Open Relationships

Functional_cuckoldry

During the last post’s comment thread I sort of went back in time to when I’d first heard the term ‘open relationship’. It was back in the mid 80s and I’d heard it being proposed to me by my first girlfriend when I was around 19 and she’d grown bored of my predictable Beta perfection. Needless to say this moment preceded my semi-pro rock star 20s and the natural Alpha-ness I matured into. So at the time I was thoroughly steeped in the dutiful Beta conditioning of believing that ‘going steady’ monogamy and only banging the ONE girl was the right thing to do.

I also believed that women’s motives were reliably based on what they said rather than what their behaviors implied (and their contradicting behaviors were the result of being confused by nebulous ‘society’s’ unfair expectations of women). So it was with a great deal of confusion that I was forced to wrap my head around exactly why my ‘girlfriend’ would want to retain me as an intimate orbiter while she pursued other guys to bang and become potential intimates with.

She suggested an “open relationship” – all the same non-sexual intimate expectations with no expectation of reciprocal sexual fidelity –  an idea she’d no doubt been familiarized with from her former hippie ‘free love‘ parents. And not unlike the simpering Beta in today’s cartoon, I too was uncomfortable with sharing my 18 year old girlfriend with any other guy. Looking back it was quite the conflict to my 19 year old, Beta conditioned mind. On one hand I was taught to respect the independence of a woman and didn’t want to be the guy to tell her what she could or couldn’t do, but I also bought into the Disneyesque sacrifice all for true love narrative.

I suppose now I owe her some gratitude since my rejecting this “I want to play the field” episode was instrumental in setting me on a course for my Alpha 20s and the “don’t give a fuck” attitude that unintentionally served me so well with women then.

Today there are cutesy synonyms like ‘poly’ to describe a woman who believes it’s in her multiple lovers’, as well as her own, mutual interests that they obligate themselves to what really amounts to her attention, emotional and sexual needs independent of each guy who fulfills that role for her. The problem arises in the degree of investment those men believe that an above board ‘poly’ woman will be able to appreciate. I had this situation presented in last weeks’ comments:

Why does an open relationship favor women and not men? It’s only cuckoldry if you don’t approve of it. If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.

The cuckoldry Devil is in the details; and in this case that Devil is in the perceived ‘agreement’ and who’s doing the agreeing. Contemporary Open Cuckoldry and the social conventions of ‘free love’ era faux-idealisms in ‘open relationships’ work in tandem today to promote the sexual selection strategy of women’s Hypergamy.

Cuckoldry, in its most visceral, Hypergamous sense, favors women because there is no margin for error on a man’s part. Bear in mind that an ‘open’ relationship only serves a woman’s sexual imperative because she benefits from comfort, rapport, security and likely provisioning of the primary man with whom she’s come to this agreement with. In all honesty I’ve rarely met a guy in an open relationship who wasn’t a Beta at the mercy of his wife or LTR’s proliferative phase, Alpha Fucks, Hypergamous impulses.

Most of them understand their optionless condition and resign themselves to the women they’ve committed to, wanting to, and acting on fucking more suitably, conventionally, masculine men than themselves. Arguably, most stay at home fathers fall into a sort of contextual form of an open relationship for much of the same reasons even if their wives are only getting a vicarious Alpha ‘fix’ by working among higher status men who haven’t abdicated on their burden of performance by adopting the feminine support role.

What About Those Assholes?

Now I am aware of the often domineering men who insist on fucking women outside of their commitment to a monogamous lover. I also understand that the reverse can and does apply. I’m also aware that when a man’s SMV exceeds a woman’s it places her into a similar position to that of the Beta men I’ve just described.

Bear in mind that the issue I’m on about here isn’t one of fault, but rather how an effectively polygamous relationship serves the interests of either genders’ sexual strategy.

It’s vitally important to consider how both of these ‘open relationship’ formats are popularly perceived in a cultural context. For a woman, being ‘poly’ may hold some stigma to it. She may be considered a de facto slut in some sense – remember she’s maintaining the pretense that she’s committed to one or more men, rather than a booty call where there is no pretense of exclusivity – but the social (not to mention legal assurance) efforts being made to ‘normalize’ what amounts to her cuckoldry of that ‘primary’ partner is reinforced because it seemingly serves as some kind of new-age feminine-primary family unit. And after all, he too is ostensibly free to exercise his sexual strategy in this arrangement. A win-win, right?

In the case where the ‘primary’ partner is the woman and the high SMV man leaves her no choice but to adopt his sexual strategy as the dominant one in the relationship, that ‘open relationship’ is considered dysfunctional and socially frowned upon. He’s a cad or a philanderer at best, and an abusive self-absorbed inconsiderate monster at worst. Reverse the sexes in today’s cartoon and imagine what the feminine-primary social response might be.

Force Fitting Sexual Strategies

What we’re observing in a modern interpretation of ‘poly’ or ‘open relationships’ is a conflict between the normalization of unilateral control of sexual strategy within a monogamous relationship context. I know that sounds like a mouthful but consider…

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

No doubt many Blue and Purple Pill readers will (in the interests of “equality”) remind us that there was a time when it was socially expected of (high socio-economic status) men to “keep” a mistress (or use prostitutes) as well as a wife, or even have many wives. All socio-economic Apex Fallacies aside, this being an outlier rather than a norm, those arrangements still put that man into a position of maintaining support for both (all) women in order to satisfy his sexual appetites as well as the relative wellbeing of them.

In the modern instance where western(ized) women are a protected class in a feminine-primary social order, the priority of sexual strategy changes hands. I cover this exchange in the Adaptation series of posts, but to paraphrase, Free Love, open relationships or now, ‘poly’, has really become an increasingly acceptable methodology for women to optimize both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy while still enjoying a semblance of the security that old order monogamy provides for women’s emotional needs.

Now lets review The Cardinal Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

In an economic state where women are less financially dependent on (or autonomous from) men, the Alpha Fucks aspect of Hypergamy will take priority. That’s not to say the Beta comfort and rapport appeal becomes worthless as an emotional investment, but it’s less likely for a woman to need to prioritize that aspect while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect. Beta comfort and security have a value, but that value requires less urgency than pursing Alpha sexual experience (functional breeding opportunities).

Consider the poor Beta symp in the cartoon. That caricature is of a Beta conditioned man struggling with the Old Set of Books, with the old order ruleset expectations from a woman who will never recognize them because she’s never needed to. It’s his investment in her, his necessitousness, his optionlessness and his inability to see it’s the source of his frustration and his anxiety. He needs her, expects more from her, than she needs him.

The lie inherent in the humor of the cartoon is that women possess the capacity to compartmentalize their emotional investments. The Medium is the Message; women can only compartmentalize their feelings for men they don’t see as Hypergamously optimal men (i.e. Alpha, higher than their own SMV men). For men who embody that optimization, women simply cannot afford to feel anything more than submission (a submission to a dominant man they innately desire) to him and are thus unable to consider anything like compartmentalizing their emotions for him.

And from Schedules of Mating:

For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she’s able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring’s survival with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

‘Open’ relationships, and the social narrative reinforcement of the concept, are one such adaptation to facilitate this methodology.

All of this may seem a bit pervasive coming from the guy who advises men to spin plates and date non-exclusively for as long as it takes (if ever) to attain the depth of experience to become a relatively good judge of women’s innate nature, and then if he so chooses, decide how best to pair and parent with her.

The difference in this approach is characteristic of the differences in men and women’s sexual strategies. In Plate Theory, while there is an above board implication of non-exclusivity, there is never an implication that a woman is (or should be) more than a non-exclusive dating opportunity. There should never be any pretense of there being an established, invested relationship as we see in the ‘poly’ concept of women.

In fact this is the primary distinction in non-exclusivity; who’s Frame is the predominant one? In a woman’s ‘poly’ Frame there is a retainership implied in what she believes should be an accepted non-exclusivity.

Ask yourself this, why would a man persist in an ‘open’ relationship? What unique advantages does he get in this arrangement that he couldn’t by simply staying single, practicing Game and spinning plates? Then ask yourself what unique benefits does a woman receive from the same ‘polyamorous’ arrangement?

When you’re contemplating this, try to divorce yourself from the emotional investments and focus on cold hard evolved Hypergamy and how it would function for either sex in that arrangement. Keep in mind that as far as feminized society is concerned, and for all of the triumphalism of independent women, the onus of committed relationship responsibility still defines the worth of a man.

Beta “Manhood”

From MoodyPrism had an interesting observation about the social acceptance of cuckoldry:

I’ve seen men make the mistake of mentioning that they would never raise another man’s child on FaceBook. Shit storms ensued. The usual shaming tactics were trotted out such as manning up. Interestingly enough I’ve heard a woman (on one of those absolutely dreadful day time talk shows such as the View) say that a woman in a relationship with a man with his own kids was a fool for wasting her time on his kids instead of hers. The framework for open cuckoldry is already there, we just need to see the push that makes it completely socially acceptable.

Open Cuckoldry is already in its developmental stage in a social respect. When you consider the Sandbergian plan for Open Hypergamy, the logical implication of this is what’s described here – prioritizing the sexual selection and Hypergamous optimization of women on a societal level while maximally restricting (via social shaming and disapproval) the sexual strategies that would ever serve male interests,…so long as that male is anything less than an optimal Alpha.

Open Cuckoldry has many euphemisms now, but in the Red Pill aware perspective it’s just a matter of time until the social plan of prioritized Hypergamy and outright cuckoldry becomes a social norm.

TuffLuv also presented me with a related question in the last comment thread:

A little too black and white on this stuff Rollo. Sure cuckoldry, as you call it is becoming the norm.. the euphemism being “mixed family”. But I see the majority of instances not being a chick who had the child of some alpha bad boy, or even alpha good boy.. I just see fickle chicks who dumped the baby daddy cuz she either found something better or went looking for something better. The poor dad is just an every day average guy who got his heart broken by the bitch.

So, ponder if you will, if there is a difference between a man raising another man’s child(ren) where the bio father is less alpha (possibly by far) than the new suitor, and a beta man raising the child of one of the woman’s former studs.. I think in the real world you find the former far more than the latter, except in cases where the married or committed woman actually went out and cheated and got pregnant with another man’s child. Maybe that happens a lot but that is not *open* cuckoldry.. That’s classic cuckoldry, and perhaps the only thing that should be called cuckoldry.

I think there should be another designation for the former case. It’s still a bit shameful, but not nearly as much as the latter, eh?

Definitely something to consider, but this situation also implies a change in conditions or context with regard to the woman doing the cuckolding. The fundamentals don’t change – that woman may have bred with a less than optimal man, but the Hypergamous sexual selection impulse still drives her to seek out the Alpha fucks aspect of Hypergamy. She’s Making Up for Missing Out and still she has the provisioning and support she needs in order to pursue the opposite side of the Hypergamous equation she missed out on courtesy of the Beta father.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scribblerg
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@Sun – If you project higher value (more IOIs are evidence of this) you have to live up to that value by making them qualify to you more. More negging, teasing, paying attention to her friends, all activate the higher value vibe. I also see you focusing on your appearance more as a sign of increasing self esteem. I upgraded my casual wardrobe this year too.

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@Emily

Not that I’m afraid that sexbots will replace me one day

You have a shit attitude and you won’t put out. You’re utterly worthless to men. It’s inevitable they’ll replace you. Women as a whole is up to your sisters that aren’t as hopelessly lost as you yet.

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@RT-reading a book called the road to emotional maturity by D Abrahamsen. With your background in psychology, have you read this and what’s your opinion? You may find ch 9 particularly interesting, and a possible source for future articles.
Stay sharp

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@scribblerg

Yeah, that’s the lack of playfulness I’m referring to. I come across as too serious. If your teasing isn’t playful, you’re just written off as bitter.

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@bob Holy shit man, you’ve been through the grinder. Thanks for putting it out there, this is the kinda thing that usually goes unsaid. I haven’t been through anything like as much as you. But I had one or two things back when that I just shut up about for a long time, and when I finally talked about it it was like pulling teeth. Could hardly get the words out. So I know a bit what an effort it can be. Incidentally the one I talked to was Glenn (ScribblerG), if ya want to talk to a guy you… Read more »

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@Sun – I’ve observed that I play the “qualify with me bitch” game with late 30s women reflexively. It’s because I have no doubt they are wrecked and useless as anything but cum dumpsters for the short term, and even at that, are so much less attractive the say Giselle, the 20 yr old I’ve been gaming at the local cafe that I get I’m the prize for them.

Maybe you should try gaming some of those types to practice making them qualify for you?

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As for women having no value other than sex, I don’t see it that way. I have two sisters who understand how to be good women to me and for whom I’m their dominant, supportive brother. I also find some women very interesting to talk to, but sadly they are not common. With respect to intelligence, most women are of two varieties: – Like Emily, having accessed a bit of knowledge they then assume that nobody else has read a few books, lol. She can get back to me when she passes 1.000 books, she’ll at least be in my… Read more »

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@Emily,

How did your boyfriend reacted when you told him ” You were sexually active ” in high school?

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Oh, look at this, I found video of Emily interviewing R. Kelly…
https://s.embed.live.huffingtonpost.com/HPLEmbedPlayer/?segmentId=567470325a743c56430011fe&autoPlay=false

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I love Emily’s statement about her BF not really using his computer that much, lol. You know when Emily isn’t around he’s using Chrome in incognito mode and thrashing himself to Gagaholics. I just hope he doesn’t find that amateur vid of Emily choking on the HS quarterback’s junk…That will set him back a bit.

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@Emily: You had the epiphany: “. . . you guys essentially only deal with us because of sex.”
.
Don’t take it personally—man the tool maker has no need of a “helpmeet” and that’s just fine. Contemporary women are so caught up in “the problem with no name” they have nothing of value to offer beyond an ONS.

bob bitchin
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@sun, forge n scribblerg: thanks for the comments and support. It means a lot to me. I have been through a lot bit I view.it as I’m down but not out. Like a boxer who’s been knocked down, I get back up before the ref finishes the count and get back in the fight. Sometimes I feel like a punch-drunk boxer who just wants to survive the current round, can’t remember what f$cking round it is, and just hopes to hell he can finish the fight. In that sense it feels like I’m just trying to keep from drowning. In… Read more »

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@Bob – This. “The weird thing is that I function well in high stress intense situations then can be paralyzed by day to day shit. ” I can relate. I’m great in a crisis, and used to more like you said. What you describe is anxiety, but the kind that is paralyzing and that often comes from PTSD, Bob. Again, I don’t know what you’ve done in terms of help but these days there are real treatments for PTSD. But let me reiterate – it’s not wise for amateurs to do web diagnoses, so I could be way off too.… Read more »

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I figure this might get you guys in the holiday spirit. Women riding a Sybian sex machine while singing Silent Night. And for those who don’t know what one looks like (cuz you can’t see it in the vid) here’s a pic.
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/buyinprivate/the-sybian-vibrator-2.jpg

@Emily, please tell us, where on earth would we get the idea that women are a bit out of hand today? Where are the guys doing similar things on YouTube? Could it be that women perhaps have lost their fucking minds?
Merry Christmas, you goddamn snowflake. Aren’t you proud of your sisters? Aren’t they just so impressive?

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPfnJYDnI5k&w=560&h=315%5D

Anonymous Reader
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Rollo, you missed this one in “lies women tell their husbands”

http://thestir.cafemom.com/love_sex/187800/lies_women_had_absolutely/135406/my_number/2

Emily, is that you? I’m sure you’d tell your priest….

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And then there is this: HuffPo classic – Why Women Leave Men that They Love – and guess what guys? It’s all men’s fault. Male therapist shows us how we are failing women.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/justice-schanfarber/why-women-leave-men-they-_b_8511584.html?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_776709&ncid=txtlnkusaolp00001380

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In case this site gets banned
https://www.hidemyass.com/
VNI may help get access.
Been away for two days missed about 293 comments
Getting away from buffers is hard work.
This place has done so much for me.

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Holy Shit.

Well I’ll be damned. I found some doppelgangers for SJF and ScribblerG–doesn’t take much to figure who’s who–Henry Rollins vs. Stephen Colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sooRA4IcO0s

kfg
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“A vagina is a like a coupon-book for alcohol”

Now I want to see He Never Died.

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@SJB I don’t get it.. I mean, I find men frustrating sometimes too. But would I want them to be replaced with robots? Of course not. The perfect man or woman has to have faults, or else they won’t even be human. I love the dynamic between males and females, how we are so different. Besides, have none of you guys ever loved anyone? ever been loved? Can a robot really love you? Or is that just not important at all? Would you not mind if your mother, rather than being a loving human, would have been a robot? I… Read more »

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@Emily- a woman is free to do as she pleases, but how other people react to that is what they are equally free to do. If you have read enough of these types of blogs, then you know men will be looking at the count as an indicator of hypergameous tendancies, self-esteem, and stability in marriage. The count summarizes a lot of characteristics.

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@Pinelero
I agree actually! smile In both men and women, the number gives away certain characteristics.
But.. people can change. If a girl had a high number before 16, but just 1 since then, you can’t really say your marriage w her will be unstable.

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” . . . if he’s gonna judge then he aint worth it.”

You’re just being silly, sweetums. There isn’t any reason I love you. Rest assured that to me you have never been and will never be anything other than a completely fungible object with nothing special about you. You could be replaced by any random woman off the street.

So stop worrying your pretty little head about “why I love you” and go back to sleep.

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@ Emily

If a girl had a high number before 16, but just 1 since then, you can’t really say your marriage w her will be unstable.

The question is: Can she mateguard herself?

Does she make herself available to ex’s? Does she have friends who are on the cock carousel? Does she make herself available on facebook? Does she go out clubbing and drinking heavily? Does she repel advances from bosses and peers in the workplace?

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“But.. people can change. If a girl had a high number before 16, but just 1 since then, you can’t really say your marriage w her will be unstable.”

That seems very specific.

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I’d say if a girl has a high number before 16 that actually says a lot about her. And nothing that bodes well for a future with her.

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@ bob the bitch

You think you know something about autism, but you don’t. You think you can poison the well, but you’re such a small, emotionally-damaged man. Not particularly bright, either.

Stay away from my territory. I protect it. You don’t want to get in my sights.

theasdgamer
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Scribbler is someone who can be a decent mentor if you are willing to submit to him. He is so emotionally insecure that he can’t handle peers or having a mentor himself. Scribbler also puts a lot of stock in pointy heads, including those of the psychobabble persuasion, despite mountains of evidence that those who have found TRP are waaay ahead of psychobabblers. Scribbler won’t listen to anyone about dealing with alienated family members, even when someone has managed to achieve reconciliation. It’s because of his insecurity. Scribbler also has trouble digesting history, lol. He thinks that Hitler was a… Read more »

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As far as my autism goes, it really is only a problem for me in social settings like clubs and parties, and only has a minor impact even there. The shrink who diagnosed me with autism told me that my high intelligence would be more of a problem socially than my autism. I already knew that, lol. That’s what shows up here, not my autism. So, YaReally, scribbler, bob, etc. don’t know fuck about autism or my issues. Pay attention to YaReally on gaming women, scribbler if you have a drinking problem, and to bob if you need to hear… Read more »

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@ Liz

Girl, you really roasted poor Emily, lol.

Dutchman
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@Emily has your boyfriend boinked a lot of chicks, or is he a real virgin to match your born again virginhood?

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@Emily: I know you don’t get it despite the reference; to be explicit: Adam’s first mistake was not silence in the face of the saraph but in being discontent in the solitude of dominus. For that sin God made woman. The sons of Adam have been making machines to obviate the conditions of the subsequent curse.

C.f. Rollo’s “Mental point of origin”

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@Emily – Perhaps you could do some research on the entire idea of “Romance” and marrying for love – then you wouldn’t sound like such a fucking moron, yes? Do you know where this idea even emanates from? Do you know how and when this adoration of romantic love gets systematized and programmed into Western culture? My guess is that you don’t have the foggiest fucking idea, you just assume it as a giveb. It is not. Chivalry, courtly love and romantic all gave rise to the version of “love” that you babble about so glibly about 800 years ago.… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ SJF Scribbler helped you to figure out that you needed to stop drinking so much. You feel that you owe him for that. So you give him allegiance. He’s your lord and you’re his vassal. I write useful and helpful comments here from time to time. Scribbler encourages other men to scroll past my comments which might help them. Because of his insecurity and his subsequent hatred of me, Scribbler is actively trying to hurt other men by denying them help, merely to buffer his ego. Your lord is evil. You need to reconsider your allegiance to him. Loading...

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@ SJF

I also don’t need your social proof. This is not a declaration of war, merely a statement of fact. When you say that you give it, you are claiming higher status. I reject that.

My comments show my value and status.

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It is actually a lot more subtly complex than that ASDg.

The way of men. A gang. Friends in that gang. Sub-communication among those friends. E-mail communications. In some endeavors it helps to strive like your life depends on it.

And Heh, props to you for passing my “social proof” shit test, you wary gamer you. Couldn’t sneak one by you.

Dutchman
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I just want to know if he’s heard Emily fart yet.

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@All – Just get that ASD is ego invested in his “standing” in the manosphere and this community. He actually stated plainly at some point that he behaves the way he has towards me to preserve this standing, yet misses how that is his ego at work. And for the record, he completely misrepresents many things about me in his feral, desperate attempt to cut me down (never once said Hitler was a Catholic dictator, although he was most certainly a christian, for example). What I’m glad for now though is that he’s dropped his mask and everyone can see… Read more »

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Can anyone tell me if there’s spoilers in the Storytelling post or comments? I saw the movie title and I stopped reading.

Dutchman
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@Andy

Yes, there are.

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“I’d say if a girl has a high number before 16 that actually says a lot about her. And nothing that bodes well for a future with her.” As I’ve reached out to people to rebuild my social circle, I’ve realized I actually know of more “good” marriages than I was aware of. They all have 3 things in common as far as I can tell: 1. The man is a badass in whatever it is he chose as a mission or occupation. 2. The women seem conservative and my guess is they have had a low number of sex… Read more »

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@ SJF Still playing dominance games? lol I’ve learned that I need to calibrate men more carefully as well. I’ve become aware that men in social settings often consider me a threat, which I’ve never experienced before. So, it behooves me to calibrate men as well. I tend towards relationship avoidance, so that works against bonding closely with other men. I have had a few close friends, but most of my male relationships were acquaintances or buddies with the same hobby. Yeah, my close friends were both smart and popular with women. I don’t need to provide commentary on Rollo’s… Read more »

theasdgamer
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IFIYGD, scribbler, lol

Andy
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@Dutchman

Thx.

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@Cave – It’s taken me a while to come to see things the way you described above. Indeed, the marriages I see that work have similar characteristics. I guess I’m left wondering if there is any path possible for an older guy like me to have that kind of thing? While I’m “back on mission”, marrying some young thing and starting over seems unfair and close to impossible. If we had kids, what, I’d be 70 with a 15 yr old as the oldest if i met someone, married them and had a kid as soon as possible, starting the… Read more »

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“I’ve realized I actually know of more “good” marriages than I was aware of.”

@Cave

Curious. Do you know of any “good” marriages from the baby boomer generation? I know quite a few of them and NONE of them seem truly happy. Either divorced or just staying together because it would be too painful to split. I don’t know if it’s something with that generation, or the length of the marriage, or I’m unlucky, or what.

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Emily
My bf hardly uses the net or his computer. Mostly just browses a comedy website every now and then, but that’s about it.

Sure, dearie, you bet. This is the sucker you used to sex up, that you now are cock teasing into the land of blueballs, and you really believe this?

Heh. When’s the wedding set for, again? Oh, right, “Daddy” wouldn’t approve.

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“@Cave – It’s taken me a while to come to see things the way you described above. Indeed, the marriages I see that work have similar characteristics.” I would add that none of them are under the age of 30 NOW, although they married in late teens or early 20’s. Guys under 30 today are truly fucked when it comes to LTR’s I think. As for your age and getting an LTR? I have no idea. I know a guy that married a chick that was 42 at the time. She had been married from the ages of 18 to… Read more »

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Andy,

Like generations cover so many years, it’s hard to know. Like I’m a millennial at 34 years old, like so is a 16 year old. (Like lol, I can’t even bro)

The older boomers though? Define happy. The ones I know are just in a routine. Are they unhappy? The ones I know aren’t. Boring for sure…

kobayashii1681
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@Rollo: “Oh, and lets not forget this great confessional list, courtesy of ‘Quality Women’” Exactly!! I have been seeing a lot of brothers comment about a woman “being quality” of late, even on reddit/RedPill…I think men need to be careful touting this kind of view point, I think it reeks of pedestalization and potential for regressing back into the BP morass that is modern day relationships/marriage. Maybe you should do a post about what a kind of woman an RP man, or real man should have, or maybe what qualities he should expect her to have. I dunno, just a… Read more »

SJF
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@theasdgamer December 22nd, 2015 at 10:25 am A surprising realization has come to me in the last 2 1/2 years (parallel to my pursuit of red pill awareness and game in order to have Real Power). That was: Male relationships among “normal” males matter and allow for better relationships with females. This was a by-product of my journey. Good men worth having as friends don’t come along very often (nor do good woman worth having relations with). Prior to five years ago, I saw no value in male relationships. Now I see value. (I never had any good ones before,… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Emily: “I’d honestly love if the manosphere would actually focus on helping men in relationships and self-improvement.” Haha! Translates into, “Blah!Blah! Make men better for us….blah!blah! they should improve to be what we want them to be.” As usual, women thinking they know what’s best for men or relationships…the crisis of youth, or is pre-wall hamsternomics…or both! “I mean, there isn’t really anything constructive in fucking a girl for one night and never meeting her again, but figuring out strategies to do that constantly is 50% of what the manosphere is about.” What the fuck do you know about fucking… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Andy: “You have a serious Madonna-whore complex.”

Yes she does…

kobayashii1681
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@Sun: “Overall I’d say there’s very slight progress, but progress nevertheless.”

I’ll drink to that.

kobayashii1681
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“you guys essentially only deal with us because of sex. Nothing else is important to men, there is nothing else about females that you like.”

This chic is just thick! ‘Stupid’ would be too nice a way to describe her.

For all the time you spend on the net “contributing to blogs” the minimum one would expect would be for you to avoid touting dimwitted shit like this…but who are we kidding.

You time would be best spent on your knees…fellating your boyfriend.

Andy
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“Glenn and I had engaged in a way-of-men-is-the-way-of-a-gang relationship offline from here in the comments section ( for nearly 6 months). A real “honor among men” type of stand-up-and-be-better kind of thing.”

lol, I wish I could meet you IRL.

SJF
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“I wish I could meet you IRL.”

Andy, I would bore you to tears in real life. I like to do mundane things well.
Like stay married, raise kids well, be monogamous for 27 years, engage in serial hobbies……..

kobayashii1681
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“I love the dynamic between males and females, how we are so different. Besides, have none of you guys ever loved anyone? ever been loved? Can a robot really love you? Or is that just not important at all? Would you not mind if your mother, rather than being a loving human, would have been a robot? I can’t even..”

http://24.media.tumblr.com/9392e0a1a8778bfc6220aaf150cbbed0/tumblr_mr4w8odYPT1s6uduro1_400.gif

Like clockwork…

“But we mostly agree that our SO should know the truth. After all, if he’s gonna judge then he aint worth it.”

http://funny-pics-fun.com/wp-content/uploads/Funny-Laughing-Face-Contagious-Laughter-13.jpg

Andy
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Hehe, maybe. You’re just plain weird. I like weird.

theasdgamer
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@ scribbler About time you drew a little blood. You’ve been swinging your toy sword long enough at me. You remind me of my annoying kid brother who still likes to play dominance games. He’s pretty good at them. My bro is quite subtle and tries to slide them by me like SJF does. He’s both obnoxious and fun. Now just claim victory and put your toy sword away. @ SJF I know that you’ve enjoyed watching all the dominance games. Not usually something I pay much attention to. See, if I defend myself against scribbler’s attacks, he gets the… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Andy – The marriages I was thinking of that i know well are all couples 40 years or older. I do see younger marriages, but don’t know them so well so it’s hard to say. My point was that the formula Cave laid out makes sense. Low N, conservative values, rejects the script, enjoys acting like a woman and a man with a mission who is the major breadwinner/provider. I’m not saying I can “prove it” I’m just being straight about how I see things now. I do think that being cynical is soul death, in all things. I am… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Like stay married, raise kids well, be monogamous for 27 years, engage in serial hobbies……..

…performing magic Trix…collecting Lucky Charms

Andy
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“I’ve met Colbert and he’s a pussy in real life too…”

Yeah he was a real pussy shitting all over Bush to his face at that White House correspondence dinner. Dude has some balls.

CaveClown
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The marriages I see that work, the guy is def a beta…but not a “nice guy” or pushover. Does that make sense?

As an aside, I’ve decided I don’t give a flying fuck if I am an alpha or beta.

I don’t kiss anyone’s ass, that’s good enough for me.

“Better than yesterday” is all I care about.

Men often express jealousy towards me for financial accomplishments, my confidence, and intelligence. (No brag)

Limited female admiration, but whatever.

scribblerg
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@Andy – So you’ve met Colbert too? And sure, taking politically correct cheap shots, playing along with the feminized values of the left is quite masculine, lol. But please, let’s just leave it there – I’ve not once engaged with your productively and have concluded there is no point attempting to do so. Whether it’s me or you is irrelevant, I just know it’s a waste of time for me as I get nothing out of our exchanges. Zip. Nunca. Nada. Have a nice life…

Andy
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Andy
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” Zip. Nunca. Nada. Have a nice life…”

You’re ugly.

scribblerg
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@Rollo – Wow, what a comment to Emily. You summarized so many powerful ideas that I’m only now really able to grasp and internalize. It makes me realize how completely our society is soaked in the FI and all it entails. One of the things that is hitting me lately is how much less women need to “work” to have the culture play to their natures and desires. A man who embraces his masculinity today is beating his way through waves and headwinds and a foul tide, going uphill both ways nonstop. It’s corrosive and stressful and emotionally draining. I… Read more »

SJF
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“What you seem to not be able to distinguish is when a man is acting dishonorably and how I deal with that. I do not tolerate men acting dishonorably towards me or being excessively denigrating. ” I do get this honor among men thing. I respect what you are doing when you are being dishonored. I do see it even before you point it out. My Scorecard: Henry Rollins: hororable because he won’t allow himself to be dishonored– in general in life (he was promoting his movie and had to take Colbert’s alleged humor) TheAsd gamer: Disrespect and dishonor pointed… Read more »

CaveClown
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“A man who embraces his masculinity today is beating his way through waves and headwinds and a foul tide, going uphill both ways nonstop. It’s corrosive and stressful and emotionally draining.” That’s certainly how they would like us to feel… (not discounting your thoughts or feelings man, just starting to realize myself that these cynical feelings I have are for what? Because society says I should be less of a man? Because society says this is how I should feel or act? Talk about shit test! Truly & honestly not giving one flying fuck what anyone thinks of me has… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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SJF
Male relationships among “normal” males matter and allow for better relationships with females.

And what do women often strive to do in any LTR, marriage or even STR? Yep, make a man give up his male friends. Shit test? Clearly…and if a man does what the dearie asks, he beta-izes himself immediately.

“Emily” has a Madonna-whore complex for a reason, methinks…

scribblerg
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@SJF – Ah. I get it. I also think it’s important to be able to laugh at oneself. We are all ridiculous in our own ways, me included and especially. But I am who I am. Cave – One can frame it as a society-wide shit test, but it’s just as true that it’s society-wide antagonism to masculinity, men, boys and fathers non-stop. To claim to be unaffected by that seems to me to be a bit much. Handling it with equanimity, indeed and also powerfully, that’s where I’m getting to. But to not acknowledge the adversity such a man… Read more »

CaveClown
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“One can frame it as a society-wide shit test, but it’s just as true that it’s society-wide antagonism to masculinity, men, boys and fathers non-stop. To claim to be unaffected by that seems to me to be a bit much. Handling it with equanimity, indeed and also powerfully, that’s where I’m getting to. But to not acknowledge the adversity such a man faces in the mainstream culture? That’s denial to me.”

Oh, I’m not claiming to be unaffected. Just trying to scale back my own cynicism.

kfg
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@Scribbler: “15 years previous?”

You couldn’t fire salesmen for anything short of actual criminal activity. If they had the numbers they were more secure in their positions than the CEO.

Forge the Sky
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Cosign what Cave says about marriages that work. In fact I think I’ve written something pretty similar in the past.

My parents are boomers (though just barely) and they have a great relationship. Not sure the generation matters much. They were both quite attractive, very attracted to each other, (I believe) low n’s, conservative values/parents, my mother had many children early, and my father just crushed it in his career and hasn’t stopped.

So that works. Why doesn’t everyone just do that? wink

Anonymous Reader
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A man who embraces his masculinity today is beating his way through waves and headwinds and a foul tide, going uphill both ways nonstop. It’s corrosive and stressful and emotionally draining.

Yes. It is, whether a man is striving to better himself personally, professionally, in pickup, in STR, in LTR, in leading a family, it is like being Sisyphus.

I need to get a copy of The 13th Warrior, an old ‘Nam Marine reco’d it to me as “motivational” and I need motivation sometimes, especially in winter.

Forge the Sky
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Cave, the RP doesn’t compel cynicism. And AWALT means that all women are running on basically the same programming, not that they’ll all act upon the darker aspects of that programming with utter abandon.

Like, men are turned on by the sight of a hot woman. Given ample opportunity many of them would bang her. AMALT. But it’s not destiny.

kfg
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“I need to get a copy of The 13th Warrior . . .” The critics hated it. While it’s no great work of art (although based on one), it’s one of the best men’s movies made in the past 30 years or so, and particularly apropos to the times, because it’s a coming of age story in which the protagonist is already a grown man who was never forced to become a man. ” Merciful Father, I have squandered my days with plans of many things. This was not among them. But at this moment, I beg only to live… Read more »

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Scribbler
15 years previous

As many have pointed out, the mindset of Game is not just for pickup in bars. It is useful, even necessary, in an increasingly feminized world.

CaveClown
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“Why doesn’t everyone just do that?”

Attempting exactly that. (except the being attractive part, lol)

“Cave, the RP doesn’t compel cynicism.”

True.

Blaximus
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Rollo said.. ” You want a better slave, one that’s ignorant of the female nature and the consequences that ignorance represents, but one who also Just Gets It and satisfies your need for amused mastery and ‘just gets women’ so well he never needed to be made aware of their nature. This is precisely why you will tire of your present BF. You’ll get to a point where you’ll question his assertiveness and Alpha awareness by allowing you to control his desires. If a man is willing to sublimate the most powerful impulse he has in order to acquiesce to… Read more »

Striver
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So in a LTR, does picking a “quality” woman matter more than the man’s actions? I would lean towards yes, but want thoughts.

In other words, don’t marry a woman with 7-8 LTRs under her belt and think you can “game” or “alpha” her into compliance. Pick a better woman. I’m a stats guy, so I like to go with percentages rather than thinking I’ll buck the odds.

But, thoughts?

kfg
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kfg
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No woman under 30 has had 7-8 LTRs. She hasn’t been alive long enough yet.

redlight
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redlight
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man’s actions matter more, see every beta marriage

Blaximus
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Striver, Hmmmm. As a rule, chicks with 7 or 8 LTR’s under their belts won’t make good marriage material. I don’t subscribe to a General Descriptor of ” Quality ” woman. Someone upstream mentioned that it is like a form of pedestalization, and I tend to concur. Now, could a man ” Alpha ” a woman with so many LTR’s to her credit/discredit? The answer is Yes. I say this because there is a chance that the woman has been dealing exclusively with Beta males. Hence the numerous number of LTR’s. BUT, if the female in question is not a… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Striver

Your mindset is by far the most important factor. If you don’t have that straight you don’t even know what ‘quality’ MEANS to you. And you sure as hell ain’t gonna get it by accident.

If you find a ‘quality girl’ and get into a relationship with her, that relationship will always be inflected by your mindset – what you allow, what you encourage. Even if she’s not dysfunctional you will MAKE her dysfunctional.

These things all work together.

That said, don’t go wifing crazy chicks obviously lol.

Blaximus
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@Cave, ” (not discounting your thoughts or feelings man, just starting to realize myself that these cynical feelings I have are for what? Because society says I should be less of a man? Because society says this is how I should feel or act? Talk about shit test! Truly & honestly not giving one flying fuck what anyone thinks of me has helped SO MUCH. It’s hard, I’m sure as hell not there yet, but working on it) (of course IDGAF doesn’t mean being a socially retarded asshole either)” I have always advocated that men trying to better themselves have… Read more »

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Striver So in a LTR, does picking a “quality” woman matter more than the man’s actions? All women require some degree of leadership, of “alpha”. The question before any man is twofold: “How much alpha does this woman need, and am I willing to provide it?” Any man who’s been sufficiently Betaized will have a hard time providing any alpha at all, take that as a given, the starting point for too many of us. Beyond that, as a man improves himself and ups his Game, the level of alpha he’s got increases, it takes less effort to maintain a… Read more »

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kfg The critics hated it. Like anyone should care… Really. Years ago I realized that Siskel and Egbert were political whores much more than actual film critics. While it’s no great work of art (although based on one), it’s one of the best men’s movies made in the past 30 years or so, and particularly apropos to the times, because it’s a coming of age story in which the protagonist is already a grown man who was never forced to become a man. That’s partly what the old ‘Nam Marine meant, probably, although he’s a man of fewer words; “You… Read more »

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“Emily”
Anonymous, that site is bs. There is actually a pretty well agreed algorithm among women for how to adjust our number depending on who’s asking.

My goodness, dearie, you seem wise beyond your years today…

But we mostly agree that our SO should know the truth. After all, if he’s gonna judge then he aint worth it.

LOL @ your Female Imperative, dearie. The more I understand women the less likely I am to do two things: judge them, and believe anything they say.

Anonymous Reader
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Forge If you find a ‘quality girl’ and get into a relationship with her, that relationship will always be inflected by your mindset – what you allow, what you encourage. Even if she’s not dysfunctional you will MAKE her dysfunctional. A year or more ago I would have discounted this, insisting that Women Have Agency, So There. Now that I’m getting more comfortable with the fact that women are indeed more like water, and thus tend to take the shape of what they are poured into…yeah, I’ll cosign that. A man who allows life (births, deaths, jobs, whatever) to Betaize… Read more »

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Blaximus
We can be ” In ” society without being ” Of ” society.

Thread winner.

Blaximus
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” But we mostly agree that our SO should know the truth. After all, if he’s gonna judge then he aint worth it.”

http://0.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/32/75/6eb25e48da1727d86c6f81bf2f5be0d5.jpg

Blaximus
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Anonymous Reader ,

Thanks man. That’s something I’m passionate about re: men trying to figure things/life out. Society is actually a large part of the problem(s). It’s been hijacked.

CaveClown
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I have an HB4 feminist friend that is madly in love with me.

She tells the guys she dates that she has been with 70+ men in her 38 years.

Calls them shallow when they go dark on her…

Only saw one guy try to stick around.

She dumped him, lol.

Women do it to themselves. 70+ dicks, are you kidding me? And you want a dude with any sort of self respect to LTR you?

Ruined for life.

Blaximus
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Emily… ” I love the dynamic between males and females, how we are so different. ” Uhhh, I dunno. I guess we are exactly the same. Equal. ” Besides, have none of you guys ever loved anyone? ever been loved? Can a robot really love you? Or is that just not important at all?” I love. I am loved. I’ve learned to never accept any form of supposed conditional love. It’s unhealthy to jump through flaming hoops for other people. Love is a very natural and uncomplicated thing. Any ” rules ” in a loving relationship automatically render that relationship… Read more »

theasdgamer
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scribbler mindfucked the men here. Gratz, scribbler. Sucks to be weak-minded.

Sun Wukong
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Any time Emily posts, all I hear is:

Sun Wukong
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@theasdgamer

scribbler mindfucked the men here.

Yeah. The problem couldn’t be you. Must be the rest of us.

I think your case of cranial-rectal inversion is getting bad enough that you might want to seek medical attention.

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