Solipsism II

solipsism_II

A comment from Truman gets us started today:

Rollo, it would be great if you could provide some evidence for female solipsism beyond a few examples. From my own experience I could name a few solipsistic women, but I could do the same for men as well, and I’m far from convinced that the trait is universal in women, or even that it’s more prevalent in women than in men.

I will admit that the main reason I split this post into two was because I anticipated this example-seeking. And to their credit my more vocal female commenters didn’t disappoint me with (sometimes over the top) illustrations. If you haven’t had enough of the hamster spinning goodness yet feel free to sift through the comment thread from part one.

However, to begin to work out Truman’s request Voverk from the TRP forum had this example:

One of the most eye opening of the solipsistic world of females was when a plate of mine was giving me directions on where to pick her up. It went something like this:

Her: “When you come to that traffic light, turn over to me.”

Me: “What do you mean?”

Her: “Just turn here towards me.”

Me: “How the hell am I supposed to know which way is that? Left or right?”

Her: “I don’t know. Just turn my way”

She eventually gave directions, but it amazed me how hard it is for a woman to put herself in someone else’s shoes, even if she wants to.

Women’s mental point of origin (solipsism) presumes the entire world outside of her agrees with her imperative and mutually shares the importance and priorities of it.

Just like The Red Pill Lens, it takes a sensitivity to it, but you will begin to notice instances of that solipsism all around you if you pay attention. An equalists, feminine-primary upbringing and acculturation predisposes men to accept the manifestations of this solipsism as ‘normal’, so we blow it off or nod in agreement without really considering it. Most plugged-in Blue Pill men simply view this as a standard operating condition for women to such a degree that this solipsistic nature is pushed to the peripheries of their awareness.

It’s just how women are and women are more than happy to have men accept their solipsism as intrinsic to their nature. It’s excusable in the same sense that women hold a “woman’s prerogative” – she always reserves the right to change her mind. When your default is to accept this social imperative any greater inconsistencies fall into line behind it.

We are conditioned to accept that what best benefits women’s sexual strategy is necessarily what benefits men. On both a social and personal level women’s solipsistic importance presumes, by default, that what best serves themselves automatically best serves men – even when they refuse to acknowledge it. Remember, nothing outside the female existential imperative has any more significance than an individual women will allow it. So, perceptually to women, if a man suits a purpose in her self-primary requirements he must also mutually share in that awareness of his purpose. Thus, she maintains that his imperatives are the same as her own.

Societal Reinforcement

Social reinforcement of women’s solipsistic nature is a self-perpetuating cycle. A feminine-primary social order reflects in itself, and then sustains, female solipsism. For most Red Pill aware men this cycle is apparent in women’s overblown self-entitlements, but there’s far more to it than this.

When men accept and reinforce this socially, we feed and confirm women’s solipsistic natures. When men are steeped in a Blue Pill acceptance of what they believe should be men’s condition, and defend (or ’empower’) women’s solipsistic behaviors or manifestations of it, thats when the cycle of affirmation of this solipsism comes full circle.

Recently I called commenter InsanityBytes to the carpet about her first priority being to defend the Sisterhood when Dalrock published a post critical of a woman’s abortions and another who’d joined Ashley Madison then rationalized it away because she was in a loveless marriage with a man who was in his last days.

This is another instance of solipsism; that a woman’s first directive is to defend her sex’s imperatives even above considerations of religious conviction, marriage vows or espoused personal ideology. That’s the depth and breadth of feminine solipsism, and again, this reinforces a cycle of affirming it in women.

Communication

One of the easiest ways to identify women’s solipsistic nature is manifested in their communication style, and as fate would have it I received a fresh comment from a new female commenter on my interview with Niko Choski. I wont bore you with the histrionics of most of it, but her ending comments serve a purpose here:

I’m not lonely, I enjoy solitude…
I am a whole person who needs no other for my own completion.No man, no woman. The qualities identified by different cultures as male and female…are all mine.
Your obsession with division….iis absurd.

I’ve dug into women’s communication styles on more occasions than I can account on this blog, and with regard to how women defer to their solipsistic nature there is no better way to identify it than in the priorities they give to communicating with men and other women.

From Duplicity:

It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. It’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their personal anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves a universal opposite. By order of degrees, women have a natural tendency for solipsism – any dynamic is interpreted in terms of how it applies to themselves first, and then the greater whole of humanity.

Men tend to draw upon the larger, rational, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel. If it’s true for her, it’s true for everyone, and experience and data that contradict her self-estimations? Those have no bearing because ‘she’s’ not like that.

This personalization is the first order of any argument proffered by women just coming into an awareness of long standing conversations and discussion in the manosphere. It is so predictable it’s now cliché, and each woman’s first retort invariably responds with personalized anecdotes they think trumps any objective, observable evidence to the contrary.

It might be entertaining for Red Pill men to count the instances of personalization in a woman’s rebuttal comment, but it’s not about how many “I”s or “me”s a woman brings to any counterargument – it’s that her first inclination for a counterargument is to use her personal experience and expect it to be accepted as a valid, universal truth by whomever she is presenting it to.

I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.

This is common to feminine communication preferences (and men who’ve been conditioned to opt into a feminine-primary communication mode). Women focus primarily on the context of the communication (how it makes them feel while communicating), while men focus primarily on the content (the importance of the information being communicated). This isn’t to exclude men from using personal experiences to help illustrate a point, but the intent comes from a different motive. That motive is an attempt to better understand the content and information of that issue, not an exercise in self-affirmation that feminine solipsism requires to preserve a woman’s ego-investments (usually her solipsistic mental point of origin).

The most visible manifestation of women’s rudimentary solipsism is the priority with which they expect their personal, existential, experience to be considered the most valid, legitimate and universal truth apparent in any debate.

Middle of the Story Syndrome

One thing I’ve been frustrated with by virtually every woman I’ve ever known in my life is their tendency to begin a conversation in the middle of a story; all the while expecting men to understand every nuance and be familiar with minute ‘feely’ detail that made up the backstory that’s never forthcoming.

I swear, every woman I’ve known has done this with me at some time. The presumption is that their story is of such importance that bothering with any pretext, or outlining and describing the events and information that led up to that mid-way vitally important element that made them feel a certain way is all that  should matter to a listener.

Women have an uncanny way of accepting this when they relate stories among themselves; gleaning incidental details of the backstory as the teller goes on.

There’s an ironic feminine-operative social convention that complains that “men aren’t good listeners” or “men don’t listen” to what women are telling them. This convention is really another manifestation of a solipsistic mindset with regard to communication.

It isn’t that men don’t listen, it’s that our communication styles focus on content information, not the contextual ‘feel’ of what’s being communicated by women. Women, above all else, hate to repeat themselves. Not because of the inconvenience, but because men ‘not listening’ and requiring a repetition of that information conflicts with her own self-primary solipsism.

The want for a ‘good listener’ is really the want for a man who affirms her self-priority by not needing to be told something that confirms that priority more than once. And this confirmation should never require explanation or and understanding of the backstory of events that made it feel important to her.

Women have an inherent pretext in communication that always begins with themselves. In fact, most are so sure of their solipsistic, personal truth that glaring objectivity never enters their minds; at least not initially. As I mentioned in the first installment, women are entirely capable of applying reason, rationality and pragmatism as well as men, it’s just that this isn’t their first mental order when confronted with a need for it. Just as a girl can be taught to throw an object as well as it comes naturally to a boy, a reasoned transcendence above her solipsism, one that considers the individuated existences of others’ experiences takes a learned effort.

Ladies First

Luxocrat had a great illustration as well:

I asked my ex that last month, if her kids came first or if I did. She paused and said “I really don’t know. That’s a hard one.” I replied “Then it’s your kids.” I recall my ex-wife reading one of those save your marriage books right after I made it clear I was leaving. She read me a line in it and said she sees how she was wrong. The line went something like this: “If you want to have a strong marriage, you need to understand your husband comes first, even before your children. They must be taught by you, their mother, that he is head of the household and respect must be given. The only way they’ll see that is by your demostrating by your actions that this is so.”

I still left though.

The irony in this instance is that for all of the humble deference this seemingly good advice promotes, it still presumes a woman is already the primary source of authority who ‘allows’ her husband to be “the man”. I’ve heard similar advice espoused by evangelical pastors making Pollyanna attempts at ‘granting headship’ to husbands and fathers from their reluctant wives. The inherent flaw is that these men already begin from a perspective that women are in a position of unquestioned primacy and require their permission to be ‘men’.

In a way they are unwittingly acknowledging women’s solipsism (and perpetuating the cycle) as a default source of authority. That a woman would need to be taught to defer authority to her husband belies two things; first, her solipsistic mental point of origin and second, that her man isn’t a man who inspires that deference.

It’s easy to see how a Beta man wouldn’t be someone that would naturally prompt a woman to go against her natural solipsism, but in Luxocrats position (I presume Alpha since he walked) there is a conflict women have to confront in themselves.

In a social order that reinforces the entitlements presumed by women’s solipsism there develops an internal conflict between the need for an optimized Hypergamy and the ego-investments a woman’s solipsism demands to preserve it. As a woman progresses towards the Wall and a lessened capacity to optimize both sides (AF/BB) of Hypergamy this conflict comes to a head. The necessities of long term provisioning war with the self-importance of solipsism at the risk of her losing out on preserving both (and having a guy like Luxocrat simply walk away from her).

 

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Seraph
5 years ago

I personally know of two men who offed themselves over losing their wives to other men.

One hung himself in a shower after eating a pizza, and the other literally drank himself to death ala Nick Cage in Leaving Las Vegas.

Me? I might be pissed, but at this point I would view it as liberating. I might also go to Vegas, but it would not be to drink myself to death if you know what I mean…

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Lh, thanks for the help.

Emotional fulfillment for a beta is more external validation of worth than anything. So men like myself need to understand that the emotional fulfillment they seek from a woman is not only false because women are not ably to provide that, but false because nothing except themselves and their mental point of origin can provide that.

The beta man and all his “giving” is inherently selfish I think. He is trying to get that which he feels he deserves. Not shaming them…because I am one!

Mike Hawk
Mike Hawk
5 years ago

@CaveClown – I feel the same – just trying to absorb all of it and make some sense out of it. If you want to be in a LTR, the main thing would be having to accept how women are and don’t set your expectations too high. I don’t expect my dog to have conversations with me about politics and when he doesn’t I’m not disappointed. Just don’t expect too much or invest too much and put yourself first… IDK I’m still trying to figure it out myself lol

Jeremy
5 years ago

IB: Suicide by beta males is confusing and distressing, but ultimately I can do nothing about it.

IB: Men who love themselves will turn into a smell coming from my attic.

So basically, according to a truly disturbed woman, all men must die, and all men must serve. She must be a George Martin fan.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

So men like myself need to understand that the emotional fulfillment they seek from a woman is not only false because women are not ably to provide that, but false because nothing except themselves and their mental point of origin can provide that.

I think this is why some people are religious. I agree though. You are not fully a man until you internalize that. My sons will know this at much younger age than I.

Seraph
5 years ago

“Emotional fulfillment for a beta is more external validation of worth than anything. I have come to realize more and more that this has been a significant problem and stumbling block for me. So men like myself need to understand that the emotional fulfillment they seek from a woman is not only false because women are not ably to provide that, but false because nothing except themselves and their mental point of origin can provide that. I think there is a hell of a lot of wisdom in this, painful as it is. I think if you can appreciate women… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  Rollo Tomassi

@Rollo
“The most emancipating part of a Red Pill awareness is the unlimited potential you have as a man to define what works best for you. I think that freedom scares a lot of guys at first.”

That’s the thing about your work that’s so intense to process. Building creating and working on it all has essentially unlimited potential.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

I’m thirsty as fuck, so no help here lol!

(Ok, I’m not that bad, but I’m a rookie at pickup and such. These are my first fuck buddies ever)

honeycomb
honeycomb
5 years ago

I love how grown men can’t read the tea leave’s … (read the comments to understand how many blue pill beta men responded)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3228385/Sandra-Bullock-looks-like-giddy-teen-new-romance-heats-new-boyfriend-s-bad-boy-past-starting-emerge.html

lol … some minds can’t be reached.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” I still lean towards considering women as just a wet hole. Surely there is more, even as a red pill man?” It’s attached to a womb, but bear in mind that that can only have value to you under a social system in which you have default ownership of its product. Take away your sex drive and you tell me what particular value a woman, and only a woman, would bring to your life? ” . . . relationship . . .” No man coined that term. It is pure and unadulterated product of the Feminine Imperative. You want… Read more »

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@Caveclown “Emotional fulfillment for a beta is more external validation of worth than anything. So men like myself need to understand that the emotional fulfillment they seek from a woman is not only false because women are not ably to provide that, but false because nothing except themselves and their mental point of origin can provide that. The beta man and all his “giving” is inherently selfish I think.” That’s a hell of a good thing to ponder on. Being blue pill is selfish because you dot become yourself and share it with someone. What upsets me about myself is… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Take away my sex drive and what value does a women have to me?

Chores, tending children, tending the sick and dying.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Key elements were to you personally and only a woman.

Men can do chores, you don’t have children (she does) and the Grand Dame of nursing didn’t have a very high opinion of the ability of women to tend the sick and dying:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1fpmzf/florence_nightingale_women_have_no_sympathy/

See also man flu:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_flu

Men want women, but they don’t need them. Women don’t want men, but they need them, because women supply children, but men supply needs.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Freedom scares a lot of guys?

Honestly for me, it’s more like guilt than fear. Probably the same thing.

Like I’m choosing to be selfish rather than selfless. But, I understand how unhealthy that is. Gotta change the internal narrative.

Softek
Softek
5 years ago

@ Caveclown Referring to Rollo’s article “You Need Sex”…it’s just a basic need. Thirsty Betas equate sex with emotional fulfillment. They’re different. IMO it’s a need for men to be regularly engaged in sex with women who desire them. Not hookers, not prostitutes, not porn — having real sex with real women based on one thing: genuine desire. My emotional stability has been completely level now that I’m having sex on a regular basis. It’s no coincidence. Now the hard part for me is not getting sucked into the ONE-itis trap, not falling for shit tests trying to get me… Read more »

lh
lh
5 years ago

“The beta man and all his “giving” is inherently selfish I think. He is trying to get that which he feels he deserves. Not shaming them…because I am one!” Yeah, kill the beta! You seem to be on a good way. Serious Oneitis needs time to heal. But if you say “the beta is selfish” I’ll disagree. And I think you got trapped in a female frame and her solipsism there. Women think the beta is selfish. Because in their solipsism short-circuit at some point there is “I would be selfish to take all his sacrifice for me” but also… Read more »

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

My struggle is being your own MPO when you have kids. I need to raise them the way the need to be raised which means seeing them every day. Otherwise, yeah, I’d be in Vietnam with a harem of beauties.

Vitriol
Vitriol
5 years ago

@Rollo “That doesn’t mean women are only useful as wet holes; they have the potential to be much more than that, but just like I said about solipsism, that potential needs instruction.” As you pointed out in the original article, the conditioning that women receive from their culture really can destroy any kind of useful instruction they might receive about how to actually be a decent person. Usually by the time a person reaches adulthood their personality isn’t going to change much. I’ve met women from lots of countries. They’re all opportunists. However, usually the American ones have such horrible… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@lh: If the beta didn’t want something, he wouldn’t be pursuing it.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago

@Vitriol
“I think something akin to the MGTOW thing really is the most sensible option in that kind of an environment. Especially when you also considering the legal ramifications around child support, divorce, domestic violence, cohabitation etc.”

That in a way is where I am at in my culture and country.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

As beta as I am, I still lean towards considering women as just a wet hole. Surely there is more, even as a red pill man?

Gamer Maxim: “Pussy is just pussy.”

Seraph
5 years ago

“@Seraph, tip number 1, don’t think that porn has anything to do with thirst,…just saying.” Yeah, I am getting that. Untangling it for myself is kind of like sorting out a fucking box of jumbled Christmas tree lights, but I am getting it. Just today I was reflecting on my desires, and I had to admit sex was not the priority, which was tripping me up, and has been for oh so long. “I think there is a hell of a lot of wisdom in this, painful as it is. I think if you can appreciate women for what they… Read more »

theasdgamer
5 years ago

Considerring women for no more than sex feels unhealthy. What does a healthy red pill relationship look like? I suppose I will find out through trial and error.

Lots of Dread and comfort. Expect drama and provide validation. And flirt when she seems stable.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@Seraph: “Why?”

You got it in one.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  kfg

@Seraph
“You want better results out of women, you have to get better results out of yourself.

You have the freedom, but also the responsibility.

THAT’S the Burden of Performance.”

At 14 I would have killed to have internalized that.

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@Not Born This Morning September 10th, 2015 at 9:53 am @Caveclown also Mental point of origin and Frame are not power. And you personally can have great gifts and assets that a women wants, but the women still has to end up being a quality person. A quality person that either keeps on being quality (so you still want her) and/or can keep seeing you as vital to her life and experience (so she still wants you). Hey you can’t control all the variables in your life or your relationship. All the positive mindset in the world might not get… Read more »

lh
lh
5 years ago

kfg
September 10th, 2015 at 2:02 pm

“@lh: If the beta didn’t want something, he wouldn’t be pursuing it.”

Sure, taken to the extreme that is true. But in this sense breathing is selfish and there is no way not to be selfish. And at that point calling someone “selfish” is no useful distinction anymore, it’s meaningless.

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

From the amused mastery post: “A presence of Amused Mastery puts you into a position of maturity while still remaining playfully approachable and forcing her to qualify to you by acknowledging your mastery of her (really all women by association).” I spent far too much time on a woman that would not qualify herself to me.(wife) Occasionally she would, but not often. She has always attempted to get me to qualify to her. She followed a set pattern of escalating manipulations to get me into qualifying myself: 1. Withhold sex/affection 2. Sabotage something at home 3. Undermine my work 4.… Read more »

Seraph
5 years ago

@rugby

“At 14 I would have killed to have internalized that.”

You and me both, homey…

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“Mental point of origin and Frame are not power.”

The foundation for power. I can’t have power over myself if I have no frame to hold it.

And that really is where I fail, having power over myself.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

So far women have been MUCH easier than her. The hardest part is overcoming the mindset I have that allowed me to stay with someone like that.

The others are definitely easier. I can’t imagine having kids with a BPD. I dated one for 6 years. Ugh. Took me three tries to break up. Finally decided I couldn’t take it anymore whether she committed suicide or not. She didn’t.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

“Take away my sex drive and what value does a women have to me? Chores, tending children, tending the sick and dying.” Cavey:- it’s like this. ” Egil became totally blind. One day in winter when the weather was cold, he went up to the fire to warm himself…. “On your feet!” said the woman. “Get back to your place and let us do our work.” Egil stood up, walked over to his seat, and made this verse: I flounder blind by the fireside, Ask females for mercy, Bitter the battle On my brow-plains.” This was a man who, in… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“Yeah, kill the beta! You seem to be on a good way. Serious Oneitis needs time to heal. But if you say “the beta is selfish” I’ll disagree. And I think you got trapped in a female frame and her solipsism there. Women think the beta is selfish. Because in their solipsism short-circuit at some point there is “I would be selfish to take all his sacrifice for me” but also “everything has to serve me” and “I’m a good altruistic person” and the best solution is to attribute the selfishness to the man, who by act of sacrifice already… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“The others are definitely easier. I can’t imagine having kids with a BPD. I dated one for 6 years. Ugh. Took me three tries to break up. Finally decided I couldn’t take it anymore whether she committed suicide or not. She didn’t.”

I’m on break up #3 as well, year 14. There will not be another.

Every single woman in her family has attempted suicide at some point.

Apparently none of them are any good at it…

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Tam the Bam

Crazy story, never heard that before. That’s some cold shit right there.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

I’m on break up #3 as well, year 14. There will not be another.

Congrats man.

lh
lh
5 years ago

“I’m not sure about the beta is selfish thing. Maybe I am projecting my own feelings onto the beta population as a whole. I dunno.”

If that is the issue, just understand: selfish is good. Be as selfish as you can. It’s the birthright of every living being actually and everyone trying to shame you for that just wants to be more selfish than you. Don’t let them fool you. Being selfish is alpha.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@lh: There ya go! The beta isn’t being altruistic, he’s simply using a different strategy to fulfil his perceived needs. Part of the strategy is to pretend that he isn’t doing anything of the kind. The alpha owns it.

Vitriol
Vitriol
5 years ago

@lh “If that is the issue, just understand: selfish is good. Be as selfish as you can. It’s the birthright of every living being actually and everyone trying to shame you for that just wants to be more selfish than you. Don’t let them fool you. Being selfish is alpha.” The idea that always being altruistic and putting the needs of others ahead of your own will get you somewhere is one of the main tenets of blue-pill conditioning. I honestly believe the ideas we get taught that “meekness is a strength” and “turn the other cheek” and such related… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

It’s the old sailor’s maxim; One hand for yourself, one hand for the ship. A hand lost is a peril to the ship.

lh
lh
5 years ago

“The beta isn’t being altruistic, he’s simply using a different strategy to fulfil his perceived needs. Part of the strategy is to pretend that he isn’t doing anything of the kind. The alpha owns it.” I don’t think it has value to discuss it as a moral question. In my opinion the beta fell victim to the hormonal weapons of women and his own addiction to the desire to be loved or maybe just Oxytocin? An addiction often already created and enforced by the mother. You can say the beta is weak. But having the need to condemn that weakness… Read more »

Jeremy
5 years ago

Re: reasoning versus logic… Since Dean Jones recently passed away… A scene from one of his zanier (from when zany was a word) movies… The 1968 comedy, “Blackbeard’s Ghost”. I couldn’t find the clip on Youtube, it seems youtube is now aggressively demolishing anyone who dares post their favorite tiny clips of movies. The scene is this, there’s a woman playing roulette in a room with some men around. She’s trying to win money quickly to deal with a fairly desperate financial problem… – Evening, folks. – What goes on here? – You tell me. Woman: We’re doing fine. We’re… Read more »

play don't pay
play don't pay
5 years ago

Just had a thought about female Lawyers, Commonly thought of as the biggest cunts known to man.
They must spend a large part of their working lives being forced to think logically to be effective at their job, this probably goes a long way towards explaining their cunty disposition outside of work hours.
Fighting their natural solipsistic mental schemas must extract a heavy psychological cost on the poor snowflakes???

Jeremy
5 years ago

Lawyers? Logical? Don’t make me laugh. Maybe trial lawyers may have to think logically at some point, but never ever expect logical arguments to come out of any random lawyer. Mostly their job is to spout good-sounding arguments that make you stop and question your own.

The retired lawyers that I know have stories that lead me to believe that the law of the land in the U.S. is still decided in smoky rooms with copious amounts of alcohol. Strangely, this makes me feel better about things.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

@lh: “You can say the beta is weak . . .” But I didn’t. @Jeremy: “Blackbeard’s Ghost” I’m rather a fan of Peter Ustinov and Susan Plescette was a bit of a cutie back then. “I couldn’t find the clip on Youtube, it seems youtube is now aggressively demolishing anyone who dares post their favorite tiny clips of movies.” It’s a Disney movie. Don’t cross The Litigious Mouse. @Play Don’t Pay: “They must spend a large part of their working lives being forced to think logically . . .” Lawyers aren’t interested in being right. They are only interested in… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

Suzanne Pleshette wasn’t chopped liver either. Actually, I rather like chopped liver. Go figure.

DocG
DocG
5 years ago

In Truman’s example in the OP, the woman’s — or plate’s, as he psychopathically calls her — directional confusion and initial inability to explain her location is far better explained by spatial orientation difficulties, common in women, than “female solipsism.” Of course in a worldview where only one explanation is always considered for everything, solipsism rules — but it’s not women’s. Tomassi: Don’t look now (not that it would help), but your whole blog is an expression of your own solipsism. Your “knowledge” of women is 99% projection of your own shit, including your fears and prejudices, which your fellow… Read more »

play don't pay
play don't pay
5 years ago

@ Jeremy
So you belive that trial lawyers rely on “feelz” instead of case law, legal precedents and logical analysis of the evidence? Family courts being an obvious exception.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@Rollo 4 men commit suicide for every 1 woman. The reason? Loss of investment for men will always have more dire consequences than for women. Well, that and we’re better at it because we take it seriously. Women “attempt” suicide at twice the rate of men, but they’re far more likely to fail since it’s a “cry for help” in their case. When a man decides shit’s gonna end, it’s gonna end. He doesn’t want help, as his needs have probably been ignore all his life anyway. He has no expectations anyone will ever give a shit, unlike a woman.… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

“However, thinking that way leaves me with a cold heart. As beta as I am, I still lean towards considering women as just a wet hole. Surely there is more, even as a red pill man?

Considerring women for no more than sex feels unhealthy. What does a healthy red pill relationship look like?”

Are you required to think of any individual woman or women in general as a wet hole or not just a wet hole?

If so, where did this requirement come from and who mandates it?

Chump No More
Chump No More
5 years ago

“I know it stresses guys out and I know they feel kind of rudderless when they unplug, but from my perspective I’m happy for them because I see the eventual potential.” Rollo, I can’t agree with this more… IMO, the red pill is ALL about understanding and accepting yourself and being successful in life, NOT with women… they’re just a perk of being awesome, period. BRP, I was angry, bitter, depressed, directionless (& 100 lbs heavier). ARP, I’m content (happy is over-rated, IMO), confident, focused, passion-filled, and driven. If somebody told me on the day of my unplugging that my… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

It is as if you are limited to a binary choice? Who mandates this choice for you?

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@play don’t pay

To quote what one of my lawyer friends told me:

“If the law is against you, bang on the facts. If the facts are against you, bang on the law. If the facts and the law are against you, bang on the table.”

Damn right lawyers in a jury trial lean on feelz if it’s all they’ve got available. There’s a reason they try to stack juries with a particular demographic; they want people that empathize with their position.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

@CaveClown:- True story, bro. Seems he was in the final stages of Paget’s disease. The locals dug up his bones years later, and the priest did an experiment to test the legend of his un-cleavable pagan skull, which had served him so well in battle. Stuck it up on the cemetery wall and whacked it with an ax or a spade, just whitened/powdered the bone a bit. At least an inch thick, the pain must have been grotesque as the disease progressed, hence the short temper. http://www.academia.edu/1963938/The_Skull_and_Bones_in_Egils_Saga_A_Viking_A_Grave_and_Pagets_Disease A real live insanely alpha man, who died despised and in misery among… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

It is uncanny how even those of us who are red pill aware still have a tendency to evaluate ourselves and our circumstances from an FI frame. Some of you will undoubtedly think, “Well, speak for yourself” and I don’t blame you if you think that. But, carefully examine what you write and think and you will see how sometimes you still limit yourself by not maintaining perspective outside that box.

Andy
Andy
5 years ago

@DocG

Whew, someone needs to get laid.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

DocG:- you utter tit. Weaseling at its most mustelicious. “In Truman’s example in the OP, the woman’s — or plate’s, as he psychopathically calls her — directional confusion and initial inability to explain her location is far better explained by spatial orientation difficulties, common in women, than “female solipsism.” What about the other near-identical anecdotes? Including (hem-hem) my own? No compass-reading involved. As one girl somehow unwarily femsplained (under my incessant, spergy-yet-compassionate prodding due to astounded curiosity; she was momentarily upset at her forgetting all about an old friend who had recently died after a long illness, 2 doors along.… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

Was DocG implying that saying ‘women love opportunistically” is calling them whores and sluts? I thought whores got paid in cash, and sluts did it for free? What’s love got to do with it?

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” . . . mustelicious . . .”

Now there’s a word I don’t run across more than three or four times a week. Kudos.

farmlegend
5 years ago

agent p-“In a parallel scheme I also find the following to be true when dealing with children and women. I will ask a very specific question, the question is always asked in such a way that the answer, the logical answer, can only be binary, yes or no, true or false and so on. Invariably I get a tangential answer from them, some soliloquy about something or other that of course has to do with her personal experience, her attempt to reframe the conversation but never a simple yes or no. If I am feeling impatient I will reframe the… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

“Are you required to think of any individual woman or women in general as a wet hole or not just a wet hole? If so, where did this requirement come from and who mandates it? It is as if you are limited to a binary choice? Who mandates this choice for you?” No one mandates it. I was talking about my feels! My feels man! lol I score VERY high for Machiavellian traits and narcissism, but very low on psychopathy. I tend to think of people as “how can I use this person?” Shitty, but there it is. To answer… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Doc G said:
“I’m under no illusion that you can rationally (or at all) process what I’m saying here, but then I’m not saying it for your benefit.”

Hey guys! I think he means it’s for OUR benefit!

*yawn*

Badpainter
Badpainter
5 years ago

Andy – “Whew, someone needs to get laid.”

Probably too difficult shielded in armour and white surcoat. And the weight of self righteousness probably impedes blood flow to the nether regions.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

Tam the Bam

“Irish/Scots and aristocratic romanised Welsh knights around like they were milkmaids.”

Your fantasy conflicts with history and reality. Review the truth.

http://www.ireland-information.com/articles/brianboru.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Boru

The truth is the Irish ran the Vikings asses out of Brittan after a period of time during which the Vikings never really dominated them.

Even the Romans could not conquer the Scotts and Irish. Two Roman emperors built 2 walls to keep the Scotts out of England because too many romans and Englishmen were getting their arms, legs and heads hacked off by the extremely barbaric Scotts.

http://www.aboutscotland.com/hadrian/

http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/antoninewall

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“I think he means it’s for OUR benefit!”

He?

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

“To answer your question, I don’t have an answer. I find myself unable to find a balance between those 2 binary choices.”

That belief some men hold concerning those choices is feminine defined and it is a distraction contrived to keep us from recognizing the fact that it is we who define what we are we who decide and how they will serve us.

Sun Wukong
Sun Wukong
5 years ago

@DocG

You need to schedule an appointment with your proctologist. That stick ain’t gonna remove itself from your ass.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

…it is we who define what we are and we who decide how they will serve us.

sorry for the typo

Seraph
Seraph
5 years ago

Doc G said: “I’m under no illusion that you can rationally (or at all) process what I’m saying here, but then I’m not saying it for your benefit.” Hey guys! I think he means it’s for OUR benefit! As a trusty and loyal sycophant, I don’t really see how I can benefit from listening to him, do you? I mean, what kind of sycophant would I be if I allowed myself to be dissuaded by every Tom, Dick and Doc who wandered in here trying to turn me away from my obviously delusional and self-destructive adherence to the quackery of… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

SJF –

“Hey you can’t control all the variables in your life or your relationship.”

And who would want to? Other than someone who is not in control of himself ?

lh
lh
5 years ago

Seraph is the winner.

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

CaveClown – “To answer your question, I don’t have an answer. I find myself unable to find a balance between those 2 binary choices. I think I am just finding my ground after this whole marriage ending thing. And the divorce shall drag on for months more…” Brother that IS your answer. You have plenty of shit to deal with, why stress over how you view women right now? If you have no use for them, don’t get involved with them. If at some time you find a new interest in engaging with women, pursue it. NBTM’s comment nails it:… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

teddi,

I am familiar with you from your time on athol’s forum. Glad to see you here man.

You’re right, you’re right.

Sex, but other than that there is no use for them right now.

theasdgamer
5 years ago

DocG, you’re ugly and a whale and you couldn’t arouse a man who had just been released from prison.

Ang Aamer
5 years ago

Where did the DocG troll come from?

It’s so odd how they pop up when the discussion gets interesting and meaningful. It’s like a bat signal (or bat-sh!t crazy signal) goes up like a flare.

ALERT ALERT a group of men are waking out of the MATRIX ALERT ALERT

can’t have consciously aware men out there … might be dangerous for Miley’s new album. carry on.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  Ang Aamer

@kfg “Part of the strategy is to pretend that he isn’t doing anything of the kind. The alpha owns it.” “It’s a Disney movie. Don’t cross The Litigious Mouse.” That mouse has huge teeth and defines copyright ever century oddly allowing then to profit of non copyrighted material that then gets copyrighted under them @lh “An addiction often already created and enforced by the mother.” Always wondered if that was abusive or just neglect. @Tam the Bam That story is going to give me the best dreams in this heat this evening. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnar_Lodbrok @A.F.O.R Holy hell I just did that… Read more »

teddj4g
teddj4g
5 years ago

CaveClown – I’ve been a reader of TRM since those days and never really left. I just went through a period where I had to work out my own shit. “Sex, but other than that there is no use for them right now.” You may find that you never have another use. In that case, I’d say proceed on that path. If we want to get all moral, you can get into “leave them better than you found them” or maybe going pro. But at the end of the day making yourself engage with a woman, any woman past where… Read more »

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

“Sex, but other than that . . .”

. . . there would be no The Rational Male, because there would be no “male,” or “female.” The sexual imperatives of the sexes are about sex. There may be more to a woman than a moist hole in that she is also a person, but a woman is a moist hole and a “wo.” A man is a dick.

And we are all, the lot of us, just a bunch of fuckers.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

NBTM:- Au contraire, old chum, I know exactly what I’m talking about. Exactly. Your relative chronology is basically mythical. Do some reading-up, it’ll be a blast, and far more entertaining than that basically 18th-century tripe you’re promulgating. And who the fuck are the “Scotts”? AFAIK they’re the biggest landowners two parishes over, of Anglo-Norman antecedents. The others are hyphenated, and of lesser primacy. I worked for Historic Scotland, or rather it and its forbear SDD-AM as a contractor and consultant for I guess 15 years, as well as the quondam Museum of Antiquities, now the Royal Scottish Museum (in the… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Ted & NBTM

Wise words, thank you.

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

Tam the Bam –

Very interesting. What about the 2 walls? They still stand today. Why were they built ?

Jeremy
5 years ago

@play don’t pay So you belive that trial lawyers rely on “feelz” instead of case law, legal precedents and logical analysis of the evidence? Family courts being an obvious exception. Here’s an example, you might call it proof by counter-example. I am an engineer. I’ve published physics papers. I work with PhD’s in various science and engineering fields every single day. I can count on one hand the number of science or engineering trained/educated people I’ve ever seen make it onto a jury. I’ve never made it onto one. I know some guys who’ve been rejected so many times they’ve… Read more »

Not Born This Morning
Not Born This Morning
5 years ago

Tam The Bam –

Sincerely thanks for your input. Very interesting, very very interesting read here, and I get your point.

http://www.scottish-history.com/origins3.shtml

But…I still don’t buy the Viking tossing my ancestors about like rag dolls. That is still your fantasy..LOL.

kfg
kfg
5 years ago

” I can count on one hand the number of science or engineering trained/educated people I’ve ever seen make it onto a jury.”

They found out about my knowledge of and attitudes toward jury nullification early on, and I’ve never been called for jury duty since.

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

“What about the 2 walls? They still stand today. Why were they built ?” To delimit the unprofitable wastelands of the Caledonii (&Other Picts, as the classical writers dismissed them) from The Empire. A centuries-long differentiation between the uncivilized brittunculi Up There who’d been intellectually consigned to the outer darkness by Rome, and the biddable (as in: utterly crushed) britons of the valuable agrarian zone Down Here, who were at that time of the same native brythonic/gaulish ethnic/tribal continuum. Tell you what, here’s a good blog which investigates them on occasion, the whys, hows and wherefores, and has my complete… Read more »

longgone
longgone
5 years ago

Seraph, Cave Clown

“….thirst is something really impeding me.”

And women can sense just the barest hint immediately. It’s my biggest obstacle to learning enough game to spin plates (besides my age ha). I’m reminded of the blind woman in Red Dragon who describes a male co-worker as a walking hard-on….

longgone
longgone
5 years ago

Softek,

You’re sounding better all the time.

redlight
redlight
5 years ago

@tam

what I don’t understand about the Wall is how it can be 300 miles long, but manned by less than 1,000 MGTOW

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

All women I’ve encountered in my life are solipsistic. The degrees vary from woman to woman. Women can be taught to lessen the degree of solipsism they indulge in. Anecdotal example #4086 – First wife very seldom exhibited ” bubbled ” behaviors. It very well could’ve been that putting me ” first ” was, in fact, part of her solipsism, but she did not display self centered and narcissistic tendancies…in the first 12-13 years of our relationship. Knowing what I know now, this was due to the manner in which I engaged her on a daily basis. As the years… Read more »

Tam the Bam
Tam the Bam
5 years ago

Say wut? the Wall is 73 miles total, net of shore forts trailing away at the ends. I can drive along it (or rather the A69) in a couple of hours max. Topically, it used to have a load of Syrians doing I guess punishment-battalion duties on it at one point. Poor bastards, facing down all those nudey tattooed freaks surging out of the perpetual fog and darkness. Long way from sunny Aleppo, shouldn’t have joined up if you can’t take a joke. Some of them definitely married locals, and presumably spawned clans of proto-Geordies in Pons Aelius/Segedunum, the women… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

Blaximus

Thank you for that. That was excellent.

What you wrote is the template I have been using and it is working well for me.

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  SJF

@Blaximus First of all you and Badpainter a way of telling life the way it is that I’ve never been able to do in human form. When you bring up dealing with crazy women it reminds me of dealing with the emotional abuse of my sisters and mom while growing into puberty. Holy hell it’s just weird to think how helpful your distinction is an crazy because it’s true. Every so called girls women mother daughter wife ect… All have limits on social decency that only matter in the context of your mental point of origin. The burden of performance… Read more »

cervantesscthree
cervantesscthree
5 years ago

Both solipsism posts have been excellent, but after reading them, and the comments that follow, I’m starting to doubt that it’s possible to grasp just how how deep rooted this acceptance of the feminine imperative is in men and how entrenched this solipsistic extremism is in today’s women honestly: I’ve been game aware/red pill aware since I was 12, all of my brothers included and two friends outside my family, but still there are moments of blue pill programming that creeps its way out of all of us to this day. We have a saying now: “Living life without knowing… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

thanks SJF and Rugby.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@ cervantesscthree ” I can see why Rollo hasn’t, but will there ever be a post on men who have grown up being red pill aware (I know there aren’t many, if any), and how they’re responding to the feminine imperative and this solipsistic extremism? From the few people I’ve seen grow up whilst being game aware from their early teen onwards, me included, who are now in their early 20s, the response has either been an entire rejection of LTR in general – outside temporary fuck buddies, entering an LTR due to a girl forcing it upon them, or… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

@cervantesscthree Can you flesh out more what your personal concerns are regarding you? Are you worried you are going to be swimming in a sea of pussy men colleagues? Are you worried you won’t have reasonable prospects among women for a LTR and that has you worried? Societies change and you have to adapt to control your outcomes and your direction in life. It is certainly depressing the way things are going and you have to employ a degree of schadenfreude in dealing with the decline. I would think being red pill aware has lower downside and higher upside (Stoicism)… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

From Amused Mastery – “…Women don’t like overt dominance, just as they don’t like overt objectification or adoration. It’s when it’s covert that they respond most favorably – women love to be objectified, dominated and adored, but only by men who know better than to remind her of it. I’ve always advocated the positive effect of maintaining an ambient threat of competition anxiety with women, but this form of dominance cannot be an overt display. Dominance must be playing in the background, only occasionally being amplified as situations warrant. Women need to know it’s there, but her imaginations of that… Read more »

SJF
SJF
5 years ago

“I have a hard time explaining to guys about dominance. I usually muck up the explanation in some fashion.”

How bout some examples from your own married man covert dominance?

rugby11ljh
rugby11ljh
5 years ago
Reply to  SJF

@cervantesscthree “Plus, arguing against the feminine imperative, subliminally, in any instance where men and women are present, is akin to living life, socially, on the edge, and that’s if you present your criticisms with restraint.” The fact that you bring that up brings Some solace to me because that was the painful part in public. I would express what I saw and got humiliated and shamed and than banished. So I stopped attempting I journaled Nd left it at that. I never meant a human who was male in person who spoke to me about the visceral truths of the… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

I think women’s solipsism is much like that of young children. Think 4 year old. The world literally evolves around them because they do not know any better. They do not know or have the capability to understand that the world is bigger than them. They ARE their world. It comes naturally for a kid to be solipsistic, because they can be, and it’s in their best interest to do so. When a kid acts selfish in that way, they are not doing it to be malicious. They are doing it because it is their nature. Besides my wife, who… Read more »

CaveClown
CaveClown
5 years ago

Rollo you were saying about women and their solipsistic subroutine.

Normal 4 year old testing the world around them…versus… spoiled brat that has been, or feels they should have, everything given to them.

Or more simply, a naturally solipsistic woman versus a narcissistic bitch.

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

@SJF Hahahahaaa… I thought about it, but they come across strange on the page. Most of what I consider dominant in my relationship is not verbal because that’s what works best with wifey. Something as simple as standing over her ( I’m 6ft, she’s 5.5ft ) seems to get her in a more cooperative state. She anticipates that ” something’s about to happen, but often she doesn’t know what that ” something ” is. That is what works in HER particular case. She’s one of those people that’s very guarding of ” My personal space..”. I invade that space when… Read more »

Blaximus
Blaximus
5 years ago

…and she could blow it all up tomorrow. Maybe. Unlikely, but always possible.

kobayashii1681
5 years ago

Solipsism II…Fucking Gold! “I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.” I just went through this shit yesterday: Went to see this chic I was banging but now want to next. So, I tell about this Newsweek article that basically supports fat/obese acceptance (See here: http://www.newsweek.com/full-beauty-photo-project-big-women-bare-all-636) – and went on to tell her… Read more »

Forge the Sky
Forge the Sky
5 years ago

“Seraph, Cave Clown “….thirst is something really impeding me.” And women can sense just the barest hint immediately. It’s my biggest obstacle to learning enough game to spin plates (besides my age ha). I’m reminded of the blind woman in Red Dragon who describes a male co-worker as a walking hard-on….” Lol yeah, it’s crazy the radar they have. Like a lot of things, it’s alpha filtering. Also some reverse psychology. Men have relentless sex drives; if that sex drive is going at all unfulfilled, you must not be the alpha. It’s a tricky thing to break out of. Discipline… Read more »

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