Solipsism II

solipsism_II

A comment from Truman gets us started today:

Rollo, it would be great if you could provide some evidence for female solipsism beyond a few examples. From my own experience I could name a few solipsistic women, but I could do the same for men as well, and I’m far from convinced that the trait is universal in women, or even that it’s more prevalent in women than in men.

I will admit that the main reason I split this post into two was because I anticipated this example-seeking. And to their credit my more vocal female commenters didn’t disappoint me with (sometimes over the top) illustrations. If you haven’t had enough of the hamster spinning goodness yet feel free to sift through the comment thread from part one.

However, to begin to work out Truman’s request Voverk from the TRP forum had this example:

One of the most eye opening of the solipsistic world of females was when a plate of mine was giving me directions on where to pick her up. It went something like this:

Her: “When you come to that traffic light, turn over to me.”

Me: “What do you mean?”

Her: “Just turn here towards me.”

Me: “How the hell am I supposed to know which way is that? Left or right?”

Her: “I don’t know. Just turn my way”

She eventually gave directions, but it amazed me how hard it is for a woman to put herself in someone else’s shoes, even if she wants to.

Women’s mental point of origin (solipsism) presumes the entire world outside of her agrees with her imperative and mutually shares the importance and priorities of it.

Just like The Red Pill Lens, it takes a sensitivity to it, but you will begin to notice instances of that solipsism all around you if you pay attention. An equalists, feminine-primary upbringing and acculturation predisposes men to accept the manifestations of this solipsism as ‘normal’, so we blow it off or nod in agreement without really considering it. Most plugged-in Blue Pill men simply view this as a standard operating condition for women to such a degree that this solipsistic nature is pushed to the peripheries of their awareness.

It’s just how women are and women are more than happy to have men accept their solipsism as intrinsic to their nature. It’s excusable in the same sense that women hold a “woman’s prerogative” – she always reserves the right to change her mind. When your default is to accept this social imperative any greater inconsistencies fall into line behind it.

We are conditioned to accept that what best benefits women’s sexual strategy is necessarily what benefits men. On both a social and personal level women’s solipsistic importance presumes, by default, that what best serves themselves automatically best serves men – even when they refuse to acknowledge it. Remember, nothing outside the female existential imperative has any more significance than an individual women will allow it. So, perceptually to women, if a man suits a purpose in her self-primary requirements he must also mutually share in that awareness of his purpose. Thus, she maintains that his imperatives are the same as her own.

Societal Reinforcement

Social reinforcement of women’s solipsistic nature is a self-perpetuating cycle. A feminine-primary social order reflects in itself, and then sustains, female solipsism. For most Red Pill aware men this cycle is apparent in women’s overblown self-entitlements, but there’s far more to it than this.

When men accept and reinforce this socially, we feed and confirm women’s solipsistic natures. When men are steeped in a Blue Pill acceptance of what they believe should be men’s condition, and defend (or ’empower’) women’s solipsistic behaviors or manifestations of it, thats when the cycle of affirmation of this solipsism comes full circle.

Recently I called commenter InsanityBytes to the carpet about her first priority being to defend the Sisterhood when Dalrock published a post critical of a woman’s abortions and another who’d joined Ashley Madison then rationalized it away because she was in a loveless marriage with a man who was in his last days.

This is another instance of solipsism; that a woman’s first directive is to defend her sex’s imperatives even above considerations of religious conviction, marriage vows or espoused personal ideology. That’s the depth and breadth of feminine solipsism, and again, this reinforces a cycle of affirming it in women.

Communication

One of the easiest ways to identify women’s solipsistic nature is manifested in their communication style, and as fate would have it I received a fresh comment from a new female commenter on my interview with Niko Choski. I wont bore you with the histrionics of most of it, but her ending comments serve a purpose here:

I’m not lonely, I enjoy solitude…
I am a whole person who needs no other for my own completion.No man, no woman. The qualities identified by different cultures as male and female…are all mine.
Your obsession with division….iis absurd.

I’ve dug into women’s communication styles on more occasions than I can account on this blog, and with regard to how women defer to their solipsistic nature there is no better way to identify it than in the priorities they give to communicating with men and other women.

From Duplicity:

It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. It’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their personal anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves a universal opposite. By order of degrees, women have a natural tendency for solipsism – any dynamic is interpreted in terms of how it applies to themselves first, and then the greater whole of humanity.

Men tend to draw upon the larger, rational, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel. If it’s true for her, it’s true for everyone, and experience and data that contradict her self-estimations? Those have no bearing because ‘she’s’ not like that.

This personalization is the first order of any argument proffered by women just coming into an awareness of long standing conversations and discussion in the manosphere. It is so predictable it’s now cliché, and each woman’s first retort invariably responds with personalized anecdotes they think trumps any objective, observable evidence to the contrary.

It might be entertaining for Red Pill men to count the instances of personalization in a woman’s rebuttal comment, but it’s not about how many “I”s or “me”s a woman brings to any counterargument – it’s that her first inclination for a counterargument is to use her personal experience and expect it to be accepted as a valid, universal truth by whomever she is presenting it to.

I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.

This is common to feminine communication preferences (and men who’ve been conditioned to opt into a feminine-primary communication mode). Women focus primarily on the context of the communication (how it makes them feel while communicating), while men focus primarily on the content (the importance of the information being communicated). This isn’t to exclude men from using personal experiences to help illustrate a point, but the intent comes from a different motive. That motive is an attempt to better understand the content and information of that issue, not an exercise in self-affirmation that feminine solipsism requires to preserve a woman’s ego-investments (usually her solipsistic mental point of origin).

The most visible manifestation of women’s rudimentary solipsism is the priority with which they expect their personal, existential, experience to be considered the most valid, legitimate and universal truth apparent in any debate.

Middle of the Story Syndrome

One thing I’ve been frustrated with by virtually every woman I’ve ever known in my life is their tendency to begin a conversation in the middle of a story; all the while expecting men to understand every nuance and be familiar with minute ‘feely’ detail that made up the backstory that’s never forthcoming.

I swear, every woman I’ve known has done this with me at some time. The presumption is that their story is of such importance that bothering with any pretext, or outlining and describing the events and information that led up to that mid-way vitally important element that made them feel a certain way is all that  should matter to a listener.

Women have an uncanny way of accepting this when they relate stories among themselves; gleaning incidental details of the backstory as the teller goes on.

There’s an ironic feminine-operative social convention that complains that “men aren’t good listeners” or “men don’t listen” to what women are telling them. This convention is really another manifestation of a solipsistic mindset with regard to communication.

It isn’t that men don’t listen, it’s that our communication styles focus on content information, not the contextual ‘feel’ of what’s being communicated by women. Women, above all else, hate to repeat themselves. Not because of the inconvenience, but because men ‘not listening’ and requiring a repetition of that information conflicts with her own self-primary solipsism.

The want for a ‘good listener’ is really the want for a man who affirms her self-priority by not needing to be told something that confirms that priority more than once. And this confirmation should never require explanation or and understanding of the backstory of events that made it feel important to her.

Women have an inherent pretext in communication that always begins with themselves. In fact, most are so sure of their solipsistic, personal truth that glaring objectivity never enters their minds; at least not initially. As I mentioned in the first installment, women are entirely capable of applying reason, rationality and pragmatism as well as men, it’s just that this isn’t their first mental order when confronted with a need for it. Just as a girl can be taught to throw an object as well as it comes naturally to a boy, a reasoned transcendence above her solipsism, one that considers the individuated existences of others’ experiences takes a learned effort.

Ladies First

Luxocrat had a great illustration as well:

I asked my ex that last month, if her kids came first or if I did. She paused and said “I really don’t know. That’s a hard one.” I replied “Then it’s your kids.” I recall my ex-wife reading one of those save your marriage books right after I made it clear I was leaving. She read me a line in it and said she sees how she was wrong. The line went something like this: “If you want to have a strong marriage, you need to understand your husband comes first, even before your children. They must be taught by you, their mother, that he is head of the household and respect must be given. The only way they’ll see that is by your demostrating by your actions that this is so.”

I still left though.

The irony in this instance is that for all of the humble deference this seemingly good advice promotes, it still presumes a woman is already the primary source of authority who ‘allows’ her husband to be “the man”. I’ve heard similar advice espoused by evangelical pastors making Pollyanna attempts at ‘granting headship’ to husbands and fathers from their reluctant wives. The inherent flaw is that these men already begin from a perspective that women are in a position of unquestioned primacy and require their permission to be ‘men’.

In a way they are unwittingly acknowledging women’s solipsism (and perpetuating the cycle) as a default source of authority. That a woman would need to be taught to defer authority to her husband belies two things; first, her solipsistic mental point of origin and second, that her man isn’t a man who inspires that deference.

It’s easy to see how a Beta man wouldn’t be someone that would naturally prompt a woman to go against her natural solipsism, but in Luxocrats position (I presume Alpha since he walked) there is a conflict women have to confront in themselves.

In a social order that reinforces the entitlements presumed by women’s solipsism there develops an internal conflict between the need for an optimized Hypergamy and the ego-investments a woman’s solipsism demands to preserve it. As a woman progresses towards the Wall and a lessened capacity to optimize both sides (AF/BB) of Hypergamy this conflict comes to a head. The necessities of long term provisioning war with the self-importance of solipsism at the risk of her losing out on preserving both (and having a guy like Luxocrat simply walk away from her).

 

5 3 votes
Article Rating

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Speak your mind

766 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Hey Rollo, Something that’s been banging in the back of my head for a bit. You often say (in this post, for example) that men have been acculturated with a mindset that makes them favor feminine interests and needs. And yet you also often talk about how we’ve been indoctrinated in an equalist, blank-slate mindset about gender. I recognize that the human potential for cognitive dissonance is astounding, but doesn’t this boggle the mind? How is it that both of these elements can come across simultaneously? To my best recollection, when I was still hardcore blue pill I…wasn’t very equalist… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ longgone Thanks. I’ve been feeling a lot better. It’s been interesting being with this girl and having sex almost every day. And observing her behavior and my interaction with her too. Her asking me how I feel about her. Saying that friends with benefits is unacceptable. Pushing for a relationship. Freaking out intermittently. She did comment on how she liked that I wasn’t shaken up at all by her confusion/emotional issues/rants/tantrums. Instead of saying how important sex is to me, or referring to ideas like “men need sex,” etc. — I just go with what Rollo just mentioned: covert,… Read more »

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

Also, thanks Blaximus for the great comments, truly awesome stuff there. I’ve learned so much from comments like that. I try to internalize as much information from here that I can and guys’ personal stories/experiences seem to really help me the most. I’m sure that goes for just about every other guy here too.

Jeremy
5 years ago

@Rollo Tomassi I feel I should add that solipsism in women is expressed in far more passive ways than I think most men are aware of. It’s too easy to think of solipsism expressed in arrogant, entitled bitchiness on the part of women. Oh, absofuckinglutely. Try a mom who hasn’t gotten over the neglect from her father, attempting/using her first two sons in their early years as emotional crutches, never realizing it, and basically claiming that she doesn’t remember doing it to this day. In this instance, I swear she even convinced herself that she was doing nothing wrong, but… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Rollo: “I feel I should add that solipsism in women is expressed in far more passive ways than I think most men are aware of. It’s too easy to think of solipsism expressed in arrogant, entitled bitchiness on the part of women. It’s far more common for that solipsism to be expressed in completely innocent and (on her part) well meaning acts that simply prioritize her experiences as primary. For most women solipsism is so natural that it’s a subroutine running in their headspace, so it’s not malicious acts that manifest it the most, rather her good intentions.” I don’t… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

Hey Softek, Don’t try to push having plates. Strangely enough, that can lead to desperate behavior as well. Don’t have a bunch of plates to start with this relationship? Eh, every man has to be there at least once. Just be the kind of guy who does have plates, to start. Meet other girls, be interested in them, flirt. Don’t chase overtly. Don’t rub your girl’s face in it, heck try to hide it. And don’t run away from circumstances where you might meet plates, just cause you’re in some sort of relationship and content. Be in places you can… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Forge The socially accepted version of “equalism” between sexes is a feminine primary view. All the ways women are disadvantaged are glossed over (she can do anything you can just as well, so long as we use affirmative action to get her hired since she’s not as naturally aggressive and give her a handicap on how we measure her performance and…), but all the ways in which men are disadvantaged are amplified. You have to do all that to make the sexes “equal” from a feminist point of view. They really do have a lower opinion of women than a… Read more »

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

The most offensive thing about third wave feminism’s version of “equalism” is that it manifests itself as a strong desire to deny the vast majority of men a reason to exist in a relationship with a woman at all while leaving them very little reason to exist in society at large.

It’s not just about making the female sexual strategy dominant; it’s about making the vast majority of men redundant.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

Solipsism: The TV Sitcom Speech.

The problem with giving bad news to patients is all about how it hurts her. Was amazing to go back and watch that series through an RP lens. Not a male in it is portrayed as anything other than variations on Homer Simpson. Even the “Alpha” guys are just carefully crafted Betas.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

I watched How I Meet Your Mother the other day. It was unbearable. I am embarrassed that to say I used to enjoy the show.

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

@ Andy

One effect of the Redpill is discovering most entertainment is misandrist bluepill propaganda. On the upside there’s still classic literature. I recommend everything by Alexandre Dumas starting with “The Count of Monte Christo.”

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

There was a young guy earlier asking why you would ever get into an LTR. I don’t know if I’ve fully internalized the Red Pill, but here’s my take in my current state of mind. As far as our legacy we have two choices. Live forever, or procreate. At some point you’re going to want to propagate your magnificent DNA and knowledge of the world. In order to raise your children properly you need to be involved in their lives regularly. Children need fathers. They also need mothers. The best way to achieve this is an LTR. Waking up next… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“I watched How I Meet Your Mother the other day. It was unbearable. I am embarrassed that to say I used to enjoy the show.” It’s fun watching TV and movies now through a red pill lens. I watched “Liar, Liar” with Jim Carrey yesterday. Woman marries an alpha. Alpha screws around on her and uses questionable tactics to get ahead in life. I assume she would of spent years trying to tame him, but the movie does not show that. She divorces said alpha. Alpha goes on without any trouble. She becomes an alpha widow and starts dating a… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Oh, and the beta spends a large part of the movie trying to prove his worth to her. He does all of this through showing his value as a provider, adopting her son, and being kind to her.

The exact opposite of the alpha. The alpha makes her crazy, so the opposite should work to impress her, no??

Lol

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  CaveClown

@Badpainter
“Alexandre Dumas starting with “The Count of Monte Christo.”
That’s one of the greatest story’s in the world. Thinking of giving that to Goldman unleashed but he as chance may have it probably already read it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTTCohXmCE

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgQmMiBErCs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SIPpm3g7aY8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E11SbgwVwvw

Best film version is with Gerald depardeux as close to the story as possible. Going to read that as my next book now that you brought it up.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@ Cave

Hollywood seems to just take plays from old British Literature and contort them over and over again into different forms. That stuff is mostly red pill. I doubt anyone in Hollywood actually understands it.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“CaveClown, Seraph: It sounds like you’re both doing well, but the red pill still has a few punches up its sleeve for ya both”

Thanks forge.

But I fucked my soon to be ex yesterday, so maybe not doing as well as I think. Or maybe this is one of those red pill punches you speak of.

I’m leaving, so now you want sex? Lol!

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Agent P: “I will ask a very specific question, the question is always asked in such a way that the answer, the logical answer, can only be binary, yes or no, true or false and so on. Invariably I get a tangential answer from them, some soliloquy about something or other that of course has to do with her personal experience, her attempt to reframe the conversation but never a simple yes or no.”

This… Nail on head!
Tangential soliloquy…that nicely sums it up!

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Atticus: On the conversation with attorneys….Haha! Wow!

From Illimitable Men:

“IM MAXIM #36: “Marriage is for women and the lined pockets of divorce lawyers, not husbands.”

IM MAXIM #37: “Marriage is security for women at the expense of man’s freedom. Traditionally man was given certain powers to compensate him for the increased burden and loss of freedom. He no longer is.”

IM MAXIM #38: “Marriage is the only legal contract in existence that permits a person to violate contractual terms and then subsequently penalise the party who upheld said terms.”

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

The terms of the contract can also be changed post hoc by a third party.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

But I fucked my soon to be ex yesterday, so maybe not doing as well as I think.

Meh, doesn’t have to mean anything unless you got all gushy afterwards.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“But I fucked my soon to be ex yesterday, so maybe not doing as well as I think.
Meh, doesn’t have to mean anything unless you got all gushy afterwards.”

Not gushy after, but it does fuck with my head.

More worried about the thirst beforehand.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Rollo: “Part of my Red Pill awakening happened when I explained this to some coworker women I worked with at the time and ALL of them took the side of my sister-in-law marrying the millionaire. Their rationale was that she had moved on from her barely in the ground husband and I should be happy for her. I could go into more detail, but essentially these women took the side of a woman they had never met, had no prior knowledge of or had any idea of what her character was like. They were adamant and got offended that I… Read more »

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

IB: “So while Tomassi’s experience with the women at his work may be true, that is not a truth that defines all women or even most of us.”

Q.E…muthafucking D!!

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

@Jeremy: “I swear to god, at some point I’m going to start assuming that Rollo hired someone to act like the very thing he writes about. It’s just too f-ing perfect.”

Hahahahaha!!!! I know right!

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“……tip number 1, don’t think that porn has anything to do with thirst,…just saying.”

I was wondering what that was in reference to until I saw a link to Roosh’s latest childish article anchored by his psychological projection onto other men.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“But I fucked my soon to be ex yesterday, so maybe not doing as well as I think. Or maybe this is one of those red pill punches you speak of. I’m leaving, so now you want sex? Lol!” Heh. I’ve said it before, but breaking up with my old oneitis was the best thing that ever happened to our sex life. For about three weeks. Even if she’s the one that wants you gone, leaving is a massive DHV, and when it’s actually finally happening it inevitably creates some degree of anxiety for her. Not knowing what life will… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

@Sun,

I’ll ponder that a bit. I could be that’s all there is too it. I just took a step back a while ago and realized how surreal this all is. If you imagine the tables turned – where social conventions favored men’s strategies in all cases – you begin to realize we men are living in fucking moon-world.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

@forge had not thought of it as an opp to fuck without getting reattached. I struggle with that with her though, being my old oneitis and all. I didn’t feel good about it at all, plus she’s a poor lay anyway. Clingy, needy, acts like if she “allows me” to fuck her, all will be well. I’ve had way better girl, way better. I don’t expect it to last. Been there, done that. First time we broke up she got me to get back together by swallowing for the first time. Asked me out to coffee, picked her up, she… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

This morning she’s sending me pics of the kids and funny memes by text.

No words, just the pics.

Cute.

I’m ignoring her.

Ang Aamer
5 years ago

Since we are telling Dominance stories… Here is one that happened this week. I had to work late due to an international conference call. Earlier in the day my LTR called me to ask if it was ok to Grill the Steaks I had procured over the weekend. These Steaks were Restaurant quality prime and I was saving them for Grilling but work intervened that day. I said sure go ahead but save me two for when I get home at night. So she and her kids had a feast while the man hunter was stuck in the Jungle… sigh… Read more »

Striver
Striver
5 years ago

Going through my divorce, I never had much problem getting empathy from women. Best was probably a lesbian co-worker. Of course, exe’s cousin is bisexual, and the cousin talked the ex into the divorce. So who knows if that makes a difference. You need to talk to them one on one though. Never in a group. It sounds like Rollo talked about his brother in law in a group. Never talk with women about anything of substance in a group. Need to isolate even for that crap. It is the long term stuff that would be an issue for me.… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

I yell loudly WHERE ARE MY STEAKS! I agree if something she’s done has made you angry enough to yell, yell. It happens rarely for me though. For me it’s mostly little things. Telling her she’s cute when she says something stupid. Gentle swat her on the butt in public. Calling her baby. Mansplaining. Someone said women like that. My wife does too. I think if you have alpha frame it’s soft dominance. I also think that chivalrous things like opening the door, pulling out the chair, etc is soft dominance in an alpha frame, yet white knitery in beta… Read more »

fleezer
fleezer
5 years ago

“Her- Giggles, what?? Me- Takes her by hand and pulls her to bedroom. Sex ensues.” Blaximus has it. This is the frame. Me: “Now.” (+ THE LOOK). Wife won’t even respond with words. She’ll stop what she’s doing and it’s on. It’s been like this since the first week I was fucking her. “I either show her my dick and tell her I need this to stay in peak operating condition” I show her mine once a day on average. Out of nowhere, for no reason. I say something like “later.” Then I put it away and get back to… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Good call rollo, I will be more careful.

So yesterday with no condom and trusting she took her pill was probably stupid…

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

@fleezer
Acting like you’re not “one of those guys” who wants it right away is bs and a mistake. She’ll only respect a guy who not only wants it right away but takes it right away like it was always his.

Nice…

@caveclown
Hey my sister had my nephew that way so be careful.

@Forge the sky
Spot on brother

@Andy
Ahahhaha that just makes me laugh reading it. “Not the face not the face”

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@CaveClown:

Jeezum Crow! Don’t do that, man.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

It’s sort of a habit. I’ve never used anything but the pill with her.

I caught her skipping pills after our first breakup too. Went ape shit on her.

I should know better.

We already have two kids together.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

I don’t do that with fb’s though. I flush my condom, if I blow on them I ensure it gets cleaned up and flushed or washed out, or I have em swallow.

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“So yesterday with no condom and trusting she took her pill was probably stupid…” Oh. Fuck yes, that’s stupid. I’m looking for silver linings and useful perspectives for ya here, but it sounds like she’s able to get to you a bit too much for you to just learn from the circumstance. No shame in that, you’re just not quite to a point yet where you can make this a good circumstance for you. This woman leans BPD right? If so, she’s masterclass at manipulation. And you’re just learning. The biggest weapon you’ve got is that you’ve played this game… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

CaveClown – never, ever under any circumstances leave BC fully in a woman’s control! I’m married to a woman that has kids and doesn’t want more and I still keep track of BC. Pills are hard to track and easy to “forget” accidentally. As a single guy, its sager to assume any woman will trap you with a baby, so always wrap that shit. Or get snipped and take chances with VD.

Oh and for the conspiracy nuts out there: don’t leave the used condom in her trash. Flush that baby battered bitch.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Yes, still in same house on my lawyers advice.

Leans BPD is an understatement, I’ve seen her walk manipulative circles around counselors and psychologists alike. Nimitz class manipulator.

I can’t go out tonight. But I have been going out a lot. Even got three bangs in since May, and one girl I see fairly often. (Don’t worry, no oneitis here. I don’t really like her but she is a great lay)

I will keep checking in here.

Thank you forge and rollo , and everyone else that has chimed in.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago

@Caveclown Was thinking on how Andy made me alight with that wife joke so I found the closets clip on my response. Red pill awareness and positive masculinity doesn’t have many models of it self in present cultural kind of how Forge mentioned the masculine imperative and how that comes off as a far off place in the distance of things. Cave don’t let her do that to you again. Not because your still living with her but because she may have another plans at predicting what you may do and what she can do to actually keep you. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7NzTETH4pz4… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

nice clip rugby, thanks for taking the time to post all that. Like I said, master manipulator. I could go on for hours about her manipulations. But it doesn’t do any good. Nothing is ever her fault, and if she is admitting something is her fault, then I know i am in for a wallop of a twist in reality. It’s quite something to watch a marriage counselor put his/her hands up and say “time out!”, then ask the wife to repeat something, and it changes that fast. Then when the counselor calls her out on the change, it ends… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@Clown

Sounds familiar. The one I dated was similar. The funny thing is she was one of the most unintelligent people I’ve ever meet and somehow she could get people to do whatever she wanted. She tried to get me to help her move 3 months after I broke up with her. Then threatened suicide again when I said no…. Things will only get better.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“@Clown Sounds familiar. The one I dated was similar. The funny thing is she was one of the most unintelligent people I’ve ever meet and somehow she could get people to do whatever she wanted. She tried to get me to help her move 3 months after I broke up with her. Then threatened suicide again when I said no…. Things will only get better.” She has threatened suicide many times, always to get her way. She doesn’t threaten that anymore though, because she would “do that to me but not the kids” (her words) As for raw intelligence, “book… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

As for raw intelligence, “book smarts” as it were…she’s probably the smartest woman I know.

Shit, that’s a scary thought…

dutchman
dutchman
5 years ago

@Clown

“You know, I really do love you…right?”

Sounds credible to me!

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

When I told my mother I was divorcing her, she said, “Do I need to worry about the kids’ safety with her?”

FML

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Be careful man. Ever seen Dear Zachary? BPD’s are fucking scary. Do not assume there would be any goodwill. If it appears there’s goodwill it’s because she’s manipulating someone.

dutchman
dutchman
5 years ago

@Rollo, Clown,

http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/06/professional-mothers/

I have an ex who swore from the get go that she never wanted kids, yet she was vehemently anti-condom. It’s been a decade and a half, and she still has no children. Wassupwitdat?

theasdgamer
5 years ago

DON’T BE AFRAID to display anger when it suits you.

Girls need drama. See my post about relationships.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@Clown

I know I just mentioned it, but you really need to watch Dear Zachary. Then have your lawyer watch it. You need to take precautions man.

http://www.dearzachary.com/

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“I know I just mentioned it, but you really need to watch Dear Zachary. Then have your lawyer watch it. You need to take precautions man.
http://www.dearzachary.com/

I assume she kills the kid too?

This is one of the reasons I am still in the house. So far things seem fine.

Gah!

Seraph
5 years ago

First, I don’t remember who wrote it in this thread, but they joked that it seemed like trolls, old and new, descend here just when MEN are actually getting into a useful discussion with each other. I swear I was thinking the same thing, and I wonder how much of a coincidence it really is. It is like there is a small cabal lurking, evaluating the threat level we pose at any given moment, and they then send in the keyboard commandoes to try and derail the discussion. It’s funny, but also a little disturbing if one thinks about it,… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Yeah… a fucking true documentary is the scariest film I’ve ever seen.

cervantescthree
cervantescthree
5 years ago

@Blaximus Yes. Being red pill aware has allowed me better navigate the FI and its societal incarnations. Agreed, but I would say red pill awareness gives you the tools to acquire what you genuinely want. By applying what I understand I believe I have faired better than that of a blue pill man. Here’s a contrast: I’ve grown up alongside school friends and watched them gradually begin to exist in a different world to me. We’re in our 20s now, and when they say that they’re working extra hours so that they and their partner can live comfortably; I say,… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

M Simon sometimes says: Pay attention. It’s the hardest thing you’ll have to do.

When you’re autistic, it’s incredibly hard to get those cues processed real-time. You almost have to be looking for them at the time, expecting them to appear. Otherwise, you figure it out during Monday-morning quarterbacking. Helpful for what to look for next time.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

These R&B songs tell a lie -_- you can’t even expect a woman to crack a joke, let alone be fun)

You just need to set some expectations. What she is expected to do. Bring vids, jokes, and booze.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Mrs. Gamer isn’t by nature a party girl, but she will joke around with me in private.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

If you’re in a relationship, every now and then for no apparent reason, pick up your woman and whirl her around. Make it a surprise.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

There must be some sort of relation between guys that have experience with BPD and finding the Red Pill. Something we google.. I don’t know.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“There must be some sort of relation between guys that have experience with BPD and finding the Red Pill. Something we google.. I don’t know.”

Lol

I remember exactly what I googled back in 2011 that lead to my starting the red pill journey.

“how to tell if my wife is a bitch”

Found MMSL first, then RM a bit later…

Vitriol
Vitriol
5 years ago

@cervantescthree “But, I have to say here that pursuing women, the thought of it even, has become exhausting, so I worry I may not put in the energy to start an LTR . My circle calls this burnout: “running game”and sleeping with women for so long, and then realizing it doesn’t amount to much. At the age of 23, just knowing I can fuck a girl is enough to satisfy me – most of the time – let alone actually sleeping with one.” I guess I’m kind of an anomaly in the sense that I don’t “enjoy the chase” when… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

If you have to whip out your d1ck to interest your woman, you’re doing something wrong. Mrs. Gamer frequently grabs my package (10-20 times per day).

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Rollo, You know how many times I have read that BPD essay? Lol My wife is diagnosed BPD or NPD (they can’t really differentiate that well) along with a diagnosis of severe anxiety disorder and major depression. So essentially as it was explained to me, she is a BPD that is unable to express the extreme emotions a normal BPD usually expresses. Instead of explosive anger, she stews in it until she lashes out at those around her, but she does so subtly. Eventually persons like her find a consistent outlet for their anger in the form of constant subtle… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

Painful to relive. I don’t remember what I googled, but I found David DeAngelo I believe was the guy’s name in 2008. Got me 80% of the way there. Not enough though… Married the first chick after the BPD. At least it was alpha frame. Didn’t find RM until a few months ago.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Yeah, painful, mostly embarrassing for me. Here is how big a beta chump I have been…yikes.

She doesn’t matter though. Her BPD, all that…who cares.

I am no longer into her, so I’m out.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  CaveClown

@caveclown http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GVbE2dGAjAI Oh hell (don’t bang her) the kids matter and the violence your trying to protect I grew up with but in the long run your mental agility is what your (sons) if you have sons as opposed to girls will look deep into when shit hits the fan. I grew up coping with my dad appeasing my mothers emotional rage. It made it hard to learn to deal with shit test and function socially. Sons in general are more luckily to cope and create ways to manage a dysfunctions household if they need to. (Not married but looking… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

I find talking about this stuff to be very embarrassing.

Mine would fuck me and then tell me after that she fucked some other dude earlier in the day. And I stayed with her. Doesn’t get much more embarrassing than that.

Culum Struan
Culum Struan
5 years ago

YaReally – tried posting this on CH but even my two-line posts are going into endless mod now, so posting my FR/question here because this is mostly about the laser eyes stuff you posted about on RM a few weeks ago: 2 Questions re laser eyes and the Question Game I’ve been trying to actively practice laser eyes – looking at girls eyes with bedroom eyes while she yaps on, till she trails off, speaking slower and lower etc. Trying actively not to stare. All in the last few days. I’ve only tried it twice (consciously) but I’m having trouble… Read more »

cervantesscthree
cervantesscthree
5 years ago

@theasdgamer “You just need to set some expectations. What she is expected to do. Bring vids, jokes, and booze.” Vids and and jokes yeah. Booze is a no for me, but I replace that with good music. “If you have to whip out your d1ck to interest your woman, you’re doing something wrong. Mrs. Gamer frequently grabs my package (10-20 times per day).” Fact. @vitriol “ . . . the whole process of chatting up random girls and trying to get them to actually go somewhere with you or show up at a certain time and place is a pretty… Read more »

Ross Kneale
5 years ago

My mistake, I meant @rugby11ljh

cervantesscthree
cervantesscthree
5 years ago

Excuse me, my mistake, I meant @rugby11ljh (Don’t know why my previous comment is under Ross Kneale)

Sam
Sam
5 years ago

By your definition, all humans are solipsistic. It is human nature to first see situations through one’s own eyes. Also, for someone who suggests that individualistic ‘not me’ arguments are an illustration of this, you use a pile of individual experiences as proof of concepts. In fact there is a great dearth of peer-reviewed sstudies of any sort…what does seem to be a strong theme is us versus them, a rallying of the troops, inflammatory propaganda styled language…well, call me a hippy (although I expect some pseudo-intellectual version of pussy), but I refuse to partake in your war.

A Definite Beta Guy
5 years ago

Sam, I do not see a situation first through my eyes. I see a situation first through how the world operates. Today my Account Manager called me out of the blue, and said she needed me on a call in 5 minutes with the new manager over in India. My thought is, okay, we are training the new guy. The Old Woman isn’t doing so well, we need to make the New Guy can effectively review accounts, or else we’ll be stuck with a few years of no progress. Again. The New Guy did a pretty effective job. I had… Read more »

Seraph
5 years ago

@Sam, By your definition, all humans are solipsistic. It is human nature to first see situations through one’s own eyes. That is NOT the definition of solipsism, to “FIRST see situations through one’s own eyes”, whether you go with the definition from Merriam Webster: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing; also : extreme egocentrism …or how we define it here, which is pretty much along those lines when it comes to woman’s innate solipsism. By definition, solipsism only allows people who suffer from it… Read more »

Dragonfly
5 years ago

Saw this yesterday on The Peaceful Wifehttp://peacefulwife.com/2015/09/10/dont-tell-your-husband-i-am-only-respecting-you-because-god-says-i-have-to/ … wives being instructed to start respecting their husbands, but to be “secretive” in not coming right out and saying that they still do NOT respect them and that they’re just doing it because God wants them to. Even if that is their real reason. The writer is truly wonderful in my opinion… I’ve had private discussions with her before, on even life path considerations for myself; I’m not trying to blast her here, this is just a good look into what a woman thinks – or how she thinks she should instruct… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  Dragonfly

@Sam
“The war is interested in you.”
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cyL9gKSc8G4
Narcissus was once walking by a lake or river and decided to drink some water; he saw his reflection in the water and was surprised by the beauty he saw; he became entranced by the reflection of himself. He could not obtain the object of his desire though, and he died at the banks of the river or lake from his sorrow.

According to the myth Narcissus is still admiring himself in the Underworld, looking at the waters of the Styx.
https://m.soundcloud.com/mahdy/01-tool-vicarious-h8me

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

Men can never be alpha widow.
ALL women are Alpha widows.
This is why women need solipsism.
In her head, the beta / provider have to give and keep on giving , because (in her mind) she chose him over the alpha and (in her mind) that is a sacrifice on her part .

Men don’t think like that, Sam.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

Sam
” you use a pile of individual experiences as proof of concepts. ”

Sam! You are a pussy.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

We men don’t believe we deserve a princess.
All women believe(solipsism) they are entitled to deserve a prince. Sam.

Striver
Striver
5 years ago

Men: Any sex is good sex. Women: None of the sex I have is good enough. It is sort of hard for me to really understand, EMPATHIZE with the position of a woman being a man. Having easy access to sex and complaining about the quality. I mean, I get it, get why the genders are that way, but to really realize that it’s never going to change… Those are the limits of knowledge and the red pill. Knowledge about things you cannot change is not always such a good thing. Maybe sometimes men and women were happier in their… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

Dragonfly – “April’s post instructing wives to not tell their husbands what they really think of them (that they don’t respect them at all), so that they can make their husbands think they truly do honor and look up to them was a little shocking to me. I understand she’s trying to look out for the husband’s ego or feelings, but it’s blatantly telling women to pretend to respect your husband to make him believe you actually do, so that the woman benefits in the end (with her husband not knowing any better, and apparently with God since she’s ‘doing… Read more »

Dragonfly
5 years ago

Badpainter… I think women have a hard time understanding that men are like that **because** women have a less ingrained sense of duty, especially now in feminine-primacy society. Therefore, April has to teach us women to fake it. So even though a woman may despise her husband, she’ll try to respect him because its the right thing to do. It reminds me a lot of negotiated desire, which is what prostituted sex is (and indeed, April actually compares it exactly to that in her post when talking about why men hate duty sex). This is duty respect, or negotiated (in… Read more »

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

Striver
“Men: Any sex is good sex.
Women: None of the sex I have is good enough.”

For men, Sex with one HB 10 is worth 60 HB6.

Women would fuck the alphas non stop.
A 15 years old would fuck Johnny Depp 24/7.

keyser Soze
keyser Soze
5 years ago

These wives she’s talking about actually disdain their(( BETA Un sexy)) husbands… you can’t suddenly make them pretend to become women who adore their ((Zero tingle))husbands… that is… unless they have a serious motive(($$$$$))..

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  keyser Soze

@Dragonfly http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_EDMTDvO6s The environment plays a huge part. Nothing I grew up with being told ever came from a realistic position in how the world actually operated. Not sure how female actual are I just learned red pill truths by blunt force and Emotional validation. http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/413820/Taming-Of-The-Shrew-The-Movie-Clip-A-Husband-For-The-Elder.html The cat and mouse beings respect maybe by telling a good story to your grand kids once you get in a long term relationship. But all I see is quick sex and romance hasn’t time to have its own story. You can’t force respect with will especially with religion and think the person won’t… Read more »

bluepillprofessor
5 years ago

@Caveclown: I remember what I typed to find MMSL and then TRP and TRMl:

“My wife is a disrespectful cunt and won’t fuck me.”

Embarrassing- no shit.

alexzukov
5 years ago

Mathematicaly speaking all women don’t use linear transformations and every woman are isomorphic.

cervantesscthree
cervantesscthree
5 years ago

@Striver “The question has been asked “Why have a LTR?” I don’t regret my LTR/marriage. Basically, it was something to do. I do love my children, and the kids were part of the deal. There are only three choices, LTR, PUA, or MGTOW. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I think the latter two feel secure and safe nowadays. But red pill men die every day. You can’t take the red pill with you; you die with your knowledge. This is not to say that my marriage was not financially expensive. I have certainly paid for the sex and the… Read more »

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

@ Dragonfly There is a good form of duty sex, and it’s the sort used by lane changers to lock down their Plan-B men, the sort of duty sex where the man is conned into believing that she actually is attracted to him and not exclusively his provisioning. Thus we know all women are capable of putting on a good face and doing the fucking job properly. Men only hate duty sex because the frigid shrews that provide it do so with poor attitudes, open disrespect, and no sense of duty. Duty sex is bad because women do everything they… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“What on earth… maybe I’m just seeing these things differently now than I used to before. I know April has a beautiful heart for marriages and has helped many men and women, but I can totally see how this is women’s way of explaining their secrecy away (rationalizing it) in the guise of helping the husband be the leader and the wife respecting him. Or doing the right, biblical thing” “It reminds me a lot of negotiated desire, which is what prostituted sex is (and indeed, April actually compares it exactly to that in her post when talking about why… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@bluepillprofessor: ” “My wife is a disrespectful cunt and won’t fuck me.”

Embarrassing- no shit.”

I understand. That’s a horribly crude search string, but search engine AI algorithms have grown more sophisticated lately and it appears to have gotten the job done, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“There is a good form of duty sex, and it’s the sort used by lane changers to lock down their Plan-B men, the sort of duty sex where the man is conned into believing that she actually is attracted to him and not exclusively his provisioning. Thus we know all women are capable of putting on a good face and doing the fucking job properly.” All sex is duty sex for women. She’s doing so in the duty to please her hypergamous instincts. The question is whether she is fucking you for the beta provider “security” side or the alpha… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Wow, what an amazing thread. Real work to get through but very worth it. So many gems, a few comments in no particular order. @Rugby – That Samurai poem is priceless. I’ve just worked my way through 5 months of living from crisis to crisis in my business and finances due to reshaping my business, without breaking a sweat more than once or twice. Whatever the circumstances, I’m water, there is always an advantage to be sought, there is always a lever I can pull, there is always a place for me to stand powerfully. Fyi, the result? Billing at… Read more »

scribblerg
scribblerg
5 years ago

Re: Power – Power is. Power is the fabric that envelopes us and drives all our behavior. Most people today don’t understand that. The social justice warrior radfem I coach told me “power is unnecessary”, lol. Fyi, due to my coaching she’s having amazing breakthroughs in her life. For those of you who’ve sought to dismiss me as not caring for women, note that I never even fucked this one. She’s an interesting experiment (of a new coaching modality I’ve developed) and connection for me, but most importantly is DHV/social proof in a social circle of young hotties I’m trying… Read more »

SGT Ted
SGT Ted
5 years ago

Related to Topic: Women’s solipsism causes them to reject scientific evidence they don’t like.

“The data showed that, in tenure-track hiring, faculty prefer female job candidates over identically qualified male ones….”

Some critics saw in our findings a disavowal of their own experiences with academic sexism. Even though our study examined only entry-level hiring, they viewed it as invalidating biases they faced outside the hiring context and as an attack on their advocacy for women. But data from multiple studies using different methods kept revealing the same striking preference for hiring women.”

http://chronicle.com/article/Passions-Supplant-Reason-in/232989?cid=megamenu

SGT Ted
SGT Ted
5 years ago

What is new is how delusional women are. They have taken that behind the back crap and now play it out openly. Many actually believe that women are superior to men, claiming they can “multi-task” or are smarter, or have more “emotional intelligence”. Notice though, that they never say they work harder or are more brilliant or creative or disciplined – the things that actually are most important to getting shit done.

Fucking GOLD!!!

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Holy fuck I have learned a lot from this thread.

Good stuff scribblerg.

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

@scribblerg @ 10:14 am

one of the very best comments I have ever read here, thanks!

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

I found my way to MMSL in late 2009 by typing in “why did my marriage fail?”. Sad thing is, I was looking for the answer because I’d met my current wife a few months before and didn’t want to repeat the mistake. ROFL, I got married again so I guess I’m thick headed… But I DID find the answer. 😉 Anyway MMSL led me to HUS (otherwise known as the blog of which we do not speak) and thankfully from there to TRM and beyond. CaveClown – don’t sweat the embarrassment. I feel like a total tool to this… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Seems like my rss feeder doesn’t like when there are more than 400 comments lol.

Thanks Ted.

I’m embarrassed because there are no victims in this game, just volunteers.

Oh well…onward!

One thing this divorce has made me realize is how fearful I am. Yuck.

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

CaveClown – “One thing this divorce has made me realize is how fearful I am. Yuck.” Fix that shit pronto! I am absolutely unafraid of divorce today. I’m doing everything I can to avoid it, but if tomorrow my wife showed up with papers in hand, I’d embrace the hurt and chaos knowing I’d survive, and come out the other side with a brand new chance to start over. Nothing to fear at all. And, that allows me to manage my marriage as I see fit, which is exactly how I can avoid divorce. It becomes a positive feedback loop… Read more »

766
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x
%d bloggers like this: