Strength of Interest

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I had a couple of questions from the SoSuave Forum‘s (yes, I’m still a mod there) Judge Nismo I thought I’d take a crack at:

G’ morning Rollo. I got a couple questions for you that I don’t think you touched on in your book…or I may have overlooked.

1. What is your opinion on the Celebrity Maxim?

That is, I know you see it a lot in your Rational Male comments and on this board (i.e. Would she flake out on Brad Pitt? Would she make George Clooney wait for sex? She wouldn’t confuse Channing Tatum, etc.) I’ve even used it a lot on here, usually saying you wouldn’t fall asleep if you had a date with Katy Perry, and you wouldn’t pull a last minute flake text with Kate Upton, and you wouldn’t have to babysit if you had Shakira ready to bang!

If there’s three things I’ve learned from writing in the Manosphere for the past 12 years it’s this; no matter how apt, never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic and never hold up famous celebrities as common reference examples of broader, mundane dynamics.

The temptation to do so stems from a want for a common point of reference. However, appealing to a highly recognizable exemplar of a dynamic only makes picking apart the known particulars about that individual a priority – not on really grasping the dynamic itself.

I see this in the ‘sphere occasionally, and I’d be lying if I said I’d never committed these sins myself. For the most part, and certainly as far as my own readership goes, I think many of the best writers and the commentariat of the ‘sphere are very intelligent men. That’s not to account for the occasional troll, but I’ve found that even an OCD troll still needs to be clever in the ‘sphere.

That said, it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts. Using celebrities as examples of commonality in purpose just smacks of the Apex Fallacy.

“….the Apex fallacy is the idea that we assign the characteristics of the highest visibility members of a group to all members of that group.”

If you’re at all familiar with the controversy surrounding the Apex Fallacy, feminists and manginas alike decided to commandeer wikipedia to paste this as a Men’s Rights misappropriation of the definition, but in actuality the true definition cuts both ways. So while women misappropriate the highest visibility men to associate a totality of the “patriarchy”, men, on the other hand, misappropriate the highest echelon men with examples of common inference of a dynamic.

In English, those celebs aren’t you or me or any layperson you deal with daily. I get the inference of course, and the message is usually one about incentives being strong enough to prompt behaviors. However, what Nismo is getting at is really less about the validity of those illustrations and more about genuine desire:

I ask since it’s quite a big trope in the manosphere…

2. What is your take on the one strike rule?

You do have a 3 strikes article on Rational Male, and I did read it. On this board, it’s quite common to see situations with chicks go like this:

– She flaked on me, she is deleted.
– She stopped responding to my texts and calls, automatic out.
– She wants to bring some friends along, sorry this is one on one.

I could go on and on, most of these situations often get read by red pill men as low interest, thus move on or become a beta orbiter. Yes, I do online dating and work 2 jobs, but I do have a one strike policy.

Sure, sometimes life will truly get in the way, but most men who are red pill will likely move on if there’s low interest. We all know not to waste time with uninterested chicks because they won’t put out. Heck, the sick excuse is often times a blow off, and lately, death in the family has been disguised as blowing someone off.

Zero Tolerance

The problem most men have with a Zero Tolerance policy is that you’re not George Clooney and you’re not Brad Pitt, but moreover, most men still cling to Blue Pill idealisms and the conditioned hope that women will see the “real” men they think women have a magical sensitivity to detect. Thus, they play by the script and hold out for the real desire they believe women should have a capacity for with them.

This is why Blue Pill men get angry at the 3-Strikes rule; that scarcity mentality colors their interaction with women to the point that anything counter to playing the patient, devoted, “prove-my-quality” white knightery role invalidates everything they’ve sacrificed and waited so patiently for up to that point.

They’re afraid of throwing the baby out with the bath water, and damn it, if you suggest doing anything other than what makes their patience worthwhile you’re a misogynistic prick.

If these men could pause with any insight they’d understand that any threshold – one strike, three strikes – suggested by myself or the manosphere isn’t about punishing a woman’s indecisiveness, but rather a pragmatic vetting meant to be efficient for men. That tolerance policy is about conservation of resources and time, not so much retribution (though I’me sure some men entertain that).

  • She flakes on you with no counter offer or marginal reframe? –
    Message: Insufficient interest
  • Stops responding to communications (and possibly resumes after a period)? – The Medium is the Message
  • Wants to bring friends along to a date? –
    Message: you are a rich resource to be exploited, or her interest is so low that she foresees a need to bring friends along to make her date with you entertaining.

The Prince with Interest

What Nismo is comparing here is really an evaluation of interest a woman has in you. I’ve gone into this in the past:

Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.

From an evolutionary perspective Hypergamy can’t afford to wait once a woman’s filtering mechanism is satisfied that a man passes for an Alpha. Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.

So to use the apex example, no, a woman can’t afford to confuse Channing Tatum. Mix in the behavioral influences a woman’s ovulatory chemistry predisposes her to with that SMV+ benefit perception and you’ve got dilated pupils, seductive ornamentation, lower vocal intonations and an elevated heart rate – Estrus.

As you might guess, this poses a problem for most guys because, lets face it, most of us aren’t examples of this apex. Even when we make dramatic leaps in self-improvement and physical transformation it’s hard to shake our former self-impressions and our previous degrees of self-confidence.

Back in the early days of SoSuave there was a concept we’d use that I think had a lot of merit – the concept of the Prince. For many men just coming into a Red Pill awareness meant re-imagining oneself in a new, more intrinsically valued light.

For instance, after you understand the basic psychology of why a technique like Cocky & Funny or Amused Mastery works with women, personally applying those dynamics requires a man to view himself in a more valuable context.

As I said, Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit, so it follows that a man should at least reconsider himself as that “better-than her SMV” prospect. Irrespective of that being a reality or not, the idea is a sound one. In fact it’s a law of power:

Law 25 – Re-Create Yourself

Do not accept the roles that society foists on you.  Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience.  Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.

And also:

Law 34 – Be Royal in your Own Fashion:  Act like a King to be treated like one

The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you.  For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others.  By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.

In Amused Mastery, it helps to actually have some context of mastery to source as amusement.

Needless to say, asking a former Blue Pill Beta to simultaneously digest a new Red Pill awareness and revalue his self-worth is a pretty tall order. As I mention in Rejection & Revenge as a man, your existence will be defined by how you deal with rejection, so for a majority of men who’ve been hammered flat for the better part of a lifetime by women’s rejection telling him to adopt the mindset of a Prince is alien to him.

Furthermore, much of his feminine-conditioned self-perception has always taught him to be self-conscious and respectful of women’s default authority. It’s part of men’s previous Beta Game to want to identify with the feminine in order to prove how alike a man is with a woman. This conditioning is really a plan to force compliance to women’s sexual strategy from men, but it’s sold on the belief that being more feminine-like, feminine-sensitive, will set a Beta man apart from other brutish men who aren’t.

When you consider his previous degree of ego-investment in his conditioning, you can get a real appreciation of the unlearning a Red Pill man must do. It’s very difficult for most guys to consider themselves a Prince when they’ve been taught reverent deference to women all their lives.

Qualities of The Prince(ss)

A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him.

If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards. So ingrained is that subservience that a Princess’ acceptance of a man is exalted to an appreciation of spiritual, metaphysical, significance. God ordained her acceptance of him, the fates conspired or he “just got lucky”.

Beta men, in their Blue Pill expectations of women being rational agents, are often dumbfounded by the woman who compulsively returns over and over again to the Alpha ‘asshole’ who doesn’t respect, appreciate and love her like she deserves – like he would if she’d just come to her senses. We call that guy the emotional tampon, but what he doesn’t get is that the woman he’s orbiting is locked in a cycle that only a man with an SMV above her own can induce.

Even if that valuation is just perceptual, a woman’s Hypergamous optimization efforts will predispose her to wanting to lock that man down. This is the danger of relying on apex examples of a dynamic – women must still operate within their respective frames and within their capacity to accurately evaluate the SMV of the men she can realistically attract.

That semi-abusive Jerk boyfriend she loves so much? He’s not Channing Tatum or Brad Pitt, but contextually he’s the guy with the strength of her interest.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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Forge the Sky
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@zdr01dz “I disagree. Strength, wealth, fame. etc. etc. IS fitness. Those things make life better. Game isn’t fitness. Game is the sales pitch. A man needs both. I think this confuses the AF/BB responses. I’ll take a stab at atomizing them a sec for clarity’s sake, because I think Tillikum and YaReally have an important point here. From an older comment of mine about alpha vs beta: “But women have different relationships with them. To women, betas are friends, helpers, co-workers, employees, servants; unless related by blood, they are practical beings only. There is no romance to them. They are… Read more »

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@Liz

Ha, I’d use the alchemist one except I’m already at slight risk of seeming nerdy. It’s better for guys like me to de-emphasize anything that smacks of lore in order to avoid the brain-preening I was talking about earlier.

Be great coming from some huge lunk though.

I just tell ’em I’m an underwater welder. That can go a lot of ways.

@Sun

‘Puppy phrenologist’ is pretty funny, and probably a decent way to screen for girls who aren’t total idiots.

zdr01dz
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@Forge the Sky Alpha is sufficient to light a fire in a woman’s eyes, but she still won’t fuck you if her friends would look down on her for it, lol. She needs a way to justify it, and you having the trappings of a good life can do that. And, in an LTR, any passion might wear thin if fucking you for two hours a day comes with living in a rotting shack the other 22. I think that’s essentially correct. http://emptylighthouse.com/sites/default/files/benjy-bronk-bald_0.jpg Outside of minor fame Benjy Bronk from the Stern show has nothing going for him. But his… Read more »

stained class
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Softek
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This belongs on the Obesity Culture post, but check this out. Really? The hamster is strong with this one. Get a load of this: http://elitedaily.com/women/stop-accepting-dad-bod/1025403/ “Stop Accepting the Dad Bod” “Men, you simply cannot get away with this. It’s insanity. The fact that we’re glorifying men being pudgy and simultaneously berating women with too-thin madness is disturbing.” “There is no standard of sexiness for women equal to this whole dad bod fad. Women are still expected to be thin and bikini ready, aspiring to look like Kate Upton while men are happy looking like Leo DiCaprio or pre-A-list-fame Chris Pratt.… Read more »

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@ Softek
Stop Accepting the Dad Bod

I can’t disagree with that. The “Dad Bod” is a joke. 95% of chicks are fat and I don’t like that either.

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@sluttie “but, unless that tall / fit guy can DHV and have social dominance,” Being able to say NO is one thing that comes to mind with social dominance . Especially in front of people she knows. Many foreign men do that at dance venues I go to. “I never EVER will disclose to women what I do for a living before I’ve banged her a few times.” I wouldn’t ethier I would make something up that was so over the top. Such as a astronaut. @Forge the sky “more social approval for being with him.” Those high school days… Read more »

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“Women are still expected to be thin and bikini ready, aspiring to look like Kate Upton..”

Kate Upton = “thin”?
That’s the problem, right there. Kate Upton has a mom bod, but now we call that type of thing “thin and bikini ready” for some reason.

Forge:
“I just tell ’em I’m an underwater welder.”
That’s a good one. smile

Forge the Sky
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@zdr01dz Ya, alpha impact has a shelf life. You need to keep making it, like money. People, even redpillers, always say that passion only lasts so long. But some people seem to be able to keep on reigniting it. Others? They have one fantasy to give a girl, and when it’s gone, it’s gone. I’d be interested to hear people’s perspectives on this, it’s something I don’t quite get yet. If you’re a genuinely self-assured, self-actualized man, does attraction just stay organically as an outcome of that? Or do you need to keep changing things up, create new circumstances and… Read more »

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@ Forge the Sky People, even redpillers, always say that passion only lasts so long. I can only speak from my own experience but in my relationship it hasn’t worked out that way so far. After 25 years my wife still weighs 115 pounds. She still finds my personality entertaining. She needs me financially and in this economy always will. She cooks me special meals, sits across the table while I eat and drinks a glass of water. Most women aren’t like that and yes she is American. She has an above average IQ of about 120. I read a… Read more »

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“A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him.” …And this, my friends, is why Rollo beats everyone else in the Manosphere. When I read this paragraph, a smile as big as Texas spread across my face… Read more »

SFC Ton
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Rugby, thanks for that link. Generally I am more interested by how an athlete trains for a sport then the sport itself. I found it right interesting. No doubt anyone with a decent social life will know men who should be pulling ass but are not. Tall, good looking, etc. Those dudes have bait but no hook. Game can give them that hook And some men need to reshape their lives and game can help there too However, I still cannot shitcan the idea game is really a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant,… Read more »

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@Rollo My own proof of it came from turning a 29 year old lawyer working for a financial firm and all about her grrrl power in to a docile school girl simply by my maintaining a solid frame. She wasn’t used to a guy that wouldn’t beg for the pussy. One time out with her even involved a moment where she said “Wait a minute, you’re not a feminist?” “No.” and on to the next subject without a break in frame. In the past I might have tried to dance around the subject and failed the shit test. Instead she… Read more »

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@SFC Ton

However, I still cannot shitcan the idea game is really a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits

For me developing masculine pursuits has been part of developing Game. I see them as one and the same for me personally.

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Re Dad Bod: A women need only get down to about 20% body fat to look pretty good. Even when she was 18 I don’t think Kate Upton was below 22%, now she’s pushing 28. The author of the article is bitching about men who are about – 20% body fat. I dare her to get down to what she considers the “impossibly thin” standard for women and then get into a Bod Pod. And then double dare her to get down to the 10% of a man (me at the moment) she would no doubt think “could stand to… Read more »

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SfcTon. – “However, I still cannot shitcan the idea game is really a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

If a man can live his life as “masculine, unrepentant” with “unreconstructed raw masculinty” then wouldn’t any pursuit then be masculine?

Or put another way, weak men are weak no matter their pursuits.

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“And not for nothing, but MYG not denying accusations she’s a woman sock-puppeting as a man for the last 3 threads, noted without comment.” You can also tell she’s a women by the fact that once everyone started to ignore her comments, she posted a bunch more, trying to get attention! 3-4 comments in a row! Multiple times! I imagine she reacts the same way with men and texting. “He didn’t respond right away?! Maybe he doesn’t like me?! I must get his attention!” But, game doesn’t work…don’t cha know? *rolls eyes* (in fairness, anyone seeking validation would react the… Read more »

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@CaveClown

in fairness, anyone seeking validation would react the same way, male or female.

Bingo. This is why validation seeking behaviors are a DLV regardless of sex and why male attention seeking is so repulsive to females. Game is largely about making the dominance associated with masculinity part of your behaviors.

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” . . . wouldn’t any pursuit then be masculine? ”

Any pursuit done by such a man.

Note that knitting sweaters was an invention of sail age North Sea fishermen. It is one of the many tasks and signifiers of men that women have usurped. Among the others are above the knee skirts, purses, pink, cavalry boots and high heels.

Sun Wukong
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high heels

…wat?

kfg
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Heels themselves were invented for cavalry, to keep feet from slipping from stirrups. Women didn’t wear heels at all. Heels were made high because hight is a male signifier of dominance. Women, beginning with the nobility, adopted high heels to shrink the dominance gap accorded to hight.

They’re an early “You go gurrrrl!” thang.

Sun Wukong
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Hmph. Learn something new each day.

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kfg – “Any pursuit done by such a man.” And that’s how I meant it. And your observation about women adapting men’s fashion is important. Men allowed and encouraged this to some degree, think girls in sailor outfits, because it serves as an overt sign of masculine dominance. Women participate and encourage this to be more like men or assert “ME TOO” seeking validation by aspiring to be associated with something greater. The men who dress as women are never seen as aspiring to something greater, but as jokes and failures as men, by both men and women. Fun fact:… Read more »

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Rollo, ” Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.” Well, what about the baby mamas who get knocked up by losers by any standard, and then lock down a beta provider with a good job for marriage? They don’t want to marry the loser baby daddies, they want to marry the well earning, responsible providers. And yes, they have more… Read more »

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Mad Yale Grad May 6th, 2015 at 8:50 pm Speaking of celebs… Natalie Portman: Actress Says She Doesn’t Display Oscar Award Because It’s a ‘False Idol’ “This is lit­er­ally worshipping gold idols — if you worship it. That’s why it’s not displayed on the wall. It’s a false idol,” Portman told The Hollywood Reporter when asked where she kept her Oscar. SRSLY?! kfg May 6th, 2015 at 9:40 pm MYG: “SRSLY?!” She’s Jewish. Read the Old Testament, or just watch The Ten Commandments. You could also do a net search on “Jewish Art”, of which there is very little and… Read more »

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“Fun fact: in Rome the women who wore togas were the high end prostitutes, as the empire declined women in togas became more common as the practice was adopted by wealthy women”

– What did Roman women wear before they wore togas?

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I google imaged the Upton chick and she’s thin in all the photos. Photoshopped? Old pics? Her ass is also flat. Flat asses that get fat get wide. So you’ve got a wide flat ass like a pancake. When they lay on their stomachs it spreads out sideways becoming even flatter. Common feature for her ethnic group. Not a good look.

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjPZIE1V71EAZCMnnIlQ?p=kate+upton&fr=yhs-mozilla-001&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

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MadYaleGirl – “What did Roman women wear before they wore togas?”

So much for a Yale education.

kfg
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“– What did Roman women wear before they wore togas?” Ankle length dresses. The toga is not a piece of normal clothing. It is an overclothing signifier of rank. It is so impractical that it requires at least two servants to put it on properly, who must then follow you around all day to keep adjusting it. If you so much as bend over it falls off. Men who did not rank (or were actively engaged in military pursuits) wore above the knee dresses or skirts. Pants were a sign of being uncivilized, a barbarian. Probably . . . German.… Read more »

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“Men do not have a last f**kable day.” Aint that the truth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPpsI8mWKmg

Mad Yale Grad
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“never read the links I post the first time ” You didn’t post those particular 4 to me before. I’ll skim through. Though I will not become convinced the baby daddies I’m referring to were, are or will ever be “alpha” by any measure. It has nothing to do with morals. All the talk of game here has to do with becoming more masculine, setting and achieving goals, improving upon oneself, gaining confidence, etc. You are saying these are things that alphas do/are so betas need to emulate them. Well these dudes have none of that and they aren’t doing… Read more »

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“It is a sin simply to make a graven image, never mind actually possess it.”

The Abrahmic faiths have that concept but it refers to making a divine image, one to be worshipped, not any image at all, otherwise Aisha would not have been allowed to play with her dolls.

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MadYaleGirl – “Aisha would not have been allowed to play with her dolls.”

Playing dress up with her husband’s unit is foreplay, not paying with dolls.

Liz
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“I google imaged the Upton chick….*snip* Flat asses that get fat get wide. *snip* Common feature for her ethnic group. Not a good look.

More evidence this is PJ.

Badpainter
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Liz,

Is that why I smell curry?

Sun Wukong
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Really starting to see a need for this in the thread:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States

Mad Yale Grad
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OK Rollo, read all 4 and none of it applies to the situations I’m faced with. No worries mate. Rollo says “So we get a wide variety of what makes a man Alpha – he’s the guy of high moral character, princely ambition and integrity, as well as the self-important cad banging his wife and “their” girlfriend. They are BOTH Alpha.” Yeah neither of these scenarios applies nor does the other stuff. The baby daddies I know just aren’t alpha, though a few of the provider mates are. Plus Roissy thinks all black guys are alphas just by virtue of… Read more »

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“I’m leaving this topic.”

*Sigh*…but like herpes you’ll be back…for the next one.

Liz
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Lol! BP

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@SFC Ton

“a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

Amen to that

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfXsJlR5A4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7pdu5hWARM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_43F2RsHHL0

@Rollo
“Because you inanely believe women are capable of making cogent decisions about who they should fuck and who they should marry.”
Another reason I am ignorant

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zdoiz, “If I was single again and I couldn’t lock down a woman this attractive or close to it I’d go MGTOW. I’m not going to perform for anything less. Translation: If someday I became single that’s the way I would probably stay.” “Tony Robbins is a zillionaire and his wife is incredibly hot. But there are firemen in my city with wives this hot. After a certain point money doesn’t change the equation much.” Did you ever attend any of his retreats? I was part of the circuit. Things started getting weirder and weirder when this “Sage” (not her… Read more »

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Slight flare-up there. Put some ice on it.

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@Rollo

Hey, thanks for your response. I found the catch and the business you are trying to make out of here. Good luck with that!

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Tony Robbins, fwiw, was an interesting case. His first wife was something like 18 years older than he was, and he married her very very early in life. She’d been divorced twice, with three kids. He had a son with a girlfriend outside of his marriage before they divorced.

He has some interesting stuff…I’ve read his recent book on Money, Master the Game. Recommend it for folks who don’t have a lot of background in finance (I can’t speak for people that knowledgeable as I am not), it was very informative to me.

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@SFC Ton

“a substitute for a robust and masculine life. And I mean masculine, unrepentant, unreconstructed raw masculinty and masculine pursuits”

Amen to that

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfXsJlR5A4

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K7pdu5hWARM

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_43F2RsHHL0

@Rollo
“Because you inanely believe women are capable of making cogent decisions about who they should fuck and who they should marry.”
Well… Gonna focus on approaching and leave it at that.

Mad Yale Grad
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“Your wife’s job is to hurt you and your job is to love her” while encouraging the wife to hit him and encouraging the husband to “be a man” and take it!!!! The crowd cheers….

The Diplomat
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Do you know any men who use the term “preggers” for pregnant. I don’t.

I spotted MYG as a ladytroll several threads ago, and I haven’t seen anything further to convince me otherwise. No harm, no foul for her posting on this forum, but she shouldn’t misrepresent herself and expect not to be harshly called out for it and subsequently bitch-spanked for obvious chick trolling.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSqMO7WuPGs I think all of us have either acted like or are acting like the wind up man above. I know I have. It is as if the “red pill” winds us up and releases us to sometimes flip about; awkwardly flopping all over ourselves and each other, flailing around with no meaningful bearing. The red pill is a beta suicide pill and the flopping around is death convulsions. Enlightenment shatters our misconception of reality. We cannot reconcile ourselves without pain and struggle. Consequently we try to avoid facing ourselves; make claims based on false hopes and ego and attack… Read more »

Forge the Sky
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Re: fashions

I recently saw a tank top in a store, definitely for girls but a bit masculine-colored. It was called the ‘boyfriend tank,’ the idea being I suppose that the girl was supposed to look like she had borrowed her boyfriend’s clothing.

Imagine marketing that schtick to men – ‘girlfriend shorts!’

Where would you put your junk?

Forge the Sky
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Lol @ MYG’s ideals about what should be alpha. I’ve mentioned a girl before – nice, pretty girl, good job – who is inextricably bound to an immigrant dishwasher from a local bar. Twerpy, average-looking, smokes pot and plays video games in his downtime, no real social skills. She briefly contemplated leaving him after he strangled her for the third time, but changed her mind a day later. Soon after she ‘accidentally’ got pregnant and last I heard won’t shut up about what a great father this douche will clearly make. Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Part of… Read more »

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Self surgery Overbearing mother http://failuresforgodesses.blogspot.com/2010/01/jack-donovan-on-mother-may-i.html?m=1 On being male http://www.rooshv.com/you-did-this-to-me It’s better to be in the arena, getting stomped by the bull, than to be up in the stands or out in the parking lot. Steven Pressfield, The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks & Win Your Inner Creative Battles No one can change but me their is nothing about the world I wanna change but me. I remember reading about Kurt cobains death the shirt he was wearing before he shoot himself had “I hate myself and I wanna die” he’s bandmate was chris who plays bass noticed and… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Forge Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence. This is an incredibly hard thing for me. The “curse of intelligence” as my therapist calls it. I can analyze any subject from any number of angles, and so my examines every single subject from every single angle it can conceive of all the time. This has been one of the biggest challenges for me to try and overcome. I know it’s valuable sometimes, but for most of daily life it’s just a gigantic fucking handicap. My head is just full… Read more »

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http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2014/12/amy-schumer-host-of-mtv-movie-awards-2015.jpg

I think Amy Schumer’s comedy show could be improved if she would consider including jokes and humor in it.

kfg
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” Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do . . .”

And if turns out to be wrong in some way, well, do something else.

“I think Amy Schumer’s comedy show could be improved if she would consider including jokes and humor in it.”

Quaint.

Forge the Sky
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@Sun Wukong Ya, I’ve got the same thing. Damn brain never wants to shut up. It doesn’t help that I’ve got a writer’s instinct to constantly edit my phrases and wording, even as I’m saying them; if I don’t break myself out of that, I actually get a bit of a stutter, ha. It’s all overthinking. But I can break it. I’m actually a good conversationalist, and a very good public speaker, once I do. It can be a huge shift, really. Our society currently over-encourages this sort of careful thinking. From a young age we go to school and… Read more »

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@ Diplomat – Some of MadYaleGrad’s language I’ve pick up on has some Aussie slang here and there. “preggers” is fairly common (and stupid) Australian slang for pregnant.

@ MYG – have we fucked before? Is your real name Lisa?

Forge the Sky
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Also, it really helps to have a father who owns a supplement company. Where each product has been clinically tested to work on some people, so as to winnow out the bullshit a priori. And to only suffer abuse from an older brother in the context of a loving family, rather than having an abusive parent. I read the stories some men post here, and I’m humbled by the strength against adversity I see. I’m very grateful to be reminded how good I have it, all things considered. Welp, I’ve had a few whiskeys now, maybe I’m just getting sappy… Read more »

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@ Forge the Sky Alpha is a mindset, not a demographic. Part of that mindset is not thinking twice about anything you do, whether due to stupidity or competence. Pussy doesn’t know the difference. I’m not sure if I completely agree with that line of reasoning based on this data point. The average woman in my city is far more attractive in wealthy neighborhoods than middle class neighborhoods. In poor neighborhoods there are hardly any attractive women at all. And yet poor neighborhoods are chock full of men that ooze attitude and masculinity. Step out of line and these guys… Read more »

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@Forge the sky “And to only suffer abuse from an older brother in the context of a loving family, rather than having an abusive parent.” Hey I approached 6 girls today @Forge the sky I grew up with women and was seriously hurt by them. They where both physical and emotionally hurtful I would have had a brother as well but my mom had a miscarriage and told me before my dad found out which ironically ended up getting me really beat up physically because my farther felt my male presence caused the stress for my mom to lose him.… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@zdr01dz

I think Amy Schumer’s comedy show could be improved if she would consider including jokes and humor in it.

Perhaps removing herself from it would remedy the situation.

Forge the Sky
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@zdr01dz

Again, AF vs BB.

There’s a dualistic mating strategy going on in the background here. For a high-class/pretty woman, it can often make more sense to lock down a socially laudable BB man than to publicly trumpet the AF that turns her on. She might even be contented by the trade-off – social status, comfort, and general validation at the expense of tingles – but it doesn’t mean that she’s not more viscerally attracted to the lowlife tattooed thugs that catcall her when she takes her recumbent bike down to the soup kitchen.

Forge the Sky
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(in order to volunteer for her church’s community outreach, I meant to add)

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@ Sun Wukong
Perhaps removing herself from it would remedy the situation.
Test pattern would by funnier than most of her YouTube clips. Then again maybe I’m missing something. Right now she’s the “it” girl but to me… meh.

Forge the Sky
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@rugby

Hey man, good on you for the approaches. Any closes? Would have aimed for a similar number but a thunderstorm crashed my social plans, lol.

And I don’t bring up my brother in a ‘poor me’ sense, the point is I recognize how good I have it, relatively speaking. But my older brother is a) gay; and b) suffering from a personality disorder, so I’m afraid your visions of learning so much from a male peer may not quite apply here.

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@ Forge the Sky
Again, AF vs BB.

I have no doubt that AF/BB is a real phenomenon. It absolutely does take a certain degree of Alpha attitude to hold a woman’s interest. But I think the fact that pretty women compete against each other to avoid poor men indicates something.

A) Being Alpha isn’t everything.
B) From a female point of view Alpha is more than just personality.

zdr01dz
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^^^
1 or the other.

rugby11ljh
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@forge the sky Check it out So I wrote this letter to myself on whole body harvesting in my deepest blue pill stage age 24 My sister came in my room and called the cops on me. The next morning I woke up and got handcuffed by the police in my parents house and taken to the hospital. They put me in the Phyce ward and termed me bi polar… It’s funny No hilarious I got made fun for being male than the moment I try too ale my life by given the world my body through whole body harvesting… Read more »

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@zdr01dz

Women generally aren’t funny because they don’t have to be. She’s no exception.

Honestly chicks that think they’re “funny” are usually obnoxious to date anyway. Their humor is usually just poorly timed and feels very try hard-ish. It’s more a turn off than a turn on.

Mad Yale Grad
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“I have no doubt that AF/BB is a real phenomenon.”

Oh for sure it is. But so is OF/BB: omega fucks/beta bucks. And sometimes even OF/AB: omega fucks/alpha bucks.

Forge the Sky
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zdr01dz I think it’s more that it takes a certain amount of AF to have a woman’s interest in the first place. But my point is, this isn’t a dogmatic binary. The RP realization isn’t that women chase douchebag alphas. The RP realization is that woman have a dualistic mating strategy (which at least flirts with mutual exclusivity between AF/BB). Women are absolutely drawn to beta traits. And that attraction isn’t just an illusion, it isn’t any less real than their draw to AF; the dynamics are just different, they’re more pragmatic. But it’s important to realize that no degree… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@Forge Women are absolutely drawn to beta traits. And that attraction isn’t just an illusion, it isn’t any less real than their draw to AF; the dynamics are just different, they’re more pragmatic. The reason that every guy focuses on the AF side though is that we all want to be the guy she’s wet for. We all want the wild monkey sex. We all want to feel like we’re really really really wanted in the sack instead of having to beg for it, because men need sex in a way women will never understand. TRP teaches about the dualistic… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Hell that’s the only reason hypergamy even works, honestly.

DeNihilist
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So MYG, Tony reads Heartiste and steals his ideas to make millions. Someone should let Heartiste know.

zdr01dz
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@ Forge the Sky I see the same thing in my parent’s relationship. I suppose I’m trying to figure out how some relationships end up like that, and others, in spite of white-hot initial attraction, don’t. Is it just the (perception of) alpha, or is there some other factor? Well here are some data points. A) I’m short B) I’m not handsome C) No woman ever turned her head to get a better look at me. Ever. I’ve proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it can be done without good looks. I do have solid game so at… Read more »

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@ Sun Wukong
We all want the wild monkey sex.
When I was young I used to think the way to please women was through outstanding technique. DUMB! The truth is it doesn’t much matter what I do. If I’m genuinely into it she gets turned on.

Getting hot monkey sex is easy. You want it, just take it. Women love to be desired and they love dirty talk while they’re being taken.

All of this assumes you’re already in a relationship, hehe.

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@ Forge the Sky
Wait a minute, one more possibly important data point.

When I started dating my wife she had just turned 18. I was 20. She was a virgin. There are some studies floating around the man-o-sphere that indicate that the more sex partners a woman has had the more likely a marriage will end in divorce. She’s only had me.

Divided Line
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@ Mad Yale Grad

You could probably help these poor young men out by throwing them a blowjob or two. They probably didn’t teach you that at Yale, I guess.

Liz
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I think Amy Schumer is funny (kind of). But:
1) There’s too much Amy (a good 20 pounds too much)
2) She’s a one-tick pony
(there’s only so much a person can milk from the “I’m a slut! Get it?” punchline and that once-bountiful teat is a saggy, flabby, empty teat now…Chelsey Handler overused it first)

Forge the Sky
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Thanks zd01dz, that’s helpful.

And yeah, technique is really only window dressing. And if thinking about technique takes you out of the moment, quite harmful, lol.

Men and women are similar in this respect – we both want the upfront, passionate, unpremeditated desire of our sexual partner – not some preset bag of tricks designed to elicit our approval.

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@Forge the sky
“Men and women are similar in this respect – we both want the upfront, passionate, unpremeditated desire of our sexual partner – not some preset bag of tricks designed to elicit our approval.”
Makes me think of “just gets it”

zdr01dz
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This just in.

Porn and video game addiction are leading to ‘masculinity crisis’, says Stanford prison experiment psychologist

I laugh at this stuff. Society spent the last 50 years trying to devalue men and now it’s running out of beta, worker bees because they won’t sign up. Oops! When I look at how many young girls are obese it’s obvious that MGTOW is a completely rationale response for a lot of guys.

rugby11ljh
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Alpha seed Beta Need
Re create yourself…
“Remember women need tension to be attracted.”

Was approaching a few women today at three and thinking of this article.

Para Social relationships comes to mind…

http://web.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/SteverParasocial%20Final2013.docx

http://people.wcsu.edu/mccarneyh/acad/Camella.html

http://www.acrwebsite.org/volumes/v32/acr_vol32_83.pdf

zdr01dz
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Kate Bollick’s basic precept is that a woman doesn’t need a husband. What she needs is a rich father and a string of wealthy boyfriends that she can extract resources from.

Softek
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@zdr01dz

The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.”

Softek
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Let me rewrite the second part too:

“Feminism and the general devaluing of men leaves men hopeless about finding intimacy or a place in society, and prone to retreating into excess gaming and online pornography”

Sun Wukong
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@Rollo

The Feminine Imperative can’t get its narrative straight.

Proof that it’s not a conspiracy, just an alignment of incentives for hundreds of millions of women living in denial of biological reality.

@Softek

The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.”

Bingo.

kfg
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@Softek:

Never trust a man who attempts to knock his arrow of causality the wrong way ’round.

@Rollo: “The Feminine Imperative can’t get its narrative straight.”

Certainly not, that would ruin everything.

rugby11ljh
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@Solftek “The headline of that article should be, “Masculinity crisis is leading to porn and videogame addiction.” ” You looking at the history of manwin and Fabian Thyman buying as much porn as possible an profiting off it from 2007 to now and it’s incredible. You look at hunting laws in the most liberal states and it’s another wonder. You look at kids getting detention for bringing knives or getting up and you wonder? I really think it’s been a huge detriment for boys going through puberty to deal with a huge backlash of having balls and a penise and… Read more »

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http://imgur.com/amaFm7d The subtext of this cover is that Kate is attractive enough that she doesn’t need a husband. A woman of her beauty still has access to male resources. The Amazon reviews confirm this. If you grew up in a privileged elitist household where a routine summer vacation involved vacationing on islands off the North East coast – while your parents played tennis all day on clay courts – perhaps you will enjoy this. This book is one big contradiction and a thinly veiled attempt by author Bolick to prove herself a far superior being than the average intellectual. Bolick… Read more »

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@ Softek
“Feminism and the general devaluing of men leaves men hopeless about finding intimacy or a place in society, and prone to retreating into excess gaming and online pornography”

Bingo! Society was banking on the fact that once all the male incentives were removed men would keep producing just the same. Sorry, humans are rational.

Mad Yale Grad
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Forge the Sky. “But my point is, this isn’t a dogmatic binary. The RP realization isn’t that women chase douchebag alphas. The RP realization is that woman have a dualistic mating strategy (which at least flirts with mutual exclusivity between AF/BB).” I agree that some women display a dualistic mating strategy and that it is not a binary of AF/BB only. All the cases of baby mamas were omega fucks/beta bucks that I know of. Many women do not display a dualistic mating strategy at all. Heck there are millions of women who even have one partner their entire lives.… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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DeNihilist

May 9th, 2015 at 1:55 am

So MYG, Tony reads Heartiste and steals his ideas to make millions. Someone should let Heartiste know.
____________________________

No. Both Tony and Heartiste, and RSD, and, and, and… get a lot of their stuff from Deida.

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