Open Relationships

Functional_cuckoldry

During the last post’s comment thread I sort of went back in time to when I’d first heard the term ‘open relationship’. It was back in the mid 80s and I’d heard it being proposed to me by my first girlfriend when I was around 19 and she’d grown bored of my predictable Beta perfection. Needless to say this moment preceded my semi-pro rock star 20s and the natural Alpha-ness I matured into. So at the time I was thoroughly steeped in the dutiful Beta conditioning of believing that ‘going steady’ monogamy and only banging the ONE girl was the right thing to do.

I also believed that women’s motives were reliably based on what they said rather than what their behaviors implied (and their contradicting behaviors were the result of being confused by nebulous ‘society’s’ unfair expectations of women). So it was with a great deal of confusion that I was forced to wrap my head around exactly why my ‘girlfriend’ would want to retain me as an intimate orbiter while she pursued other guys to bang and become potential intimates with.

She suggested an “open relationship” – all the same non-sexual intimate expectations with no expectation of reciprocal sexual fidelity –  an idea she’d no doubt been familiarized with from her former hippie ‘free love‘ parents. And not unlike the simpering Beta in today’s cartoon, I too was uncomfortable with sharing my 18 year old girlfriend with any other guy. Looking back it was quite the conflict to my 19 year old, Beta conditioned mind. On one hand I was taught to respect the independence of a woman and didn’t want to be the guy to tell her what she could or couldn’t do, but I also bought into the Disneyesque sacrifice all for true love narrative.

I suppose now I owe her some gratitude since my rejecting this “I want to play the field” episode was instrumental in setting me on a course for my Alpha 20s and the “don’t give a fuck” attitude that unintentionally served me so well with women then.

Today there are cutesy synonyms like ‘poly’ to describe a woman who believes it’s in her multiple lovers’, as well as her own, mutual interests that they obligate themselves to what really amounts to her attention, emotional and sexual needs independent of each guy who fulfills that role for her. The problem arises in the degree of investment those men believe that an above board ‘poly’ woman will be able to appreciate. I had this situation presented in last weeks’ comments:

Why does an open relationship favor women and not men? It’s only cuckoldry if you don’t approve of it. If you agree to an open relationship for both of you, then it seems like an equal footing.

The cuckoldry Devil is in the details; and in this case that Devil is in the perceived ‘agreement’ and who’s doing the agreeing. Contemporary Open Cuckoldry and the social conventions of ‘free love’ era faux-idealisms in ‘open relationships’ work in tandem today to promote the sexual selection strategy of women’s Hypergamy.

Cuckoldry, in its most visceral, Hypergamous sense, favors women because there is no margin for error on a man’s part. Bear in mind that an ‘open’ relationship only serves a woman’s sexual imperative because she benefits from comfort, rapport, security and likely provisioning of the primary man with whom she’s come to this agreement with. In all honesty I’ve rarely met a guy in an open relationship who wasn’t a Beta at the mercy of his wife or LTR’s proliferative phase, Alpha Fucks, Hypergamous impulses.

Most of them understand their optionless condition and resign themselves to the women they’ve committed to, wanting to, and acting on fucking more suitably, conventionally, masculine men than themselves. Arguably, most stay at home fathers fall into a sort of contextual form of an open relationship for much of the same reasons even if their wives are only getting a vicarious Alpha ‘fix’ by working among higher status men who haven’t abdicated on their burden of performance by adopting the feminine support role.

What About Those Assholes?

Now I am aware of the often domineering men who insist on fucking women outside of their commitment to a monogamous lover. I also understand that the reverse can and does apply. I’m also aware that when a man’s SMV exceeds a woman’s it places her into a similar position to that of the Beta men I’ve just described.

Bear in mind that the issue I’m on about here isn’t one of fault, but rather how an effectively polygamous relationship serves the interests of either genders’ sexual strategy.

It’s vitally important to consider how both of these ‘open relationship’ formats are popularly perceived in a cultural context. For a woman, being ‘poly’ may hold some stigma to it. She may be considered a de facto slut in some sense – remember she’s maintaining the pretense that she’s committed to one or more men, rather than a booty call where there is no pretense of exclusivity – but the social (not to mention legal assurance) efforts being made to ‘normalize’ what amounts to her cuckoldry of that ‘primary’ partner is reinforced because it seemingly serves as some kind of new-age feminine-primary family unit. And after all, he too is ostensibly free to exercise his sexual strategy in this arrangement. A win-win, right?

In the case where the ‘primary’ partner is the woman and the high SMV man leaves her no choice but to adopt his sexual strategy as the dominant one in the relationship, that ‘open relationship’ is considered dysfunctional and socially frowned upon. He’s a cad or a philanderer at best, and an abusive self-absorbed inconsiderate monster at worst. Reverse the sexes in today’s cartoon and imagine what the feminine-primary social response might be.

Force Fitting Sexual Strategies

What we’re observing in a modern interpretation of ‘poly’ or ‘open relationships’ is a conflict between the normalization of unilateral control of sexual strategy within a monogamous relationship context. I know that sounds like a mouthful but consider…

The Cardinal Rule of sexual strategies:
For one gender’s sexual strategy to succeed the other gender must compromise or abandon their own.

No doubt many Blue and Purple Pill readers will (in the interests of “equality”) remind us that there was a time when it was socially expected of (high socio-economic status) men to “keep” a mistress (or use prostitutes) as well as a wife, or even have many wives. All socio-economic Apex Fallacies aside, this being an outlier rather than a norm, those arrangements still put that man into a position of maintaining support for both (all) women in order to satisfy his sexual appetites as well as the relative wellbeing of them.

In the modern instance where western(ized) women are a protected class in a feminine-primary social order, the priority of sexual strategy changes hands. I cover this exchange in the Adaptation series of posts, but to paraphrase, Free Love, open relationships or now, ‘poly’, has really become an increasingly acceptable methodology for women to optimize both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy while still enjoying a semblance of the security that old order monogamy provides for women’s emotional needs.

Now lets review The Cardinal Rule of Relationships:

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

In an economic state where women are less financially dependent on (or autonomous from) men, the Alpha Fucks aspect of Hypergamy will take priority. That’s not to say the Beta comfort and rapport appeal becomes worthless as an emotional investment, but it’s less likely for a woman to need to prioritize that aspect while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect. Beta comfort and security have a value, but that value requires less urgency than pursing Alpha sexual experience (functional breeding opportunities).

Consider the poor Beta symp in the cartoon. That caricature is of a Beta conditioned man struggling with the Old Set of Books, with the old order ruleset expectations from a woman who will never recognize them because she’s never needed to. It’s his investment in her, his necessitousness, his optionlessness and his inability to see it’s the source of his frustration and his anxiety. He needs her, expects more from her, than she needs him.

The lie inherent in the humor of the cartoon is that women possess the capacity to compartmentalize their emotional investments. The Medium is the Message; women can only compartmentalize their feelings for men they don’t see as Hypergamously optimal men (i.e. Alpha, higher than their own SMV men). For men who embody that optimization, women simply cannot afford to feel anything more than submission (a submission to a dominant man they innately desire) to him and are thus unable to consider anything like compartmentalizing their emotions for him.

And from Schedules of Mating:

For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she’s able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring’s survival with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

‘Open’ relationships, and the social narrative reinforcement of the concept, are one such adaptation to facilitate this methodology.

All of this may seem a bit pervasive coming from the guy who advises men to spin plates and date non-exclusively for as long as it takes (if ever) to attain the depth of experience to become a relatively good judge of women’s innate nature, and then if he so chooses, decide how best to pair and parent with her.

The difference in this approach is characteristic of the differences in men and women’s sexual strategies. In Plate Theory, while there is an above board implication of non-exclusivity, there is never an implication that a woman is (or should be) more than a non-exclusive dating opportunity. There should never be any pretense of there being an established, invested relationship as we see in the ‘poly’ concept of women.

In fact this is the primary distinction in non-exclusivity; who’s Frame is the predominant one? In a woman’s ‘poly’ Frame there is a retainership implied in what she believes should be an accepted non-exclusivity.

Ask yourself this, why would a man persist in an ‘open’ relationship? What unique advantages does he get in this arrangement that he couldn’t by simply staying single, practicing Game and spinning plates? Then ask yourself what unique benefits does a woman receive from the same ‘polyamorous’ arrangement?

When you’re contemplating this, try to divorce yourself from the emotional investments and focus on cold hard evolved Hypergamy and how it would function for either sex in that arrangement. Keep in mind that as far as feminized society is concerned, and for all of the triumphalism of independent women, the onus of committed relationship responsibility still defines the worth of a man.

Beta “Manhood”

From MoodyPrism had an interesting observation about the social acceptance of cuckoldry:

I’ve seen men make the mistake of mentioning that they would never raise another man’s child on FaceBook. Shit storms ensued. The usual shaming tactics were trotted out such as manning up. Interestingly enough I’ve heard a woman (on one of those absolutely dreadful day time talk shows such as the View) say that a woman in a relationship with a man with his own kids was a fool for wasting her time on his kids instead of hers. The framework for open cuckoldry is already there, we just need to see the push that makes it completely socially acceptable.

Open Cuckoldry is already in its developmental stage in a social respect. When you consider the Sandbergian plan for Open Hypergamy, the logical implication of this is what’s described here – prioritizing the sexual selection and Hypergamous optimization of women on a societal level while maximally restricting (via social shaming and disapproval) the sexual strategies that would ever serve male interests,…so long as that male is anything less than an optimal Alpha.

Open Cuckoldry has many euphemisms now, but in the Red Pill aware perspective it’s just a matter of time until the social plan of prioritized Hypergamy and outright cuckoldry becomes a social norm.

TuffLuv also presented me with a related question in the last comment thread:

A little too black and white on this stuff Rollo. Sure cuckoldry, as you call it is becoming the norm.. the euphemism being “mixed family”. But I see the majority of instances not being a chick who had the child of some alpha bad boy, or even alpha good boy.. I just see fickle chicks who dumped the baby daddy cuz she either found something better or went looking for something better. The poor dad is just an every day average guy who got his heart broken by the bitch.

So, ponder if you will, if there is a difference between a man raising another man’s child(ren) where the bio father is less alpha (possibly by far) than the new suitor, and a beta man raising the child of one of the woman’s former studs.. I think in the real world you find the former far more than the latter, except in cases where the married or committed woman actually went out and cheated and got pregnant with another man’s child. Maybe that happens a lot but that is not *open* cuckoldry.. That’s classic cuckoldry, and perhaps the only thing that should be called cuckoldry.

I think there should be another designation for the former case. It’s still a bit shameful, but not nearly as much as the latter, eh?

Definitely something to consider, but this situation also implies a change in conditions or context with regard to the woman doing the cuckolding. The fundamentals don’t change – that woman may have bred with a less than optimal man, but the Hypergamous sexual selection impulse still drives her to seek out the Alpha fucks aspect of Hypergamy. She’s Making Up for Missing Out and still she has the provisioning and support she needs in order to pursue the opposite side of the Hypergamous equation she missed out on courtesy of the Beta father.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

709 comments on “Open Relationships

  1. “It’s true that many of the ways the FI has assumed power is through social conditioning . . .”

    Because men can simply overpower women, it is the only way the FI has to assume power. The gub’mint doesn’t come knocking at your door, people do. People who have the FI social conditioning in their head. The greatest enemy of men is men acting for women.

    Leonidas and his 299 made the conscious decision to fall rather than capitulate. This is the way of men.

    Xenophon and his 9,999 made the decision to go where they wanted to go and fuck up anybody who got in their way. This is also the way of men.

    And just in case the Anabasis was just a morality tale, Chesty Puller did it again.

    “All right, they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us, they outnumber us 29:1 …they can’t get away from us this time. There are not enough Chinamen in the world to stop a fully armed Marine regiment from going where ever they want to go. Don’t forget that you’re First Marines! Not all the Communists in hell can overrun you!”

  2. @IAS

    “I have that problem – almost all conversations (small talk) are inane to me. That is even with other highly intelligent people. How do you manage not to get bored? Sometimes I just want to get out of there but that would be considered rude etc.”

    Hmm, I might be something of a natural at this, so I’m having trouble figuring out a step-by-step here. But since I was like you describe until roughly 25yo in many contexts, I think I might be able to take a stab at it.

    First, not all convos are going to be great. So just try the best you can, you aren’t always doing something wrong if an individual talk doesn’t go well.

    Second, when I’m talking with someone I’m expecting them to be interesting, so I pay close attention to what they’re saying and how they’re saying it – constantly screening for underlying dynamics – does this person seem nervous when they say X? Hmm, wonder if they’re ambivalent about that belief, let’s see what’s under that. How to do that….oh, there’s a slight opening here about topic Y that I can use to bring things back around to X from a different angle that depicts it critically, maybe I can scare out their true feelings that way…It’s not a conscious process, I’m just trying to figure out what makes someone tick. It’s not even usually that complicated lol, you just direct the convo to things people seem to have feelings about (though pull back if you get a defensive reaction typically, unless you know them well or are really confident). A lot of that is nonverbals. I use fairly strong eye contact. This draws out a lot of emotions in people. They tend to say that I just ‘get’ them because of this. It also tends to really get me in the moment. Human social instincts engage when you really throw yourself towards people’s nonverbals, just like your sexual instincts get activated when you’re around a hot woman who’s showing signs of attraction, and if you just can let go of your bad programming you’d ‘just get’ what to do with her instinctively. Empathy and engagement are instinctive processes, you just need to learn how to get them turned on when you need them and not stand in their way.

    Bad programming is another thing though. Smart introverts tend to have all sorts of defensive programming when it comes to conversing. They constantly feel like they need to prove themselves, and the uncertainty of social interactions is unfamiliar to them. Add onto that a subconscious evaluation of yourself as being ‘low status’ (like, you can think you’re an amazing person with all sorts of cool abilities, but socially you can still think you’re the bottom of the pole – don’t step on any toes, don’t put yourself out there, hunch into your own space, don’t make too much physical contact with others, look away from eye contact….) and you have a person who will act stoic and quiet and rationalize that they’re ‘bored’ rather than simply afraid to let themselves feel and engage.

    This isn’t easy to change, but that’s a lot of what the manosphere and pickup is about. You can do some things with mindset, and I’ve had some success with reprocessing and reframing old memories to subconsciously see myself in a more bold light, but ultimately reference experiences are king here. You won’t get anywhere without them. Practice pushing things towards open-ness a bit in circumstances where you are high-status/socially proofed and build from there.

    This might all seem like a drag, but it’s all VERY relevant to success with women, career, and basic interpersonal interactions. Well worthwhile.

  3. Fine, I’ll hit this too.

    ” . . . I’ll be fine in the end.”
    This is the important part. The only important part.

    You’ll be dead in the end, regardless. Be fine with that and you’ll be alright.

    How can you live that will make you fine with being dead in the end?

    “Because men can simply overpower women, it is the only way the FI has to assume power. The gub’mint doesn’t come knocking at your door, people do. People who have the FI social conditioning in their head. The greatest enemy of men is men acting for women.”

    Good point, but I can only change the programming in my head directly. And give materials to help other people change their own programming, with a fairly low rate of success. I do that here and IRL, but a pebble can’t shout down a mountain. Best it can hope for is to start an avalanche.

  4. “You’ll be dead in the end, regardless. Be fine with that and you’ll be alright.”

    Indeed. I already addressed that point earlier in this thread, or perhaps in the last.

    ” . . . a pebble can’t shout down a mountain.”

    Yet every pebble was once part of a mountain that got shouted down.

  5. “Indeed. I already addressed that point earlier in this thread, or perhaps in the last.”

    I know. Ya looking for some of that sweet, sweet validation ya old geezer? 😉

    “Yet every pebble was once part of a mountain that got shouted down.”

    A long, long time ago. And in the long run….you know the rest.

  6. @kfg: Addendum: “I have also been privy to women discussing how, rather than fighting over an alpha, they will share him to avoid conflict with each other.”

    I concur. This is the default. They’ll fight but when they realise you’re the mountain, they fall in line…to quote a saying in a disney cartoon; “No matter how much the wind howls, the mountain will not bow to it.”

  7. @Forge The Sky

    About time someone references Lana Del Rey on this blog. Her music pretty much spells out female human nature. So much so that at first I thought she was autistic or something. Then I realized she’s probably someone who middling HB5-6s listen to and think they’re being edgy. She makes me laugh, not mad.

  8. @NBTM, and your broken record of Zen MGTOW “assume desireless” plays on:
    http://therationalmale.com/2015/04/17/dancing-monkeys/

    16. Dancing Monkey Hate

    Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.

    If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.

    Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.

    But still…

    Otherwise there is nothing to fear and the man is his own leader, really doesn’t care what her agenda is except that he only allows her into his frame if her agenda serves his interests.

    Still, sounds kind of outcome dependent,…from a certain point of view. You lack complete conviction. If you were truly dedicated to the empowering influence of the Zen indifference you believe will elevate you above the influences of the chains of your physical impulses you’d cut your dick off now.

  9. Emily:

    “Yes Rollo, but polygamy has died out since then. Jesus Himself only talked about monogamous marriages, nothing else.”

    Fuck has this got to do with anything?

    “Every successful society has been mainly monogamous. A large part of the decline of the West IMO is that much of the population no longer practice monogamous marriages. Instead, most people chase hedonism and sexual desire. So less and less children are born in traditional family units.”

    Head-in-sand meme continues fortified by female judeo-christian solipsism.

    “And unfortunately, both feminism and the red pill teach their followers to be wary of monogamy.”

    http://33.media.tumblr.com/322f94f1a054e7c115c4b9f69f8d6c6e/tumblr_inline_n58cu1nTDD1qan53i.png

  10. “Ya looking for some of that sweet, sweet validation ya old geezer?”

    God gave me a bike, a pair of Chucks and a Strava account for that. That’s as close to “social media” as I get, but I can’t quite figure out what the thumbs up thingy is for. There aren’t even any fake prizes or anything related and most people seem to award them on a “participation” basis.

    I don’t need “validation” for doing something I was going to do anyway. It rather smacks of needing to be told what a good boy I am every time I manage to tie my own sneakers.

  11. One thing that I got from Rollo’s Man In Demand talk< dedicated now to Sam Botta, is that there is certainly a way for men to supply the needs of the feminine imperative, while still accomplishing the goals of a man's imperative in an inter-sexual relationship. Be a masculine male, hold frame, be red pill aware and be natural at game. But supply the feminine with their needs.

    After all it is not a zero sum game. Both sexes can win in a LTR.

    This dovetails into Rollo's essays on red pill parenting.

    It illustrates what Forge the Sky's father must have had in his DNA and in his mindset.

    I may bore most of you with my didactic sense, and with my rambling about LTR's when most readers are probably all about the single non-monogamous lifestyle.

    But if it helps one guy– Roused?, Andy?, Newlyaloof (even if the LTR is crumbling you can still do good for yourself and your children for the sake of the children?)–then it is worth it.

    I wish someone told me this shit 20 years ago. (fortunately I had skills in life to not fuck up and did well to fly by the seat of my pants, without any significant elders helping me out. I certainly don’t advise this avenue of enlightenment for the crowd on the bell curve). I was out with my 23 y.o. daughter last night hopefully spiking her enthusiasm for her boyfriend of 6 months–teaching her to let him drive the car. I drove my son home for winter break from college today in a new used car for him–an epic one hour drive that took four hours due to icy road conditions and accidents. So I was inspired to cut-and-paste what I think is a gem of a chapter in Deida’s book.

    And KFG, no matter how new age, syrupy, girly man Deida is, you can see through that to the gist of this thread for married dudes with kids holds some wisdom (and I’m not fixated or obsessed with Deida, just enthused by the praxeology):

    Don’t Use Your Family As an Excuse

    If a man never discovers his deepest purpose, or if he permanently com- promises it and uses his family as an excuse for doing so, then his core becomes weakened and he loses depth and presence. His woman loses trust and sexual polarity with him, even though he may be putting much energy into parenting their children and doing the housework. A man should, of course, be a full participant in caring for children and the household. But if he gives up his deepest purpose to do so, ultimately, everyone suffers.

    “Take care of the children and the house as much as you want. Just remember that if you give up your true purpose to do so for too long, you are not really helping anyone.

    Parenting children, as well as any responsible commitment in love, requires that you transcend your own personal preferences for the sake of the larger commitment, for the sake of service in love. This is a natural part of being a householder. However, you cannot abnegate your deepest purpose to do so, or else you will feel frustrated, eventually resigning yourself to a lesser life than you know you are capable of living.

    This self-resignation will communicate itself to your woman and your children. They will feel your weakness. Your woman will begin to take charge more than she really wants, since you are clearly not capable of taking charge yourself, and someone has to do it. Your children will challenge your capacity to discipline them, since they can feel your own lack of authentic self-discipline. Try as you might, once you have negated your own deep purpose, your household will become a place where everybody tests your capacity to stand your ground, and you will lose.

    Obviously, as a father or a householder, you will want to give your love, skill, energy, and time to your family. It will be your joy, and it will also be a necessity. However, the motive to dedicate time to house holding may or may not be symmetrical between partners, and this should be an ongoing discovery for each couple. This motive may change over time for both men and women as their lives grow through different stages.

    The priority of the feminine, in men and women, is the flow of love in relationship. The priority of the masculine, in men and women, is the mission which leads to freedom. Ultimately, true freedom and true love are the same. However, the journey of the masculine and feminine to this unity of love and freedom is very different.

    If your woman has a more feminine essence than you, or if she is in a more feminine phase of life than you, then her priority will be the flow of love in her life: her core will be much more fulfilled by the love she shares with the children than yours will be. You will also feel great fulfillment sharing love with your children, but if you have a masculine core, or if you are in a masculine phase of your life, this fulfillment will not touch your deepest parts in the same way. Even if you love your children every bit as much as your woman does, your relationship with them will only be part of your deepest life purpose.

    What is your deepest life purpose? For some men, their deepest life purpose is their family. If you are one of these men, then you probably aren’t concerned about the issue of whether or not you are using your family as an excuse. Many men, however, regardless of how much they love their family, also feel a deeper calling. If they do not live true to this calling, then their core weakens, even if they genuinely love and desire to serve their family.

    When you know your direction and are living it fully, your core is alive and strong. Your children will naturally feel this. They will respond to your clarity and presence differently than they will respond to your ambiguity—an ambiguity that results from having detoured from your deepest purpose because you think it’s “right” or “fair” that you spend time with them. A short period of time with a father who is absolutely present, full in love, undivided inside, and sure of his mission in life, will affect your children much more positively than if they spend lots of time with a father who is ambiguous in his intent and has lost touch with his deepest purpose, no matter how much he loves his children.

    Children learn most from their parents by osmosis. If their father is subtly weakened and compromised, this will flavor their experience of his love. Just as you did with your father, your children will unconsciously replicate or react to the emotional taste they absorb from you. Your essential emotional tone—at ease in your deepest purpose or fearful in the ambiguity of your intent—becomes part of your children’s home.

    If you and your woman both work, it is better to make arrangements with other families to “timeshare” child caring, or to hire someone to help with your children, than to permanently compromise your deepest purpose and truth because you feel you must do so to spend more time with your children. It is not the amount of time but the quality of the interaction that most influences a child’s growth. Children are exquisitely sensitive to emotional tone. If you are not full in your core, aligned with your deepest purpose and living a life of authentic commitment, your children will feel it.

    For their sake, your sake, and your woman’s sake, discover your deepest purpose, commit yourself completely to its process, and find a way to embrace your family as you do so. Be with your woman and your children without compromise or ambiguity. Don’t use your family as an excuse to be less than you can be. With birth control so readily available, children are a choice. If you choose to be a householder and raise children, you are responsible for serving them with as much authentic love as possible, which you can only give if your life is aligned with your deepest purpose.

    Don’t cheat your family of your fullest core, and don’t use them as an excuse to avoid the work it will take to manifest your highest vision. You can give love to your family and engage your life’s work, if you discipline yourself to act on your deepest desires with priority. Then, when you are with your family, you are with them totally, since there is no chronically unfinished business in your life to distract you, and no inner ambiguity about where you want to be or what you really want to be doing. ”

    Can anyone find fault in this praxeology?

  12. Yep, Forge, damn. I screwed that code.

    Italics should have ended after “If a man never discovers his deepest purpose,……. everyone suffers.

  13. @ Rollo

    Unable or unwilling to see outside the FI frame. So any perspective that fails to respect and comply with it is considered false. Stepping outside the frame is too risky. Familiarity breeds a false sense of security. So, reinforce the frame and defend it, lashing out at anyone who speaks from outside of it. Define everything and everyone in terms of the frame because you have become so dependant upon it. The relationship with it is a codependent one. It cannot exist for you without your respect for it yet you define your existence in terms of it. Respecting yourself in terms of who you really are requires that you stop defining your existence in terms of this frame. Stop defending the frame, drop it, walk away from it. This does not mean that a man must avoid women or deny sexuality. It simply means follow your dreams, your desires, not some “alpha beta burden of performance” born out of desperate PUA perceptions of what women want from men. That’s all hog wash, a cop out, born out of an irrational phobia or expectation of women based on a lack of self love. They want men just as much as men want them. You are repeating yourself over and over, chasing your tail. It is as if you do not really have conviction for what you write because you are repeating it over and over like someone doesn’t really believe it 100%. Who are you repeating all this stuff to really, everyone out in the ether or yourself? It is becoming a circle jerk. The ground you have covered is worth covering and the dots you connected worth connecting but now it is time to break out of the circle lest it become a downward spiral.

    1. Just got this comment on another thread:
      http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/#comment-132178

      You all are beta, there are no alphas. ….alphas are mythilogical creatures lIke unicorns. You are all beta just by reading this bullshit. The fact that you are even searching for answers and direction on how to “handle” women and that there’s an entire philosophy surrounding it proves that we are controlling the Game.

      Sounds an awful lot like MGTOW in its infancy for a female perspective.

      Keep your head in the sand, don’t look behind the curtain.

  14. @NBTM

    I have never had such an inspired upward spiral–due to Rollo’s praxeology–in all my life in the last two years. And I’ve had a shit-load of excellent, inspired upward spirals in my life.

    Stop your masturbation here.

  15. Heheh, my four-overtime automobile drive this evening resembles the Pistons-Bulls four overtime basketball game. Apropos of hanging out with watching with the son and my LTR wife who doesn’t have a though of divorcing me tonight. Life is beautiful. And I’m never bored, depressed, in pain, or sorry for myself.

    Love you Rollo.

  16. Setting aisde religious-themed reasons to ignore reality, we arrive at an unfortunate yet logical conclusion regarding women currently.

    Not only is marriage a fools endeavor, we might even extend that to LTRs as well. Not that the court system is as onerous for LTRs, true. But women have zero incentive to be loyal to ANY man regardless of his value in this matriarchy.

    Matters have de-evolved to where the LTR escalation is just a scaled up shit test. After some months of easy boning she hits you with the “lets be a couple” speech. The way younger women see it nowadays emotionally, if you’re really as Alpha as she thinks you’ll kick her to the curb on the spot and the more self aware ones actually ** expect** this outcome . If you don’t?

    Shit test failed, proceed to Beta status.

    And for what, as a man? Declining sex and BS invites to all her social gatherings and family meetings ? No woman alive has ever said ” hey, lets go back to me being one of your girlfriends like we were and cancel this whole wedding thing. ” With time, the price to maintain and exit the relationship always escalates exponentially. That’s why some guys end up paying millions in court trying to get out of a bad marriage. They waited too long and would have avoided so much pain and impoverishment had they said “No” when she first tried to escalate into an LTR.

    No thanks. IMO, an LTR today is a delusion on the part of a man who thinks he can freeze time and forever stay in the initial, exciting stage of knowing a new girl indefinitely. The reality of it is that sooner or later the ride with her ends, and the later you wait the more you’ll pay to exit. If she craps a brick and goes all “We can’t be together unless we’re exclusive” ,its just another filibuster similar to “I don’t have sex right away”. Time to allocate your attention elsewhere.

  17. YaReally, and the rest of the gang (Forge the Sky, Scribblerg, Dutchman et al):

    Latest FR from this month’s Going Out Week for me:

    Interesting night..new wings are great, esp two – one guy my age who has been in Game for ages and an early 20s quasi Natural. There was also a third guy late 40s who is seriously lacking in basic social skills that he needs to figure that out before seduction..

    Having good wings made a big difference..only had one beer and I want to keep it at that level – I just notice more and I’m more alert sober.

    Similar themes to last big night..plenty of situational openers, didn’t go up to any sets but that’s not really a big deal for me now so not concerned. Spoke to loads of girls whether I opened or my wings opened. Still sticking points to do with not pushing forward with interactions as far as they will go and letting it fizzle (although the state problem was solved this time with good wings). And to be honest, it felt like I stayed in set a while longer on average this time before letting it fizzle, so that’s progress – I just run out of things to say a bit later..

    Overall a good night with good vibes even if I didn’t close.

    Most girls I spoke to were college students or recent grads.. age no problem at all.

    Got a decent number of AIs (although not my highest ever), but what really stood out for me (this is a first for me) is that nearly every girl I had a conversation of over a minute with kept touching me – about 4-5 girls. Like chatting away and stuff and they touched me..usually more than once..arm, chest etc to talk to make a point etc. And incidentally, I am NOT muscular or ripped or anything – I’m not fat – I’m pretty lean, but virtually zero muscle to speak of.

    Again this goes back to the subcomms I’m obviously sending out.something has clearly changed and I’m not sure what. This never used to happen to me even 6-9 months ago, and it’s still happening – this touching thing is new this time. But doing a lot of online dating (and more importantly, dozens of first dates and 15-20 bangs in 1 year) has clearly boosted my confidence and body language and subcomms. I really wasn’t saying anything special or telling amazing stories or anything..I made a few provocative/teasing statements with one girl but mostly it was barely one step beyond interview questions and maybe some mild teasing.

    The very first set my wing and I opened just kinda reminded me how much sheer fun this is and can be..the whole process. Game is FUN.

    Two set 19/20. One HB7 and a very cute All-American looking blonde 7.5 (for some reason there was just something sexier about the HB7 though – just talking to her I wanted to rip her clothes off). My wing and I laughing and chatting..me teasing by telling her I didn’t believe one when she said 19 and she must be 40..I called the 20 year old the “older woman” – which isn’t even that funny but my wing and I totally laughed out loud at it and self-amused ourselves..and the girl laughed. At one point I blatantly checked out the HB7 and was like “No, I’m distracted I’m checking out your tits” and it was such a rush to see her (very pretty blue) eyes go completely wide as the emotional spike hit her and she was like “Oh you guys! You’re being such men!”.

    Some other chick towards the end (HB7 about 30) was totally drunk off her face. I’d had AIs from her earlier but only opened her towards closing time – kino was great but she was so gone it was difficult to have a proper conversation with her..she asked if my (other) wing was gay and my boyfriend. I just lolled to myself again and told her we were bisexual and in an open relationship and banged chicks on the side (she was too drunk to even get it but I found it hilarious)..a few minutes later she walked past us mouthing “gay boys” to me. LOL.

    I made 2-3 other sets completely go eyes-wide and LOL when they asked about my work and I told them and I said “I don’t get paid in money..only in sexual favours”

    One thing that I think did help although it is very early days is that I am consciously trying to put into play what Julien describes in PIMP. I forget a lot of the time, but I am TRYING to consciously control my voice tonality and project a specific sub communication with each thing I’m saying..commanding/dominant, challenging..that sort of thing.

    Second Julien thing that is already helping is that I am focussing much less on talking and entertaining her with long stories..it’s just not practical in a club even though girls love it on dates. So it’s much more of the very short anecdotes with emotional spikes and cold reads and sexual innuendo and even boring interview qs, which appears to work well (with the right subcomms).

    Third Julien thing – I am actually thinking much more strategically about the night – about how in the first half you talk to loads of girls and collect numbers and in the second half you pick your best target, stick to her and do your best to escalate and pull.

    Any tips on how I can handle the latter part of the night – “pulling time”? This is when the music is pumped, the girls are drunk and horny and guys are pouncing all over the place, and it’s even harder to run verbal game than usual. Once in a while when I’ve been drunk I’ve managed to do stuff like stand in the middle of the walking route through the club and literally grab girls by the arm and pull them into me but it’s insanely rare for me to have the state high enough to do that.

    Just literally like..how do I pull these girls and escalate without talking? When buying temperatures are running high. I guess I can grab her and pull her in to me..then what? Can’t really talk much..do I just go for the kiss? Try and dance with her (I am terrible and uncomfortable..just what?)

  18. @culum

    “No, I’m distracted I’m checking out your tits” and it was such a rush to see her (very pretty blue) eyes go completely wide as the emotional spike hit her and she was like “Oh you guys! You’re being such men!”.

    There is a gap in your FR, since it doesn’t explain at all how this ended (maybe ego protection?). Somehow you transferred from a DTF girl that you wanted to rip the clothes off and she wanted you to rip her clothes off, to a drunk 30 year old.

  19. Well I’m on a tiny phone w spotty Internet here but I had to give culum props for the FR.

    Great stuff, you’re having fun and analyzing. I’m watching SHIFT as well and it seems great so far.

    First off, redlight is correct. Not much info about how some of these really open sets are ending. Figure out the sticking point to the close and it sounds like you’d have some of these in the bag.

    Second, and this is kinda keyboard jockeying since I still suck at the later-evening close, it really does seem to be mostly reading subcomms so you know when you can just take a girls hand and literally pull her out. Just say you’re going ‘outside for a sec’ if she protests. Stop if you get hard resistance obviously. Tyler’s infields w students often are just him giving them the confirmation they need to act – ‘take her hand. Do it. Now take her out. Into the cab. Do it now.’ And she goes, protesting feebly.

    That shit takes iron balls till you’ve done it a few times – maybe even then. But that jump in the dark to take action towards the lay nearly always falls to the man. Hell, even when I had a crazy chick isolating me and laying against me she still waited for me to touch her first. Female priority one – always have plausible deniability.

  20. Update on Monk Mode Redux. I realize it’s unnecessary. I’m not in the place I was at at 9 months ago. But the need to internalize and make real all that I’ve learned here is all the more present to me. Surprisingly, the angle that has me digging more deeply is gaming young hotties. My realization that I was playing a “soft sugar Daddy” game was kind of shocking. It was an ego buffer that still covered up that I’m not “the prize”. Even more to the point, it uncovered a deep sense of my own shortcomings and shame about myself that I had been treating as though was “real”. It’s not, it’s just bad programming, beaten into me before I had a chance to make up my own mind.

    There is a real trap in “self improvement” and shouldering the “burden of performance” for men like me. That is men who were beaten and denigrated for their entire childhood by sadistic, psychopathic fathers – and no, girls, most of you have no idea what that’s like. You see, the worst is always reserved for the sons. In my family, while my Dad terrorized us all, he didn’t hit my sister. But the boys? Hell yeah, party time. Of course, just witnessing this violence shattered my sister too but you gals should get that when women talk about physical violence and abuse, you are all ignoring that boys are victimized more often and more brutally than girls.

    The trap is that I take on self-improvement as validation that I’m somehow not “good enough” already. Not in what I manifest in my life though my actions but rather at some deep inchoate level. That visceral sense of shame male adult victims of abuse carry around with them. Self-improvement gives me another way to whip myself, versus just seeing the game of life being a man is and playing it joyfully. It really just raises the stakes even more and puts me in more of an existential grinder. Part of what had me face this – again very surprisingly – was watching this video before I went out last night and again failed miserably at gaming.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La6Btv7lDa8&w=560&h=315%5D

    Fyi, it’s not that Luke is some philosophical guru, it’s that he’s confronted his own beliefs about himself so clearly. And that he gets that “gaming” is not about validating who he is – it’s about how to optimize the tickling of the female hindbrain. It’s confronting for me because I’m naturally the kind of high energy freak he and Tyler are, and when I was younger I could let that part of me out sometimes (usually when wasted) but now at 53? I’m embarrassed to be that way. All because I’m still seeking ego validation, not pussy. Damn. And my ego is so in need of it cuz of this basic self-loathing which still plagues me.

    But we are supposed to shut up and take it. Accordingly, we cannot talk about it to women either. Ya wanna see a pussy dry up? Talk about how your Dad’s constant denigration and abuse makes you default to self-loathing. Lol, what a lie that women are the emotionally intelligent – only my male friends can listen to this stuff from me with compassion. Women simply don’t give a shit. Sisters, wives, daughters, friends – disgust is the reaction.

    My relevant point for the audience here? I did so much “work” to deal with this. 15 years of therapy, AA, Buddhism, self-help and I became ego invested in seeing myself as “healed”. And surely, i made progress. A shrink once told me that it was a miracle that I hadn’t killed myself or was living on the streets as a heroin addict (added to my abuse was the death of my mom at 11, the departure of my Dad at 15 when stepmom and he divorce and the my stepmom moving on, leaving me utterly on my own at 18). I always hated when shrinks said that, as I always wanted to be “well”.

    So I developed many buffers. I functioned in what appeared to be “high” ways. But deep down inside, a wellspring of never ending self-hate was always there. Bizarrely – truly, it’s shocking to me – it’s gaming young hotties that makes me confront this. You see, I don’t see age appropriate women as more valuable than me. Or better said, somehow I’ve managed to see them as of less valuable than me, not that I’m of high value, a crucial distinction. And I’m not attracted to these women so I can game them. In fact, the moment I’m attracted to a woman, she becomes higher value – axiomatically.

    But gaming makes me face this squarely. I cannot see myself as the prize when I’m very attracted to a woman. Most of my “success” with banging women and having highly sexualized relationships came when I was at the height of my drinking, the 3 years after my divorce in my early 30s. When I was blitzed out of my gourd, I could let my “dark side” come out and women reacted very strongly to me. I had dominant sexual relationships and many crazy, fun sexual experiences. But sober? Moments of it here and there but always, the “good guy” and the Blue Pill/FI aspirations overrode me as I was always trying to be “good” – cuz I knew I wasn’t. Only 10 scotches and a few bong hits seemed to take that away. Haven’t had a drink in 20 years though, cuz that wasn’t the answer either.

    So, guys, here I am, naked. Facing my deepest demons at 53. I do have moments of peace, don’t get me wrong, I’m not continuously tortured as I can just sometimes let all that crap go but it takes effort. However, that’s the exception, not the rule. And I’m facing it head on now. Guys who haven’t been victimized the way I have been probably cannot understand how deeply such crap goes – but i know that many guys here can relate to me too. This is for you guys, I want you to know that you are not alone. That you can’t afford to kid yourself, to deny this about yourselves as I have done for far too long. It’s nothing less than soul-death and I refuse to live this way any longer.

    I bring all this up here for two purposes. One, I want witnesses. Two – as with all the other things I’ve faced about myself, speaking the truth to myself and others about it is in and of itself transformative and freeing. I only get to change these things “in the moment’ – catch the thought, release it, reframe it and re-visualize it, just as I did with my traumas. This rewires the neurology at work that keeps this crap alive within me. I have been ashamed to admit that this is my truth. But here’s the thing, I haven’t done all this fucking work, choking down the Red Pill and tearing myself down only to rebuild to only accept crumbs of success. I want the whole enchilada. So, for you guys who can relate, let’s keep this aspect of the dialog going. For guys who want to support and help, fantastic. And for the few of you who will use this commentary to take cheap shots, just remember – that just makes you cheap shot artists…

    SJF said something brilliant a while back (he says many brilliant things, I just wish he could do so in shorter form sometimes, lol). “Do not seek completion in life.” Somehow this got to me, helping me see how I’ve turned the Red Pill into another journey of “fixing” myself. How I live in a state of “someday” when I fix myself, then I can have what I want and the life of my dreams.That then I’ll be good enough so i can stop hating myself. Whew. Seriously, whew.

    And then I have to see this on YouTube this morning…Fuck me sideways, the FI induced shit just gets deeper and deeper…Can you imagine a video done about men, showing all that we deal with? We are more likely to be victims of all kinds of violence and abuse in society – including rape (when prison rapes are included). Yet this is what we are served up.

    [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP7OXDWof30&w=560&h=315%5D

    Drops mic, leaves the stage…

  21. OK, so here’s me going off on a ramble based on some perceptions in this thread. I surely can’t do short. I’ve tried. Once or twice. It’s a psychological pressure of speech defect. I’m just using this space for masculine self improvement by thinking out loud and to exercise for my fingers.:

    Rollo wrote this in the Evolution of Game

    Game

    Of these concepts the one I return to the most frequently is that of Game. My editor asks, “Just what is Game?” Throughout the upcoming book, this blog, and virtually every major manosphere writer’s blog there’s a constant presumption that readers will know exactly what Game is when it’s referred to. Game has been lifted up to an almost mythical state; like some panacea for the common guy struggling with achieving women’s attentions and intimacy. It’s gotten to the point where familiarity with Game has become a flippant aside for manosphere bloggers – we have varieties of Game, we have internalized Game, we have ‘natural’ Game, direct Game, Beta Game etc., but defining the term ‘Game’ for someone unfamiliar with the very involved intricacies, behaviors and the underlying psychological principles on which Game is founded is really tough for the uninitiated to wrap their heads around in the beginning.

    For the unfamiliar, just the word ‘Game’ seems to infer deception or manipulation. You’re not being real if you’re playing a Game, so from the outset we’re starting off from a disadvantage of perception. This is further compounded when attempting to explain Game concepts to a guy who’s only ever been conditioned to ‘just be himself‘ with women and how women allegedly hate guys “who play games” with them. As bad as that sounds, it’s really in the explanation of how Game is more than the common perception that prompts the discussion for the new reader to have it explained for them.

    At its root level Game is a series of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological and sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations between genders.

    Several commenters upstream mentioned the difficulty of interacting and conversing with others. Basically being bored to tears with listening to inane conversations at parties. Well, I would submit that game is understanding your “weaknesses” or inborn and or learned personality traits, and counteracting your normal tendencies in order to facilitate getting into a girls pants.

    In other words modify your behavior to facilitate inter-sexual relations.

    Practical advice: OK, so some people are Intuitive types and some people are Observant types–the dreaded second initial of the Meyers Briggs personality types.

    Individuals with the Intuitive trait prefer to rely on their imagination, ideas and possibilities. They dream, fantasize and question why things happen the way they do, always feeling slightly detached from the actual, concrete world. One could even say that these individuals never actually feel as if they truly belong to this world. They may observe other people and events, but their mind remains directed both inwards and somewhere beyond – always questioning, wondering and making connections. When all is said and done, Intuitive types believe in novelty, in the open mind, and in never-ending improvement.

    In contrast, individuals with the Observant trait focus on the actual world and things happening around them. They enjoy seeing, touching, feeling and experiencing – and leave theories and possibilities to others. They want to keep their feet on the ground and focus on the present, instead of wondering why or when something might happen. Consequently, people with this trait tend to be better at dealing with facts, tools and concrete objects as opposed to brainstorming about possibilities or future events, handling abstract theories, or exploring fantasy scenarios. Observant types are also significantly better at focusing on just one thing at a time instead of bursting with energy and juggling multiple activities.

    These traits determine communication style as well – Intuitive individuals talk about ideas and have no difficulties with allusions or reading between the lines, while Observant types focus on clarity, facts and practical matters (read boring to the intuitive type). This is why Intuitive types are likely to find it quite challenging to understand someone with the Observant trait, and vice versa. The former may even think that the latter is materialistic, unimaginative and simplistic, and the latter may see their Intuitive conversation partner as impractical, naive and absent-minded. Both sets of assumptions can be quite damaging and it takes a mature person to get past them – but statements like these are fairly common.

    So guys like Andy and IAS will be bored to tears by hearing banal obervations of Observant types. It boils down to whether we prefer to focus most of our energy on looking for novel, intuitive connections or on observing and utilizing what we already see around us.

    So in Game, if you are Intuitive type, you have to recognize this and flip the script in order to get in the pants of an Observant type. You have to be interested. You have to spike their emotions.

    I know Julien and Tyler are into a big kick these days about being disagreeable with women out in the field gaming women, but they got their game refined and down tight. I would think that YaReally and Mystery really try hard to get agreeable with women to a degree without being too much of a pussy and leaning into women too much. And I guess the overarching thing to do is “Vibe with Others”, a theme espoused well by Forge the Sky lately. (Possibly vibing with a Low-self-esteem woman can be calibrated with disagreeable-ness and a High-self-esteem woman with agreeable-ness, but that is probably too simplistic)

    If you are an intuitive type talking to an observant type, what about gaming with one of The Big Five Personality Traits–that being agreeableness. It takes agreeableness to engage into a conversation with a target you are gaming.

    Agreeableness: (friendly/compassionate vs. analytical/detached). A tendency to be compassionate and cooperative rather than suspicious and antagonistic towards others. It is also a measure of one’s trusting and helpful nature, and whether a person is generally well-tempered or not. High agreeableness is often seen as naive or submissive. Low agreeableness personalities are often competitive or challenging people, which can be seen as argumentative or untrustworthy.
    So be agreeable in conversation up to a point of not being naive or submissive. Vibe with the girl and make it all about her. Not about you. Or at least fake it that way to get into her pants.

    Rollo in Breadcrumbs:

    Conversation

    Scenarios like this tease interest in women, but remember, mete out your personal information to them like dog treats. The trick is to mine them for information in casual conversation while dropping ‘breadcrumbs’ about yourself in the conversation and this is all too easy to do once you get the knack for it. Keep in mind that women are naturally better with language and non-verbal communication skills than men, so again, use this to your own advantage. Getting a woman to talk about herself has got to be the easiest thing for a man to do since this is what they love most, but listening and picking up on threads in her conversation is the real skill to master. A person who talks about themself is an egoist, a person who talks about others is a gossip, but a person who can get another person to talk about themself is a brilliant conversationalist. The key to conversation is to shape it in such a way that you leave her with an emotional perception of you. It bears repeating that women communicate differently than men, but in doing so they form emotional perceptions with another person (guy or girl) as part of that communication.

    Again, use this to your advantage by making her ‘feel’ you when you talk. I’m sure you’ve all heard that men are more ‘visually oriented’ that women, but women are more attuned to voice, touch and smell than men. All of this equates to an overall emotional perception of you. When you enter her environment (she hears your voice, feels your casual touch, and yes, even sees you) she recalls this emotional perception. Remember that you are creating this from your first encounter. Too many guys think that women work just like guys and figure they can easily alter perceptions based on different conditions, you can’t, or at least it doesn’t happen very easily and by then is rarely worth the effort.

    Ok, I’m off to gather stuff for the family holiday get together hosted at our house. Gotta mentally psych myself up to converse later with my boring blue pill brothers and my wonderful mother (truly). I didn’t have time to proofread this and hopefully didn’t screw up the code. Sorry for the TL;DR version of a simple thought.

  22. “Low agreeableness personalities are often competitive or challenging people, which can be seen as argumentative or untrustworthy.”

    By high agreeableness personalities, because they are also high fear. This would appear to be a paradox, until you realize that high agreeableness people are low defense people and thus constantly in a state of vulnerability, always getting whacked by shit they “never saw coming.”

  23. @rollo at 11:32 pm remarked about this comment:

    You all are beta … The fact that you are even searching for answers and direction on how to “handle” women and that there’s an entire philosophy surrounding it proves that we are controlling the Game.

    which means Just Get It:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/

    Laws:
    1) Female commentators will always be examples of the points made here
    2) Rollo is always right

  24. Given that people are helping out NewlyAloof with good advice…

    I’ve been upping the alpha since a couple of months ago. My wife is probably PMSing today (I’m tracking the cycle and it is a few days before the Red Tide). According to SJF (with whom I shared some extra details) I should bring in comfort but she has been denying sex and I’ve been doing what needs to be done in terms of logistics.

    Today she outright insulted me to my face (not the first time) because after some minor disrespect when I was helping her, I told her I would let her do it alone. Then as expected she asked for my help. When I didn’t do anything she flipped and insulted me. I totally kept my cool. In the past I would get angry and demand an apology. This time IDGAF. One of the insults was “idiot”, so it isn’t quite as bad as NewlyAloof’s wife perhaps.

    I don’t have kids and the lack of respect bothers me more than the lack of sex, although that also bothers me.

  25. @IAS

    Funny, I just got instructed on how to load the dishwasher (don’t put delicate glasses right next to each other on the top shelf–alternate them with plastic). (actually gave me an excuse to go and be alone in the library after the family guests just left to recharge my introvert batteries). And damn, we have another holiday party to go to tonight. Yes, I also walked away and told her she can finish cleaning up. Yes, I got mildly/moderately emotional as if I resented it. Merely a gambit on my part.

    These are simple shit tests. Treat them as such. Your wife calling you an idiot is just a simple shit test. Reacting unemotional is good. It’s not like you really don’t give a fuck (heh–she insulted you), but it is that you fake DGAF by being unemotional in response.

    Shit tests like that from the wives are certainly disrespectful. I do care not to be treated like that. Comforting her when she is PMS and menstrual doesn’t mean comfort when she is being shitty to you. Don’t reward bad behavior. And don’t tolerate it. But through married man Game, you can handle shit tests better. Demonstrating that you are a high value man with game means not reacting like a child to the shit test.

    But on the other hand, her shit tests and comfort tests (it pays to know the difference) are part of the meta of comfort in general based on your specifics ( she wants a house, so she shit tested you about something minor). And yes women are bitchy when they are on the rag. So what I am trying to say is that learning to optimize your game with this will make you a better man and instill admiration and respect for you (by her)–one of these days. She doesn’t want to be with a guy that can’t pass her shit test. Her shit test is testing your worthiness to be with her in a marriage.

    Up your alpha, yes. But don’t be an alpha asshole. That is, unless you got plenty of comfort credits in the comfort bank with her. And apologize occasionally if you did something wrong. Don’t apologize if you didn’t. And don’t be afraid to just disappear from her if she is being really bitchy during shark week. She needs comfort but not if she is bitchy and disrespectful.

    Sorry for the jumbled thoughts and sentence struture. My batteries are still low due to the socializing that I did fairly well at.

  26. Been out of town vacationing with another couple. Got a party to go to tonight. Will update later. Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.

  27. @ redlight

    so true. Womenz in all their entitled “logic counterarguments” subconsciously always confirm what Rollo is teaching us here.

    They just don’t get it.

  28. @IAS

    Another thought. Keep Andy’s maxim in mind. (Well said Andy! @December 18th, 2015 at 11:39 am)

    I wouldn’t obsess about dread her disrespecting you and not wanting to have sex with you too much.You might want to get her to the point where she LIKES you again first.

    Heehee, easy for me to say, right? (Disrespecting you and not wanting to have sex is serious business. Hopefully she’s not sub-communicating contempt. If that’s happening you really have to sharpen your married-man game skills.)

  29. @ASDgamer

    “Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.”

    Funny, that just happened to me at the grocery store this morning by a HB6 round about my daughter’s age. Caught me off guard and I was non-reactive. I really should have engaged and approached (to liven game skills) even if I didn’t have any sexual interest. And if perchance I did engage, the conversation would be all about her, not much about me.

  30. @Everyone

    I just saw Star Wars.

    This movie was better than I thought it would be. From a red pill perspective I feel like it threw me off some. Plot holes aside, and there are some HUGE ones, I expected a major picture to be much more “strong independent woman”. Ant-Man seemed MUCH more fem-centric by comparison. STILL lots of equalism at play there.

    It almost feels like it was made for me…..and that’s a bit of a shock. Maybe the older generation is taking too long to die off for them to just shove their whole fem-centric agenda onto us.

    The FI is everywhere, right? My red pill lens was going off right and left on this movie.

  31. Haven’t seen it, but I thought it was basic Strong-Independent-Female-Jedi with a kind of cowardly black guy whom she gets with kind of thing.

  32. “Maybe the older generation is taking too long to die off for them to just shove their whole fem-centric agenda onto us.”

    What’s funny is, the younger generation of third wave feminism, the only kind that counts right now, thinks that Betty Friedan showed polite behaviour in dying and wish that Gloria Steinem and Germaine Greer would show the same courtesy.

  33. Thanks guys – the feedback is really useful.

    @redlight:

    I was trying not to indulge my penchant for verbosity in my comments and not list every detail lol.

    The 19/20 year old interaction was funny, because although I had some IOIs from the 7, it was the 7.5 who kept touching me repeatedly and introduced herself to me and stuff, while the 7 kept doing it to my wing. And my wing wanted the classic All American blonde 7.5!

    But it was so early in the night that I let them go as Julien recommends (albeit without number closing as he says to do – stupid) and over the next couple of hours I got big smiles and AIs from the 7.5 every time I saw her around the club (at one point she was going up the stairs to the outdoor smoking area – with some guy – when I was walking down the stairs, and she literally stopped in the middle of the stairs and started talking to me with a big smile and EC). Unfortunately just as I was about to pull the trigger and try to pull either the 7 or 7.5 (when the bar hit the drunk/pulling time), they had some kind of argument between them and left..

    The 30 year old drunk HB7 was an entirely separate interaction a couple of hours later. The “gay boy” thing was just a shit test – my verbal response was good but she was so drunk she didn’t register it. I could have probably just gone in for the kiss (I was already holding her with my arm around her) except she was with her work colleagues on a Christmas party and that could have been major ASD.

    I’ve also seen that Gambler video long ago but it’s been ages. From memory it is much more about pumping sexual tension relatively early in the interaction (I may have forgotten if it has later stuff in it – I remember the bit where he cuts distance and laser-eyes a girl from the audience) – I suppose I could do some of that but I’d have to move a lot quicker in the later part of the night when it is “pulling time” – I think the key is your last sentence – I just need to run through the escalation ladder very quickly and minimal talking and then just *lead her out* of the club. It’s like I’ve been planning out my verbal escalation and where the conversation is going – I need to plan out the physical escalation in the same way and follow the plan.

    @Forge The Sky – thanks man. I think you’re spot on. It’s basically the same conclusion as my previous paragraph. Sure, do some physical escalation in the club but I need to take her hand and LEAD her somewhere, sooner rather than later and I just don’t have enough reference experiences to be confident about that. You’re totally right that even when you know it’s the right thing to do it’ll be hugely comforting to have someone with Tyler’s experience tell you to Just Do It – if HE can see she’s turned on enough to do it, you can do it and have permission you know?

  34. @culum

    But it was so early in the night that I let them go as Julien recommends (albeit without number closing as he says to do – stupid)

    reflect back, why didn’t you number close? You are not stupid, so why?

    btw, I suggest you try to escalating all the way, with outcome independence, and leave retreating to later

  35. SNL just did the best FI shaming skit ever, Meet Your Second Wife

    that is the FI shaming men for marrying younger women

    I guess one or both of Tina Fey and Amy Poehler, the hosts, are a little concern about getting older

    I’ll post it tomorrow

  36. @culum
    Honestly, don’t sweat too much the “tempo” of the night
    From reading your interaction with the 7 and 7,5, it sound more like an excuse your subconcious gave you in order not to escalate (and possibly risking rejection). Who cares if its 11pm instead of 12pm, just escalate, they were touching you, MASSIVE IOI!!

    Also, keep in mind that you should try to isolate as much as you can once you have initial attraction (like “lets go for a smoke” and you take her by the hand). Isolation will make escalation MUCH easier.

    Also, remember what Julien said about “just pulling”. Take her by the hand and say “lets go” you’ll be surprised how often it works lol

    All in all, with all due respect, I feel like you’re trying too much to be a “good game student”, following exactly all the stuff you’ve read online, and you get a bit paralized when it’s time to act.
    This stuff is simple when you think about it : attraction (you could generate that easily with all those AIs), isolation (throw in a bit of comfort), escalation and PULL!

    Props for the FR btw, and for going out and taking action!

  37. @Forge the Sky

    I notice in that Lana Del Rey video that her tire-swing is the size of a sky scraper and you can’t tell where the fuck it’s swinging from.

    Much like women seem to think there should just be men around for her to exploit or fuck and make “her darkest desires” a reality.

    Not with my hard-earned money you wont, princess.

  38. @Klem – “I feel like you’re trying too much to be a “good game student”” – hit me between the eyes. No FRs worth sharing as last night was so dead in my town, decided to plant at a new venue and get to know the two hot bartenders who work Fri/Sat as a team for future gaming at that place. We have foundations in 3 bars now, so will keep working it.

    Thurs night I crashed and burned badly and gave up, lol. Did an FR with SJF, bottom line was my mental state was shit and I was not into it and forced it, pissed off 2 40 something women who I was trying to use to DHV (badly) 25 mins total, so not worth wasting time about here. But I keep reading more and learning more and see it more as a long term campaign in my social scene. All the college girlies are home for the holidays so the town I’m near is just dead. The learning for me from Thurs night was to listen to music and work myself into a good mental state before I go out.

    However, the wing and I are making progress on how to work together.

    @Ya, Klem, Scray, whoever – Can you provide some insights or links about how to work with a wing most effectively?

  39. @ Blax

    Women drive the act of sex. Men take the blame/responsibility.

    Practically every woman I have ever bedded has actually made the decision/selection.

    See, I think that this is a FI-goggles way of explaining what goes on. If men are sex-initiators and women are sex-responders, then it will seem like they make the decision. Actually, we men make the first decision about whom we want to approach and we might approach several women in a club or have several possibilities that we are pursuing in our networks. Certainly, women have a say in whether or not they will have sex with you. But we men also have a say. How many whales have you bedded? None? I thought so.

    NB: Around unattractive men, women will not be aroused, so those unattractive men will think that women have a low libido. However, if an attractive man is around, the libido of women in the vicinity will perk up. Attractive men will think that women have a not-low libido.

    Attractive men => women have a not-low libido

    Unattractive men => women have a low libido

  40. @Yollo Comanche: “The FI is everywhere, right? My red pill lens was going off right and left on this movie.”

    I don’t think it’s possible to watch anything nowadays without a red pill lens.

  41. @Blax – It’s well known that women choose and men compete for that choice. However, men are usually triggering that selection by their own actions. There is a consequence to the difference in sex drives between men and women as well, in the sense that it results in men adapting and behaving and evolving to win that competition much more readily than women do. This even shows up in genetics, as male genetics mutate/evolve 1/3 faster than female.

    It’s also a relative game.Let me try a thought experiment. Imagine you were in a setting where there were only 100 Blaximus’s? How would women’s choice work then? Would you then have to work? This would level out the pre-selection, subcomms etc. How would selection work then? What cues would women look for? How would you act if none of your pre-selection/subcomms were an advantage? Fyi, I’ve heard you work game hard on other women, on the street and stairwell, so I think you are generalizing a bit much on how your interactions with women go.

    Last. Context is decisive in that it preselects women with certain characteristics. For every “ho” out at the club there a thousand women sitting at home who would never approach you. Also, there is a class of women who prefer black men, again, you are attracting some of them too. My point? The ecology is much more decisive than most men realize.

    That’s why clubs aren’t good for me. I’m great with conversation and banter and spiking etc. My pre-selection isn’t as strong as your’s. As I work on “Old Man Game”, I’m having to recognize what my starting point with women is and work from there. Loud nightclubs put me at a relative disadvantage wrt pre-selection and being able to work my verbal skills. Quieter venues are better but then again, they aren’t as filled with horny sluts (near estrus).

    My point? Just saying ‘ever woman I’ve banged picked me’ isn’t very revealing.

  42. An interesting time at a Christmas party last night hosted by a friend of my GF. Good mix of people, especially the married women in their mid-30s. Within a few minutes of entering and being introduced to a few people met a tall HB7 wearing a short dress, cleavage showing and openly flirty. My GF saw this right away and since we were all having a good time I didn’t worry about it too much. Found out tall girl’s husband was a partner at a company I recently did a small bit of business with. Wanting to meet him I asked where he was at the party. She immediately goes into bashing her husband.

    After a monologue about how this guy is anti-social, never does anything with her, won’t listen, and “does his own thing” I said deadpan: “oh, so he isn’t henpecked, good for him” Her reaction along with my GF’s were astonishment to here a guy openly stand up to whiny bitching. At this point my GF rolled her eyes and went to fetch drinks so I hung with tall married girl. Then asked her why she had to openly bash her hubs. Blah blah blah frustrated etc…classic stuff she hammered about. I saw this unfolding in a couple of ways:

    1. I could flirt all night with her and use a bit of dread on my GF. Very carefully though so she wouldn’t be too put off.
    2. Play husband destroyer and game her into eventual hookup. While this spiked my libido I had to keep telling myself down boy! Did not want to damage future business interests for a ONS.
    3. I could practice Game.

    I took #2 off the table as I learned more very quickly about the social and business circle being even tighter. But just the IDEA of showing interest in this chick and my GF seeing it made me feel good.

    Another hot married 30-something red head was orbiting in and out of our conversations. She was wearing high heel stripper shoes and talking about her thigh high leather fuck me boots. I glanced at her husband to see his reaction. He was completely allowing his wife to openly talk ad air like a slut. Complete beta look which told me she has her boot heel on his dick. When I asked about the boots he did nothing as she lifted her dress up indicating how high up her thigh they went. All these long legs and a touch of gin were getting me wound up. Red head says to tall girl whose husband was a no show: “You should get a pair of hot boots instead of those flat things.” I chimed in: “maybe your husband would go out with you more often if you got thigh high boots like Red has.” Seeing my GF get uncomfortable I commented and pointed to GF’s sexy black boots and pulled her in close making sure she didn’t feel left out.

    Redhead then comments on Talls nice short dress and black nylons. Red notices a small loose thread dangling from the hem, wasn’t a very well tailored dress. Talls says she needed to find a pair of scissors to cut it. A moment ago my GF had stepped away to refresh drinks so I quickly took the opportunity to say directly to Talls: “Or some teeth instead of scissors.” She looked directly into my eyes laser locked and replied: “Who’s teeth would that be?” With the eyes locked I didn’t feel words were needed so I gave a veery subtle smirk with just a touch of raised eyebrow. She knew immediately the message I sent and her face began to flush with what seemed a nice spike.

    After this she used a few opportunities to touch my arm and lean in close, but was wary of too much kino as GF was nearby. Eventually I got Talls alone and asked more about her marriage and her general satisfaction. Blah blah about their two little kids and such. I cut right to the chase and looked at her eyes and asked how often they had sex. She says oh about 3-4 times. I said per week? That’s great! Her head just slightly bows and she looks away, “no that’s per month.”

    Me: “Well you must love him and be really happy with your marriage, I’m sure he is a good husband.”

    Gave her a smile and left it at that walking away. I went outside to have a smoke and handful of early 20s guys hanging out smoking and drinking. One was a kid I knew since he used to hang a lot with my son when they were in grade school. Fun time catching up with this kid, lotsa chat. Asked him about college and his path. Said he quit school as he was unsure what he wanted etc…convo shifted to girls, dating etc… Guys sharing a bit about how they are not interested in serious dating and what not. I shared just a sliver of red pill knowledge about how women use men, how social, media has changed the paradigm…Lotsa of heads nodding. Suddenly my GF appears as she is ready to go. Convo stops cold and all the guys are smiling. She asks what we were talking about. Mum was the word. Don’t talk about Fight Club. Was funny as hell, pissed her off. Said goodbyes and we left.

    Drive home to drop off GF was less than quarter mile. In that 2 minutes in the car with GF she showed displeasure at me. Probably a mix of being pissed at my flirting and for sure because she saw me looking at Talls long legs several times. My only comment to her pissy attitude was that “I had a great time.” Refused to engage her further

    So in retrospect maybe I shouldn’t have looked at Talls legs so much…damn nice legs though…and Talls was liking the looks. I liked it, fuck it if GF was pissy. I think she was more pissed at how much I enjoyed Redhead lifting her dress high up on her thighs during the boot discussion. Feeling a bit satisfied about the entire evening. Even when my Game slipped here and there with inconsistency I felt like made progress in spiking interest. Was feeling the mojo and things weren’t so forced. The thing about the teeth and Tall’s dress was best, at least I think. My intent was not to deliberately piss off GF, but my behavior and how I felt after dropping off GF with no night night kiss kiss was that I had taken a dose of anti-Oneitis medicine and had pretty much ignored her shit test attitude.

  43. @Roused

    Way to go man.

    “My intent was not to deliberately piss off GF, but my behavior and how I felt after dropping off GF with no night night kiss kiss was that I had taken a dose of anti-Oneitis medicine and had pretty much ignored her shit test attitude.”

    I truly think that gambit will pay off for you. Way to keep Frame.

    I had a similar situation last night. Lose an insignificant small battle and win the war.

    #01 – We are at war.
    Nothing you want to do gets in the way of your relationship, it is innately part of who you are and why the bitch fell in love with you in the first place. We are at war. You’re in situations when you think you’re in a relationship but you’re not in a relationship, you’re in battle. If you give in you’ll never get what you lost back, it’s very hard to get what you’ve lost back if you’re not a “master pimp.”

    http://illimitablemen.com/beigephillipprinciples/

    Seen as a praxeology, this is not cold, callous or contradictory. You are giving your girlfriend a glimpse of you being better at being a man. She is welcome to come along for the ride. It is not a zero sum game. Both of you will benefit in a complementary (not equalist) relationship with a better equilibrium as you remain masculine and if she remains feminine.

  44. Trump is a “faux alpha” many real ways. He beds models who overtly marry him for his money and then move on with a pre-determined payoff. That’s Beta as fuck. He acts like a self-made success, but in fact, started out with a huge real estate holding he inherited. He constantly brags about his wealth and shouts about his value at the top of his lungs and this strikes me as compensating for an underlying insecurity about himself.

    Let’s talk about his real-estate “success”. The continuous rise in U.S. real estate prices is almost entirely due to the asset inflationary policies of the Fed and other govt policies. Simply holding large amounts of real estate for a couple of decades would increase one’s wealth dramatically. It’s a funny phenomena actually, I know guys who do big commercial real estate deals who then try to deploy capital in tech businesses. Their understanding of business is usually infantile and generally such guys are seen as “dumb money” in my world. Happy to take their capital of course, just not their horrible advice. Of course there are exceptions and when one owns hotels and casinos, operational skills are needed but one can hire that talent as its readily available. The major takeaway? There is little innovation involved.

    He is a loudmouth though, but since I don’t really know him in the social circles he actually lives in, it’s hard to see what his real “value” is and how people who are his peers see him. He madly overstates his wealth always (at best he’s worth 4.5 billion and quite possibly much less but always claims 10 billion or more now). He actually has claimed his aging 727 is bigger than Air Force One – uhh, that’s just factually incorrect. One is left wondering what he’s compensating for.

    On the other hand, he’s aggressive and doesn’t get reframed easily. He handles some public shit tests well, but just as often gets wound up and goes ballistic and says incredibly stupid shit in response.

    I think it’s a great thing to discuss actually because he perfectly reveals the weakness of “Alpha” in the first place as a model for human behavior. He’s certainly got some Alpha traits. But then just compare him to say Dan Bilzerian while is also an asshole, I just don’t see him marrying a bunch of models and giving them a ton of cash. He always has a harem around him – where is/was Donald’s harem?

    The Donald also “tries” way too hard. The carefully tailored suits to hide his obesity (he’s clinically obese), the comb over, the entire look is highly managed. But in the end, I think he’s a mixed bag.

  45. @Scribblerg: I think mixed bag is correct. And yes, maybe there’s over compensation….but I think what I also took was the way Larry King et al were referring to him as “just a man”, especially when they tried to make it look like him having hot chics around him was trying too hard.
    Any other candidate would be loathe to even admit that they liked younger hotter women, and that it was natural to do so.
    Things like this is what I caught.

    I hear you though…

  46. “The carefully tailored suits to hide his obesity . . .”

    . . . stopped working when he got to the point where his face became obese.

  47. @KL

    TL;DR: “Please make being a slut completely safe. Please tell Alphas to start submitting to my demands instead of expecting me to do anything to earn them.”

    Typical drivel of the carousel rider looking to make the lane change.

  48. @scribblerg
    Lol Trump is a ‘faux alpha?’

    I love how Dan Bilzerian is your model for an ‘alpha male.’ Meanwhile Mr.Trump, who is far more successful may just be our next president, is a beta. Mind telling me how that works? I would think that being an alpha would have a lot to do with money, fame and power.

    But apparently, the ONLY mark of success for you is how many sluts you can sleep with. Wow, it’s like we’re still in high school.

  49. @ Cave, newly

    Also, if she freaks out and decides she wants you around, beware of her getting pregnant to keep you.

    Frankly, just about any dick can get her pregnant. Doesn’t have to be newly’s.

    Give her lots of comfort and also a strong frame. You want to keep her out of divorce court. Maybe you can talk her into doing a divorce kit.

    Getting a strong frame means having options. Dread. Without a strong frame, your woman WILL abuse you/frivorce rape you. But you can’t let her get ahold of incriminating evidence, including text messages and facebook stuff. Be very careful. Assume that anything you text will end up in her lawyer’s office.

    For any desirable outcome or least undesirable outcome, Dread is necessary.

    Best wishes.

  50. @ KL

    You got there just before me that was on my FB feed this morning absolute disgust as the mincing manboobery in the comments that followed.

  51. @ newly

    since I still want to work things out, I can use something similar to the “Boyfriend Destroyer” routine, but call it the “Wife Divorcing Me Destroyer” routine where I confide in her mother and her aunt and basically tell them that I’ve tried to work things out, I’ve put up with living in separate rooms for 8 years, I’ve put up with her losing her fire for me and basically abandoning me emotionally all this time, but I still want to work things out.

    I’ll explain how women will see this, including your wife’s relatives.

    tl;dr You’re a loser for putting up with this shit. That will be their take.

    You still don’t understand women at all. Women respect/liquify for a man with strength…a man with balls…a man who won’t put up with shit from a woman–especially their own relative. The mother and aunt will tell you what you want to hear, but they will secretly believe that you deserve everything you got BECAUSE you put up with it. You aren’t the good guy in their eyes. Even good girls have this perspective. It’s hard-wired in the feminine psyche.

  52. @Aww, Emily, aren’t you a precious little snowflake…I wonder though, do you realize what an imbecile you are? Just checking.

    You missed that I also said Dan Bilzerian is an asshole. But he also made it through U.S. Navy Seals BUDS training twice (got discharged because of insubordination). He also plays competitive, high stakes poker. He’s also a huge, strong man with a physique you would masturbate to.

    Even more to the point – you apparently didn’t even read what I wrote about Trump above, I said he was a mixed bag and showed why I thought that with some fact and analysis. You should try doing the same, you know, instead of preening about your solispistic ignorance and inanity around as though it’s “knowledge”.

    Figures you are a Trump fan. Shut the fuck up, you silly retard. Go back to making sandwiches and cockteasing that boyfriend of your’s. That’s all your good for.

  53. @newlyaloof, @Andy

    I wouldn’t obsess about dread too much. You might want to get her to the point where she LIKES you again first.

    Let’s fix this:

    @newlyaloof

    I wouldn’t obsess about dread too much. You might want to get her to the point where she RESPECTS you again first.

  54. Took a break from hanging Christmas lights to drink a Christmas Ale and a bit of reading. Was looking for Rollo’s Iron Rules and found this instead:

    http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/03/the-rush/

    Guy dumps his cheating girlfriend live on the radio. So fucking great to hear that play out. Props to Rollo for posting that 3 years ago, shit resonates for a loooong time. Luckily the dude that did the dumping found out she was a cheating ho before the proposal. Not sure I would call it revenge as it was justice. Revenge would have been the dude fucking his ex-GF’s sister or BFF.

  55. @ Pellaeon

    To me though, it seems like a lot of guys are in denial of just how much they want to bond emotionally with a chick. As Rollo says, men are the true Romantics.

    “Yeah man, I just want to fuck pussy. Screw emotions and all that bullshit!” And yet…they’re actions say otherwise.

    For men, emotions can be a trap, so saying “Screw emotions” is in men’s best interests in sexual matters. We’re not saying that we are unemotional–men probably experience more emotional stuff than women do–but that it’s not in our best interests to focus on our emotions. Emotions should work for us, not against us.

  56. @roused

    note that most of stuff like that on the radio is scripted, due to FCC regs

    with your current GF, did you two have sex before the party, or was this a sexless date?

  57. @ IAS

    I don’t have kids and the lack of respect bothers me more than the lack of sex, although that also bothers me.

    Work on your frame so that you can lol when you get a lack of respect. Then backturn her. Go do something fun that you enjoy doing.

  58. @ASD,

    ” See, I think that this is a FI-goggles way of explaining what goes on. If men are sex-initiators and women are sex-responders, then it will seem like they make the decision. Actually, we men make the first decision about whom we want to approach and we might approach several women in a club or have several possibilities that we are pursuing in our networks. Certainly, women have a say in whether or not they will have sex with you. But we men also have a say. How many whales have you bedded? None? I thought so.”

    I really suck at the nuts and bolts, but I’ll take a stab at this. Bear with me.

    Men making a decision to initiate an approach or even sex is secondary to the women’s pre determined decision to whether or not she will be open to sex or even a more casual interaction.

    It is my belief/understanding that chicks wake up in the morning knowing whether or not they’ll be desiring a sexual encounter. I also believe that a vast majority that aren’t previously involved ( bf, fuck-buddy, ons..) are more or less open to an encounter on any given day. How they interpret or react to these thoughts in their head will vary from woman to woman.

    Some women will give more obvious signals, manner of dress and/or flirtatiousness, and just as many will give zero outward hints concerning what is going on inside their heads at a given moments.

    It’s my contention that guys going to clubs to find women for…whatever, often walk right past chicks that are mostly willing to have an encounter. Those HB8’s and 9’s get hit on constantly. Guys are conditioned to focus their attention on these chicks with laser-like precision and it tends to cloud their judgment imo. HB9’s in a club have an agenda. Yet that does not change the fact that this chick has shaved/trimmed, plucked, douched, styled, put on a push-up bra and lace panties/thong ( and taken her birth control if she’s on it ) and skillfully applied her makeup/war paint so that it took her from an HB7.5 to an HB9 in the first place.

    She’s self conscience as fuck probably, but ooohhhhh the validation from all of the attention. This is why she will blow off 20 dudes in rapid succession – constant ” hotness ” validation.

    YaReally has written volumes on how to approach these broads, and I don’t think I can really add anything of substance to what’s already been disclosed. But I will say that I believe that a lot of how to deal with these girls does boil down to your mindset and perception. I honestly believe that many women can smell or detect cracks in guys self confidence. The HB7’s…not so much. My #1 rule is Thou Shall Put No Female On Any Kind Of Pedestal What-So-Ever. There are no really ” Hot ” females really, just like there is no spoon. Perception and Mindset.

    Btw ASD, I have boned a few ” Whales “. I’d never know if I was missing something if I didn’t.

    I wasn’t.

    If I were to try to give any advice that I think would be useful, it would be to see the HB6 and the HB9 the same in your head. Not to offend any of our female readership, but aside from the weird mental gymnastics women perform, they are not all that perplexing. Rollo’s post about Children with Dynamite comes to mind here.

    Let me try it this way ( The more I type, the more I see how much I suck at this….God Bless Rollo and YaReally )

    You waltz into a club, or bar, or Yahtzee tournament.

    There are, let’s say…100 women there ( big assed Yahtzee tournament..). I’d stake my balls on it that out of that 100, there are 25 chicks DTF tonight. Out of that 25, 2 of them are HB8’s. Everybody is looking at the 8’s, including the other lower HB’s. Fellas, the lower HB’s need some validation too. : ) Chat them up as a warm up to going after the HB8’s a little later. Chat them up in bunches. There might be a bitch or 3 in the mix, no fucking worries – keep it moving. Chat up guys there too. Loosen up and get comfortable. Take your time. Work your way into the vicinity of the ” hot ones ” and casually say hi. See what happens, bitch or no bitch? Remember, there are probably 2 dozen chicks dtf, so you’re just aiming higher for the moment to see if you can get something going.

    Now, I typed all of that to say wut?

    As Ya says often, the thing is to go out and do this as often as you can.

    My belief is that doing the above will remove the low confidence smell so that HB8’s cannot detect it.

    The biggest hurdle is changing your perception. Guys do not want to change. Men want to assign so much value to just ” normal ” people. If I could do one thing for my fellow men, it would be to remove the tendency to elevate women because of physical attributes that tell you nothing about this person. It will change the dynamics. Women will relate to you differently. I still don’t think I’m being clear enough and I apologize.

  59. @ SJF

    “Was eyefucked (lasering smile) on Wed by HB9 in a Wendy’s parking lot. Doesn’t mean anything–was just fun.”

    Funny, that just happened to me at the grocery store this morning by a HB6 round about my daughter’s age.

    Very cool! It’s encouraging when young broads give us old farts attention. The HB9 was a passenger in a truck driven the wrong way by a HB7–both were mid 20s, I’d guess. I started watching the whole clusterfuck with amusement sitting in my pickup waiting for them to clear out of the drive so that I could enter. The HB7 looked rattled and then I noticed her passenger and…Wow! I pointed like an English setter. She noticed and pointed back, smiling. It was fun, but our ships merely passed in the night. Guess I could have blocked the drive myself and talked with them a bit. My eyes totally had control at the time, lol, so that my tactical computer wasn’t operational.

  60. @roused

    That video was good shit. Rollo is dead on the article when he asks “How did it make you feel viscerally when she was weeping. Even KNOWING the situation, it’s still a gut punch to hear a girl cry like that. I didn’t feel bad for THAT girl but it immediately hit me that was powerful stuff.

  61. @Redlight,

    Sexless and we both knew it probably would be going into it. We both had things to do with our kids before. Afterwards a bj might have happened in the car had I been Gamed her. When we left my mindset was to be done with her for the night, sex with her wasn’t on my mind. Ignored her all day today, she just texted asking what her daddy was doing and how my day went. Will wait a bit to reply.

    Yes about radio scripting, but I doubt the story was made up. I’ve worked closely with several radio stations, program managers and DJs so yeah I know how the FCC regulates the crap out of programming.

  62. GF is 39, Tall was 36 and had a good 6″ more in height than GF. GF is cuter and has much more sex appeal all around. Tall one had legs that never ended. I’ve openly stated to her many times I prefer short skirts/dresses and tall women. I’m 6’3.” She knows I will enjoy the view if there is something to look at in a skirt. In this case my interaction was much more than just looking.

  63. @ASD: “You still don’t understand women at all.”
    For you to type that makes me feel as though you didn’t read all of what I wrote, or you’re just being a keyboard douche. I understand women quite well these past two years under red pill. And I was never a blue pill pushover even in middle school age. Everything was good until kids popped out.

    What I don’t understand at all is the divorce landscape and a woman at the point that she would leave if not for kids.

    But after some timely posts from YaR, Scribb and others, for the past two weeks I’ve been fantastic in my state. In total control. Wife, kids, commute, work – nothing will ever get me to loose control, or get butthurt ever again. That’s freedom. In that state, I made a milestone yesterday with wife. She would never hook up with me if the kids were not dead asleep. No exceptions ever in 8 years. Yet the other day, I called her into the room about 10 feet away from where the kids were watching television. I said that I couldn’t hear what she was saying and she should come to the room. She knew I just took a shower and she knows that I often try to pull her into the room and grope her. Just one of the things I do. Well, she came to the room knowing what was in store. My tone was different. My state was awesome. I swear I knew I was getting some action.

    She saw me naked. I pulled her in and shut the door and told her to make me cum. She put up token resistance, but starting giving me a hand job anyway. She actually said, “This is so gay.” Yeah, she said that, but she was smiling and doing something she never did before. She must have switches hands 4 times too, but she got me to the point of no return and it was the most intense ending I can remember in years. Stuff flying everywhere. Right before that, I said, “It’s like we’re in high school again.” So, yeah, it wasn’t sex, but she was also on the rag and generally grumpy, so she shouldn’t have done what she did … but she did.

    For me to pull that off was a big one for me. My state won the day.

    Sure, we may get divorced, but I’m preparing for that, and I just may get a lot more action right up until that time. That’s fine with me.

  64. @scribbler
    First, can you stop using the term solipsism incorrectly? Rene Descartes is rolling in his grave.

    It’s just that.. I find it odd that terpers don’t really respect wealth and status as much as how many sluts you have in your harem. True, if we are talking about men who improved themselves from the ground up to be ‘alphas’ then Mr.Trump isn’t the best example, but neither is Dan Bilzerian. His father also gave him a lot of money. He gambled with it and made a lot more. Great, he got lucky, and now he’s rich and is putting up pictures with models, prostitutes and instragram whores who would suck anyones dick for 1,000 followers. Alpha? Only in sheer numbers. Doesn’t really feel like you guys care at all about the quality of the woman who belongs to the alpha, or even the quality of the man himself. It’s all really quite shallow.

    As for marrying rich models… Some men prefer monogamy. Rollo is married, does that make him ‘beta’? Besides, when a man is rich, he’s naturally going to attract more women, and naturally he will go for the most beautiful woman. And even if part of the reason those women want to be w him is wealth and status, does it matter? My stepmom probably married my dad for that reason, but they are both stable and happy. Why is that a sign of being a ‘beta?’

    Anyway… If terpers view Dan Bilzerian as the model for success, rather than Mr.Trump – who is ACTUALLY successful, regardless of all the liberal medias claims about him – it really makes me question whether TRP has any sort of self-improvement message. Which is really the only positive of this whole thing, w/o that you are only left with PUA and misogyny.

  65. Field Report:

    tl;dr I avoided two cockblocks and disarmed a mateguarding attempt. This shows a vast improvement in my real-time skills. I’m developing workarounds for my real-time autism issues. WoooooHoooooo!

    Cockblocks were attempted with three different girls last night, lol. HB6, HB7, HB8. I danced two or three dances in a row with HB6, who I had just met last night, then out come her friends to hijack her away from me, lol. I was about to just let it happen, then something inside of me said, “No way.” HB6 was lasering me as if to say, “Rescue me.” The cockblock was a shit test. I went to her and pulled her away from her friends and she was all smiles. Probably she was well on the way to being DTF. Late 40s broad.

    I’ve known HB7 for over a year. I was dancing with her, chatting her up, and another girl (I’ll call her ‘O’) comes out and stands in our way. I try to avoid O and she moves to intercept. Eventually I grabbed O and started pulling her along and she disengaged and quit. O was obnoxious, but playful. HB7 has always been sweet to me.

    The third set involved two men and two women, previously unknown. I still don’t know their names, lol. First approach, I asked one of the women if she was with a man and she said that she was and indicated which one. I asked him permission to ask his woman to dance and he indicated that it was up to her. So I asked her and she was down to dance, lol. We danced a couple of dances, then I moved on.

    Later, I returned to the same area and there were a couple of blondes there dancing–both HB8s. I didn’t recognize them at the time. I put out my hands to each of them and we did a 3some swing. They liked it. One of them wanted to quit, so I took the other to dance two-step and swing around the room. I dipped her a couple of times and lifted her during two dances. HB8 was laughing and having a ball. Then I dropped her off and went over to the edge of the dance floor where the foursome was sitting. One of the men who partnered one of the blondes told me to find someone else to dance with. I told him that I was just there to dance and that I was married. I disqualified myself to disarm his mateguarding behavior. His demeanor softened, but I didn’t ask his girl to dance again.

    Another man said that he noticed that I danced with a lot of women. This clued me in to be aware that men might feel threatened by me. I likely need to chat up more men and AMOG them to defuse their fears.

    One thing all this cockblocking and mateguarding tells me is that these girls I’m dancing with are getting an emotional roller coaster. Their friends are reading them and seeing this. All this stuff is good for my book.

  66. @ newly

    For you to type that makes me feel as though you didn’t read all of what I wrote, or you’re just being a keyboard douche.

    Ok, I could have been gentler, but you still have a ways to go understanding women or you wouldn’t have considered trying your Wife Destroyer Game. I’m sure you have made progress. Gratz!

    I’m more blunt than anyone here, but I wasn’t just trying to put you down/destroy your ego.

    I could have told you to try it and report results, lol. That would have been an ultimate douche move. Compared with that, what I said was more than benign. It was actually kindly meant to have a good outcome.

    You seriously need to work on your understanding of women, though, buddy. I mean that with the best of intentions.

  67. @scribblerg

    @Blax – It’s well known that women choose and men compete for that choice. However, men are usually triggering that selection by their own actions. There is a consequence to the difference in sex drives between men and women as well, in the sense that it results in men adapting and behaving and evolving to win that competition much more readily than women do. This even shows up in genetics, as male genetics mutate/evolve 1/3 faster than female.

    Glenn I agree with this.

    As I’ve mentioned before, excuse my clumsy attempts at explanation.

    Men trigger the selection, women generally know they ” want ” somebody for some purpose to be determined.

    Personally I never saw other men as competition in my head. they were just ” dudes “. I’d have to think that thinking of guys as competition would add unneeded stress if I happened to be trying to find some sex for the evening.

    There is undoubtedly a massive difference in men and women’s sex drive, to be sure, but once a woman’s mind is in ” sex mode “, the playing field gets a little more leveled.

    It’s also a relative game.Let me try a thought experiment. Imagine you were in a setting where there were only 100 Blaximus’s? How would women’s choice work then? Would you then have to work? This would level out the pre-selection, subcomms etc. How would selection work then? What cues would women look for? How would you act if none of your pre-selection/subcomms were an advantage? Fyi, I’ve heard you work game hard on other women, on the street and stairwell, so I think you are generalizing a bit much on how your interactions with women go.

    Oh shit!!! Lmao!! 100 of me? Well, looks like there’s no pussy for me. I’d assume I would indeed have to work, but I couldn’t tell you what that ” work ” would be, even at gunpoint.

    Subcomms are interesting. I never gave it much thought at all until YaReally spoke about it/them. I still think ( however unreasonable it may be ) that women just pick up on thoughts ( and I am not that comfortable with that assertion at all…nasty, bad thoughts in my head ) and any outward display would be virtually subconscious.

    This past week, I flirted with a checkout chick at a store. It was all in good fun. I liked her hair style, and she was very cute and had a banging body, with the exception of a little pooch. So I was like ” Hey, I’m digging on your hair…very nice…so you’re going natural? I like natural. It fits you well..” Then the devil made me look her up and down. She smiled and quickly told me her ” hair story “. I was holding up the line, so I said ” well, good luck with your ‘do’ ( read her nametag..) Mika. Ima check it out next time I come here..”. She said ” thank you…what’s your name? “. I tell her my name and she says that I have to come in between 10 and 4 pm if I want to see her hair.

    She was 5’7″, about 130-135 pounds, full C cups with prominent nips, and a wonderful sub-30 year old ass.

    If she didn’t outright notice me checking her out ( I try not to be obvious ) I swear she felt it.

    I truly enjoy chicks. I always speak to practically every women I get within speaking distance of. I don’t game all of them, but I do engage them in conversation whenever possible. It’s fun. It makes days more interesting.

    So if there were 100 of me doing exactly that, women’s self confidence would probably rise more than is warranted. Lol.

    If I didn’t have subcomms, or if women couldn’t ” read my mind “, what would I do? Fascinating question. Well, I’d have to get out of my own head for one. I’d have to concentrate more on the content of my conversation…that sounds hard. Now it’s more like Call and Response. No hard escalation, but I want their attention…. I want them to listen…I want them to feel my voice and look in my eyes when they speak to me, I want them to smile, I want them to get closer and I don’t want them to feel threatened or pull away when I touch. If subcomms were nonexistent, I’d get called a creep an awful lot.

    Last. Context is decisive in that it preselects women with certain characteristics. For every “ho” out at the club there a thousand women sitting at home who would never approach you. Also, there is a class of women who prefer black men, again, you are attracting some of them too. My point? The ecology is much more decisive than most men realize.

    Truth.

    But I love women that won’t approach – which is a vast majority. It’s a turn on to put them at great amounts of ease, get those laughs and smiles and playful “punches”.

    Oh, and LMAO, there are certain women who do like black men, but most of them don’t like ” old ass ” black men. : )

    ” My point? Just saying ‘ever woman I’ve banged picked me’ isn’t very revealing”

    I’m trying to figure things out too. YaReally really forced me to look at what I’m saying here. I figure I’m motivating people, but I wind up screwing the pooch. Lol. This is why I’m not a blogger.

    Okay, let’s just say for shits and giggles that the hair chick from the example above decided to sex me. If that’s the case, she would’ve decided that 3 minutes into the conversation, as long as I didn’t say anything that she found offensive. She might have been thinking ” I want this guy to fuck me in the ass..”. but If I say ” Boy, I’d like to fuck you in the ass..”, she would have most likely been HIGHLY offended. Wtf??? She thinks it, it is on her timetable, so to speak. She usually gets to that “place ” in her mind before you do.

    Get her attention. Hold her attention. Her mind will ( most likely ) go there, if she’s considering having sex….which they more often than not, are.

    How bad did I do?

  68. @ Blax

    Thanks, buddy. Lots of good stuff in your comment.

    I’ve interacted with a few HB9s. All were very nice to me. I even banged one of them. HB6s are often nice at first, then shitty to me later since I’m not too interested in them. HB7s can go either way. HB8s are usually nice to me.

    One HB10 was very nice to me and complimentary. She was looking for marriage, but didn’t realize that I was married. HB10 was out with her church friends as wings. I wasn’t looking for more than dancing with her, barring a brief time where I was in auto-birddog mode, lol.

    Mrs. Gamer was an HB10 who had a major bitch shield up when I first knew her. She would barely speak with me, lol. Even after all the other nurses in the unit were flirting with me. Eventually one of the nurses invited me to a dinner party in their apt. and I chatted some with the future Mrs. Gamer there.

    YMMV

    it would be to see the HB6 and the HB9 the same in your head.

    ZFG as to outcome–whether approaching, number-closing, or fucking. HB6, HB7, HB8, HB9, or HB10, makes no diff. (Of course, you might have to neg the HB9 and you don’t want to neg the HB6.)

    Fellas, the lower HB’s need some validation too. : ) Chat them up as a warm up to going after the HB8’s a little later. Chat them up in bunches. There might be a bitch or 3 in the mix, no fucking worries – keep it moving. Chat up guys there too.

    Sure, spend a couple of minutes chatting up a group. Build some social cred.

    Out of that 25, 2 of them are HB8’s. Everybody is looking at the 8’s, including the other lower HB’s.

    Definitely. Did you see what high value I demonstrated by dancing a 3some with two HB8s? Over-the-top confidence to even consider it. Successfully carrying it off? Shizayam! Probably a lot of eyes saw it. If there had been a HB9 there, she might have seen it or been told about it.

    Oh, I got shot down a whole lot last night, too, lol! Didn’t faze me.

    Remember, there are probably 2 dozen chicks dtf, so you’re just aiming higher for the moment to see if you can get something going.

    Sure, build some social credibility and demonstrate some high value. You need those things so that you can game/fuck HB7+.

  69. @Redlight and @Klem – thanks guys.

    Similar points I think.

    Redlight – why didn’t I escalate? You’re right I think – just a form of ego protection. I didn’t have to eject the conversation when I did – I could have stayed in a bit longer even at the beginning and easily isolated the 7.5 (the 7 had already left, so it was just my wing and I with the 7.5) and tried for the number close after a few more mins of comfort, even though it was early. But it was easier to just be like “Umm..well, I’ll see them around later and I’ll try to escalate and makeout then”

    Klem: Yup, I spent so long on opening that now I need to just remind myself that now I need to focus on pushing the interaction forward and escalating and leading her PHYSICALLY as well as chatting and chatting..

    I won’t be going out now for a few weeks due to work/travel/family holidays obligations but I’m making a note of this to remember when I’m back in “going out mode”.

  70. @Roused – good work dude. That read to me like a lot of my own FRs..similar sort of writing style and manner of noticing IOIs and reactions.

    It sounds like you had a good evening and I agree with the other comments.

    One thing I would ask (because it is one of my key weaknesses): what is your Intent in these situations? Do you want to bang other chicks? Do you want to just flirt for validation? Are you trying to develop specific Game skills by doing this? Which ones? Like what are you trying to achieve?

    You’ll do so much better when you have a plan and focus.

  71. @Scribblerg – re working with a wing – see if you can google the old “Wing Rules” they used to teach on the Mystery Method seminar (when it was still called tha t- before they changed the name to Love Systems).

    I think it’s pretty much what you want. This is assuming both of you are actually sarging – like he’s not some buddy come with you to knock back beers and watch you sarge.

    I’m sure YaReally will be along with many more nuances but key points from memory:

    1. Whoever opens the set owns the set (the other guy can go in at the same time or join the guy who opened, but it’s still the same). The guy who approached gets to pick which girl in the set he wants and the other guy’s job is to *help* him – talk to the cockblocks, help him isolate, build up your buddy, brag about him like he can’t do himself and so on. If you can support him, there’s no problem if you actually want to go for one of the other girls (not his target) as that’s ideal – if the two you close two friends. But your job is to help him.

    2. The two of you do NOT compete or fight or snipe at each other in set or try to steal each other’s girls. Not only is it not cool, it massively lowers BOTH your value to the girls. Along similar lines the guy who opens should ideally introduce YOU to the set and bring you in warm – not leave you hanging cold on the edge of the group. Also, remember you two are the most important thing to each other – if one of you speaks the other STOPS talking to the girl and listens – you don’t ignore each other – goes back to value (of course if one or both of you is in isolation with a girl, this doesn’t apply – only a group conversation).

    3. Make up a simple code to identify which girl he wants and you want. The old Mystery Method thing was that the guy who opened would bring you in and introduce you to the girls and say “this is the nice one and this is the mean one” – the mean one is the one he wants (remember to keep the flexibility to switch around later if you change your minds or the girls express a strong preference for the other one etc – the point here is that you shouldn’t be competing for a girl, not that you can’t switch when justified).

    4. Basically both of you are there to pump up each other’s state and help each other.
    I’m sure there’s more you can google but this is the basic stuff.

  72. Hello Rollo and everybody here, I don’t mean to derail this thread but I’m a 27 year old guy from latin america who has been reading your blog for more than a year now, and it has really opened my eyes in many ways regarding the dynamics between the genders. You see I was a skinnyfat weakling beta brony with no drive to do anything.

    Since discovering the red pill I have been improving myself, I workout on a regular basis and although I am very far from being jacked, my body has improved a lot (for example, I was not able to do a single pushup before, now I can do more than 20), I take more initiative on my job and I have more drive to learn more.

    However, regarding all of these improvements I’m still mostly a solitary guy, with little social life and virtually no sexual life, I barely know women other than my coworkers and my friends’ girlfriends. Reading the comments of YaReally in the other previous posts really got into me. I have never worked on my game at all, I told myself to wait until I have more muscles and less bodyfat % in order to start doing it, but transforming a body takes a long time and that lack of a healthy social and sexual life has started to affect me negatively.

    Last night I went solo to a club. I barely go out to that kind of places, the times I did were in clubs of other countries with some cousins, so I was very anxious going alone. I went without some kind of gameplan. I just wanted to go there for a couple of hours and try to talk to some people and maybe some girls. In the end I managed to talk with 2 girls last night.

    The first woman was a 30-something colombian attorney, she was sitting at the end of the counter drinking beer and I was sitting at the middle, after hesitating a lot, I moved to the seat next to her and started talking how the club was very quiet (I went at 10:30), we talked for like 5 minutes, a pretty lame conversation, I managed to say a lame joke there, but other than that nothing else worth mentioning.

    After that I wandered around the place and I ended at the counter again, this time there was a set of two girls sitting right next to me. I decided to approach the girl on my right, again I hesitated a lot, and waited until her friend got distracted on her phone. I opened her asking her opinion the club we were, we talked for like 2 minutes, she ended up being from the same country as I am, after that she went back talking to her friend. I stayed there for 5 minutes. After that I wandered around the club a little bit more and I left. I stayed only 1 hour in the club.

    Despite what I did there was mostly sitting in the counter, I don’t feel awful, in fact I want to go again, and try some pickup stuff (I’m confused now where to start, I’m reading the Mystery Method)

    Sorry to dump you with this shit about myself and this random FR. But after the comments in the past threads (specially from YaReally) has has really helped me to see how I was bullshitting myself by waiting for the right moment to start in the game. I’m stepping my game up, thanks to everybody.

  73. @digireaper

    “Last night I went solo to a club. I barely go out to that kind of places, the times I did were in clubs of other countries with some cousins, so I was very anxious going alone. I went without some kind of gameplan. I just wanted to go there for a couple of hours and try to talk to some people and maybe some girls. In the end I managed to talk with 2 girls last night.”

    2 more girls than you would have talked to if you stayed home.

    “The first woman was a 30-something colombian attorney, she was sitting at the end of the counter drinking beer and I was sitting at the middle, after hesitating a lot, I moved to the seat next to her and started talking how the club was very quiet (I went at 10:30), we talked for like 5 minutes, a pretty lame conversation, I managed to say a lame joke there, but other than that nothing else worth mentioning.”

    Do you remember any shit tests? If so, how did you handle them?

    “After that I wandered around the place and I ended at the counter again, this time there was a set of two girls sitting right next to me. I decided to approach the girl on my right, again I hesitated a lot, and waited until her friend got distracted on her phone. I opened her asking her opinion the club we were, we talked for like 2 minutes, she ended up being from the same country as I am, after that she went back talking to her friend. I stayed there for 5 minutes. After that I wandered around the club a little bit more and I left. I stayed only 1 hour in the club.”

    Her being from the same country as you is a good opportunity to tease/disqualify her and escalate. You could say something like “oh man, I thought I’d be getting away from (Your Country) girls when I moved here. Promise you’re not going to fall in love and stalk me like all of the other (Your Country) girls?”

  74. “What I don’t understand at all is the divorce landscape and a woman at the point that she would leave if not for kids.”

    @newly

    Honestly, if I had to guess you might have a glimmer of hope there. She might be rationalizing that she’s staying for the kids but actually still want you to step up. I have a hard time believing a woman would stay “for the kids” these days. Hard to say for sure though.

  75. Culum,

    Thanks for the observations. You 100% correct about a plan and focus. Here is what I jotted down after I read your challenge:

    Goals:

    – Learn to maintain Frame, but at the same time know when to evoke feelz.

    – Learn to get better at passing shit tests.

    – Become better at soft dread.

    – Create options…maybe pursue a plate or two if opportunity arises. Right now, I’ve got enough on my hands. Juggling a teenage daughter, job, side projects, GF, exercise, dog, yard, time with buddies does not leave a lot of extra time to manage a multi-poon party. Is that an ego buffer? Maybe, I don’t care. It’s my life and only I can determine my goals and ability to achieve them.
    I like getting laid with a hot sexy woman, she gives me a lot of satisfaction. Believe me, I drain my balls in her often and usually unless it’s a quickie we are fully sated. After sex she often will volunteer to prepare food. While she does satisfy me in a lot of ways I must learn how to be a better man and maintain the power dynamic in the relationship. See note above about passing shit tests. Once I’m better at all this those should start to subside a little bit.

    – Practice the basics of Game, learn how to escalate and calibrate. I usually fall flat here. Note to self: revisit cold approach and how to succeed when your mojo is flat.

    – Let her see other women find me desirable. Openly flirt to let her know I’m not afraid to flaunt this if necessary.

    – #16 Commandment of Poon, never be afraid to lose her. Gotta a lot to work on here. While I have flipped the power dynamic and she knows this, I’ve got a lot to learn. Prefer to keep her in the pocket as she is great at sex and has other qualities which I find practical and valuable. Oneitis is still present but I’m not freaking out it about because she loves banging her daddy.

    – Practice getting better at bringing her into my Frame. A Frame that allows me to push the boundaries of our relationship to my advantage. Making myself the valuable prize and damn well making her know that on a consistent basis.

  76. “But apparently, the ONLY mark of success for you is how many sluts you can sleep with. Wow, it’s like we’re still in high school.”

    @Emily

    Oh Emily, I feel bad about making fun of you earlier. Also, I just feel bad for you in general. You need to cut yourself some slack. Sleeping with a few guys in High School or whatever doesn’t make you a slut. It just makes you a human being. There’s nothing wrong with that. Sex is a natural and beautiful thing. Your religion is fucking you up. Why would you want to worship a God that doesn’t accept you for who you were born as? It just seems like a sad way to live your life constantly in a state of self-loathing. I get that there are some good messages in religion, but just try not to take everything as dogma. If you love your boyfriend for fucks sake have sex with him. Or better yet dump him, give him Rollo’s book, and fuck someone else… You’re so young, you’re just wasting time. Get your shit together, learn how to cook, get in shape, get good at sex then when you’re 24 find the highest value guy you can get and lock that shit down. Just even putting a little effort into making a man happy puts you a step above 95% of chicks.

    Your current path isn’t a good one for ANYONE involved. You can choose to ignore my advice and you’ll end up being 35 with 3 kids, fat, unhappy, and bitter at the world(actually you already sound bitter). Then you’ll think back to this moment and think… “I should have listened to that guy Andy. He knew what he was talking about.” Then you’ll think “I bet he was hot too…” Aaaand you would be right.

    Sex != Slut. Have some fucking fun with your life before it’s too late.

  77. “Honestly, if I had to guess you might have a glimmer of hope there. She might be rationalizing that she’s staying for the kids but actually still want you to step up. I have a hard time believing a woman would stay “for the kids” these days. Hard to say for sure though.”

    I think newly has a lot more than a glimmer of hope here. There was an article on CH (or somewhere) about the difference between a guy who comes home to find his shit thrown all over the lawn versus a guy who comes home to find it neatly packed sitting outside the house. The rub was “Which one of these guys is NOT going to get the woman back no matter what?” The answer was the guy with the neatly packed shit, because the woman didn’t have any emotion for him anymore, she was simply done. Putting his shit outside meant no more to her than taking out the trash.

    In newly’s case, it’s possibly a good sign that he still makes her FEEL enough to scream impulsively about him after they get off the phone. Women, as we know, want to feel the full spectrum of emotion. I’m not arguing it’s a GOOD thing that his wife was cursing him after they got off the phone, but it’s better than her being totally indifferent to him.

  78. @ newly

    Even if you’re not listening, this may help other men.

    If a woman has turned nasty on you–even showing contempt–you can still turn this around if you have some ethical reason for not moving on.

    First, train her like a dog, decreasing attention when she misbehaves and increasing it when she behaves properly. This will build up your frame (for you) and status (for her). Do not get angry. Rather, let yourself be bored with her bad behavior or better yet, slightly amused like she is your bratty kid sister who barely gets any attention from you.

    Second, generate preselection. This means having options with other women–not necessarily sex, but having sex clinches the preselection nail.

    Third, get the woman of interest to invest in you. Investment is key here. She won’t want to lose her investment if it has a chance of getting a return. You want her invested enough so that she is chasing you, asking you on dates, paying your way, buying you gifts, etc.

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