The Pareto Principle

Pareto

An interesting side discussion was started in what proved to be a very popular post thread for The War Brides of Europe, and rather than let it disappear beneath a thousand-plus comments I thought I’d pick up on an old post I’ve had in my drafts for a while now.

One of the foundational ideas of Red Pill awareness from the earliest PUA years has been the 80/20 concept – 80% of women want to have sex and / or pair off with the top 20% of men. This has been a fast and loosely defined in terms of subjective sexual market value (SMV) between men and women and the ratio of disparity between those valuations.

In intersexual terms, this 80/20 rule finds its roots in the economic theory known as the Pareto Principle: “80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients.” While I’m not sure the principle is directly translatable, it mirror the general rule of Hypergamy and women’s innate drive to optimize their sexual strategy with who they perceive as the top tier 20% (Alphas) men are fucking the 80% lion’s share of women. Many a despondent Beta picks up on the principle and uses this to justify his failures to connect with women.

I’m of the opinion that the 80/20 rule is often abused to justify men’s failures or successes with women (more often failure), however the fundamental notion is both observable and easily verifiable in-field as well as statistically. It is however important to keep in mind that the 80/20 rule as it applies to Hypergamy is often bastardized in its inverse. The presumption goes that if 80% of women want to have sex with the top 20% of men it should necessarily mean that the top 20% of men are fucking 80% of women. Many a despondent Beta picking up on this dynamic will use this assumption to disqualify himself from Game or give up in futility. More on this later.

As a point of reference, it’s important to remember that Hypergamy doesn’t seek its own level with regard to SMV comparisons. Rather, Hypergamy is always seeking a socio-sexual pairing that is a ‘better than’ exchange for a woman’s own, realistically comparative, SMV. And as I’ve mentioned previously, Hypergamy is always pragmatic about establishing that ‘better than’ SMV exchange with men’s.

While the Red Pill’s expanded definition of Hypergamy encompasses far more than just ‘marrying up‘, the 80/20 sexual selection process is simple enough that even Aunt Giggles in her heyday could illustrate it:

hypergamy-in-a-pic

As you might guess the fundaments of basic Hypergamy are easy to understand, so the tendency is to oversimplify the complexities that really define Hypergamy and how the 80/20 basics play out. And lastly, it’s important to bear in mind the dual nature of women’s Hypergamous filtering, impulses and attendant emotional investments – the 80/20 dynamic applies to both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of Hypergamy, however the characteristics that would optimize the former tend to come at the expense of the latter (and vice versa).

All that said, the 80/20 principle is fairly simple; a majority of women across the broadest SMV spectrum (80%) will always want for a ‘better than’ pairing (both sexual and provisional) than their own comparative SMV.

If the underlying mechanics of Hypergamy-inspired desire were only about a 1 or 2 step difference in SMV the distribution ratio wouldn’t be 80/20. As sophomoric as it is the above graph is relatively accurate: an SMV 3 woman is desirous of an SMV 8 or above man as representative of a Hypergamously optimal pairing (sex and/or provisioning).

For the 80/20 rule to hold true we’re looking at a comparative difference of 5 steps in SMV. Now, granted, this is on the extreme end of the spectrum, and it should also be noted that SMV is also a question of context and based on a woman’s ‘filtering’ perception of a man’s SMV being legitimate. However, this doesn’t alter the ‘better than’ merited pragmatism of Hypergamy.

Whether or not a woman is actually capable of this optimization isn’t relative to understanding the principle. Indeed, with the expansion of instant communication, social emphasis of women’s empowerment and esteem, and the influence social media exercises over the female ego, an SMV 3 woman of today might likely believe she is in fact deserving of a man 5 steps above her own (a good example). But for purposes of understanding how the Pareto principle applies to intersexual dynamics we must focus on the latent purposes for it to exist.

Common Errors

The easiest (or most convenient) mistake to make about this dynamic is to presume that the consolidation of Hypergamy (locking down a man 5 to 1 steps higher in SMV in monogamy) defines the 80/20 rule. Remember, this principle is about desire and women’s expected (entitled?) satisfaction of it, not the actual consolidation (LTR) of that Hypergamous ideal.

In the prior thread the conversation centered on the mistaken idea that the Pareto Principle is not universal or is only observed in some systems, but not in human sexuality. To which I’d argue that in no other system is this principle more evident than intersexual dynamics – and not just among humans but countless other species. It’s unflattering to the disguise in which the Feminine Imperative would put it in, but, whether realizable or not, the 80/20 rule practically defines female desire.

The second mistake it to presume the inverse: that 20% of men actually get 80% of women. Usually this gets trotted out as an equal-for-equal argument that presumes, again, that desire should necessarily translate into consolidation. Betas and lower SMV men do get laid and pair off with women for any number of reasons, but the principle isn’t about who’s actually fucking who. Rather, it’s about who has more access to sexually available women based on their SMV valuation. Nice Guys may finish last, but they do finish eventually – whether they finish ‘well’ is a thought for another post.

A third common mistake, made mostly by women, presumes the goal-state outcome of intersexual dynamics should be to arrive at a monogamous state. This is the consolidation of a female sexual strategy, and because we live in a feminine-primary social order, that committed, monogamous end to women’s sexual strategy is perceived as the socially “correct” goal. At no point is men’s imperative interests (sexual or life-rewarding) a priority, if it’s considered at all, in the Hypergamous equation. In the absence (or disregard) of men’s conflicting interests the Feminine Imperative substitutes what best fits its own interests as the socially ‘appropriate’ goals for men. Then it qualifies ‘manhood’ according to its proxy interests for men, so that any man not measuring up to them are not considered truly ‘men’ by its definition.

Women’s innate Hypergamous nature ensures a distributive model for desire that aligns with the Pareto Principle – even if the overall result of women settling for less than optimal Hypergamy appears to contradict it. Again, it’s important to remember that women’s Hypergamous desires are often not reflected by the outcome of those desires.

Want is not have

The concept that a woman’s Hypergamous imperative wouldn’t be a mutual goal between the sexes is an alien thought to most women.  Much in the same way that men idealistically want to believe women mutually share their concept of love for love’s sake (and free from the conditions of their Burden of Performance), women are mistaken in believing men’s sexual strategy is synonymous with the female strategy and shares a mutual end. By way of feminine solipsism and a social order that only considers women’s imperatives as legitimate, collective feminine social consciousness rarely gives men’s imperatives an afterthought – and then only when they become problematic to the Feminine Imperative.

Women subconsciously reinforce the feminine-correct goal state of LTR monogamy by a continuous, autonomous, expectation of its fulfillment – even when that fulfillment creates cognitive dissonance with their short term vs. long term sexual strategy. It’s part of women’s Hypergamous firmware to do so because it ensures (or tries to) their subconscious need for parental investment and long term security / provisioning.

What women necessarily must disregard is that their own sexual strategy choices are determined by the want to pair with a mate who exceeds her own SMV. Thus, the Pareto principle applies.

In Open Hypergamy I made mention that there is a social transitioning taking place among women where revealing the uglier side of Hypergamy is becoming more acceptable. The degree of comfort with which women have in revealing the machinations of Hypergamy is proportional to their capacity to play the 80/20 game well enough to consolidate on a 20th percentile man (or his closest approximation). For women still uncomfortable with openly embracing the uglier side of Hypergamy concealing the truth about the 80/20 becomes a practical priority. You will find in the future that many of the conflicts you read between Strong Independent Women® of differing social or moral perspectives will be based in their degree of comfort in openly relating the machinations of Hypergamy.

Women for whom keeping the 80/20 rule concealed from men’s popular consciousness (women with less capacity to compete intrasexually) can ill afford to have men aware of their own SMV and how it affects their long term sexual strategy. High value Red Pill aware men have the leisure to exploit Hypergamy and low value Red Pill men aware of their Hypergamous role risk denying women of the resources to provision them in the long term.

The Male Side of the Principle

Way back in the Peak Hypergamy post Hollenhund got me thinking about how the Hypergamous  aspect of the Pareto Principle can become men’s primary source of frustration and apathy:

I have to COMPLETELY OVERCOME all my handicaps to the point where I am BETTER than 80% of men at least.

I have to have my shit together better than the vast majority of men. I’m having a hard enough time just getting to be AVERAGE, but what I need to do in order to have any kind of sex life and get ANY of my sexual needs met AT ALL is be better than the vast majority of guys out there.

So, in other words, you’ll end up killing yourself anyway, but you’ll do it the slow way, by making sure you’ll end up an exhausted wretch with an ulcer, high blood pressure and similar health problems? Because that’s what you’re basically saying there.

I tend to think of how men confront the challenge of their performance burden is a parallel to their understanding of the 80/20 rule. On some level of consciousness men either possess some evolved instinct for it, or they develop some learned understanding of their own role in relation to how the 80/20 dynamic applies to them.

I think much of what frustrates men about assessing their own SMV in a Blue Pill mindset comes from an instinctual understanding of the 80/20 rule and reconciling it with what they’re being socialized to believe women ought to evaluate them for. Before any Game, before any Red Pill awareness, men’s first deductive impression is to classify themselves into SMV respective “leagues“, and women who would or wouldn’t be sexually accessible according to those leagues.

Ironically, even men’s Blue Pill league evaluations fail to account for women’s 1-5 SMV step over evaluation of their own SMV. The equalist agenda teaches men that their leagues should be based on a like-for-like parallel, when Hypergamy really demands men’s SMV be well above that of women.

This of course gets distorted once men begin to become Red Pill aware and over-exaggerate the abstract concept of Alpha and how it applies to themselves. In a way they fall victim to believing they must become an Alpha parody in order to measure up to women’s apex fallacy impression of a top 20% man.

Needless to say Red Pill awareness and applied Game will reveal the truth about the 80/20 rule. Initially it seems like a horribly unjust set of conditions for an ‘average’ man, but the rule is still based on the fundamental biological and psychological underpinnings of Hypergamy, and therefore open to exploits for a Red Pill aware man.

Quality Assurances

Web

In the above example (h/t Young Patriarch) we can see the comparison between a naturalistic, Hypergamous socio-sexual order contrasted with an idealized socio-sexual structure. The Sexual Freedom model mirrors the 80/20 rule, while the Regulated model is representative of an idealized structure designed with the intent to evenly justify pairings according to a distributive monogamy.

As I mentioned earlier, men have an instinctual understanding about how the 80/20 Pareto Principle applies to women’s Hypergamy. And while Game is a modern contingency for it I would argue that the cross-culture concept of a monogamous marriage between men and women was a broader contingency designed not just to counter women’s Pareto-centered sexual strategy, but to ensure a greater majority of (lesser SMV) men had the opportunity to pass on their genetic heritage.

I could point out that the Regulated model above is very representative of an egalitarian model for monogamy based again on the like-for-like presumption, but Hypergamy being what it naturally is will always confound that ideal. However, I have to also point out that the Regulated ideal has always been a convenient selling tool to keep both men and women ignorant of the uglier, visceral nature of the Hypergamous sexual marketplace.

Marriage as a social adaptation serves (or served) as a negotiated buffer against Hypergamy, but it also serves as a perceived buffer against men’s Burden of Performance that would otherwise necessitate the constant super-achievement that Hollenhund describes above. As a social dynamic marriage was a Beta breeding insurance policy that conveniently enough took root about the time human beings began to adopt a largely agrarian lifestyle.

Today equalism and the fantasy of an idealized, mutually beneficial monogamy based on the Old Set of Books is little more than a contingent workaround for the 80/20 rule reality. As this idealism decays and is replaced by either Red Pill awareness or men learning the harsh realities of modern marriage liability the more we will see a shift away from the Regulated model in favor of a now openly Hypergamous model.

Recently NY Mag had yet another feminist triumphalism article in the same vein as the Atlantic’s End of Men article (apparently 6 years is the period in which the femosphere believes popular awareness of its bullshit memes end). However there was this one salient point that illustrates this shift in monogamy:

In 2009, the proportion of American women who were married dropped below 50 percent. In other words, for the first time in American history, single women (including those who were never married, widowed, divorced, or separated) outnumbered married women. Perhaps even more strikingly, the number of adults younger than 34 who had never married was up to 46 percent, rising 12 percentage points in less than a decade. For women under 30, the likelihood of being married has become astonishingly small: Today, only around 20 percent of Americans are wed by age 29, compared to the nearly 60 percent in 1960.

In the old order of monogamy the mutually beneficial exchange centered on quality assurances, either via polygamy (sexual assurances) or monogamy (provisonal assurances) in a Beta context. These assurances, having been more or less compensated for by men’s willing or unwilling assistance via social and legislative means, are no longer an incentive for women to marry or commit to a long term monogamy, and this is evidenced in almost a decade of statistics that show this decline.

A Wife for Every Beta

In Christian Dread I made mention of Nick Krausers’ appearance on London Real. For a bit more elaboration on this principle cue the video to 5:00 and watch until about 8:33.

A wife for every Beta is the old order negotiated social contract function of committed monogamy. In a state of nature where 80% of men can never be assured of a genetic legacy, most men have no incentive to participate in an organized society. What the Regulated model of sexuality does (albeit inefficiently) is gives Beta males the incentive to cooperate in larger society by establishing monogamy as the predominant social order. And then, as Krauser mentions these societies tend to outperform those based on a Hypergamous, naturalistic socio-sexual structure.

As mentioned this arrangement was based on an exchange of long term security for women for assurances of sexual access and ultimately a genetic legacy. Essentially it was a negotiated compromise of the desire for the Alpha Fucks aspect of Hypergamy for the assurances of a long term Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy. By today’s socio-sexual standard this old order arrangement is supplanted with the relatively assured guarantee of satisfying both aspects of Hypergamy at different phases of a woman’s maturity in life. Thus we see the Epiphany Phase, Alpha Widowhood and every variety of schema I outline in Preventive Medicine.

The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized Hypergamy. We revert back to an open acceptance of the 80/20 realities that, if we’re honest, always informed even a Regulated socio-sexual model of monogamy.

In the new era of Open Hypergamy, women’s only necessitated compromise of her sexual strategy depends on her exaggerated self-impression of her SMV measured against her capacity to lock down an optimal male. This also explains the endless push to create self-confident, self-important ‘independent’ women. Women’s naturalistic predilection for the 80/20 Pareto Principle of sexual selection virtually assures their long term isolation – thus the need for a self-created impression of women’s self-sufficiency.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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scribblerg
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@Sun – Do you remember an FR from me a couple of months ago when out with my wing? I worked this 20 yr old hottie waitress for my wing and even number closed for him? Fyi, just as Ya predicted, my wing fucked it up. He didn’t understand she just wanted to fuck, lol… The insight for me was that my subcomms were so good because I was not trying to have her fuck me. You see, what this revealed is that I don’t see myself as entitled to 20yo, hot, petite pussy. I don’t seen myself as the… Read more »

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@Sun

@Sun

The opening was easy because you had no EGO invested in it…

There you go. That’s all you need to fix it.

almost word for word what i was going to write…lol

good luck!

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Niko

Doesn’t it get tiring to hear every girl state NAWALT when they all do exactly the same shit and respond to exactly the same shit?

Suppose you were gathering data, would it get tiring to find that every data point fit into your hypothesis? Or would it be refreshing, invigorating, amusing?

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@thwack re Blaximus at feb 25 at 1:04pm See? Look at you Blaximus, that pussyjuice is even drippin down on you (((shakin my head))) Why are you shufflin around hat in hand before you drop a truth bomb? thats your job; thats my job; black people got hung from trees for telling the truth; its 2016, why are you soft shoeing? ya know… i really didn’t get that feeling at ALL… all ((I)) saw was an essay on minimizing the effects of the FI while living your life…he just used his own experience (in this case race) as a way… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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And when average female quality declines, the bottom 80% of men will become even less motivated to stay in the game. 70% of them are already fat, and most men have abandoned the game. I believe you mean “have become”. I mean both. The bottom 80% of men are already weakly motivated, but current trends indicate they will be demotivated even further. And it also looks assured that the obesity epidemic will worsen as well. It’s all interconnected. The obesity epidemic obviously didn’t appear out of thin air. It isn’t like millions of young women woke up one day and… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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One minor question: Do you believe that ‘natural alphas’ can benefit from game It can help them understand the effects of their alpha attributes, and avoid potential mistakes. Many naturals apparently have no clue about the real reasons they attract women. Many of them are blue pill. YeReally was right to point out in another thread that many naturals give useless advice to betas about pick-up. They’ll think stuff like “wow I was really killing it last night at the club, so it was obviously a great idea to get a new haircut and that flashy new suit”. Yeah right.… Read more »

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By the way, I don’t believe there’s such a creature as a “former natural”.

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“By the way, I don’t believe there’s such a creature as a “former natural”.”

So many natural alphas becomes a beta when he is father of a daughter.
(beta fathers just go deeper into the shithole).

Some kind of switch just flips in them and all they want to do is protect their daughters, while sending their sons to war is Mehh!.

Rollo seems to have escaped this predicament.
Glenn did not.

Roy Hobbs
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All, I would very much like to express my gratitude for everything TRM is and contains. A mere two months ago, I could have been sitting next to you at a bar and- after more than a few- sincerely told you that I thought I was losing my mind. Long-ass elevator version (please forgive any misuse of RP acronyms… I have only recently started digesting the red pill: Early years (through my new RP lens): Oldest child/golden child/rule-follower. Mom was/is a controlling NPD who uses and manipulates whatever she needs to in order to get her way. Dad is tough… Read more »

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@Hollen – Again, great analysis. But I have another question. Isn’t that same teenage girl responding to what I call the “Sex in the City” promise too? A new future has been presented to women that wasn’t available 50 years ago. It looks like this: Ride the cock carousel. Get a career. Men and family aren’t necessary for happiness. Men will be abundant forever. And today what’s happening is the FI is trying to make sure fat and ugly girls can have all those goodies too. So it’s not just that the more traditional lifestyle is a PITA (pain in… Read more »

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@ Scribblerg Old FR ; I was invited to participate in an EMS MCI training event,by a female prof. that had subed for my class once. And to keep me from taking away any experience from her students I was plced in the position as staging officer shared w/ a young hb9,this was fun,The whole exercise was filmed by a local station,and I wound up on tv.I wasn’t aware of this filming and was suprised when my CO called to tell me some woman had called the station looking for me.He wouldn’t give out my # but got her name… Read more »

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Male suicide rates are sometimes mentioned here

I looked up the CDC 2014 numbers and there is not an epidemic

White males are the most likely to die of suicide, and about 30 of 10,000 of them will die each decade, with the rate climbing in their late forties and 50s, and then declining. Their rate is about 3-4X non-white males and 3-4X females.

theasdgamer
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Blax’s posts still hit it out of the park.

Re “tighter”:

Once a broad who has had kids gets an O, her tissues swell and fucking becomes like trudging through molasses. Lube makes it more fun. She may have enough natural lube at first, but then the surface area increases and more lube is needed if you want a fast cycle. An old broad can provide a lot of pressure.

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@Hollen – Re: “Former natural alpha”. I am socially dominant and women have always found me attractive. After my divorce at age 30, I used my natural abilities to some success with women but was always Blue Pill as shit as you said, in most ways. I did have a bit of an abundance mentality as result, and I never got friendzoned cuz i closed, fucked or didn’t and moved on. But I pedestalized women so much. I guess the “former” bit comes to play in the sense that I had good externals to validate my confidence back then and… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Re ego investment: You should always be less invested than any potential mate. This means that you have to be continually calibrating both your own investment and the investment of the women who are potential mates. If any woman has less investment than you do, avoid her. You need to keep enough options so that you don’t run into scarcity. Open a lot of women. Follow my maxim: “Always be calibrating.” Calibrate the woman you’re currently with and calibrate your own investment in the woman. Run away if the investment differential isn’t in your favor. See my post: https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2016/02/25/always-be-calibrating/ Loading...

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@Roy Hobbs February 27th, 2016 at 9:35 am Great story, man. Congratulations on finding this place and welcome. Hoping the best for you. The best time to have found this place would have been 20 years ago. The next best time is two months ago. Lol. It is interesting you mention being ENTJ. And your story except for the blue pill part fits that personality type like a glove. And it seems like your girfriend’s intuitive (N) type is a good match (although would would work better with another opposing trait for balance in your relationship). Have you looked into… Read more »

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@Asdgamer In regards to your always be calibrating blog essay, it reminded me of Chapter 51 in the Book of Pook called “Ooh La La”. “When you’re out socially, you want to be in the moment…enjoying yourself, having fun, relaxed. Not spergy or anal or negative or analyzing. You want to have your party animal hat on. However, when you’re with women, you need to pay a little attention to how they are feeling. Consider their feelings an entertaining show that you’re watching. You get to play with their feelings and watch their responses. It’s possible to get so mesmerized… Read more »

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so, my question to you is…

‘WHY are you trying to pull that crab that’s climbing out, back into your pot? — HABD
—————————————

Blaximus’ responce is proof he knows thats not my function. Besides, whats a little good crab/bad crab among friends?

whatcountryyoufrom?

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White males are the most likely to die of suicide, and about 30 of 10,000 of them will die each decade, with the rate climbing in their late forties and 50s, and then declining. Their rate is about 3-4X non-white males and 3-4X females.

Suicide rate for men being ground by the divorce industry is about 4x that of average man. So a white man being frivorced is 8x more likely to kill himself than his wife.

It’s his “privilege”…

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@quixotic <3 A big part of why guys idealize the James Bond method is that they are BORING PEOPLE lol They aren't really consciously aware of this thought process but their brain basically goes "ok look, we aren't fun or interesting…being interesting we can fix, we can just look at a bunch of interesting facts and learn some shit, we don't really have to leave our comfort zone for that…but being FUN is HARD, it means putting your ego on the line and risking people thinking you're lame, what if you goof around and you think it's funny but other… Read more »

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More gold from YaReally. Only one observation to add is that I’ve occasionally had the hot-girl-qualifying-herself-to-me thing on a smaller scale (like I’ll pass a shit test on text and she’ll send a naked pic of herself to me..). It’s a real mind-mess thing at first – it’s like “Wait? Is SHE trying to impress me with her sexuality? Because..maybe..she feels that’s the primary value she can offer to me and she’s trying to offer value to me?”. Or as I’ve started (very recently) experimenting with takeaways and push/pull on text (stuff like “Wait, you can’t [cook/dance/whatever]? That’s it! We… Read more »

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@scribblerg “@Sun – Do you remember an FR from me a couple of months ago when out with my wing? I worked this 20 yr old hottie waitress for my wing and even number closed for him? Fyi, just as Ya predicted, my wing fucked it up. He didn’t understand she just wanted to fuck, lol…” lol knew it. Like I say, guys can have girls throw themselves at them and still not be able to seal the deal because they have shitty game. Gotta see it in action over and over and see how surreal it is to fully… Read more »

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@Culum “It’s a real mind-mess thing at first – it’s like “Wait? Is SHE trying to impress me with her sexuality? Because..maybe..she feels that’s the primary value she can offer to me and she’s trying to offer value to me?”.” Yup, this. She knows instinctively what her value to you is. To the asexual chode she knows her value could be her intelligence or her driven passion in her retarded career. But to a guy who’s flipping the right attraction switches, she KNOWS her value is her pussy. “Or as I’ve started (very recently) experimenting with takeaways and push/pull on… Read more »

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@scribblerg “@Sun – Do you remember an FR from me a couple of months ago when out with my wing? I worked this 20 yr old hottie waitress for my wing and even number closed for him? Fyi, just as Ya predicted, my wing fucked it up. He didn’t understand she just wanted to fuck, lol…” Also one of the reasons I stress that you have to be out actively trying to fuck these girls (which isn’t to discount what Rollo says but like, frontline reports hold weight over casual observation is all), is because if you just didn’t talk… Read more »

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” It’s why they just numb themselves with Netflix and videogames and porn and fast food and booze and drugs etc” dangerous to lump “drugs” in with that rough group. people who have little experience with mind altering tend to think of “drugs” as a kind of homogeneous “bad” when there are huge differences among them, especially in strains of cannabis because a well bred lovingly tended perfectly ripened sativa isn’t “weed” anymore than a 4 and a 10 are both hotties just because they both have pussies I’d actually pay to see infield of the Rsd crew running their… Read more »

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@scribblerg One last thing with that Valentino clip that again goes back to what I was saying. If Valentino HADN’T interrupted, that girl might’ve fucked the taller better looking guy with his gay passive game, because she’s a girl, she’s horny, he’s there, it might work out for him. That’s why I say ya looks are fine if no one interferes. But once Valentino steps in the girl gives no fucks about that dude anymore, and it’s not because Valentino is a Chad Thundercock stud lol But anyone who just saw the interaction BEFORE Valentino stepped in, including that other… Read more »

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Ya your on fire, the internal vs external validation is the business. Thanks for your honesty Scribs, it’s worth it. “There’s something primal about it, like your brain instinctively knows that failing with women is something to fear and often doesn’t want to confront the cold harsh truths about how you really view yourself and your worth” My problem is allowing some ditzy little cunt to be the arbiter of my self worth, ceding that power to the other is terrifying, so I shield myself from that pain by not playing. I hate them for having that power. Unlike Odysseus… Read more »

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@ Johny Ya I have spent a lot of time alone up in the attic.And also am prone to wade to deep in bitter creek,to the point of drowning.It’s like being mad at someone and hitting myself in the head w/ a hammer. Realizing the root of anger is my own unmet expectations has helped and getting my expectations in line w/ reality RP aware helps. This shouldn’t be limiting but more a realization the sky’s the limit. Have mainly followed my own lead forever,and hit many mountains to climb.So the question becomes is it a challenge or an opportunity?… Read more »

theasdgamer
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@ YaReally Imakeyboardjockey keyboarded, Which is why I’m such a fucking asshole to everyone about going out and calling everyone who doesn’t go out keyboard jockeys theorizing on bullshit they don’t understand lol You HAVE to go out. Regularly. And you have to be trying to put your dick into young hotties. You can’t just observe from the sidelines or theorize. You have to be on the frontlines pushing your comfort zones. Single men need to be on pussy patrol. Married men need to be flirting early and often, not necessarily wetting their wicks with some strange snail trail. You… Read more »

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The being out in the field to PUA’s is the being infield (in the home and socializing) to those in an LTR. Yareally is right for single males go outy. For those of us married go inny. And forcing yourself beyond automatic. Beyond your comfort zone. Don’t be afraid of plateaus. They just mean you learned it. But then move on. Now keep in mind your resources available. If you are running on empty, stick in the plateau stage. This is normal. You need fuel in order to run. Don’t be afraid to plateau and get your provisions right for… Read more »

thwack
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The Aspeegamer is one of the Chateau cult members who ran ya really off that site.

Now this clown is up in here trying to ride YRs dick?

Somebody please slap the shit out this punk if you see him on the street.

SJF
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@ASDgamer “You were correct about talking to other men.” Interacting with other men, having them as guy friends, enjoying their criticism (I have to invite it, they rarely give it) is the way of men. It is a meritocracy that our brains are hardwired for before the noise occurred in the last couple hundred years. Embrace it and incorporate it. “Last night I had a wing for the first time. It was very cool for both of us.” YGBSM. Wings are good in Game. Chose wisely and treat kindly. “And the interaction here is awesome.” I assume you mean on… Read more »

SJF
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I watched Kingsman: The Secret Service tonight. Me for the second time and my wife for the first. A quote by one of the main characters that was emblematic of Blaximus being out of the crab barrel and a thousand miles away from that barrel: “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” ― Ernest Hemingway Blaximus posts gold about the masculine way of doing and being. For a long time here. @Thwack Asdgamer will stand on his meritorious comments here or not. The past is not prologue.… Read more »

Kaminsky
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@Emily,

you said;

“I should call out someone when he’s clearly living in a bullshit fantasy where he is a 40/50 yo having sex with 50 hot 19 year olds.”

No passport, eh?

SJF
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In that vein, the obverse is not making the target too comfortable. Not making the seducee too comfortable, so as she plateaus into comfort an reliability and automaticity. I a STR or LTR make her feel anxiety. like it is another steep ascent up the mountain in the attraction/comfort/seducing. Don’t let her plateau and feel comfort. Don’t let her be equalist. egalitarian and non polar with the masculine. Polarity with masculine/feminine is the driver of desire. So drive it. Someone said dont be ——-, be \/\/\/\//\. Ride her on the rollercoaster. Allow anxiety, indignation and an emotional ride. But I’m… Read more »

Just Saying
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where I am BETTER than 80% of men at least This is clearly false and I’m the living proof of it – women don’t want “better” they want the man other women want, and society drills in their heads that they should want. This is why I have chosen the areas of my hobbies – while my job gives me the wherewithal to do what I want, It is my hobbies that bring the women I enjoy to me in largest concentrations. It’s just a numbers game – I’ll bring 10 hot women, 50 okay women, and more women into… Read more »

PmfJ
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I’ve been lurking in the shadows for what seems like an eternity, though it’s more like 12-18 months now. Seems I’ve finally worked up the courage to post. Hello. You guys inspire the fuck outta me. Just turned 36, actual p in v N=5. Married at 19. Super dom to the wife, never really fell in love with her. Though i did care about her and stepped into the provider roll i was groomed for. Have 3 kids with her. I got fat as fuck. Like 365 lbs… She refused to take care of herself or step up and be… Read more »

hank holiday
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@culum @forge @anon @yareally @any other FR guys Glad I wrote up the FR on the 8 south american girl, since I ran into a south american girl at work today that it helped me out with. There’s a vendor where I work who’s a 7. She works there on Saturdays maybe once every 2 or 3 weeks. I met her once before and she seemed to like me. Today an employee complained about the 7, that she took some of her things without asking. In hindsight, that seems somewhat unlikely, as the 7 is very good at what she… Read more »

hank holiday
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and that 666 was just a stand in for the area code, where you say the local area code to prompt her to finish her number. but i think actually saying 666 might be funny.

scribblerg
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@Ya – That was some powerful shit, thanks. Didn’t game tonight, my state was crap.

@SJF – Yeah, SAD is in full swing now. Come on spring!

@Johnnycome – I get it. But the question is what now? The past is prologue as SJF said above. What hits me hardest now is seeing how completely inept I am at being my own point of mental origin. I’m just habituated to thinking otherwise. I also am so hung up on my externals, holy shit.

Sun Wukong
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FR Was a decent night, hung out with the new friend again. Unfortunately the scenes we wound up at had slim pickings, but I pulled 3 numbers. One off the waitress we had at the first place (butterface, but holy SHIT her body was banging), one off a chick playing Cards Against Humanity with us at a bar with her boyfriend (yeah her interest was pretty obvious even with her boyfriend sitting on the other side of her trying to mate guard), and one off the chick my buddy invited to join us off Tinder. He felt like she wouldn’t… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@hank holiday – dude, great work again. It sounds like you’re really making progress which is the main thing. I did think you had a buffer issue, but with the additional details you’ve posted, it sounds more like you’re just a Thrill of the Hunt guy to an extreme level (I’m thrill of the hunt too, but (a) I still have some basic sexual needs; and (b) the thrill is in the process itself, although of course, better with a hotter girl). There’s nothing wrong with being as Thrill of the Hunt as you, but the thing is, it is… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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Isn’t that same teenage girl responding to what I call the “Sex in the City” promise too? A new future has been presented to women that wasn’t available 50 years ago. It looks like this: Ride the cock carousel. Get a career. Men and family aren’t necessary for happiness. Men will be abundant forever. And today what’s happening is the FI is trying to make sure fat and ugly girls can have all those goodies too. So it’s not just that the more traditional lifestyle is a PITA (pain in the ass for those not acronym savvy), it’s that they… Read more »

Liz
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I won’t argue over the specifics above HH since I think you’re right to a degree (but not entirely…I know far too many women who actually pay to work when all the direct and indirect expenses are factored in, and I’m not speaking of rich people).
Even assuming what you’re saying is perfectly true, there can be a big difference between a career and a job. The career is more the family killer (either preemptively or post hoc).

Roused
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SJF wrote: “And forcing yourself beyond automatic. Beyond your comfort zone. Don’t be afraid of plateaus. They just mean you learned it. But then move on.” I’ve been experiencing the plateau for the past few weeks. Some good moments here and there for learning, but basically coasting. After hitting TRM daily since September even my enthusiasm here waned. Not that the topics weren’t interesting or I wasn’t getting benefit, just felt like stepping away a bit. I’ve wondered a few times what has become of Cave Clown. It’s like when there is real need to figure something out important I… Read more »

Roy Hobbs
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@SJF
February 27th, 2016 at 11:57 am

Thanks

“Have you looked into your strength and weaknesses in general, in romantic relationships, and in parenting on Meyers-Briggs web sites in order to optimize your success?”

Honestly- the thought never occurred to me to apply M-B to relationships/parenting (having a d-oh! moment here…). It’s always been in the context of corporate team building stuff, so I know my ENT are all huge, but my J barely fell over the line. So if M-B is a relative tool, I am the P to my LTR’s strong J.

Will be reading more- thanks again. RH

Emily
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“No passport, eh?”

Ohhhh yeah, I forgot you guys can go overseas to take advantage of poor young women in third world countries.

thwack
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Has anyone produced a wordpress app that allows readers to pick and choose commenters to “grey out” or redact?

These multi page threads would be great if they didn’t get stunk up with certain commenters; such as those from the squat to pee club…

scribblerg
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More from my edge of darkness.It’s amazing to me how I am so unable to please my self, to serve myself, to get selfishly motivated – to become my own point of mental origin. I mentioned above how the denigration from my Dad ground self-loathing into me at a young age, but as I let myself sink into where I am and what’s actually happening, I realize so much more is going on. The moral universe I grew up in was a conventional Irish Catholic-American one. And in this world, being selfish and self-focused was considered wrong. As a man,… Read more »

Culum Struan
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@hank holiday, btw I am still working through Julien’s SHIFT (which you may have seen) and he has a good bit in the Getting Your References section about why it is important to talk to everyone and hit on everyone, even if the girl isn’t your physical type – it’s just good practice and building reference experiences.

It’s basically what I’ve been trying to express to you. Check it out.

Sun Wukong
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Ohhhh yeah, I forgot you guys can go overseas to take advantage of poor young women in third world countries.

Said the woman taking advantage of some poor cuck bastard in a first world country. When you fall off a horse that high you’re gonna break your fuckin’ neck, cupcake.

Roy Hobbs
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@Scribblerg “I feel some real sympathy for my Dad … a tortured soul, as so many men are. This is the real Red Pill journey; Self ownership and actualization, breaking free of the false consciousness of the Blue Pill and embracing oneself.” I wonder in what way our lives would have been different had even the basics of RP been taught by fathers to sons… Instead, growing-up in the default BP matrix- treading water out at sea, no land in sight and the FI dorsal fins circling closer. I am grateful to have to have found this path; both for… Read more »

Blaximus
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I’m still catching up on all the comments, but I wanna jump in and give a huge shout out to all the commenters here. Hello Gentlemen!!! As I always say, there’s some good work here. @ scribblerg- Your comment @ February 28th, 2016 at 10:07 am man, deep stuff. I loved it. There’s nothing for me to add of substance to the things you typed. But I feel compelled, soooooo….. IRL I don’t know many people who would feel as though they are the prize. Women have that luxury because society is tilted that way. Hollen had some pretty good… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@ Scribblerg One of The things I noticed doing volunteer work is it is a selfish occupation.One woman has a wall of shame she hangs her certificates and awards on. After the 08 bust I found myself w/ nothing to do and feeling useless,stripped of my business, the power ,respect and sense of accomplishment. I found a local nonprofit and volunteered,put in four years ,doing small jobs on the side for income. In the process I regained my self-respect,met alot of good people and a few bad. The big contracts started rolling in and I no longer have the time,but… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Stuff- We must learn to be comfortable Just With Ourselves. I can’t stress the importance. There was a point in life where I was ” my job “. It was a mental flaw for me. External shit has to be kept in perspective. It is all separate from who we actually are. It may ” say something ” about us, but it never defines us. It’s cool to be happy with an occupation or our place in life, but we can’t become those things, because they are ” things ” and we are men. ” Like you my family… Read more »

Sentient
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@hoellenhund2 “The traditional path is only open to two small segments of women: (A) daughters of the upper class, and (B) daughters of hardcore traditionalist families. (A) have high rates of marriage, and typically marry well-paid upper class men willing and able to finance the SAHM lifestyle of their wives if they opt for that. (B) belong to a tiny counterculture where it’s normal to live on some isolated farm in difficult conditions, raise many homeschooled children as SAHMs, and grow their own food, all under the authority of the husband.” and “The SAHM option is beyond the reach for… Read more »

stuffinbox
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@ Blaximus I agree we are not our jobs, or what we own, or the number of people we are responsible for. But when we lose these things there is a big hole to fill or contemplate. And really the best quickest way to get out of my own head is to help someone else,and there are plenty of people that can use a hand.I would like to volunteer at a soup kitchen or red cross next time. My head is full of plans and dreams,stuff to build and fix,new fishing holes to find, forest to clear. But if I… Read more »

Blaximus
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@ Sentient – In response to hoellenhund2- ” I married at 24, had a kid at 25, started my business at 25 with fuck all. Been married 25 years now. My wife worked for 3 months when we were first married. ” I have to agree with hoellen. 30 years ago, I was pretty much unconstrained in my ability to earn. It was just a matter of how hard/much I wanted to work, and the payoff was there. Today, with our economy in the shambles that it is, especially for 20-30 year olds, and the costs of living, a majority… Read more »

Blaximus
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Oh, and for the young folks that do drive new, luxury vehicles, that is only possible through leasing and the 6-7 year car loan. Pretty soon there will be 8-10 year car loans and standard 40 year mortgages.

Not Born This Morning
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@ Rollo – “The new, post-sexual revolution order is a model ostensibly based on ‘sexual freedom’, but what this really represents is a return to that naturalistic sexual order based on pre-agrarian, evolutionarily incentivized hypergamy.” This is not true. The naturalistic sexual social order of pre-agrarian human existence expressed BOTH genders natural sexuality without preference of one over the other or the perversion of both that we see today. Today’s laws and social conventions prevent men from returning to THEIR natural sexuality. We are not returning to the naturalistic sexual social order and there is no indication that we will… Read more »

stuffinbox
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Yah never been to cabo and don’t intend to go. Already have three young women taking advantage of me like Emily is taking advantage of her Dady.

Maybe her dad will get lucky and she got knocked up by foam canon boy,and she can cuck her bp fiance.Then dad will be off the hook for a feminist college education at least.

thwack
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SJF
@Thwack

Asdgamer will stand on his meritorious comments here or not. The past is not prologue. Spergs are people too. And this blog is about red pill awareness and game. Descriptive by Rollo and prescriptive by commenters when appropriate.
=======================================================

Would you take that same position if Asdgamer was on another blog with a bunch of pedophiles talking about raping 6 year old boys?

???

Oh Im sorry, did I break your concentration? You were saying something about: “Spergs are people too?”

Oh? You were finished?

Well then please allow me to retort;

whatever “Asdgamer’s genetic deficit, does he know WTF color HE is?

SJF
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@Roused You are doing the right thing, man. Take time to recharge your batteries. You have to provision yourself for the next ascent. So there is nothing wrong with pausing and reflecting what your core mission is. You’ve been through a lot. And despite what Sentient and HABD were saying before, it might perhaps be more true that men coming to the red pill and game tend to go too fast instead of too slow. Mostly because lack of mastery because the toolbox of Game is just too seductive as tactics that work right out of the box. (Just speculation… Read more »

Blaximus
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” Ohhhh yeah, I forgot you guys can go overseas to take advantage of poor young women in third world countries.”

Go on your damn break already.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/60697072.jpg

stuffinbox
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@Thwack
You got my vote.

I won’t hold for rape,or pedophilia and become homophobic when it involves children even w/ the lezies.

Also have a good friend that’s married to a white gal ,great zebra team,beautiful children. She used to yell at him and call him a n’,./;
in front of the guys and he would shuffle hat in hand,not any more.
That flashed when I read your post,graphic.

Blaximus
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SJF
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“Would you take that same position if Asdgamer was on another blog with a bunch of pedophiles talking about raping 6 year old boys? ???” Lol. Some of us don’t read other blogs about ASDgamer and what he says there. Some of us mostly dwell here. I care about what he posts with content here. About red pill awareness and game. Oh Im sorry, did I break your concentration? Lol. No I was actually composing some thoughts for my buddy Roused. Some useful information. That is, after I went and split a couple cords of wood at my farm. You… Read more »

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[…] Serendipitously commenter Not Born This Morning took me to task on this idea in the last comment thread: […]

scribblerg
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@Blax – Thanks man, great wisdom. I had a very peaceful, productive day. Getting fired up about my life but approaching like a mature, confident, skilled man would. You know the old joke about the young bull and the old bull together, on a ridge, looking down into a valley filled with cows grazing? The young sputters and proclaims, “I’m gonna run on down there and fuck one of those cows.” The older buffalo shakes his head and says, “You go right ahead, but I’m going to walk on down there and then fuck them all.” The thing about being… Read more »

Sentient
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@Blax

“I don’t realistically expect young men to do the things that I did at their age because the earning/jobs just isn’t there.”

Nor the balls… I made very little the first few years. If you want it you can do it. My first house was a one bedroom. You know how hard it is to dine a ONE bedroom house?

Sentient
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LOL

Thwack— Banned at CH because EVERY post he interjects race…

Like this here “whatever “Asdgamer’s genetic deficit, does he know WTF color HE is?”

Carry on… Just don’t be naive, attending…

Kaminsky
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“Ohhhh yeah, I forgot you guys can go overseas to take advantage of poor young women in third world countries.”

Yup. You would do well to remember it. And when did ‘poor’ start to mean ‘not obese’?

Blaximus
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@ Sentient I won’t argue with the ” wanting ” aspect. A guy does have to want to go after a reasonable wage/living standard. Maybe it’s just that I live in a part of the country where jobs are scarce for young high school/ college grads – the average guys without any connections – to get started. I think they need to band together and protest and vote their way out of the current state, but that’s just my opinion. Over the years I’ve watched a dozen or so guys hustling and scrambling and doing all the things that historically… Read more »

hoellenhund2
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Are total bullshit… at least for the false reasons you give… I married at 24, had a kid at 25, started my business at 25 with fuck all. Been married 25 years now. My wife worked for 3 months when we were first married. That’s it. Was it hard, yeah it was hard. But it was a choice to forgo the false promise of additional funds and certain “luxuries” that 2 income families grasp for, like bigger TeeVees and newer cars and vacations… essentially all stuff they are financing via mortgage debt etc. You do realize you aren’t actually providing… Read more »

having a bad day
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@thwack Blaximus’ responce is proof he knows thats not my function. Besides, whats a little good crab/bad crab among friends? i wasn’t trying to protect him, i was trying to help YOU…lol this shit is hard to see without some help once in a while (that’s true for me too)… and i just want to point out that while i understand what you are saying about being ‘crabby’ (lol) that comment is STILL the FI in play (the ‘jokiness’ is the FI pushing on you to minimize your perception of the damage it’s doing…) whatcountryyoufrom? redpillistan…central highlands…you know, where it’s… Read more »

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@Roy Hobbs “I wonder in what way our lives would have been different had even the basics of RP been taught by fathers to sons… Instead, growing-up in the default BP matrix- treading water out at sea, no land in sight and the FI dorsal fins circling closer. I am grateful to have to have found this path; both for me ~1/2way through life, but also for my boys, who are only beginning theirs.” Since you are new to the red pill, you might have seen mention of the book “The Way of Men” by Jack Donovan. It is a… Read more »

SJF
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Darnit Rollo. I just lost a comment to Roy Hobbs to WP moderation. A little help?

I thought three links was OK.

Andy
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Nice to see some lurkers coming out. SAHM thing: I see a lot of girls that wanted the nice big suburban McMansion, then they popped the kid out and realize that work means NOTHING to them anymore. But now they’re stuck working to pay the mortgage. It’s funny how surprising this is to them! Way more than you would think. They are completely baffled at how much they love the baby and how attached they are. Nobody told them. Thanks feminism. Some girls try the SAHM thing, but go back to work because it’s so hard. I have no respect… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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@Andy: “Some want to stay home, but the husband makes them work… Don’t get that one.”

Equa-mentalists!!

gb_hill
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@YaReally

That Valentino clip gives me nightmares. I have suffered through a situation like that. If you could have stepped into that tall guy’s body what would you have done? I know that the most non-reactive guy is the guy showing the most confidence but there must be some technique to get the girl away from the intruder. I guess old Tyler would do anti-Amoging stuff but that is so confrontational.

Roused
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@SJF Thanks for the splash of cold water. I really lose my focus on the mental point of origin and Frame when it comes to the push/pull with affection/attention and comfort tests. My problem is that I tend to limit my views and behavior through a black & white lens. I go from cuddles and hugs to asshole mode without enough sense of what rests in between or even giving a fuck. Totally agree with the mention of removing reinforcers, makes perfect sense now that I see more of the picture. Reminds me of how you handle little kids when… Read more »

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“Reminds me of how you handle little kids when they act up…” Yes, it is kind of anti-masculine but I’ll be out splitting wood with an electric splitter instead of a maul (efficiency) on the back of my truck tailgate and listening to Dr. Laura Schlessinger talk show on XM radio (intellectual stimulation) at my hunting cabin and she is explaining that dynamic. She is very red pill on observing Law #10 and how women should handle themselves in a relationship (they should treat their man kindly unless they want him to walk). And how to redirect the energies of… Read more »

Roy Hobbs
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@SJF

February 29th, 2016 at 6:44 am

Thank you sir! “The Way Of Men” is now on they way.

Culum Struan
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@gb_hill – check YaReally’s archive, he’s written lots about this (although not necessarily from the good looking guy’s perspective). But basically it doesn’t matter whether you’re the good looking one or not – it’s the same thing you need to do. You need to get the girl and the other guy reacting to you, instead of you reacting to them. They need to be in your frame – the guy who reacts less is higher value. Which is why old-school Tyler AMOG stuff like “I like your shirt” stuff works – it gets the good looking guy reacting to the… Read more »

gb_hill
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@Culum

I think that the tall guy did try to pick up the girl and carry her away but it didn’t work. Another thing I have read on PUA sites is to say something like “you two look cute together, you should get married” and then encourage the girl to go with the guy; reverse psychology stuff.

I understand the big picture; ie the need to be seen as non-needy and psychologically strong. But actual tech for that situation would have helped me a few times that I got out-gamed.

Jimmy B
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@Karen, show us what you really look like…but no doubt it won’t be a pretty picture…

Lucas
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The thing about supporters of hypergamy, that its supporters don’t get. Yes in the animal kingdom, the strongest and fittest males get to mate and pass on those genes. However as females don’t compete, they are passing in 50% DNA of non competitive genes. Secondly in human, especially out post feminism capitalism. The most attractive women do compete. They compete for not always the hottest or most physically strong and fit male but the male with most resources. This leads to women with good genes mating and marrying Donald Trump etc. In short capitalism leads to the best female genes… Read more »

Lucas
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I understand and sympathise with women from humble backgrounds marrying up, especially those from the developing world. The problem is we have western women who earn plenty of money and lots who have good paying careers and they still want to marry up. This is a problem.
Men with money have always been happy to marry down for better looking women but women would rather marry old farts with money…even if those women already are financially secure.
Women are basically greedy and can never have enough.

trackback

[…] The Pareto Principle […]

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[…] Hypergamy – marrying-up. 80% of women give their attention, hopes, affections, time, themselves to 20% of men. Another site with similar chart. (Social Scientist Dr. Baumeister of Florida State confirms) […]

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[…] just for sake of comparison here, it should be noted that if we go by the Pareto Principle and presume 80% of men are Betas and 20% are some shade of Alpha, we’ll see the dynamics for […]

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[…] arousal and strategic pluralism played in women’s sexual selection. Historically, only 20% of men bred with 80% of women. If we only look at this fact from Peterson’s perspective we’re left to conclude that […]

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[…] a majority of what the Red Pill has been observing and considering for a long time now. The Pareto Principle being the highlight in this last part here; 20% of men reproducing with 80% of women. I’ll also […]

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[…] seed and women are only too happy to enjoy him as well. He represents the 20th percentile in the 80/20 Pareto distribution of the sexual […]

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[…] their necessities into virtues. It also helps the men who fall on the 80% side of the Hypergamous Pareto curve to convince themselves and others that their sexual strategy – one that […]

omalone1
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History is something that never happened told by someone who wasn’t there. /

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