The Vetting Process

vetting

I apologize for interrupting the flow of this series’ posts, but I felt this question from reader Andy deserved a full stop:

I could care less who I’m talking to. IMO if you’re looking to disqualify a woman based on her sexual history you’re doing yourself a disservice because you better believe that the high quality chicks have been fucked in every way imaginable. If not you it’s somebody else… Might as well be you!

Have a look at this guy’s story in Saving the Best:

“I married a slut who fucks like a prude.”

Andy, I do agree with you in part. Too much overt concern (i.e. asking) about a woman’s sexual past is indeed demonstrating lower value. Men whom women consider Alpha, the men that women already have a mental impression of, don’t overly concern themselves with women’s sexual pasts because those men have multiple options going.

On some level of consciousness women know that if what he can glean from interacting with her about her sexual past is off-putting to an Alpha he’ll simply eject and move on to a better prospect. An Alpha mindset is often very minimalist, blunt and direct, but there are aspects of interacting with women that come as a default for a man who is his own Mental Point of Origin. One of those unspoken aspects is a self-understanding that he has options (or can generate more) and this is manifested in his indifference to a woman’s long term sexual suitability. If she doesn’t enter his Frame, to his satisfaction, he moves on to the next prospect with very little communication.

However, we weren’t discussing non-exclusive dating/fucking; we’re discussing making an investment in a woman we’re vetting for our own parental investment. When you consider the all-downside risks a man must wager on that investment it behooves him to be his most particular about that woman’s sexual past and the consequences that YOU will be burdened with if you don’t vet wisely.

Most men (myself included at the time) have very sparse prerequisites when it comes to their considering a woman for marriage or even an LTR. This lack of insight is the result of a constant battery of shame and preconditioning by the Feminine Imperative that tells men any requisites they would have of a woman for marriage are ‘passing judgement’ on her character. He should consider himself “lucky” that any woman would have him for a husband (or “put up with him”) and his concerns about her are shameful, typically male character flaws on his part.

Consequentially men rarely permit themselves the luxury of putting their own considerations above that of a potential mate.

Vetting

If you asked a woman whether she would be wary of marrying a man who was a recovering alcoholic or a cleaned up heroin addict she’d probably disqualify him as a marriage prospect from the outset. And were she to go ahead and marry him anyway with full disclosure of his past addictions, would we be sympathetic with her if he were to relapse and she to bear the brunt of his past indiscretions?

Now suppose that woman married this former addict, but due to his being offended about her prying into his past, she was ignorant of his old addictions. She has her suspicions, but society tells her it’s not her purview to hold him accountable for anything that happened in his past.

He’s moved on and so should she, right? Any lingering consequences from his addictions (such as a DUI, criminal record or his unemployability) shouldn’t be held against him, nor should she judge him, nor should she consider those consequences whatsoever when she’s assessing his suitability for marriage now.

In fact, she should feel ashamed to even consider his past with regard to her feelings about who he is. Her judgementalism only points to her own character flaws.

Now, would we praise that woman for “following her heart” and marrying him? Would we hold her accountable for the decision to marry him if he relapses?

Reverse the genders and this scenario is precisely why women become so hostile when men even hint at ‘judging’ women’s past sexual decisions. There is a very well established operative social convention that the sisterhood will all unanimously get behind; and that is the ruthless shaming of men who would ask any questions about any woman’s sexual past. This is the degree of desperation that women feel during the Epiphany Phase when they acknowledge men becoming aware of their long term sexual strategy.

They understand that, in their Epiphany Phase, the clock is ticking down to zero. That’s the cause of a lot of anxiety. They are just beginning to understand that their marriageability (Beta Bucks) now conflicts with their previous short-term mating strategy (Alpha Fucks). As I detailed in Betas in Waiting, women of this age cannot afford to have their short term sexual strategy count against them at a time when they are at their most necessitous of what that Beta can provide towards her long term security.

Again, on some level of consciousness, women understand that were the ignorant Beta she’s decided to marry (start a family with or help her raise her illegitimate children with) becomes aware of what she did in her sexual past he too might expect that same degree of sexual performance. The performance she reserved for the men she perceived as Alpha and freely gave to them.

Women must keep the details of that past secret and obscured. So grave is this anxiety that men must be punished for having the temerity to be curious about it. It is vitally important because a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner. Every new sexual partner is a potential Alpha to be widowed by, but the man who marries her must be kept ignorant of those men if she is to secure his resources and his parental investment.

This social convention operates on absolving women’s past indiscretions by redefining them as a period of learning who she would become. It was her “journey of self-discovery” and she’s “not that person” any more. Cleverly enough this is exactly the same convention and same rationale of women who divorce their husbands later in life to “take the journey of self-discovery” of Eat, Prey, Love she passed up when she was younger.

Knowing this, it is also vitally important for men to keep women’s dualistic sexual strategy in mind at every age of her maturity.

Lets not forget the advice of Sheryl Sandberg here:

“When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home. These men exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.”

― Sheryl Sandberg, Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead

Open Hypergamy is triumphantly crowed about when women are at their SMV peaks, and sometimes again once that woman has secured her long-term provider or divorced him, but when a woman is in her Epiphany Phase, when she’s anxious and frustrated in securing her own long term provisioning, that is when she will fall back on the social convention that shames men for their own awareness of the same Open Hypergamy they would otherwise flaunt for him.

So, now that we understand the latent purpose of this social convention, let me explain to every gentleman reading – vetting a woman’s sexual past is not just your prerogative, but an absolute imperative to the health of any future relationship you hope to have with her. When you consider the dire risks you are essentially setting yourself up for – risk no woman will EVER acknowledge or appreciate – the single most important thing you can do is vet that woman’s sexual past.

That doesn’t mean you make weak, DLV, overt inquiries about her past. It means you subtly, covertly and discretely pick up on the many cues and tells she will reveal that past with. Most men would rather use a direct approach to this, and while there’s merit to that, it’s far better to do your vetting by drawing out freely offered information. It’s much more honest and reliable. Once you go the direct route the jig is up and she will play the role she thinks you expect from her, not the honest one you need to make your determinations.

Sex is the glue that holds relationships together. It’s the height of irony that a woman would place so high a priority on her own sexual experiences while in her SMV peak yet completely disqualify that importance when she gets to the phase where it becomes a liability to her. As a man it is vitally important for you to know whether you’ll be her apex Alpha lover or if your burden of performance will be measured against the ghosts of Alpha men from her sexual past – all while you endure the stresses and joys of raising children with her.

573 comments

  1. This is one of my favorite subjects because, due to the internet, the jig is slowly becoming up. I routinely see posts on reddit with girls simply amazed that the guy she’s with didn’t get the message that her past matters. It’s always amazing to me how girl’s have utterly no sympathy for just how important it is for a guy. Instead it’s supposed to be some sort of reward that they are the last one to ride the hoe train? Give me a break.

    Anyways, here’s one from just the other day: https://archive.is/7zVfJ . The justice is sweet, but the more women that read these posts, the more learn to keep their past as private as possible. So it becomes more and more paramount that men use the covert methods you instructed in order to properly vet their women.

  2. Interesting post. I have long since accepted how many men the girls I sleep with have been with. I do not care, but I am not looking for any long term investment either. However, I am that alpha to most of these girls. I get their sexual best. I get anal, enthusiastic blowjobs, and I get all of this investing little to no time in them. So here is my question. Depending on what level you are at, is it possible that the count really does not matter if you demonstrate high enough value? If I were to get married, I could imagine I would still be getting her sexual best due to the fact that a lot of guys out there are very much beneath me. I probably will not, because I think marriage is an archaic sham, but I cannot discount the possibility.

  3. “If I were to get married, I could imagine I would still be getting her sexual best due to the fact that a lot of guys out there are very much beneath me. I probably will not, because I think marriage is an archaic sham, but I cannot discount the possibility.”

    Andrew, you could even change the question to if I were to have a Long Term Relationship. There might be value in a long term relationship. And once you give up your commitment card, you don’t have it in your hand anymore. And Nexting in a long term relationship game also loses its power depending on the quality of your woman (if you don’t settle). If she is a very good partner, you lose out on the value that you can derive from her if things go sour. So, you don’t want to fuck things up.

    So that leaves you with the burden of performance. The burden of performance is something that you shouldn’t rue the thought of. It reinforces the idea that you should stop hoping for a completion in life. Keep moving, keep learning, keep your Game in top shape. Develop Mastery before you need it. It is better to have mastery and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

    “Sex is the glue that holds relationships together.”

    Sex is also a crucible. “Sex is tricky terrain, particularly in long term relationships. It provokes our deepest wounds and also has the potential to allow us to feel the most cosmic connection on the planet. Factor in children, stress from work, long days, emotional triggers,” financial stresses, women flaking, your own personal failures to perform etc “and sex is a crucible.” Don’t let it burn you to a crisp. Let it produce a “marriage” of you and your sexual partner to make the outcome better than you or she individually alone. There is some value in the outcome. Better you bring yourself as good raw material to the crucible. (Have good red pill awareness and have excellent Game.)

  4. @Rollo,
    When men becomes indifferent to women’s N count (regardless of how many alphas or Betas in her N count) , don’t you think the FI / women’s sexual revolution SUCCEDED in sexual Equality?

    What about the psychological / physiological impact on women ,due the their high N count(regardless of who many alphas or Betas) ?

    Ps,
    An alpha who is dating a high N count women, is NEVER alpha.

  5. I have been lurking on this site for a while. I entirely agree with the above post. I brought up the topic of hypergamy, in a politically correct rephrasing, to two females I know well, that is mother and sister. Their answer was that women have a shorter reproductive window and they understandably obsess and speed up the search for a long-term mate.

    This also explains why they move on fast from one partner to the next. Then, they as human beings, enjoy the fun there is to be had.

    Putting myself in their shoes I understand that, what would you do if you, a man, became reproductively impotent by the age of 25-26 ? I know I would frantically search my soulmate or at least someone to carry my seed. Which is exactly what women do. In fact, I fail to see what is so wrong with this. They get their kicks with well hung brad pitts I could in no way compare to ? good for them, enjoy the souvenir. To each his own pleasures.

    I personally do not want to know the sexual past of the women I get. I care only in so far as she may have some STDs. Even if I am not her apex Alpha partner and she fakes it I could not care less. Her past does not matter to me. What I want from her is offspring and an OK, good enough relationship which does not have to last forever. Once you get a kid you are done with your biological function. Even if you cannot take care of the child, even if it gets ugly after divorce and you endure some hardships, you are fine with Darwin. Your life, as a living creature, is fulfilled.

    Women are not that complicated really, just provide a nest. I provide the house, she gives me some kiddies in return. Nest against eggs agreement. A women just wants to have children. Give her a nest and she is in the deal : you are the vetting process winner. You do not even need that much social and financial power. She will weave her love story around that nest. That is what I see around me, provide her the lodging and she is yours. The possibility for you to kick her out at any time for any reason you want is the permanent relationship stability feeder. End of story.

  6. @SJF
    “Develop Mastery before you need it. It is better to have mastery and not need it, than to need it and not have it.”

    “Think of it this way: There are two kinds of failure. The first comes from never trying out your ideas because you are afraid, or because you are waiting for the perfect time. This kind of failure you can never learn from, and such timidity will destroy you. The second kind comes from a bold and venturesome spirit. If you fail in this way, the hit that you take to your reputation is greatly outweighed by what you learn. Repeated failure will toughen your spirit and show you with absolute clarity how things must be done.”
    Robert Greene, Mastery

    For the curious and help with the burden of performance.
    http://judoinfo.com/pdf/hagakure.pdf

  7. @Rollo

    Another great post!

    @Dan Horton

    Great example of AF/BB and hypergamy at its best. The best part was her hamsterism regarding her teenage years when she was “pressured into things she didnt want to do and didn’t know how to say no”. (Ex post facto ASD, perhaps?) Her statement begs the question: does this include the unprotected sex that resulted in your child at 19?

    Like I said, great example!

  8. I once had a girlfriend (who I dropped) and who in a letter to me, which I still have and that is surely why I remember this, wrote: “Sex, as you know [Did I?] was unknown to me until I was twenty-two.”: As if the fact, to which she confessed, – or boasted – that between the ages of twenty-six and twenty-eight she had had sexual intimacy with over three-hundred men somehow negatived her alleged latish adoption of rampant promiscuity. Imagine a serial killer saying: “it is true I killed a few but none before the age of thirty”.

    She was by the way pretty good in bed but I quickly tired of her and the sex – about four weeks of it. Like most women who claim to be liberated, their repertoire is limited and they regard anything they have never done as off-limits.

  9. “When looking for a life partner, my advice to men is fuck all of them: the bad girls, the party girls, the commitment-phobic girls, the crazy girls. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad girls easy do not make them good wives. When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants to be a better partner. Someone who thinks women should be loyal, not easy and trustable. Someone who values her fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do her share in the home. These women exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.” [Chaderly Thunderberg]

  10. … a woman’s capacity to bond with a man is reduced with every new sexual partner.

    Two-three weeks ago a comment on an Androsphere blog (might have been Heartiste) noted that recent/current research is now finding that male sperm actually modifies a woman’s DNA – that every occasion of coitus results in physical/genetic effects in the woman’s body (which is not separate from the mind) long after the seminal fluid has drained/washed out of the vagina/uterus. Essentially, if you’re copulating with a non-virgin, you are also copulating with all her previous “partners”. Certainly adds a whole lot more weight to the traditional distinction between virgin and slut. (Unfortunately, I didn’t make a note of the location of this comment, but I hope to see more about this subject as it becomes wider known.)

    The whole “monogamy” pattern is an artificial construct that’s been pasted over the basically promiscuous nature of the Homo sap species, which is, as one book title put it, The Third Chimpanzee. Female chimps, when in heat, copulate with all the males in the troupe, both to keep the peace and to ensure the survival of her offspring – since no male can know for sure that he isn’t the father, all males will protect or at least not harm the baby. (Bonobos, of course, copulate at all times, even when not in estrus – like humans, though the function in their case is not pair-bonding but keeping the peace.)

    Pair-bonding became necessary for humans when the brain began to grow exponentially, which necessitated earlier birth (and resulted in a brutal selection process, as those women who carried to full term were killed during the birth by the overlarge head of the baby), and a much longer period of offspring dependence, requiring mothers – who could no longer forage for themselves and their infants as chimps do – to form relationships with males whom they could depend on to provide for them. To do this, of course the females offered the males what every male since the invention of sex (some 1.5 billion years ago) has been most desperate to get. This required females to develop the ability to hide natural signals of biological receptivity – which occurs only once a month – so they could arrange to appear to be (as my Anthropology professor at UC Berkeley put it 50 years ago) “always in heat.”

    Which, of course, they are not. And nor are they naturally monogamous. All of which has led to the very complicated and difficult situation that this blog and others are now elucidating and discussing. Very interesting to see the male of the species beginning to wake up to how it all really works.

  11. It is impossible to completely know a woman’s sexual past. But it is entirely possible to know her age. If the average woman is becoming sexually active at 16, and she’s 28 now, that’s 12 years of sucky-fucky. She wants the $20K walk with the baby right after, because that’s her schedule. It is what it is, and you can’t blame them, it works. Their world is not man-world.

    The primary male response is self-improvement. Raise your quality, relentlessly. The lower-quality and more pathetic the Beta chump waiting at the end of the aisle, compared to the upgraded same-age guy standing smirking in the pews because he knows better, and SHE knows he knows better, the tighter the AF/BB schedule becomes.

    I suggest the second part, along with self-improvement, is the clear communication that for every year spent on the Carousel there will be one year of probation. (The term “engagement” should henceforth be defined as “probation”. Give her the big rock when she earns it, not up front)

    So if she’s 28, she will be 40 before you’ll marry her. And you won’t be waiting that long. This way Miss, plummeting expectations on Aisle 3.

    If she’s 22, she can have her Day at 28 “if” she behaves. Proof of good behaviour might shorten the waiting period, but how does she prove that?

    Not your problem. Let her drum up the character references. The Diploma on the wall proves she chased debt, money and dick in her prime years. College is a -10. Tattoos, blue hair, fat, all minuses.

    The AF/BB timeline gets squeezed until there is no more space between them. Hello 1950’s.

    As always, none of this works if you’re a schlub. If women don’t care that you’re passing them up, then you probably suck anyway. Even in an age of comfort and mechanized ease, no Man is exempt from toil.

    The manosphere, distilled: Don’t just acquire shiny objects.

    BE the Shiny Object.

  12. Hux5599,

    You don’t care if you get divorce raped, have your life destroyed, turned into a child support slave for children you may not even get to see, much less have any influence on their lives, because in your mind your purpose is over once some of your sperm enter a woman’s egg?

    Then why would you even bother to get married or have any relationship, beyond sexual, at all?

  13. Rollo, There is a very well established operative social convention that the sisterhood will all unanimously get behind; and that is the ruthless shaming of men who would ask any questions about any woman’s sexual past.

    Not true. Women are quite harsh and bitter against promiscuous women (their definition). They are more likely to attack than get behind others.

    And it’s a gradient thing. Women w/3 partners before their epiphany mock those w/10. Virgins (yes, they still exist in certain communities) harshly mock those with just 1. This makes sense when sitting on the sideline as other women bask in male attention by putting out.

    Strong, When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants to be a better partner. Someone who thinks women should be loyal, not easy and trustable. Someone who values her fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do her share in the home. These women exist and, trust me, over time, nothing is sexier.” [Chaderly Thunderberg]

    LMAO. Just shorten it to: “When settling down, find a young, cute virgin.”

  14. @Andy October 10th, 2015 at 2:36 pm

    “Fair enough. Not sure how realistic your expectations might be, but everything is relative I guess.”

    Heheh. Andy, that’s all you got to say?

    Don’t take your ball and go home. We enjoy your input. And I’m not just shit testing you. I’m sincere.

  15. @ Snowdensjackettoxoxo

    I never said I wanted to get married in the first place. As a sollicitor, I know all too well how money matters turn people into unrelenting fiends. I do not intend to get into this bag of problems. The trick to avoid the plight of marriage is to date liberal-romantic-dreamy women, they do not give a toss about marriage, for them it is but a means to submit the woman. Who said feminism had no bright side ?

    Regarding reproduction I stand by what I said. I, as a living creature, have no other purpose but disseminate myself on this planet. This is not me speaking here, it is Darwin. If a female accepts to give me a kid, then I pass the filter of natural selection. I would indeed consider my biological ( not spiritual ) purpose to be done with once I get a kid.

    This does not mean I would not take care of this kid, I want to be a good father and provide this kid what he needs in life, but if the fit hit the shan and I lose the woman I love and my offspring this would be my solace.

  16. @Philalethes: Your search term for the day is “microchimerism”.

    Here’s a video by a MGTOW cellular biologist going into it. It’s a bit of a rambling answering viewer questions video, so if you want to get right to it start at about 9:20 in.

  17. @mdavid: “Not true. Women are quite harsh and bitter against promiscuous women . . .”

    How women behave within the circle is not the same as how they behave toward men.

    Just as members of a sports team might hate each other’s guts, yet still come together to beat the opposing team.

  18. Great post as usual Rollo. As a man in my mid 20’s who was enlightened the past couple of years, I can’t thank you enough for the insight that you have given me.

    Back on topic, I’m guessing around 10-15% of girls in their 20’s are virgins; depending on ethnicity, religion, and other factors. ATTRACTIVE girls that are still virgins in their 20s would probably be close to 1-2%. By 25 years old I’m guessing it’s closer to 0.5%. It really depends on lots of factors. Then again this is all anecdotal and I’m sure I can dig up stats somewhere, but I still think its possible for a man to find a younger woman who has still retained some semblance of innocence.

    Western culture on a whole has pretty much destroyed all remnants of traditional dating and courtship. Anyways, here’s a neat graph that relates to vetting, and where people usually meet girls; then and now.

  19. Key in the vetting is to avoid “leading the witness.” Remain non judgemental about as much as we can to build comfort so she will relax and reveal more true colors. “So, are you a slut?” gets us the politically correct but unreliable answer: “Not me!” But: “I once had an interesting neighbor who seemed to have a new man visiting weekly. Musta been a lot of fun.” Then shut up and pay attention to all her responses – words, tone, facial/body language, etc. Yes, awalt, and never stop leading, but there are female humans who recognize the value of personal impulse control. Young Andy Thundercock may be sufficiently distracted by his unearned successes that he never has reason to consider what is required for the clearly more challenging path of family formation.

  20. @Hux. “Putting myself in their shoes I understand that, what would you do if you, a man, became reproductively impotent by the age of 25-26 ? I know I would frantically search my soulmate or at least someone to carry my seed.”

    Not sure what species you are speaking of, but human women are not impotent at 26.

    The rest of your comment is even more assume. “Give a woman a nest and she’ll be happy”. Really? How many unhappy, dead bedrooms are there in nests bought and paid for by men? A lot.

    “Once you get a kid you are done with your biological function. Even if you cannot take care of the child, even if it gets ugly after divorce and you endure some hardships, you are fine with Darwin. Your life, as a living creature, is fulfilled.”

    Join a sperm bank moron. You may be a lurker but you’re not a good one. If your a solicitor, God have mercy on your clients.

  21. Feminism – the quibbling over mutual respect and or reciprocal appreciation have always been part of the sexual social dynamic between the sexes.

    Human life follows a process as any other life form. We are born, grow and develop through childhood and adolescence, reach sexual maturity, mate reproduce, raise our progeny, live awhile longer, age out and die. This natural biological, physiological process follows its own natural timeline coinciding with natural development and decline of the human organisim. Natural hormonal flow and ebb, physical health and optimal physiological state as well as intellectual perspectives also follow a natural optimally evolved schedule…..unless that timeline is altered and the schedule is altered.

    I believe our (men’s AND women’s) frustration concerning social sexual dynamics is most acute and severe today due to the natural evolved process being altered. Our attitudes, hopes, fears, and respective sexual imperatives have always been with us. However I believe, our current state of mutual distrust and malevolence between the genders has not always existed. So, the question is what altered the process? Could the alteration be a change in the schedule and if so, what caused that schedule change?

    Widely available, inexpensive, highly effective, almost risk free, easily administered contraception. Let us be honest about what we really want and why birth control was invented. Contraception exists because humans love to fuck and do not always desire fuckings consequence i.e. pregnancy. It is not just for “birth control”. Who are we fooling? It is specifically for BIRTH FREE FUCKING. If they were marketed with any overt honesty, they would be labeled BIRTH FREE FUCKING PILLS.

    My point is, the only real change that has occurred over millennia is the introduction of contraception. Our physiological state as well as our emotions have remained the same for perhaps 200,000 years. They could not be the facilitators of this shift toward such an advisarial condition, unless by some random chance we suddenly started to process them differently or we got bored with a more complimentary relationship. What has changed in the dynamic is the tangible physiological real introduction of contraception into the human life process on a mass scale. Wouldn’t such an interruption in the natural evolved process have profound effects upon our sexuality Including our expectations and emotional reactions regarding sex? Would it have been rational to predict those effects would be both desirable, AND undesirable?

    If you like the idea that young sexually attractive sexually available women will not get pregnet if you fuck them, then why would you expect other males to not like it also, or not also peruse fucking them? Women like fucking just as much as men (don’t fool yourself on this). Why would any woman on birth control not want to optimize her enjoyment of sex? Especially when birth control and her choice to use it facilitates that enjoyment without the consequence of pregnancy…and was intended, designed and produced to ensure opportunity of that enjoyment. Why would you expect to be able to better control her sexuality? Is it not blatantly obvious that pregnancy, child bearing and motherhood are far more controlling than any concocted “game” bullshit could ever be? Why would her expression and indulgence of her sexuality which also facilitates your sexual satisfaction be a bad thing….unless you wish to control her sexuality for your exclusive benefit? Should we legislate restricting birth control to prostitutes only?

    We cannot “have everything”. Our limited existence does not afford unlimited choice and all decisions have both intended and unintended consequences.

  22. I was gonna say that if you asked her. She’d probably lie and therefore a man can’t really know but you sort of addressed that.
    So, my question then is what are good covert ways to getting at the truth especially for those of still struggling to get past our blue pill past? What kinds of questions should we ask or what kinds of subtle disclosures should we be on the lookout for?

  23. @kfg: Your search term for the day is “microchimerism”.

    Thanks much, very interesting. “A 2012 study at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, Seattle, has detected cells with the Y chromosome in multiple areas of the brains of deceased women.” (Wikipedia) Hmmm.

    It’s all far more complex than anybody has yet imagined.

  24. Vetting.
    The difficult :
    Her Mom and Dad.
    Her brothers and sisters.
    The neighborhood.
    Her friends.
    Her travel history.

    The easy :
    Her Facebook history (since 2005).
    Her Twitter history.
    Her selfie history.
    Her texts.
    Her IP addresses history (?).
    Be like an insurance agent.
    Ps,
    Me, a cynic!

  25. @Dan Horton

    That link is hilarious.

    Rollo’s right about the past of the female matters. For good looking women this is critical. The better looking the girl, then the more opportunities she has for short term guys. A fattie SJW ain’t gonna be a guest at the local orgy party.

  26. Larry Correia and Brad Torgersen started the “Sad Puppies” movement. Vox Day along with his compatriots started the “Rabid Puppies.” I am am starting a new movement. The “Hungry Wolves” movement. Don’t play by their rules, don’t try and beat them at their own game. Don’t play checkers with somebody who can’t play chess just so you can make them look stupid in order to get more views for your webpage or customers for your books. Fuck ’em. Strategically edit them out of the equation completely. That is how we win. Don’t just “beat them at their own game.” CHANGE THE GAME. This isn’t about Science Fiction, it isn’t about video-games, it isn’t about getting laid. This is about nothing less than the future of western civilization.

  27. Man, fuck AA. Day gaming today and had like 5 warm sets within an hour, some of them solo. Cute girl with a camera isolated herself from her party and kept ending up wherever I was, stood right next to me a few times w/ no-one around.

    Not. A. Single. Approach.

    I walk around with ten thousand kilos of swagger, have deadly eye contact, throw me in a set and I’m golden. WTF. Need a good wing with balls to kick me in the ass a few times to get used to it, or something. Dunno what my deal is.

    At least the festival was cool.

  28. You hit the nail on the head with this piece. To be fair, I have always been good with women. I have had a better than average understanding about women due to my Red Pill upbringing. I thank my father for that. I don’t say that to brag or boast. Nor do I say that to try and proclaim my self some sort of ladies man.

    In fact I say it only to illustrate just how much knowledge your articles contain. The fact I find myself learning more and more from your website is a admission of just how in-depth and knowledgeable your site is. You state undeniable facts in a way that anyone of average intellect can undrstand. I still workout regularly. As a result, I have alot of young men in their mid twenties in my social circle. This younger generation is far more locked on to the realities of sexual dynamics than our Generation was. With social media, they can see their female peers in the raw. At the club grinding on various cock, etc. I think these tools have opened their eyes. (I am way closer to 40 than I am 35 lol) Great work, and a big thanx to you for having the courage to speak the truth.

  29. I remember you saying Rollo that your wife had some ‘previous sexual experience’. I’m also pretty damn sure that you said that a woman having had previous sexual experience wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. So – how did you vet her, then? What did you look into – and what did you ultimately decide to marry her?

  30. Travis, “Rollo has gotten a lot of mileage out of that Sandberg quote.”

    That Sandberg quote, is the MANIFESTO of alpha fux/beta bucks.
    Rollo is quite right to use it for another 50 years.

  31. Posted this in the last thread by mistake.

    You know what I tell my boys? All women are crazy, the trick is to find the brand of crazy you can deal with. In RP terms, AWALT but to varying degrees. When it comes to LTR/Marriage, there are valid reasons to pursue them. Maybe not for you, and probably not for me in the future, but the most obvious is children.

    There are no unicorns or “quality women”. There are women. Of course AWALT, but as I said to different degrees individually. So vetting a LTR prospect isn’t about finding a unicorn, its about finding the right brand of crazy. Basically, knowing all women are hypergamous, it starts with figuring out to what degree. If she’s over the top “looking for the better deal” NEXT. This is where her past comes into play. If she hasn’t had much bounce house time under her belt, step two is finding out what her triggers are. In short, you gotta figure out if your strengths play to her hypergamous impulses. If she tends to go for macho guys and you are the intelligent type, NEXT. (unless you want the challenge…) Third, start laying out how any relationship with you will go. Her reaction determines if you start investing or NEXT.

    In short: you find a woman who’s hypergamy is most satisfied by your strengths and/or traits you can become strong in AND are willing to work on. Then roll the dice. Of course the rub is, the entire time you’re married the dice are still tumbling. IF you do it right, you don’t live to see the end result, unless she kicks the bucket first.

    Of course for guys that find RP after they are already married, its a very tough battle. This is where the “better to start new” advice comes from. I’d say it depends on just how badly the guy chose in his blue pill haze, how willing he is to step up the traits he needs to trigger his wife’s attraction, and if he feels its worth the effort. To me the only reason its worth it is for children, but that would depend on just how much effort it would take, and exactly what traits I was lacking. Ideally a man should improve for himself, but in the case of saving a shitty marriage sometimes it requires working on a few things that really don’t seem important just to get the correct response from the wife. Yeah, I know. You don’t have to say it: a man should ALWAYS improve for himself. However, if having his marriage last and stay strong RATHER than start over is his goal, then he is doing what it takes to reach it.

    Every man has to decide on his own if its all worth it.

  32. You can tease out an approximation of a girl’s knob count. A couple weeks ago I got this 27 year old to offer her number, which was 12.

    I was immediately turned off and contemplated the possibility of a hard Next for a few minutes, before I actually detonated the whole thing.

    I told her I can never be with a girl with such a sordid past, and she countered with the notion that her sexual past made her the best she can be….For me! I was genuinely disgusted.

    My buddy gave me a hard time for this because I was “throwing away” pussy, but I simply cannot connect with a girl whom makes sport of dick licking.

    In general now I’m having a hard time dealing with sluts compared to my past where I hardly cared so long as I conquered my object of lust. The thing is I want a son, so I’m ruthlessly vetting and any infraction is a cause to eject.

    If at any point a girl mouths feminist horseshit I rhetorically kick her in the tits before I disappear, like the slut cited above. If she’s a garden variety slatern I quietly fade to black after I’ve had my fun.

    But it’s somewhat depressing. As any redpill man in the dating market knows, these sluts are legion. Untainted women are simply at a premium.

  33. Wasn’t the point of the original comment esentially:

    Good luck finding a girl of legal age and decent attractiveness that doesn’t already have at least 5 sexual partners?

    I think the question is one of practicality, not of idealistic standards. We all know that the fewer partners the better, but do those girls even exist anymore?

  34. Try her ‘diary’ or any personal momentos – if they’re young enough, which they should be, they will have.

    Came across my ex’s – had 19 guy names…I’m reading the names (hey, there’s me!). There was one titled “one night stand”.

    She’s 22. Par for the course these days.

  35. My bad triple posting, though as McQueen states, if you truly wish to wife up a broad – pay a P.I. to follow her around for at least a week. Get a player buddy she doesn’t know have hit on her..

  36. If in 2015 you still want to marry,even after reading a blog that puts the secret right to your fucking eyes,…….

    If she’s not my past and only,I won’t marry her,all this
    crap is red pill rationalisation. There’s no such thing as a low notch count.One ass-fuck is still one ass-fuck.
    If you’re that desperate to marry,you could horde money and book one Muslim’s daughter in some middle-eastern country.I personally think Rollo is trying to save face coz he married a woman with a “low notch count”.

  37. A woman (who was 29 at that time) that I used to see years ago had the +300 men names she had sex with written in a diary, with anotations and numerical marks on looks, clothes, penis size, general performance, etc. While I was browsing in that recently discovered diary with my eyes wide open, I saw noticed my name written on it.

    Despite the review she gave me was in fact quite good I realize I was not the best lol. I must say I didn’t feel really attracted to that woman, and I know that not being the best of 300 is not a big deal anyway. I am not going to do the maths but chances were not on my side with +300 rivals after all. Also, I never asked her about her past and I always considered myself a non-judgmental person. Although, I couldn’t help but feeling like crap.

    There are several taboos, mostly imposed by women (the true moral guardians in every time and place in history, despite what every “patriarchy theory” say, don’t be fooled), that we are not allowed to talk or think about. But the truth is, when we are not consciuous about what can hurt us the pain and harm that taboo can do us is even worst. Because you are not critically filtering that information, you are putting the blame on you for feeling bad, you are changing your beliefs and your self image. I guess that’s what is behind the Stockholm syndrome that many white knights, male feminists and cuckold fetishists exhibit.

    You can ignore the fact, rationalize it, show your best poker face to the world and say out loud “I am an alpha man and I don’t care about a woman sexual past”. But deep inside you, you know it: If you are not the best for the woman you are with, you will feel bad about it.

    So what can we do? We have 2 options:

    1 – Do not attach, the less I “connect” with a woman, the less I care.
    2 – Do not be afraid of having standards. Meanwhile return to option 1.

    And maybe a third, for the mgtows out there: it is better to be alone that being with someone that makes you unable to look yourself in the mirror everyday. Being alone is not easy but sometimes is the lesser evil. Of course it is.

    pd: sorry about my english, it is not my mother language.

  38. @dexteranddeedee

    I personally think Rollo is trying to save face coz he married a woman with a “low notch count”

    Which is why he goes to great pains to make it clear that if he suddenly found himself not married tomorrow, he wouldn’t do it again. Clearly you’re on to something here.

  39. It seems we have a catch 22 at work here.

    On one hand, the rational response would be to never commit to a woman ever and perpetually plate spin given the high N count of most women .If we are honest, this philosophy is only going to work for a limited number of men . Reality of things are that we live in a matriarchy, which means even average fat women have more options then any of us will ever. Saying the deck is stacked against us in the SMV marketplace is a major understatement.

    As such , if you’re a typical 5’8″ guy with a typical middle class job and a typical body type and facial construction, fugediboutit. Why should a typical HB even interact with a guy like that when ten Brad Pitt copies reside in her Tinder que?

    For the Average Guys, powerful game isn’t a means for mass picking up girls; its a necessary tool they have to use just to get out of Neutral in the interaction. For them the LTR route is sometimes the only way forward; if they try “Alpha ” strategy she’s gone for literally bigger and better and he’s back to Square One chasing tail for months before getting another girl, who then does the same thing by embargoing sex in exchange for commitment.
    Naysayers should note that we won’t hear the times a gaming guy /PUA got assertive with a female and she shut him down with ” no commitment ,no sex. O you don’t do relationships? Kthnxbye “, but I bet it happens a lot more often then we’d think glossing over various comment sections.

    Flip the script; if we lived in a hardcore Patriarchy where hot SMV9 and 10 women literally stacked up in your Tinder inbox begging for a chance to blow you, the SMV 8 down the hall of your condo building wouldn’t even cross your mind unless she brought the noise in the kitchen AND the bedroom. Otherwise , you’d be like ” see ya later”.

  40. Of course it makes sense to listen to your women telling you about herself and they like to do as Rollo says. The more she trusts you (because you give a shit), the more she’ll tell you. And if you get close or past her past alpha-experiences, her emotional treasures, she will remember those, compare and tell you about it, at least if you passed. I’m tempted to believe if she doesn’t tell you something about it, it’s the worse sign, because then you lost to her past but she doesn’t want to tell you of course.

    I lost any faith in “Quality Women”, low N-count, background, when my best looking sister separated from her husband and father of her child. My sister was from a very tradcon (catholic) background, were almost all the women have a N-count of 1, there never was any divorce in the extended family and my sister was a HB9 virgin of 24 years when she met her husband. He was a very successful manager in some international company, well made man, in shape, fluent in dealing with the countless fights for power in big corporations and a very masculine and inaccessible behavior towards men and also various LTR’s before her and at least dominant with women – but BluePill and lacking game and emotional diversity. My sister was “missing passion” and didn’t want this “to be all the sex she had in her life”.

    Rollo’s link is probably this: https://therationalmale.com/2015/03/16/making-up-for-missing-out/

    And my conclusion is: get your game together and take the challenge to out-alpha both any past alpha and any potential future alpha, nothing else works.

  41. I remember in college a girl I was hooking up with joked with me one night that I was #69. Naturally the number of the sexual position was funny to her.

    That was my 1sr experience with knowing a woman with a high number. I didn’t want to date her then. It was a weird experience. I knew a girl who once got an abortion and she hit on me. I didn’t do anything with her because I wasn’t attracted after knowing that.

    I think we are hard wired not to pair bond with high volume women. She can’t be loyal. I also found the abortion girl with a thought of she will kill a child, so maybe subconsciously maybe my body was telling me she would kill my seed. It could be an evolutionary hard wiring for me to choose the strongest mother for heirs.

    What I also find interesting is I’ve noticed women with really high levels of promiscuity tend to lose their femininity. Has anybody else noticed that?

  42. Today’s Dear Abby has the modern FI marriage in betaville:

    DEAR ABBY: I have been with my husband, “Elliot,” for six years, married for two. We’re financially stable and have great, supportive families.
    One of our biggest issues is that Elliot needs to be emotionally coddled, and I give in to it. It’s taxing to be the strong one all the time, and the result is I don’t feel as attracted to him. He complains that I’m “not fun” anymore or that I’m a “prude.”

    Now that I’m pregnant, things have gotten worse. I expected to be treated like a pregnant goddess, but Elliot feels no emotional attachment to our baby and is afraid of becoming a father. I find it hard to deal with because we planned this pregnancy.

    We have been fighting a lot lately, and while he was out, I read his journal. It stated that he knows he doesn’t love his wife anymore. Since that day I have been a wreck, but I have been unable to talk to him about it.

    Every morning he tells me he loves me. Now I ask him, “Are you sure?” to which he replies, “Of course!” Is he lying? Should I confront him about the journal entry even though I invaded his privacy? — PREGNANT GODDESS IN PHILADELPHIA

  43. I wonder if we are tredding close to developeing superstitions with regard to vetting. I’m using the definition from psychology, in that people have a tendancy to formulate beliefs to explain things when there isn’t enough data to form a real patern.

    With todays high N count women, I don’t know that the sample size of low N count women is statistically significant anymore.

    I feel bad for todays young man that wants to have a family. You might get lucky and find a low N woman. Or you might find a deceptive little psychopath that is amazingly good at fooling you.

    One rule I’ve seen in the sphere that seems to be accurate is that the crazies can only keep it up for 6 months to a year. Minimally, you would have to LTR a girl for at least that long before even considering taking it further. These stories where some dude is proposing after dating a girl for 2 months are just so tragic. I just have to walk away when I see that sort of thing playing out these days.

  44. @SD: Flipping the script wouldn’t amount to a Patriarchy at all.

    In any case, Gedankenexperiment: What do you guys think would the world be like if men stopped being capable of producing sperm at 42? How would ‘Alpha’ be different?

  45. @bnon

    All of our biological urges are geared toward reproduction. If became infernal at 42, we would likely loose attractiveness as well.

    But in the end, that isn’t how it works. All of this stuff should be viewed amorally. I think all judgements being made are simply being made from the standpoint of what is going to work best for us as individuals.

    Women with high N counts should be avoided. Not because of some moral judgement, but because they are likely to take the piss out of us, given the current fem-centric legal and social environment.

  46. I get all of this and don’t disagree for those of you looking to get married. Unicorn hunting is indeed your lot in this life. But do the rest of us a favor, please: Stop whining that there are so few unicorns, okay? You are the one’s headed off on a unicorn hunt – it’s not the only path available to you. Have you all forgotten that the unicorn of fables doesn’t exist, that by definition the unicorn is chimerical?

    One could also look at marriage objectively and decide whether that makes sense at all for you. One could carefully consider if monogamy makes any sense at all for one’s self, given an honest self-appraisal of one’s actual appetites and desires. For me, stripped of my Blue Pill lenses, and bereft after 50 years of supplicating myself to women for the decreasing number of crumbs they deigned to fling my way after I dedicated myself to loving and supporting them for my entire life, I woke the fuck up.

    Marry a woman? In 2015? Are you a fucking masochist? I may do an LTR and that option is looking more possible for me these days. I’m switching preferences to more mature women for that as I believe that will work best. But I in no way intend to move some woman in or play Dad to some other guy’s kids or stop fucking every woman I care to.

    Women have blown it – my chivalric sense is utterly gone. Women are off the pedestal and more often then not I’m noticing how I gave their motivations and behavior far too much credit in the past. I internalized their behavior towards me as meaningful and made their evaluation of me WHO I WAS IN MY OWN EYES. That’s what Rollo means by the FI, the insidious aspect of it is what men have internalized from them and HOW WE VIEW OURSELVES.

    Let me ask a straight question to all you unicorn hunters here: Do you really want to fight so hard to sign up for a contract that has at least 50% chance of ending in dissolution? Remember – you are betting your fucking life in this contract. If so, why wouldn’t you do so on a coin flip then? What, are you so convinced of your Uber-Alphaness that you believe you will never have a setback? That you will never be overwhelmed by life? That you possess no weaknesses, only strengths? Are you so arrogant and delusional that you cannot see the random factors you are up against? What if you get cancer? Or any serious disease? Fyi, this was my wakeup call – when I got sick after a life of natural alphaness, women fled me like the proverbial rats from a sinking ship. And some were downright nasty about it.

    What about when you wife meets a higher value alpha-dog? That’s not an if, that’s a when – there is always a higher value guy out their fellas. Really. I’ll tell you straight up – it never once occurred to me that my ex would ever fuck around on me while we were married. But remember – I married the prom-queen/homecoming queen, and actual HB9.5. Her opportunities were legion – she got high value dick thrown at her all day long. In a culture that didn’t offer a bit of shame for “upgrading” – which she later told me she regretted as she knows we would have had a better life together than she had apart from me – she had huge temptations. It was like what that politician said about preventing terrorist attacks – “we have to be right every time, but a terrorist only has to be right once”. Same thing with you, alpha-dog, you have to on 24/7 and always your best – and even then superior guys will offer themselves up. But hey, I know – you guys will just overcome the popular culture, our politics, our educational system, our government and the fucking sisterhood itself.

    Also remember that if you do dodge the “frivorce” bullet, that doesn’t mean you are happy. I know very few men who are happily married. The only ones I do know are those who cheat whenever they can and they do get caught sometimes. But for the most part, marriage for a man today is nothing like it once was. You are expected to be a man and a woman in today’s marriage culture, “doing your share” isn’t just something you are going to hear on TV. Your status and authority as provider, protector and father will be greatly diminished and at times laughed at or openly denigrated. You will be looked at as betraying your family for being successful and focusing on building wealth or a business – while your kids go to universities that cost 50k a year.

    My point is simple. Don’t embark on the unicorn hunt in the first place. Focus on yourself and fuck as many women as you want. Let the “quality” ones show themselves to you. Let them display submission. Let them demonstrate how they revel in your frame. Have them bring friends into your bed with you. Make it clear that you are highly sexual and have appetites that range beyond her – from the fucking outset.

    Build your life into something you love and then see if a woman will fit herself into it. For me now, the most important thing for an LTR is whether the woman submits to my dominance or not. Her submission and the completeness of it is a demonstration of my perceived value to her, my alphaness to her. If she finds another, oh well, happy trails and don’t be a stranger. When that distraction is over, oftentimes a woman will circle back 🙂

    For you guys already married, I get it, you have to make lemonade from your lemons because and also that some small number of you are actually happy. I do realize there are fundo-christian-demi-god-alpha-males-of-epic-proportions™ here that chaste, nubile, fecund Christian women are forever moistened by, so no worries, I’m not talking to you guys. I’m talking to the other 99% of men who live in the fucking real world. So just ignore my observations and continue as you were – wait, it’s Sunday so you guys are at church anyway. This comment is for the rest of us…

  47. @Forge – That is the spirit, buddy. I bet you had a lot more fun at that festival demonstrating high value and evaluating interest than spending a day unicorn hunting, yes? A high value male in his prime, being who he is naturally is like catnip in today’s world.

    Also worth noting that you are not in a bar. Many guys reduce pick up to bars – I cannot do bar pickup for the most part at my age. I do sarge at bars every week or two with a wingman to sharpen my claws as I still approach and get dialog going almost 100% of the time but interest in me is generally low in that scene so I’m really just there winging and getting practice in. Also note this is effortless for me now, I just start talking to women in bars – my wing is amazed by it. Even though he lowers his chances by having an old fuck like me with him, he says it’s worth it because he learns from me every time. He’s gotten 2 1 night lays in the past months as a result of our work together. If only I was actually 40 still…

    But the point is that bars are very limiting. Go to the farmer’s market, the festival, the park, bowling alley, coffee shop – whatever. Join a non-profit, do some volunteering – non-profits are crawling with women – go to a meetup, whatever. There are a million ways to meet people that don’t involve going to a bar.

  48. Article from a top VC at Andreesen Horowitz and tech zillionaire who sold off his company. https://medium.com/working-parents-in-america/success-at-work-failure-at-home-f1d6f5d8d92f

    Read it and see if it jumps out at you the way it did me. My observations:

    1. He never once takes credit for providing an excellent material life and financial security for his family. This is very common in today’s world – if you are successful financially, it just becomes a given. You aren’t to be thanked or acknowledged. And certainly there will be no allowances made for all the time spent working to create a lotto-winner lifestyle for his family. OMG – he traveled half the time at time. I wonder, does he understand how hard men worked just 150 years ago in agricultural times? 7 days a week was common. Dawn to dusk, a meal, fall asleep in front of the fire and crawl into bed and do it all again – and still maybe you go hungry sometimes. Men going out on hunting trips for days at a time. Bringing crops to market or livestock to sale/slaughter could take days or weeks.

    2. It’s assumed that he and his wife had equal chances at success because she had a Harvard MBA. I wonder, when will these credentialist fucks ever stop waving their degrees around? Entrepreneurship is not a privilege bestowed on the Ivy league, yet he buys into this multi-layered elitism and equalism. I mean, if his wife was such hot shit, why didn’t he stay at home?

    3. It sounds like he is a bit of an asshole. I traveled extensively and had a super high pressure career and still managed to always stay in touch with my daughter when she was young – as a non-custodial Dad. Time set aside for her, sports or whatever – I knew this was important. Many successful men are not this kind of asshole as fathers and husbands, yet his truly narcissistic behavior is presented as some kind of norm. No, dickwad, if you are on a business trip and your wife doesn’t know where you are, that’s not normal. It did happen to me as a divorced guy – people often didn’t know where I was. But my wife? Come on, get real. You are a fucking asshole if you behave this way – so now I’m supposed to learn from an asshole who has turned himself into Mr. Mom to compensate?

    4. “Having it all” – He sounds like a fucking woman. No, Scott, you can’t have it all. Life is about tradeoffs. But one can be successful and not be a completely narcissistic asshole. Women invented the idea of having it all and it’s an idiotic construction from the outset. I wonder how much Scott’s wife jams this up his ass every day? Her suffering as the wife of a tech zillionaire, punished by raising their children? Does it ever occur to either of them that they were morons for assuming they could have children and just keep working? That they shouldn’t have had children if they both planned on making career their number one aspiration? He acts like they were both surprised that they couldn’t both continue on as they were and start a family. Why is this considered revelatory? And why is he the villain and his wife the long suffering heroine?

    What this reveals is what a poor example of a man this guy is. Unfortunately, such narcissistic manginas are as common as peas in my business now. Our entire culture has become a pathetic joke…

  49. @scribblerg,

    It would be great if these dudes could just give up the unicorn hunt, but another unfortunate truth is some of these guys feel a strong pull toward wanting a family. There is simply no good answer for these guys in these times. They either have to suppress the urge for a family, or role the dice and try to bias the results the best they can. Let them lament their circumstances. They have much to figure out.

  50. @Isthisthingon – Or not. I can also try to shock them out of their hypnosis. NEWSFLASH: Being a dad isn’t all that great in many ways these days. It’s best it’s mostly thankless, but for most men they are fathering into a culture that denigrates them, laughs at them and is hagiographic of motherhood. If you think this won’t effect how your children see you as a father, you are fucking kidding yourself.

    I used to ride the train back and forth to the city – leaving my home at 6:30 in the morning and returning at 7:30 or later, wondering if my daughter would ever realize all I sacrificed to provide for her and her mom? I’d wonder if she’d ever get that I sacrificed being as close to her as her mother is to her for her wellbeing? That her closeness with her mom as a result of having a stat at home mom until she was 5 was a consequence of my efforts, not her Mom’s? Guess what – nobody wants to hear it. Nobody gives a shit what sacrifices you make to be a good father and provider – it’s all about Mom. It’s all about the kids. Dad’s are at best seen as second best Moms most of the time. And even when we are “in charge”, we can be dismissed as superfluous in myriad ways. Many men adapt by by becoming second mothers and wives in the household – and the entire culture encourages this. Try being a traditional male at parent teacher night or at the pre-school or even the Boy Scout troop…Fatherhood and a family is not what it once as either. Trust me, learn from my experience. Your kids will very likely not appreciate all you’ve done for them.

    Of course, I excuse all the fundo-christian-demi-god-uber-alpha-ripped-11 inch cock-men of steel™ here from this commentary. For you guys, it’s 1956 and your life is like Wally and the Beav…

  51. Thank you Scribbler, some good Sunday morning inspiration and multiple reminders about so many key things I’m learning. Filling my mental “space” on these concepts and practices DAILY keeps me motivated to march forward into the challenges, shit tests and whatever is thrown my way. Each day I feel more confident and strong knowing what I read here makes damn good logical sense.

    It’s like what Rollo has for his site tagline: Why do my eyes hurt? You’ve never used them. Once your sore gooy eyes are fully opened you can’t close them. If you do it’s suicide or cognitive dissonance leading to insanity.

    A yes vote to editing your post for typos. Lots of WordPress plugins available to enhance the site. Either way Rollo, what you’ve created is awesome. Ever grateful.

  52. and no, i don’t care about typos here. i produce error-free, grammatically sound prose for work and it’s tedious. here i’m just having a conversation. some feel differently, cest la vie…me, can’t spend the time to get it all perfect just for blog commenting. hope that doesn’t piss you guys off too much.

  53. re: typos – I should also reveal that i have a degenerative condition in one eye that makes visual processing of information more difficult for me so editing is very tedious and hard for me. I edit very carefully for my “work” and it feels like a burden when i’m just chilling, commenting here with you guys. so, a little mercy on this count would be appreciated. i do a quick edit of course but i can only catch everything by doing three line edits, which is boring as shit.

  54. Some of your best comments ever ScribblerG. And that is saying a lot because of your previous excellent commentary. I’m not just trying to suck up, either. It’s rational, practical, solid advice and advances the conversation tremendously and is terribly engaging.

    I for one don’t see your comments this morning as being negative either. A man’s capacity to receive another man’s criticism (here the criticism being to “stop searching for unicorns”–which is spot on practical criticism and mainline red pill advice in contrast with society’s blue pill advice to the contrary) reflects on his capacity to be better at being a man. To advance, learn how to adapt, keep stumbling blocks in his life lower than they are and become self actualized. Your advice helps men get up off their asses and not be pussies.

    And the burden of performance is there whether a man likes it or not.

    I think the Scott Weiss article is good. I would’nt him as much as you do for not knowing what he didn’t know then. If some young man would read that, it is advice from an older guy to not make the mistakes he did. Same as the advice you are giving Scribbler. It’s good.

    Weiss ends with an important message. The one to have balance in life. You can’t have a railroad-like two-track path mentality in your endeavors. You have to adapt. The things that made the difference–the things that made life worth living– in my professional career (and certainly in my personal life) were the other learned things that were not part of my job curriculum, nor directly engaged in with others in my personal life. The all other things matter.

    You can’t argue with his conclusion:

    “In retrospect, I believe that I could convince the hardest working CEOs that having some real life balance by investing in your important relationships will make you a better CEO. When you are out of balance, it affects your stress, judgment, and ultimately becomes another destabilizer just when you need to be the most put together. I also believe this change is actually a much better example of leadership than the one I was exuding. When a leader shows the way toward getting things done and balancing their life, it sets a much better example for everyone else in the company who struggle with it too.”

    I also think you are spot on with this:

    What, are you so convinced of your Uber-Alphaness that you believe you will never have a setback? That you will never be overwhelmed by life? That you possess no weaknesses, only strengths? Are you so arrogant and delusional that you cannot see the random factors you are up against? What if you get cancer? Or any serious disease? Fyi, this was my wakeup call – when I got sick after a life of natural alphaness, women fled me like the proverbial rats from a sinking ship. And some were downright nasty about it.

    Roadblocks in life are a 100% given way of life. Hubristic (in the Greek tragedy sense of excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis) is no way to go through life. And that is different than having practical self-confidence, even an irrationally self confident mindset in a red pill awareness and game mindset.

    (P.S., You know I don’t attend Church, right?)

  55. Scribblerg – A man doesn’t necessarily have to want to be a modern “dad” to want children. Its a basic biological drive and the only way to “win” the evolution game. No children means no passing on of lineage/DNA.

    Its easy for me to shrug my shoulders because I already have children. But, one of them is a 16 year old boy that wants to have a family. Today that means either rolling the dice on a LTR with a modern woman, or a small gaggle of baby mammas. The search for a decent woman to father your children with is NOT a unicorn hunt. Its looking through a barrel full of rotten apples to find the least funky fruit. Its a necessity if you intend to have the hope of any control of your children’s life. Baby mama will get you a child, but probably very little actual involvement with it after birth. With a wife, as sad as it is, you still have a slightly better shot of staying involved, even from a legal standpoint.

    So it isn’t just the Jesus Crispy Bible thumpers looking for a woman to have a family with. Its any man that makes passing on his DNA a life priority. Knowing that its NOT likely to be a lifetime commitment up front allows them to use it for their purposes (to have children) and then remove himself from it as cleanly and efficiently as possible if or more likely when it occurs. And as you are learning, with such a plan a guy can do pretty good for himself post divorce in terms of finding female companionship.

  56. I addressed this exact issue here:

    https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-30876-post-598034.html#pid598034

    “It’s definitely true that women will lie about their sexual history—their ability to secure long-term provisioning is a stake so there much incentive for them to be dishonest.

    But in my experience, if you come across non-judgmental and you win a girl’s trust she’ll tell you what you want to know about her history. In obtaining this information, your biggest ally is time. Yes a woman will lie—but no one can lie forever and keep all their lies, backstories and details straight. Like most worthwhile information, the truth about a girl’s sexual history usually cannot be obtained quickly. It takes time to build that trust and really get to know who she is and really get her to open up. And during that time you are also observing her behavior and social interactions as well. Is she an attention whore? How does she react to “slut shaming”? How many of her friends are guys she’s “really close with”? And so on. I will say again: time is your ally and you need to be able to play a long game to get at what you need to know…”

    “The overall point of this post is that it is possible to get the information you want about sexual history straight from the horses’ mouth. You just have to have that timeless quality of every player from Casanova onward: patience. Patience, an understanding of the core human psychology you are trying to tap, your powers of observation, your own authenticity, and a relentless undercurrent of alpha—no woman can withstand this quiet siege indefinitely.”

  57. “Knowing that its NOT likely to be a lifetime commitment up front allows them to use it for their purposes (to have children) and then remove himself from it as cleanly and efficiently as possible if . . . ”

    . . .he keeps his priorities straight and vets legal jurisdictions and lawyers before he even begins vetting women.

  58. “here the criticism being to “stop searching for unicorns””

    I disagree. a man should always go after what he wants. rare commodities command a high cost. some are worth the cost, some not.

    do the math and REALISTICALLY hunt for unicorns. narrow your search to the range most likely to produce results. accept the fact that outliers don’t exist.

    she will be very young. she will have a very low count. she will make everything easy. she will smile a lot. laugh a lot. suck your cock a lot. it will be obvious that you are the most important person in her life.

    finding her is much harder than keeping her.

    her (plating my dinner that took her two hours to make): almost time.

    me: you suck at plating. you’re too slow.

    she serves my plate, goes off into another room to cry. comes back, eats, doesn’t say a word. we have a lovely evening.

    next morning in bed. starts rubbing my cock.

    me: suck it.

    her: slowly? because I know I’m too slow and you don’t like it.

    me: shut up.

    nice long bj as usual.

    most guys would have been thrilled to get the meal I did. Hell, I was thrilled. but instead of saying thanks I criticized not just her actions but her character and made her cry.

    next morning she makes a joke about it and then swallows my load.

    i post her words verbatim because awalt. if she responds all women will.

    this morning. she’s on top. I bite her neck, hard. then I smack her ass on both cheeks, hard.

    her: you’re so violent.

    I bang away even harder.

    her (15 sec later): i’m so wet.

    huge orgasm.

    her: i felt that in the tops of my feet.

    me: shut up.

    if a unicorn is what you want then you have to make her. i forget the exact quote or who said it but it’s something like;

    “i only understand what I make”

    always go after what you want. and like they say in that business of show, “nobody knows anything”

  59. KFG – “. . .he keeps his priorities straight and vets legal jurisdictions and lawyers before he even begins vetting women.”

    Yep. Ideally a man should be looking into that in late college so they can plan to relocate to a less man-hating legal jurisdiction after graduation and get to work. This also means its great practice to start hunting in college, but completely unrealistic to believe you’ll find the future mother of your children before the age of 25. (unless you are in a small college in a more traditional town, and find a woman willing to move anywhere you need to for your career. Then don’t marry until AFTER you move there and settle in.) More likely marriage should be completely off the table until the age of 30. Which means: the women you are choosing from have had a few years to a decade of romping around under their belt. Hence all this discussion of vetting. ALL of them have some experience. Most of them haven’t had threesomes and Spring Break sex in Cancun…

  60. I don’t think the debate about whether to get married or not or the debate about waiting for a unicorn is practical. (That is different than pointing out that a unicorn is chimeric. A unicorn is chimeric).

    The topic of marriage being a goal was well expressed in

    https://therationalmale.com/2013/08/29/as-good-as-it-gets/

    Rollo: ‘As I stated in Fidelity, I’m not anti-marriage, I’m anti- uninformed, pollyanna, shoulda’-saw-it-coming, ONEitis fueled, shame induced, bound for bankruptcy, scarred my children for life, hypergamy’s a bitch, marriage.

    So, what is important is not having pre-conceived notions about what your completion in life is going to be. There isn’t going to be a completion in your life as a man.

    So be better at being a man, have your eyes wide open and develop mastery in a variety of things. Move on in your life with your purpose and as much freedom from constraint as possible.

    “Every man knows that his highest purpose in life cannot be reduced to any particular relationship. If a man prioritizes his relationship over his highest purpose, he weakens himself, dis-serves the universe, and cheats his woman of an authentic man who can offer her full, undivided presence.” –Deida

    Cultivate your self to have Rollo’s definition of true power. (“Real Power is the degree to which a person has control over their own circumstances. Real Power is the degree to which we control the directions of our lives.”)

    Red pill awareness and game concepts are fungible (mutually interchangeable) in a ONS, STR or LTR. A man writes his own prescription. A prescription doesn’t always work. Sometimes you got to flush the medicine and move on. Sometimes it works great. Sometimes you have to layer on other prescriptions.

    If you say to me “that is easy for you to say”. You’re right. It is.

  61. @Fleezer

    “here the criticism being to “stop searching for unicorns””
    I disagree. a man should always go after what he wants. rare commodities command a high cost. some are worth the cost, some not.
    do the math and REALISTICALLY hunt for unicorns. narrow your search to the range most likely to produce results. accept the fact that outliers don’t exist.
    she will be very young. she will have a very low count. she will make everything easy. she will smile a lot. laugh a lot. suck your cock a lot. it will be obvious that you are the most important person in her life.
    finding her is much harder than keeping her.

    I don’t disagree if your premise is in the figurative sense of unicorn. If you are talking a literal unicorn it ain’t going to happen.

    It is important for a man to not “settle” for less than what he perceives is the best he can get. His figurative unicorn. A guy with a low SMV and low MMV (if marriage is his prescription for himself) is certainly at a disadvantage. And there is something he can do about it. And he shouldn’t put off what he can do about it for too long in his life.

    “if a unicorn is what you want then you have to make her. I forget the exact quote or who said it but it’s something like:

    “I only understand what I make”

    always go after what you want.”

    Well said. I will cosign that.

  62. @Fleezer – Good for you. One question for you. How many unicorns do you think there are? How many men here are capable of locking one down?

    As for you, how long do you think she’ll be impervious to a culture that is telling her your relationship is sick and abusive? Or what if you get sick? What if you get in an accident and are injured? Have a downturn in your fortunes? Or what if an even more alpha guy moves in next door and smacks that ass while you are at work? You don’t think she’ll respond? Do you actually think you are special to any woman? The entire point of hypergamy is that you are just her best option currently, but she always has the social right to upgrade from you.

    Fyi, you also act like an asshole towards her – I don’t get off on making nasty statements to the women I’m with and making them cry after cooking me dinner for 2 hours. I get it – you do. But you may not be aware what this says about your character and your place as a role model for many of us.

    I’ll put a bitch in her place when she’s out of line but what you describe is something a whole lot more awful than that, and my guess is you don’t even get that. It’s come through in other comments you’ve made too. No need to a nasty asshole to dominate a woman. But hey, keep it up, apparently it “works” for you. Fyi, you could achieve the same thing by reading a book as she plates the meal and ignoring when she’s done. She won’t go cry in the next room though…

  63. “I only understand what I make”

    Its been said here many times that you have to train a woman to be a good wife. THIS is the meaning. The purpose of vetting is to find a woman you can train WITHOUT ridiculous amounts of effort on your part AND is likely to be trainable. If you need an apple for your dinner plans, you pick the least rotten one out of the barrel you have to choose from, and integrate it into your recipe.

    We talk here about how women use men for provisioning as part of their plan. So, men can do exactly the same thing. If having children is important and you want to have a say in raising them, plan accordingly. Laws in the US are changing, and the more men that use it to their advantage, the more the entire process steamrolls. I don’t preach this shit because frankly if I was a 20-something guy seeing all this, I don’t think I’d volunteer. I don’t blame any man that says fuck it. But, if you really want kids, and you really feel that a LTR is the best route, treat it as a business decision in terms of risk assessment and disaster recovery plan.

    Not very romantic, but we know that women are far more practical than even this cursory level of strategy, and how many of use stepped up blindly for it?

  64. re: Having kids

    I think black men have broken the code on this culturally. Bang as many out as you can and move on, pay the bill but don’t sign up for the bullshit of marriage. Have a harem of baby mommas who compete for your attention and affections. I’ve not yet seen a monogamous white man who’s approach to marriage impresses me. Mostly what I see are entitled bitches making hell of many excellent men’s lives – and more than a few alpha dog kind of guys are part of that group.

    We white men have to start really re-evaluating our investment in a society that denigrates us and shits on every role we play in society. There is no gratitude for it, little payoff and a ton of misery. I know, that’s a hard lesson to learn. I had to learn it the very hard way, after an adult child just turning on me – it turns out shitting on Dad’s is a national past time and nobody cares. Nobody. You think you’re going to have this great adult relationship with your child? Guess again. When my daughter was 11, people would comment incessantly about how amazing and close our relationship was. It was a known fact that we were exceedingly close. Her Mom and society fucked that all up. Back then, the thought that we wouldn’t be close when she was an adult was unthinkable, unimaginable.

    You are disposable as a man and husband and father in this society. Proceed at your own risk. Just sayin’…

  65. Problem with the baby mama approach is it leads to thuggery. No father means boys with no guidance of any kind.

    RP can’t be top down, it just won’t work. Individuals can affect change in their realm of influence. If the goal is to simply pass on DNA, baby mama is probably the most efficient route. You may even get to be involved with the kid if you play your cards right. If you want the chance to actually shape your children, you can’t do it if you aren’t there.

    There’s no doubt its a thankless burden. You may find that even your own children don’t give a shit about the sacrifices you made. Thing is, you don’t do it for the glory. You do it because it is your goal. If you manage to raise a healthy functioning adult that hates your guts, chalk it up as a win. If you manage all that AND they still love and respect you? You hit the jackpot.

    Having random children with random women is passing on DNA. Having children with a single woman that you invest in to raise healthy people is a different goal entirely. If my goal is to give my children the best shot at success, however they define that, I need to be there to guide them, and at the same time help them to be smart enough to figure it out on their own. Lord knows I wouldn’t want anyone to follow my fucked up path.

  66. @Teddij4g “Problem with the baby mama approach is it leads to thuggery. No father means boys with no guidance of any kind.
    RP can’t be top down, it just won’t work. Individuals can affect change in their realm of influence..”

    Disagree. The realm of influence of most Dads today is zero. Whether you’re in the relationship or not. A lot of guys think sticking around for the kids is proper and that they can make a difference . As the product of a single mom-turned traditional family , I’ll just dispel that notion right now.

    Moms-everywhere-are in concept single parents no matter their marital status. Dad has the same authority in the marriage household as he does paying a child support check from the other side of the country: zero. If dad tries to teach his kids proper manners , Mom and society go behind his back to undermine them.

    Thats not universal, to be sure, but its common enough that if I knock up a plate , I’ll sit down and hash out a support contract just like I’d negotiate to buy a car. If I’m on the hook to pay up either way, I may as well dispense with the masochistic illusion that’s modern day fatherhood.

  67. ” If she doesn’t enter his Frame, to his satisfaction, he moves on to the next prospect with very little communication.”

    Words every man, esp RP men, should internalise and live by….

  68. I think one should make the women cry from time to time. On as many different ways as possible probably. It’s a game: to what extremes can you push her feelz? I like it when they cry.

  69. @Travis

    “Rollo has gotten a lot of mileage out of that Sandberg quote.”

    True and rightly so. However, Sandbergs urge to women is overreaching and indicative of a failing imperative. Why else would she make such statements unless in reality women aren’t actually capatilizing upon that imperititive to the extent Sandberb and others like her prefer? No such call to action is ever made without a present lack of that action or at least the perception of lack. Sandberg calls women to exercise open hypergamy precisely because Sandberg perceives a lack of it, or at least not enough of it to satisfy her expectations. One must ask what is Sandbergs intent? Is she intending to help women or is she intending to injure men?

    Does she intend to ultimately injure both?

    In my last comment, I explained the truth about birth control pills by pointing out that they are not primarily intended to stop births. Stopping births is only the secondary intent of birth control. The primary intent is to enable FUCKING – BIRTH FREE. This is the irrefutable fact concerning the purpose of birth control pills and what they really are. I also suggested that primarily all our problems concerning the modern dissonance between the genders stems from mass birth control as its effects distort the natural life cycle of human existence and reproduction.

    The Internet is another more recently introduced phenomenon that is beginning to have a real profound effect on the human sexual sociological dynamic. Face book, Twitter, eharmony, match.com, etc. in my opinion have insignificant effect as they are only new manifestations of variables that were already generally widely accepted and embraced. However, the Internet has made available two relatively new variables that I think are very significant. Those variables are:

    1. Instantly and anomously retrievable ubiquitous free pornography including every delightfully headonsisit fetish sexual act imaginable. Some may argue that pron has always been around and I agree. However, it has not always been free, instantly available and so easily accessed with complete anonymity. This and the fact that very specific acutely fetish oriented pron is being viewed by millions, mostly men, as I write this has some very interesting implications about how men may interact with women in the future on a mass scale. The human mind is very impressionable and tends to program easily, especially by what it is repeatedly exposed to. This fuck genie is out of the bottle asking for wishes and there is no getting it back in the bottle.

    2. Completely anonymous discourse between men is now available concerning their relationships with women as well as perceptions about women, what men expect and how to realize those expectations. This anonymity affords men more freedom of expression as it significantly mitigates risk of any damaging persecution. Men are openly comparing and sharing their feelings and experiences. Furthermore, men are comparing ideas on how to manage themselves and consequences of their expectations and experiences. This combined with pronography is certainly changing how men perceive women, what they can expect of women and how to make those expectations become reality.

    These newer phenomenon combined with the average mans general sex drive, sexual frustration, anger at feminism, fear of being on the shitty end of hypergamy, etc are already changing mans perception of and behavior with women and will certainly continue to. Man is quite litterally reprogramming himself and in a collaborated effort concerning what woman is and how she performs; all occurring within the male “frame”. This new programming could have some very interesting consequences in the not so distant future.

  70. Although “Saving the Best” still beats this one, this post and particularly the comments are somewhat depressing 🙂
    I don’t think it is quite that bad (but I’m not in the U.S.). Or I’m still in denial!

    @Rollo and others, serious question: a few of us got into LTR / marriage as a virgin, with a virgin. Assuming that she hasn’t been unfaithful, how much of a premium should these circumstances commend?

    On one hand I see all the doom and gloom in this post and comments; on the other hand, Rollo had a valid comment to a recent post “Life is too short to fuck women who consider sex an obligation and not a joy.”
    It’s very hard for someone like me to relate / understand an abundance mentality given my own count of N=1, but then I get several RP experts like Rollo that stress the scarcity of N=1 women.

    I think I know what to do is to be my best, hope she responds to it, and move on if she doesn’t. All the while carrying the burden of performance and hoping (but preparing for the eventuality) that this doesn’t happen:
    https://therationalmale.com/2015/03/16/making-up-for-missing-out/

    Thoughts anyone?

  71. @SD – Adapt and thrive. Too many guys here are hanging on to an illusion of fatherhood and family that is rare today. Not undoable of course, clearly there are masters of the universe-19 inch cocked-fundo christian alpha-nubile virginal christian waif attracting machines™ here who believe they can create a counterculture because they are better men. For the rest of us slobs though, perhaps signing up to have your guts ripped out, your money confiscated and nobody giving a flying shit is not the best approach. There is something worse than not having kids – that’s having your kids shit on you and treat you like a joke. Just wait until you are done paying for everything and they are out of college and on their own, you’ll find out exactly how fucking disposable you are as a father. I spent 400k raising my daughter, never hit her, did my best to be there for her always, loved her more than anything on this earth (including myself) and when we finally had it out when she was 24 it went like this:

    Me – “I can understand you not liking me – that happens. Not everyone has a warm relationship with their parents and perhaps all we can have is a polite, see you a couple of times a year relationship that isn’t warm. That’s your right – I can’t make you love me. But here’s what I don’t get. After a lifetime of supporting you and spending huge amounts of cash on you and doing my best to be there for you, do you not owe me at least basic civility and say the amount of respect you would give some person you work with that you are not crazy about but try to get along with?”

    Her – “No, I don’t owe you anything.”

    I got my question answered. You guys can go find out for yourselves it you like…

    Don Quixote and windmills and all that. I’m not saying the babymomma route is a good one, but the notion that a strong father can even exist in a family formed today seems absurd to me. Women and mothers are all that matter to families today, fathers are supposed to shut up, pay up, do half the housework – and also do all the stuff that used to be considered men’s work too. And oh yeah, get no respect for any of it. Under the best of circumstances, they are second Moms…

    Think having a stay at home wife fixes that? Lol. It’s just more time for her to feel entitled and compare herself to other’s she thinks have it better than you. And to flirt with the construction worker who’s been laid off again and comes over to smoke a joint with her when you aren’t around…

  72. This post was necessary….

    It’s important for men not to rush into any commitment, and to have options, especially these guys who meet a chic and within a few months its moved from a few bangs, to official, to moving in together, to rings, and/or being trapped with children (which may not be yours)…

    Enjoy playing with them and playing WITH them; For me, if I find chics who I deem are suitable for my seed and to share in my life, then I would carry on with them for a year or 2….if you fall for those tests and conventions you might miss this opportunity….I would prefer to be in the position where she volunteers information and historical truths, in a word, vetting herself for me….that would be better for me….not that it can go so smoothly all the time.

    Patience pays, women can either stick around and be the woman I need, want them to be, or if they can’t wait, they can kick rocks!

    And this…
    “I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.”

    Fuck me – this is some powerful stuff…this is why a red pill mind set and outlook is TOO important, integral, and imperative to men, especially in this day and age!

  73. What Scribblerg said.

    By the way @Scribblerg thanks for not mincing words. Even when you are tearing someone a new one, you leave little doubt to the contrary. Heheheeee…

    Anyway, just to reiterate: A unicorn is a mythical creature.

    myth·i·cal [miTHək(ə)] adj

    occurring in or characteristic of myths or folk tales.
    “one of Denmark’s greatest mythical heroes”
    synonyms: legendary, mythological, fabled, fabulous, folkloric, fairy-tale, storybook; More
    fantastical, imaginary, imagined, fictitious, storied
    “mythical beasts”

    •idealized, especially with reference to the past.
    “a mythical age of contentment and social order”
    •fictitious.
    “a mythical customer whose name appears in brochures”
    synonyms: imaginary, fictitious, make-believe, fantasy, invented, made-up, nonexistent; informalpretend
    “her mythical child”

    Sorry. Couldn’t resist.

    Low N count is good. But most women with low N counts tend to be not very exciting; even you would not wanna fuck. Most hot girls that make you wanna fuck do not have low N count. So, what then?

  74. Female psychology student reporting in. Due to current events, I’m gonna skip Rollos timeline and go straight for the Bux

  75. I think Rollo’s timeline is unskippable. She did not skip anything, she just rode the CC too furiously and was finished with it earlier than most.

  76. Rollo, had an eye-opening experience where a woman was exposing the incredible sexuality of women. The group was definitely Blue Pill–mixture of men and women.

    I was out with a group–some old friends and new acquaintances I had just met through our meetup hiking event. After 3.5 hours of hiking, we went to a vineyard to drink wine and eat cheese, sausage, and carbs. We stayed there about 4 hours. A MILF in our group got pretty loaded. She started talking about how she told her pre-teen daughters about sexuality. Like about how they need to make sure condoms are used and about the dangers of sexuality–not just pregnancy, but also STDs. MILF confided that she also told her daughters lots of other sexual items–dribbling them out a little at a time.

    I was sexualizing and DHVing with the group off and on. MILF wasn’t giving me obvious IOIs since it was a social circle situation. Her IOIs consisted primarily of amplifying my conversational leads and themes. MILF repeatedly said “No pants, woohoo!” and waved her arms in the air. MILF was sexualizing out the wazoo. I also was a couple of sheets in the wind and wasn’t reading much about her IOIs unless it was incredibly obvious. Two women in our group must have seen her giving IOIs because they moved her away from me. Didn’t matter because I went over to her and set my phone in front of her for her to input her contact info. Then I walked away to get a bottle of booze–didn’t even ask her to input her info.

    After I got home I sent a text to her and we established that we both got home safely and she casually mentioned that she was soaking in a tub. I made fun of her for saying this–wasn’t going to fall for her beta bait. I replied with “No pants, woohoo!” This is what she had been spamming at the party.

    MILF had left her kids with her husband and had been gone about 8 hours. Her husband’s best friend was visiting him this weekend, so he was occupied while she was out partying. Yeah, my wife wasn’t too happy with me for staying away so long and coming home half loaded. Mrs. Gamer didn’t want to go out with me last night, but was happy again with me this morning.

  77. I remember you saying Rollo that your wife had some ‘previous sexual experience’. I’m also pretty damn sure that you said that a woman having had previous sexual experience wasn’t necessarily a bad thing. So – how did you vet her, then? What did you look into – and what did you ultimately decide to marry her?

    As I’ve made it abundantly clear since year one of this blog; don’t use my experience as any benchmark for how you think going about marrying a woman ought to go.

    That said, at 27 years old I had only one criteria for a future Mrs. Tomassi – she had to be someone I could be faithful to. What that meant to me at the time was “Will this woman stay sexy? Does she understand that sex is the glue of any relationship? Is she someone who I wont cheat on?” While I wasn’t the Red Pill Man I am today, I had just gotten back into hooking up and rediscovering the Alpha side of me I was almost convinced was a character flaw during my years with the BPD (yes, she was clinically BPD).

    I knew if I was going to get into any LTR much less a marriage that woman would have to be someone who would never give me cause to fuck around on her. Since I’ve known her, both in my professional and personal life, I’ve had ample opportunity to do exactly that. I may not have been RP per se back then, but I knew myself well enough than to bet my future on a woman I was just going to fool around on.

    If I had any other criteria it was that she’d have to be good with kids. At the MiD conference I told this story about the first time I saw Mrs. Tomassi with her the 7 y.o. niece. It wasn’t about how she interacted with her niece, but rather how her niece responded to her as if she were her own mother that left an impression with me.

    If I had any vetting in my head these were really the only thing I was thinking about then.

    I should also say we’re both aware of our sexual pasts. Mrs. T knows my N count is in the 40s and I know of at least 5 guys she was with before me. We ‘dated’ non-exclusively for 4 months before she asked me to be exclusive with her. She knew I was seeing other women at the same time and asked to enter my Frame. I can’t say that I planned or played it that way since I was only doing what came natural to me (not really RP awareness), but it worked out the way it should’ve.

    Bear in mind, I didn’t write this post to convince anyone to that marriage is at all a good idea. It’s simply not worth the cost-to-risk prospect. As I’ve said many times, I would never remarry if that were to be my circumstance; and if I’m honest in my RP awareness, I would probably have waited another 5 years or so before I proposed to Mrs. T, but in 1996 it seemed like a good idea then, and thus far it’s been as good as I can expect.

    Yes I know the whole world could explode tomorrow at my wife’s whim. I get that. As I said this post isn’t about ‘man up and marry those sluts’, it’s about what to consider if a man wants to be a father in something more than being a weekend visitations Dad. These posts are to raise an awareness of how Hypergamy influences parenting and raising the next generation.

    If the Red Pill is to be a bottom-up social perspective then that also needs to include how Red Pill men and fathers influence the next generations instead of saying “aww fuck it we’re all going to hell anyway”. If that doesn’t include marriage for you, great, I commend your decision, but that doesn’t excuse you from coming to a better understanding of how gynocentrism IS directing the paths of sons and daughters now.

    I would much rather see positively masculine, Red Pill men influencing their kids, teaching teenagers and modeling their lives on Red Pill awareness for the next generation to follow than need to write more books for men to straighten out their Beta, Blue Pill conditioning once their live’s decisions have been made for them.

    An ounce of prevention, a pound of cure, you get the idea.

  78. @bnon

    If I had a dollar for every time I saw one of those…

    @scribblerg

    What truly astounds me is guys that need the Red Pill to come to the point of realizing marriage is a bum deal. Long before learning all this shit I looked at marriage and said “Why would I flip a coin with half of my shit to have a woman in the house that won’t have sex with me after the experiences I’ve had with women?”

    I was 25 thinking that. It eventually solidified a few years ago in to the thought that I would accept an LTR with a good enough woman, but I’d never marry. Now that I at least have reasonably high standards I won’t flex on I can’t even meet a woman hot enough to be worth hooking up with for a night, much less a plate, even less an LTR.

    I think part of it’s the area; DFW is basically home to fat girls and gold diggers with 50,000 more single men than women. I’m sure there’s guys that can work this area, but for a guy just getting his shit together and making the first real effort in his life to learn game, it’s rough. San Fran and NYC with very little game women were all over me. Here? If you’re not rolling a Bentley and wearing a $2k+ suit, it’s fat girls for you, sir. I can’t wait to finish my goals that will let me leave. I’m so close.

    My experiences lately have me contemplating just busting a fuckit and going MGTOW. Either I start getting laid on a regular basis soon, or I figure out some way to ignore the sexual impulses more. Marriage? LTR? Furthest shit from my mind, largely because I understand what it takes to make them happen now. Frankly, ain’t a bitch out there worth the effort anymore so far as I can tell.

  79. @ dragnet

    Got a FR on this topic.

    A broad flaked (1.5 hours late) to a platonic dance date on a Fri. night. She gave BS excuses about why she was late. The next evening, a buddy told me that another guy had flaked on a woman he had seen on Friday who had told him about her being flaked on Fri. night. And the woman who had flaked on me had been giving major IOIs to the other guy.

    She even denied that she had set up a date, lol.

    Of course, because I got intel, I can see through it all.

  80. ” I have been lurking on this site for a while. I entirely agree with the above post. I brought up the topic of hypergamy, in a politically correct rephrasing, to two females I know well, that is mother and sister. Their answer was that women have a shorter reproductive window and they understandably obsess and speed up the search for a long-term mate.

    This also explains why they move on fast from one partner to the next. Then, they as human beings, enjoy the fun there is to be had.

    Putting myself in their shoes I understand that, what would you do if you, a man, became reproductively impotent by the age of 25-26 ? I know I would frantically search my soulmate or at least someone to carry my seed. Which is exactly what women do. In fact, I fail to see what is so wrong with this. They get their kicks with well hung brad pitts I could in no way compare to ? good for them, enjoy the souvenir. To each his own pleasures.

    I personally do not want to know the sexual past of the women I get. I care only in so far as she may have some STDs. Even if I am not her apex Alpha partner and she fakes it I could not care less. Her past does not matter to me. What I want from her is offspring and an OK, good enough relationship which does not have to last forever. Once you get a kid you are done with your biological function. Even if you cannot take care of the child, even if it gets ugly after divorce and you endure some hardships, you are fine with Darwin. Your life, as a living creature, is fulfilled.

    Women are not that complicated really, just provide a nest. I provide the house, she gives me some kiddies in return. Nest against eggs agreement. A women just wants to have children. Give her a nest and she is in the deal : you are the vetting process winner. You do not even need that much social and financial power. She will weave her love story around that nest. That is what I see around me, provide her the lodging and she is yours. The possibility for you to kick her out at any time for any reason you want is the permanent relationship stability feeder. End of story.”

    OUCH!!!!!

    My eyes!!! My eyes!!!!

    I…Can’t…absorb…the..immense …Betatude…all…at..once

  81. I’m a happily married woman. I had lot’s of sex before marriage with probably something like 30 men. Not sure of the exact number, but I had a great time. Up until I met my husband, none of the important factors lined up to make those relationships viable as long term partnerships. Either the timing was very wrong (pre 24 or so on my end) or the men were not what I wanted in a future husband other than being very sexy. When I met my husband, who I have lots of fabulous sex with to this day, all of the important factors were present: We were insanely attracted to each other, I respected deeply him as a man, I was 25, and we just liked each other a lot. We still do and life is good. I do get why men would be hesitant to marry a woman with a long sexual past, but if you marry a girl who made it to mid 20’s with few sexual experiences, don’t you also have to ask yourself if maybe she’s not that sexual? I remember being pretty damn horny from 16 onwards… I don’t think I would have been able to resist those fun experiences…. Just my take, carry on.

  82. @Itsasecret

    Either the timing was very wrong (pre 24 or so on my end) or the men were not what I wanted in a future husband other than being very sexy.

    Textbook hypergamy confirmed.

    If he ever stumbles, you’re gonna bail on him without hesitation.

  83. @ Sun Wukong – I’m not so sure… one thing this and other similar blogs have opened my eyes to is the reality of a woman’s sexual power after a certain age. I had a lot of fun in my late teens and early 20’s as a very attractive woman. I’m not sure I’d enjoy trying that again as an aging woman. Plus, contrary to the idea that a woman who has slept with a lot of men can no longer bond, I feel very bonded to my husband. In fact, I related to Rollo’s story about his early criteria for a wife – someone who he could remain faithful too. I asked myself the same question – can this guy really satisfy me on a few important dimensions for life? I think I got lucky and picked well. My honest opinion about the matter.

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