Red Pill Parenting – Part I

Red Pill Parenting

“If I’m not going to have children, she told herself, then I’m going to have lovers.” – Robin Rinaldi, The Wild Oats Project.

In last week’s essay I put an emphasis on men’s understanding women’s rudimentary doubt of their Hypergamous choices with regards to rearing children and the overall health of a family. There are a great many social factors in our westernized feminine-centric social structure that encourages women to delay both marriage and becoming a mother well past their prime fertility windows.

In the Myth of the Biological Clock I detailed the misconceptions women hold with have with regard to their own capacity of having children later in life:

Popular culture likes to teach women and, by association, unenlightened men that there is an innate biological clock inside each woman that slowly ticks down to a magical period where her maternal instincts at long last predispose her to wanting a child. Perhaps, not so surprisingly, this coincides perfectly with the Myth of Women’s Sexual Peak as well as conveniently being the age demographic just post or just prior to when most women hit the Wall.

[…]I wont argue that women actually possess maternal instincts, I will argue that their understanding of when they manifest has been deliberately distorted by a feminine-centric cultural influence. If women are “angry” about the revelation their inability or difficulty to conceive in their post-Wall biological conditions presents, their anger is misdirected. Rather than come down from the heady pedestal of ego-invested female empowerment psychology, they’ll blame men for not being suitable fathers, or lacking a will to “play-by-the rules” and satisfy the dictates of the feminine imperative by whiling away their time in porn and video game induced comas.

The “have it all” mentality popularized by feminism has led to some very bad social effects for women on whole. While a great deal of “having it all” is couched in messaging that appeals to enabling ’empowered®’ women get a similar deal from career life that men are supposedly enjoying, the subtext in this message is one of never settling for a less than Hypergamously optimal (better than, not equal) monogamous pairing with a man.

The “have it all” advertising is about life fulfillment from a distractingly equalist perspective; meaning an ostensibly equitable or better fulfillment than the Feminine Imperative would have women expect that men are getting from life. Women want to be men. Thus the push for female college enrollment that imbalances men’s enrollment, etc., but in so doing the life course women are directed to by the imperative also limits their Hypergamous optimization efforts by putting unrealistic expectations upon it.

As a result women either delay childbearing until ages that put them and any offspring at a health risk, or they simply forego marriage altogether and birth a child with the foreknowledge that the father (though maybe an adequate provisioner) will never be a contender to quell her doubts of his Hypergamous suitability.

If Momma Aint Happy, Aint Nobody Happy

I’m fleshing out this aspect of Hypergamy here because I believe, as with all thing female, that a broad understanding of Hypergamy is essential to a man’s life and has far reaching effects that go beyond just learning Game well enough to get the lay on a Saturday night when a woman is in her ovulatory peak phase.

A byproduct of the societal embrace of Open Hypergamy is the degree to which women are largely disposed to delaying commitment until what I call their Epiphany Phase and then transitioning into a need for security once their capacity to attract and arouse men decays and/or is compromised by intrasexual competition (a.k.a. The Wall). I detail this child-birth postponement process in Preventive Medicine where I outline women’s Party Years through their Epiphany Phase, however it’s important for men to understand that this phase is largely the result of women believing they should have a similar window as a man in which they can have both a career and find the “right guy” to partner in parenting with.

Equalism’s fundamental flaw is rooted in the belief that men and women are both rational and functional equals, separated only by social influence and selfish imperatives (uniquely attributed to men). The grave consequences women accept in this belief is that their sexual market value declines with age, both in terms of intrasexual competition and fertility.

As such, we entertain the bemoaning of generations of women frustrated that they were unable to consolidate on a Hypergamous ideal because they believed they had ample time to do so while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect of their Hypergamy in the years of their prime fertility window.

Furthermore, they believe that the men who are available and ready to fulfill the Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy simply don’t measure up to their socialized, overinflated, sense of Hypergamous entitlement (and particularly in comparison to the men who made them Alpha Widows in their Party Years).

So distressing is this prospect, and so keenly aware of it are women that they are beginning to mandate failsafe measures in anticipation of not being able to optimize Hypergamy – such as preemptive egg freezing and legislating that men pay for their infertility while married in alimony settlements.

It’s come to the point where the ages of 29-31 are no longer being considered a crisis point for women with regard to child bearing. With the cultural popularization of the false hope in frozen ovum extending a woman’s birthing timeframe, now, even 35-38 years old seems to magically grant women some bonus years in which to secure a man for parental investment. The question is no longer one of a woman making herself suitable for a man’s parental investment (by his late 30’s no less) – her default suitability is inherent in her femaleness according to the Feminine Imperative – but rather, she believes, a magical-thinking proposition of waiting out the Hypergamously right father for her children.

Parental Precautions

I’m stressing these points here before I move on to Red Pill parenting ideology so men who are, or want to become fathers, husbands, LTR boyfriends, understand the import that Hypergamy plays in any family arrangement they hope to create.

Just to head off all the MGTOWs reading first; don’t get married. Under contemporary western circumstances there is no advantage for men in a state of marriage and 100% advantage for women. Unfortunately, as things are structured, marriage will always be a cost-to-benefit losing proposition while women insist on making marriage a legalistic contract of male-only liabilities.

That said, also remember that an entire world steeped in feminine-primary social imperatives is arrayed against your efforts in being a positively masculine father to your kids. Those anti-father efforts start with women’s own fem-centric conditioning that leads them to both manically push for Hypergamous optimization personally and societally, but yet they will delay that optimization until all opportunities for her have been exhausted. If you are considering marriage and starting a family with a woman between the ages of 27 and 31, statistically this is the situation and mentality that woman is likely experiencing.

I’m presenting these things to you as a father or potential father, because it’s important for you to discern what women have been conditioned to believe and expect from men and for themselves. In the coming weeks I will post an essay on the complementarity both sexes have evolved for to make our species what it is today; and that conventional complementarity is something idealistic equalism would distort. However, for now it’s important to realize that women have been thrust into this zero-hour, jump-at-the-last-second, cash out of the sexual marketplace schedule of mating that their very biology rebels against.

Single Moms and “Good” Fathers

It’s also important for men to understand that, while there is a constant ‘Man Up’ beratement of fathers for their lack of willing involvement in a child’s life, men are simultaneously presented with the female ’empowerment’ meme. That meme proposes these fathers’ parental involvement is effectively superfluous to that child’s maturation because Strong Independent Women® can reportedly fulfill a fathers’ role equally as well as any man (the equalist narrative).

For all the public awareness campaigns extolling fathers to be fathers, the message is always one of being “better” fathers and placing them into a default position of being less than ‘good’ by virtue of their maleness. In fact a ‘good’ father is a rarely appreciated commodity because that ‘good’ quality is always tied to a man’s never ending and ever shifting burden of performance.

On the other side, the single mother empowerment meme is endemic. However it’s important to use our Red Pill Lens with this meme because the message is one that forgives women of their inability to make themselves appropriate prospects for men’s parental investment. At the same time this meme also foist the blame for men’s unwillingness to parentally invest squarely on men’s presumed responsibility to women optimizing their Hypergamy to their satisfaction:

I’m Stupid Picky.

In my 15 or so years of dating, I’ve been around. I don’t mean that to sound skanky, but … it’s not like I haven’t given love a chance. The problem? Out of all the men I’ve ever dated, there has only been one or two that I felt a genuine connection with. It is a rare thing indeed for me to meet someone I feel like I could picture spending forever with. Sadly, I can’t even remember the last time I met a man who gave me butterflies. It’s definitely been years.

I Want the Fairytale.

There are very few relationships I’ve witnessed in my life that I would actually want for myself. Which begs the question, what do I want? Well, I want a man who is great with kids and totally open to adopting a houseful with me. I want a man who is smart and driven, sexy and hilarious. One who gets me, and who challenges me, and who makes me weak in the knees. Basically … I want everything. And I’m not sure the image I have in my head of what love should be is something that actually exists in real life.

My Daughter Will Always Be Priority Number One.

If you think my expectations of what I want for me are implausible, we probably shouldn’t even discuss my expectations of what I want for the man who steps into that paternal role for my daughter. Truthfully, as much as I want that father figure for her, I am also absolutely terrified of choosing wrong, of messing up our dynamic by choosing a man who isn’t worthy of being her father.

This article’s entire checklist reads like a manifesto for the Strong Independent® single mother with no consideration given to how men, potential fathers or husbands might interpret it. As expected, Campbell perpetuates the ‘put your kid first’ religion of motherhood here, but after reading through her single-mom rationalizations, and then combined with men’s presumptive servitude to the beneficiaries of the Feminine Imperative, it’s easy to see why most, if not all men, might be hesitant to sign up for their expected duty.

Preparations

My point here isn’t to dissuade men from wanting to be fathers, but rather that they enter into being a parent with their eyes open to how Hypergamy, and a cultural imperative that’s built around it, influences women’s life choices today. I mentioned earlier in this essay about women between the ages of 27 and 31 experiencing the first harsh realities of the consequences their choices have predisposed them to. Understand, as a man, your desire, your potential, for parental investment puts you into a position of being very sexually selective. So much in fact that the Feminine Imperative has long-held social conventions to pre-established with the purpose of convincing men they are not only obligated to fulfilling women’s Hypergamous strategy, but should feel lucky to do so.

The truth is that it is women who are at their most necessitous of men during this phase of their lives – thus placing men with the means and desire to become a parent into a prime selector’s position. Feminine social conditioning has done all it can to predispose Beta men to wait out and forgive women their short-term Alpha Fucks indiscretions during their Party Years, but as Red Pill awareness becomes unignorable the pressures of maintaining the image of being the prime selector will wear on women.

That said, I’ve had many men ask me how best to go about becoming a Red Pill parent. I’ve had many men express that the only advantage to marriage is in creating a healthy, hopefully complementary, environment in which to raise children. However, I’m not sure even women would concur with this assessment in the face of a social narrative that tells them they can raise a child as well as any father can. Yet, by the definition of the Feminine Imperative, a ‘good’ father is one who will sublimate his masculinity and assume a feminine, subservient gender role, thus making his superfluous whether he’s available or not.

In the last essay I emphasized establishing a strong, dominant, yet positive masculine Frame. This is the vital starting point for any long term relationship a man might hope to raise children in. The next imperative a man must confront is the Herculean obstacles he faces in a western culture that devalues him as a father, but obligates him to be an involved ‘good’ father who can only ever qualify himself to the mother of his children (who should place them above his interests) and qualify himself to a society that’s been conditioned to hold him to her standards.

Finally, a potential father needs to understand the circumstance in which women’s never ending quest to satisfy their Hypergamous doubt places them in at various phases of their maturity. For Red Pill men, a lot gets made of ‘vetting’ women for personal attributes and character to make them contenders for being the mother of their children. While this is important, I can’t stress enough how important it is to account for the Hypergamous choices women make prior to his consideration, as well as the consequences she should be held accountable for, yet attempts to avoid by his obligated graces.

In Part II I will expand on what to expect when raising sons and daughters from a Red Pill perspective.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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keyser Soze
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“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men ((((ANDY)))exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

theasdgamer
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Quality is a matter of degree. “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”

fleezer
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“If she fucked 30 losers” if she fucked 30 then she’s way too old. 30 losers? then your standards are way too low. there are young ones turning legal every day. why bother with the used up old ones? oh yeah, because even the most seasoned puas shit their pants at cold approaching 17 year olds without the help of alcohol and the bar/club environment. why settle for some other dudes’ leftovers when you can pick them fresh? oh yeah, because it’s way fucking harder. there are few things that feel better than rising to a challenge. if you’re not… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Mrs. Gamer was corralled by her father until she moved out of her house after finishing college. No bf’s. N = 0 before we married. Maybe 0.1 if you consider kissing on the lips to cause a little risk. Mrs. Gamer also used to chase her older brother out of her family’s house. Kate in “Taming of the Shrew” fits Mrs. Gamer very accurately. Quality in some ways, not in others. The shrewishness is tameable and trainable (out). Sluttishness not so much. Our marriage has been sweet lo these last three months. I keep getting loyalty tests from Mrs. Gamer… Read more »

keyser Soze
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“I just don’t see how sexual history will change the quality of the woman.”

Yes this was posted in The Rational Male/the manosphere.
A DATE WITCH WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.

teddj4g
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To me saying a woman’s past sexual history means nothing smacks of “sex positive” thinking from the FI. Of course women don’t want to be judged on their past “mistakes”, but that isn’t a mans problem to solve.

BigAl
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I have found a woman with wife potential. Ive found that my extensive vetting has actually been a DHV and form of dread. Even pretty open, direct, and formal vetting (i.e. talking about parenting style, the failure of divorce, gender differences/expectations) has proven to make her qualify to me. Its an interesting balance when your woman approaches unicorn status while still being aware of AWALT. Im testing the waters thoroughly and evaluating everything through an RP lens. How do men/fathers quell the drive and desire for new mating opportunities even with an amazing woman? Seems like tough human nature to… Read more »

keyser Soze
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@Andy,
Go post that at Chateau Heartiste.

Andy
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Either way the data you hoped to glean is corrupted. Far better to be subtle and covert about it. Yeah, but what exactly are you trying to find out? You want a number? I feel like you can tell if you’re “the guy.” I feel like you’re taking my side with that slut paradox. Say you find the (hypothetical) snow white, and you ass fuck her and cum on her face on day one. Is she no longer snow white? I mean say she worships the ground you walk on for months. Why does her sexual history matter other than… Read more »

Andy
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For the record. My ideal would probably be a 23yr old 8 that grew up middle class, fucked around for a few years and was intensely obsessed with me.

teddj4g
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“Say you find the (hypothetical) snow white, and you ass fuck her and cum on her face on day one. Is she no longer snow white?”

First of all, she was never snow white. Second, if you filled her ass and came on her face day 1, are you gonna buy it when she tells you she “usually doesn’t do this kind of thing” while you bust your nut?

keyser Soze
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Rollo
“but I’m less concerned with a woman’s N-count than I am about the strength of the impression left by the most impressive Alpha she’s ever been with.”

Rollo, what is the cock carousel ?
Is it okay when a woman tells me she fucked 45 guy but only one of them was “special”?

lh
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I don’t see Andy and Rollo far apart? Different emphasis maybe.

fleezer
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“How do men/fathers quell the drive and desire for new mating opportunities even with an amazing woman?” We don’t. This is part of what makes us men. It doesn’t make us “bad” people. Our sexual strategies take precedence. Wife plus extra on the side. The alternative is her default strategy becoming primary and no one wants that, especially her. I am always on the lookout for a younger, hotter, better version of my wife. Haven’t found one yet, which is why I will go home and fuck her and eat the delicious hot food she makes for me. The thing… Read more »

Andy
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““I just don’t see how sexual history will change the quality of the woman.”
Yes this was posted in The Rational Male/the manosphere.
A DATE WITCH WILL LIVE IN INFAMY.”

haha. Obviously some chick that’s banging 3 guys a week isn’t appealing. From what I remember about college – the girls doing that had other obvious character flaws to go along with the slutiness.

Forge the Sky
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Re: this little scuffup: Andy’s doing the Corey Worthington thing, basically. He’s demonstrating the mindset needed for success. The thing is, coming down from your cloud and making a rational assessment of your circumstance is also crucial to success. The key is compartmentalization. You need to be able to recognize when to apply sober, realistic reasoning to a circumstance – is this investment a good bet? – and then go back to ZFG. Sometimes I ask girls I know what it’s like knowing a Greek god made flesh, with startling congruency. But then I don’t try to throw lightning bolts.… Read more »

keyser Soze
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Rollo, “If she’s been with a dozen guys and they were all Beta losers, or went Beta after the fact, and I’m the apex Alpha of her sexual experience, then I’m less concerned with N-count.”

Let’s say, I’m the apex Alpha of two women I’m fucking, the first woman comes with N 8 , the second woman comes with N27. Who do you think I should be picking for a long term relationship?

Yhufir
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@KFG

I did say “culture” – and didn’t reference genetic heritage as the defining factor for change. The problem, however, is that there is a correlation. As we know from domestication of animals, breeding for certain traits weeds out certain genes. And if you think your genes don’t contribute to how you think, you’re gravely mistaken.

CaveClown
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Keyser,

The one with the biggest tits.

Sun Wukong
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@Andy haha. Obviously some chick that’s banging 3 guys a week isn’t appealing. From what I remember about college – the girls doing that had other obvious character flaws to go along with the slutiness. Yes, and that’s what we’re talking about. N count is just one piece of the puzzle that might tip you off to other issues. Glean as much information from her as possible while giving away as little on yourself as possible. It’s not so much the N count itself as what it will tell you about her potential for your long term benefit. That’s why… Read more »

IAS
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@Asdgamer: your case is eerily similar to mine. Uncanny!
Is there any way to send PMs via WordPress?

Anonymous Reader
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I’m saying that internally, you can put the kids first, but the outside observer would never be able to tell.

Still missing the point. There is a difference between “put the kids first” and “put family first”. I’ve seen it in real life. A man who puts the kids first thinks and acts differently from a man who puts family first. Family is a unit. “The kids” are some number of individuals.

Thought patterns lead to actions. The thought pattern of “kids come first” leads to action patterns that in time will produce bad results.

cheupez
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My take on the N count? It is a non issue. Having been on the RM for sometime now, I think I have been forced to come to that conclusion. For those of us who are married; too late. [Those men who are not married and still want to get married, please reconsider.] For those of us who want to get married and want to know the N count; good luck with that. Besides she could still divorce you later and get the N count she did not have. For those of us that are spinning plates; fuck the N… Read more »

benfromtexas
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I’d pick the one demonstrating the best homemaker skills.

ianironwood
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I think a lot of men here are mistaking the needs and reasoning of the short term Single RP man with what the experience of the serious Married RP man demonstrates is important. Is Ncount important? Yes, yes it is. Hence the male attraction to youth and inexperience. Once she her count is greater than her age, she’s likely jaded. For us, the Single us, that’s golden. Learn Game, get pussy, that part is easy. But when a man is considering pledging his commitment to a particular woman, the wise RP man will take as much consideration of the matter… Read more »

redlight
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“the first woman comes with N 8 , the second woman comes with N27. Who do you think I should be picking for a long term relationship?” If you are picking the mother of your kids, N count is just one of many criteria. Remember women and their checklists for guys (must be honest, rich, smart, kind, caring, strong …)? Well you got to form a checklist for the mother of your children. For example: Can’t smoke Can’t be a druggie Must be able to not drink for years Must be able to diet and eat healthy Must be able… Read more »

BigAl
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Fleezer, I will always inspire some dread and never make her my top priority. I just wonder how those who remain faithful do marriage without wanting to chase other girls. That sacrifice is the paradox that I grapple with. (she really is great and checks a lot of boxes for me, good mother/wife material). I guess you just choose what is best for you and move on! Its a tough call, just dont think I could make that commitment then still sleep at night getting side action.

Anonymous Reader
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Andy, the issue is short term thinking vs. longer term thinking. An impulsive woman, a woman driven by a need for her dopamine fix, is more likely to frivorce rape a man. The topic is “red pill parenting”, and it takes a minimum of 18 years to get that done. An impulsive woman can do a great deal of damage in 18 years, right? You remind me of a man I know who for a while was an F-16 active duty fighter pilot. Extremely confident man. Except that he apparently totally misread his woman, and he’s been divorced for several… Read more »

keyser Soze
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“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.” Sheryl Sandberg.… Read more »

teddj4g
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Ian – “In most cases you can alleviate both your innate boredom with the same vagina and her fantasies about fresh dick by the creative application of novelty.” This exactly. If I start feeling bored, or if I get the impression the wife is getting bored, I change it up. Examples: Mom was staying the weekend not long after we got married, and we crept out to the garage to have sex in the back seat of the car. Now we weren’t worried mom would hear. I’m a grown ass married man and not concerned that my mother knows I… Read more »

theasdgamer
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Post on my blog and I’ll reply to your email address.

kfg
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“And if you think your genes don’t contribute to how you think, you’re gravely mistaken.”

I’ve given the lecture, and I’m not entirely sure that parasites aren’t overriding my genetic tendencies to make me think in their interests.

However, if you’re just dropping seed around and moving on, it is the mother who determines the culture of the child. If you think nurture doesn’t matter you are gravely mistaken.

Most of the red pill men here on TRM got here as victims of nurture and very few young men raised Muslim meet Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Anonymous Reader
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keyser soze, I don’t hate Sheryl Sandberg, I think it’s great she put open hypergamy right out there where all men can see it. Although plenty of men don’t want to see it. That said, I despise Sandberg’s open hypergamy not for the N count per se, but for the total assumption of AF-BB and soon AF-Beta Cux, because both view men as disposable objects. It’s a rich irony that the same women who get all riled up over the word “plates” (see Jezebel on the North Carolina PUA’s, the comments are hilarious) turn right around and view men as… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@cheupez We as men really need to tone down the arrogance, just a bit. Fuck that. Men these days need more arrogance and less tolerance. That’s what’s let things get as bad as they have. Look, the role sexually is for men to lek and women to select. Successful lekking means a higher N. Successful selection means a lower N. This is the essential difference between male and female sexual strategies. Just as I think women should have reasonable expectations but be discerning within them, men shouldn’t just forgive all transgressions without a second thought if we’re talking about commitment.… Read more »

Blaximus
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Oh yeah!!!…. good shit in here once again. I love this fucking place!! @Andy – My man, my maaaannnnn. I feel you. I really do. I understand your points. Let me interject for a minute… There is no Snow White. Never was. What degree of sexual experience a man is willing to accept in his woman of choice is a highly personal thing. As with many things in life, there is an ” ideal “. And with many things in life the ” ideal ” is hard as fuck to obtain…If not, it would no longer qualify as ” ideal… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Not considering N on a potential long term partner is like not considering missed payments and repossessions when issuing a loan. Yeah, this time might be different, but in all likelihood it won’t and the lender will get burned.

Anonymous Reader
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Men these days need more arrogance and less tolerance. That’s what’s let things get as bad as they have.

+1

Forge the Sky
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@Agent P “I know that my wife could, through the power of law, destroy our marriage in a heart beat but she also has come to learn it would not mean that much to me. She knows that I view living alone, like a monk as a very viable if not favourable option. She knows I could walk on my family, my life, my investments and everything and simply go walkabout and I’d actually be pretty happy with that. ” Excellent. I don’t want to go all Buddha on your ass, but attachment to anything except your own self, as… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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I’ll modify what I said re: divorce law above.

In cases where the man is forced to keep on making payments for a long period, this can keep him enslaved to a degree of financial performance. It can be a cage. And a healthy man hates no other thing with such ardor.

teddj4g
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““I know that my wife could, through the power of law, destroy our marriage in a heart beat but she also has come to learn it would not mean that much to me.” When I’ve said in the past you must be willing to walk away, this is exactly what I mean. You must be willing to concede to yourself up front that it may all go to hell, AND be comfortable enough with that outcome to not give a shit. Couple that with the effort it takes and the likelihood of failure, I don’t blame any man that doesn’t… Read more »

ianironwood
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Another hypothetical: would you marry a porn star? Serious question. I’m not talking your run-of-the-mill skank, here, I’m talking a mid-range to high-end star, discovered young, no kids, love her work, and works for only one or two companies. She’s stayed away from coke and escorting and has saved and invested her money wisely. Now, in those cases a porn star’s actual N-count can be comparatively low, considering her profession. When you work with the same 3-4 guys all the time, your N doesn’t go up. I’ve met famous stars whose actual N was lower than most college junior sorority… Read more »

kfg
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“Men these days need more arrogance and less tolerance. That’s what’s let things get as bad as they have.”

+2

The MI counter to the FI is, at it’s core, really quite simple: men telling women “no,” and meaning it.

ianironwood
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@kfg And when you run into resistance to this, remind the budding SJW in question that when feminism liberated women from cultural expectations of being a wife and mother, it liberated men from the cultural expectation of having to give a shit about their problems. They are no longer ours to solve.

lh
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“Pat Tillman” In any case, I would continue dating her – for the challenge. “Dead” is worse than “gone” though. But in her case I’d guess everyone kept telling her what a wonderful man that must have been and she should feel so lucky and so on. Which is usually a boyfriend-destroyer? But that guy apparently only ever fucked his “high school sweetheart” and sacrificed himself for “his country” and the elite interests driving it. That is not Alpha. And if you think I’m arrogant: I had a very good LTR-affair with the wife of a former athletics vize-worldchampion who’s… Read more »

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Blaximus
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@ianironwood, Great stuff. Would I marry a pornstar? Odds are against it for reasons unrelated to ” sex ” per se. I’d have to be able to gauge where she is emotionally and mentally considering her chosen profession. I think it’s very difficult to get any woman to be 100% into you 100% of the time, because of the nature of how their minds work. They have to be ” manipulated ” by triggering various emotional queues. If a man’s personality is such that he triggers her in the proper way, then there is a possibility for a (more )… Read more »

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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@Rollo, Sorry Mr, I’m not trying to be a pain in the…but, When women go on the CC ride, they pursue the tingle alphas, not the boring betas, so, how many alphas in a woman’s N count? (women have 20 idea of what an alpha is ,it changes by every piss she takes). Sheryl, is advocating to go fuck as many alphas as you can (that is quantity). That would leave a lot of women with a pure 24k alpha N count. So, how can guys compete with a woman who had, not just, 1,2,3,alphas, she had 17 alphas. N… Read more »

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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Even a lot of Virgins are Alpha widows ,and competing with their imaginatory alpha takes a lot of energy.
Add 20 alpha dicks on top of that!

DO NOT EVER GET MARRIED.

Jsmith
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Jsmith
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@Andy I think it’s contradictory where a guy whose wifing up a woman who “fucked 30 men” could be “the fucking man”. Any high value man would never wife a woman who slept with 30 guys. He has much better options. On a biological basis she’s messed up in the head for sure, it doesn’t have to be full blown BPD. I know “30” is probably just hyperbole, but even 10 is way too many. Sleeping with that many guys shows poor impulse control, lack of judgement, and how fickle of a person she is. She’s unfit to be a… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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If I found myself single tomorrow I wouldn’t date Pat Tillmans ex. I’d be going after the 20 somethings. If I was 45 and looking for a wife, I’d probably date her but obviously ride it out past the infatuation phase and see how it was going. If it was still going well I’d tell her that I was the guy that killed him. Lol, sorry couldn’t resist.

As far as a porn star. Um, no.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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Marry a porn star? Hell no. Fuck her if she was actually hot in person then tell the guys about it later? Hell yeah. @Forge I used to think I’d like tomboys. Until I tried fucking one. Could hardly do it half the time, even though I liked her. It took a while to learn how much I was turned on by unabashed, submissive femininity. It was a lesson only a dynamic, chaotic, sublime world could have taught me. So much this. Tom boys were great when I was in elementary and middle school, and were even kind of cool… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Jsmith

I know “30” is probably just hyperbole

It is. It’s giving them credit for having way too much self control.

A Definite Beta Guy
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A Definite Beta Guy
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I think it’s contradictory where a guy whose wifing up a woman who “fucked 30 men” could be “the fucking man”.
Any high value man would never wife a woman who slept with 30 guys.

Pretty much. The recommendation “be the fucking man” is not reachable to the vast majority of men, even the vast majority of RP men, without pretty impressive amounts of work.

The Red Pill gives me a solid intellectual framework to guide my marriage, but it did not make me Neo.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@ianironwood

And when you run into resistance to this, remind the budding SJW in question that when feminism liberated women from cultural expectations of being a wife and mother, it liberated men from the cultural expectation of having to give a shit about their problems. They are no longer ours to solve.

Hell yeah. When you decide to violate a social contract that has served us well for millennia, don’t be surprised and angry when the other side no longer upholds their end of the broken deal.

A Definite Beta Guy
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A Definite Beta Guy
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Note, that’s not to suggest men cannot improve, but your average Delta or Beta boy should not set himself up for an uphill fight against the sheer number of sex partners the average woman can accumulate.

Pointless fight. Only winning move is not to play.

SJF
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SJF
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Fantastic and dynamic discussion. I love the original post by Rollo. Hearing from Ian Ironwood is a treat. Great stuff from all you guys–Blaximus, Anonymous Reader, Forge the Sky, Sun and Teddj. I want to expound on something brought up by BigAl and further answered well by Fleezer. I am pretty conventional, as you guys know. I’m at peace with the red pill and Old Married Guy game. I’m a strong believer in that fact that red pill awareness and game is pretty fungible across the spectrum of intersexual relationships by men. Single man game, ONS”s, STR’s, LTR’s and LTR’s… Read more »

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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N count chart for women by age :!
At 20 yo, fucked 2 men = 6k diamond ring.
At 20 yo to 30 yo ,fucked 4 men = 3k diamond ring.
At 30 yo to 40 yo, fucked 25 men= she buys the ring.
At 40 yo to 50 yo,fucked 40 men = she buys you the ring and the house.

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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SJF, Holy Shit. Call 911, my mind…it’s blown ” When a man sees a beautiful woman it is natural for him to feel energy in his body, which he usually interprets as sexual desire. Rather than dispersing this energy in mental fantasy, a man should learn to circulate his heightened energy. He should breathe fully, circulating the energy fully throughout his body. He should treat his heightened energy as a gift which could heal and rejuvenate his body, and, through his service, heal the world. Through these means, his desire is converted into fullness of heart. His lust is converted… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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Ok, then Blaximus. While you’re at it I’ll make you feel even less lecherous about seeing all the young chicks. Young Women Offer You a Special Energy “In general, youth in a woman bespeaks radiant, unobstructed, and re- freshing feminine energy. A young woman tends to be less compromised by masculine layers of functional protection built up over years of need. Traditionally, young women were understood to offer a man a particu- larly rejuvenative quality of energy. Older women may maintain, or even increase, the freshness and radiance of their energy, but it is rare. Imagine you are driving your… Read more »

Blaximus
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Blaximus
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SJF,

I’m printing out the pdf version. How did this escape me?

Good stuff. I think I ” got it ” before I got it.

Luxocrat
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Luxocrat
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@Haitian I understand where you’re coming from. My ex-wife is from one of those countries you mentioned but raised in New York. Even her own mother, by the time we began dating when we were 20, I recall saying “You’ve been in this country too long.” And by that she meant the attitude, the reckless mouth which didn’t fully evolve until she began her last employ at a major cable network and her boss retired: everyone in managment wanted her gone. That same year is when I finally walked out because I really didn’t want to end up in jail… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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Beautiful post!!! I can totally relate to this: I have 4 older sisters, 2 of the eldest got married in their 40s, as a result of delaying for the right guy, (they are very ‘saved’ btw – consummate christian good women), they suffered through their first pregnancies – they both had miscarriages, one had 2 before finally being able to bear 1 child each. One of them adopted a son. So yeah, my sisters, are not too much into feminism, they are from the old school… But yes, when you read such shit as to be found on that babble.com… Read more »

kobayashii1681
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“Understand, as a man, your desire, your potential, for parental investment puts you into a position of being very sexually selective. So much in fact that the Feminine Imperative has long-held social conventions to pre-established with the purpose of convincing men they are not only obligated to fulfilling women’s Hypergamous strategy, but should feel lucky to do so.”

Very important red pill truth right here!

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@SJF Great stuff, man. On point. I actually learned something similar from Elliott Hulse; he applied it in a similar way, advising you to use the enlivening effects attractive women have on you as a sort of healthy, cheerful burst of energy, in those cases where sexual interaction isn’t possible or desirable. He also applied it to sex itself- keeping your breath and arousal active in your whole body, rather than binding it up in fantasies or in spastic, clenching sorts of pelvic motions. Open up, breath; the movements come from the entire spine. Thrusting with the hips is like… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Forge

It’s a lost art.

Something is “lost” accidentally. The destruction of feminine appeal has been a willful action taken with malice. Far worse than just being lost, it has been murdered. I suppose Dave Chapelle was right:

“Chivalry is dead… and women killed it.”

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu6UY5It9lE

North by northwest, the seduction scene on the train, watch how great it was.
Cary Grant and Eva Marie Saint.

Thelien
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Thelien
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lh, “US marriage and divorce laws came up a few times now. I’m getting the impression they are especially fucked up compared to other countries.” From what I hear, they are! I just read a diaspora business guide that includes info on Canadian family and labor law. The wife doesn’t take the house in divorce – it’s divided in half, and if in case of common law partnership it wholly belongs to who owned it before. Child support in Ontario is CAD 462 a month for an only child (the cost of about 4 cart loads of cheap food from… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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LTR and marriage is a minefield. More like try-your-best-hope-for-the-best situation. It is with sadness that I have to say this. I think men are still looking for the quality woman. I have to concur with the fact that the guys looking to get a LTR girl or looking to get married are looking for low N count women. I also get the low N count, high “successful” marriage rate data. “Success” means married for longer, less divorce rate…(?tingles aside?) The reality however in this situation is that you will probably wife up an N10 who you think is an N1… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@SJF Our culture reduces this youthful energy to a sexual thing, whereas it is actually a whole body transmission of energy, affecting the heart as much as or more than the genitals. In other cultures, young women were honored for their gifts of spiritual rejuvenation, tending to holy sites and performing sacred arts, not just ogled for sexual titillation. First date with my ex ended with her starting to get in to her car, turning around with a huge grin, bounding my way, leaping up, throwing her arms around my neck hanging from it, and kissing me. Never have I… Read more »

cheupez
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cheupez
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Besides, there is something passionate/animalistic about a slut that is almost redeeming (for her). For me, slut sex has usually been the most exciting. I hate cold (if sanitary) pussy.

amusedmastery
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amusedmastery
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What is going on in that picture??

bo jangles
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bo jangles
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Rollo remember your audience, sometimes you start to sound like an ivory tower academic, rather than a buddy giving sage advice. For example it I greatly disliked when you started using the term female solipism(what percentage of your readers, even of college students have heard or used that word?)–so much simpler, direct and clear to call it female or feminine narcissism. “As such, we entertain the bemoaning of generations of women frustrated that they were unable to consolidate on a Hypergamous ideal because they believed they had ample time to do so while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect of their… Read more »

seamanstain05
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@ ian ironwood You wrote: “When a woman starts to hint about a permanent commitment, the wise RP man will calmly explain to her, in as discouraging a manner as possible, what impossibly high standards he has for her. She will either get pissed (meaning she’s not as into you as you think) or she’ll fall in line and try to compete for the prize. The burden must rest on her. She has to understand that the qualification exam is extensive, but that prize is worth it. If she isn’t willing to cooperate, it means her hamster is hiding something… Read more »

Roused
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Roused
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So much good stuff! Still consuming all this with a voracious appetite. A few notable quotes and thoughts: @Rollo “I only know what’s worked for me and for the men who’ve related their gratitude for my presenting TRP to them. I don’t write prescriptions; I want men to write their own. I’m not interested in creating better men; I’m interested in men recreating themselves as better men.” That is why I find Rollo to come off as a righteous dude, not a prophet or ego driven ass trying to make a buck off this site, which he could easily. I… Read more »

IAS
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IAS
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@Bojangles : I vehemently disagree. I think Rollo’s writing style is fundamentally Red Pill.

One unanimous advice in the community is “go lift” (improve your body). But the underlying principle is to strive to be better. To me, Rollo’s writing is “go lift” for the mind in more than one way.

There are other authors who are more accessible, but I think it would be a disservice for Rollo to “dumb down” the message.
I would not translate Solipsism to narcissism, maybe to egocentrism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

Lev
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Lev
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@Andy

Here is an excellent article about asking your GF’s past and about that “oh, you’re so insecure” nonsense:

http://www.returnofkings.com/46922/how-to-question-a-womans-past-part-one

kfg
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kfg
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“What red flags are you referring to specifically?” The indignation itself is a red flag. “Are you saying that any woman who expresses disappointment or frustration at you balking to commit to her has an entitlement mentality and should be NEXTed pronto?” There ya go. You can try pulling back and see how she reacts. If she ups her game going after the prize, well and good, keep her around as long as she keeps that up, but there’s a pretty damn good chance that she will next you, because she wasn’t into you, she was into the idea of… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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“I would not translate Solipsism to narcissism . . .”

Solipsism is living entirely within your own head. Narcissism is living entirely in other people’s heads.

Remember, Narcissus didn’t fall in love with himself, he fell in love with his reflection.

Desdinova Superstar
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There’s so many things to comment on. First of all, today’s society has made marriage an outdated and archaic ceremony. Currently, the only purpose of having a legal contract binding two people together is to help people make money when the divorce comes. Marriage in it’s rawest form has nothing to do with raising children. Second, selecting a woman for procreation in today’s society is extremely difficult. Women are highly corrupted by the time they reach their prime maturity between the ages of 23 and 27. They’ve likely already had their encounter with the Alpha male who’s made his permanent… Read more »

Andy
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Andy
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@Blaximus “There is no Snow White. Never was.” I get this. I’m just saying it hypothetically. You won’t be able to fuck that alpha memory loose no matter how you try. It’s EMOTIONAL for them, and they treasure their emotional memories. That’s true. But if it’s that big of a deal she’ll definitely run her mouth about it. @Lev Good article. My problem with it is that even if a “good girl” told me how virtuous she was I wouldn’t believe it. I just don’t see how any good looking girl makes it out of college with an N count… Read more »

BigAl
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BigAl
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Thanks Rollo, Ian, and SJF In regards to SJF’s post, I think channeling that masculine energy and arousal does wonders. When I see another attractive woman, she is merely a stimuli to my mental point of origin. I dont let it shake me to the core and make me too horny to think straight. My reaction now becomes directed towards the relationship I built with my LTR. It makes me stop and appreciate her femininity and beauty even more. When you already have it, more just isnt as appealing. I spun plates like crazy and decided she was a plate… Read more »

Chump No More
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@seamanstain05

Ian has written extensively on the topic of LTR/Wife selection. Even if you’re content in plate spinning, his blog posts are still well worth the read.

Google “red pill room wife test” and you will get links to most, if not all, of them.

Sun Wukong
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@Andy

That’s true. But if it’s that big of a deal she’ll definitely run her mouth about it.

Not if she’s trying to lock down her Beta Bux. How many guys with a chick like that never find the video tape? Probably a lot, by my guess.

Chump No More
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Chump No More
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SJF,

I read ‘The Way of the Superior Man’ early on in my red pill awakening, and as @Blaximus stated, it’s mind-blowing stuff and very much a part of my RP ‘required reading’ list.

Due to your references and postings, I’m reading it again… it’s even better the second time through.

Thanks and keep it up!

fleezer
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fleezer
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Interesting stuff from SJF/deida “Sorry if I wasted your time.” No man should ever apologize for posting anything here. even if totally OT it could be the thing that leads one of us on a tangent that leads to a journey that leads to an amazing change. the superior man stuff is thought provoking but borders on dangerous. acknowledging the feminine is one thing, but giving it credit for the meaning of our lives is something else. approaching mega pedestal territory. i have romantic tendencies and indulge myself from time to time – looking at my wife and thinking about… Read more »

lh
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lh
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Oh, thanks for the recent comments widget!

SJF
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SJF
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Great comments Fleezer. I agree implicitly. Your differences are in mindset not principle. You are living your self actualized sexual life well. You do well to caution masculine men on not leaning in too much to the feminine I would re-iterate that when I read The Way of the Superior Man 10 years or more ago I could not agree with or have the fortitude to understand and practice its tenets. It takes a man in full to really “just get it”. When you have personal assets and are happy with your choices in an inter-sexual relationship it makes it… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Oh, thanks for the recent comments widget!

Seconded, I wasn’t one of the ones asking for it but it’s actually super helpful.

Roused
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Thanks @Rollo, I missed the index of acronyms as I too quickly scanned over your Blogroll. I usually read the site via mobile so it’s easy to miss things on that medium.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2i42pq/revised_glossary_of_terms_and_acronyms/

keyser Soze
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keyser Soze
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8L8NopVwdg

This is the true vetting!.
It is hilarious, True and cruel.
One of my favorite movie.

Anonymous Reader
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Last year on travel I was in a bookstore in a largeish city and skimmed through Superior Man but when I got to the part where he asserts that women don’t lie I began to lose interest. Yes, they speak from emotions. Yes, their memories can be quite conditional, the choose to remember the things that they like and choose to forget other things. But that’s not necessarily what “lying” means. “Lying” is when a person claims as “true” something they know is “false”, for some purpose or other, often to avoid admitting bad behavior. Whether it’s a childish “I… Read more »

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