Red Pill Parenting – Part I

Red Pill Parenting

“If I’m not going to have children, she told herself, then I’m going to have lovers.” – Robin Rinaldi, The Wild Oats Project.

In last week’s essay I put an emphasis on men’s understanding women’s rudimentary doubt of their Hypergamous choices with regards to rearing children and the overall health of a family. There are a great many social factors in our westernized feminine-centric social structure that encourages women to delay both marriage and becoming a mother well past their prime fertility windows.

In the Myth of the Biological Clock I detailed the misconceptions women hold with have with regard to their own capacity of having children later in life:

Popular culture likes to teach women and, by association, unenlightened men that there is an innate biological clock inside each woman that slowly ticks down to a magical period where her maternal instincts at long last predispose her to wanting a child. Perhaps, not so surprisingly, this coincides perfectly with the Myth of Women’s Sexual Peak as well as conveniently being the age demographic just post or just prior to when most women hit the Wall.

[…]I wont argue that women actually possess maternal instincts, I will argue that their understanding of when they manifest has been deliberately distorted by a feminine-centric cultural influence. If women are “angry” about the revelation their inability or difficulty to conceive in their post-Wall biological conditions presents, their anger is misdirected. Rather than come down from the heady pedestal of ego-invested female empowerment psychology, they’ll blame men for not being suitable fathers, or lacking a will to “play-by-the rules” and satisfy the dictates of the feminine imperative by whiling away their time in porn and video game induced comas.

The “have it all” mentality popularized by feminism has led to some very bad social effects for women on whole. While a great deal of “having it all” is couched in messaging that appeals to enabling ’empowered®’ women get a similar deal from career life that men are supposedly enjoying, the subtext in this message is one of never settling for a less than Hypergamously optimal (better than, not equal) monogamous pairing with a man.

The “have it all” advertising is about life fulfillment from a distractingly equalist perspective; meaning an ostensibly equitable or better fulfillment than the Feminine Imperative would have women expect that men are getting from life. Women want to be men. Thus the push for female college enrollment that imbalances men’s enrollment, etc., but in so doing the life course women are directed to by the imperative also limits their Hypergamous optimization efforts by putting unrealistic expectations upon it.

As a result women either delay childbearing until ages that put them and any offspring at a health risk, or they simply forego marriage altogether and birth a child with the foreknowledge that the father (though maybe an adequate provisioner) will never be a contender to quell her doubts of his Hypergamous suitability.

If Momma Aint Happy, Aint Nobody Happy

I’m fleshing out this aspect of Hypergamy here because I believe, as with all thing female, that a broad understanding of Hypergamy is essential to a man’s life and has far reaching effects that go beyond just learning Game well enough to get the lay on a Saturday night when a woman is in her ovulatory peak phase.

A byproduct of the societal embrace of Open Hypergamy is the degree to which women are largely disposed to delaying commitment until what I call their Epiphany Phase and then transitioning into a need for security once their capacity to attract and arouse men decays and/or is compromised by intrasexual competition (a.k.a. The Wall). I detail this child-birth postponement process in Preventive Medicine where I outline women’s Party Years through their Epiphany Phase, however it’s important for men to understand that this phase is largely the result of women believing they should have a similar window as a man in which they can have both a career and find the “right guy” to partner in parenting with.

Equalism’s fundamental flaw is rooted in the belief that men and women are both rational and functional equals, separated only by social influence and selfish imperatives (uniquely attributed to men). The grave consequences women accept in this belief is that their sexual market value declines with age, both in terms of intrasexual competition and fertility.

As such, we entertain the bemoaning of generations of women frustrated that they were unable to consolidate on a Hypergamous ideal because they believed they had ample time to do so while pursuing the Alpha Fucks aspect of their Hypergamy in the years of their prime fertility window.

Furthermore, they believe that the men who are available and ready to fulfill the Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy simply don’t measure up to their socialized, overinflated, sense of Hypergamous entitlement (and particularly in comparison to the men who made them Alpha Widows in their Party Years).

So distressing is this prospect, and so keenly aware of it are women that they are beginning to mandate failsafe measures in anticipation of not being able to optimize Hypergamy – such as preemptive egg freezing and legislating that men pay for their infertility while married in alimony settlements.

It’s come to the point where the ages of 29-31 are no longer being considered a crisis point for women with regard to child bearing. With the cultural popularization of the false hope in frozen ovum extending a woman’s birthing timeframe, now, even 35-38 years old seems to magically grant women some bonus years in which to secure a man for parental investment. The question is no longer one of a woman making herself suitable for a man’s parental investment (by his late 30’s no less) – her default suitability is inherent in her femaleness according to the Feminine Imperative – but rather, she believes, a magical-thinking proposition of waiting out the Hypergamously right father for her children.

Parental Precautions

I’m stressing these points here before I move on to Red Pill parenting ideology so men who are, or want to become fathers, husbands, LTR boyfriends, understand the import that Hypergamy plays in any family arrangement they hope to create.

Just to head off all the MGTOWs reading first; don’t get married. Under contemporary western circumstances there is no advantage for men in a state of marriage and 100% advantage for women. Unfortunately, as things are structured, marriage will always be a cost-to-benefit losing proposition while women insist on making marriage a legalistic contract of male-only liabilities.

That said, also remember that an entire world steeped in feminine-primary social imperatives is arrayed against your efforts in being a positively masculine father to your kids. Those anti-father efforts start with women’s own fem-centric conditioning that leads them to both manically push for Hypergamous optimization personally and societally, but yet they will delay that optimization until all opportunities for her have been exhausted. If you are considering marriage and starting a family with a woman between the ages of 27 and 31, statistically this is the situation and mentality that woman is likely experiencing.

I’m presenting these things to you as a father or potential father, because it’s important for you to discern what women have been conditioned to believe and expect from men and for themselves. In the coming weeks I will post an essay on the complementarity both sexes have evolved for to make our species what it is today; and that conventional complementarity is something idealistic equalism would distort. However, for now it’s important to realize that women have been thrust into this zero-hour, jump-at-the-last-second, cash out of the sexual marketplace schedule of mating that their very biology rebels against.

Single Moms and “Good” Fathers

It’s also important for men to understand that, while there is a constant ‘Man Up’ beratement of fathers for their lack of willing involvement in a child’s life, men are simultaneously presented with the female ’empowerment’ meme. That meme proposes these fathers’ parental involvement is effectively superfluous to that child’s maturation because Strong Independent Women® can reportedly fulfill a fathers’ role equally as well as any man (the equalist narrative).

For all the public awareness campaigns extolling fathers to be fathers, the message is always one of being “better” fathers and placing them into a default position of being less than ‘good’ by virtue of their maleness. In fact a ‘good’ father is a rarely appreciated commodity because that ‘good’ quality is always tied to a man’s never ending and ever shifting burden of performance.

On the other side, the single mother empowerment meme is endemic. However it’s important to use our Red Pill Lens with this meme because the message is one that forgives women of their inability to make themselves appropriate prospects for men’s parental investment. At the same time this meme also foist the blame for men’s unwillingness to parentally invest squarely on men’s presumed responsibility to women optimizing their Hypergamy to their satisfaction:

I’m Stupid Picky.

In my 15 or so years of dating, I’ve been around. I don’t mean that to sound skanky, but … it’s not like I haven’t given love a chance. The problem? Out of all the men I’ve ever dated, there has only been one or two that I felt a genuine connection with. It is a rare thing indeed for me to meet someone I feel like I could picture spending forever with. Sadly, I can’t even remember the last time I met a man who gave me butterflies. It’s definitely been years.

I Want the Fairytale.

There are very few relationships I’ve witnessed in my life that I would actually want for myself. Which begs the question, what do I want? Well, I want a man who is great with kids and totally open to adopting a houseful with me. I want a man who is smart and driven, sexy and hilarious. One who gets me, and who challenges me, and who makes me weak in the knees. Basically … I want everything. And I’m not sure the image I have in my head of what love should be is something that actually exists in real life.

My Daughter Will Always Be Priority Number One.

If you think my expectations of what I want for me are implausible, we probably shouldn’t even discuss my expectations of what I want for the man who steps into that paternal role for my daughter. Truthfully, as much as I want that father figure for her, I am also absolutely terrified of choosing wrong, of messing up our dynamic by choosing a man who isn’t worthy of being her father.

This article’s entire checklist reads like a manifesto for the Strong Independent® single mother with no consideration given to how men, potential fathers or husbands might interpret it. As expected, Campbell perpetuates the ‘put your kid first’ religion of motherhood here, but after reading through her single-mom rationalizations, and then combined with men’s presumptive servitude to the beneficiaries of the Feminine Imperative, it’s easy to see why most, if not all men, might be hesitant to sign up for their expected duty.

Preparations

My point here isn’t to dissuade men from wanting to be fathers, but rather that they enter into being a parent with their eyes open to how Hypergamy, and a cultural imperative that’s built around it, influences women’s life choices today. I mentioned earlier in this essay about women between the ages of 27 and 31 experiencing the first harsh realities of the consequences their choices have predisposed them to. Understand, as a man, your desire, your potential, for parental investment puts you into a position of being very sexually selective. So much in fact that the Feminine Imperative has long-held social conventions to pre-established with the purpose of convincing men they are not only obligated to fulfilling women’s Hypergamous strategy, but should feel lucky to do so.

The truth is that it is women who are at their most necessitous of men during this phase of their lives – thus placing men with the means and desire to become a parent into a prime selector’s position. Feminine social conditioning has done all it can to predispose Beta men to wait out and forgive women their short-term Alpha Fucks indiscretions during their Party Years, but as Red Pill awareness becomes unignorable the pressures of maintaining the image of being the prime selector will wear on women.

That said, I’ve had many men ask me how best to go about becoming a Red Pill parent. I’ve had many men express that the only advantage to marriage is in creating a healthy, hopefully complementary, environment in which to raise children. However, I’m not sure even women would concur with this assessment in the face of a social narrative that tells them they can raise a child as well as any father can. Yet, by the definition of the Feminine Imperative, a ‘good’ father is one who will sublimate his masculinity and assume a feminine, subservient gender role, thus making his superfluous whether he’s available or not.

In the last essay I emphasized establishing a strong, dominant, yet positive masculine Frame. This is the vital starting point for any long term relationship a man might hope to raise children in. The next imperative a man must confront is the Herculean obstacles he faces in a western culture that devalues him as a father, but obligates him to be an involved ‘good’ father who can only ever qualify himself to the mother of his children (who should place them above his interests) and qualify himself to a society that’s been conditioned to hold him to her standards.

Finally, a potential father needs to understand the circumstance in which women’s never ending quest to satisfy their Hypergamous doubt places them in at various phases of their maturity. For Red Pill men, a lot gets made of ‘vetting’ women for personal attributes and character to make them contenders for being the mother of their children. While this is important, I can’t stress enough how important it is to account for the Hypergamous choices women make prior to his consideration, as well as the consequences she should be held accountable for, yet attempts to avoid by his obligated graces.

In Part II I will expand on what to expect when raising sons and daughters from a Red Pill perspective.

 

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

My first thought:

https://youtu.be/w9vOknq0uys?t=111

teddj4g
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“I’m pregnant. You’re the father.”

Now that you mention it Rollo, that’s a key lie for a married guy. By default the law assumes the child born to your wife is your financial responsibility. There are cases where DNA proved otherwise after a divorce and the judge STILL required child support!

But hey, paternity theft is no big deal, right?

Anders
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This is a reply to Andy. Andy there is no way in hell you have reached the age of 28 yet. Untill you reach that age, your brain is not fully developed yet. For some grown men, not all, spotting a teenage virgin is something we can just do. You could litteraly line up ten 18 year old girls in front of me. I would only have to look each one in the eye for 10 seconds to tell you who is a virgin and who is not. Please stop telling grown men, it is a beta move to care… Read more »

redlight
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@anders

“nocherrynomarry”

the good news is there are women like Lolo Jones waiting for you

SJF
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I don’t really want comments to get side-tracked on a critique of Deida. I thought a few of his ideas provided a more in depth answer to BigAl. And it takes a masculine male in his full stride to just get Deida–like Blaximus (but he’s a good 2 or 3 standard deviations among the masculine male mean). A red pill manosphere enthusiast reads lots of written material. His book should at least be on the reading list. It’s a starting point, not an ending point. Deida’s stuff written in 1997 is a catalyst for ideas. It is not a be… Read more »

CaveClown
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On the subject of parenting and screening properly for a wife… My wife is actually doing a decent job of raising our kids. However, this was after I have taught her to: not play favorites not spoil with endless small treats and toys not playing hurtful tricks on or maliciously teasing the kids to properly discipline to not apologize to the child for disciplining them to show her disapproval when the child talks back to me (and vice versa) to give them tasks and not just constant play time to not push a 3 year old to the point of… Read more »

CaveClown
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Everyone says to keep a marriage together for the children. I am actually (partly) ending the marriage for the children. If I am to break the cycle of narcissism with the girls that I am raising, they cannot be in a household where the mother does not respect the father. It just cannot happen. If she grudgingly falls into my frame, but shows disrespect and resistance the entire time, all that does is show my kids how to do the same. My wife has pushed issues to threats of divorce or suicide. If I blow up and get exceptionally angry,… Read more »

CaveClown
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“I’m sorry that I had to give you a timeout for you misbehaving…you know I still love you right? Right?” “Tell mommy how much you love her! Is your love for me bigger than the universe?” “I don’t like to spend time with you when you aren’t behaving as well as your sister. It makes mommy feel bad when you do that. You don’t want to make mommy feel bad do you? Are you someone that likes to make people feel that way? Your sister doesn’t make people feel bad” 8 years later, I’ve got 99% of that shit stopped,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Here’s why men are better parents than women:

SD
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“nocherrynomarry” That’s hilarious. No , really. It’s another male schema, this idea of “I shall marry a virgin!” Yeah I’m just a plate-spinning 27 year old dude. Yet , if nothing else, I’ve learned this much- you can trust women will lie when it suits their interests. And it will always suit a woman’s interests to lie where her past is concerned sexually. That’s not a moral judgement-I lie to women to get laid. They lie to men to get resources and emotional security.No ones a saint. Further, we live in a freaking matriarchy. Let that sink in. Women count… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@SD

Is it really any different than saying “Don’t get married in the modern environment”? The fact that you’re getting Alpha Widowed women out the ass these days just makes a bad joke of marriage. Saying “I’ll only marry a virgin” is pretty much the same as saying “I ain’t gettin married. Ain’t worth it.”

Now if a dude expects to only plate or ONS low N or virgin women, you’re kiddin yourself. But dudes that refuse to marry high N Alpha Widows? I can respect that. Enough guys doing it might start to bring some balance back to things.

Edi
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I was seeing a hbd 8 single mommy over the summer. She was a solid 9 pre-kid. She lives half a block away from me so I figured “she’s hot and conveniently close. I’ll just get my dick wet a few times and move on.” After getting to know her I’ve discovered that she is a cliche of a cliche. This girl is so damaged it’s sad. Here’s the basics of this girl: Alpha widow Single mommy High School dropout 3 small tattoos (one of a playboy bunny) Hairdresser Likes her vodka a little too much Loves Pink Sold some… Read more »

Anders
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You go abroad to find your wife, I see more and more men in Denmark do it. Eastern Europe still has some good women. Also, you go to a country where age of consent is low. In Denmark it’s 15 and Germany it’s 14. Go on wiki and look up the age of consent and age of marriage in Columbia, Brazil and rest of Southamerica. Being ashamed of going abroad to find a wife is for losers. I had girls starting to throw there pussy at me when i was 11-12 and at age 29 i can still fuck 15… Read more »

Karl
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Back when her book-release story first broke, I had made an effort to find out what ultimately happened to Robin Rinaldi. No money spent…. just sustained, junkyard-dog google’ing.

The dead end I discovered , makes me presume that it wasn’t a pretty picture. Otherwise, she’d still be bragging about it.

I found traces of the original husband. Rather beta-bux…. but currently thriving.

Sun Wukong
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Pushed the asshole hard enough to get a beer tossed at me by a supremely drunk bitch tonight, still didn’t get laid. Starting to really hate this town.

lh
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“If I blow up and get exceptionally angry, she will fall in line and be very feminine and affectionate. But I have to be a complete asshole. Some of our best sex has been after I have blown up and told her to get fucked. (or worse) It’s like she feeds on that level of asshole alpha…which is not me nor do I like to do it. (i’m cocky as shit, but not your cliche verbally abusive asshole alpha)” A BPD probably needs more of that asshole alpha than other women. But in the end being asshole is performance. And… Read more »

kfg
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kfg
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http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm is more comprehensive and easier to scan than Wikipedia.

benfromtexas
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I remember Rollo brought up a YaReally term “Larping” & this was the first I’d heard of this term. We were talking about Frank Miller stuff, and Rollo had mentioned if the movie 300 or Larping helps then it can be good for the man.

Well I was scanning the net and vVice just released an article about Larping actually helping a man psychologically. I copied the link for anyone interested. I didn’t even know this stuff existed.

http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/larping-helped-one-man-deal-with-autism

CaveClown
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“A BPD probably needs more of that asshole alpha than other women. But in the end being asshole is performance. And the better your performance, the less you have to worry about deficits of character of your women.” Well…I don’t mean asshole as in negging and being contrarian. I mean that she has literally told me I can hit her. She came *this close* to actually asking me to do it on a few occasions. Someone here mentioned that even virgins can be an alpha widow? My wife fits that description I think. She’s N=1….but I compete with this guy… Read more »

lh
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Yesterday I watched ” The 13. Warrior” again for the first time after “RP awakening”. There is hardly any interaction with women of course, but if you want to see proper men and how male hierarchies work, that movie gets a big recommendation, way better than 300 if you ask me. What I found especially interesting is how much these (fictional) Vikings use game concepts not only as means for social dominance but also to deal with their own emotions. “We are all gonna die!” – “Could be, …”. Or how giving yourself some dying prayer before battle takes away… Read more »

bnon
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by the time I can estimate the n-count, I already like the chicks to much to dump them because of it. Then I get a little uneasy about her being too easy. wat do

teddj4g
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Bnon – “by the time I can estimate the n-count, I already like the chicks to much to dump them because of it. Then I get a little uneasy about her being too easy. wat do”

Don’t get attached. Learn to control that. You invest far too fast if your still finding out about her past and already feeling attached. The time to invest is AFTER the investigation AND the laying out of how the relationship will go down IF you decide to pursue one.

Roused
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Couple of questions:

Any of you guys get pre-nups locked in place before marriage? Only curious as I’m sure as hell not getting married again.

Second, has anybody successfully gotten their alimony reduced or eliminated once their ex co-habitated with her new partner unmarried?

I currently don’t have the funding for a lawyer to fight in court and finding little solid help via web research other than lawyers blogging about general stuff as a way to generate leads for new clients. Looking to file on my own to get this financial hyperpergamous monkey off my back.

scribblerg
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@Sun – “Pushing the asshole” never works. You have to “push-pull” to create an up/down emotional roller coaster for her. Surprise her or even shock her, but then make her giggle. If you were to chart her emotional state while you are picking up, it would look like a saw’s teeth. Be aggressive, then self-deprecating. Compliment her, then make fun of her. Be friendly but also unattached. I think you actually don’t like most women much, from the way you speak. I think this comes through to them hence why your game doesn’t work so well. Me? I love sluts,… Read more »

benfromtexas
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Ih, I never thought of it that way but you’re correct. A death prayer or getting pumped/hyped up before a fight is agree/amplify.

To be truthful, I don’t watch a lot of pop culture except for Game of Thrones or the Walking Dead. Naturally I’d watch something with a girl like Netflix or something like that. I really can’t stand a lot of pop culture nowadays. I’ve actually gotten into older classic shows my parents watched back in the day. Even the black & white ones like Mr. Ed.

lh
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“Well…I don’t mean asshole as in negging and being contrarian. I mean that she has literally told me I can hit her. She came *this close* to actually asking me to do it on a few occasions.” I didn’t mean some charming negging neither. There are probably countless ways to turn up the asshole, we should make a compilation maybe. Hitting her on occasion may not even be very far out, depending on what you do. In my LTRs I had to hit most women at some point. 2 of them got the bicycle lock around their neck onto the… Read more »

benfromtexas
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I had a friend who went to his county clerks office and asked around. He found out it depends on state laws. Each state is different, but then you still are at the mercy of a judge who most likely is a SJW groupie. We live in Texas and his old lady moved in with another dude and he was able to get it temporarily reduced but her new man lawyered her up and the bitch got it back. The courts are just not much in a man’s favor. Do like my friend did. Go to your local county law… Read more »

CaveClown
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“One of these days she’s going to get carried away, and accidentally fall on some alpha guys cock and never tell you. And many of you who think you have faithful wives don’t know that your wife has already done so, particularly if she’s hot.” Quit talking about my wife. lol Awesome comment. The whole thing. Love it. Keep talking scribblerg, I’m listening, and guys like you are truly improving lives. (mine anyway) LH, I hear what you’re saying, but I also can’t agree with it. Too much risk. Courts, cops, etc. Does that make me a weak bitch for… Read more »

lh
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I’ve clearly done things that were illegal. But the fear for of the cops never even crossed my mind and no women ever tried threatening me by calling the cops. I also wouldn’t recommend something illegal if you feel any anxiousness about it.

CaveClown
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Upper-middle class business owner in a small town and I personally know most of the wealthier and successful individuals in my area, including the chief of the local pig patrol.

Illegal ain’t happening. Not that sort of illegal anyway.

Not so small of a town that something like that would get swept under the rug. I’d get crucified.

CaveClown
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I said upper-middle class…

I’m actually in the top 5% for income in the country.

A lot to risk.

lh
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I’m a lawyer. I’d lose everything by law if I get caught with anything beyond very minor. ZFG anyway – but this ZFG is absolutely required to not let the women get the idea of power out of your fears.

keyser Soze
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You know to whom N count matters the most? TO WOMEN. American women travel to “exotic” places, for “fun” So the N count stays over seas. West European/some,east European women travel to America to have” fun” with “cute”American boys. Good Veiled Saudi women go to the Red Sea Resorts in Egypt to visit the “pyramids”!. Small village (any where in the world) girl, travel to the big city to have “fun” with city boys. When all the girls comes home, why do you think they hide their N count? Ps, Do this experiment : Take your girlfriend to meet your… Read more »

keyser Soze
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Ps,
If your mother was okay and gave you the go ahead, Congratulations, now you know your mother’s N count ,and your father was a beta.

kfg
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@lh: My top three picks for red pill men’s movies are The 13th Warrior, and the Bogie/Bacall movies To Have and Have Not and The Big Sleep.

I think it’s worth the time to compare the Bogie Big Sleep to the ’78 version, not only to see the two different visions of the same story, but because in the post Bogie period Robert Mitchum was the fucking man.

SJF
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@ScribblerG There you go again. Giving tips on OSG (old single Guy) Game and letting me re-interpret and calibrate this to OMG game. The concepts are fungible. The push-pull concept is a timely one for me. (In real life, under the mentorship of Scrib and Forge I have been advised to lighten up and be playful and lively. To stop with the didactic and the logical dull boring SJF). Well the Push is like the masculine caveman. And the Pull is like the feminine emotional. I have been spending too much time in masculine self improvement. I have too much… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Sun Good go, man! Sounds like you’re pushing yourself. And ya, learning to make the asshole work, and making it congruent, and not coming across as bitter or angry, can take a long time. I started learning game/redpill while in an LTR, and it lasted for a good 9 months for me to experiment after that. Still not nearly enough. I was trying to up the dominance/asshole and frankly she just found it confusing and hurtful. It can be a tricky journey at first. Part of my issue was lack of congruence and conviction, sure. Part of it was also… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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@Scribblerg Great comment, man. My reply to Sun adds all I really can to it. Except I might try to find some youtube videos that demonstrate what you’re talking about, good push-pull and asshole game can be tricky to figure out. I’m still a novice at it myself – still doing too much push, and my pulls feel beta. Eh. At least I’m getting self-amusment down. re: Deida – a lot of words spilled about him this thread. I think we can all agree that he has good thoughts, and writing in ’99 he was very prescient. But like any… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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“by the time I can estimate the n-count, I already like the chicks to much to dump them because of it. Then I get a little uneasy about her being too easy. wat do” If things are far enough that you need to dump her by the time you can guess her N, you need to sexualize your interactions more quickly. You should ideally have a solid grasp of how she regards sex/what sort of sexual person she is by the end of your first real convo with her. It might seem strange at first, but male/female relationships are about… Read more »

kfg
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“You do know it’s a retelling of Beowulf right?”

If you’re gonna steal, steal the best.

Oh, and while I’m here I’ll put in my usual plug for a grossly underrated movie: Heat. No, not that Heat, the Burt Reynolds one. A notorious production disaster in Hollywood which hurt it with the critics, and admittedly not the finest film ever made, but deeply red pill.

SJF
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@Forge the Sky “You need to play both ends of the stick. It’s a tricky art, till you get the grasp of it. I think the convo between lh and CaveClown is actually on point here: “I think the “natural” key could be in the end to be downright unfair and abusive. If you don’t feel good because she isn’t very feminine and affectionate (or whatever else), hurt her because of it. Don’t control your bad mood but let it out on her. I never really did it, but I think I should because then she would be responsible for… Read more »

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benfromtexas
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Didn’t know that. I’ve found that most ancient or classic stories are the best. It would make sense to tell the stories in a different form. Beowulf, Joshua, or even historical accounts of McCarther, Sam Houston, or George Wahington are awesome. A must read book if interested is called “George Washington, Blood Tyrant”. Talk about the leader of men. You read that & afterwards you realize how bad ass our President was as a general. It’s eye opening. Most generals watched from a far in battles. He used to give “Braveheart” type speeches, & he would literally lead the charge… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@lh “So I think the foreignness of game to many men could have a lot to do with the practice of ignoring their own emotions (because they are weak anyway and can be ignored) instead of really controlling them by their own means. If it would be the norm to “fight emotions with emotions”, you could just connect to the women, treat her emotions as if they are yours and deliver perfect game.” Awesome. That’s really getting to the root of it I think. We just kinda live in a buzz of ‘average emotional register’ rather than pushing our emotional… Read more »

teddj4g
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teddj4g
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You know what I tell my boys? All women are crazy, the trick is to find the brand of crazy you can deal with. In RP terms, AWALT but to varying degrees. When it comes to LTR/Marriage, there are valid reasons to pursue them. Maybe not for you, and probably not for me in the future, but the most obvious is children. There are no unicorns or “quality women”. There are women. Of course AWALT, but as I said to different degrees individually. So vetting a LTR prospect isn’t about finding a unicorn, its about finding the right brand of… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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Yeah, I get that I still gotta calibrate this shit. And it wasn’t all push, there was some pull. I was basically having to work an entire table (all married, though not all wearing rings) since my buddy who was trying to wing was failing miserably, then decided to get greedy and go after the chick I was working. Hottest chick at the table (I’d call her an HB8) who had done a solid double take on me initially that my buddy and I had both seen, then moved around from having her back to me to facing where she… Read more »

SJF
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SJF
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“Having a wing man that decides to start competing with you because he’s had a bit too much to drink doesn’t help either.”

Sorry to hear that Sun Wukong. Doesn’t get any worse than that. Life’s to short to suffer through a shitty wingman. Better luck next time.

scribblerg
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scribblerg
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@Sun – Rough night, I get it.

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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Dang, tough set. Doesn’t sound like you did too poorly, considering….you had a lot of random, volatile dynamics involved. I’m no expert, but I think isolation is key in those sorts of situs. Juggler has a novel, simple idea for isolation here: https://youtu.be/-unuqF4uklE It’s a long video, the method is in the first 25 minutes or so (all of it’s really good tho). Basically, you force an IOI, approach immediately, then greet the target familiarly – so the rest of the group thinks you know each other. This disarms a lot of defensiveness that can happen. Then you isolate with… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@scribblerg Yeah, pretty much. I don’t hate the women, it’s just a piss poor selection that leaves me uninspired to try a lot of times. I’m sure that comes across, it’s just a really hard thing to shut off. They’re not even good sluts, just bitchy, bitter women with HB10 shields. Not worth the effort. @SJF Yeah, finding a good wing almost seems harder and more important than finding a consistent source of chicks worth hitting on. Only friend I have I think would be great at it lives like 6 hours away in Arkansas. He might move this way… Read more »

benfromtexas
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benfromtexas
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Sun, do you set rules with your wing? I have 3 different guys for different situations. Ex: one does day game another is only available on weekends, but any way. We have rules, like whoever approaches gets the pick of the litter or visual preferences. I have a friend who only goes for blondes and gingers, and I love black hair/dark features, so competition with him never happens. Do you set rules for helping each other? If your wing consistently does that, I’d drop him and day game solo. Strong eye contact and get her buying temp up is easier,… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@ben

Nah, was a brief discussion ahead of time. Both of us saying she just did a massive, obvious double take on me, so he says “Yeah that’s yours, go for it I’ll wing.” I get the entire table to invite us over, he goes straight for the chick. So basically we both had agreed it was my move since she had clearly checked me out, but he still moved in anyway despite saying he’d help.

Said one thing, did another. I don’t think setting rules would matter with somebody like that.

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@ben, Forge

I’d had recommendations that if I’m having trouble finding a wing, day game might be better. Night time people mark you as suspicious if you’re alone. Day time solo is considered pretty normal, I just… I dunno I feel like there’s a sharp edge to my personality lately that I need to smooth out a bit to make it work. That and I seem to run in to too many high school chicks.

I’ll see if I can do better with it. Just feels even more awkward than night game to me currently.

Forge the Sky
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Forge the Sky
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@Sun Heh, I feel ya. For whatever reason I get the strongest ioi’s from high school girls. Maybe they just lack subtlety, but damn. See a cute girl flipping her hair and leaning at me or something from the corner of my eye, look closer, and ‘damn. She is clearly like 16.’ Happens to me weekly. And ya, daygame is awkward as hell at first (I hear it gets better, still awkward for me). AA is crippling me, esp. during the day currently. I think I’m just gonna approach some girls with the intention of just asking for directions or… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Sun Wukong
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@Forge Yeah AA on day game is like.. 10 times what it is on night game. Feels like EVERYBODY is gonna be looking as you crash and burn. You have to instantly approach and just say hi, no testing for IOIs at all. Roosh often used the looking for a pet shop or directions thing, always seemed sound. Personally I’m thinking I should work on cultivating a warmer personality for day game. It’s something I’ve never really had though, and my background has made it super difficult for me to be that way by default. I can approach anybody, say… Read more »

rugby11ljh
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rugby11ljh
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@Rollo Tommasi “Either way the data you hoped to glean is corrupted. Far better to be subtle and covert about it. Most men don’t have the patience or mastery for it, but women LOVE to talk about themselves and with the right art she’ll volunteer every honest detail of her past if you never tip your hand.” Working on mastering this subtle art. Being covert is also new to me at 27. “As if your life depends on it, because it does.” It true “On your first date she reveals she is the widow of Pat Tillman.” A friend of… Read more »

longgone
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longgone
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lh

“The 13. Warrior” again for the first time after “RP awakening”. There is hardly any interaction with women of course, but if you want to see proper men and how male hierarchies work, that movie gets a big recommendation, way better than 300 if you ask me.”

Agreed, but it would still have been great without the unnecessary muslim ass-kissing propaganda.

Luxocrat
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Luxocrat
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And now this plea to get men to marry…to “help the community/State”:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/656571501857120256

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