Open Cuckoldry

forever

During the Q&A section of the Man in Demand talk I gave back in September I was asked about where I believed the social dynamic of Open Hypergamy would lead. In specific the idea was proposed, and I agree, that the logical next step for a social order founded on feminine Hypergamy and one that prioritizes the female sexual strategy as preeminent would lead to a state of openly accepted cuckoldry.

Although I can’t say it’s an accepted social dynamic as yet, there are many social indicators that are revealing this push towards a normalized cuckoldry. I’ll explore these for a bit in this essay, but for now these indicators are about a move away from conventional monogamy in the hopes that a ‘soft cuckoldry’ might be a precursor to instituting a more accepted open cuckoldry.

I think it’s also important to keep in mind a couple of primary principles about this shift. First is the fact that, initially, an openly accepted state of feminine-controlled cuckoldry will never be called ‘cuckoldry’ proper. If we use the example of a socially accepted (if not celebrated) open Hypergamy as a model, open cuckoldry will be sold as a more logical, more humane sexual strategy for men and women in light of divorce statistics, romantic boredom and other sexual studies that indicate men and women weren’t evolved for monogamous commitment.

The second is that open cuckoldry is the extension of a unilaterally feminine controlled Hypergamy. That is to say that as Hypergamy becomes more normalized as a social imperative that sexual strategy will extend to optimizing Hypergamy across genders. If that optimization is taken to its logical end it will require men not just to adopt cuckoldry as a norm, but to socially reward them for advocating it among their own sex.

Cuckoldry By Any Other Name

As I said, it wont be called ‘cuckoldry’; the connotations are negative, so a redefining will be made in order to make the practice more socially palatable. The Feminine Imperative wont recruit the very men it needs to perpetuate cuckoldry as their own sexual strategy if the term is derogatory. Thus we’ll get euphemisms for alternative lifestyles, ‘open marriages’ or a “Designer Relationship“:

We live in an era when everything is customizable. Relationships are no exception. Some people will continue to practice their grandparents’ form of monogamy, and others, probably the majority, will be serially exclusive and pair-bonded. Still others will explore some form of non-monogamous expression that encompasses one or more of the facets we’ve discussed or may flow in and out of being exclusive based on what the relationship requires. (We’ve done this ourselves.) Having the ability to customize a relationship means having the freedom to respond to life’s vicissitudes.

The first time I came across the concept of ‘soft polygamy’ I was in a behavioral psychology class exploring the practices of modern marriage and contrasting them with the long term sexual behaviors of men and women. As you might imagine the context of the study focused entirely on the ‘bad behaviors’ of men who essentially transitioned from serial monogamy to serial marriage. The idea was that in the process of moving from one LTR to another men were establishing a soft form of polygamy.

In a social respect, men have far more to lose from serial marriages than do women. The financial liabilities of divorce are well known to the manosphere, but so are the emotional and familial accountabilities. So from a strictly male perspective, serial LTRs are a dicey prospect, but from a female perspective, in a feminine-primary social order, institutionalized Hypergamy and the soft polygamy that results from the Sandbergian sexual strategy, soft cuckoldry becomes pragmatic in optimizing Hypergamy for women.

At this point we should consider the Heartiste maxim about feminism again:

The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality

Institutionalized cuckoldry is the logical means to restricting male sexuality, but we have to consider what function that restriction serves for women. From an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks perspective the plan is simple; restrict that sexuality as women find need for a particular man’s service.

Diamonds and Rust

While I’m reluctant to prognosticate, my guess is that future generations of men will be conditioned to accept their role in this cuckoldry as part of their socialization. The above Forevermark diamond advertisement is one illustration of this. Open Hypergamy and its acceptance has already made its popular debut in mainstream media and advertising, and likewise open cuckoldry is just now finding a social foothold.

It takes the Red Pill Lens to appreciate the efforts as they’re being made by a large society. The Forevermark ad is intended to be funny or cute, but it belies a deeper, more poignant truth about Alpha Widows, Hypergamy and the long term sexual strategy Plan and roles women expect men to play in it.

I was made aware of this ad being circulated from a reader on Twitter and at first thought it was a reworked joke. It is however legit and billboards with this campaign are up in major cities. Without the benefit of a Red Pill Lens I can see how most men would laugh it off or women might giggle sardonically about it, but the the fact remains that a clever copywriter is aware of the sexual dynamics that make it funny.

I pulled the following quote from Deti on one of Dalrock’s more recent post:

“I think what we will continue to see is growing disengagement.”

Yeah, this has been discussed here and elsewhere in the almost 5 years I’ve been around here.

I think that what will happen is that things will continue sliding in the same direction they’re going now, until a critical mass is reached. I don’t know what that critical mass is, what will trigger it, or when it will be reached.

We live in a mostly free society with a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. We have maximum freedom and autonomy right now, with both sexes being free to pursue pretty much whatever they want, however they want to. That is the prime characteristic driving the current circumstance — that, and up to now, there’s been enough money taxed, borrowed and stolen to pay for it.

A growing number of men are not getting as much sex as they want. A growing number of women aren’t getting commitments in the form they want — when they want or from the men they want.

So things are going to keep sliding that way. More and more men will walk away and direct what energies they have left elsewhere — into work, or beer/bros/Xbox/porn, or travel/leisure. (Oddly enough, this might make many of them more attractive to women, since they’re spending less time directing their attentions to women.) More and more men will earn just enough to support themselves, since they don’t plan on marriage, and fatherhood is out of the question. They will lack the skills to improve their lives. They will not get nearly as much sex as they want, but they will learn to live with it — mostly through porn, the occasional hookup, and the even more occasional prostitute. The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.

More and more women will direct their attentions into their work, travel/leisure, and having children without men. (This will definitely make more of them less attractive to men except as on again, off again sex partners.) They will not get the commitments from men they want, but they will learn to live with it. They will complain about it with increasing volume and shrillness, but they’ll learn to live with it.

Until something happens to cause the tides to turn. Again – don’t know what, or when, or how. But something will happen to cause a hard reset. And it will be exquisitely painful for everyone. I don’t want it to happen, nor do I relish it. It’s not something to desire or look forward to because of the pain it will bring. But I do think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime or my kids’ lifetimes. We could easily slide like this for another 50 to 100 years.

I think one consequence of this separation of the genders will include a socially normalized institution of cuckoldry. To take hold it will need to be termed something different, but in effect the process of women conceiving with one man and then expecting another man to parentally invest himself in that child will be a casual expectation of women. With so many men effectively (if not intentionally) going their own way, the idea that any man wouldn’t be expected to serve as a surrogate parent will become commonplace.

Genders divided by feminism or feminine social primacy will need a ‘customized’ form of cuckoldry that allows for the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy to be reconciled with the Beta Bucks side by enlisting different men for either purpose.

The Pink Pill

I want to end here with an essay I read recently on the fallout of the new female form of Viagra:

In an infamous cartoon in The New Yorker in 2001, one woman confides to a friend over drinks: ‘I was on hormone replacement for two years before I realized what I really needed was Steve replacement.’ Medicine has been reluctant to engage the question of just how much monogamy and long-term togetherness affect sexual function and desire, and the ‘Steve’ problem remains an issue that is tacitly acknowledged and yet under-discussed. To return to Julie’s growing pile of self-help titles, the books all promise to return, revive, restore without really getting down to the brass tacks of why desire extinguished in the first place. As Julie notes, the honeymoon grinds to an end, but the issues leading there are complex. In short supply is attention to the way mind and body react to social structures such as popular media, faith and marriage.

To develop drugs to boost libido is like ‘giving antibiotics to pigs because of the shit they’re standing in’

The American psychologist Christopher Ryan argues that the institution of modern marriage – meaning an exclusive couple bound by romantic love – is antithetical to long-term excitement. Ryan is best known for Sex at Dawn (2010), a book authored with his wife Cacilda Jethá, that makes the case that sexual monogamy is deeply at odds with human nature. He is among a growing number of researchers suggesting that the rift between women’s purportedly limitless sexual potential and their dulled actuality might owe to the circumstances of intimacy. Accordingly, the conjugal bed is not only the scene of dwindling desire, but its fundamental cause. The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust. While love angles toward intimacy, desire flourishes across a distance.

The entire article is very insightful if not a bit depressing, but with the Red Pill Lens we can begin to understand the latent purpose behind the message. I’ve gone on record about the pushback against clearing the pink pill for use as being a direct threat to women’s control of their own Hypergamy. The concern, ostensibly, is that a libido stimulating drug might be used to induce a woman into having sex that her otherwise sober sense would prevent; effectively it could be a ‘rape’ drug.

What’s finally being addressed in this article however is what I’ve been saying since I was aware of the drug’s trials – a chemical that induces libido in women removes an element of their control in sexual selection and compromises Hypergamy. I’m not entirely sure the author was aware of the points she was revealing in this, but she succinctly makes the case for both institutionalized cuckoldry (or certainly a ‘customized’ soft polygamy for women) and advocates for women maintaining control of their Hypergamy unclouded by a drug that would remove that control by chemically inducing them into sex that isn’t of their own choosing.

The ‘cure’ to women’s low libido is holistic, not biological. Women’s sexual deficiencies are presumed not to be the result of a ‘broken’ biology, but rather a lack of proper motivation. I should point out that all of this validates all the points I was making about Dread in marriage last month on Biblical Gender Roles – maintaining a condition of proper motivation (i.e. Dread), the holistic cure, is exactly what even femosphere authors are tacitly advocating.

The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust.

Yet now, even when a pharmaceutical solution to the lust problem is made available the ‘cure’ is rejected. Why? Because on a root, limbic level women’s hindbrains know that Hypergamy cannot be optimized with a drug that removes Hypergamous choice. The real solution has never changed and women are now put into a position of having to openly acknowledge that for all of the pretense of “mismatched libidos” or “sex just declines after marriage” social conventions, men’s cuckoldry is the real plan for Hypergamy.

When presented with a pill that will make them sexual, when given a cure to their low sex drives with the men who’ve made lifetime commitments to them, women will still refuse to take it. Hypergamous doubt can’t be quelled with a pill.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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DeNihilist
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Listen, open cuck happens because to hang the fucker from the nearest tree is now looked down upon.

kfg
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kfg
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“It’s not something to desire or look forward to . . .”

. . . but while you may not be interested in war, war is already very interested in you. If you desire peace, prepare for war.

Wild Man
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Hey – the forevermark ad is really funny for another reason …”hey guys buy the diamond so you can be the forever mark! cuckman”

Mr. C
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I have found the work of Frenchwoman, Esther Perel to be quite interesting.

https://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_rethinking_infidelity_a_talk_for_anyone_who_has_ever_loved?language=en

Wild Man
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I sense this whole man/woman thing is changing so fast that we are going to zoom right through the cuck period, into the era of the individual, marked by something akin to what we were talking about some weeks ago with respect to what the male imperative would look like, – unlimited access with no consequences, orgy-style, induced by some sort of new psychic technologies, the seeds of which are already probably in the pipeline, given the techno-wave that is about to crash upon us all. I think the future spells the unfettering of the psychic apparatuses that binds our… Read more »

walawala
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But it’s a choice to be cucked. I was banging a girl in my rotation who started banging another dude. She knew i was banging other girls. But the minute i learned she was….she’s nexted. A plate is a plate…but it’s the idea of having something flaunted at me that was the immediate turn off…. i never flaunted other girls in front of the plates. if they ask i reframe…but the idea of “open cuckholdery” is an acceptance on a guy’s part of something that for me is unacceptable.

Dave
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Why does an open relationship favour women and not men? It’s only cuckoldry if you don’t approve of it. If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.

leothered
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I am black and open cuck is as normal as it gets in the black community because a large amount of black females have kids in their early teens and will very rarely make it to their mid-20s being slightly attractive without getting knocked up at least once. To date seriously in some pockets of the black community is to raise another mans child, I know multiple friends and family members in this situation now.

YaReally
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https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3vpd0h/afbb_codified_into_state_law_new_york_moves_to/ “Apparently there is a new law going into effect in NY at the start of 2016 which caps alimony-eligible earnings at $175,000/year. This means that if you are a guy that makes near or below this amount it’s the same old same old divorce rape for you. Nothing is changed. If she runs off with her co-worker or her high school boyfriend you will be paying her alimony and keeping her in the middle-class lifestyle that she is accustomed to for a very very long time. Usually until both of you are past your romantic prime. But lo and… Read more »

LiveFearless
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Reblogged this on her non-sexual 'friendships' outside of your love and commented:
When you watch television, remember that you are watching a lot of stuff that’s making a future of open cuckoldry normal. Remember, in a decade from now, that you were told it would be this way by Rollo Tomassi. Hope you are paying attention. It matters.

olivermaerk
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http://freedompowerandwealth.com

The TED-Talk was very interesting. A shock for some a wake-up-call for others.

Johnycomelately
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Monique Mulder observed this trend in the Mpimbwe tribe in Tanzania. Basically the fall in comparative economic output of men (relative to women) causes women to seek economic optimisation via multiple partnering. Interestingly economically autonomous women optimised non economic markers (alpha fucks?). Seems like YaReally is an example of an early adopter of this trend, sexual status signalling is trumping economic status signalling. Mulder observed the side effects as increased listlessness among men, more downtime and even lower economic output, while the women actually experienced more work and less downtime. Simply put, cuckholded men have no incentive to maximise work… Read more »

stuttie
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I’m sure all here are familiar with The bachelor/ette TV series.

The fem-media are tripping over themselves to cheerlead this one…

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/books-magazines/magazines/the-bachelorette-runnerup-michael-turnbull-finds-love-with-stunning-single-mum-katrina-vincent/news-story/5f2bd6fcf28fe46767d39c8b1829cb53

GRock
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“We could easily slide like this for another 50 to 100 years.” Barring major catastrophe which would send existing relationships scrambling for tightened security to the “familiar” and less risky, my guess is the slide will go on about that long.

Even a correction based on a major event, having not organically “hit bottom” in totality, would eventually pick up back where it left off until that critical mass is achieved.

With the last half of my life upon me, this is what I’m planning on.. more slide. It’s the best contingency plan basis I foresee.

YaReally
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@Johnycomelately “Seems like YaReally is an example of an early adopter of this trend, sexual status signalling is trumping economic status signalling.” Yup. I’m just going by what I’m seeing out there, anyone can see the trends if they’re infield. Girls aren’t impressed by money anymore, they either have their own money or/and have government money/support to take care of them or/and have an unlimited list of orbiters who will happily fight over who gets to fund them without even requiring sex and fully accepting the BB cuckold role if they need it. That’s the reality of hot <25yo girls… Read more »

GRock
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@walawala : I conduct myself the same. Plates but no acceptance of being cucked. Just this weekend, a new plate I’ve been seeing about 5 weeks had a small Bday celebration at a dive bar I attended. We got rather drunk, and I watched (and told her I was) how she acted as each level of drunkenness leveling up. Mindful of my surroundings, and years of “reading a room” experience from playing in bands kicked in, and I noticed this one dude strangely lingering in the shadows non-chalantly at first, then increasingly pervasive the more drunk my plate and I… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Dave

“If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.”

Yeah, no. For your average blue pill chump to get laid, he has to work his ass off on self improvement and swallow the red pill I concept if not in name. For the average chick to do the same, she has to just stop saying “No”.

Not equal in the least.

Walawala
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GRock Girls are basically interchangeable. One plate is off banging another dude so I just next her. No drama no notice just no more…another plate is on my case about wanting an exclusive relationship…my reaction again is to just not respond. That girl didn’t even wish me a happy birthday. My first case is similar to yours. The ironic thing..girls hate that you may flaunt other women but suddenly get nasty when you tell them off about their acting out. I didn’t and won’t tell my plate why im no longer on the grid for her. What’s the use? Better… Read more »

farmlegend
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My first reaction was that the Forevermark ad represented some clever manosphere humor.

But, holy crap, it’s real. We’re literally moments away from seriously open hypergamy.

YaReally
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@Mr C That was a good fucking talk thanks for linking it. From the talk: “If in the past we divorced because we were UNHAPPY…today we divorce because we could be happIER.” THIS x10000. This is the new mentality in 2015, espeically in women with the Eat Pray Love push. This is why marrying in 2015 is just retarded. Again it was different in the past, because of a ton of factors, but this is how it is in the modern era and guys need to understand and accept that. “I tell my clients if they could bring to their… Read more »

TheLastCoyote
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Re. the quote from Deti, the paragraph that begins, “A growing number of men are not getting as much sex as they want…” and the paragraph after that are both spot on. More and more men are going to see this as a battle they cant’ win. As such, they will make do with distracting themselves somehow with both productive and unproductive pursuits, and they will become increasingly resigned to the occasional lay, be it a hookup or a paid encounter. But I disagree with the part of Deti’s quote where he says this may take 50 or 100 years… Read more »

playdontpay
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I’ve decided to get in touch with my feminine side. I’ve decided to love opportunisticly, I’ve decided to embrace Hypergamy as my mating strategy and solipsism as my mental point of origin. I will ruthlessly upgrade my plates at every opportunity without thought for anyone’s needs but my own. Having discovered that females bring so little to the table in terms of love, support and being a team I have accepted that I stand alone and accept that my happiness is solely my responsibility. I have no choice but to take this path, this games going down like it or… Read more »

IAS
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@Mr. C.:
Esther Perel is Belgian (not French).
She has another earlier TED talk about Desire in LTRs which is also worth a watch

http://www.ted.com/talks/esther_perel_the_secret_to_desire_in_a_long_term_relationship

IAS
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@GRock: Damn man. Wishing you die from the same degenerative disease that your dad died of? Evil is the right word. Damn.

racerxx
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Funny but I just listened to the bonobo monkey section in “The Way of Men”, and the parallels are right on.

Opus
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Very interesting and I see signs of this all the time in my limited circle of acquaintances.

I predict that whatever happens:

1. men will be held to be at fault.
2. marriages of limited duration will be instituted.

We already have limited marriages where the State determine that because two people have lived together for a short while they are de facto married and other state institutions such as requiring marriage for five years to be eligible for citizenship to mail order brides (who then promptly upgrade – if they can).

Andy
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YaReally is bang on about the BB provider strategy being over abundant and lacking in Value. My ex-gf recently moved onto another dude because I pushed her away in terms of commitment. Yet because my verbal game was always on point with her, she always kept coming back. Even now, she’s still unsatisfied with the new guy despite having better provider attributes than I have (Owns a few successful business, has his own place etc.) Not surprisingly, I pushed her further to him by eventually breaking and telling her how I truly felt about her and wanting her back. I… Read more »

benfromtexas
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You guys would be surprised at how many women I grew up with that are married now, who have private messaged me on social media and were pretty much direct about what they wanted.

It’s stunning to be truthful. I live an exiting life, travel, in decent shape, and their husbands are blobs. Some were or are close friends that I holler at when I visit home. Hypergamy doesn’t care. They’re like feral cats in heat.

SJB
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I helped. I wear multiple horns. I stayed because the children were young and managed, I think, to blunt the rampaging vagina a bit.

Now everyone has reached legal adulthood. I’m still here and it sucks; somebody said something like “you can’t fix what you behaved yourself into.” The counter-pressure to a change in behavior is incredible.

Never let yourself be in a position where tolerating being cuckolded is a better option.

YaReally
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@Andy “YaReally is bang on about the BB provider strategy being over abundant and lacking in Value.” The best way I can describe it is that guys focused on lifting, money, suits, cars, etc are putting a lot of time and effort into areas that women no longer value. It’s like investing in stocks for VHS when DVDs have been released and are catching on like wildfire…there was a point where VHS was king and those stocks were worth investing in, but shit changes and you have to adapt your strategy. This wasn’t the case in the past, that these… Read more »

Onder Hassan
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@YaReally You’re spot on mate. I look at things in terms of a pyramid in that Game is the foundation. Have that strengthened and along the way, focus on the other things that most other people think is the only thing that gets the girls. In fact, I purposely avoid telling girls how much money I make and go out of my way to wear normal clothes and drive a shit car, because I want to make sure that this person likes me for me and not because of the things external to me that can be replaced at any… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.”

Yes, it would seem that way, if you have the impression that men and women are equal. I know this may be a hard idea to internalize given the social gestalt of the last 50 years or so, but men and women are not equal and without transhumanist intervention never will be, because they cannot be.

And with transhumanist intervention they will cease to be human and all bets are off.

ace
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Dave

December 7th, 2015 at 2:40 am
“Why does an open relationship favour women and not men? It’s only cuckoldry if you don’t approve of it. If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing”

Incorrect. A cuck is a man whose wife has intercourse with anyone other than himself. With or without his knowledge and/or consent. Your approval doesn’t uncuck you, if anything it solidifies it.

Some even use the term for the partners of non-wives; LTR’s or plates.

Pinelero
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“maintain Hypergamy, learn everything you can about how it works and how to maintain it because giving her ALL the shit she needs (and if you legally tie yourself to her or make it so you can’t just walk away at any point you’ll have to consciously find ways to still create dread in her mind)” New to married RP, but this is spot-on! I have inadvertently dreaded SO, and it works… In my BP days, I would have felt bad and apologized and professed eternal love…etc. Now, I recognize her reactions to something simple like her questioning why I… Read more »

LeeLee
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Honestly I was a bit skeptical when I started reading this, that open cuckoldry is “a thing” or going to be “a thing”, but I see what you’re saying, especially with the way that essay on the pink pill ends. And actually, yes. There is absolutely an ever-strengthening push for men to become more comfortable raising other men’s babies. My husband and I dealt with this recently because we were talking about whether our next child would be adopted or biologically born. We don’t have any sons yet, and my husband’s feeling is that while he could see himself adopting,… Read more »

SJB
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YaReally writes: “Hell why are girls all obsessed with Netflix binging? Because TV and movies are designed to give them the full range of emotions that the guys in their life aren’t giving them.”

This is the true. My wife, daughter, and now granddaughter, are all engaged with (to?) their iPads – streaming tingles. I seem to remember encountering description of that slack-jawed consumption in Fahrenheit 451. Eerie.

The One
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With the invention of male birth control, is it still cuckoldry if no children are involved? It simple becomes fornication over time.

SJB
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Open cuckoldry has been around for a bit; there is no legal ramification against adultery. That is, there are no ramifications for the woman: let a man call her an adulterous whore and see how quickly he is falsely accused.

The One
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When you say most men aren’t getting the amount of sex they want, okay, but throughout history most men didn’t get the amount of money they wanted, lifespan they wanted, etc. Cuckoldry coming from the cuckoo bird who lays eggs in another’s next, I really don’t think this is cuckoldry since no children

SJB
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The One: I’d say it comes down to intention: if a wife intends to have a penis, other than her husband’s, in her vagina, it is cuckoldry.

I.e. we cannot separate copulation from reproduction. Intending to copulate is intending to reproduce.

The One
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@SJB

As a Catholic I agree that copulation shouldn’t be separate from reproduction. However if before one copulated, they reach into the wallet, open the condom package and then put it on the penis, it’s impossible to say “intention to copulate is intending to reproduce”. Rather they have an intention to fulfill their lusts, which is adultery.

BK
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Rollo, possible art to begin one of your articles – recent New Yorker cover of a post-wall mother (and divorced from her lack of ring in the mirror reflection) and her daughter.
http://www.condenaststore.com/-sp/The-New-Yorker-Cover-December-7-2015-Prints_i13994752_.htm

kfg
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kfg
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@The One: “I really don’t think this is cuckoldry since no children”

I really don’t think this is a marriage. Looking at its actual terms, it appears to be nothing more nor less, in all its particulars, than a contract of indenture.

@SJB: “I.e. we cannot separate copulation from reproduction. Intending to copulate is intending to reproduce.”

It’s babies all the way down.

SJB
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The One: I do understand what you have written but would disagree; a man does not put on a condom for any reason other than to prevent insemination of a female. The act of sheathing is subsequent to the intention to copulate and the knowledge that copulation is a reproductive act.

kfg
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kfg
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” . . . they have an intention to fulfill their lusts, which is adultery.”

And in order to do so must inherently assume the risks of reproduction, no matter their intention. You’d almost think that the lust was designed to fulfil and enforce the function of reproduction no matter the self-conscious intent of the act.

SJB
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@kfg: Very excellent – “Babies all the way down.” There was a character in a Joyce novel, don’t remember the character or the novel, who mused about everyone’s umbilicus attaching to mother, to mother, to mother all the way back to Eve. Babies all the way down.

agent p
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WRT the ad, I am glad I am a sailor, that sailor. Ester Perel, yes a good talk(s), I had seen them before and it certainly touched on many RP concepts, specifically that to create that sexual urgency you need to break the monotony of secure monogamy and create some excitement and danger. @Rollo has ruined pop culture for me now. I have been renovating a bathroom at home and listening to Virgin radio while I work as a form of stick to keep beating me forward with its 90 minute ever repeating play list. I now listen to every… Read more »

Ang Aamer
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I can’t help but think this Open Hypergamy / Open Cuck is nothing more than the modern equivalent of a conquering army impregnating the women and leaving the offspring to be raised by the conquered cucks. Rollo I think you should read this – http://www.scifiwright.com/2015/12/point-deer-make-horse The guys central thesis is that our real enemy is not the people doing the bad things to us. But more the idiots that keep telling us that “they are not so bad”, “It’s good to have an alpha horn dog around” 5th column types that delude us into thinking that bad is good. We… Read more »

Pinelero
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@LeeLee: Men don’t want to raise another man’s obligation even if it is openly known as such through adoption. If you speak to men who father adapted kids, then they may just tell you in an unguarded moment that they just don’t love them the same as their other biological children.

Darryl Long
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Rollo, I’m surprised that in your articles about the future of hypergamy you don’t mention the imminent clash of western feminism and Islamic culture. The French author Michel Houellebecq makes the case in his novels that it will never be possible for feminists to ideologically oppose Islamic culture, despite its treatment of women, because feminism reflexively sides with the underdog against institutionalized power. I don’t think he’s right. I think we’ll see Eurpoean women embrace muslim polygamy and the polyandry of western open hypergamy without acknowledging a conflict. What this means for women’s rights legally is up for grabs. Strange… Read more »

newlyaloof
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Had a big fight last night with wife. Her and our daughter come home after a day of doing their thing while my son and I did our thing. Great day of relaxed bonding and peace and quiet. The second they get home, my daughter starts teasing my son through the open window; she didn’t even wait until she got in the freaking house. My son’s a good kid, and my daughter teases relentlessly. I’ve had to teach him how to win the teasing game, but even for me that shit gets old. Then my wife starts complaining (again from… Read more »

seamanstain05
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@stuttie Good catch with that bachelorette article, just read it. http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/books-magazines/magazines/the-bachelorette-runnerup-michael-turnbull-finds-love-with-stunning-single-mum-katrina-vincent/news-story/5f2bd6fcf28fe46767d39c8b1829cb53 This just confirms that Rollo is spot on about the fact that open cuckoldry is becoming mainstream now. For the series to have a sense of legitimacy, the Bachelorette’s whole premise is that a group of men are competing with each other for the top of the line female. It’s implied by the very structure of the show that the woman in question is supposed to be the prize, head and shoulders above other women…and they want us to buy that a single mom fits that description and is… Read more »

SJF
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“Some shit you just can’t fix.”

And there is some desire you shouldn’t negotiate.

You should know what you are dealing with when you argue with a woman:

http://illimitablemen.com/2014/03/09/how-women-argue/

newlyaloof
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@SJF, after learning red pill, I’ve adjusted accordingly, but sometimes you just can’t jump start a dead battery, no matter how much charge you throw on it. At this point, I just want a wet hole to drain the backup ,and some common respect. If I don’t get it, she don’t get it.

Novaseeker
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Novaseeker
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Great article. The key to rolling this out to men will be to play on men’s egos and desire to not be seen as unmanly. While it may seem like a long-shot, given that the epithet “cuckold” has, since its inception, been one of the worst insults that could be flung at a man in terms of undermining his own sense, and reputation, of manliness, the way it will be done here is by, as you suggest, rebranding cuckolding as something else, and then pressuring men to engage in it by the same means that have been used in related… Read more »

SJF
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I understand.

kfg
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kfg
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” I’m surprised that in your articles about the future of hypergamy you don’t mention the imminent clash of western feminism and Islamic culture.” It’s not Rollo’s thing, but I alluded to it in my first comment. Or, if it isn’t Islam, it will be China looking to give its overpopulation of young men with no hope of marriage something to do. Or those flooding out of Latin America. The thing is that it isn’t wise to assume that the slope we are on in the US will continue on as it is. We are fairly insular compared to much… Read more »

theasdgamer
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As a Catholic I agree that copulation shouldn’t be separate from reproduction.

So no sex after menopause?

Fred Flange, wickdaver
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Something to explore further: So let’s agree this is the modern SMP: empowered cam girls and trust-funded party dolls hanging around the good-looking, monied chodes. The chodes don’t have Game so they hang around and wait for Mz. Camgirl or her HB5 friend to sex-positively approach them. Chad the Chiseled Chode could be accidentally arousing by looking perpetually bored, which is mistaken for Tingles Value. The doodz who don’t porn, cam-girl or pay a pro may try speed-date services like It’s Just Lunch where virtually all the available candidates are divorced be-sprogged ex-carouselers. (I read too many inflight magazines). It… Read more »

benfromtexas
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Talking about the next generation praising their cuckoldry. Watch this video by an Austrailian Band called “5 seconds of summer” the song is called,”She’s kinda hot”

It’s all about letting pretty girls walk all over you.

kfg
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kfg
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“All you’re seeing is the same survival-evolved War Brides dynamic I’ve been writing about for 10 years now . . .”

Correct, which is why ground zero is currently in Sweden, although it may soon move back to its more traditional locations in France and Austria.

benfromtexas
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benfromtexas
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Your daughter wrote you a warning slip? That’s classic, & what’s next detention?

Ang Aamer
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theasdgamer
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@ newlyaloof

her trying to purposefully get me mad about certain things…No sex, no debit card. Disrespect me in any way, no debit card.

I’ve got a post about a similar situation that occurred recently in the Gamer household.

https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2015/12/07/when-women-game/

Ang Aamer
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kfg
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kfg
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@Ang Aamer:

Counterpoint:

http://www.nsma.org.au/pics2003/mywife1.jpg

Fred Flange, wickdaver
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Link (one of many) for the Univ. of Michigan student conduct website/manual that “withholding sex” = violent abuse:

http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/19448/

scribblerg
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I think YaReally is on to something in the sense of how rapidly it’s all evolving. I did more research on the cam thing and also was aware of guys just giving shit to women, but I put that i small minority, like it was exceptional. Cuz it was, just 5 years ago. I had a frame and understanding of sex workers that isn’t even that old, but it’s now obsolete. I realize this is in part due to the narrow window for women who do sex work – 18-25 – they turn over every 7 years. And the new… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Field Report tl;dr Girl looking to hit the Wall advertises for a dad for her baby on a hike. I was on a hike and overheard an early-to-mid 30s HB6 UMC single woman talking about how she is planning to get pregnant soon because of her reduction in egg supply. She also gave her phone no. to the group leader whose gf was watching. She was thinking, “I’m gonna interest these men in sex,” and the men were thinking, “She’s looking for child support for some else’s child. No thanks.” That made for some awkwardness on the hike. Women are… Read more »

IliadsTangent
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“Although I can’t say it’s an accepted social dynamic as yet” It already is in rural areas where men outnumber women. I remember gaming an HB at a table next to mine, and wondered why it was everyone else at the table was suddenly quiet. The girl asked me for a dance and ,wondering WTF was going on, I asked her how everyone knew each other. “Oh were celebrating my wedding anniversary. That’s my husband, the quiet one over here”. She gestures to a slouching Beta sitting next to her. Did she get shamed for talking to another dude on… Read more »

Fred Flange, wickdaver
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The overabundance of rich, jacked chodes diminishing the value of being jacked and being provider-ready wealthy in the SMP reminds me of the old Gilbert & Sullivan refrain:

“If everybody’s Somebody,
Then no one’s anybody!”

Another reminder – in my single BP days, I would have been one of those tromped-on loners watching the Pats game at the bar.

bob bitchin
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bob bitchin
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I agree that this is where we are headed: a re-worded cuckoldry and the propaganda will be delivered by the media and state schools (read female teachers). Anyone seeing 4+ children families? Pretty rare eh? Not when I was a boy. My best friend was the last of 8 and I was the second of 4. We are destroying our (western civilization’) ability to go to war and win. Hiring mercenaries wont work: ask the Romans. Theirs turned on them and destroyed their civilization. We are headed to the dustbin of history. Useful idiots, like pinker, can babble about how… Read more »

jeff
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jeff
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Lol to this post Rollo!

I feel sorry for future slubs. However, it might come around just as sexbots get cheaper and better.

They are making sexbots for women, however for purely sexual pleasure as women need the tingles, something I do not think a sexbot will give in the near future.

MikePhil
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As usual, a great post and no doubt there will be a lot of interesting discussion points here. it’s amazing to see how much the notion of cuckoldry being rebranding as a positive is already afoot. Where marketing goes, personal lives follow. And in speaking of that header image, I really thought it was a joke at first. If it’s getting that blatant out there, no wonder why men everywhere are deciding that the hidden costs of marriage just aren’t worth it. I was recently describes as “detached” and I took it as a compliment. A bit of detachment gives… Read more »

The One
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The One
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@theasdgamer

My view of sex is very eastern. Sex is capable of reproduction outside of the physical realm, i.e ideas, etc. IMO the discrepency between male and female sex drive is intentional as the excess energy should be put into the pursuit of loftier ideals

Craiger247
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Another great article Rollo. At the risk of sounding cliche, you are a treasure to read and I look forward to every article. You are again ahead of the curve, great write up. For example, look at that new (albeit disgusting) Kia Sorrento commercial. The chubby hubby beta in the passenger seat, acting weak as he questions his “alpha” wife where they are going (who coincidentally has short hair and angry demeanor), is dismissed by her. Ultimately, she is the one making the decision where they will park. And in the end she mutters to herself, “Who wears the pants?… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Bob – You are so right about Pinker. What’s saddest is the science that he’s misusing is actually pretty interesting about what motivates us etc. But in the end, he’s just another Blue Pilling chode flacking for SJW madness. Your reference to Rome is also spot on. I’m reading a tome on the decline and fall of Rome (Gibbon, The Decline and Fall of Rome, 200 years old and the style is so much more rich than much non-fiction today, which is interesting in and of itself). One of the things that becomes so clear is how important national leadership… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Scribble, “While of course, SJF is correct to point him in the direction of not taking the bait…” With some women, this isn’t bait. This is flat-out unappreciative, selfish behavior on autopilot. It’s in their programming. I’ve told her I’ve changed and won’t take any shit from friends, family, or coworkers, no matter how minor. Bitch has fucked up credit, only makes about 15k on her own and sometimes acts like her shit doesn’t stink, even though she’s quickly approaching menopause. Like that Terminator line, “You can’t reason with them … they absolutely will not stop until you are dead… Read more »

Wild Man
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@The One: “My view of sex is very eastern. Sex is capable of reproduction outside of the physical realm, i.e ideas, etc. IMO the discrepency between male and female sex drive is intentional as the excess energy should be put into the pursuit of loftier ideals” Are you talking about that kundalini stuff about redirecting the orgiastic output into your spine, so you don’t actually spill seed? If so I would like to hear about that – i.e. – tried that, can’t do it, not enough self discipline or something – it seems like I can’t get a away from… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Newly – With respect, it’s all bait…

Andy
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Andy
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“Unless technology dies out and we go back to the dark ages, there’s no going back to how shit was when monogamous marriage worked.” “Eden isn’t burning, men .Its burnt.” I tend to agree. The Moms in my neighborhood… You can just see it in their eyes. Borderline desperate. They’ve had a taste of true desire and attraction and now it’s gone. They invite me over for the kids to play to test their husbands. Dudes get home from work with me there… and they fail. Every time… It just says so much about the marriage… Kind of sad really.… Read more »

newlyaloof
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@Scribble, upon further reflection, I’ll agree that it’s unconscious bait. And I’m growing tired of the taste.

newlyaloof
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@Andy, you may have mentioned this, but are you a stay at home dad to be able to go over women’s houses while their husbands are working?

Andy
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@newlyaloof

Nah, apparently I just work less. I take the kids while the wife cooks dinner.

scribblerg
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@Wild Man – Not too personal for me, but the entire “eastern sexuality” thing is horseshit. I say this as one who was a devout Buddhist for 7 years, who was part of an “eastern” sangha and actually meditated until I disappeared (a parlor trick easily replicated with non spiritual trancendental meditation to produce a certain brain state). It was shortly after this experience – a “spiritual experience” that many Buddhists work a lifetime for – that I became an atheist. I definitely saw “truth”, lol…

Here’s an article on sex in Buddhist monasteries in Bhutan. http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/06/what-lies-beneath-the-robes-are-buddhist-monasteries-suitable-places-for-children-adele-wilde-blavatsky/

There is no escaping desire.

Striver
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We live in a market based system and sexuality is just another thing traded on the market now. Like all markets, it is prone to speculative bubbles. I guess I see some of the wisdom in a PUA approach because it’s almost an impossible play for a man to become a respected patriarch. Like walking a tightrope for your entire life. Yes, everyone is just doing what comes naturally. That is the problem. Natural eventually leaves in the jungle, in grass huts. Men have always striven to overcome nature and sometimes that means instinct repression. When men have to do… Read more »

Andy
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@newlyaloof

To be honest, the first couple times it happened I just assumed that dude wasn’t going to be coming home. Like that’s kind of disrespectful to have another dude at your house. Then I started to realize what was going on…

If it happened to me I would probably be a bit surprised, but I would know how to pass that test with flying colors. Regardless. Marriage = Fucked!

GW
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GW
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LOL I thought you made up that ad in the picture, but nope. I found a similar one “…Pilot, Ballplayer and Movie star…” on their website.

ETA
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ETA
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@kfg That picture is from Albania, it is often used whenever people talk about the “evil” patriarchy. Taken out of context, it certainly looks like that. That picture was probably taken from mountainous regions of Albania, where people still use an old code of conduct. I’ve posted about it before: http://www.amazon.com/Kanuni-Leke-Dukagjinit-Code-Dukagjini/dp/0962214108/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1449515884&sr=8-1&keywords=leke+dukagjini In those regions it is usually women that work the lands or in this case gather firewood. The reason for it is that man are the ones who are to carry life threatening activities. In this case the man is her bodyguard. According to that code of conduct women… Read more »

Liz
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Lee Lee, I highly recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004KABDJI/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

It works, something like 80 percent of the time. Greatly increases one’s odds of having (whichever, in this case a boy if you want).
We have all boys. The first two I didn’t know about the book, but I knew when I was ovulating and it lined exactly up (in retrospect) with the book’s predictions.

Anonymous Reader
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YaReally Now if you want to settle and have kids, you’ll need some Provider shit but 1) seriously reconsider doing that for another 10 years minimum, because right now you’re walking into a shitshow culture that’s working against you succeeding at that, wait for it to settle down a bit and see where it goes before you decide to take that plunge (like counting cards in blackjack and betting high when you know the deck is better), 2) expect that she’ll leave around the 7-10 year mark like don’t settle thinking “this will last forever”, always accept that it could… Read more »

scray
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scray
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@Fred Flange, wickdaver “. Chad the Chiseled Chode could be accidentally arousing by looking perpetually bored, which is mistaken for Tingles Value. ” Yeah. Competing against these guys is easier than you think, though. I’ve only met one of these types in my entire life experience of going out and coming up through the VIP club scene who is a bona fide Chad with good game. And yeah, he’s an unstoppable force. Game + those things makes a huge difference. But, most ‘Chads’ come off like….kids who decided to take their Dad’s supercharged V-8 Mustang or whatever around the block.… Read more »

Anonymous Reader
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LeeLee
There was absolutely an element of shaming and I can see how that is an example of very early stages of introducing open cuckoldry.

This can be seen in many churches, where it’s become a status symbol to adopt children of a very different skin color, then flaunt it before others. Sure, it’s couched in all sorts of altruistic ways, but it’s more than a little cucky looking.

newlyaloof
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@Andy, “If it happened to me I would probably be a bit surprised, but I would know how to pass that test with flying colors.” Do tell! Regardless, a mini voice recorder hidden some place in your house will let you know all you need to know about the trustworthiness of your special flower. Any beta doubting the red pill will doubt no more once you hear how they talk when you are not around. You may even catch the beginnings of a budding relationship that you can address before any boundary is breached. If you do and ask them… Read more »

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