Strength of Interest

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I had a couple of questions from the SoSuave Forum‘s (yes, I’m still a mod there) Judge Nismo I thought I’d take a crack at:

G’ morning Rollo. I got a couple questions for you that I don’t think you touched on in your book…or I may have overlooked.

1. What is your opinion on the Celebrity Maxim?

That is, I know you see it a lot in your Rational Male comments and on this board (i.e. Would she flake out on Brad Pitt? Would she make George Clooney wait for sex? She wouldn’t confuse Channing Tatum, etc.) I’ve even used it a lot on here, usually saying you wouldn’t fall asleep if you had a date with Katy Perry, and you wouldn’t pull a last minute flake text with Kate Upton, and you wouldn’t have to babysit if you had Shakira ready to bang!

If there’s three things I’ve learned from writing in the Manosphere for the past 12 years it’s this; no matter how apt, never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic and never hold up famous celebrities as common reference examples of broader, mundane dynamics.

The temptation to do so stems from a want for a common point of reference. However, appealing to a highly recognizable exemplar of a dynamic only makes picking apart the known particulars about that individual a priority – not on really grasping the dynamic itself.

I see this in the ‘sphere occasionally, and I’d be lying if I said I’d never committed these sins myself. For the most part, and certainly as far as my own readership goes, I think many of the best writers and the commentariat of the ‘sphere are very intelligent men. That’s not to account for the occasional troll, but I’ve found that even an OCD troll still needs to be clever in the ‘sphere.

That said, it’s just this preponderance of intelligence that makes men take illustrative examples as face value facts. Using celebrities as examples of commonality in purpose just smacks of the Apex Fallacy.

“….the Apex fallacy is the idea that we assign the characteristics of the highest visibility members of a group to all members of that group.”

If you’re at all familiar with the controversy surrounding the Apex Fallacy, feminists and manginas alike decided to commandeer wikipedia to paste this as a Men’s Rights misappropriation of the definition, but in actuality the true definition cuts both ways. So while women misappropriate the highest visibility men to associate a totality of the “patriarchy”, men, on the other hand, misappropriate the highest echelon men with examples of common inference of a dynamic.

In English, those celebs aren’t you or me or any layperson you deal with daily. I get the inference of course, and the message is usually one about incentives being strong enough to prompt behaviors. However, what Nismo is getting at is really less about the validity of those illustrations and more about genuine desire:

I ask since it’s quite a big trope in the manosphere…

2. What is your take on the one strike rule?

You do have a 3 strikes article on Rational Male, and I did read it. On this board, it’s quite common to see situations with chicks go like this:

– She flaked on me, she is deleted.
– She stopped responding to my texts and calls, automatic out.
– She wants to bring some friends along, sorry this is one on one.

I could go on and on, most of these situations often get read by red pill men as low interest, thus move on or become a beta orbiter. Yes, I do online dating and work 2 jobs, but I do have a one strike policy.

Sure, sometimes life will truly get in the way, but most men who are red pill will likely move on if there’s low interest. We all know not to waste time with uninterested chicks because they won’t put out. Heck, the sick excuse is often times a blow off, and lately, death in the family has been disguised as blowing someone off.

Zero Tolerance

The problem most men have with a Zero Tolerance policy is that you’re not George Clooney and you’re not Brad Pitt, but moreover, most men still cling to Blue Pill idealisms and the conditioned hope that women will see the “real” men they think women have a magical sensitivity to detect. Thus, they play by the script and hold out for the real desire they believe women should have a capacity for with them.

This is why Blue Pill men get angry at the 3-Strikes rule; that scarcity mentality colors their interaction with women to the point that anything counter to playing the patient, devoted, “prove-my-quality” white knightery role invalidates everything they’ve sacrificed and waited so patiently for up to that point.

They’re afraid of throwing the baby out with the bath water, and damn it, if you suggest doing anything other than what makes their patience worthwhile you’re a misogynistic prick.

If these men could pause with any insight they’d understand that any threshold – one strike, three strikes – suggested by myself or the manosphere isn’t about punishing a woman’s indecisiveness, but rather a pragmatic vetting meant to be efficient for men. That tolerance policy is about conservation of resources and time, not so much retribution (though I’me sure some men entertain that).

  • She flakes on you with no counter offer or marginal reframe? –
    Message: Insufficient interest
  • Stops responding to communications (and possibly resumes after a period)? – The Medium is the Message
  • Wants to bring friends along to a date? –
    Message: you are a rich resource to be exploited, or her interest is so low that she foresees a need to bring friends along to make her date with you entertaining.

The Prince with Interest

What Nismo is comparing here is really an evaluation of interest a woman has in you. I’ve gone into this in the past:

Women with high interest level (IL) wont confuse you. When a woman wants to fuck you she’ll find a way to fuck you. If she’s fluctuating between being into you and then not, put her away for a while and spin other plates. If she sorts it out for herself and pursues you, then you are still playing in your frame and you maintain the value of your attention to her. It’s when you patiently while away your time wondering what the magic formula is that’ll bring her around, that’s when you lean over into her frame. You need her more than she needs you and she will dictate the terms of her attentions.

From an evolutionary perspective Hypergamy can’t afford to wait once a woman’s filtering mechanism is satisfied that a man passes for an Alpha. Women will break rules for Alpha men and create more rules for Beta men to have access to her. Keep in mind that first part; women will make access easy for a man she perceives as an SMV superior. Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit.

So to use the apex example, no, a woman can’t afford to confuse Channing Tatum. Mix in the behavioral influences a woman’s ovulatory chemistry predisposes her to with that SMV+ benefit perception and you’ve got dilated pupils, seductive ornamentation, lower vocal intonations and an elevated heart rate – Estrus.

As you might guess, this poses a problem for most guys because, lets face it, most of us aren’t examples of this apex. Even when we make dramatic leaps in self-improvement and physical transformation it’s hard to shake our former self-impressions and our previous degrees of self-confidence.

Back in the early days of SoSuave there was a concept we’d use that I think had a lot of merit – the concept of the Prince. For many men just coming into a Red Pill awareness meant re-imagining oneself in a new, more intrinsically valued light.

For instance, after you understand the basic psychology of why a technique like Cocky & Funny or Amused Mastery works with women, personally applying those dynamics requires a man to view himself in a more valuable context.

As I said, Hypergamy always seeks a better-than deserved SMV benefit, so it follows that a man should at least reconsider himself as that “better-than her SMV” prospect. Irrespective of that being a reality or not, the idea is a sound one. In fact it’s a law of power:

Law 25 – Re-Create Yourself

Do not accept the roles that society foists on you.  Re-create yourself by forging a new identity, one that commands attention and never bores the audience.  Be the master of your own image rather than letting others define if for you. Incorporate dramatic devices into your public gestures and actions – your power will be enhanced and your character will seem larger than life.

And also:

Law 34 – Be Royal in your Own Fashion:  Act like a King to be treated like one

The way you carry yourself will often determine how you are treated; In the long run, appearing vulgar or common will make people disrespect you.  For a king respects himself and inspires the same sentiment in others.  By acting regally and confident of your powers, you make yourself seem destined to wear a crown.

In Amused Mastery, it helps to actually have some context of mastery to source as amusement.

Needless to say, asking a former Blue Pill Beta to simultaneously digest a new Red Pill awareness and revalue his self-worth is a pretty tall order. As I mention in Rejection & Revenge as a man, your existence will be defined by how you deal with rejection, so for a majority of men who’ve been hammered flat for the better part of a lifetime by women’s rejection telling him to adopt the mindset of a Prince is alien to him.

Furthermore, much of his feminine-conditioned self-perception has always taught him to be self-conscious and respectful of women’s default authority. It’s part of men’s previous Beta Game to want to identify with the feminine in order to prove how alike a man is with a woman. This conditioning is really a plan to force compliance to women’s sexual strategy from men, but it’s sold on the belief that being more feminine-like, feminine-sensitive, will set a Beta man apart from other brutish men who aren’t.

When you consider his previous degree of ego-investment in his conditioning, you can get a real appreciation of the unlearning a Red Pill man must do. It’s very difficult for most guys to consider themselves a Prince when they’ve been taught reverent deference to women all their lives.

Qualities of The Prince(ss)

A Prince’s time is valuable. His efforts and attention are gifts he bestows on the woman he’s interested in, and as such that woman’s esteem should be validated by it. She is envied by other women because of the Prince’s interest in her; it confirms there is something about her that sets her apart from other women. Her role becomes one of both humbling gratitude and excited, almost childlike, anticipations of him.

If that comes off like a pipe dream or a fake-it-till-you-make-it motivational screed, it’s because most men are so inured by a lifetime conditioning designed to hold them in the role of expectant, reverent, and deferring lover if they can perform to a woman’s standards. So ingrained is that subservience that a Princess’ acceptance of a man is exalted to an appreciation of spiritual, metaphysical, significance. God ordained her acceptance of him, the fates conspired or he “just got lucky”.

Beta men, in their Blue Pill expectations of women being rational agents, are often dumbfounded by the woman who compulsively returns over and over again to the Alpha ‘asshole’ who doesn’t respect, appreciate and love her like she deserves – like he would if she’d just come to her senses. We call that guy the emotional tampon, but what he doesn’t get is that the woman he’s orbiting is locked in a cycle that only a man with an SMV above her own can induce.

Even if that valuation is just perceptual, a woman’s Hypergamous optimization efforts will predispose her to wanting to lock that man down. This is the danger of relying on apex examples of a dynamic – women must still operate within their respective frames and within their capacity to accurately evaluate the SMV of the men she can realistically attract.

That semi-abusive Jerk boyfriend she loves so much? He’s not Channing Tatum or Brad Pitt, but contextually he’s the guy with the strength of her interest.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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New Yorker
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Every man needs Game. Game is nothing more than an internalization of your life and priorities as the only barometer through which to see the world. If you have no Game, your life is a fraction of what it could be.

Tom
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@Mad Yale Grad
You have a gross misunderstanding of ADHD. It isn’t mental retardation, it is an inability to focus on any task alternating with hyper-focusing on one task. The illness can be successfully managed without drugs.
You are dismissive of evopsych/redpill theory. You constantly deny the utility of game beyond marginal improvement and advocate “settling for average”. Why are you here? Doesn’t playing devil’s advocate become tedious after a while?

Mad Yale Grad
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“Get out of your own damn head. Feel things. Notice what you’re body is doing. A lot of guys here suffer from overintellectualization. They live almost exclusively in their prefrontal cortex. As a result, they instinctively try to peacock their mind. A lot of bitterness ensues when they realize that intellect alone doesn’t make them sexy. Look, I’ll play with the dread fire of analogy here. You know how you look down upon, laugh at, or despise roided up losers who are always flexing up their perfectly manicured pecs and lats, preening them, and never using them for a lick… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“Watch any Steve-O interview on Stern. He’s a zero. Girls wouldn’t talk to him before he became famous.”

So what? He had the genetic material to become an 8. Just look at him. Plus, don’t be flighty and believe everything the media sells you.

Every famous person has a schtick about their previous incarnation. Its part of the celebrity image. Rags to riches or zero to hero mythology that the dream factory churns out.

Don’t let it fool you.

zdr01dz
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Another example is Artie Lange, comedy writer on the Stern show. The guy is a fat slob and a drug addict. But his SMV is off the charts because he is famous. Before he got fired from the Stern show there was a constant stream of hot girls trying to date this guy. This is a photo of Artie and Dana, his LTR of many years.

http://imgur.com/aGgfgyt

http://imgur.com/pUtWbzp

Mad Yale Grad
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“You have a gross misunderstanding of ADHD. It isn’t mental retardation, it is an inability to focus on any task alternating with hyper-focusing on one task. The illness can be successfully managed without drugs.” I have a bit of it myself, Tom. I’m talking about extreme forms of ADHD, OCD, and other issues that have severely socially handicapped some of the young guys I’ve worked with. Game has not and can not help them. You have to be at a minimum threshold of normalcy for game to work. There is a non-trivial % of young men out there today who… Read more »

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@Mad Yale Grad You will deny any success story or question its credibility. I’ll throw out the fable of Nick Krauser PUA and you tell me your opinion. The manosphere isn’t full of gullible rubes. We understand that moving from a “5” to an “8” is an ordeal, but it isn’t impossible. Graduating med school is difficult. Average acceptance rate is in the teens or lower. Top 10 MBA? Same acceptance rate. Law, entrepreneurship, military, engineering etc..all have high barriers to entry. Benching 300+? Most fail to hit that target. Losing weight? Single digit success rate in some cases. Should… Read more »

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@Softek – I like the fact that you use the ‘incel’ in quotes. There was a discussion in MGTOW HQ forums about how there is no such thing as a real ‘incel’ – a case was presented to a 21 year old virgin there where one of the dudes cousins was 350+ pounds about the same age as him and she was also a virgin. Would the 21yo hook up with her with all the contact details offered. He ended up saying no. My unsolicited advice would be to get an escort for the experience and get it out of… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Rollo, I never claimed game doesn’t work. Because of my looks girls have always shown interested in me so I never needed it but I’ve helped 4s become 6s and 5s become 7s using inner game material with them. It’s never made a 4 an 8 in my own personal experience with it and it hasn’t helped the guys I’ve worked with who are severely socially handicapped by Tourett’s , OCD, etc, is all I’m saying. Shoot me for being honest.

The Lone Planet
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The mind is a beautiful place to live.

zdr01dz
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXqPZsRJ-VA

Benjy Bronk, another writer on the Stern show with his LTR Alisa Jordana.

Tom
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@Mad Yale Grad
I suppose I have to agree with your extreme example. Your profoundly mentally ill friends cannot attract women. A man without legs cannot squat or run. A man without arms and legs cannot climb a mountain. A blind woman can’t be a chef.

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@The Lone Planet

Your mind came up with that, so forgive me for suspecting bias.

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@The Red Baron, MGTOWs claim 50% of American women under the age of 50 have an STD. ” I like the fact that you use the ‘incel’ in quotes. There was a discussion in MGTOW HQ forums about how there is no such thing as a real ‘incel’ – a case was presented to a 21 year old virgin there where one of the dudes cousins was 350+ pounds about the same age as him and she was also a virgin. Would the 21yo hook up with her with all the contact details offered. He ended up saying no. My… Read more »

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@Tom

Please do not feed the trolls.

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@Rollo

In other news: cars without wheels don’t go anywhere no matter how much power you give them. Guitars without strings don’t make good music no matter how well crafted they are. Finally, trolls don’t contribute anything useful to conversations.

Tom
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@Mad Yale Grad
Christine Ha. Blind Chef. Even though I hate sweetbreads, I still respect her talent..

Mad Yale Grad
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Tom, yes. But what I’m surprised by is how common these more extreme forms of disorders, or issues if that’s a more pc word , seem to be. Either there’s been an increase or I’m just becoming more aware of what’s been around all along.

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@Mad Yale Grad
Oscar Pistorius

Tom
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I’ll stop now. Troll game recognized MYG wink

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@ Red Baron I disagree about there being no such thing as ‘incel,’ although I still can’t help but put the word in quotation marks most of the time for some reason. Two out of the three girls I’ve hooked up with have been over 300 pounds. Was I attracted to them? No. But I did it anyway. And I would hook up with unattractive girls if I knew there weren’t going to be any issues, e.g. STD’s, me having to deal with avoiding them if they pressed for a relationship — — I’ve avoided girls my whole life out… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Sun Wukong, I will be joining your online chat this Sunday.

Sun Wukong
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I gotta say that paraplegics competing in Olympic running is definitely one of those things in my lifetime that I would consider a miraculous triumph of human determination and technology. Every dude I see doing that gets mad Man points. He ain’t first, but he’s competitive at an Olympic level. Would take me a lotta work to get there.

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“I had multiple shots with very attractive girls, but my anxiety ruined it. I was afraid. Of what? STD’s, getting a girl pregnant, having to deal with her emotions/trying to contact me, etc.” Softek, one of the 30 year old virgins I work with has germs phobia, along with ADD, used to have Tourretts but got over it, is addicted to video games and is on meds for depression and who knows what else, which have caused him to gain weight. He thinks sex is “gross” and is constantly saying why he will never get a gf, get married or… Read more »

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@MYG

No you’re not. It’s a male space.

@All

Speaking of that, since Glenn and Rocket are both gonna be out and want to be there, I’m gonna move to next Sunday the 17th. I was thinking I would schedule things for 16:00 Central so that we could be done in time for folks on the East coast to do dinner.

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>@MYG: “OK! But only if you don’t be the guy who fills a sorry bastard’s head with fantasies that he’s going to become Super Man and consistently bed down a rotation of multiple Wonder Womans from now til he croaks.” A male-2 is not going to superman status or probably even male-9 status no matter what he does and he is not bedding wonder wominz ever unless he pays for it. Who said that? What we say is that MOST 2- men could improve to 7 or 8 status in less than a year. Hell, most 2’s could improve to… Read more »

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This respectable, SMV7 explains why she is hopelessly attracted to an obese, pasty, bald guy. Benjy might have the strongest Alpha game around. So much red pill truth packed into one short clip.

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The best inner and outer game is getting offline and into the woods. Indoor sedentary lifestyle is the absolute worst for physical genetics and mental health.

“I’m gonna move to next Sunday the 17th. I was thinking I would schedule things for 16:00 Central so that we could be done in time for folks on the East coast to do dinner.”

I’ll be there.

Sun Wukong
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She thinks I was kidding.

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@tom “The real tragedy of a man’s life in America is that he is struggling so hard for minimal return. ” Yeah that’s hard for me everyday. It’s as if I started in a pack of wolves and we are each being killed off really slowly. @glenn http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N2NTADxDuhA http://www.nicabm.com/nicabmblog/how-trauma-traps-survivors-in-the-past/ Women NEVER want full discloser http://www.efttappingtraining.com/compulsion-to-repeat-trauma-eft-re-enactment-case-study/ This one is a real good one from a males perspective of feeling disposable http://www.khironhouse.com/blog/researching-trauma-changing-paradigms/ @theredbarron You know the weird thing is that the U.S. Produces the most amount of sexual material in the world manwin owns almost all 8 out the ten porn tubes… Read more »

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On the topic of becoming a prince: One exercise I like to use is imagining the worst case scenario regarding something you want to do, but are afraid of doing. I think it’d be good for guys to ask themselves: “What’s the worst thing that’ll happen if I think of myself as a prince?” Your own mind will produce the answers it holds: the inner belief system. For me, for example, the first thing that came to mind was: “I’ll have to deal with conflict.” Then I think of people being angry. And memories pop up of times that people… Read more »

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@softek I read your repsonse about fatties – it just proved the point about thirst in the US (I think it was an RoK article I had read a few years ago when my friend intimated me about the manosphere). It is really hard for me as a foreigner to comprehend this. Again I am sincerely sorry for badmouthing North America – I love your founding fathers, Constitution etc. All my Yank friends think similarly – few even said they would have gay sex in prison than NO SEX ever again if they got a life sentence. But again I… Read more »

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@Glenn They need to build up some confidence and experience and also just get off the schneid if they are incels. You know the funny thing? What you’re directly addressing is the reason people say “There’s no such thing as an incel even among guys” which is largely true. I can believe (due to hypergamy) that there’s guys who are unattractive enough that there’s no way they’ll ever get laid, but the vast majority of incel guys aren’t that unattractive. Most of them I’ve met could just lower their standards a bit and at least pop that cherry. I realize… Read more »

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I am pert certain the average dude, of average size, motivation etc can bench 315. The problem is not,generally, lack of anything but knowledge. If dudes would listen to Dave Tate, Louie Simmions, Ed Connan etc and bench press like a strength athlete they would get there. Really, a 315 bench press is a low bar of achievement in the scheme of things. most guys can add 10-20% on their bench in a few weeks by learning how to bench. I say that as a guy who had to work 15 years to go from 335 to 420 Politics is… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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Talk is cheap, brass knuckles cheaper and more effective

Personally I prefer sap gloves, but to each his own.

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@SFC Ton
First trainer was a USA bob slider for the USA Olympic team each one of his muscles was at peak.
I got more buff with him than on my own…
http://www.rugbyworld.com/takingpart/fitness-takingpart
By the way bobsledding is so underrated those guys pull so much weight and move so freaking fast. I recommended a few viewings if you have never seen a full team perform before.

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@zdr01dz Christ. That’s why you don’t openly talk about your open relationships (one-sided or otherwise) and harems and anti-marriage views etc. with the general public. Both men (even red pill dudes like Stern) and women are DYING to tear that shit apart. The girl can be PERFECTLY HAPPY in the relationship day to day, until you go public and she starts getting social pressure from everyone that the arrangement is suddenly bad for her and they all turn her into a victim and say shit like “why do you want her to LEARN things instead of watch TV??? You monster!”… Read more »

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LOL Sun

No doubt Rugby they are underrated, but I think most athletes at that level are. Sprinters, light/ mid weight lifters and throwers are amazing all around athletes and every world class strength coach I have read say wrestling requires the best athletes (a couple say defensive ends are a close second) but I have always been impressed with the quality of athlete bob sledders are

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@ YaReally

You are right, Stern and crew were super hard on Benjy. But don’t worry about him. He’s weird, fat and unattractive but he is the ultimate alpha and nothing slows him down for long. He eventually left Sarah, the blond girl in the clip. He started dating an even hotter brunette pictured below. They recently broke up. Benjy will get another hotty, he always does.

http://imgur.com/ltipZBi

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@ YaReally My friend’s gotten tons of social pressure about having two girlfriends. They both keep coming back to him even though they know about each other, even with all the drama. I’ve told him more than once that the reason they both keep coming back is probably because he’s with both of them, and has other girls on the side too. He denied this. He’s acting mostly Alpha without realizing it, because he still believes in Blue Pill ideals, and feels a lot of guilt about being with both of these girls. Like a suicidal amount of guilt. I… Read more »

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The evolution of this thread deserves it’s own thread. Only one (Ya) besides Rollo seems to even understand any human social dynamics while we discuss pablum like lifting weights and fame which are situational Alpha traits. One more time: Your physique/fame/money/blah/blah are POSSIBLE fitness indicators that give plausible deniability to a woman (and proof of her status) looking to consolidate, settle for those traits and remain socially intact. They ACTUALLY mark you as meat, both for her and the player banging her. Benching a gazillion pounds means insecure. Ferrari (in 2014) means insecure. Paying for “bottles” means insecure. I’m thinking… Read more »

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@ Tilikum
Your physique/fame/money/blah/blah are POSSIBLE fitness indicators

Those aren’t possible fitness indicators. Those ARE fitness. I’ve never met a woman who wasn’t turned on by all 3.

Any man that earns $100,000 per year, has a respectable physique and good personality can lock down an HB8 – HB10. That’s the blueprint. It’s that simple.

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LOL what a fool.

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@Softek “The words they’re saying are tearing him down because he’s taking them seriously as what their message is.” You got it. His problem is two-fold: 1) He feels guilty about this situation because he’s still under social conditioning that tells him what he’s doing is wrong/abusive/etc. 2) He’s not smart enough to be discreet from day one, so now he has a shitload of drama to deal with If he 1) accepted that his desire for sexual variety is completely normal and healthy and society’s idea that a man should only get a boner for one chick his entire… Read more »

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@ YaReally

A guy who’s tall/rich/famous/etc. is just wearing a slutty outfit to a girl. She sees that and goes “I can assume that he’s probably got alpha qualities to him because he has those external attributes”.

I have to strongly disagree with that. Those are the traits that women look for in a mate based on millions of years of evolution. That is a strong indication that those traits are objectively superior.

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@MYG My point being is that women start at “average” to “above average” (5, 6) in their mind (and pretty much all the minds of women). While men can start off lower and then reach up to these 5s and 6s (what a joke) with improvement. No improvement required for women….they just need to be accepted for who they are by men (another joke). It’s not only black men who are inflating the value of these fat women. Thirsty men of all types are screwing up the market. They’re so desperate for female attention (plus it’s getting harder to find… Read more »

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@Mad Yale Grad

– Because “You Go Girl” was all over that! ?????? Sure, man.

OH, you misread that to be directed at you? So you DO identify as female, glad we cleared that up. Go re-read my original comment to see how you just outed yourself as a hairy vagina.

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@zdr01dz “I have to strongly disagree with that. Those are the traits that women look for in a mate based on millions of years of evolution. That is a strong indication that those traits are objectively superior.” They look for those traits because those traits are external indicators that the guy probably has attractive alpha qualities, not because those traits are, themselves, inherently attractive. All pickup does is show guys how to purposely demonstrate having those attractive alpha qualities that tall/rich/famous also indicate a guy probably has. Any poor fat short guy with a hot girl, and any tall rich… Read more »

Tilikum
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@zdr01dz

Dude. It ISN’T fitness. It’s what your hamster is rationalizing as fitness and your way forward. Really listen to what Ya said, read Rollo. Stop thinking beta.

Easiest guy in the world to poach from was an SO1 buddy of mine in SD. He would go in with all that gay ass Navy SEAL ra ra and benchpress bullshit and literally DONATE the pussy. Bitches love the fringe outlier that proves the rule, and tools out the hero homie….dark triad.. Loki NOT Thor (cannot BELIEVE I feel like I have to resort to fucking movie references).

longgone
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zdro1dz,
Re: MYG
Don’t feed it. Catch up. Thanks.

longgone
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longgone
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Driver,Jeremy
Re:MYG:
Payday for it. Scroll this troll. Thanks.

Tilikum
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@Ya I’ll go one step further and say that what you describe here (although admittedly 6’2″ and 250) is true and even means more that surface fakery: “once I get IN there, I can do the equivalent of that bookworm girl running upstairs and putting on a slutty dress. I suddenly become attractive to them.” …..Depth. I hear it constantly. Emotional and intellectual depth (and zero fear) is so rare, ESPECIALLY to the 19-24 YO crowd. (True, I roll around a party school..ASU). Millions of guys making money, getting tattooed, and playing asshole buddy in the gym an hour a… Read more »

zdr01dz
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@YaReally
They look for those traits because those traits are external indicators that the guy probably has attractive alpha qualities, not because those traits are, themselves, inherently attractive.

Once again I have to respectfully disagree. Being fit is objectively better than being fat. Being strong is objectively better than being weak. Same goes for rich, famous, etc. etc. Those traits are the actual “products” that women are buying. When a man has those traits it objectively improves the lives of his family.

In my mind PUA is the sales pitch, but those traits are the actual product.

comment image

zdr01dz
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^^^
BTW I don’t mean to dismiss game. I work in sales and presentation is everything.

zdr01dz
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@ Tilikum Dude. It ISN’T fitness. It’s what your hamster is rationalizing as fitness and your way forward. Really listen to what Ya said, read Rollo. Stop thinking beta. I disagree. Strength, wealth, fame. etc. etc. IS fitness. Those things make life better. Game isn’t fitness. Game is the sales pitch. A man needs both. http://ethanacall.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/2/5/26255448/8769219_orig.jpg This guy has amazing game and probably a lot of success under his belt. But he’s still selling a rag that I don’t want. If he was selling a Mercedes but had just 10% of the game I might talk to him. Loading...

Tilikum
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@zdr01dz Sales eh. Think about Tony Robbins, a genius. Is he still Tony Robbins without the fame, size, and money? He would tell you yes. His ability defines him, not the outward manifestations of such. His ability is infinitely reproducible, as are the fitness indicators. Women sniff out capacity and authenticity, not the easily faked indicators. You should read Goldmund and Narcissus by Hesse. Power and capacity come at the intersection of both characters (or yin and yang) not the binary choice of picking the “best” option. I wish Rollo would get in here. You are close, but it takes… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“His ability defines him, not the outward manifestations of such. His ability is infinitely reproducible, as are the fitness indicators. Women sniff out capacity and authenticity, not the easily faked indicators. ”

Sage certainly sniffed him out. So did his ex wife. And what about that whole ONENESS blessing scam he ran with those two fake spiritual gurus from India? Or did he run that scam on them?

YaReally
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Rollo you have the patience of a saint lol

Tilikum
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@ Mad Yale Grad

Jelly is sweet, but full of empty calories..

Mad Yale Grad
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“No improvement required for women….they just need to be accepted for who they are by men (another joke). ” But they are not accepted by the top notch or even lesser but still good quality men. How often do you see a sloppy fat 3 chick walking around with a tall, good looking 8 holding her hand? At the very most she’ll get a tall, obese 4 “It’s not only black men who are inflating the value of these fat women.” Mostly. But even then you won’t catch an 8 brother with a 3 gf. You’ll catch an 8 brother… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Mad Yale Grad
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“Any man that earns $100,000 per year, has a respectable physique and good personality can lock down an HB8 – HB10. That’s the blueprint. It’s that simple.”

My life. The grass is always greener though. Some 8-9s are good peeps. Many are stuck up spoiled narcissists. The more makeup, the more glam, the more spam.

And no chick is a 10. Do not pedestalize. Do not.

Mad Yale Grad
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‘I’m thinking some of you all have never seen an apex”

I might have and didn’t know it. What would you describe as apex?

zdr01dz
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@ Tilikum
Tony Robbins is a charismatic genius and I love his videos on YouTube. He possesses amazing, over the top sales skills and game.

But if you took away his money, fame and physical strength what use would he be to his wife?

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@Solftek “while all his other friends told him he was a horrible person and should be ashamed of himself, that he was a disgusting human being, etc.” Sounds to damn familiar. What may help is going away for awhile and not back to the same environment… @Tilikum “I’m thinking some of you all have never seen an apex,” I have read Rollo but No show me… Here’s what comes close to Apex that I have “seen” Theirs a fucking movie reference for you. “…..Depth. I hear it constantly. Emotional and intellectual depth (and zero fear) is so rare, ” It… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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YaReally, both Monique and Jada Smith went public about their oLTRs/marriages. Its really no big deal anymore. 25 years from now they will be as mainstream as “nuclear family” was in ’59.

Meh. Shrugs.

Mad Yale Grad
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zdroidz, did you receive the oneness blessing/deeksha? “Tony Robbins is a charismatic genius and I love his videos on YouTube. He possesses amazing, over the top sales skills and game. But if you took away his money, fame and physical strength what use would he be to his wife?” Which one? Becky married him when he was flat broke and helped him build his empire. Sage cheated on her own hubby to steal him away from Becky when he was at the top of his apex game. When asked about this in interviews he said he likes to live life… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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Softek, “My friend’s gotten tons of social pressure about having two girlfriends. They both keep coming back to him even though they know about each other, even with all the drama. I’ve told him more than once that the reason they both keep coming back is probably because he’s with both of them, and has other girls on the side too. He denied this. He’s acting mostly Alpha without realizing it, because he still believes in Blue Pill ideals, and feels a lot of guilt about being with both of these girls. Like a suicidal amount of guilt. ” –… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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So for all the guys y’ll show as being 3s and 4s are all facially above average. Benjy? He may be chubby (but he’s not THAT fat, come on) and he may be pink (Scottish genes) but he’s got a very symmetrical youthful baby face with good and proportioned features.

The fake celeb posted by Rollo as a “4” and Steve O as a “3” and this Benjy guy as being totally disgusting are all bad examples because all 3 have good genetic material and all have faces that are above average for American men.

Sun Wukong
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@zdr01dz Any man that earns $100,000 per year, has a respectable physique and good personality can lock down an HB8 – HB10. That’s the blueprint. It’s that simple. I have to disagree with this for a pretty simple reason: that quite literally describes me. Like I’m not joking. I currently make just over 100k/yr, I’m in good enough shape that guys 3-4″ than me are actually threatened by my martial arts straining and strength (and I’m nowhere near what I think I’m capable of… yet), and I’m a really fun guy to talk to. I’m still not rolling in the… Read more »

stuttie
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@ ya – MYG has been trolling in the last few Rollo posts but he/she has been sussed out. Nothing and nobody gets through. So don’t quit posting your insightful thoughts here – I for one want to read them. @ zdr01dz – If you want to use a sales analogy, yes presentation is important, but only to the extent of first impressions. Sales (like PUA) is a process/methodology. We have ‘cold calling’ (approaching), first impression in a meeting (presentation), the pitch (hook point), building trust (building comfort), making the buying logistics easy (seduction) procrastinating about making the purchase/commitment (LMR)… Read more »

zdr01dz
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http://imgur.com/LRP4A8d
In this photo the man would be the “Shake Weight” and the unforgettable presentation would be his game / PUA skills.

But no matter how good this ad is it’s still just a Shake Weight. By comparison a fat, broke loser is still a fat, broke loser no matter how good his game is.

Sun Wukong
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“…guys 3-4″ taller than me are actually threatened by my martial arts training…” rather. Wish my fingers would type what my brain is thinking.

Mad Yale Grad
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zdoidz, “Schwarzenegger’s ugly mistress wasn’t the exception. ” Was she cute at the time of the affair? “Edelman just won the Superbowl and for that night he was one of the top 100 most desirable men on planet earth. Here is a photo of the chick he picked up. She’s ok, but definitely not in the top 100 women on planet earth. She looks like a younger version of any of the mom’s that live on my street. Nothing special.” That girl is cute, but like you say nothing out of the ordinary aside the fact she’s not fat. Do… Read more »

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@Sun Wukong I have to disagree with this for a pretty simple reason: that quite literally describes me. You’re right maybe I could have said that better. Any man that earns $100,000 per year, has a respectable physique and good personality has a reasonable chance to lock down an HB8 – HB10. Most won’t because quite simply there aren’t enough hot chicks to go around. But at that level you’ve got all the muscle you need to win. After that success depends on game and luck. Where I live the moms who live in $1,000,000 homes don’t look much different… Read more »

Mad Yale Grad
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“I have to disagree with this for a pretty simple reason: that quite literally describes me. Like I’m not joking. I currently make just over 100k/yr, I’m in good enough shape that guys 3-4″ than me are actually threatened by my martial arts straining and strength (and I’m nowhere near what I think I’m capable of… yet), and I’m a really fun guy to talk to. I’m still not rolling in the pussy with all that going for me. A guy’s gotta have Game unless he’s just insanely amazing in all of those departments.” …. Uh, what’s your face game… Read more »

Sun Wukong
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@zdr01dz Honestly the modern SMV inflation on women rears its ugly head a lot. In the past (i.e. around the time I was born) those 3 were enough, and in fact that’s pretty much how my father got my mother. She was a solid 8 in her college days, and I look like the spitting image of my dad. He’s never been overweight for a day of his life, ran marathons in to his 40s. I’ve not remained in that good a shape but I’m much stronger in the upper body than he ever was. Plus he was a medical… Read more »

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@ stuttie
If you want to use a sales analogy, yes presentation is important, but only to the extent of first impressions.

The only thing I’d add is that game is also useful after the sale because it keeps the woman entertained. Lets just say I’m not the most attractive guy in the world. But I’ve got awesome game. No doubt game has helped me smooth over the rough spots in my relationship. Game makes things fun for the chick.

Mad Yale Grad
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Rollo Twitter,

“1 in 3 on Tinder are married with women being the most frequent cheaters: ”

Did you expect otherwise?

American kids raised in a nuclear family home have various advantages over kids raised in single parent homes.

zdr01dz
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@ Sun Wukong I’m doing all the work I can to improve, but those characteristics are just the bare fucking minimum these days in the US. I was off the market back in 1990 so no doubt times have changed. I’m 45 and honestly if I was single again I might go MGTOW. I’m not going to wear a condom and I’m not going to work for it. Maybe 1 in 1,000 40 year old women is attractive enough to make my head turn. I’d probably start hanging out with my buddies and get good at video games, hehe. Loading...

Mad Yale Grad
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” Only thing that cost him my mom was beating the shit out of her and me at the same time.”

Lovely.

;(

My heart goes out to ya man. We’ll discuss on Sunday the work I’ve done in situations like that and I’ll connect with Blaximus about FAS . We need to evolve as a species.

Mad Yale Grad
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“I’m 45 and honestly if I was single again I might go MGTOW. I’m not going to wear a condom and I’m not going to work for it. Maybe 1 in 1,000 40 year old women is attractive enough to make my head turn.”

And about half of those 40 year old women have STDs so if you’re not going to wear a condom, better leave ’em alone.

stuttie
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@ zdroids – I agree. In fact, Game is more critical in a LTR or marriage. I agree with Sun on the $100k thing… Problem is two fold… 1. $100K is ‘average’ these days (where I live anyway). You’d need to be on $250k+ to get the gold diggers wet. 2. And even if you were on $250k, once you telegraph that info to a women you are immediately put in the beta bucks zone. She will see you as a provider more, a hot fuck less. As I mentioned before, I fucked the hottest chicks when I was a… Read more »

zdr01dz
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http://imgur.com/yC7M2Rq
If I was single again and I couldn’t lock down a woman this attractive or close to it I’d go MGTOW. I’m not going to perform for anything less. Translation: If someday I became single that’s the way I would probably stay.

zdr01dz
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^^^
Tony Robbins is a zillionaire and his wife is incredibly hot. But there are firemen in my city with wives this hot. After a certain point money doesn’t change the equation much.

Sun Wukong
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@stuttie

I never EVER will disclose to women what I do for a living before I’ve banged her a few times.

Agree so much with this. I tell a woman I’m a well paid software engineer, she’s instantly gonna toss me in the BB box. I just feed women bullshit these days.

“I’m a puppy phrenologist.”
“I’m a vaginal inspector.”
“I’m an international man of mystery.”
“I’m no one of consequence, you just need to know I fuck like a wild animal.”

Anything but the truth. Bitches don’t need the truth. They need my dick.

Sun Wukong
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Oh and $100k is over twice the median income even for married guys in Dallas.

Badpainter
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“I’m a puppy phrenologist.”

Lol. That goes on my list.

stuttie
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@ sun – Here in Sydney $100k (total package) is about, or just above the average for a guy). I’ve heard that $80k is the true average. But then our house prices are ridiculous ($800k for just a 3 bedder in an ok area). I’m on a $100k and I struggle week to week. The child support kills me, but that’s another story. re never letting on what you do for a living, I try to make them guess (knowing I’ll never tell them). It gets some playful interaction going & gets their little imagination hamsters spinning (is he a… Read more »

A Definite Beta Guy
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One Loki, a gazillion Thors. (fuck I did it again).

Oh, just relevant here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl30aEahlIU

Anything but the truth. Bitches don’t need the truth. They need my dick.

Agreed. ‘m Bob from Accounting, almost literally. Who wants to hear about that?

Lone Survivor
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“never use an allegory to illustrate a point, never try to relate a fictional story, movie or character to a real world dynamic”.

Ahem…

http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/02/the-art-of-amog/

I am being redundant when I say PUA is bullshit.

Why? One of the many reasons is because it does not cut through the noise. For a PUA every woman is a target and, instead of letting women make you know they are available, and let got things so that they happen effortless, they constantly tell guys that “your have to do game, go for the cold approach, improve your game…”

Liz
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““I’m a puppy phrenologist.”
Lol. That goes on my list.”

I always thought member of the Blue Man Group was funny (or dolphin trainer).

Liz
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I’m still disturbed by the look of Arnold’s mistress. Maybe it was an adrenaline rush thing? Maybe they’d do it in the bedroom while Maria was in the shower.

“Come heya. Get awn all faws, she’s in the showa….”

? That’s all I’ve got…

Liz
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Finishing up the first thought above…another funny one might be
“I study alchemy”
(or perhaps “I’m an Alchemist”)

Liz
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That alchemy on is pure gold.
(nyuck, nyuck, okay, sorry)

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