Solipsism II

solipsism_II

A comment from Truman gets us started today:

Rollo, it would be great if you could provide some evidence for female solipsism beyond a few examples. From my own experience I could name a few solipsistic women, but I could do the same for men as well, and I’m far from convinced that the trait is universal in women, or even that it’s more prevalent in women than in men.

I will admit that the main reason I split this post into two was because I anticipated this example-seeking. And to their credit my more vocal female commenters didn’t disappoint me with (sometimes over the top) illustrations. If you haven’t had enough of the hamster spinning goodness yet feel free to sift through the comment thread from part one.

However, to begin to work out Truman’s request Voverk from the TRP forum had this example:

One of the most eye opening of the solipsistic world of females was when a plate of mine was giving me directions on where to pick her up. It went something like this:

Her: “When you come to that traffic light, turn over to me.”

Me: “What do you mean?”

Her: “Just turn here towards me.”

Me: “How the hell am I supposed to know which way is that? Left or right?”

Her: “I don’t know. Just turn my way”

She eventually gave directions, but it amazed me how hard it is for a woman to put herself in someone else’s shoes, even if she wants to.

Women’s mental point of origin (solipsism) presumes the entire world outside of her agrees with her imperative and mutually shares the importance and priorities of it.

Just like The Red Pill Lens, it takes a sensitivity to it, but you will begin to notice instances of that solipsism all around you if you pay attention. An equalists, feminine-primary upbringing and acculturation predisposes men to accept the manifestations of this solipsism as ‘normal’, so we blow it off or nod in agreement without really considering it. Most plugged-in Blue Pill men simply view this as a standard operating condition for women to such a degree that this solipsistic nature is pushed to the peripheries of their awareness.

It’s just how women are and women are more than happy to have men accept their solipsism as intrinsic to their nature. It’s excusable in the same sense that women hold a “woman’s prerogative” – she always reserves the right to change her mind. When your default is to accept this social imperative any greater inconsistencies fall into line behind it.

We are conditioned to accept that what best benefits women’s sexual strategy is necessarily what benefits men. On both a social and personal level women’s solipsistic importance presumes, by default, that what best serves themselves automatically best serves men – even when they refuse to acknowledge it. Remember, nothing outside the female existential imperative has any more significance than an individual women will allow it. So, perceptually to women, if a man suits a purpose in her self-primary requirements he must also mutually share in that awareness of his purpose. Thus, she maintains that his imperatives are the same as her own.

Societal Reinforcement

Social reinforcement of women’s solipsistic nature is a self-perpetuating cycle. A feminine-primary social order reflects in itself, and then sustains, female solipsism. For most Red Pill aware men this cycle is apparent in women’s overblown self-entitlements, but there’s far more to it than this.

When men accept and reinforce this socially, we feed and confirm women’s solipsistic natures. When men are steeped in a Blue Pill acceptance of what they believe should be men’s condition, and defend (or ’empower’) women’s solipsistic behaviors or manifestations of it, thats when the cycle of affirmation of this solipsism comes full circle.

Recently I called commenter InsanityBytes to the carpet about her first priority being to defend the Sisterhood when Dalrock published a post critical of a woman’s abortions and another who’d joined Ashley Madison then rationalized it away because she was in a loveless marriage with a man who was in his last days.

This is another instance of solipsism; that a woman’s first directive is to defend her sex’s imperatives even above considerations of religious conviction, marriage vows or espoused personal ideology. That’s the depth and breadth of feminine solipsism, and again, this reinforces a cycle of affirming it in women.

Communication

One of the easiest ways to identify women’s solipsistic nature is manifested in their communication style, and as fate would have it I received a fresh comment from a new female commenter on my interview with Niko Choski. I wont bore you with the histrionics of most of it, but her ending comments serve a purpose here:

I’m not lonely, I enjoy solitude…
I am a whole person who needs no other for my own completion.No man, no woman. The qualities identified by different cultures as male and female…are all mine.
Your obsession with division….iis absurd.

I’ve dug into women’s communication styles on more occasions than I can account on this blog, and with regard to how women defer to their solipsistic nature there is no better way to identify it than in the priorities they give to communicating with men and other women.

From Duplicity:

It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. It’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their personal anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves a universal opposite. By order of degrees, women have a natural tendency for solipsism – any dynamic is interpreted in terms of how it applies to themselves first, and then the greater whole of humanity.

Men tend to draw upon the larger, rational, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel. If it’s true for her, it’s true for everyone, and experience and data that contradict her self-estimations? Those have no bearing because ‘she’s’ not like that.

This personalization is the first order of any argument proffered by women just coming into an awareness of long standing conversations and discussion in the manosphere. It is so predictable it’s now cliché, and each woman’s first retort invariably responds with personalized anecdotes they think trumps any objective, observable evidence to the contrary.

It might be entertaining for Red Pill men to count the instances of personalization in a woman’s rebuttal comment, but it’s not about how many “I”s or “me”s a woman brings to any counterargument – it’s that her first inclination for a counterargument is to use her personal experience and expect it to be accepted as a valid, universal truth by whomever she is presenting it to.

I’s, Me’s and Myself’s are simply the vehicle and manifestation of women’s first directive – a solipsistic mental point of origin; any challenge to that self-importance is invalidated by her personal self-primacy. This mental origin is so automatic and ingrained to such a limbic degree that consideration of it is never an afterthought for her.

This is common to feminine communication preferences (and men who’ve been conditioned to opt into a feminine-primary communication mode). Women focus primarily on the context of the communication (how it makes them feel while communicating), while men focus primarily on the content (the importance of the information being communicated). This isn’t to exclude men from using personal experiences to help illustrate a point, but the intent comes from a different motive. That motive is an attempt to better understand the content and information of that issue, not an exercise in self-affirmation that feminine solipsism requires to preserve a woman’s ego-investments (usually her solipsistic mental point of origin).

The most visible manifestation of women’s rudimentary solipsism is the priority with which they expect their personal, existential, experience to be considered the most valid, legitimate and universal truth apparent in any debate.

Middle of the Story Syndrome

One thing I’ve been frustrated with by virtually every woman I’ve ever known in my life is their tendency to begin a conversation in the middle of a story; all the while expecting men to understand every nuance and be familiar with minute ‘feely’ detail that made up the backstory that’s never forthcoming.

I swear, every woman I’ve known has done this with me at some time. The presumption is that their story is of such importance that bothering with any pretext, or outlining and describing the events and information that led up to that mid-way vitally important element that made them feel a certain way is all that  should matter to a listener.

Women have an uncanny way of accepting this when they relate stories among themselves; gleaning incidental details of the backstory as the teller goes on.

There’s an ironic feminine-operative social convention that complains that “men aren’t good listeners” or “men don’t listen” to what women are telling them. This convention is really another manifestation of a solipsistic mindset with regard to communication.

It isn’t that men don’t listen, it’s that our communication styles focus on content information, not the contextual ‘feel’ of what’s being communicated by women. Women, above all else, hate to repeat themselves. Not because of the inconvenience, but because men ‘not listening’ and requiring a repetition of that information conflicts with her own self-primary solipsism.

The want for a ‘good listener’ is really the want for a man who affirms her self-priority by not needing to be told something that confirms that priority more than once. And this confirmation should never require explanation or and understanding of the backstory of events that made it feel important to her.

Women have an inherent pretext in communication that always begins with themselves. In fact, most are so sure of their solipsistic, personal truth that glaring objectivity never enters their minds; at least not initially. As I mentioned in the first installment, women are entirely capable of applying reason, rationality and pragmatism as well as men, it’s just that this isn’t their first mental order when confronted with a need for it. Just as a girl can be taught to throw an object as well as it comes naturally to a boy, a reasoned transcendence above her solipsism, one that considers the individuated existences of others’ experiences takes a learned effort.

Ladies First

Luxocrat had a great illustration as well:

I asked my ex that last month, if her kids came first or if I did. She paused and said “I really don’t know. That’s a hard one.” I replied “Then it’s your kids.” I recall my ex-wife reading one of those save your marriage books right after I made it clear I was leaving. She read me a line in it and said she sees how she was wrong. The line went something like this: “If you want to have a strong marriage, you need to understand your husband comes first, even before your children. They must be taught by you, their mother, that he is head of the household and respect must be given. The only way they’ll see that is by your demostrating by your actions that this is so.”

I still left though.

The irony in this instance is that for all of the humble deference this seemingly good advice promotes, it still presumes a woman is already the primary source of authority who ‘allows’ her husband to be “the man”. I’ve heard similar advice espoused by evangelical pastors making Pollyanna attempts at ‘granting headship’ to husbands and fathers from their reluctant wives. The inherent flaw is that these men already begin from a perspective that women are in a position of unquestioned primacy and require their permission to be ‘men’.

In a way they are unwittingly acknowledging women’s solipsism (and perpetuating the cycle) as a default source of authority. That a woman would need to be taught to defer authority to her husband belies two things; first, her solipsistic mental point of origin and second, that her man isn’t a man who inspires that deference.

It’s easy to see how a Beta man wouldn’t be someone that would naturally prompt a woman to go against her natural solipsism, but in Luxocrats position (I presume Alpha since he walked) there is a conflict women have to confront in themselves.

In a social order that reinforces the entitlements presumed by women’s solipsism there develops an internal conflict between the need for an optimized Hypergamy and the ego-investments a woman’s solipsism demands to preserve it. As a woman progresses towards the Wall and a lessened capacity to optimize both sides (AF/BB) of Hypergamy this conflict comes to a head. The necessities of long term provisioning war with the self-importance of solipsism at the risk of her losing out on preserving both (and having a guy like Luxocrat simply walk away from her).

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

766 comments on “Solipsism II

  1. “If you reduce the decision to a hypothetical discussion, no one has any problem with the choice to save the greater number of people. That’s how I say the decision itself is a simple one for anyone to make.”

    Not so fast. A few years ago the German constitutional court nullified a law allowing the government to shoot down a plane captured by terrorists and on use to hit more people because it explicitly stated your reasoning would violate “human dignity” which is the highest constitutional right in Germany. The reasoning goes as follows: respecting Human Dignity means treating humans as subjects experiencing life and not as objects of some calculation. We cannot say if those 6 are worth more than the 1, what is the value of some human and how do you want to measure it? If fate chose the 6 to die, who are we to sacrifice someone to prevent it?

  2. @lh

    Not so fast. A few years ago the German constitutional court nullified a law allowing the government to shoot down a plane captured by terrorists and on use to hit more people because it explicitly stated your reasoning would violate “human dignity” which is the highest constitutional right in Germany.

    How does this invalidate my argument? The German political process, a country that is deeply embarrassed by their past human rights transgressions, made a decision in full public view possibly for pure political points… Again, the social judgement is in full-gear here, people are making that decision because they want to be, as Obama might say, “on the right side of history.”

  3. It goes deeper than that. These constitutional rights have a very high level ethic-intellectual tradition attached to it. Just taking 6>1 like it where fruits doesn’t fit the complexity of the issue.
    Those 6 did bring them in this situation all by themselves, knowing or not. It was in their power and judgment. The 1 though didn’t do anything to bring those in danger. And he shall be taken all his powers over his own life up to total sacrifice because you want to save they others? That isn’t just and fair.

  4. I read both of the host’s post on our solipsism and I’m left saying, “So what?” I can vouch for the idea that my experience counts but then again, aren’t we (women) programmed that way? What doesn’t make sense about this place is that while it brings certain aspects about us into light, it still has a way of vilifying us for it. Not necessarily the host himself, but the commentators here. Also, I already know someone is going to say, “Haha, see guys! Mandy just proves what Rollo wrote. It’s true!!”

    Again, I ask, “so what?”

    I think the majority of women know, to a certain extent, that most men cannot handle the truth. Even if we were up front and honest about what we like or how we truly are, we would either get punished for it or called liars who “don’t know what they want”. This is what is perplexing to women at times, I will admit. Sometimes, we will let out a truth only to get it blown back up in our faces. When it isn’t received well, we then make a mental note to never mention it and just feign sincerity so that the man then feels good about himself but he really doesn’t see it all for what it is. Women are often thought of as ditzy, little human beings but most of us know the score and we adjust accordingly, like any pragmatic person would.

    P.S. I did notice all of my “I”s. 🙂

  5. Solipsism is the reason why previous generations of men took voting and private property rights from women. Look at how they vote! They are like Mr. Smith in the Matrix saying,”Me, me, me!”
    Men were linked in a warrior/provisional way. Women couldn’t have anything unless they invested in us with respect.
    Hypergamy is the reason you see tribal groups that won’t accept you unless your mother was part of the tribe. There was no guarantee the child was yours but at least your child was part of the tribe. If you wanted anything handed down, you had to have a man gain tribal status and resources.
    It’s interesting to see how other previous cultures adapted to a woman’s hypergamous state. When you look back at history and see the adaptations that Alpha Male ruled societies “handled” things it all makes sense.

  6. @Rollo: After being accused of a female perspective I tried to get an empathic idea how it could work in detail. How it would feel.

  7. @Jeremy:

    Let’s change that case somewhat to find something out: Imagine we don’t need a fat man, some loser, useless omega and there isn’t one present anyway. Only person to use (which would also work) is a nicely smiling HB9. Wanna tell me your case?

    It’s nothing personal, just an interesting thought experiment. No one has to answer. But please think about if that detail would change something and what that means.

  8. @Mandy

    What doesn’t make sense about this place is that while it brings certain aspects about us into light, it still has a way of vilifying us for it.

    Women are often thought of as ditzy, little human beings but most of us know the score and we adjust accordingly, like any pragmatic person would.

    I’m really trying to reconcile why someone who “knows the score” would ever give a shit about men “villifying” you. Those two statements are entirely incompatible. Perhaps you’re not as confident as your openly-hypergamous comment would have us believe.

  9. @lh

    That’s an excellent change to the scenario, and it does reveal a lot. I’d wager women would change their opinion much less than a man would. It still doesn’t alter my point though. Sociopaths are not much different than all the rest of us, they simply don’t care what society thinks of their actions.

  10. A thought occurred to me today concerning female solipsism as defined by the red pill lens and discussed on TRM. This thought came to mind as I was eating lunch with a female client and we were discussing politics and social issues. Her perspective and arguments are exactly what you would expect as described and discussed here. There is no need to disclose the details of our discourse, they were what you already know and have most likely experienced yourselves.

    The thought: Is female solipsism a result of inability or unwillingness to reason logically?

    Respecting logic and its reasonable conclusions would of course require them to abandon their most preferred strategies. However, I suspect they may be incapable of respecting logic simply because they cannot really comprehend it. Comprehension of logic requires the ability to mentally step outside oneself and consider realities from an objective perspective.

    Man has participated in logical pursuits far more than woman throughout recorded history. Please take notice I used the word “participated” and NOT the word “dominated”. This is important because the context of “participated” is more logically realistic in that it infers no oppression of woman by man in this consideration. No one is being accused of mitigating the other. I am simply describing reality without implying anything. This is why I avoid “dominate”, because it implies contest and submission. I do not think woman submits to man in this context. I think she is ultimately forced to submit to reality.

    The fact is men have participated in logical reasoning far more than women throughout history. The disparity is extreme. This fact is manifested by an extremely overwhelmingly obvious tangible manifestation of evidence including but not limited to millions of inventions, philosophy, scientific theories, development of law, mathematics, money, discoveries, and the scientific method itself; all created, developed and expanded by almost exclusively men.

    Are we to believe that man has spent his entire existence thus far preventing woman from achieving the same? Are we to assume that woman innately has the same abilities as man but has not been able to express them because man has selfishly prevented her from doing so for the past ten thousand years? If we believe and assume these claims, then we must also believe that man has been able to exercise almost universal control of woman and dominate her thus preventing her from expressing herself in this way (all because he may be embarrassed if she is allowed?) So therefore, man must have some other superior power over woman because we are all provided with the same brains and same resources; same earth, water, air, natural resources, etc.?

    Some will argue man’s intellectual “dominance” is established by and evolves from his physical superiority. I disagree because women are not so much physically weaker than men that they would be so helpless and universally subject to mans presumed “dominance”. Top female athletes perform at only about 10 percent less than the top males in the same fields on average. If woman was so much weaker than man that man has been able to maintain intellectual “dominance” based upon physical prowess alone, then she would have to be much weaker and the human race would not have survived because she would not be able to defend herself and her children when he wasn’t immediately beside her to protect her. Furthermore there are and have always been a considerable number of men who are naturally smaller and weaker than a number of women.

    What do you think?

  11. “Insanitybytes, Your say?”

    Regarding Tomassi’s BIL? Very sad. I’m so sorry. Where I live we have had multiple young guys commit suicide, it’s part of the reason I went looking for answers within the ‘sphere.

    I could not save a couple of men and I darn near killed myself trying. There is nothing I wouldn’t have done and nothing I didn’t try. A few years back one hung himself 100 feet up in a tree near my house and another blew his brains out.

    Long ago there was another man, and he dumped me for this girl that was going to be his excuse. I knew it and everyone around him knew it. He was writing a script in his own head without even being aware of it. She was far above his pay grade, using him, and I knew the moment she left he would kill himself. I totally laid down in the railroad tracks for him, tried to seduce him away from her, completely humiliated myself in every way possible, but it didn’t matter. I couldn’t save him.

    So while Tomassi’s experience with the women at his work may be true, that is not a truth that defines all women or even most of us.

  12. Sjf @9:36 am

    Brilliant. Just found RM, and I find I have to pace myself on it. I have been living that post. Married-still- close to 30 years. Once my kids went off to college I got an ATV, it is my artwork. 15, 000 miles of ass kicking fun. I have never felt like more of a man….canamrider07 on youtube. It is my Red Pill…and now that I have found this site and shown it to my wife,,,,, things are changing, it is never too late…life enhancers you guys are…thank you

  13. Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention. Kinda lost in a video.
    Did somebody say “but I’m not like that”?

  14. @insanitybytes22

    So while Tomassi’s experience with the women at his work may be true, that is not a truth that defines all women or even most of us.

    Right right, other women, even apparently some Christian ones, just murder any men with self-respect and dump them in attics to rot.

  15. “Where I live we have had multiple young guys commit suicide, it’s part of the reason I went looking for answers within the ‘sphere.”

    I would be interested in what answers you have found within the ‘sphere’ for young guys committing suicide. As opposed to old guys.

  16. “I would be interested in what answers you have found within the ‘sphere’ for young guys committing suicide. As opposed to old guys.”

    Older guys are far more likely to kill themselves, perhaps because the world has changed so much and they are from a generation where men do not seek help from anyone, they just bottle it all up until they can’t take it anymore. They tend to feel as if someone has changed all the rules and the world just doesn’t make sense anymore.

    The younger guys are less likely to kill themselves (on purpose,) although they are big risk takers and do seriously injure themselves with drugs, alcohol, and car wrecks. Meth and heroin use is through the roof where I live and brings a whole other kind of death and destruction.

    Most of the younger guys come from feminist homes, single parent homes, with absent fathers, lots of chaos and confusion, no mentors or role models. Many of them are amazing anyway, they’re raising children alone after being abandoned, they overcome drug problems, they fight to find jobs and work. Some of them game the system like single moms do.

  17. Fantastic IB, you clearly are in touch with the men of the world. Jesus Christ, somehow I think it might have been more efficient for Rollo to just troll out IB to putting fingers to keys in a comment section than spend all that time writing and editing a post about solipsism.

  18. @Rollo-

    “It isn’t that men don’t listen, it’s that our communication styles focus on content information, not the contextual ‘feel’ of what’s being communicated by women.”

    In other words women are innately formed to literally perceive everything in terms of…..

    “If don’t feel what I feel then you are not living life within me as I am and therefore you are not valid because my experience is the only valid experience.”

    Women have no ability to objectively comprehend Relativity, the Doppler Effect or anything other than how they perceive their narrow experience affects them, aware of nothing outside themselves other than in terms of how they perceive things in relation to how they are affected. They are literally incapable of intellectually separating themselves from what they observe. Therefore it is impossible for them to be truly objective. This is likely the effect of the fact they typically possess approximately 400,000,000 fewer brain cells than men.

  19. So those are the answers you found?????

    Wait. What was your question? Where can I go to observe more men committing suicide? I would have figured you’d asked yourself how you can prevent more men from committing suicide.

  20. “So while Tomassi’s experience with the women at his work may be true, that is not a truth that defines all women or even most of us.”

    Yet Tomassi’s experience is the same as mine, the same as my brothers, the same as my neighbors, the same as my fathers, the same as my uncles, the same as by friends, the same as my father in laws, the same as my brother in laws, the same as men all over the world on this blog……and……most importantly……..

    ………the same as our experience with you IB right here right now and as you have always provided here.

  21. “…the same as our experience with you IB right here right now and as you have always provided here.”

    It’s called cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You will only see what you wish to see because it validates your own worldview. That is also why I cannot reach the suicidal men and why my words and actions so often just fall on deaf ears.

    1. @IB, I have an inbox with roughly 60 men who’ve thanked me for saving their lives by way of my books or some post on TRM.

      I’m not too humble to say that the Red Pill has a better track record than your ‘efforts’

      1. “I’m not too humble to say that the Red Pill has a better track record than your ‘efforts’”

        I know you’re not humble, Tomassi. I know you’re just an asshole like so many other people, a boring and common asshole taking the easy way out. Enjoy your life hardening the hearts of broken men and relentlessly blaming women.

        At least I now know why I could never save them.

  22. Has anyone else taken note of the pattern IB is experiencing. She reads comments on this blog and some of Rollo’s posts then reacts with emotional distress and anger. She does this over and over and over, This is a pattern of behavior and experience she repeats infinitum. Yet nothing changes for her. For IB this blog is like a mirror into which she repeatedly looks to test her view of herself. It is obvious she is very disturbed by what she sees.

  23. “Has anyone else taken note of the pattern IB is experiencing. She reads comments on this blog and some of Rollo’s posts then reacts with emotional distress and anger. She does this over and over and over, This is a pattern of behavior and experience she repeats infinitum. Yet nothing changes for her.”

    Yes, I noticed her state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change. And her tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions, leading to statistical errors. Otherwise know as cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. She’s just projecting. (Psychological projection–also known as blame shifting–is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude.)

  24. insanitybytes22 said on: September 9th, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    It’s called cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias. You will only see what you wish to see because it validates your own worldview. That is also why I cannot reach the suicidal men and why my words and actions so often just fall on deaf ears.

    …wait for it….

    From above:

    From Duplicity:

    It’s endlessly entertaining (and predictable) to see how often women’s (and feminized men’s) default response to anything they disagree with in regards to gender dynamics is met with a personalization to the contrary. It’s always the “not-in-my-case” story about how their personal anecdotal, exceptional experience categorically proves a universal opposite. By order of degrees, women have a natural tendency for solipsism – any dynamic is interpreted in terms of how it applies to themselves first, and then the greater whole of humanity.

    Men tend to draw upon the larger, rational, more empirical meta-observations whether they agree or not, but a woman will almost universally rely upon her isolated personal experience and cling to it as gospel. If it’s true for her, it’s true for everyone, and experience and data that contradict her self-estimations? Those have no bearing because ‘she’s’ not like that.

    This personalization is the first order of any argument proffered by women just coming into an awareness of long standing conversations and discussion in the manosphere. It is so predictable it’s now cliché, and each woman’s first retort invariably responds with personalized anecdotes they think trumps any objective, observable evidence to the contrary.

    … wait for it…

    But insanitybytes22 also said on: September 9th, 2015 at 8:03 pm

    So while Tomassi’s experience with the women at his work may be true, that is not a truth that defines all women or even most of us.

    I swear to god, at some point I’m going to start assuming that Rollo hired someone to act like the very thing he writes about. It’s just too f-ing perfect.

  25. ” Older guys are far more likely to kill themselves, perhaps because the world has changed so much and they are from a generation where men do not seek help from anyone, they just bottle it all up until they can’t take it anymore. They tend to feel as if someone has changed all the rules and the world just doesn’t make sense anymore.”

    Tend to feel as if someone has changed the rules??? ” As if “???

    The rules have changed and degraded to the point that western civilization is probably on it’s last legs.

    …but that’s a different discussion.

    To most aware men, we are making sense of a world that doesn’t truly make any sense anymore. Older men ARE from a generation that never needed to seek ” help “…whatever ” help ” is.

    In a lot of ways I’m glad to be getting old(er). I don’t think being a young man today is very much fun. It doesn’t seem to hold any rewards for work, honesty, Strength, truthfulness… nada. Just a giant ball of confusion.

    Gee, I wonder wtf happened?? Does anyone have a clue?? Maybe there is an answer or ” answers “. If only there was a way to HELP men figure out what happened and why life is so fucked up and confusing some times.

    I wish someone would provide some guidance to men.

  26. “Most of the younger guys come from feminist homes, single parent homes, with absent fathers, lots of chaos and confusion, no mentors or role models. Many of them are amazing anyway, they’re raising children alone after being abandoned, they overcome drug problems, they fight to find jobs and work. Some of them game the system like single moms do.”

    Oh they are so special “amazing anyway”. so special just like single moms. As if they are by virtue of their birth into single mother homes they are superior and owed higher respect than others who are not born to single moms.

  27. IB –

    Sorry but you cannot break the mirror. It is unbreakable and will always reflect the truth.

    Go hide.

  28. “Okay, I’ve had enough of your relentless abuse unwillingness to submit and unwillingness to communicate have have me talk at you.”

    Fixed it for you.

  29. “There are men behind this mirror….and they see you.”

    No. You are not real men and you do not see me. You are all too wounded and broken to see me. You can not even see your own selves.

    I am most blessed however, my life is full of men who really do see me! God is good, indeed. I so hope you all find what you are looking for.

  30. aahhh..

    We are at the middle of the story. The juiciest part. The part with the most indignation. That compulsively indulged part. That most important part of the most intense emotional masturbation. Let’s keep her going all night. This is fun. Masturbate that little hamster!

  31. “It seems that solipsism is not just “me” as opposed “us”. But also “now” as opposed to “future.””

    I believe you will find that if you set about to make your own reality, and that reality is not founded upon a theory of algebra, it will be necessary to recreate that reality from moment to moment.

    It can only be left alone to run itself for time if there is a rule set for it to follow.

  32. ” I think now you have your answer about women and truth.”

    No Tomassi, you flat out played me in order to confirm your own biases.

    It wasn’t very kind of you to sneer and put my “efforts” in quotations. That’s not solipsism speaking but an awareness of basic human decency.

  33. “you flat out played me”

    which means

    “So are women really bad at reasoning? No, actually they’re great at it.”

    I love these examples

  34. BabyKillerAdvocate – “No. You are not real men and you do not see me. You are all too wounded and broken to see me. You can not even see your own selves.”

    Anybody else curious how she goes about trying to talk a man off the ledge?

    I wonder if she’s not trying to talk men into jumping as sort a Munchausen by Proxy pathology. It would explain the need to continue to provoke “wounded and broken” men without ever attempting to offer even bad advice. Nothing she posts here indicates the least bit of concern for the fates of “wounded and broken” men. More it seems revenge against all men because some guy in her past resisted her best seduction attempts.

  35. Insanity
    “At least I now know why I could never save them.”

    Forget about saving broken men , the best thing you can do is , save Mr. Bytes
    And give him a good BJ .
    Stop focusing on other men, Mr. Bytes’s (sexual) needs comes first.

  36. @insanitybytes22

    I am most blessed however, my life is full of men who really do see me!

    Based on your insinuation of murder of any man who is into himself, do they really have any choice?

  37. Capper – “Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it.”

    Seriously? Get the fuck out! Did it ever occur to you the parents making each other the highest priority is the best situation for the kids? By doing so the parents demonstrate a proper, healthy, relationship. As well, this helps ensure the parents will remain together after the kids have left the house. Parents are useful into adulthood, it’s best if they get along well and can offer joint assistance.

    Let me ask you one thing. If the father is neglected by the wife in favor of the children for 18+ years what is his motivation to stay with her after the children leave home?

  38. No shit about starting a story in the middle. My ex would often start with something like “She’s going to be fired . . ” Stories with strings of pronouns and no names or nouns.

    I’d laugh and shake my head “Who, what, where?” It’s like her thoughts are supposed to be universally absorbed.

  39. @Jeremy good points, I’ll try to respond in more detail if I get time in the next few days. You’re right in the convo with @Andy that I was mainly citing the sister as non-solipsistic, although also secondarily the friends.

    Just a quick question for @Rollo. You said

    Feminine solipsism is about a woman’s mental point of origin (herself and by extension womankind), not necessarily the specifics of how she applies it.

    You have said in the past that “Alpha” means a mindset that puts oneself as one’s “mental point of origin”. You say that this is also what feminine solipsism is. Does this mean that solipsism and being alpha are roughly the same? Are there differences?

  40. Yeah so I think I’m getting the hang of this ..
    “Okay, I’ve had enough of your relentless abuse and unwillingness to communicate. As usual, continue your circle jerk without me.” = “OMG guys, I’m so excited I have to go peepee, back in five, don’t go away!”

    1. @SJF
      “#07 – If anything goes wrong
      it’s always your fault (because she’s a reflection of you.)”

      Damn true.

      Women are the compliments of your thoughts an actions. In a sexual sense you can see that as well with healthy mutual relationships.

      @SD
      “No matter what letter of the Greek alphabet a man attaches to himself, he shares the same rank among all women-an appliance.
      Whether he’s considered an exciting or boring one is up to him.”

      Nice outlook even in the deepest parts of my blue pill days I knew about this by viewing my neighbors parents getting divorced. I saw then almost all of them bring it up or go through the process. But I think men are inherently responsible for the burden of performance which coincides with her actions with him and for him.

      @Guy
      “It may be difficult to live for yourself at first, but when you start to feel guilty about it, remind yourself of everything you’ve done for the people who demand your sacrifice, and think about if they’ve reciprocated your good will.”

      It’s a humble way to approach people who
      Aren’t able to help but though they could.

      “If I had to go through my journey all over again, my main focus would be on overcoming my insecurities and learning to respect myself.”

      Me to brother me to. I would also point out that for some of us who have gone through some deep seeding trauma. We got to look back an why we weren’t able to respect ourselves and what was the root cause of are insecurities. Mine was being abused physically by women than being told in a religious environment that being a male was the cause of the worlds troubles and that brought the reinforcement of shame self rejection and anxiety.

      I learn by my wrongs. A buddy of mine pointed out to me just now that back in tribal times if you didn’t change your behavior you could be ether killed or banished. That made me think about how my first tribe my family banished me emotionally than pretended as if they weren’t emotionally killing me. I don’t hold them responsible for anything. I am responsible for myself and my own actions. But I know myself more and love myself with respect and dignity than ever before. Because the red pill doesn’t excuse self neglect. It enhances personal responsibility to what is manageable for the time being.

      @Jeremy
      “If I’m grounded in reality I am engaging in the world according to my own senses. That’s about all anyone can ask for. Solipsism actually rejects input from the senses, and outright refuses to use imagination to interpret the world through other peoples eyes, preferring instead to rely on a chosen and rather personal interpretation of the world.”

      Your comment brings up a real issue I’ve had a hard time as an adult dealing with. It’s choosing to attempt to change the world to your perception ether male or female for the sake of ego investment. That’s the worst part of being blue pill especially for a male. Because you rob your self of the beauty of those harsh truths.

      @Rollo
      “Ego-investment dictates that an attack on an invested belief is equitable with an attack on the person, no matter how incontrovertible the evidence that challenges that belief. So the logical recourse for women is to poison the well and question the motives of the man putting forth that evidence.

      Ergo, the challenge is disqualified because, ‘Mansplaining’.”

      Ran into this exact thing with a dance instructor from Chicago. It got me into trouble with my local dance community and also encouraged me to stay off facebook.

      “Women only care for and acknowledge the men who make themselves vital to women’s experiences.”

      I think the care part also con incise with the burden of performance. If you perform and make her experience exciting than she’s more likely to help you.

      “ostensibly make them more socially pliable (selfless Betas).”

      Those times gave me nigth terrors.

      “This is a primary reason men need to unlearn their own MPO (as I outline in that post) and why teaching women prosocial ways of controlling solipsism is offensive to women on the surface.”

      I think in parts it’s why bringing this up in public brings shame and banishment and guilt on a social level.

      @Blaximus
      “To most aware men, we are making sense of a world that doesn’t truly make any sense anymore. Older men ARE from a generation that never needed to seek ” help “…whatever ” help ” is.”

      I miss my grandfather for that very reason. He would always smile about how or him getting laid was meeting my grandma across nazi occupied France for a date and food in the outdoors. He traveled to see her and make love in dangerous times. I kinda wish that would happen in the U S of A to take of way the massive sense of entitlement.

      @Truman
      “You have said in the past that “Alpha” means a mindset that puts oneself as one’s “mental point of origin”. You say that this is also what feminine solipsism is. Does this mean that solipsism and being alpha are roughly the same? Are there differences?”

      Good question yes to some extent yes. We must discuss this. That’s a thrilling thing to observe male vs female and the interactions of what comes from that question.

  41. I know you’re not humble, Tomassi. I know you’re just an asshole like so many other people, a boring and common asshole taking the easy way out. Enjoy your life hardening the hearts of broken men and relentlessly blaming women.

    Unfortunately hardening hearts is what needs to be done. Rollo’s story reminds me of this scene in Gone with the Wind. One of the most red pill movies ever. Which is why women love it of course.

    https://youtu.be/2zomyWfPgjE

    Same as it ever was.

  42. @Truman and @rugby,

    Alpha: Everyone’s interests are known to exist, but only mine are important.

    Solipsism: Only my interests are known to exist, and only mine are important.

  43. Pretty much what BB said ^^^.

    Feminized culture trains men to sublimate themselves in large part so that women can get what they want, so they can “have it all” without men in the way. Alpha is just recognizing that that is bullshit, and that your male self is at least as important as anyone around you.

    Solipsism refuses to even acknowledge the perspectives of other people.

  44. “Capper – “Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it.”
    Seriously? Get the fuck out! Did it ever occur to you the parents making each other the highest priority is the best situation for the kids? By doing so the parents demonstrate a proper, healthy, relationship. As well, this helps ensure the parents will remain together after the kids have left the house. Parents are useful into adulthood, it’s best if they get along well and can offer joint assistance.
    Let me ask you one thing. If the father is neglected by the wife in favor of the children for 18+ years what is his motivation to stay with her after the children leave home?”

    I agree with this so much. I come from a family where my Dad was quite the beta, but my mother still WORSHIPED him. He was first. Kids were second. She deferred to his judgment. She trusted his decisions. She followed his lead. He told her from the get go that sex was important and according to him they had sex 6-7 nights a week and twice on Sundays. They would sneak off after heavy flirting and us kids knew we better not EVER go near their bedroom. Interrupt Dad while he was talking? You were in for some serious shit…from MOM for disrespecting Dad.

    He was first. Ultimately he ran the family into the ground, but still, he was first.

    I on the other hand, married a girl that was real good at pretending I was first. Now with a red pill awareness, and giving my 100% to break beta habits and mindsets, I can see where I was never first to her.

    After we had kids she no longer even held up the act that I was first. The kids are first (actually, she’s BPD so kids are second to herself)

    Should she love the kids more? Probably. Love flows downhill I think. But respect, admiration, time, attention? Kids should be second. Kids are (at least should be) a byproduct of a healthy marriage/relationship.

    This kid-centric culture is a big part of our problems. Narcissism starts early, especially if mom worships the kids and not the father of her children.

  45. Insanitybyte’s constant shaming of the men here has got me thinking…

    As I have improved myself, ditched the beta mindset, and become better with women, the level of attempted shaming by women in my life has INCREASED like I can’t believe.

    I get some snarky “attempt at shaming” test, I suppose I “pass” that test by truly not giving a flying fuck what any woman thinks of me, and then all is well. In fact, said woman treats me better at that point.

    Means I’m on the right track, no?

    Attempts at shaming are trying to root out the beta, or am I giving beta tells at the start to get the shaming tests?

  46. SJF –

    “Even Chad Thunderdick can’t escape this- he’s simply a more fascinating and coveted brand of designer male appliance then the boring, store bought provider male. No matter what letter of the Greek alphabet a man attaches to himself, he shares the same rank among all women-an appliance.”

    I tend to disagree.

    Forge the Sky and Rollo said it better that I can here:

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/24/the-invisibles/

    My wife and her five cats view me as a human on occasion. When I make myself visible. Other times she stares at birds”

    My thoughts –

    Been there mentally, went back there mentally numerous times only to be disappointed over and over again. What you hope to find is not there. She is incapable of seeing you as you see yourself. Furthermore, (and this is the most crucial but hardest to accept) she is incapable of seeing herself as you see yourself and as you know other men see themselves.

    You reveal a subconscious (maybe subconscious, maybe conscious) awareness of this when you say “view me as a human on occasion”. “On occasion” exposes the truth that you know her view of you as a human is limited at best. It is not limited. It simply does not happen. You are an “appliance or a piece of furniture” at all times. This is all you or I will ever be to any woman. Any mans circumstances can change over night unexpected. The reason women are so quick to accuse men of objectifying them is simply because they objectify men and that is all they can relate to in this context. It is all they know.

  47. @CaveClown

    “Attempts at shaming are trying to root out the beta, or am I giving beta tells at the start to get the shaming tests?”

    Shaming is not normally a shit test. To use IB as an example, when she shames with “bitter broken men” there are no tingles, but when she calls Rollo an asshole that’s tingles.

  48. What most men do not know is that it is just as easy to be Chad Thunderdick as it is to be John Provider. The difference only originates from mental context.

    Also, those who are trapped in John Provider roles tend to think Chad Thunderdick is free and “living it up”. Because they have not experienced that side of the coin sufficiently, they do not realize it purchases its own set of hells.

  49. “Shaming is not normally a shit test. To use IB as an example, when she shames with “bitter broken men” there are no tingles, but when she calls Rollo an asshole that’s tingles.”

    Now that I think about it, the shaming only comes from women I have known for a long time. Mother, sisters, old girlfriends. Hmmm…

  50. Solipsism is present in women across cultures and time. When I was in elementary/middle school back in my home country in Europe, in my literature book we had to read a story from Japanese folk tale that talked about a Japanese Samurai who had a few days off from his military duty. He decided to spend his time off with his lover. When she asked him how many days he was going to stay with her, he said: as many days as there are petals on that rose by your window. So the lover, not wanting him to leave too early decided to cut the petals in two, so that he could stay longer with her. Not realizing what happened, the samurai spent more days off than he was allowed. When he got back to work, he was arrested and sentenced to death for desertion!

    1. @BB,Jeremy
      “Alpha: Everyone’s interests are known to exist, but only mine are important.”
      https://m.soundcloud.com/blazemantis/tool-parabol-hd
      I thank you for that. It bothered me ever since I’ve been de programming from a beta blue pill mindset.

      “Feminized culture trains men to sublimate themselves in large part so that women can get what they want, so they can “have it all” without men in the way. Alpha is just recognizing that that is bullshit, and that your male self is at least as important as anyone around you.”

      School should have taught me this in high school. Yet I was told to reinforce the opposite.

      @Caveclown
      “As I have improved myself, ditched the beta mindset, and become better with women, the level of attempted shaming by women in my life has INCREASED like I can’t believe.”

      Holy hell that’s been happening to me as well. It’s off yet somewhat influential.

      @Not born this morning
      “Also, those who are trapped in John Provider roles tend to think Chad Thunderdick is free and “living it up”. Because they have not experienced that side of the coin sufficiently, they do not realize it purchases its own set of hells.”

      From seeing both sides that’s fairly socially actuate especially with new chad thunderdicks

  51. “So the lover, not wanting him to leave too early decided to cut the petals in two, so that he could stay longer with her. Not realizing what happened, the samurai spent more days off than he was allowed. When he got back to work, he was arrested and sentenced to death for desertion!”

    He should not have put a woman in charge of the petals.

  52. @Capper

    The only thing I take issue with is the advice, from the book that his wife read, which told her to place her husband above her children. Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it

    What you’re repeating there is actually the first steps of a hostage crisis. That is first-wave-feminism boilerplate response. It is the first redirection in a misdirection perpetuated by women in order to sink any notion that men should have some authority on matters. It’s been repeated for so long, it’s a cliche…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLDzjSy5DxY

    It’s typical crab-basket behavior. Women seek power over their lives and somehow instinctively believe that the only way to achieve power is to take someone elses power away. So they attack male authority by placing children above the man. This then becomes a stick with which to beat male authority into submission, as the woman is allowed to speak for the needs of the children. This is literally textbook subversion, and plays out on so many levels of human culture it tends to make one consider how boring humanity must look to any alien life that happens to stumble across our unremarkable corner of the universe.

    When the children’s needs become the “throne” of the household, and the wife is allowed to speak for the children’s needs, then the authority of the household becomes a rather grotesque combination of immediate child needs and female manipulation. Worse still, the children are now effectively captives of the wife, because at any time she can accuse the husband of anything the law is forced to throw him in handcuffs for, and take away the kids.

    What you’re repeating is the first steps in that hostage situation. Equalists will try to convince you of the logic that children come first, that children are the future, that all of that which makes them better is more important than anything else. This is bullshit.

    Do you think cavemen sat around in caves all day playing and socially interacting with their babies? Do you think they had some kind of fresh-gazelle-delivery service that allowed him to interact with the children directly? Do you think the mothers were not under exactly the same survival condition, needing to forage for carrots, potatoes, berries, etc, while the men hunted and built structures? Do you think the “children” came first in any other era of humanity? If so, you are very sadly mistaken.

    Children are more than capable of getting everything they need to know about how to live simply by watching their parents live a happy life together. This is how humans did things for eons, changing that order and putting the “children first” is frankly perverse and the beginning of the destruction of the family. Children are more than information sponges, they are blank minds that want desperately to be adult. Children want to understand everything that everyone around them understands, which is why a parent telling a child that you’re “disappointed” in them is more effective than a paddling. If you focus on children, you are frankly just spoiling them with attention that they will never receive in the real world. If instead you focus on yourself and your spouse, you will raise children that see you putting yourself as the MPO (as Rollo calls it), and your marriage/partnership as an important part of what you do each day.

    Don’t put the children first. That’s essentially like negotiating with a terrorist, they’ll only make more demands on you until the cops storm the plane and lots of people get shot.

    Your MPO should never waver from yourself.

  53. To Quote IB –
    “I could not save a couple of men and I darn near killed myself trying. There is nothing I wouldn’t have done and nothing I didn’t try. A few years back one hung himself 100 feet up in a tree near my house and another blew his brains out.

    Long ago there was another man, and he dumped me for this girl that was going to be his excuse. I knew it and everyone around him knew it. He was writing a script in his own head without even being aware of it. She was far above his pay grade, using him, and I knew the moment she left he would kill himself. I totally laid down in the railroad tracks for him, tried to seduce him away from her, completely humiliated myself in every way possible, but it didn’t matter. I couldn’t save him.”

    Apparently 3 men died… now count the use of “I” in the above text.

    It’s like this old story –
    ———————————————————–
    Once upon a time there was a chicken, a cow and a pig. They were in the barnyard talking how great their life was and how much they loved Farmer Brown. The chicken perked up and said “Hey we should make breakfast for Farmer Brown!”. The cow chimed in, “Great Idea! I’ll bring the milk. Chicken you bring the eggs. and piggy what will you bring?”.

    To which the pig replied, “I do not like this idea.”
    Both the Chicken and the Cow asked, “why not?”

    The pig stated soberly, “because what for you is a minor inconvenience, for me is a TOTAL commitment.”

    remember boys women really do believe men are pigs.

  54. “Long ago there was another man, and he dumped me for this girl that was going to be his excuse. I knew it and everyone around him knew it. He was writing a script in his own head without even being aware of it. She was far above his pay grade, using him, and I knew the moment she left he would kill himself. I totally laid down in the railroad tracks for him, tried to seduce him away from her, completely humiliated myself in every way possible, but it didn’t matter. I couldn’t save him.”

    Does anyone else notice how she presumes total power, authority and complete control over the entire situation and specifically his death? In her mind his death is literally the result of him not acquiescing to her and conforming to her desires. She literally uses his death his suicide mind you to masturbate her ego as she pretends to herself that her actions should have “saved him” but they didn’t because he didn’t comply with her imperative. The really sick thing is that she wholeheartedly believes her own pathological shit.

  55. Children should work too. I don’t mean child slave labor, I mean if I am doing something around the house, they should be too.

    My kids help with carpentry, yard care, household chores, plumbing, car repairs, etc.

    My wife fights me like crazy on this, and thinks they should play more. She even tried to turn our family room into a kids play room. I don’t think so.

    If I stay with this woman, I will lose this battle. Which means the kids lose too.

    And you know what? The kids love to help. They get time with Dad, they learn things, they are active. We laugh and joke around while we do these things! Kids loved it when dad got sprayed with sewer water while repairing the toilet!

    But you know, let’s just coddle the kids and raise little narcissistic, entitled control freaks.

  56. “Does anyone else notice how she presumes total power, authority and complete control over the entire situation and specifically his death? In her mind his death is literally the result of him not acquiescing to her and conforming to her desires.”

    Even in his death he was too beta for her.

    1. Just a refresher on suicide:
      http://therationalmale.com/2012/10/22/casualties/

      The first guy I knew to commit suicide over a woman was my brother-in-law. I don’t like to go into too much detail about it as critics may think it’s my casus belli for getting involved in the manosphere, but suffice to say it was after a 20 year marriage and 2 children. My sister-in-law promptly married the millionaire she was seeing less than a year after he was in the ground. This is a real point of contention her family and I have with her, but it was his terminal beta-ness / ONEitis conditioning that greatly contributed to his hanging himself. The psychologist in me knows there are plenty of imbalances that dispose a person to suicide, but I also know there are plenty of external prompts that make taking action more probable.

      My brother-in-law hung himself as a response to having the unthinkable happen to him; his ONE, his soulmate, a woman he was very posessive of, was leaving him after 20 years of marriage (for a millionaire we discovered later). She was the ONLY woman he’d ever had sex with and had been (to the best of my knowledge) a faithful and dependable husband and father since they married at 18 and 19. He did the ‘right thing’ and married her when he’d gotten her pregnant at 17 and stuck by her, sacrificed any ambition he had and worked his ass off to send both his kids to college – an advantage he’d never achieve. He wasn’t a saint by any means, and I’m not going to argue my sister-in-law’s motivations, since those aren’t my point; my point is that he was an AFC who never came to terms with it and believed his life was only completed with his ONE. He literally couldn’t go on without her.

      He couldn’t kill the beta (if he was even aware of it), so he killed himself.

      He never displayed any sign of mental illness, he wasn’t an aspie-geek, never saw a therapist, never had issues with depression even up to the day of his suicide and generally had his shit together for the most part. We can call crazy “crazy”, but when I read reports of 16 y.o. boys gunning down the parents of their 14 y.o. girlfriends so they can “be together as they were meant to be” there’s more than just mental consideration to account for.

  57. I wouldnt say the red pill hardens the heart. It merely wisens it.

    Being my own mental point of origin and having better control of my emotions has allowed me to love deeper in a healthy sense (not an uncontrolled, off the rails, oneitis sense). It makes me love women for who they are, not who I want them to be. Being blue pill is what really hardens the heart over time…

  58. IB is quite the self proclaimed all knowing all powerful God.

    “he dumped me for this girl that was going to be his excuse” – She knew precisely what he was thinking.

    “I knew it and everyone around him knew it” – She knows precisely what everyone else thinks.

    “He was writing a script in his own head without even being aware of it” – She was precisely aware of exactly what he was thinking whether he knew what he was thinking or not. Only she has the right to know what he was thinking. He did not have a right to know what he thought.

    “I knew the moment she left he would kill himself” – She has the power to orchestrate future behavior.

    “I totally laid down in the railroad tracks for him, tried to seduce him away from her, completely humiliated myself in every way possible, but it didn’t matter. I couldn’t save him.” – She replaces Jesus with herself.

    IB – You don’t need God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit. You ARE God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit !

  59. @ Jeremy 9pm
    “I swear to god, at some point I’m going to start assuming that Rollo hired someone to act like the very thing he writes about. It’s just too f-ing perfect.”

    It is amazing… and what is truly awesome in it’s implication that IB’s relentless harping causes her to speak in syntax that proves exactly what we are talking about here.

    The fact that an IB comes to a men’s forum to say this stuff in such a blatant matter PROVES open hypergamy.

    The fact that she states these tropes with such emotional verve, blatantly proves that in other venues her over the top act WORKS.

    Frankly I think it’s a testament to how solid this community is. Many forums would have a few white knights falling out of their armor right now defending her and saying us men are too mean.

  60. The way IB talks reminds me of my wife…seriously. Although in a battle of manipulation, I think my wife would win.

    Not all women are that narcissistic…are they?

    (I’ve got a few notches under my belt (13), most from pure chance before I was married. But this marriage was my first LTR.)

  61. “The only thing I take issue with is the advice, from the book that his wife read, which told her to place her husband above her children. Children come first for a mother, and they should for the father too. I’m not advocating to neglect her husband, but he needs to accept some biological facts and not be hurt because of it”

    Children should be used as hostages ?

  62. “Even in his death he was too beta for her.”

    I’d guess his death made him beta or worse. Dumping her is a huge DHV as we know, but killing yourself because of some women may be the biggest DLV ever.

  63. Women can be trained to not be as solipsistic as their natural wiring so that they would make better judgments for the tribe. This used to be done under Patriarchy. It is no longer done very much. Hence, InsanityBite’s argument that NAWALT is irrelevant under the current Matriarchy.

    IB wants fried ice. She doesn’t want Patriarchy, but she wants to believe the fantasy that women make judgments like they would under Patriarchy.

    We see a massive distribution difference between older women and younger women. Older women tend to not be nearly as solipsistic as younger women, though they all have some solipsism. Older women (55+ maybe?) received some elements of Patriarchal training. They attribute their thinking to younger women. Projection.

    Another example of why women conservatives are unreliable.

  64. Two close friends of mine killed themselves over a woman.

    Two good MEN.

    Two men with children.

    Nothing IB says about men committing suicide has any relevance at all, because she is not capable of the type of empathy required to understand the pain these men endured.

    She is quite literally speaking a different language.

    The fact that she insists that she is capable of understanding these men just proves the level of emotional immaturity and narcissism that she carries. That’s her burden, not mine, so who cares.

    If a women killed herself over the loss of an alpha male that she couldn’t keep, I would not pretend to understand how she felt. I am not capable of that type of empathy, as I am not a female.

    I can however, have compassion and sympathy. Which is where IB and I differ.

    Rollo, that is a horrible story about your brother-in-law. There is not much else I can say, other than thank you for what you do here.

  65. “Not all women are that narcissistic…are they?”

    AWALT, remember. But it depends on the situation. The more attention she gets, the more narcissistic she will be, just like every other women. This is also a consequence of solipsism.

  66. Being my own mental point of origin and having better control of my emotions has allowed me to love deeper in a healthy sense

    Maybe I haven’t gotten to that point yet. I do love women for who they are. They’re beautiful, adorable and vulnerable and weak – but I could never describe it as “deeper.” I love my wife like I love my children as someone I care for, but I don’t love like I did before. I don’t mourn by previous concept of love, but I would have a hard time not describing it as a hardening. I don’t understand how it would be possible for me to ever get oneitis again. Even if she was a pure unicorn, the moment you are vulnerable to her is the moment she begins to leave you. I feel like guys that get oneitis must not fully understand.

  67. “Not all women are that narcissistic…are they?”
    AWALT, remember. But it depends on the situation. The more attention she gets, the more narcissistic she will be, just like every other women. This is also a consequence of solipsism.”

    Depends on the man too, right? So a woman that is incredibly narcissistic with me may not be with someone more alpha, right?

  68. @ Rollo on Mansplaining

    I would really like to see a post on Mansplaining.

    One thing that would be good to cover is how logical constructs like:
    Non-contradiction
    Excluded middle
    Anecdotal Evidence (personal experience)
    Masked Man Fallacy
    Existential Fallacy

    Are all turned upside down and given no import to discussions with a woman.

    In my experience a woman WILL use a Logical Fallacy to rationalize out of any logical box a man puts her in.

    Oh and Vacuous Truth fallacy is my favorite.
    As any woman having a discussion with a man will never put herself in the set of “women behaving badly”. Therefore any conclusions a man makes about “women behaving badly” will be discarded because….

    wait for it….

    NAWALT – Because she is not. ever. at. fault.

    The very assertion of NAWALT is solipsistic. A woman’s mental point of origin is to place herself in a logical set of one apart from all human behavior. So no matter how relevant the discussion of human tendencies she will never see herself as being a part of the set of all women.

    Oh and I love how men are indited by the behavior of a small set of men (rapists). But women are not indited by the behavior of a small set of women (fake rape claimants). or AMALT

    NAWALT – because the woman you are talking to believes she is a special snowflake like no other… A set of one.

  69. “Do it for the children, its all for the children, we owe it to the children, its better for the children, what about the children? Don’t you care about the children?…..”

    Hence – If you don’t do what I want, I will hurt the children and it will be your fault. SO YOU BETTER DO IT BETA BOY!!!

  70. “Okay, I’ve had enough of your relentless abuse and unwillingness to communicate. As usual, continue your circle jerk without me. I have grown ups to play with.”

    I expect a few more male suicides in her area…

  71. “Depends on the man too, right? So a woman that is incredibly narcissistic with me may not be with someone more alpha, right?”

    WRONG!

    Don’t conflate alpha with white knight by hoping that being alpha cures her or changes her. She is still the same regardless. Remember you are still a tool either an ATM machine or a vibrator. That’s all you can be so enjoy your roles a you choose, not as she chooses.

  72. “In my experience a woman WILL use a Logical Fallacy to rationalize out of any logical box a man puts her in.”

    Women aren’t interested in being right. They are only interested in winning.

  73. CaveClown
    September 10th, 2015 at 11:36 am

    “Depends on the man too, right? So a woman that is incredibly narcissistic with me may not be with someone more alpha, right?”

    Yes. In her solipsism it’s all one, interconnected with everything. She will always try to get the frame to maximum self-serving and maximum narcissistic. That’s the female way of self-preservation. But if something dominant happens to be in her solipsistic unity, it will pull her away from that self-center.

    Not Born This Morning
    September 10th, 2015 at 11:45 am

    “Don’t conflate alpha with white knight by hoping that being alpha cures her or changes her. She is still the same regardless.”

    I think being with an alpha could actually cure a lot of issues of modern women. But to be that alpha you of course cannot do it to save her, but only for your enjoyment.

  74. I think it should be pointed out that solipsism doesn’t preclude men’s benefiting from it. If a man serves a woman’s existential experience she’s more than happy to include his existence into part or all of her own.
    Feminine solipsism is about a woman’s mental point of origin (herself and by extension womankind), not necessarily the specifics of how she applies it….

    @Seraph, I think now you have your answer about women and truth.

    Swear to God a little light bulb went of in my head.

    So, for example, if I learn to accept woman’s capacity for solipsism, I can use it to my benefit.

    For example, understanding that:

    -a woman who has a boyfriend will STILL fuck you if she feels it is something she wants to do.

    -a woman who claims she doesn’t ‘do things like that’, will ‘do things like that’, and probably HAS ‘done things like that’, if it will get her off

    (Blinks)

    Holy shit…

  75. Lh,

    So she’s more likely to ” fall in line” essentially with someone more alpha. Got it, thanks.

    Nbtm,

    I get that awalt I really do. But my 2 fuck buddies fall in line far easier than my wife does. I think it is because they have never seen my beta side, and the wife has, plus I am not alpha enough for the wife in general.

    Am I an atm or a sex toy? If that really is all I am to any particular woman I am ok with that, because I will choose which one to be or I will throw her out of my life.

    However, thinking that way leaves me with a cold heart. As beta as I am, I still lean towards considering women as just a wet hole. Surely there is more, even as a red pill man?

    Considerring women for no more than sex feels unhealthy. What does a healthy red pill relationship look like? I suppose I will find out through trial and error.

  76. @CaveClown – I’m looking at it the same way… They are solipsistic, driven by the feminine imperative, unwilling to use logic and reasoning…. For me it always goes back to the saying – Why did god give women vaginas? So men would talk to them. If they didn’t have vaginas would there actually be any reason at all to waste time dealing with all the BS? My vote is no.

    1. @Bigal
      “I wouldnt say the red pill hardens the heart. It merely wisens it.

      Being my own mental point of origin and having better control of my emotions has allowed me to love deeper in a healthy sense (not an uncontrolled, off the rails, oneitis sense). It makes me love women for who they are, not who I want them to be. Being blue pill is what really hardens the heart over time…”

      Best way to describe red pill resurrection.

      @Caveclown
      Sorry for your loss of the two men. That’s hard to read
      http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cG8ZQkeZvzc

      @Andy
      “the moment you are vulnerable to her is the moment she begins to leave you. I feel like guys that get oneitis must not fully understand.”

      I learned that by reading Rollo I was ignorant of what that meant in real life experiences for quiet some time.

      @kfg
      “Women aren’t interested in being right. They are only interested in winning.”

      That would make a great plaque in my room.

      @Rollo
      Thanks for bringing second class citizens to everyone’s attention. When I get back to dc I am going to visit Arlington cemetary for a run and for respect.

  77. @Rollo – Yeah – 20 years of marriage – everything I did was for her. She never had to work or want for anything. I built a business for her so she wouldn’t have to go out and deal with the real world. Now I get to start over… Luckily, I’m too much of a coward to kill myself – because there was a time that I definitely didn’t feel like going on

  78. “However, thinking that way leaves me with a cold heart. As beta as I am, I still lean towards considering women as just a wet hole. Surely there is more, even as a red pill man?”

    Rollo might link to “The bitter taste of the RedPill” or something. And I don’t know yet, still experimenting.

    But seeing women as wet holes or fucktoys seems to work well. In a marriage or closer LTR maybe it could be best to also see them as furniture (of your life). As we learned alpha isn’t that far from female in these things and from my experience in this “battle”: learning from women often means learning to win.

    What a Red Pill man should forget though is seeking emotional fulfillment, overcoming that fundamental loneliness of never get the desired love and closeness. Being dependent on these “meaningful and more fulfilling things” doesn’t work. And if you ask me: these things are just Oneitis. An addiction. Or taking the desire for something as more real than the real thing.

  79. Mike,

    They are unable to use logic and reason, not unwilling. But yeah, it’s hard not to reduce them to entertainment only.

    My problem is I like having a woman around full time. But after this cluster fuck of a marriage I don’t think that will ever happen again.

    I just have no goals right now, and it drives me insane.

    In some ways I still feel like roosh is search of his unicorn. I just have yet to firmly change my point of origin to myself. Moving forward everyday though.

  80. Considering women for no more than sex feels unhealthy. What does a healthy red pill relationship look like?

    In a red pill relationship the woman will actually be in love and admire you. You get to rule the roost. It’s not bad.

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