Open Relationships

Functional_cuckoldry

During the last post’s comment thread I sort of went back in time to when I’d first heard the term ‘open relationship’. It was back in the mid 80s and I’d heard it being proposed to me by my first girlfriend when I was around 19 and she’d grown bored of my predictable Beta perfection. Needless to say this moment preceded my semi-pro rock star 20s and the natural Alpha-ness I matured into. So at the time I was thoroughly steeped in the dutiful Beta conditioning of believing that ‘going steady’ monogamy and only banging the ONE girl was the right thing to do.

I also believed that women’s motives were reliably based on what they said rather than what their behaviors implied (and their contradicting behaviors were the result of being confused by nebulous ‘society’s’ unfair expectations of women). So it was with a great deal of confusion that I was forced to wrap my head around exactly why my ‘girlfriend’ would want to retain me as an intimate orbiter while she pursued other guys to bang and become potential intimates with.

She suggested an “open relationship” – all the same non-sexual intimate expectations with no expectation of reciprocal sexual fidelity –  an idea she’d no doubt been familiarized with from her former hippie ‘free love‘ parents. And not unlike the simpering Beta in today’s cartoon, I too was uncomfortable with sharing my 18 year old girlfriend with any other guy. Looking back it was quite the conflict to my 19 year old, Beta conditioned mind. On one hand I was taught to respect the independence of a woman and didn’t want to be the guy to tell her what she could or couldn’t do, but I also bought into the Disneyesque sacrifice all for true love narrative.

I suppose now I owe her some gratitude since my rejecting this “I want to play the field” episode was instrumental in setting me on a course for my Alpha 20s and the “don’t give a fuck” attitude that unintentionally served me so well with women then.

Today there are cutesy synonyms like ‘poly’ to describe a woman who believes it’s in her multiple lovers’, as well as her own, mutual interests that they obligate themselves to what really amounts to her attention, emotional and sexual needs independent of each guy who fulfills that role for her. The problem arises in the degree of investment those men believe that an above board ‘poly’ woman will be able to appreciate. I had this situation presented in last weeks’ comments:

Why does an open relationship favor women and not men? It’s only cuckoldry if you don’t approve of it. If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.

The cuckoldry Devil is in the details; and in this case that Devil is in the perceived ‘agreement’ and who’s doing the agreeing. Contemporary Open Cuckoldry and the social conventions of ‘free love’ era faux-idealisms in ‘open relationships’ work in tandem today to promote the sexual selection strategy of women’s Hypergamy.

Cuckoldry, in its most visceral, Hypergamous sense, favors women because there is no margin for error on a man’s part. Bear in mind that an ‘open’ relationship only serves a woman’s sexual imperative because she benefits from comfort, rapport, security and likely provisioning of the primary man with whom she’s come to this agreement with. In all honesty I’ve rarely met a guy in an open relationship who wasn’t a Beta at the mercy of his wife or LTR’s proliferative phase, Alpha Fucks, Hypergamous impulses.

Most of them understand their optionless condition and resign themselves to the women they’ve committed to, wanting to, and acting on fucking more suitably, conventionally, masculine men than themselves. Arguably, most stay at home fathers fall into a sort of contextual form of an open relationship for much of the same reasons even if their wives are only getting a vicarious Alpha ‘fix’ by working among higher status men who haven’t abdicated on their burden of performance by adopting the feminine support role.

What About Those Assholes?

Now I am aware of the often domineering men who insist on fucking women outside of their commitment to a monogamous lover. I also understand that the reverse can and does apply. I’m also aware that when a man’s SMV exceeds a woman’s it places her into a similar position to that of the Beta men I’ve just described.

Bear in mind that the issue I’m on about here isn’t one of fault, but rather how an effectively polygamous relationship serves the interests of either genders’ sexual strategy.

It’s vitally important to consider how both of these ‘open relationship’ formats are popularly perceived in a cultural context. For a woman, being ‘poly’ may hold some stigma to it. She may be considered a de facto slut in some sense – remember she’s maintaining the pretense that she’s committed to one or more men, rather than a booty call where there is no pretense of exclusivity – but the social (not to mention legal assurance) efforts being made to ‘normalize’ what amounts to her cuckoldry of that ‘primary’ partner is reinforced because it seemingly serves as some kind of new-age feminine-primary family unit. And after all, he too is ostensibly free to exercise his sexual strategy in this arrangement. A win-win, right?

In the case where the ‘primary’ partner is the woman and the high SMV man leaves her no choice but to adopt his sexual strategy as the dominant one in the relationship, that ‘open relationship’ is considered dysfunctional and socially frowned upon. He’s a cad or a philanderer at best, and an abusive self-absorbed inconsiderate monster at worst. Reverse the sexes in today’s cartoon and imagine what the feminine-primary social response might be.

Force Fitting Sexual Strategies

What we’re observing in a modern interpretation of ‘poly’ or ‘open relationships’ is a conflict between the normalization of unilateral control of sexual strategy within a monogamous relationship context. I know that sounds like a mouthful but consider…

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

No doubt many Blue and Purple Pill readers will (in the interests of “equality”) remind us that there was a time when it was socially expected of (high socio-economic status) men to “keep” a mistress (or use prostitutes) as well as a wife, or even have many wives. All socio-economic Apex Fallacies aside, this being an outlier rather than a norm, those arrangements still put that man into a position of maintaining support for both (all) women in order to satisfy his sexual appetites as well as the relative wellbeing of them.

In the modern instance where western(ized) women are a protected class in a feminine-primary social order, the priority of sexual strategy changes hands. I cover this exchange in the Adaptation series of posts, but to paraphrase, Free Love, open relationships or now, ‘poly’, has really become an increasingly acceptable methodology for women to optimize both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy while still enjoying a semblance of the security that old order monogamy provides for women’s emotional needs.

Now lets review The Cardinal Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

In an economic state where women are less financially dependent on (or autonomous from) men, the Alpha Fucks aspect of Hypergamy will take priority. That’s not to say the Beta comfort and rapport appeal becomes worthless as an emotional investment, but it’s less likely for a woman to need to prioritize that aspect while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect. Beta comfort and security have a value, but that value requires less urgency than pursing Alpha sexual experience (functional breeding opportunities).

Consider the poor Beta symp in the cartoon. That caricature is of a Beta conditioned man struggling with the Old Set of Books, with the old order ruleset expectations from a woman who will never recognize them because she’s never needed to. It’s his investment in her, his necessitousness, his optionlessness and his inability to see it’s the source of his frustration and his anxiety. He needs her, expects more from her, than she needs him.

The lie inherent in the humor of the cartoon is that women possess the capacity to compartmentalize their emotional investments. The Medium is the Message; women can only compartmentalize their feelings for men they don’t see as Hypergamously optimal men (i.e. Alpha, higher than their own SMV men). For men who embody that optimization, women simply cannot afford to feel anything more than submission (a submission to a dominant man they innately desire) to him and are thus unable to consider anything like compartmentalizing their emotions for him.

And from Schedules of Mating:

For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she’s able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring’s survival with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

‘Open’ relationships, and the social narrative reinforcement of the concept, are one such adaptation to facilitate this methodology.

All of this may seem a bit pervasive coming from the guy who advises men to spin plates and date non-exclusively for as long as it takes (if ever) to attain the depth of experience to become a relatively good judge of women’s innate nature, and then if he so chooses, decide how best to pair and parent with her.

The difference in this approach is characteristic of the differences in men and women’s sexual strategies. In Plate Theory, while there is an above board implication of non-exclusivity, there is never an implication that a woman is (or should be) more than a non-exclusive dating opportunity. There should never be any pretense of there being an established, invested relationship as we see in the ‘poly’ concept of women.

In fact this is the primary distinction in non-exclusivity; who’s Frame is the predominant one? In a woman’s ‘poly’ Frame there is a retainership implied in what she believes should be an accepted non-exclusivity.

Ask yourself this, why would a man persist in an ‘open’ relationship? What unique advantages does he get in this arrangement that he couldn’t by simply staying single, practicing Game and spinning plates? Then ask yourself what unique benefits does a woman receive from the same ‘polyamorous’ arrangement?

When you’re contemplating this, try to divorce yourself from the emotional investments and focus on cold hard evolved Hypergamy and how it would function for either sex in that arrangement. Keep in mind that as far as feminized society is concerned, and for all of the triumphalism of independent women, the onus of committed relationship responsibility still defines the worth of a man.

Beta “Manhood”

From MoodyPrism had an interesting observation about the social acceptance of cuckoldry:

I’ve seen men make the mistake of mentioning that they would never raise another man’s child on FaceBook. Shit storms ensued. The usual shaming tactics were trotted out such as manning up. Interestingly enough I’ve heard a woman (on one of those absolutely dreadful day time talk shows such as the View) say that a woman in a relationship with a man with his own kids was a fool for wasting her time on his kids instead of hers. The framework for open cuckoldry is already there, we just need to see the push that makes it completely socially acceptable.

Open Cuckoldry is already in its developmental stage in a social respect. When you consider the Sandbergian plan for Open Hypergamy, the logical implication of this is what’s described here – prioritizing the sexual selection and Hypergamous optimization of women on a societal level while maximally restricting (via social shaming and disapproval) the sexual strategies that would ever serve male interests,…so long as that male is anything less than an optimal Alpha.

Open Cuckoldry has many euphemisms now, but in the Red Pill aware perspective it’s just a matter of time until the social plan of prioritized Hypergamy and outright cuckoldry becomes a social norm.

TuffLuv also presented me with a related question in the last comment thread:

A little too black and white on this stuff Rollo. Sure cuckoldry, as you call it is becoming the norm.. the euphemism being “mixed family”. But I see the majority of instances not being a chick who had the child of some alpha bad boy, or even alpha good boy.. I just see fickle chicks who dumped the baby daddy cuz she either found something better or went looking for something better. The poor dad is just an every day average guy who got his heart broken by the bitch.

So, ponder if you will, if there is a difference between a man raising another man’s child(ren) where the bio father is less alpha (possibly by far) than the new suitor, and a beta man raising the child of one of the woman’s former studs.. I think in the real world you find the former far more than the latter, except in cases where the married or committed woman actually went out and cheated and got pregnant with another man’s child. Maybe that happens a lot but that is not *open* cuckoldry.. That’s classic cuckoldry, and perhaps the only thing that should be called cuckoldry.

I think there should be another designation for the former case. It’s still a bit shameful, but not nearly as much as the latter, eh?

Definitely something to consider, but this situation also implies a change in conditions or context with regard to the woman doing the cuckolding. The fundamentals don’t change – that woman may have bred with a less than optimal man, but the Hypergamous sexual selection impulse still drives her to seek out the Alpha fucks aspect of Hypergamy. She’s Making Up for Missing Out and still she has the provisioning and support she needs in order to pursue the opposite side of the Hypergamous equation she missed out on courtesy of the Beta father.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Novaseeker
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@SJF — Great long comment there. It pretty much perfectly describes how a typical contemporary “equalist” marriage works. I’ve confronted women in equalist marriages about this online, and they basically say: “Well, we discuss major decisions and make them together, we’re a team!”. When I follow with “How many decisions are made where you don’t get your way?”, usually the response is: “Well, it’s not about keeping score like that! I mean, as long as we discuss and agree, why does it matter if almost all of the time he agrees with me? Why are you so paranoid and insecure?”… Read more »

enrique
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SJF:

The “communication” part reminds me of one of Warren Farrells old books, where he notes that women say they want a sensitive man, who communicates (think it was Farrell). Basically an Allan Alda. So what if the man sat on the edge of the couples’ bed, crying and saying he wanted to talk about how he just lost his $50k job.

How many women would dig that? Be all sensitive and understanding to it.

Not Born This Morning
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All these musings are somewhat valid but they can only be taken seriously by men who have committed themselves to the subjugation of the female imperative. Rollo’s analysis is of the social dynamics experienced by a man who allows himself to be trapped within the frame of that subjugation. Just considering theses feminine influences, reflects personal concern of them. That concern cannot be entertained unless the man places personal importance upon them from a relatively self imagined inferior position. Otherwise the man really doesn’t give a shit. The man who is free of this is the man who is indifferent.… Read more »

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@NBTM I get what you mean, but power isn’t just something that happens inside of people’s heads. FI influences have genuine power in our society apart from what you may think or not think about it. I may not agree with (hypothetical example) eminent domain, but that doesn’t make it disappear when the gub’mint comes knockin’ at my door. It’s true that many of the ways the FI has assumed power is through social conditioning, which does exist in your head and is therefore hypothetically reversible. I fully encourage such reversal. But some things you can’t change with a change… Read more »

kfg
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@newlyaloof: ” . . . I’ll be fine in the end.”

This is the important part. The only important part.

kobayashii1681
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@walawala: “i had an “open relationship” with one of my plates. We banged for around a year. She banged other dudes, I banged other girls. I didn’t ask any questions. But once at a party I walked into a store room to toss a beer can and she was blowing a dude I knew.” Hehe! Damn! It is what it is mate…we are men. As RP men especially, we embrace our nature….in essence for me this means that even if I have 10 plates I don’t share any one of them. Men are naturally polygynous, an “open relationship” was just… Read more »

kfg
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“It’s true that many of the ways the FI has assumed power is through social conditioning . . .” Because men can simply overpower women, it is the only way the FI has to assume power. The gub’mint doesn’t come knocking at your door, people do. People who have the FI social conditioning in their head. The greatest enemy of men is men acting for women. Leonidas and his 299 made the conscious decision to fall rather than capitulate. This is the way of men. Xenophon and his 9,999 made the decision to go where they wanted to go and… Read more »

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@IAS “I have that problem – almost all conversations (small talk) are inane to me. That is even with other highly intelligent people. How do you manage not to get bored? Sometimes I just want to get out of there but that would be considered rude etc.” Hmm, I might be something of a natural at this, so I’m having trouble figuring out a step-by-step here. But since I was like you describe until roughly 25yo in many contexts, I think I might be able to take a stab at it. First, not all convos are going to be great.… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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I’ll be mostly MIA for a week here, but one more thing.

You want the female id? Here’s the female id.

https://youtu.be/Py_-3di1yx0

Don’t be mad, USE it.

Forge the Sky
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Fine, I’ll hit this too. ” . . . I’ll be fine in the end.” This is the important part. The only important part. You’ll be dead in the end, regardless. Be fine with that and you’ll be alright. How can you live that will make you fine with being dead in the end? “Because men can simply overpower women, it is the only way the FI has to assume power. The gub’mint doesn’t come knocking at your door, people do. People who have the FI social conditioning in their head. The greatest enemy of men is men acting for… Read more »

kfg
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“You’ll be dead in the end, regardless. Be fine with that and you’ll be alright.”

Indeed. I already addressed that point earlier in this thread, or perhaps in the last.

” . . . a pebble can’t shout down a mountain.”

Yet every pebble was once part of a mountain that got shouted down.

kobayashii1681
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@Rollo:
“‘Humans are naturally conditioned to be monogamous’

I take it you have research that supports this assertion?”
https://imgflip.com/readImage?iid=12730898

Its back….

Forge the Sky
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“Indeed. I already addressed that point earlier in this thread, or perhaps in the last.”

I know. Ya looking for some of that sweet, sweet validation ya old geezer? wink

“Yet every pebble was once part of a mountain that got shouted down.”

A long, long time ago. And in the long run….you know the rest.

kobayashii1681
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@kfg: Addendum: “I have also been privy to women discussing how, rather than fighting over an alpha, they will share him to avoid conflict with each other.”

I concur. This is the default. They’ll fight but when they realise you’re the mountain, they fall in line…to quote a saying in a disney cartoon; “No matter how much the wind howls, the mountain will not bow to it.”

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@Forge The Sky

About time someone references Lana Del Rey on this blog. Her music pretty much spells out female human nature. So much so that at first I thought she was autistic or something. Then I realized she’s probably someone who middling HB5-6s listen to and think they’re being edgy. She makes me laugh, not mad.

kobayashii1681
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@Emily: “‘Sides, if promiscuity was natural, it would not be so risky.”

Typical…conflating polygyny with promiscuity.

kobayashii1681
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Emily:

“Yes Rollo, but polygamy has died out since then. Jesus Himself only talked about monogamous marriages, nothing else.”

Fuck has this got to do with anything?

“Every successful society has been mainly monogamous. A large part of the decline of the West IMO is that much of the population no longer practice monogamous marriages. Instead, most people chase hedonism and sexual desire. So less and less children are born in traditional family units.”

Head-in-sand meme continues fortified by female judeo-christian solipsism.

“And unfortunately, both feminism and the red pill teach their followers to be wary of monogamy.”

http://33.media.tumblr.com/322f94f1a054e7c115c4b9f69f8d6c6e/tumblr_inline_n58cu1nTDD1qan53i.png

kobayashii1681
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@Andy on translating the hamster:

http://img.memecdn.com/whos-laughing-not-me_fb_993284.jpg

kobayashii1681
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“You may not have her love, but you will have her respect.”

GOLD!!!!! For all of us here!

kfg
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“Ya looking for some of that sweet, sweet validation ya old geezer?” God gave me a bike, a pair of Chucks and a Strava account for that. That’s as close to “social media” as I get, but I can’t quite figure out what the thumbs up thingy is for. There aren’t even any fake prizes or anything related and most people seem to award them on a “participation” basis. I don’t need “validation” for doing something I was going to do anyway. It rather smacks of needing to be told what a good boy I am every time I manage… Read more »

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One thing that I got from Rollo’s Man In Demand talk< dedicated now to Sam Botta, is that there is certainly a way for men to supply the needs of the feminine imperative, while still accomplishing the goals of a man's imperative in an inter-sexual relationship. Be a masculine male, hold frame, be red pill aware and be natural at game. But supply the feminine with their needs. After all it is not a zero sum game. Both sexes can win in a LTR. This dovetails into Rollo's essays on red pill parenting. It illustrates what Forge the Sky's father… Read more »

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Yep, Forge, damn. I screwed that code.

Italics should have ended after “If a man never discovers his deepest purpose,……. everyone suffers.

Not Born This Morning
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@ Rollo Unable or unwilling to see outside the FI frame. So any perspective that fails to respect and comply with it is considered false. Stepping outside the frame is too risky. Familiarity breeds a false sense of security. So, reinforce the frame and defend it, lashing out at anyone who speaks from outside of it. Define everything and everyone in terms of the frame because you have become so dependant upon it. The relationship with it is a codependent one. It cannot exist for you without your respect for it yet you define your existence in terms of it.… Read more »

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@NBTM

I have never had such an inspired upward spiral–due to Rollo’s praxeology–in all my life in the last two years. And I’ve had a shit-load of excellent, inspired upward spirals in my life.

Stop your masturbation here.

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Heheh, my four-overtime automobile drive this evening resembles the Pistons-Bulls four overtime basketball game. Apropos of hanging out with watching with the son and my LTR wife who doesn’t have a though of divorcing me tonight. Life is beautiful. And I’m never bored, depressed, in pain, or sorry for myself.

Love you Rollo.

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SJF
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Heh, Keyser. At least he’s got something better to masturbate to.

IliadsTangent
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Setting aisde religious-themed reasons to ignore reality, we arrive at an unfortunate yet logical conclusion regarding women currently. Not only is marriage a fools endeavor, we might even extend that to LTRs as well. Not that the court system is as onerous for LTRs, true. But women have zero incentive to be loyal to ANY man regardless of his value in this matriarchy. Matters have de-evolved to where the LTR escalation is just a scaled up shit test. After some months of easy boning she hits you with the “lets be a couple” speech. The way younger women see it… Read more »

Culum Struan
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YaReally, and the rest of the gang (Forge the Sky, Scribblerg, Dutchman et al): Latest FR from this month’s Going Out Week for me: Interesting night..new wings are great, esp two – one guy my age who has been in Game for ages and an early 20s quasi Natural. There was also a third guy late 40s who is seriously lacking in basic social skills that he needs to figure that out before seduction.. Having good wings made a big difference..only had one beer and I want to keep it at that level – I just notice more and I’m… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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Well, since Nancy has been invoked, this number seems particularly apropos to the thread:

kobayashii1681
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@IliadsTangent: I am concurrent with that message. I can still have an LTR but on my terms without exclusivity, i.e. she shares.

Just like some guy on the Black Phillip Show episode 4 – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AdBB2eb2ZM

From like 1:54:00 thereabouts…that would be ideal for me at the moment

redlight
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@culum

“No, I’m distracted I’m checking out your tits” and it was such a rush to see her (very pretty blue) eyes go completely wide as the emotional spike hit her and she was like “Oh you guys! You’re being such men!”.

There is a gap in your FR, since it doesn’t explain at all how this ended (maybe ego protection?). Somehow you transferred from a DTF girl that you wanted to rip the clothes off and she wanted you to rip her clothes off, to a drunk 30 year old.

A Definite Beta Guy
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Just to re-emphasize a Rollo Comment:

Successful societies are based off of Patriarchal Monogamy.

Not “equalitarian” monogamy.

The two aren’t the same.

redlight
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@culum

how do I pull these girls and escalate without talking?

normally Ya links to this Gambler video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-unuqF4uklE

basically its the eyes, closeness, and let the subcomms do the talking. Once you get her bedroom eyes, its lead her out.

Forge the Sky
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Well I’m on a tiny phone w spotty Internet here but I had to give culum props for the FR. Great stuff, you’re having fun and analyzing. I’m watching SHIFT as well and it seems great so far. First off, redlight is correct. Not much info about how some of these really open sets are ending. Figure out the sticking point to the close and it sounds like you’d have some of these in the bag. Second, and this is kinda keyboard jockeying since I still suck at the later-evening close, it really does seem to be mostly reading subcomms… Read more »

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Update on Monk Mode Redux. I realize it’s unnecessary. I’m not in the place I was at at 9 months ago. But the need to internalize and make real all that I’ve learned here is all the more present to me. Surprisingly, the angle that has me digging more deeply is gaming young hotties. My realization that I was playing a “soft sugar Daddy” game was kind of shocking. It was an ego buffer that still covered up that I’m not “the prize”. Even more to the point, it uncovered a deep sense of my own shortcomings and shame about… Read more »

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OK, so here’s me going off on a ramble based on some perceptions in this thread. I surely can’t do short. I’ve tried. Once or twice. It’s a psychological pressure of speech defect. I’m just using this space for masculine self improvement by thinking out loud and to exercise for my fingers.: Rollo wrote this in the Evolution of Game Game Of these concepts the one I return to the most frequently is that of Game. My editor asks, “Just what is Game?” Throughout the upcoming book, this blog, and virtually every major manosphere writer’s blog there’s a constant presumption… Read more »

kfg
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“Low agreeableness personalities are often competitive or challenging people, which can be seen as argumentative or untrustworthy.”

By high agreeableness personalities, because they are also high fear. This would appear to be a paradox, until you realize that high agreeableness people are low defense people and thus constantly in a state of vulnerability, always getting whacked by shit they “never saw coming.”

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@rollo at 11:32 pm remarked about this comment:

You all are beta … The fact that you are even searching for answers and direction on how to “handle” women and that there’s an entire philosophy surrounding it proves that we are controlling the Game.

which means Just Get It:

http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

Laws:
1) Female commentators will always be examples of the points made here
2) Rollo is always right

Glengarry
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Family court: and that’s why I don’t shit on MRAs.

IAS
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Given that people are helping out NewlyAloof with good advice… I’ve been upping the alpha since a couple of months ago. My wife is probably PMSing today (I’m tracking the cycle and it is a few days before the Red Tide). According to SJF (with whom I shared some extra details) I should bring in comfort but she has been denying sex and I’ve been doing what needs to be done in terms of logistics. Today she outright insulted me to my face (not the first time) because after some minor disrespect when I was helping her, I told her… Read more »

Evolver
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Open hypergamy on SNL
https://youtu.be/Uxg5tPBWOmI

SJF
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@IAS Funny, I just got instructed on how to load the dishwasher (don’t put delicate glasses right next to each other on the top shelf–alternate them with plastic). (actually gave me an excuse to go and be alone in the library after the family guests just left to recharge my introvert batteries). And damn, we have another holiday party to go to tonight. Yes, I also walked away and told her she can finish cleaning up. Yes, I got mildly/moderately emotional as if I resented it. Merely a gambit on my part. These are simple shit tests. Treat them as… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Been out of town vacationing with another couple. Got a party to go to tonight. Will update later. Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.

zip
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@ redlight

so true. Womenz in all their entitled “logic counterarguments” subconsciously always confirm what Rollo is teaching us here.

They just don’t get it.

SJF
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@IAS

Another thought. Keep Andy’s maxim in mind. (Well said Andy! @December 18th, 2015 at 11:39 am)

I wouldn’t obsess about dread her disrespecting you and not wanting to have sex with you too much.You might want to get her to the point where she LIKES you again first.

Heehee, easy for me to say, right? (Disrespecting you and not wanting to have sex is serious business. Hopefully she’s not sub-communicating contempt. If that’s happening you really have to sharpen your married-man game skills.)

SJF
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@ASDgamer

“Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.”

Funny, that just happened to me at the grocery store this morning by a HB6 round about my daughter’s age. Caught me off guard and I was non-reactive. I really should have engaged and approached (to liven game skills) even if I didn’t have any sexual interest. And if perchance I did engage, the conversation would be all about her, not much about me.

Dutchman
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@Evolver

Holy shit that’s hilarious. It wouldn’t have been NEARLY as funny five years ago.

Yollo Comanche
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@Everyone I just saw Star Wars. This movie was better than I thought it would be. From a red pill perspective I feel like it threw me off some. Plot holes aside, and there are some HUGE ones, I expected a major picture to be much more “strong independent woman”. Ant-Man seemed MUCH more fem-centric by comparison. STILL lots of equalism at play there. It almost feels like it was made for me…..and that’s a bit of a shock. Maybe the older generation is taking too long to die off for them to just shove their whole fem-centric agenda onto… Read more »

Novaseeker
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Haven’t seen it, but I thought it was basic Strong-Independent-Female-Jedi with a kind of cowardly black guy whom she gets with kind of thing.

kfg
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kfg
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“Maybe the older generation is taking too long to die off for them to just shove their whole fem-centric agenda onto us.”

What’s funny is, the younger generation of third wave feminism, the only kind that counts right now, thinks that Betty Friedan showed polite behaviour in dying and wish that Gloria Steinem and Germaine Greer would show the same courtesy.

Culum Struan
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Thanks guys – the feedback is really useful. @redlight: I was trying not to indulge my penchant for verbosity in my comments and not list every detail lol. The 19/20 year old interaction was funny, because although I had some IOIs from the 7, it was the 7.5 who kept touching me repeatedly and introduced herself to me and stuff, while the 7 kept doing it to my wing. And my wing wanted the classic All American blonde 7.5! But it was so early in the night that I let them go as Julien recommends (albeit without number closing as… Read more »

redlight
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@culum

But it was so early in the night that I let them go as Julien recommends (albeit without number closing as he says to do – stupid)

reflect back, why didn’t you number close? You are not stupid, so why?

btw, I suggest you try to escalating all the way, with outcome independence, and leave retreating to later

redlight
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SNL just did the best FI shaming skit ever, Meet Your Second Wife

that is the FI shaming men for marrying younger women

I guess one or both of Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, the hosts, are a little concern about getting older

I’ll post it tomorrow

Klem
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@culum Honestly, don’t sweat too much the “tempo” of the night From reading your interaction with the 7 and 7,5, it sound more like an excuse your subconcious gave you in order not to escalate (and possibly risking rejection). Who cares if its 11pm instead of 12pm, just escalate, they were touching you, MASSIVE IOI!! Also, keep in mind that you should try to isolate as much as you can once you have initial attraction (like “lets go for a smoke” and you take her by the hand). Isolation will make escalation MUCH easier. Also, remember what Julien said about… Read more »

Yollo Comanche
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@Forge the Sky

I notice in that Lana Del Rey video that her tire-swing is the size of a sky scraper and you can’t tell where the fuck it’s swinging from.

Much like women seem to think there should just be men around for her to exploit or fuck and make “her darkest desires” a reality.

Not with my hard-earned money you wont, princess.

scribblerg
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@Klem – “I feel like you’re trying too much to be a “good game student”” – hit me between the eyes. No FRs worth sharing as last night was so dead in my town, decided to plant at a new venue and get to know the two hot bartenders who work Fri/Sat as a team for future gaming at that place. We have foundations in 3 bars now, so will keep working it. Thurs night I crashed and burned badly and gave up, lol. Did an FR with SJF, bottom line was my mental state was shit and I was… Read more »

redlight
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and now the winner of the 2015 Best FI Shaming Award, the skit Meet Your Second Wife:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJEAGd1bQuc

(at some point NBC might have this taken off youtube)

theasdgamer
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@ Blax Women drive the act of sex. Men take the blame/responsibility. Practically every woman I have ever bedded has actually made the decision/selection. See, I think that this is a FI-goggles way of explaining what goes on. If men are sex-initiators and women are sex-responders, then it will seem like they make the decision. Actually, we men make the first decision about whom we want to approach and we might approach several women in a club or have several possibilities that we are pursuing in our networks. Certainly, women have a say in whether or not they will have… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Yollo Comanche: “The FI is everywhere, right? My red pill lens was going off right and left on this movie.”

I don’t think it’s possible to watch anything nowadays without a red pill lens.

kobayashii1681
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Guys,

Just watched this mini doc on Donald Trump: http://www.aetv.com/shows/who-is-donald-trump

Remove the political stuff, and I dunno, I think that dude acts RP as fuck, whether it’s business, women…he doesn’t give two fucks about media commentators, or being PC.

I got a lot of RP cues. Dunno, would like to know what the lads think….

scribblerg
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@Blax – It’s well known that women choose and men compete for that choice. However, men are usually triggering that selection by their own actions. There is a consequence to the difference in sex drives between men and women as well, in the sense that it results in men adapting and behaving and evolving to win that competition much more readily than women do. This even shows up in genetics, as male genetics mutate/evolve 1/3 faster than female. It’s also a relative game.Let me try a thought experiment. Imagine you were in a setting where there were only 100 Blaximus’s?… Read more »

Roused
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An interesting time at a Christmas party last night hosted by a friend of my GF. Good mix of people, especially the married women in their mid-30s. Within a few minutes of entering and being introduced to a few people met a tall HB7 wearing a short dress, cleavage showing and openly flirty. My GF saw this right away and since we were all having a good time I didn’t worry about it too much. Found out tall girl’s husband was a partner at a company I recently did a small bit of business with. Wanting to meet him I… Read more »

SJF
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@Roused Way to go man. “My intent was not to deliberately piss off GF, but my behavior and how I felt after dropping off GF with no night night kiss kiss was that I had taken a dose of anti-Oneitis medicine and had pretty much ignored her shit test attitude.” I truly think that gambit will pay off for you. Way to keep Frame. I had a similar situation last night. Lose an insignificant small battle and win the war. #01 – We are at war. Nothing you want to do gets in the way of your relationship, it is… Read more »

scribblerg
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Trump is a “faux alpha” many real ways. He beds models who overtly marry him for his money and then move on with a pre-determined payoff. That’s Beta as fuck. He acts like a self-made success, but in fact, started out with a huge real estate holding he inherited. He constantly brags about his wealth and shouts about his value at the top of his lungs and this strikes me as compensating for an underlying insecurity about himself. Let’s talk about his real-estate “success”. The continuous rise in U.S. real estate prices is almost entirely due to the asset inflationary… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Scribblerg: I think mixed bag is correct. And yes, maybe there’s over compensation….but I think what I also took was the way Larry King et al were referring to him as “just a man”, especially when they tried to make it look like him having hot chics around him was trying too hard.
Any other candidate would be loathe to even admit that they liked younger hotter women, and that it was natural to do so.
Things like this is what I caught.

I hear you though…

KL
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Please comment on this man-shaming: “There’s the guy who seems the gentleman, who disappears after I tell him I’m not ready to have sex on the 3rd date.”

http://www.artparasites.com/the-ugly-side-of-being-a-single-attractive-and-available-heterosexual-woman-2/

kfg
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kfg
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“The carefully tailored suits to hide his obesity . . .”

. . . stopped working when he got to the point where his face became obese.

Sun Wukong
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@KL

TL;DR: “Please make being a slut completely safe. Please tell Alphas to start submitting to my demands instead of expecting me to do anything to earn them.”

Typical drivel of the carousel rider looking to make the lane change.

kobayashii1681
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As we head towards the flash point…

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/dec/18/i-am-not-attracted-to-my-husband-i-love-him-like-a-brother?CMP=twt_gu

Open hypergamy and cuckoldry will become increasingly conspicuous….but so will the reality (red pill). As more men read and go through shit like this…they will grow that splinter, in their minds, driving them mad, it is this feeling that brings us here…

Emily
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@scribblerg
Lol Trump is a ‘faux alpha?’

I love how Dan Bilzerian is your model for an ‘alpha male.’ Meanwhile Mr.Trump, who is far more successful may just be our next president, is a beta. Mind telling me how that works? I would think that being an alpha would have a lot to do with money, fame and power.

But apparently, the ONLY mark of success for you is how many sluts you can sleep with. Wow, it’s like we’re still in high school.

theasdgamer
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@ Cave, newly Also, if she freaks out and decides she wants you around, beware of her getting pregnant to keep you. Frankly, just about any dick can get her pregnant. Doesn’t have to be newly’s. Give her lots of comfort and also a strong frame. You want to keep her out of divorce court. Maybe you can talk her into doing a divorce kit. Getting a strong frame means having options. Dread. Without a strong frame, your woman WILL abuse you/frivorce rape you. But you can’t let her get ahold of incriminating evidence, including text messages and facebook stuff.… Read more »

runway
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@ KL

You got there just before me that was on my FB feed this morning absolute disgust as the mincing manboobery in the comments that followed.

theasdgamer
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@ newly since I still want to work things out, I can use something similar to the “Boyfriend Destroyer” routine, but call it the “Wife Divorcing Me Destroyer” routine where I confide in her mother and her aunt and basically tell them that I’ve tried to work things out, I’ve put up with living in separate rooms for 8 years, I’ve put up with her losing her fire for me and basically abandoning me emotionally all this time, but I still want to work things out. I’ll explain how women will see this, including your wife’s relatives. tl;dr You’re a… Read more »

scribblerg
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@Aww, Emily, aren’t you a precious little snowflake…I wonder though, do you realize what an imbecile you are? Just checking. You missed that I also said Dan Bilzerian is an asshole. But he also made it through U.S. Navy Seals BUDS training twice (got discharged because of insubordination). He also plays competitive, high stakes poker. He’s also a huge, strong man with a physique you would masturbate to. Even more to the point – you apparently didn’t even read what I wrote about Trump above, I said he was a mixed bag and showed why I thought that with some… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@newlyaloof, @Andy

I wouldn’t obsess about dread too much. You might want to get her to the point where she LIKES you again first.

Let’s fix this:

@newlyaloof

I wouldn’t obsess about dread too much. You might want to get her to the point where she RESPECTS you again first.

Roused
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Took a break from hanging Christmas lights to drink a Christmas Ale and a bit of reading. Was looking for Rollo’s Iron Rules and found this instead:

http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/03/the-rush/

Guy dumps his cheating girlfriend live on the radio. So fucking great to hear that play out. Props to Rollo for posting that 3 years ago, shit resonates for a loooong time. Luckily the dude that did the dumping found out she was a cheating ho before the proposal. Not sure I would call it revenge as it was justice. Revenge would have been the dude fucking his ex-GF’s sister or BFF.

theasdgamer
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@ Pellaeon To me though, it seems like a lot of guys are in denial of just how much they want to bond emotionally with a chick. As Rollo says, men are the true Romantics. “Yeah man, I just want to fuck pussy. Screw emotions and all that bullshit!” And yet…they’re actions say otherwise. For men, emotions can be a trap, so saying “Screw emotions” is in men’s best interests in sexual matters. We’re not saying that we are unemotional–men probably experience more emotional stuff than women do–but that it’s not in our best interests to focus on our emotions.… Read more »

redlight
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@roused

note that most of stuff like that on the radio is scripted, due to FCC regs

with your current GF, did you two have sex before the party, or was this a sexless date?

theasdgamer
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@ IAS

I don’t have kids and the lack of respect bothers me more than the lack of sex, although that also bothers me.

Work on your frame so that you can lol when you get a lack of respect. Then backturn her. Go do something fun that you enjoy doing.

Blaximus
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@ASD, ” See, I think that this is a FI-goggles way of explaining what goes on. If men are sex-initiators and women are sex-responders, then it will seem like they make the decision. Actually, we men make the first decision about whom we want to approach and we might approach several women in a club or have several possibilities that we are pursuing in our networks. Certainly, women have a say in whether or not they will have sex with you. But we men also have a say. How many whales have you bedded? None? I thought so.” I really… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ SJF “Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.” Funny, that just happened to me at the grocery store this morning by a HB6 round about my daughter’s age. Very cool! It’s encouraging when young broads give us old farts attention. The HB9 was a passenger in a truck driven the wrong way by a HB7–both were mid 20s, I’d guess. I started watching the whole clusterfuck with amusement sitting in my pickup waiting for them to clear out of the drive so that I could enter. The HB7… Read more »

Dutchman
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@roused

That video was good shit. Rollo is dead on the article when he asks “How did it make you feel viscerally when she was weeping. Even KNOWING the situation, it’s still a gut punch to hear a girl cry like that. I didn’t feel bad for THAT girl but it immediately hit me that was powerful stuff.

Roused
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@Redlight, Sexless and we both knew it probably would be going into it. We both had things to do with our kids before. Afterwards a bj might have happened in the car had I been Gamed her. When we left my mindset was to be done with her for the night, sex with her wasn’t on my mind. Ignored her all day today, she just texted asking what her daddy was doing and how my day went. Will wait a bit to reply. Yes about radio scripting, but I doubt the story was made up. I’ve worked closely with several… Read more »

Dutchman
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@Roused

Just curious about the dynamics at play here. Is your girlfriend similar age/hotness to the tall chick?

Roused
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GF is 39, Tall was 36 and had a good 6″ more in height than GF. GF is cuter and has much more sex appeal all around. Tall one had legs that never ended. I’ve openly stated to her many times I prefer short skirts/dresses and tall women. I’m 6’3.” She knows I will enjoy the view if there is something to look at in a skirt. In this case my interaction was much more than just looking.

scribblerg
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And then there is this, a fight between Anthony Cumia (of Opie and Anthony, idiocy i don’t listen to) and his girlfriend – she periscopes it. I don’t know what to think she doesn’t really seem that scared to me…

//cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/591531/sp/59153100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/6740162/partner_id/591531?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player_1413478522&entry_id=0_kwjvpra1

newlyaloof
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@ASD: “You still don’t understand women at all.” For you to type that makes me feel as though you didn’t read all of what I wrote, or you’re just being a keyboard douche. I understand women quite well these past two years under red pill. And I was never a blue pill pushover even in middle school age. Everything was good until kids popped out. What I don’t understand at all is the divorce landscape and a woman at the point that she would leave if not for kids. But after some timely posts from YaR, Scribb and others, for… Read more »

Emily
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@scribbler First, can you stop using the term solipsism incorrectly? Rene Descartes is rolling in his grave. It’s just that.. I find it odd that terpers don’t really respect wealth and status as much as how many sluts you have in your harem. True, if we are talking about men who improved themselves from the ground up to be ‘alphas’ then Mr.Trump isn’t the best example, but neither is Dan Bilzerian. His father also gave him a lot of money. He gambled with it and made a lot more. Great, he got lucky, and now he’s rich and is putting… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Field Report: tl;dr I avoided two cockblocks and disarmed a mateguarding attempt. This shows a vast improvement in my real-time skills. I’m developing workarounds for my real-time autism issues. WoooooHoooooo! Cockblocks were attempted with three different girls last night, lol. HB6, HB7, HB8. I danced two or three dances in a row with HB6, who I had just met last night, then out come her friends to hijack her away from me, lol. I was about to just let it happen, then something inside of me said, “No way.” HB6 was lasering me as if to say, “Rescue me.” The… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ newly For you to type that makes me feel as though you didn’t read all of what I wrote, or you’re just being a keyboard douche. Ok, I could have been gentler, but you still have a ways to go understanding women or you wouldn’t have considered trying your Wife Destroyer Game. I’m sure you have made progress. Gratz! I’m more blunt than anyone here, but I wasn’t just trying to put you down/destroy your ego. I could have told you to try it and report results, lol. That would have been an ultimate douche move. Compared with that,… Read more »

Blaximus
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@scribblerg @Blax – It’s well known that women choose and men compete for that choice. However, men are usually triggering that selection by their own actions. There is a consequence to the difference in sex drives between men and women as well, in the sense that it results in men adapting and behaving and evolving to win that competition much more readily than women do. This even shows up in genetics, as male genetics mutate/evolve 1/3 faster than female. Glenn I agree with this. As I’ve mentioned before, excuse my clumsy attempts at explanation. Men trigger the selection, women generally… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ Blax Thanks, buddy. Lots of good stuff in your comment. I’ve interacted with a few HB9s. All were very nice to me. I even banged one of them. HB6s are often nice at first, then shitty to me later since I’m not too interested in them. HB7s can go either way. HB8s are usually nice to me. One HB10 was very nice to me and complimentary. She was looking for marriage, but didn’t realize that I was married. HB10 was out with her church friends as wings. I wasn’t looking for more than dancing with her, barring a brief… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Redlight and @Klem – thanks guys. Similar points I think. Redlight – why didn’t I escalate? You’re right I think – just a form of ego protection. I didn’t have to eject the conversation when I did – I could have stayed in a bit longer even at the beginning and easily isolated the 7.5 (the 7 had already left, so it was just my wing and I with the 7.5) and tried for the number close after a few more mins of comfort, even though it was early. But it was easier to just be like “Umm..well, I’ll see… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Roused – good work dude. That read to me like a lot of my own FRs..similar sort of writing style and manner of noticing IOIs and reactions. It sounds like you had a good evening and I agree with the other comments. One thing I would ask (because it is one of my key weaknesses): what is your Intent in these situations? Do you want to bang other chicks? Do you want to just flirt for validation? Are you trying to develop specific Game skills by doing this? Which ones? Like what are you trying to achieve? You’ll do so… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@Scribblerg – re working with a wing – see if you can google the old “Wing Rules” they used to teach on the Mystery Method seminar (when it was still called tha t- before they changed the name to Love Systems). I think it’s pretty much what you want. This is assuming both of you are actually sarging – like he’s not some buddy come with you to knock back beers and watch you sarge. I’m sure YaReally will be along with many more nuances but key points from memory: 1. Whoever opens the set owns the set (the other… Read more »

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