Please, Breakup with Me!

Separation

The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much as I’d like to brag about having a previous essay for any occasion, I realized I hadn’t really covered this situation. Well, not in any great depth anyway,…

Bit of background: my girlfriend and I are both working people with solid jobs. Mine involves working partly in a lab a fair distance away from where we live, and I am gone for about 2 weeks a month. We have been together 5 years, and things have always been awesome between us. No major fights to speak of.

The incident happened last Saturday night. I was due to return the following Monday, and my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

Saturday was a typically busy day for me, and I was really tired and went to sleep early that night, as I had to get up early to get back to work. Get back to work Sunday, not checking my phone as I was running late, and noticed lots of messages and voicemails waiting for me when I got to the lab. All from my GF: in all the voicemails, she was in tears, and told me that she’d been out dancing in a club and that she’d been fairly tipsy, but not really drunk.

Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back. I don’t know how long, or any details, but she said she realized what she’d done and returned home as soon as possible, where she started calling and texting me.

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her – I guess I have to give her time, but honestly, I’m barely holding on looking at her in her state. I bear no ill will towards her, I just think she made a mistake in the heat of the moment. I’m completely lost. I don’t know how I can convince her that I can move past this, and that I still love her. Even I have been near tears at times these past few days. I need a place to vent, I don’t have many people I can talk to, and I need to write down my thoughts.

TL;DR: GF made out with someone in a bar while I was out of town and is an absolute wreck right now, even though I think I can move past it and work at getting everything back on track. I’m lost and don’t know how to convince her. I don’t know what she is thinking and I’m barely holding on.

Now, a bit later he gives this thread a status update.

UPDATE: I left her a note yesterday night in the kitchen, saying some things, we can work past this, etc. etc. She left a note at the same place I had. There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

The TRP subredd commenters have pretty much covered the majority of what I would point out. We’re dealing with an abject Beta here who, like most Blue Pill conditioned men buys into the touchy-feely ‘open communications will solve everything’ fallacy. He also feels it’s incumbent upon him to follow the ‘be the bigger man’ meme and forgive her indiscretions (at least the ones she felt guilty enough to relate to him in a text). And really, what’s to forgive anyway? It was only a kiss, right?

For a bit of context, they’re both 26, and are living together. We don’t really know much about how long they’ve been together, but if they’re roommates (always a bad idea) I’m going to guess it’s been at least a couple of years.

What this guy is experiencing is actually a very common rationalization strategy women will use when they are saddled with a man their subconscious recognizes as Beta. In The Medium is the Message I point out that there’s really no such thing as ‘mixed messages’ and that women’s behaviors will generally inform a guy as to what a woman’s real intent is. This is a basic behavioral psychology principle; behavior is the only true measure of motivation and intent. Thus, all the verbalizing of intent, verbal rationalization of purpose and ‘open communication’ simply becomes a part of the behavior which Red Pill behaviorists then parse as true intent.

Yes, this can get tedious in the beginning, and yes, it seems like a huge waste of time trying to second guess a woman’s intent, but understanding what a woman’s ‘medium’ is informing you about is a necessary step to internalizing Red Pill awareness. Once you’ve had experience in this parsing a woman’s behaviors with the behavior that is her rationalizations, it’s from this point that a Red Pill aware man can begin to predict behaviors and become more effective ‘readers’ of what a woman’s actions is somewhat reliably telling them.

In this guy’s case his girlfriend’s messaging is pretty clear to any marginally Red Pill aware man. Her behavior is born from a desire to escape the domesticity of their live-in arrangement and while she’s ‘out with the girls’ she seizes an opportunity to engage in an extra-pairing affair. Naturally, what we ‘know’ from what’s related is that she got tipsy and just kissed a guy. As you might expect, the commenters on the TRP sub jump to what predictably happened and the speculation is a lot more than just kissing.

Evo-Bio 101

However, all speculation aside, we have to make a few basic connections here. My first expectation is that she was likely in the proliferative (pre-ovulatory) phase of her menstrual cycle. I can’t be certain, but I’m sure if the guy were to be objective, he’d see the signs. Second, her behavior belies intent, and thus she seeks an extra-pair encounter and puts herself into an environment that will likely facilitate it. The kissing (assuming that’s all it was) is still a behavior that indicates she’s open to a short term breeding opportunity (Alpha Fucks) and is looking, even if just temporarily, to escape her domestic situation with her Beta live-in boyfriend.

That’s basic evo-psych/evo-bio Red Pill awareness of women’s nature. What gets interesting is when she feels compelled to relate her “infidelity” to her Beta boyfriend. The first presumption we make is that she’s felt some pangs of guilt for having betrayed his trust, but as we’ll see this is in error. We make this presumption because, like this guy does, we want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt when it comes to guilt because men and women popularly believe that women have a supernatural gift for empathy. It simply ‘sounds right’ to believe that a woman had an error in judgement whilst a little tipsy, but again we need to see this situation objectively from an evo-psych/behaviorist perspective.

When I break down this Beta guy’s rationalization process you’ll begin to see how this presumption of empathy and his Blue Pill conditioned mindset actually works against this girl, but for now we have to get a grasp of her feminine subconscious and how it reflexively interacts with the sexual imperative of Hypergamy. Most women’s confessions of extra-pair infidelity isn’t rooted in guilt. That’s not to say women don’t feel guilt or regret, it’s just to say that the functional purpose of the confession doesn’t subconsciously originate in feelings of guilt.

When women ‘cheat’, even when it’s non-sexually, their subconscious is testing the man it suspects is Beta which she’s paired with for confirmation of him being Beta. This is potentially risky, of course, but such is the prime directive of Hypergamy that if it is subconsciously suspected that a paired-with man is less that Hypergamously optimal the long term benefits of confirmation outweigh any risks. Thus, a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.

If nothing else, her confession of infidelity should be interpreted as a lack of genuine desire for a man – such a lack that it’s necessitated her behavior of engaging in genuine desire with another man. What rationalizations and verbal communications that follow from this point should be consider part of that woman’s behavioral set, and in terms of the Medium being the message, should be assessed as her medium.

So what do we see in this case?

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

he is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her…

On the surface we have the reports of this guy stating that she’s wracked with remorse and asking forgiveness. Sounds reasonable enough, right? No talking, cuddling, comfort and consolation, but wont look him in the eye, leaves early, comes back late. The guy presumes she’s broken inside and can’t forgive herself, but her behaviors imply that she’s disappointed in his reaction to just the marginal amount of information she’d related about her “infidelity”.

In his update we get this part, emphasis mine:

There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

In the post Gut Check I mention how men’s subconscious awareness subtly informs their conscious awareness by picking up on shifts in behavior, attitude and environment. Through our socialization, acculturation and Blue Pill conditioning, men are taught to suppress this natural, instinctual messaging that our gut is telling us. We do so because we fear being accused of male insecurity, jealousy and not subscribing wholesale to the equalist idea that men and women are co-equal rational agents who’ve evolved past anything like our baser natures.

Yet here, with the benefit of Red Pill awareness, we can see a perfect example of a guy suppressing what his peripheral awareness is basically screaming at him. This woman has essentially verified his Beta status by his default willingness to forgive her Alpha Fucks indiscretions with few (if any) questions asked. That test failed, she now hopes he will actually get angry enough to break up with her. Again, test failed, as all of his efforts are directed towards his unconditional love and forgiveness.

Please, Break Up with Me!

This woman is vocally telling him “please, break up with me”, but even this is ignored and rationalized away in his Blue Pill conditioned mindset that tells him all they need is open communication to solve her Hypergamous equation. She literally tells him, “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you.” This is part of her medium, this is her subconscious attempting to tell his subconscious how and why she’s done what she has, but his Blue Pill conditioning has suppressed any hope of that message being translated to him. Bear in mind here, this isn’t necessarily a case of a woman being intentionally malicious. Often this process is one in which she is only playing out as a semi-aware actor of her Hypergamous subroutine.

I’ve had guys relate many similar story in the same vein as this one. In all of them there is a subconscious hope that a paired man which a woman’s Hypergamous instinct has designated as Beta will just get it and understand that she wants him to break up with her. This may be overt, but more often it’s subtle. She’ll leave clues, breadcrumbs, for him to follow that indicate her infidelity in the hopes that he’ll become angry and break up with her. Maybe its an open diary, or an open social media account, or maybe just small convenient absences that are out of the ordinary, but the trail is one her subconscious hopes her man will discover and react to.

There are many reasons for this. The principle one being she desires an easily acknowledged reason for her exit from that pairing. Even if she’s been unfaithful women maintain large social support networks that forgive them of their sins – and this primarily because her girlfriends are living out the same Hypergamous subroutines themselves. It becomes rationalized away, chalked up to her “journey of self-discovery”, not something she was proud of, but a necessary part of her life in becoming “who she really is.”

 Blue Pill men get a sort of double jeopardy in this situation. Their conditioning predisposes them to believing that a woman’s communication is to always be taken as honest and at face value. This is really the source of a lot of Blue Pill mens’ self-inflicted wounds. They believe the notion that women and men are co-equal, rational agents whose evolved consciousness places them above natural instincts. Thus, they never make the Medium is the Message connection. Instead they consciously repress what those instincts, their own and women, are telling them.

When this instinctual suppression is combined with Blue Pill deferral to women and their false assumption that communication is the key to solving all intersexual problems, then you get into this situation. One where that woman desperately wants a guy to get so pissed off that her drops the hammer and leaves her, like she’d expect any Alpha lover to do. However, his Beta disposition makes this hope for anger an impossibility and the very Blue Pill conditioning that made him so acceptable as a provider and a comfort makes her exiting the relationship impossible without her feeling some actual guilt for having to take the initiative to leave him.

And this is where real feminine guilt becomes unavoidable. She’s the one who has to kill the puppy because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become angry enough to do it himself. This is where her real guilt and real resentment of him come into play for her. He’s too accommodating and to ready to rationalize away his forgiveness for her to avoid the bad feelings she’s hoped to engender in him.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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[…] The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much continue […]

Darren
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This is bs she not stressed about what she told him she stressed about what she didnt tell him!

greginaurora
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This is the point that, had he any balls AND a desire to keep her, he’d drag her into the bedroom and treat her like a two dollar ho without saying a word to her about anger or forgiveness. Make her feel owned. Make sure she knows that what she wants doesn’t matter. When done, tell her what she’s to make for dinner. If he’d used her properly, she’d love him for it, and the minor transgression would be impossible for her to repeat.

Grunt Gut
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similar event happened to me too about 8 years ago. It took 3 nights out of her. “accidently” meeting former boyfriends at friends’ parties for me to get angry enough to give her what she wanted. She too was on her knees begging forgiveness (the 2nd time) saying i didnt deserve to be treated that way. So the third time i realized, “oh… she lied.”

Nathan Briscoe (@nathanbrisk)
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Another story of a man losing it all because he did it “right.” How many steps is he away from begging her not to leave? She seems conflicted–she wants to be virtuous, but she’s not. She wants to be loyal at all costs, but her subconscious drives won’t allow her to remain loyal to a beta. I see this a lot in Christian circles.

peregrinejohn
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I dunno, I’m kind of hoping he makes her “kill the puppy.” Why give a rodent an easy out?

rugby11
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Good lord! It’s a minefield without joy and humor we are doomed.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A8vp6AdjlY8

Dunhill
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Rollo,

Is there a link to an archive of your older posts (besides Year One, Year Two etc.) ? Every now and then you hyperlink a sentence to one of your previous posts, which I can only find by scrolling down to infinity. Is there any way to read your earlier posts besides this one?

walawala
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I just dumped my problematic plate for this very reason. She had been acting up, left a party without saying bye to me and didn’t meet up with me after as we always had. Unlike the dude in the original post, I soft-nexted, went invisible. Then I noticed the same thing as original poster: she had gone to a club and a photo appeared of her and another guy whom I know. I ended it. Told her flat out I wasn’t interested anymore and not to contact me… In other situations where a plate has acted out…I just disappear. Either… Read more »

scray
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first mistake was to promise monogamy second mistake was to actually follow through on that promise third mistake was for providing for her her in such a way that she would get comfortable with the provisioning I mean, we’re probably missing some deets. He’s probably let himself slide a little bit. And shit, they live together which means the mystery is gone. I don’t really think this boils down to straight up AHA ALPHA FUCKS BETA BUCKS liiiiiike… chicks GET BORED. monogamy is BORING. Even Chad Thundercock becomes Chad Loafalot under these conditions. There is no option but the nuclear… Read more »

tsotha
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I’m left, once again, wondering what my dating life would have been like if I’d read something like this thirty years ago. In some ways the situation for men is worse today – when I was young it was still considered possible for a woman to be something other than blameless when she hurt someone though her own selfishness. On the other hand, there are resources (like this one) I never had. It took me far too many years to realize women are both less complicated and less admirable than society at large would have you believe. When I was… Read more »

kfg
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“monogamy is BORING . . . CHICKS GET BORED.”

Yes. AF/BB covers why they get bored.

Whether knowing why matters will depend on the context. Broke down to simple terms, running game in a pickup context only requires an empirical call/response understanding, but LTR requires actually understanding what a woman is actually saying.

Hue Jass
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Reminds me a time when I made up bullshit reasons for a girl to dump me. I once made a girl think I was a crazy super emotional, loose cannon who needs anger management so that the girl wouldn’t want anything to do with me. All I did was get angry at the smallest thing. It was something that I actually thought pissed me off, but then when I thought about it I knew I was wrong. But then I exaggerated that point that I had against her and sent her that text message. To this day the girl us… Read more »

The Diplomat
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Good one, Rollo. Such a classic scenario. I’ve seen this happen a number of times to my friends, but it only happened once to me in my later twenties. After a girlfriend of a year-and-a-half confessed to ‘kissing someone else,’ I remember being perfectly calm and asking “why’d you do that?” I vaguely recall her giving some overly long hamster response but I can’t remember what it was. I told her I’d need a couple of weeks of non-contact to mull it over and completely ghosted on her. Within the month, I started fucking one of her younger, hotter coworkers—not… Read more »

kfg
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@The Diplomat:

Alpha Widow achievement unlocked!

@Hue Jass:

The name Hubert Jass falls into the same category as Ima Hogg, and actual Germanic name.

Joe
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Yeah after some verbal warnings I got rid of this chick the next time she did something I didn’t like. I really caught her off guard, swiftly broke up with her and she had all sorts of BS excuses for her actions so I cut her off. Nothing as serious as above but she pushed things too far with me. I’m far from the most alpha guy around but I was the 1st to ever break up with her (22yo). She was obviously used to playing with complete betas. In hindsight without emotions clouding my judgement I don’t think she… Read more »

Scray
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No it doesn’t

Even captain alpha gets boring, eventueven, sorry.

Afbb does better at explaining initial attraction.

Blaximus
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CHICKS GET BORED.

El-Oh-El

Blaximus
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@ Scray

Seriously, give me a breakdown of why chicks get bored. I’m curious to know this.

…. and maybe it will help other guys also.

mersonia
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“Seriously, give me a breakdown of why chicks get bored. I’m curious to know this.”

Alot of guys are boring….

BC
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@Joe – Don’t know whether you are the guy referenced in the OP, but congratulations on taking the right step.

Now read this to help cement your gains and prevent backtracking:
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.jp/2013/01/mike-makes-breakthrough.html

Blaximus
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@ mersonia

” Alot of guys are boring….”

Do they even know that they are boring?

kfg
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“No it doesn’t . . . Even captain alpha gets boring . . .”

. . . because I said so, that’s why.

mega_guy
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Don’t know that Rollo’s original post is going to generate much controversy or comment here. Pretty obvious what’s going on … from us on the outside. #1 She’s bored. #2 It was a shit test … please break up with me #3 His behavior is pretty typical for a beta, too much time away/at work will lead to this sort of thing. #4 He’s career driven … if he was a Alpha Animal who “taught her a lesson” by fucking her into submission that would likely convince her to stay and give up the shitty behavior (till it happened the… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Women don’t feel guilty. Ever. The hamster ensures it. She’s isnt upset because she kissed a dude; is broken about being paired up with a beta.

All else is camouflage

Second guessing a woman’s intent is pretty easy; she is either trying to land/ maintain and alpha or she is using a beta for all the resources she can extract. That is the full extent of their biological programming.

tsotha
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I was fairly discreet about the whole thing (small community), but apparently she cruised by my house one day in her car and saw the younger woman and I making out on my front porch…

You and I have a different definition of the word “discrete”.

grayblackblue
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Hey Rollo, Great post. I’ve seen this implication of beta divorce several times and so I feel you definitely captured all moving parts in your post. I wanted to ask you about a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming”. Let me give an applied example. So I have this really close friend. He’s a fairly alpha type guy: powerlifting champ in high school, working at the government R&D labs as a programmer, decent looks, charming in social situations, kind of a loudmouth but otherwise he’s… Read more »

kfg
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@grayblackblue: ” . . . a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming.””

It actually gets quite a bit of coverage in the manosphere, and here at TRM, but there is a bit of phase mismatch in terminology. Your search term for today is “betafication.”

Sentient
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Scray

How long has your longest LTR been?

XD
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Here’s what **actually** happened. She did something with the guy. Maybe she banged him, maybe she only made out with him behind the club. The specific act in question isn’t relevant. What counts is that she was seen by an acquaintance who knew her and her live in beta, and she was on the bubble to explain herself or potentially lose the provider $$. Out comes the story about “feeling guilty” and she “only” kissed him. She has to cop to the “kissed” part in case the grapevine tipped off Betabux before she got him on the line. She can… Read more »

Andrew Halpern
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Yep. Once again, RT, EVERYTHING you stated is on point.

Hopefully he’ll gulp down the pride along with the red pill, NOW…and then bang one of her ‘friends’ ; )
It’s a virtual guaranfuckentee at least one will be up for THAT.

Ahhhh, the behavior of the XX ‘species’ = so predictable.

Learn and turn (that page)…

-Halp

Carl
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@ XD: Rollo already agrees. See Good Girls Are Bad Girls Who Didn’t Get Caught post.

walawala
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@Joe…..yah mine didn’t like the fact I dumped her….to paraphrase her response:

“If you want to ditch me for someone younger, find a better excuse you pussy!”

I laughed…

These girls act out in shitty ways and then when you call them out they really try everything to make you the meany…

Anonymous Reader
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@grayblackblue: ” . . . a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming.””

It’s a popular fantasy among women. Just about every plot of every romance porn novel ever written, in fact.

Here’s a summary courtesy of a recently popular series:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_trilogy

As kfg observed, the common term in the androsphere is “betaization”.

SJF
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@Greyblackblue As Rollo often says: “familiarity, comfort and rapport are anti-seductive elements in a man’s Game.” Problem is the guy in the original post (a beta with beta game) gave the girl everything she wanted, and so did your Alpha friend also. In a manner apparently in-congruent with his true mission. He flipped himself into beta. If he was truly alpha, he would have went his way with his purpose as a directive and and not compromised his mission/purpose. The guy in the OP fantasized about having his girlfriend at his beck and call for sex. He wanted peace, while… Read more »

grayblackblue
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Ok @kfg and @anonymousreader I get it. Betafication. Got it and that’s very clear. But the betafication examples I’ve read about sounds really normal. If you want to be in a long term relationship (which many men do) it sounds OK for a woman to try to feel reasonably accommodated so she can have her needs met. On that note, Heartiste has a great post about maintaining day-to-day alpha behavior in long term relationships. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/relationship-game-the-day-to-day-alpha/ But what I’m talking about is much more extreme version of betafication. Like it’s normal for a girl to throw a tantrum to get her… Read more »

grayblackblue
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@SJF that was a great response thank you!!!!

Edelweiss
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@grayblackblue I’ve seen similar situations play out two times recently. One with a co-worker, and one with my nephew. In both instances, the guys have a strong provider mentality, good jobs, and are family oriented. Both thoroughly beta. Each woman did everything to cut ties with the fathers, once they confirmed pregnancy. No major problems prior to that. One guy bragged about how often they had sex. Wonder how that looks in retrospect. Both guys pay child support, and get minimal visitation. It was obvious what the goals were early on. Pretty clear cut formula. Find a guy with acceptable… Read more »

Colbert
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@ Walawala, I liked everyone’s analysis but thought your angle offered the best way to handle it. I like the strategy of just keeping it vague and not giving her any closure on it. She had already fucked Mr. Chad or fully intended to fuck him very soon. She wants to paint Mr. beta as over possessive and paranoid so she can tell her friends what a psycho he was for dumping her over such a small “indiscretion”. She cares most about how she is perceived by others as opposed to caring how she is actually behaving. In this case… Read more »

Colbert
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@ SJF,

Thanks for posting all of that as it looks relevant to the topic. Should be an interesting little read (haven’t read it yet).

TAD
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Similar situation for me many years ago. I was traveling for my job, during my trip she was hosted by her friend and met a guy. When she returned she said she had to talk to me… The good thing was that she had the balls to breakup. I was destroyed and, as a perfect blue pilled guy, I started to blame and chasing her for a little bit before nexting. Now, with red pill awardness, I admire her for being totally clear and to break up without any kind of drama. P.S: After 10 moths of relationship, when I… Read more »

Auvergnat
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@Rollo The ONLY way a girl would want to be broken up with is that she has already found the next branch to swing and don’t want the responsibility to initiate the swing herself. Now maybe this is the case in the story you relate. Maybe the guy was so terrible a beta she NEEDED out but couldn’t get herself to initiate the break up because she doesn’t want the guilt of responsibility. I’ve definitely had that happen to me in the past in the form of an exGF becoming cold and distant and bitchy, desperately pushing me to end… Read more »

walawala
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@Colbert These girls hate HATE HATE being called out as cheaters….because they never want to be seen as the “bad” one…. Mine is now pissed that I “ditched” her. But she cannot accept it was because of her behavior and having an orbiter…so she’s tried to bait me into an argument over claims I have cheated on her—which is funny in itself because she’s a plate. The Red Pill has made dumping her much easier and more clear for me. Plate pisses you off, soft next…plate continues to act out and has orbiter…bye. Now, one thing that is in debate… Read more »

Artalpha
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Hi Rollo, I am a newly unplugged guy from Germany scared shitless by the changes my recent awareness has caused in my marriage. As a typical blue pill beta I related all my thoughts openly to my wife in the past. No wonder our sex suffered and was the arranged/negotiated one you talk about and which slowly suffocated her. Our sex life now has changed like night and day. But she seems to be figuring stuff out as well! She intends to go dancing with girl friends to feel the thrill of being admired by other men! She told me… Read more »

Colbert
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@ Auvergnat, “In any case she fucks up her relationship, but in no case she acted like this to start with as an attempt to get him to break up with her.” What makes you so sure of this? I wonder about BPD chicks and their hypergamy. With a BPD I think it’s all conscious and calculated/planned and thought out. For normal healthy women that had good parental bonds (particularly with a RP father) it’s unconscious. But what about those women who are in-between those extremes (poor role modeling or no father figure – but did bond with at least… Read more »

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@ Walawala, “…so she’s tried to bait me into an argument over claims I have cheated on her—which is funny in itself because she’s a plate.” YES. That’s my point with the whole cluster H thing – lol. She’s prolly not BPD but just a typical cluster H type. That is an example of simple projection which is a form of psychological abuse. According to SJF’s post it is just standard female evo-psych female wiring. If that is true then mother nature is truly harsh – lol. Good job on biting the bullet with the hard next. It sounds like… Read more »

Saracen III
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An unusual case.

The girl did more than kiss on that first encounter, but did less than fuck with abandon.
She felt the pull of the gaudy carousel and understood the downside, and her tears were real.

She was asking to be shrived. Brought back to his side. Given boundaries.
He had a 48-hour window to put her over his knee and spank her backside red.
Then to tell her to blow her nose, wash her face and come to bed, all melty and mended.

Too late now.
Don’t ask me how I know.

Auvergnat
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@ SaracenIII

So basically like you’d scold and punish a child who did some mischief and felt guilty about it…

I like it

Colbert
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@ Blaximus, I just caught some of the exchange b/t you and Kaminsky regarding the MGTOW guys from the end of the previous thread. I made a comment on the differences b/t the “hard and soft” MGTOW types, but this was regarding my own personal opinions on how these types digest the RP and why the hard types might have trouble moving on with their personal development until working through their RP rage. I would just like to add that this rage applies to some PUA types and married types as well. One beef I have with MOST of MGTOW… Read more »

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@Saracen 3— You’d treat this behavior like it was a naughty child who just knocked over a plant?

Girls cry when they fuck up….it’s a ploy for sympathy and to avoid any accountability.

This is the worst advice to give guys still confused about what the Red Pill is all about.

Colbert
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@ Blaximus, “Re: ” Losers “, I happen to agree that in life there are indeed winners and losers. I define a loser by his attitude. I’ve lost at plenty of shit during life, but I’ve never ever accepted and embraced the loss. I went back to the drawing board and learned how to win. I do not agree at all with any measure of mgtow, but guys can ultimately do whatever they want to do. But imo, your attitude will define whether you are winning or losing at life. Full stop. I personally do not ever cosign the ”… Read more »

Glengarry
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If not a home run, then many bases were taken.

I think greginaurora got it right. I would interpret this not quite as a notice to break up but as an ultimatum (probably not fully understood as one by the woman, b/c is the feelz). And as several here have said, the correct response is to be more alpha, not less. You don’t show her that she’s valued by simpering forgiveness, you do it by getting upset and punishing her. Which seems to be what she’s begging for.

Glengarry
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Btw, Rollo, is there some way to send you a private message?

Saracen III
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Women in relationships ARE children.
Men need to be attentive bestie, steely-eyed commander, big boofy Teddy bear and Death on Two Legs, changing hats without missing a beat.

The giveaway here is that she sent a text as soon as it happened,
Two-timing bitches don’t do that.

walawala
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@Saracen 3 : “”The giveaway here is that she sent a text as soon as it happened,
Two-timing bitches don’t do that.””

please explain. I don’t see a difference between texting right away out of guilt or waiting out of guilt.

Colbert
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@ Rollo,

I’m curious now about the MRAs’. You said something about one of their spokespersons being a feminist in her 20’s with a live-in beta boyfriend. Shoe On Head came to my mind but that’s not right is it? She’s antifeminism (I thought). Anyway, if they are all about equal egalitarian blah, blah, blah, then I guess they wouldn’t be RP. Just curious who you were referring to.

BK
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Rollo,
Timely article – 8 short vignettes on women who loved dictators and tyrants. These alpha dudes can and do get away with literal murder.
“She had it easy at first, because she wasn’t one of the wives. They met up two or three nights a week, on and off for thirty-three years. Even after he threw her husband in jail and seized his possessions. Even after his son raped her daughter. She stuck around.”
https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/eight-women-in-love/
BK

EhIntellect
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Speaking of LTR fitness, Sunday evening the missus progressively chills to me, avoidant, bitch shields up, won’t smile. She’ll want me to ask, pursue her with small talk, but I don’t. By the time the kids are in bed, I’m typing, listening to music. She walks out of the bedroom, glares at me and says at me “I thought we’d have together time, but why do I bother?” This is all one big luteal-phase shit test. With a wan smile, I nod. The next day is silent treatment. Kids to school, she blows out the door, no questions, no good-byes.… Read more »

Recovering from oneitis
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I have been reading stuff here for a few months and have come up with an alternative explanation of female behavior that isn’t so much a different theory as another way of looking at the behavior based on what I see. I call my theory the “looking for the best deal” theory. The way I see it, women are looking for the best deal at all times. (So are men, btw, but that’s another post). So this guy is in a LTR and he thinks everything is fine. But he doesn’t realize that the little hamster in her mind is… Read more »

thedeti
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I think some translations are in order here. “Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back.” Translation: “Honey, I went out dancing with the girls and went home with a guy who fucked me good, like I haven’t had since I’ve been with you. What the fuck you gonna do about this?” “She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did.” Translation: She is… Read more »

Sentient
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLO-pyKd4Y

It all went wrong with the Lion Taming… here

my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

Shit testing… fail.

Sentient
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Artalpha And quite honestly I am exhusted, since coming home after work seems like more continued work for me with my new alpha attitude which does not come natural to me (yet). It seems impossible to catch my breath, This is how most guys – having done the work and gamed (unknowingly) and gotten the girl – lose everything because they want to “relax”… and the want is real no doubt. It CAN be exhausting dealing with fitness testing and making that emotional roller coaster go up and down (and EhIntellect is giving you a master class in his FR’s… Read more »

Colbert
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@ RFO, Yep. That about sums up hypergamy in a nutshell, which is what Rollo and others here go on and on about WRT maintaining attraction. The hamster never stops. She is ALWAYS looking for that BBD. She can’t help it. It’s just her nature. So what’s a guy to do? Always be on point. Always be improving and on the front line of being the man other women will desire. Let her see that you are always on the lookout as well, and that you require sex on demand or your eyes will wonder. She wants this and she… Read more »

Colbert
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@ Sentient (Mr. Mystery),

1) Fleetwood Mac sux
2) We are old
3) good lyrics though!

Sentient
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Colbert

In today’s environment it’s a war most men will lose regarding kids, alimony, child support and so on. The truth is once you marry and especially have kids with her it becomes too tempting for her to just parachute out at some later point for cash and prizes.

WTF? If you believe the stats (questionable as identified by SES etc) of 50% of marriages failing… why do you discount 50% succeeding?

Most will lose? Come on… The FI is difficult enough, it needs no help from you…

Blaximus
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Lol. Such under appreciation for good music and good lyrical content.

Colbert I hereby sentence you to a listening of Van Halen’s ” ain’t talkin bout love “.

Hey hey hey…..

Colbert
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@ Sentient,

A coin toss for 18 years of child support, then there’s the alimony and half your shit. Not to mention the possibility of her brainwashing your kids to hate you! Those aren’t good odds. Your right, the FI needs no help from me. It’s doing just fine on it’s own. Your just mad that I bashed Fleetwood Mac.

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@ Blaximus,

Van Halen……much better. Thank you for coming to my rescue on that!

rotepilleblog
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my german blog might be helpful to u

Colbert
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@ Blaximus,

This one’s on me bro.

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEGQqcqq3A&w=560&h=315%5D

Sentient
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Your just mad that I bashed Fleetwood Mac.

Nah… just don’t want any of these MGT”OW” guys to find out they didn’t Go Their Own Way… they went the FI way out of fear… or laziness or not doing the work…

So there.. and here…

https://youtu.be/6ul-cZyuYq4

You can go your own way
Go your own way
You can call it another lonely day
You can go your own way
Go your own way

XD
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@Colbert. This will shock the guys “fighting the LTR fight” , but my plan for kids is to let nature as it is today take its course; bang a decent girl , head over to the child support office and sign what I must to wash my hands of the matter. I realize this voids any influence on how my kids would be raised, but let’s be realistic; even live in dads are just as powerless. What’s the difference between me being a powerless beta living with what’s legally HER family , and me being on the other side of… Read more »

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@ Colbert Just remember, all of the things you mentioned are not absolutely guaranteed to happen. Now, if a man is totally clueless, he might find his ass in a marital sling for sure. But who’s fault is that ultimately? My folks been married for 56 years. My grandparents were married for 70. I’m embarking on year 19. Most married men don’t pay alimony. Most father’s kids aren’t brainwashed to hate them. Most of the worst case scenario stuff doesn’t materialize. I too believe that most guys should steer clear of marriage, but not because of the big, bad wimminz.… Read more »

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@ Blaximus,

Forgot about your request! (I’ve always liked the Pretty Woman cover)

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyvT8nFMLY&w=560&h=315%5D

EhIntellect
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“This requires more work and vigilance on the man’s part with less room for mistakes.” The more we try to actively repair our relationships (work) the more opportunities for failure. We create a negative social proof of ourselves. Guys, being analytical, talk too much when looking for romance answers, they might communicate openly with their lady. Never vouchsafe your romantic ideas in words, intentions to your woman. Less is more. Reminds me of: Law of Power #4 Always Say Less than Necessary. Let her move from covert to overt as she fills in the blanks with dread, frustration and ultimately… Read more »

Sentient
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well I’m more partial to the ethos of Jamie’s Crying

https://youtu.be/2MVplfdNC6E

myself… but really if I had to choose…

Bring on The Reverend Billy G… these guys really knew what was up back then…

https://youtu.be/bBBrqBmeILc

Fuck the FI

Blaximus
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Maybe I’d better get off of the eastern seaboard so I can locate all of these women that are so immune to RP masculinity. I’ve yet to see them.

Paul Williamson
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You may have already see this…

Sentient
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Blax…

They ain’t in LA, SFO, Seattle, Vegas, Phoenix, Chitown or NOLA either…

Colbert
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@ Blaximus,

“I too believe that most guys should steer clear of marriage, but not because of the big, bad wimminz. They’re just girls.”

It’s not them…….

I agree.

@ Sentient,

Nah… just don’t want any of these MGT”OW” guys to find out they didn’t Go Their Own Way… they went the FI way out of fear… or laziness or not doing the work…

You’re right. What was I thinking. Those MGTOW are just scared lazy, lazy bums. I’m not going to chase your hamster Sentient. You win!

Juanpen
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Can someone help me? I am that woman, i did that to my wife with the hopss of her leaving, but she wont. I got caught and then told her i want a divorce . She wants to work it out i said ok, but then cheated again ad she found out. the guilt i now have i cant stand. I want to be single and she wont leave me, so im probably just gonna cheat again. Ultimately im not happy being married. She is not making divorce easy also we have no kids and nothing holding us together except… Read more »

EhIntellect
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@ XD

“As well intentioned as some guys here are , I don’t see the “alpha relationship game” working with the next generation of women. ”

Wars are not won when the battle is over, they are won when one side refuses to fight on.

XD, we become short-sighted in the quotidian difficulties. I don’t pretend to understand your frustration but respectfully ask you to reconsider ceding the whole game to those who’d like just to yolk you for their purpose.

Keep reading, glad you’re here. Hope, truth and friendship exists.

Colbert
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@ XD,

“As well intentioned as some guys here are , I don’t see the “alpha relationship game” working with the next generation of women. Between Tinder, Facebook (aka the Chad Connection System) , and face to face social interactions you’d have to be loaded ,attractive and socially powerful like Brad Pitt to keep a woman around.”

We better be careful XD not to start another food fight around here – lol. Everybody knows where everybody stands. Each man will just have to do his own cost/benefit risk/reward assessment.

kobayashii1681
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Off topic, but looks likethe AFC/BP situation is starting to boil over in S.Korea:
http://qz.com/801067/an-epic-battle-between-feminism-and-deep-seated-misogyny-is-under-way-in-south-korea/

Colbert
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@ Sentient,

ZZ Top. Much better. Glad to see you’ve had your morning coffee. I always liked this one:

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vppbdf-qtGU&w=560&h=315%5D

EhIntellect
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Sentient
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Colbert

You’re right. What was I thinking. Those MGTOW are just scared lazy, lazy bums. I’m not going to chase your hamster Sentient. You win!

Now now… no need for all that… I refer you to my last post on this on the Something Else thread…

“The key though is what is your motivation for doing anything? If it is fear… if it is defeat you are couching as victory… well that is the problem.

If it is genuine Platinum Rule? well OK then… enjoy”

so?

Jt86
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So this guy can only lose? I think a lot of men act Alfa when they pick the girl up. In the first few months they dominate her mentally and physically. They’re full of testosterone. And then later, they are flooded with oxytocine and all the hunter-energy goes away. All the eggs are in one basket now. His investment in the women grows every day. He becomes a Beta. And he is not the same man she fell in love with anymore. Time to dump him for greener pastures (the single guy in her wings flirting away with her for… Read more »

IAS
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I’m convinced a lot of married women are basically “Please, divorce me”. And even then, most divorces are started by women…

Blaximus
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@ Sentient Well, these chicks must be somewhere, as guys keep alluding to them. This past weekend I had a house stuffed with 20something females, and I just didn’t see the masculine immunity at play. What I did see was quite a bit of longing. If these girls were strong and in control, they never got the memo and missed the meetings. Re: VH, pretty woman is def tops,but my personal fave is Sinner’s Swing. Everything by ZZ is always in my play lists. And before she bloated up and went semi blind, lol, I dug Stevie Nick’s voice. Full… Read more »

Sentient
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XD

You’re just straight KJ’ing…. I get it. But to what purpose?

Your “plan” is to… knock up a girl, SIGN UP for child support and then leave?

WTF? Why even bother, get cut… go in peace. Why have a kid you have no intention of being invested in, beyond most of your wages?

Blaximus
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…. the scorpions and dokken took around 2.5% of my hearing.

GnR and Def Leppard took another 2.5.

It was worth it.

Colbert
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@ Sentient,

“The key though is what is your motivation for doing anything? If it is fear… if it is defeat you are couching as victory… well that is the problem.

If it is genuine Platinum Rule? well OK then… enjoy”

Those are good points worth considering. Hate losing though, so accept the challenge. Platinum Rule/DPA is a good compass to navigate those waters.

kobayashii1681
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“She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there)”
😒…😣😣😣..😧

scribblerg
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My two cents… Likely truth of the GF’s behavior – With the BF gone 2 weeks a month, and her regularly “painting the town red” on prime time weekend nights and her in her prime SMV years there is no way I accept this was her first transgression. What I think happened is much more like this. She has been having sex casually but keeping it on the down low. I bet something happened saturday night that blew her cover, or maybe a friend of his or her’s had enough of how badly she was treating the BF and threatened… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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EhIntellect I used to just insouciantly shrug at her frustrations, devil may care, prompting her to strike out. Her anger shifted to violence. In a berserk anger she has even punched me in the face while I was driving the car. Unbridled emotion is chick crack. They’ll blow themselves up for another high. Well, to each their own. For me, that’d be “crossing the line outbound – no return ticket possible”. Pretty much have always been that way, perhaps that’s why I’ve never had to deal with that particular problem. Bonus: There was a couple in the area who used… Read more »

Softek
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@ Blax The be-all end-all for this debate will be actual Field Reports from guys who are ACTIVELY MAINTAINING an LTR with a >25 y.o. If you’re an OMG, or a YSG who doesn’t want a >25 y/o to be monogamously committed to him in a RP-based relationship, and isn’t actively IN THE MIDDLE OF DOING THIS, talking about this is pointless. My take is: Field Reports or go home. I have a friend in his early 20’s who is trying to get into a monogamous relationship with an 18 year old freshman party girl whose favorite hobbies, by her… Read more »

MileHighMusicCity
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@Sentient
50% not divorced does not mean all those still married are successful. Of that 50% a large portion are sex less, a portion are leading to sex less phase , some are on the brink of divorce. If I was to guess it would be about 10 to 15 % that are healthy marriages and this would probably correlate to the percentage of men who are alpha or able to emulate those characteristics.

Sentient
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OK from the vault… Had a situation like the OP go down… when I was in a strong alpha phase and just blasting through girls… After my long distance GF (of a few months) cheated on me at 19, a switch flipped and that was all it took… So I was having my way with girls… One seriously hot little minx in one of my history classes… we would stare at each other every class, but neither of us said anything. This went on for a month or so. One night i was with a buddy visiting me and we… Read more »

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