SMV and the Aging Process

aging_process

A comment from a woman on enotalone.com:

I am 31 years old, and not looking for anyone, but I have a lot of guy friends/acquaintances my age and the trend I see is a bit disheartening. There’s about 8 different ones that I know who are between 29-32 and EVERY SINGLE ONE IS DATING A 21-23 YEAR OLD.

I just don’t get it. There are plenty of women closer to their ages and single, but yet they all go for the young women. I feel kind of sad for women entering the dating market, at least where I’m from because it seems women my age have no hope in competing with these younger, perkier women.

Just a rant I suppose. I don’t have anything against younger women of course, but I can’t help but feel a bit unnerved by the trend I see here.

This is an overt observation of what women understand from a very early age – women’s sexual marketability declines with age, while men’s (should) increases as they age. This woman’s concerns should come as no shock to any Red Pill aware man. It’s the clarion call of a woman who’s aging out of the SMP and on the tail end of her Epiphany Phase.

All women have conditions (prerequisites) for men in order for them to become intimate (sexual) with them; he’s got to be good looking, he’s got to be financially stable (surplus resources), he’s got to have some status, respectability, ambition, be confident, he has to be the initiator, he’s has to be decisive, he has to make an emotional connection with her, he’s got have ‘provider’ potential,..etc., etc. And the list goes on and on for any individual woman and according to her ability (i.e. looks) to demand each condition. Each of these personal conditions for intimacy is set in a priority order depending on her ability to demand them and this demand is mediated by her age relative to her attractiveness to men.

It’s no secret that a woman’s sexual marketability declines as she ages and men’s increases as he ages. As a woman ages she progressively loses her ability to physically attract a mate (his one condition for intimacy), thus her conditions and their priority order shift accordingly because she is forced to compete with younger, more attractive women for the same pool of eligible men.

These men tend to be the ones best able to provide for her long term security and any resulting offspring. Thus, well established men (with status, money, hopefully good looks, etc.) in their early 30’s are the prime targets and the more they exemplify her conditions for intimacy, in their existing priority order, the more suitable he becomes for that intimacy and the harder she will compete with other women to achieve his long term commitment.

Pop-psychology would have us believe that women in their late 30’s to early 40’s are in their sexual prime. This may serve to increase the self-esteem of women finding themselves unable to command the male attention they did in their youth, but nothing could be further from the truth. While pre-menopausal women do in fact experience a spike in their testosterone levels and a resulting sex drive increase prior to the last of their eggs dropping, it is women between the ages of 18 and 26 that are in fact in their prime fertility stages. Women’s bodies in this age range are far better prepared for the rigors of pregnancy. At no other phase in her life is she more sexually active and most capable of commanding the attentions of the best male meeting her conditional criteria and in their most strict order. However these conditions are still mediated by her physical attractiveness – thus, if she’s fat her conditions (and their priority) will be adjusted accordingly – but she is nonetheless at her personal prime in this phase.

Unsurprisingly we see in most cultures older males striving for the attentions of the younger and more attractive females, but in western culture he becomes vilified and shamed for this – or at least that’s what western feminized women would like to be the case. The most common complaint women in their mid-thirties bemoan is that “There’s no good men” or they can’t understand why men just can’t “grow up” and find them more attractive than the young women they used to be themselves.

Increasingly, ‘careerist women’ desiring to finally start a family at age 35 find that men – particularly the ones that meet their conditions – in their age range (33-38) are not interested in women (to say nothing of ‘careerist women’) of their own age range. They’re interested in the 22 year olds who wouldn’t give them the time of day when they didn’t have the status (or maturity) that they’ve just discovered they now have. And of course the 35 year old career woman was one of these 22 year old girls, only 13 years prior, who was doing precisely the same thing the 22 year old girls are doing today.

But that doesn’t stop 30 something women from complaining about how men their age are ‘infantile’ for wanting to breed with ‘little girls’, rather than mature, intelligent, respectable career women such as themselves. They are incapable of conceiving why men ‘wont live up to their responsibilities’ and commit to a lifetime with them. They write article after article about how men are in fact threatened by their ‘successfulness’ or their ‘status’, when the simple fact remains that his breeding choices are dictated by one single condition – she’s got to be hot. Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. The mid-thirties woman is (with a few notable exceptions) simply not as attractive as younger women.

So as an unspoken reaction to this predicament we get to see the popularity of the idea that “You can be 40 and still ‘have it'” among women. “Those men and their fragile egos just don’t know what they’re missing. How dare they be aroused by, and date younger more attractive women, we’ll show them”, they’d have them believe and pander to this dynamic while encouraging the fallacy that ‘men ought to be ashamed of their sexual impulse.

And finally we encounter the 40+ woman looking for what she couldn’t get in her 30s. Her priorities and conditions for intimacy have been altered radically now. At 40, the career woman has abandoned the idea of long term commitment; she may make up some sort of internalized blame for men not accepting her, but the truth comes that time has or is running out.

Perhaps she’s divorced, perhaps she’s a single mother, but at 40+ the importance becomes sex as empowerment for her. She still wants to know she’s ‘still got it’ and since none of the men of the age she’d like to be in an LTR with are biting she’ll be more than happy to get with a 22 year old ‘hunk’. They’re easy pickin’s since none of the girls their own age are interested in them.

They’re virile, young, dumb and full of cum. That’ll show those immature older men who don’t know how to commit! She’ll beat ’em at their own game. “Look at what I’ve got! A hot guy (relative, actually) who knows how to pleasure an older woman”; again shaming and insinuating older men’s sexual performance isn’t up to ‘women’s standards’. All conditions for intimacy and the priority orders she had before are out the window with the exception of physical attractiveness now, which, interestingly enough, has been a man’s only condition since he hit puberty. She’s come full circle, only now she makes an effort to enhance her appearance in the gym, with plastic surgery, Botox, breast augmentation, anything that will increase the attraction for young guys.

And of course the young guys are all too happy to ‘fill that hole’ (pun intended) since the effort required to get after it with the 40+ is practically nil and the rejection ratio is far lower. In addition most 22 year old guys know an LTR is more or less out of the question; they may be a booty call for her, but that’s an ideal situation for him, sex on demand with no expectation of any form of security for her. They like to make up reasonings like “she’s more experienced in bed” or “we’re both in our sexual primes”, but this just serves to justify him being a booty call, as if he’d have a problem with that.

The real irony of the whole situation is that 40+ woman is now doing exactly what she mercilessly criticized these ‘immature’, problematic 30-40 something men for doing. However, we don’t see any articles telling women to grow up, or to do the right thing or how infantile they are for sexually desiring younger men. On the contrary, they’re applauded for ‘bucking the system’ and embracing their sexual natures (as if they were formerly repressed) and “You go girl!” using isolated celebrity examples like Demi Moore fucking Ashton Kutcher as a role model.

The SMP After Marriage

For a long while I’ve been content to let bloggers like Athol Kay address sexual dynamics post-marriage (or LTR). I don’t think it’s any real secret that Married Man Sex Life has been more than compromised by a feminine-correct influence and the discussion is now directed by women’s imperatives there. This has been the forum’s state for some time now. So as such, I feel it’s kind of incumbent upon me to open myself up to addressing Red Pill issues within marriage (or LTRs) for the foreseeable future. This is just an avenue I’ll be opening up here, not a particular focus, don’t worry.

The following was a comment from YaReally in last week’s thread. I thought this more or less summed up the disconnect he believes exists between Old Married Guys (OMGs) and Young Single Guys (YSGs) who both have enough Red Pill awareness to want to employ it in their marriages as well as the plates they’re spinning as a PUA:

Keeping your 70yo wife attracted to you simply doesn’t come with the same obstacles modern men trying to keep a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016 attracted face. This is just objective reality. Again we’re happy for you and your wives that you find them attractive still, that’s awesome, but no one over at the RVF is posting your wives’ pics in the “post your idea of a 10” threads…they OBJECTIVELY have low SMV, and lower SMV than you super badasses as they age, and it’s simple logic that a a man keeping a low SMV woman is a different situation than a man keeping a high SMV woman.

This is an interesting paradox for OMGs, but I think it’s also not accounting for how sexual priorities and Frame shifts as a couple matures. The most glaring shift is of course maturing men’s SMV comparative to their wives’ will almost always be an order of magnitude above that of their wives’. As I laid out in Preventive Medicine, at this stage of maturity the task for wives becomes one of keeping that husband in the dark about his real SMV status; the concern being his sexual disinterest in her and him coming to a realization of his SMV and he leaves her for ‘younger, hotter, tighter’. Whether this is an actual threat is often inconsequential – unless that guy is so thoroughly Beta and ridiculous he’ll overtly acknowledge it – what occurs at this phase of a woman’s maturity is either a passive form of Dread or a feeling of regret for not having better optimized Hypergamy for herself so late in life.

Most men (i.e. Blue Pill Betas) never make this connection and blunder through their peak SMV years with a wife whose late-life competition anxiety sounds like nagging most of the time, or else it’s a possessive Frame grab with the latent purpose of keeping him focused on “her needs” rather than coming to understand he’s in the best position to capitalize on his SMV in his lifetime. This is actually part of the Blue Pill, feminine-correct plan for maintaining an optimal Hypergamy (or at least the impression of it) for women.

I’ve mentioned countless times on this blog that men’s peak SMV years are generally around the age of 34-38 depending upon how well he’s established himself in a variety of ways that contribute to it. As Red Pill awareness grows I (hopefully) expect more men will be able to capitalize on their moment of clarity as well as use this peak moment to enjoy and choose what’s best for themselves and their futures with regards to women. When men reach this peak it is generally a point at which women are also at their most necessitous (i.e. the Epiphany Phase). This simple matter of logistics also contributes to that man’s peak SMV in the form of making his commitment a valued commodity – presuming he’s built himself into that peak in the years prior to it.

My hope would be that men simply forestall any and all monogamous commitment until this phase, but for the men who find themselves in this peak phase while married, it is the most opportune time in which you can push the envelope with your wife from a Red Pill perspective. One grave error I think Athol Kay has made is in his “mindful attraction plan” – a feminized, feminine-correct watering down of his previous version’s attraction plan – his emphasis is to not go too overt or exaggerate a husbands SMV or make a Red Pill Alpha impression so threatening that it causes dread in his wife. I would argue that this is precisely what he needs to inculcate in his wife, and particularly if, up until this phase, she’s firmly dictated the Frame of their relationship since marriage.

I should add that this advice isn’t meant as some form of punishment or a big ‘get even’ with a man’s wife, but rather, a man pressing his SMV advantage at this point, to the point of instilling dread, will form a more solid attachment with his dominant Frame being the primary one – which is something his wife has likely craved for their marriage since the outset.

What YaReally (probably inadvertently) is revealing here is that women of lower SMV are far easier to attract and keep attracted than high (peak) SMV women. As women age that SMV advantage decreases, but the majority of men – and particularly married Beta men – still believe that their older wives and lower SMV women require the same or more attention to maintain that attraction.

Feminine-primary social conventions build this into a man’s Blue Pill conditioning so he believes that a marriage “always requires a lot of work” before and after he’s been married. This is why Athol’s Blue Pill advice of not overdoing the Alpha is so in error; it proceeds from the same sentiment that women need security during the part of a man’s life where he’s at his SMV peak and she’s at her most necessitous. A man’s “Burden of Performance” is then distorted by the Feminine Imperative to be defined as how well he will can quell his wife’s insecurities about him being in the best SMV status of his life.

Pop culture likes to call this effect “wife goggles”, but that’s a euphemism for how feminine-primary social conventions have conditioned men to feel a need to pander to their wife’s insecurity. In doing so they self-defeat any positive effect that this natural dread would benefit him and his relationship with his wife. If a man makes a conscious choice to limit himself in the phase of his life where he can best capitalize on his peak SMV this lifts the burden of a woman being the focus of him having to do so to make her feel secure.

And all of this has been about married men; feminine-primary social conventions have a whole set of social dictates intended to get a single man in this phase of life to willfully limit his own options. This is why we get shaming tactics and presumptions of ego-centrism for men in this demographic. This is why they’re called commit-o-phobes; because the hope is that these men will feel some measure of inappropriateness about their natural sexual impulses and choose an older women as a choice of mate. A woman who, again, is at her most necessitous and insecure about her future in the SMP or her long term prospectives.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

@culum

Congats

even tho

you cheated…

lol still using online crutch there buddy lol

I understand tho, in a shitty environment tinder is on the money. Good job in setting up a profile that can get you laid tho, that takes some effort.

Now you just gotta do that whole process with the asian exactly the same, on a hotter chick, off a cold approach.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Othergrain: “Lol after all your time in the manosphere this is now a problem for you?” No. “Everyone’s hung up in the terminology . . .” Without clear language everything means nothing. Producing that state is a social strategy. ” let’s call it Cad Cock and Dad Dollars.” That would likely be an improvement. “Do you have an argument against the main point though, that certain actions are associated with provider?” @Sentient: “. . . the entire case is based around the use of the undefined term “provisioning”. . .” Beat me to it. @Othergrain: ““What’s an AMOG?” uh oh!… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“”Everyone’s hung up in the terminology…”

On Dad Dollars – when does that kick in? Is it $5, $20? $100?”

Case in point lol

“Now if you pay the $20 tab and use your Uber on your 1 hour pull ONS… well Scray might say you are beta… No matter…”

You must have missed the 100 times where we’ve pointed to the difference between a beta action, and the man himself…

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“Without clear language everything means nothing. Producing that state is a social strategy.”

I thought we were all on the same page with AF and BB, but apparently since wolf packs use the same hierarchy titles, those words have no local meaning in the manosphere. Suddenly you and sentient don’t know what provisioning means either?

“The leking arena:”

What is isolation?

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Othergrain

You must have missed the 100 times where we’ve pointed to the difference between a beta action, and the man himself…

welcome to your revolving door…

sfer
sfer
7 years ago

@forge the sky

that “where do SJW come from?” video was way more interesting than I thought it would be.

actual spit on this board between:

“openness to experience” dudes who emphasize the field, and
“conscientiousness” dudes who emphasize hard work.

is unlikely to be mended since it mimics liberal/conservative positions like the dude in the video says.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
7 years ago

“it’s bc the girl wants the D…lol… but not kidding…”

Heh.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“What is isolation?”

What is “my dad”? What is “my first”? What is an Alpha Widow?

What is hypergamy?

No woman is ever without the company of a group of men. No woman ceases to compare them.

comment image

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago
hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

Uhhh, forgot about the three link limit. Posted my Halloween FRs here

Rollo save me

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“As a verb, AMOG means to elicit deference from a group of men.”

The men in her HEAD can’t elicit deference from you lol

What is “taking over her RAS”? How can you have a girl focused ONLY on you while an AMOG keeps trying to get your attention?

“No woman is ever without the company of a group of men. No woman ceases to compare them.”

She does when she realizes you’re the best.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@rollo yet still realistically expect to go home with an HB9 (after stealing her from a guy who is displaying Alpha subcoms) what is the X-Factor that allows me to compensate for all of those socio-sexual disadvantages? realistic is an interesting term for that. i’ll just assume that this hypothetical dude has amazing level game. the”x-factor” is adjusting his behavior accordingly to change the room’s initial perception of him. you seem to be trying to say that the genesis of his changed behavior is a change in mindset. but unless his mindset is “100% sociopath out for myself” then the… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“If I can go out in Dockers, balding with a paunch, and displaying for everyone in a social environment what anyone would consider Beta subcoms, yet still realistically expect to go home with an HB9 (after stealing her from a guy who is displaying Alpha subcoms) what is the X-Factor that allows me to compensate for all of those socio-sexual disadvantages?”

I mean, you won’t go home with an HB9 if you’re doing all those things. You won’t steal her from a guy displaying alpha subcomms.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient

Now if you pay the $20 tab and use your Uber on your 1 hour pull ONS… well Scray might say you are beta… No matter…

one day you’ll get the point. until then I guess it will be a shining star over your head.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“She does when she realizes you’re the best.”

What is “best”?

scray
scray
7 years ago

trying to base it on mindset is just a useless black box because if you asked most beta dudes why they support their wives, they’d offer up the same ‘because i want to’ bullshit.

like, someone’s mindset half functions to rationalize the behavior they are undertaking.

so unless society is just full of alpha providers (by their own words a lot of these betas are doing it for themselves)….people talking about their own motives, esp when it comes to sex, really isn’t that reliable.

instead….

WATCH. WHAT. THEY. DO.

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“What is “best”?”

It depends upon what the meaning of the word “is” is… lol

I mean her hypergamous brain sees you as her best option, but I think you knew that already.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Q: What is a PUA?
A: Someone who know more and more about picking up girls and less and less about people.

I do not say that as a pejorative, but as a warning.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“I mean her hypergamous brain sees you as her best option, but I think you knew that already.”

Sure. And you answered with something that only has meaning with regard to elements of set.

Something that never occurs to a bear, as it mates opportunistically. Hypergamy doesn’t care about bears, because bears are not hypergamous.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMQRatjDIqK

instead….

WATCH. WHAT. THEY. DO.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient

i know….holy shit…..a MIX of alpha and beta traits…

like i’ve been saying all along….

howeeeee
sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

You can use the word Alpha Provider… because it’s not about stuff… it’s about mindset.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient

You can use the word Alpha Provider… because it’s not about stuff… it’s about mindset.

it’s about behavior (if we’re going by evo-psych, which you guys do until the definitions and terms become inconvenient of course lol).

and alpha provider can be used under my formulation too — because it allows for a mix of alpha and beta traits.

cool
story
bruh

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“instead….

WATCH. WHAT. THEY. DO.”

And then pejoritively interpret it (with your PUA goggles firmly in place).

As long as everyone is asking questions, I have one.

What is your definition of infield, infield practice and infield experience for OMGs? How does this relate to red pill awareness and game practice and sexual strategy?

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Scray – The evo psych people claim alpha is about social dominance, not being a cad exclusively. Being a cad is a way of establishing social dominance in some settings. It is not the only way and in fact, submission is often better achieved via combination of the carrot and the stick. Oftentimes people will feign submission to the “cad”. Social dominance can be established and maintained via doses of the asshole mixed with other aspects of leadership and dominance. Consider how you as a PUA handle AMOGing, do you try to “out-cad” him? Seems to me you use him… Read more »

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scray… let me introduce you to Scray From A Couple Pages Ago:

“a girl’s ideal is an Alpha provider. The two don’t usually go together.”

They don’t ever go together.

The whole sexual strategy of ‘alpha’ is premised around not providing lol.

it’s cool tho.

men have unicorns too….the super virginal slutty horny devil beast etc.

MrT
MrT
7 years ago

@kfg “I do not say that as a pejorative, but as a warning.” lol @rollo ““If I can go out in Dockers, balding with a paunch, and displaying for everyone in a social environment what anyone would consider Beta subcoms, yet still realistically expect to go home with an HB9 (after stealing her from a guy who is displaying Alpha subcoms) what is the X-Factor that allows me to compensate for all of those socio-sexual disadvantages?” If you dont demonstrate alpha subcomms, you are not going home with HB9. But if youre only dislaying beta with apearance, then you can… Read more »

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient

well they literally don’t UNLESS (here comes the point you KEEP ON MISSING, hoss): there’s a mix of alpha and beta traits.

one day you’ll get it. lol.

And then pejoritively interpret it (with your PUA goggles firmly in place).

is it fun talking about shit that never happened and shit I never did? seems like it.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Scray

I now see that things that were mutually exclusive just days ago, Alpha and Provider are now mutually inclusive… now when you give some real thought as to how and why and the implications of that… it will all become clear. Glad to have helped.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@Sentient I now see that things that were mutually exclusive just days ago, Alpha and Provider are now mutually inclusive… now when you give some real thought as to how and why and the implications of that… it will all become clear. Glad to have helped. they are mutually exclusive if alpha and beta traits don’t mix in one individual, i.e. the ‘mindset’ formulation where all things are alpha or beta based on the genesis of mindset, and mutually inclusive if they can, i.e. my simple and correct formulation. Glad to have helped, but because you’re still misunderstanding, it’s sort… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

Kfg

I’m not even sure what were arguing over at this point, seems like we’re deep in the weeds.

“Sure. And you answered with something that only has meaning with regard to elements of set.”

Show me how my ignoring the greater social implications of alpha and beta have distorted my position.

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

“is it fun talking about shit that never happened and shit I never did? ”

Yes.

Also about shit that you imply. You know, in your sub-comms when speaking among other men.

scray
scray
7 years ago

Also about shit that you imply. You know, in your sub-comms when speaking among other men.

well because you don’t need me or my actual words or actual intent for the “SJF infers a bunch of shit no one said” show, I’ll leave you to it.

having a bad day
having a bad day
7 years ago

@Culum

way to go, sherman!… i KNEW you had rhythm…lol

good luck!

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

….where does this ” we ” keep coming from in discussions?

happens frequently.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Is it perhaps the Royal ” we “?

MrT
MrT
7 years ago

@blax

The Royal Terminology Society

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Othergrain: “Show me how my ignoring the greater social implications of alpha and beta have distorted my position.”

“A 100% alpha harambe dick swinging psychopath . . .”

There’s no such thing. It is an oxymoron.

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

No such thing as a 100% alpha? I agree, they don’t exist. But if your proof that my estimation is off is in the specific words of hyperbole I chose, well then I don’t see your argument.

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

Scray – I didn’t think you were open to coaching. I don’t care. You can destroy all your social capital here, have at it. Just know that you are incorrect in many of your assertions.

mersonia
7 years ago
kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“But if your proof that my estimation is off is in the specific words of hyperbole . . .”

Not in their hyperbole, but in their incongruity. That incongruity must have appeared congruous in your mind, or you wouldn’t have conjoined the terms.

I have actually met a dick swinging psychopath. He was never anybody’s alpha and is currently in solitary for multiple life terms. If I’d met him in Texas he’d be dead.

Alphas generate social coherence.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Question: Where does the ” Fake it till you make it ” saying come from?

And what exactly is being ” faked “?

MrT
MrT
7 years ago

@rollo Well its a choice. Even if I feel like a complete piece of shit that doesnt deserve anything, I will it choose to demostrate alpha subcomms (and beta sometimes) if it suits me. And vice versa. Granted Im aware of the whole subcomms thing, so someone who does not might unconsciously choose depending on feeling good, bad (mood), confident, etc. Also women see the immediate subcomms. That why you can save a set and fuck it up quickly. And people display multiple subcomms at the same time so thats a factor. So the effect is almost never a dichotomy… Read more »

hank holiday
hank holiday
7 years ago

@pua

posted my halloween FRs above, if anyone wants to do breakdowns of them. thanks

https://therationalmale.com/2016/10/31/smv-and-the-aging-process/comment-page-4/#comment-176635

@rollo

thanks

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“Am I wrong about the importance of mindset to PUA?”

No, but the mindset is not what is attractive to the woman (our working definition of alpha (AF) for this discussion), the actions a man takes are. Whether those actions come from an internalized mindset of abundance, or its someone trying to fake it til he makes it is irrelevant.

Now, will a certain mindset result in more behaviour that is attractive to women (alpha)? Absolutely, it will make it more natural and congruent (more convincing that he’s attractive).

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

kfg

So your argument does rest on two words I joined together in one example of hyperbole.

Blax

As Jeffy said “how would I act if i was cooler than her?” ACT in a way that a guy cooler than her would, until you internalize the MINDSET that you are cooler than her. Or attractive or w/e

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

othergrain

“No, but the mindset is not what is attractive to the woman (our working definition of alpha (AF) for this discussion), the actions a man takes are. Whether those actions come from an internalized mindset of abundance, or its someone trying to fake it til he makes it is irrelevant.”

…but, doesn’t the mindset influence or even drive the action?

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

“Now, will a certain mindset result in more behaviour that is attractive to women (alpha)? Absolutely, it will make it more natural and congruent (more convincing that he’s attractive).”

The New Military is a doomed, literal, clusterfuck.

The enlisted women are hot for the officers. The officers are forbidden to consent to the enlisted women.

And hypergamy doesn’t care.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Othergrain: “So your argument does rest on two words I joined together”

To this, yes.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
7 years ago

Fake it until you make it…

The phrase is used a lot in medical training. Rarely, is training better than on live subjects. Therefore, months, years are spent increasing one’s knowledge and practical application. Abandoning reservation through “faking it” is essential in overcoming fear of inflicting unintentional physical damage. While faking it medical students improve to one day “make it”.

Short answer: Faking competency.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

” As Jeffy said “how would I act if i was cooler than her?” ACT in a way that a guy cooler than her would, until you internalize the MINDSET that you are cooler than her. Or attractive or w/e” Got it. But I am cooler than 99% of women out there already, soooo…..there’s that. I’m not being difficult in the discussion. Remember, not everyone is a pua. I certainly am not, nor do I need to be. But I’m still trying to understand, for the sake of understanding. It’s interesting to watch pua guys work stuff out and all,… Read more »

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“…but, doesn’t the mindset influence or even drive the action?”

Yea but a mindset can be wrong lol. Picture the typical nice guy AFC. He THINKS what he’s doing is attractive to women (they say they want nice guys, right!?) But his actions are unattractive nonetheless.

That’s why PUA teaches right action, wether you fully believe it yet or not.

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

*beleive IN it yet or not.

mersonia
7 years ago

@Blaximus “Just doing whatever you feel like doing That’s a mindset that must be developed. Lots of guys will never get there. They won’t get there because they will be too concerned with appearances and double checking for some form of approval. I know this when I see this.” Yeah man its rare…especially in the manosphere because most guys are so obsessed with being alpha and can’t fathom that they aren’t a 100% super alpha beast that will never do beta behaviors and have to rationalize it anyway they can. Because in some world(lol) apparently doing one beta behavior for… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

Another way to characterize alpha is “the man who makes the rules.”

mersonia
7 years ago

@KFG

“Another way to characterize alpha is “the man who makes the rules.”

You can continue to characterize it as whatever you like.

Leader of men and Alpha were never the same.

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“Got it. But I am cooler than 99% of women out there already, soooo…..there’s that.” Lol ya you’ve internalized it long ago, hence not understanding “fake it” “So I’m not being a dick or just being contrary for the hell of it, but in my years on the planet I have boned my share of chicks, even married a couple, and had some kids. Everything is not always so cut and dry and formulaic, imo. Be careful about this as it can be limiting.” I know you’re sincere, and honestly it IS a bit pedantic lol. I was of the… Read more »

newlyaloof
7 years ago

OT:
Oh God!

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Mersonia Still ducking my questions… why? Because in some world(lol) apparently doing one beta behavior for example provisioning as according to sentient will make you 100% beta because it is a beta behavior…. instead of just being a alpha dude with some beta behaviors ….which if you didn’t do society would stop working and no one would want to be around you cause if you’ve ever met someone close to 100% they’re probably in jail or dead. Recall that this entire conversation started when I seconded Simon on the “Alpha Provider” point… and was told it wasn’t ever possible…. Give… Read more »

scray
scray
7 years ago

@scribblerg You can destroy all your social capital here, have at it. Just know that you are incorrect in many of your assertions. thanks mom. @rollo Am I wrong about the importance of mindset to PUA? i quote myself: ‘you seem to be trying to say that the genesis of his changed behavior is a change in mindset. but unless his mindset is “100% sociopath out for myself” then the resultant behaviors from that mindset will be a MIX of ALPHA and BETA. lol. mindsets give rise to the sexual strategy, but the sexual strategy is the tally of alpha… Read more »

scray
scray
7 years ago

@sentient

Recall that this entire conversation started when I seconded Simon on the “Alpha Provider” point… and was told it wasn’t ever possible….

Give it a try sometime, actual comprehension. It will change your life.

lol take your own advice

alpha provider i.e. providing as alpha trait = IMPOSSIBLE NON-SEQUITUR BS

alpha provider i.e. a (relative) alpha (since no one is 100% alpha) who possesses the BETA TRAIT of providing = yes this is possible.

you’re trying to argue the first, which is silly.

anon
anon
7 years ago

kfg: “The New Military is a doomed, literal, clusterfuck.
The enlisted women are hot for the officers. The officers are forbidden to consent to the enlisted women.
And hypergamy doesn’t care.”

In the context, this seems a non sequitur. Not sure where it came from, but true nonetheless.
Also true, enlisted guys are equally (metaphorically) fucked.
Voted today and did my part.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

” …which if you didn’t do society would stop working and no one would want to be around you cause if you’ve ever met someone close to 100% they’re probably in jail or dead.”

Survey says!!!!! Buuzzzzzz

Awwwwwwww…..

Why is it automatically assumed that a higher alpha quotient equals criminality and sociopathy?

What gives?

So the narrative is that Alpha doesn’t equal ” good “…

But it does equal ” bad ” if there’s ” too much “.

Shit’s confusing.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

How did men ever get laid prior to pua?

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“How did men ever get laid prior to pua?”

Game 😉

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

scray – “provisions” are only beta in your forced definition as a start…

No one got back to me on whether electricity was beta… or chablis… 🙁

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

What is beta?

The antonyms of the Alpha Triad of dynamic, passionate and authentic… [have a hoot and look up the synonyms while you’re at it]

Antonyms for dynamic:

fruitless idle impotent inactive incapable ineffective lethargic lifeless unproductive weak apathetic boring dull passive unexciting

Antonyms for passionate

apathetic cold dull frigid indifferent uncaring unenthusiastic unexcited

Antonyms for authentic

corrupt doubtful false implausible improbable incredible invalid unlikely unreliable untrustworthy counterfeit fake falsified unauthorized ungenuine

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

But really I think Beta can be boiled down to one trait…

Blax can you fill in the blanks? _ _ _ _.

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Mersonia: “Leader of men and Alpha were never the same.”

That’s right, but they were never separable either, except for the purposes of discussion.

Nor is “making the rules” the same as “leader of men.” A man who “does what he wants” is making the rules. Men and/or women may then follow his lead.

Worked for Humphrey Bogart . . . and Charles Manson.

EhIntellect
EhIntellect
7 years ago

IMO Moscato is beta

Heh.

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Blax – Ain’t it nice sitting on the sidelines? My only complaint is that this thread is turning into another shit show of adolescent snark. Remember how good the interactions and conversations were just a page or two ago? Being socially retarded can come in many forms. Funniest? Scray doesn’t even realize that nobody has told him he is wrong – not once. What we’ve been doing is kicking the idea around and learning as we do and discussing it. Seems to escape him utterly, and every comment has to be about how we are not in the “field”. I… Read more »

kfg
kfg
7 years ago

@Blaximus: “Why is it automatically assumed that a higher alpha quotient equals criminality and sociopathy?”

I’ve been out doing shit for awhile and now you’re getting ahead of my narrative. Usually that’s Forge’s job.

IAS
IAS
7 years ago

@newlyaloof: thanks, that does help. No wonder I was having trouble distinguished C1, C2 and even C3. They are apparently the same, in different places?

othergrain
othergrain
7 years ago

“But of course I was of such high value naturally that I needed no game to get there versus some insecure loser. With game? I’d be over 1000.”

Lmfao at a man over 50 stroking his fragile ego on the internet. On top of contributing nothing useful to the discussion, besides warnings of losing cred.

You’re right, WE are kicking ideas around.

Being socially retarded comes in many forms.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@scribblerg

Just know that you are incorrect in many of your assertions.
Scray doesn’t even realize that nobody has told him he is wrong – not once

comment image

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

Easy othergrain…..

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Sentient

” Blax can you fill in the blanks? _ _ _ _.”

Not sure. Multitasking up a storm.

It’s either ” weak ” or ” chode “….but chode has too many letters.

I’ll go with weak for a thousand.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ scrib Yup, I’m taking your advice. I am a supporter of pua for the most part, and I know that you are also. It’s just that some ” older ” guys did manage to have quite a bit of sex before pua became a ” thing “, and we may just know a thing or three. Doesn’t really matter though. Don’t sweat it for a second. Sometimes ( not all the time, or in every instance ) pua dudes get so hyped up that they seem to think they’ve re-invented the wheel or something. The ” old man ”… Read more »

mersonia
7 years ago

@Blaximus ” The ” old man ” shaming shit just won’t get the traction that they’d like.” It’s not old man shaming…..Just because you don’t like what you’ve heard doesn’t mean its shaming babe. “It is interesting though, that a man could have been having sex for decades, even before some of the pua’s were out of diapers, but they now have every, single answer possible.” Well it’s more of an understanding of whats going on………and why it happen. Rather than the whole “” I use to slay 202023 pususuyes pussiez lzozozozozlz”” but it stops working for them and they… Read more »

SJF
SJF
7 years ago

@ ScribblerG I just now watching Spielberg’s movie Minority Report (circa 2002). (The one with the odd firearm John Anderton carries, Beretta 9000S. HeeHee, I’m embarrassed to say I own one of those.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2n7SXUM9m0 What the discussion has devolved into is (David) “Hume’s Fork”. I’m on record as liking to take a fork (or even KFG’s alternative to Robert Frost’s choice). And I don’t think the current discussion is without value. (And even though painful, I think every previous discussion of the YSG’s and OMG’s–as well as old Single Guys has been fruitful. But then again, I thing everything matters).… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

DisgruntledEarthling: He balls up and dumps her sorry ass. It’s not that hard to do. Did this after 28 years. That’s one option. As I noted up front Rollo’s opinion is some relationships are too damaged to salvage. In neural terms, too many amygdala alert “Enemy action!” paths to easily reroute. Rebooting with a different woman, a formalized NEXT! is one option. Although there are men who will try to endure, because they believe it is their duty to do so. Those are the men I’m thinking about. Children change things (no, Blax / Scrib / Sentient /Scray /Ya, I’m… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ mersonia Okay. I will try to have a convo with you about this because you aren’t just sniping. ” It’s not old man shaming…..Just because you don’t like what you’ve heard doesn’t mean its shaming babe.” No, it is an attempt. It’s pretty blatant when it happens. What I ” like ” has nothing to do with it. Over the past few posts, in the comment section, there’s a taunting that occurs. ” Omg’s ” taunting. Sometimes for no real reason at all. I’ve been reading along with the comments and then, BAM, some dipshit will just chime in… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@othergrain

Just to clarify, none of the above is aimed at you.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Blax

F E A R

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ Sentient

Lol. I’m distracted today.

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

…wtf is up with Ukrainian hackers?

Somebody needs to authorize a few surgical drone strikes.

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

Novaseeker on judgybitch’s excellent Krav Maga adventure: What can happen, if the other spouse doesn’t “keep up”, is that the spouse who is taking it to the next level gradually loses attraction for the spouse who is not. This happens in a lot of ways. I’ve told this story before, it bears retelling. A man I know is in sales. Much of his sales is repeat business, he has an easy-going, affable nature that fits in his field really well. He’s not a world-beating Alpha Salez Champeen D00D, but he does all right. He was married with two children. His… Read more »

mersonia
7 years ago

@Blaximus “Nobody knows much about you guys because you will only participate if YaReally or scray happen to be having a disagreement with some commenters. Then you guys magically show up.” Nah I posted some shit you didn’t read. It was rather recent too. “And finally, this is not actually a pua site. Not really. But it is unmoderated and Rollo has zero issues with a pua context.” No one said it was love …but look at red pills origin. So in closing. qq life isn’t fair omgs cant sit here and circle jerk without having someone open the door… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

And it’s KFG for the win: “Alphas generate social coherence.”

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Scray – What a perfect example of your picayune, word parsing, non-arguments. What I meant is that in the conversation about alpha vs. beta wrt to provisioning, nobody has told you that you are wrong.

The assertions I was referring to is how you characterize other folks here.

Stop being such a tedious cunt.

Sentient
Sentient
7 years ago

Still ducking my questions Mersonia…

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Mercuntia – Wait, I thought “the field is everything” – If Blax and I got more pussy than many PUAs, doesn’t that make us right? Lol. Just playing the bullshit back at ya.

scray
scray
7 years ago

@scribblerg The assertions I was referring to is how you characterize other folks here. fine, please respond to this quote from before: “here quote where I said these words I’m accused of saying, scribb, because of my “closed and biased” mind (hint: nowhere!): ” When you start advocating universal non-provider, non beta, all alpha strategies for all of Game” “You talk all alpha, beta sucks,” ” Scray believes if you’re not alpha you’re beta”’ You know I didn’t say any of those things which means that my “characterization” of the others here was dead on like the rest of my… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@Mersonia – I know, it’s hard for you to imagine what it’s like to walk in a room and everyone notices you because of the power and energy you radiate – without taking a PUA course. It’s tough to understand that you have to work hard to fake it when some guys just have it. That’s okay, I’ve been dealing with people biting at my ankles my whole life. People always want to take you down when you have a lot of value. They talk and snipe and conspire – and then get destroyed when they dare actually confront guys… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
Anonymous Reader
7 years ago

habd those are 3 quick ones off the top of my head… and they should at least start to change the dynamic in the marriage, if he does that consistently… Always interesting to read your observations, advice, etc. But…. You’re missing the point. Assume a man has done that. He has regained some control, maybe a fair amount. He has enough Game that other women are giving him IOI’s that he recognizes. The problem is this: his wife just isn’t attractive to him anymore. His Wife Goggles are broken. He sees her as she is; like some middle aged mouthy… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
7 years ago

@ AR

I ” see ” you and I cosign.

scribblerg
scribblerg
7 years ago

@HABD – I can’t possibly thank you enough. I used revisualization on the time in the ER and on my scene with my daughter and I felt an immediate release and lightening. It was as though the frequency of my brain activity increased or changed or elevated. I immediately felt lighter and more energized. More to come. The anxiety has been destroying my RP progress as it’s a constant block to being “dynamic, passionate and authentic”. It’s like a misfire in my synapses. a short circuit that just ruins me and everything around me. This is really big for me.… Read more »

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