that process and mindset need to be separate. Hell, I’ll even concede that from a purely objective perspective provisioning and LTRs are inherently Beta behaviors. But in that respect MGTOWs would be more “Alpha” than any PUA who entertains any form of LTR. Granted, they’re Beta in many other respects, but provisioning ain’t one of ’em.

    I should also say that by this definition, fatherhood, parenting, provisioning in terms of long term emotional and financial security, and any behavior that implies vulnerability on a man’s part is inherently Beta. Whether that’s bad or good in the aggregate is relative to the woman acting as the arbiter of that guy’s behavior, and subjective to her own necessity and SMV relative to his.

    Over the course of an LTR, if this perception isn’t perpetually and actively countered by more Alpha dominant contingent behaviors, that man will never be able to avoid his general association of “being” Beta in his persona.

    Finally, if mindset is less important than process, I think someone ought to inform Owen Cook about it. From what I’ve been seeing in the videos I’ve been researching, he and RSD Luke(?) are very invested in the importance of mindset and how it affects men’s self-perceptions which in turn affects process. Maybe this is a new development, the result of some new insight he’s had in his middle age years, but from what I’ve seen mindset is almost more important than process to him.

  41. “I personally define ‘alpha male’ as, “A male sociopath/pathological narcissist . . .”

    I personally define you as a goldfish.

  42. @ Tim

    ” What’s your definition of alpha?”

    Not important.

    So, by your description, there’d be no poor alphas that aren’t military heroes and political hack/captains of industry?

    What if I told you I knew a guy that sold hot dogs on Broadway in NYC that was as alpha as any guy ever?

    In your mind, could that be possible?

    What if I told you I knew a guy that shot 8 people, killing 6 of them, and that he was the biggest beta you could imagine?

    So ” alphas ” facilitate the usury and suffering of men?

    I disagree 100%.

  43. “I disagree 100%.”

    Good. Because this notion that there exists 10% of men that are superior to 90% of men needs to go by the wayside. It’s worse than feminism’s claim of ‘evil patriarchy’ – which is used as a tool to elevate oneself over others by deeply and fallaciously diminishing others – much in the way sociopaths and pathological narcissists target, groom, gaslight and then destroy their chosen prey.

  44. @ Tim

    ” Good. Because this notion that there exists 10% of men that are superior to 90% of men needs to go by the wayside. It’s worse than feminism’s claim of ‘evil patriarchy’ – which is used as a tool to elevate oneself over others by deeply and fallaciously diminishing others – much in the way sociopaths and pathological narcissists target, groom, gaslight and then destroy their chosen prey.”

    Whoa.

    There are men that excel and achieve above the masses of other men, by a bunch of metrics.

    I think it’s higher than 10% though, but again – subjective.

    When was the last time you interacted with large numbers of men over an extended period?

    So, let me ask you – would you say that there are no ” superior ” men, and that all men are mostly equal?

  45. ” . . . this notion that there exists 10% of men that are superior to 90% of men needs to go by the wayside.”

    And the judges award the participation gold medal to . . . EVERYbody!

    Now you can take part in psychological comfort.

  46. @ Rollo

    ” I should also say that by this definition, fatherhood, parenting, provisioning in terms of long term emotional and financial security, and any behavior that implies vulnerability on a man’s part is inherently Beta. Whether that’s bad or good in the aggregate is relative to the woman acting as the arbiter of that guy’s behavior, and subjective to her own necessity and SMV relative to his.”

    So do you believe that the things mentioned display vulnerability on a man’s part?

  47. “… implies vulnerability .”

    How did they try to get to Keyser Söze?

    “Different than actual vulnerability.”

    How did he deal with it?

  48. “So, let me ask you – would you say that there are no ” superior ” men, and that all men are mostly equal?”

    Yes. I say there are no superior men and that all men are equal. What’s ‘superior’ about being born with a certain set of characteristics that make you more attractive to women or more easily followed by other men? I’ve had these characteristics all my life and can tell you with certainty that these characteristics do not make me superior to other men. On the contrary – these characteristics have served rather as a curse.

    Superior intelligence has led us to the threat of constant nuclear annihilation and the destruction of all life on earth. Superior leadership has led to the war deaths of hundreds of millions – all throughout human history. Superior looks lead one to vanity and the belief they’re superior to others due to superficial appeal. Superior gender (hyper gynocentrism) has led to countless millions of men’s deaths and destroyed male lives at the alter of some hole between some woman’s legs. Heck – at one point – people even believed that they were the ‘superior race’ – and nearly annihilated another race through this belief.

    If ‘superior men’ are those men that lead the pack in causing great suffering through the usury and disposal of other men – there there certainly are ‘superior men’.

  49. In other news-

    I met the gf of Christopher McQuarrie not long after Usual Suspects was released.

    Since the movie blew me away the first time I saw it, I tried to wrangle an introduction to Mr. M.

    But before fruit could be realized, he dumped his gf and shortly there after she made herself scarce.

    Embarrassment. It’s what’s for breakfast.

  50. @Blaximus: “Like Tim’s definition of Alpha – he killed everybody.”

    Somebody needs to make a version of the movie where Keyser Söze isn’t portrayed as a good guy.

  51. “Yes. I say there are no superior men and that all men are equal.”

    Aaaaaaaand, it looks like it’s about time to put my wallet in the safe.

  52. Blaximus blaximus blaximus

    Do something constructive. Salsa Club a.s.a.p. mijo. First 5 drinks on me.

  53. Being a people pleaser is a major trait of co-dependency–basing your inner happiness on external validation, simply….”beta”.

    The strategies for dealing with co-dependency—stopping yourself when you act and to consider your motives, being more “selfish”, saying “no” more often are ways of “killing the beta”.

    But…what if the co-dependent behaviours are so ingrained that you no longer give them a second thought?

    A girl comes over, I pour her a drink….beta? vs “help yourself to a drink”…

    I dress up…am I doing this because it makes me feel good? or is this to increase my attractiveness?

    Do I respond immediately to a text or wait two days because….it’s the PUA thing to do? In this case because girls are so flakey waiting two days to respond isn’t always a great strategy because you’ll need to work twice as hard to amp up that attraction…

    Is all this “provisioning” of some kind? I struggle with this all the time.

    Sometimes it’s just faster and easier to do this shit rather than playing the waiting game which …could appear indecisive—which again is me second-guessing myself.

    Finding that “balance” or “Calibration” between what is appropriate is the skill i’m working on.

    A girl I’m gaming sometimes takes 2 days to reply and then other times a few minutes….means nothing….I just get that she’s busy.

    Another girl I’m gaming does the same thing but doesn’t seem that engaged…..so I drop off.

    Reading the motivations is part of this idea of an alpha mindset. Being comfortable with the decisions you make….it’s hard when you’ve come into the Red Pill from a totally Blue Pill upbringing.

  54. 3 “alpha” PUA’s enter a bar… the first one says to the group… “check this out bro. Watch me give value…” “Oh yeah” the bros reply – in unison, “Give it!!!!!”

  55. Just had my dad define the emotional state of my mother and sister about hanging out with my nephew and his farther.
    “Their default is to action, dominance, authority and control of whatever life puts in front of them. ”
    Not so familiar with this part of it.

  56. Another data point for consideration about how women react to provisioning potential.

    First, the back story: Around 10 years ago I was getting divorced – and it was an ugly divorce: drawn out with my living in a difference city 200 miles away for the last year of it. I was in my early 40s (41-2 to be exact) and I was doing ‘pretty well’ – not as good as the few guys I knew who had sold businesses, etc, but better than most. Making ~188k-210k/yr, living in a small but desirably located place, and driving an AMG (Mercedes) E63 wagon.

    I was still learning to properly become Alpha (didn’t even know the term as we use it then), but had come a long, long way in a short time due to how nasty my ex was, and how badly I been treated the entire long marriage. as well as finding sources like Leykis, etc that were around. I had a ton of pent-up resentment and energy that was escaping so I was in a total give-no-flucks, take-zero-crap from any woman state of mind.

    So I decided to get out and sample as many woman as I could, to make up the complete drought that my marriage had been for years. But what I started out doing was to show interest in and date attractive women my own age, or even older (if they were in the shrinking percentage to have keep a slim figure, etc) i.e. well past the epiphany phase.

    I made it a deliberate point not show or otherwise play down my relative economic status. I was pretty good looking – a combination of very good genetics, all my hair, etc, and having hit the gym daily for months, and confident– 99% because I didn’t care that any one woman worked out or not – I was interested for me, not them. I did online dating, and later got referrals from previous dates. I was very honest and direct in my pursuits, and I had multiple plates going at any one time. I used my looks and personality to get the initial dates.

    The point of all this set-up? I noticed a very consistent reaction when these women, well past the epiphany phase, realized that I was economically above average. I would do things like say “I’ll be showing up in the back station wagon”, or saying “well, I got a small place in the city” and when they say it was the AMG Mercedes, or we went to my place and they saw the snooty address with the great water view (they didn’t need to know I just rented), or other things.. I deliberately played the “don’t even mention it/oh that little thing?” game. Never a mention of what my divorce was costing me, etc.

    For about 85% of the older women, I swear there was a sudden envisioning that if they “landed me” they wouldn’t have to work their 30/40/50k a year secretary/admin/middle-of-the road job and just get by anymore, And boom, the amount of time before the overt invitations to have enthusiastic sex was counted in hours or minutes, not days.

    What became obvious to me was that most of these women had overplayed their hand in their youth (which lead them to be single when older), but they remember their expectations of being provided for and having an easier life than working 40-50 hours a week and not-that-fulfilling job, and of a higher status (to impress other women) than they were able to afford on their own. They we seeing me a much rarer chance to cash out into an easier life before their remaining SMV diminished even further. (and these were the above average lookers)

    After a while I got the hang of chasing younger women, and shifted my attentions to them. For the 35 on down into the mid-20s crowd, my displayed economic prowess didn’t really factor into getting their panties off – It was all about what I now know as ‘generating the tingles’. The one I eventually kept is 15-years younger than me, and I play the game to keep her in her place daily.

  57. Rugby11

    How old are you? what is your status? virgin, incel, volcel, single, married, divorced?

    What is behind the posting of all these videos and literotica links….? I’ve not grasped your theme yet.

    Do tell…

  58. Wala

    Reading the motivations is part of this idea of an alpha mindset. Being comfortable with the decisions you make….it’s hard when you’ve come into the Red Pill from a totally Blue Pill upbringing.

    Keep slogging… the Alpha Triad is made for likes of you… You are very close to a major breakthrough… just like Culum.

    Forget the Pharisaical legalism – The Torah of Game… and embrace your true nature and then just be…

    You got this. YOU are valuable… and you don’t need to “give” it away… They need to earn it.

  59. Scray

    like a dude sucking a dude off in front of a chick and letting the dude blast on his face is NOT GOING TO MAKE A CHICK MORE ATTRACTED, IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PERCEIVED AS ALPHA,

    Do you know this for a fact? If so, I defer to your experience in this instance.

  60. 1) a womans SMV curve is directly and inversely related to her need for money for life. Women have been born with what Wall st calls an “in the money put option” between their legs. You can be 23 yos more easily because a 23 Yo can handle much more volatility that a 33 year old because the Vol adds to the 23yos value where as the Vol takes value away from a 33 yo.

    2) Women form a life time bond with their mothers stronger than men do with their fathers from a very early age. Their mothers, in turn, teach them to lie about having their periods from the minute they get them. They go on to continue to lie about whats coming in and out of their vaginas for the rest of their lives. Imagine if your father hid a colt 45 or a gold bar under your bed when you were 12, and every month counselled you to lie about it…how good would you get at lying, at hiding things, if your dad trained you every month from 12 years old….thats what were dealing with….

  61. Tim sounds like a closet communist … would do well to check out the parable of the talents in the Bible if he makes any claims to being a Christian for even Jesus knew all men weren’t close to equal.

    Moving on, I get it about provisioning. It’s a beta action in and of itself, but the mindset one carries into it still carries a quite a bit of weight. I didn’t have it when I was married and I paid the price. My father had it and my parents are still married in their old age when most of their friends have been divorced at least once.

    I’ve come to recognize not only what that was about my father that has kept my mother attracted to him even in their old age when he is not what he was, but also that my father was a natural who was incapable of teaching me how he did it. My mother tried quite often but failed to betatize him, but she did succeed in betatizing me and my brothers, and my father never counteracted that. So there’s that dynamic, only really understood when I digested the red pill.

  62. 3) tying those two points together and referencing the OP… Imagine you were born with a pot of gold between your legs and then once a month its value went to zero when it started to bleed. \…

    How good would you get at BJs/HJs for the Alphas to get them to hang around during shark week? how quickly would you notice that Betas would hang around during shark week without BJs/HJs ? what would you think of those Betas and there sense of self worth??? how would you treat them?? its like a male buddy who hangs around all day even when your xBox is broken and theres no wine in the fridge..its like wtf hasn’t he got something better to do, hes wasting his time.

    Look I am not trying to turn anyone into Gay or worse MGTOW (hey at least you’d have company if you were gay), and I am neither…I just want people to realise that deception and AF/BB are baked into the cake at the deepest biological level, its not even programming, you’re never gonna beat the system in playing in their frame when all you’ve got is a simple cock that wants it everyday, and the’ve got a rubiks cube that the whole world is trying to solve and chad comes in a the last minute when all the hard work is done and puts down the final move..

  63. @theasdgamer

    “@HABD Sentient Scray or whomever

    When your girl wants you to give her a backrub because her back hurts because she was stupid and slept on the floor all night, and you do it, is that beta behavior? ”

    there is no such thing as ‘beta’… but THAT behavior is an excellent example of ‘male sexual reproduction strategy type 2’… lol

    “How about if she whines when you touch the fun parts?”

    same… bc a girl who was interacting with a guy displaying ‘male sexual reproduction strategy type 1’ behaviors would get tingles… and wouldn’t whine about it… unless it was a ‘female reproductive strategy gambit to test male genetic fitness for reproduction potential’…

    lol…

    good luck!

  64. Regarding the first half, “softek story”:
    The very first reason why I got into game a few years ago was because I didn’t want to end up like one of those men you pointed out. The men that were successful in every other area of life, but not with women. It comes to mind the typical story of the successful banker who’s life is ruined by the beautiful young blondie. There are men of men, and there are men of women. The skills to master the first don’t always translate into the skills needed to master the later.

    About the second half “Provisioning”:

    I read some of your comments and I agree with you. Personally I would the situation a bit different.
    I’d say provisioning is not beta, it’s the circumstances under which it happens that determine it.
    From the guy’s side, provisioning is fine, if it happens within a “symbiotic” relationship, where the wife brings value as well, and not a “parasitic” relationship, where the value exchange is one-sided.

    From the girl’s perspective, I’d say provisioning relevance varies, depending on how easily she can get it. That is why when she hits the wall she shifts her priority. She can still get sex, but her ability to procure long term provisioning decreases. And as you mentioned in the last article, by the time she hits her 40’s-50’s she’s subconsciously given up on her ability to procure long term provisioning and goes for the cougar image to at least get some sex, and tell herself that she still got it.
    It all boils down to how much it takes to optimize either the fucks side, or the bux side of hypergamy.

    I would actually go farther, and expand your question:”Does that make provisioning a beta trait?” to “Does mastering Alpha fux an Alpha trait?”

    The answer could be long and well worth writing a couple of essays. But the short answer would, it depends under who’s frame you operate. FI or MI
    This situation was mentioned a few articles ago: the majority of PUA’s no matter how good they get, they still operate under the FI, and withing its boundaries.

    I experienced that first hand last year. I went through a strike of a dozen of women in a period of about 3 months. And the biggest lesson I learn during that period(beside finally internalizing the fact that I know I can get laid) was that no matter how good I had become at getting laid, I was still an utility to those girls. I could have sent my career and finances to hell and they wouldn’t have cared. They got the tingles and fin, and that’s all that mattered to them.

    Also,no matter how good you are on the AF side of hypergamy, your “alpha” behavior could send you to jail and fuck up your life. We don’t even to theorize about this. At the current moment this reality is already happening, it might only be restricted to public figures(Trump “grab them by the pussy”) but the future is not far where laws passed to restrict and sanction typical AF behavior. Women will still let you fuck them, but you will be at their mercy should they decide to change their mind.
    So, how Alpha is this type of guy? Does his ability to fuck women make him really Alpha?Which one would be real Alpha under this circumstances, A player or a financially successful MGTOW?

  65. @rugby11

    Your dad is right I suspect.

    It’s an assumptive close on their part.

    They are assuming control of the frame of all interactions.

    Society allows women to do this where it would shame men.

    If you say ‘no’ to them they will be stunned, but that is what needs to be done or they will totally dominate and make your life a misery.

  66. Fuck I am still blue pill..advice from the board please
    Apologise in advance for the length of this post but I gotta get this off my Chest, been reading Rollo and CH for 6+ years i’m 45. I was physiologically cuckolded by my ex-wife for 15years. She is BPD and threatened to kill herself if I ever left (I dont “think” she ever cheated). So I stayed for my kids and drank to ease the pain. Ex-wife asked me to leave last October and I did.

    I have zero approach anxiety and I met a 27yo girl 4 days later and we are “together” to this day. We both told each other we loved each other and wanted to marry (and the sex is fantastic). 2 months ago her parents found out about us and forbid us to be together and are forcing her into an arranged marriage. She still comes over and bangs ever other day, 1 month ago I found her sending a sexy text to the arranged marriage dude but have never mentioned it. She also “trickle truthes” about other guys at her work she finds “cute”.

    I feel horrible and have started drinking and smoking too much to ease the pain, I have also not been focusing at all on self-improvement / gym. I have a complete “fuck it all” defeatist mentality. The question is should I pre-emptively axe my 1 plate and a relationship that is making me sick, just to get my head straight and re-build? will doing this get my head straight??

    Should I keep her for the bangs and self improve / get other plates? last sunday I knocked back a 31 yo hottie who gave me all the signals because I am “in love” / have oneitis for the 27yo. I cant even believe I am writing this as a 45 yo man who has read all of Rollo, but I just worked out I am still blue pill, Shit relationships have kept me (with me a willing participant) at teenager level of mentality. I am still unable to make myself my mental point of origin, I worked out and worked hard for my ex and for miss 27, by myself I just drink and smoke. I know its fuck but I lost my dad young and dont have an “alpha” and ever woman who has ever had power over me has ended up mistreating me, my very own mother included. How can I break this? Im gonna find an alpha male mentor to go to the gym with – first step.

    Thanks guys, any advice very sincerely appreciated.

  67. @Max from OZ

    While unplugging I took a year off women.

    Monk Mode

    If you’re serious you might want to try it,

  68. Thanks palm sailior writing that made me realise some truths
    1. I got to get sober and off the smokes
    1plus. I am my sons (13 yo) Alpha I have to be fit and strong for him for many decades.
    2. Entering womens frames has consistently hurt me. 27yo has also told me shell kill herself if i leave. Thats very unhealthy for me. And probably her.
    3. Ill eventually get better relationship is i am sober fit and strong.

    Thanks for your advice.

  69. @Max from OZ

    My recommendation runs counter to PUA doctrine:

    Embrace the oneitis
    Get comfy with the fact that this girl rocks your world.

    Girls (and men) can have a hard time getting communications past their programming. Sometimes dribs and drabs is they can do. As long as she treats you right and tells no savage untruths, let it be.

    Spot and address shit-tests, this will reassure her.
    Absolutely have plates, even if it sucks. You need balance. I know.

  70. Thanks @Saracen III

    Will try and focus on the new plates and self improvement.

    Cheers I appreciate your reply.

  71. This post made me think of one of my close mates here in oz; by all accounts he comes across at first as Alpha-as-Fuck; he’s over six foot tall, totally confident around people, pushy, overbearing and opinionated, takes up space, always draws attention to himself, naturally peacocks with his clothes, the whole Alpha gig… He walks into a room like he’s Liam Gallagher.

    All except in one way; this guy is 120% Blue Pill. He can’t be talked out of it or coached by me or any of his other well-meaning mates into not acting like a drooling loon with women. All of us at one time or other have said “Look, just be COOL and stop acting like a dick head and she’ll jump into the sack with you! She WANTS you to be cool!!!”

    He frequently quotes the old blue pill justification about being authentic and expressing how he really feels and not “playing mind games”. It’s his MISSION to fuck up with soft simpering beta cooing and overtures of adoration and worship.

    This Alpha/Beta bi-polarity strangely means that he attracts women like a magnet who don’t know him, but then he’ll quickly repel them and get dropped like a hot potato, sometimes within 24 hours of any initial flirty texts from her. He’s always “falling in love” and asking me for advice about this or that woman. He might have only just got a girl nibbling around the hook and then he’ll whip out his acoustic guitar and pen a song for her about their destiny to be together or her beautiful brown eyes and flick through a recording on his phone. Seriously. Then he’ll ring me and ask what’s wrong with her as she didn’t respond to the song / poem / love letter / gift, and ask why all women are fucked in the head.

    What can you do? We – his best mates – think he’s literally a lost cause and can only snigger at his shameful antics and thank God that it isn’t us.

  72. Further thoughts on provisioning and can it ever be a non beta trait.

    I’ve already said that I pay for drinks and sometimes trips and also the occasional small gifts for birthdays and at Christmas
    ( I don’t do Valentine’s Day).

    As I’ve already explained as I consider women to be entertainment only and I’m not offering commitment , I’m happy to pay the check as I have received some of her currency in exchange ( time limited non replenishable SMV).

    The question I ask myself is “would this chick still show up if I didn’t buy the drinks or insisted we split the check?” .

    In general any woman with an SMV of 6+ has virtually unlimited access to free drinks and meals etc, it really isn’t a big factor, very few will go on multiple dates and get fucked silly by a man they have low interest in just for a few free drinks.

    When you both know that you don’t need to pay the check to keep her around but you do it anyway, because you got shit handled and it’s not going to affect your finances, then it becomes a non issue, neutral trait at worst and maybe even dangles the fabled Alpha bucks carrot that all women dream of.

    An Alpha male does what he wants when he wants and if he wants to spend some cash on something that gives him pleasure on his own terms, then I don’t see that as a beta trait.

    For a good outline of Alpha I would suggest reading Alpha 2.0 over at blackdragons blog.

  73. @Playdontpay

    I think the theory of provisioning implies a medium / long term approach to making your resources available to a woman.

    If you hang out with a woman and stand a few beers or dinner I don’t think it represents provisioning in any sense of the word.

    Marriage / BB provisioning is about COMMITMENT!!!!!

    That is long term unlimited access to resources not what you and I do with women which is short term and transactional.

  74. @ palms sailor

    Agreed.

    It’s just that so many PUA types will tell you that even buying a girl a few drinks will automatically put you in the BB category in a girls mind.

    I disagree it depends how it’s done, why and by who.

    Fuctional character I know but Do you think a man like James Bond would ask a chick to split the check for a couple of martinis?

    Not a chance, must be a beta bucks then some would have you believe.

    @ Rollo the photos that go with your posts are usually right on the money, this one I really don’t get it!

  75. palmasailor

    “Marriage / BB provisioning is about COMMITMENT!!!!!

    That is long term unlimited access to resources not what you and I do with women which is short term and transactional.”

    The “unlimited access to resources” is from the old books when women were still raised to be responsible,not saying these responsible women you can trust with your money don’t exist but good luck finding one.

    From my experience,when the women in my life (mom,sisters,wife,daughters,acquaintances…)
    want access to my resources they are nice and friendly,once they get what they want,or don’t the treatment changes and not for the better. The trick is to see this coming and game accordingly,if a man fails to make the most of this horse trade he will inevitably loose respect from these women.Under this premise unlimited access is beta,unless you have the old school woman..

    Note I love it when they want something,I get lots of respect free dinners,cookies,hugs,i love you’s,back rubs,chores get done ect.

  76. It’s all about power. Followed by looks.

    Women see power in all its forms – money, social connections, knowledge/specialisms etc and look to leverage their sexuality in exchange for power. They have sex to seduce, then seek to cement their access to power and security by securing commitment. Once they have full commitment they get bored and try to upgrade, unless they have kids, in which case they forget about it for a while. Women throw themselves at powerful men and sleep with them immediately or after a few tests to ensure he is truly strong and suggest she isn’t a slut. Men can fake power through game. Which is why it works. However with no real power to back it up women will bail. If a women is made to feel dread of losing her access to power she works hard to keep it by being sexy and putting out: she fancies her husband more. If she takes over the relationship she has the power secured and loses interest. In essence women are seeking to tame a powerful man and make him love her. As a man if you show no signs of this being possible you lose the woman, equally if you capitulate and give her everything she wants, you lose her too. Alpha is simply a man with power who knows it. Beta is a man who has surrendered some/all of his power and given away commitment. When women cheat with Alphas they are doing it to either mix in some new genes and cuckold, or to try to upgrade their primary partner and convert a new, better alpha into a new better Beta.

    Women want a good looking, powerful man to have kids with in a secure environment. They always need to be challenged to stay interested, but not too much so they get scared off. Men need to be a Alpha Beta mix in a ltr or marriage. It was easier in the past when this was guaranteed by wealth inequality.

  77. Nobby

    It is about power,as women for ages have learned to operate without physical power,hence they become masters of game. They are solipsistic and because of this see a man with no game as weak,no matter how strong he is physicaly.

  78. “Over the course of an LTR, if this perception isn’t perpetually and actively countered by more Alpha dominant contingent behaviors, that man will never be able to avoid his general association of “being” Beta in his persona.”

    Christ, tell me about it.

    Friday evening starts well enough. After the first bottle of wine, the missus melts down, blames me for the sundry usual reasons (trust issues, asshole, mean).

    As she’s lamenting me, I start critically questioning my motives in all this. I’m kinda spacing out for 90 seconds or so, channeling the critical contributors here.

    Q: Am I subconsciously enjoying and masochistically perpetuating this unremitting shit test?

    A: No. This isn’t my idea of fun.

    Q: What’s is my best option now to short term finish her rant and long term drive a lasting impression home, and not burn down the house?

    A: (Channeling Forge} I refuse to leave my house thus I’d rather see her leave and I could sleep in my own bed. I proceed telling her I’m more experienced, better understand the ebb and flow of kids’ lives and adult life, and in general, a better parent, and I’m not keeping score per se.

    She goes ballistic, stomps to the sink, dumps the bottle of wine and her glass. (Channeling Anonymous Reader) I tell her if she’s brings that violent shit back to the table I’m calling the cops. I don’t like her that much, she’s becoming an unwelcome presence in our household.

    She’s bawling in my lap soon enough, profusely apologizing.

    Sex tonight, this morning is o.k.

    I really don’t like her that much now, don’t recall when I last did. There are bigger things, better and more worthwhile reasons than my ego at stake.

    Andy Piggott’s post reminded me of the first time the missus slapped me 23 years ago, otherwise the moment I f@#ked it up. During sex I said something, she “Hollywood” slapped me. My hands were busy, so I just pulled and left. Why I let her back in my life was a BP mistake at the time, but I value my kids now; they aren’t mistakes and a lot of fun.

    I know the kids are watching how I deal with her. It’s as good as anyone else could do I presume.

    Would I prefer to f@#k the endless stream of available women I meet daily? Maybe…probably, Channeling Blax: Women are easy. But this isn’t about sex.

    Again, I know I’m not alone and I hope this helps someone else too.

    P.S.: Post-blubber, wife gets herself another glass of wine, and asks me if she might be PMSing. Her moment of clarity.

  79. Rollo….you said it right…I would add that telling a girl you’re getting to know that you own a chain of 7 Elevens versus saying I run a stripclub has different effects on her psyche…agreed?

Speak your mind

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s