Please, Breakup with Me!

Separation

The following is an excerpt from the Red Pill Reddit forum I’ve been following recently. I had an emailer ask me to opine about this situation and, for as much as I’d like to brag about having a previous essay for any occasion, I realized I hadn’t really covered this situation. Well, not in any great depth anyway,…

Bit of background: my girlfriend and I are both working people with solid jobs. Mine involves working partly in a lab a fair distance away from where we live, and I am gone for about 2 weeks a month. We have been together 5 years, and things have always been awesome between us. No major fights to speak of.

The incident happened last Saturday night. I was due to return the following Monday, and my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

Saturday was a typically busy day for me, and I was really tired and went to sleep early that night, as I had to get up early to get back to work. Get back to work Sunday, not checking my phone as I was running late, and noticed lots of messages and voicemails waiting for me when I got to the lab. All from my GF: in all the voicemails, she was in tears, and told me that she’d been out dancing in a club and that she’d been fairly tipsy, but not really drunk.

Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back. I don’t know how long, or any details, but she said she realized what she’d done and returned home as soon as possible, where she started calling and texting me.

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her – I guess I have to give her time, but honestly, I’m barely holding on looking at her in her state. I bear no ill will towards her, I just think she made a mistake in the heat of the moment. I’m completely lost. I don’t know how I can convince her that I can move past this, and that I still love her. Even I have been near tears at times these past few days. I need a place to vent, I don’t have many people I can talk to, and I need to write down my thoughts.

TL;DR: GF made out with someone in a bar while I was out of town and is an absolute wreck right now, even though I think I can move past it and work at getting everything back on track. I’m lost and don’t know how to convince her. I don’t know what she is thinking and I’m barely holding on.

Now, a bit later he gives this thread a status update.

UPDATE: I left her a note yesterday night in the kitchen, saying some things, we can work past this, etc. etc. She left a note at the same place I had. There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

The TRP subredd commenters have pretty much covered the majority of what I would point out. We’re dealing with an abject Beta here who, like most Blue Pill conditioned men buys into the touchy-feely ‘open communications will solve everything’ fallacy. He also feels it’s incumbent upon him to follow the ‘be the bigger man’ meme and forgive her indiscretions (at least the ones she felt guilty enough to relate to him in a text). And really, what’s to forgive anyway? It was only a kiss, right?

For a bit of context, they’re both 26, and are living together. We don’t really know much about how long they’ve been together, but if they’re roommates (always a bad idea) I’m going to guess it’s been at least a couple of years.

What this guy is experiencing is actually a very common rationalization strategy women will use when they are saddled with a man their subconscious recognizes as Beta. In The Medium is the Message I point out that there’s really no such thing as ‘mixed messages’ and that women’s behaviors will generally inform a guy as to what a woman’s real intent is. This is a basic behavioral psychology principle; behavior is the only true measure of motivation and intent. Thus, all the verbalizing of intent, verbal rationalization of purpose and ‘open communication’ simply becomes a part of the behavior which Red Pill behaviorists then parse as true intent.

Yes, this can get tedious in the beginning, and yes, it seems like a huge waste of time trying to second guess a woman’s intent, but understanding what a woman’s ‘medium’ is informing you about is a necessary step to internalizing Red Pill awareness. Once you’ve had experience in this parsing a woman’s behaviors with the behavior that is her rationalizations, it’s from this point that a Red Pill aware man can begin to predict behaviors and become more effective ‘readers’ of what a woman’s actions is somewhat reliably telling them.

In this guy’s case his girlfriend’s messaging is pretty clear to any marginally Red Pill aware man. Her behavior is born from a desire to escape the domesticity of their live-in arrangement and while she’s ‘out with the girls’ she seizes an opportunity to engage in an extra-pairing affair. Naturally, what we ‘know’ from what’s related is that she got tipsy and just kissed a guy. As you might expect, the commenters on the TRP sub jump to what predictably happened and the speculation is a lot more than just kissing.

Evo-Bio 101

However, all speculation aside, we have to make a few basic connections here. My first expectation is that she was likely in the proliferative (pre-ovulatory) phase of her menstrual cycle. I can’t be certain, but I’m sure if the guy were to be objective, he’d see the signs. Second, her behavior belies intent, and thus she seeks an extra-pair encounter and puts herself into an environment that will likely facilitate it. The kissing (assuming that’s all it was) is still a behavior that indicates she’s open to a short term breeding opportunity (Alpha Fucks) and is looking, even if just temporarily, to escape her domestic situation with her Beta live-in boyfriend.

That’s basic evo-psych/evo-bio Red Pill awareness of women’s nature. What gets interesting is when she feels compelled to relate her “infidelity” to her Beta boyfriend. The first presumption we make is that she’s felt some pangs of guilt for having betrayed his trust, but as we’ll see this is in error. We make this presumption because, like this guy does, we want to give a woman the benefit of the doubt when it comes to guilt because men and women popularly believe that women have a supernatural gift for empathy. It simply ‘sounds right’ to believe that a woman had an error in judgement whilst a little tipsy, but again we need to see this situation objectively from an evo-psych/behaviorist perspective.

When I break down this Beta guy’s rationalization process you’ll begin to see how this presumption of empathy and his Blue Pill conditioned mindset actually works against this girl, but for now we have to get a grasp of her feminine subconscious and how it reflexively interacts with the sexual imperative of Hypergamy. Most women’s confessions of extra-pair infidelity isn’t rooted in guilt. That’s not to say women don’t feel guilt or regret, it’s just to say that the functional purpose of the confession doesn’t subconsciously originate in feelings of guilt.

When women ‘cheat’, even when it’s non-sexually, their subconscious is testing the man it suspects is Beta which she’s paired with for confirmation of him being Beta. This is potentially risky, of course, but such is the prime directive of Hypergamy that if it is subconsciously suspected that a paired-with man is less that Hypergamously optimal the long term benefits of confirmation outweigh any risks. Thus, a confession of infidelity from a woman should universally be interpreted as a Hypergamous shit test from men.

If nothing else, her confession of infidelity should be interpreted as a lack of genuine desire for a man – such a lack that it’s necessitated her behavior of engaging in genuine desire with another man. What rationalizations and verbal communications that follow from this point should be consider part of that woman’s behavioral set, and in terms of the Medium being the message, should be assessed as her medium.

So what do we see in this case?

I’ve been back for 2 days now, and I’ve only had 1 discussion with her. She was pretty much at my feet when I got back, asking for forgiveness, and honestly, I was nowhere near thinking of breaking up with her. We didn’t talk much that night, just laid in bed, me holding her, thinking we could work this out. No. She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.

he is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did. I don’t know what to do, I can’t reach her…

On the surface we have the reports of this guy stating that she’s wracked with remorse and asking forgiveness. Sounds reasonable enough, right? No talking, cuddling, comfort and consolation, but wont look him in the eye, leaves early, comes back late. The guy presumes she’s broken inside and can’t forgive herself, but her behaviors imply that she’s disappointed in his reaction to just the marginal amount of information she’d related about her “infidelity”.

In his update we get this part, emphasis mine:

There were wet patches on that paper, and she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back. She has left for work now – (true, I called up someone I know there) – and she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

In the post Gut Check I mention how men’s subconscious awareness subtly informs their conscious awareness by picking up on shifts in behavior, attitude and environment. Through our socialization, acculturation and Blue Pill conditioning, men are taught to suppress this natural, instinctual messaging that our gut is telling us. We do so because we fear being accused of male insecurity, jealousy and not subscribing wholesale to the equalist idea that men and women are co-equal rational agents who’ve evolved past anything like our baser natures.

Yet here, with the benefit of Red Pill awareness, we can see a perfect example of a guy suppressing what his peripheral awareness is basically screaming at him. This woman has essentially verified his Beta status by his default willingness to forgive her Alpha Fucks indiscretions with few (if any) questions asked. That test failed, she now hopes he will actually get angry enough to break up with her. Again, test failed, as all of his efforts are directed towards his unconditional love and forgiveness.

Please, Break Up with Me!

This woman is vocally telling him “please, break up with me”, but even this is ignored and rationalized away in his Blue Pill conditioned mindset that tells him all they need is open communication to solve her Hypergamous equation. She literally tells him, “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you.” This is part of her medium, this is her subconscious attempting to tell his subconscious how and why she’s done what she has, but his Blue Pill conditioning has suppressed any hope of that message being translated to him. Bear in mind here, this isn’t necessarily a case of a woman being intentionally malicious. Often this process is one in which she is only playing out as a semi-aware actor of her Hypergamous subroutine.

I’ve had guys relate many similar story in the same vein as this one. In all of them there is a subconscious hope that a paired man which a woman’s Hypergamous instinct has designated as Beta will just get it and understand that she wants him to break up with her. This may be overt, but more often it’s subtle. She’ll leave clues, breadcrumbs, for him to follow that indicate her infidelity in the hopes that he’ll become angry and break up with her. Maybe its an open diary, or an open social media account, or maybe just small convenient absences that are out of the ordinary, but the trail is one her subconscious hopes her man will discover and react to.

There are many reasons for this. The principle one being she desires an easily acknowledged reason for her exit from that pairing. Even if she’s been unfaithful women maintain large social support networks that forgive them of their sins – and this primarily because her girlfriends are living out the same Hypergamous subroutines themselves. It becomes rationalized away, chalked up to her “journey of self-discovery”, not something she was proud of, but a necessary part of her life in becoming “who she really is.”

 Blue Pill men get a sort of double jeopardy in this situation. Their conditioning predisposes them to believing that a woman’s communication is to always be taken as honest and at face value. This is really the source of a lot of Blue Pill mens’ self-inflicted wounds. They believe the notion that women and men are co-equal, rational agents whose evolved consciousness places them above natural instincts. Thus, they never make the Medium is the Message connection. Instead they consciously repress what those instincts, their own and women, are telling them.

When this instinctual suppression is combined with Blue Pill deferral to women and their false assumption that communication is the key to solving all intersexual problems, then you get into this situation. One where that woman desperately wants a guy to get so pissed off that her drops the hammer and leaves her, like she’d expect any Alpha lover to do. However, his Beta disposition makes this hope for anger an impossibility and the very Blue Pill conditioning that made him so acceptable as a provider and a comfort makes her exiting the relationship impossible without her feeling some actual guilt for having to take the initiative to leave him.

And this is where real feminine guilt becomes unavoidable. She’s the one who has to kill the puppy because his Blue Pill conditioning wont allow for him to become angry enough to do it himself. This is where her real guilt and real resentment of him come into play for her. He’s too accommodating and to ready to rationalize away his forgiveness for her to avoid the bad feelings she’s hoped to engender in him.

818 comments

  1. This is the point that, had he any balls AND a desire to keep her, he’d drag her into the bedroom and treat her like a two dollar ho without saying a word to her about anger or forgiveness. Make her feel owned. Make sure she knows that what she wants doesn’t matter. When done, tell her what she’s to make for dinner. If he’d used her properly, she’d love him for it, and the minor transgression would be impossible for her to repeat.

  2. similar event happened to me too about 8 years ago. It took 3 nights out of her. “accidently” meeting former boyfriends at friends’ parties for me to get angry enough to give her what she wanted. She too was on her knees begging forgiveness (the 2nd time) saying i didnt deserve to be treated that way. So the third time i realized, “oh… she lied.”

  3. Another story of a man losing it all because he did it “right.” How many steps is he away from begging her not to leave? She seems conflicted–she wants to be virtuous, but she’s not. She wants to be loyal at all costs, but her subconscious drives won’t allow her to remain loyal to a beta. I see this a lot in Christian circles.

  4. I dunno, I’m kind of hoping he makes her “kill the puppy.” Why give a rodent an easy out?

  5. Rollo,

    Is there a link to an archive of your older posts (besides Year One, Year Two etc.) ? Every now and then you hyperlink a sentence to one of your previous posts, which I can only find by scrolling down to infinity. Is there any way to read your earlier posts besides this one?

  6. I just dumped my problematic plate for this very reason. She had been acting up, left a party without saying bye to me and didn’t meet up with me after as we always had.

    Unlike the dude in the original post, I soft-nexted, went invisible. Then I noticed the same thing as original poster: she had gone to a club and a photo appeared of her and another guy whom I know.

    I ended it. Told her flat out I wasn’t interested anymore and not to contact me… In other situations where a plate has acted out…I just disappear. Either works…but girls hate hate hate confrontation even though they secretly want it to test whether you have the balls to stand up to their shit.

    Of course in my recent case…she immediately contacted me…tried reframing it that I was dumping her for a younger girl…etc etc.

    Pretty much as you describe in your editorial. I’m the monster for being jealous, intolerant, blah blah blah. Girls are masters at this. Blue Pill guys tend to fall for it because girls’ emotional arguments sound “logical”.

    The ONLY solution in this case would be to say “I need to think about this, don’t contact me for a while…” and then disappear. The vagueness would have her panicking and he would be in the driver’s seat.

    But her saying basically “I don’t deserve you…” is a cop out victimization strategy aimed at having her cake and eating it too.

    Sure she’s sorry….Chad whom she made out with at the bar is a douche…and Original Poster is a stand up hard-working guy…but….BUT…

    Unfortunately, it would never get better for the guy in this scenario… 6 months from now it would be the same thing except she would have banged the guy.

    The other important part of this story that is missing is the guy should have at least 2 other plates so when his main one drops out, acts out, cheats or whatever, he isn’t left with his dick in his hand.

    “you don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you” is the ultimate shit test….But I recall in my own past I’ve had similar situations. In my Blue Pill thinking I took this as a “challenge” to step up and demonstrate that I was accommodating to “mistakes”.

    Now? No way…

    But the fact this guy even hesitated is again evidence of the Blue Pill conditioning.

    I can understand how he might be confused. He’s a people pleaser. He wants to be Johnny on the Spot—the go to Mr. Fixit guy…we’ll get through this.

    She doesn’t want to but she can’t say that because in her mind it would make HER the bad person, so she tries some clever reverse psychology….bait him into breaking up with her, then guilting him into being too “jealous” of what was clearly a lapse in drunken judgement.

    That my friends is what you’re up against.

  7. first mistake was to promise monogamy

    second mistake was to actually follow through on that promise

    third mistake was for providing for her her in such a way that she would get comfortable with the provisioning

    I mean, we’re probably missing some deets. He’s probably let himself slide a little bit. And shit, they live together which means the mystery is gone.

    I don’t really think this boils down to straight up AHA ALPHA FUCKS BETA BUCKS

    liiiiiike…

    chicks GET BORED.

    monogamy is BORING.

    Even Chad Thundercock becomes Chad Loafalot under these conditions.

    There is no option but the nuclear option: move out, break up, blah blah blah.

    what a pain in the ass.

    liiiike, even a legit MMA fighter (didn’t even realize until after all the little exchanges were over when a bro was like ‘ya bro that was MMA fighter man’ ‘what?’ ‘yeah dude I’m surprised he didn’t like flip out and kill you or something, you were really rattling him’) was mate guarding his lady hardcore and swoop amogging the fuck out of me this weekend — super strong PDA that had her actually pushing him back and sort of embarassed (lol hilarious shit btw) and he was like WITHIN THE SAME VICINITY.

    CHICKS GET BORED.

    it takes longer but it happens.

    .

  8. I’m left, once again, wondering what my dating life would have been like if I’d read something like this thirty years ago. In some ways the situation for men is worse today – when I was young it was still considered possible for a woman to be something other than blameless when she hurt someone though her own selfishness.

    On the other hand, there are resources (like this one) I never had. It took me far too many years to realize women are both less complicated and less admirable than society at large would have you believe.

    When I was twenty six I may have done exactly what this guy is doing. These days I would move on without ceremony. And I’d quit my job – anything that has you travelling two weeks a month is going to make a monogamous relationship (assuming that’s what you want) nearly impossible to sustain.

  9. “monogamy is BORING . . . CHICKS GET BORED.”

    Yes. AF/BB covers why they get bored.

    Whether knowing why matters will depend on the context. Broke down to simple terms, running game in a pickup context only requires an empirical call/response understanding, but LTR requires actually understanding what a woman is actually saying.

  10. Reminds me a time when I made up bullshit reasons for a girl to dump me. I once made a girl think I was a crazy super emotional, loose cannon who needs anger management so that the girl wouldn’t want anything to do with me. All I did was get angry at the smallest thing. It was something that I actually thought pissed me off, but then when I thought about it I knew I was wrong. But then I exaggerated that point that I had against her and sent her that text message. To this day the girl us afraid of me. She also took it at face value.

  11. Good one, Rollo. Such a classic scenario. I’ve seen this happen a number of times to my friends, but it only happened once to me in my later twenties. After a girlfriend of a year-and-a-half confessed to ‘kissing someone else,’ I remember being perfectly calm and asking “why’d you do that?” I vaguely recall her giving some overly long hamster response but I can’t remember what it was. I told her I’d need a couple of weeks of non-contact to mull it over and completely ghosted on her.

    Within the month, I started fucking one of her younger, hotter coworkers—not out of spite, but because this other woman had been flirting with me for awhile. I was fairly discreet about the whole thing (small community), but apparently she cruised by my house one day in her car and saw the younger woman and I making out on my front porch (I only know this because the former GF left a blisteringly vitriolic message on my answering machine about it). I’m told by mutual friends that this ex-girlfriend still curses my name to this day after 20-something years despite her ‘wonderfully happy’ marriage and three children. lol

  12. @The Diplomat:

    Alpha Widow achievement unlocked!

    @Hue Jass:

    The name Hubert Jass falls into the same category as Ima Hogg, and actual Germanic name.

  13. Yeah after some verbal warnings I got rid of this chick the next time she did something I didn’t like. I really caught her off guard, swiftly broke up with her and she had all sorts of BS excuses for her actions so I cut her off. Nothing as serious as above but she pushed things too far with me.

    I’m far from the most alpha guy around but I was the 1st to ever break up with her (22yo). She was obviously used to playing with complete betas. In hindsight without emotions clouding my judgement I don’t think she thought I had it in me and who knows what she was up to behind my back.

  14. No it doesn’t

    Even captain alpha gets boring, eventueven, sorry.

    Afbb does better at explaining initial attraction.

  15. @ Scray

    Seriously, give me a breakdown of why chicks get bored. I’m curious to know this.

    …. and maybe it will help other guys also.

  16. Don’t know that Rollo’s original post is going to generate much controversy or comment here. Pretty obvious what’s going on … from us on the outside. #1 She’s bored. #2 It was a shit test … please break up with me #3 His behavior is pretty typical for a beta, too much time away/at work will lead to this sort of thing. #4 He’s career driven … if he was a Alpha Animal who “taught her a lesson” by fucking her into submission that would likely convince her to stay and give up the shitty behavior (till it happened the next time) … but that behavior would probably end up getting him fired or in jail … working for a Lab in corporate/gov good ole AmeriKa. Those two skills are pretty much mutually exclusive … Alpha Dogs can get women but suck at life. Betas can excel at life … education, jobs, careers, money … but suck with women. Its why AF/BB exists … so women can suck the best of both out of men … its called maximizing hypergamy and unfortunately our society allows/encourages that to happen … to the detriment of men.

  17. Women don’t feel guilty. Ever. The hamster ensures it. She’s isnt upset because she kissed a dude; is broken about being paired up with a beta.

    All else is camouflage

    Second guessing a woman’s intent is pretty easy; she is either trying to land/ maintain and alpha or she is using a beta for all the resources she can extract. That is the full extent of their biological programming.

  18. I was fairly discreet about the whole thing (small community), but apparently she cruised by my house one day in her car and saw the younger woman and I making out on my front porch…

    You and I have a different definition of the word “discrete”.

  19. Hey Rollo,
    Great post. I’ve seen this implication of beta divorce several times and so I feel you definitely captured all moving parts in your post. I wanted to ask you about a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming”.

    Let me give an applied example. So I have this really close friend. He’s a fairly alpha type guy: powerlifting champ in high school, working at the government R&D labs as a programmer, decent looks, charming in social situations, kind of a loudmouth but otherwise he’s an all around good dude. He recently knocked up this girl (HB 6), moved into her condo, and proposed to her.

    So the baby was recently born. Out of nowhere she kicks him out, breaks off the engagement, and won’t allow him to see his son. She’s essentially emotionally blackmailing the guy and her justification is religion. Now from what I know about this girl is that she’s not religious and simply lying.

    I’ve seen this type of thing happen several times both in my own life as well with my other friends. Essentially a woman targets her alpha lover’s weak points (be it money, children, or reputation ) and slowly yet deliberately attempts to destroys the man’s psyche. It’s a lot like a comfort test disguised as a shit test.

    I have a lot of background in the psychology of abuse, and it strikes me that this approach is very similar to the cycle of abuse, where the intent is to capture a man’s commitment to her and to the family. Thus I term this as “Alpha taming”. I also normally see this happening with very, very insecure women.

    Do you have any insight on how to deal with this phenomenon?

  20. @grayblackblue: ” . . . a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming.””

    It actually gets quite a bit of coverage in the manosphere, and here at TRM, but there is a bit of phase mismatch in terminology. Your search term for today is “betafication.”

  21. Here’s what **actually** happened.

    She did something with the guy. Maybe she banged him, maybe she only made out with him behind the club.

    The specific act in question isn’t relevant. What counts is that she was seen by an acquaintance who knew her and her live in beta, and she was on the bubble to explain herself or potentially lose the provider $$.

    Out comes the story about “feeling guilty” and she “only” kissed him. She has to cop to the “kissed” part in case the grapevine tipped off Betabux before she got him on the line. She can explain kissed as a moment of drunken stupidity.

    What happens next – with the whole “breakup seeking behavior” – is a massive provider shit test. She just “cheated”( I don’t believe in that word , as monogamy to me is a foreign religion) and wants to triple check Betabux is gonna stick around. Which he will, because he’s a chump in a Wesern society full of them.

    Next step is she’s gonna fuck Mr Chad , skip the pill, and present the result as belonging to Mr “Lab Overtime”.

    If it sounds like I’m a jaded SOB, it’s cause I am. I’ve seen women do stuff in this regard that would make a professional hitman shake his head in moral outrage.

    I’m going to draw some serious heat from the “married /relationship good girl crowd” on this topic, but I’ll say it anyways: there’s no such thing as Good Girls.

    Just good liars and Bad Girls. One of the last plates left my rotation by moving to Northern California -with a good ol boy Republican betabux she conned into leaving his wife for. She has the innocent girl act down pat, and the fact that I was the only dude lately who saw through that BS is why I got into her pants ….and Mr GoodOlBoy still hasn’t.

    Because she’s sold him on the “pure conservative woman” line of BS.

    I stand amazed at the legion of chump failures at life who literally sell all they have and are for potential access to sex.

  22. Yep. Once again, RT, EVERYTHING you stated is on point.

    Hopefully he’ll gulp down the pride along with the red pill, NOW…and then bang one of her ‘friends’ ; )
    It’s a virtual guaranfuckentee at least one will be up for THAT.

    Ahhhh, the behavior of the XX ‘species’ = so predictable.

    Learn and turn (that page)…

    -Halp

  23. @Joe…..yah mine didn’t like the fact I dumped her….to paraphrase her response:

    “If you want to ditch me for someone younger, find a better excuse you pussy!”

    I laughed…

    These girls act out in shitty ways and then when you call them out they really try everything to make you the meany…

  24. @grayblackblue: ” . . . a specific phenomenon I’ve been noticing that doesn’t get a lot of coverage in the mansphere. I term it as “Alpha Taming.””

    It’s a popular fantasy among women. Just about every plot of every romance porn novel ever written, in fact.

    Here’s a summary courtesy of a recently popular series:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_trilogy

    As kfg observed, the common term in the androsphere is “betaization”.

  25. @Greyblackblue

    As Rollo often says: “familiarity, comfort and rapport are anti-seductive elements in a man’s Game.”

    Problem is the guy in the original post (a beta with beta game) gave the girl everything she wanted, and so did your Alpha friend also. In a manner apparently in-congruent with his true mission. He flipped himself into beta. If he was truly alpha, he would have went his way with his purpose as a directive and and not compromised his mission/purpose.

    The guy in the OP fantasized about having his girlfriend at his beck and call for sex. He wanted peace, while she wanted (non-Beta) progress in the relationship.

    Women want to be satisfied, yet be unsatisfied with a man. Drama. Come together, only to be drawn apart, come together again, drawn apart. That is what Scray and YaReally play off of in a proper fashion in PUA game. And it is a foreign concept to most LTR’s with a woman and children (for that. there is soft dread–the implicit sense in her that she doesn’t own the man, that he is not betatized).

    Men in LTR’s either have a child with the woman, which keeps her invested or they fuck her good and have sexual variety, which keeps her invested. It is normal for women with young children to have less investment in sexual variety, but it is still on the man to keep her interest (wanting to have sex with him) up. It is normal for your friends feelings to be one of not keeping up the sexual variety, when she invested in “her safety and the safety of the child”. She pushed him away by default, normal female mechanisms.

    Yes the child changed every single dynamic.

    But even without a child, the OP speaks to the boredom dynamic.

    It’s the drama imperative. She needs up and down, back and forth. It’s the 50 shades of Gray drama. Women want and need a man they are in danger of losing. That is the Christian Grey female narrative, not just simple domination, but fucking her good with the hint of not being available. Christian Grey was just out of reach of Anastasia’s grasp.

    Your friend caved. And he is no longer in that alpha, slightly unavailable category. He went all Dean like in the Blue Valentine Movie. All in to her, all the time.

    She didn’t want the 100% Alpha, who she wanted to sense the guy at the cusp of what they are able to get and hold onto. Nor the complete fucking Beta. (Your buddy was either a blue pill converted/betatized Alpha, or a 100% Alpha who she thought to be unreliable–you didn’t give enough in depth information as to which). She wants a man who is liable to walk if she really fucks up (once again, though not the one in the OP, he was beta) and won’t have too much difficulty replacing them with someone else. (Once again PUA’s in the field know this). This soothes her boredom. It is likely your friend had too much drama as a betatized Alpha rather than the guy in the OP that engendered boredom. A real frustrated in-congruent mess of himself.

    When a man is tamed (betatized) a girl becomes restless. And in the OP, the girl had to take control. And at that point her respect for him was lost.

    And then interestingly, she didn’t want to hurt the guy, so she she made it “her-not-him” at fault.

    He was sweet, she was cunning.

    Grayblackblue’s buddy became betatized and was discarded as a provider because of, or in spite of the betatization, The OP’s guy was beta from the start and bored the shit out of the girl.

    “I’ve seen this type of thing happen several times both in my own life as well with my other friends. Essentially a woman targets her alpha lover’s weak points (be it money, children, or reputation ) and slowly yet deliberately attempts to destroys the man’s psyche. It’s a lot like a comfort test disguised as a shit test.”

    It happens in every relationship if a guy allows himself to become Betatized. It’s normal for her to do this. It is a man’s job not to be normal. Don’t allow Betatization.

    I don’t know how Rollo’s new formatting will handle this, but here goes the repeated posting of the process of betatization that is normal for women with children.

    This is a normal process for females. Guys have to see it before it hits them.

  26. Ok @kfg and @anonymousreader

    I get it. Betafication. Got it and that’s very clear. But the betafication examples I’ve read about sounds really normal. If you want to be in a long term relationship (which many men do) it sounds OK for a woman to try to feel reasonably accommodated so she can have her needs met.

    On that note, Heartiste has a great post about maintaining day-to-day alpha behavior in long term relationships.

    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/relationship-game-the-day-to-day-alpha/

    But what I’m talking about is much more extreme version of betafication. Like it’s normal for a girl to throw a tantrum to get her way. Like with children throwing tantrums, the proper response is to let them tire themselves out and then fulfill their needs at a later time so as not to reward their bad behavior. However it’s insane for women to do such heavy betafication at such critical moments in a relationship like after having a baby.

    The best option for my friend would just be to hold frame and continue his own work and then return to the situation

  27. @grayblackblue I’ve seen similar situations play out two times recently. One with a co-worker, and one with my nephew. In both instances, the guys have a strong provider mentality, good jobs, and are family oriented. Both thoroughly beta. Each woman did everything to cut ties with the fathers, once they confirmed pregnancy. No major problems prior to that. One guy bragged about how often they had sex. Wonder how that looks in retrospect. Both guys pay child support, and get minimal visitation. It was obvious what the goals were early on.
    Pretty clear cut formula. Find a guy with acceptable genetics that has a good job, and a beta disposition. Fuck him until you get pregnant, sever ties, collect child support, and play the part of “strong, independent single mother”, alternating with a “poor, victimized me” mindset. Fucking nauseating.
    The stigma of single motherhood has vanished. It’s not that difficult for a woman to acquire financial means (government, child support), and emotional support (friends, family, chumps), so she doesn’t have to deal with an in house beta.

  28. @ Walawala,

    I liked everyone’s analysis but thought your angle offered the best way to handle it. I like the strategy of just keeping it vague and not giving her any closure on it. She had already fucked Mr. Chad or fully intended to fuck him very soon. She wants to paint Mr. beta as over possessive and paranoid so she can tell her friends what a psycho he was for dumping her over such a small “indiscretion”. She cares most about how she is perceived by others as opposed to caring how she is actually behaving. In this case she appears to want a fast dissolution of the current relationship in order to get with her new boy toy without damaging her image in the eyes of others. Like all women she cares most about how she is perceived by others (especially other females).

    Your strategy of just ghosting her is awesome and she deserves it. No instant gratification or resolution one way or the other along with indefinite hamster time for her – lol. Maybe it’s a little passive aggressive, but by doing this you draw her and her bad behavior out into the open by enticing her to speak more than she should about the whole ordeal to her female competition (female friends). While stuck in limbo she ends up revealing more information then she should to all of her female “friends” out of hamster frustration which damages her coveted perceived image by the other female competition. This triggers her fear of being slut shamed and gossiped about.

    @XD,

    “What happens next – with the whole “breakup seeking behavior” – is a massive provider shit test……..Next step is she’s gonna fuck Mr Chad , skip the pill, and present the result as belonging to Mr “Lab Overtime”.

    Haha -great minds think alike. You think like I think. lol.

  29. @ SJF,

    Thanks for posting all of that as it looks relevant to the topic. Should be an interesting little read (haven’t read it yet).

  30. Similar situation for me many years ago. I was traveling for my job, during my trip she was hosted by her friend and met a guy. When she returned she said she had to talk to me… The good thing was that she had the balls to breakup. I was destroyed and, as a perfect blue pilled guy, I started to blame and chasing her for a little bit before nexting. Now, with red pill awardness, I admire her for being totally clear and to break up without any kind of drama.

    P.S: After 10 moths of relationship, when I was with another girl, he cheated on her. She went back to me asking for “advices” on how to handle the situation. Obviously I defended him for being a male, then she tried to seduce me, she invited me in her house, but I knocked her in the ass.

  31. @Rollo

    The ONLY way a girl would want to be broken up with is that she has already found the next branch to swing and don’t want the responsibility to initiate the swing herself.

    Now maybe this is the case in the story you relate. Maybe the guy was so terrible a beta she NEEDED out but couldn’t get herself to initiate the break up because she doesn’t want the guilt of responsibility. I’ve definitely had that happen to me in the past in the form of an exGF becoming cold and distant and bitchy, desperately pushing me to end it.

    But another time I’ve also had the experience of a GF admitting to spending the night with an ex alpha fling “but just cuddle, nothing else” and ask for forgiveness. As I was red pill aware, I didn’t even bother unraveling the trickle truth, I just broke up on the spot. Now she spent THE NEXT 12 MONTHS desperately trying to get me back. I would hardly say she wanted me to break up with her.

    What I believe happened in this case is that they don’t cheat & confess because they want to break up, they do it simply because they follow their feels on the moment and cheat, and then have feels of guilt afterwards and need to act on it. But girls put themselves in a double bind doing so:

    * if you react beta and don’t break up with her, she’ll lose respect and end up wanting a break up later (what I think happened in the story you relate).

    * if you react alpha and break up with her, she’ll dread that she may have lost an alpha and want to get back with you.

    In any case she fucks up her relationship, but in no case she acted like this to start with as an attempt to get him to break up with her.

  32. @Colbert

    These girls hate HATE HATE being called out as cheaters….because they never want to be seen as the “bad” one…. Mine is now pissed that I “ditched” her. But she cannot accept it was because of her behavior and having an orbiter…so she’s tried to bait me into an argument over claims I have cheated on her—which is funny in itself because she’s a plate.

    The Red Pill has made dumping her much easier and more clear for me. Plate pisses you off, soft next…plate continues to act out and has orbiter…bye.

    Now, one thing that is in debate about dumping a girl so I will give my POV and experience.

    Women are like children so you have to be firm and clear when you call out their behavior. If it continues…soft next. If she doesn’t change or does something unacceptable, hard next.

    The only thing girls hate more than being called out as cheaters…is being given a second chance AFTER cheating….

    This is also a painful learning from my Blue Pill days….if I can just be accepting and tolerant…well, gosh…she’ll love me even more….NOT.

    So I’m not feeling great about having to dump my plate…but seeing her over-reaction is a sign my Red Pill insights are correct.

  33. Hi Rollo,

    I am a newly unplugged guy from Germany scared shitless by the changes my recent awareness has caused in my marriage. As a typical blue pill beta I related all my thoughts openly to my wife in the past. No wonder our sex suffered and was the arranged/negotiated one you talk about and which slowly suffocated her. Our sex life now has changed like night and day. But she seems to be figuring stuff out as well! She intends to go dancing with girl friends to feel the thrill of being admired by other men! She told me yesterday knowing that I am just sitting at work and not talking to other women makes it hard for her to continue working out, losing weight! This after I spent a whole weekend at a sauna myself where there were other women nude and I left in the dark as to how much I flirted around with them. She was scared shitless, I know. But in hindsight she now also loves the thrill, no doubt! She tried to squeeze all the details out of me of course, which she halfways managed after interrogating me by always squeezing in another question somewhere in our conversations. Since she was/is my best and almost only friend I don’t know whom to relate to, I don’t know whom to talk to. She got hooked on the thrill of me flirting around! And quite honestly I am exhusted, since coming home after work seems like more continued work for me with my new alpha attitude which does not come natural to me (yet). It seems impossible to catch my breath, if I am already lagging behind on excitement after it has only been three days since my last adventure. All men I know are diehard-betas. I could not talk about this to ANYONE around here. I am lost out here in the middle of nowhere in Germany. I am inclined to want to go back to “how it was”, but as you pointed out this is not an option. What do I do? Whith whom can I connect with or talk to? I am scared shitless that my wife is now on some mental drug – I caused – that will ultimatily drive her away. I need to stay in control. How do I do that? Do I allow her to go dancing? This part relates a lot to this post. Thanks for all your insight!!

  34. @ Auvergnat,

    “In any case she fucks up her relationship, but in no case she acted like this to start with as an attempt to get him to break up with her.”

    What makes you so sure of this? I wonder about BPD chicks and their hypergamy. With a BPD I think it’s all conscious and calculated/planned and thought out. For normal healthy women that had good parental bonds (particularly with a RP father) it’s unconscious. But what about those women who are in-between those extremes (poor role modeling or no father figure – but did bond with at least one parent or bonded with two BP parents)? I think it’s up for debate with this group which comprise the vast majority of women of today. Maybe it’s a peripheral solipsistic understanding for THESE women. I tend to lean on the view that this large middle group knows what they are doing and that the only difference between them and the cluster B types is that they are emotionally stable compared to the cluster B women who are emotionally unstable. Perhaps that’s being too cynical. I really am not sure.

    @SJF,

    That was a fine read sir. Thanks for posting that.

    @ Rollo,

    I appreciate all of your articles but thought this was one of your better ones’. Thank you for all of them. I just realized that I’ve only read your “best of pieces” from years one, two and three but never bothered to read all of the ones you wrote under all of the categories you list on your side bar. I’m looking forward to reading ALL of them along with YaReally’s archives at some point. So much to read and digest! Great stuff.

    I’m beginning to see now that being in an LTR requires a lot of work and continued personal development to maintain the constant personal attraction (sex) that a man deserves in a relationship but that at some point it just becomes a part of you as you internalize these habits. It’s as if it is an ongoing war being waged to consistently obtain those three things that every man should not waiver on demanding in a relationship: 1) an empty ball sack, 2) a full belly, and 3) a clean house. It’s all about respect which starts with yourself. The OMGs’ as a group are like old battle tested warriors – lol. Thanks for the insights.

  35. @ Walawala,

    “…so she’s tried to bait me into an argument over claims I have cheated on her—which is funny in itself because she’s a plate.”

    YES. That’s my point with the whole cluster H thing – lol. She’s prolly not BPD but just a typical cluster H type. That is an example of simple projection which is a form of psychological abuse. According to SJF’s post it is just standard female evo-psych female wiring. If that is true then mother nature is truly harsh – lol.

    Good job on biting the bullet with the hard next. It sounds like your reasoning is solid on understanding that…”The only thing girls hate more than being called out as cheaters…is being given a second chance AFTER cheating….”

    Cut your losses and move on. I suppose you COULD give her another series of spins, but is the juice going to be worth all the extra drama squeeze?

  36. An unusual case.

    The girl did more than kiss on that first encounter, but did less than fuck with abandon.
    She felt the pull of the gaudy carousel and understood the downside, and her tears were real.

    She was asking to be shrived. Brought back to his side. Given boundaries.
    He had a 48-hour window to put her over his knee and spank her backside red.
    Then to tell her to blow her nose, wash her face and come to bed, all melty and mended.

    Too late now.
    Don’t ask me how I know.

  37. @ SaracenIII

    So basically like you’d scold and punish a child who did some mischief and felt guilty about it…

    I like it

  38. @ Blaximus,

    I just caught some of the exchange b/t you and Kaminsky regarding the MGTOW guys from the end of the previous thread. I made a comment on the differences b/t the “hard and soft” MGTOW types, but this was regarding my own personal opinions on how these types digest the RP and why the hard types might have trouble moving on with their personal development until working through their RP rage. I would just like to add that this rage applies to some PUA types and married types as well. One beef I have with MOST of MGTOW is their hostility toward the PUA crowd and how they characterize them as “fuzzy hat, black fingernail polish pussy beggars that are seeking female validation”. This trope is just stupid on their part and that is a fair criticism. Now there is a little bit of an “us versus the rest of them” narrative within MGTOW, but I see THE SAME bullshit with the OMG, PUA and MRA crowds – lol. This is the beef that I have with all of the different factions within the RP Manosphere. It’s all RP (except perhaps for the MRA crowd).

    Not sure where you are coming from with your attitude toward MGTOW in general. There’s a difference between MGTOW who avoid women because “they just seem to feel better when they’re not around” versus the haters within MGTOW. Stereotyping ALL MGTOW as pot smoking, porn addicted, video game playing dropouts is just as stupid. Some dudes just prefer to remain bachelors – lol. Last I heard, many bachelors still have jobs, like to lift, enjoy hobbies, etc. Not sure where you’re coming from with all of the stereotyping.

  39. @Saracen 3— You’d treat this behavior like it was a naughty child who just knocked over a plant?

    Girls cry when they fuck up….it’s a ploy for sympathy and to avoid any accountability.

    This is the worst advice to give guys still confused about what the Red Pill is all about.

  40. @ Blaximus,

    “Re: ” Losers “, I happen to agree that in life there are indeed winners and losers.

    I define a loser by his attitude.

    I’ve lost at plenty of shit during life, but I’ve never ever accepted and embraced the loss. I went back to the drawing board and learned how to win.

    I do not agree at all with any measure of mgtow, but guys can ultimately do whatever they want to do. But imo, your attitude will define whether you are winning or losing at life. Full stop.

    I personally do not ever cosign the ” it’s too hard ” bullshit mindset at all. Having a movement of men that resign themselves to being losers does not lend credence. It’s only a loser movement.

    So, guys can dull themselves with games or drugs or whatever, but I don’t have to cosign that fuckery because the whine and complain about not being able to cope.

    There is nothing of worth for a man in infantilism.

    If there is one thing that drives me crazy in the manosphere, it’s the lamentation that things are just too hard. Wtf????

    Too hard, I’m pulling out.

    Here’s excuse #3,071 why it’s to difficult.

    Other men shouldn’t cosign this shit ( or, do cosign it because men are eliminating themselves from active competition ) and soothe the hurt feelz.

    Ohhhhhh, it’s all just too haaarrrrdddd.

    Evidently we have raised a bunch of pampered, spoiled, baby minded males.

    Normally, I remain quiet on the subject. Sometimes I pipe up. Today my ” woe is me, life is hard, I’ma go play gears of war ” cup runs over.”

    Now Blax, you know I respect you and I appreciate all that you contribute. You set a good example for ALL men. I don’t want to be accused of putting words in your mouth, so I went ahead and I posted ALL of what you said in one of your comments (all in context). Do you really stand by those words? You even later replied that your were watching MNF at the time – lol. Seriously? There’s just too much in-fighting around here is my point and you’re not the only one that has said such things. It’s like there is only OMG game vs. YSG pLTR game and all support PUA, but these camps must dig in to their respective bunkers and fight the good fight for team whatever. Okay, that’s fine. Then there is MGTOW who are the red headed stepchild I guess in all of this? “Cuz, they got no game; their just single losers!” MGTOW – the axis of evil and the enemy of my enemy is my friend, so the OMGs’ and the YSGs’ must unite against them! Lol. Now, if that is because MGTOW is perceived as being anti PUA, then I can understand THAT. But not all MGTOW are like that 🙂

  41. If not a home run, then many bases were taken.

    I think greginaurora got it right. I would interpret this not quite as a notice to break up but as an ultimatum (probably not fully understood as one by the woman, b/c is the feelz). And as several here have said, the correct response is to be more alpha, not less. You don’t show her that she’s valued by simpering forgiveness, you do it by getting upset and punishing her. Which seems to be what she’s begging for.

  42. Women in relationships ARE children.
    Men need to be attentive bestie, steely-eyed commander, big boofy Teddy bear and Death on Two Legs, changing hats without missing a beat.

    The giveaway here is that she sent a text as soon as it happened,
    Two-timing bitches don’t do that.

  43. @Saracen 3 : “”The giveaway here is that she sent a text as soon as it happened,
    Two-timing bitches don’t do that.””

    please explain. I don’t see a difference between texting right away out of guilt or waiting out of guilt.

  44. @ Rollo,

    I’m curious now about the MRAs’. You said something about one of their spokespersons being a feminist in her 20’s with a live-in beta boyfriend. Shoe On Head came to my mind but that’s not right is it? She’s antifeminism (I thought). Anyway, if they are all about equal egalitarian blah, blah, blah, then I guess they wouldn’t be RP. Just curious who you were referring to.

  45. Rollo,
    Timely article – 8 short vignettes on women who loved dictators and tyrants. These alpha dudes can and do get away with literal murder.
    “She had it easy at first, because she wasn’t one of the wives. They met up two or three nights a week, on and off for thirty-three years. Even after he threw her husband in jail and seized his possessions. Even after his son raped her daughter. She stuck around.”
    https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/eight-women-in-love/
    BK

  46. Speaking of LTR fitness,

    Sunday evening the missus progressively chills to me, avoidant, bitch shields up, won’t smile. She’ll want me to ask, pursue her with small talk, but I don’t. By the time the kids are in bed, I’m typing, listening to music.

    She walks out of the bedroom, glares at me and says at me “I thought we’d have together time, but why do I bother?” This is all one big luteal-phase shit test.

    With a wan smile, I nod. The next day is silent treatment. Kids to school, she blows out the door, no questions, no good-byes.

    We text later to meet up for lunch, she shows up, half tears, half sulky, all self-pity. Says she’s not hungry. She orders tea.

    Half way through lunch I break the ice:

    Me: “I expect you to talk at some point.”

    Her: Silence

    Me: “Feel free to have a bite of this.”

    Her: “I can’t eat. I expected you to talk to me, isn’t it why you invited me?”

    Me: “I invited you to have lunch. I’m hungry. What would you like to talk about?” I keep the tone kind, open, non-defensive. The tears well up and she says “I can’t talk here.”

    I finish, no comment about it, I’m chill.

    @ Home now.

    Me: I push a chair out with my foot and tell her to sit and talk.

    Her: “I don’t think the way we’re living is getting us closer to heaven. The movies we watch (The kids and I watched Highlander the day before), the drinking (she tipsy-drunk fell over Friday night – to the laughs of the kids), the things we do in bed. We need to spend more time with the family. ”

    Me: “Sure, you know me, I don’t care much about the TV anyways. How ’bout we try board games, or such?” She agrees and I tell her we’ve made a lot of progress.

    In reality nothing changes, we do board games already, and I won’t have any more heavy lifting emotionally around the house. This is about satisfying her drama quotient requirement.

    Fast forward 7 P.M. on the couch, after kid’s music concert. I pour myself a tumbler of whiskey, know better to serve her one or ask (she often will shit-test reject it), but she soon follows and pours herself one and sits next to me. I get close, turn my chest to her. After she pulls once on her drink I lean in and start making out with her, pull away and lazer eyes. She holds her drink and says…

    Her: “I shouldn’t tell you this, I can’t tell you this…..I don’t like complaining because i think you’ll stop the sex. I don’t want any of our sex to stop, it’s too good, I don’t want it to stop.”

    I lean in and french kiss her some more, drag her hand to my zipper which she pounces on and starts blowing me. Hot sex on pool table an hour later, ect.

    Sunrise, sunset.

  47. I have been reading stuff here for a few months and have come up with an alternative explanation of female behavior that isn’t so much a different theory as another way of looking at the behavior based on what I see. I call my theory the “looking for the best deal” theory. The way I see it, women are looking for the best deal at all times. (So are men, btw, but that’s another post). So this guy is in a LTR and he thinks everything is fine. But he doesn’t realize that the little hamster in her mind is relentlessly asking “is this the best deal I can get?” She goes out with the girls to test the waters to see if a better guy is interested in her. The answer is “maybe” – the guy she hooked up with seems a better deal. Maybe he’s more physically fit, wealthier, etc… Now she comes back to Mr. Blue Pill and there is a problem – she’s in a relationship with him but wants to see if Mr. Bar is better. She doesn’t so much “shit test” Mr. Blue Pill as tries to blow up the relationship just enough to give her maneuvering room to see Mr. Bar (while keeping Mr. Blue Pill around just in case). So she tells Mr. Blue Pill (part of) what happened – enough to try to get a break but withholds enough so that there’s plausible deniability if she wants to get back together. He doesn’t get angry and wants to keep her. He just signaled to her that “you’re the best deal I can get and I desperately don’t want to lose you.” That confirms her suspicion that she could do better. Now he’s sunk. She will eventually find a way to rationalize her way out of the relationship. It might take 6 months but she’s gone and in her mind it will be his fault. He was too controlling . . . or too clingy . . . or didn’t help with housework . . . or something. But if she thought he was the best she could do, none of that would matter. It’s only when she thinks she can do better that any of this is a problem.

    So what’s Mr. LTR supposed to do? If he actually wants to keep this one (a big IF in my mind), he needs to convince her that she could not possibly do better than him. As noted in numerous posts, one of the stumbling blocks is his oneitis, which essentially signals to her “I think you’re the best I could get, please, please, please don’t leave me.” He needs to adopt Alpha behaviors not because Alpha behaviors are some sort of magical way of stimulating a vagina but because those behaviors signal “I could do better and you’re damn lucky to be with me.” But Alpha behaviors only work if it’s plausibly true that you could do better. So he should work out, dress his best, earn lots of money, be successful, etc… The one thing he should not do is waste his time talking about his or her “feelings.”

  48. I think some translations are in order here.

    “Apparently some guy started dancing around her, (this part is absolutely unclear, I only know what she told me) and after some words exchanged, yada yada, he leaned in to kiss her, and she kissed him back.”

    Translation: “Honey, I went out dancing with the girls and went home with a guy who fucked me good, like I haven’t had since I’ve been with you. What the fuck you gonna do about this?”

    “She is broken inside, and I don’t think she can forgive herself for what she did.”

    Translation: She is really pissed off at you, and she can’t believe you haven’t figured out what REALLY happened yet.

    “She has been an absolute wreck since she woke up 3 days ago, won’t look me in the eye, left home crazy early, returns extremely late, and hasn’t been returning texts or calls.”

    Translation: She is getting angrier and more furious by the day at your cluelessness. She cheated on you and is getting ready to branchswing. But she doesn’t want to be the one to drop the breakup hammer because that would make her feel guilty, like she, oh, I don’t know, did something wrong, something she should not have done but wanted to do so she did it anyway.

    She leaves early because she can’t stand the sight of you. She comes home extremely late because she’s fucking that guy she met earlier in the week. She doesn’t return texts or calls because she’s pushing you away in the hopes that you’ll get the hint and tell her to fuck off.

    “she pretty much wrote she fucked up big time and she was sorry. (She had already said these things last time I saw her.) Also said sorry she had shut me out, she didn’t know what to do, and that she didn’t think she deserved me after the way I treated her the night I got back.”

    Translation: “I found a new guy and I’m not sorry. I was shutting you out because I want you to be the one to break up with me. I’ve been out late fucking the new guy. I know exactly what to do; the question is, do YOU know what to do? I’m not sure you deserve me, or any girl.”

    “she said she is done being an asshole, and would come home to and (I quote:) ” get out of my life once and for all. You don’t deserve the way I’ve treated you this week.”

    Translation: Jeez. I was hoping my doing all this would make you get it. Obviously, it didn’t. Guess I’ll have to do it. When I get home, I’m breaking up with you, gathering my shit, and leaving. I was right — you don’t deserve me, or a girl.”

    “How can I expect you to protect me when you can’t even protect yourself from me? How can I trust you to take care of me when you can’t even protect yourself from a girl?”

  49. It all went wrong with the Lion Taming… here

    my girlfriend and a few of her friends had planned a night out, painting the town red. I knew about it, and this isn’t an uncommon occurrence and I paid no mind to it.

    Shit testing… fail.

  50. Artalpha

    And quite honestly I am exhusted, since coming home after work seems like more continued work for me with my new alpha attitude which does not come natural to me (yet). It seems impossible to catch my breath,

    This is how most guys – having done the work and gamed (unknowingly) and gotten the girl – lose everything because they want to “relax”… and the want is real no doubt. It CAN be exhausting dealing with fitness testing and making that emotional roller coaster go up and down (and EhIntellect is giving you a master class in his FR’s atm)…

    But just like exercise, eventually it will become a part of you and light work… just keep at it. Eventually she will do more of the lifting because SHE is excited by it all too, as you are finding out.

    The other night, listening to some 70’s tunes… such a great era, analog musicianship, tremendous lyrics…

    Christine McVie telling you how it is… circa 1975…

    You can take me to paradise,
    And then again you can be as cold ice.
    I’m over my head,
    Oh but it sure feels nice.

    You can take me anytime you like,
    I’ll be around if you think you might love me baby,
    And hold me tight.

    Your mood is like a circus wheel,
    You’re changing all the time,
    Sometimes I can’t help but feel,
    That I’m wasting all of my time.

    Your mood is like a circus wheel,
    You’re changing all the time,
    Sometimes I can’t help but feel,
    That I’m wasting all of my time.

    THIS is the goal gentlemen… women chase… My wife is usually saying she has no idea what I am thinking, that I am moody, that she feels on pins and needles… etc. This is just the roller coaster going down…

    enjoy. Take it to heart.

  51. @ RFO,

    Yep. That about sums up hypergamy in a nutshell, which is what Rollo and others here go on and on about WRT maintaining attraction. The hamster never stops. She is ALWAYS looking for that BBD. She can’t help it. It’s just her nature. So what’s a guy to do? Always be on point. Always be improving and on the front line of being the man other women will desire. Let her see that you are always on the lookout as well, and that you require sex on demand or your eyes will wonder. She wants this and she needs it – constant dread. I think Sentient calls it feeding the hamster – lol. Keep it well fed. I think this is a great motivator to keep improving as a man which is where I think a lot of the OMG’s are coming from when they come across as “be alpha 24/7 bro”.

    There’s a lot of truth to that. You have to be “that way” in order to win the war (it can never actually be won – lol). This is LTR game. If played right then your woman really will make you a better man (just not in the way you expected). It’s really you making yourself a better man because you simply REFUSE TO LOSE. As Rollo points out though, after a while it just becomes habit and thus internalized and “easy”. In the back of your mind you should always be prepared for the scenario where she finds the BBD. If you did all that you could do and you fought the good fight then you will be okay emotionally (maybe not financially and then there’s the kids to consider but that is a whole other debate – lol). If, however, you know deep down that you did not step up and do all that you were supposed to do then you will feel the pain of your loss of her exponentially.

    It’s a war, but one worth fighting should one be so inclined (I suppose). So, the point is don’t go into battle until you are ready. In today’s environment it’s a war most men will lose regarding kids, alimony, child support and so on. The truth is once you marry and especially have kids with her it becomes too tempting for her to just parachute out at some later point for cash and prizes. It’s a minefield, but again, that is a different debate. It’s an easier prospect if there are no kids and you don’t get married. It’s a constant power struggle regardless. Get married and have children and the power dynamic shifts into her favor. This requires more work and vigilance on the man’s part with less room for mistakes. Yes, it CAN be done. Is it worth the risk? Not for most men today IMO.

  52. Colbert

    In today’s environment it’s a war most men will lose regarding kids, alimony, child support and so on. The truth is once you marry and especially have kids with her it becomes too tempting for her to just parachute out at some later point for cash and prizes.

    WTF? If you believe the stats (questionable as identified by SES etc) of 50% of marriages failing… why do you discount 50% succeeding?

    Most will lose? Come on… The FI is difficult enough, it needs no help from you…

  53. Lol. Such under appreciation for good music and good lyrical content.

    Colbert I hereby sentence you to a listening of Van Halen’s ” ain’t talkin bout love “.

    Hey hey hey…..

  54. @ Sentient,

    A coin toss for 18 years of child support, then there’s the alimony and half your shit. Not to mention the possibility of her brainwashing your kids to hate you! Those aren’t good odds. Your right, the FI needs no help from me. It’s doing just fine on it’s own. Your just mad that I bashed Fleetwood Mac.

  55. Your just mad that I bashed Fleetwood Mac.

    Nah… just don’t want any of these MGT”OW” guys to find out they didn’t Go Their Own Way… they went the FI way out of fear… or laziness or not doing the work…

    So there.. and here…

    You can go your own way
    Go your own way
    You can call it another lonely day
    You can go your own way
    Go your own way

  56. @Colbert.

    This will shock the guys “fighting the LTR fight” , but my plan for kids is to let nature as it is today take its course; bang a decent girl , head over to the child support office and sign what I must to wash my hands of the matter.

    I realize this voids any influence on how my kids would be raised, but let’s be realistic; even live in dads are just as powerless.

    What’s the difference between me being a powerless beta living with what’s legally HER family , and me being on the other side of the country mailing a CS check?

    In the modern social and legal schema the leader of the household is the female, and no amount of “frame” is gonna change the mind of the government or “your” woman’s social circle hive. Once she has the kid it’s legally and socially considered “hers”, and she’ll be the one dictating terms on how fatherhood will be permitted regardless of what the biodad thinks. Frame won’t do squat for you in court.

    Absentee fatherhood is a long way from ideal, but at least I still have control over my life and some nickels in the bank. No man can out-alpha the government, and that’s basically what it takes to preserve traditional fatherhood going forward.

    As well intentioned as some guys here are , I don’t see the “alpha relationship game” working with the next generation of women. Between Tinder, Facebook (aka the Chad Connection System) , and face to face social interactions you’d have to be loaded ,attractive and socially powerful like Brad Pitt to keep a woman around.

    Oh, wait.

  57. @ Colbert

    Just remember, all of the things you mentioned are not absolutely guaranteed to happen. Now, if a man is totally clueless, he might find his ass in a marital sling for sure.

    But who’s fault is that ultimately?

    My folks been married for 56 years. My grandparents were married for 70. I’m embarking on year 19.

    Most married men don’t pay alimony. Most father’s kids aren’t brainwashed to hate them. Most of the worst case scenario stuff doesn’t materialize.

    I too believe that most guys should steer clear of marriage, but not because of the big, bad wimminz. They’re just girls.

    It’s not them…….

  58. “This requires more work and vigilance on the man’s part with less room for mistakes.”

    The more we try to actively repair our relationships (work) the more opportunities for failure. We create a negative social proof of ourselves. Guys, being analytical, talk too much when looking for romance answers, they might communicate openly with their lady. Never vouchsafe your romantic ideas in words, intentions to your woman. Less is more.

    Reminds me of:

    Law of Power #4
    Always Say Less than Necessary.

    Let her move from covert to overt as she fills in the blanks with dread, frustration and ultimately panic. She will enter your frame.

    https://www.tke.org/files/file/The_48_Laws_of_Power.pdf

    Warning: as above, I broached the conversation, but let her spill her emotions. I used to just insouciantly shrug at her frustrations, devil may care, prompting her to strike out. Her anger shifted to violence. In a berserk anger she has even punched me in the face while I was driving the car. Unbridled emotion is chick crack. They’ll blow themselves up for another high.

    Dudes! Deftly lead her destructive emotions to harbor; it might save your life some day.

  59. well I’m more partial to the ethos of Jamie’s Crying

    myself… but really if I had to choose…

    Bring on The Reverend Billy G… these guys really knew what was up back then…

    Fuck the FI

  60. Maybe I’d better get off of the eastern seaboard so I can locate all of these women that are so immune to RP masculinity. I’ve yet to see them.

  61. @ Blaximus,

    “I too believe that most guys should steer clear of marriage, but not because of the big, bad wimminz. They’re just girls.”

    It’s not them…….

    I agree.

    @ Sentient,

    Nah… just don’t want any of these MGT”OW” guys to find out they didn’t Go Their Own Way… they went the FI way out of fear… or laziness or not doing the work…

    You’re right. What was I thinking. Those MGTOW are just scared lazy, lazy bums. I’m not going to chase your hamster Sentient. You win!

  62. Can someone help me? I am that woman, i did that to my wife with the hopss of her leaving, but she wont. I got caught and then told her i want a divorce . She wants to work it out i said ok, but then cheated again ad she found out. the guilt i now have i cant stand. I want to be single and she wont leave me, so im probably just gonna cheat again. Ultimately im not happy being married. She is not making divorce easy also we have no kids and nothing holding us together except for history. So does that make my wife a beta?

  63. @ XD

    “As well intentioned as some guys here are , I don’t see the “alpha relationship game” working with the next generation of women. ”

    Wars are not won when the battle is over, they are won when one side refuses to fight on.

    XD, we become short-sighted in the quotidian difficulties. I don’t pretend to understand your frustration but respectfully ask you to reconsider ceding the whole game to those who’d like just to yolk you for their purpose.

    Keep reading, glad you’re here. Hope, truth and friendship exists.

  64. @ XD,

    “As well intentioned as some guys here are , I don’t see the “alpha relationship game” working with the next generation of women. Between Tinder, Facebook (aka the Chad Connection System) , and face to face social interactions you’d have to be loaded ,attractive and socially powerful like Brad Pitt to keep a woman around.”

    We better be careful XD not to start another food fight around here – lol. Everybody knows where everybody stands. Each man will just have to do his own cost/benefit risk/reward assessment.

  65. @ Sentient,

    ZZ Top. Much better. Glad to see you’ve had your morning coffee. I always liked this one:

  66. Colbert

    You’re right. What was I thinking. Those MGTOW are just scared lazy, lazy bums. I’m not going to chase your hamster Sentient. You win!

    Now now… no need for all that… I refer you to my last post on this on the Something Else thread…

    “The key though is what is your motivation for doing anything? If it is fear… if it is defeat you are couching as victory… well that is the problem.

    If it is genuine Platinum Rule? well OK then… enjoy”

    so?

  67. So this guy can only lose? I think a lot of men act Alfa when they pick the girl up. In the first few months they dominate her mentally and physically. They’re full of testosterone. And then later, they are flooded with oxytocine and all the hunter-energy goes away. All the eggs are in one basket now. His investment in the women grows every day. He becomes a Beta. And he is not the same man she fell in love with anymore. Time to dump him for greener pastures (the single guy in her wings flirting away with her for some time)

  68. I’m convinced a lot of married women are basically “Please, divorce me”. And even then, most divorces are started by women…

  69. @ Sentient

    Well, these chicks must be somewhere, as guys keep alluding to them.

    This past weekend I had a house stuffed with 20something females, and I just didn’t see the masculine immunity at play.

    What I did see was quite a bit of longing.

    If these girls were strong and in control, they never got the memo and missed the meetings.

    Re: VH, pretty woman is def tops,but my personal fave is Sinner’s Swing.

    Everything by ZZ is always in my play lists.

    And before she bloated up and went semi blind, lol, I dug Stevie Nick’s voice.

    Full disclosure though-

    I used to wear a T-shirt in the early 80s that read ” Eddie Who? “. I even wore it to a VH concert.

    Eddie made a comment in Guitar Player magazine poo pooing Hendrix. A decade later he walked it back.

    Hell, my dad was using the ” hammering ” thing back in the late 60s. Lol.

    Still, I’m a fan of both versions of VH.

  70. XD

    You’re just straight KJ’ing…. I get it. But to what purpose?

    Your “plan” is to… knock up a girl, SIGN UP for child support and then leave?

    WTF? Why even bother, get cut… go in peace. Why have a kid you have no intention of being invested in, beyond most of your wages?

  71. …. the scorpions and dokken took around 2.5% of my hearing.

    GnR and Def Leppard took another 2.5.

    It was worth it.

  72. @ Sentient,

    “The key though is what is your motivation for doing anything? If it is fear… if it is defeat you are couching as victory… well that is the problem.

    If it is genuine Platinum Rule? well OK then… enjoy”

    Those are good points worth considering. Hate losing though, so accept the challenge. Platinum Rule/DPA is a good compass to navigate those waters.

  73. My two cents…

    Likely truth of the GF’s behavior – With the BF gone 2 weeks a month, and her regularly “painting the town red” on prime time weekend nights and her in her prime SMV years there is no way I accept this was her first transgression. What I think happened is much more like this. She has been having sex casually but keeping it on the down low. I bet something happened saturday night that blew her cover, or maybe a friend of his or her’s had enough of how badly she was treating the BF and threatened to come clean.

    This brings on the hysteria. having her cover blown. The confusion comes from her being mixed about keeping him. It reveals the classic issue with today’s women. Their adaptive psychology and social conditioning conceals their motivations from themselves. This kind of upset comes from a deeper place than the regret over a drunken make out session. And of course, this guy needs to know that this is the classic way girls admit to being cheaters, they admit “something” and we are just supposed to get it.

    The high level of hysteria can be explained by fear of shame. My guess is this girl likely portrays herself in her family and social circles as a “good girl” and not a slut like her slutty friends. Being exposed would not only mess up her BF situation, it would affect her standing with friends and family. This would bring on hysteria.

    Or maybe her friends all know and cheer her on, and she’s a covert slut keeping it from the BF but on Saturday night, one of the guys she was fucking had a GF show up at the club and confronted her and threatened to tell the BF. I’d wager a large amount of money that there was some kind of discovery or disclosure imminent, hence the hysteria,.

    Women use hysteria to manipulate and dominate those around them. It’s an “escalation” of conflict and makes men shut down.

    Now on to the BF. He’s so fucked in the head, I don’t even know where to start. 5 years with the same girl at 26? Settled down and having a remote relationship half the time due to work? Wtf is this kid thinking? Why doesn’t he have plates in the town he works in two weeks a month? Why is he turning in early on Saturday night? Why isn’t he so concerned with his life that he sees all of this as ridiculous and simply shuts it down?

    Even worse? What she’s really doing is daring him to be a fucking man. To claim ownership over her and to punish her for doing what she did. The fact that he’s forgiving and understanding lowers his value, but being Blue Pill, he doesn’t understand it.

    This guy will be a cuckold within 10 years, jerking off while watching some player fuck his wife stupid.

  74. EhIntellect
    I used to just insouciantly shrug at her frustrations, devil may care, prompting her to strike out. Her anger shifted to violence. In a berserk anger she has even punched me in the face while I was driving the car. Unbridled emotion is chick crack. They’ll blow themselves up for another high.

    Well, to each their own.
    For me, that’d be “crossing the line outbound – no return ticket possible”. Pretty much have always been that way, perhaps that’s why I’ve never had to deal with that particular problem.

    Bonus:
    There was a couple in the area who used to have pretty hot arguments. One night she stabbed him with something sharp. He didn’t die right away. Eventually she went to prison for manslaughter. They never did find the sharp object, she hid it that well.

    To each their own.

  75. @ Blax

    The be-all end-all for this debate will be actual Field Reports from guys who are ACTIVELY MAINTAINING an LTR with a >25 y.o.

    If you’re an OMG, or a YSG who doesn’t want a >25 y/o to be monogamously committed to him in a RP-based relationship, and isn’t actively IN THE MIDDLE OF DOING THIS, talking about this is pointless. My take is: Field Reports or go home.

    I have a friend in his early 20’s who is trying to get into a monogamous relationship with an 18 year old freshman party girl whose favorite hobbies, by her own admission, are hooking up with guys, doing drugs, drinking and shoplifting. I’m not saying she’s immune to masculinity, but the world will never know because my friend is coming from a complete Beta provider mentality, and putting her on a pedestal, hasn’t even fucked her yet, and none of the guys that are actually fucking her are interested in making her their girlfriend.

    And as we all know, fucking a girl does not mean you know how to manage an LTR, or have a truly masculine frame. You had enough to fuck a girl, but if every guy that ever fucked a girl was Alpha the world would be a very different place.

    So for the record, it’s very possible that she has never even experienced a truly masculine frame in her entire life. If modern women are corrupt to the point where decent women are rare, truly, authentically masculine men operating from their own frame are at LEAST equally rare in 2016.

    I was trying to help my friend, and while it’s entirely POSSIBLE that he could have a monogamous relationship with this 18 year old, he has nowhere near the skill set or state of mind necessary to do so.

    Also, screening is important. Here we have an 18 year old who is brand spanking new to college, allegedly smoking hot, allegedly loves doing drugs, getting drunk and fucking guys at parties, is a certified kleptomaniac wild child —

    — for a true Alpha, that’s all no big deal. I just told my friend who has ONE-itis for her, and hasn’t even fucked her yet, to entertain some other women who have his number, and to put her on the back burner. He said he was going to ask her if she wanted to be his girlfriend. In my head I’m just imagining how devastating the rejection will be for him. Maybe it’ll be a good thing in the end. I tried telling him that’s not the way to do it but he wouldn’t listen.

    The idea of pre-selection couldn’t even get across to him. In his mind he wants this one girl, so how could being with other girls help that? Trying to get even the most basic points of pre-selection and scarcity mentality/abundance mentality across was like trying to get blood out of a stone.

    I’ve been there myself. It’s not like I’m some paragon of Red Pill knowledge. I have fucked up way more than average though and I certainly know what DOESN’T work. It takes years to learn this shit, especially for guys who have been plugged in their whole lives and have so many ego investments to get out of the way.

    All that being said, if you are trying for a monogamous relationship and you are not Alpha (i.e. in your Frame, your own mental point of origin, your terms for the relationship) you’re fucked no matter what kind of girl you’re getting with.

    So at the end of the day I do agree that men need to focus on getting better. Specifically, having FRAME and being their own mental point of origin, and give being a selfish prick a try. Don’t be afraid to be the guy that all the girls call “assholes” because those are the guys that all of them have fucked. And the guys they always wish they were with after they’re gone.

    Will women submit to a masculine frame? Sure.

    How many men actually have a masculine frame? That’s another story. Our goal is to strive to be in that top 1% of men who actually have a masculine frame.

  76. @Sentient
    50% not divorced does not mean all those still married are successful. Of that 50% a large portion are sex less, a portion are leading to sex less phase , some are on the brink of divorce. If I was to guess it would be about 10 to 15 % that are healthy marriages and this would probably correlate to the percentage of men who are alpha or able to emulate those characteristics.

  77. OK from the vault… Had a situation like the OP go down… when I was in a strong alpha phase and just blasting through girls… After my long distance GF (of a few months) cheated on me at 19, a switch flipped and that was all it took…

    So I was having my way with girls… One seriously hot little minx in one of my history classes… we would stare at each other every class, but neither of us said anything. This went on for a month or so. One night i was with a buddy visiting me and we were out at this club I was becoming very well known at… a place in a different part of town from campus, that had a very different group of people. So you would rarely run into kids form your school there beyond a small group of regulars… So as I am walking out with buddy behind me, Minx is walking by and it was a total jaw drop on her part when she saw me… We each kept walking but I reached out and we held hands as we kind of spun around, each of us having momentum and it was a WTF! are YOU doing here moment of intense attraction and recognition of the month of staring… We just chatted for a minute or two and he and I split. He was like “damn… who was that girl!”…

    This led to chatting with her in class a few days later and her coming over my place and after the usual routine of hanging out and hanging back she raped me on the floor of my living room and after she RAN out… I was like WTF! Come back… used and abused… LOL So we started “dating” my typical thing was to just hang with the same girl until the nexting happened, not consciously exclusive and some other girls mixed around the edges but mostly with the one I was into at the time. She is inviting me over to Thanksgiving with her family in a few weeks… stuff like that.

    But one night we were out at this club hanging out, and I went to go get something and I come back and she is kissing this guy at the bar. And I am like WTF is this… and she was “oh it’s nothing, he is my old boyfriend… don’t be jealous” and I just said well have at it, but you won’t see me at Thanksgiving. She was pissed, but so what. That was the first girl I just straight up dropped with a finger snap and it felt great. Violate the rules – even unstated lol – you are gone. Mindset served me well going forward…

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