During the Q&A section of the Man in Demand talk I gave back in September I was asked about where I believed the social dynamic of Open Hypergamy would lead. In specific the idea was proposed, and I agree, that the logical next step for a social order founded on feminine Hypergamy and one that prioritizes the female sexual strategy as preeminent would lead to a state of openly accepted cuckoldry.
Although I can’t say it’s an accepted social dynamic as yet, there are many social indicators that are revealing this push towards a normalized cuckoldry. I’ll explore these for a bit in this essay, but for now these indicators are about a move away from conventional monogamy in the hopes that a ‘soft cuckoldry’ might be a precursor to instituting a more accepted open cuckoldry.
I think it’s also important to keep in mind a couple of primary principles about this shift. First is the fact that, initially, an openly accepted state of feminine-controlled cuckoldry will never be called ‘cuckoldry’ proper. If we use the example of a socially accepted (if not celebrated) open Hypergamy as a model, open cuckoldry will be sold as a more logical, more humane sexual strategy for men and women in light of divorce statistics, romantic boredom and other sexual studies that indicate men and women weren’t evolved for monogamous commitment.
The second is that open cuckoldry is the extension of a unilaterally feminine controlled Hypergamy. That is to say that as Hypergamy becomes more normalized as a social imperative that sexual strategy will extend to optimizing Hypergamy across genders. If that optimization is taken to its logical end it will require men not just to adopt cuckoldry as a norm, but to socially reward them for advocating it among their own sex.
Cuckoldry By Any Other Name
As I said, it wont be called ‘cuckoldry’; the connotations are negative, so a redefining will be made in order to make the practice more socially palatable. The Feminine Imperative wont recruit the very men it needs to perpetuate cuckoldry as their own sexual strategy if the term is derogatory. Thus we’ll get euphemisms for alternative lifestyles, ‘open marriages’ or a “Designer Relationship“:
We live in an era when everything is customizable. Relationships are no exception. Some people will continue to practice their grandparents’ form of monogamy, and others, probably the majority, will be serially exclusive and pair-bonded. Still others will explore some form of non-monogamous expression that encompasses one or more of the facets we’ve discussed or may flow in and out of being exclusive based on what the relationship requires. (We’ve done this ourselves.) Having the ability to customize a relationship means having the freedom to respond to life’s vicissitudes.
The first time I came across the concept of ‘soft polygamy’ I was in a behavioral psychology class exploring the practices of modern marriage and contrasting them with the long term sexual behaviors of men and women. As you might imagine the context of the study focused entirely on the ‘bad behaviors’ of men who essentially transitioned from serial monogamy to serial marriage. The idea was that in the process of moving from one LTR to another men were establishing a soft form of polygamy.
In a social respect, men have far more to lose from serial marriages than do women. The financial liabilities of divorce are well known to the manosphere, but so are the emotional and familial accountabilities. So from a strictly male perspective, serial LTRs are a dicey prospect, but from a female perspective, in a feminine-primary social order, institutionalized Hypergamy and the soft polygamy that results from the Sandbergian sexual strategy, soft cuckoldry becomes pragmatic in optimizing Hypergamy for women.
At this point we should consider the Heartiste maxim about feminism again:
The feminist goal is removing all constraints on female sexuality while maximally restricting male sexuality
Institutionalized cuckoldry is the logical means to restricting male sexuality, but we have to consider what function that restriction serves for women. From an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks perspective the plan is simple; restrict that sexuality as women find need for a particular man’s service.
Diamonds and Rust
While I’m reluctant to prognosticate, my guess is that future generations of men will be conditioned to accept their role in this cuckoldry as part of their socialization. The above Forevermark diamond advertisement is one illustration of this. Open Hypergamy and its acceptance has already made its popular debut in mainstream media and advertising, and likewise open cuckoldry is just now finding a social foothold.
It takes the Red Pill Lens to appreciate the efforts as they’re being made by a large society. The Forevermark ad is intended to be funny or cute, but it belies a deeper, more poignant truth about Alpha Widows, Hypergamy and the long term sexual strategy Plan and roles women expect men to play in it.
I was made aware of this ad being circulated from a reader on Twitter and at first thought it was a reworked joke. It is however legit and billboards with this campaign are up in major cities. Without the benefit of a Red Pill Lens I can see how most men would laugh it off or women might giggle sardonically about it, but the the fact remains that a clever copywriter is aware of the sexual dynamics that make it funny.
I pulled the following quote from Deti on one of Dalrock’s more recent post:
“I think what we will continue to see is growing disengagement.”
Yeah, this has been discussed here and elsewhere in the almost 5 years I’ve been around here.
I think that what will happen is that things will continue sliding in the same direction they’re going now, until a critical mass is reached. I don’t know what that critical mass is, what will trigger it, or when it will be reached.
We live in a mostly free society with a hybrid of capitalism and socialism. We have maximum freedom and autonomy right now, with both sexes being free to pursue pretty much whatever they want, however they want to. That is the prime characteristic driving the current circumstance — that, and up to now, there’s been enough money taxed, borrowed and stolen to pay for it.
A growing number of men are not getting as much sex as they want. A growing number of women aren’t getting commitments in the form they want — when they want or from the men they want.
So things are going to keep sliding that way. More and more men will walk away and direct what energies they have left elsewhere — into work, or beer/bros/Xbox/porn, or travel/leisure. (Oddly enough, this might make many of them more attractive to women, since they’re spending less time directing their attentions to women.) More and more men will earn just enough to support themselves, since they don’t plan on marriage, and fatherhood is out of the question. They will lack the skills to improve their lives. They will not get nearly as much sex as they want, but they will learn to live with it — mostly through porn, the occasional hookup, and the even more occasional prostitute. The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.
More and more women will direct their attentions into their work, travel/leisure, and having children without men. (This will definitely make more of them less attractive to men except as on again, off again sex partners.) They will not get the commitments from men they want, but they will learn to live with it. They will complain about it with increasing volume and shrillness, but they’ll learn to live with it.
Until something happens to cause the tides to turn. Again – don’t know what, or when, or how. But something will happen to cause a hard reset. And it will be exquisitely painful for everyone. I don’t want it to happen, nor do I relish it. It’s not something to desire or look forward to because of the pain it will bring. But I do think it will happen. I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime or my kids’ lifetimes. We could easily slide like this for another 50 to 100 years.
I think one consequence of this separation of the genders will include a socially normalized institution of cuckoldry. To take hold it will need to be termed something different, but in effect the process of women conceiving with one man and then expecting another man to parentally invest himself in that child will be a casual expectation of women. With so many men effectively (if not intentionally) going their own way, the idea that any man wouldn’t be expected to serve as a surrogate parent will become commonplace.
Genders divided by feminism or feminine social primacy will need a ‘customized’ form of cuckoldry that allows for the Alpha Fucks side of Hypergamy to be reconciled with the Beta Bucks side by enlisting different men for either purpose.
The Pink Pill
I want to end here with an essay I read recently on the fallout of the new female form of Viagra:
In an infamous cartoon in The New Yorker in 2001, one woman confides to a friend over drinks: ‘I was on hormone replacement for two years before I realized what I really needed was Steve replacement.’ Medicine has been reluctant to engage the question of just how much monogamy and long-term togetherness affect sexual function and desire, and the ‘Steve’ problem remains an issue that is tacitly acknowledged and yet under-discussed. To return to Julie’s growing pile of self-help titles, the books all promise to return, revive, restore without really getting down to the brass tacks of why desire extinguished in the first place. As Julie notes, the honeymoon grinds to an end, but the issues leading there are complex. In short supply is attention to the way mind and body react to social structures such as popular media, faith and marriage.
To develop drugs to boost libido is like ‘giving antibiotics to pigs because of the shit they’re standing in’
The American psychologist Christopher Ryan argues that the institution of modern marriage – meaning an exclusive couple bound by romantic love – is antithetical to long-term excitement. Ryan is best known for Sex at Dawn (2010), a book authored with his wife Cacilda Jethá, that makes the case that sexual monogamy is deeply at odds with human nature. He is among a growing number of researchers suggesting that the rift between women’s purportedly limitless sexual potential and their dulled actuality might owe to the circumstances of intimacy. Accordingly, the conjugal bed is not only the scene of dwindling desire, but its fundamental cause. The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust. While love angles toward intimacy, desire flourishes across a distance.
The entire article is very insightful if not a bit depressing, but with the Red Pill Lens we can begin to understand the latent purpose behind the message. I’ve gone on record about the pushback against clearing the pink pill for use as being a direct threat to women’s control of their own Hypergamy. The concern, ostensibly, is that a libido stimulating drug might be used to induce a woman into having sex that her otherwise sober sense would prevent; effectively it could be a ‘rape’ drug.
What’s finally being addressed in this article however is what I’ve been saying since I was aware of the drug’s trials – a chemical that induces libido in women removes an element of their control in sexual selection and compromises Hypergamy. I’m not entirely sure the author was aware of the points she was revealing in this, but she succinctly makes the case for both institutionalized cuckoldry (or certainly a ‘customized’ soft polygamy for women) and advocates for women maintaining control of their Hypergamy unclouded by a drug that would remove that control by chemically inducing them into sex that isn’t of their own choosing.
The ‘cure’ to women’s low libido is holistic, not biological. Women’s sexual deficiencies are presumed not to be the result of a ‘broken’ biology, but rather a lack of proper motivation. I should point out that all of this validates all the points I was making about Dread in marriage last month on Biblical Gender Roles – maintaining a condition of proper motivation (i.e. Dread), the holistic cure, is exactly what even femosphere authors are tacitly advocating.
The elements that strengthen love – reciprocity, closeness, emotional security – can be the very things that smother lust.
Yet now, even when a pharmaceutical solution to the lust problem is made available the ‘cure’ is rejected. Why? Because on a root, limbic level women’s hindbrains know that Hypergamy cannot be optimized with a drug that removes Hypergamous choice. The real solution has never changed and women are now put into a position of having to openly acknowledge that for all of the pretense of “mismatched libidos” or “sex just declines after marriage” social conventions, men’s cuckoldry is the real plan for Hypergamy.
When presented with a pill that will make them sexual, when given a cure to their low sex drives with the men who’ve made lifetime commitments to them, women will still refuse to take it. Hypergamous doubt can’t be quelled with a pill.
“From here I will just act as though I never agreed to any of it, and that the conversation never took place.”
Own it.
DM, “I changed my mind”
Her, “You can’t do that”
DM, “I asked myself for permission, and I said it was ok”
Yeah, that’s even better.
“I asked myself for permission, and I said it was ok”
haha, I’m going to steal that.
cuckold enterprise level
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3362885/Struggling-Yahoo-CEO-Marissa-Mayer-fire-7MILLION-Gatsby-themed-holiday-party-sat-pure-white-throne-posing-photos-employees.html
Maris poor, she was placed in an almost dead business, could not do much, now she deserves to go to a better place, a large check and of course end with a party of 7 million dollars before laying off thousands of workers.
@ SJF I’m hard core INTJ. I started out somewhat INTJish–say, for the first 50 years–then discovered it wasn’t much fun, so changed to xxxx. I’m having a lot more fun now. I even get invited to parties. Shock! In serious matters like my life depends on it I can’t develop a slap and tickle mentality. Sure, you have to be like that when you’re working. Even fighting, which is serious, I do better when I make it into a game. Think of C J Cherry’s writing about play and warriorcraft. I can see some of Ender in myself, too.… Read more »
As a rule don’t argue in front of the kids. Although I do believe is OK at times when she is being really egregious. In order to really make a point. To be overt. To show her attitude or behavior or what she said is unacceptable and you really mean it. Don’t prolong it. Make a point be emphatic and be brief. (I guess that’s Law #28.)But don’t make a habit of showing mom and dad are less than perfect. The kids need you two to be great parents. Be their heroes. And don’t do it while you are intoxicated… Read more »
@ Dutch I tried for sex last night but she wasn’t into it (I was pretty tired myself). Same here. I’ll post a bit more so you can check congruence (i.e., is my shit working). It’s not for bragging or ego-validation. Mrs. Gamer tried for sex this a.m. but I wanted to sleep. I don’t pedestalize pussy. I have something like abundance mentality–non-neediness. Mrs. Gamer hitting me up for sex is common–about half the time she instigates. Good girl. Mrs. Gamer flirts with me heavily a lot of the time and I’ll flirt back. Sex isn’t far from her mind.… Read more »
Notice my frame in my responses to Dutchman. Is Dutchman in charge of Dutchman, or is she?
My wife asks for permission to disagree with me, and usually apologizes too.
We have conversations, not arguments.
And yes, don’t argue in front of the kids. You can have disagreements in front of them though.
My wife asks for permission to disagree with me, and usually apologizes too.
CaveClown just pwned the Internet at December 16, 2015 at 4:01 pm.
It’s not even so much fighting in front of the kids she’s talking about. It’s me teasing her and making fun of her and all of that. Which, lol, the kids need to see.
Asd, ymmv. She’s in my frame, just not sure if she is a hostage or volunteer. Dm, Kids need to see game for sure. Probably just some calibration issues, ya know? “I’m sorry, what did you say? I was too busy staring at your tits” “Yes, I would love spaghetti for dinner” (random AF) “You’re cute when you’re angry” Depends on where you are at in all this. Boundaries and being in your own frame for starts. Here’s one thing I did at first. We used to have some EPIC fights. Loud, name calling, etc. “We can discuss this, but… Read more »
@ SJF A biiig help to improving my social skills is when I realized that other people didn’t get the thrill from hearing my monologue about my current obsession like I did. This bit of info came from learning about autism. “This is about the obsessive joy of autism. So I guess, if I’m trying to explain what an obsession (and, by necessity, obsessive joy) means to me as an autistic person, I can bring it back to the tired old image of a little professor cornering an unsuspecting passerby and lecturing them for half an hour. All too often… Read more »
Thanks ASD, I’m definitely having a lot more fun now these days. I socialize well. I like to socialize and enjoy it, but I still need to recharge my batteries by withdrawing as an introvert. I have been able to calibrate to what is needed by her. I took that allistic term from the incomprehensible explanation on Wikipedia. I have to believe is someone was scoring, they would call me neurotypical, but I honestly don’t know what that means, nor really see the value of labeling that way. What’s the point of the distinctions? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotypical I actually never watched any… Read more »
I gave up my didactic lecturing about my latest obsessions in an endless rambling a while ago. I can mix it up now and calibrate to the person i’m talking to, but my didacticism is still there. Just as Forge the Sky.
And I’m no doubt the joyful lecturer. Gave that up in front of the wife decades ago. I sneak it in at parties when she isn’t looking.
not just as Forge, just ask him. We’ve talked in real life.
“You’re cute when you’re angry” Good shit. I’m using that for sure. “Depends on where you are at in all this. Boundaries and being in your own frame for starts. I’m anything but consistent with this. Sometimes I’m completely in my own frame (like last night), usually I’m twisting in the wind though. “Here’s one thing I did at first. We used to have some EPIC fights. Loud, name calling, etc. “We can discuss this, but any raised voices or low blows…on either side… And I leave the room.” Did you go out of the way to treat something she… Read more »
@Dutchman
“It’s me teasing her and making fun of her and all of that. Which, lol, the kids need to see.”
What?
Out of my way? No. But I left the room a couple times.
Her response to that was to cry instead of yell. Which was met with me getting her a box of tissues and sitting back down, completely unphased by her waterworks.
I actually had a hard time not laughing, because it was so obviously a test.
Keep in mind this took 2 years or so.
Yeah, what?
I didn’t catch that the first time
I loathe those chick-crack sayings on boards that keep popping up in my home. So much so that I want to start a heated argument with my wife. She decorates with impunity.
As I was fulfilling my wive’s emotional needs to get a live Christmas tree (in addition to the other fully decorated one that her four cats can sleep under) this afternoon, I saw this one at the tree store:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y220/Derm95/IMG_20151216_142938_059.jpg
As far as Star Trek went, Kirk got more action on the show. Spock/Nimoy got more female fan mail than Kirk/Shatner.
@Blaximus Regarding your comment of 12.12.2015 at 7:50, I had that same discovery myself. I learned the hard way that sharing any emotions, other than happy / angry, will just blow up in your face. Don’t share, reveal or discuss what’s going on inside you with a woman. If you have to, just flat out lie. No good will come from revealing the truth. Wallowing in an indulgent, public display of emotion is a woman’s playing field, full stop. When YOU do that gentlemen, expect the woman in your life to back-pedal away from you at top speed. Sad, but… Read more »
@Blaximus Regarding your comment of 12.12.2015 at 7:50, I had that same discovery myself. I learned the hard way that sharing any emotions, other than happy / angry, will just blow up in your face. Don’t share, reveal or discuss what’s going on inside you with a woman. If you have to, just flat out lie. No good will come from revealing the truth. Wallowing in an indulgent, public display of emotion is a woman’s playing field, full stop. When YOU do that gentlemen, expect the woman in your life to back-pedal away from you at top speed. Sad, but… Read more »
[…] Devil is in the perceived ‘agreement’ and who’s doing the agreeing. Contemporary Open Cuckoldry and the social conventions of ‘free love’ era faux-idealisms in ‘open […]
@MikePhil OK, a light bulb just went off in my head. “Don’t share, reveal or discuss what’s going on inside you with a woman.” But complement her, feed her emotions, make her feel good about herself, spike her emotions when she needs it, calm her fears when she needs that, make her happy, flirt and tickle. Because you got things covered and she needs your emotional availability. Emotional availability isn’t about me. It’s about her. I actually was clinically emotionally retarded about that before the end of this thread. And I’m not ashamed to admit it. Thanks for the dialogue… Read more »
“Maybe Forge can make sense out of the holiday antsy-ness going on in comments above. . He’s always good to hear from.” Hoo, I’m staring down the barrel with work here right now. But maybe I can fly one in under the radar. -This is a somewhat weird thread. More friction than usual, but mostly notable due to the emphasis on our relative roles in this ‘community’ than anything. I think this is due to a fairly stable core commentariat existing for a while now. -Glenn’s running into internal resistance wrt his work, which he’s been hinting at for a… Read more »
oh ya!
-CaveClown has pulled off a massive relationship reframe that I witness with a mixture of delight and unease. Keep sharp bro, your frame not hers.
Classic line with the ‘I’m gonna get some sun and get laid, are you coming? Perfect, I lol’d.
@ SJF Our life is full and both of us function well in life with moderate to low sex drive. Once upon a time, Mrs. Gamer said that she could go the rest of her life without sex. Believe what women do, not what they say. What’s the point of the distinctions? To explain feelings and behavior. My mental point of origin, satisfaction, and game (married man game but also meeting women elsewhere) is pretty good these days. Excellent. I have actually turned around her desire dynamic to have desire sex, but definitely need to supply her emotional needs better… Read more »
@ SJF
OK, a light bulb just went off in my head. “Don’t share, reveal or discuss what’s going on inside you with a woman.”
You can show emotions as long as they are within your frame. You must stay congruent and not submit to a woman’s frame when you show emotions.
@Cave, SJF
I meant that my wife has a problem with me teasing/making fun of her in front of the kids.
@ Forge ASD is calibrating poorly and doesn’t much understand the fire many men feel. I have a kid I have barely spoken with in five years. I have another who won’t give me hugs. I went through five years of depression/sexual desert. I went through agony as part of a breakup with a college gf. It took me ten years to get over her. Tell me again how I don’t understand emotional fire. As I told SJF, no pussy passes for anybody and no enabling. Sometimes life is a bitch. We still have to deal with it as it… Read more »
@ASD – I’m not playing “dominance games” – I’m just dominant. I know, you get jealous, that’s okay, I’ve been getting that crap from dweebs like you for my whole life. It’s just that IRL, I shut them up in 30 seconds. But please, carry on, clearly you are demonstrating tremendous value, lol.
All, I’m loving the LTR game talk, very informative and it’s a great way for me to see game from a different POV. Same game, different context.
My date flaked. Next. Back out tomorrow night. My head is in a great place and I’m ready to play.
One more thing. It’s like I’m getting to a different level of self-improvement and internal game. I realize that I’ve been stopping, not going to my edges. It’s kind of amazing how my horizons just continue to expand. A year ago I’d think where I am now would be great. Now, I can see I’m not operating at top form or speed. Just tremendous. The cause? I see myself as incredibly high value and have opened up a gap between how I see myself and who I’m being, hence the existential angst. Not possible without the Red Pill. It’s time… Read more »
“Once upon a time, Mrs. Gamer said that she could go the rest of her life without sex. Believe what women do, not what they say.” Point well taken ASD. As long as I’m being honest, I’ll have to admit that is my own “fucking” fault. One for not fucking her good enough in the first 20 years. And two for suppressing my own testosterone with enough whisky to float a battleship around. Still waiting for the testosterone to rebound. I think it will. “To explain feelings and behavior.” I don’t know, but I think I got that covered without… Read more »
@Dutchman
“I meant that my wife has a problem with me teasing/making fun of her in front of the kids.”
And you have a problem with that?
I still don’t understand. I would hope you don’t think you are in the right.
“I realize that I’ve been stopping, not going to my edges. It’s kind of amazing how my horizons just continue to expand. A year ago I’d think where I am now would be great. Now, I can see I’m not operating at top form or speed. Just tremendous.” See what I mean? That, gentlemen, is red-pill-awareness and masculine self-improvement personified. Godspeed Glenn. (Oh, wait. Never mind, you’re an atheist. But good luck. Oh, wait you don’t need that either, you’re skilled and resourceful. Have fun. Oh, wait you can’t do that you’re too emotionally traumatized. What the heck?…. I love… Read more »
@ASD Not trying to minimize your pain/experience. I was trying to be succinct and so that might have come across wrong. What strikes me about your commentary isn’t the lack of emotions – it’s the different-ness of the emotions. Mostly in what sorts of priorities they take, which ones are strong or weak and when they are so. As an example, I can empathize with finding interest in an abstract topic and relating it to someone. But I don’t do so with obsessive abandon, or with the degree of joy you describe wrt ‘stimming.’ I suspect similarly you understand what… Read more »
“Same game, different context.”
Yep. Game concepts are fungible. Really, really fungible. Mutually interchangeable.
Onward Glenn! Fuckin’ A, look how fast you bounced out of your funk this time. Next time might be faster still. You’re getting good at this. Re: your reply to my anger/violence axiom earlier – thanks for that, I was trying to create a pithy slogan but guess it’s not ready for primetime lol. I’ve hypothesized before that perception of your own status is fundamentally what’s behind the alpha/beta divide, and that power is behind other’s perception of it. And that’s the conception you more or less laid out in your post. I’m trying to make quick shorthands for basic… Read more »
YaReally and others – short FR from the next night of going out. More of the same really – state was terrible and I was locked in my head (even though I had a wing) and I never got going for two hours. Opened a few girls (and they blew right open) but didn’t even make a serious effort 🙁 It was still interesting to watch the IOIs though – one pretty blonde HB7 came and ordered at the bar next to me when she didn’t need to – engaged well when I opened her (before I let it fizzle).… Read more »
ASD Gamer: “That’s classified.”
Miss Asahina, is that you?
@SJF
FWIW, my impression of you doesn’t involve ASD (the disorder, not the dude). But you genuflect in that direction. Like how a details-oriented person genuflects towards OCD, without having any actual pathology – just the positives and negatives you’ll find in any distinctive personality.
Your personality just tends to de-emphasize ‘vibing’ or feeling-with other people in favor of didactic understanding, and your intellect tends to seize upon things fiercely. It gives you great propensity for frame and understanding, and low propensity for charisma and spontaneity.
@Culum Struan
Mindset is all. Technique is the other 50%.
-How did you let the sets fizzle? Like, what sorts of things did you say, what was their body language, did you have material prepared so you could keep talking if inspiration didn’t just happen to strike?
-What did you do to try and get yourself in state and out of your head? Do you have any strategies for this or are you just winging it and hoping for the best?
-Props for going out, man.
@SJF
I’m surprised that anyone would have an issue with me teasing the wife in front of the kids. Is not a dominant theme of the manosphere that women are silly creatures who are not to be taken seriously? Has Rollo not advised “demonstrate, don’t explicate” on many occasions”? That’s what I’m talking about here. Showing my sons hoe to tease women and not take them seriously. Admittedly, I have a long way to go but I’m working on it. And I’m not talking about treating my wife like a piece of shit. I mean rather subtly teasing her.
Dutch
YGBSM.
Teasing playfully is one thing.
Making fun of her to point out her flaws and to demean her is another.
Play with her. Don’t try to play her. Women are people too, you know.
I’m still asking. What are you talking about?
@Forge, December 16th, 2015 at 10:13 pm
Got it. Well said, on target and I appreciate it.
Slowly, I become less emotionally un-intelligent. No wonder I’m still here.
Note to self: “Stop hoping for a completion of anything in life.”
As for: December 16th, 2015 at 7:24 pm
Lol. That’s funny, witty and good writing. What an ambassador you are.
@SJF – thanks for the support man. I posted a bit more about this in the short FR I posted yesterday and a long one about 2-3 weeks ago on here (mid-late Nov) where YaReally gave some great comments. Basically this time my state was bad but even on a “good” night I open a lot of sets, I start chatting to them, they engage well, I can SEE the IOIs in front of me..I often reach the hook point..then there’s kind of a pause for a second and I just sort of go blank and don’t know what to… Read more »
Not actually sure what your point is SJF. Teasing is fine. Her giving him crap about is likely a shit test. If it’s not, if she’s actually upset, then he’s not calibrating the teasing correctly. Can’t say which is true without observing, but likely the former since beginners tend to underdo rather than overdo the asshole. If it’s a shit-test just laugh it off, A&A, ignore, the usual. If she’s hurt by your teasing tease her about something else. If the kids are distressed by the teasing tease them. They need to see this shit. My parents would kiss in… Read more »
@ Forge And so you don’t learn to read others reflexively like others might, And so you can’t learn to read others reflexively like others might, My mental “social computer” is dedicated to other functions. I have to run a simulator, which is much slower in real-time than a social computer. There is a positive tradeoff to compensate for the loss of real-time social functionality. you need to consciously make yourself pay attention enough to learn Yep, build a neural net simulator. More input! Apply similar processes (by matter of degrees) to other sorts of experiences and you have a… Read more »
@ Culum
I go blank and I bail
Practice a scenario with the wall where you go blank, but don’t bail, so you know that you can handle it. Expect to go blank and just bullshit your way through it, keeping your nonverbals strong. Then practice it with your wing, then with some clerk at the store, then some broads at clubs, etc.
@ kfg
What’s this asahina thing?
or him explaining. I might have missed something. Good Amused-Mastery teasing is fine. Somehow I imagined he was making fun of her in a show of adolescent-skill-set dominance.
I hope I’m wrong.
If so, then,……… Umm, Sorry?
@Culum Struan Ok man, good stuff. Sorry, I kinda blanked on your older posts, I remember now lol. It sounds like you’re fairly cognizant of your sticking points and ways to work on them. wrt getting into state, maybe try a few new things – I used to hate dancing, now I hit the floor for a bit to unstifle myself and just have a blast making a fool of myself lol. Not saying it’ll work for you, I’m just saying help can come from unexpected angles here. With your sets fizzling – I think this is really a mindset… Read more »
@Culum “@SJF – thanks for the support man.” You mis-attributed to me.
But I think we can get the comments to 1000 in this essay’s winding thread.
MSimon got it the first time. Cagey bastard. Let’s see if we can get a runner-up.
I am the alpha of the relationship.
Caveclown
Look man seening porn is not going to help with being dominant. Your taking the mojo and feels of the male who already was set up for the bang. When I see dogs play they play and show dominance and build tension.
Thanks @theasdgamer and @Forge the Sky (right name now lol). My kino is fine (when I’m in state). I’ll often end up fizzling and bailing even when kino is going well. I think you’re right there’s a lot of intent issues there – like I need to do it and move the interaction forwards *towards the bang*, not just to “practice my opening” or whatever. And I totally agree that there needs to be some kind of vibe between us to keep me interested and going forward..like some genuine attraction on her part.. Will update on field reports for the… Read more »
@Forge
“Not actually sure what your point is SJF. Teasing is fine. Her giving him crap about is likely a shit test. If it’s not, if she’s actually upset, then he’s not calibrating the teasing correctly. Can’t say which is true without observing, but likely the former since beginners tend to underdo rather than overdo the asshole.”
I’m pretty sure I’m not overdoing it. I never actually point out any flaws.
Thought I’d post this in case it helps anyone. So I had all these goals for my marriage and for some reason I had this notion that if I could just get x,y,z nailed down then this magic wave of contentment would wash over me. Nope. Sandwiches are just sandwiches. Sex is sex. Bj’s are bj’s. Genuine appreciation is… cute. All nice things of course, but they don’t add up to some grand deeper meaning. I feel stupid for thinking otherwise because obviously I’ve read that this is the case. This is an important realization for me though, because it… Read more »
@culum
I teased a bit about whether she was turning 40 and she looked horrified for a sec (just a sec) (I should have smiled more to make it obvious it was a joke)
use Julien’s “just kidding” and immediately switch to another topic with emotional spikes
Andy Thought I’d post this in case it helps anyone. So I had all these goals for my marriage and for some reason I had this notion that if I could just get x,y,z nailed down then this magic wave of contentment would wash over me. Rollo’s right, we men are the true romantics. IMO this is one major cause of oneitis. Romanticism is fine, within proper boundaries, but when a man lets it run all over him things won’t turn out well. Enjoy the family but realize that it could all go away at any time, and you’d have… Read more »
“Contentment appears to be a temporary thing, humans will find something in their environment that isn’t “good enough””
Which is oddly contenting in and of itself. 🙂
@SJF
Waiting for your reply… I like you dummy. I’m trying to make friends with you… Make fun of me, give me shit. I mean I understand it would be difficult because I’m so COOL, but you could try. 🙂
@Andy
I lol’d at your prev. comment. SJF has an odd eye for detail.
Here, I’ll try this, sometimes the poster attribution is fucked up: @sjfrellc
Now that gay marriage is legal, maybe women should marry each other and raise children together with no male input. I’m eastern European so things here are different but a significant minority of men are simply uninterested in marrying. Even the friends I have who did marry or plan to do so, most do it because they want to build a family with someone and they found a quality girl. I have no idea how men will be duped to be cuckolds given that women here becoming more western by a small margin in my generation post 1989 caused men… Read more »
Damn, I need to remember to keep checking back in on these threads. CaveClown dropped a serious bomb with the permission thing, I’m definitely stealing that too. For now, I just wanted to drop in some schaudenfreude: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2oxIt0pOsI I remember watching the video where this guy talks about getting his first kiss, and I was seriously jealous. Dude is really blue pill but manages to stumble into being alpha without really knowing what he’s doing. I took a lot of pleasure listening to him whine about having to guard against other guys stealing his girls. It reminds me that I… Read more »
[…] to this comfort level for almost two years now. Open Hypergamy is almost a given at this stage. Open cuckoldry is beginning to establish a foothold in being socially acceptable, and later socially expected. In […]
[…] how unignorable this feminization as become. In a similar fashion to how Open Hypergamy and soon Open Cuckoldry are becoming too socially evident to ignore, so too is the fact that an increasing majority of […]
Rollo, you have the best blog in the manosphere. It’s always polite, respectful, and always, always, deeply insightful. The thinking, always incisive. Like a scalpel.
Was skimming through the front page of BBC news and saw a science article titled “Why pairing up for life is a bad idea”. It’s real brahs. Thank god I found TRP.
Everyone should check out this show called “outlander”. In the new season2E1, i realized just how red pill i have become. Check it out to see just how true what rollo is writing about here is (open cuckoldry). The next generation of blue pillers are seriously fucked. To summarize the episode. Woman leaves husband, comes back pregnant with another man’s child. She tells the beta she still loves the man (jamie) who got her pregnant. The beta then proceeds to beg her to give their relationship another chance (crying like a bitch even). In the end he agrees to raise… Read more »
[…] their potential spouses, and later wives, to any moral standards whatsoever to the point where open cuckoldry and open hypergamy are the order of the […]
[…] Open Cuckoldry […]
Open cuckoldry will de-incentivise the most productive members of civilization, men. Less productive economy = less competitive = easier to be overthrown my other economies.
“The price of prostitutes will skyrocket as demand increases; and a few more women will go into high-end call girl work to earn side money.” – Deti
It’s happening the other way around. More and more girls are selling them selves, supply is greater than demand, cheaper escorts. Hookup culture has made girls think nothing of being whores. Why not get paid for it by some old rich guy and just keep it a secret. Discusting.
[…] important to consider the societal ramification that something like Open Hypergamy (even Open Cuckoldry) will mean in an era when women must look to the most Hypergamously desirable men and seek their […]
[…] [3] https://therationalmale.com/2015/12/07/open-cuckoldry/comment-page-3/ […]
CSP
http://wp.me/p4tvpM-1NXB
[…] addressed the comfort women now have in openly acknowledging their Hypergamy. Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckoldry are not just embraced, they’re celebrated among women and among the feminine-primary social […]
[…] actually isn’t much to elaborate or analyze. Read the article and read “Open Cuckoldry” and you’ll understand what is going on. The only remaining question is, “How […]
@Rollo Tomassi
What do you think about Christopher Ryan and his book Sex at Dawn?? Do you believe his points are valid? Is there an antithesis between his theory about the mating default mode of humans and the red pill?
Open cuckoldry…..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4943884/Polyamorous-couple-Morning.html
[…] the next step in Open Hypergamy would be transitioning to a state of normalized and accepted Open Cuckoldry. Wrapped into this transition is also the social efforts to normalize a feminine-controlled form of […]
Wow, this reads like the thesis-manifesto that I want my Boomer-era parents to understand. You know, when you’re sitting around the table at Thanksgiving and someone starts asking intrusive questions about Life Plans…? Yeah, that’s when I want to freak out on behalf of me and my single brother and our two unmarried cousins about how their generation broke the system. The WWII-era grandparents set up middle-class suburbia, peace, prosperity and the nuclear family until their kids took a steaming-hot dump on the mechanisms that held it in place. Consequently, the Sexual Revolution left thing wrecked and confusing for the… Read more »
I had never even heard of a female ‘viagra’, and it’s amazing – and at the same time understandable from a hypergamy perspective – that women refuse to take this to improve their sex lives with their ‘boring’ husbands. One point I’d like to make just now. In today’s world, when women can earn their own wage; why should they even marry a man that they have no genuine desire for? Without sex they are more or less ‘friends’, and women have other women to fill that gap for them (plus of course there are always cats, only slightly sarcastic).… Read more »