SMV and the Aging Process

aging_process

A comment from a woman on enotalone.com:

I am 31 years old, and not looking for anyone, but I have a lot of guy friends/acquaintances my age and the trend I see is a bit disheartening. There’s about 8 different ones that I know who are between 29-32 and EVERY SINGLE ONE IS DATING A 21-23 YEAR OLD.

I just don’t get it. There are plenty of women closer to their ages and single, but yet they all go for the young women. I feel kind of sad for women entering the dating market, at least where I’m from because it seems women my age have no hope in competing with these younger, perkier women.

Just a rant I suppose. I don’t have anything against younger women of course, but I can’t help but feel a bit unnerved by the trend I see here.

This is an overt observation of what women understand from a very early age – women’s sexual marketability declines with age, while men’s (should) increases as they age. This woman’s concerns should come as no shock to any Red Pill aware man. It’s the clarion call of a woman who’s aging out of the SMP and on the tail end of her Epiphany Phase.

All women have conditions (prerequisites) for men in order for them to become intimate (sexual) with them; he’s got to be good looking, he’s got to be financially stable (surplus resources), he’s got to have some status, respectability, ambition, be confident, he has to be the initiator, he’s has to be decisive, he has to make an emotional connection with her, he’s got have ‘provider’ potential,..etc., etc. And the list goes on and on for any individual woman and according to her ability (i.e. looks) to demand each condition. Each of these personal conditions for intimacy is set in a priority order depending on her ability to demand them and this demand is mediated by her age relative to her attractiveness to men.

It’s no secret that a woman’s sexual marketability declines as she ages and men’s increases as he ages. As a woman ages she progressively loses her ability to physically attract a mate (his one condition for intimacy), thus her conditions and their priority order shift accordingly because she is forced to compete with younger, more attractive women for the same pool of eligible men.

These men tend to be the ones best able to provide for her long term security and any resulting offspring. Thus, well established men (with status, money, hopefully good looks, etc.) in their early 30’s are the prime targets and the more they exemplify her conditions for intimacy, in their existing priority order, the more suitable he becomes for that intimacy and the harder she will compete with other women to achieve his long term commitment.

Pop-psychology would have us believe that women in their late 30’s to early 40’s are in their sexual prime. This may serve to increase the self-esteem of women finding themselves unable to command the male attention they did in their youth, but nothing could be further from the truth. While pre-menopausal women do in fact experience a spike in their testosterone levels and a resulting sex drive increase prior to the last of their eggs dropping, it is women between the ages of 18 and 26 that are in fact in their prime fertility stages. Women’s bodies in this age range are far better prepared for the rigors of pregnancy. At no other phase in her life is she more sexually active and most capable of commanding the attentions of the best male meeting her conditional criteria and in their most strict order. However these conditions are still mediated by her physical attractiveness – thus, if she’s fat her conditions (and their priority) will be adjusted accordingly – but she is nonetheless at her personal prime in this phase.

Unsurprisingly we see in most cultures older males striving for the attentions of the younger and more attractive females, but in western culture he becomes vilified and shamed for this – or at least that’s what western feminized women would like to be the case. The most common complaint women in their mid-thirties bemoan is that “There’s no good men” or they can’t understand why men just can’t “grow up” and find them more attractive than the young women they used to be themselves.

Increasingly, ‘careerist women’ desiring to finally start a family at age 35 find that men – particularly the ones that meet their conditions – in their age range (33-38) are not interested in women (to say nothing of ‘careerist women’) of their own age range. They’re interested in the 22 year olds who wouldn’t give them the time of day when they didn’t have the status (or maturity) that they’ve just discovered they now have. And of course the 35 year old career woman was one of these 22 year old girls, only 13 years prior, who was doing precisely the same thing the 22 year old girls are doing today.

But that doesn’t stop 30 something women from complaining about how men their age are ‘infantile’ for wanting to breed with ‘little girls’, rather than mature, intelligent, respectable career women such as themselves. They are incapable of conceiving why men ‘wont live up to their responsibilities’ and commit to a lifetime with them. They write article after article about how men are in fact threatened by their ‘successfulness’ or their ‘status’, when the simple fact remains that his breeding choices are dictated by one single condition – she’s got to be hot. Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. The mid-thirties woman is (with a few notable exceptions) simply not as attractive as younger women.

So as an unspoken reaction to this predicament we get to see the popularity of the idea that “You can be 40 and still ‘have it'” among women. “Those men and their fragile egos just don’t know what they’re missing. How dare they be aroused by, and date younger more attractive women, we’ll show them”, they’d have them believe and pander to this dynamic while encouraging the fallacy that ‘men ought to be ashamed of their sexual impulse.

And finally we encounter the 40+ woman looking for what she couldn’t get in her 30s. Her priorities and conditions for intimacy have been altered radically now. At 40, the career woman has abandoned the idea of long term commitment; she may make up some sort of internalized blame for men not accepting her, but the truth comes that time has or is running out.

Perhaps she’s divorced, perhaps she’s a single mother, but at 40+ the importance becomes sex as empowerment for her. She still wants to know she’s ‘still got it’ and since none of the men of the age she’d like to be in an LTR with are biting she’ll be more than happy to get with a 22 year old ‘hunk’. They’re easy pickin’s since none of the girls their own age are interested in them.

They’re virile, young, dumb and full of cum. That’ll show those immature older men who don’t know how to commit! She’ll beat ’em at their own game. “Look at what I’ve got! A hot guy (relative, actually) who knows how to pleasure an older woman”; again shaming and insinuating older men’s sexual performance isn’t up to ‘women’s standards’. All conditions for intimacy and the priority orders she had before are out the window with the exception of physical attractiveness now, which, interestingly enough, has been a man’s only condition since he hit puberty. She’s come full circle, only now she makes an effort to enhance her appearance in the gym, with plastic surgery, Botox, breast augmentation, anything that will increase the attraction for young guys.

And of course the young guys are all too happy to ‘fill that hole’ (pun intended) since the effort required to get after it with the 40+ is practically nil and the rejection ratio is far lower. In addition most 22 year old guys know an LTR is more or less out of the question; they may be a booty call for her, but that’s an ideal situation for him, sex on demand with no expectation of any form of security for her. They like to make up reasonings like “she’s more experienced in bed” or “we’re both in our sexual primes”, but this just serves to justify him being a booty call, as if he’d have a problem with that.

The real irony of the whole situation is that 40+ woman is now doing exactly what she mercilessly criticized these ‘immature’, problematic 30-40 something men for doing. However, we don’t see any articles telling women to grow up, or to do the right thing or how infantile they are for sexually desiring younger men. On the contrary, they’re applauded for ‘bucking the system’ and embracing their sexual natures (as if they were formerly repressed) and “You go girl!” using isolated celebrity examples like Demi Moore fucking Ashton Kutcher as a role model.

The SMP After Marriage

For a long while I’ve been content to let bloggers like Athol Kay address sexual dynamics post-marriage (or LTR). I don’t think it’s any real secret that Married Man Sex Life has been more than compromised by a feminine-correct influence and the discussion is now directed by women’s imperatives there. This has been the forum’s state for some time now. So as such, I feel it’s kind of incumbent upon me to open myself up to addressing Red Pill issues within marriage (or LTRs) for the foreseeable future. This is just an avenue I’ll be opening up here, not a particular focus, don’t worry.

The following was a comment from YaReally in last week’s thread. I thought this more or less summed up the disconnect he believes exists between Old Married Guys (OMGs) and Young Single Guys (YSGs) who both have enough Red Pill awareness to want to employ it in their marriages as well as the plates they’re spinning as a PUA:

Keeping your 70yo wife attracted to you simply doesn’t come with the same obstacles modern men trying to keep a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016 attracted face. This is just objective reality. Again we’re happy for you and your wives that you find them attractive still, that’s awesome, but no one over at the RVF is posting your wives’ pics in the “post your idea of a 10” threads…they OBJECTIVELY have low SMV, and lower SMV than you super badasses as they age, and it’s simple logic that a a man keeping a low SMV woman is a different situation than a man keeping a high SMV woman.

This is an interesting paradox for OMGs, but I think it’s also not accounting for how sexual priorities and Frame shifts as a couple matures. The most glaring shift is of course maturing men’s SMV comparative to their wives’ will almost always be an order of magnitude above that of their wives’. As I laid out in Preventive Medicine, at this stage of maturity the task for wives becomes one of keeping that husband in the dark about his real SMV status; the concern being his sexual disinterest in her and him coming to a realization of his SMV and he leaves her for ‘younger, hotter, tighter’. Whether this is an actual threat is often inconsequential – unless that guy is so thoroughly Beta and ridiculous he’ll overtly acknowledge it – what occurs at this phase of a woman’s maturity is either a passive form of Dread or a feeling of regret for not having better optimized Hypergamy for herself so late in life.

Most men (i.e. Blue Pill Betas) never make this connection and blunder through their peak SMV years with a wife whose late-life competition anxiety sounds like nagging most of the time, or else it’s a possessive Frame grab with the latent purpose of keeping him focused on “her needs” rather than coming to understand he’s in the best position to capitalize on his SMV in his lifetime. This is actually part of the Blue Pill, feminine-correct plan for maintaining an optimal Hypergamy (or at least the impression of it) for women.

I’ve mentioned countless times on this blog that men’s peak SMV years are generally around the age of 34-38 depending upon how well he’s established himself in a variety of ways that contribute to it. As Red Pill awareness grows I (hopefully) expect more men will be able to capitalize on their moment of clarity as well as use this peak moment to enjoy and choose what’s best for themselves and their futures with regards to women. When men reach this peak it is generally a point at which women are also at their most necessitous (i.e. the Epiphany Phase). This simple matter of logistics also contributes to that man’s peak SMV in the form of making his commitment a valued commodity – presuming he’s built himself into that peak in the years prior to it.

My hope would be that men simply forestall any and all monogamous commitment until this phase, but for the men who find themselves in this peak phase while married, it is the most opportune time in which you can push the envelope with your wife from a Red Pill perspective. One grave error I think Athol Kay has made is in his “mindful attraction plan” – a feminized, feminine-correct watering down of his previous version’s attraction plan – his emphasis is to not go too overt or exaggerate a husbands SMV or make a Red Pill Alpha impression so threatening that it causes dread in his wife. I would argue that this is precisely what he needs to inculcate in his wife, and particularly if, up until this phase, she’s firmly dictated the Frame of their relationship since marriage.

I should add that this advice isn’t meant as some form of punishment or a big ‘get even’ with a man’s wife, but rather, a man pressing his SMV advantage at this point, to the point of instilling dread, will form a more solid attachment with his dominant Frame being the primary one – which is something his wife has likely craved for their marriage since the outset.

What YaReally (probably inadvertently) is revealing here is that women of lower SMV are far easier to attract and keep attracted than high (peak) SMV women. As women age that SMV advantage decreases, but the majority of men – and particularly married Beta men – still believe that their older wives and lower SMV women require the same or more attention to maintain that attraction.

Feminine-primary social conventions build this into a man’s Blue Pill conditioning so he believes that a marriage “always requires a lot of work” before and after he’s been married. This is why Athol’s Blue Pill advice of not overdoing the Alpha is so in error; it proceeds from the same sentiment that women need security during the part of a man’s life where he’s at his SMV peak and she’s at her most necessitous. A man’s “Burden of Performance” is then distorted by the Feminine Imperative to be defined as how well he will can quell his wife’s insecurities about him being in the best SMV status of his life.

Pop culture likes to call this effect “wife goggles”, but that’s a euphemism for how feminine-primary social conventions have conditioned men to feel a need to pander to their wife’s insecurity. In doing so they self-defeat any positive effect that this natural dread would benefit him and his relationship with his wife. If a man makes a conscious choice to limit himself in the phase of his life where he can best capitalize on his peak SMV this lifts the burden of a woman being the focus of him having to do so to make her feel secure.

And all of this has been about married men; feminine-primary social conventions have a whole set of social dictates intended to get a single man in this phase of life to willfully limit his own options. This is why we get shaming tactics and presumptions of ego-centrism for men in this demographic. This is why they’re called commit-o-phobes; because the hope is that these men will feel some measure of inappropriateness about their natural sexual impulses and choose an older women as a choice of mate. A woman who, again, is at her most necessitous and insecure about her future in the SMP or her long term prospectives.

725 comments

  1. The whole dynamic is why my Natural alpha friend is able to bang older reasonably ok women while for me to target younger women under 30 is more high-risk, but higher reward.

    Older women will throw themselves at him and I wince on learning who they are when he points them out. But for them it’s a kind of last hurrah, they get a fun, confident guy who doesn’t really give a shit, he gets….a bang.

    Game is critical not just to bang but to have better relationships and target women you truly want not just what you can get or settle for.

    One of my plates who I have written about before was insistent she wanted to have male “friends”—ie orbiters. After pushing back on this I finally shrugged and said “ok”.

    She seemed surprised. I continued…”And so will I with other girls…”

    Her eyes widened, she suddenly started laying conditions—I can’t bang them. I laughed and shrugged. I’m not banging anyone right now. My other plates are away. She then launched into a plea that she would not “Share” me… I laughed and changed the subject.

    This was “dread” in action. She banged my brains out immediately after so aggressively and then later asked if I was ok or pissed at her for some reason….dread.

  2. “Pop-psychology would have us believe that women in their late 30’s to early 40’s are in their sexual prime. This may serve to increase the self-esteem of women finding themselves unable to command the male attention they did in their youth, but nothing could be further from the truth. ”

    This is the megaton nuclear explosion that guys women everytime they step out of their homes. Nature is not your friend.
    Tho always says their solipsistic hamster in in rampage.

  3. *on a rampage….

    So to assuage the hamster and sooth the dissonance the blame is placed on men, who (chose not to) don’t date their 30+ female age mates…

    The harpy cries of unfairness are heard all over the world, in all forms of media…

    It’s a good run to be a (RP) man!!!

  4. EVERY SINGLE ONE IS DATING A 21-23 YEAR OLD.

    You want to know why? Because they can… At 31 you over played your hand, it is that simple. Now, I’m an extreme, mostly because I have my own band, but at 55, I’m still enjoying those 18-24 year olds – mostly because I can. At some point I may want to start a family, but that won’t be in the US. American women over value themselves and I have no intention of handing over everything I’ve worked for to some crazy woman. No thanks – when I want to start a family I’ll go out of the US and take up with a couple of sweet-young-things…

  5. I tried using MMSL to fix a marriage going downhill just before he went all fem-centric but not long after he started having females as his moderators it was time for me to find another way. I also found out that my wife at the time contacted him for counseling unbeknownst to me at the time. It soon dawned on me based on conversations with the wife that Athol forwarded all private messages between myself and someone I considered a mentor helping me. Needless to say she is now my ex and so is MMSL. When a female moderator “knows” more about T-replacement more than a doctor and his patient all based on her husband (mind you she forced him into TRT and says she saved their marriage) well it was time to go. YMMV but it’s now about being the Captain of your ship with your wife’s permission.

  6. Sounds to me as if epiphany 31 and Ya really have something in common,whining about how hard things are nowadays.

    What has been overlooked is that a 55 yo OMG in a 35 yr LTR w/ 58yo wife some wrinkles but no cellulite pussy Nailed down his 23yo hb8 at the age of 20,stealing her away from a 27 yo alpha,and kept her through all the bs of growing up together.

    I am quite sure I could do this again at 55 but the 23yo seem stupid now and Mrs box and I have alot in common.

    Now she could have kept with playing the field till 31 epiphany but I was pretty convincing in my dream story.

    Life isn’t lived in the social media,once two people couple up and reproduce there is no time for that stuff seriously.

    I do totally agree on the alpha and passive dread,also better remain game savvy as this part of relating never stops.

  7. Rollo:

    “My hope would be that men simply forestall any and all monogamous commitment until this phase, but for the men who find themselves in this peak phase while married, it is the most opportune time in which you can push the envelope with your wife from a Red Pill perspective. One grave error I think Athol Kay has made is in his “mindful attraction plan” – a feminized, feminine-correct watering down of his previous version’s attraction plan – his emphasis is to not go too overt or exaggerate a husbands SMV or make a Red Pill Alpha impression so threatening that it causes dread in his wife. I would argue that this is precisely what he needs to inculcate in his wife, and particularly if, up until this phase, she’s firmly dictated the Frame of their relationship since marriage.

    I should add that this advice isn’t meant as some form of punishment or a big ‘get even’ with a man’s wife, but rather, a man pressing his SMV advantage at this point, to the point of instilling dread, will form a more solid attachment with his dominant Frame being the primary one – which is something his wife has likely craved for their marriage since the outset.”

    Well I think it is incumbent on someone (..pick me), perhaps necessary for (someone) as a duty or responsibility to this demographic to point out put in a plug for the manual of dread that BluePillProfessor put out on on this topic.

    Athol Kay went and distilled a hell of a lot of manophere writings and books in writing his original non-feminized stuff. Then he compromised his message as it relates to Masculine Strategy.

    BluePillProfessor didn’t cave to the feminine and tells how to push the dread envelope. And he also did a great job of also distilling a hell of a lot of foundational work in the manophere (240 footnotes–as academics are prone to give credit) in order to write his book. The good thing is he, like another Married Red Pill icon (Ian Ironwood) is actually a writer by trade, (so it is good writing).

    He doesn’t call it “A Man’s Guide to Dread, Seduction and the Long Game” for nothing. It is straight up Masculine imperative. All about instilling dread (mindfully) by purposefully making his frame be the dominant one for himself. Whether it is the primary one depends on how he kept Frame originally and if he dug an inappropriately deep hole in middle long term marriage and whether the wife can give up her dominant frame she never wanted in the first place.

    I doubt Rollo has read it (and I don’t advise him to actually spend the time to because it is geared toward recovering from Betatization), but it foundationally rests on everything Rollo advocates for LTR, esp. in regards to tactical dread. There is no lean into the feminine bent to it. And it is all about masculine self improvement and game, with a tactical employment of dread. Each chapter is a level of dread to master.

    For any of you unaware of this work:

    https://bluepillprofessor.wordpress.com/2015/05/22/hello-world/

  8. try that again…

    ..point out put in a plug for the manual of dread that BluePillProfessor put out on on this topic.

  9. I found this on YouTube and is bang on for this topic (it was shown on UK terrestrial television in the late nineties).

    It’s a mini-series, docu-soap, that follows the lives of post wall Liverpudlian female night club goers:

  10. Keeping your 70yo wife attracted to you simply doesn’t come with the same obstacles modern men trying to keep a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016 attracted face.

    The fact is, keeping a 70 yo wife attracted to her man is surprisingly difficult. By age 45, over half of couples have sex less than once a month. 28% of Americans over age 45 report they had sexual intercourse once a week or more in the last six months, and 40% report having intercourse at least once a month. That leaves 60% of people over 45 who have intercourse less than once a month.

    There was a site at Kinsey that showed the frequency of marital sex by age, but I can no longer find it. As I recall from that site, couples have dead bedrooms by age 70 except for a tiny fraction (< 1%).

    So, low SMV is irrelevant to a woman's attraction to men. A low SMV woman doesn't want to fuck an unattractive man, unsurprisingly. I'm sure that health issues enter into the equation as well.

  11. There was also this gem: For women aged 50 and higher, older age is related to a decline in all sexual behaviors: 5% per year of age for penile-vaginal intercourse; 7% per year of age receiving or giving oral sex. (National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior, 2010)

  12. This guy is excellent. Giving redpill a huge empirical backing.

    He also had a longer debate with SJF types:

    One of the more lucid things I’ve seen for a while.

  13. I’m 33 and I’ve noticed lately the difference in behavior and attitude coming my way from women of various age groups. 40+ women are usually neutral or flirtatiously trying to see if they still got it. They don’t have it. Fast approaching the wall late 20’s-post wall 39yr olds often come at me with a thinly disguised hostility and bitterness. Teens to still hot late 20’s non-single mommies are a) shy intimidated eager to please, b) playful openly flirty eager to please, or if ready to settle down mature mid-late 20’s they’re sort of business-like in that they are concerned about wasting what pre-wall time they have left and often are filled with dread regardless of what I say or do. This is the male equivalent of a 21 yr old hb 9.

    Girls my age are pretty much worthless to me. They’re post-wall, used up, often beyond out of shape and with baby and relationship baggage to boot. I’m coming into my prime and have money, career, confidence, Victorian mini-mansion and not a care in the world and I’m fuckin lovin it.

    This balance of power holds true regardless of locale. However, it’s even more pronounced given that I’m in the upper Midwest but originally from the east coast (Philly) and a well traveled combat vet with life experience that these girls can’t fathom. It’s like shooting ducks in a barrel. If you’re in a badly pozzed big coastal city and you can do it….get the hell out of there asap. Go live amongst people who still know what it’s like to farm, hunt, turn a wrench, and start a family before the age of 35.

  14. between 29-32 and EVERY SINGLE ONE IS DATING A 21-23 YEAR OLD

    It bears pointing out that this is exactly the “Half plus seven” age rule of thumb.

    Divide the man’s age in half, and add seven for the lower age limit of women that a man is likely to be able to relate to and keep in a successful relationship.

    28 ÷ 2 = 14 + 7 = 21 years old
    32 ÷ 2 = 16 + 7 = 23 years old

    These men are simply going for the best deal they think they can get and keep rather than “settling”. More power to them.

  15. @Rollo

    “We don’t see any articles telling women to grow up”

    Of course we don’t.

    Everyone here knows that the very very vast majority of women (over 25) are quite old enough thank you very much.

    No one wants them to be any older – and they all know it.

  16. I needed this blog 20 years ago. At that time there was no red-pill, but there was gangster rap and hip-hop, which had RP themes. The Master P’s music saved me. He had a few raps about not being a Cap’n Kirk (ie beta provider to a manipulative bitch) and being a player and not getting played. Not getting played, was basically some alpha MoFO behaviours. My wife still reminds me about our first date, when I refused to pay the whole bill for dinner. Being a player isn’t totally RP, so we discussed it at the table, but it was RP enough that I held frame. I still just laugh when she brings it up.

    I divorced at 34, strong/fit, and my career going strong making more money than ever. I traded my ex in for a bit younger, more physically fit, smarter, and educated woman. I didn’t keep in touch much with my ex, but my mom did for some reason. She tried to get back with me, but no deal. There were lots of women out there, and it was more exciting chasing after new tail then trying to get the knots out of the old one.

  17. @ BC

    “Half plus seven rule”.

    I’m 48, main Plate is 31 so right on the lower age boundary.

    One question does this mean I have to dump my 46 year old Botox/silicone enhanced milf plate and my 44 year old ex fitness model plates as they are too old?

    I’d say for me I’ll make my own rules as follows.

    Lower age limit rule – As young as I can get as long as she’s over 18.

    Upper age limit rule – strip her naked and apply “boner” test.

    Simple really!

  18. Need to add that the for the upper age limit test, even if they pass the boner test..

    Menopause – natures self limiting upper age limit, I just don’t like the way post menopausal women smell!

  19. Heheh
    I fondly remember after University coming home and hooking up with a long time interest of mind. I was 27 and she was 18, from inside my close social group, she had been a student of mine. Her n count at that point was 1. The most fantastic ass imaginable atop mile long legs. An incredibly feminine and not yet fucked up beautiful young lady / girl. We went out with each other for 2 years.

    Holy shit did the girls in my age group ever flip their shit. “AGENT P, you are a cradle robber!”, “Well I do call her baby a lot”. I got all of those lines, “you’re afraid of a real woman”, “you are afraid of my accomplishments”, “you are just playing at being a boy, you’re not mature enough”, blah blah fuckin blah. “Well actually ladies, she has the nicest ass within 10 miles, she is super nice, very pretty, and I get to fuck her almost every hour when we are together, very very enthusiastically, so sure, I am an immature, intimidated man boy who’s dick is drained and a smile is permanently fixed to my face, you got me. Oh and I don’t have to play fucking psychologist to spend more than a few hours with her listening to all of her accumulated “life experience” bullshit.”

    A good friend of mine was sort of double dating with one of her friends at for a time as well. We had an entertaining night once when he and I could overhear them talking about us. “Is it bad that we go out with older guys? Ahhh, NO!, what about the sex?, holy fuck it’s incredible, I didn’t know it could be like THAT!”

    I happily took the heat from all the epiphany and wall crowd for the duration of my relationship with her. Talk about a dread and pre-selection bomb going off.

    MMSL: Well I have long said that Athol saved my ass, if not my marriage, but it is shit now and you can see it in the forum activity, not nearly as vibrant. I have no doubt he can do a lot to help marriages but he sure as shit is not helping men. The place is over run with women so sure enough it’s purple pill as shit. From time to time I comment there and I now sound like one of the grizzled old guys I used to look at with amazement.

    In fact I was spouting off some boilerplate RP truths there not long ago that today would be considered very strident shall we say over there, and a few posters who had no idea of my history actually tagged me as a troll because I was calling out some born again virgin who was trying to rewrite her own history to recapture some Beta bucks AFC she was losing due to the old “He found a tape of me having a gang bang and taking it up the ass from four guys and that wasn’t me and I don’t do that any more and how can he judge me like that”.

    That I had the temerity to openly criticize a woman’s motives and tactics and put them under a harsh light as a cautionary tale was a big no no for lots of posters. Which sort of tells you everything you need to know about that place now.

    It’s funny because the lady moderator crowd on the one hand wanted to jump on me with a bit of tone policing, but on the other hand I was just being straight up Alpha with them in terms of “correcting” the situation, and they all shut up and quietly give me “insightful” badges without saying a word. It’s the “new girls” who never knew what the place was like before who flip out because they have not experienced a proper male environment in their lives nor witnessed healthy masculinity, only tone policed FI ready “Correct” thought. i feel sorry for those ladies because if their marriage is reflected in their posting habits, they sure as shit ain’t RP.

  20. Well this didn’t post the first time.

    This OMG (72) still occasionally has young women stalking him. The wife notices. I’ve been Red pill since about ’62.

    BTW this has been going on since I turned 28 or so. On one notable occasion a lesbian (her partner was not amused) was deeply attracted in a restaurant where I was with the LTR for take out. She came up to me wanting to know why she was so attracted.

    The LTR was never interested in Betas. She has often said that. So at least to some extent she knows the territory.

  21. @forge @yareally @culum @hadb @othergrain @scray @sentient @blax @PUA

    FR

    Stopped by work earlier in the day. Boss is there, and the same guy I gave advice on a month ago. Dropped some rp truths on him then, gave him some advice on text game. Anyway he’s back, and having issues with another girl.

    Details aren’t important…what was important was the vibe. I told them a bit later on that my boss and myself were like the little angels and devils on people’s shoulders in cartoons. My boss, she’s the angel, I’m the devil. She’s keep saying stuff about “Nah, he wants to get a woman his age (30’s) and settle down.” and I’d always slyly whisper to him “who wants a woman your age…when you could have a college girl….” and “the answer to every problem with girls is…get more girls lol…who wants one girl when you can have 10!

    The dude slowly came around to my side…I’d given him advice that worked before after all. My boss gave up in exasperation “WELL, I guess you really don’t want to settle down then do you.”

    Muahahaha. Come to the darkside skywalker.

    Also, I’ve vaguely chatted with her about some of the girls I’ve met through doing this PUA stuff, obviously not that I’m doing PUA, but just things like tell her the story of how I met that asian girl and went on an instadate, and how I got that black 8 at the mall trying to impress me when I rejected her over bacon lol.

    Anyway, part way into this conversation when I was chatting with the other guy about girls she just says “Hank you have too many girls.”

    lol. such a stud.

    Left, saw girl entering car. Easy open with my “Hey, you were at that Halloween party this weekend right?” But hesitated. I left. This made me very mad. Should have opened. It was so money.

    Sigh

    It was good though in that it was a situation where it felt WEIRD *not* to open a girl. I’ve gotten to the point were I’ve rewired my mind like that. I’m also prepped now to open a girl going into a car…kind of like how I briefly opened the asian girl in the cafe…then the next time I saw a asian girl in a cafe a couple days ago I actually sat down next to her and ran game on her for a few minutes…and now I know how to turn that all into a pull.

    Drove to gas station, picked up a condom. First time I’ve gotten one. First time I’ve gone in field with one in my pocket.

    Went downtown in good city. Nobody around.

    Okay, well I have a long walk to get to where I am going…there should be some people up here soon. I hear some guys yelling…okay good. I’m getting to the nightlife area of town. 4 guys up ahead. Walk further…and there is nothing. Hardly anyone. Black club always has guys outside…its closed. Another closed bar. Another. Everything is closed. I go to the bar I went to on my first FRs…and its closed as well.

    Shit. Well I guess I can’t do anything. Head back.

    I notice there are a few people mingling down a road. Isn’t there a bar there? I investigate. Ahead of me is a super slutty poison ivy in a too short skirt and her huge boobs (prolly fake) just have pasties on them. She’s with a james bond looking dude. I follow them in. Ends up there is a costume party here.

    Its a basic bar, not too big. Has a bar area, some tables, and some pool tables. Bar is mostly filled up, I sit down at one of the few available chairs.

    Yup

    Feels a bit awkward.

    Open the guy next to me. Do street clothes costume bit. He’s warming up. Tell him the free beer story. He loves it, he’s instantly warmed up. Exchange names, move on.

    Do this with two more guys — costume story, then free beer story. This works on everyone, but its especially good on guys. The last two guys clinked their beers on mine and did cheers. They all thought it was cool that I was that ballsy to bullshit my way into the costume party (oh yeah, slight change I made…I say now that you HAD to have a costume to get into the party, so I lied and said my streetclothes were actually a costume — this makes the story more interesting and makes me more of a bad ass) and that me exploiting the scavenger hunters for free beer made me a lovable scoundrel.

    Steal this shit if you want to — I’ll write it down in detail if you want it. But the costume party/free beer are great stories that will help if you want to make friends with people fast.

    Chat up a guy who I *think* is a patron…but ends up he’s a bartender…The fact that he actually WORKED there was telling. He’s a manager for bands. Tells me a funny story from all tour. Like I say though, he’s a bartender. But a shitty one. Later on he says “Hey, once it hits 11, I’m just gonna get trashed okay.” He smuggles weed, drops acid, and is an overall irresponsible asswipe. I didn’t mind this at the time…but later on he gave me reason to.

    Bunch of girls. I open a couple…guy is not a people person, but his girl is engaged. I slowly shift around to chatting up everyone in the group. A big thing I learned here, especially for places where I live where people are in groups and AREN’T out to meet new people, is just to stick in the group. Sometimes people will shut you out, but a lot of times they will just mingle around. Here they were at a pool table, so everyone is constantly moving about — they haven’t formed a circle they can lock you out of. If you just hang in there you can eventually chat up everyone, get people alone to chat, etc. This happened here.

    A black girl is there. I’m not attracted to her…but I almost always get along with black people, especially girls. We just have a good vibe together. Fat chick comes up. At some point, she accidentally knocks black girl’s beer out of her hand. I accuse her of being violent. I self amuse into the ridiculous…eventually I say she’s a notorious murder. I ask her what she does when she isn’t murdering. She says she thinks about murder…Here we just lock eyes for a long time as she keeps rambling.

    Go to bar with black girl and fat girl. I see what they are drinking. I ask to try it. Black girl doesn’t want to give it to me “I don’t know you. Are you diseased?”

    “Yes, I have all the diseases.”

    She decides I can have some if I pour it in my beer bottle. So I grab her drink…and take a swig straight from the bottle. She’s like “hey, wait what? I said WATERFALL THAT SHIT, don’t drink it”

    Fat girl looks at me. I look at her back. We stare

    and stare

    and stare

    my eyes are starting to get hasy. This is the longest staring eye contest I have ever had.

    I’m seeing rainbows in my peripheral vision.

    uhhhh gotta keep my eyes open

    just a little more

    I blink

    “You’re good at this.” I tell her “Do you always get into staring contests?”

    “Not since middle school”

    “Ahh, so this brought back a bunch of good memories then?”

    We chat a bit. She says something about how she’s “weird” or didn’t want me to think she was weird.

    Punk girl. Run my routines. She’s a little interested. She’s a tattoo artist. I ask her what the craziest tattoo she did was.

    “Well, I did a tattoo on my coworkers dick.”

    “Really. Was it like normal sized or big or tiny?”

    “I don’t know. I wasn’t really paying attention.”

    “Not paying attention?!?! I think when you are tattooing someone’s dick that’s EXACTLY when you should be paying attention!”

    She’s not into this but I think the reason is that the dude next to her was her date. They left together at the end of the night. So what I think happened here is our chat at first was neutral enough, but as we started chatting about dicks it got too sexual for her.

    Chat up new guy. Run costume story. Follow him to his group. Pretty good looking white chick in skintight unicorn costume. But yuuuuuge nose. yes yes, I know. Pointy elbows.

    But seriously.

    yuuuuuuuugge.

    So I start my free beer story (already told the dude the costume story). And.keep.getting.interrupted. Again this is the usual, people in groups don’t want new people.

    A Blonde girl in their group interrupts me.

    “Excuse me, that was very rude. Im telling a story here.” I tell her.

    I turn to others “Is she always like this?” Blonde girl is walking off at this point.

    Someone says that blonde girl and unicorn girl like each other or something.

    “ahh, so you are lesbian lovers. Now I understand what that unicorn horn is for.”

    other guy says “yeah…a DILDO.”

    start my story…blonde girl shows up again. Now she’s intentionally trying to interrupt me and is making a big deal of doing so.

    I simply take my hand, plant it on her face, and push her away.

    “What are you doing? Don’t touch me.”

    “You keep interrupting me. I’m telling a story here.”

    Should have said nothing and just continued the story.

    Don’t remember how all this ended, I know though she put her hand on my face and pushed me in retribution. Later she just stared at me kinda blankly (she didn’t seem mad or anything) and we locked eyes for maybe 15 seconds then she walked off.

    Two other dudes enter group. Biker-type dude (though not the same one from a few days ago) I think is unicorn girls boyfriend and other dude is blonde girls. Biker dude goes up and slaps both girls on the ass for a picture. The dudes were also fairly drunk…

    In fact, a lot of the earlier guys here were very drunk. I noticed that from 9-10:30 or so there were a lot of predrunks…they showed up already toasty. Later a bunch of people showed up around 11-12, then it cleared out after that point.

    Anyway, this group isn’t really working for me.

    Two more couples show up. One is an average couple and the girl is fat, the other a pretty nice redhead with a handsome but very short guy. I chat them up. Ends up the fat chick made her own costume from shit that was already in her closet. Redhead is…you guessed it…poison ivy. She told me all about the work she put into it, how expensive it was. She was mad that the fat chick just pulled HER costume LITERALLY out of the closet when she had spent hours on hers. So I say

    “yeah, all that time. You slaved over your costume…poured your soul into it…then this chick just whips her costume out of the closet in a few seconds…

    …and it still looks better than yours.”

    Redhead BLOWS THE MOTHERFUCK UP

    lol

    is this how you neg?

    lolololool

    This is cool…because it slipped right under the radar of her bf. I hadn’t yet done enough to get him to be concerned about me, however I got me some pretty serious value to the redhead.

    Only realizing a lot of this stuff in hindsight, but that neg was a big deal.

    Lone dude. Chat him up. He is a cool ass motherfucker. We chat for a long time. I learn a lot of stuff from him:

    *He works at the bar next door…its closed now…but he tells me about it and when to go.

    **He confirms my suspicions about where I live. Ends up he’s been to a far away state that I have too. In that state people go out specifically *TO* meet people. By contrast, people here meet people at school, work, and mutual friends’ places *AND THEN* go to venues JUST TO HANG OUT WITH THOSE PEOPLE. They are very different cultures. Here, people stick to their groups and strangers can go fuck themselves. In that other state, you can go fuck yourself if you’re gonna be a loner lol– people will come UP TO YOU and invite you into their group. Very very different vibe…and nice to see another guy confirm it for me

    ***I later learn that night that he’s a musician in a band. Awesome. These are my peeps. The drummer at the venue where people bought me the beers was the same way. They are all super chill dudes. They are loners, don’t chat people up unless prompted, but they don’t look like losers at all. They are completely at ease being alone. They don’t look desperate or sad or anything. Very zen. But they are amazing conversationalists when you do open them. They give a lot of value, they are very emotional. Which gave me a revelation.

    I think I’d like to go on tour with a band. Don’t really want to go into music but I know already I get along very well with musicians and they travel a lot like I would like to. So once I find the right people and get my shit together (read — health issues) I want to see if I can go gypsy and ride around the country for a spell. Regardless, I know now to hit up more music venues and try to hang out with more musicians. Also, musicians are an AMAZING source of stories and DHVs and shit. How cool are you when you can just list off bands “Holocaust Cowboys? Yeah I’ve heard of them. Steve the drummer and I trashed the Hilton in DC”

    I’ll look into that.

    Band guy leaves. He’s enthusiastic about us meeting again. I’ll stop by his bar on the weekend. He closes then which is AWESOME. If nothing else, I can stop between venues to get a state boost from chatting him up.

    New group of girls comes in…they’ve got some cool costumes. They leave as soon as they arrive. They return later. I approach them. I start to talk to one girl. She’s white…and very attractive. I don’t like white girls much…but there are certain ones I quite like and she is one of them.

    and her eyes. So green.

    I chat about her costume. I recognize it, its from a video game. She’s happy I know this. I ask her about her eyes…are those contacts? They are. That’s why they have this faint eerie glow to them. Through all this we had locked eye contact. I remember very clearly she did the thing that Julia Roberts did in that clip with James Franco, where her eyes dart back and forth between his eyes.

    She did the same thing to me.

    We lock eyes for about 30 seconds as we discuss her costume.

    I switch over to the others and guess their costumes.

    Girls are wanting to leave again “There is nothing going on here.” glowy eye girl says. I ask them where the heck they think they are going to go, since nothing else is open. They don’t know. Seems strange to me. Their costumes were cool. LOTS of effort, especially on glowing eye girl. Why didn’t they look into this more?

    I want to work them more, I want them to stay, I like this white chick. Then DJ comes on microphone “Okay dudes lets party now. Whip those dicks out and rock out with your cock out.”

    Apparently, one guy actually DID whip out his dick. The girls are disgusted and leave.

    Shit.

    I walk off after them. They’re outside…maybe I can work them then. It will be quieter anyway. I follow after them.

    Hands grab me by the shoulder and pull me back right as I exit the building.

    “You’re gonna have to go back in or toss your beer.”

    Its the lazy bartender.

    “I’ll be back in just a sec. Just hang on to this.”

    “Yeah okay. I’ll put it inside or something.”

    Guy clearly isn’t gonna do it, but I have to go.

    Follow the girls. They just run off for some reason — I’m fairly certain it wasn’t me, there was just something out in the road or whatever.

    They go around the corner and into the concave entrance way to a shop. I go and talk to them. They are still in a huff over the dick slinging.

    “It says he’s right around the corner” the glowy eyed white chick says, tapping at her phone

    “yeah, there he is, its the uber car.”

    They walk off to the car. I ask for her number.

    “I’ve got to go, the car is right there.”

    “It will just be a sec” I say in a deflated wheeze

    They get into the car and drive off.

    Very disappointing. That was the one chick I really liked there the whole night as it turned out and we had a good setup at the beginning with that long eye contact..which I KNOW was lasering from the fact that I was thinking “wow, I like this chick”.

    Head back in. Bartender said he was going to bring my beer in but I don’t see it. He just tossed it.

    Not going to go into a long psychoanalysis of myself, but I’m pretty sure I’m wholly or partially a psychopath. Its similar to how I think I am a natural…I just never had many interactions with girls growing up, so it never developed…but there are these tells that show up in my FRs and how I act that make me believe that I have latent natural tendencies that were never fully developed. Same thing with psychopathy. I was raised in a decent place, little confrontation, so I never really turned into an especially violent or sadistic person. However, there are still tells.

    Once I babysat a tiny scruffy yappy dog that had been abused in the past. It would basically grovel around people and kind of flinch when you got near it. This was like a terrible itch to me. Like a scab you just have to tear off. So I had to hurt this dog. I couldn’t leave marks, so I filled the bathtub with water and pushed it under. It would kick and yelp and it just pissed me off because of how weak and pathetic it was. I remember wanting to just crucify it to a tree and watch it die.

    Needless to say after that one day I stopped watching the dog and I don’t do that anymore. That’s an extreme example and nothing like that has happened before or since. I’m actually very compassionate to people and can’t stand watching people be hurt. That’s why I can’t stand watching horror movies. When I see what the killers do to innocent people I want to douse them in gasoline and watch them burn alive, fillet their eyeballs with a razor…but here you are seeing those psychopathic tendencies arise here — the compassion goes into anger goes into intense sadism. Its similar to the innocent dog, its just that it being a guilty person gives me free reign to hurt these people and not feel bad about it.

    Don’t worry, I’m not going to hurt anyone. Everyone has darker sides and this is mine. Its controlled — largely because I KNOW about it (hence why I no longer spend time around yappy dogs for instance). And its actually a GOOD thing since sociopathy/psychopathy is a part of the dark triad. Its something I can work on later to bleed into my game a bit.

    So much for the short psychoanalysis…

    Anyway, this bartender going against his job, disrespecting me and tossing the purchased product of a customer flipped one of my switches. I’m not offended by hardly anything. But I have these little triggers, usually over small shit, and its generally over going against someone’s job or purpose. Hurting the innocent, or kicking someone when they are down is another trigger.

    No no, I didn’t throw down with the bartender. I just noticed that after I realized what he had done, my whole “this is a living human being switch” flipped off. The guy is dead to me.

    In hindsight, I realized what a powerful thing that is. What if I can learn to do that at will? What if I can do that when I talk to chicks? Be able to just flip off that empathy switch when I need to call girls out on their shit…..

    hmmmmmm

    The dark side beckons….

    hmmmmmm

    Anyway, fuck that dude.

    Chatted up a few more people. I hung out with the black girl a bit. Buuut its kinda ehhh now. I mean, there were never really all that many girls here. Glowy eye girl was the only one I liked. I think its time to go.

    Leave. Redhead I nuked from orbit is outside the door, with the fat girl’s bf.

    “Hey Its Hank.” she says.

    “You remembered my name.”

    “Yes, I remember everyone’s name. I do performances so I always have to remember names.”

    We chat about this for a bit, then

    “Are you taller than me?” I ask.

    I walk up right next to her, and put my hand up to the top of my head and move it over to hers. She is.

    “I’m wearing heals though.” she says and laughs

    She has an accent.

    “You aren’t from around here are you?”

    “No, I am originally from Scotland. I can usually hide my accent, but it comes through a couple of beers in”

    Her accent REALLY comes through then. I burst out laughing “That accent!” and walk off laughing. Come back a few seconds later.

    We chat about accents. She’s very good, and does several from all parts of Scotland and Ireland. Then they head back in.

    I start to leave…but redhead isn’t bad for a redhead…hmmm…

    I head back in. Chat up a few more people. Its still ehhh in here…and redhead is nowhere to be seen.

    What’s the point?

    Head outside. Gonna go home.

    But it just doesn’t feel right

    Go back in. There she is. She’s with her bf and the other couple playing pool. I go join them.

    Now this part is interesting. Both couples are slightly touchy feely kissy kissy at this point…but not too much. Hmmmm. I’m not really good enough to poach the redhead from her bf now, but I decide to just stick in there and get some references.

    Redhead’s bf is standing in front of her, she’s sitting down behind him on a stool. I ask the bf

    “Who’s winning?”

    “We are. 25 to 0.”

    “I also helped” the redhead says.

    “well, really it was mostly me.” the bf corrects her.

    “ahh, so you are the cheerleader.” I say to the gf

    “yup”

    “You’re the secret weapon I see. You’re the real reason you two are winning.”

    “I am.”

    I chat up people as they play the pool.

    Strange things happen.

    Redhead just happens to bump into me as she gets up to take a shot.

    When her bf goes to make a shot, she goes and leans over to show him her boobs…but the thing is…you can’t really see her tits. They are tightly covered, so it isn’t like you can see down her shirt or anything. However, when she leaned over, she also wiggled her ass around a bunch…which was NOT visible from where her bf was standing…but WAS visible to me standing behind her.

    Continue chatting. I realize bf looks like a movie star. I tell him this. I can’t remember the actor’s name but I describe the movies he is in. Bf doesn’t know. Bf leaves to go take a shot.

    Redhead sits down on a stool. I sit down next to her. I bring up the movie star comparison again. She doesn’t know either. She gets up to take a shot, bf takes her place on the stool.

    “Don’t talk to my girlfriend again.” He says coldly

    “Excuse me?” I’m like, okay, we’re just talking.

    “I don’t want things to go any further.”

    “Ah no man. We’re just talking. I talk to everyone. That’s all. My name’s Hank by the way.”

    I couldn’t remember if I exchanged names with him before. But seemed the right thing to do here.

    I offer my hand. He shakes it.

    “My name is Daniel.”

    “Nice to meet you Daniel.”

    He gets up and goes back to the pool table.

    I chat up with the other couple. The girl says “Oh, there they go again, they are always going at it.” referring to redhead and bf.

    I hope no one saw…

    because I smiled…

    the evilest smile

    lol. First I realized…this guy was weak. He should have just madeout with his girl to begin with. That’s all you gotta do. If you see a guy working on your girl, just walk up, put your arm around her, give her a passionate kiss real quick, then turn to the guy and introduce yourself. You should have enough control that just by *being* there the girl is 100% into you. He *tried* doing that a bit earlier, they were a little touchy feely, but it didn’t really work.

    funny what all happens when you just stick in there.

    Him having to TELL me to stop was him blinking first in our mental staring contest. He reacted first. I was completely calm and composed…but HE is reacting to ME. Just ME being there, standing around, is so unconscionable that he has to tell me off. Here is insecurity, here is him reacting to me, here is all the building blocks I could use to tank his value in his gfs eyes and raise my value.

    If her knight in shining armor is getting antsy around me…what does that say about me?

    The second deeper realization I had was…you can absolutely poach a girl right under her bf nose. Yes yes, I’ve heard guys chat about being able to work over a dude so well that he actually WANTS you to take his girl because you are so cool. Its different though to experience in person.

    I have to tighten up lots of things…but the basics are there..the neg was awesome…it doesn’t ping “hitting on her” at all…subtle as a whisper…then there is the brief outside bit…tricky, bf’s friend was with her…but you can use those little moments for some quick kino while no one is watching…work on bf more, I didn’t chat him up enough so I seemed like a stranger and a threat…but what if i had worked on him FIRST, get him to like me as much as the band guy did earlier…so now he sees me as a friend…he has no reason to get defensive…what if I came in with two girls on my arms, so it looks like *I* am taken and so have no reason to poach his girl…and what if I used one of those girls or a wingman to run interference on him..maybe to get one of those quick alone time moments with redhead…

    hmmmm

    The Dark Arts are as seductive as ever

    hmmmm

    Bounced over to other couple — they are the ones I followed in. He’s a cool dude, ends up we both know of this tiny ass motherfucking town that NOONE knows about. We chatted about the awesome food they have there. Chick didn’t say much…she’s just eye candy…says she’s studying to be a lawyer…but I think she’s a stripper currently. Just a hunch.

    He says they are leaving. I say I am too.

    I walk past redheads group. I tell them I am leaving. I shake the bf’s hand first “See you later Daniel.”

    He just says bye, doesn’t say my name.

    next, the redhead. I say only “Later” and leave off her name.

    “Goodbye hank.” she says.

    Shake the other two next.

    Well, ends up they are headed out too. So I decide to hang back a bit. Guy is at bar. He’s not in costume.

    “So are you supposed to be a hipster or something?”

    “Is that an insult?” guy is a little mad

    “Ahh, I see you came in without a costume like myself.”

    “No I was in costume. I was Harley Quinn.”

    Lol. Now I remember. He had a great Harley Quinn costume, complete with fake boobs lol. I ask him about the costume…ends up he has a tradition where he dresses up as the costume that most girls that year are dressing up as. He said the best one was when he dressed as a cat, and there were about 12 cat girls at the bar. A girl came up to him “Hey are you making FUN of me? I feel like you are.”

    So he says

    “Yup, sure am.”

    lol

    He’s a regular at this bar. Get more info on it. Now he likes me. I’m pretty good at this whole pissing people off then getting them to like me…or at least not fight me lol…should work on doing that with girls…only get them to fuck me lol.

    Late now. Bar is def about dead, its around 1 here. It’s been 3 1/2 hours at that one venue.

    Now…FINALLY…I leave for good.

  22. Playdontpay
    November 1, 2016 at 3:03 am

    Menopause – natures self limiting upper age limit, I just don’t like the way post menopausal women smell!

    I can’t say it works for all women but I have kept mine in tolerable shape by keeping her excited. She looks 10 to 20 years younger than her actual age. She still lubricates quite well. Don’t let them dry up.

  23. Off topic but I’ve just put £1000 on Trump to win here in England.

    The boy in the bookies went boggle eyed and had to phone in for authority.

    Apart from the fact that it’s the first bet I’ve placed in my life, I’ve just realised that the only guys I can talk to about it are halfway round the world.

    It’s the same with TRP.

    It’s a lonely place to be sometimes when absolutely no one else gets it / are allowed to get it.

  24. Hank,

    Your FRs are as interminable as ever. Nice to see you doing better.

    And this struck me:

    He smuggles weed, drops acid, and is an overall irresponsible asswipe.

    Well I could tell you stories of a (well) misspent youth. There is nothing wrong with living like that. It wasn’t his habits that made him an asswipe. It probably came naturally. There are LOTs of alcohol only asswipes.

  25. @Rollo
    “Thus, well established men (with status, money, hopefully good looks, etc.) in their early 30’s are the prime targets and the more they exemplify her conditions for intimacy”

    This is BS, all of this puts guys on the Provider track. Some Older guys are able to attract the younger hotties because they learned the ropes in their 20s not because they went to Yale and got jacked (which are things you are supposed to do as a man; strive for the best). But that isn’t necessary to attract them, but it can increase you options by expanding your circles and you can use your accomplishments to fuel your entitlement. Yareally went over this at a PH.D. Level in your Tribes post.

  26. palmasailor
    November 1, 2016 at 4:33 am

    I’m American. I’m NOT with HER. I’m expecting another Brexit. I think you will do well. Especially if “everyone” is on the other side. The payout should be good.

  27. @M Simon

    Hank,

    Your FRs are as interminable as ever. Nice to see you doing better.

    Well I made this one all spiffy like…spent more time editing it so its less like I just vomited it up on my computer and more like an actual novel…and a little longer than a novel as well lol.

    Figured you’d like the extra editing on this one.

  28. @M Simon

    I was on the Brexit campaign.

    There are huge parallels.

    At 9:4 It’ll be a good night out!

  29. @M.Simon
    Ya know – a girl’s ideal is an Alpha provider. The two don’t usually go together.

    True, but that kind of guy is extremely rare and girls have so much abundance nowadays that you’re better off displaying Alpha traits because they literally have guys begging them to buy them stuff

  30. Rollo, thank you. Your posts, your books, your analysis, all of them resonate strongly with me. This one, including the married man area, feel so true and for those of us who missed our primes (35-40) and opportunities there, and remain in a marriage with a much lower SMV partner… well, the struggle is real.

    Lately the struggle has included her stating “You deserve better than me” to which I’m wanting to take the Alpha road and state “Yes, Yes I do” but I’m still living squarely in her frame… maybe this is my impetus to change that.

    Irregardless, thank you for your insight, your knowledge and your effort to spread it.

  31. @geraldhayne
    “Lately the struggle has included her stating “You deserve better than me”…”

    Have you read the previous article with care?

  32. I agree that dread is important in marriage, even though it makes the woman uncomfortable. My husband never ever panders to me, it’s just not his nature, and I know deep down if he did I would lose respect even though sometimes I feel “dread” which is not the most pleasant feeling in the world.

    I want to add though that I disagree with the SMV of men being 34-38. In my opinion it’s actually a bit younger, 29-33 let’s say is prime for men.

    Women who are under 23 want a “cool” factor in their men, not just men with resources. And it’s really hard for anyone to maintain that into their mid 30’s. I am currently 32, and when I was 18-24 before I met my husband I (and all my friends) were creeped out by over 35. The absolute prime men are 29-33 and have great jobs and access to/knowledge about “hip” things.

    If you are talking about women in the “epiphany phase” then I agree 34-38 is just fine for them. But they are apparently less desirable, so that should be weighted less.

  33. Enjoyed the article as ever, Rollo, but as someone who interprets your writing from a scientific / evolutionary POV I still feel you slightly underplay the importance of pure looks, the ‘animal magnetism’ card, if you will.
    Some men just HAVE this. Game, age & resource-related SMV increases etc. can only compensate for so much.
    Women will naturally be drawn to the top 15~20% of men looks wise (e.g. shoulder to hip ratio, test. & GH influence in facial bone structure – evolutionarily VERY important in attracting women), irrespective of age, within the pool of 20–38yr old men.

    Oh yes, And YAWN…. at the abundance of unsolicited tripe some guys are writing on here yet again.

    Nobody wants to read a TWO-PAGE ESSAY on how you (think you) are spinning plates and rationalizing your situation. Can we stick to objective discussion relating to the above blog-post, and at least keep the examples brief, guys?
    Don’t mean to poop on anyone’s parade, but guys who are truly in the correct frame and RP savvy don’t need the affirmation some here appear to be looking for…

  34. “I am 31 years old, and not looking for anyone…”

    Typical nonsense comment from a Western “educated” woman. Too busy with her Women’s Studies Degree to be concerned with trivial items like a husband and children.

  35. @Megawit:

    It is not a drum he beats in every post, but much of your objection is dealt with in the way Rollo makes a distinction between attraction and desire.

    Looks generate motivated prospects, but they don’t close the sale.

    That said, those top men are still playing in a somewhat different league, as their job isn’t so much to generate the sale as it is to not fuck it up. They have to be good at handling shit tests right off the bat, as the prospect will be getting right down to finding out if the product is as good as it says on the tin.

    What they don’t have to do is spend a lot of time on the phone making cold calls to generate prospects. They always seem to just wander in off the street saying, Oooooo, shiney!”

  36. Ha!

    “I am 31 years old, and not looking for anyone,….”

    Typo!

    Correction: “I am 31 years old, and looking for anyone,…”

  37. @Major Styles:

    The claim is a prophylactic defense against a valid charge she knows in advance will be levied against her.

    The lady doth protest too much, methinks. She is dissembling. I don’t accuse her of lying because she is trying to make herself believe it as much as she is her audience, but it is still, at heart, a fabrication.

  38. @walawala

    Classic!

    Perfect Dissonance

    Give her 2/3 texts she sends, be a mystery, chill throughout relationship high and lows, always say less than necessary, dread…

    BTW: Kudos to the earlier asystolic relationship analogy. Let the mayhem ensue, and guess what? She’s in to us more.

    You’d think game would be intuitive, easily implemented, since it requires men to be imperfect. We must walk away when we want to, give less commitment to more girls, spin plates i.e. give less to more women, do less than you’d think necessary. Be the asshole lazy bf. And…as the women age, they become more responsive to these techniques because of their plummeting SMV. Both plate-spinning YSG/LTR OMG, RP should be effortlessly replicated.

    Consider how the unresolved, dissonant 7th note holds her attention, resolution ends the song.

    Dateline yesterday, 3:30 P.M.

    Missus cracks a Sam Adams before dinner. I’m walking past the icebox, think of getting a Coors Light (go ahead, laugh, I’ll need all I got again tonight). I pass by, I want to see her reaction.

    Wife: Would you like a beer? I’ll get you one.

    I agree and sit at the dinner table. We finish dinner and two kids go canvas the neighborhood for treats, my 14 y.o. passes out candy and does homework.

    Wife and I now on couch in other room. We’re now sharing a vodka lemonade I made.

    Her: I don’t know how to say this. I didn’t finish yesterday. I’m really…(trails off).

    Me (Softly): Cool.

    I turn to her, super lightly brush my lips to hers, hand down lightly on her button. I start breathing heavier, she responds. I never go all the way.

    Me: I’m half way there. In 2 minutes I’ll have my cock in you and in 5 you’ll be cumming.

    Her: I’m super horny but I don’t want to come yet.

    Me: I won’t let you.

    We go downstairs, start and in ten minutes I have my pants back on, she’s still buzzing for resolution. I walk away, back upstairs. We bang for 5-10″ every 30-60″. Then take it to the bedroom.

    She showers, I get in, shave, soap her up, and fingerbang her. She yelps as she’s so sore, I focus on her clit. Grab her shaver and shave her clean. I get her hot, then walk away. I get out before her. She’s done, I tell her to get on the bed missionary. She does willingly.

    After 5 ” she asks me if she should come. I agree and we finish together. I robe, immediately to the kitchen and serve myself ice cream. She comes out in a few minutes.

    Her: Yum, I’ll have some ice cream too. Oh, wait. I need pain reliever first. I’m so sore. I don’t think about it when we’re together. I should take a few days off.

    Me: Cool.

    P.S.: Surgeon apologizing to RN’s about being late this morning.

    Me: Rule number one, never complain, never explain.

    Surgeon: EhIntellect, whoever told you that was not in a happy marriage.

  39. @Rollo: . . . women of lower SMV are far easier to attract and keep attracted than high (peak) SMV women. As women age that SMV advantage decreases, but the majority of men – and particularly married Beta men – still believe that their older wives and lower SMV women require the same or more attention to maintain that attraction.

    This seems to run counter to observed female attraction to bad boys. I.e. the bad boy boffs the HB8+ with little or no effort and keeps her as a FB with little or no effort.

    SMV might play into initial attraction but I think rollercoaster needs (RN) are primary when measuring effort of maintaining attraction. Excessive RN is a “high maintenance woman”; some RN is expressed monetarily but most is in time and effort. As others have pointed out, the most effective fulfillment of RN is dread combined with immersive copulation. Of course the measurement of RN is subjective to the man doing the accounting. BP is letting the FI convince you RN means “relationship needs”.

    I still counter YaReally’s quoted assertion: E. Pound said “Make it new!” It’s all new to the under 25 crowd. The 35+ women have been there and done that so it’s more effort to find that new thing to make their eyes roll back figuratively or literally.

  40. When I look at my female peers who are also are 30 like I am, alI I see is baby-rabies. Those women don’t look even at me to be honest, because I look five years younger. And I’m not interested in them either btw. I’m 30 dating a 23 y.o. Younger, hotter and above all: easy going. I don’t want to look at credenza’s at IKEA and talk about babies like 30 y.o women want to. Dating 30 y.o is something I might do in about… 7 years. It’s probably how nature intended it to be

  41. If there were equal numbers of women and men, men and women on average would be in a heterosexual relationship for the same amount of time. so it all averages out.

    That women is probably living in NYC or some place where the ratio favors men.

  42. @Rollo

    unless that guy is so thoroughly Beta and ridiculous he’ll overtly acknowledge it

    This is my stepfather. My mother’s psychologically abusive nature has never changed, but when I stopped allowing myself to be the target she needed a new target. Enter my Beta stepfather who put a stupid grin on his face and bobbleheaded dutifully as my mother told me he was a Beta right in front of him. Then she wonders why I don’t want him helping me with buying a new suit or advice on… well anything other than his professional speciality of investment. I look at his life and who he’s married to/putting up with shit from and want to actively avoid any and all personal advice he might have.

    He’s a super nice guy and pretty smart, but oh lawdy is he a lost cause. I’ve resigned myself to just acknowledging it and moving on with my life.

    @Forge

    Yeah I’ve been watching videos of that professor. Canada has gone from being the nice neighbor to well beyond San Fran levels of smug passive aggressiveness largely centered around appeasing feminists and SJWs. It’s good to see they’ve got some men left up there (in academia, no less) who won’t tolerate that shit overrunning free speech.

  43. re ‘wife goggles’

    one real manifestation is far-sightedness at age 40+ (reading glasses)

    puts that Old Married Chick in perpetual soft focus

    blindness = lower standards

    ftw?

  44. There is Rollo, I believe a mistake in the fifth sentence of the paragraph beginning with the expression Pop Psychology: your write ‘sexually active’ but, if I am right, you meant to write ‘sexually attractive” – the spell checker will not of course pick up the missing attr.

  45. “Wife goggles” do exist. I have them because I love my wife of 19 years. When I look at her, I think “she’s a solid 8, maybe a 9.” But I know that this perception is overstated by my feelings for her. How am I sure? Because when I look at her in the mirror, or if I use photo editing software to flip her face symmetrically in a picture, I see a woman who is a 5, maybe a 6. I challenge all married men to try this. Take a picture of your wife and flip it symmetrically (so that the left side is on the right and vice-versa) and see if that affects you perception of her attractiveness. It’s funny because the mirror image woman, who looks different than my wife (and about whom my judgment is not clouded) looks much less attractive than my wife.

  46. Perhaps she’s divorced, perhaps she’s a single mother, but at 40+ the importance becomes sex as empowerment for her. She still wants to know she’s ‘still got it’ and since none of the men of the age she’d like to be in an LTR with are biting she’ll be more than happy to get with a 22 year old ‘hunk’. They’re easy pickin’s since none of the girls their own age are interested in them.

    Yep, which is why the Cougar thing, despite all of the FI cultural cheerleading, is at its base totally unimpressive — since when has it been difficult for the more physically attractive women between 38 and 50 to sleep with much younger men on an NSA basis? It’s the easiest thing in the world, and therefore is no achievement for the women whatsoever (any achievement has to do with maintaining her looks to some degree, which is good as far as it goes, I guess). And it’s also not really anything new. The Graduate, from 1968, featured the same theme, really — young men fucking attractive and willing older women has been a thing since forever. It also makes good sense in that both parties are on the weak side of their SMVs, and both are looking for NSA sex — so it “works”, I think. Well at least the women tell themselves that this is what they want, whether that’s true or not …

  47. Sheesus, this article is so dead-on. Whether they’re aware of the Wall or not, it comes for all women. And the shaming of men to wife them up is designed to be an air bag, to lessen the impact of hitting the wall. Not how I want to spend my time…

    I’ve had a former FWB mention that to me. Last we spoke, she was going out to the bars, and she said,”It isn’t what it used to be, 5 years ago.” While still attractive, she’s seeing the men she’s interested in leaving with women 5-10 years younger than her. And at some level, conscious or not, it’s registering with her that the SMP is real, and it’s harsh.

  48. @ novaseeker

    Ann Bancroft was banging Hoffman to keep him away from her daughter. When that failed she attempted to expose the affair to the daughter. Mom considered Hoffman not good enough. he was banging her willingly.

    The whole “I studied art” scene exposed this canard.

  49. Great piece Rollo. Thank you.

    I often chuckle about this with friends – and I’m not saying anything many OMGs and YSGs haven’t learned already on their own probably – but simply getting your ass to the gym to lift weights hard 4 to 5 times a week as a new priority of your time and schedule, and then later going out to buy a new set of dress pants, dress shoes and dress shirts for work, and perhaps a dress jacket yields some very interesting female behavioral responses, whether she is your girlfriend or your wife. Just my observation.

    I don’t know what set level of dread that would even be, if any. Probably nothing (level 0). And not all women are the same in where their head is at. But in most cases AFCs and frustrated OMGs who start doing this note a favorable response from her regard for him.

    However, at the same time, I think a growing number of men, young and old, are pretty disgusted by now with the broken record assertion of men being wholesale “commitment-phobes”, when the data completely contradicts this.

    What’s more interesting is that we then see published articles like this one that not only acknowledge that it is women, not men, detonating marriages (50%+ divorce rate, 80% filed by wife no fault), but that it is men who must do more in response, and follow a list of some of the WORST ADVICE imaginable to prevent such divorce from occurring:
    http://www.uplifting-love.com/2013/08/80-percent-of-divorces-are-filed-by.html

    For example.

    1. Tell your wife that you love her.
    2. Show your wife that you love her.
    3. Listen to your wife.
    4. Talk to your wife. (more communication!!!!!!)
    5. Physically acknowledge her (non-sexually, you guyz!!!)
    6. Anticipate her needs.
    7. Remember that your wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.
    8. Let her recharge her battery. (Usually batteries are not included)
    9. Help her soar.
    10. Mind the small and simple. (Buy her a candy bar? WTF man)

    Becoming her personal butler and servant will not work.

  50. @ novaseeker

    Just finished launch failure article. My favorite solipistic line:

    “These days, I am a stable adult professional—a practicing attorney, capable of common sense—but I still know how to live life on the edge.”

    God almighty, is she insufferable. No wonder no dude can commit.

    What a heap of mental jiu-jitsu. Now at 41 she vaingloriously promotes her “common sense”? F@#k, I expect that out of my 9 year old!

    Life on the edge. My ass. All she did was lie there for ~30 years getting banged. Some accomplishment for a pretty girl to get banged. Now she’s only getting NSA bangs. No kids, no future, all retrospection, all sophistry.

    She’ll be calling a distant niece to pick her up from lumpectomy surgery soon as there’s no one else. Just wait. The bad shit is comes fast at that age.

    We never regret the disasters we don’t experience. Happy to have met and banged my wife since she was an 19 y.o. undergrad. Wife goggles? Probably. What would have been the alternative? Shudder….

  51. @Forge@Sun

    Indeed the chip-on-shoulder of protecting Candanavian exceptionalism from being tainted by the South is ever present. Feeling the need to repeatedly pause to qualify as not being related to The States must be tedious. I do wonder if the self-congratulatory posturing will wane once the rewards from a Pyrrhic victory in the race to the bottom come due.

    Aside from that, the one thing that was repeatedly made clear is that the only argument – and I’m being generous framing it as such, the gender-benders seem capable of formulating is that “my (or by proxy) feelings matter more than any truth”, which is probably too generous still since it begs some question of Truth, which is of course also subject to the Feelz. I suppose all downward spirals by definition are fueled by circular logic.

    Having spent way too much time in the SJW strongholds on both coasts, I was reminded of why I abandoned academia for a male-dominated, market-driven field, in spite of my disposition and intellectual faculties being much better suited for the pursuit and propagation of knowledge. Oh well. Being in my early 40’s means I would likely have been part of the last generation of academics to survive the gatekeepers at the Ministry of Truth anyhow; just keeping my head down while quietly inserting nuggets of truth while waiting for the pitchforks and torches.

    Interestingly, the least punchable person on that panel – aside from the professor in the hotseat, was actually the transexual. lol.

    The parallels between this pronoun vs free speech “debate” and the rest of the toxic tendrils of femininized progressivisim are obvious as they are plentiful. But being privy to years of red pill truths, open discourse, and savvy tutelage by the likes of the RM crowd, I also forget that my level of awareness is 10x to that of the average man just trying to get by in a culture that is constantly trying to humiliate and degrade the entirety of his innate sense of masculinity, identity, and purpose. I just wonder if any meaningful revolt against this toxic power structure will happen before (or without) a long, protracted series of dead-cat bounces along the bottom.

    I regularly encounter good, hardworking, intelligent men my age who are lost to the tide. They cannot or will not push back and have long forgotten how to unwind the the increasingly twisted and conflicting rules of this reordering of reality. I think that inculcating conflict-aversion into boys is one of the most destructive forces of the FI – or whatever we want to call it. In my own experience trying to overcome the deep blue and Nice Guy training, this remains to be a sticking point, yet I still feel miles ahead of most men I meet.

    One of my old-school professors, a real throwback man of experience, used to say “there is no life in a world without friction”. He was not being esoteric either. He quite literally meant from PIV sex to hierarchy of power, to the laws of physics beneath it all, the collisions and conflicts are why we are all here and how we will continue, or not. When these xe/xir/xim or any other fringes of emotionally aggrieved desire a world without such conflict, if even just discourse in a climate controlled studio, they are calling for the end.

  52. @constrainedlocus

    Word, brother. Less is more.

    It helped as a youth and now to have a preternatural disgust for all things non-sexually feminine.

  53. @theasd

    There was a site at Kinsey that showed the frequency of marital sex by age, but I can no longer find it. As I recall from that site, couples have dead bedrooms by age 70 except for a tiny fraction (< 1%).

    So, low SMV is irrelevant to a woman's attraction to men. A low SMV woman doesn't want to fuck an unattractive man, unsurprisingly. I'm sure that health issues enter into the equation as well.

    welp, that seems to be because no man wants to fuck a 70 y/o woman, if the data about what men find attractive is to be believed.

    As a compromise; observations from the Field

    I will say that in my opinion a) girls have more going for them than just looks/youth and that b) this stuff “personality/assertiveness/feminity/whatever is probably about 30% of the deal.

    And so, while their youth/beauty peaks 18-26. I’d say the whole package probably peaks 24-31 or so. Think like a woman for a second about “who can I just get into a relationship with and make something work?” Chances are, if you’re honest with yourself, the chick will probably be around 25-26.

    Liiiike she’s young enough to be hot for the banging but she’s had enough experience to where she’s ready to be an actual companion.

    There’s some value to that. Women in their late 20’s and early 30’s, if they take care of themselves, aren’t bad at all.

    The observation that they’re harder to bed is seriously incomplete.

    More older women are willing to give men a chance if they don’t immediately feel the tingle. So there’s just a higher chance that one of them you’re with isn’t particularly sexually attracted to you, but is willing to give you a chance to make it happen.

    Young girls aren’t like that. If it’s not making them tingle, at least a little, immediately, it isn’t worth anything.

    So you’ll have more dates and shit with older women, but outside that small % who will just 0-4 hour fuck you, you’ll have to work harder. For young women, you won’t get many ‘dates,’ but whoever you get will be in that 0-4 hour demo.

  54. @Divmoy
    “Fast approaching the wall late 20’s-post wall 39yr olds often come at me with a thinly disguised hostility and bitterness”
    +1

    Generations of young women have been indoctrinated to apply only the most blunt of tools to problems created by that very same indoctrination. The dissonance becomes intolerable.

    What we are observing in these women is the innate looking for a way to express. All within an environment that suppresses the beauty and necessity of their unique biological purposing, while at the same time plying that same biology with sweet nectar. Nectar that should be rare, and earned.

    While the body knows the truth, it is subject to this environment. What we have created are kids in a candy store who have been given an inverted food pyramid as a guidebook.

    The result is, women in that age group are Type 2 diabetics. While it matters on some level how or why they got to where they are, the fact is they cannot undo their present disposition. They are Type 2 because of years of certain types of life choices. They can turn things around in terms of those choices going forward, but they will always be type 2; they have altered the way they process truth and circumstance.

    Aside from some tiny % who can actually reverse it, the rest are beyond repair. Thus they will always be subject to a constellation of associated complications due to their underlying condition.

    They are asking to be managed, to be led, but at the same time they have been told that they are strong and independent. So fuck off. Their achievements are valid, their failures are outcomes of systemic oppression, so they are ultimately victims, and thus recused of their responsibility for their present condition as well as future outcomes of future decisions. So fuck off.

    Since victims need perpetrators, this is where you and me come in. This is also where the devious dissonance flares up. Led by their feelz, which are in turn subject to the swings of Type 2, they see men (the visible ones, the rest don’t even compute) as both saviors and sinners, betters and equals, and perpetual reminders of what they cannot be – and perhaps even what they have squandered along the way, i.e.. moments of lucid peaks at the SMV chart and the relative positions we occupy. Its not fair!

    Yet they are still subject to their attraction triggers and innate desires. So while they are drawn to you, it does not alleviate their brewing conflict. This emotional volatility can be good, if harnessed and managed as YaReally goes into great depth about. But with Type 2 women, the attraction always comes with a side-car of forced reflection that is revolting to them.

    This candy store is a tenuous place for a man to enter. Which is why only the most unapologetic and unwavering frame must be applied. But then again, even with a good pair of gloves catching falling knives isn’t really a very fun or rewarding game to play.

  55. “since when has it been difficult for the more physically attractive women between 38 and 50 to sleep with much younger men on an NSA basis?”

    Yes. The only difference I’m noticing now vis a vis, say, 20 years ago, is that there appear (at least to me) to be more and more physically attractive women in that age group. Women are taking better care of themselves now, or more of them are. Plus, men’s thirst is at an all time high, so an attractive 45 year old woman can still pull a 30 something guy for relationships (maybe) and a young hot 22 year old man for NSA sex.

    It’s still quite easy for the attractive 38-50 set to get men to fuck them.

  56. Nova

    Yep, which is why the Cougar thing, despite all of the FI cultural cheerleading, is at its base totally unimpressive — since when has it been difficult for the more physically attractive women between 38 and 50 to sleep with much younger men on an NSA basis?

    I once destroyed a very full of herself 37YO who was boasting to me about how she “bangs” 28YO guys with “well that like me saying i bang 60 year olds”…

    Of course I slept with her an hour or so later that night, after ripping off her panties.

    So who taught who a lesson then? is the lesson… and complaining about what women are complaining about is silly…

    IRL there is no score keeping by anyone but you.

  57. “Note that the article features a picture of Wurtzel, who claims to look much younger than her actual 45 years, in which she looks like a 75 year old trying to look 55.”

    Good God. Wurtzel is actually 49. But, yeah.

  58. Scray

    The observation that they’re harder to bed is seriously incomplete.

    Blackdragon’s observation about fucking >33YO’s is based on the comparison of using the same metrics used to bang under <33YO's… which is completely in line with

    So you’ll have more dates and shit with older women, but outside that small % who will just 0-4 hour fuck you, you’ll have to work harder. For young women, you won’t get many ‘dates,’ but whoever you get will be in that 0-4 hour demo.

    and of lane changing and epiphany girls screening for BB…. Mo harder, mo work…

    Unless…. M Simon on the money as usual, “a girl’s ideal is an Alpha provider. The two don’t usually go together.”

  59. “Wurtzel is actually 49.”

    Ah well. I guess time flies when you haven’t even been paying enough attention to think, “Liz who?”

  60. “a girl’s ideal is an Alpha provider. The two don’t usually go together.”

    This is THE fundamental problem women have – how to get their AF and BB together, at the same time, in the same man. That’s women’s cross to bear. And it is a real problem for them. Most of the time, women end up compromising a lot on sexual attraction if they want to get married/be in a LTR.

  61. “a girl’s ideal is an Alpha provider. The two don’t usually go together.”

    They don’t ever go together.

    The whole sexual strategy of ‘alpha’ is premised around not providing lol.

    it’s cool tho.

    men have unicorns too….the super virginal slutty horny devil beast etc.

  62. “I’m in my forties, I’m a nasty woman, and I endorse Hillary!”
    (vote Trump)

    Now, that’s persuasion.

  63. As a 54yo man, the SMV concept is so intriguing to me wrt how I might optimally play mine and their’s to my advantage. Not too long ago a young woman speculated that I was 38. I have a very young face – got proofed in the bars until I was about 30 pretty regularly before that was SOP at every bar. I also have been getting the grey blending done to my hair to reduce my grey hair which is mostly salt and little pepper naturally. It takes 10 years off of me and is not detectable. People I know well see me and can’t figure out why i look so much younger, lol. After 2 years nobody has ever guessed I use the grey blending dye job, and when I tell people they are surprised. However, keep in mind guys that a bad dye job screams “try hard” and telegraphs lower value. I see guys with bad dye jobs all the time and I want to smack them. It’s worse than grey hair.

    As I attempt to come up with a game plan, a vision, a goal for where I go from here I’ve realized that I have a huge chance to game this system still at my age. Need to improve my fitness but I’ve done that before and know how to be fit. I need to get out of my head about all this shit and instead be in the reality of the SMP I’m in.

    And in that SMP, I get IOIs from young women regularly. I’ve been fucking about on the sidelines, stuck in a lot of thoughts and feelings that arise from the inside and let myself just spin up into a frenzy. It’s not helpful to me or anyone. And I won’t have this window for too much longer, maybe I can play it out another 7-8 years. Why the fuck am I not doing so?

    The idea I enjoyed the most in this article is that as a woman’s SMV declines, she’s going to feel dread more naturally if she’s with a man who is still high value. In a way, the more you try and win her over and cater to her, the more you are demonstrating low value as her SMV declines. It seems that in fact, a man should be less accommodating and attentive as she ages to not signal lower value.

    So interesting.

  64. @ thedeti

    “…there appear (at least to me) to be more and more physically attractive women in that age group.”

    Female obesity and attendant comorbidities is a significant cause of 30+ y.o. female surgery. It was rare to admit 250# woman 20 years ago. It’s every day now. Cholecystecomy is directly related to being female and fat and is in the top 6 of performed surgeries nationwide. We have million-dollar bariatric departments providing wildly expensive snake oil procedures to tend to self-willed obesity. Theses procedures are fraught with risks not sane person would consider; all the candidates are over 30.

    I respect your opinion here and apparently a lot of others do too.

    Women are not better looking than 20, let alone in the 50-60 years ago, most of this is obesity.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/women-overtake-men-in-u-s-obesity-rates/

  65. Yeah, Wurtzel aged horribly. Lots of drugs and booze will do that to you, though. When she was high as a kite in her 20s, and writing books about it, she was attractive — not as attractive as her touched up glamour shots suggest, but she was attractive when dolled up. Went downhill fast. The one thing I do like about that piece, despite how insufferable she clearly is (she’s always been that way) is that she’s actually honest about hitting the wall and how it sucks and how irritated she is by it — instead of the usual papering it over with “it’s fabulous, I’m in my prime” bullshit that you see coming from so many similarly situated women. Of course most of what she says is still bullshit, but there’s a glimmer of truth in there that is more than you get from most women who are writing about the same thing.

    —-

    Yes. The only difference I’m noticing now vis a vis, say, 20 years ago, is that there appear (at least to me) to be more and more physically attractive women in that age group. Women are taking better care of themselves now, or more of them are. Plus, men’s thirst is at an all time high, so an attractive 45 year old woman can still pull a 30 something guy for relationships (maybe) and a young hot 22 year old man for NSA sex.

    Yeah there’s more of them than there used to be due to better eating, more working out, and things like botox and plastic surgery, all of which have become much more common for people under 50. The country as a whole has become obese, but there are small pockets of people who during the same period have become much more health conscious and are much better looking in their 40s than most people are (and than most people ever were at that age). These women — the ones who are, say, in the top 5% for their age — have the easiest time cougaring.

    There’s a divorced 48 yo like this about ten feet away from me as I’m typing this — she’s in the top 5% or so for her age (so not competitive at all with a hot 25 yo, but hotter than almost all women who are her age, and competitive with women who are up to 5-7 years younger), and she pulls a lot of attention from younger men around here fairly easily because of her body. She works out daily, and dresses in ways that communicate her firm, toned physique quite clearly as well. This was not common at all among women of this age range when I was in my 20s, 20-25 years ago, because that generation didn’t eat as well, didn’t work out much, smoked more and so on, but it’s becoming more common in small pockets of the population — the parts that tend to be more affluent, in particular.

  66. @all

    re: SMV over time

    this is just an average tho.

    liiiiiike, just because you are 35 and a male doesn’t mean your SMV is peaking. you need to have busted a move in your 20’s and done correct shit. in fact, getting married often means sidelining your big dreams and aspirations to ensure that you never fully realize your SMV potential. instead, you’ll just remain at whatever level you were when you got married, or probably less so (get fatter, get schlubby, needy, no big promotion, etc.)

    I see schlubby married dudes all the time talking about how they’re peaking now and i know it’s bullshit. they’re shells of themselves lol.

    the reality is that most men do not realize or attain their potential.

    just like a woman who is fat when she is 23 isn’t going to have the SMV of her thin self at 28. Her peak SMV will probably be then.

  67. Scray

    The whole sexual strategy of ‘alpha’ is premised around not providing lol.

    Wrong… unless you aren’t ejaculating maybe?

  68. @ novaseeker

    Back to the superzip idea, our culture pulling apart. Want to find a hottie 40-something? Best search based on zip code.

  69. @sentient

    yes, because that’s what people mean in the manosphere and evo-psych by providing….ejaculating.

    godspeed on the mission to define everything under the sun as alpha tho.

  70. “Women are not better looking than 20, let alone in the 50-60 years ago, most of this is obesity.”

    Selection bias.

    There are more fit women, who are themselves fitter, than there were 50 years ago, and there is an obesity epidemic.

    The population is splitting into two distinct demographics, with little to no spectrum (childhood obesity is now circa 20%) between them.

    What you see depends on where you are.

    ER docs see quads, snow blowers and bandsaws from a different perspective than the general populace, so tend to view them more negatively.

  71. Prime Directive Scray…

    The idea I enjoyed the most in this article is that as a woman’s SMV declines, she’s going to feel dread more naturally if she’s with a man who is still high value. In a way, the more you try and win her over and cater to her, the more you are demonstrating low value as her SMV declines. It seems that in fact, a man should be less accommodating and attentive as she ages to not signal lower value.

    So interesting.

    Scribblerg… glad you are feeling better.

    it is an interesting post – on many levels… just a few short posts ago the emerging consensus was don’t ever get married because your aging, inexorably lowering SMV wife is going to divorce rape your ass and take up with her numerously available orbiters…

    Now we are learning no wait… it’s not about her… it’s about how the man interacts with her… well now!

  72. @sentient

    was don’t ever get married because your aging, inexorably lowering SMV wife is going to divorce rape your ass and take up with her numerously available orbiters…

    Now we are learning no wait… it’s not about her… it’s about how the man interacts with her… well now!

    omg u sillies.

    during ages 25-40 the divorce rape threat looms.

    after she can’t have kids anymore and is post-menopausal, we just say — who gives a shit, have fun with your sexually unattractive (according to the SMP) “prize.” (who can still divorce rape you, altho her options are much less if you made it that far)

  73. There are more fit women, who are themselves fitter, than there were 50 years ago, and there is an obesity epidemic.

    The population is splitting into two distinct demographics, with little to no spectrum

    Exactly. One of the demographics is much more numerous than the other, of course, but if you’re in certain places like the superzips and so on it can be flipped.

  74. @Sentient – It’s a given that alpha selection is about best genetics, hence the ejaculation bit is implied. Beta selection is about material provision and that’s what we mean by “providing”.

    Just a hint – you are getting into dickhead territory again. Perhaps you might explicate a bit more without the snark cuz I think maybe you were trying to get something deeper.

    @Scray and Sentient – Is alpha really axiomatically exclusive of material provisioning? Like if you provision, you cannot be alpha?

  75. Sure. Selection bias re: trauma. I do see more tablesaw vs. hand injuries than the average Joe.

    Obesity rates empirically understood and by the strict per capita numbers are up. Way up.

    True, the demographics are splitting, low class and middle class (soon to be low class) and the top 20%. Obesity is a middle, low class issue more than upper class.

    I guess if I hang out at peak gym times in Miami and game there I’d have selection bias too, albeit in reverse. But how many scenarios nationwide contain that financial and physical demographic?

    Great talking.

  76. Scribblerg

    Let’s not get all MMSL forums now…

    Is alpha really axiomatically exclusive of material provisioning? Like if you provision, you cannot be alpha?

    It is all about your frame and motives… and actually having the means to “provision” using Scray’s definition…

    Are you in scarcity or abundance? Are you trying to get something? Are you trying to hide something?

  77. “since when has it been difficult for the more physically attractive women between 38 and 50 to sleep with much younger men on an NSA basis?”

    Yes. The only difference I’m noticing now vis a vis, say, 20 years ago, is that there appear (at least to me) to be more and more physically attractive women in that age group. Women are taking better care of themselves now, or more of them are.

    Do you happen to live in some relatively safe and neat, mostly white and/or Asian, middle-class and/or upper-class neighborhood, by any chance? In that case, it all sounds plausible. On a national level, it doesn’t. The available data contradicts it, or at least I’m pretty sure that’s the case. The obesity epidemic is ongoing. Drug addiction rates are also rising, including prescription drug abuse (mostly painkillers) and heroin abuse. The white middle-class mortality rate is rising. In fact, the life expectancy of middle-class white women has been dropping for years. (This isn’t just an American phenomenon, by the way.)

    I think we’re witnessing a false contradiction, so to speak. (Badger has written about this phenomenon back when his blog was public.) It’s entirely plausible that a minority of middle-aged, middle-class women, mainly those on the higher levels of the female sexual hierarchy, are investing more time and effort into improving their mating market value, because they still see a reasonable chance of snagging a desirable man (or keeping one, if they’re in a relationship). The majority, however, are basically pigging out, getting fat, ignoring their looks, in effect, leaving the mating market. It’s basically a parallel of what’s happening with men.

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